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Other Entertainment => Comics / Manga => Topic started by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 05, 2011, 11:35:44 PM

Title: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 05, 2011, 11:35:44 PM
Why would I create a topic for this guy?

Well, let's see:

Is it because I think he's an awesome manga writer? Yes, for the most part.

Is he as good as people like Naoki Urasawa? No, definitely not.

Is he a lazy ass-hole? Yes, especially with Hunter X Hunter.

So then why do I still hold him in such high regard? Because as much as he can piss me off with his laziness, he's the best damn thing to have ever happened to shonen, IMO. Better than even Akira Toriyama and Eichiro Oda combined, as far as I'm concerned (and I have a lot of respect for those 2 mangaka, BTW; just for the record).

As for Yu Yu Hakusho, there isn't much that I can say that I haven't already said about how I feel about it at least a thousand times already. I think its the best shonen series, period. As for the Hunter X Hunter fans who hate on it and say that it was a product of Togashi's inexperience at the time before he became a better writer, they are all idiots. They overrated HXH as if it were some deep and provocative series in comparison, when its far from that and has its own share of flaws. That said, I also should mention that this is coming from someone who really enjoys that series, as well.

I should probably mention that I can understand Desensitized's dislike for HXH, as it never used to click with me, originally. In fact. I couldn't see why people liked it so much, and I was initially disappointed with it....but part of that was because I was expecting something like YYH from Togashi rather than him trying something completely different. Once I got over that and gave the series another fair shot on its own terms, I really came to appreciate it for what it was and I enjoyed it own its own merits. Its a very creative series with an interesting wold and design that isn't the least bit afraid to be dark when it needs to me, but can be equally as humorous and light-spirited. Its a very enjoyable series due to its dynamic characters and how masterful Togashi is as writing the interactions between characters and in this case even giving them a lot of development.

Let me say that Killua is probably the single most interesting character that Togashi has ever written if you pay close attention to his development when he hangs around Gon, the main character (and there are a ton of subtle touches to how he slowly starts changing that I didn't notice the first time around when I was watching the series, initially). By contrast, though, Gon is kind of a boring main character. He improves later on in the series, but I find myself highly indifferent to him in comparison to the rest of the cast for the most part, mainly because Togashi surprisingly makes the supporting characters way more interesting than the main one. Gon really serves more as a device for other characters to compare themselves to, as many of them take an immediate liking to Gon for being a sort of calming agent for them, and in that regard he is at least far more interesting than most of the brash and brainless protagonists that plague most modern shonen series. Gon is actually far from the strongest and doesn't even care about strength. His role is that of a natural born mediator and tactician (in how he usually resolves conflicts with his brains and wits rather than his strength and combat skills, which he doesn't have very much of) rather than a pure-bred fighter.

Overall Hunter X Hunter is certainly a more ambitious series than YYH and is more impressive and better-written in certain aspects, but its a long-shot away from being as good as YYH in the long-run because with YYH Togashi crafted a much more consistently-paced story where all of the characters were interesting, instead of just some of them.

Oh, and also, just out of curiosity, am I the only one watching the Level E anime, here? I read the manga and enjoyed it but felt it had a weird quality to it due to Togashi's various inconsistencies with the series that kind of pulled me out of the experience. I feel that the anime has done a great job so far of fixing those problems and completely weeding them out of the mix, for the most part. Also, anyone who has read chapter 4 of the manga or has respectively watched episode 4 of the anime should see clear proof in that one-shot short story that Togashi does indeed have the writing talent to take on a science-fiction noir story, or just any kind of noir in general, as far as I'm concerned. The guy just has brilliant ideas, and can usually execute them to an equal level of brilliance.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on February 05, 2011, 11:54:51 PM
I really, really, wish this guy wasn't so lazy. He has great ideas, and usually great execution, but if he would apply himself more I'm sure we'd have a lot more great material from him than what we have.

HxH... I dunno. I tried to get into it, and while I liked it to an extent in how different it was, I think it kind of lost a bit as it went on. Like, the enemies were WAY too overpowered 3/4 of the time, good characters were pushed to the side (Leo Rio was awesome), it started getting dragged out, and... it never felt like the characters got any closer to their goal. Which kind of made me lose interest.

But that was a long time ago when I stopped reading, so I might be misremembering or something, but I just don't think it stacks up to YYH... Even the manga version.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 06, 2011, 12:08:18 AM
Quote from: Desensitized on February 05, 2011, 11:54:51 PM
HxH... I dunno. I tried to get into it, and while I liked it to an extent in how different it was, I think it kind of lost a bit as it went on. Like, the enemies were WAY too overpowered 3/4 of the time,

You see, this is a problem that I used to have with the series, but here's the thing, upon going through it again I found it to be brilliant. Ever notice how the point of this is that it always puts the heroes at the disadvantage and forces them to really use their wits just to survive? Its honestly a great touch, and makes it way more interesting than the battles would be if the heroes fought on even levels with the bad guys. And really, when it comes down to it the enemies aren't as overpowered as much as they just are more skilled and experienced, since they are usually a lot older than the main characters who fight them, which makes sense. And, on top of all of that, its not like the heroes always lose. In fact, when they finally succeed it feels all the more rewarding considering the insanely difficult odds that they were able to overcome. I honestly don't see this as a flaw at all, anymore. On the contrary, it makes the series more interesting if anything.

Quotegood characters were pushed to the side (Leo Rio was awesome), it started getting dragged out, and... it never felt like the characters got any closer to their goal. Which kind of made me lose interest.

Well, Kurapika pretty much already reached his goal (granted that it was hinted at forever that Kuroro could undo what he did), and I honestly liked how he was completely reliant on outsmarting his enemies. He couldn't have taken on Ubo at all, but managed to defeat him at the cost of putting heavy restrictions on his abilities that risked his life, and he ultimately had to settle for removing Kuroro's powers rather than killing him to complete his revenge because he had developed into caring more about his friends thanks to Gon, and that was clearly a touch decision for him to make, but it was great because it showed how much he had changed.

QuoteBut that was a long time ago when I stopped reading, so I might be misremembering or something, but I just don't think it stacks up to YYH... Even the manga version.

I think that the manga only really develops its problems at the Chimera arc, but I still think its a great shonen manga nonetheless. To be truthful, despite its annoying hiatuses, I still think its leaps and bounds against most currently running battle manga that are running today, despite its own faults.

This is coming from someone who used to feel the same way about the series, though I should mention that, with the exception of the Greed Island OVAs, I feel that this was yet again another case of an anime adaptation substantially improving upon Togashi's already good source material. It added a lot of really nice subtle touches into the mix, and for what its worth the English dub gets a lot better around the 2nd half of the series when the VAs get more accustomed to performing as their respective characters.

Also, while I agree wholeheartedly that Yu Yu Hakusho is by far Togashi's superior work, I still honestly stand by my opinion that Killua is the most interesting character that Togashi has ever written, especially when paying close attention to the subtle touches in his overall development that Togashi wrote in for him.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Foggle on February 06, 2011, 01:23:38 AM
Togashi is a total badass. Like Rikudou Koushi, he's not exactly a household name, but his work easily surpasses that of most household names (barring, perhaps, Urasawa, of course). Yu Yu Hakusho is fucking awesome and the little I've seen of Level E makes it apparent that it's truly a breath of fresh air as far as modern anime go (even if the original work is fairly old).

I still need to read Hunter X Hunter. Let me know next time he comes off hiatus and I'll start! :)
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 06, 2011, 01:53:44 AM
The thing I like about Level E is how sharply it contrasts most of the modern comedy anime of today (you can tell that its based off of an older series with a much different mentality for comedy based off of that alone). Whereas most modern anime comedies are just MOE except with the girls talking in extra-squeaky voices because apparently that makes weaboos giggle, Level E is a fun comedy that happens to have a lot of subtle jokes underneath its more obvious ones. It has a bizarre quality akin to the Excel Saga anime, but is also split up into arcs which all have some sort of central theme to them, and all of them can be highly misleading. If you watch the first episode of the series, it looks like it might be an OK boy meets alien story. You watch the 2nd episode and think that it is turning into a decent Fumoffu-esque comedy. Then you watch the 3rd episode and realize that Togashi just trolled your ass. Pretty fun shit, IMO. :D

And Foggle, if you're ever going to see HXH, I'd probably recommend the anime over the manga, because at least it has a clear point that you could stop at (and while I can get over it, it might bother you that Togashi's artwork is pretty horrendous....the guy knows how to write good material....but he can't draw to save his life, honestly :P ).
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 18, 2011, 01:32:03 PM
So, just randomly felt like asking this question, but what do people think of Togashi's general art style? Now, keep in mind that art style isn't the same thing as artwork. As many have pointed out, Togashi can often get quite lazy and it will show in his art when it turns out all sloppy, and since this is one of the only few mangaka who downright refuses to work with any assistants, there isn't really anybody around to fix his sloppiness (not that he gives a rats-ass).

At any rate, his art style tends to differ from the norm, not to the same extent that someone like Oda's would, but its still different none-the-less. Out of all of his works not counting his pre-YYH one-shots, Yu Yu Hakusho tends to be his work that is the closest to looking like a normal series, but even that (at least when you view the manga) has its own peculiar style to it that kind of sets it apart even from its contemporaries in the shonen manga genre like Dragon Ball and such (well, DB is a bit of a stretch as a contemporary, but it was still running around the same time even though it was already nearing the end of its run when YYH was just getting started up).

As for Level E, the manga for that doesn't even look like a manga. Hell, if the thing read from left to right, it would easily pass as some American (or just some general Western) comic book that nobody would guess was really a manga until they saw some of the jokes. That said, I have to say that Level E is way too inconsistent with its art design, so I'm glad that Togashi went with his more trademark style with HXH.

Now, some people will say that Togashi's artwork is bad. When he's being sloppy, then yeah, I have no arguments there, but as for his general artwork for the most part, I disagree with that sentiment. His artwork is just way more simplistic in technique and execution than most other shonen series, but when he's not being sloppy, I often find that I really like that simplistic design of his. It just has a very appealing feel to it and if nothing else its much easier to follow action scenes and keep track of everything that's going on in general because he doesn't try to over-detail every little thing, which other shonen authors try to do but don't realize that they are kind of bad at since half the time I can't tell what the fuck they drew in one panel because its way too obscured by an unnecessary effect or a bunch of other things.

Also, I have to admit, I like when Togashi has some silly artwork that he intentionally drew to be over-the-top and just plain silly. It feels like there is some good humor behind is art and that he is completely self-aware that he's not talented at drawing, so I kind of like his self-sense of humor in his art, and at the same time I feel that his work still has some earnest heart to it, unlike other series which you can say have better artwork but their style just feels lacking and downright bland (stuff like Bleach and HSDK, IMO). Now of course, he has tons of times when his artwork is silly just because he's lazy and sloppy, but there are other times when I have to admit I just love it, like in some of his wacky yet still fun-looking cover designs for Hunter X Hunter.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51s0ZheE0IL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZHGX4D31L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

And then he has some of his completely opposite, more serious artwork, like this:

(http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/bestselling-comics-2006/1610-1.jpg) (http://www.faraoscigarer.dk/Content/photos/Manga/SEP084337_large.jpg) (http://stochasticmanga.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/levele.jpg?w=490)

Well, IDK, being the Togashi fan that I am I just take a personal interest in his art style. The guy's artwork is admittedly inconsistent as hell and he's actually by far one of Shonen Jump's worst mangaka in terms of art talent, but at the same time I actually find the actual art style of his manga interestingly appealing, or at least more so than the plethora of generic stuff out there. At any rate, I was bored and didn't have anything else to talk about, which is why I brought this up. :P
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Foggle on February 18, 2011, 01:38:25 PM
Nice detail on the HxH vol. 11 and Level E vol. 1 covers! Good stuff. ;D
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on February 18, 2011, 02:55:32 PM
Well I've only seen YYH so I have nothing but love for the guy. I do want to check out Hunter X Hunter.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on February 19, 2011, 12:27:04 AM
I like his art style, but I think he needs more assistants. IIRC, it was stated that he doesn't use them which is why he is able to take so many breaks. It tends to show, since the characters frequently are more detailed than the backgrounds are.

He is a good artist and storyteller overall, though.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 19, 2011, 01:15:57 AM
I noticed that his artwork in the last 20 chapters that he made for Hunter X Hunter before his latest hiatus actually had really good artwork, at least by his standards. I kind of wish that he was always that consistent with his art, but either way I'm still pretty pisses that the guy won't even give anyone a good reason for why he always needs a hiatus. There are other mangaka who work without assistants who still don't take breaks as long as he does. What also ticks me off is that he seemed to be falling into a trap that most shonen writers would fall into, but considering how experienced he is in the genre its quite surprising. In this case he has been dragging out what is essentially a single major arc for way too long. Since its Togashi is writing is still interesting, but I really kind of want to see him come to a conclusion, especially since his set-up for what would come is already really great. Also, I really want to see him involve Leorio and Kurapika in the story again, characters that many fans of HXH got fully invested in only to shove them both aside after Kurapika's story arc was "supposedly" resolved.

No matter what anyone else says I still think that the guy is a talented story-teller and overall writer, even now, but the fact that he can't stay consistent with his work really ticks me off. I know that he doesn't like to work with assistants, but if that's the case then he should at least release the HXH chapters on a bi-weekly or even a monthly basis rather than just making people wait years for a cluster of chapters. At least that way the releases will be neatly spaced out rather than being so inconsistent and unpredictable.

Anyways, I thought it would be interesting to bring up that I read somewhere that apparently Yoshihiro Togashi never wanted to do battle manga in the first place (even though he's miraculously good at it), and kind of had to be dragged into doing it by his editors. I believe that he had personally just wanted to do gag manga all along (at least during the time he made Yu Yu Hakusho). I suppose Hunter X Hunter was actually his first serious attempt at doing a battle/adventure manga, but ironically I feel that he somehow managed to make Yu Yu Hakusho a more entertaining series, though his efforts with working on HXH still definitely payed off.

One thing that I feel regarding the anime adaptations of Togashi's work, though, is that the guy gets damn lucky with who chooses to be responsible for adapting his manga. In all 3 cases, Yu Yu Hakusho, Hunter X Hunter, and Level E (at least so far), have superior anime adaptations to their manga counterparts, IMO. That isn't to undermine the value of Togashi's work, as its irreplaceable in how unique his own manga feel in comparison to their respective anime adaptations, but even so, I feel that the adaptations of his works are among the few cases in which the writers and directors of the anime actually really give a crap about his stories, and aren't just copying and pasting every little thing that he does for a quick cash-in, but rather changing around bits and pieces and modifying aspects of his material in their own ways, which to be honest seem to better suit each respective series, most of the time.

