Or for now, RIP Dwayne McDuffie.
I'm going to marathon some of his best JL episodes in a few, but for now let's talk about him and the rest of the series.
This totally came out of nowhere. Like, WTF was literally the first thing that came to my head when I heard this.
We lost yet another important member of the DCAU today. Sad day. :(
We're losing a lot of them lately, aren't we?
I mentioned that at another board as well as the possibility of Bruce, Paul, or Kevin being next, and that terrifies me.
Then another member mentioned the possibility of Stan Lee passing on, and that got me thinking even more. Then Demi came up (hey, we're both fans :P). And then I started thinking about what if one of the members of Maiden or Mike Patton or someone passed on in the near future. I don't know if I'll be ready. I'm still shaking over the loss of Gary Moore.
That's going off the mark, but we're losing a lot of good ones lately, the people responsible for the DCAU in particular. And yeah, I did not see that coming five miles away.
He was responsible for a lot of great stuff and helping make one of the best animated shows ever. This is a real shame to lose someone like that so early.
Here's hoping that at least his work will live on. We all know it deserves to.
Yep.
Watching the end of the Cadmus saga now, and I might watch "A Better World" afterwords. I forget if he wrote that or not, but it seems appropriate.
Wait, WHAT?!
*checks Toonzone*
God, that's awful. RIP McDuffie. Thanks for Static Shock and putting JL on the right track.
It's gonna make reviewing All-Star Superman awkward as hell though.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on February 22, 2011, 08:08:29 PM
Wait, WHAT?!
*checks Toonzone*
God, that's awful. RIP McDuffie. Thanks for Static Shock and putting JL on the right track.
It's gonna make reviewing All-Star Superman awkward as hell though.
Hmmm, and he worked on Static Shock too? What a shame.
He created Static Shock, actually. It's a real loss.
I feel so bad. I had really meant to post much earlier about McDuffie's tragic passing a few days earlier, but I didn't get around to coming to this thread and forgot to post. Anyways, the man was responsible for some truly great animated material. He wrote some great Justice League episodes, and even though I wasn't a fan of JLU I really enjoyed the Cadmus arc and I really can respect his work. Its always sad to see such a talented figure involved with the animation industry pass away, but its always good to remember their greatness through the amazing works that they have played a huge part in making, and McDuffie is truly deserving of praise for his works.
Unfortunately, I don't know much about Mr. Dwayne McDuffie work outside the DCAU, but Justice League/Unlimited (I consider them both one show) is my favorite cartoon of all time.......ever.
So, I'm going to have to wait a while before I can get to watching STAS since I don't have any of the DVD sets for it. On the other hand, my friend is letting me borrow his JL DVDs, so I'll be re-watching that first and will end up going back to STAS later on whenever I can get the DVD sets for that. This time I'll be going into JLU with a much more fresh perspective, so maybe I'll enjoy it more this time.
I actually did watch a good chunk of season 4 and at least liked the Cadmus-related stuff well enough, but I'll see if I can appreciate the rest of what JLU has to offer which I couldn't really get into before.
I've been re-watching a bunch of JL episodes recently. Man, there are a lot of dirty little jokes in the writing here and there that I completely missed back when I first watched the series, and the funny thing was that I was old enough to understand them, but for some reason I missed a lot of them back then).
Anyways, while some of you guys have expressed a certain distaste for earlier episodes in the series, I think that taking them for what they are shows that they have aged fairly well on the whole. The first season certainly doesn't stand up to later seasons, but at the same time its still entertaining and contains some really solid stories in the mix. Though, I don't really feel like every story deserved to be a multi-parter. Stuff like "In Blackest Night" and "Metamorphosis" really could have easily been handled in 1 episode each, and having both of those be 2-parters just like the rest made them feel way too dragged out. That, and I wasn't too keen on either of those stories, anyways.
Season 2 seems to have some more consistently good episodes, and even though it was before the series made the jump to JLU, most of the stories this time feel big enough to justify 2-parters as opposed to season 1 which took some very basic stories and just over-glorified them by making them go on longer than they really needed to. I think that one of my favorite episodes from that season is Wild Cards, mainly because it somehow manages to combine the big scope and feel of JL with a lot of touches and an overall tone that is very reminiscent of BTAS, and of course with The Joker being the main villain of that episode (I'm counting the 2-parter as one episode since nearly ever single episode from the first 2 seasons was a 2-parter), it really helped to strengthen that BTAS vibe going on throughout.
So one of our local Blockbusters is closing down. So far, the sales aren't too great and while there are a couple of movies I want, there's nothing I really need at these prices. I'll come back in a week or too to see if anything good is still there when the prices get better.
I did find one major exception, though. SubZero for $3.50. Totally hit that up. About time, too.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 23, 2011, 06:12:19 PM
He created Static Shock, actually. It's a real loss.
I just found that out yesterday. I also put on hold the one Static comic my library had.
Now if only those dumbasses could get DC animated movies that are after Wonder Woman.
Looks like this is a thread for general DC animated universe discussion. I decided I'd put them all in order.
1. Batman: The Animated Series
2. Justice League
3. Superman: The Animated Series
4. Bayman Beyond
Is Static Shock in the continuity? I never really liked it since I was a kid, and think it even created some confusion for the continuity as a whole (Robin was with the Teen Titans in this universe?). So for multiple reasons I just think it should've been kept separate.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on January 10, 2013, 03:25:38 PM
Is Static Shock in the continuity? I never really liked it since I was a kid, and think it even created some confusion for the continuity as a whole (Robin was with the Teen Titans in this universe?). So for multiple reasons I just think it should've been kept separate.
Initially, the other DC heroes were just fictional characters on
Static Shock (in season 1's "They're Playing Our Song" Virgil comments that "Even Superman had a day job"), but starting with season 2's "The Big Leagues", SS became part of the DCAU, with the numerous guest appearances by other DC superheroes and the appearance of an adult Static in the JLU episode "Time, Warped".
