Animation Revelation Forum

Because DC is rocking the TV where Marvel is flailing about, and judging from the success of The Flash's premiere it looks like this new universe has only one way to go but up, I stole Dr. Ensatsu-ken's idea of making a thread for it. Being that there is a thriving universe out there, there is potentially much to discuss and go back over once again.

Long story short, The CW, a channel otherwise disposable, has lead a charge in live action programing centered around the DC universe like Marvel has in the movies. Where Marvel has been flopping in TV land, DC has been thriving. So this is a thread to discuss them all.


Arrow

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Arrow is the story of Oliver Queen, a shipwrecked playboy millionaire, who returns home five years stranded as a broken man. He learned in his exile that his father was involved in shady dealings that destroyed the lives of many and vows to correct his father's wrongs. He becomes the vigilante of Starling City, hunting criminals on a list his father gave him as a way to atone for his wrongdoings. Unfortunately, fighting the evil that rules his city is not as easy as he thought, not to mention his hard exterior begins to crack as he begins reconnecting with those he left behind, and some new faces as well.

Arrow has been running since 2012 and is currently entering its third season not showing any signs of slowing down. It's well regarded for its twisting storylines and up close action and for being an adaption that does its own thing while still being respectful to the source material.


The Flash

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The Flash starts as Barry Allen, as a child, witnesses his mother's murder from something faster than the eye can ascertain. He grows up with an interest in forensics, trying to find out how exactly something so strange could happen which gives him an eye for the out of the ordinary. After an experimental particle accelerator malfunctions and causes a vicious storm, the world as he knows it changes entirely. He now has superspeed, and a way of fighting the evil that has bothered him for so long. But that storm did more than give birth to The Flash . . .

The Flash started in 2014 and is currently the highest rated premiere in CW history. If it can keep up the early promise it shows and it continues on at this pace, who knows what can be next for the DC universe?

Well, now we know what's next!


DC's Legends of Tomorrow

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Starting in 2016 is the next show in the Arrowverse, Legends of Tomorrow. Billed as a show about time travel, redemption, and explosive action, it bears a much different tone from either Arrow or The Flash.

Rip Hunter travels back in time to form a team that could well save the future from an ever-encroaching shadow. Featuring characters from both Arrow and Flash as well as new heroes and villains, Legends of Tomorrow will start in 2016 as the next chapter in the story. Whatever happens next, well, who knows? But DC sure have their hands full.


Supergirl

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From the same team that brought you the aforementioned shows and taking place in the same universe, is Supergirl. Airing on CBS instead of The CW, Supergirl stars the titular character from DC comics as she begins to carve out her place as a superhero in a world growing in acceptance of them.

It starts in Fall 2015 on the CBS Monday line up which is incidentally the first line up in the entire history in the network to not feature comedy on the block. CBS has a lot of faith in this show and team, so here's hoping they manage to pull it off!

So share your thoughts on DC's television invasion here.

It's funny how Marvel is absolutely killing DC when it comes to cinema, but on the flip side, DC is handing them their ass back to them on cable television (and that includes animated shows, as well).

Anyways, season 1 of Arrow was solid, with the potential for greatness, but not quite there. Season 2 was a big step up in quality, but still bit quite at the level of greatness. I'm hoping that season 3 finally brings it to the level of quality of something like Buffy or Angel, which I know that this show is capable of.

As for The Flash, it's way too early to judge it, but based on the premiere, I can expect equally great things from this series. The potential is definitely there. I don't anticipate that it'll overtake Arrow for me as my preferred superhero show, though, but who knows what will happen later on down the line?

Anyways, I will of course be following both shows all season long, and in the case of Arrow, for many more seasons to come.

I think Arrow starts finding its footing around the time Diggle learns his secret. He becomes his moral compass and the two really have good chemistry with each other. After that it just gets better and better until the finale which is pretty great in paying off everything it built up.

It essentially did what Agents of Shield did not, and that is why I watch one and not the other.

Just watched the season premiere of Arrow online. It was a really good start, as expected, and wow, it's already high-stakes! I'm particularly interested in the flashback portions of this season. I liked the stuff on the island all well and good, but after 2 seasons there, a change of scenery was definitely necessary, and I really like the Hong Kong setting and the new characters there.

Also, on a side note, I really like Roy'a costume design. One of the better looking superhero costumes that I've seen in live-action adaptations.

I just saw both episodes (I have clubs on the nights that both shows air, so I probably won't get to see them live too much), and wow, they were great!

I think I was especially impressed with The Flash's premiere, which was a killer origin story. Arrow was also great, and I have to admit that I like seeing Oliver and Felicity's flirting being taken a step further here with an actual attempt at a date. I've always felt that they have strong chemistry with each other, so it was cool to see the show attempt to bring them closer romantically.

So, from what I've heard, Suicide Squad is the next planned show in the DCLAU for the CW. I know absolutely nothing about them aside from their JLU episode and their brief appearance on season 2 of Arrow, though I do like the idea of a team-based superhero show with anti-heroes.

Also, in regard to Arrow, do you guys think that Ray Palmer will become the Atom by the end of the season, or will it take longer than that for his character arc to bring him into the superhero mix? Also, I'm wondering just how his suit's abilities will be portrayed on the show if and when they do get to that point.

Meanwhile, I've heard that Wildcat (or at least his alter ego) has been confirmed to be in this season, so I'm wondering if he'll train Laurel to fight so that she can replace her sister as Black Canary. That's the only reason I can see for having his character featured on the show in the first place.

I've become a Wildcat fan since TB&TB, so I sure hope so. Or at least I hope he trains her.

Suicide Squad would have potential as long as it goes beyond its premise. The JLU episode was great, but as you saw from the end of it, it could only go so far before everyone just lets each other get thrown to the wolves.

The 80's Suicide Squad run is supposed to be one of DC's gems, but I haven't got around to reading it yet. If we're getting a show, though, then I'll try to find the trades.

And yeah, I'm interested in Wildcat, as well.

Alright, from what I've heard, apparently in the season premiere, one of those guys in the boxing match that was going on in the background when Roy was trying to disarm the bomb is Wildcat. If that's true, that's a very clever and subtle way to introduce him into the series. I never would've picked up on that, partly because I don't know anything about the character outside of TB&TB, but even if I did know, I still would've missed it.

Wow! That's clever.

One thing I've always liked since day one in these shows is how they introduce characters. They're always memorable.

That was a nice expansion on Barry's powers and how some of the metahumans work, but I do hope they're not planning on killing them all off.

Speaking of killing. The end of that episode. Yikes.

I must say, I really can't stand Iris in this series. She's a total Mary Sue in how oblivious she is to Barry and in general just has a really boring personality. She's even worse than Laurel was before she stopped being such a bitch by the end of season 2 of Arrow.

That said, I like the relationship between her dad and Barry. I also like how they got over that whole issue of whether it's right for Barty to use his powers for good or not, and he is now in full support of Barry as The Flash. They should have an interesting character dynamic as this series progresses.

Oh, and on a side nite, I just thought of this, but do you guys think that we'll ever learn anything about Olliver's son on this show? I only bring it up because it was something that was brought up in a flashback on Arrow, and it really had no purpose in that series, but let us know that the girl that Olliver had gotten pregnant moved away to Central City. It just seems so out of place in that season where that scene never got called back on, unless they were specifically setting up an Easter Egg for us to find on The Flash.

This episode was kind of "eh" as a follow-up to Sara's murder last week. But, hey, at least we got another cameo from Tommy in that flashback, and it looks like we'll finally get to see what Thea and Merlyn are up to.

I have to agree about Iris. Right now she doesn't add anything to the show except to get in the way of the other characters. I really hope that will change soon, though who really knows? For all I know she could be a villain next week. Or dead. These shows don't tend to tie themselves down to the comics.

Yeah, Iris is probably the weak-link thus far, but the series is young. There is a lot more that they can do with her, so I hope the show gets her down soon.

I do like how Flash has taken a slightly more fun approach from Arrow, without going too far into camp. It makes me wish that both shows were airing on the same night, since they compliment each other so well.

And I agree about Arrow. Good follow-up from the premiere, but the episode wasn't quite as strong.

It would especially be great for them to air on the same night for that 2-episode crossover that we're supposed to get later on down the line (one episode for each series). This is actually pretty awesome and exciting, because it reminds me of how Buffy and Angel had their crossovers, except now I get to have the fun of experiencing it for Arrow and The Flash as it's happening as a brand new thing.

They probably want to spread out their popular shows since these and Supernatural are basically the only popular shows the CW has.

There was The Vampire Diaries, but the vampire fad came and went pretty fast, all things considered.

Has there ever even been a good vampire show since Buffy or Angel?

Does Adventure Time count?

But I hear that The Strain's not bad.

I liked this episode as well. We got some nice developments with certain characters, and Barry is starting to get better at doing his job as The Flash.

Just as a couple of fun facts that I found out:

-The guy who plays Barry's dad in this show also played The Flash on the original TV series from the 90's, which only lasted for a single season, but the tribute is still nice.

-The guy who played Dr. Caitlin Snow's husband is none other than Robbie Amell, Stephen Amell's brother, or in other words the brother if the guy who plays Arrow; and if that's not cool enough, this isn't the last that we'll see of him, as his character is supposed to come back later this season as Firestorm.

Also, next week's episode will be this show's first official crossover with Arrow with Felicity appearing in Central City. That should be an exciting week, for sure.

Tonight's episode of Arrow was the best one of the season so far, IMO. Thea, for one thing, seems A LOT less annoying than she has in past seasons. I'm really hoping that she actually becomes an interesting character this season, as it seems that she is now a lot less whiny than before, and thanks to her training can actually hold her own in a fight.

Meanwhile, we finally got introduced to Ted Grant (Wildcat) and just as I predicted, he'll be training Laurel to become a fighter (but to be fair, that was just way too obvious). It does make it a bit crazy, though, how just about everyone that Oliver knows will essentially be at or comparable to his level in terms of their ability to take down lethal threats, but that certainly isn't a bad thing, in my book. :sweat:

Also, Sara's old "girlfriend" is back in town. This won't be pretty.

That said, even though I'm still obviously more of a fan of Arrow than The Flash so far, since the latter has only just started and hasn't had enough time to develop an interesting plot, next week will be the first time that I'm slightly looking more forward to a Flash episode than an Arrow one, if only because of the Felicity crossover that's going to happen.

Yeah, Flash just started and they (thankfully) already broke the pattern of killing the villains off, so I'm hopeful it will only continue to get better.

Still disappointed they killed off Weather Wizard in the first episode, though.

Well, at least next week we get Captain Cold, and since they now have a designated prison for metahumans, they probably won't kill him off.

Yes, and he looks like he'll be quite a character, too. The show just gets better with every ep.

This 2 shows are certainly the highlights of my week.

Mine too! I'm quite happy with both thus far.

While this thread is mainly just for The CW shows, I figured that I'd briefly mention my thoughts on the other 2 unrelated DC shows running on other networks.

Gotham was actually a concept that I good get behind, as Batman: Year One proved that Gordon could be an incredibly interesting character. Unfortunately, while the show started off with some promise, it's just gotten kind of boring in no time, and when it's not boring, it's just plain stupid. I gave it 5 episodes, and I'm about ready to drop it. It's basically DC's equivalent of AoS, which is really disappointing.

As for Constantine, it was an OK premiere, but nothing special. I'll give them credit for trying to adapt something that's incredibly different than a regular superhero show with its subject material, especially for a property that failed miserably as a movie nearly a decade ago, which means that they must have faith in the source material, but as it stands, the premiere just didn't really grab me that much. I'll watch a few episodes to see if it improves, though.

Having said all of that, it looks like only the crew making The CW adaptations know how to get the formula right for these sorts of shows. To be fair, though, it did take Arrow quite a few episodes before it finalky got interesting, which is why I'm giving these other shows a chance in the first place.

I heard good things about the Gotham pilot, but I forgot to keep up, and from what I've learned about the rest, it doesn't seem like a show I'd like to watch.

Constantine, I do want to check out, though. Maybe I can try it this weekend.

Gotham is my favorite comedy of this season. I laughed when the one guy suddenly died of boneitis after drinking a dozen gallons of milk.

That was an excellent episode of The Flash. They nailed exactly the tone I was hoping the show would have with this one.

Glad Captain Cold is still around, too. Looks like he'll be forming a new specialized heist team of his own...  :happytime:

Great episode. I like how Felicity helped to stabilize the team here by using her own experiences of being on a team with the Arrow. The comedy was also gold in this episode. This show is just so much fun, which is a nice balance with the considerably darker tone of Arrow.

This was a great episode yet again for Arrow. The three-way confrontation and fight between Green Arrow, Dark Arrow, and Nyssa was awesome, and we finally got our big reveal of Ra's, who it appears is most likely behind Sara's death. It looks like the Arrow is officially at odds with The League of Assassins, so the rest of the season should be pretty intense.

Both shows are nailing mostly everything they're aiming for, so I'm totally game for them. Great stuff!

Crap! I forgot that there was no new episode of The Flash this week because of Election Day. That's a bummer, but the good thing about having 2 DC live action shows is that we aren't left completely dry, so we're still getting Arrow. That said, I was surprisingly disappointed when I realized that there was no Flash, which just goes to show how much this series has already grown on me.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 05, 2014, 12:45:13 AM
Crap! I forgot that there was no new episode of The Flash this week because of Election Day. That's a bummer, but the good thing about having 2 DC live action shows is that we aren't left completely dry, so we're still getting Arrow.

But what about Gotham? :sly:

So Roy killed Sara? By the looks of it, he was probably under some sort of mind control. I can't really say that I saw that coming, but we'll have to see who was really behind it later on in the season.

Other than that, it was a good episode for Felicity, but honestly I'm just more interested in seeing the progression of the main plot, as well as the rest of Olliver's backstory in Hong Kong.

Quote from: Foggle on November 05, 2014, 12:53:13 AMBut what about Gotham? :sly:

:srs:

Felicity is easily one of my favorite characters, so I really enjoyed this one.

While I'm not as big of a Felicity fan as a lot of Arrow fans seem to be, sheis definitely the best female character on either DC Live Action show, by far, and it was good to see her finally get an episode dedicated to her.

Yeah, I just like how her flashback material was integrated into the episode. It reminds me of Oliver's stuff from the first season that we've seen increasingly less of as it goes along, but didn't drag on as much for me. Felicity's stuff with her mother was also well done, and I especially like how her mother talked about the differences between herself and Felicity's father. I really started to learn some more about her here.

Holy shit! That ending! I can't believe that they are doing that villain! I'm not sure how exactly they'll pull it off, but I'm still super excited to see it in the future.

Also, this was a pretty strong episode. It's a shame that a potential ally had to be killed off so quickly, though. Still, we have an interesting new villain in the general, and now there's been a development in the sub-plot for Irish, where she has at least talked to Ths Flash, but has yet to discover that he's Barry. Overall, this show just keeps getting better and better.

Last week's episode of Gotham was fantastic. Zsasz is going to be fun in this series (that ringtone  .3.). Penguin has just been killing it in this. Gordon's standoff with Zsasz and later Falcone with Bollock was nicely done too. I can't wait to see what happens later.






Saw the first episode of Flash last week, I'll watch the second real soon. Still need to start on Arrow too.

Another great week for Flash and Arrow, whoa!

So Riy didn't kikl Sarah after all. I like how they didn't just leave it as a throwaway plot point, and instead cleverly tied it back to Roy killing that police officer from season 2, which is a fact that he'll now have to learn to live with.

I'm also glad that we got back to the flashbacks this week. The Hong Kong sub-plot has proven to be far more interesting than any of the stuff on the island so far, IMO.

I agree about that. The flashbacks have been more interesting this season than they have been beforehand, which I'm totally for.

The latest episode of The Flash was INCREDIBLE. I can't believe how fast this show is quickly gaining its footing. I complained about villain deaths before, but the way they did it here was simply perfect as far as characters and story go. Not to mention, a killer usage of Clock King and the supporting characters. This show is really coming together.

Not to mention this week we get THE crossover.

Yep, this is Flarrow week. :thumbup:

Who's ready for part 1 of the Flash/Arrow crossover event tonight? I know I am. I imagine that it would be the equivalent of the Buffy/Angel crossovers from back in the day, except I never got to experience those as they were happening. There's a certain excitement to getting the opportunity to do that here.

That was awesome. It was actually quite impressive how Oliver and Diggle fit in with The Flash universe while still remaining themselves. Angry Barry was also quite a terror to behold, though, I have to admit I was disappointed we didn't get see Arrow and Flash take the villain down after all that. At least it lead to a funny joke at the end.

Also, Oliver is the first person to realize something about the doc ain't quite right. Shame he didn't look into it further.

Captain Boomerang has made his appearance... and he was actually done well!

I have to say, the Arrow and Flash teams work very well together. I hope there are more crossovers in the future.

Oliver and Barry really do work well. Barry has a sense of love for what he does that translates well across the game, an energy that Ollie never really had the chance to express. Together, they mesh wonderfully.

Overall, it was a great 2-part cross-over. Here are my thoughts:

Part 1: Flash vs. Arrow- The chemistry between Barry and Ollie was great. I love the approach of Ollie mentoring Barry in this episode, since he's been at the superhero gig for far longer, and takes a far more serious approach to how he deals with this job. Both of these episodes had a connecting theme of the two heroes influencing each other in necessary ways to improve each other. It's highly appropriate that in the Flash part of this cross-over, it's Ollie who helps Barry improve as a character. True, we barely got to see them fight the villain, but that was never the point of this episode. He literally was just an afterthought, and an excuse to get them to team up. It was really about the developing alliance, trust, and friendship between these two characters. On top of all of that, we got a great payoff to that scene from Arrow season 2 where we found out that Ollie got a woman pregnant and his mother paid her off to move to Central City and raise her child there. We got confirmation that his son is alive and well, and I have no doubt that this will come back in future seasons if the show has a long and healthy run. In addition to that, I really like how Ollie was the first real person to notice that there's something strange about Harrison Wells. It makes sense due to his deductive nature, accumulated experience, and lack of trust for people in general.

Part 2: The Brave and the Bold- Just like how the Flash portion of the crossover was about some of Ollie's experience rubbing off on Barry, we get to see him return the favor in this episode by showing Ollie that his path doesn't need to be as dark as it is. Ollie realizes here that, despite his lighter attitude, Barry still takes his job as a superhero just as seriously as he does. The difference is that due to not being brought up to his status in the twisted way that Ollie was, he has a more clear-headed outlook on how to deal with crime, and therefore will always find another way to overcome a situation without resorting to violence unless it's absolutely necessary. Also, since it was done in the style of an Arrow episode, we did get a lot more focus on the villain this time, and Captain Boomerang was a really good threat that seemed like he was a big enough deal to require the team-up. The only thing that this episode was really missing for me was an appearance of Ray Palmer, which would have been nice with all of the superhero action going on, but I'm willing to bet that in the back-half of this season of Arrow, we'll be getting a full-blown superhero crossover.

Here's what I'm predicting will happen by the end of either season (but most likely on Arrow). We'll get a crossover featuring: Green Arrow, The Flash, Arsenal, Black Canary (Laurel), Wildcat, Firestorm, and Atom. Now just how bad-ass will that be? I mean, no, that crossover itself has not been confirmed, but all of these characters have definitely been confirmed to appear in either show, and it's only inevitable that we finally get our mini-Justice League episode, isn't it? ;)

Also, Deathstroke was confirmed to be returning for the second half of this season of Arrow. So yeah, awesomeness is guaranteed.

A potential worry about Roy Harper.

If Young Justice showed us anything, it's the two different path the character goes down. I really hope they continue him down the Red Arrow path and stay WAY off the Arsenal path. Arsenal in the comics was a horrible idea and has lead to nothing good and many never-ending jokes near the level of Hank Pym. Red Arrow, even at his worst, is a much better character and more worthy of this show.

I know it's just a codename, and most likely just a nod, but I really hope they don't go down that way.

I have no idea what his comic book counterpart is like, but I like the way that they've been handling Roy's character in this show just fine, at least so far. I'm not worried, personally. This show has gotten better with each season. It went from being a just OK show to being a legitimately good and solid show to, IMO, being a great show with this season, so far. So, I have the utmost confidence that these writers understand the process of how to keep the quality of this show up, and given their current momentum, I don't see them faltering any time soon.

Also, the fact that Roy is currently going through so much guilt for the innocent police officer that he killed while he was under the influence of the MIRAKURU shows me that this character's heart is in the right place, so far as this show goes.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 04, 2014, 07:38:36 PM
I have no idea what his comic book counterpart is like, but I like the way that they've been handling Roy's character in this show just fine, at least so far. I'm not worried, personally. This show has gotten better with each season. It went from being a just OK show to being a legitimately good and solid show to, IMO, being a great show with this season, so far. So, I have the utmost confidence that these writers understand the process of how to keep the quality of this show up, and given their current momentum, I don't see them faltering any time soon.

