Kai is apparently ending at the end of the month with the end of the Cell saga. Thoughts?
As someone who did not really like the Buu saga in the anime, I can't really be upset at this. For all the problems I have with the Cell games overall, I do really like the ending. So I'm fine with it.
How about you Buu saga lovers or completionists? How do you feel about this news?
BULL! That's my thoughts on it. Buu saga was my favorite saga if only for how wacky it was and how it felt more like the earlier parts of the Dragon Ball Series. Also, I say this every time, but my dream of the new ending was crushed. I so wanted to see Uub ride the Nimbus animated.
The Buu saga is excellent in the manga. If the original DBZ anime had been more faithful to the manga's more old school Dragon Ball-esque Buu arc with its focus on humor and mysticism, I would be pissed that its not getting redone, like Daxdiv. But as it stands I didn't particularly enjoy the anime's handling of the Buu arc, so I'm more in agreement with Desensitized that the Cell Saga is the perfect place to end Kai.
I'm against Kai ending at Cell mostly because how it makes the final product feel incomplete. I'm actually curious to know how many episodes they would have used to wrap up the Buu arc, and what they would have kept. I'll admit, I'm probably more nostalgic for the anime at this point considering that I really got into DBZ after the Cell arc after a friend brought in a video of it during school hours, and I thought that Goku fighting in that other world tournament was a good way to start to get into the series. I was kind of right with that.
Though with Kai ending, I will say that I do wish that they come back and just redo the animation from the ground up next time rather than just trace over the old art. Maybe by then, we'll also have a new voice cast and see their take on the characters, in any language. I still find that fancy opening to be a major cocktease of what I was expecting Kai to be like, but instead we got traced art. I'm grateful that a new generation of kids were introduced to Dragon Ball thanks to this series, especially considering that last weekend it won some tournament that Nicktoons was hosting.
You know what else I've been meaning to ask to you guys? What's your stance on Kenji Yamamoto's score in Kai being replaced due to plagiarism? This thread (http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=12749) has more details and pays more attention to than I bothered to, but I do find it pretty odd that this went on for a long time. I mean, I know Japan is pretty lax with this shit, judging from how other video games and anime out there have music that is taken/sampled from other works. I find it funny that they black listed him and edited back the old score from the original anime into it. I was curious to see how that would play out, but due to the earthquake and tsunami, that plan was sort of axed. Considering that I heard the next FUNi DVD release for Kai is being delayed, I assume it has to do with the music.
I was a bit surprised to hear about the plagiarism, myself, and was somewhat skeptical because it seems weird that it would only be brought up after DBK was near the end of its run. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the DVD sets that currently have the original DBK music (well, maybe that's the wrong choice of words if it is in fact not original to DBK, but I don't even know if they proved that the music was plagiarized yet or not).
To be honest, I really liked the DBK music. It wasn't necessarily as impacting or memorable as the original DBZ soundtrack, but it still fit Dragon Ball really well, and it helped give DBK its own distinguishing features aside from just being shorter. If future DVD releases replace all of that music with the original music....well then lets just say that the original DBK DVDs will probably become fairly rare and valuable collectors' sets just for the fact that they carry that so-called plagiarized music. :humhumhum:
I also really liked the Kai (and original DBZ) music. It was one of the few things about the Americanized version I outright loathed was the stock boring rock music. It took away from the epic/mystic feel the show has.
Sorta like the One Piece rap outright killed the show over here. (Only the 4Kids version made the show awful instead of just slightly inferior)
Well, to be fair, just about every DBZ dub was massively inferior to the sub because of bad dialogue and inexperienced voice actors. Even a lot of the FUNi VAs have admitted, I believe, that DBZ was one of, if not, their first roles doing dubbed voices ever, and a lot of the VAs who are extremely fantastic VAs now were pretty bland or over-the-top sounding in the original FUNi dub. Putting nostalgia aside, I feel that the FUNi dub, as well as every other DBZ dub, suffered from a lot of problems. That's why the DBZK dub means so much to me, because it features most of the same VAs except this time they are actually really brilliant VAs and they have an accurate script to go by to boot. :)
Also, Frieza's dub voice in DBZK is absolutely PERFECT. Its the voice that I've always wanted to hear for Frieza in English.
But yeah, as for One Piece, 4Kids totally shat on the source material. But to be honest, to my admittance, I find it to be hilarious to watch when I see them butcher an important or emotional scene from the original version with incredibly out of place gags (seriously, though, they got pretty creative with how ridiculous they made some of their numerous changes).
Of course, One Piece is yet again another title that was rescued and done proper justice by FUNi's brilliant cast. If you haven't checked out the dub yet, I highly recommend watching at least a single episode in the English dub featuring the FUNimation voice actors. Its hands down one of the best dubs that they have ever done, and shows a lot of clear respect for the source material. They completely nail all of the humor as well as the more serious, emotional moments. Its all that I could ever ask for and more in a proper One Piece dub.
Yeah, I started watching the dub when they were airing it on CN. It was great. Until they dropped it.
It must say a lot that I sat through that awful 4Kids dub to watch the show, but I guess I'm one of the few. Most think the 4Kids version simply killed One Piece in America. Which is a shame because there's a good story in there underneath all the butchery.
Anyway, to stay on topic, yeah the original Funi dub was just not very good. But luckily they improved tons since then and now they get to voice on the improved version of the DBZ anime. So it's win-win, IMO.
Don't have Nicktoons, so I haven't been able to properly watch Kai. However, I've seen quite a few clips to marvel at how improved the VAs are since the original. This perfectly illustrates it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO6FbUJAV7I)
I heard that the Canadian version of Dragon Ball dub sucked as well. I will assume that everyone knows the story about how after FUNi decided to do things in-house, Canada did their own thing with the series by still using the original VAs like Scott McNeil & Terry Klassen, replacing the music I heard that was in the old Mega Man cartoon of all things, but still used the FUNi script for whatever reason. I also heard that the dubbing was bad in it, and that it was rushed. I've never seen an episode of it, but I always hear bad things, and for some reason this is grounds for a flame war to say that you prefer the Ocean dub voices over FUNi or vice versa.
I will also sing the praises that FUNi did the ultimate 180 as an anime distributor from going from "FUCK YOU! Were not listening to you!" to "We value your input and appreciate your continuing support. FUNimation loves you all."
The Ocean dub blows, yeah. Especially the theme songs. I don't know how they made it so bad, but it really is awful. I was watching both versions back in the day and was embarassed by how bad the Canadian version was. (Especially considering how great those VAs have been in other things)
Chris Ayres is easily the best english Frieza voice, though. No more nails on the chalkboard!
Anyone get a chance to see the original Dragon Ball yet? I'm just curious how uncut things got to be.
DBZ Kai is a godsend. Seriously; I've been watching some of the "original dub" on DVD lately for kicks, and man, is it
awful. The voice acting sucks, the writing is groan-inducing, and nothing flows at all. Truly an archaic production if there ever was one. You can really tell just how much of an amateur company FUNi was in their early days.
All things considered, DBZ was in dire need of a good re-dub, and thankfully, we're getting it here. Kai rocks. Vegeta is even more badass now than ever, and the new Frieza was just epic. It's just too bad that it's ending early, and now we've got that whole "infringing music" fiasco going on as well. Oh well; 'tis life, I suppose.
Quote from: Daxdiv on March 15, 2011, 02:09:36 AM
but still used the FUNi script for whatever reason.
Actually, it was the other way around. Even after FUNi cut ties with the Ocean group, they still used the original scripts from their writers. Guys like Terry Klassen and Ward Perry are still credited as the main writers for FUNi's dub, even after Ocean was cut out of the loop.
Makes me wonder to this day if things would have been any better, had FUNi used their own writers/scripts. As I said, they were a very amateur company back then, so it probably would have been just as bad. I guess if nothing else, we might have saved ourselves a couple of "Mondo Cool's", though. :humhumhum:
I had no clue that Kai is about to end, they are ending with the Cell saga and not the Buu saga and that it took them this long to end at this point.
I don't care for the Buu saga but I would have loved to see it get the Kai treatment. Either way, I think the Cell saga has the best ending.
Also, I thought I heard the manga ended after the Frieza saga. Did they continue after the show started?
Quote from: Kiddington on March 24, 2011, 05:43:33 PM
Quote from: Daxdiv on March 15, 2011, 02:09:36 AM
but still used the FUNi script for whatever reason.
Actually, it was the other way around. Even after FUNi cut ties with the Ocean group, they still used the original scripts from their writers. Guys like Terry Klassen and Ward Perry are still credited as the main writers for FUNi's dub, even after Ocean was cut out of the loop.
Makes me wonder to this day if things would have been any better, had FUNi used their own writers/scripts. As I said, they were a very amateur company back then, so it probably would have been just as bad. I guess if nothing else, we might have saved ourselves a couple of "Mondo Cool's", though. :humhumhum:
You know, I always did wonder why Terry Klassen's name was on the credits whenever I watched the show on Toonami. I just assumed that it was a different Terry Klassen. Since I actually learned that the Kenji Yamamoto that has been accused of plagiarized music, isn't the same Kenji Yamamoto that has worked on some of my favorite Nintendo songs. Which for me was the biggest relief of all time. Welp, I learned something new for this. Still doesn't change the fact that both the Ocean and the FUNi dub used the same scripts and that both of them were horrible as hell.