I especially like the subtle touches of added sequences by the Hunter X Hunter TV series director Kazuhiro Furuhashi (who also worked on the Rurouni Kenshin anime, primarily for the Kyoto arc) that contain little to no-dialogue yet add a lot of emotion to the characters and to the overall impact of some of the more dramatic moments in the series. The animation crew for HXH deserve especial praise for how well they handle the facial expressions of the characters allowing them to convey emotions through the artwork and animation rather than having to use verbal ques to state how they feel all the time. I actually like how the HXH anime treats its audience with more intelligence than the average shonen series, not just stooping down to explaining every little detail, purposely leaving in some subtle touches in terms of character emotions or foreshadowing, and not over-explaining the crap out of everything unless it needs to be explained to the viewers in great depth (such as the concept of Nen).

As for Yu Yu Hakusho, I could fill in a whole article worth of stuff on the additions and changes and overall tweaks that I love in the anime adaptation of the series, but I'll refrain for that for now. Either way, no matter what anyone else says, even if they think YYH really isn't anything above the level of a genric and forgettable shonen, nobody can deny that the people involved with making that anime cared a lot about how it turned out and put a lot of heart and effort into working on it. It really shows in how well executed the entire series is, for the most part.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 03, 2011, 12:22:50 AM
I have to admit, the anime adaptations of Togashi's material really improve upon his original material (for the most part, anyways). The HXH anime is handled almost masterfully in later episodes, and I have been enjoying the Level E anime significantly more than the manga. As for YYH, its pretty obvious by now that the anime stays faithful to the manga while using its minimal amounts of filler material to enhance the quality of the story rather than hamper it.

I have to say, though, if Togashi was ever to do another series, I'd want him to make most of the series itself based more off of the type of material he has present in the Chapter Black arc from YYH mixed in with the York Shin City arc from HXH. Those 2 particular arcs are the 2 best things that he has ever written, IMO, though in both cases whoever was responsible for working on each respective anime may just deserve as much credit as Togashi himself.

On another note, though, I decided to retry a few episodes of the Greed Island OVAs of HXH, and man they are a huge drop in quality. Its expected when the director for the TV anime and the first OVA didn't return to direct anything past that, and it can be seen that the people involved with making the GI OVAs really didn't care about the source material all that much. I mean, I'll admit that the GI arc itself wasn't all that enthralling, but it was at least fairly entertaining in the anime, whereas I have to admit looking back on it that its rather boring in the anime, at least from the first few episodes that I have re-watched from it. I also find its music to be rather inferior and the animation looks "shinier" on the outside but its like any other generic anime with all of its stiff and lifeless movements, which is a shame after coming straight out of the fluidly animated TV series as well as the first OVA.

As for the other parts of the HXH anime, I feel that there were some truly great scenes and moments. I was particularly impressed with how the scene involving Pakunoda's death was handled. As one of the villains, the anime played her out to try and make the viewers sympathize with her a bit more. I really must say that the scene in which she willingly sacrifices her life to reveal to the rest of her members the remaining information that she has about Kurapika was dealt with extremely well in the anime and I'd easily put it on par with some of my favorite YYH moments. Even Desensitized can't deny that for all the faults that HXH may have, Togashi still clearly knows how to create some truly gray lines between heroes and villains. Hell, I'd argue that Togashi may in fact be better at writing the characters of villains than he is at writing for any of the good guys.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Foggle on March 03, 2011, 12:29:43 AM
Do you know if they're going to continue with the HxH anime once Togashi publishes enough new manga chapters?
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 03, 2011, 12:43:48 AM
Its possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath seeing as how Togashi is too damn lazy to even finish the current arc that HXH has been on....for nearly a fucking decade....(granted that, most of that decade was spent in hiatus-time, but that only makes the matter even more inexcusable).

To be honest, though, the best HXH material has already been animated. The Chimera arc in the manga can be really weird and bizarre, and while it still contains some solid writing, Togashi pissed me off with going a bit overboard....such as killing off 2 really important characters without a second thought or any remorse and also getting Gon's right arm chopped off....I wonder if the guy is expressing some internal issues in his manga....

At any rate, I'd say that the HXH TV series and the first OVA by themselves make a satisfying, if somewhat unfulfilled story in themselves. To be honest, HXH has its fair amount of childish shonen elements, so I'm not sure if it would really be your thing, but it is a really enjoyable series for those who enjoy a shonen story that uses shonen tropes in the right ways and can be fairly imaginative in its own right (granted that it also does deserve some criticism for abiding a bit too much by some of the more idiotic "shonen" logic, but this mostly only applies to the earlier segments of the story than the later ones).

If you ever want to check out the best Togashi material at any point in time, though, I'd highly recommend the Chapter Black arc of YYH in the English dub (you don't need to have seen much of the previous material from the series to follow it, as long as you just know who the main characters are), and the York Shin City arc of HXH (though admittedly that would require having seen the series from the start).

The first 4 episodes of Level E are also worth checking out, and make for some good comedy that contrasts the more popular "loud-mouth" style comedy where the writers have the mentality that just making characters yell a lot alone makes something funny (Level E has that too, but it mixes in some pretty clever subtle humor to balance things out). Everything after that can be a bit too bizarre, so I don't know if I'd openly recommend it, but episodes 5-7 make for a fun but silly RPG parody.

Anyways, those are my personal recommendations, just for any future reference for anyone who's interested.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Foggle on March 03, 2011, 08:59:44 AM
I've seen the Chapter Black arc of YYH dubbed, granted that was about a decade ago (or whenever it was that it first aired on Toonami) and I remember almost nothing about it. I'll watch the entire series again sometime, for sure...

I have the first 5 episodes of Level E queued up, so I'm not sure why I haven't watched them yet. :zonk: You know I love bizarre, though. ;)
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 03, 2011, 12:31:26 PM
Well, the reason that I recommended the Chapter Black arc alone is because it can be seen individually for the most part, and its only 25 episodes which is basically the cut-off length of most anime series that I figure you'd be willing to watch. Plus, I didn't figure that you'd want to go through a long tournament arc even if it is done extremely well (as in, I typically hate shonen tournament arcs, but YYH's Dark Tournament mixes in some brilliant story and character elements to actually make the experience seem really fresh and entertaining), since I know stuff like that are among the things that you don't like about shonen (and understandably so).

As for Level E....well, I mean bizarre more in the sense that the series literally changes genre and characters after every mini-arc (its composed entirely of mini-arcs that are only related through one certain character, who could best be described as the king of all trolls....you'll see what I mean by episode 3 of the series). The first 3 episodes involve a boy meets alien type story, but then the next episode is a very serious sci-fi noir type story, and then the next 3 episodes after that are a wacky power rangers parody. When looked at individually, each arc is quite well in the respective genres that they fit in, but when looked at as a whole, the series has about as much coherency as the Excel Saga anime. ;)

That said, I think it works since its really short (only 16 chapters in the manga, and the anime is supposed to end with episode 12). I like the humor, though, because it actually has some pretty clever subtle touches to it, which is rare among anime comedies, especially these days (though Togashi wrote the manga for this well over a decade ago, so the way its style of humor clashes with that of modern anime is all the more apparent now).
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on March 03, 2011, 06:05:36 PM
You should watch Chapter Black.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 30, 2011, 10:01:23 PM
So, yeah, the guy's temporarily getting off of his lazy ass again to continue a story arc that has been going on for 10 years, with most of that time spent on hiatus....

I give it about 10 chapters before he gets lazy again....

But, anyways, here's my personal suggestions for Togashi to save this series before it turns to shit:

1. Finish the Chimera arc as soon as possible. Its gone on for WAY too long. At this point I don't even give a shit if this arc gets a shitty ending as I no longer care about the villains anymore. Just keep the good guys interesting and further develop them with future arcs (which are hopefully much shorter than this one).

2. Bring Leorio and Kurapika back! Or, at the very least bring Leorio back. Togashi, I don't care what random plot-points you have to throw in to get them back into the story, but get them back in. Taking them out for so long is the equivalent of removing 2 of the main 4 characters of YYH half way into the series and then never bringing them back. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? They are such interesting characters, with Leorio being the most likeable character in the entire series (IMO), and Kurapika having had the most interesting character arc. Seriously, even just bringing Leorio back would go a long way in contributing to this series's enjoyment factor. The characters are best when they work as a group. So far to be honest the only character that has been holding the story together for me is Killua, and Togashi even hinted earlier on in the Chimera arc that he would be leaving Gon after this arc as well, and without any interesting characters around him, Gon himself become a boring piece of walking cardboard. So yes, this story can only benefit from the return of the other 2 of the main 4 characters in this series.

3. Make a villain that's interesting and complex and all that good stuff WITHOUT making them fucking immortal. Seriously, there are villains who are highly dangerous and have to be kept threatening to keep the story tense, but Meruem is fucking ridiculous with how overpowered he is. Even Netero couldn't beat him. In order to keep things tense, you must also leave a small sliver of hope that the good guys can actually conceivably survive against the villain if he were to take them seriously. Togashi, remember how you wrote for Minoru Sensui? He admitted that he was weaker than Yusuke, and the other 6 psychics barely had any physical prowess at all beyond their unique abilities, yet Minoru controlled them with sly and deceitful manipulation, and together they all kept the heroes at bay through wits rather than relying on Brute force. It make for a very interesting situation that still felt tense as the heroes were short on time and had to come up with a plan of action to take the villains down. In HXH, their plan of action horribly backfires on them despite great planning only because no amount of planning matters: The villains are fucking unbeatable, and even in cases in which the heroes, through brilliant strategy, are on the verge of taking one down, some shit luck has to happen to them and it forces them to give in and allow the villains to trounce all over them. Togashi, this is a SHOUNEN series. Do you really want to depress your readers? Especially when at least half of them are probably young kids?

**Sigh**

Despite all that I've said, HXH is far from shit, believe it or not, but its fallen a great deal in quality from its glory days. I know that Togashi can write better, but right now his story is a mess due to poor planning and really half-assed characterization as of late, which is quite sad since this guy was able to write my favorite shounen story and characters ever, and right now he refuses to use his talent to his fullest and come up with something of equal or even greater quality. This is the only time that I will say this, so read it carefully:

Togashi: TAKE POINTERS FROM ODA! Yeah, I think Togashi is overall a better write than Oda when he's serious, but I really admire Oda's dedication and attention to details with his story and characters. If Togashi were as dedicated, he'd easily be the best shounen mangaka of all-time in my book.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 01, 2011, 12:21:25 AM
I really hope after HXH he just goes to a monthly magazine or something. It's far less work for him and he can take it at his own pace and won't have as much reason to get bored doing it.

Agreed on the villains. I've said it before, my main issue with the villains is that it always feels like for every boost the main characters get, the enemies still seem like they're light years away. They tend to have unique skills as it is, why do they need to be so absurdly powerful? It gets frustrating to read when it feels like the main characters are always so frail despite the fact that at this point they logically shouldn't be.

Also, agreed on Leorio. He's so far behind everyone else for seemingly no real reason other than Togashi figured he should be.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 10, 2011, 10:14:51 PM
So I'm re-reading the manga of HXH, and I'm up to York Shin.

Jesus, does this get violent as hell. Like, almost to seinen/FOTNS levels of violence. You never see violence of this level in Shonen anymore. On the other hand, this is almost the complete opposite style of fights from YYH. While those relied on fighting smart with what skills you had, these fights rely on fighting around skills your opponent has.

Fighting aside, the whole auction thing is pretty interesting, but something of this speed would never be allowed in a current shonen magazine. It's simply too in depth on world lore and not enough "WHY AREN'T THEY FIGHTING" for general audiences. But it's clever.

Unfortunately, once we get to Greed Island, that's as far as I ever got both manga and anime wise. Though it will be nice to see the end of it. But that was the arc that really had me shaking my head at how ridiculously underpowered the main characters are most of the time. Normally it wouldn't bother me, but Togashi puts such emphasis on strategy, that the gap just seems way too ridiculous at times.

However, everything up to this point has been pretty good. But man does the Mafia suck.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 10, 2011, 10:41:50 PM
Yeah, I think that the only reason that Togashi got away with his excessive level of violence is because he had a much simpler art-style, so it wasn't super-detailed gore and still had an element of cartoony-ness to it. But I have to admit that I'm actually really glad that the anime toned it down to more acceptable levels.

And yeah, Togashi gets really in depth with the mafia lore that it would probably go straight over the heads of most young readers, but really that's what I love so much about this arc. He really fleshes out the criminal underground really well in this series, especially with the York Shin City arc.

Greed Island is basically just a training arc. At its best its average training-fare, and while its not horrible it just feels kind of ridiculous in some ways. I kind of disagree that this is where the overpowered villains issue starts, though. Its presented in the form of a game so it has the heroes doing things in that style and using tons of strategy to win different cards to add to their collection. Also, being that its a training arc it makes sense that the main enemies are stronger than them. I don't want to spoil anything, but since this arc isn't that great anyways it shouldn't be giving away too much to say that the main villains themselves are not that overpowered at all. Its revealed that they actually rely on tricks a bit too much and when they are exposed they aren't as intimidating as they seem.

The Chimera arc is where shit gets overly ridiculous with the villains. Wait until you see Meruem. It'll make you want to pull your hair out at just how futile ANYTHING that ANYONE does against that guy is all but hopeless. He's so overpowered that even Hunters far stronger than Gon and Killua can barely even wound him let alone actually kill him. It especially pisses me off when one particular character sacrifices his own life and comes close....But then Meruem pulls a Cell like thing from DBZ and regenerates from the little of him that is left. It really ticked me off at Togashi.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 10, 2011, 10:51:32 PM
Well, I'm partly relieved and horrified. Not sure which I'm more.

I can only imagine how annoying the Chimera arc must be considering he has yet to actually finish it. I wish he would have at least finished it before going on such a long break. I think when I get to the end, I'll just watch the anime again for comparison purposes.

Fanboy idiocy ahead: Hiei Vs. Hisoka

Fuck. yes.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 10, 2011, 11:13:07 PM
I actually think that the anime is for the most part superior to the manga very much in the vein of YYH, up until the end of the York Shin City arc, which was what Furahara directed. After that, though, we get GI and its actually worse in the anime than it is in the manga. I miss the fluid style of animation from Furahara's episodes and I also just feel that no effort was put into fleshing out the story at all of the GI arc with those OVAs. That's what happens when you hand Togashi's work over to people who don't really give a shit about adapting it (though to be fair it was a relatively weak arc to begin with, but at least it still felt like it had some effort put into it in the manga).
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 07:16:02 AM
So a few chapters into the Chimera Ant arc and he's not only casually killed off several characters from the early part of the manga, and basically referred to a "guard" level character above two of the strongest characters in this manga. On top of it, there's even more pointless slaughter and most of the enemy characters are so boringly generic that I'm not even intrigued to see where this goes.