Oh, I don't think they'll do it, it's just a worry in the back of my head. I like Roy Harper as a character, but the comic industry ruined him with Arsenal and seem incapable of letting him go. If there's one thing I hope the show will continue to avoid, it's that whole awful character.

And judging from the direction of the show and how they've dealt with it, they probably will avoid it.

It's just one of those nagging worries you get sometimes. Like hoping a new Batman show doesn't use Jason Todd as Robin.

I love Batman as much as the next person, but would it be asking too much to get a Nightwing show? Batman has had plenty of time in the spotlight. Let's give another member of the Batman family a time to shine with his own solo show.

I've been hoping for a bat show that takes place later in his career with Jason Todd already dead or the Red Hood, Dick Grayson as Nightwing, and Tim Drake as the new Robin.

Anything other than yet another Year Zero show.

Anyone want to take a stab at guessing what exactly is going on?

I smell a time-travel plot. :sly:

Now THAT was one hell of a mid-season finale. I don't think that I can wait until January to find out what happens next. This season really is living up to the full potential of the show.

I read a brief article about Arrow in TV Guide, and it promised that the next couple of episodes are going to be hella intense. I can't wait, wow.

Flash also had a great mid-season finale. Man, these shows just can't come back soon enough!

Arrow season 1 was alright, and showed potential, but it was ultimately just "solid" entertainment. Good, but nowhere near great, IMO. Then we got season 2, and the writers were clearly showing some valuable experience gained from the first season. The first half of the season still wasn't great, but it had a good sense of build-up. To something bigger. The second half of the season gave us a big jump in quality, with the Deathstroke storyline taking center stage. It was the first time that the. Series felt like it was starting to live up to its potential. That said, when the season ended, I was wondering if that momentum would last, and not only didn't keep going with strong force, but I'd say that, so far, season 3 has proven to be even another step up from the before, which is saying a lot.

At this point, I'd say that the current show is pretty great. Like, Whedon-quality great, even though it's not a Whedon show. I'd still say that it's on par with any good Buffy or Angel season, for the most part. As for The Flash, I definitely think that it had a much stronger start than Arrow's first season, but like that season, it still has its shortcomings that it has to work out, most,y with the supporting characters, in this case, but given Arrow's track record, I'm absolutely sure that it'll catch up to that level of quality before too long. As it stands, it's about on par with the quality of the first half of Arrow's second season, which by no means is a bad thing. It just means that, while good, it can certainly get even better from here.

I'm not going to rank season 3 episodes, mostly because I need to view them multiple times to rate them, but I decided to put up my list of top ten Arrow episodes so far. You might be surprised by some of these, maybe not, I dunno, but while I have watched it from episode one, I only became a fan by episode six. Even though the show was not 100% consistent, it was the episode that proved to me the show would be going places. Without further ado, here are my top ten episodes of Arrow (so far):


10. The Odyssey (Season 1, episode 14)

I'm mostly a fan of this episode because for most of season 1, what was going on on the island was more interesting than Starling City. This is the episode where we learn a lot about Slade Wilson and what exactly Fyers is up to. The added bonus is that at the end of the episode, Felicity joins the team. All in all, there isn't anything about this episode I don't like.


9. Salvation (Season 1, episode 18)

This is, I think, the episode where Arrow learns what it's best at. There's a villain that is inspired by our protagonist in order to clean up the streets of Starling City, and nobody on the team can seem to stop him. Then Roy is captured who admits he's nothing more than a low-life and doesn't disagree when "The Savior" tells him that his life is worthless. But eventually the Vigilante catches up with him and offers both the villain and Roy a chance to start over. "The Savior" rejects his offer forcing Ollie to kill him, but Roy secretly takes it to heart. Meanwhile, Moira gives up Frank Chen and Slade and Oliver rescue Shado at the cost of potentially losing many more. All in all, this was one of my favorites.


8. Legacies (Season 1, episode 6)

Up to this point, Arrow had been a competent action series. The problem was that while Oliver was justified in cleaning up his city-- he wasn't the right person to do it. Diggle, his bodyguard, was finally let in on the secret only to watch Oliver arrested for being the Arrow and then freed in a plan that was remarkably selfish in how little he thought of his family and used Diggle as a tool in order to proclaim his innocence. But this is the episode where things begin to change because Diggle has had about enough of Ollie's crap. He convinces the vigilante to go after a bank-robbing gang known as the Royal Flush Gang in which our "hero" quickly learns two things. One is that he can't simply kill them and two is that his precious list is not the golden key to crime-fighting he thought it was. In this episode, the Vigilante fails because he's not a hero and he doesn't save anybody because he doesn't know how to. To me, this is the episode that shows where Arrow would eventually go, and is the exact episode where I became a fan.


7. Time of Death (Season 2, episode 14)

The Clock King has always been a tricky villain to get right, but I think they nailed him on Arrow. Just as much Felicity's nemesis than Oliver's, this was the episode where she got to stand out on her own. And that's no small feat-- Temple FugateWilliam Tockman is sharp, quick-witted, and always thinking ahead hours ahead by the minute. She proves herself an invaluable member of the team, also saving Sara's life in the process. The episode also ends with the reveal that Slade is, in fact, alive and at Ollie's house. This is the time the main plot kicks into overdrive. Not to mention, on the island we learn why Sara is always looking out for Sin, which adds a nice touch to the whole episode. Great stuff.


6. Sacrifice (Season 1, episode 23)

The first season finale made quite a deliberate point. The Vigilante fails. While they stop Malcolm Merlyn and one of the earthquake devices, and Moira actively sells the villain out, it doesn't matter. Oliver loses his identity to his nemesis, a backup device levels the glades, and Tommy dies. The Vigilante was not enough to stop someone like the Dark Archer and in the end is left wondering what it is he can possibly do to make up for his failures. This is the episode where the show permanently changes. The Vigilante dies with Tommy Merlyn, and Oliver begins to reevaluate everything he has been trying to do since he returned from the island. It's a bittersweet season finale as on the island Slade, Shado, and Oliver, stop Fyers, but they are still trapped on the island. Meanwhile, it seems that Starling City might not last much longer. With an ending like that, I just knew I had to keep watching, and I'm glad I did.


5. Deathstroke (Season 2, episode 18)

Things get knocked off the rails as Slade finally puts his plans into motion, torturing Oliver and the ones he loves. During the distraction Deathstroke kidnaps a group on convicts, Roy leaves the city, Lance goes to jail, and Laurel learns the Arrow's true identity. Not to mention that Thea is told the truth of her parentage. Oliver even loses his company. What makes this episode so good is how everything is set off based on build ups that have happened earlier in the season, including Slade's master plan which we get a peak of when we flash back to the island where he chews out Sara for trying to deceive him. From this point on, it's a roller-coaster to the end of the season.


4. The Man Under the Hood (Season 2, episode 19)

This is the answer episode to the last one. We find out the repercussions of everything that happened there and how it will affect things going forward. Oliver and his team have to break into his own company so that Slade can't use it for himself, Roy is kidnapped as the Mirakuru is destroying him, and Felicity uses her connections to STAR Labs in order to try and find a cure for it. Deathstroke's army gathers, and the endgame is near. On the island Oliver reaches the breaking point, executing Dr. Ivo and throwing away any chance at saving Slade-- which comes back to bite him. As the end of season one proved, Oliver is going down the wrong road in the past while in the present he has to decide whether he can fall back on old habits or be the hero that he promised he would be. Season 2 continues its endgame.


3. Seeing Red (Season 2, episode 20)

Where to start with this episode? Roy loses himself to the mirakuru, nearly decimating the populace on his own, and Oliver having to fight with Sara over killing him. We learn how exactly the mirakuru drove Slade mad as it does the same thing to Roy here, making him want to kill Thea. Knowing that he will come to her, Thea sets a trap at Verdant and Roy is finally brought down. Moira reveals she has known Oliver was the man under the hood since the earthquake and approves of what he is doing to atoning for both his family's and his own sins. But then the episode ends in a rather brutal turn as the three members of the Queen family are captured by Slade, who we learn is hearing voices telling him what to do as Roy was. He succumbs to his madness as he kills Moira Queen right in front of Oliver and Thea and leaves them to suffer. This is one of the best episodes in the series on a character level as heavy decisions have to be made throughout, ending in one of the most unexpected turns in the series.


2. Three Ghosts (Season 2, episode 9)

This is going back awhile from the others, but this was probably the episode that stuck with me the most from season 2. Roy comes back from the dead as Oliver saves his life, Slade comes back from the dead to find he's alone on the island, Shado dies and Oliver unable to save her, and Barry Allen ends up saving Oliver's life, to which he is ungrateful. Lance loses his fellow officers, including his partner, and the city seems to be going down the drain. At the same time, Oliver sees visions from his past telling him (much like the mirakuru does-- foreshadowing?) that he has failed and should give up his pursuit of being a hero, because he is only a killer. as Slade tells him in his vision, "This wasn't to atone for your father's sins. This was to atone for yours." which we later learn is the case. The final ghost is the one of Tommy who tells him the truth, that he is more than a killer and a vigilante, that he is a real hero and he can't give up. To be honest, this is probably my personal favorite episode in the show.


1. Unthinkable (Season 2, episode 23)

This is where everything in the series so far comes to a head. The past and the present parallel each other as in both places Oliver must choose to either save Slade or kill him. In the past when given the chance, he chooses wrong and kills his former friend. In the present, his decision becomes much tougher. The episode title says a lot for everybody involved. Lance leads the police at their darkest hour as Starling City falls apart around them. Thea runs away and leaves Roy with little choice as to become a hero for the city with Oliver, and Felicity makes a gamble to be captured by Slade in order to inject the cure into him. On even ground, Oliver is able to stop Slade without killing him and imprisons him on the island where he promises revenge on him for what he's done. Meanwhile in the past, Ollie awakens off the island and meets Amanda Waller for the first time. It's an interesting contrast how in the past Oliver falls deeper into darkness while in the present he manages to rise above it. This is probably the best episode in the show (up to this point) where about everything comes full circle and is finally able to move forward at the same time.


So, those are my choices. What do you think? Agree / disagree? What would you choose?

that was pretty boring but the ant-man teaser was nice.

Great to have Gotham back! That Gruber guy actually looked pretty awesome in his costume (he's apparently this show's version of the Electricutioner) from the preview. Gordon and Bullock taking charge at Arkam from that pompous director was nice too.

Quote from: gunswordfist on January 06, 2015, 09:12:26 PM
that was pretty boring but the ant-man teaser was nice.

I think you're in the wrong thread. :P But I think we might need a thread for Marvel's shows. Should I make one, or turn the AOS thread into one for Agent Carter and the Netflix shows as well?

And nice list, Spark! Man, the second season hit such a high near the end, and season 3 has been rolling with it since.

oh now you tell me, lol.

Great List, Spark. Since this season has been great so far, I'll withhold doing my own list until it's finished airing.

I found this list (http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-10-things-need-happen-next.php) talking about the "divisive" season 3 and what needs to happen next.

The writer doesn't seem to know a whole lot about Ra's al Ghul or the pits as number 9 and 10 will surely be answered. But the others just seem obvious.

I disagree with #2, though. Not that I want Starling City flowing with super-villains with powers, but having none at all now that we know they're out there would feel like cheating. Oliver and the team having to craft ways around beating them, without Barry's super speed, would open up fresh plots. The writer's argument is that superpowers instantly mean Oliver has no way to win a fight with them. That is simply not true.

Arrow was renewed for season 4 and The Flash for season 2.

Not much of a surprise there, I guess?

What else do they have? Supernatural is so long in the tooth that the actors are bound to start graying in the next few years, Vampire Diaries is as irrelevant as you can possibly be while still getting renewed, and everything else on the network gets shit ratings.

But yes, hooray for more Arrow and Flash.

I quite enjoyed the episode on tonight. Heat Wave and Captain Cold made a dangerous team, but something tells me this won't be the last we see of either of them. Especially considering what happened at the end.

On the other hand, it's a shame that Joe is almost certainly going to die. I quite like him and he has a good dynamic with everyone else.

i want to start watching supernatural.

Quote from: gunswordfist on January 21, 2015, 12:00:46 AM
i want to start watching supernatural.

Ask Dalek where to start.

The new Arrow was great, but I'm always a fan of seeing what characters do when the main character is missing. You can tell the loss of Ollie has them confused and frayed, yet they still went out there and did their job.

But still, those were some great action sequences. Everybody really went all out.

While I still like this show, the writers really need to change the formula up. Several episodes in a row have just been as follows:

-A new metahuman is revealed, and they are a bad guy/gal just because
-Barry learns about them at a crime scene, then encounters them as The Flash shortly after that
-Round 1: He gets his ass kicked because he underestimates them and doesn't understand their ability
-The Star Labs team research a way to defeat their new foe and tell Barry
-Round 2: As The Flash, Barry uses that research to strategically win the fight
-The enemy is captured and locked up
-Either we get a scene showing us how clearly evil Dr. Wells is, or a new character or villain is teased

Rinse and repeat.

Like I said, it's still entertaining, but unlike Arrow we really haven't seen the show even begin to evolve yet. Personally I hope that it happens with the development of Firestorm subplot. We really need another regular ally to Barry to help shake up the team dynamic.

half of an episode i saw was just like that, lol

I do agree. I'm enjoying it, but we're getting to the point that we need a shake up to happen now. I am happy they're no longer killing the villains off indiscriminately, but it would be nice to have more than two round fights that end with the villain's capture.

On the other hand, they need to do something with Iris already. When that guy, Mason, at the paper, told her off, I was nodding along with everything he said-- and I got the distinct impression I wasn't supposed to. As far as the entire cast goes, she is by far the weakest link and adds little to the show except to be Barry's love interest who has no interest in him.

Yeah, with the formula, I'm at least confident that they can break out of it like they did with Arrow after the first season. But Iris has me concerned as to whether the writers even know what to do with her. Some fans have compared her to Laurel from early on in Arrow, but here's the difference: Laurel was unlikable, but NOT uninteresting. She was intentionally written to have several issues to work out, but seeing her get through her self-destructive hero and legitimately become helpful to Team Arrow was in and of itself rewarding to watch and felt purposeful. Iris, in comparison, is just a nuisance, in that she's either inconsequentially boring or inconsequentially annoying. Either way, she's just there....because she's Barry's most iconic love interest from the comics. There really isn't any other justification to her character in the show, so far, which isn't a good sign for her.

Laurel at least did things in the main plot-line and had relevance to the story. Nothing about Iris so far has added up to anything except to whine about attention she isn't getting and, frankly, doesn't deserve (really, Barry and Eddie HAND HER everything), to get in the way of either the cops or The Flash, and to make Barry generally uncomfortable.

In contrast, Laurel worked as a lawyer to help people, worked undercover and put bad guys away, and has, since mid-season 2, tried to better herself. She hasn't always been likeable, but she contributes to the story. Iris hasn't done any of that yet and has been handed any relevance to the story she has by Barry or Eddie.

At this point, she's clearly in Mary Sue territory.

So, does anyone else think DC TV has been doing villains better than the Marvel movies or is it just me?

Well, in Arrow we've had 3 major villains so far: Dark Arrow (though he's arguably more of an anti-hero right now), Deathstroke (who is by far the best interpretation that I have seen of this character in any adaptation), and Ra's Al Ghul (likewise). I suppose you could also count the flash-back villains, but they haven't impressed me too much. The rest of the villains from Arrow and The Flash are more run-of-the-mill one-shot or minor recurring villains. They are fun, if somewhat forgettable. Now, as for Marvel, Loki is the only truly stand-out villain so far, so Arrow alone has the MCU beat 3-to-1, IMO, but to be fair, it just has much more time to develop its major villains as a TV series. If we were to compare it to a Marvel series like TSSM or AEMH (which are animated, but still TV shows) then I'd say that Marvel could match Arrow.

If we're including animated shows, then the game goes in a pretty interesting direction.

But I think even episodic villains like Clock King, Brick, or Pied Piper are really good, too.

I find Brick in and of himself to be OK, but it'll be interesting to see Merlyn/Dark Arrow confront him later on since, if you've been paying attention to clues and character background info from the past, he is in fact the guy who killed Merlyn's wife (Tommy's mother).

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 04, 2015, 09:21:07 PM
I find Brick in and of himself to be OK, but it'll be interesting to see Merlyn/Dark Arrow confront him later on since, if you've been paying attention to clues and character background info from the past, he is in fact the guy who killed Merlyn's wife (Tommy's mother).

It was addressed in tonight's episode, actually.  ;)

I'm always a day late on episodes since I don't have cable and have to wait for them to upload it online, but at least I figured it out early. :P

I've caught up to The Flash, and I'm really liking where this show seems to be going. The guys from Prison Break as two of Flash's Rouges have knocked every scene they have out of the park. Thankfully, they're due to come back very soon this season! :)



In regards to Iris, she's not of my favorite characters, but I think she's okay. I can see why some would find her boring, but I don't think she's annoying. I blame the writers dragging their feet with her, not herself. They already had something with her blogs about The Flash that could have been utilized for the story, like using it as a way to introduce other characters from the comics that would fit this show. But they dropped that, so I'm hoping with her being a reporter now that that will lead her getting to something other than being rescued.

Captain Cold and Heatwave were really fun villains, and I can't wait for them to come back. Though since they no longer have their weapons, I wonder what they're going to do to get them back.

That scene with Red Arrow and Lance last night was hilarious, by the way. Of course people like Thea and Lance could tell he was the Arrow's partner, he only went on about wanting to help him over and over since they first met him.  :D

Arrow just keeps getting better with every episode.

Well, Golden Glider will play a part in them getting them back I imagine. Is it wrong that I'm hoping Heat Wave gets a better supervillain outfit? Cold's parka is perfectly fine, but that outfit Heat Wave had just looks off. There's a small resemblance to his comic costume I guess, I just think they could put him in something that would look better.

hmm, merlyn and brick are in the show? green arrow probably has my 3rd favorite rogue gallery out of every justice leaguer and my interest in seeing them in live action is growing. i might start the show when i get my internet.

Quote from: gunswordfist on February 05, 2015, 06:20:36 PM
hmm, merlyn and brick are in the show? green arrow probably has my 3rd favorite rogue gallery out of every justice leaguer and my interest in seeing them in live action is growing. i might start the show when i get my internet.

Dude, Slade and Ras are even in the show.  8-)

You've been missing out.

that's right, the demon's head is in the show now. i heard about wilson being in it from the beginning. he's of course my favorite ga villain. top 5 or 3 in all of dc.

As someone who never read any DC comics aside from some Superman stories, my only exposure to Slade/Deathstroke prior to this show was from Teen Titans and some DTV DCAU movies. I never got why so many people seemed to love that character until I saw him in this show and became a fan. Now I legitimately want to read comic book story-lines prominently featuring the character, just because the show made me a fan.

Arrow does characters from the comics justice, definitely more than any other live action superhero show before it. For instance, I've never really liked Oliver Queen much until Stephen Amell's portrayal of the character. I liked him in Justice League Unlimited and TB&TB, but he wasn't the same as the comic book version in a lot of ways. In Arrow, they sharpened the character enough that I can hardly imagine Green Arrow in a different way than in this show.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 05, 2015, 06:32:30 PMAs someone who never read any DC comics aside from some Superman stories, my only exposure to Slade/Deathstroke prior to this show was from Teen Titans and some DTV DCAU movies. I never got why so many people seemed to love that character until I saw him in this show and became a fan. Now I legitimately want to read comic book story-lines prominently featuring the character, just because the show made me a fan.

I KEEP MY PROMISES.

read deathstroke full cycle. it shows slade with a code of honor despite being a mercenary/assassin.

i actually thought teen titans animated slade was alright but nothing special. years later, wilson's infamous fight against the justice league in the identity crisis comic caught my attention so i checked out full cycle and became a fan. i have mostly just seen him in a few post-2000 green arrow comics since then. i haven't seen his young justice episodes yet.

whoa, he's like comic book oliver? this is sounding too good..i think btbatb and jlu green arrow are okay but all of the versions i am a true fan of are in the comics. even hal has an animated version that i am a fan of but not queen.

He's a take-no-prisoners assertive hero who isn't an egotistical blowhard. Basically, the better parts of Oliver Queen.

I liked in TB&TB that they played off of his arrogance for comedy, but in a serious setting he gets old fast.

Good episode of The Flash this week. It was nice to finally see a change of pace from the usual formula. It looks like the Firestorm arc will still be continuing, though, and I'm fine with that, because itd be pretty weak writing to resolve the problem so easily.

Oh, he'll be back. I'm just wondering how they'll end up handling him. Will they flip it to need both Dr. Stein and Ronnie to turn into Firestorm together instead of having them the way they currently are? You know, make it so that they need to both combine to be a superhero like in TB&TB? That would be interesting.

I'm just now getting to this week's Flash, and it's already off to a good start by using "Uptown Funk" as an opener.

Looks like next week's Arrow will have a Slade appearance. :joy:

lucky...