As for dubs of DragonBall, the only other one I can tolerate that isn't Kai is the original series where Goku was a kid. I'm kind of glad that their dub of the original DragonBall was pretty faithful to begin with. Of course, it helps that their redub of the series came in during a time where FUNi was pulling that 180 I mentioned earlier.
Yeah, the original Dragon Ball dub was pretty good. Oddly enough, Terry Klassen is actually credited as one of the writers for a good number of those early episodes that Ocean grabbed the rights to back in '96 or something... and yet, they don't suck. It's kinda funny how terrible of a writer he was for DBZ, but for the original Dragon Ball, he didn't do a bad job at all. No "Mondo Cool's", no "Balls are Inert", none of that cutsey shit he was messing around with in DBZ. It was a pretty faithful translation all around.
I haven't really watched DBZ Kai that much (I don't get Nicktoons) but I find it kind of strange they're not doing the Buu Saga. I have to admit, I enjoyed the Buu saga. I thought Majin Buu made a good villain (it was really the first time we saw a villain show a sense of remorse and second guessing some of the things he was doing) not to mention he was the only villain who actually succeeded in blowing up the Earth (unless you count Baby in GT...).
Maybe it's just nostalgia talking or I haven't heard it enough, but while I don't think Frieza's VA in Kai is bad, I can't help but miss his classic voice.
I think what most people's issue with the old dub voice is that Linda Young (which a great voice actress in other roles more suited to her) just doesn't suit Freeza's persona. While his character is childish in a sense, its more in the sense that he has an inner spoiled brat in him that's used to getting whatever he wants thanks to his physical superiority to other alien species. Linda Young certainly got that part down. That said, he is also quite intelligent on the outset, very much like a war general who is both played out as a strategist of sorts and also purposely talks in a gentleman like tone except for when he loses his temper. This is the part most people feel that Linda Young couldn't capture. In the old dub he just seemed childish and like a very generic villain all the time. To be fair his goals do make his a generic villain, but the way that he presents himself makes him feel a bit unique in and of itself. He also has a businessman sort of personality to him with how his trade his wiping entire planets extinct to sell them off to rich buyers from other alien species. Overall I just feel that Chris Ayres does a much better job of capturing his personality than Young does, but I suppose it depends more on which version of Freeza you prefer, the originally intended character or the new type of character that the dub invented. As someone who grew up with the dub myself, I still immediately came to prefer his original war-general/gentleman like personality as the type of character that he was originally intended to be.
Quote from: Eddy on July 05, 2011, 03:16:42 PM
Maybe it's just nostalgia talking or I haven't heard it enough, but while I don't think Frieza's VA in Kai is bad, I can't help but miss his classic voice.
:whuh:
Well, I suppose you wouldn't be the first. As for me personally, though, I can't stand his original dub voice. Linda Young is like the exact opposite of everything that Frieza is supposed to be. The voice is kinda chilling and creepy, I'll give you that... and they did fix it up pretty well on the remastered DVD sets (the orange bricks, as some so affectionately refer to them as)... but still, it just doesn't really work for me. Especially now, when comparing it side-by-side to Chris Ayres interpretation. He does a much,
much better job, IMO.
I watched an episode of the Cell saga yesterday on my newly regained Nicktoons Network. It was Picolo vs Android 17 or 18 or whatever his name. I was told to pay attention to this fight by a fan because I ignored it when I was a kid. Good to see Picolo not be completely useless.
Anyway, since they are going going to show more Cell episodes (I was somewhere on the Frieza saga on Fox) I am going to talk about Cell. I hate his first form. He's just a creepy pos. Imperfect Cell is a punkass who is the most cowardly main villain in the series. Do not care for him. I do like it when Tien of all people holds him off. Sucks that the music is changed in Kai because what's played when Tien Tribeams him like crazy is perfect. Will be watching that online. Just another case of the lesser characters not being completely useless. Then there's Perfect Cell. Definitely in a tie with Frieza for my favorite DBZ villain. He's not exactly evil because he basically wants to compete and show that he's the strongest in the universe. Cue in lots of great challenges. Cell's voice actor really helps make the character great. Best voice acting out of any of the DBZ villains imo. Can't wait to see him in Kai
Admittedly, I've been losing track of Kai. The music debacle, combined with the whole "skipping the Buu arc entirely" deal has really drained my interest in keeping up with the new episodes.
It's a shame, really. Things started out on such a promising note, too; the new soundtrack was fantastic, the re-dubbed voice acting superb, the action was much faster without some of that nasty filler dragging it down. I just... I don't know what happened. It's too bad.
I should try and get back into it at some point, though. We'll see.
I hate the Buu saga. It's just the music that's holding it back for me
Thank God for (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiEqVUD03Yc) Chris Sabat. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r97xXROf7k)
Oh man, I remember that game. That dub is still awful. :-X
Steve Blum of all people is actually listed in the credits as having voiced Goku. My reaction:
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmyfacewhen.com%2Fimages%2F114.jpg&hash=5e4dec45b7192e4df9b882d78bc6ff7d31b86f03)
Man Blum, you have come far from the days of doing a crappy dub for a video game to being a big name in VA. Man, I still prefer Sabat over this Vegeta, but I'm still partial to his Canadian VA.
Once again, thank you FUNi. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Iqg1U8mDjk)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myfacewhen.net%2Fuploads%2F279-krillin.jpg&hash=5ea7df5ca1b675a43f427c7b1b8637afe83485fc)
Even Krillin doesn't believe how bad they sound. Also; "Cockarot"... lol.
But then again, there was always something off about the dub we got. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uE-ygMB7KY)
The fact that a good 95% of those lines weren't edited for the comedic purposes of this video is pretty... well... :sweat:
You can't help but wonder just what exactly they were going for, all those years ago. The overt sexual undertones of FUNi's original scripts back then were truly something else.
They finally showed Broly on Nicktoons Network after lying about it for a week. I actually forgot how ridiculously strong he was. "Oops! Did I just blow up your planet?"
Caught the Broly movie today; first time in a couple of years I've seen it. Couple of notes; first off, I've always found the hard-rock BGM in these things to be horrendously distracting. I know DBZ was originally marketed as all OMG BADASS when FUNi was first toying with it back in the early days, but still; even with that considered, the music is just so painfully out of place. I know the Faulconer score, in so many words, indirectly inspired this soundtrack, but even that was done with a much more methodical and subdued approach (and isn't the kind of screamo, in-your-face bullshit like this is). These licensed tracks are just really terrible, IMO.
The dub actually holds up surprisingly well, though. I was honestly expecting that facet of the movie to be much, much worse, but all of the characters sound almost exactly like they do now in Kai (well, except for Gohan, obviously). The writing still stands to be a little corny, but that's just something we've naturally come to expect over the years.
...anyway, not a bad flick (besides the music), especially in direct comparison to some of the other DBZ movies (lookin' at you, Bio-Broly). Fusion Reborn was also on today as well; didn't stick around for that, as I was already burnt out after one. I did DVR it, though. I'll probably watch it tomorrow, if not this weekend, at the very latest.
I honestly don't mind the liscened soundtracks that some of the movies had. And I did like one or two of the songs in the Broly movie. The could've at least used something a little more emotional when the other Z fighters were giving their energy to Goku however.
I think movies 4 and 5 had the best use of the liscensed songs. (The scene where Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan against Cooler is particularly effective, IMO)
Quote from: Kiddington on September 16, 2011, 01:54:31 AM
Caught the Broly movie today; first time in a couple of years I've seen it. Couple of notes; first off, I've always found the hard-rock BGM in these things to be horrendously distracting. I know DBZ was originally marketed as all OMG BADASS when FUNi was first toying with it back in the early days, but still; even with that considered, the music is just so painfully out of place. I know the Faulconer score, in so many words, indirectly inspired this soundtrack, but even that was done with a much more methodical and subdued approach (and isn't the kind of screamo, in-your-face bullshit like this is). These licensed tracks are just really terrible, IMO.
The dub actually holds up surprisingly well, though. I was honestly expecting that facet of the movie to be much, much worse, but all of the characters sound almost exactly like they do now in Kai (well, except for Gohan, obviously). The writing still stands to be a little corny, but that's just something we've naturally come to expect over the years.
...anyway, not a bad flick (besides the music), especially in direct comparison to some of the other DBZ movies (lookin' at you, Bio-Broly). Fusion Reborn was also on today as well; didn't stick around for that, as I was already burnt out after one. I did DVR it, though. I'll probably watch it tomorrow, if not this weekend, at the very latest.
yeah, the music was distracting. I liked watching Broly kick ass for so long. It was also good to see them really team up on someone. I don't think Goku ever partnered with more than one other fighter in the show against an enemy. I also watched a little bit of Fusion reborn, which I've also haven't seen in years. It was just beautiful watching SS3 Goku in something I actually like. Didn't get to enjoy his presence in the Buu saga because I lost interest.
Quote from: Rynnec on September 16, 2011, 02:22:43 AM
I honestly don't mind the liscened soundtracks that some of the movies had. And I did like one or two of the songs in the Broly movie. The could've at least used something a little more emotional when the other Z fighters were giving their energy to Goku however.
I think movies 4 and 5 had the best use of the liscensed songs. (The scene where Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan against Cooler is particularly effective, IMO)
Cooler's Revenge is my favorite DBZ movie. If I ever get the DVD, I'm replaying Cooler flying through Goku's blast over and over again.