I'm sorry to say that I'm not really that impressed, EK. It's pretty much everything I didn't like about earlier arcs rolled into this one.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 09:00:34 AM
Reading further on and I'm kind of conflicted. It's definitely better than the mass murdering spree that was going on before, but by the same token... Why is Meruem more or less Cell? He looks a lot like Pokkuro (Jesus, did he really deserve that kind of death?) but is clearly based on Cell.

Needless to say, I actually liked that some of the Chimera actually had development beyond killing machines that kill because why not. Some of the new human characters are pretty cool, too... But I have a bit of an issue getting attached to anyone in this manga since they seem to die pointlessly and all the time.

I don't know why Togashi feels the need to to do this so often, it's like any villainous character that is introduced needs to kill 100 innocent people (or minor characters, same difference) for no reason to be considered a threat to the heroes. I've been paying attention and he literally does this with every villain he introduces in this manga. Why? I have no idea. But it's getting old. Meruem going out of his way to slaughter a child and eat her brain was lame and actually had me rolling my eyes.

I don't remember Sensui having to commit fucking genocide to be considered a threatening villain. Heck, part of the appeal of the Toguro Bros. was that they could do that, but didn't because they were more calculated. What happened to villains like that?


*Side note, I'm reading this because of insomnia and the fact that I had some weird kind of panic attack thing the previous night and I'm a bit paranoid at what will happen if I try to sleep again. It's a testament to Togashi's skills that I'm still reading this despite my issues.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 10:12:05 AM
Having the Genei Ryodan fight (relatively) bottom tier enemies that anyone else could defeat feels like a cop out considering the strength of other Ants in this arc. This also feels like filler since it's basically just a chance for the lesser known members to use their powers. Also, why is Killua's younger sibling so much stronger than he is? That just seems downright silly since he didn't even know what Nen was at the start of the story.

If Hisoka doesn't show up in this arc, I'm going to be pretty disappointed at the missed opportunity for a fight with him that might last more than 15 seconds.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 10:51:59 AM
Gon and Killua are pretty well developed in this arc. I still don't like the villains, as they seem really one dimensional, but at least Gon and Killua are actually shining pretty well here.

That said, if Togashi kills Knuckle or Morel off, then fuck him.  ;)
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 01:26:30 PM
Wow, Meruem showing signs of weakness was a bit unexpected if only because of the way he did it. Not in the casual "everything I've done has been a lie!" way, but in the "maybe it isn't all as simple as I thought it was?" kind of way. That he remembered even killing a child despite his character proves that even on a subconscious level he already knew something was off with what he was doing.

His subordinates are still really lame characters, though.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 02:27:43 PM
Holy shit, 270 is really the first hiatus?!? He wasted like 7 chapters just getting them in to the building and he cuts it off there?!?

Cold blooded, Togashi.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 02:53:49 PM
Holy shit, Gon got awesome. I like the subtle character change in this arc where it seems like Gon is becoming more like Killua and Killua is becoming more like Gon.

But I seriously don't think this arc needs to be so long.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 03:22:15 PM
Hiatus #2 is right at the climax of the best fight of this whole arc so far and only after ten chapters.

GEEZ.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 03:59:16 PM
Before I forget; best moment in the entire arc so far and not really all that spoiler-iffic:

(http://i24.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/277/hunter-x-hunter-328072.jpg)

I swear to God, Knuckle better not get shit on or nerfed by Togashi after this arc ends.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 04:42:40 PM
Third hiatus at 290.

:-\
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 21, 2011, 05:34:50 PM
Quote from: Desensitized on July 21, 2011, 07:16:02 AM
So a few chapters into the Chimera Ant arc and he's not only casually killed off several characters from the early part of the manga, and basically referred to a "guard" level character above two of the strongest characters in this manga. On top of it, there's even more pointless slaughter and most of the enemy characters are so boringly generic that I'm not even intrigued to see where this goes.

I'm sorry to say that I'm not really that impressed, EK. It's pretty much everything I didn't like about earlier arcs rolled into this one.

The arc starts out pretty slow and boring, picks up around the middle, and then plumets down in quality again right about after Togashi's 2nd big hiatus.

If you read any of my thoughts on the Chimera arc then you wouldn't need to explain to me about the mass mudering thing since I myself have already complained about that to no end on other forums. Its just Togashi making for a cheap ploy to make things seem dire and grand in scale by killing off a bunch of minor or no-name characters. There is some great character development in this arc for both Gon and Killua, and there are some fun and interesting new characters introduced in this arc like Knuckle who I swear is HXH's version of Kuwabara (except he's actually treated with way more respect as a character).

On the downside, the arc is really only good for 30-40 chapters before it goes seriously downhill again, You'll see what I mean after about chapter 260-270....yeah, this shit goes on for over 100 chapters, and its STILL not finished yet.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 21, 2011, 05:51:02 PM
Oh, heh....I didn't even notice all of your other posts.....I sure feel silly. :>

Anyways, Knuckle is by far my favorite new character of this arc. He has all of the awesome elements of Kuwabara mixed in with some more emotional character traits that really makes him feel like a really fleshed out character. He's also easily one of the most likable characters in this entire series.

I pretty much agree that most of the villains are one-note and pretty lame, but I do at least like how the main Chimera Ants get some pretty decent character development. Werefin and the others start getting memories of their lives as humans and start showing signs of changing and having more well-developed thoughts. Nef and the Meruem's 2 other loyal servants show a lot of blind devotion for him, but I find it to be an interesting twist that in this case they aren't the ones who start changing their attitude towards his actions or questioning him, but that Meruem himself is the one questioning himself. He doesn't know why but he won't allow the only human who could ever beat him at anything (the blind girl) to be killed, and has obviously developed some sort of feelings about her that he can't explain. His servants are aware of that and while Nef tries to keep her alive trying to be as loyal to Meruem as possible, the other 2 want her dead because they feel that she is poisoning Meruem's mind. That's some REALLY interesting chemisty between the main villains.

Where the arc falls apart is with just about everything else. Togashi tries to cram way too much shit into the arc at once, making it drag out far longer than it should have. For someone as experienced as him I wouldn't have expected him to fall into this trap and continue going down this route. He should take cues from his earlier manga, Yu Yu Hakusho, to remember how to properly pace a story without having a single arc overstay its welcome for WAY too long.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 06:26:30 PM
The thing is... There is absolutely no reason why this arc needed to be so damn long. The Ryodan part adds really nothing to the overall story, the humanization of the Chimera starting with Colt and his small pack of allies isn't explored again for a ridiculously giant amount of time. While some fights were interesting, they were really scattershot all over the place with the best ones being all of Knuckle, Killua, and Morau (or Morel, however they want to translate it) having the best fights by far. While I still miss Kurapika and Leorio, those guys were by far the best part of the arc. Welfin really grew on me once he started spilling his past,

Killua's family is totally wasted again, the old man jobs pretty hard, and... other than the Youpi Vs Knuckle/Shoot/Morau/Meleoron fight these "final fights" (Dear God, this must be near the end, right?) are pretty badly paced with too much happening and outside pacing interfering. It would have been nice if that fight ended with their strategy succeeding, but I don't actually hate what transpired at the end of it since every part of the fight was actually really interesting, nail biting, and satisfying. Ikalgo and Welfin's skirmish was entertaining, however. But still, watching Gon sit angrily is getting old.

I still think Hisoka would have fit a lot better in this arc than he did in Greed Island, but considering how pointlessly the other Ryodan (well, yeah he's ex, but you know what I mean) were shoved in for filler it's probably good that he didn't.

I really hope he finishes it when he comes back. Every single hiatus in this arc is placed in the worst possible parts of the story.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 21, 2011, 07:01:41 PM
If news of the new anime turns out to be true, then Togashi will probably be forced to at the very least finish up this arc.

Also, as far as Knuckle vs. Yupi goes, I LOVED that fight....up until the end where Yupi held Morel hostage. It just pissed me off to no end that a fight that one of the good guys finally fairly had won through good strategy and endurance still got shoved in their face when some other unofortunate incident caused them to be set back. There's such a thing as going too overboard with making the situation way too hopeless for the good guys, and Togashi crosses that line. Its not even as entertaining or tense as much as it is downright depressing (and in a bad way).

The fight between Netero and Meruem also pissed me off to no end. I mean, REALLY TOGASHI? REALLY!?! He had it clearly won when he sacrificed his own life and you still come up with a bull-shit reason to allow Meruem to live. That just pisses me off.

I love Togashi's work on YYH, Level E, and previous arcs of HXH, but right now he's pretty much almost as bad as Kubo with how he needlessly drags out his own story and makes it a total cluster-fuck by cramming in way too many ideas and losing the coherency of the story. There are some strong points to this arc, especially on the side of character development, but the plot just turns to crap by the final third (of what's CURRENTLY out of the arc, anyways, since its STILL not finished). Really, Togashi needs to end this arc and save the series while there's still time by starting a new arc that does what he should have done A LONG-ASS TIME AGO, he should reintroduce Kurapika and Leorio back into the story and start up a stand-alone story arc from scratch with interesting villains and a well-constructed plot. Either that, or continue the plot with the Ryodan as they are the only genuinely interesting villains in this series aside from Hisoka, IMO.

Either that, or Togashi can go for the traditional shonen time-skip (though do it in his own way), and start up a sequel series from scratch. That'd be pretty practical in this sort of situation (especially since he wrote himself into a corner in that he needs an excuse for the characters to get exponentially more powerful in order to even mean anything in this series anymore).
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 07:19:18 PM
Yeah, I'm right by the end now and that sacrifice was freaking annoying. I'm not anticipating where this is going because the good guys literally have NO ONE who comes close to any of those Chimera any more short of a random cameo.

I can't see this arc ending in anything but a cop out, and that's really annoying.

Unless of course he really DID write himself into a corner with this arc and can't think of any way to finish it off to a point where it works logically. If that's the case, then for what reason did he make them so powerful in the first place? Who did he think was actually going to beat them?
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 21, 2011, 08:04:48 PM
That's it?!? What the heck did he end it there for?!?

All the good guys who can fight are down, only two bad guys left (who are probably about to fight), a main character left in a totally ridiculous situation, and yet he just stops???

Why?




Uuuuggghhh, Togashi.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 21, 2011, 10:55:11 PM
I have long since-suspected that Togashi secretly hates his own fan-base....:thinkin:
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on July 22, 2011, 07:32:36 PM
Other than Meruem (pre-macguffin) and Youpi (but ONLY during the battle royale before he became a retard), he hasn't written a good pure bad guy since York Shin.

Pitou, for instance, is probably the worst villain Togashi has ever written. And for some reason is more powerful than everyone else in this manga.

While we got some really good characters eventually (Hell, Werefin killed Youpi which probably means Pouf is now useless) out of the enemies, most were pretty one dimensional and starting out the arc by making them seem stronger than people like Hisoka or Kuroro is fucking insulting.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 22, 2011, 09:29:03 PM
Pitou isn't the worst villain. He/she (yeah, the various manga translators are never clear on Pitou's gender) is just Meruem's loyal servant. There's nothing downright stand-out or terrible about that villain. Its all those needless, minor, 1-dimensional Chimera Ants that are Togashi's worst written villains. Instead of having a bunch of shallow minor villains that serve as useless fodder, Togashi should focus on just a few of them that are actually interesting. To be fair in the latest parts of the arc it really has just been focused on the main villains, but its too little too late. By now the damage of how much Togashi has messed up this arc has already been done, and now it just needs to come to an end as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on August 03, 2011, 08:34:27 PM
It's back!

And it looks like it won't be long before the end since the king doesn't have much longer to live according to Palm. I'm guessing the possibility is that the life restoration they gave the king is only temporary, since it isn't like there is anyone who could kill him right now. That's pretty much all I got. The rest of the chapter just seemed weird.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 03, 2011, 08:45:09 PM
It didn't seem weird to me at all.

Really brilliant chapter, in fact. It felt like pure Togashi. I loved how Ikalgo pointed out that they are just as cruel as the Chimera Ants in the methods that they have to resort to in order to outwit them. There was no generic action in this chapter, but instead interesting dialogue and a Chapter Black-esque feeling of how humans are just as shitty as any of the monsters in this series.

I really liked this chapter. I sincerely hope that Togashi maintains this sort of quality from now on, and also wraps up this arc as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on August 03, 2011, 08:52:30 PM
I think it is going to end soon. The chapter seemed to go out of its way to make the point that there's only a few "hours" left, so as long as he doesn't dawdle like he did when they stormed the palace, there probably won't be much left.

As long as he doesn't go on another break in 10 chapters, anyway.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on August 18, 2011, 04:13:30 PM
It's not looking good for Werefin.  :'(

It also looks like Pouf isn't much longer for this world judging from what happened to Youpi, really leaving me to wonder what Togashi is planning to do to finish this off.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 18, 2011, 04:25:56 PM
The ending of the chapter was kind of weird, or rather the last image was kind of weird. I can't tell if it meant that Werefin's fate is already sealed (in that he's going to be a dead duck....errrr....wolf right at the start of the next chapter), or if he's in "deep-shit" zone right now with a slimmer of a chance to talk his way out of it. By the looks of it he can no longer talk his way out of his situation, and Meruem can already tell that he has turned traitor, and knowing Togashi's writing style he will mercilessly kill off characters like that, so I'm pretty sure that Werefin is already as good as dead. Still, I'm really anticipating the next chapter to see if that's really how things turn out, since this series is full of unpredictable twists and deviations from expected norms and conventions for this type of story-line. Its a true testament to Togashi's skill as a mangaka, even if his quality is very inconsistent these days.

If I have one complaint about this chapter, its that it spent too long going back into Poufu's psyche and thought process. Togashi has already done that extensively enough before, and it was interesting the first time he did it, but at this point it just feels a bit redundant. I did still like this chapter for going deeper into analyzing what Werefin was thinking in his current life-or-death situation, though. I'd really like to get back to Gon and Killua as soon as possible, though. I mean, seriously, Gon is pretty fucked up right now, both emotionally and physically (he just lost his fucking right arm and can't even use Nen now), and Killua isn't going to be enough to protect him, so I wonder how they'll deal with their current situation.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on August 18, 2011, 04:44:18 PM
I don't like when he goes into the certain Ants' psyche, because I don't find Meruem's underlings very interesting characters, but I suppose it's necessary at this point because Pouf won't be around much longer.