The Fox Network... where awesome ideas go to die.

http://io9.com/fox-is-simultaneously-greenlighting-and-ruining-the-luc-1686815107

Kill me now.

So now we have The Atom!

I wonder how this is going to affect the plot?

Found this on sitcomsonline which was a link to another blog. The title is "8 Reasons why Arrow Has Jumped the Shark."

I'm not kidding.

QuoteJust Missing The Cut

• Honorable Mention #1: Death Means Noting: I get it, the show is based on a comic book where death has become meaningless. However it bothers me that Malcolm Merlyn has escaped death's hand and that they teased the title characters demise for all of one show.

#8. Roy the Boyfriend not Staying in his Lane

Maybe this is the overprotective sibling in me speaking but I get very perturbed by an outsider coming in-between a brother and his sister. At this moment, Arsenal is only an ex-boyfriend of Thea. So he has no place trying to check Oliver in the way he deals with his sister and I'm personally tired of seeing him interject himself into their conversation. Let's just keep it all the way 100, Thea has a history of making poor decisions. From developing a drug problem, going down to the glades time and time again looking for Roy to the horrendous decision of going off with her (known) genocidal father so she never gets hurt again. So if Ollie wants to keep certain things from her or not include her in on Arrow related situations (a la when Laurel as Black Canary lay on the table drugged) then he has every right to do so. I get it, Roy being the partner of the Arrow while also the on-again off-again lover of Oliver Queen's baby sister creates tension on the show. But for me as a viewer I cringe whenever Roy is on screen and it tempts me to the fast forward button through his scenes.

#7. The Perpetual Flashbacks

We get it already. A lot of things happened to Oliver before his return to Starling City. Enough with the flashbacks. I know Lost made it an integral part of the storytelling and as such TV show today are following suit with this overdone trope. It was a great way to tell the dual story of Oliver's return home while showing what he endured on that island for five years. Now that we know most of what his ordeal was and the Arrow has become firmly established as the city's hero, the flashbacks have become a crutch on the show. The creative team are utilizing it as a parallel a present day story with something that took place years ago. And nowadays it's taking away from valuable present day storyline character development and plot advancement.

#6. Too Many People Knows Oliver's Secret

Diggle. Felicity. Sara. Roy. Laurel. Thea. Nyssa. Ra's Al Ghul. Slade Wilson. Have I named them all? It's embarrassing that Detective Lance hasn't figured it out. It's quite lame that they have a character where secrecy and lying to protect his loved ones is part of his personality yet so many people know about his dangerous alter ego.

#5. Lies & Secrets

"More secrets." "I'm tired of the lying." "I lied to you to protect you." Seriously it's 2015 and television shows are still writing these tired and clichéd lines in a superhero show. Just once I wish the protagonist would say, "Yes I lied to you because you don't need to know everything." It's lazy trope by the writers and considering they know certain characters are on a need to know basis there are better ways to write these interactions. It was refreshing as hell to see Thea's reaction to learning Oliver's secret vigilante life or when she was told that she was Sara's killer. They didn't go back to tired "more lies" but instead she felt relief and actual gratitude. To make me not remove my season pass on this show they have to do away with this lame dialogue.

#4. Felicity-Ray Ship

Nooooooo~! As much as we want Felicity Smoak to be in a loving relationship, Ray Palmer is not the person we want her with. The man stole Ollie's company for Pete's sake. Look if the Arrow can't be with Felicity because what he does puts his love ones in danger, fine. But do the audience have to bear witness to them flaunting Felicity's happiness with another would be crime fighter?

#3. No Olicity

Funny thing happened on the way to the Oliver Queen-Laurel Lance "ship". Arrow's fanbase fell in love with a smart, spunky blonde by the name of Felicity. Unlike the needy and often times useless Black Canary 2.0, Felicity Smoak proves herself in each episode as a worthy love interest for the emerald archer. When she figures out how to help Ollie save the day we root for her. When she gets on her moral soapbox with an impassioned speech to talk some sense into the gang, we side with her. And watching her eyes water in despair as she came to the realization that the man she loves will not be returning home, we felt her pain. The writers seem hell bent on keeping to the source material which means NO Olicity, and, at least for this viewer, it's a bad decision.

#2. Arrow's Girlfriend Laurel Lance

Keeping in line with the CW's portrayal of other comic book love interests, the creative team of Arrow has gone about making a wholly unlikable love interest for our protagonist. Except aren't we supposed to like her so when she ends up with our hero we're happy about it? Laurel is just as grating as Lana Lang was and, now, Iris West is now. We all know canonical Black Canary & Green Arrow end up together, even married for a time. However, to delay Ollie and Laurel from being a couple, in the process, the writers have turned the audience against Laurel and actively root for anyone to be by our archer's side. But why? It's as if the writers of these comic shows think the entirety of the show's audience are male. (Newsflash it isn't!) Worse that this male demographic has some issues with women in our personal lives and that the only way we'll tolerate this women infiltrating our comic shows is if we they're written in an unlikable matter so that we can hate them. It's as good an explanation as I can think of why the writers of these shows continue make "hatable love interest" characters like Laurel. Here's to us, loser geeks who can't have healthy relationship with women.

#1. Characters Acting Stupid

Really stupidly. It all began in episode five when Merlyn, along with Thea in tow, made his way back to Starling City. Cornered by Nyssa from the League of Assassins, Malcolm is taken down and in the custody of Oliver who decides...to let him go? Are you serious? The man is responsible for the deaths of 500 people in the Glades and never stood trial for their murders and Oliver doesn't bring him to justice because Merlyn uses the logic of "I'll just escape." So~! Ollie couldn't put him through the inconvenience of having to do so. This season of Arrow has seen a number of characters do stupid things for the sake of advancing the narrative toward something epic in the series finale. But their path arriving there ridiculous with scenarios like: having Felicity upset that it took Oliver too long to get back to Starling City despite the fact he left to a fight to the death with Ra's Al Ghul. Or how about the wholly untrained Laurel getting her assed handed to her because she must cope with her sister's death somehow. Or...sigh, you get the picture. The level of asinine things there having their characters do is bordering on Heroes Season 2 level of stupidity and we all know that show never recovered.

You heard it here first. Season three is where Arrow has jumped the shark.

In all seriousness, I disagree with nearly all of this partially because the last thing I give a crap about in shows are pairings. Roy is actually one of my favorite characters because he tries to keep things focused on business, something the others lose focus of. This author is obsessed with shipping, therefore the one character not in a relationship who currently has no interest in a relationship confuses and angers them. How dare Roy still care about Thea even if he isn't dating her. It's almost like real life and stuff.

Also, #1 makes me think the author wasn't actually paying attention to what characters were saying or catching their motivations.

Finally, I'm not sure the writer actually knows what "jumping the shark" actually means. It isn't the point in which the show "gets bad", it's the point in which you realize the show has reached a point where it has overstayed its welcome and will never be as good as it once was.

All of those are things the show has already done since season 1 (and has gotten better at since then) or is relationship stuff which is purely subjective and has no bearing on the fact that it doesn't affect the main plot.

No wait, if Oliver starts dating Felicity then Ra's al Ghul will understand he was mistaken in his quest to wipe out mankind and will happily deliver himself to the law. But because he's not (and he's not dating Laurel, either . . . so the Laurel hate is misguided here) then Ras will never be stopped. This is how drama works, apparently.

That article was a good laugh.

So basically Arrow sucks because it's not giving some fans the pairing that they want to see? Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I mean, clearly this show was always about who's dating who, and the idea of costumed heroes fighting crime was just a side thing for shits and giggles.

Also, Oliver and Laurel have literally shared no romantic interest in each other since season 1, so....WTF is up with #2?

Seriously, though, I can counter all of those points. For one thing, it'd be ridiculous if the people close to Oliver didn't find out his identity after so many times that he made some excuse to leave and then the Arrow appeared. Honestly, I'm surprised that it took Thea so long to come into the fold, and in general, I find the whole secret identity trope to be a rather contrived and dated aspect of comic book superheroes. I'm actually glad that the MCU movies have avoided that so far.

As for saying that death means nothing on the show: Tommy, Moira, and Sarah say hello....or not, because they're dead.

As someone who's not typically a fan of flash-backs, the ones on this show are great, and more than just a crutch, because they are actually important to the plot, and Oliver's character arc.

And as for characters acting stupid, he only gives one example of that....which is also flat-out incorrect on his part. Oliver doesn't put Merlyn in prison because he needs his help to fight Ra's and the League of Assassins. That point has literally been covered so much on the show that I don't know how anyone could possibly miss it. But, apparently this guy did, probably because he was too busy fretting over Oliver not hooking up with Felicity to pay attention to anything else going on.

The secret identity thing has been bypassed for the symbol. It happened when Lance could have learned Arrow's identity and chose not to. At that point it became clear that whoever Green Arrow is, it doesn't matter anymore. Whoever learns his identity at this point is inconsequential.

I also really like the flashbacks in this show as they add shades to Oliver's character and opens up the world more. Personally, I'm just wondering how much longer they can run with it, since they can only do it for two more seasons.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 02, 2015, 05:56:32 PMAs for saying that death means nothing on the show: Tommy, Moira, and Sarah say hello....or not, because they're dead.

Not to mention Robert Queen as well as his fellow members who Merlyn killed in season 1.

This just seems to be whining that Oliver didn't die after his duel with Ra's. And again, if you didn't want him to die so he could be with Felicity . . . well, why would you want him to die?

Silly.

Yeah, I also meant to point that out but forgot. Detective Lance flat-out said that he doesn't want to know. Once again, this guy just loves to ignore obvious details for the convenience of his complaints, which, once again, are mostly about shipping.

Ironically, the one thing that he did mention that I actually happen to agree with is that Iris is a poorly written character so far, and that isn't even relevant to Arrow, since she's a character exclusive to The Flash.

I'm not the biggest fan of Laurel, but she's hardly Oliver's love interest, especially right now. Which leads me to this:

QuoteThe writers seem hell bent on keeping to the source material which means NO Olicity, and, at least for this viewer, it's a bad decision.

This shows complete ignorance on the history of the Green Arrow. The writers aren't tied to the source material at all. If they were, we wouldn't have gotten:

Oliver Queen not being a cocky schmuck
Thea Queen
The entire redemption arc of season 1
Slade Wilson ingesting Mirakuru leading to the great story arc of season 2
Roy's fall under Mirakuru which is essentially a replacement for his drug habits in the comic
95% of the events in the flashbacks
Tommy and the end of season 1
John Diggle
Anyone knowing Oliver's identity, therefore no Team Arrow
Sara's story arc
Ray Palmer and the Atom showing up
The election arc which ends in the death of a major character
The Flash crossover / Barry Allen showing up at all
Pretty much every episode so far

Oh, and Felicity wouldn't even be in the show, so no pairing for the writer.

To say they're limited by being tied to the source material is flat out wrong.

Wow.  :huh:

I, uh... don't know what to say.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 17, 2015, 08:00:49 PM
Wow.  :huh:

I, uh... don't know what to say.

I do. And it's two words.

Spoiler

NOT CISCO!!!!!!!!  :whuh:




(By the way, Not Cisco and The Flash actually both trended on Twitter. Good to see a lot of people have gotten into this show.

[close]

Alright, this show just picked up big time. This episode is on a level of quality comparable to some of the best Arrow episodes, which is saying a lot. Here's to hoping that they manage to keep it up for the rest of the season. :thumbup:

And all it took was for the real Weather Wizard to show up.  ;)

In all seriousness, this episode changes everything. If they go back on anything it's gonna seem like a cheat, but I doubt they will.

It was great to see them flesh-out Deadshot's character, and Cupid actually made for a pretty good edition to the Suicide Squad.

As for the clash between Arrow and Atom, while it could've been handled better, I'm just glad that they got such a cliche and predictable plot point over with quickly, rather than dragging it out. Now that Olliver and Ray are on the same page, it'll be interesting to see them team up against The League. But first it looks like Olliver will need to deal with the Starling police force, and especially Detective Lance, turning against him after what the League has done in his name.

I'm hoping Lance doesn't stay mad at him for too long. He tends to get really petty when he's mad at someone. Though you would think with the amount of copycat archers in Starling City that they wouldn't be too quick to turn on him. But after the mayor has been attacked who knows what'll happen next?

Well, in Lance's case the copycat killings gives him an excuse to go after the Arrow again. The real reason that he wants to is because he blames him for Sara's death, so that's the real conflict at hand, here.

Poor Roy got thrown against the fence and then left there by Oliver. Speedy's always getting dumped on.

(https://41.media.tumblr.com/5b01c0403b8831c9695b174ef8232021/tumblr_n5oiwkDFmR1tzf9qco2_500.png)

Liar!

I think it's safe to say the Flash got awesome pretty fast. Season one has just been getting better and better.

Now we're understanding more and more about Thawne.

Anybody else watching these episodes? Because maaaaaaaan . . .

I loved Mark Hamill's performance. Probably the closest we'll ever get to him playing The Joker in real, but it was really fun to see. :thumbup:


Can't wait to see how they resolve Barry going to the past in the near future.

So, this was Mark Hamill's THIRD time portraying the Trickster. You can tell that he's pretty much an expert at it. ;)

It was also a really awesome nod to the 90's Flash TV series when The Trickster reunited with Barry's dad as they acted in a scene together, who's actor played The Flash of that show where Hamill was also the Trickster. :D

Mark Hamill was great in the role as usual. I like how Flash is able to weave villain of the week in with plot progression. Arrow did it too in the first season but it usually ended up being unbalanced.

Speaking of Arrow, Roy could be in serious trouble. But then, the Arrow operated while Roy was still walking around which means they might be able to prove he isn't the Green Arrow. Next week should be tense!

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on April 02, 2015, 08:24:00 PM
So, this was Mark Hamill's THIRD time portraying the Trickster. You can tell that he's pretty much an expert at it. ;)

It was also a really awesome nod to the 90's Flash TV series when The Trickster reunited with Barry's dad as they acted in a scene together, who's actor played The Flash of that show where Hamill was also the Trickster. :D

Whoa, wait a sec. The guy that played Flash in the 90s series is the current Flash's dad in this series?  :wth: Dang, I can't believe I never knew that! That's actually pretty cool.

Yep: http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0098798/

Also, Danny Bilson was a creator and writer for that show; who also happens still be supporting Itagaki and VGS in producing Devil's Third (albeit from an unofficial position), which is something that I fully expect Spark to acknowledge. ;)

Episodes like this are why I like The Flash so much. Good story and characters, fun storytelling, and a good sprinkle of plot progression.

So, looks like Flash is headed for the endgame. Only three episodes left and everything is being brought into the open.

Well, except for next week being Grodd time, anyway. That's going to be fun.

Man, this show just keeps getting better and better. Between this and Arrow, the next few weeks will be really intense and entertaining for comic book shows.

Wow, both episodes this week, though.

People who have jumped ship on Arrow are crazy. This was a thrill ride from start to finish.

I had a couple of issues with this week's episode of Arrow (which I may elaborate on later), but putting some gripes aside, it continues on the high road that this series has been riding, and personally I think that it's the best overall season of the show so far.

Only thing I'm going to miss on Arrow is Roy, but the way he left was actually extremely well done.

One thing I want to say about Arrow is that I hope next season's plot is less overpowering to the Arrowverse as this one has been. Slade in season 2 was great because he still left room for normal superhero episodes, which I always enjoy for character development, but we haven't really had any since Brick. As much as I like season 3, this plot feels like it's been going on longer than it has. Thankfully there's only three episodes left, but to be honest, I'm looking forward to Flash's season finale more at this point.

Well, that episode was boring.

At least the Flash was pretty good this week.

I really can't stand Iris. Like, she's more grating than ever. I have no idea what the writers are thinking with that character. Otherwise, this was a decent episode of The Flash this week. Not great.

I still need to watch Arrow's episode, which I'll probably get around to tomorrow.

Yeah, I just don't know what they're trying to do with her. She's still a Mary Sue at this point, and I really hope it changes soon.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--Vkn4xuyo--%2Fc_fit%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_80%2Cw_320%2Fzfmvx6msczi2pdowvpkn.gif&hash=db54996a8ff133019e7b61ace5c400f8276e16d7)

I just saw this week's Arrow episode. It's a very good character episode, and personally I was much more invested in it than this week's Flash episode. I can't wait to see the finale next week.

Legends of Tomorrow on the way. (http://tvline.com/2015/05/07/the-cw-new-series-fall-2015-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow/)

I can't believe Booster Gold isn't there. I would have flipped.

One thing I'm a bit confused with. Next week's episode of The Flash contains a guest star that . . . uh, I don't quite understand can be there continuity-wise. Considering what's currently going on in Arrow, I don't get how he can be there.

Maybe the timelines based on air dates are out of sync.

Well there is one episode left of Arrow and two left for Flash, so I guess so. It's just odd.

.... Oh god, it looks worse than I could have ever imagined. To put things into perspective, it's just one trailer and I already hate it more than "Agents of SHIELD".
https://youtu.be/X4bF_quwNtw

That bit at the beginning about the movie star who sold her soul to him. Ahem, this is the Lucifer this show is based on:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F41.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m78uk3ukW81qa5y6mo1_1280.jpg&hash=aabcc4a86e6be95ea53b958f51e42dd561ef1cd9)

I've never read the comic, and even I have to say that it looks like garbage. That has to be some of the most cringeworthy writing that I have ever seen. We're way past the 90's, so how are we still getting dialogue like that?

Anyways, after Got Ham, I wasn't expecting anything good from FOX TV, so I'm not even going to bother giving this show a chance. I'm just going to ignore it.

I'll stick with the Arrowverse shows, thanks.

Speaking of which, I'm pretty interested in Vixen.

That was the best episode of The Flash so far. It had about everything I like about the show in this one episode.

Also next week looks like it might go a different route than I thought it might.

Really pleased with this show in just one season.

And that's season 3. I'm really wondering how they're going to proceed with season 4 after this, but there is many ways they can go with it.

I'm sure we'll be seeing the Green Arrow soon.

Sorry for the triple post, but I found a promo image for Legends of Tomorrow:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comicbookresources.com%2Fimgsrv%2Fimglib%2F625%2F0%2F1%2Flegends-of-tomorrow-f563c.jpg&hash=e16a3554de6da75127b5a49a3769a91ead3ffe79)

Also a trailer has been shown off. (http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/trailers/440415-the-trailer-for-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-has-arrived#/slide/1)

I'm personally excited for this. They cobbled together a good cast (Captain Cold is so good, I don't care what anyone says) and a good concept that really interests me. The villain is even Vandal Savage! My only disappointment is a distinct lack of Booster Gold. He would have made this perfect.

Edit: There's also a new Supergirl trailer! (http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/trailers/440095-cbs-unleashes-an-extended-supergirl-trailer#/slide/1)

Personally, I think that this was the best season of Arrow so far. I loved the finale, and like any good lead-in to the next season, it really leaves you wondering just what the hell is going to happen based on how things ended up unexpectedly in this season finale.

I'm also looking forward to Legends of Tomorrow, myself.

I updated the first post with info on LoT and SG, but if anyone wants Gotham or whatever added, write it up and give it to me to post there. I personally just don't care enough about them to write anything but if you want it, just let me know and give me what you got.

As for season 3 of Arrow I liked it as a whole. I think I might have preferred the finale of season 2, but that doesn't make this one bad. I'm very curious as to where they'll go next since Oliver said he can't be Arrow anymore, but they can't change the show's title so I'm thinking he'll be Green Arrow. Either way, season 4 should be fun.

I liked the season 2 finale better, but felt that this one was a better overall season including the beginning and middle portions of it.

I'll be able to judge it better when I rewatch it again on DVD, but it was a good season overall. It felt like less of an ending and more of a next step sort of conclusion, which was different for a change.

I'll watch the Arrow finale later, but I have liked the season on a whole. I don't agree with most of the criticisms, and have genuinely enjoyed the arc as a whole.

But are Iris and Eddie finally over? I sure hope so. It's been clear since episode one that they weren't going to last, and the sooner we get away from the triangle, the better.

And I think that the Supergirl trailer is cute! A little silly, but considering how drab DC's work has been getting in recent years (even the Flash has been getting more serious as the season goes along, but I've been happy with most of the results), I think this can be a nice change of pace. I'll give it a try this fall myself.

You don't even need to ask if I'll get to Legends of the Fall.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 14, 2015, 12:45:05 PM
Sorry for the triple post, but I found a promo image for Legends of Tomorrow:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comicbookresources.com%2Fimgsrv%2Fimglib%2F625%2F0%2F1%2Flegends-of-tomorrow-f563c.jpg&hash=e16a3554de6da75127b5a49a3769a91ead3ffe79)

Also a trailer has been shown off. (http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/trailers/440415-the-trailer-for-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-has-arrived#/slide/1)

I'm personally excited for this. They cobbled together a good cast (Captain Cold is so good, I don't care what anyone says) and a good concept that really interests me. The villain is even Vandal Savage! My only disappointment is a distinct lack of Booster Gold. He would have made this perfect.