As for the "Robin's with the Titans" line, this question gets asked a lot, but here's the answer: WB originally planned for there be a Static/Teen Titans crossover episode, but the episode, had it been made, would've aired before the premiere of the TT show on Cartoon Network. WB felt that this might prove too confusing for viewers (not to mention they didn't want the Titans characters to make their TV debut before the premiere of their own show), so they scrapped the idea and went with a Justice League crossover instead ("A League of Their Own").
For continuity sticklers who like everything to be connected, it can be conjectured that there is a Teen Titans team in the SS/DCAU universe, but that team may not necessarily be the same Titans from the CN show.
Static Shock and Zeta are apparently in continuity.
Quote from: Silverstar on January 10, 2013, 04:36:50 PM
Quote from: talonmalon333 on January 10, 2013, 03:25:38 PM
Is Static Shock in the continuity? I never really liked it since I was a kid, and think it even created some confusion for the continuity as a whole (Robin was with the Teen Titans in this universe?). So for multiple reasons I just think it should've been kept separate.
Initially, the other DC heroes were just fictional characters on Static Shock (in season 1's "They're Playing Our Song" Virgil comments that "Even Superman had a day job"), but starting with season 2's "The Big Leagues", SS became part of the DCAU, with the numerous guest appearances by other DC superheroes and the appearance of an adult Static in the JLU episode "Time, Warped".
As for the "Robin's with the Titans" line, this question gets asked a lot, but here's the answer: WB originally planned for there be a Static/Teen Titans crossover episode, but the episode, had it been made, would've aired before the premiere of the TT show on Cartoon Network. WB felt that this might prove too confusing for viewers (not to mention they didn't want the Titans characters to make their TV debut before the premiere of their own show), so they scrapped the idea and went with a Justice League crossover instead ("A League of Their Own").
For continuity sticklers who like everything to be connected, it can be conjectured that there is a Teen Titans team in the SS/DCAU universe, but that team may not necessarily be the same Titans from the CN show.
I had actually forgotten that Static appears in Justice League. That idea that they were initially fictional makes it all even weirder. Plus, even if there is a TT in the DCAU that isn't the same as the group in the CN show, it's still confusing. I mean, in BTAS, we can trace basically every step made by Dick Grayson and Tim Drake. I just don't see how there would ever be time for him to become a Titan.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on January 10, 2013, 07:38:01 PM
Static Shock and Zeta are apparently in continuity.
The Zeta show makes sense, I think. He's just a Batman Beyond character getting his own spin-off show to do his own thing. So it doesn't get in the way of anything and it follows its own story that happens to take place in the DCAU.
So are there any future plans for the DCAU? If not, what do you guys think they should do? Shame that some of the other Justice League members didn't get their own animated shows.
It was done when season 3 of JLU wrapped. I don't see them starting back up anytime soon, though I'm not much of a fan of most of the movies they release.
Well, you can get technical and consider the Arkham Asylum games to be continuations of B:TAS, I guess. Otherwise, sad to say, but the DCAU is done for.
I want to be bull-headed and say that Paul Dini's run on Detective Comics and Gotham City Sirens can be shoved sideways into the DCAU timeline.
QuoteI had actually forgotten that Static appears in Justice League. That idea that they were initially fictional makes it all even weirder. Plus, even if there is a TT in the DCAU that isn't the same as the group in the CN show, it's still confusing. I mean, in BTAS, we can trace basically every step made by Dick Grayson and Tim Drake. I just don't see how there would ever be time for him to become a Titan.
To me, there's no way that
Teen Titans: TAS could ever be canon with the DCAU. The TT universe contradicts the DCAU too much for it to be a part of it. If TT were canon, and if the hardcore fans are correct in assuming that TT's Robin was indeed Dick Grayson, then that would mean that Dick quit being Batman's sidekick, moved to Jump City to strike out on his own and became a Teen Titan for 2 to 4 years, and then
went back to Gotham City and being Bruce's sidekick before Tim Drake entered the picture in
The New Batman Adventures. This would also suggest that TT occurred
before TNBA, chronologically speaking, which makes even less sense.
TT being DCAU would also beg some questions; such as what was the Justice League doing while Trigon the Terrible was taking over the freaking planet? And why was Gizmo the first person that the Titans come to for help when Cyborg contracted a computer virus when it would have made more sense for them to go to Bruce or Ray Palmer (The Atom) or Star Labs?
I don't want to upset any fans who want TT: TAS to be part of the DCAU. I'm just saying that for me persoanlly, it doesn't work. Never did. Never will.
We really don't know much of what happened with Batman and Robin's relationship between Bruce's adoption of Dick and Dick nearing his college graduation, when you think about it, and TT's Robin is obviously a little younger than this one. Even then, it still doesn't add up to become part of DCAU canon.
There really isn't enough evidence to say Teen Titans could ever be in the DCAU. The only thing to go on is the Static Shock quote, and the fact that Speedy makes an appearance in JL with his TT design and voice actor. But both of those can be explained without saying he's the same character from the TT show. In the end, it's just impossible to fit it in. For one, we do know that TT Robin is Dick Grayson (at one point there's a flashback to his past, and you see a clear shot of the circus his family worked in, and later on he gets a doppelganger with the name Dick Grayson spelled backwards). And as Goldstar and I said, you can follow every step he makes, and there's no room for him to go to Jump City and put together his own team and all that.
Quote from: Avaitor on January 11, 2013, 11:02:18 AM
We really don't know much of what happened with Batman and Robin's relationship between Bruce's adoption of Dick and Dick nearing his college graduation, when you think about it, and TT's Robin is obviously a little younger than this one. Even then, it still doesn't add up to become part of DCAU canon.
Dick is at least 16, hence the motorcycle riding. The Japanime look just makes him look younger. I figured this out in the episode where he gets injured while fighting on said motorcycle and then the Robin from another dimension shows us what Robin would look like if he didn't have the anime look, which looked like an actual 16 year old.