Dragonball Z Kai's greatest mistake was leaving this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpkeAQG6kQw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpkeAQG6kQw) The entire saga is almost unwatchable without it.
The reason that DBZ Kai doesn't have any of the music from the DBZ dub is because FUNimation wanted to stay faithful to the Japanese version this time and leave in the music that was already in the Japanese version of DBK. Of course, that was "before" that whole plagiarism shit came up, but either way they would have gotten a lot of flak from fans if they included any of the music that they used in the old DBZ dub. Most people actually hate that they changed the original musical score from the Japanese audio track and replaced it with synthesized music like that which didn't fit the tone of the series.
Besides, it wouldn't make sense to use the music from their old dub in Kai. If you want to here that music, then that's what the old dub is there for. Kai wasn't meant to be a copy and paste of the old dub, but FUNi's chance to actually do a DB anime the right way and without completely butchering the dialogue and voice acting like in the old dub.
But I want my Cell theme back. :cry:
Last week I realized that Goku has only killed one main villain in DBZ, Kid Buu. (which shows how lame that saga is.) Once I think about, I think that's the only person he has killed in the entire show, unless future Goku killing Frieza and his Dad counts.
What do you mean by Future Goku killing Frieza and his father? Future Trunks does that. Unless you're referring to some spin-off that I'm unaware of, Goku never managed to actually finish Frieza off and he never even met his father (mainly because Future Trunks killed him before Goku even arrived back on Earth).
At any rate, Goku did manage to kill a useless minion or 2 throughout DBZ (such as one of Bobbidy's lackeys, who's name I forget, for example), but yeah other than Kid Buu Goku never actually killed any of the main villains. To be fair he is supposed to be the good guy of the show so I guess it makes sense that he's not a killer. He did at least defeat Frieza and the severe damage that he caused to him delayed him from getting to Earth. He also did manage to severely weaken Vegeta in their initial fight so he was still primarily responsible for saving the world in the Saiyan arc.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 20, 2011, 10:32:48 PM
What do you mean by Future Goku killing Frieza and his father? Future Trunks does that. Unless you're referring to some spin-off that I'm unaware of, Goku never managed to actually finish Frieza off and he never even met his father (mainly because Future Trunks killed him before Goku even arrived back on Earth).
I think he meant the Goku from the universe that Future Trunks came from.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 20, 2011, 10:32:48 PM
What do you mean by Future Goku killing Frieza and his father? Future Trunks does that. Unless you're referring to some spin-off that I'm unaware of, Goku never managed to actually finish Frieza off and he never even met his father (mainly because Future Trunks killed him before Goku even arrived back on Earth).
At any rate, Goku did manage to kill a useless minion or 2 throughout DBZ (such as one of Bobbidy's lackeys, who's name I forget, for example), but yeah other than Kid Buu Goku never actually killed any of the main villains. To be fair he is supposed to be the good guy of the show so I guess it makes sense that he's not a killer. He did at least defeat Frieza and the severe damage that he caused to him delayed him from getting to Earth. He also did manage to severely weaken Vegeta in their initial fight so he was still primarily responsible for saving the world in the Saiyan arc.
You're thinking of Yakon (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Yakon), I believe. Yay for useless DBZ knowledge. :awesome:
...anyway, according to this (not sure how reliable it is; it is a wikia, after all), he is actually the very
first villain that Goku kills in DBZ. This only accounts for Z though, mind you; apparently, they aren't factoring in all of the random baddies he knocked off in the original Dragon Ball (which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since it
is the same character, but whatever).
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 20, 2011, 10:34:19 PM
I think he meant the Goku from the universe that Future Trunks came from.
Oh, I see. Well, that's part of an alternate/parallel timeline (as clearly stated by Future Trunks himself), so I don't really think it counts. I suppose one could argue that it does, though.
Quote from: Kiddington on September 20, 2011, 10:47:41 PM
You're thinking of Yakon (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Yakon), I believe. Yay for useless DBZ knowledge. :awesome:
Yeah, that's him alright. Heh, Now that I think about it I believe you're right. Well, I could have sworn that I saw Goku knock off a goon or 2 in some of the plethora of filler material that DBZ had, and maybe in some of the movies as well, which is what I may have been thinking of. But going strictly by canon material, yeah, Yakon is the first villain that he kills in DBZ.
Goku killed King Piccolo by firing himself like a cannon through his stomach.
It was also pretty bad ass.
Yeah, but that was Dragon Ball. Goku actually killed quite a few villains in DB. Going strictly by the parts of the manga that DBZ covered, Goku didn't really kill anyone until he fought Yakon in the Majin Buu arc.
I do agree that Goku killing King Piccolo was one of the most bad-ass moments in the entire series, though. We don't ever get epic villain death scenes like that anymore in modern shonen anime. Usually we just get some crap of the hero beating the villain and then making him change his ways or having the villain go out in some anticlimactic manner or some shit like that. I like how DB villains were at least true to their selves and stayed jack-asses right to the very end. It made them more bad-ass and made each villain demise truly epic and stand-out moments in the series. ;)
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 20, 2011, 11:24:11 PM
Yeah, but that was Dragon Ball. Goku actually killed quite a few villains in DB. Going strictly by the parts of the manga that DBZ covered, Goku didn't really kill anyone until he fought Yakon in the Majin Buu arc.
I do agree that Goku killing King Piccolo was one of the most bad-ass moments in the entire series, though. We don't ever get epic villain death scenes like that anymore in modern shonen anime. Usually we just get some crap of the hero beating the villain and then making him change his ways or having the villain go out in some anticlimactic manner or some shit like that. I like how DB villains were at least true to their selves and stayed jack-asses right to the very end. It made them more bad-ass and made each villain demise truly epic and stand-out moments in the series. ;)
Didn't this come up in Bakuman once? I think they said that a shonen hero can no longer
directly kill their enemy in Jump with extreme exceptions or some sort of outside interference. It could be possible that after DB and before he started on the DBZ half that the restriction was already in place, it's just that Toriyama was really smart about using it in the story.
Uh, anyway, this is sort of off topic. But yeah, Goku only really killed Yakon indirectly and Kid Buu at story's end.
Yeah, that was brought up in Bakuman and its not hard to believe that there are certain restrictions like that put up in modern shonen media but I don't think its like a downright written rule. There are still cases of villains dying in shonen manga (and even good guys in some cases as well, like with Hunter X Hunter and One Piece), but I think its something that editors may discourage mangaka to do too much. I don't mind it so much as long as the villains are so boringly 1-dimensional, but unfortunately many of them still seem to have the depth of cardboard for whatever reason, and if I can't sympathize with them then I'd prefer if they just got finished off and died with some shred of bad-ass dignity instead.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 20, 2011, 10:32:48 PM
What do you mean by Future Goku killing Frieza and his father? Future Trunks does that. Unless you're referring to some spin-off that I'm unaware of, Goku never managed to actually finish Frieza off and he never even met his father (mainly because Future Trunks killed him before Goku even arrived back on Earth).
At any rate, Goku did manage to kill a useless minion or 2 throughout DBZ (such as one of Bobbidy's lackeys, who's name I forget, for example), but yeah other than Kid Buu Goku never actually killed any of the main villains. To be fair he is supposed to be the good guy of the show so I guess it makes sense that he's not a killer. He did at least defeat Frieza and the severe damage that he caused to him delayed him from getting to Earth. He also did manage to severely weaken Vegeta in their initial fight so he was still primarily responsible for saving the world in the Saiyan arc.
I meant Goku from Trunk's future did. And I checked yesterday and Goku killed one of Babibi's (sp?) henchmen named Yanko or some shit. I don't care about their names, fuck the Buu saga.
And I'm not complaining about Goku's lack of kills. I commend DBZ for that. Another part of the show's creativity that probably will never get any credit.
Speaking of kills, I got fucking scared seeing how many people Goku killed in DB and GT. Rule 1 in the DB universe: if Goku's a kid, you're about to get fucked up.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 20, 2011, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 20, 2011, 10:34:19 PM
I think he meant the Goku from the universe that Future Trunks came from.
Oh, I see. Well, that's part of an alternate/parallel timeline (as clearly stated by Future Trunks himself), so I don't really think it counts. I suppose one could argue that it does, though.
Quote from: Kiddington on September 20, 2011, 10:47:41 PM
You're thinking of Yakon (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Yakon), I believe. Yay for useless DBZ knowledge. :awesome:
Yeah, that's him alright. Heh, Now that I think about it I believe you're right. Well, I could have sworn that I saw Goku knock off a goon or 2 in some of the plethora of filler material that DBZ had, and maybe in some of the movies as well, which is what I may have been thinking of. But going strictly by canon material, yeah, Yakon is the first villain that he kills in DBZ.
Actually, Goku kills no one in the filler. They even factor that in. In Vegeta's kill list, they name multiple people he killed in filler so here's both for comparison: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Vegeta's_victims (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Vegeta's_victims) http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Characters_Killed_by_Goku (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Characters_Killed_by_Goku)
Well, I was counting the movies as filler as well (both filler and the films are non-canon, so whatever, it counts as filler), and Goku certainly does kill people in the movies, like Turles and Lord Slug among various others.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 21, 2011, 01:14:59 PM
Well, I was counting the movies as filler as well (both filler and the films are non-canon, so whatever, it counts as filler), and Goku certainly does kill people in the movies, like Turles and Lord Slug among various others.
And Broly, Janemba, Turles henchmen and Dr. Wheelo and...God, Goku fucks people up in the films.