But yeah, it would be nice to see what the hell is going on with Gon and Killua since they're pretty much the only good guys left who can do anything.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 18, 2011, 06:07:12 PM
Quote from: Desensitized on August 18, 2011, 04:44:18 PM
I don't like when he goes into the certain Ants' psyche, because I don't find Meruem's underlings very interesting characters, but I suppose it's necessary at this point because Pouf won't be around much longer.

Eh, I disagree with you there. The Ants are very interesting, IMO (the main ones who get development, that is). Its also really nice to see him go into the pscyhe of the villains rather than just the good guys (another great way of deviating from shonen norms). So, yeah, I personally love that aspect of this arc, which for me is among its only few major redeeming qualities.

That said I just feel that its really just repetitive to delve into Poufu's psyche again since we learn nothing new about him or anything else from it.

QuoteBut yeah, it would be nice to see what the hell is going on with Gon and Killua since they're pretty much the only good guys left who can do anything.

Well, among them Killua is the only one who can do anything, since Gon is pretty fucked up right now. He's not even in any shape to walk straight let alone get into an actual fight.

Also don't forget about Palm and Ikalgo. If we've learned anything from HXH at this point (even if this arc kind of goes against it most of the time), just being powerful doesn't mean everything. Both of those characters are still physically fine and can at least try and do something strategy-wise to delay Meruem from capturing anyone else until he dies from the toxin.

Really I think these chapters are surprisingly more interesting than I expected them to be. I expected a lackluster ending to a mixed bag of an overly-long arc, but overall I'm pretty happey with the recent 2 chapters that we got. They are nowhere close to being as great as the series is during its high points, but they are easily good enough to be high points of interesting writing in this particular arc, which may not be saying much but at the very least its keeping me interested in reading the manga.

I just hope that after this arc is over Togasih can return to proper form and get this series back on track. The first thing he better do in the next arc is to bring Leorio and Kurapika back. I don't care how he has to do it, but he better find a way to write them back into the story.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on August 18, 2011, 06:48:14 PM
I do like most of the Ants as characters, but not the "strong" ones like Pouf. I'd rather see more of Werefin or Ikalgo than him or his cronies, they're way more interesting as characters, IMO.

Nonetheless, it doesn't look like there's much left of this arc, which is a great thing.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 26, 2011, 12:10:54 PM
So, Werefin actually managed to live, but WTF was up with that first page with his head getting bitten off? I suppose that was all supposed to be in his head, of what he thought would happen to him in the next instant.

Anyways, kind of a slow chapter but it was still interesting to see the King's reaction to having his memories of Komugi come back. I can honestly say that I can't really predict what he's going to do next, now; or rather, I do know that he's going to be looking for Komugi wherever they hid her, but I'm not sure what he plans to do after he finds her. That itself has me a bit interested, but I still hope that this arc is over really soon since it just feels like its been going on for way too long.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on August 30, 2011, 01:07:02 PM
It looks like the king has awakened to his humanity. I'm wondering how exactly this is going to end but I'm not seeing how it's going to go down. Pouf is obviously going to die soon judging from Youpi and that Pitou is already dead, so... are there really any bad guys left at this point?
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 07, 2011, 07:47:00 PM
So I think that's the arc... Like, seriously.

Obviously, we still need to see Gon and Killua and their group, but I feel pretty safe in knowing that the Chimera Ant arc has finally met its end.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 07, 2011, 08:55:10 PM
Yeah, its pretty much over. It may be an anti-climactic ending but it kind of needed to be since Togashi had been making this arc go on for way too long. I actually feel that he made the right decision in ending it as quickly as possible (even if he had to resort to his bad habits of rushing things towards the end), since this arc would have totally gone to shit for good if he kept it alive any longer. I think now he has complete freedom to bring the series to a fresh new start with a brand new arc. I'm actually really excited to see what he comes up with, now that he has a much more clear palette to work from.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 13, 2011, 11:27:27 PM
This chapter was mostly a good epilogue chapter but the ending kind of confused me.

Also, I'm wondering how exactly Killua plans to save Gon. Part of me is hoping (even though I know that its unlikely), that he would get Leorio (maybe if only because he's training to be a doctor) to come to his side, but that wouldn't really make sense since he's not a top of the line doctor or anything. I guess I'm just really desperate for any excuse to see Leorio re-introduced into the story at this point in time.

At any rate, I wonder what will happen for Gon after he recovers. He lost an arm so I'm wondering if he'll get some sort of mechanical replacement or stay with just 1 arm for the rest of his life (I hope that Togashi doesn't cop out, though, and have his totally recover from being dismembered since it would be a great change of pace to have a shonen hero with permanent damage done to his body like that). I also wonder how he's going to be able to use Nen now that he supposedly can't use it again (though, in this regard Togashi's kind of going to have to find a way to give him that ability back if the wants to continue the story in the long-run).

At any rate, as usual Killua is the most interesting character in this series for me. Its really interesting to see what he's going through with his best friend nearing a state of death, and to see someone as cool-headed as him look so helpless really does make me feel for him a bit, especially since he was established to be so empty and devoid of expressing many emotions before meeting Gon (which basically changed and developed his character A LOT since they've become friends).

Overall, I'm liking the post-arc stuff. Its not super-exciting material or anything like that (its an epilogue, after all), but its basically as interesting as you can make post-arc chapters. I basically like to see what the characters are going through and how the story is generally setting things up for future events to come in the world of HXH.

One thing I'm interested in learning more about is Jairo. Togashi specifically took the time to explain this villain in the middle of the Chimera arc for almost no apparent reason except to note that he will eventually be important to the story and that its also signficant for some reason whether he meets Gon or not, and and even stresses the importance of the time that they meet. Obviously he's had something planned up for years, especially since he fucking wrote those parts of the Chimera arc around the time Jairo was introduced years ago before going on hiatus a million fucking times, so I can't wait to see how that part of the story develops later on as things take their course throughout the rest of this series.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 14, 2011, 02:14:38 PM
I think Gon has been written out of the story for now. I don't see him coming back for a long, long time... but he'll probably be back to normal when he does. Togashi is still writing shonen, after all.

As for Killua, I do agree with you. He's changed a lot since the emotionless killer he was at the start of the story, going so far as to even spare Ikalgo when he would have killed him without question in the early arcs. I'm not sure what he meant by him "saving" Gon when he also mentioned that doctors were important in saving him, too... But, maybe he meant he's going to find Jin for him? I'm not sure.

Either way, this is an easy excuse to get Leorio back into the story, so if he doesn't return, I'll be annoyed.  :bleh:

Oh yeah, and Knuckle lived. Which is sweet.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 14, 2011, 02:41:33 PM
Considering that Gon is this story's main character, I can't see him being gone from the story for too long, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get an entire new arc centered around Killua as the main character for it (much like how Kurapika became the main character for the York Shin City arc), or even another character entirely. I myself would have no qualms with getting an arc that features either Leorio or Knuckle as the main character (or even both, which would be exponentially more awesome).
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 20, 2011, 09:16:29 PM
I've been re-reading the Chimera arc from the beginning to refresh my memory of the entire arc. I have to say that while I knew that Togashi generally got away with a lot, for some reason I'm still shocked as to just how much Shonen Jump let him get away with in this manga. There is actually a scene in which Meruem slaughters the corrupt ruler of East Goruto, and then discovers a whole gathering of nude women who you could only assume served as the guy's personal sexual entertainment of sorts, huddled in fear of Meruem and begging for their lives before he brings up how humans are no different in how they slaughter pigs and cows and other animals without giving a crap about them squealing for their lives (being that Meruem himself initially sees humans as nothing more than a rich source of meat for himself).

I'm not even saying that its really a good thing, since there are a lot of points where I just feel that Togashi just goes too far with some things. I mean, even if he was allowed to get away with some stuff, I don't really think he should have had to constantly go that far with some themes that he was trying to portray. I mean the scene in which Meruem kills 2 innocent farmers and then their daughter cries at the site of their mutilated bodies before Meruem mercilessly kills her as well was more disturbing than anything else, IMO. I get that Togashi wanted to show how cruel he was, with the whole idea being that he was born with the firm understanding that he was superior to all and how he could not initially even begin to comprehend the thoughts and feelings of other living beings. Also, to be fair it does make for some interesting development on his part as he slowly becomes a more 3-dimensional character and consequently less of a villain and more of a tragic figure doomed to live a despised existence. However, I don't think that Togashi had to go nearly as far as he did with Meruem's initial brutality to demonstrate that point.

I mean, OK, I get it: initially he has absolutely no feelings so he would do things that the readers would consider shocking just to show how he does such actions without any remorse, but IMO if Togashi just implied some of the merciless things he did, or showed maybe one disturbing scene to demonstrate the point rather than going all out, then it would have been a more effective form of story-telling. I personally just feel that Togashi going too far to physically demonstrate this point made the initial parts involving Meruem harder to read than it should have been, and not for the right reasons.

I would like to stress that I point this out because I do find the core concept of this arc and behind Meruem's existence (as well as the rest of the Chimera Ants in general) to be great and highly intriguing. I just feel that Togashi would have done better off to handle the subject matter in a more subtle manner than he did. As it stands, I'm surprised that HXH didn't cause any sort of controversy among parents in Japan at what Togashi was able to get away with before. To be fair, I do think that later on he at least learned from his mistake and greatly toned down the violence and shock value of the beginning portions of the arc. That isn't to say that HXH isn't still violent after that point, but rather that it no longer felt violent just for the sake of being violent.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 20, 2011, 10:07:48 PM
Yeah, my main problem was how seinen and gory the beginning of the arc was. I mean, the manga has been brutal before, but never this over the top and brainless about it. It only starts to get bearable once Meruem takes the capital and from there it's pretty good.

But that first part of that arc? Jesus, not only is it a blood bath, but it's far too over the top, and not even in a good way. Meruem eating that kid's brains was where I almost gave up, but thankfully it improves a lot after that moment. But all that pointless death of established characters (I wouldn't have minded Kaito dying, but as I said it was not executed well as I still don't find Meruem's lackeys good characters at all) to add shock value, and even making the entire previous arc totally meaningless... Yeah, the arc did not start off well at all.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 20, 2011, 10:16:30 PM
Well, I disagree with you about the Royal Guards. They served their purpose just fine as characters. They weren't supposed to be likeable, so if you hated them then that's the point: in that Togashi "intended" for you and everyone else to hate them. The whole purpose of their being was to demonstrate the negative effects of unhealthy devotion to a leader or higher power. And even then they could have been kept completely 1-dimensional characters and it would have been understandable, but Togashi still fleshed them out by having them develop their own personalities and a sense of individuality over time, to the point where they stopped blindly following everything the King said in terms of doing what "they" felt was best for the King (this was especially a strong case with Pufu). In this regard, I think they were very interesting characters to analyze throughout the arc. Yeah, I hated all of them, but that was kind of the whole point. Lackeys who screw over other people for the benefit of someone who they falsely think of as a god are never likeable, but they can make interesting characters if you delve into their psyche and I personally felt that Togashi did a good job of that.

I think we can both at least agree, though, that the lesser soldier ants that had more personality and much less loyalty to Meruem (with many of them eventually resolving to betray him and instead pursue their own goals) were certainly much more interesting characters than the main villains of this arc. That much is certain, and to be honest I feel that they also highly contributed to making this an enjoyable arc. I think that the high point of this arc for me was the development of Gon and Killua, and also the inclusion of new characters such as Knuckle and Marou (I can never get the spelling on his name down since so many translators spell it differently).
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 20, 2011, 10:27:29 PM
No, I didn't like them because I don't like characters that appear out of nowhere and are more powerful than established villains and heroes without a good explanation. I mean, even low level grunts were more powerful than most Nen users, and that just rubbed me wrong. It would have helped had they had actual personality, but they were totally boring. Youpi was fun to hate at times (but he didn't really do a whole lot outside of that awesome fight), Pouf's scheming was fun (but he needed something else to me)... And you already know I dislike Pitou totally for being irritating on top of having no personality.

But I do agree that the other Chimera Ants were good characters. Werefin, Ikalgo, and the rest were all likable both as bad guys and as good guys. Cheetu was a good brainless meathead (or speedhead?), and Leo was a good love to hate character, that actually had a fitting end to his schemes.

But the start of the arc did kill a lot for me looking back. I couldn't get into Knuckle's introduction because of the overwhelming sense of death up to that point, even though the character is awesome.

That said, as a whole I did enjoy the arc. It had a lot of great ideas, went on far too long, and had a lot of great moments. But somehow I doubt Togashi will ever do an arc like this again (for better or worse) so at the very least we can savor how unique it was.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 20, 2011, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Desensitized on September 20, 2011, 10:27:29 PM
No, I didn't like them because I don't like characters that appear out of nowhere and are more powerful than established villains and heroes without a good explanation.

The Chimera ants are hybrids of different creatures, and naturally acquire all of their strengths. The Chimera that were born from the queen having consumed nen users and combined with the traits of other animals as well as the level of intelligence of humans made them naturally stronger, with the royal guards being the strongest of the bunch. How was that not a good enough explanation. That's the whole concept behind the Chimera Ants that they talked about at the beginning of the arc in the first place. That's the strength of their species.

QuoteI mean, even low level grunts were more powerful than most Nen users, and that just rubbed me wrong.

This is untrue. Even mid-tier level nen users could defeat them quite easily, and after Gon and Killua got more training they were able to dispatch them easily as well. This is of course in reference to the "lower level grunts" that you were referring to.

QuoteIt would have helped had they had actual personality, but they were totally boring. Youpi was fun to hate at times (but he didn't really do a whole lot outside of that awesome fight), Pouf's scheming was fun (but he needed something else to me)... And you already know I dislike Pitou totally for being irritating on top of having no personality.

Once again, I respectfully disagree. They "did" develop personalities. Yeah, they were 1-dimensional for most of the arc in their blind loyalty to Meruem but during the second half of the arc during the attack from the Hunters things changed. The main problem was how Komugi totally altered the King's perception of life and himself, and they feared that he would start sympathizing with humans and started showing worry and desperation. Pufu secretly started doing things behind Meruem's back based on what "he" thought was best for Meruem's sake (which is important because he was finally thinking for himself instead of just following what his king said), and he even managed to convince Yupi to do so. Also, Pitou started showing mixed emotions when she was ordered by Meruem to heal Komugi, and then when Gon was ready to fight her and didn't care about letting her finish her duty to the king, which caused her to have even more mixed emotions. That's personality. I'm not saying that its likeable (and as I said, they are intentionally written to be unlikeable characters), but you can't argue that they were intentionally written as 1-dimensional lackeys for Togashi to develop throughout the arc, and he did a good job of that.