Robin in Teen Titans is heavily implied to have already gotten done working alongside Batman. In the origin episode, he takes down a criminal and they start to say "Hey, aren't you supposed to be working with-" which obviously is referring to Batman. But Robin cuts him off saying "Just moved here, and now I work alone" since for whatever reason they decided to never mention Batman.
I'd say Teen Titans Robin's past is based on Batman TAS Robin as references to Batman are frequently done in a BTAS style. But it has its own differences (Robin being younger, going off to work on his own instead of quitting being Robin, etc).
Personally, I've always thought of Teen Titans: TAS taking place in it's own separate universe that's not connected to any other DC animated series. TT was no more canon to the DCAU than Krypto the Superdog was, but that's just me.
I tend to think that TT's Robin is simply "Robin", a stand-alone composite of all the various Robins with no actual civilian identity. There are indeed some Easter eggs which allude to him being Dick Grayson, but he also shares some of Tim Drake's trademarks, such as the spiky hair, the steel-toed boots and the bo staff. (And some could argue that his alter ego of Red X is a subtle nod to Jason Todd, aka Red Hood). To me it really doesn't matter who TT Robin is since we never see him out of costume, he's never called by any other name and seems to lead no civilian life, and also since TT isn't connected to any other DC show.
Quote from: talonmalon333Robin in Teen Titans is heavily implied to have already gotten done working alongside Batman. In the origin episode, he takes down a criminal and they start to say "Hey, aren't you supposed to be working with-" which obviously is referring to Batman. But Robin cuts him off saying "Just moved here, and now I work alone" since for whatever reason they decided to never mention Batman.
The producers never wanted to implicitly include Batman or any of the adult heroes into
Teen Titans because it was supposed to be the kids' show, the opportunity for Robin and the other teen heroes to shine on their own. As soon as you bring Batman into the picture, Robin is reduced to just being a sidekick again. Batman and Robin can never and will never be equals. No matter how formidable Robin is or will ever get, he'll always just be Scottie Pippen to Batman's Michael Jordan.
I personally thought the we should have at least gotten fleeting glimpses of the adult capes on TT, but I can't understand why the producers chose not to. It didn't really matter much since the core team on the show was the 80's New Teen Titans rather than the Founding Five, which was another nitpick I had with TT.
Time to jump in.
I had a problem with the Americanized Anime of the Teen Titans series. I'm sorry, but it didn't fit.
Major differences between the series and the 80's comic it was based on:
1. Starfire. What do you suppose is the BIG difference? On TV, she's more naive than she was presented in the books. To the producers' credit, they took their time developing the Robin-Starfire relationship.
2. In the comics, Robin & Beast Boy were actually adults. Some of you might recall that Dick was in college at the start of the 70's, and Gar---by 1980 using the name Changeling---had become a movie stuntman despite his green skin (which DC has retconned out, FWIW, in the current books). At the most, they'd have to be retconned to about 19 each.
3. It was Raven who put the team together in the books to combat Trigon. I don't recall seeing an "origin" episode on TV, and with Kid Flash MIA for most of the TV show, well........!
Given how popular the Teen Titans GO! book was, it doesn't surprise me it'd be adapted into a TV show. That's how Young Justice got started. BTW, speaking of YJ, y'think maybe they could use a little more help, in the form of a certain pair of siblings who were misused in the YJ book under Peter David's direction, but could be treated right (as they were in 1977, that is)? (If you can't figure it out from the subtle clue I left, I'm embarassed for you guys. Those of you who know me from Toon Zone will likely get it.) So, when TTG begins its TV run, I think I may be passing.
Quote from: hobbyfanStarfire. What do you suppose is the BIG difference? On TV, she's more naive than she was presented in the books.
Not to mention less endowed and more modestly clad. But let's face it, there's no way that WB would've been able to get comics Star past the PTA.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.gawker.com%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fio9%2F2011%2F09%2Fstarfire2004.jpg&hash=cc4887de5a652fa64fe6bdf410a4616c7cf8d95a)
QuoteI had a problem with the Americanized Anime of the Teen Titans series. I'm sorry, but it didn't fit.
Yeah, the wannabe anime stuff is part of what turned me off from the show. (That and their decision to go with the 80's team rather than the Founding Five or some derivation thereof, kind of like what we got in season 1 of
Young Justice.) I have nothing against anime, but an American show trying so hard to imitate anime for no other reason than "kids think anime is kewl" doesn't sit right with me. I understand that the producers didn't want TT to just be "Justice League, Junior", but still...
I quite liked Starfire's naive personality. Very fitting for a teenage girl who's new to the planet.
Also, here's another thing that keeps TT from the DCAU: Flash is still a kid (and if I remember correctly, he's implied to be Wally West).
Quote from: talonmalon333 on January 13, 2013, 11:17:41 PM
I quite liked Starfire's naive personality. Very fitting for a teenage girl who's new to the planet.
You must have never been on TV.com then, 'cause most of the people there accused Starfire of being either cerebrally challenged or a blithering idiot. Myself, while I felt the writers carried the "foreign exchange student" shtick too far at times, I didn't mind it overall. Starfire was one of the few things about TT that I really liked.
@Silverstar: You're spot on about the less endowed Starfire. My best guess is that in the comics, she debuted at the approximate Earth age of somewhere between 17-19. On TV, she was presented as if she was anywhere from 14-16. As I noted, that allowed the producers to take their time developing the inevitable romance with Robin, which, one must assume, will carry over into the new show. Come to think of it, that may be the only reason for me to check out TTG, to see if there is any carryover.
Quote from: Silverstar on January 14, 2013, 08:05:12 AM
Quote from: talonmalon333 on January 13, 2013, 11:17:41 PM
I quite liked Starfire's naive personality. Very fitting for a teenage girl who's new to the planet.
You must have never been on TV.com then, 'cause most of the people there accused Starfire of being either cerebrally challenged or a blithering idiot. Myself, while I felt the writers carried the "foreign exchange student" shtick too far at times, I didn't mind it overall. Starfire was one of the few things about TT that I really liked.
I used to visit TV.com and was in this discussion probably quite a few times. I feel like people just miss the idea, really. They executed it quite well and I also think she has a good voice actress.
