While I'm not a fan of every single franchise on the planet trying to form a cinematic Universe, this is totally a thing that's going on right now, whether anyone likes it or not. And since Disney is doing so great with the MCU both financially and critically, and being that The Force Awakens was such a huge hit, I think it's safe to say that the SWCU will most likely have a decent life-span.
On those grounds, I figured that it was worth giving it its own thread for all future Star Wars-related discussions.
On that note, the Rogue One trailer just dropped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji-BZ0oCwg
To be honest, I'm not a big fan of having yet another prequel, and the trailer itself barely shows anything so I'm pretty indifferent to this movie at the moment. However, I will admit to enjoying The Force Awakens a fair amount, even though I didn't love it nearly as much as most other people did, so it's definitely possible to have good Star Wars films again. As for this movie, I think that it has the potential to be good, but I'm still going in with a healthy dose of skepticism. I would of course love to be proven wrong in this regard, though, as always.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cfd7AehUUAAybhS.jpg)
How dare they discriminate against blue people worldwide by casting a white Thrawn? I am so triggered by this that I will consider writing an angry tweet to the official Star Wars twitter before getting bored and doing something more productive.
Oh, so Rogue One is a prequel? I kind of thought so.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgbox.com%2FCBbPBARM.jpg&hash=809c9d56ca1cbcf7fba32a9268da079e398cba5f)
Rian Johnson has listed 6 major influences for the next Episode. (http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/07/17/star-wars-celebration-2016-how-6-movies-might-shape-star-wars-episode-8)
Twelve O'Clock High
Bridge on the River Kwai
Three Outlaw Samurai
Letter Never Sent
Gunga Din
Sahara
Trailer #2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frdj1zb9sMY)
Also, R.I.P. Kenny Baker (http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/13/entertainment/actor-kenny-baker-dies)
Star Storm: The Destruction of Father (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbK49fAuB0U)
Just got back from Rogue One.
We finally got it, you guys--a good Star Wars prequel.
This movie once again reminded me of that age-old question that I've always had about Star Wars since the first time that I saw these movies as a kid: Just what the hell is the point of Storm Trooper armor? Or, really any armor in Star Wars for that point? I mean, it's not like it protects them against blasters or lightsabers. They still get one-shotted just as easily, and if anything, that bright white clunky over-gear arguably makes them easier to spot, slower to maneuver, and just bigger and easier targets in general. And hell, the only people who don't die in one shot in this movie weren't even wearing any armor to begin with!
As for the movie itself, my thoughts are as follows:
-K2SO reminds me HK47 from KOTOR, making him the second best Droid in the Star Wars Universe
-I still like Kyle Katarn more than Jyn Erso
-Ip Man is in this movie!
-CG Peter Cushing looks weird
-James Earl Jones has finally recorded dialogue for the first time in over a decade that isn't doomed to become a ridiculously over-parodied Internet meme
So, overall, it's pretty good.
Quote-James Earl Jones has finally recorded dialogue for the first time in over a decade that isn't doomed to become a ridiculously over-parodied Internet meme
He's recorded lines for Rebels, and little of his dialogue there felt particularly silly. Odd to hear him say Ahsoka's name though, but then seeing TIE Defenders and Dark Troopers in that cartoon felt weird as well.
I got back from watching it, and thought it was cool. Liked it more than The Force Awakens in some parts.
Then I watched Half in the Bag's review of it, and wondered just what they were talking about by saying it sucked because it had too much fanservice and was too different from other Star Wars films. Other than a few glaring elements, it wasn't as fanservice-heavy as TFA was, and criticizing it as too different is hypocritical when remembering their prior Plinkett reviews where they discussed how the prequels took too much from the original films to form their own identity. Just a few minutes apart, they complain that this movie hits too many of the familiar Star Wars beats while also saying it's too experimental. Not helping is Mike saying he just wanted Ocean's Eleven in space and thought the movie didn't have enough jokes. But the biggest issue I had was Rich saying Star Wars was too limited to create more than a few types of stories, because it's a franchise with a million planets. Say what you will about the EU, but they managed to figure out hundreds of ways to tell a Star Wars story in a different way. Some of which were successes like KOTOR II, Darth Bane, and the Thrawn Trilogy. I know that's because of the Red Letter Media guys not giving any spin-off material the time of day, but that's still uninformed to say, especially from people who've spent years making several 90-minute long Star Wars reviews.
Star Wars fans are a fickle bunch. I didn't outright love this movie, and it has its flaws, but it's still miles better than The Force Awakens, IMO.
The biggest flaw I saw was Krennic's character. When people complain about MCU movies having overly simplistic and uncharismatic villains, that was what I felt with Krennic. He felt too one-dimensional and lacked the grandeur other Imperial villains had. Didn't help at all that Tarkin was a major character, because I kept thinking Krennic could have been easily replaced with him for most of his scenes since they had very little difference in terms of personality.
R.I.P. Carrie Fisher
Quote from: gunswordfist on December 27, 2016, 04:29:23 PM
Quote from: Daikun on December 27, 2016, 02:41:03 PM
R.I.P. Carrie Fisher
Yep, yet another down.
Recently checked on Carrie's Twitter account where it's blown up with activity.
This has been one hell of a nasty year for losing many in the world of entertainment.
Can we just skip ahead to 2017 already and leave this year far behind? geeeze..
Quote from: Daikun on December 27, 2016, 02:41:03 PM
R.I.P. Carrie Fisher
She died in moonlight, strangled by her own bra. (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/12/carrie-fisher-dies-strangled-by-bra-wishful-drinking)
This goddamn year, I swear. Well, at least its over soon.
And now her mother Debbie Reynolds has died, from a combination of a stroke and despair over losing a beloved daughter. Horrible.
Oh my..I heard but yeah, that's terribly sad. R.I.P. Debbie Reynolds.
...2016 just wouldn't let us go without more sadness. :( R.I.P to two phenomenal and iconic actresses.
Since Disney and Lucasfilm have firmly stated they will not make a CG Carrie Fisher due to ethics issues, what would be preferable, that they kill Leia off-screen and move her plots in Episode IX to other characters, or recast her with somebody like Meryl Streep or Mary McDonnell?
My money is on them having Leia die off screen to an event not related to the current war. I mean, as selfish as it sound, it is kinda sad that fans will be denied a Kylo Ren and Leia confrontation and it will feel even weirder if they cast someone else as Leia. So I think that moving any other Episode IX events will probably be assigned to other characters is probably the best way to avoid pissing people off.