You can't just ignore the fact that they did develop just because you hate them. I can understand that type of thing isn't for you, though, but I personally find it intriguing to have villains like that. I'm talking about the tragic type who are purposely written as unsympathetic and in a sense mindless in their devotion, but are still interesting all the same just to analyze in terms of their growth. They were never fully 3-dimensional characters, but they weren't necessarily cardboard by the end of the arc, either, which is interesting considering how paper-thin they were when they first appeared.

QuoteThat said, as a whole I did enjoy the arc. It had a lot of great ideas, went on far too long, and had a lot of great moments. But somehow I doubt Togashi will ever do an arc like this again (for better or worse) so at the very least we can savor how unique it was.

I certainly think that, if nothing else, this arc will be very interesting to look back on years down the road. Its strange because it was written over such a long period of time, but I'd like to see how the whole entire thing holds up as a uniform whole arc if I were to look back on it another 10 years from now (assuming that I was still reading manga by that point in time of my life).
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 20, 2011, 11:04:15 PM
Yeah, I know that was the thing with the ants was their ability to grow. I dunno, I guess it didn't seem believable to me until a specific point in the story. But as I said, most of the first part of that arc I've mostly forgotten because of how much murder death kill took the attention away from everything else.

And yes, the guard do have personalities, I just didn't feel they were very strong or elaborated on very much compared to even the lower rank soldiers or Meruem. I'm not saying they're mindless drones (even if I seem to be coming off that way), just that their personalities for me were probably the least defined I've seen from Togashi for a villain. Not liking them is only part of it, I don't like Leo but I thought he was a really good villain and character. I'd say I'd read it again, but I really don't think I can at this point. I'll probably just wait for the anime to adapt it and hope they manage to smooth it all over.

I'm expecting something really good for the next arc, though. Togashi kind of blew through the finale fast after his hiatus, so he must have some idea of what to do next.

Short of him having Killua team with Knuckle and Leorio (the arc I want  ;)), I just can't imagine what is next.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 20, 2011, 11:23:07 PM
If nothing else, I can at least always be sure that Togashi will never be out of interesting ideas. I'd argue that ever since the Chapter Black arc of YYH, he has always brought interesting ideas to the table in his work (including GI, which was bland in execution but still and interesting "idea" in terms of the whole game scenario).

I just hope that with this next arc, Togashi can get back down to nailing the perfect balance of good pacing, action, and story with the overall high level of quality that he was able to execute with the Chapter Black arc of YYH and the York Shin City arc of HXH. I feel that he could have done that with the Chimera arc had he stayed more in tune with the series and stopped taking 1+ year long breaks after every 10-20 chapters or so, but while the arc as a whole was an interesting read its far from his best, and that's pretty much that. I really hope that he can now stay focused and deliver something truly memorable and above all entertaining. I have faith that he still has the skill and talent as a mangaka to pull that off, but the real question is whether the has the devotion to his work to keep things going without taking anymore damn breaks.

Like I said, I feel that his abrupt ending to the Chimera arc was a good decision on his part as it really needed to end. Now he just needs to get the series back on track by making more good decisions in terms of bringing back old favorite characters and introducing interesting new concepts into the story.

Also, at the very least, no matter what I can still always safely say that whatever Togashi has to put out will still be a million times more interesting than what people like Kubo and Matsuena (among other mangaka) are putting out. As someone who used to like series like Bleach and HSDK, both of those manga are at all-time lows right now and I just kind of find it funny that even at its worst, a series like HXH is still far more interesting than what series of those types have on offer (yet for some reason both of those manga are still way more popular than this one....though I guess you CAN actually partly blame Togashi for that).
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 20, 2011, 11:29:51 PM
Yeah, even though I had issues with the arc, it was never really dull to read throughout the story, which is quite impressive considering how unwieldy the whole thing was.

Short of Bakuman and Enigma, it is probably the most interesting thing in Jump right now (sad that its the only interesting battle manga next to One Piece, though) and I hope with the coming arc that he can further send the uninspired Bleach-shonen down the rankings and show us all what he's made of again.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 20, 2011, 11:46:12 PM
I'd say that One Piece is a bit more consistent (to me the only major low-point in the series was Skypiea, which to be fair the series made up for with Enies Lobby which was the first arc to surpass Alabasta), and the current arc is nearing its climax so its obviously more exciting at the moment, but I think Hunter X Hunter has the advantage of being more unique and at its best can really trump One Piece (though to me it was only at its absolute best during York Shin City, so far). Either way, though, both are good battle manga and are basically the ONLY good battle manga that I'm currently reading and even aware of, Jump or otherwise.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 21, 2011, 10:21:11 PM
So, as I said I'm re-reading the Chimera arc, but this time I'm reading the actual manga volumes with all of the redone artwork by Togashi. I wasn't expecting much, but WOW! This is redone from start to finish. Every panel has been practically re-drawn from scratch and the improvements from the original chapter releases are astounding. I mean, when I read this back a few years ago, I had to read prints from what was published in Jump Magazine when the series was in weekly serialization. Most of it was horrendous and it baffled me how the editors and Jump found such horribly done and sloppy artwork to be acceptable to run in their magazine (its really a testament to how good of a story-teller Togashi is since that quality alone is what kept the series alive). I'm really glad that he took the time and care to re-draw so many chapters from scratch (I suppose he had to have done SOMETHING useful during all of his time on hiatus, after all). Later on I'll post some comparison pictures if I can find them online, just to show you the tremendous amount of difference between the weekly releases and the redone manga volumes.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2011, 01:54:47 PM
And with this week's chapter the Chimera Ant arc is finally, officially over. All loose ends have been completely tied up. Now it looks like before the next major arc starts, there'll be some stuff about the next chairman to be elected by the Hunter's association. To be honest, though, I'm really only interested in seeing what Killua is up to, right now. Hopefully Togashi gets back to him pretty soon.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 28, 2011, 05:52:30 PM
That was a good end to the arc.

Though I really hope we don't focus on these re-elections for the next arc, as I don't really care. I'd rather see what Killua is up to.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2011, 06:35:00 PM
I don't think that Togashi will put too much focus on the election, but I do think that he will touch upon it since it may become an important plot point later. Since I've been re-reading the Chimera arc, I noticed that Morau hinted that there have been certain corrupt individuals within the Hunter's organization who have been looking to take Netero's spot as Chairman for years, and now that he's dead they have the perfect opportunity to do that. Perhaps that may lead to a scandal of sorts in a later arc in the series.

Either way, though, I'm much more interested to see if Togashi can find a good way to write Leorio and Kurapika back into the story. Its been a long-ass time sine we've last see them; even taking all of Togashi's hiatus time out of the picture, we still haven't seen them since the beginning of the Greed Island arc. Now would be the perfect time to put them back into the story, especially since Togashi has pretty much temporarily written Gon out of the story for the time being (we need some other main characters besides just Killua to move the story along).
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 08, 2012, 03:14:50 PM
So, I've been re-reading the Yu Yu Hakusho manga. I'm almost done with the Dark Tournament arc (the manga goes by pretty quick). I still feel like the DT and CB arcs of YYH were when Togashi's writing was at his best. That and the York Shin City arc of Hunter X Hunter are the perfect examples of when he's in his prime. Certain parts of the Chimera Ant arc were also amazingly good, but that arc fluctuated too much quality to me for my liking.

Either way, though, I'd still say that Togashi is my favorite writer for shonen manga, specifically because almost all of his work is like a middle finger to the trope-heavy nature of other mainstream shonen series, and Togashi manages to pull that off without ever seeming self-indulgent of full of himself. At some points he does go overboard, though, but I'd be hard-pressed to find another shonen mangaka with more interesting work than his, personally.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on August 08, 2012, 06:13:49 PM
The manga stays good up until literally the end of Chapter Black when he almost totally loses complete interest in the story and characters. I'm still confused as to why he didn't just attempt to wrap it up there.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 08, 2012, 06:23:48 PM
Once again, I think that the most logical reason is because either his editor and/or Shonen Jump wouldn't just let him. From the little research I've done, and from reading Bakuman (but I did honestly research this one a little bit on my own :P ), I do know that mangaka aren't free-lance for SJ. They have to sign a contract, and that basically forces them to lose their rights to have a say on when they want to end their story. It ends whenever the editor-in-chief gives it the OK to do so, or in most cases the axe. In this case I'm willing to bet that Togashi wanted to end the series with CB, but of course since it was actually a good series during CB and presumably good series were popular for actually being good back then in Japan, the higher-ups at SJ probably wouldn't just let him end it like that while it was on its A game, so then Togashi gave them the middle finger by not giving a shit for the rest of the series' run, and thus it ended the way that it did. Yeah, that's all just speculation, but that seems like the most likely scenario to me.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 02, 2013, 09:42:00 PM
So, somebody linked me to this (http://comipress.com/article/2007/02/11/1492) old article, recently, and now I finally have some semblance of a reason for why Yu Yu Hakusho ended as abruptly and poorly as it did, and why Togashi takes so many breaks from Hunter X Hunter. Apparently, the policy of WSJ at the time was to force the authors to continue a popular series no matter what it took, and in the process they royally pissed Togashi off as he was feeling overworked at the time. Thus, he ended up drastically rushing YYH with the final arc and giving it a godawful last few chapters for good measure. In other words, its clear that he knew they were bad and he did it on purpose as a big "fuck you" to WSJ's editorial department....and consequently the fans. :srs:

With HXH, its clear that the series has a massive popularity in Japan that still gives it a reason to exist, as each new volume release really pushes sales and makes a ton of money for Shueisha. On that note, they also won't dare drop the manga from WSJ  because they realize that Togashi quite frankly has them by the nut-sack.

Now, mind you, what I'm saying here is mainly my speculation based on the data presented to me, but it seems to make the most sense. In that regard, if the way that I perceive the situation is correct, then I can't really blame Togashi too much for YYH's ending if he was indeed being overworked. Granted that, no other mangaka used that excuse, but to be fair Togashi proved his worth with the quality of his stories and characters in the manga being higher than most of his competition. That said, if you are feeling extremely overworked, then I do feel that its reasonable to have a break in order to get yourself rested up, straightened out, and be able to prioritize your tasks better. That said, I feel like Togashi got way too abusive with his power in HXH, and now WSJ is doing the wrong thing in the opposite extreme, by letting Togashi walk all over them. That said, its not like they can really threaten him. Even if they said that they would cancel his series and wouldn't mind taking the hit in sales, its not like Togashi is necessarily in any financial crisis, from what I understand. His manga properties bring in a ton of money, and more importantly, his wife Naoko Takeuchi is the creator of Sailor Moon, which apparently still sells merchandise really well in Japan to the point that she brings in even more money than Togashi. What this means is that Togashi can pull a "fuck you" on Shonen Jump any time he wants now, but its still a despicable practice, if you ask me, considering just how hard so many other mangaka have to bust their asses just to get their series into the magazine, and how much harder they have to work just to keep it in there.

What I'm trying to say is that I can defend Togashi's actions for Yu Yu Hakusho, even if I don't like them, while I feel that he is the one who's in the wrong when it comes to HXH's serialization. At any rate, I just thought that I'd share this info and my take on it with anyone else who happens to be interested.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2013, 10:19:27 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 02, 2013, 09:42:00 PM
So, somebody linked me to this (http://comipress.com/article/2007/02/11/1492) old article, recently, and now I finally have some semblance of a reason for why Yu Yu Hakusho ended as abruptly and poorly as it did, and why Togashi takes so many breaks from Hunter X Hunter. Apparently, the policy of WSJ at the time was to force the authors to continue a popular series no matter what it took, and in the process they royally pissed Togashi off as he was feeling overworked at the time. Thus, he ended up drastically rushing YYH with the final arc and giving it a godawful last few chapters for good measure. In other words, its clear that he knew they were bad and he did it on purpose as a big "fuck you" to WSJ's editorial department....and consequently the fans. :srs:

With HXH, its clear that the series has a massive popularity in Japan that still gives it a reason to exist, as each new volume release really pushes sales and makes a ton of money for Shueisha. On that note, they also won't dare drop the manga from WSJ  because they realize that Togashi quite frankly has them by the nut-sack.

Now, mind you, what I'm saying here is mainly my speculation based on the data presented to me, but it seems to make the most sense. In that regard, if the way that I perceive the situation is correct, then I can't really blame Togashi too much for YYH's ending if he was indeed being overworked. Granted that, no other mangaka used that excuse, but to be fair Togashi proved his worth with the quality of his stories and characters in the manga being higher than most of his competition. That said, if you are feeling extremely overworked, then I do feel that its reasonable to have a break in order to get yourself rested up, straightened out, and be able to prioritize your tasks better. That said, I feel like Togashi got way too abusive with his power in HXH, and now WSJ is doing the wrong thing in the opposite extreme, by letting Togashi walk all over them. That said, its not like they can really threaten him. Even if they said that they would cancel his series and wouldn't mind taking the hit in sales, its not like Togashi is necessarily in any financial crisis, from what I understand. His manga properties bring in a ton of money, and more importantly, his wife Naoki Urasawa is the creator of Sailor Moon, which apparently still sells merchandise really well in Japan to the point that she brings in even more money than Togashi. What this means is that Togashi can pull a "fuck you" on Shonen Jump any time he wants now, but its still a despicable practice, if you ask me, considering just how hard so many other mangaka have to bust their asses just to get their series into the magazine, and how much harder they have to work just to keep it in there.

What I'm trying to say is that I can defend Togashi's actions for Yu Yu Hakusho, even if I don't like them, while I feel that he is the one who's in the wrong when it comes to HXH's serialization. At any rate, I just thought that I'd share this info and my take on it with anyone else who happens to be interested.
Naoko Takeuchi.  :P

It's a shame at what happened to YYH (for many reasons), but HxH is simply not as compelling as YYH for me to sit around and wait for him to Berserk himself a paycheck. The real tragedy is the spot his manga has taken up for the last 10+ years when he has barely done anything with it himself.

If he wants spare time he can always go monthly like the Vinland Saga writer, but that guy has never even missed a deadline and the art is way better than when it was weekly. Togashi probably wouldn't want to put in the extra effort even for one chapter.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on June 02, 2013, 10:21:45 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 02, 2013, 09:42:00 PM
His manga properties bring in a ton of money, and more importantly, his wife Naoki Urasawa is the creator of Sailor Moon, which apparently still sells merchandise really well in Japan to the point that she brings in even more money than Togashi.

Um... I think you meant to say Naoko Takeuchi. Naoki Urasawa is the creator of Monster and 20th Century Boys...and a dude.