Hmmm, sounds like I need to learn more about, as you call it, Teen Titans Go.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on January 11, 2013, 12:20:03 AM
So are there any future plans for the DCAU? If not, what do you guys think they should do? Shame that some of the other Justice League members didn't get their own animated shows.
I'd like to go back to my earlier question. Even though it's nearly impossible now, would you guys like to see them create some more series' in the DCAU continuity? And if so, what should it be about?
Quote from: talonmalon333 on January 15, 2013, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: talonmalon333 on January 11, 2013, 12:20:03 AM
So are there any future plans for the DCAU? If not, what do you guys think they should do? Shame that some of the other Justice League members didn't get their own animated shows.
I'd like to go back to my earlier question. Even though it's nearly impossible now, would you guys like to see them create some more series' in the DCAU continuity? And if so, what should it be about?
Nah, not me personally. I wouldn't mind seeing some new DC animated shows of course, but they don't have to be in the DCAU continuity for me to enjoy them. It's over and I'm cool with that. The DCAU was OK when it was around, but I've moved on from it. I honestly think people tend to romanticize the DCAU a little too much. It was OK, but it wasn't this shining brand of gold. Like all shows, there were some things I liked about the DCAU and some things I didn't like. I personally only care if the show is good. Connected universes and the like have never been a major selling point for me.
The DCAU was cool and all, but I'm personally ready for some new and different takes on the DC characters and franchises. If I want to relive the DCAU, I can always watch my DVDs.
I think if the question came up when the DCAU was still alive, like 10 years ago or something, I would've definitely said yes. But now, I'd probably agree with you guys. I'm over it.
Outside of spin-offs centering on the secondary JL characters like the Question and Green Arrow, I don't think there's much else to explore in the DCAU.
Yeah, the DCAU was a good thing for what it was, but it ran its course and thankfully came to an end before it dragged itself through the mud for too long. I can look back on it and enjoy my favorite episodes of Batman: The Animated Series, Superman: The Animated Series, Batman Beyond, and Justice League/Unlimited (I never really cared for Static Shock, personally), and that's good enough for me.
As for the current DC animated offerings on Cartoon Network, I do enjoy what I've seen of Green Lantern: The Animated Series, though I wouldn't say its necessarily great or memorable. I did have some fun with the first season of Young Justice, but felt that it fell short of its potential and held out high hopes for the 2nd season to improve on it....and now I've kind of just been following the show without much enthusiasm, as it has personally disappointed me for the most part with what's been aired of the season 2 episodes so far.
Time schmine. I want DCAU to return. Preferably with new Static and Batman Beyond and a Flash show but of course this is all asking for too much.
So I've got a few questions that I'd be interested in getting some opinions on. These questions are:
1. What is your favorite DCAU show?
2. What's your favorite story in the DCAU?
3. What's your favorite scene in the entire DCAU?
I'm curious what you guys think. But I'll start with my own answers.
1. Right now I'm thinking of making this one a tie between Batman, and Justice League.
2. Mask of the Phantasm
3. There is so much to choose from here. But I have to choose, in Return of the Joker, the whole backstory sequence that tells of the Joker's death.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 23, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
1. What is your favorite DCAU show?
Batman: The Animated Series
Followed fairly closely by Batman Beyond and Justice League.
Quote2. What's your favorite story arc in the DCAU?
Now, you see, you should have just said story. By story "arc" I feel like you're implying that its a story that occurs over the course of a longer period of time than the usual ones, and encompasses multiple episodes. In this regard, JLU is really the only DCAU show that has any arcs to it, whatsoever. The other shows have their 2-parters and whatnot, but they never have exceptionally long stories. If I had to say my favorite story arc in the series, I would probably go with the Cadmus arc from JLU, but if I had to give you my favorite stories in general, then I'll just give you my top 10:
1. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (BTAS)
2. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (BB)
3. World's Finest (STAS)
4. Beware the Gray Ghost (BTAS)
5. Mad Love (TNBA)
6. Starcrossed (JL)
7. Heart of Ice (BTAS)
8. Robin's Reckoning (BTAS)
9. Epilogue (JLU)
10. Cadmus arc (JLU)
Quote3. What's your favorite scene in the entire DCAU?
Basically what Talon said. That's honestly my favorite scene in the entirety of the DCAU. Its just so dark yet so memorable.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 23, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
1. What is your favorite DCAU show?
Batman: TAS
Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 23, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
2. What's your favorite story arc in the DCAU?
Moviewise, Mask of the Phantasm. In terms of overlapping storylines on the show, the Cadmus arc and season 1 of Batman Beyond.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 23, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
3. What's your favorite scene in the entire DCAU?
Threeway tie, all endings; the ones to Mask of the Phantasm, "Legacy", and "Epilogue".
Also, when I said Justice League was tied as my overall favorite earlier, that included Unlimited. I typically just count them together as the same show, in the same sense that I would count Batman: The Animated Series and The New Batman Adventures as one show.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2013, 01:08:59 PM
Now, you see, you should have just said story. By story "arc" I feel like you're implying that its a story that occurs over the course of a longer period of time than the usual ones, and encompasses multiple episodes. In this regard, JLU is really the only DCAU show that has any arcs to it, whatsoever. The other shows have their 2-parters and whatnot, but they never have exceptionally long stories. If I had to say my favorite story arc in the series, I would probably go with the Cadmus arc from JLU, but if I had to give you my favorite stories in general, then I'll just give you my top 10:
With "story arc" I was thinking basically of stories that go beyond the typical 20 minute length. But you're probably right. I'll edit the question.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 23, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
So I've got a few questions that I'd be interested in getting some opinions on. These questions are:
1. What is your favorite DCAU show?
2. What's your favorite story in the DCAU?
3. What's your favorite scene in the entire DCAU?
I'm curious what you guys think. But I'll start with my own answers.