Episode VIII has an official title.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toonzone.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2Fsplash-starwarsep8-790x494.jpg&hash=ebb85762ae0c3a86d2e1b0335f9f300142343600)
I guess Han Solo isn't his real name now. (http://comicbook.com/2017/03/24/star-wars-han-solo-a-star-wars-story-real-name)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FG6iQq7K.jpg&hash=cd1ae3ef20faceb218aced2c6194fd4f207b2464)
New trailer tomorrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB4I68XVPzQ
New Episode VIII trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0CbN8sfihY)
Mark Hamil's voice sounds so different at this point that I keep forgetting that he's supposed to be Luke.
(https://i.imgur.com/H6i8x22.jpg)
4 more days, I guess.
The famous yellow letters of the opening text crawl slowly recede into the vastness of space. The camera pans down to reveal a large planet and its two moons. Suddenly, a tiny Rebel ship flies overhead, pursued, a few moments later, by an Imperial Star Destroyer—an impossibly large ship that nearly fills the frame as it goes on and on seemingly forever. The effect is visceral and exhilarating.
What's more, the single continuous shot (it lasts about 30 seconds) illustrates both the film's basic storyline, a small band of Rebels fight an evil galactic empire against overwhelming odds, and one of its central themes, the indomitable nature of the human spirit—all without uttering a single line of dialogue. It's a masterful example of visual storytelling.
This is, of course, the opening of Star Wars: Episode IV—A New Hope (1977), arguably one of the most famous opening shots in cinema history, and rightfully so.
Now compare this to the opening of Star Wars: Episode I—The Phantom Menace (1999): The signature opening title crawl slowly disappears into infinity, we pan down, a small spaceship travels quickly past the camera, and then ... lands.
The man behind Red Letter Media's enormously popular video reviews of the prequel trilogy, Mike Stoklasa, probably summed up the feelings that many Star Wars fans had when they saw this for the first time, particularly those who'd waited 16 long years, since 1983's Star Wars: Episode VI—Return of the Jedi, for Menace: "From the very start of [The Phantom Menace] I could tell something was really wrong just by the way it started. It opens with some boring pilot asking for permission to land on a ship that looks like a half-eaten donut, with a donut hole in the middle."
Admittedly, the seemingly bland and uninspired opening of Menace doesn't pack quite the same punch as A New Hope's and instead leaves one feeling a little underwhelmed, to say the least. The problem, though, is that it may not be the fairest of comparisons. Because something really interesting happens when you compare Menace's opening to that of Return of the Jedi's.
In Menace, a Republic space cruiser flies through space towards the planet Naboo, which is surrounded by Trade Federation Battleships. Cut to inside the ship's cockpit. The captain requests permission to board. On the viewscreen, an alien gives the okay. The space cruiser then flies towards a battleship and lands in a large docking bay.
In the opening of Jedi, an Imperial Shuttle exits the main bay of a Star Destroyer and flies towards the Death Star, which looms over the forest moon of Endor. Cut to inside the shuttle's cockpit. The captain requests deactivation of the security shield in order to land aboard the Death Star. Inside the Death Star control room, a controller gives the captain clearance to proceed. The shuttle then flies towards the Death Star and lands in a large docking bay.
As you can see, there are some definite similarities between the two sequences. They both consist of a small ship landing on a spherical battle station that's orbiting a lush, green planet. And they both consist of a similar series of shots.
But, at the same time, there are some clear differences between the sequences. First off, in Menace, the Republic cruiser is a "good guys" ship. In Jedi, the Imperial Shuttle is a "bad guys" ship. Second, outside the cruiser's cockpit window we see the peaceful planet of Naboo whereas outside the shuttle's window we see the partially constructed skull-like Death Star. Third, the screen direction is reversed. The Republic cruiser moves across the frame from left to right, the Imperial shuttle moves right to left. Even some of the camera angles are reversed in a way. The cruiser enters the docking bay in a low-angle shot, the shuttle in a high-angle shot. From this standpoint, then, the two sequences seem almost like mirror images of each other.
Now, the prequels are filled with frequent callbacks to the original films, to be sure, but this seems particularly odd. Assuming it was intentional, why would the opening of Episode I reflect the opening of Episode VI (and at such an incredible level of detail, no less)? It definitely doesn't feel like the usual, run-of-the-mill fanservice that's so common in movies nowadays. Nor does it feel like a traditional framing device, since the beginning of Menace reflects the beginning, rather than the end, of Jedi.
So, is there something going on here? Or is this just a really strange coincidence and I'm reading too much into things?
Unfortunately, Red Letter Media's Menace review doesn't mention anything about the likenesses between the two sequences. The closest thing we get to an explanation is probably Stoklasa's complaint that "Nothing in The Phantom Menace makes any sense at all. It comes off like a script written by an eight-year-old. It's like George Lucas finished the script in one draft, like he turned it in and they decided to go with it, without anyone saying that it made no sense at all, or it was a stupid incoherent mess."
However, in Red Letter Media's review of Star Wars: Episode III—Revenge of the Sith (2005), Stoklasa does offer up two possible explanations for any and all of the similarities between the old films and the new films: "a lack of originality or a lack of vision."
Over a montage showing many of the references to the original trilogy that can be found in the much-maligned prequel trilogy he says, "The new films just borrow and recycle from the original ideas, as if there's no way to create anything new."
But is this really the case?
Anne Lancashire, professor of Cinema Studies and Drama at the University of Toronto (and whose seminal writings on Star Wars form the basis for much of this essay), offers a third, perhaps more thoughtful, possibility that might help shed some light on the matter.
In her 2000 essay, "The Phantom Menace: Repetition, Variation, Integration," she argues that with the prequels, George Lucas was creating something unique in popular film:
Not a series of narratively independent sequels and prequels (the normal mode in movie sequelization), focused on film genre conventions and/or on specific actors/roles, nor an old-fashioned serial with (merely) narratively interlocking episodes, but an epic mythological saga—full of exotic locales and monsters, like the sagas of old—consisting of at least six mutually-dependent parts interrelated in an intricately designed narrative, mythological, and metaphoric whole.
This means that Lucas was expanding the original trilogy into an "epic sextet, with patterns of plot and structure, cinematic allusions, and visual imagery acquiring meaning above all from [their] interrelationships." So, according to Lancashire, each film should be read in terms of its part in the larger, unified whole.