In any case, yeah. Togashi ending Yu Yu Hakusho in the way that he did was a selfish but still understandable "fuck you" to Shueshia, but what he's been doing with Hunter X Hunter and it's hiatus' is almost downright despicable since he's abusing his privileges and influence in order to simply be lazy and work whenever he feels like, which is disrespectful to a lot of hard-working mangaka who struggle and work hard to be successful and earn a living, and to his loyal fans who have to put up with his fancies. Still a great writer and mangaka, but it's hard to defend what he's doing with Hunter X Hunter when it's just such a selfish thing to do.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 02, 2013, 10:58:31 PM
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 02, 2013, 10:21:45 PM
Um... I think you meant to say Naoko Takeuchi. Naoki Urasawa is the creator of Monster and 20th Century Boys...and a dude.

Yes, yes, I'm well aware of that. Its called a typo. You guys act like everyone's perfect. :oo:

QuoteIn any case, yeah. Togashi ending Yu Yu Hakusho in the way that he did was a selfish but still understandable "fuck you" to Shueshia, but what he's been doing with Hunter X Hunter and it's hiatus' is almost downright despicable since he's abusing his privileges and influence in order to simply be lazy and work whenever he feels like, which is disrespectful to a lot of hard-working mangaka who struggle and work hard to be successful and earn a living, and to his loyal fans who have to put up with his fancies. Still a great writer and mangaka, but it's hard to defend what he's doing with Hunter X Hunter when it's just such a selfish thing to do.

I agree. Though, I did personally find HXH on the whole to be more compelling than Desensitized did, so on that end the hiatuses really ticked me off more. That is until the most recent one, in which I really felt like the series could have ended, and I'm just going to pretend that it did until the day Togashi decides to resume the series yet again so that he can piss me off.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on August 19, 2013, 12:45:30 AM
"his wife Naoko Takeuchi is the creator of Sailor Moon,"

:SHOCK:
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 19, 2013, 01:10:26 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 19, 2013, 12:45:30 AM
"his wife Naoko Takeuchi is the creator of Sailor Moon,"

:SHOCK:

Am I to understand that you only JUST realized that basic fact? :srs:
Title: Top 10 Reasons Why Yoshihiro Togashi is the Best Shounen Mangaka Ever
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 08, 2013, 12:29:30 AM
10. Good writing that isn't self-indulgent shit....most of the time, anyways

I know, it seems obvious, but you'd be shocked how hard that is to come by, these days.

9. Non-generic-ness

Once again, it's so simple, yet so welcome.

8. Story Time! Yay! :joy:

Togashi's series' actually have plots! And finely weaved together, intricate plots that make sense and aren't too convoluted. It's absolutely mind-boggling stuff, you know. I mean, just the sheer idea that your story should actually go somewhere and have a point to it. I didn't know that shounen mangaka could do that. Who would've thunk it? :SHOCK:

7. Characters

Some shounen mangaka write archetypes, which are "roles" in a specific kind of story formula that are being disguised as what some people think are characters. Togashi writes characters that disguise themselves as archetypes, only to put the archetype itself to shame by showing you just how much he can expand on any given character's role and influence in a story. Case in point: Killua from Hunter X Hunter; he's the "bad boy" of the group, and a former assassin, so naturally you'd expect him to be the "dark-haired" silent character of this series that seems to hate everyone who's not him and look down on others until the main character teaches him the meaning of friendship. Instead, he's kid with bright hair and the most convincingly happy yet sadistic smile you've ever seen. He actually actively welcomes the idea of having friends and downright resents his family forcing him to be an assassin. He doesn't care too much about the morality of killing, but rather just doesn't want to have his destiny as a killer chosen for him. He is actually quite talkative and can be warm and welcoming to allies, but his background ensures that he is never too trusting of anyone, and keeps him always cautious and thinking on his feet. As you can tell, he is introduced as a character that would fit into one archetype, yet his characteristics are so dynamic that you can't label him as any one single archetype. That's what a character is supposed to be, his own individual, rather than the popular idea of what a certain type of individual should be.

6. Characters that just happen to be villains

Most villains in shounen series are just that: the villains. In Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter, most of the villains in those series are really just written as characters, the same as any of the protagonists in those manga. They have their own personalities, and their own motivations and back-stories that usually make perfect sense as to why they became the types of individuals that they are. They just happen to be in direct opposition to the main characters of their respective series, and thus are classified as villains because of that. Sensui became an antagonist because he was too naive for his own good and couldn't handle the truth about humanity not being full of pure-hearted goody-goodies like himself when he actually had cold hard evidence slapped right in his face on an unfortunate confrontation with some of the worst human beings that the world had to offer, so he had a mental breakdown and convinced himself that humanity was his true enemy in order to cope with his shattered psyche in preserving his own image as a figure of justice. In Hunter X Hunter, the Genei Ryodan became who they were because they were born as unwanted children in a literal wasteland and not even officially recorded into existence, so they did the natural thing and banded together with one another and decided to look out for each other as a true family, while essentially having a "fuck you too" kind of attitude toward the rest of the world, and showing no regard or remorse for any outsiders to their group. Compare that to something like, oh, say....Yami, from HSDK. That's a group of martial artists that believe it is morally right to kill people. My question(s) is (are): Why? What's your philosophy on killing? Do you just like to kill, or do you only condone killing when it's necessary? Why do you necessarily have to look down on fellow martial artists who don't like to kill? Why don't you only practice killing on each other instead of just killing whoever in order to piss everyone off? Why do people even support you guys when 90% of you guys are just 1-dimensional ass-holes who's only defining characteristic is that you all kill people and don't feel bad about it? Yeah, none of those questions are even proposed in that series, let alone actually answered. Those villains just exist in the series for the sake of being people to get beat up eventually. They aren't really characters, but once again just archetypes pretending to be characters.

5. ZOMG! Characters....with brains!

Zombies would love characters from Yoshihiro Togashi's series. They have big, ripe, juicy brains right for the picking. I mean, they must, because they are all thinking all of the time. They ponder their emotions, yet in many cases try to think of ways out of tough situations and ordeals, even thinking of how to separate their emotions from rational thought and logic. They don't always just rush into a situation like a typical hot-head and hope for the best result, and when they do, they usually get fucked up pretty badly for it.

4. ZOMG! Characters that just happen to be villains....with brains!

The villains are even smarter, and usually because they have to be, as Togashi gives them their own set of disadvantages in many cases. Like, The Seven Psychics were significantly weaker than Yusuke and most of his friends, so they HAD to rely on dividing them up and outwitting them to even hope to stand a chance against them. And most villains in HXH, with the exception of the Chimera Ants, had their own set of weaknesses to be weary of.

3. Would you like a side of strategy with your manly shounen fight, sir?

Yes, other shounen mangaka have tried to incorporate strategy into their battles. This actually takes a lot of talent to pull off correctly, though. If you get too exposition-heavy, it's boring, and if you're like the manga for Naruto, you can't even tell (or care about) what's going on in a battle more than half of the time. Togashi's battles have strategies that make sense given the abilities that you already know the characters have, and they actually make the fights more interesting, and something which you actually look forward to.

2. What, even if I planned it, shit can still go wrong?

You know what I hate in villains from any kind of series? "All according to plan....hahahaha....." Fuck that shit! That was my biggest problem with The Light from Young Justice. I just can't stand the kind of villain that apparently thought of every possibility and is never gotten the better of until he or she or they are proven wrong by a last-ditch effort at the very end. Every victory they achieve was expected, and every defeat they suffer wasn't really a defeat, but a carefully planned step of their even grander plan that only let's the heroes think that they've won to get them to partake in some other convoluted set of plans. I think that's boring, honestly. You know that I love: The heroes and villains constantly trying to outwit one another, all the while growing increasingly more desperate until they end up in a situation where either one barely wins, or they both inadvertently screw each other over in ways that they didn't entirely intend, and in the end nobody is left completely happy (the York New City arc from HXH, in a nutshell, really). Because, that's just a little bit closer to real life. Plans can fail and crumble before your eyes, and what really tests how smart a character can be lies in how well they can improvise when things actually don't go according to expectations. Togashi is a master or writing those sorts of scenarios, IMO.

1. "If it's interesting, people will read it" (-some guy from Bakuman said some quote like that)

A bit anticlimactic, but it's the most important thing that makes Togashi's manga so damn good. With just a few exceptions, he almost always keeps you hooked by just wanting to see how the plot will unfold and how the characters will develop with each new encounter thrown their way, and just how each of the ordeals he throws at them, big or small, will be resolved. It's rarely anything as cheap as a "will they or won't they" romance plot, or ever as simple as a "will this good guy beat this bad guy" kind of situation. There's always a lot more going on that just eats away at you until the very end of each of his story arcs (The pinnacle of this, for me, was in the Chapter Black arc of Yu Yu Hakusho). To me, that's the sign of a writer who is truly the master of his craft.

Anyways, I just made this list out of boredom, and some of my points are recycled (I tried to disguise it with some humor), but these are the legitimate reasons for why I believe that Togashi is the best shounen mangaka, despite his faults. Speaking of which....next time, I'll do a list of the top 5 things that (almost) make Togashi the worst shounen mangaka of all time. ;)
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 08, 2013, 07:55:19 PM
Almost everyone in Bakuman said that.  :D

But an adventure story has to be about every character going through a journey (not so much a location change) above all for it to work. Neither YYH or HxH have ever deviated from that idea from the first chapter except when he completely lost the plot in Three Kings and lost himself sometimes in Chimera Ant, which is probably why I consider parts of those his worst work. Characters learn, grow, change, and move, and that includes the villains. That's what makes them exciting to read, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 08, 2013, 09:25:14 PM
Yeah, Togashi's ability to make his characters learn and grow from their experiences is truly remarkable. I mean, just compare Yusuke at the beginning of YYH to how he is at the end. He clearly isn't the same little punk that he used to be, yet the core of what makes his character "himself" is still never lost sight of. The same goes for the supporting characters of that show, as well as all o the main characters in HXH. It seems like such a small thing to some people, but to me it makes a world a difference between these shows just being like any other shounen, and instead being the true masterpieces of the genre like they really are, IMO.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Angus on October 24, 2013, 05:15:11 PM
Ok, I'm still in the backwoods. What Togashi series should I pick up after YYH?
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on October 24, 2013, 05:29:35 PM
Pretty much just Hunter X Hunter. I mean, yeah, there is also Level E that I'd recommend you check out, but that's a short series and also a comedy, and isn't much similar to Yu Yu Hakusho at all. Hunter X Hunter is like Yu Yu Hakusho in terms of Togashi's writing style for story arcs and characters, and also because, well, it's a battle manga for the shonen demographic like it as well. While Hunter X Hunter is much more inconsistent than Yu Yu Hakusho, it definitely is one of the smartest written battle shonen mangas as well, with the York New City and Chimera Ant arcs (baring bits from the first third of the latter) being some of the greatest arcs of all time for that genre. It's certainly a series I'd recommend reading if you enjoyed Yu Yu Hakusho.

You can either read the manga, which is about 30 volumes so far, all of which is available legally by Viz, or watch the 2011 anime, which is ongoing, and available to watch on Crunchyroll. Generally, I think the 1999 anime is better for the parts it adapts (up to York New), and while the dvds are hard to find nowadays (and the dub sucks), it's another, if a bit less easier, option to start on the series. Of course, you can always find ways to start and go through the series illegally, but I think it's much easier to take advantage of the legal options, myself.  ;)
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on October 24, 2013, 05:42:03 PM
Pretty much everything Cartoon X said.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Angus on October 25, 2013, 06:04:01 PM
Thanks!  :thumbup: I got Netflix and the free version of Crunchyroll.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on February 21, 2014, 01:05:05 AM
 I thought I'd share this pretty interesting discussion about Hunter X Hunter. It's a good review from the Weekly Manga Recap guys that I think tackles some fair points on the strengths and flaws of the series. (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/podcasts/weekly-manga-recap/42349-hunter-x-hunter).

I appreciate that this was a balanced review, with three different perspectives on the series; one a fan, one more in the middle, and one negative. Some criticisms I do agree with, but I disagree with a lot of Y Ruler Of Time's criticisms, though, especially concerning the way Togashi structures and ends his arcs (and of course his Leorio criticism isn't even legit especially since Rollo T and Special K pretty much explained why what he wanted ACTUALLY HAPPENS). And I seriously don't agree that how things ultimately end up tend to be "let-downs." Yes, the ending to arcs like York New might not be "satisfying," but they make more sense story and character-wise and I find it to be more realistic and sensical than if they had a bunch of one on one battles with the Phantom Troupe or something. I like that stuff and it's what makes the series stand out to me. It's smart and defiant on shonen series tropes and reader expectations, and more often than not I think that makes for a more refreshing and interesting series.

One criticism they made that I do agree with is how Togashi sets up things sometimes but never follows through with them, or how things that seem important end up being not (f.e. going over how to auction/haggle for stuff at the auction in YNC, Killua's fat brother's story in the York New arc, Leorio's friend in YNC deciding to become a hunter, Gyro). That's a bad habit of his that comes from the obvious fact he's just making things up as he goes and doesn't plan out anything, or changes direction when he gets bored with how things are. Most of the time it makes things more interesting because Togashi is great at building up stories, but some stuff like Gyro feels like a waste of time when it's not brought back in an immediate way, or if it never amounts to anything like Killua's fat brother's story in YNC.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 21, 2014, 06:23:35 AM
The thing about bargaining/haggling DOES come back. They use that same concept to escape from Nobunaga later on.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on June 24, 2014, 08:39:36 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 18, 2011, 04:25:56 PM
The ending of the chapter was kind of weird, or rather the last image was kind of weird. I can't tell if it meant that Werefin's fate is already sealed (in that he's going to be a dead duck....errrr....wolf right at the start of the next chapter), or if he's in "deep-shit" zone right now with a slimmer of a chance to talk his way out of it. By the looks of it he can no longer talk his way out of his situation, and Meruem can already tell that he has turned traitor, and knowing Togashi's writing style he will mercilessly kill off characters like that, so I'm pretty sure that Werefin is already as good as dead. Still, I'm really anticipating the next chapter to see if that's really how things turn out, since this series is full of unpredictable twists and deviations from expected norms and conventions for this type of story-line. Its a true testament to Togashi's skill as a mangaka, even if his quality is very inconsistent these days.
This shows how unpredictable Togashi's writing can be. :)
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on June 24, 2014, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 24, 2014, 08:39:36 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 18, 2011, 04:25:56 PM
The ending of the chapter was kind of weird, or rather the last image was kind of weird. I can't tell if it meant that Werefin's fate is already sealed (in that he's going to be a dead duck....errrr....wolf right at the start of the next chapter), or if he's in "deep-shit" zone right now with a slimmer of a chance to talk his way out of it. By the looks of it he can no longer talk his way out of his situation, and Meruem can already tell that he has turned traitor, and knowing Togashi's writing style he will mercilessly kill off characters like that, so I'm pretty sure that Werefin is already as good as dead. Still, I'm really anticipating the next chapter to see if that's really how things turn out, since this series is full of unpredictable twists and deviations from expected norms and conventions for this type of story-line. Its a true testament to Togashi's skill as a mangaka, even if his quality is very inconsistent these days.
This shows how unpredictable Togashi's writing can be. :)
The next chapter will be a time jump with Gon running a noodle-cart stand and explaining what the audience missed through poorly written dialogue.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 03, 2014, 04:00:52 PM
I just found out recently that Togashi was actually the editor for Kuroko no Basket (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?1v3mkeneq06x8hm).