1. Right now I'm thinking of making this one a tie between Batman, and Justice League.
2. Mask of the Phantasm
3. There is so much to choose from here. But I have to choose, in Return of the Joker, the whole backstory sequence that tells of the Joker's death.
1. Batman TAS
2. Two-Face
3. Big bad Harvey's therapy session
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 23, 2013, 10:22:41 PM
Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 23, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
So I've got a few questions that I'd be interested in getting some opinions on. These questions are:
1. What is your favorite DCAU show?
2. What's your favorite story in the DCAU?
3. What's your favorite scene in the entire DCAU?
I'm curious what you guys think. But I'll start with my own answers.
1. Right now I'm thinking of making this one a tie between Batman, and Justice League.
2. Mask of the Phantasm
3. There is so much to choose from here. But I have to choose, in Return of the Joker, the whole backstory sequence that tells of the Joker's death.
1. Batman TAS
2. Two-Face
3. Big bad Harvey's therapy session
This is just a wild guess, but you wouldn't happen to be a big fan of Two-Face, would you?
Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 24, 2013, 12:20:30 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 23, 2013, 10:22:41 PM
Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 23, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
So I've got a few questions that I'd be interested in getting some opinions on. These questions are:
1. What is your favorite DCAU show?
2. What's your favorite story in the DCAU?
3. What's your favorite scene in the entire DCAU?
I'm curious what you guys think. But I'll start with my own answers.
1. Right now I'm thinking of making this one a tie between Batman, and Justice League.
2. Mask of the Phantasm
3. There is so much to choose from here. But I have to choose, in Return of the Joker, the whole backstory sequence that tells of the Joker's death.
1. Batman TAS
2. Two-Face
3. Big bad Harvey's therapy session
This is just a wild guess, but you wouldn't happen to be a big fan of Two-Face, would you?
Why yes, talon!
That episode convinced me that I like Two-Face more than The Joker, made Two-Face my favorite DC villain period and I consider it the greatest villain origin story ever.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 23, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
1. What is your favorite DCAU show?
Does
Super Best Friends Forever count as a show? If not,
Justice League (pre-JLU) and honorable mention to
Batman: the Brave and the Bold. The latter technically wasn't DCAU but I enjoyed it more than a lot of the DCAU shows.
Quote2. What's your favorite story in the DCAU?
As someone who's generally indifferent to action cartoons, individual action stories tend to run together to me. Individual scenes tend to stand out for me more, which brings me to...
Quote3. What's your favorite scene in the entire DCAU?
Superman's "World made of cardboard" speech in "Destroyer" and the subsequent ass-kicking that followed it. That, and the SBFF short where Supergirl and Batgirl try to convince Wonder Girl to sneak them a flight in WW's invisible jet. (Yeah, I'm cheating a little, but I like what I like.) :thumbup:
Quote from: Silverstar on March 24, 2013, 09:09:46 AM
Superman's "World made of cardboard" speech in "Destroyer" and the subsequent ass-kicking that followed it.
While still awesome, that was a bit of a case of Darkseid being caught off guard. As soon as he readjusted he swiftly took the upper hand in the fight once again.
He was caught off guard because Superman was beating his ass.
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 24, 2013, 03:55:08 PM
He was caught off guard because Superman was beating his ass.
Because he didn't know Superman had more than he was giving up to that point. If I remember correctly, Superman said in that scene that, before now, he was never able to unleash his full strength. Darkseid didn't know that.
But in spite of that, Darkseid was still going to win if Luthor didn't come to give Darkseid what he wanted.
Going back to the Teen Titans discussion from earlier, I think the funny thing is that the show could've easily fit into the continuity. I mean, the major thing that they would have to do is have Robin be Tim Drake. He already resembles him more, and I think Static Shock indicated that it was Tim Drake that was working with a group of "Titans". In fact, I remember them saying in Return of the Joker that, after they cured Tim Drake and Batman forbade Tim from working with him anymore, that Tim Drake went off to be a hero without Batman for a while, hoping to prove himself (could've been a solid timeframe for TT).
Just a thought, really.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 24, 2013, 07:21:47 PM
Going back to the Teen Titans discussion from earlier, I think the funny thing is that the show could've easily fit into the continuity. I mean, the major thing that they would have to do is have Robin be Tim Drake. He already resembles him more, and I think Static Shock indicated that it was Tim Drake that was working with a group of "Titans". In fact, I remember them saying in Return of the Joker that, after they cured Tim Drake and Batman forbade Tim from working with him anymore, that Tim Drake went off to be a hero without Batman for a while, hoping to prove himself (could've been a solid timeframe for TT).
Just a thought, really.
Except that a flashback in "Haunted" showed TT's Robin having a prior career in the circus and later reciting the oath, and Dick Grayson was the only Robin to do this, and in "How Long is Forever?", TT's Robin becomes Nightwing in the future, and Nightwing is Dick's new identity, not Tim's. There's also the matter of TT Robin's doppelganger Larry having the real name "Nos Yargckid", which is 'Dick Grayson' backwards. In order to make TT's Robin Tim Drake, those things would have to be removed.
For me, it's just easier to say that
Teen Titans' Robin is just a composite of all the comic Robins, and TT is a separate entity from the DCAU.
Quote from: Silverstar on March 24, 2013, 09:24:19 PM
Except that a flashback in "Haunted" showed TT's Robin having a prior career in the circus and later reciting the oath, and Dick Grayson was the only Robin to do this, and in "How Long is Forever?", TT's Robin becomes Nightwing in the future, and Nightwing is Dick's new identity, not Tim's. There's also the matter of TT Robin's doppelganger Larry having the real name "Nos Yargckid", which is 'Dick Grayson' backwards. In order to make TT's Robin Tim Drake, those things would have to be removed.
For me, it's just easier to say that Teen Titans' Robin is just a composite of all the comic Robins, and TT is a separate entity from the DCAU.
That's the thing though, most of those contradictions you mention could've easily just been something else. What I'm saying is that, if they wanted to put TT in the DCAU, there would be very little they'd have to change... Nightwing being in the future would be an issue though.