Lucas himself alluded to this in an interview following the release of Star Wars: Episode II—Attack of the Clones (2002): "Each episode has to stand on its own and have meaning on its own—except that it's only one chapter in the book. It's not the book. I can't sacrifice one for the other, so I'm constantly balancing between the now and the larger picture. The now has to be engaging, but the larger picture is what's really important."
Lancashire contends that Lucas began his "carefully designed interrelationships" between the six films by deliberately basing Menace's narrative on A New Hope's:
Anakin Skywalker (eventual father of Luke) is [Menace's] version of A New Hope's Luke, going through narratively similar situations and experiences. Anakin, like Luke, is a young boy on the desert planet of Tatooine, from a "broken" family, who is suddenly given the opportunity to embark on an epic quest involving a beautiful, royal young woman in need of his help and a Jedi knight who becomes his mentor. Like Luke, Anakin accepts the opportunity and is flown through space with his mentor to face a test (for Luke, the Death Star rescue of Leia; for Anakin, a literal test before the Jedi Council). Like A New Hope, the film then ends with the boy's special powers (including his capacity for friendship and love) permitting him to save his friends from annihilation by destroying an enemy battle station. Details of the narrative also correspond from one film to the other: the Jedi mentor's advice to the protagonist to rely on his feelings, the death of the mentor in a light-saber duel, the association of allies with ancient sacred ruins.
Also, as Lancashire points out, in repeating the narrative pattern of A New Hope, Lucas deliberately repeats that film's mythological pattern as well:
Like the plot of A New Hope, that of [Menace] takes us through the three stages of [Joseph] Campbell's monomyth: the hero's departure (on his quest), initiation (testing experiences), and return (the emergence from tests to achieve a final victory). This is also both the plot pattern of each of [Star Wars: Episode V—The Empire Strikes Back (1980)] and [Jedi] (with Empire's "return" phase completed only at the start of Jedi) and, as well, the overarching pattern of the first-made trilogy as a whole (A New Hope as departure. [Empire] as initiation. [Jedi] as return). The integrating viewer can now perceive that Star Wars 1 through 6 will give us the same pattern arching over all six films, in relation to Anakin as hero: with his departure in [Menace], initiation in episodes 2 – 3, and return in 4 – 6 (beginning with his discovery of his son Luke in 4 – 5, and ending with his self-sacrificial death for Luke, and therefore resurrection, at the end of 6).
Repeating the patterns of plot and myth, Lancashire argues, gives the saga, among other things, "a sense of repeating, increasingly complex cycles of human experience," within individual lives, from one generation to the next, and "within the overall movement of Anakin's entire life from boyhood to death."
In addition: "[The repeated patterns] also allow, through variations, an emotionally and intellectually complicating emphasis upon difference and change. The broad pattern of human life, from youth to maturity to death, remains constant, but individual circumstances within the pattern inevitably differ, creating different possibilities and problems."
It's also worth mentioning that the sense of repeating cycles is not only personal, but also political as the films, taken as a whole, reflect the perpetual rise and fall of democracies (the Republic) and dictatorships (the Empire).
Overall, though, Lancashire sees the repetitions as playing a significant part in the design and purpose of the films.
Now, Lucas has spoken often about the use of repetition in Star Wars. He typically puts it in a musical context: "[Star Wars] is purposely written like a piece of music, with themes that repeat themselves in different ways, and ideas that reprise from one generation to the next." However, in The Beginning, a documentary on the making of Episode 1, he instead likens the repetitions to poetry: "Instead of destroying the Death Star [like Luke], [Anakin] destroys the ship that controls the robots. It's like poetry. Every stanza kind of rhymes with the last one."
Consider Mike Stoklasa unimpressed: "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard."
Nevertheless, let's put Stoklasa's personal feelings aside and stick with the rhyming idea for the moment. Now, it should be fairly evident at this point that Menace and A New Hope are intricately woven together. In fact, even the episode titles themselves are connected, both thematically (menace/evil and hope/good) and structurally (article-adjective-noun).
But what about the other episodes?
Well, to take Lucas's poetry analogy one step further, if the Star Wars films are a six-stanza poem, and each film represents one stanza, then the rhyme scheme is ABC A'B'C'. That is, Menace (A) corresponds with A New Hope (A'), Clones (B) corresponds with Empire (B'), and Sith (C) corresponds with Jedi (C'). And as mentioned elsewhere, this is clearly evidenced by comparing the final shots (or almost final, in the case of Empire) of each pair.
So, if we were to examine the other two pairs of corresponding films, we would find that the episodes in each pair are related to each other in much the same way that Menace is related to A New Hope. This, according to Lucas, is done to parallel the journeys of Luke and Anakin: "It's very, very clear in the two trilogies that I'm putting the characters in pretty much the same situations sometimes even using the same dialogue so that the father and son go through pretty much the same experience."
That's all well and good but what about our original question: Why does the beginning of Menace reflect the beginning of Jedi? It's even more confusing now that we know that Menace clearly corresponds to A New Hope.
Are we any closer to explaining it?
No.
Not even close.
Because here's the thing: The "intertextual patternings," while critical to reading the films the way Lucas intended, are actually small pieces of a much larger, more complex puzzle. And while many have unknowingly stumbled upon some of the pieces over the years, no one has discovered the underlying pattern and discussed how all of the pieces fit together and what the completed picture looks like (and possibly represents)—until now.
And it starts with a little-known ancient literary form that scholars have identified as "ring composition."
From millennia-old Chinese writings to the epic poetry of Homer to the Bible, ring composition is a structure commonly found in ancient texts all over the globe—transcending time, culture, and geography. Social anthropologist Mary Douglas explains the technique in her book Thinking in Circles: An Essay on Ring Composition. And for starters, she writes that the form "comes in many sizes, from a few lines to a whole book."
In its simplest and most popular form, it is know as "chiasmus"—a figure a speech in which key words or phrases are repeated in two successive clauses or sentences, but in reverse order. For example, John F. Kennedy's famous line, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." The second clause is a reversal of the first. So, the words are arranged in an ABB'A' fashion: country(A) you(B) you(B') country(A').
A ring composition, according to Douglas, is essentially a "large-scale, blown-up version of the same structure." 18 (It's also commonly referred to as "chiastic structure" or "inverted parallelism.")
Here's how it works:
The story is organized into a sequence of elements that progress from a beginning to a well-marked midpoint. Then, the ring turns and the first sequence of elements is repeated in reverse order until the story returns to the starting point.