Edit: There's also a new Supergirl trailer! (http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/trailers/440095-cbs-unleashes-an-extended-supergirl-trailer#/slide/1)

Don't care what who says? The general consensus is that Cold is awesome.  :thumbup:

I dunno, I never hear anyone talk about him. But as much as I like Wells/Thawne, Cold was by far my favorite villain in the season. Cold and calculating, a real threat, and masterfully played by Wentworth Miller.

And now he's going to be the main character in a new show? Sold.

EDIT: Oh, and there's a new featurette in the link. Looks like they're going for a Daredevil style 13 episode season that's like one long movie. Should be interesting!

Has Captain Cold ever been a good guy in the comics?

I'm assuming that this is one of those cases where the adaptation just likes the actor and character so much that the writers just say "screw it, let's make him a series regular as a hero," which if that's the case, then I'm totally fine with it.

I'm assuming that Rip Hunter will be the leader, though, and that Atom will be his second in command.

Not quite sure how they're going to incorporate Firestorm into the show with only one half of him as a series regular, though, unless they'll only use him in episodes where Robbie Amell guest-stars (which kind of makes sense so that they can save some money on special effects).

On another note, while I really enjoyed Agent Carter and Daredevil, I think that it's safe to say that, IMO:

The CW's DC shows > Marvel's Live-Action shows (so far)

Well, the only good Marvel shows so far have been shorter season series. DC's have succeeded more on the general level.

And as far as I'm aware Captain Cold and Heatwave have never been good guys or even anti-heroes, so this is new ground for them both. Not to mention White Canary. I think this show is going to successfully push new layers onto their characters by pairing them up with unabashed good guys like Hawkgirl, Rip Hunter, and the Atom.

Nonetheless, I'm excited for it.

So what I'd like to see for Arrow season 4 (I'll do one for Flash next week):

Richard Dragon & the Question (Vic Sage) - The former trains the latter who would fit in perfectly in Arrow. Richard Dragon has already appeared in Green Arrow and even trained the Huntress. Both would fit in great in the Arrow universe. Note, I'm not referring to either reboot or alternate versions of either character, but the original version of each. The reboot versions do not compare to the originals.
Constantine Drakon - Like Brick, he would be a perfect fit for the show.
Connor Hawke - It's about time Oliver meets his son, no?
Onomatopoeia - Kevin Smith said he could never be done, but I think he could. The show has no shortage of insane villains. I know he was originally planned for the show until the producers saw what Smith said, but they should really consider trying it. I think it could be done.
The Outsiders War - It might just be my love of gang wars in superhero shows, martial arts, and weapon masters, but this story-line would be perfect for the show. While I don't know if it would have enough time to be set up for season 4, I think it could easily be built up to for season 5, or spill over both seasons. Because the show will get renewed to reach syndication and 100 episodes, I think they should go all out with it.
Slade - I'd personally like to see him as more of an anti-hero role again, but I doubt he'd have a major role so soon after season 2.
Diggle getting an alter-ego - I think he's earned one now.
More Brick - Seriously.
More Clock King - Same as above.
No Merlyn - I like the character, but I think he needs a break with the League of Assassins in general.
Another Flash crossover - We're getting this, but still. these are always so fun.
Oliver officially becoming the Green Arrow - The Flash took half a season to be the Flash. Four seasons is long enough for him to finally earn his original title.

Of course, maybe none of this happens and I'm pleasantly surprised regardless. The show certainly doesn't have to give me this for me to enjoy it. However, for a dream list of what I'd like to see, this is it.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 14, 2015, 03:01:48 PM

EDIT: Oh, and there's a new featurette in the link. Looks like they're going for a Daredevil style 13 episode season that's like one long movie. Should be interesting!

Really? Frickin' sweet!

Somehow I missed seeing this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1P7ujKw9yQ) before now.

Funny stuff.

Season 4 of Arrow will be "lighter", apparently. (http://comicbook.com/2015/05/15/arrow-season-4-will-take-a-lighter-tone/)

Quote"It will take a lighter tone. That's pretty much the only thing I say without spoiling it," Guggenheim said. "We've been working for about a month now in the writers' room, talking about Season Four, and I think that one thing we all collectively understood was Season Three beginning with Sara's death, because it's the death of a major character on the show, it set a tone for the remainder of the season. And I'm not the least bit apologetic for that tone. I happen to like dark and I like the fact that Arrow is a pretty dark show particularly for a network show. That said, every year you want to mix things up and there was sort of a collective desire on all of our parts to try to inject a little bit more lightness into the show, a little bit more humor. It's not going to radically change. The show's still going to be the show but in terms of tone we're coming off a very very hard season for all of our characters. We wanted to try to mix it up a little bit."

Fine with me as long as it remains good.

Though with next season about H.I.V.E. and being that they're the ones who killed Diggle's brother, I'm not sure how much "lighter" you can go.

If by "lighter" they mean something more along the lines of The Flash (just in terms of tone) with a good mix of both serious and fun episodes, then I'd be OK with that.

You've GOT to be kidding me. How could you end it like that!?

Spoiler

Okay, some final questions.

1 - If Eobard is dead and was never born, then why aren't Barry's mom and Professor Wells alive again?
2 - Why was Jay Garrick's helmet there? Is he active in this universe?
3 - Why did Rip Hunter give him a time travel machine?
4 - Why did Barry's future self tell him not interfere? Didn't his future self die in that battle or not?
5 - So why didn't the timeline change if everything Eobard did can no longer happen?
6 - What exactly are Cisco's powers and why didn't they awaken sooner?
7 - How do the Legends of Tomorrow figure in to this?
8 - Really Ollie, you're riding off into the sunset while the world gets destroyed?

[close]

Well, that was a season finale, alright. Matches the season 1 final of Arrow in "WHY WOULD YOU END IT THERE?" rage, but nothing a good season 2 won't cure. All in all, this was one of the best first seasons in recent memory so I can't wait to see where they go next.

Things I'd like to see in season 2:

1 - Jay Garrick, the original Flash. It's been established that powers existed before the accelerator explosion, so learning the original is floating around is a good idea. That helmet in the season finale hopefully meant something since that scared Eobard pretty good.
2 - Wally West, the original Kid Flash. Like Roy in Arrow, he doesn't need to be a superhero in his first season, but he should be established at least as a kid.
3 - Mirror Master, The Top, and Abra Kadabra. They are the only main Silver Age Flash villains and members of the Rogues yet to show up.
4 - More Trickster. Come on, you know you want more Mark Hamill.
5 - I would like to see Tar Pit and Double Down, but I think their powers would have to be modified a bit to fit in live action. They're a bit out there even for this show. On the other hand, I would think Rose and Thorn will definitely be used in some way as will Alan Scott. That's a connection too valuable to throw away.
6 - Come on. They're going to do Flashpoint. I know it. You know it. But if they do it, PLEASE let it be good and not garbage. This is an odd thing I want to see, I know. I just don't want Time Travel to take over the whole show. If this has to happen, please make it good.
7 - The Elongated Man. An obvious choice for an ally, and someone who would help add to the cast dynamic.
8 - This is obscure, but the original version of the Rival centered on Jay Garrick would be interesting. It's the only Reverse Flash character left that wouldn't feel like a retread of Eobard.

But like last time, they can do whatever they want and I'll still watch. Season 1 proved that they actually know what they're doing.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 19, 2015, 08:33:34 PM
You've GOT to be kidding me. How could you end it like that!?

Spoiler

Okay, some final questions.

1 - If Eobard is dead and was never born, then why aren't Barry's mom and Professor Wells alive again?
2 - Why was Jay Garrick's helmet there? Is he active in this universe?
3 - Why did Rip Hunter give him a time travel machine?
4 - Why did Barry's future self tell him not interfere? Didn't his future self die in that battle or not?
5 - So why didn't the timeline change if everything Eobard did can no longer happen?
6 - What exactly are Cisco's powers and why didn't they awaken sooner?
7 - How do the Legends of Tomorrow figure in to this?
8 - Really Ollie, you're riding off into the sunset while the world gets destroyed?

[close]

Well, that was a season finale, alright. Matches the season 1 final of Arrow in "WHY WOULD YOU END IT THERE?" rage, but nothing a good season 2 won't cure. All in all, this was one of the best first seasons in recent memory so I can't wait to see where they go next.

Things I'd like to see in season 2:

1 - Jay Garrick, the original Flash. It's been established that powers existed before the accelerator explosion, so learning the original is floating around is a good idea. That helmet in the season finale hopefully meant something since that scared Eobard pretty good.
2 - Wally West, the original Kid Flash. Like Roy in Arrow, he doesn't need to be a superhero in his first season, but he should be established at least as a kid.
3 - Mirror Master, The Top, and Abra Kadabra. They are the only main Silver Age Flash villains and members of the Rogues yet to show up.
4 - More Trickster. Come on, you know you want more Mark Hamill.
5 - I would like to see Tar Pit and Double Down, but I think their powers would have to be modified a bit to fit in live action. They're a bit out there even for this show. On the other hand, I would think Rose and Thorn will definitely be used in some way as will Alan Scott. That's a connection too valuable to throw away.
6 - Come on. They're going to do Flashpoint. I know it. You know it. But if they do it, PLEASE let it be good and not garbage. This is an odd thing I want to see, I know. I just don't want Time Travel to take over the whole show. If this has to happen, please make it good.
7 - The Elongated Man. An obvious choice for an ally, and someone who would help add to the cast dynamic.
8 - This is obscure, but the original version of the Rival centered on Jay Garrick would be interesting. It's the only Reverse Flash character left that wouldn't feel like a retread of Eobard.

But like last time, they can do whatever they want and I'll still watch. Season 1 proved that they actually know what they're doing.

I share some of your thoughts. The finale had some parts in it that I felt were weak. Mostly everything that happened with Edward and Eobard as you said. I did like that last fight they had, I just wish that last-second crossover with Arrow would have started off this episode instead of getting shoe horned into the penultimate episode. I will say though, I'm glad they started foreshadowing Cisco becoming Vibe. Also, while I did like Eddie, I cheered when he died because it meant Joe was going to live. I was really scared for the last several episodes he was going to be killed off in the finale, but thankfully he wasn't. I don't know that Joe will be alive by whenever the series finale happens in the future though. I agree that this was a tremendous first season and eagerly await Season Two.


What I like to see that hasn't been mentioned is Cisco becoming Vibe (pretty sure that's happening at least by the end), Felicity dropping in again, Iris as a reporter and not just be Barry's girlfriend, Firestorm facing members of his Rogues Gallery, and more of the Atom. I really loved Brandon Routh playing him, about as good as Wentworth Miller as Captain Cold.

Variety has a feature on Greg Berlanti's success. (http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/greg-berlanti-supergirl-the-flash-the-cw-cbs-1201499698/)

It's a success well earned.

QuoteHe wrote a script for a "Green Lantern" movie he'd hoped to direct back in 2010, but the studio ultimately went with another version, which disappointed at the box office.

Wow, the people in charge of DC's film division clearly aren't as knowledgeable as those in the TV one. Talk about a bad decision. I haven't seen his script, but it has to be better than what we got.

It was a good finale outside of the fact that it cheaply left us hanging on a cliffhanger. Say what you want about Arrow's finale (personally I enjoyed it despite some problems), but at least it actually wrapped up that story arc.

That said, this finale is both a perfect lead-in to season two as well as Legends of Tomorrow. I now have four shows in the same fictional Universe to be excited about, now: Arrow, The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, and Supergirl (and yes, despite being on a different channel, it's still confirmed to be part of the Flarrow-verse).

Yeah, I'm going to be watching a lot next season. With Person of Interest tacked on, that's 5 weekly dramas for me. I haven't kept up with that many shows, let alone dramas, in a long time.

As for the cliffhanger, it was exactly as crazy as Arrow's first season finale. I'm wondering if we should be expecting the same for LoT and Supergirl now. Is this a tradition?

Anyway, I'm good with it since I'm sure it'll lead to something even better.

10 Characters That Should Appear in Arrow Season 4 (http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-4-10-characters-we-want-to-appear.php)

They stole some of my ideas.

I really hope if Richard Dragon and Question show up that they are the original versions of those characters. We have enough martial arts inclined bad guys on the show, that it would be nice to have some good ones with Richard Dragon (possibly making Ollie a better fighter?), and then there's Vic Sage whose own path of being a hero is quite interesting in itself, plus he was trained by Richard Dragon, too.

The ones I don't want to see are Diggle becoming the Green Lantern (He's an original character, please don't turn him into John Stewart) and the Red Hood showing up. I also think Booster Gold hasn't shown up because of rights issues involved in another TV show the producers were making.

So, Zoom is the villain of season 2 and Jay Garrick shows up. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-LDsoE8m90) The hype for season 2 is off the chain.

On the other hand, I don't think Arrow got any sort of hint toward season 4 at Comic-Con. I wonder what's up with that?

Perhaps they are being more careful after they got a lot of flak for some of their story and character turns in season 3, which was very polarizing.

Seriously, though, am I the only one who finds most of the complants for that season to be ridiculous? It had some flaws, but when I see people complaining about good stuff like Oliver temporarily leaving the island for the flashbacks this season, or irrelevant stuff like how they didn't like Felicity temporarily hooking up with The Atom, I just have to groan. The former type of complaint is just lashing out at the show for doing new things, regardless of how well written it is. The latter complaint is representative of how obsessive fans get over romance sub-plots that I couldn't give two shits about.

Some recent Arrow articles I stumbled over.

Season 4 characters that need to die: (http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-4-10-characters-who-need-to-die.php)

Spoiler

9 - Roy Harper
8 - Count Vertigo
7 - Nyssa Al Ghul
6 - Malcolm Merlyn
5 - Lyla Michaels
4 - Thea Queen
3 - Laurel Lance
2 - Detective Lance
1 - Felicity Smoak

[close]

Season 4 characters that shouldn't die: (http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-4-10-characters-that-absolutely-cannot-die.php)

Spoiler

10. Nyssa al Ghul
9. Sara Lance
8. Quentin Lance
7. Laurel Lance
6. Oliver's Baby Mama
5. Baby Sara
4. Lyla Michaels
3. John Diggle
2. Thea Queen
1. Felicity Smoak

[close]

Putting aside the cross-over of many names (different writers and all), I really don't understand a lot of the season 3 hate. Because Felicity wasn't as good as she was in season 1 and 2 she should be killed off? Come on. Roy has left town and deserves a happy ending. Lyla is who anchors Diggle down as a character, and she's pretty cool herself. Killing off good characters to add drama and bring in more grimdark isn't going to make the show better.

On the other hand, I am pretty sick of Nyssa, Malcolm, and the league. I wouldn't mind taking a break from them for a few seasons. But killing them off? They're villains. Unless it's story-related, there's really no point randomly killing of villains. Especially when the hero is killing less and less.

I kind of want season 4 ASAP to stop the whining now.

Season 3 has its flaws, but fuck the whiners. It was still a good season.

So Movie Flash wants to do a "Flash of Two Worlds" with Show Flash. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o3JPcijaRFU)

Well, I wasn't expecting that... (http://www.usnews.com/news/entertainment/articles/2015/08/11/matt-ryan-resurrects-constantine-for-guest-spot-on-arrow)

I've heard that Constantine was a decent show, but not really a great one. But it's at least way better than the movie.

He's not The Question or Richard Dragon, but sure, okay.

I watched about half of the show while it was still airing and dropped it at the mid-season. The show itself was really mundane, IMO, but for what it's worth, Matt Ryan actually seemed to fit the role of the character just fine.

This is interesting, for sure. (http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Flash-DC-Comics-Starter-Pack/21445)

I won't lie, I haven't had a whole lot of desire to collect Arrow or Flash, and I'm still not very interested in Gotham, but this looks somewhat enticing regardless.

You know what the deal breaker is in that package, for me? Got Ham. I'd rather buy a package with just the two good shows for the same price rather than own Got Ham. I don't like to own garbage, even if it's part of a set.

Hell, I would've even settled for Constantine over Got Ham, and I didn't even care for that show, either.

$153.00 for only the first seasons of three different shows, one of which isn't any good, and that's the price for the dvd set to boot? If I wanted to, I could just get the first seasons of Arrow and Flash separately on blu-ray off of Amazon for around $60 together. Yeah, I think I'll stick to just watching these on Netflix and Hulu for now, thank you.

No desire for Flotsam, and I have Arrow season 1 (which works much better when you watch it on DVD in mini-marathons, by the way) so this isn't for me.

Not a bad idea, though.

Yeah, the price is a turn-off, but I don't see it sticking around for that long. Every other week, you can get the Arrow sets on sale for around $20, even on Blu.

For like $50, I'd get this out of curiosity. Otherwise yeah, this would be a pass.

Oh, I didn't even notice the price. That's nuts.

I saw both seasons of Arrow on DVD available at Wal-Mart for $16 each. The Blu-Rays were $24 each. If you bought both seasons of Arrow and figure that The Flash will probably retail for around  $40 when it initially releases, you could buy three good seasons of television for well under $100, so the pricing of this BD box-set makes absolutely no sense.

Or for the same price you could preorder the complete series set of Justified.

They should have tried a bit harder on the price.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 20, 2015, 03:13:52 PM
Or for the same price you could preorder the complete series set of Justified.

They should have tried a bit harder on the price.

And for $50 less than that triple pack, you can get the complete series of The Wire on Blu-ray!

Arrow Season 4 trailer! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EGda9EbZgc)

Damian Dahrk looks like a real contrast to where Ollie currently is. He reminds me of Blood, except not even bothering to hide what his intentions are. And considering everything that has happened to the city since Merlyn nearly leveled it, I can understand the populace being frustrated about it. I do like that Oliver (of all people) seems like the one with the sunniest personality here, which should hopefully blend in with the new Green Arrow persona this season will have.

Now to wait for the Flash and Supergirl trailers.

There was a Constantine cameo in there as well. Now that I think about it, since we already know that Sara is getting resurrected before Legends of Tomorrow, it's pretty obvious what he'll be (presumably) helping Team Arrow with in his crossover appearance.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1331.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw594%2FJamesGrec3%2FArrow_zpsgp55yp9z.png&hash=00f24fa1c74eb34a1b42632ab9cd3e465a89ac5d)

Excited.

I've been watching season 3 of Arrow again on DVD and so far I think the criticism is not only entirely overblown, but nearly unjustified.

I say "nearly", because I'm only a bit over halfway through the season and most of the complaints have yet to show up yet.

People who hated season 3, really should rewatch it. They've apparently missed a lot of good stuff.

Yeah, I never agreed with most of the criticisms. For example, some people complained about the flashbacks leaving the island just because it was different than what we were used to, but I loved that it expanded on Oliver's character and rich history.

It's not a perfect season by any means. It does get a bit too soap-opera-ish at times, but it has a lot of great episodes in it as well.

Everything up to the point of Ra's wanting to make Oliver take his place is pretty great. I'll probably do a top ten episode list when I'm done watching, but I can say a few things up to Nanda Parbat (the episode where The Atom first appears) which I think a lot of people have forgotten.

1. The standalone episodes are some of the best in the series. They all contain great moments of character building, action, and great usage of DC properties (Brother Eye!) that handily beat any of the previous ones.
2. The crossover. It's been said before, but the crossover between Arrow and The Flash was a great way to both give Barry a better understanding of how serious his job was and to give Oliver a better understanding of the person he isn't anymore.
3. Felicity is not a Mary Sue. Now, this does happen a few times in the last few episodes (which, if I remember right, was my least favorite part of the season), but she makes mistakes and has to deal with them like everyone else.
4. The Brick arc. I've heard people say this was pointless because it didn't lead anywhere. They clearly didn't watch it. I actually wish it was longer, as I think this is my favorite part of the season. This was about the team realizing that they weren't in this mission just for Oliver anymore. That the world goes on without The Arrow and the bad guys will not stop coming. For Diggle, Felicity, Roy, and even Laurel, these were excellent episodes establishing them as no longer Oliver's sidekicks, but full fledged heroes of their own. When Oliver gets back, he has to deal with the change, and it's quite startling.
5. Wildcat. He was underused, yes. He disappears after the Brick arc and is hardly mentioned again. But he not only helped Laurel train to become a better fighter, but had an interesting past of his own that was fleshed out pretty well. Of all the side characters, he was one of the best.
6. Ray Palmer. I know most of the complaints center on him being Felicity's boyfriend, but here's the thing: that doesn't happen until 16 episodes into the season. Before then he was the smart, charismatic guy with a strange project under his hat.
7. Merlyn's past. This ties in to the end of the Brick arc, but it is an absolutely fantastic episode. While I got tired of the character (and the whole league) by the end of the season, this was pretty much his peak.
8. The flashbacks continue Oliver's descent. I think people forgot the point of the flashbacks was to establish the character Oliver was by the start of season 1. In case nobody remembers, that wasn't a very good guy who got off the island. The only real change to this flashback compared to the others is that it's not as clear-cut as to how it relates to the present day storyline. How it relates is that the theme of the season is Oliver finding out just who he is and what he is capable of which is why torture and murder are brought up so much in flashbacks and in the present and why Oliver loses his identity as The Arrow to become Ra's. In the Hong Kong flashback we see Oliver getting military training and learning once and for all that he can't be the person who left on the boat again. The theme of the season is as solid as the ones in the first two season. It just isn't as overt.
9. Thea goes through a lot and changes more than any other character. While before she was basically the "normal" member of the family, here she has to choose between Merlyn and Oliver as to how she progresses with her life and the choice isn't always clear-cut. Her character arc is a lot better than you hear about from people who hated the season.
10. Roy really was underused. This is a bit sad because the episodes where he is in focus are some of the strongest in the season. But as we get more and more focus on the league, he has less and less to do. Really, Nyssa does more than he does by the end of the season and she's a fairly one-note character. It's a shame that the actor left the show, but I can't really blame him there. That said, when he was used, he was used really well. As Red Arrow/Arsenal he was a perfect fit for Oliver's partner in combat and the Brick arc showed he could be every bit as good as him given the chance.