I agree that it's better to treat him as just a composite of various Robins. In fact, I personally even prefer leaving TT out of the canon. Though for me it's mostly the little things (for example, and for some reason, it would just peeve me if the Justice League was killed off along with everyone else except the Teen Titans, when Trigon took over the world).
TT's biggest problem was how empty the world felt. You rarely ever saw citizens, the heroes rarely interacted with anyone else, and there were no side-characters. I could have dealt with every other problem in the show but that one I can't seem to look past.
I actually like Teen Titans. It's a very hit or miss show, and I don't think it's on the level of the main DCAU shows (Batman, Superman, Beyond, and Justice League). But it contains some of my favorite superhero show story arcs in general.
To be fair, Teen Titans has a dedicated fan-base of its own, but I'm among the people who just couldn't get into the show. It had some great characterization and some admittedly good stories and writing, but it had a number of problems that kept me from liking the show. Desensitized mentioned how barren it felt, but I also felt that the team didn't really interact with each other in very interesting ways, and the show's style of humor just really got on my nerves. Characters like Beast Boy and Cyborg also felt incredibly wooden. With Beast Boy, he did become a somewhat interesting character when Tera came into the picture, but that whole plot-line didn't work out as well as it could've (I haven't watched the show in a long time, but I remember disliking the execution of how they had Tera join the team and betray them, or something along those lines), and overall that's kind of how I could sum up the whole show. It had some nice ideas, but none of it really worked very well to my liking.
They had to "dumb down" the Terra arc a bit, from what I hear. In the comic books, she was apparently a psychotic whore. :P
But I actually personally thought her arc was great, as well as Raven's arc in the fourth season. But other than that, most of the stories in the show were either "decent" or "meh".
From what I've heard, Tera in the comics was just plain fucked-up, with no redeeming qualities. In the show, they changed her into a tragic character who the audience could sympathize with, despite her actions. I haven't read the comics, but it sounds like I would prefer the Tera from the animated series, anyways. That said, her character arc was not really executed that well in the cartoon, IMO, so it was hard for me to really care that much about her even though I was clearly meant to. So, on that note, maybe I'd more enjoy reading the comics in which I'm actually meant to hate Tera.
The first episode of the two parter where Tera attacks The Titans is my favorite episode og the show.
Anyway, Tera betraying the Titans seemed so left field. There was like no build up of reasons for her to do so or anything. She runs off, Slade takes her in and then she comes back and eventually helps to try and kill them...then shows up again to kill them herself. I saw nothing to sympathize with.
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 25, 2013, 04:09:52 PM
The first episode of the two parter where Tera attacks The Titans is my favorite episode og the show.
Anyway, Tera betraying the Titans seemed so left field. There was like no build up of reasons for her to do so or anything. She runs off, Slade takes her in and then she comes back and eventually helps to try and kill them...then shows up again to kill them herself. I saw nothing to sympathize with.
She wasn't able to control her powers, and in her first episode, Slade offered to help her gain control. She didn't
want to betray them. When she returns to the team later on, now under Slade's control (where Raven is shown getting those bad premonitions), you can see her reluctance to betray them, and when she did, she herself tried to run away from the scene and went as far as to try to pull Beast Boy out of there. It's also clear that she still doesn't like Slade and even came close to turning on him when he was fighting Beast Boy.
I think it all comes together well. It's not until Beast Boy learns the truth and turns away from her that Terra gives herself entirely to Slade. In the end, Terra was just a kid who was easy to manipulate.
Also, as crazy as this might sound, I enjoyed it more than quite a few arcs in the DCAU continuity.
Still doesn't explain why she was willing to help KILL her friends at all. I don't see how she can be manipulated into doing that. And she wasn't a kid, she was around 16 years old.
Linkara just recently touched up on Terra in his Teen Titans retrospective. And yeah, she's a psycho killer.
qu'est-ce que c'est
I don't like Teen Titans much, but I gotta' admit that Slade is fuckin' awesome. Ron Perlman ftw!
I didn't appreciate Ron's work on the show enough. One of my favorite voiceovers.
Teen Titans was hit or miss for me. I didn't mind the more comedic take on the franchise; Justice League was still airing on Cartoon Network at the time of TT's premiere, and obviously the producers didn't want TT to just be Justice League, Jr., but a good portion of said humor, particularly the whole "let's mimic anime as much as humanly possible" with the chibis and the art style, didn't click with me. Plus, not all of the characters gelled with me; Robin, Starfire and Cyborg were the only ones I really liked, Beast Boy was made into too much of a 1-dimensional idiot and Raven's haughtiness (not to mention the insane amount of worship the character received from a lunatic fringe of her fanbase, who believed that she was either a goddess or the only good character on the show, neither of which were correct) just plain got on my nerves. Plus, like Spark said, the world of TT just felt kind of empty. I understand the producers didn't want the kids to be outshined by the adult heroes, but just removing them from the show altogether and having the Titans and all these other teen heroes just walking around without any adults or even casual mention of their mentors or parents or any kind of parental/guardian supervision just felt...off to me. Fleeting glimpses and the occasional casual mention of the adult capes or something would have worked better, even if they only appeared as silhouettes or legs, IMO.
I also didn't agree with the choosing of the New Teen Titans team from the 1980's; I'd have rather we had gotten a show starring the Founding Five, or some close approximation thereof; like, say replacing Garth with Kaldur (which I know couldn't have happened since TT preceded his creation) so they wouldn't be all Caucasians or swapping Roy with Artemis so Donna wouldn't be the only girl, something like that.
I'm probably one of the few people not hate ranting on the upcoming Teen Titans GO!, as I actually thought TT was best when it was just being a silly comedy. When TT tried to be edgy and/or serious it just came off as uneven to me. I still wish the makers of this show had gone with different characters other than the 80's team, but I'm personally not screaming for TT season 6 like a lot of other people on the internet.
Quote from: Foggle on March 25, 2013, 04:38:59 PM
I don't like Teen Titans much, but I gotta' admit that Slade is fuckin' awesome. Ron Perlman ftw!