Anyway, I was just thinking about that. The movies aren't canon. I was also thinking about how the movie that's probably most likely to not likely to be able to fit into the timeline, Garlic Jr., thanks to the fact that Garlic was the only villain to ever be in the show but then again that might have been a filler arc. I have no clue if it counts.
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 21, 2011, 01:21:09 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 21, 2011, 01:14:59 PM
Well, I was counting the movies as filler as well (both filler and the films are non-canon, so whatever, it counts as filler), and Goku certainly does kill people in the movies, like Turles and Lord Slug among various others.
And Broly, Janemba, Turles henchmen and Dr. Wheelo and...God, Goku fucks people up in the films.
Seems to be quite an odd contrast between how Toriyama viewed Goku and how the anime staff did.
And to be honest, most of the ones listed in Dragon Ball were animals he killed to eat... Including Piccolo's men. The only time he really went out for vengeance was the Red Ribbon Army. Even then I think he went out to stop them, not slaughter them. Black put himself in a position where Goku really didn't have much choice.
So yeah, I think Toriyama's always been consistent with the kind of character Goku is.
Quote from: Desensitized on September 21, 2011, 08:34:57 PM
And to be honest, most of the ones listed in Dragon Ball were animals he killed to eat... Including Piccolo's men. The only time he really went out for vengeance was the Red Ribbon Army. Even then I think he went out to stop them, not slaughter them. Black put himself in a position where Goku really didn't have much choice.
Actually, he went after Piccolo and his henchmen for revenge, and for the record Yanjirobe was the one who killed and ate one of them, whereas Goku killed the one that killed Krillin.
But, yeah, that and going after the Red Ribbon army were among the only times he killed anyone out of anger. Other than that he only killed when he absolutely had to.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. It was revenge for Krillin.
The Red Ribbon Army simply needed to be stopped. Even if he had valid reasons for revenge on them, I'm pretty sure he went after them because he knew how horrible they were.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 21, 2011, 06:39:19 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 21, 2011, 01:21:09 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 21, 2011, 01:14:59 PM
Well, I was counting the movies as filler as well (both filler and the films are non-canon, so whatever, it counts as filler), and Goku certainly does kill people in the movies, like Turles and Lord Slug among various others.
And Broly, Janemba, Turles henchmen and Dr. Wheelo and...God, Goku fucks people up in the films.
Seems to be quite an odd contrast between how Toriyama viewed Goku and how the anime staff did.
Makes sense for the movies. People want to see asswhipping handed out in films. I don't mind the contrast and it's not like they can set up something ingenious every time in such a short amount of time in each film.
I've been loving the beginning of the Androids Saga. A few weeks ago I watched it when they showed it and last week the reaired the fight between the Androids and Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo and Tien. I loved:
-Them being clueless to where the Androids are.
-Dr Gero killing thousands of people right in front of Goku.
-Goku being rendered helpless
-Vegeta and Piccolo bluffing.
-Dr. Gero fleeing
-Dr Gero trying to pick them off one by one.
-18 kills Gero
-That badly edited part where the trucker survives Vegeta's blast "Hey that's my truck!"
-Vegeta getting both of his arms broken.
-The Z warriors get owned and sparred just because the Andriods were playing around with them.
Oh and the contrast between Trunks and Vegeta. That was great and made me like Trunks even more, who was already my favorite character. (along with Frieza and Perfect Cell) Future Trunks not giving a single fuck about fighter an opponent just because they're strong shows that he's more of a "pure hero" then Goku, who'd risk everyone's lives by letting his enemies get stronger like against Frieza and when he gave Cell a senzu bean. Meanwhile, Trunks just goes, "Fuck it!" and tries to kill his enemy immediately (See: Trunks goes insane and when Trunks tries to kill Cell when he's transforming instead of just sitting back and watching it.) I became a fan of Trunks just because of how he owned Frieza and King Cold when I was a kid but now I see that he's an all around good character.
So it looks like the two Cooler movies are the last in line for Nicktoons "DBZ movie" month; I don't see the first couple (Dead Zone, Tree of Might, etc.) scheduled anywhere in the lineup. Kinda sucks that they aren't airing all of them, but oh well.
I'd say this was a successful endeavor on their part, either way. A good number of these movies have never aired anywhere on TV in the US (not even on Toonami), so it was pretty cool to see them over the air for the first time ever, edited or otherwise.
Here's a good topic to steer the thread into- What are your top 10 favorite fights from the entire franchise? They can be anime, manga, filler, movies... Whatever. Just list 'em out!
I still have to think it over before I post, but what do you guys think?
In no particular order and mostly going from memory:
1.Goku vs Vegeta (round 1 haven't watched round 2 in a while, so I don't really have an opinion on it)
2.Goku vs Cell
3.Piccolo vs Goku vs Garlic Jr. and his minions
4.SSJ3 Goku vs Buu
5.Goku vs Pikkon
6.Gotenks vs Super Buu
7.Vegeta and Trunks vs Cell
8.Vegeta vs Zarbon round 2
9.Piccolo vs Android 17
10.Goku and Vegeta vs Kid Buu
1. Goku vs Vegeta (Saiyan Saga)
2. Goku vs Tien (2nd Budokai tournament in Dragon Ball)
3. Goku vs Frieza
4. Goku vs King Piccolo (2nd/final fight)
5. Goku vs Jacki-Chun/Master Roshi (1st Budokai)
6. Gohan, Krillin, and Piccolo vs Nappa
7. Vegeta vs Frieza and Various Minions of His (a tie between Frieza as well as Kiwi, Zarbon, Jeice, etc.)
8. Goku vs. Tao (2nd + 3rd round)
9. Future Trunks vs Alternate Future Android 17 + 18 (the fight from the manga and TV anime, not from the movie)
10. Goku vs Red Ribbon Army (final battle with the entire headquarters/base)
Honorable Mentions: Goku vs Murasaki (because its fucking hilarious, that's why), Goku vs General Blue (mostly for the same reasons as Murasaki), Gohan vs Cell (because it was when Gohan was in his prime as a character; as in he fully developed out of being the whiney wimp that he was at earlier parts in the series, and wasn't as cocky as he was when he was a teenager), Future Trunks vs. Frieza and his father (because I just love seeing me a good old fashioned ass-kicking)
I didn't list any fights from the movies because while some of them are entertaining, most of them lack any real substance or even a sense of serious threat to them, and feel much more like mindless beat-downs.
Mine's gonna seem weird in comparison.
1. Goku Vs. King Piccolo - I love this one simply because of how it feels like the culmination of everything Goku learned in the series up to that point, and the fight was pretty epic. To me, it really signals the end of the (first) series in a lot of ways.
2. Goku Vs. Vegeta - This is pretty much the stock fight everyone talks about. And that's because it's just that good.
3. Gohan, Vegeta and Krillin (and eventually Goku) Vs. The Ginyu Force - This is a pretty epic battle royale for the climax of the Namek saga featuring a lot of unexpected moments. And it's one of the few long running battles that doesn't wear out its welcome.
4. Vegito Vs. Super Buu - This is pretty much the final super powered battle of the series (IMO most everything after this is based on luck and coincidence) featuring the two strongest characters. Also a character with Vegeta's cockiness and Goku's playfullness is hilariously weird. It's also nice to see Vegeta's cunning side show up again in contrast to Goku's straightforwardness. He didn't even have to go SS to win. It also doesn't help that not a single character to ever appear in the series (or movies, filler or follow up series) still manages to come up to his level.
5. Goku Vs. The Red Ribbon Army - Goku storms the base Rambo style and takes out everyone who comes his way. I love this part.
6. Goku Vs. Tien - Great finale for the tournament, and easily one of the highlights of the original series.
7. Mystic Gohan Vs. Super Buu - IMO, there's only two fights I like a lot in the Buu saga and this is one of them. It's nice to see someone without golden hair kick the crap out of a bad guy for the first time in forever. And Gohan officially becomes the strongest (non-fused) character in the series like he was meant to be at the end of the Cell saga.
8. Future Trunks Vs. Androids 17 and 18 - One thing I always liked about Future Trunks was that he didn't waste any time in his fights. After everything he went through, it's nice to see him finally get what he finally deserved. A happy ending.
9. Goku and Piccolo Vs Raditz - The very first fight of DBZ pretty much changed everything to me. Everything was brought to whole other level of intensity. If I had seen this show chronologically from DB through DBZ when I first watched it, I would undoubtedly be floored.
10. Gohan, Vegeta, Krillin and Piccolo Vs. Freeza - Taking powerups to the next level. Literally. How they managed to last so long until Goku came along is a testament to their tenacity.
I'd also throw in an honorable mention for pretty much anything Vegeta did on Namek and probably any fight Krillin or Gohan were a part of, but that would be a bit too broad for me.
Good list. I like all of those fights as well, though my list has some variations on the same general battles you listed, but overall the DB series is stuffed full of good fights. I know it makes me sound like some nerdy shonen-fanboy to actually list out why I enjoy fights in a series like this, but really they aren't as brainless and half-assed as people make them out to be. As far as the manga goes, Toriyama was labeled a genius because he could make these big epic battles that actually kept the reader interesting rather than bored from long drawn-out fight scenes.