That means the first and last elements correspond to each other, the second and second-to-last elements correspond to each other, the third and third-to-last elements correspond to each other, and so on, creating a sort of circle or mirror image. If we assign letters to each element, the pattern is ABC C'B'A' (similar to the JFK example above).
The correspondences between matching elements (or sections) are usually signaled by clusters of key words that appear in both items of a pair. They often indicate thematic links between the sections so "one section has to be read in connection with another that is parallel because it covers similar or antithetical situations." It's similar to the way the rhyme scheme of a poem works, but instead of rhyming sounds, the author parallels and contrasts ideas.
So, by now you're probably wondering what any of this has to do with Star Wars?
Well, as this essay will show, the six Star Wars films together form a highly structured ring composition. The scheme is so carefully worked out by Lucas, so intricately organized, that it unifies the films with a common universal structure (or what film scholar David Bordwell might call a "new formal strategy"), creating a sense of overall balance and symmetry.
At the same time, Lucas's use of this ancient form revises our readings of the films and the saga as a whole, and opens up new ways of thinking about Star Wars. It also allows us to gain a much greater understanding and appreciation for the films, and gives us a deeper sense of the magnitude of Lucas's accomplishment.
Because contrary to Stoklasa's claims that the prequels show a "lack of vision or originality" on the part of Lucas, the ring composition reveals quite the opposite. Lucas's vision is almost startlingly ambitious and, to my knowledge, unlike anything that's ever been attempted before in the history of cinema (proving once again that the six Star Wars films deserve far more serious critical attention than they've received). The word "brilliant" is often overused when discussing movies, but this is one occasion when it's truly warranted.
The Rules of Ring Composition
Douglas provides seven rules for identifying ring compositions. She's quick to point out, however, "they are not rules in the sense of there being something hard and fast about them. Breach carries no penalties, but insofar as they are commonly observed they are like rules. They are responses to the technical problems of coming back gracefully to the start." The rules are as follows:
1. Exposition or Prologue: "There is generally an introductory section that states the theme and introduces the main characters," explains Douglas. "You can call it a prologue. It sets the stage, sometimes the time and the place. Usually its tone is bland and somewhat enigmatic. It tells of a dilemma that has to be faced, a command to be obeyed, or a doubt to be allayed. Above all, it is laid out so as to anticipate the mid-turn and the ending that will eventually respond to it."
2. Split into two halves: The ring composition must split into two halves at the midpoint.
Says Douglas: "If the end is going to join the beginning the composition will at some point need to make a turn towards the start. The convention draws an imaginary line between the middle and the beginning, which divides the work into two halves, the first, outgoing, the second, returning."
3. Parallel sections: The two halves of the ring must be arranged in parallel. According to Douglas, this is done by making separate sections that are placed opposite each other across the central dividing line (one on each side of the ring). "Each section on one side has to be matched by its corresponding pair on the other side."
4. Indicators to mark individual sections: The individual sections of the ring composition must be clearly marked so the reader knows where each section starts and stops.
5. Central loading: Whereas modern stories are usually presented in a clear, linear fashion with the climax occurring near the end, ring compositions tend to place the climax or central crisis of the narrative in the middle (with the parts proceeding the middle moving towards it, and the parts following the middle moving away from it). "One clue that the middle has been reached," says Douglas, "is that it uses some of the same key word clusters that were found in the exposition. As the ending also accords with the exposition, the mid-turn tends to be in concordance with them both. Then the whole piece is densely interconnected." In addition, the most important message of the work tends to be delivered at the turn or the center of the ring.
I'm still amazed by all the people who currently think George Lucas was this pristine auteur worthy of the Criterion, while saying the director of Brick and Looper is a focus-testing fraud.
Just saw The Last Jedi. Had some issues here and there, but overall on first impressions I liked it more than The Force Awakens and a lot more than Rogue One. No, it doesn't even come close to topping The Empire Strikes Back as the best Star Wars film (it kind of baffles me that some people have even claimed that), but I can at least say that it's the most that I've enjoyed anything from this franchise since that entry.
What I respect is that it plays things a lot less safe than the last two Star Wars movies that we got. That said, it did suffer quite a bit from a rather lackluster B-plot-line which really ended up feeling more like filler in-between the stuff that you actually wanted to see.
Mark Hamill stole the show, though. That honestly surprised me as I was skeptical to see if he could possibly turn in a decent performance as a character that he had been pretty disconnected from for decades. That said, he easily had the bulk of the most memorable and engaging scenes in this whole movie, IMO.
So, the short version: I wasn't realky that wowed by anything here, and it has it's fair share of baggage, but I still found more stuff to like than dislike, so it's worth checking out.
Got back from watching it, and it was cool. You can really feel Johnson's touches during the Canto Blight scenes and Benicio Del Toro's character, and I liked how Snoke's base looked like something out of Flash Gordon.
Spoiler
It's a real downer though that Han's dead, Luke's dead, and Leia's likely gonna die off-screen between this and the next movie. With the Rebels only consisting of a couple dozen people, and nobody in the rest of the galaxy is willing to help them outside of some stable kids. I was almost betting on Laura Dern's character taking over Leia's role for the next film, but then she died as well.
Also, I don't think Snoke's dead. We never got any answer as to who the hell he was, and anyone as strong in the Force as him is probably still surviving as a Force Ghost.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on December 15, 2017, 12:58:57 PMGot back from watching it, and it was cool. You can really feel Johnson's touches during the Canto Blight scenes and Benicio Del Toro's character, and I liked how Snoke's base looked like something out of Flash Gordon.
Spoiler
It's a real downer though that Han's dead, Luke's dead, and Leia's likely gonna die off-screen between this and the next movie. With the Rebels only consisting of a couple dozen people, and nobody in the rest of the galaxy is willing to help them outside of some stable kids. I was almost betting on Laura Dern's character taking over Leia's role for the next film, but then she died as well.
Also, I don't think Snoke's dead. We never got any answer as to who the hell he was, and anyone as strong in the Force as him is probably still surviving as a Force Ghost.
Spoiler
I don't know, I actually kind of like the way that Snoke went out as well as the idea of him being one big red herring rather than a clone of Emperor Palpatine. Kylo Ren turning on him by outsmarting his ability to read his thoughts was one of the best scenes in the movie and it would be kind of disappointing to see that be undone.