Slade and Red X were the best things about TT, and the latter needed more episodes.
It was also hard to "guess" who he was since there were no supporting characters in the universe. That was my biggest issue with Red X, and it probably would have made him more interesting if it was possible for him to have an identity.
Quote from: Foggle on March 25, 2013, 04:38:59 PM
I don't like Teen Titans much, but I gotta' admit that Slade is fuckin' awesome. Ron Perlman ftw!
Slade is honestly up there as one of my favorite DC villains. Like, right alongside the Joker and Lex Luthor.
He and Robin were my favorite TT characters.
Quote from: Silverstar on March 25, 2013, 05:12:15 PM
Teen Titans was hit or miss for me. I didn't mind the more comedic take on the franchise; Justice League was still airing on Cartoon Network at the time of TT's premiere, and obviously the producers didn't want TT to just be Justice League, Jr., but a good portion of said humor, particularly the whole "let's mimic anime as much as human possible" with the chibis and the art style, didn't click with me. Plus, not all of the characters gelled with me; Robin, Starfire and Cyborg were the only ones I really liked, Beast Boy was made into too much of a 1-dimensional idiot and Raven's haughtiness (not to mention the insane amount of worship the character received from a lunatic fringe of her fanbase, who believed that she was either a goddess or the only good character on the show, neither of which were correct) just plain got on my nerves. Plus, like Spark said, the world of TT just felt kind of empty. I understand the producers didn't want the kids to be outshined by the adult heroes, but just removing them from the show altogether and having the Titans and all these other teen heroes just walking around without any adults or even casual mention of their mentors or parents or any kind of parental/guardian supervision just felt...off to me. Fleeting glimpses and the occasional casual mention of the adult capes or something would have worked better, even if they only appeared as silhouettes or legs, IMO.
I also didn't agree with the choosing of the New Teen Titans team from the 1980's; I'd have rather we had gotten a show starring the Founding Five, or some close approximation thereof; like, say replacing Garth with Kaldur (which I know couldn't have happened since TT preceded his creation) so they wouldn't be all Caucasians or swapping Roy with Artemis so Donna wouldn't be the only girl, something like that.
I'm probably one of the few people not hate ranting on the upcoming Teen Titans GO!, as I actually thought TT was best when it was just being a silly comedy. When TT tried to be edgy and/or serious it just came off as uneven to me. I still wish the makers of this show had gone with different characters other than the 80's team, but I'm personally not screaming for TT season 6 like a lot of other people on the internet.
I never read the comic books so I can't say about the TT generations or whatever, but I agree with your general opinion that it was a hit or miss show. When I look back on it, there were things about it that are kinda obnoxious.
Overall, I think it's a 7/10 show.
http://voicesfromkrypton.net/vfk-exclusive-dc-tooniverse-bruce-timm-steps-down-as-producer
:shit:
I think the last one of these movies I saw was Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths.
You can probably see why I stopped. But it is sad to see Timm gone now.
Bruce Timm is a great producer and it's too bad that he'll be stepping down, but the DCAU has been done since 2006 and I'm at least willing to give James Tucker (Mr. Timm's reported successor) a chance before I write off any post-Timm DC Animated projects as being inferior. A DC animated project isn't automatically bad just because it doesn't place in the Timmverse.
There are rumors that even though Timm is done with the DC movies, he may work on a new Justice League show that may or may not be related to the DCAU.
While I'm calling bs on this for now, I wouldn't be too surprised if it's true. They're STILL selling JLU toys now, and they still seem to be outselling Young Justice's figures, and for some reason, I can see one of the two, if not both, upcoming DC shows doing poorly. But this still sounds like some fanboys wishing for too much than a claim of truth.
Quote from: Avaitor on March 30, 2013, 12:14:38 AM
I think the last one of these movies I saw was Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths.
You can probably see why I stopped. But it is sad to see Timm gone now.
Hey, the movie didn't have an ounce of depth but it was a lot of fun. Now Superman/Doomsday is a movie with problems...
Superman/Doomsday was awful.
Crisis on Infinite Earths bored me more than anything else.
Out of all of these DC animated movies that came out past the DCAU, I enjoyed Batman: Year One and Justice League: The New Frontier. Neither of them were great, but I found them entertaining and easy to follow. None of the other features that I saw were really all that interesting, though I heard that the Wonder Woman DTV movie was good, but I haven't seen that one yet.
To anyone that saw them...
I heard Superman/Batman: Public Enemies and Apocalpyse, as well as Batman: Under the Red Hood, are good. Fact or fiction?
I thought Apocalypse sucked, personally. The characters weren't the least bit interesting, and I found myself not caring what was going on. Also, the title is completely misleading. I know that they titled it as a Batman and Superman team-up movie for marketing purposes, but they could have honestly come up with a more clever title than that. Its essentially a Supergirl origin story.
Under the Red Hood was pretty mediocre, overall, IMO. John DiMaggio's Joker was pretty fun, though.
I haven't seen Public Enemies, myself, yet.
I saw Superman/Batman Public Enemies. I thought it was pretty good myself.
I think my favorites among the DC animated movies were Wonder Woman and The New Frontier. I also really dug parts of Gotham Knights.
Quote from: Avaitor on April 01, 2013, 08:11:56 PM
I think my favorites among the DC animated movies were Wonder Woman and The New Frontier. I also really dug parts of Gotham Knights.
Oddly enough, I remember Bruce Timm saying in an interview that he wasn't too pleased with how The New Frontier turned out because it felt too rushed and he would have liked to make the movie into 2-parts. While I do agree that it moved along rather quickly, I actually enjoyed the brisk pace, and even as someone who hasn't read any of the comics, I was able to follow the entire story perfectly fine. Its probably my favorite of the DC animated features out of the ones that I've see, which isn't necessarily saying much, but I did find it to be genuinely good.
Quote from: Avaitor on April 01, 2013, 08:11:56 PM
I think my favorites among the DC animated movies were Wonder Woman and The New Frontier.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 01, 2013, 09:09:23 PM
Its probably my favorite of the DC animated features out of the ones that I've see, which isn't necessarily saying much, but I did find it to be genuinely good.