Speaking of the fights, I guess I should explain my choices as well:
1. Goku vs Vegeta (Saiyan Saga)- To me, this is when the series was at its pinnacle. While I like the 1st half of the series better in general, I will say that my absolute favorite part of the series is the Saiyan Saga, and this fight is a big reason for why. Goku going up against Vegeta for the first time ever feels epic not because of how powerful they are or how many energy blasts they spew out, it feels epic because for the most part they are pretty much on the same level, and that's just brilliant! Think about it, in most cases in DBZ fights Goku or other end up getting some advantage that puts them above the level of the villain to allow them to win the day, otherwise the good guy will win by luck or coincidence. In this fight, Goku and Vegeta both have their strengths and weanesses and in the end are pretty on par with one another after the sum of all of those things. Vegeta has more raw power at his disposal than Goku but Goku has an abundance of martial arts experience (whereas in comparison Vegeta is just really strong, and isn't established to know any specific fighting styles), and his training with Kaio allows him to use the Kaio Ken technique in order to amplify his power to even it out with Vegeta's. From there we get a battle that is above all else, really intense. It keeps swaying back and forth with one opponent getting the upper hand over the other and you have a hard time predicting how its going to follow through. To me, this is Dragon Ball action and its absolute best.
2. Goku vs Tien (2nd Budokai tournament in Dragon Ball)- Much like his fight with Vegeta, this is also great because both fighters are roughly at the same level, and this one has a ton of strategy going on between them to boot, as well as a nice touch of classic Dragon Ball style humor. The only reason its not number 1 is because since its a tournament fight, its bound by rules and since it just comes down to both fighters merely trying to knock each other out of the ring, it doesn't feel as intense or threatening as the fight with Vegeta, but even so for fight that has rule restrictiosn to it, its still top of the line entertainment.
3. Goku vs Frieza- OK, I fully admit that its long and dragged out, but the thing is it doesn't feel that dragged out to me, if only because going by the fight itself and not the other stuff happening that interupts the pacing, its actually not as terribly long as people make it out to be. I just like the fight so much because it honestly has a lot of emotional weight to it from Goku's side of things. I like how early on in the fight after Frieza kills Vegeta and Goku learns a bit more about what Frieza did to the Saiyans, he actually sympathizes with his old enemy and even fights to defend his honor. And of course having Krillin killed triggers him to transform into a Super Saiyan, and while I generally hated how over-used the SS form got for all of the Saiyan characters once the Cell Saga came into play, it was handled brilliantly in this fight, as Goku didn't completely overpower Frieza but still got to give him the proper ass-kicking that he deserved.
4. Goku vs King Piccolo (2nd/final fight)- As Desensitized said, this is basically the perfect ending to the more youthful portion of Dragon Ball (as in when Goku was a child). In many ways its really the final fight in the series to contain pretty much all of the classic Dragon Ball style elements within its formula, which the series kind of grew out of later on, so naturally this one has a truly classic feeling to it that can't be matched by anything else.
5. Goku vs Jacki-Chun/Master Roshi (1st Budokai)- A classic battle between student and master, what else is there to say? Its also nice that its the first fight that Goku lost, since it would have been ridiculous if he was able to beat everyone he fought throughout the series (it would have become boring in no time, then).
6. Gohan, Krillin, and Piccolo vs Nappa- I just love how outmatched these 3 are and how they have to use brilliant teamwork to stay together. I also love the scene in which Piccolo gives up his live to protect Gohan, which is really touching to see how much Gohan caused him to change as a person from his former evil ways. Also, that feeling of desperation just gives this fight such an intense feeling.
7. Vegeta vs Frieza and Various Minions of His (a tie between Frieza as well as Kiwi, Zarbon, Jeice, etc.)- All of these fights are great. All of the fights with Frieza's minions show you just how much of a bad-ass Vegeta is, and even though he gets his ass kicked a couple of times, you really get engaged in the fights because you find that you really get into Vegeta's character in this arc and actually want to see him win.
8. Goku vs. Tao (2nd + 3rd round)- This gets major props for being the first time in the series that Goku has to fight an opponent that had clearly outmatched him in every way. After getting his ass-kicked and being unable to protect the father of his new friend, he trains hard and comes back to teach Tao a lesson, and for that this fight has a truly rewarding feeling to it.
9. Future Trunks vs Alternate Future Android 17 + 18 (the fight from the manga and TV anime, not from the movie)- Once again, Desensitized pretty much nailed the reason for why this fight is so good. It just feels so satisfying to see Trunks finally get the ending that he deserves, and you just have to smile when he gives those Alternate Future Androids just what they deserve.
10. Goku vs Red Ribbon Army (final battle with the entire headquarters/base)- And yup, this is yet a third time where I agree with exactly what Desensitized said. No need for any additional explanations on my point over here.
Dragonball is still one of the best when it comes to battles even so long after it ended. There are few fights I outright dislike in the series (and I think pretty much every fight up to Freeza is pretty great) like even if I'm not all that big on the Cell or Buu arcs, they do contain some pretty cool fights that are still fun to watch.
I like Dragonball more than Z because it has great fights as well as great adventure and funny comedy, but the whole series really works great when it comes to action scenes.
Quote from: Kiddington on October 06, 2011, 03:42:17 PM
So it looks like the two Cooler movies are the last in line for Nicktoons "DBZ movie" month; I don't see the first couple (Dead Zone, Tree of Might, etc.) scheduled anywhere in the lineup. Kinda sucks that they aren't airing all of them, but oh well.
I'd say this was a successful endeavor on their part, either way. A good number of these movies have never aired anywhere on TV in the US (not even on Toonami), so it was pretty cool to see them over the air for the first time ever, edited or otherwise.
Which ones haven't aired on TV? Super Android 13? (That's right, I watched that on youtube with a buddy at my old job) Bojack? (watched that on DVD?) I'm sure they showed everything else.
Anyway, it was good to finally watch all of Return of Cooler. I missed the part before Vegeta came when Cartoon Network aired it. Funny, I had a dream about that movie last night.
Anyway, my favorites that they showed (in no order) are the 1st Broly, Cooler's Revenge and Fusion Reborn. Such well directed fights in Fusion Reborn and I loved the music. I had to add that. I wonder how the first 3 films stack up. I remember them being so good.
Them airing Bojack made me get to appreciate it a bit more. I used to think it wasn't that good but I think it's alright now. Nothing special of course. And I got to get around to actually watching Broly's Second Coming. I think I watched all of it years ago but I barely remember it, probably because I didn't pay attention.
Quote from: Desensitized on October 06, 2011, 03:51:34 PM
Here's a good topic to steer the thread into- What are your top 10 favorite fights from the entire franchise? They can be anime, manga, filler, movies... Whatever. Just list 'em out!
I still have to think it over before I post, but what do you guys think?
1. Future Trunks vs Frieza (now that's how you make handsigns, you Naruto bitches)
(the rest in no order)
Vegeta vs Goku (I love the best Kamehameha ever and Great Ape Vegeta is the only good giant villain fight in the franchise.)
Majin Vegeta vs Goku (All the kids love Goku's infamous rock punch. A pure fuck yeah moment and the height of the sorry ass, punk ass Buu saga) EDIT: (https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgifsoup.com%2Fview%2F505559%2Fgoku-vs-vegeta.html&hash=4752127c4ff5655779b4c8c43b3a0f879896a759)
Piccolo vs Kami (The best DB fight I've seen so far. Them speaking Namekian made it even cooler.)
Tien vs Semi-Perfect Cell (Dumbasses need to learn Tribeam. It's been said that's it better than Kamehameha forever.)
Perfect Cell vs Goku
Super Perfect Cell vs Gohan
Goku vs Frieza
Goku vs both Janemba forms (the music alone would put it here.)
Broly vs Z Warriors (One of the only villains the team has and had to team up on. Broly unique to DBZ prowrestling style fighting also adds to this.)
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on October 06, 2011, 05:41:44 PM
1. Goku vs Vegeta (Saiyan Saga)
2. Goku vs Tien (2nd Budokai tournament in Dragon Ball)
3. Goku vs Frieza
4. Goku vs King Piccolo (2nd/final fight)
5. Goku vs Jacki-Chun/Master Roshi (1st Budokai)
6. Gohan, Krillin, and Piccolo vs Nappa
7. Vegeta vs Frieza and Various Minions of His (a tie between Frieza as well as Kiwi, Zarbon, Jeice, etc.)
8. Goku vs. Tao (2nd + 3rd round)
9. Future Trunks vs Alternate Future Android 17 + 18 (the fight from the manga and TV anime, not from the movie)
10. Goku vs Red Ribbon Army (final battle with the entire headquarters/base)
Honorable Mentions: Goku vs Murasaki (because its fucking hilarious, that's why), Goku vs General Blue (mostly for the same reasons as Murasaki), Gohan vs Cell (because it was when Gohan was in his prime as a character; as in he fully developed out of being the whiney wimp that he was at earlier parts in the series, and wasn't as cocky as he was when he was a teenager), Future Trunks vs. Frieza and his father (because I just love seeing me a good old fashioned ass-kicking)
I didn't list any fights from the movies because while some of them are entertaining, most of them lack any real substance or even a sense of serious threat to them, and feel much more like mindless beat-downs.
Oh yeah, Goku vs Master Roshi. I was recently thinking about that. I like how Roshi's goal was to beat Goku so he'd stay interested in martial arts and how he beat him because Goku's smaller body couldn't take the punishment. Also, blowing up the fucking moon was cool too.
Quote from: Desensitized on October 06, 2011, 08:07:26 PM
Mine's gonna seem weird in comparison.