I was a bit "meh" when it came to Benicio Del Toro's character, myself. Benicio himself is a terrific actor which is why his character was the least bit impressionable at all, but from a story standpoint he really contributed very little for as much as he was hyped up in press releases.
Spoiler
I also notice that people are really angry at Luke's character in this movie, to the point that this movie is getting a rotten score on the Rotten Tomatoes audience ratings. I can kind of understand, since Luke has been the audience surrogate of Star Wars for decades of fans, so depicting him as a half-insane homeless man who drinks milk fresh from an alien's utter and caused the First Order to gain their strongest soldier/eventual leader probably wasn't going to rub people well. It's like telling people "Hey, this childhood icon you looked up grew up to be a horrible failure who only redeemed himself at the end." But I thought it was an interesting change compared to people assuming Luke would be a kindly and whimsical sage in this film.
Once again, Luke's character and the idea that he may not be the saintly hero who can do no wrong that the original trilogy painted him as is, to me, legitimately one of the best aspects of the movie.
Spoiler
And while the scene where Leia flies back to the ship was really stupid, it's a real shame how all these hints that she was in tune with the Force and could eventually become a Jedi herself are now all for nought. Like I bet the rough draft for Episode 9 last year probably had a B-plot where Rey teaches Leia how to wield a lightsaber or something.
As for the general audience reaction to this movie, it's really hard to gauge just from Rotten Tomatoes.
The audience that I attended the movie with was really into it.
Spoiler
The scene where Kylo Ren kills Snoke as well as the scene where it's revealed that Luke is projecting an image of himself with the Force to fight Kylo Ren both got huge rounds of applause from the audience. However, I could see another crowd easily calling BS on both of those things.
Even the user score on Metacritic is split down the middle. (http://www.metacritic.com/movie/star-wars-episode-viii---the-last-jedi) And many of them are also really mad at a certain character's arc.
I just got back from
The Last Jedi. If you're expecting an
Empire Strikes Back kind of tone, this movie is nowhere near as dark. Also, spoiler talk...
Spoiler
Structurally, the film is a mess. Snoke died too damn early. He really seemed like the kind of all-encompassing villain for the final showdown. Instead, now we're stuck with a whimpering, conflicted Vader wannabe in charge of the whole First Order. :bleh:
Also, the movie felt too long. They should've ended the movie when Rey was considering Kylo's offer and the Resistance was wrecked; it was a perfectly pivotal emotional moment. Instead, the movie just goes on for an extra half hour with a far weaker battle scene, which is basically just a carbon copy of Hoth. Not exactly the best way to cap off your "darkest hour" in a trilogy.
Spoiler
Snoke was just a badly done clone of Darth Sidious. People were clamoring to know about his origin yet there was nothing the least bit interesting in him as a character to begin with. Killing him off early was one of the more interesting choices that a Star Wars film has made in a while.
I do agree about the movie feeling too long, though. The Fin and Rose sub-plot could have been cut way down, among other things.
Spoiler
So, is Chewbacca the only one of the OT cast to have had a happier life in the Disney films than he did in the old EU? I know he lost Han, but at least he has Porg buddies now. While old EU Chewie died a horrible death. The rest of the old characters have been given really miserable life situations in this continuity compared to the old one, where Luke was a Jedi Master and teaching a new generation alongside Kyle Katarn, Leia was a Jedi Knight, Han was a General, and they were all keeping the Imperial Remnant on a tight leash compared to how they're dealing with the First Order in the current movies. They all had their angst in the old EU too, like Leia and Han's son still turning to the Dark Side, and all that shit with the Yuuzhan Vong, but it doesn't feel as much of a downer as their situation in the new canon, where they're all dead and the New Republic is in pieces.
Also, I'm noticing people go "Why didn't Holdo just tell Poe her plan so we wouldn't have all that Canto Blight shit?" And while I agree that she was being a jackass there, it's understandable since Poe got their entire bombing squadron and many of their ships killed against Leia's orders. And because Leia's last action before getting attacked was to demote him for that act, he was probably considered too much of a loose cannon to properly discuss this situation with. In fact, when they do tell him about the plan with the transport ships, he holds Holdo at gunpoint and thinks she's betraying the entire Resistance instead of hearing her out regarding Crait.
So, the Shape of Water page on RT inexplicably has rotten audience reviews describing The Last Jedi. (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_shape_of_water_2017/reviews/?page=4&type=user) Either that's people who didn't see the name of the movie they were writing about, or those bot rumors are true.
:thinkin:
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He's not completely wrong. Parts of Attack and Revenge feel like Lucas's attempt to make an allegory for the political climate. Where (the Republic/America) is freaking out over terror attacks, and they prop up a leader (Bush/Palpatine) to do the work, ultimately leading to a costly war (Clone Wars/War on Iraq).
Saw the movie today. I loved, but I can definitely see why fans of the OT characters, and especially the EU, would hate it. What we did get was pretty interesting and I honestly did like Luke's characterization here, especially a certain controversial moment also gave Kylo Ren a lot of much needed pathos other than being a whiny Vader fanboy, speaking of which, Kylo's quickly becoming one of my favorite SW characters because of this movie. There were things I didn't like, Rose was easily the weakest character in the film and the worst character introduced in the ST so far.
Spoiler
I also thought the twist of Benico Del Toro's character selling out the Resistance was lame and predictable, I like the idea of a neutral party in Star Wars so seeing one of the few neutral characters in the movies turn out to be a backstabbing douche was groan worthy, especially since aside from Kylo Ren and maybe Snoke (who I'm sure will return for episode IX somehow) most of the villains are underwhelming as characters as is. Hux is mostly a joke, and Phasma did fuck all except job to Finn and have an awesome entrance.
It's a flawed film to be sure, but no where near as bad as detractors are making it out to be.
In regard to Benicio Del Toro's character:
Spoiler
They made it a point that he wasn't really taking The First Order's side, but just cutting a deal with them to sell out the resistance in order to save his own ass. He's basically taking Lando's role from The Empire Strikes Back, in that he doesn't really care about either side of the opposing forces, but ultimately has to serve the stronger side when he is confronted by them.
Speaking of Del Toro, I missed one of the biggest puns in the movie: That Rose and Finn were looking for an MC, but got a DJ instead.
Surprising noone. Disney threw out the EU because Vector Prime and the New Jedi Order was hot garbage. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2018/01/18/did-chewbaccas-death-reset-the-star-wars-canon/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Szts88zY4o
EDIT: Longer teaser. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNW0B0HsvVs)
Didn't know Emilia Clarke was in this. Thought T5's filming would have made her wary of going into film franchises.