Aren't you guys forgetting something? ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mask_of_the_phantasm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_Beyond:_Return_of_the_Joker
Nah, those go without saying. But I wasn't particularly fond of Gothom Knight.
I already said in an earlier post that I was referring to the post-DCAU movies. I define the DCAU as all of the DC animated series and movies that take place in the same, well....Universe. The movies I referred to clearly don't take place in the same Universe as the DCAU, so I was referring to those separately.
I know that. Also:
Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 01, 2013, 09:14:57 PM
Nah, those go without saying.
We can all have a DC animated movie discussion with the knowledge that those two movies are the unanimous favorites.
Yeah, I meant from the new regime's movies, not the DCAU films.
Saying MOTP and ROTJ are the best is like saying that Episodes IV and V are the best parts of Star Wars. Totally obvious and unfair to the rest of the franchise.
Quote from: Avaitor on April 01, 2013, 10:05:10 PM
Saying MOTP and ROTJ are the best is like saying that Episodes IV and V are the best parts of Star Wars. Totally obvious and unfair to the rest of the franchise.
I agree with this, but I have met some people who actually like Episode VI more than IV and V. Don't fully know why though.
I'm totally down with James Tucker being Bruce Timm's successor in the overseeing of DC animated films and television shows. The two have worked together for a number of years on DC projects, so they're probably on a similar mindset when it comes to bringing these characters to the silver screen. Plus, Tucker was the man behind Batman: The Brave and the Bold, which I loved to death.
I have yet to see Batman Year One. COIE, Wonder Woman and New Frontier are my favorites. I have yet to see anything else besides Doomsday though.
I just thought I'd add that I enjoyed Under The Red Hood for making Jason Todd's return sensical and Bruce Greenwood was a great Batman.
It could have been longer and had Tim Drake, though.
Aside from the DCAU stuff, I've seen Superman: Doomsday, Justice League: New Frontier, and Wonder Woman. I like Wonder Woman the best of them, but the other two aren't bad.
Personally, I thought Doomsday was pretty bad. I liked New Frontier, though. I still have yet to see that Wonder Woman movie.
Since Man of Steel is out, I thought I'd ask which of the DCAU's two main Supes actors do you prefer, Tim Daly or George Newbern?
I like them, personally. I'd say that Daly is better at keeping his Superman in check, while Newbern is able to have fun with the character a little more, and elicited rage in a stronger tone. It helps that the JL/JLU take on Superman had him be both a little sillier and fiercer, but I generally liked them both.
Who's Newbern?
I liked them both about the same really. They both had some pretty good performances as Superman that are some of my favorite from the character.
I honestly couldn't tell the difference between them.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 14, 2013, 08:29:43 PM
Who's Newbern?
George Newbern, the guy who replaced Tim Daly for JL and JLU. He's also the voice of Sephiroth.
Both voices are quite good. But in the end, Newbern is the voice I immediately associate with Superman overall.
Quote from: Rynnec on June 14, 2013, 09:08:34 PM
I honestly couldn't tell the difference between them.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 14, 2013, 08:29:43 PM
Who's Newbern?
George Newbern, the guy who replaced Tim Daly for JL and JLU. He's also the voice of Sephiroth.
Shit, I thought they were the same guy and y'all were just referring to YJ Superman
Daly & Newbern rate about equal IMPO as Superman.
As far as DVD's go, I've seen GL: Emerald Knights (DTV), and Nathan Filion was a better Hal Jordan than Ryan Reynolds was in the live-action movie, and that's saying something. I've also seen DCU: New Frontier. Meh. There's a few I haven't seen, but I find myself more interested in collecting the pre-1992 DC toons. Don't ask me why.
I think New Frontier was just decent. It was entertaining, but it felt like there was too much going on and not enough time. Of the DC original animated movies, my favorite is Wonder Woman. I also liked Green Lantern: First Flight. And despite the fact that I know many here hated it, I actually kind of liked Superman: Doomsday, too, largely cause it cemented my belief on how Superman is one of the best villains ever.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on June 23, 2013, 03:59:09 PM
I think New Frontier was just decent. It was entertaining, but it felt like there was too much going on and not enough time.
I think I also recall Bruce Timm once saying in an interview that New Frontier should have been split into 2 films as there was too much condensing they had to do in adapting the source material into just a single 90-minute feature (actually, its even less than that).
I still enjoyed the movie, though, so perhaps I'll check out the original comic book at some point in time.
I had Superman-Doomsday, and that was a dog. A former neighbor made a copy for me, which I eventually dumped. Like, Doomsday wasn't even in half the picture.
>_< >_< >_< >_< >_< >_< >_< >_< >_< >_< >_< >_< :drool:
aka Flashpoint Paradox.
So it looks like Static Shock and The Zeta Project are getting releases from the Warner Archives.
Ten years ago, I would have been excited about Static. Nowadays, the show does just about nothing for me, though. Instead, I'm just waiting for them to announce more CN shows.
A belated RIP to Powers Boothe. I didn't comment on his passing earlier since I haven't seen Deadwood yet (I have the first 2 seasons waiting for me here, though), but I just found out that he voiced Grodd in Justice League. He was great there.
OMG, HE WAS GRODD? One of my top 5 favorite DCAU villains. Something about a super arrogant talking gorilla is just so funny.
Alan Burnett has retired. (http://www.cbr.com/alan-burnett-retires)
Good for him. He was a big part of the DCAU's success, and has had a great career. I hope he enjoys retirement.
#JLReunion (http://epicstream.com/news/Justice-League-Animated-Cast-Wants-A-Reunion-Movie)
As long as they get someone cool to write it like Dini, DeMatteis, or maybe give Morrison a shot at writing these movies, I'd be cool with this. But I'm weary of another Batman and Harley Quinn film.
Problem is, they really need Burnett back. Timm has proven too many times recently he can't handle story cohesion well by himself.