1. Goku Vs. King Piccolo - I love this one simply because of how it feels like the culmination of everything Goku learned in the series up to that point, and the fight was pretty epic. To me, it really signals the end of the (first) series in a lot of ways.
2. Goku Vs. Vegeta - This is pretty much the stock fight everyone talks about. And that's because it's just that good.
3. Gohan, Vegeta and Krillin (and eventually Goku) Vs. The Ginyu Force - This is a pretty epic battle royale for the climax of the Namek saga featuring a lot of unexpected moments. And it's one of the few long running battles that doesn't wear out its welcome.
4. Vegito Vs. Super Buu - This is pretty much the final super powered battle of the series (IMO most everything after this is based on luck and coincidence) featuring the two strongest characters. Also a character with Vegeta's cockiness and Goku's playfullness is hilariously weird. It's also nice to see Vegeta's cunning side show up again in contrast to Goku's straightforwardness. He didn't even have to go SS to win. It also doesn't help that not a single character to ever appear in the series (or movies, filler or follow up series) still manages to come up to his level.
5. Goku Vs. The Red Ribbon Army - Goku storms the base Rambo style and takes out everyone who comes his way. I love this part.
6. Goku Vs. Tien - Great finale for the tournament, and easily one of the highlights of the original series.
7. Mystic Gohan Vs. Super Buu - IMO, there's only two fights I like a lot in the Buu saga and this is one of them. It's nice to see someone without golden hair kick the crap out of a bad guy for the first time in forever. And Gohan officially becomes the strongest (non-fused) character in the series like he was meant to be at the end of the Cell saga.
8. Future Trunks Vs. Androids 17 and 18 - One thing I always liked about Future Trunks was that he didn't waste any time in his fights. After everything he went through, it's nice to see him finally get what he finally deserved. A happy ending.
9. Goku and Piccolo Vs Raditz - The very first fight of DBZ pretty much changed everything to me. Everything was brought to whole other level of intensity. If I had seen this show chronologically from DB through DBZ when I first watched it, I would undoubtedly be floored.
10. Gohan, Vegeta, Krillin and Piccolo Vs. Freeza - Taking powerups to the next level. Literally. How they managed to last so long until Goku came along is a testament to their tenacity.
I'd also throw in an honorable mention for pretty much anything Vegeta did on Namek and probably any fight Krillin or Gohan were a part of, but that would be a bit too broad for me.
+1 I vaguely remember that fight though....assuming I don't have it mixed up with all the other damn times Trunks fought the Androids. I'll watch it when Kai shows it.
So Cell's dialogue doesn't sound like something from gay porn anymore. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_-H1kqEfk)
Yeah, they've definitely fixed a lot of things that were wrong with the original dub. I've been enjoying the Cell saga so much more, now that the voice acting doesn't suck. Even the most staunch of weeaboos (you know who I'm talking about) should be able to acknowledge how much better this is.
...anyway, as far as my top 10 fights go, still thinking that over. I'm almost inclined to make the majority of my list from Dragon Ball, and not DBZ; the fights from the original are just so much more fun, IMO, and I love how there's always a touch of comedy involved (even in the most serious situations). I'll probably have something in a day or so here, but I don't think it'll be that much different from anyone else's anyway.
Since I'm not on a PSP right now, I fixed my quadruple post.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on October 10, 2011, 04:57:37 PM
So Cell's dialogue doesn't sound like something from gay porn anymore. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_-H1kqEfk)
"That fool should feel honored to be the first to sample my new power."
:lol: I think that line was pretty cheesy. I'm glad I couldn't watch that on my PSP. It was kind of cool waiting to hear Cell's new voice for the first time. I liked how they didn't show it on any of the commercials.
It's good to see that now they've shown 3 for 3 of my favorite DBZ character and in the next episode, 2 for 3 will be fighting each other.
Future Trunks vs Cell irked me. Trunks getting slower from growing his muscles was the very first thing I didn't like about DBZ (2nd would be the Buu saga, of course) It's just so freaking stupid. Trunks has enough energy to move a planet around at light speed. It makes no sense whatsoever. I'll try to enjoy the actual fight though. I missed pieces or whatever and I forgot it happens right after the Vegeta fight. I think I remembered it as Trunks meeting up to fight Vegeta later on.
Quote from: gunswordfist on October 11, 2011, 12:25:45 PMQuote from: Dr. Insomniac on October 10, 2011, 04:57:37 PM
So Cell's dialogue doesn't sound like something from gay porn anymore. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_-H1kqEfk)
"That fool should feel honored to be the first to sample my new power."
:lol: I think that line was pretty cheesy. I'm glad I couldn't watch that on my PSP. It was kind of cool waiting to hear Cell's new voice for the first time. I liked how they didn't show it on any of the commercials.
Compare and contrast. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCo2vWIf0z0)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on October 11, 2011, 06:03:14 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on October 11, 2011, 12:25:45 PMQuote from: Dr. Insomniac on October 10, 2011, 04:57:37 PM
So Cell's dialogue doesn't sound like something from gay porn anymore. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_-H1kqEfk)
"That fool should feel honored to be the first to sample my new power."
:lol: I think that line was pretty cheesy. I'm glad I couldn't watch that on my PSP. It was kind of cool waiting to hear Cell's new voice for the first time. I liked how they didn't show it on any of the commercials.
Compare and contrast. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCo2vWIf0z0)
:lol: Now I see what you meant.
I can't wait for today's "new episode".
Last week, I like how Cell actually panicked and got severely hurt. It's just good to not have to wait for a villain's last episode for something like that to happen. Also, how he let Krillin take Vegeta away because he had no more interest in fighting him instead of just killing him for no reason reminds me why I like Cell so much.
You thought that our censorship of the DBZ was weird, wait till you see Thailand's dub and how they handle the scene where Gero impales Yamcha. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmlm-JMk4Qg)
Quote from: Daxdiv on November 10, 2011, 08:02:12 PM
You thought that our censorship of the DBZ was weird, wait till you see Thailand's dub and how they handle the scene where Gero impales Yamcha. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmlm-JMk4Qg)
Thai Gero genetically alters Thai Yamcha so he can grow a penis out of his back? What a nice doctor!
Anybody here have the Blu-Ray remastering of DBZ?
I saw it at Wal-Mart today, kinda wanted it but it was only the first 17 episodes, and after the last infamous remastering, I don't know if I'd be willing to take that risk.
Quote from: Daxdiv on November 10, 2011, 08:02:12 PM
You thought that our censorship of the DBZ was weird, wait till you see Thailand's dub and how they handle the scene where Gero impales Yamcha. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmlm-JMk4Qg)
Now THAT'S a penetration attack.
Okay, scratch that about Kai Cell not sounding gay. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctlghRvL3yo) And he apparently really enjoyed his fight with Gohan. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3Y-x1ePyRU)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on November 18, 2011, 07:30:24 PM
Okay, scratch that about Kai Cell not sounding gay. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctlghRvL3yo)
O_o
NOWRATCHETUPYOURPOWERLEVELANDCOMETOME. Wow... I have to say, that feels oddly nostalgic, you know? You could throw that right into the dub from 10 years ago, and it wouldn't sound a bit out of place.
They seem to be losing their touch.
So, for those of you who don't know, there was a 3 issue Dragon Ball spin-off earlier this year called Episode of Bardock. It was supposed to be some alternate reality story about Bardock actually not dying by Freeza's hands but instead somehow winding up in the past after being caught up in his blast, and then fighting one of Freeza's ancestors or something like that. I never actually read past the first issue so maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's close enough to the plot.
Anyways, according to ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-11-21/dragon-ball-episode-of-bardock-spinoff-manga-gets-anime) its gotten an anime adaptation that will be airing next month at the Jump Festa event.
The 1st thing I watched on the youtube 360 app last week:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I4weqVv2ds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I4weqVv2ds)
I'm seriously falling in love with DBZ's soundtrack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3xWqRwNaDQ&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3xWqRwNaDQ&feature=related)
Quote from: gunswordfist on December 19, 2011, 11:45:40 AM
The 1st thing I watched on the youtube 360 app last week:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I4weqVv2ds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I4weqVv2ds)
About to watch this yet again. I love so much about this. This is the only fight where I got to enjoy this transformation since I hate the Buu saga so much. I love how the last part plays out because the two seem to be roughly the same power level but the victor wins not because of his power level but because he's constantly
unpredictable. Also, how well coordinated the fight and the fact the the music and sound effects are perfect tie everything together.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 21, 2011, 04:20:53 PM
So, for those of you who don't know, there was a 3 issue Dragon Ball spin-off earlier this year called Episode of Bardock. It was supposed to be some alternate reality story about Bardock actually not dying by Freeza's hands but instead somehow winding up in the past after being caught up in his blast, and then fighting one of Freeza's ancestors or something like that. I never actually read past the first issue so maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's close enough to the plot.
Anyways, according to ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-11-21/dragon-ball-episode-of-bardock-spinoff-manga-gets-anime) its gotten an anime adaptation that will be airing next month at the Jump Festa event.
I've seen it, basically its about Bardock going Super Saiyan and killing Frieza's great-great-grandfather Lord Chilled. This leads to Frieza's desire to wipeout the Saiyans so that another SS won't appear. A Predestination paradox as it were.