Oh dear God, no. (http://www.starwars.com/news/game-of-thrones-creators-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss-to-write-and-produce-a-new-series-of-star-wars-films)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on February 06, 2018, 03:22:29 PMOh dear God, no. (http://www.starwars.com/news/game-of-thrones-creators-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss-to-write-and-produce-a-new-series-of-star-wars-films)
The main movie trilogy, the Star Wars Stories, and now these.
Slow down, Disney.
Why not just make a TV show to funnel all these project ideas?
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on February 06, 2018, 07:46:09 PMWhy not just make a TV show to funnel all these project ideas?
It looks like they are. (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/live-feed/star-wars-live-action-series-launch-disney-streaming-service-1056755)
Someone made a redeeming analysis of The Last Jedi. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVlicj-JwnI) It's refreshing to watch after seeing so much rage and fury that if you didn't think TLJ was worse than the prequels, people would brand you as a Disney shill.
Good stuff. I loved The Last Jedi and am always happy to see others who felt the same way. :)
Now that the movie is half a year old, and the controversy is still magma hot, I'm at the conclusion that most of the The Last Jedi criticism is rather uncreative and boring. It's always whining about the Holdo subplot, getting mad at Luke being old and angry, or bigoted rants about the women and non-white people in the film. It all comes off as very anal nitpicking, exacerbate by Star Wars fans who are well known for being anal and nitpicky. And when they offer an alternative scenario for The Last Jedi, it's always a vague "why don't they just make new stories" complaint or a suggestion that they should make the film an adaptation of some comic or book from the old expanded universe. Even RedLetterMedia's suggestion that the movie should have been about Rey and Kylo joining forces and creating a new form of understanding for the rest of the galaxy was dumb. Because that's the Kira and Lacus plot of Gundam Seed. And that plot was awful.
It's bewildering that there's now a bunch of Star Wars fans who are willing to suspend their disbelief at many of the prequels' flaws, but then constantly ask "Why didn't Holdo tell Poe about her plan?" or "Why did Rose save Finn from sacrificing his life when that contradicts what Holdo said about sacrificing lives?" The seething nitpicking and hatred is at such a level that it's now the fan consensus that The Last Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie of all time, that Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy should hang themselves in shame for their "crimes" against true Star Wars fans. Now we're supposed to treat the vitriol of Star Wars fans like they're valid criticism? The same people who gave death threats to George Lucas only to want him back a decade later, or ruin Jake Lloyd's life so much he turned into a schizophrenic wreck? Star Wars fans are always in this cycle where they hate and despise the current thing coming out, but then view it like a treasure years afterward. Like when The Clone Wars was met with disdain when the first season aired, and even accusations of homophobia because of that one gay Hutt in the movie, but now it's treated like a masterpiece. Even that shitty Dark Empire comic where Luke turned to the Dark Side and the Emperor came back as a clone is now viewed with welcoming eyes. It's all such a joke, and seeing the same exact people who treated George Lucas like he was a monster for ruining their precious franchise now starting up online petitions to bring him back? Forgetting that the merchandising and oversaturation of Star Wars material has been flowing for decades? Forgetting the Pizza Hut Phantom Menace pogs, the Count Dooku lunchboxes, the Kinect game, and even the Holiday Special were all produced under his watch? That's the punchline.
Here's my two-cents on The Last Jedi:
It works as a movie in and of itself. What I mean is that Rian Johnson crafts an interesting story that, while not perfect, successfully manages to tell a full story that fully explores and breaks down the themes of the Star Wars mythos, but rather than rehashing the same message he re-interprets it, showing some of the flaws of the old characters and their beliefs, while still reinforcing what makes them such compelling heroes in the first place.
That said, I can't deny that there is some validity to the argument that from the viewpoint of this being the middle chapter of a new story arc, it feels rather out of place in how it throws many elements in The Force Awakens out the window in favor of a completely new vision. I personally don't mind this since I'm not the biggest fan of The Force Awakens to begin with, but I can see how people who got invested in that movie, as well as who had their own visions for how the old characters should be, would be displeased with this re-interpretation of the things that they held in such high regard.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfdltj1U8AEw2lN.jpg)
Here's Lucas' idea of what his sequel trilogy would have been.
So, basically he would make a movie about midichlorians as actual characters? So, like, Osmosis Jones: Star Wars edition?
I can't wait to see the crazy fanboys who adore the prequels and believe Lucas can do no wrong defend this one.
Episode IX trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs)
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/930/1421657233490.jpg)
R.I.P. Peter Mayhew (https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/2/18527493/peter-mayhew-chewbacca-wookiestar-wars-empire-strikes-back-return-of-the-jedi-obituary)
Well, while we debate in the comic book movies thread about who holds most fault for the treatment of Stan Lee in his final few years (hint: any and all parties involved) and berate Disney for their modern day corporate cynicism, allow me to further indulge in said corporate cynicism.....that segway sounds fucking horrible now that I type it out....
Anyways, trailer just dropped: https://youtu.be/aOC8E8z_ifw
I have to admit, I had zero interest in this project going in since despite it's title, I only care about Mandalorians from The Old Republic lore. That said, this has seemingly feature-film level production value for a direct-to-streaming show. I also really like the visual framing of some of these shots. While I vastly prefer the MCU's output to modern Star Wars if I'm being honest, I have to give the Star Wars side of Disney credit for seemingly allowing it's filmmakers more creative freedom in their directing styles and choices in cinematography. Though, apparently not too much creative freedom considering that Lord and Miller got fired from Solo for being "too weird."
I'm a big Fett/Bounty Hunter fanboy, so this shit is right up my alley. TBF, it's honestly the only Star Wars thing I've been particularly been looking forward to, fun space-faring adventures and cool battles are the only things I care for in Star Wars.
I really hope this isn't another case like Rogue One where the trailer looks awesome and the finished product ends up boring the shit out of me, but The Mandalorian looks pretty great, and the production values/filmmaking give me hope that Disney will continue releasing good streaming series like the Netflix ones from the past few years despite everything.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2019, 09:13:31 PM
Well, while we debate in the comic book movies thread about who holds most fault for the treatment of Stan Lee in his final few years (hint: any and all parties involved)
Correct!