I still have some episodes to go (including the awesome Suicide Squad episode), but I think a lot of the complaints center on the fact that the last few episodes of the season are very slow and that they had to wait so long between episodes where very little occurred. I think watching them over in succession on DVD will give people a better impression of the whole season.

Season 4 should be exciting if they apply what they learned here.

Win an Arrow Funko prize pack, just by answering a survey! (http://funkollc.polldaddy.com/s/arrowprizepack)

It's a really quick and easy one too, so it's worth hitting up!

Friendly reminder that season 2 of The Flash and season 4 of Arrow are starting this week!

In celebration, here are my top 10 episodes of Arrow season 3:


10 - "Suicidal Tendencies" (Episode 17)

This episode has two stories that intersect quite well. The first involves the Suicide Squad and Deadshot coming round as a character full circle from where he started and the second involves The Atom and The Arrow coming into direct conflict over the best way to be a hero. I find this episode is very underrated since none of the whiners complaints for this season are in this episode at all. It's classic Arrow through and through and the ending is one of the best. Suffice to say it was basically the last standalone episode in the season, which is a shame because the standalone episode in season 3 were quite excellent as a whole. We could have used more of them.


9 - "The Calm" (Episode 1)

This is the premiere, and what a premiere it was! Not only was the set up for season 3 very elaborate, it was all laid in this episode. But even though it is all set up, it is extremely entertaining. We meet Ray Palmer, a bomb threat is dismantled, and Sara comes back. And then there's that ending. I'm pretty sure no one saw that coming.


8. "My Name Is Oliver Queen" (Episode 23)

Yes, this is the season finale, and yes, it's low here. I'll admit that the main storyline of season 3 is not as strong as the one from season 2. It gets very repetitive by the end ("I lied to protect you", "You're trusting Merlyn?", "This is a bad idea, Oliver") where basically almost every scene includes talking heads in either Thea's apartment, Oliver's lair, or Nanda Parbat. This wouldn't be so bad if there was more happening, but it's basically a lot of arguing with very little getting done. The finale is where things finally get done. Ra's gets unchained from the plot, Oliver gets to stop playing around, and Lance finally loses his character regression long enough to do something positive. Then there's Thea finally reaching the potential we all knew she had. It's a great finale to a story that could have been better, but is certainly no disaster like that one season of Angel or disappointment like Buffy season 4. It was a good story all told.


7. "Left Behind" (Episode 10)

The Brick arc is my favorite part of season 3. The Arrow is missing and Danny Brickwell is in town messing everything up. Team Arrow bands together to take him on while wondering both if Oliver is dead and to see what they're doing this all for. Laurel begins her move to take the Black Canary mantle, Felicity tries to hold herself together, and Dig and Roy almost kill themselves to stop the bad guys. A lot happens in these episodes that really push the other characters up a notch.


6. "Uprising" (Episode 12)

This is the conclusion of the Brick arc and it's a great ending unexpectedly throwing Merlyn into the mix and showing us just how he ended up the way he is. A full on gang war with just about everyone happens here just in time for Oliver's return with Brick's capture and to talk some humanity into Merlyn. This is an excellent conclusion to this underrated arc that solidifies the supporting cast as just as worth following as Oliver is.


5 - "Guilty" (Episode 6)

For such a new character, Ted Grant gets a great episode to himself that also parallels excellently with Roy. At this point Roy has done a lot of good, but still can't get past his mistakes at the same time Ted can't quite escape what he did as Wildcat and what his own sidekick was responsible for. This is really the only episode either Wildcat or Red Arrow get this season for character development, but it was one of the best, also solidifying the fact that Oliver trusting Roy was not a mistake and that he actually saved his life. This comes into play later on in the season, but it is a great moment right here.


4. "The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak" (Episode 5)

Probably the single most underrated episode in the season and featuring a new concept for a classic DC villain in Brother Eye, this episode fleshes out Felicity to such a great extent that you really feel like you totally understand where she came from and why she is who she is. I can't say too much about it that wouldn't be gushing about the action scenes, the direction, and the great writing, except to say that this is one of the best episodes of Arrow ever. People who call season 3 garbage need to watch this episode and learn how little they remember from it.


3. "The Brave and the Bold" (Episode 8)

The Flash/Arrow crossover was one of the highlights of both shows. Not only was it fun to see both casts interact with each other, but there were a lot of thematic crossovers as well with Barry learning more about how serious his job was and Oliver learning the line is no longer as blurred as it once was. He isn't the vigilante anymore and can't go back there again. Cross that with Captain Boomerang and some great action sequences and you have one of the best episodes of the series.


2. "The Climb" (Episode 9)

This episode just gets everything right. The title being about Oliver's climb ever since he was stranded on that island and everything that he has been building up to. At the same time his world begins crumbling with the truth about who killed Sara and what really happened to Thea. The episode perfectly establishes Ra's as a threat not only to The Arrow but to everything Oliver stands for. The fact that he is killed and falls back down the mountain excellently sums up everything that happened so far in the season. The only fault with this episode is that the main storyline never reaches this height again. It's a bit of a shame, but that doesn't dilute how good this episode are.


1. "Midnight City" (Episode 11)

This might seem like a random choice for my favorite episode of the season, but here we are. The middle of the Brick arc fully establishes everything from the first episode with Oliver missing, but this is the episode where the team resolves to finally stay together, not just for Oliver but for themselves and their city as well. There are also some really strong turns for the main story in this episode that all turned out to be good moves including the flashback to Hong Kong. All in all, this is simply the best episode in the season.


And those are my picks. Can't wait for the new season to see if they manage to top the last season. I have faith that they can do it.

Wow, okay.

Spoiler

Ronnie's dead, Barry's dad is out of jail, Zoom is on the horizon, and Jay Garrick has appeared.

[close]

Doesn't look like season two is going to slow down the pace.

And in Arrow it looks like

Spoiler

someone else is going to die.

[close]

Very good start to both seasons. I'm glad we FINALLY have the Green Arrow.

Both were really strong premieres. My only major issue is that Arrow revealed to us that someone major would die....:srs:

Just....why? Wouldn't that be so much more effective if it came as a total shock to us? There's foreshadowing and build-up, which is great. Then there's straight up spoiling it for us, removing a lot of the dramatic tension. This is the latter.

I think it's supposed to keep you guessing who will die and when they will die. Of course, it could also be some elaborate fake-out.

Don't really think it was needed, though.

And we can't get a Superman movie that looks anything like that, why?

Seriously, very good first episode. It's very clearly got that Arrow and Flash touch to it.

I'm watching Supergirl now, and it's pretty good thus far. Not without its problems, like a too obnoxiously-aggressive boss, and some iffy performances from the supporting characters.

Kara is great, though, and I already like her character. I'm definitely going to stick around for this.

I'll be perfectly honest, I'm not really feeling Supergirl, going by the premiere. There's certainly potential, here, but at least half of the supporting actors suck, hard, and the writing seems more along the lines of your standard network-fare, like Gotham, which is certainly not a good thing.

On the plus side, I find that, despite a shaky start, Kara's actress has the chops to grow into the character, and Jimmy Olson is a decent supporting character, as well. I also like how this series isn't at all shy about getting straight into the whole Kryptonian mythology right from the start, so that leaves all sorts of possibilities open for great future story-lines.

As of now, though, the writing and acting are in dire need of improvement. Watching this back-to-back with The Flash and Arrow highlighted just how much better those shows are than more typical network television, and it's a level of quality that Supergirl should strive for, as a show.

On another note, The Flash was really good this week,  but Arrow was fantastic. I can't wait for the next episode. While I didn't care for Constantine as a show, I did really like the character himself and the guy who played him. I'm glad that they at least managed to save him and integrate him into the Flarrow-verse.

The most important thing about this week's episode is the foreshadowing for Wally West's arrival.

But it and Arrow have been off to a good start so far. I do agree that Supergirl isn't on their level yet, but I'm optimistic enough to stick around.

When it comes to Supergirl, you also have to remember that it was the first episode. None of the DC shows have had an amazing first episode yet. I'd wait a few to see how good it will or won't be, but I do agree that it wasn't amazing much more than it was just enjoyable.

Like I said, there's definitely potential with it, so I'll be sticking around.

Season 4 of Arrow is great so far. Both Constantine and HIVE have been great additions so far, but man, Laurel has been at her worst these last few episodes. I'm not even a hater of the character, but she really was pretty unbearable during this whole Sara fiasco.

That's one strange thing about Arrow and The Flash. Whenever one show is doing better with something, the other seems to be doing worse. With Arrow, Laurel's character is really aggravating right now. But having really hated Iris during season 1 of The Flash, I've found that the writers listened to criticisms and are actually improving her character for this season.

Anyways, it was great to see Matt Ryan return as Constantine. Like I said, the show itself was sub-par, but his portrayal of the character was great, and this crossover episode was better than any given episode of the actual show that he starred in. It just goes to prove that he could make for a great character if given good material to work with in the first place. I REALLY hope that they can bring him back again and make him a permanent supporting character in the Flarrow-Verse. I understand that they can't do that so soon, but personally I think that he'd make a great addition to the crew for Legends of Tomorrow if that ever gets future seasons.

I also appreciate how they used his theme music from the NBC series.

Never having seen Constantine, I thought that his appearance was solid, and he had good chemistry with Oliver, probably better than some of the main cast even. I'd totally be down to see more of him on the show.

He probably won't be featured at any point later in this season since he was only contracted for this one episode, and he's also apparently working on a Broadway play,  currently, so he's probably got his hands full. That said, I've heard that he's expressed interest in continuing the role based on various interviews, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the showrunners bring him back for future season appearances.

Well.

Spoiler

Barry got the stuffing knocked out of him and nearly broken in half. What in the world is Zoom made of, anyway?

[close]

I'm wondering if this version of Zoom has some flavor of The Rival in him from the comics. Some of his lines seemed to hint at some relation to it.

Did anyone notice The Arrow's entire Earth 2 history was just parsed out in a flashback to Harrison Wells before his daughter was kidnapped? That was really clever. I wonder if they'll do anything else with it.

CBS is swapping episodes of Supergirl out. (http://comicbook.com/2015/11/15/supergirl-episodes-shuffled-due-to-paris-attacks/)

Well, technically, since the episode meant to air tomorrow isn't scheduled to air at another time yet. But hey, Livewire will be in this episode! That's okay.

That Livewire episode was the best one so far. Cat Grant is definitely up there as one of my favorite Arrowverse characters.

In other news, the CW's ratings are at an all-time high (https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/flash-turned-cw-ratings-contender-tuesdays-164407007.html):

QuoteThe CW outran Fox and ABC in the Nov. 10 ratings race, scoring a third-place finish among English-language broadcasters in the advertiser-coveted 18-49 demographic. For most of the other networks, that would mean room for improvement. For the CW, it represented a historic high. The network had not finished above fourth place on a night in which all the English-language broadcasters aired only original episodes since 2008.

Whether it can duplicate the feat Tuesday night will depend on whether its strongest show can maintain its momentum and how well its competitors can recover after stumbling in the first months of the season.

The CW's isn't built to challenge the Big Four on a nightly basis. Its primary focus for advertisers has been on the 18-34 demo; its business model is based largely on a lucrative licensing deal with Netflix. But it leaped to the middle of the pack for one night last week thanks to its hottest and most consistent performer: "The Flash."

From the time it premiered in 2014, "The Flash" has been the highest rated show in the CW's nine-year history. On Nov. 10, the DC superhero show drew a 1.5 live-plus-same day rating among viewers 18-49, good enough to finish third in the 8 p.m. time period behind NBC's "The Voice" and CBS' "NCIS."

More importantly, it was the fifth highest rated show of the evening out of 14 broadcast episodes. No Fox or ABC show outperformed "The Flash."

Not bad.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 19, 2015, 10:48:41 AM
That Livewire episode was the best one so far. Cat Grant is definitely up there as one of my favorite Arrowverse characters.

In other news, the CW's ratings are at an all-time high (https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/flash-turned-cw-ratings-contender-tuesdays-164407007.html):

QuoteThe CW outran Fox and ABC in the Nov. 10 ratings race, scoring a third-place finish among English-language broadcasters in the advertiser-coveted 18-49 demographic. For most of the other networks, that would mean room for improvement. For the CW, it represented a historic high. The network had not finished above fourth place on a night in which all the English-language broadcasters aired only original episodes since 2008.

Whether it can duplicate the feat Tuesday night will depend on whether its strongest show can maintain its momentum and how well its competitors can recover after stumbling in the first months of the season.

The CW's isn't built to challenge the Big Four on a nightly basis. Its primary focus for advertisers has been on the 18-34 demo; its business model is based largely on a lucrative licensing deal with Netflix. But it leaped to the middle of the pack for one night last week thanks to its hottest and most consistent performer: "The Flash."

From the time it premiered in 2014, "The Flash" has been the highest rated show in the CW's nine-year history. On Nov. 10, the DC superhero show drew a 1.5 live-plus-same day rating among viewers 18-49, good enough to finish third in the 8 p.m. time period behind NBC's "The Voice" and CBS' "NCIS."

More importantly, it was the fifth highest rated show of the evening out of 14 broadcast episodes. No Fox or ABC show outperformed "The Flash."

Not bad.

Not surprised, Flash and Arrow have been CW's best shows in years, and they aren't melodramatic ABC Family teen drama knock-offs that Dawn Ostroff dumped on them (TMC is still a nimrod but he was correct about how stupid that woman was). This is still great news to hear.

It also helps that they essentially have no competition from other TV networks.

Constantine was canceled by NBC and they got the rights to the character. Supergirl is a CBS show, but it's not competition since it's by the same production company and set in the same fictional Universe, hence it has a different air date that doesn't conflict with either of the CW shows. And then there's FOX's Gotham and ABC's Agents of SHIELD, both of which are absolute jokes, and FOX's Lucifer looks like garbage as well. The only other network show worth a damn is Agent Carter, which is actually great thanks to Kevin Feige's direct involvement, but it airs during the break-time of all of the other big comic book shows, so once again, it's not direct competition for the CW shows.

And of course the Netflix Marvel shows are their own thing and by nature don't directly compete with any network shows.

So, yeah, I don't see anything dethroning Arrow or The Flash anytime soon.

I don't think Gotham is bad, just goofy at times. It is way better than Agents of Shield though.



Is Supergirl really in Arrow and Flash's universe? Almost everywhere I heard elseware said it wasn't. I'd love for it to be though, because I'm not sure how the Batman/Superman film is going to go so its nice having a mostly well done TV universe.

"In November 2014, Berlanti expressed interest in Supergirl existing in the Arrowverse, the same universe as his other series Arrow and The Flash."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergirl_(U.S._TV_series)#Relation_to_the_Arrowverse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergirl_(U.S._TV_series)#Relation_to_the_Arrowverse)

It was also originally pitched to The CW who didn't pick it up and has a lot of familiar faces who work on the other Arrowverse shows. For all intents and purposes it's related even if they can't crossover at this point in time.

New Legends of Tomorrow trailer:

https://youtu.be/_rgzmQ_vpSo

In the battle between TV superhero shows, DC is definitely not slacking off against Marvel's efforts.

This crossover series looks great, and it's the first series of its kind, even before The Defenders comes out. I can't wait.

Wow, that looks like a lot of fun. We still got a ways to go before it starts, though.

Well, it's less than two months away, and this week's Flash/Arrow crossover event is already setting up Vandal Savage as the main villain, so it's really not that far off from my point of view. ;)

A bit of a history of how the Arrowverse came to be on the network side. (http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/the-cw-warner-bros-dc-the-flash-arrow-1201646970/)

QuoteSoon after Kevin Tsujihara took over as Warner Bros. chairman-CEO, he made the decision to break with protocol from the previous regime — a change that would have a profound effect on the studio. At an early strategy session, senior execs recall him issuing a new edict: DC Entertainment is open for business across the lot.

Tsujihara made it clear that the vast archive of comic-book characters in the DC vault would no longer be under the tight control of Warner Bros.' film division. WB's television and interactive units would have new flexibility to develop projects derived from the properties, even if they were concurrently being eyed for movie projects.

This might explain why the film division has always had this weird arrogance about them the TV division doesn't.

QuoteIn 2009, Warner Bros. restructured DC Comics to create DC Entertainment — in a comic-book-worthy twist of fate, the same week Disney announced its stealth $4 billion purchase of Marvel Entertainment. The goal was to turn DC, now led by Nelson, a respected studio marketing vet who made her mark shepherding the "Harry Potter" film franchise, into a "feeder" of source material for all WB divisions, while maintaining a big presence in comic-book publishing. In practice, however, because Nelson reported to then Warner Bros. Pictures chief Jeff Robinov, the focus remained highly film-centric.

That pecking order had been set a decade earlier, in 1999, sources say, when the WB Network (now the CW) was hot on a "Batman" prequel script from writer Tim McCanlies that revolved around the youthful adventures of Bruce Wayne. The project was shut down before it got to the pilot production stage after WB Pictures execs got wind of it, and worried that it would muck up their plans to revive "Batman" on the big screen. The WB Network was allowed to pursue a similar concept for Superman, which yielded the 10-year success of "Smallville," but the earlier sting lingered.

Not to mention how stupid they were with the whole Bat embargo mess. DC has been a mess of bureaucracy for a while now.

QuoteWith DC's vault opened wide, Nelson and Johns, DC Entertainment's chief creative officer, are working with the film team to plot an ambitious schedule of 10 films to be released over the next five years. At the same time, the WBTV team has put numerous projects into development, including "The Flash" for the CW. That would never have happened in the past, because "Flash" is also on the docket for a feature film in 2018.

Inside of two years, Warner Bros. TV now has seven (and counting) primetime series derived from the comic-book imprints of DC and its subsidiary, Vertigo. Last year, the TV studio finally got its "Batman" prequel in the form of Fox's "Gotham," although the focus shifted from Bruce Wayne to Commissioner Gordon and Gotham City's villains. Sources described that creative fillip as a sign of compromise between WB divisions as the film side tees up "Batman v Superman" next year.

Though Gotham hasn't been very good, it still has been a success.

QuotePerhaps the biggest impact of the DC properties has been on the CW. "The Flash" and "Arrow" have become the backbone of a network that had been flagging and rudderless. CW also airs the femme-friendly "iZombie," and has "DC's Legends of Tomorrow" on tap for midseason. The appeal of these DC shows help CW maintain the SVOD output deals with Netflix and Hulu that have been crucial to its survival.

After "The Flash" premiered last fall to CW's highest ratings in more than five years, Berlanti got a call at his WB office asking him to stop in to see Tsujihara in the executive office building. "That was the first time that ever happened to me," Berlanti says. The producer made sure he brought along a few prototypes of "The Flash"-derived action figures that Consumer Products was about to unleash.

There it is. The Arrowverse saved The CW.

Read the whole thing. It's pretty good.

Hey Spark, did you notice that cover of "Time After Time" in the background of this week's Supergirl?

The show is continuing to be enjoyable, if a little superfluous thus far. If anything, I'm not sure how I feel about its frequent references to Kara's cousin and his own escapades, though. Sometimes they come off as a little forced, like anytime Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. brought up the incident in New York.

Yes, I did. I kept thinking to myself "I know I've heard that song before" through the whole scene until it finally clicked. Not a bad cover.

I think what Supergirl needs is a rival superhero in her city to take the focus off of Superman in Metropolis as comparison. Mostly because I think it's one of the few things that need ironing out soon. The show is getting better with every episode, though.

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/qzpi5nyhcl6z4wigvxaw.gif)

Kevin Tsujihara. So that's the name of the mastermind we have to thank for the DC TV Universe. It'd me nice if Arrow and CW's success got this guy promoted so he could open even more doors for both Warner and DC. This is the kind of person that should be running Time Warner, not a blind selfish halfwit like Jeff Bewkes.