Some fans have theorized that because Bardock is now the source of the Super Saiyan bloodline he might actually be Vegeta's great ancestor, meaning Vegeta and Kakarot are now related or something. It's a bit weird but makes sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwK-DpyW8-Q&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwK-DpyW8-Q&feature=plcp)
So glorious.
Quote from: Rynnec on May 17, 2012, 07:11:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwK-DpyW8-Q&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwK-DpyW8-Q&feature=plcp)
So glorious.
Ah yes, Falcouner!
So, we're getting a new theatrical Dragon Ball Z movie. I am so, so disappointed that its not Dragon Ball movie. I know Z is far more popular, but I was hoping it would be a really fun adventure flick like in the vein of the 4 DB movies that were released. They weren't anything sophisticated or even that memorable, but they were fun, and a high-production DB film with a lot of effort put into it could indeed turn out to be a fantastic family movie.
That said, this new Z movies does at least seem like its going to have some genuine effort put into it. They have a writer who apparently worked on the film adaptations of 20th Century Boys and they have some high-profile animators working on the project.
There's 4 DB movies? If the film is going to have Future Trunks in it then color me interested.
In a semi-interesting surprise, the movie's canon (taking place after the Buu saga) with heavy involvement from Toriyama. (http://www.jefusion.com/2012/07/toriyama-new-dragon-ball-z-film-took.html)
Ah sweet, that time period and before and after the Cell Games are the best times for movies. It would be cool to see SS3 Goku in a 2nd good work, since I only got to enjoy that transformation in Fusion Reborn since the Buu saga sucks so much.
Also, I'm loving the staff. I'm confident the film will be good.
Relevance. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AooCoQ9Gh-Y)
Can someone explain this to me? (http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Ball-Box-Two/dp/B002Y0KR7A)
Why is this one apparently worth over $400 used, while every other version in the set is barely worth over $50?
Well, the seller says it's out of print, but even then, maybe all the reasonably priced copies are gone and all that's left are the dickbags?
I want to know what it was like for someone if they only had the Ocean dub to listen to, only to find out years later that some deranged Texans made a dub of their own.
Going through the flu these past few days, I've started rewatching Dragon Ball for the first time since it originally aired. It's interesting to see all the... nudity that was originally edited out (well, amusing actually, I'm not sure how Bulma wouldn't notice her underwear was gone when the only other thing she was wearing was a gown), and I've also forgotten how genuinely funny Master Roshi and Oolong are in their debut episodes.
And we're back. (http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2012/11/06/dragon-ball-kai-continues-but-not-in-japan/)
Cool. I wonder if FUNi decided to fund this? Looks like Nick and CW will have more episodes to air after all.
Huh. Well, how do you like that.
Watching Buu without filler is going be weird though, considering how much of it was actually plot driven, leading up to the main event (whereas the majority of Frieza/Cell filler was nothing but overdrawn, five hour battle sequences). The Great Saiyaman saga in particular, given how well most of it flows into the events of World Tournament/Buu.
We'll see how they handle it, I guess. Cool that it's back, though.
I'm wondering who they'll get to dub Videl and Goten since Kara Edwards doesn't do much FUNi work. Still, she does the roles on the Budokai games, so she'll probably be back.
I'm more curious to see how they handle Buu's voice this time around. Will Fat Buu be as ridiculous as he was 10 years ago? If the games are any indication, I'm leaning towards yes (looks like the same guy still doing it, as recently as 2010).
I don't know. Apparently, the latest game had Meredith McCoy, Linda Young, and Stephanie Nadolny in their original roles (though they inconsistently switch to their Kai actors in a few scenes). It's really just a guessing game and whether or not the actor has done any recent FUNi roles.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on November 09, 2012, 01:53:00 AM
I don't know. Apparently, the latest game had Meredith McCoy, Linda Young, and Stephanie Nadolny in their original roles (though they inconsistently switch to their Kai actors in a few scenes). It's really just a guessing game and whether or not the actor has done any recent FUNi roles.
That makes no sense. At all.
Chris Ayers must be busy, because there is absolutely no excuse otherwise to
not have him as permanent Frieza at this point, and I was under the impression that Nadolny moved on from FUNi years ago.
How strange.
Once again, it's inconsistent. From a video I saw, a level can pass from Young to Ayres without skipping a beat. Maybe the game was being localized in the middle of Kai being dubbed or something. Or the place where they dub the games is different from where they dub the show.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on November 09, 2012, 01:53:00 AM
I don't know. Apparently, the latest game had Meredith McCoy, Linda Young, and Stephanie Nadolny in their original roles (though they inconsistently switch to their Kai actors in a few scenes). It's really just a guessing game and whether or not the actor has done any recent FUNi roles.
Which game is this? Because the only release I'm aware of is the Budokai collection. ???
Ultimate Tenkaichi
Alright people! Prepare yourselves for Goku Vs....
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg341.imageshack.us%2Fimg341%2F8863%2Fdbzmovie.jpg&hash=d317e5e78311c7087c88e82ad152da02b9c91510)
....Some weird Anubis-like thing....
Honestly, that villain design seems like it'd fit in better with the original Dragon Ball than in a more serious DBZ-flick, but maybe that's not such a bad thing as I do like DB better than DBZ. Either way, though, with how much Super Saiyan's in DBZ have been compared to gods, its only appropriate that they fight a villain that is based off of a god.
He looks like a purple bunny to me.
Why is Gohan Super Saiyanoh nevermind.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 11, 2012, 07:12:02 PM
Why is Gohan Super Saiyanoh nevermind.
Mystic? When the hell did that happen?
I'm wondering who the hell that girl is in front of Buu.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on November 11, 2012, 07:14:54 PM
I'm wondering who the hell that girl is in front of Buu.
It looks like Pan grew up.
While Gohan and Goten still look young.
Okay?
I think that girl is supposed to Videl. Not a fan of her new look.
Also can't say I'm too fond of the villain's design either. I wouldn't mind it if this were a more comedic film, but isn't this one supposed to be a bit more serious?
Quote from: Avaitor on November 11, 2012, 07:16:53 PM
It looks like Pan grew up.
That can't be Pan, since this movie is supposed to take place at some point in the 10 years between the end of the Majin Buu arc and the epilogue/ending of the series, at which point Pan was still only just a child. At this point in the timeline, Pan would either have not been born yet, or would just be an infant if anything. The person in the poster is most likely Videl.
That definitely looks like a purple bunny. Goku must be trying to stop it's evil plot of trying to sell cigarettes to children.
Ishtar is at Disney for his yearly visit, and he posted these pics from the Japan store at Epcot.
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/602872_10151358991245795_441036933_n.jpg)
There's also Sailor Moon, Naruto and Hetalia (for whatever reason) stuff there, but I figured this would be of the most interest for the board. I don't know about you, but I really want Gohan's cap.
Edit: there's also Pokemon (natch), Ghibli (natch), and One Piece (yeah) stuff there, as well, not to mention Mario and Sonic toys you can get at your local Target.
Chris Sabat was on vacation. (http://www.aaaanime.com/item/DVDs/FN01204.html)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on February 15, 2013, 07:03:36 PM
Chris Sabat was on vacation. (http://www.aaaanime.com/item/DVDs/FN01204.html)
I'm still surprised this a thing.
Quote from: Daxdiv on February 15, 2013, 07:24:25 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on February 15, 2013, 07:03:36 PM
Chris Sabat was on vacation. (http://www.aaaanime.com/item/DVDs/FN01204.html)
I'm still surprised this a thing.
Yeah, after all these years of memory repression, it was almost as if Sean and Chris were always Goku & Vegeta.
Product description says it's been re-dubbed. Assuming that's accurate, that means they actually got all of these guys from 1996 back together again to re-record the same show for like the 20th time.
Why? Just... why? Do people even like the Ocean Dub for any reason aside from old, tired memes?
Rewatching bits and pieces of the Buu saga has only again reminded me of how much I love the Faulconer score. Seriously. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYatvbogAKI)
The original dub had a lot of problems, but I'll damned if anyone says the soundtrack is one of them.
It was good enough for me to buy the cd soundtracks, that's for sure. :worship:
Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9D_d4TRSCEA) is, some new footage.
Its not a full-blown trailer or anything like that, but I've got to say: that animation looks gorgeous. :huh:
Its easily the most budget that this franchise will ever get for anything....ever.
That villain looks fucking weird... even moreso in action than on the original poster. Also, Pilaf and his gang being in the movie is an interesting call. As far as I can remember, they never once appeared in DBZ at all; only the original and one or two episodes of GT.
Nevertheless, I am still intrigued. Wonder if FUNi will ever get their hands on it...
Hopefully. Sean Schemmel says there hasn't been any word though.
Quote from: Kiddington on February 23, 2013, 07:15:16 PM
That villain looks fucking weird... even moreso in action than on the original poster.
The character designs were actually done by Toriyama himself for this movie, including the villain designs. If you're familiar with Toriyama's art-work and character designs, his characters are deliberately more cartoony and have a light-hearted sort of feel to them. The anime kind of made the designs look a bit more serious, but there was always a touch of humor to the manga, so the result we got here is a villain that is more befitting of what Toriyama would draw in the manga than what anime fans would expect. From what I've heard, Toriyama himself was involved with writing the story for this movie, and he claimed to have written it like how he would write an arc of the manga if he continued it past the Majin-Buu arc (which itself was play more for humor in the manga than it was in the anime), and he did say that its not his style to go all-out dark with a series like this and prefers that it has plenty of light-hearted elements, so the design of the villain seems to fall very much in line with that claim.