You know, Pirates of the Caribbean 2 and 3 were pretty dumb movies. Sure, they were fun, and the main antagonist stole every scene he was in, but the story is so insane. Characters coming back from the dead for no real reason. Villains turning into heroes than back to villains in only a couple scenes, then getting killed because the films found another underused British actor to be a side villain. A travel plot with fun visuals and some decent world-building but little that develops the characters the studio spent three movies on. All culminating in a final battle where the brooding lead gives up his life for his girlfriend, but he's undead now, so it's okay. They even bury some treasure, to remind you how far and how little the cast have learned throughout their journeys, with the emphasis on the little.
Oh, silly me. This is the wrong thread. I'm sure nothing I described above also applies to Rise of Skywalker.
Rise of Skywalker was bad. Like, not Phantom Menace bad, where the movie is just badly made, but more like Disney panic mode bad where they tried so hard to cram so much story and fan-service into one movie to try and appease people after The Last Jedi was so polarizing, that not only did they just flat out ignore that movie's existence, but made a movie that essentially tried to be two J. J. Abrams sequels in one. Also, a lot of the plot twists in this movie are so fucking stupid that I legitimately wonder if they were done ironically as a fuck you to the fans for all of the backlash from previous movies.
Essentially we got a pretty incoherent mess of a movie. I had mixed feelings on TLJ, but I would have much rather had them commit to that direction than give us what we got here.
I think it's safe now to declare Disney's Star Wars a failed experiment.
The Force Awakens was just average; a retread of the previous films.
Rogue One had spectacular action scenes, but cookie-cutter characters.
The Last Jedi was an overblown mess.
I ignored Solo since TLJ left a bad taste in my mouth and after hearing the polarizing opinions of The Rise of Skywalker, it's pretty clear that Disney has no idea what they're doing.
EDIT: A few days later, the opinions seem to be less "polarizing" and really more negative.
Oh, wait. They kinda do. They mainly bought Lucasfilm to make bank on the merchandise. They don't really have a clear roadmap or vision for Star Wars, unlike the MCU.
I still say, on average, the sequels were better than the prequels. And from everything I've heard of what Lucasfilm planned to do with Star Wars had Disney not bought the license, like Star Wars: Detours or Lucas' midichlorian-heavy sequels, I don't think the alternative would have been preferable.
People give the MCU (and Kevin Feige) shit for being too heavy on using current movies to build up other movies. To an extent I can agree with that criticism in certain cases, like in Age of Ultron when it was overdone to the point of disrupting the flow and pacing of that movie's story. However, I'd also argue that they've gotten better at doing that over time to the point where it comes off as more seamless story-telling between movies that paints a much larger picture when viewed as a whole. Civil War did a great job of setting up Black Panther and Spider-Man (and technically the new Black Widow movie coming out) while also setting the stage of the MCU for Infinity War and Endgame. It's that kind of vision that made the build-up for those movies feel worth it, and the payoff lived up to that build-up for the most part.
Star Wars, at least the main Episode 7-9 trilogy, could have really benefited from that unifying vision. You could've still allowed for more tonal variety and have different directors on board, but make sure they are building towards the same goal. Instead, we got an alright first movie that was mostly set-up, a polarizing second movie that tossed out most of that set-up, and a hot mess of a third movie which was completely reactionary to the fallout of the second one, that literally ignores almost all of it's plot points which itself refuted the first film. This movie feels like Abrams tried to cram a whole new saga of Star Wars movies into one.
It really hits at it's worst when the movie tries desperately to have it's emotional beats. Literally none of them work. Kylo's arc doesn't have nearly enough time to breathe to make his development in this film feel natural. Rey, Finn, and Poe barely interacted that much in the previous two movies, so that sense of comradery that the movie wants to convince you that they have falls flat. Their big "emotional" group hug at the end feels so forced and disingenuous. And Emperor Palpatine isn't even a character in this movie. He's a plot function that was clearly thrown in at the last minute because Rian Johnson got rid of the guy who was clearly meant to be the main antagonist.
And the desperate fan-service constantly being thrown at us was cringe-worthy. Again, Infinity War and Endgame were also crammed with fan-service, but those movies actually earned those moments through the story-telling of previous films, while also integrating them into their stories in clever ways for the most part. It resonated because beyond being fan-service, those spots and moments had an extra layer of meaning behind them for fans. The fan-service in TROS was literally the exact thing that 'member berries were created to mock.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on December 20, 2019, 06:34:04 PMI still say, on average, the sequels were better than the prequels. And from everything I've heard of what Lucasfilm planned to do with Star Wars had Disney not bought the license, like Star Wars: Detours or Lucas' midichlorian-heavy sequels, I don't think the alternative would have been preferable.
As much as I have massive issues with the sequel trilogy, the plethora of idiots who have convinced themselves that the prequels were actually good genuinely astonishes me. They were pieces of shit back then, and they still suck today. The new movies having their own slew of problems doesn't somehow make Midichlorians or Anakin monologuing about sand some kind of writing genius all of a sudden.
I have mixed feelings on TLJ, but you'd have to be doing some pretty hardcore mental gymnastics to claim that it's a worse movie than something like TPM.
And all of this criticism of how Disney has made Star Wars more about commercialism and merchandising to make money is genuinely hilarious to me. First of all: no shit, Disney is a business and they have literally done this for decades. It's also funny, though, because the idea that Star Wars was somehow less commercialized in Lucas's hands is some of the most downright willful ignorance that I've ever seen. Do a quick Google or YouTube search and you'll find literally dozens upon dozens of commercials and ads for hundreds of different Star Wars products being marketed to tie in with the prequel movies, not to mention the various video games and Extended Universe content of that era.
Like, people can enjoy or dislike whatever they want, but pretending like Star Wars (or any big franchise) being milked as products by corporations is somehow a new concept is like pretending that Donald Trump is the first shady and unethical President that we've ever had.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 20, 2019, 09:31:10 PM
And Emperor Palpatine isn't even a character in this movie.
While Palpatine's an entertaining villain to watch, he's never been a deep character. Not just in the movies, but in both expanded universes, he's always been a single-minded character who never had any real interests outside of killing people, corrupting people, and taking power. Sure, he was always meant to be a force of nature instead of a character we're supposed to see in our own shoes, but even Hitler had hobbies, interests, and loves in his life. Maybe it's the fault of previous SW media for doing nothing to expand Palp's personality or life so it could have sounded natural here, but TROS' big reveal is soap opera in its execution. And that's saying something for a franchise with more bad plot twists than good.