Anyway, I haven been behind on Flash with only having seen the first new episode of the second season. Unfortunately, neither On Demand or CW's website have episodes 2-4. :( This really sucks, I don't know why they have pull these episodes out so dang quickly.

That was a lot of crossover.

Green Arrow
The Flash
Diggle
Speedy
Hawkman
Hawkgirl
Felicity
Cisco
Vandal Savage
Ra's and the League
Damien Darhk and HIVE

And in Central City was:

Caitlin
Harrison Wells
Joe
Jay Garrick

I think the only missing main characters were Laurel, Sara, and Ray.

Pretty action packed, too. Though a pretty anti-climactic ending if you're not planning on watching Arrow. They definitely spill over into each other.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tvinsider.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fdc-legends-of-tomorrow.jpg&hash=bd16c69ff5af8bb070d59c46c37496e7db5d0ca7)

Hyped!

Okay, now who saw that coming?

Spoiler

The Martian Manhunter. Now that was a killer twist.

[close]

There was a new ep of Supergirl on tonight, though there won't be one next week. Weird timing on that. It was a pretty good ep, too. Lots going on.

Anyone think the Berlantiverse might get stretched a bit too thin in the near future? With Flash, Arrow, Legends of Tomorrow, unofficial-but-everyone-treats-it-like-part-of-the-rest Supergirl, and talks of realizing a full Vixen series, how much micromanaging can Berlanti, Kreisberg, and Guggenheim do without the quality being compromised?

That said, I'm excited for LoT, if only to see Arthur Darvill play a time-traveler again.

It definitely can be stretched too far if they just haphazardly throw shows out there. I was kind of hoping for Vixen to be a full length animated series since we currently have none in the Arrowverse but it is different enough to fit in.

But yes, we don't need any new shows right now. There's enough to keep up with that any more would be overwhelming to keep up with.

It's always possible for one's resources to be stretched too thin, but keep two things in mind:

-Berlanti isn't dividing all of these projects up among just a single team. New writers, producers, directors, and staff are hired for each project, with each show's production team occasionally communicating with each other to stay on the same page.

-Berlanti's production company has been pacing itself in regard to releases. Arrow came out in 2012, The Flash in 2014, Supergirl in 2015, and Legends of Tomorrow just this year (which has a shorter season length than the other shows). One new show a year seems pretty manageable, especially when you consider that Marvel released three new shows last year alone and still had them all turn out fine.

As for Vixen, they are only discussing the possibility of a show right now (which I hope stays animated if they decide to go through with it). Nothing has been confirmed yet, so even if it does come out, it certainly won't be for a while.

Potential LoT spoiler:

Spoiler

Jonah Hex will be showing up. (http://tvline.com/2016/01/19/legends-of-tomorrow-cast-jonah-hex-johnathon-schaech/)

[close]

So that was awesome. Of all the DC shows so far LoT has had the best premiere by far. It has a big cast, but they all mesh together really well and all have something different to contribute. I really can't wait to see where this goes next, the possibilities are endless for a premise like this.

This feels like DC meets Dr. Who, which is a surprisingly awesome combination.

Really great premiere. The best that I've seen from any comic book show, Marvel, DC, or otherwise, for that matter.

I'll check out the premiere later, I really wish I could get caught up to Flash though. I'm only five epeisodes behind but Comcast has to be screwy with how long they allow reruns in their system. :(

I thought it was pretty fun. Heatwave and Cold remind me of Jayne from Firefly, which will be further driven thanks to actors from that show appearing in the future. I haven't watched much of Arrow yet, so White Canary was the only one I had no prior knowledge of, but she seems interesting. What was more interesting was hearing Ray Palmer's lines about insignificance and interpreting that as a meta-commentary on Brandon Routh's prior performance as a superhero being dwarfed by others. His dialogue wouldn't have felt as powerful if it came from another actor. Also, they really need to get Rip Hunter to meet Dinah and Malcolm Merlyn just to take advantage of all the Who allusions.

Since you brought it up, I do find it a bit odd that they didn't bring up White Canary's (Sara Lance) bloodlust in this premiere. She had to retire from fighting on Arrow because she couldn't control her urges to kill, and that plot point was never resolved on that show, so it's a bit odd that it wasn't addressed here, but maybe it'll come up in a future episode.

What amazes the most about Flash is how they made Captain Cold so fun to watch. If you told me over a year ago that Captain Cold would become a great villain, I'd laugh in your face.

Heatwave is really growing on me. He was pretty one note in The Flash, but he's quickly coming into his own here. He hasn't gone off about fire once.

Second part of the pilot was just as great as the first. This show is pretty much exactly what I've wanted to see done in a superhero show for as long as I can remember. I'm really digging the whole cast and the vibe of the show.

Heat Wave is easily the character that I cared the least about going into this show. I always just found him to be disposable fodder that served as an occasional sidekick to Captain Cold during his appearances on The Flash. This show has done a lot to change my opinion about the character in just two episodes. In fact, here's how I rank the roster thus far (I fully expect this to change by the end of the season):

1. Leonard Snart (Captain Cold)
2. Martin Stein (1/2 of Firestorm)
3. Rip Hunter
4. Mick Rory (Heat Wave)
5. Sara Lance (White Canary)
6. Ray Palmer (Atom)
7. Kendra Saunders (Hawkgirl)
8. Jefferson Jackson (the other 1/2 of Firestorm)
9. Carter Hall (Hawkman)

What amazes me about this show so far is that, despite a large ensemble cast, not a single regular comes off to me as incredibly boring or annoying. I don't outright dislike any characters. Generally, though, I'm rather indifferent to the bottom three on my list, or I'm lukewarm to them at best. I like Palmer and Lance just fine. However, I'm especially fond of my top four favorite characters at this point.

Like I said, though, this is just an early list. I won't be surprised to see different characters grow on me throughout the course of this series, and it'll be fun to compare my initial list from now to what I come up with by the end of the season.

Given that the 16 episode season will focus on all 9

Spoiler

8, now

[close]

characters with no room for distractions, we've already gotten more from most of them than they got on Arrow and Flash simply because there wasn't time on those shows. Heatwave's gotten to the point that I eagerly await each time he speaks just as I await to see what Captain Cold will do in a scene. I'm also liking how Atom is seemingly growing as a hero and less of a fledgling wannabe with every episode.

Mine would be like this:

1. Leonard Snart (Captain Cold)
2. Martin Stein (Firestorm)
3. Rip Hunter
4. Mick Rory (Heatwave)
5. Ray Palmer (Atom)
6. Sara Lance (White Canary)
7. Jefferson Jackson (Firestorm)
8. Kendra Saunders (Hawkgirl)
9. Carter Hall (Hawkman)

The hawks have the disadvantage of only really having a handful of episodes for development (which will probably change given that time travel plays such a role here) and Jefferson simply hasn't gotten the experience or the time to be fleshed out yet though he is very likable and has good chemistry with everyone else. White Canary I'm simply waiting for them to deal with her problem and see where she goes from here, but she has been very funny so far. Everyone else has been great and a step up from their previous exposure in the Arrowverse.

It's nice to know that we have the same top four. :thumbup:

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on January 29, 2016, 03:15:21 PM

Spoiler

8, now

[close]

Spoiler

Being that this is a time-traveling show, I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of a future reincarnation of Hawkman joining the team in place of the fallen one.

[close]

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 29, 2016, 03:28:39 PM
It's nice to know that we have the same top four. :thumbup:

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on January 29, 2016, 03:15:21 PM

Spoiler

8, now

[close]

Spoiler

Being that this is a time-traveling show, I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of a future reincarnation of Hawkman joining the team in place of the fallen one.

[close]

Good point, I never considered that. This show really could go anywhere from here.

Spoiler

So Hawkman died in 1975 instead of in his own time, meaning his soul will probably reincarnate in 1975 and not 2016. And if we assume that Carter was born around the same time as his actor (1985), that would mean there's still a possibly active or in-training Hawkman in the 70s who could be affected by an extra soul in the reincarnation stream. Intriguing.

[close]

I actually wasn't that into the first part of the pilot, but the second half is a lot better. I don't have character rankings yet, but I'm excited to see how the show turns out as it goes along.

I liked the whole thing, personally. Both parts make up my favorite premiere to a comic book show yet. Most don't have me hooked from the beginning like this.

Red Tornado confirmed. (https://www.instagram.com/p/BBJGyISuUNh/)

Also, this show is a good example of why I don't take TV critics seriously.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 31, 2016, 09:12:27 PM
Also, this show is a good example of why I don't take TV critics seriously.

Yeah, I noticed they didn't have a good score at Tomatoes. The consensus basically said there were too many characters.



Which is really stupid, because they have to know the reason why is because its a crossover spinoff of two different shows.

It's also stupid because they are each clearly getting their own character arcs set-up, and these will obviously progress naturally throughout the course of the series. And despite all that's going on, both pilot episodes still managed to keep a consistent pace and tell a focused story without many distractions or convoluted tie-ins. Most criticisms that I've read seem rather superficial. Like, just criticizing it for the mere fact that it has a lot of characters, rather than really analyzing whether that element is actually handled poorly or not (and it's definitely not, in my book).

Also, all three seasons of Agents of SHIELD have high ratings on RT (season 1 is even "Certified Fresh"). If that's what constitutes good television and something like DCLOT is considered shit, then it's a sure sign that TV show reviews are a joke.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 31, 2016, 09:12:27 PM
Also, this show is a good example of why I don't take TV critics seriously.

My issue is that outside of criticisms I don't agree with (goofy, not dark enough, too cheesy) that can go either way, it's like a lot of people just seem to dislike it for being a fun adventure show and having a blast with being one. Nobody's going to convince me that AoS is a better show.

Also, having 9 characters isn't really a lot when you factor in that there basically aren't going to be any side-characters or recurring characters (outside villains) during the run which means they need more characters to fill the gaps. Not everyone is going to get perfect focus every episode, but that's fine with a cast as varied as this one.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 01, 2016, 01:31:36 AM
It's also stupid because they are each clearly getting their own character arcs set-up, and these will obviously progress naturally throughout the course of the series. And despite all that's going on, both pilot episodes still managed to keep a consistent pace and tell a focused story without many distractions or convoluted tie-ins. Most criticisms that I've read seem rather superficial. Like, just criticizing it for the mere fact that it has a lot of characters, rather than really analyzing whether that element is actually handled poorly or not (and it's definitely not, in my book).

Also, all three seasons of Agents of SHIELD have high ratings on RT (season 1 is even "Certified Fresh"). If that's what constitutes good television and something like DCLOT is considered shit, then it's a sure sign that TV show reviews are a joke.

They constantly give pretentious tripe like Lena Dunham's Girls a glowing review, despite the show having poor ratings. Its finally in its final season, but if it weren't for it being on HBO it would have been gone a lot sooner.

So, I just found out that Kevin Smith is going to be directing an episode of The Flash. I also saw a video of him tearing up at the season one finale. It was kind of awkward, but at least he's passionate about the show.

In regards to the recent Supergirl, I liked the way they handled Bizarro. It feels like the way they set it up could lead to events the comic version wouldn't. Especially if their "brain dead" subjects were suddenly not brain dead any longer for whatever reason.

I'm so glad that Wells came out about working with Zoom, and in the same episode Barry could understand his point of view and go back to working as a team with renewed trust. It's a great way to avoid dragging out an obvious cliche, and the prospect of them going to Earth Two has me really excited for future episodes.

Finally. (http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-flash-and-supergirl-crossover-is-happening-people-1756890879?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_twitter&utm_source=io9_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)

So there's the official linking with the Arrowverse. Glad to see it happening.

With all the hinting I'm expecting Green Lantern to be the next hero to show up. If he doesn't, I'll just pretend the animated series is the official canon version.

And now we know why Sara doesn't have the bloodlust.

Great episode of Arrow with a lot of reveals and good action. But it does highlight how much I've missed having Roy on the team. Oh well, maybe Legends of Tomorrow some day.

Yeah, this almost was a hollow victory, since despite being a good episode, I'm going to miss Roy again.

Ah well.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 03, 2016, 08:02:01 PM
And now we know why Sara doesn't have the bloodlust.

It's not really a good explanation, though. Sara was shown to still have a lack of control over her bloodlust even after Constantine helped to restore her soul. It wasn't as bad as before, but it was at least on the same level as Thea's bloodlust.

It seems to me that the writers just wanted to find a quick way to throw that plot-point out since Sara is now on LOT, and has a completely different character arc to deal with, handled by different writers.

QuoteGreat episode of Arrow with a lot of reveals and good action. But it does highlight how much I've missed having Roy on the team. Oh well, maybe Legends of Tomorrow some day.

From what I've come to understand, Colton Haynes left the show because of more appealing job offers for a higher pay from other projects. I'm not sure exactly what those are, but such is common in the world of entertainment. They probably figured that it was better to let him go pursue those, and come back occasionally as a recurring character, rather than to raise his pay on their already tight budget for a pretty expensive TV show, just to keep him on as a regular.

So, uh, never mind about the bloodlust thing. Sara still has it.

So why didn't they just further sedate or ensnare Vandal's body, bring it onto the ship, and get Kendra to wake up so she can stab him?

So, Arrow said that she didn't have the bloodlust anymore when really she did. Folks, we've finally reached the point where even live-action adaptations of a Superhero Universe can get too convoluted for the different writers to stay on the same page. Just like in actual comic books. This is truly a cause for celebration! :>

Dr. Insomniac also brings up a good point about the plot hole with them missing the perfect opportunity to kill Savage. Really, it'd be fine if he just escaped again, but seeing as how they did temporarily manage to incapacitate him, they could have locked him up in some way until Sara was fit enough to do the deed.

Gaping oversites aside, though, I still liked this episode quite a bit. When a show is as entertaining as this, it's kind of hard for me to focus all that much on its shortcomings.

Flash was so good this week. Earth 2 lived up to my expectations, and this shows that no matter what or where, our Barry is a good person.

And Supergirl had a pretty cool adaptation of "For the Man Who Has Everything", but I think that JLU's remains superior. And I think that Alan Moore would agree.

The slight difference in JLU with Clark slowly realizing everything hits a lot harder, I think, than Kara knowing then forgetting and having to remember. But it still worked really well here. Especially since it led to that surprise ending.

I'm just gonna say it.

The Flash:

Spoiler

The guy in the cell is the real Jay Garrick and the one Zoom just captured is not the real deal.

[close]

After this episode I'm pretty sure of it.

I hate CW and OnDemand not having the other episodes I need to catch up to Flash in them. I want to watch it legally, but now I'm starting to think I may be forced to use other means and that should never happen.

Hulu gets the show 8 days after it premieres. That's a bit of a wait, but it's not terrible.

Quote from: Avaitor on February 17, 2016, 09:41:44 AM
Hulu gets the show 8 days after it premieres. That's a bit of a wait, but it's not terrible.

Well, if I don't have to get Hulu Plus and the episodes are still in there I'll give them a shot. Thanks!

Quote from: Peanutbutter on February 18, 2016, 01:08:15 PM

Quote from: Avaitor on February 17, 2016, 09:41:44 AM
Hulu gets the show 8 days after it premieres. That's a bit of a wait, but it's not terrible.

Well, if I don't have to get Hulu Plus and the episodes are still in there I'll give them a shot. Thanks!

I think that you might need Plus if you want to backtrack further, but Hulu itself still has the past few episodes.

The CW's website/app streams the last few weeks' worth of episodes, so there's that.

I've honestly been keeping up with the show through those means, myself, since I don't actually have any cable or satellite TV right now. The episodes are uploaded just a few hours after they air.

Like with how both Canaries somehow had the bloodlust, the disconnect between the show writers is getting more annoying. When Captain Cold scolded Lance about potentially killing Stein by saying that he would never kill one of his own, and I'm going, "But you did that in your first episode. What are you talking about?"

Well, I'd argue that's more of a Flash characterization issue than one for LOT. In his first appearance on The Flash, Captain Cold was more ruthless, but in later appearances the writers toned him down, and for absolutely no reason at all he now had an honor code (which Barry pointed out in his last appearance on that show, so far).

The Snart in LOT is consistent with how he's been portrayed in his later appearances on The Flash. The problems with the inconsistent writing lie between his earlier and later appearances on that show specifically, the way that I see it.

As for the Canary bloodlust thing, that's a better example of confusion between the writing staffs across shows. She had it on Arrow, and then seemingly didn't have it at the start of LOT. Then the Arrow writers tried to write it off by saying that she didn't have it anymore because Constantine restored her soul, even though she clearly still had it in subsequent episodes of Arrow. However, since she is now part of the LOT cast, they had to explain it away. But then by episode 3 of LOT, they brought it up again out of nowhere.

The Snart issue, while a valid criticism, doesn't particularly bother me because it comes with the comic book and long-running series territory. I don't mind overlooking it because he's such an entertaining character. The Canary issue does bother me, though, because it's an issue that was brought up in the current season of Arrow, and thus there's no excuse for the current season of LOT to not be on the same page.

That said, the inconsistencies are still, at most, more nit-pick-worthy to me than huge gaping flaws that hamper my enjoyment of the show as its own stand-alone thing. So they don't really annoy me as much as they do for you, though I can fully understand where you're coming from.

I do hope they get rid of Sara's bloodlust soon since it is a hard issue to deal with, but the Snart thing was just typical retconning. As much as retconning can get on my nerves, as long as no one is punching a hole in reality, I can roll with it.

And to be fair you could always explain Snart's stance in this episode contradicting his earlier actions in one of two ways: Either the guy that he killed wasn't really "one of his own" in the way that Heatwave is (more of a true comrade), or it's not beneath him to be a bit of a hypocrite. Neither are great reasons, but it would at least make some sense of his character change.

Firestorm does the fusion dance? (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/02/21-1/legends-of-tomorrow-super-hero-tv-series-pays-tribute-to-dragon-ball-fusion-dance)

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 16, 2016, 08:05:10 PM
I'm just gonna say it.

The Flash:

Spoiler

The guy in the cell is the real Jay Garrick and the one Zoom just captured is not the real deal.

[close]

After this episode I'm pretty sure of it.

Spoiler

Yep, he was never Jay Garrick to begin with. His real name was always Hunter Zolomon and he was Zoom the whole time. I just don't know how he did it.

[close]

It must be Arrow week.

Spoiler

This might have been one of the best episodes of LoT so far. I particularly like how every character seems to be changing already. Can't wait for next week!

[close]

Secrets really don't exist in the Arrowverse, do they?

So what was Kendra's job before she became Hawkwoman?

Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on March 01, 2016, 12:47:19 AM
So what was Kendra's job before she became Hawkwoman?

Barista?

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 01, 2016, 01:21:18 PM

Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on March 01, 2016, 12:47:19 AM
So what was Kendra's job before she became Hawkwoman?

Barista?

Yes, that's the first time we saw her. Cisco asked her out there twice while she was behind the counter.

So while Arrow and Flash are off for almost a month, LoT is still going strong. I really don't want to wait a week to see how they get around this.

Another good episode, but I noticed yet another lapse of common sense among the team.

They said that they couldn't just drop Heatwave off in 2016 because he might hurt their families to get revenge, however they could have simply just taken him to STAR Labs in Central City to be locked in one of the metahuman holding facilities. I'm perplexed as to why that option was never even mentioned.

NBC picks up Powerless. (http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/14/powerless-nbc-developing-dc-comics-based-comedy-tv-series)

It's basically The Office with superheroes. (And yes, it's set in the DC universe.) This might be interesting.

Lame that everything is off right now except LoT.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 04, 2016, 01:30:38 AM
Another good episode, but I noticed yet another lapse of common sense among the team.

They said that they couldn't just drop Heatwave off in 2016 because he might hurt their families to get revenge, however they could have simply just taken him to STAR Labs in Central City to be locked in one of the metahuman holding facilities. i'm perplexed as to why that option was never even mentioned.

I'm guessing because he could still get out. Not like prisoners haven't escaped from there before.

Despite more "Goddamn it, Kendra. Use the dagger!" moments and them really hammering the whole "Weren't the 50s so racist?" message, decent episode. Liked the Roger Delgado look on Vandal this week.

Yeah, though that ending sort of came out of nowhere. They sure are good at those.

My only gripe with the episode was Sara clearly thinking that they had been abandoned at the end. Isn't it obvious that there's probably something going on that would force them to leave for the time being. She should know them better by now.

Other than that, it was good stuff, as usual.

As for Kendra not using the knife, I think it was made pretty clear that Savage was onto her before she even got a chance to use it.

Last night was probably the best episode of Supergirl so far. I was never a huge fan of all the kryptonite colors, thinking it was too silly to have red kryptonite do this and blue kryptonite do that. But I liked how they made it work here. Melissa Benoist has really made the role her own, and it's fun to see her run through the gamut of all Supergirl's emotions.

It definitely was one of the best episodes, especially considering it changed a lot of things I wasn't expecting to be changed so soon.