It's interesting that he's also a Jump editor. Though, I wish he could have tried more to make Fujimaki write that final match with Rakuzan better.  :P
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 04:08:58 PM
Actually, that explains a lot. You see, if it was early days Togashi, this manga would probably be a lot better, including the final battle, as he'd give Tadatoshi good advice for characterization and story-telling. Modern Togashi, however, is far too up his own ass with needless exposition and out-of-nowhere characterization, so with his influence, it's no wonder that the final arc felt so awkward in execution. Granted that, with his writing, I think that he could have definitely written a better and far more interesting villain than Akashi, but still, everything else bad about the manga does remind me of stuff that he does wrong in HXH, as well. That said, it was still a good manga, overall, so you could say that his influence had positive aspects, as well, but either way, it's Tadatoshi's story, not his, so the majority of the credit for both good and bad should really go to him, not Togashi.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 04:16:43 PM
Reading some more of the interview, it's nice to see both Fujimaki and Togashi paying respect to Slam Dunk. It's especially good to see Fujimaki acknowledge it as one of the best in the genre. Just for that I'll give whatever your next project is a shot.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 03, 2014, 04:49:08 PM
Well, that's not too surprising, considering Slam Dunk is one of the most popular manga ever. The only sports manga that was more popular and beats it in sales is Touch.

Reading on in the interview, It's interesting how Togashi intentionally made Gon a simple character to make the characters around him more interesting and help him develop the story more easily. Not sure if that was particularly necessary, since Yusuke was a fleshed-out character and YYH is a better series than HXH partly because of that, but Gon did become more interesting later on in Chimera Ant so this really isn't an issue anymore. One thing I like, though, is that his only belief as a manga is to be able "to kill off the protagonist anytime," by which he explains that he's interested in breaking any sense of security/expectations people have and not just play by the normal conventions of shonen manga. With that philosophy, it's really no wonder why both Yu Yu and HXH are so unique among battle-shonen, and why they are two of the best.

Side note: if Fujimaki makes his next manga a golfing manga like Togashi suggests he does, I will also make sure to keep up with it (unless it's bad, of course).
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 04:52:13 PM
I think Gon works well just like that. Gon's probably my least favorite important character in HXH but I think he fits best as the main character.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Cartoon X on September 03, 2014, 04:49:08 PMReading on in the interview, It's interesting how Togashi intentionally made Gon a simple character to make the characters around him more interesting and help him develop the story more easily.

I always suspected that he wrote Gon that way on purpose, so that doesn't surprise me. He always came off as relatively more simple and neutral  to me, in order to provide more contrast to the other characters. Normally that would be a bad thing, but I don't agree that It means he's boring (which is something that Desensitized might say). Togashi still goes into his character in great detail, and shows both the strengths and weaknesses of being the way that he is.

QuoteNot sure if that was particularly necessary, since Yusuke was a fleshed-out character and YYH is a better series than HXH partly because of that

Actually, while I totally enjoy Yusuke, I'd argue that he is also the simplest of the main 4 characters. I could easily go into detail about how Kurama, Hiei, and yes, even Kuwabara's are far more nuanced than he is, but I think what makes Yusuke interesting is that on his own, he's not a typical shounen protagonist at all. He's actually rather apathetic to doing what's "right," and doesn't care for doing things by any ideology. He's the rare hero that will sink to less than desirable methods if that's what it takes to get the job done, yet he still clearly understands morals and it's not like that doesn't bother him, as demonstrated with his fight with Doctor. Even so, he's still markedly more simple than the other characters in the manga and anime, including the villains.

QuoteOne thing I like, though, is that his only belief as a manga is to be able "to kill off the protagonist anytime," by which he explains that he's interested in breaking any sense of security/expectations people have and not just play by the normal conventions of shonen manga. With that philosophy, it's really no wonder why both Yu Yu and HXH are so unique among battle-shonen, and why they are two of the best.

Granted that, he has yet to deliver on it with HXH (and never did with YYH), but I certainly wouldn't put it past him to kill off Gon or any of the other main characters before the series is finally done, and seeing as how that won't likely happen in our lifetime, I still wouldn't be surprised to see it happen anyways a few hundred chapters (and presumably a few decades) down the line. :P
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 05:06:05 PM
That Hunter X Hunter 2032 anime is going to rock.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 03, 2014, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 05:04:20 PM

Granted that, he has yet to deliver on it with HXH (and never did with YYH), but I certainly wouldn't put it past him to kill off Gon or any of the other main characters before the series is finally done, and seeing as how that won't likely happen in our lifetime, I still wouldn't be surprised to see it happen anyways a few hundred chapters (and presumably a few decades) down the line. :P

Based on what he explained afterwards, I thought the implication of what he meant by that statement was not that he literally wants to kill off his protagonists or that he's planning to (though, he may very well do it sometime, who knows?), but that he likes to play with his audience's expectations and surprise them by not following traditional conventions. Which, of course, he does.  ;)
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 05:20:38 PM
Reading further on in the interview, Togashi said that he had absolutely no involvement in the YYH anime adaptation. And that explains why it's so much better than the manga. :D

He even admits that Kuwabara's VA understood the character better than he did, and influenced how he wrote the character afterward. That's a pretty balsy thing for him to say, even if done in a joking manner. For all the things you could call Togashi, it's at least refreshing to know that he isn't full of himself. He sounds very humble, going by the interview, at least.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 03, 2014, 05:24:34 PM
From all the interviews I've read, I've found that most mangaka are very humble, actually. But yeah, it's certainly interesting that the YYH anime actually influenced the manga, in some way.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 05:26:10 PM
Another interesting thing is from Togashi is that he believes that, even when the heroes win, they should also lose something in the process to contrast that win, so the audience never feels completely comfortable. That is something that he definitely applies in spades to both YYH and HXH.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 03, 2014, 06:19:45 PM
It sure does explain a lot of his storytelling process, and also why Kuroko felt like it had a spark to it that felt genuine. Shame he couldn't reign in some of the manga's lesser qualities, but still, it was a good first effort.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 05:26:10 PM
Another interesting thing is from Togashi is that he believes that, even when the heroes win, they should also lose something in the process to contrast that win, so the audience never feels completely comfortable. That is something that he definitely applies in spades to both YYH and HXH.
Unless we're talking the end of manga Three Kings.

Nobody wins there.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 06:30:55 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on September 03, 2014, 06:19:45 PMIt sure does explain a lot of his storytelling process, and also why Kuroko felt like it had a spark to it that felt genuine. Shame he couldn't reign in some of the manga's lesser qualities, but still, it was a good first effort.

Just to be clear, Togashi didn't start out as Fujimaki's editor. According to the interview, it was someone else, and then the editing position changed hands to Togashi later on in the manga's run. Although, Fujimaki said that Togashi has been his editor for a while, now, so it's probably not stretching it to assume that Togashi was his editor for at least a hundred chapters or so.

Quotewe're talking the end of manga Three Kings.

Nobody wins there.

True but....you use that arc against Togashi way too much. :sweat:

I mean, I hate it in the manga as well, and I believe that Togashi even admitted it was bad in another interview I once read, saying that he ended the manga out of selfishness, but even so, I think you focus a bit too much on what he didn't do well compared to the plethora of stuff that he has gotten right over the years. This arc and just the first third if the Chimera Ant arc (and only select bits of that, really), are the only bad writing that he has ever done. The Saint Beast and GI arcs were mediocre, not bad. Everything else he has done ranges from good to amazing, IMO, including Level E.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 07:00:39 PM
I disagree. Greed Island is bad and Saint Beasts is average. Greed Island had 4 new characters worth mentioning at most, 3 which are in Chairman's Election making this a moot point since 2 of the 3 could have just been introduced there (Bisky could have just been brought in during Chimera Ants)..which just leaves Razor..., ugly backgrounds, lame villains, too much expository (explaining the game), the training didn't amount to much and it had like 2 good action scenes. Not that the fights make a season but that would have at least helped. All in all, it did not help Gon find Ging at all, which is the only reason Gon went there. The second Ging was shown deciding to have Gon and a friend be teleported to Kite because he only wanted Gon to meet him made the arc almost completely useless. Chimera Ants indirectly lead Gon to Ging, of course and this time a bunch of new allies were left over.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 03, 2014, 07:05:55 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 07:00:39 PM
I disagree. Greed Island is bad and Saint Beasts is average. Greed Island had 4 new characters worth mentioning at most, 3 which are in Chairman's Election making this a moot point since 2 of the 3 could have just been introduced there (Bisky could have just been brought in during Chimera Ants)..which just leaves Razor..., ugly backgrounds, lame villains, too much expository (explaining the game), the training didn't amount to much and it had like 2 good action scenes. Not that the fights make a season but that would have at least helped. All in all, it did not help Gon find Ging at all, which is the only reason Gon went there. The second Ging was shown deciding to have Gon and a friend be teleported to Kite because he only wanted Gon to meet him made the arc almost completely useless. Chimera Ants indirectly lead Gon to Ging, of course and this time a bunch of new allies were left over.
Wow, I didn't think someone would agree with me on Greed Island. I mean, I like the ideas and concepts behind it, but as a story arc I just really didn't like it much at all. Then there's Chimera Ant with more training and you just wonder what he was thinking with Greed Island.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 07:10:59 PM
Must be that Dragon Quest addiction. :> I said I thought Greed Island was bad in the past but never expanded on it. Then again, watching both Chimera Ants and Chairman's Election makes me see how obsolete it is and it helped create half my points against it. Premise wise, Greed Island sounds like a great change of pace and adventure but it was executed all wrong. Another thing I forgot to mention (I think you said this?), they could have just got a call from Kite (or just found out that he needed help from the Hunter site) and skipped the whole thing. I wouldn't have minded at all if Togashi made Greed Island worthwhile but yeah...
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 03, 2014, 07:16:04 PM
I honestly like the first half or so of Greed Island decently enough, but I do think it's a pretty meh arc overall.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 07:20:06 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 07:00:39 PM
I disagree. Greed Island is bad and Saint Beasts is average. Greed Island had 4 new characters worth mentioning at most, 3 which are in Chairman's Election making this a moot point since 2 of the 3 could have just been introduced there (Bisky could have just been brought in during Chimera Ants)..which just leaves Razor..., ugly backgrounds, lame villains, too much expository (explaining the game), the training didn't amount to much and it had like 2 good action scenes. Not that the fights make a season but that would have at least helped. All in all, it did not help Gon find Ging at all, which is the only reason Gon went there. The second Ging was shown deciding to have Gon and a friend be teleported to Kite because he only wanted Gon to meet him made the arc almost completely useless. Chimera Ants indirectly lead Gon to Ging, of course and this time a bunch of new allies were left over.

I find it odd that you'd complain about the exposition in the GI arc when the whole series is full of it. If anything, the Chimera Ant arc was much worse when it came to needless exposition. And as for not finding Gon help Ging, neither did any of the arcs before GI. Your reasons don't do anything to highlight the GI arc as bad. It's just nit-picking elements that can be used against any other arc in the series, especially the stuff about backgrounds and such since that's just standard cheap budget animation (and once again, the CA arc was even worse, in that regard).

The Saint Beasts arc, while average, is worse than the GI arc because at least the latter arc had some unique concepts and thought put into it. The game you complain about was pretty much the best thing about the GI arc (it's the constant training and lame villains that were the main detractors). With the SB arc, the villains were just as generically evil and boring, and in this case, while GI at least had 2 interesting fights, the SB arc had absolutely none. It was the biggest waist of space in the series, considering that the only significant thing that it contributed was having the main four characters come together for the first time, which to be frank didn't even matter, anyways, since they were forced to work together in the DT arc, so it wouldn't have needed an arc of them working together beforehand to explain that.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 03, 2014, 07:28:26 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 07:20:06 PM

I find it odd that you'd complain about the exposition in the GI arc when the whole series is full of it.

To be fair, Greed Island had like an entire chapter that was basically nothing but explaining all the different cards and what each one did and stuff  (http://www.mangahere.co/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v14/c132/8.html)...and few of them really mattered at the end of the day.

Every arc in HXH might be full of exposition, but Greed Island's exposition often felt like unnecessary padding, moreso than Chimera Ant's, imo. 
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 07:31:37 PM
Also, I should make it clear that I'm not defending the GI arc as a good one. I think it's incredibly mediocre. However, none of the reasons that GSF presented are convincing points (IMO) to make it a bad arc without, by extension, also making many other arcs in this and other battle shounen series equally as bad for being guilty of the same faults.

To be clear and put things in perspective, a "bad" arc is something like the Three Kings arc in the YYH manga. It has nice ideas, but horrid execution. Various plot-lines are presented and most are never followed up on, the characters get no significant development, the "villains" or opposition are barely ever present, and the arc doesn't even have an ending. Comparatively, the GI arc at least presents full motivations for each of its new characters, even if they aren't very interesting, and it at least stays consistent with its themes and tells a complete story without completely dropping the ball, for that it's just average, but compared to actual bad writing, it doesn't ever dip "that" low in quality.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 07:34:35 PM
Quote from: Cartoon X on September 03, 2014, 07:28:26 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 07:20:06 PM

I find it odd that you'd complain about the exposition in the GI arc when the whole series is full of it.

To be fair, Greed Island had like an entire chapter that was basically nothing but explaining all the different cards and what each one did and stuff  (http://www.mangahere.co/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v14/c132/8.html)...and few of them really mattered at the end of the day.

Every arc in HXH might be full of exposition, but Greed Island's exposition often felt like unnecessary padding, moreso than Chimera Ant's, imo.