And though I agree the sequels could have used a unifying vision, I can understand the hesitancy since the prequels had an ending in mind from the very beginning, for Anakin to become Darth Vader, yet they screwed that up. Also because the producers behind the MCU only figured out where they were going to take the Infinity arc some time after the first Avengers movie came out. Whedon said in an interview he put Thanos in the post-credits scene without any long-term goal in mind. I think Lucasfilm let every sequel director wing it because that's pretty much how Lucas handled the original trilogy, but the studio forgot there was a lot of trial and error there (so much it ruined Lucas' marriage) and made the larger story an odd watch (ESB and ROTJ retroactively turn Obi-Wan into a habitual liar who withheld some really useful information from Luke).
When I say unifying vision I don't necessarily mean that every step had to be planned out from the get-go. I'm aware that the MCU had a lot of writers winging it all the way through the Infinity Saga. That said, Feige worked with the various writers and directors to make sure that their vision would progress toward the goals he had in mind for the franchise, and through that was able to build a satisfying arc of movies leading to a solid conclusion. It's fine to not have had a definitive conclusion in mind when they were making TFA, but by TLJ it may have helped if Kathleen Kennedy had made sure that the movie was building toward some sort of conclusion rather than just doing it's own thing when it was clearly the middle chapter of a trilogy. I don't have any issue with Rian Johnson making the kind of movie that he wanted to make, but undoubtedly it works better as a stand-alone affair than as part of an established mainline series.
Makes you wonder how Colin Trevorrow would have handled Episode IX, before Lucasfilm fired him after seeing the reactions to Book of Henry.
Rewatching the prequels have given me a newfound appreciation for them. Sure most attempts fall flat on its face but moments like the Opera scene and Shmi Skywalker's death and fallout are really well executed (well, barring some hokey dialogue in the latters case) and it has some of my favorite fights and set-pieces across all the trilogies. Even crap like the Midiclorians I don't mind too much as it's really just your average science fantasy trope that bridges the two genre's Star Wars has always mixed.
The sequels, while incredibly well acted and objectively better dialogue than anything Lucas can write, just seem to lack any of those awesome set pieces and wow moments. To put it simply: while they don't inherit any of the prequel's flaws, they don't inherit their few strengths either. And it's not like the franchise can't deliver those moments anymore because the Darth Vader scene at the end of Rogue One was the most hyped I've ever been in a theatre, despite that movie ultimately being a weaker product that TFA and TLJ. The lack of a "cool" character for me to latch on to also doesn't help.
Still haven't seen Rise (planning to sometime this week) but I have read most of the major spoilers and they're not exactly filling me with hope.
I totally understand why someone would dislike the Disney Star Wars movies but I do feel like a lot of the prevailing criticisms of The Last Jedi are bad faith arguments that misunderstand the core of the film's storytelling. Yes, it did throw away Snoke, but he wasn't exactly much of a character in The Force Awakens to begin with, and it was in service of making Kylo Ren a more interesting/intimidating villain who could finally step out of Vader's shadow. Canto Bight has pacing issues and barely impacts the main plot, certainly, but that's not exactly a new thing for the series - The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are like 60-70% disconnected character development/world building-driven tangents in a similar vein but with much worse acting, writing, and cinematography. Luke's portrayal as a cynical, disillusioned hermit was one of the few ideas actually taken from George Lucas' Episode 7, and Mark Hamill was absolutely incredible in the role, completely stealing the show (at least for me); sure, he doesn't go out in a blaze of glory cutting down a million Snoke clones like the fans wanted, but his death was still heroic and badass. I know I'm probably alone in this opinion but it's easily the most cohesive and well-realized Star Wars movie since Return of the Jedi if not Empire Strikes Back. I had an incredible time watching it in the theater (twice!), and I remember leaving that first screening excited and optimistic for the future of the franchise. If they had actually gone with Rian Johnson's treatment for Episode 9 (and I know they couldn't because of Carrie Fisher's passing, RIP) instead of letting Reddit and Twitter indirectly write the script, I'm confident the whole trilogy would have come together much better than it did.
(https://preview.redd.it/0g56zo5bvx541.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ceb3e386f0c475f14f5ab84ffdcb7fa2bdcf27f9)
Remember this old fan poster someone made as soon as the cast was announced? And the only prediction the poster got right was Finn using a lightsaber once.
Congrats to Nerd Soup for predicting the future. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzG3m-ZW198)
Came across a really good video about the production mess behind the scenes of The Rise of Skywalker: https://youtu.be/DBExyfw8mXk
It's the kind of movie that you can tell even the filmmakers knew was not going to turn out right by the time of it's release, and I figured that it went through re-writes, but not nearly as much as detailed in this video.
It's one of those cases where there were definitely people behind the scenes with good intentions who wanted to tell a good story, but several different parties couldn't seem to agree on what exactly that story should have been, leading to this mess that was rushed out at the 11th hour.
Why did Kenobi's premiere need 2 recaps to explain the Prequels? I was fine with the show opening with one, but then Obi-Wan has to have another one via nightmare.
James Earl Jones has retired as the voice of Darth Vader. (https://twitter.com/ToonRaiderXD/status/1573460922970021888)
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 21, 2022, 09:56:26 PM
Came across a really good video about the production mess behind the scenes of The Rise of Skywalker: https://youtu.be/DBExyfw8mXk
It's the kind of movie that you can tell even the filmmakers knew was not going to turn out right by the time of it's release, and I figured that it went through re-writes, but not nearly as much as detailed in this video.
It's one of those cases where there were definitely people behind the scenes with good intentions who wanted to tell a good story, but several different parties couldn't seem to agree on what exactly that story should have been, leading to this mess that was rushed out at the 11th hour.
I agree that Rise of Skywalker was a mess. I know it's nothing new to say this, but I do think the sequel trilogy as a whole didn't work out. But even compared to the other sequels, Episode 9 feels like a hodgepodge of everything that internet Star Wars fans asked for after Last Jedi.
I don't hate every aspect of the sequel trilogy at all, but I do think it's less than the sum of its parts. I wouldn't say its worse than the prequel trilogy, but even that trilogy at least had a vision that it stuck to.
As for the Star Wars shows, I love the Mandalorian. It's my favorite thing to come out of Disney Plus. But I aven't been too impressed by the rest. Boba Fett was dull and really not the show that I think people had been asking to get from this character, and Obi-Wan wasn't as good as it could've been (although I did thoroughly enjoy the finale). So far, Andor is a step up, but it hasn't blown me away just yet.