Just saw the teaser for The Flash/Supergirl crossover episode. It doesn't really show much, but I'm still hyped.

Anyways, the official synopsis was also released, and it confirms that both series do NOT, in fact, take place in the same Universe, as people suspected. Instead it's similar to the Earth Two scenario, where each series exists in parallel dimensions.

Here's a new Supergirl/The Flash crossover preview: https://youtu.be/Cdr8_IQqT-E

Looks like it should be pretty fun.

It won't happen, but I hope BvS's critical failure will mean Warner Bros eases up on the sanctions over the Arrowverse shows. Bring back some embargoed characters that haven't been killed off yet. Possibly get Superman to show his face on Supergirl. Like Brandon Routh is literally a block away from the Supergirl set, and that would make fans go "Ooh!" if they ever happen to make a brief crossover with Legends.

This was a pretty fun crossover episode of Supergirl and The Flash, overall. I enjoyed seeing Barry interact with most of the regular cast and team up with Kara, but I do feel that we could have gotten a few more moments of teamwork here and there, and the ending where the people suddenly have a change of heart and try to defend Supergirl was beyond corny. After all of the shit that she caused when her mind was under the influence of Red Kryptonite, I feel like it should have at least taken her the rest of the season to earn back the trust of National City. To have it happen just because she happened to block some lightning from hitting a helicopter felt ridiculously easy. If it was at least a contained incident, having her earn back the trust of just the handful of people who witnessed her, I could still probably swallow it (the line "she was willing to die for us" was atrocious, though), but having the news spread fast and then having her status quo restored overnight just felt like a huge cop-out, and a waste of the really interesting aftermath that was left by the Red Kryptonite incident.

Actually, it technically did go to the end of the season since there are only two episodes left.  ;D

But yeah, that aside it was a really fun episode. It's a shame Supergirl/Superman are on Earth Three (basically), but it does still lend the possibility to crossovers in the future.

Yeah, the civilians stepping up for Supergirl felt like the "You mess with one of us, you mess with all of us" scene from Spider-Man.

So, I'm just going to come out and say it: This is my favorite episode of The Flash to date. I just loved the concept of the modern Barry confronting the Eobard Thawne from the first season. It was great to see that character again, even if the actor himself has still been a regular of the show this season. And yes, I'm sure some nit-picky bastard could point out tons of plot-holes here and there when time-travel is thrown into the mix to this extent, but I honestly couldn't give two fucks. It was satisfying in terms of great character development and presenting us with a unique and intriguing situation. I also love the concept of the Time Wraith. I hope that this is not the last that we ever see of it.

Anyone else wish Snart got a hookhand by the end of the episode instead of just regenerating it? Otherwise, didn't see that coming with the reveal.

I was kind of hoping Snart wouldn't have told them about his identity, went back in time and got him, and then they would have had a paradox to deal with.

But this is an interesting way to deal with it.

You know, I never even thought bout the possibility of Chronos's identity being a twist to begin with, but it is a pretty cool reveal. It does bring up yet another easy to ignore, but still notable, plot-hole:

Spoiler

Wouldn't Heat Wave already know that his earlier attempts to kill the group as Chronios would fail? Thus, he wouldn't undergo the same courses of action that he took against them in the previous episodes in the first place if he already knew that they would get away. Though, you could argue that the Time Masters brainwashing him messed with his memory a bit, but that doesn't really hold up to scrutiny since he clearly remembers his time with the team well enough.

[close]

It's nothing that kills the twist for me, but it is just an interesting inconsistency to bring up.

And in response to Dr. Insomniac's question: I was actually hoping that he'd get it replaced with a metal hand and then have an epic redemption story-line a-la-Game of Thrones. I'm only half joking.

I watched the series finale of Smallville yesterday on a whim, and it's amazing to see how much CW's portrayal of superheroes changed between then and now. The fight scenes were about seconds long, full-body shots of the Superman costume weren't even allowed, and there were so many awkward juxtapositions thanks to the show's insistence on avoiding superhero tropes while showing a CGI Darkseid and Apokolips. Not to mention this show's Green Arrow.

Spoiler

I don't think she's dead. Something about how she asked Oliver to do something for her makes me doubt it.

[close]

Siffy greenlights pilot for Superman prequel series. (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/superman-origin-story-krypton-nears-886524)

Wow, this was a good episode of Arrow! While I'm still sad about Laurel's death (surprising, I know), I'm curious to see how things will turn out from here.

Gotham's still dumb as balls, but BD Wong plays the best Hugo Strange that we're ever going to get.

They keep mentioning Hub City all season and now they're there. So where is the freaking Question already?  :thinkin:

Kevin Smith and the writer of Thor did a great job with this episode of The Flash.

The Arrow crew is making up for the repetitiveness of the last part of season 3 here. The last few episodes have been really great.

Supergirl moves to The CW for season 2. (http://deadline.com/2016/05/supergirl-moves-the-cw-renewed-season-2-melissa-benoist-1201754579)

Great, now with this and Person of Interest ending, I don't need to tune into CBS for anything.

Though now with there being FOUR shows, CW isn't going to have a lot of space.

Good. CBS was awful to deal with. They are the only basic cable network that I know of to charge people a subscription fee to stream new episodes of their shows online. Not only that, but their net coding is awful and videos often have to stop for buffering or just outright freeze. Meanwhile, CW's streaming app runs near perfectly as long as you have a moderately decent Internet connection, and recently they have cut way down on ads during episode streams.

I wonder if that means Felicity will start hopping universes to show up on Supergirl.

I'm worried that this might be the end of Cat Grant. I've heard that Calista Flockhart has no interest in switching to Canada for production.

You know, Captain Cold's sacrifice probably would have meant more if The CW hadn't already announced that he would be appearing in multiple DC shows next season.

Probably. But it did give Mick a chance to be awesome, so I can't quite disparage it.

While it was a cool first part to the finale, I really wish we got more of a look at Zoom's army. One of the highlights for season 2 was getting to see the show indulge in the Silver Age aesthetic and have goofy-looking supervillains on a regular basis, and I was saddened to only get a good view of a couple of them in this episode. Not to say Black Siren wasn't good, but when there was at least one Thanagarian in the background and you don't do anything with that, come on.

Liked how Cisco just happened to have Reverb and Killer Frost costumes though.

I'm really digging Arrow season 4. This was a good first part of the finale and I can't wait to see how it ends. The Anarchist was an excellent addition to the season. Arrow needs more villains like him.

Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on May 18, 2016, 11:54:44 PMLiked how Cisco just happened to have Reverb and Killer Frost costumes though.

Of course he did. He made them.  :D

That didn't take long. (http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-supergirl-arrow-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-tv-mega-c-1777549338)

Well, of course. What would be the point of rescuing the show and bringing it to the CW line-up if they weren't already planning to take full advantage of their rich content-pool and do a mega crossover? It was so obvious that it practically goes without saying. Definitely looking forward to it.

So, whatever happened to that footage from the initial promotional trailer of this show from last year, which showed the LOT cast teaming up with Green Arrow and The Flash? That never happened in this season. Did the writers just change their minds and scrap whatever storyline that was a part of, or was it just false advertising to get some people more pumped for the show?

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 20, 2016, 01:26:52 AM
So, whatever happened to that footage from the initial promotional trailer of this show from last year, which showed the LOT cast teaming up with Green Arrow and The Flash? That never happened in this season. Did the writers just change their minds and scrap whatever storyline that was a part of, or was it just false advertising to get some people more pumped for the show?

I was wondering about that, too. It was even in the clip at the end of season 1 of The Flash when Barry was running through time and seeing all those events.

I wonder if had anything to do with the fact that the series is 16 episodes a season and they didn't know it at the time, so some material got cut. It's a shame, though. I think it would have been better than some of the episodes we got this season.

I heard it was just test footage to show to the CW executives as a proof-of-concept thing.

Overall I enjoyed the show, but I have to admit that it was all thanks to the entertaining performances for each character. The plot became a big mess and the writers seemed to have a hard time staying on the same page. Hopefully they improve things for season two and present us with a much more coherent story and smoother character development.

I agree. It was a solid first season, but very inconsistent in quality.

I have to say, there was some really good character development for most of the cast, though.

Yeah, the cast itself is excellent. That's what held the season together for me, personally.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on January 29, 2016, 03:15:21 PM
1. Leonard Snart (Captain Cold)
2. Martin Stein (Firestorm)
3. Rip Hunter
4. Mick Rory (Heatwave)
5. Ray Palmer (Atom)
6. Sara Lance (White Canary)
7. Jefferson Jackson (Firestorm)
8. Kendra Saunders (Hawkgirl)
9. Carter Hall (Hawkman)

My ratings changed quite a bit since this ranking.

1. Mick Rory (Heatwave)

Had by far the most development. He went from a one dimensional Flash villain to anti-hero to actual hero by the end. He had the best one-liners, and was by far the best character to follow on screen. In my opinion, he's the breakout character.

2. Ray Palmer (The Atom)

The whole aborted romance with Kendra aside, Ray's character growth was about losing his naive outlook on what it meant to be a hero that he started with on Arrow. He grew a lot into being one of the strongest members of the team. I'm glad he stayed with them by season's end.

3. Leonard Snart (Captain Cold)

Though he was always the least psychotic of the Rogues, he soon became an invaluable member of the team with his quick wits and ability to read people. He grew a lot, but I think Heatwave and Atom were simply more surprising to me that he falls just below them. His self-sacrifice at the end was a nice capping off from where he started in the Arrowverse.

4. Martin Stein (Firestorm)

The brains of the outfit, he had some pretty good moments this season. His moral quandaries were some of the best during the various time periods, and his jokes were some of the strongest. That said, the biggest improvement came in his relationship with--

5. Jefferson Jackson (Firestorm)

He fully fell into place here as a great other half for Dr. Stein. Though he had some of the hardest struggles, he still became a character that never backed down. Him and Stein are now the perfect Firestorm.

6. Sara Lance (White Canary)

She didn't really change all that much. The bloodlust problem was never resolved. Her thing at the end of the season about Laurel kind of fell flat since it was her only real emotional moment that season. However, her relationship with Snart was slowly built up and was well done. She only suffers in the rankings because she didn't really change. Can't say as much for the others below her.

7. Rip Hunter

The squirrel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA-Gsffm69E) of the group. When he wasn't being selfish, whining about someone doing something, or making bad decisions, he was, uh, failing at everything he attempted. Don't get me wrong, his scene with his family at season's end was great, but it was about the only thing he did, other than one duel earlier, that didn't end in failure. I hope next season gives him something other than being the whiny nag.

8. Kendra Saunders (Hawkgirl)

I have to say, her storyline did nothing for me. Probably because it went back and forth for so long with no real progress or change. Her relationship with Ray went nowhere because she didn't want it to, and her mindless desire to kill Savage nearly got everyone killed more than once. I'm not saddened that her storyline is over and now she's gone.

9. Carter Hall (Hawkman)

We literally know nothing about him. He died early and then came back as a brain-wiped automaton. He is last by default.


Best episode: Marooned

This was the best episode of the season. Lots of great character moments and it leads to an ending that is extremely shocking for the series. The whole space pirate thing is a fun break from the time traveling and the action is really well done. The whole thing is really LoT at its very best. I'd like to see more episodes like this in season 2.

Worst episode: Night of the Hawk

Do I need to say why? Not only is every human being in the time period incredibly racist, there is no nuance to any of their characterizations. It's cliche central. On top of that, Kendra goes off to kill Vandal Savage on her own . . . for no reason. Why did she not just BRING THE WHOLE TEAM and end him right there? It made no sense at all. But that's not all. Other than the ending, which could have been in any episode, nothing that happens in this episode matters at all. None of the other lesser episodes can make that claim.


All in all, it was a solid start for the show, but they need to tighten up the writing and episode plots. But I can only see it going up from here. I'm eager to see who they bring on next season and I hope they have more episodes that focus on more of the characters.

So next season's Flashpoint, I guess.

That kind of came out of nowhere. Barry might have just erased everything that happened over the last two seasons.

So how do Time Remnants work? Up until this episode, I thought they were like afterimages that a speedster could create after going way too fast, but now they're going with this angle?

If this is really Flashpoint, shouldn't it technically have an effect on Arrow's next season? And I don't even want to think of how much worse it could convolute Legends of Tomorrow than that series has already done to itself.

I'm just going to assume that the show won't go the comic book route (which is wise since the comic was garbage, IMO) and will instead have the timeline alterations more contained to just the Central City characters.

I'd hope not, since if Barry's mother never dies, then he never visits Star City and he never saves Oliver's life.

As for the end of the season, I'd have to say I enjoyed Arrow season 4 more than The Flash season 2. It was more consistent, had more high points, and fixed every issue people had with season 3's back quarter. Only thing I'm hoping for is that next season has more standalone episodes. We haven't really had any since the first half of season 3 of Arrow.

I think my rankings for the shows have to be

Arrow Season 4
The Flash Season 2
Supergirl Season 1
Legends of Tomorrow Season 1

The last handful of episodes of Arrow's recent season really knocked it out of the park, and I feel like the build-up to the finale's end was perfect. I'm really excited to see how things turn out next year. Flash started off a little stronger, and had great moments all around, but yeah, I'm not sure if the finale was he best move. Supergirl had its rough patches all around, but shows a lot of potential for something really special, especially based on the bonds Kara has with Cat and Alex.

And LOT needs some help with structure, but there's a good show here, and I'm willing to stick around to see how it develops. Thankfully the cast is pretty strong to make it happen.

Didn't watch Arrow, so my rankings would be:

Flash Season 2
Gotham Season 2 (I know, I know. The show still has severe brain problems, and absolutely nothing with the Azrael arc made any sense. But it's too fun to put at the bottom)
Supergirl Season 1
Legends of Tomorrow Season 1

Berlanti Superman incoming! (http://www.avclub.com/article/superman-will-finally-visit-his-cousin-supergirl-s-237797) I guess the Supergirl showrunners are tired of awkwardly skirting around him like he's a ghost.

It would be awkward if they continued treating him like they did in season 1.

Also, we're one step closer to getting a full Justice League in the Arrowverse.

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--LGRUpEfh--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/lz5rnmhgzlpmqz4ocgbo.jpg)

So why couldn't they just bring Brandon Routh back? This guy looks like someone you'd find in a Superman porno.

Just finished episode 3 of Arrow. Damn, Chyna White, Deadshot and Constantine Drakon in the first 3 episodes? That's crazy. I wonder who is next (DON'T TELL ME! I think I saw Brick's name on the hit list though.)

And Deathstroke in episode 5..

HOLY FUCK, THIS SHOW HAS SHADO???!!!!!! :worship:

What episode are you on?

Episode 14: Odyssey

Ah, OK. You're around the halfway point of season one, which is when the show starts getting really good, IMO. Season two is great, but upon a reviewing season three is a mixed bag. It's not as bad as some people make it out to be, but it can get overly melodramatic with some of its subplots, though. Season four is a return to form, though, and the second half has some of the best episodes in the entire series so far, IMO.

Damn, got to get used to how long network tv seasons are.

The first half of season 3 is really good, at least. The back half is when it gets really repetitive. They thankfully got around that in season 4, but the haters still went ballistic over it.

This is one of the better/funnier videos that they've made n a while: http://youtu.be/WvUXbzxxdo0

Pretty slow premiere, all things considered. A lot in the new timeline went unexplained (Where was Wells? He didn't die. What was the deal with Joe? And Cory's journalism teacher was the new police chief! Cool!) and the ending of the episode meant it didn't really amount to much, but the set up to the season is intriguing. A non-speed based villain for a season would be a nice change.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 04, 2016, 08:13:31 PM
Pretty slow premiere, all things considered. A lot in the new timeline went unexplained (Where was Wells? He didn't die. What was the deal with Joe? And Cory's journalism teacher was the new police chief! Cool!) and the ending of the episode meant it didn't really amount to much, but the set up to the season is intriguing. A non-speed based villain for a season would be a nice change.

Slow? I think the fact that you have so many unanswered questions about the premiere indicates the opposite. I actually feel that they rushed (no pun intended) through this version of Flashpoint a bit too fast, personally. We could have easily spent another episode or two having Barry deal with the consequences of his actions in this arc.

That said, this episode did set up some interesting stuff for the rest of this arc.

Well, I liked this episode and I hope we get to see more of this growing team Oliver is forming. I just hope the killing issue doesn't come up again since it was pretty definitively answered in the finale of season 4. Also, since it's the last season for the flashbacks, this one better lead up to something big.

I'm glad the Rival showed up in the Flash, but I'm equally glad that he's not the main villain of season 3. A third speedster villain would have gotten old, considering how much the back half of season 2 had the same repetitive issues as Arrow season 3.

As for Supergirl, it was a bit hard to notice in-show that it moved from CBS to the CW. With Superman guesting, I'm guessing they're going to eventually set up a Justice League scenario down the road.

Supergirl is still the weakest of these shows IMO, but season two's premiere was already a substantial improvement over anything from the first season, IMO.

The Flash has an interesting setup for the rest of the season, though at this point I'm still not sure where the story is headed, but like Desensitized I'm also glad that the main villain isn't just another speedster for a change.

Arrow has gotten off to a really strong start this season, and Rag Man is such an interesting new character. I didn't expect him to be an anti-hero, and the fact that he gave up his revenge to save Olliver despite not even knowing him hints that there is a lot more to his character than just a typical drive for revenge. I also like how he is a survivor from the nuclear attack unleashed by Darhk last season, giving him a tragic background which makes his motives all the more sympathetic.

Much like Sipergirl, Legends of Tomorrow is already off to a much better start than the muddled mess that was its first season. That said, I thought that Heatwave and the new time detective character searching for the other members of the Legends to reassemble the team throughout the season made for a great setup. It's a shame that they just montaged through all of that at the very end to return everything to status quo, minus Hunter either being dead or MIA. Even so, I really like how this season is brining back great villains from previous seasons, and especially with Olliver guest-starring in this episode as well as Darhk being a major villain in this episode and the reveal of his alliance with the Reverse Flash at the end, all four of these shows are feeling a lot more interconnected in a really good way. It feels like in addition to being good shows in their own rights, there really is something being built up to for the upcoming four-night crossover.

Heard that the deal Kreisberg made with DC would be that Superman would only show up for Supergirl's first two episodes instead of being semi-occurring. That sucks, because his rapport with Kara was great. Show needs that now that Cat Grant's been demoted.

It's a shame since those first two episodes were two of the best the show has had so far. Without him and Cat around the show is going to need something to fill the void.

I did hear that Deadshot was un-embargo'd, so I guess DC's issues with their shows is mellowing out. Or maybe it's just because of Geoff Johns.

That or the fact that the movie isn't a priority anymore means the characters are free for the show. It was nice seeing him again tonight anyway.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx5YDVHWQAAt-xW.jpg:large)

So, we're going full Superfriends.

The Supergirl episode was a letdown. It had nothing to do with the crossover until the last thirty seconds... which ended up being in the Flash episode anyway.

But the first part of the crossover? Excellent! This is the type of stuff I want to see the shows do more often. I'm eager to see where the second part goes.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 29, 2016, 08:11:24 PM
The Supergirl episode was a letdown. It had nothing to do with the crossover until the last thirty seconds... which ended up being in the Flash episode anyway.

But the first part of the crossover? Excellent! This is the type of stuff I want to see the shows do more often. I'm eager to see where the second part goes.

Pretty much this. It sucks too, because Supergirl, while not bad, is easily the weakest of these shows, and really could do with characters of a lot more personality and some depth. And this was really misadvertised, since it's clearly a 3-night crossover, not 4-night.

That said, damn was this worth all of the hype and build-up. It's also really cool to see Future Barry's message be revealed as a major plot point in this crossover, rather than as a Legends of Tomorrow reveal, which I was originally expecting. This is the right way to do a crossover between TV shows.

Also, is it just me, or does Kara come off as a lot more endearing and entertaining when her character and personality is bouncing off or clashing with a wide cast of more interesting characters than in her own show? I always felt that her actress was actually a good fit for the role. It's manly Supergirl's supporting cast that has always just been pretty "meh" to me.

Arrow's part was just as great. While Flash was more explosive and grand, Arrow was somewhat more introspective, which really helped add variety. It reminded me of that classic BTAS episode. It almost makes me wish they would edit the three parts into a long movie for home release. It's easily the best way to watch them.

But yeah, I haven't been feeling Supergirl outside of the first two episodes of the season. The cast is dull, the stories feel uninspired, and seeing Kara outside of her element here actually proves how much she has been held back by it.

By the way, where did Heatwave and Firestorm go? They weren't mentioned at all in the second part. I assume that will be a big part of part 3, but it was still strange that they were nowhere to be found.

I still like Supergirl better than Legends, which has only grabbed me as of late when other members of the universe show up, like Oliver in the premiere, or Damian Darhk in the last episode. But I do think that Supergirl hasn't recovered from losing Cat, and this week's episode was a let down.