OK, and how about the whole few chapters/episodes that we had Gon and Killua learning how to auction (which had a lot of exposition attached to it) and also trying to raise money in York New City? Remember how they ended up not using any of that to actually attain access to Greed Island at the end? I find it funny that you would point out GI's shortcoming but completely ignore one even worse than that, even though it was from a better arc.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 03, 2014, 07:40:12 PM
I didn't like the auctioning either, actually. Pretty much for the reasons you stated.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 03, 2014, 07:48:35 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 07:34:35 PM
OK, and how about the whole few chapters/episodes that we had Gon and Killua learning how to auction (which had a lot of exposition attached to it) and also trying to raise money in York New City? Remember how they ended up not using any of that to actually attain access to Greed Island at the end? I find it funny that you would point out GI's shortcoming but completely ignore one even worse than that, even though it was from a better arc.

I honestly didn't even remember that until you mentioned it just now. As far as pointlessness goes, the whole stuff with the Cards is just more memorably pointless to me. But I suppose being forgettable is worse than memorably bad, so I suppose you're right.  Though, that doesn't make either of them less pointless.

I'm not really defending GSF's position, in the sense that I myself don't think Greed Island is a worse arc than Saint Beasts (though, I can't say I hate either. I'm just meh on them). That said, I do think it's incredibly mediocre and very boring to read, and that the exposition felt more like padding and came off worse since there was far less good in the arc compared to the others, and can see why GSF and Spark really don't care for it. At least Saint Beasts was short in both versions, but Greed Island is actually longer than York New was in the manga.  :sweat:
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 07:52:25 PM
Well, I don't hate Greed Island (it doesn't cause me pain or make me question Togashi's abilities or anything) but I do think it's bad.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 03, 2014, 07:54:58 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 07:43:44 PM
Why so, Cartoon X? (about liking the first half of Greed Island. I didn't think 4 new posts would come up) No snark. 

Well, I suppose first half is not quite accurate. More like...second quarter, I'd say. I like the first few parts when Bisky first starts training Gon and Killua. While it's basic training stuff, I found it fairly amusing for what it was, and I enjoyed Bisky a lot as a character. It did start to drag later on, though. I think the point I really started to get bored with the arc during the dodgeball game, which I know E-K really likes, but personally didn't find that entertaining and felt it went on for too long.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 08:46:02 PM
Quote from: Cartoon X on September 03, 2014, 07:54:58 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 07:43:44 PM
Why so, Cartoon X? (about liking the first half of Greed Island. I didn't think 4 new posts would come up) No snark. 

Well, I suppose first half is not quite accurate. More like...second quarter, I'd say. I like the first few parts when Bisky first starts training Gon and Killua. While it's basic training stuff, I found it fairly amusing for what it was, and I enjoyed Bisky a lot as a character. It did start to drag later on, though. I think the point I really started to get bored with the arc during the dodgeball game, which I know E-K really likes, but personally didn't find that entertaining and felt it went on for too long.

The Dodgeball game was fun. It had tons of strategy like the best fights in this series, and unlike the CA arc, Togashi was having a good time playing around with the concept rather than getting way too dark and serious. The training was really boring and dragged out, though.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 09:03:40 PM
Actually, now that I think about it, I was just trying to have a conversation with Desensitized and CX about Togashi and about his editor status for KnB. I made a post in response to Desen and than like in many other instances, GSF has to reply to a really minor comment from my post in a condescending attitude for no reason other than to cause conflict and derail the thread. But, I try to avoid conflict and just simply defend my opinion since he brought it up. But then he makes a really bloated post in response that is even more demeaning yet doesn't actually intellectually address any of my points with substantial supporting evidence other than GSF just stating his opinion. Then I foolishly take the time to respond to him, anyways, and realize that I am wasting my time when he posts yet another thoughtless comment simply for the sake of derailing the thread some more.

So, it's another case where I go from having an interesting discussion to a pointless and bitter argument over something that I clearly don't care about that much. Thank you, GSF. Thanks for derailing yet another thread with your pointless arguing. You have really proven to be a true pro at sucking the fun out of everything. :thumbup:

For the record, I had a long-ass post that addresses all of GSF's arguments, and since I know he's going to act smug and say that I didn't have any arguments, I PM'ed the post to CX just so that someone can vouch for that fact. That said, it's not worth wasting it on this thread because I refuse to derail it any further. As someone who is and prefers to act older than 12-year old, I'm pretty much above that stuff.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 09:08:59 PM
What in the hell are you talking about? I just wanted to see your opinion on Greed Island.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 09:10:35 PM
Quote from: Cartoon X on September 03, 2014, 07:54:58 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 07:43:44 PM
Why so, Cartoon X? (about liking the first half of Greed Island. I didn't think 4 new posts would come up) No snark. 

Well, I suppose first half is not quite accurate. More like...second quarter, I'd say. I like the first few parts when Bisky first starts training Gon and Killua. While it's basic training stuff, I found it fairly amusing for what it was, and I enjoyed Bisky a lot as a character. It did start to drag later on, though. I think the point I really started to get bored with the arc during the dodgeball game, which I know E-K really likes, but personally didn't find that entertaining and felt it went on for too long.
I see. The dodgeball game was my favorite part too. :D
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 09:13:00 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 09:08:59 PM
What in the hell are you talking about? I just wanted to see your opinion on Greed Island.

A) You wanted to argue with it, not see it

B) I deleted it because I don't want to add fuel to an argument about a mediocre arc that I'm not that interested in, even though I do firmly stand by the opinion that it's mediocre, and not bad
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Foggle on September 03, 2014, 09:27:44 PM
Play nice, fellas. There's no need to bait each other. Perhaps it would be good if Cartoon X posts the contents of the PM.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: Foggle on September 03, 2014, 09:27:44 PM
Play nice, fellas. There's no need to bait each other. Perhaps it would be good if Cartoon X posts the contents of the PM.

I would request that he doesn't. I sent it to him just so that he could vouch that I did indeed address all of GSF's points in case he denied it. I actually don't want to further derail this thread with this uninteresting argument, though, which is why I deleted it in the first place.

My snide remarks after that were because I'm sick of GSF always spoiling a good discussion topics with demeaning arguments just for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 09:32:09 PM
Yes, do not ever insult me, ek. Play nice.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 09:38:13 PM
You see? Not a word of that contributed at all to meaningful discussion. He's just trying to instigate me. I shall proceed to ignore it by talking about relevant stuff again.

CX: In response to our earlier discussion, what aspects of KnB in the latter half of the series (where Togashi presumably took on the editor roll for it) do you think were directly influenced by Togashi?
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 03, 2014, 09:56:53 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure. In the interview, it seems the things about Togashi's works that influenced Fujimaki the most were his character interactions and sense of humor. Reading KnB, though, I'm not sure I quite find those elements that similar to YYH, Level E, or HXH, at least not more so than any other manga. However, Togashi is big on experimenting and trying out new ideas, as well as having interesting, diverse antagonists. So, perhaps all the different abilities of the Generation of Miracles and how they were distinct as antagonists/rivals (in their own ways) was partly influenced by that. As far as the final match with Rakuzan goes, it's all over the place nature might be attributed to Fujimaki wanting to cram in as many different things as possible to make the match more exciting, and maybe that was partly a result of Togashi's encouragement to go all out on all sorts of different ideas, especially since it was the final match and such.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 10:02:09 PM
Yeah, I feel that some of those worse qualities are eerily similar to some of my faults with HXH. However, some of the more interesting elements of this manga could also have been influenced by Togashi as well, but truthfully I think that Togashi just OK'ed Fujimaki's manuscripts for the most part, and probably told him to just fix up some parts that he didn't like, without actually telling him how to fix them, so it's still mostly Fujimaki's story, of course.

Still, it was fascinating to find out that he was an editor for KnB. Like Desen said, it may have helped give the manga some spark to keep it worth reading, even in the final game when the general quality was declining.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 05, 2014, 11:08:48 AM
And, what d'ya know; Hunter X Hunter is going on hiatus AGAIN (http://www.fandompost.com/2014/09/05/yoshihiro-togashi-extends-hunter-x-hunter-manga-hiatus/). after the next chapter, according to WSJ's most recent announcement. This time we only got 10 chapters. It looks like Togashi has come down with another case of "I'm too lazy to write-itis."

Oh well, I'm not too bummed out since the DC arc hardly had anytime to get underway, so I'm not invested enough in this story to care that he's taking yet another break from it.

Still  I'd rather that he just end the manga once this new arc is finished. It's annoying seeing him drag out the story like this, and at this point I'd rather see him work on on something new. Personally, I think he'd be much more well-suited to writing short but captivating stories than he currently is at writing long story-arcs.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 05, 2014, 11:28:38 AM
That's the announcement I was talking about yesterday in the Currently Running Manga thread. It doesn't mean that the series is officially on a long hiatus. What they are saying is that the current hiatus that started two weeks ago is being extended at least another week, and they don't know if the series will return with a new chapter the week after. I'm expecting we will get chapter 350 sometime in the next few weeks, since it makes sense for Togashi to put out ten chapters to allow for a new volume to be printed, but afterwards I fully expect that we will get another long, indefinite hiatus.

It's a shame, since all that's happened so far in the DC arc is set-up. If Togashi only puts out ten or so chapters a year, then the DC arc could drag for maybe ten years like the Chimera Ant arc until it's finally completed. It might as well shift to Jump Square and be a monthly series, in that case. If Togashi ever finishes HXH, instead of another long project, he should just make short, one or two volume-ish series. That's what Toriyama did after he ended Dragon Ball, after all.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on September 05, 2014, 12:33:22 PM
Ten chapters? I think I guessed that somewhere.

Not surprised. Expect a volume every two years or so. HxH is never ending.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on April 01, 2015, 12:25:13 AM
Because I'm bored and can't go to sleep or get anymore work done tonight, I'm going to rank every story that Togashi has ever written through his three main works from best to worst. Of course all of these rankings are based on the manga versions of these series. Furthermore, all rankings are relative to his own body of work (otherwise a lot would be top tier).

S-Class:
1. Chapter Black (YYH)
2. York New City (HXH)
3. Dark Tournament (YYH)

A-Class:
4. Color Rangers (LVE)- Why I want him to do a comedy
5. From the Darkness (LVE)- Why I want him to do horror
6. An Alien on the Planet (LVE)- Why I want him to do sci-fi
7. Chimera Ant (HXH)- Flaws be damned, what it gets right, it gets REALLY right
8. Rescue Yukina (YYH)
9. Zoldyck (HXH)- Underrated as hell, IMO
10. Hunter Exams (HXH)
11. Yu Yu Hakusho Tales: Two Shot (YYH)

B-Class:
12. Spirit Yusuke (YYH)
13. Heaven's Arena (HXH)
14. Boy Meets Girl (LVE)
15. Genkai's Trials (YYH)
16. Field of Dreams (LVE)
17. Chairman Election (HXH)
18. Full Moon/Honeymoon (LVE)
19. Hunter X Hunter Phantom Rogue Special (HXH)

C-Class:
20. You're My Darling (LVE)- Interesting concept, but awkward execution
21. Greed Island (HXH)- Mediocre with a couple of highlights
22. Three Artifacts (YYH)

D-Class:
23. Epilogue Chapters (YYH)- Bizarre, but rather amusing
24. Saint Beasts (YYH)

Black Black Club's Evil Reading List:
25. Three Kings (YYH)
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on April 01, 2015, 12:43:48 AM
I want him to do a romantic comedy like Urusei Yatsura. I think it would be legitimately funny and very creative.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on April 01, 2015, 01:33:37 AM
Cool list and idea! I'll give it a go:

S-Class

1. Chapter Black (YYH)
2. Dark Tournament (YYH)
3. York New City (HXH)
4. Chimera Ant (HXH)

A-Class

5. Hunter Exams (HXH)
6. Heavens Arena (HXH)
7. Zoldyck Family (HXH)
8. From the Darkness (LE)

B-Class

9. Chairman Election (HXH)
10. Genkai's Trials (YYH)
11. Rescue Yukina (YYH)
12. An Alien on the Planet (LE)
13. Spirit Yusuke (YYH)
14. Full Moon (LE)
15. Yu Yu Hakusho Tales: Two Shot (YYH)
16. Hunter X Hunter Phantom Rouge Special (HXH)

C-Class

17. Color Rangers (LE)
18. You're My Darling (LE)
19. Greed Island (HXH)

D-Class

20. Boy Meets Girl (LE)
21. Field of Dreams (LE)
22. Saint Beasts (YYH)
23. Three Artifacts (YYH)

Black Book Club's Evil Reading List:

24. Three Kings (YYH)
25. Epilogue Chapters (YYH)
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on April 01, 2015, 01:48:28 AM
Nice list. Though it's apparent that my re-reading of Level E over five times has given me a much greater appreciation of it than just about anyone on the planet. :P

Quote from: Cartoon X on April 01, 2015, 01:33:37 AM16. Hunter X Hunter Phantom Rouge Special (YYH)

Since when did HXH crossover with YYH? :sly:
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on April 01, 2015, 01:55:00 AM
I much prefer LE in anime form, tbh.  :P
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on April 01, 2015, 02:01:17 AM
I like both versions. That said, something about Togashi's flat-out bizarre style of story-telling when he's allowed to go all-out without any constraints to logic just strangely appeals to me. Also, I realized that calling Level E a comedy manga is pretty inaccurate since only 3 out of the 7 stories are comedy-centric. The rest are just really weird but (to me) oddly engaging sci-fi short stories.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on August 17, 2017, 10:33:59 AM
Togashi and Hachi Mizuno are creating a new two-chapter manga called Akuten Wars. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.cc/news/2017-08-17/hunter-x-hunter-yoshihiro-togashi-writes-2-chapter-manga/.120210)

He finally got someone else to draw.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 17, 2017, 11:30:32 AM
Interesting. I'll definitely be checking this out.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 28, 2018, 01:09:34 PM
I was thinking of posting this in the HXH thread, but since it does technically deal somewhat with other Togashi works, I decided to link to it here, instead: https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/8m157x/togashis_interview_translated_by_veraciouscake/

Among other things, Togashi himself admits that his story has gone on for longer than it probably should, but that he kept writing because there were more ideas that came to him that he wanted to explore and he enjoyed doing so. This makes me happy to hear since it shows that Togashi is down to earth enough to criticize some of his own decisions, yet that he only writes what he wants and when he's feeling passionate enough about it which I believe comes through in his work. Whereas so many other manga can lose their heart when their creators clearly lose passion for the material and treat it more like a job than a personal expression of their feelings (something that plagues a lot of long running shonen series). But his vow to eventually give the series a proper ending is rather reassuring.
Title: Re: Yoshihiro Togashi
Post by: Daikun on May 24, 2022, 06:23:35 PM
Togashi has joined Twitter. (https://twitter.com/Un4v5s8bgsVk9Xp)

HXH is finally returning from its hiatus!