I haven't seen Arrow's ep yet, but Flash's was a major improvement.

Just a reminder that Legends of Tomorrow moved to tonight, right after The Flash.

Last night's Supergirl was pretty good, but I think Kevin Smith's Flash episode was stronger. Still, a lot got done in this episode, and I liked Mon a little more than usual here.

So has anybody reacted positively to Savitar's real identity?

No.

So, I came across these two videos that perfectly sum up my thoughts on the last season of the CW DC shows.

The first is about why season 3 of The Flash failed: https://youtu.be/01v0jlrd7oc

And yes, I agree with pretty much all of it. The Flash really peaked with the back-half of season one, but ever since then the writers seem to have become so obsessed with redoing the same story arc that made that first season so successful that the show has stumbled into a boring repetitive formula of diminishing returns. I already found it redundant to have yet another speedster villain be the big bad of season two, with Zoom being a complete clone of the Reverse Flash in all but his origin story. Savitar was even worse, and this video really highlights why. I was actually on board with The Alchemist being the main villain of the arc and liked the idea of a villain who wasn't pure evil for a change, either. Too bad that was scrapped within the first handful of episodes. For what it's worth, season four does look to be addressing a lot of these problems, but the damage done from season three is so extensive that it'll be hard for the writers to dig themselves out of that hole. What does give me a little hope is the subject of the next video.

It's about the redemption of Arrow: https://youtu.be/ODfLODmjVKc

While I wouldn't say that it's as good as season two, it's easily the best the show has been since then. I'd also say that it's an overall better season than Luke Cage, Iron Fist, or The Defenders if we're comparing contemporaries here. It's not perfect, but it returned Arrow to the things that it did best, and most of the flaws were holdover plot lines from the last two seasons that had really damaged the show, but the writers really did a god job finding a way to work past most of those issues by the end of the season (hopefully The Flash writers can do the same). That last flashback scene in particular was perfectly executed. And yes, that literally being the last flashback that we'll ever have in this show, successfully completing Olliver's origin story arc, makes me really intrigued to see how the next season unfolds without that crutch to lean on.

Now you might be wondering what about Supergirl and LOT. And in response to that I would repeat, "What about them?" Both shows were so boring and forgettable that it honestly felt like a chore to keep up with them. The three-part crossover episode was a ton of fun, but that's pretty much the only exception. I heard someone say that the DC three-parter was a more entertaining team-up than The Defenders, and I tend to agree (I didn't even dislike The Defenders, but it was overall disappointingly underwhelming). I'll definitely watch the eventual DC crossover from this season, but in all honesty other than that, I plan on skipping Supergirl and LOT entirely. I just have better uses of my time. I'll give Bkack Lightning a shot, but if I'm to be honest I'm not looking forward to that, either. In all honesty I feel like Greg Berlanti bit off more than he could chew in trying to produce so many shows at once.

I agree with a lot of your points. Flash was more fun in season 1, while Arrow has really redeemed itself this year, Supergirl hasn't been the same since Cat Grant left, and I feel that it's just too late in the game for Legends to find a groove with its team. They all still have their moments, enough for me to stick around, but I do think Berlanti has too much on his plate.

You both echoed my opinions. I really fell out hard with these shows this past season. The Flash fell off a cliff, Supergirl lost everything good about it, and LoT fixed none of the problems from season 1 and added new ones. Arrow was the only one I kept up with because they've almost recovered to where they were in the first half of season 3 before it went downhill. Arrow aside I didn't enjoy any of them outside of random episodes.

I'm not sure what happened this year, but they really screwed up. Bets the season 4 Flash villain will be another freaking speedster?

Actually, season four's main villain has been confirmed to be the Thinker. If nothing else, the writers at least heard the complaint about the speedster villains being frustratingly redundant.

I was debating whether I should continue Flash after being frustrated and dropping the show after season 2, and watching that video makes me feel justified in giving season 3 a pass. It's a shame, because I loved the first season of The Flash, and Tom Cavanaugh's performances as the various Harrison Wells' are always great, but the whole Zoom storyline really lost me with how convoluted and unsatisfying it was and the way the finale made Barry go back on the lesson he learned in the previous seasons felt insulting. It sucks because Flash was the only CW DC show that I liked. I could never get into Arrow because I didn't like the show's characterization of Oliver or any of the supporting cast, and I've since tried quite a few episodes from each season but it's never clicked with me. I watched the entire first seasons of Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl and while they showed promise at times ultimately they fell flat for me and I didn't check out their second seasons. I hope season 4 of Flash can rebound the series like how Arrow season 5 apparently did for that show, because I really want to like watching it again.

I found Legends to have improved from last season after dumping the Hawks and Vandal, and getting the Legion of Doom instead. Supergirl had a decent season 2 premiere only to grow boring and unremarkable. And Flash has been frustrating to watch recently, not as disappointing as GOT has been doing lately, but all of the speedsters and Barry's fuck-ups have taken their toll. I still have no idea what they're doing with Caitlin, and Wally is just too much of a stick in the road to picture as the lead while Barry's temporarily dead. If anything, my favorite DC show running now is still Gotham. It's nonsensical with absurdly bad plots, but at least it's entertaining to watch its madness.

Haven't really bothered to follow Supergirl or LOT this season, but I did watch Crisis on Earth X. For what it was I found it to be entertaining despite being ridiculously over-the-top even by the standards of these shows as they are.

Kind of ballsy of them to kill off Stein. That was probably one of the more well-done death scenes in any of these shows. Just too bad that I'm not really into LOT anymore otherwise it could have had more of an actual impact for me.

Still, these crossover events remain to be genuinely enjoyable for what they are, even if I'm no longer a big fan of all of these shows.

I thought it was fun, but moments like Felicity's cheesy speech about Nazis made my eyes roll. Cool to see the Earth-X Captain Cold, Wells Reverse Flash again, and a non-stupid looking Red Tornado.

I think the things that stuck out to me the most in this crossover were the character beats happening throughout, both big and small.

Stuff like Cisco teleporting Oliver to fight his double, Heat Wave's brief interaction with Director Singh (calling all the way back to his appearances on The Flash), the brief moment between Oliver and Sara which called back to Arrow season two, and especially The Atom saving Supergirl by stopping the Reverse Flash's scalpel from dissecting her while shrunk down to a barely visible size. In general this was perhaps the best use of live-action Ray Palmer since his inception in Arrow.

It really does make me realize how barren The Defenders was of any really interesting character dynamics like those.

I also dropped Supergirl and Legends this season (any hopes of me returning to the former dropped when I heard that not only is Mon-El back, but he's brought a love triangle with him. Yuck), but I do plan to catch their episodes for the crossover, when I get to it. I'm pretty behind on everything, but hopefully I'll get to it this weekend.

I also haven't been too hot on Flash this season, which has had some dumb episodes on top of a plot that hasn't won me over. Arrow is still mostly on its upswing though, IMO.

The Flash has been a mixed bag for me this season. I personally enjoy this show's interpretation of Plastic Man, and they know not to use him in every episode but only sparsely so as not to make his presence feel grating. The line-up of the core cast is also pretty good, sticking mostly to season one characters rather than forcing obnoxious new team members down our throats. Where the show fails to hold my interest is in the villains and the mellodrama of the Barry/Iris relationship. Now that they have finally had their wedding, maybe that aspect of the story can finally be left behind. However, the villains this season, both the main threat of The Thinker as well as the one-off bad guys, have been really underwhelming. I mean, I'm glad that we're not dealing with another speedster yet again, but you can't make an interesting threat out of a guy who hasn't done anything different than any of the previous villains as of yet and is literally just sitting around in a chair just telling us that he will get stuff done yet not really doing anything as of yet. He's sort of like the Thanos of this season, except unlike Thanos I don't quite foresee him being a crossover level threat. The other minor villains have been utterly forgettable and were it not for the fact that many of the core characters have such good chemistry with each other, I'd find the show to be an absolute bore since the actual conflicts going on barely feel like a real threat compared to what the cast has faced before.

Arrow has mostly maintained its quality from last season, but the Oliver/Felicity relationship is always a hindrance on the plot and I'm not sure why the writers of this show are so damn obsessed with pushing this pairing when it's clear that nobody was a fan of it the first time around. More than that, though, it's clear that none of these shows really know how to handle romance well, so it's really frustrating to see them so constantly present in each of them, but this being the CW and all, I'm sure that there's some kind of quota when it comes to stuff like that.

I've found Oliver and Felicity a little more bearable this time, but they're far from my favorite part of Arrow. I do agree that the writers have problems making romance work on the show, as is definitely clear from Flash and Supergirl, with that being a big reason that I dropped the latter. The characters are fine on their own, but they never seem to work with other partners, resulting in annoying, redundant conflicts going on in every episode.

Plastic Man has been enjoyable, yeah. I almost forgot about him for a second, but he has been a highlight thus far.

Just finished Crisis on Earth X, and while I do admit that it's ridiculous and got annoyingly cheesy, I did really enjoy it. The previous crossover for the four shows were mostly underwhelming to me, especially considering how the Supergirl and Arrow episodes barely had anything to do with the others (although that Arrow episode was good in its own right), so I gave it points for all four episodes being connected. Like EK, I would have been more affected by Stein's death if Legends did more for me as a show.

And I really liked the last scene. It felt right to have it be just the five of them, and while I'm still not a big fan of how the show handles relationships, I like the idea of them being happy together, and wish for their best. Which won't happen, obviously, but it was still a nice moment.

Watchmen is getting a TV series on HBO. (http://www.thewrap.com/damon-lindelof-watchmen-hbo)

It won't have any connection to Zack Snyder or the movie.

:joy:

I hope they get Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns to write scripts just to rub salt into the wound.

Huh, cool.


I still think the movie was one of the few things Snyder did well, but this is bound to be better.

I'd say that it's a competent film, but a poor adaptation. For as many scenes as Snyder replicates from the comic book, he tends to completely misinterpret what Alan Moore was actually saying with this story.

Black Lightning started off good, though I'm wondering how long it will take until Berlanti rolls back that "It's totally not part of the Arrowverse" statement and does crossovers.

Really got into the premiere for Black Lightning. Not only does it feel tonally different from the other CW DC shows, but it also seems to have a much stronger cast (at least so far) all around, whereas the other shows tend to have a good enough lead but a really mixed supporting cast that range from decent to outright awful. I don't get that same feeling from these characters, yet, though again, it is only the first episode.

I also enjoyed the Black Lightning premiere. Which surprised me, since I wasn't sure if it would do a good job of being socially aware, but it wasn't as gawdy or obnoxious as I was expecting. I hope the show stays in this direction.

Well, I didn't expect that in Legends.

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/984027497355530243
https://twitter.com/badpostitans/status/984057806738415618

:whuh:

I've never been a big Titans fan, not even the comics, but I still know enough to call out how awkward they look.

Quote from: Daikun on December 18, 2017, 08:06:58 PMWatchmen is getting a TV series on HBO. (http://www.thewrap.com/damon-lindelof-watchmen-hbo)

It won't have any connection to Zack Snyder or the movie.

UPDATE: It won't be a direct adaptation. (https://www.cbr.com/watchmen-tv-fargo-comparison)

I suppose that makes sense, considering the movie did that already. We'd just be retreading old ground.

Most of Snyder's film was already a direct adaptation so it only makes sense they want to try something different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzvNMJEnT4I

(https://media.giphy.com/media/xdnfWJFRpP8Eo/giphy.gif)

Here's the better Titans trailer. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnnCd3haipo)

So, I don't follow any of the CW DC shows anymore because they all pretty much suck now (even Black Lightning got stale by the end of the first season, IMO), but I did still watch the Elseworlds crossover because the annual crossover events are the only things about these shows that are actually still fun for what they are. Even last year's boring collection of seasons wasn't much of a factor in keeping Crisis on Earth X from being a lot of fun.

Elseworlds wasn't as good as that one, but still felt pretty entertaining overall, and was still pretty easy to follow despite not keeping up with any of the shows this season. That said, the most interesting thing by far here was how this event set up next year's event, which will be adapting Crisis on Infinite Earths. The fact that they announced this a year ahead of time is a clear indicator that they are treating this as a huge, status-quo destroying deal. Additionally, Barry and Kara's deaths from the original comic were referenced here, but these shows lacking the subtlety that they do pretty much heavily implied that Oliver will be taking their place as the major death to occur in the upcoming event, which means that Stephen Amell will most likely be leaving Arrow next year (and the CW-verse in general). This is doubly supported by the fact that, from what I've heard from those still watching it, this season of Arrow seems to be setting up for a new character to take over the mantle.

Oh, also they officially canonized the 90's live-action TV show Flash into this multiverse. They didn't really use him much, but that was still a neat touch.

Not really digging that Cyborg design. (https://youtu.be/5JG-TNPkV8k)

The Doom Patrol premiere was surprisingly really good. Loved Alan Tudyk's narration, and how the characterization felt like something out of a Bryan Fuller show.

Glad to know that it's good. I don't have the DC streaming service so I'll have to wait a while to watch this one, but I may check it out after all. I didn't really watch or read any promotional material for this but I have to ask, which version of Negative Man did it go with: Larry or Rebis (AKA Larry with boobs)?

I'm really only familiar with Morrison's run on the series, but I imagine that might be a bit too much for the adaptation to do anymore than make some passing nods to.

They're going with Larry for Negative Man. Cliff (Robotman), Rita (Elasti-Woman), Crazy Jane, and the Chief round out the rest of the roster. Cyborg is apparently meant to show up later on. It's funny that Mento's the only one of the original roster who doesn't show up, whereas he was the only one of the crew to show up in Young Justice as the rest of the team died off-screen.

Swamp Thing has been cancelled. (https://www.newsarama.com/44805-dc-universe-s-swamp-thing-shut-down-unexpectedly-report.html) Only 10 of its 13 episodes were produced.

Here's the teaser for HBO's new Watchmen series. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zymgtV99Rko)

Doom Patrol's first season ended with some romance. (https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_470/bpxf8jqkmhzpixtohxqb.mp4)

Image not found.

It was inevitable they would get some form of Batman in Crisis, but they made a very interesting casting decision here. (https://www.thewrap.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-crossover-black-lightning-bruce-wayne-kevin-conroy/)

Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 04, 2019, 02:07:24 PM
It was inevitable they would get some form of Batman in Crisis, but they made a very interesting casting decision here. (https://www.thewrap.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-crossover-black-lightning-bruce-wayne-kevin-conroy/)

The only appropriate response to that news:

:shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake:

ngl, this will probably get me to watch any of the DC shows since the first season of Black Lightning.

Syfy has cancelled Krypton and decided to abort Lobo. (https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/krypton-canceled-syfy-lobo-spinoff-1203304877)

The first episode of Watchmen was really unfocused. A third was confusing and weird like the raining squids, another third was dull, but I liked Sister Night and I'm interested in what's going to happen next like where they're going with Ozymandias. Even though I knew the story was going to tackle racism, I was still caught off guard by the Klansmen showing up in the first act. They hammer the message hard here, and I can kind of appreciate the bluntness while rolling my eyes at the Rorschach white supremacists. And the show's not to blame, but there's a moment that's exactly like a scene from this week's South Park except played seriously. Not sure if that was less or more bizarre than the cop wearing a panda mask, the Rorschachs thinking 9/11 was caused by squids, or Sister Night's kid glaring at the camera.

HBO's making a prequel to Matt Reeve's Batman movies focusing on the Gotham City Police Department and the rise of corruption that necessitates a Batman. (https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1282030891162832897) Almost like there wasn't a recent series lasting 100 episodes doing just that.

DC is being hit with massive layoffs. Most of the DC Universe staff has been fired. (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/dc-comics-dc-universe-hit-by-major-layoffs-1306743)

Michael Rosenbaum interviewed Kevin Conroy about his past and anxiety troubles in his youth. (https://youtu.be/cUONQUoWLzs)

Quote from: Daikun on August 10, 2020, 11:31:21 PMDC is being hit with massive layoffs. Most of the DC Universe staff has been fired. (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/dc-comics-dc-universe-hit-by-major-layoffs-1306743)

DC Universe is confirmed dead. (https://animesuperhero.com/hbo-max-to-absorb-dc-universe)

I think it was pretty obvious that DCU being absorbed into HBO MAX was the only logical solution for a clearly failed streaming platform. Seeing as how I have the latter, this is good news for me.

It's for the best. There are just too many streaming services out, and HBO Max can always use the additional content.

Besides finding a way for the comics library to be available digitally, my main hope is that all of the shows and films on DC Universe make it to Max, not just the new stuff.

Who's ready for the *throws dart at the wall* Peacemaker series? (https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1308805855974834176)

It seems like more than anything, WB is banking on the hope that John Cena's name recognition can be a draw similar to The Rock, regardless of how wooden his acting tends to be. Just like usual, though, WB is jumping the gun by announcing spin-offs to stuff that hasn't even been released yet or proven to be successful. While I have faith in James Gunn to turn in a good movie, it still ends up feeling like WB hasn't really learned from their past mistakes.

Y: The Last Man trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EEQ5Lj-cXM)

I watched a little of Titans out of morbid curiosity, and what the fuck's up with their Bruce Wayne? Anytime he shows up, he has a completely different personality than the last time he appears. Sometimes, he's psychotic and all of Batman's worst impulses. Then other times, he's cuddly Iain Glen who does the Batusi. Not to mention the times where he's Dick's hallucination.

So they change his personality yet again in the season premiere, and the show wants me to think he's Bruce at his worst, a psychotic vigilante who turns innocent kids into child soldiers. Problem is, Jason's an asshole on his own in this show without Bruce's help, and the person explaining why Batman sucks is a cop at the GCPD. And countless Batman stories and adaptations have shown the GCPD as one of the most corrupt police departments in fiction, and the few other good cops who aren't Gordon either leave to become superheroes/vigilantes or die in the line of duty.

Y: The Last Man is cancelled. (https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/y-the-last-man-canceled-fx-one-season-1235091341)

I guess Disney wasn't comfortable airing a DC show, eh?

Peacemaker is definitely not going to be for everyone, but it's old-school James Gunn (more so than even TSS) and it's totally my jam. It feels like a spiritual successor of sorts to Super.

I also like how he's incorporated the soundtrack choices for this show into Peacemaker's actual character.

Yeah, the Super vibes were heavy in the first two episodes I've seen. Hoping Vigilante diverges from being black and blue Deadpool though.

"Having a lesbian haircut doesn't make you an ally."

Yeah, this is pretty good so far.

Another great episode this week. I'm genuinely loving this show in a way that I haven't loved a superhero show since Daredevil. It also really feels like a combination of all of this past work up to this point. The suburban shenanigans of Peacemaker and Vigilante come straight out of Super. The dysfunctional family aspect of the main squad is akin to Guardians of the Galaxy and obviously The Suicide Squad from last year. The grotesque body horror elements of the Butterflies hearken back to Slither. And even the episode titles like: "The Choad Less Traveled" feel like the title to a movie Gunn would have written back in his Troma days.

I also love how he has such a talent for taking B to D list characters from just about any comic book property and making his own versions of them that you can easily care about despite them being messed up, heavily-flawed people. Like, Vigilante is legit my favorite character in the series so far, and probably the entire DCEU, and he's an awful person, but it's also so easy to like him despite all of that.

Yeah, Vigilante's a special guy. It's easy to like him even though he murdered two innocent kids just an episode ago because he's basically a barely-functioning monster in a human suit who at least has some standards, even if they're low bars.

Wasn't actually expecting Peacemaker's dad to put on the costume, but I dig it. He looks like he came out of a Power Rangers episode, and I mean that as a compliment.

And this is like the third time Gunn's used the body snatchers trope, right?

The remake from the 70's is one of his all-time favorite horror movies, so it's no surprise.

I think it's safe to say that this show is my favorite DCEU-related thing to come out so far, easily my favorite live-action superhero show (Daredevil gets edged out by just a bit due to a messy second season), and probably in my top five overall when including some of the animated shows. I absolutely loved the finale.

Spoiler

Miller and Momoa showing up was a shock.

[close]

Watched Flash's finale earlier today, and with that, the end of this bizarre creature called the Arrowverse. Had no idea what was happening since I didn't watch the rest of the season, so I didn't know why most of the main villains up to that point were alive again, or who a third a cast were, or why one of them randomly turned into Caitlin at the end, but as CW finales go, at least it was better than Smallville's where they copped out on showing Tom Welling in a Superman suit, or Supernatural's.

And in all likelihood, it will be less uncomfortable to watch than the new Flash in a few weeks.

Oh yeah, I forgot that the finale aired within the past week. Between that, Succession, Barry, Mrs. Maisel and (maybe?) Ted Lasso, it's been a big week for shows wrapping up.

I think I mentioned this before, but the last times I watched anything from the Arrowverse were Crisis, which reminded me of why I dropped these shows, and the Arrow finale, which reminded me of why I liked them in the first place. I don't see myself ever catching up with or rewatching any of them, however.