As for me, I'm fine with it as long as the villain himself can still manage to be entertaining and memorable like past DB/Z villains. I mean, when you really stop to think about it, didn't Frieza look weird as fuck, as well? Yet he's probably the most memorable DBZ villain. Buu also looked pretty ridiculous, so this new guy's design doesn't really phase me all that much.
QuoteNevertheless, I am still intrigued. Wonder if FUNi will ever get their hands on it...
Well, DBZ has always been their #1 money-maker, and I'm pretty sure Toei is well-aware of DBZ's international popularity, so I don't see how FUNi wouldn't be getting this movie localized here as soon as possible.
Funi still has yet to license the Jump Special from 2008 though.
Well, to be fair, that was a pretty minor thing, and Toei Animation themselves streamed the English subbed version of the special for free.
So... this happened. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NXA1Kk5VCk)
Quote from: Kiddington on March 01, 2013, 09:30:25 PM
So... this happened. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NXA1Kk5VCk)
Why did he only have 1 drumstick in his hand?
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on March 01, 2013, 09:43:25 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on March 01, 2013, 09:30:25 PM
So... this happened. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NXA1Kk5VCk)
Why did he only have 1 drumstick in his hand?
...so he can fight with the other?
I'm not at all into these pointless vs. battle things, but for what its worth, I found this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oyl97TG8jbA) to be extremely entertaining in an extremely nerdy sort of way. Its all just for good fun, at any rate.
Whenever we do get the Kai dub of Buu, I'm still having a very hard time imagining any part of it without this theme. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s2Ksz7rpck)
It's become so iconic to that era of the series for me; from Goku going SS3 for the first time, to finally destroying Kid Buu once and for all, they played this during nearly every major moment, and it fits so perfectly. It's too bad they couldn't have used Faulconer's stuff after the original Kai score (which I do like, but it is what it is) turned out to be plagiarized.
On the opposite end, I could just never get into Kikuchi's score. It was great in the original Dragon Ball, but feels so out of place in DBZ.
I hear ya. I wish the Z portion of Dragonball had more rock music. I mean, listen to this cover (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUrupnkFFuo) of Cha La Head Cha La and just try to tell me that it's not completely awesome.
If nothing else, having Arc System Works develop another DBZ game so Ishiwatari-san can compose the soundtrack would be pure bliss.
So, I've been re-watching the hell out of Dragon Ball, lately, and as of 30+ episodes in....yeah, this series TOTALLY deserved its place in our top 20 on our animated series list. Both the humor and adventure elements of this show have aged so damn well that its actually kind of surprising for me. I really do hate it when people confuse this series with DBZ. While DBZ was also based off of good manga material, there is such a cleverness to the early parts of Dragon Ball that were adapted so damn well in the original anime that its really a shame that this iteration of the series isn't at least as popular as its direct sequel adaptation.
I'm currently on the Red Ribbon army arc, BTW, and the filler material isn't half-bad, so even that element of the show still holds up to at least a certain degree, IMO.
Dragon Ball is still a fun adventure series. The music is great, too.
Yeah, I'm really loving how great the score is when I watch this series. I agree with the person above who said it wasn't really that great for DBZ (I've stated before, though, that I'm not a big fan of either soundtrack for DBZ, and I think their both OK with a few stand-out tracks, each), but Dragon Ball's music just fits the tone of the series so perfectly. Its among the few truly memorable soundtracks that I've ever heard from an anime series.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 15, 2013, 09:42:39 PM
While DBZ was also based off of good manga material, there is such a cleverness to the early parts of Dragon Ball that were adapted so damn well in the original anime that its really a shame that this iteration of the series isn't at least as popular as its direct sequel adaptation.
I'm currently on the Red Ribbon army arc, BTW, and the filler material isn't half-bad, so even that element of the show still holds up to at least a certain degree, IMO.
The filler in the original
Dragonball is phenomenal. Hands down the best in any anime adaption, to the point where it's inclusion
improves the already great story. The episodes featuring Colonel Silver especially hype up the Red Ribbon Army as a dangerous threat, making it all the more awesome when Goku completely owns Silver without much hassle. Not to mention that the inclusion of Pilaf in those episodes made his role at the end of the Fortuneteller Baba saga some good circular storytelling, whereas his inclusion at the end of it in the manga wasn't hinted at before and comes off as random.
Dragonball Z has some good uses of filler, but nearly 80% comes off as padding that doesn't add to the story in any meaningful way. It's a shame that DBZ is more popular just because of it's battles although
Dragonball has the superior story, but at least it was still popular back when Toonami aired it.
I always liked how the filler in DB added to the core story and were not just random uninteresting stories that have nothing to do with the tale.
Yeah, with Dragon Ball, you really get the sense that the writers for the anime actually gave a crap about the story, and crafted most of the filler to try and enhance it, which works out well since Toriyama is the sort of writer who leaves a lot of finer details out of his story to keep the pacing moving along quick (which is perfect for a manga, while leaving plenty of room for interpretation from the standpoint of a writer adapting the series into an anime). Thankfully, the writers working on Dragon Ball clearly took advantage of this fact and capitalized on the opportunity to enrich the story. Of course, the series does have its fair share of stand-alone filler as well, but from what I can remember, even a decent number of those were pretty good.
And yes, I also like how Dragon Ball's filler will often take the time to show you what other recurring characters are up to. For instance, I like how the anime actually gave you a resolution to Nam's story, whereas the guy was completely forgotten about in the manga past Goku's fight with him.
I also like how there was more filler material in Dragon Ball to flesh out Tien's character. Honestly, Tien is one of my favorite characters from the Dragon Ball anime, specifically, whereas in the manga and DBZ they never really gave that much breadth to his character (though I did still like him during his early appearances in the manga, as well).
Tien Shinhan's arc in the anime is simply fantastic and a shining example of how filler, when used properly, can improve upon the original source material.
Unfortunately, most anime adaptions give DBZ-esque padding and random comedy filler nowadays. Ugh.
As far as DBZ filler goes, I mildly enjoyed the Garlic Jr. Revenge arc, and I liked that humorous episode where Goku and Piccolo learn how to drive. I also got a small kick out of the Saiyaman episodes. Other than that, I can't stand any of the filler in DBZ.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 01:56:01 PM
As far as DBZ filler goes, I mildly enjoyed the Garlic Jr. Revenge arc, and I liked that humorous episode where Goku and Piccolo learn how to drive. I also got a small kick out of the Saiyaman episodes. Other than that, I can't stand any of the filler in DBZ.
I don't think Garlic Junior's arc holds up at all. It feels like it goes on too long, none of the villains are interesting and the concept of Gohan's friends and loved ones turning against him felt wasted. I did enjoy Kami and Popo's role in the arc, as well as some of the scenes of Vegeta looking for Goku, but the arc as a whole is rather boring to me.
I think the episode where Goku and Piccolo *try* to learn how to drive not very funny and kind of medicore myself. Everyone else on the planet seems to love that episode though, so I guess that's just me.
As for the filler in DBZ I do like:
Gohan and the Dinosaur.
Gohan and the Old Robot.
Pendulum Room Peril.
The Arlia episode.
Goz and Mez.
The episode where Gohan transformed into a Great Ape a second time because of Goku's old ship.
Scenes involving Launch.
Princess Snake.
Goku chasing Gregory with the mallet.
Nappa destroying military and naval fleets while waiting for Goku.
When Goku left the hospital to go train because he was worried about the safety of the others.
Captain Ginyu switching bodies with Bulma.
Scenes involving Imperfect Cell hunting humans for energy while the Z fighters try to stop him.
The scene where Hercule pulled three buses behind him at a demonstration.
The second of Mercenary Tao's episodes.
The Great Saiyaman episodes, excluding the Dinosaur one.
Some of the scenes that show Bulma and company hunting for the Dragonballs to revive the people Vegeta killed.
Most of the extra scenes showing other characters donating energy/trying to get other people to donate energy to Goku when he is charging the Spirit Bomb to defeat Kid Buu.
The episode where Majin Buu foils a Bank robbery.
I know that seems like a lot, but it's really only about 30% of the filler in the show. The stuff I cant stand is usually the stupid comedy filler, like anything with Marron, or Bulma during Namek, or Chi Chi during anything. I will say that the filler during the Saiyan saga is actually good or at the very least not painfully mediocre, but the filler in the show definatley gets worse around middle Namek with the exception of a couple stand out moments. That being said, even though there is filler I enjoy in DBZ, I prefer to watch Kai nowadays, especially since it even keeps some of the filler I like such as Imperfect Cell hunting down humans.
Quote from: Cartoon X on March 16, 2013, 03:38:22 PM
I don't think Garlic Junior's arc holds up at all. It feels like it goes on too long, none of the villains are interesting and the concept of Gohan's friends and loved ones turning against him felt wasted. I did enjoy Kami and Popo's role in the arc, as well as some of the scenes of Vegeta looking for Goku, but the arc as a whole is rather boring to me.
I never said it was good. I just said that I mildly enjoyed it, if only because I kind of enjoyed the Dead Zone movie and I kind of liked that this arc called back to that. Its still mediocre filler, but its not as god-awful as most of the other DBZ filler. That, and unlike most of the other filler in the series, this doesn't take place in the middle of a canon arc, so it doesn't drag down the quality of material from the manga, as it can be skipped and nothing would be lost in translation.
QuoteI think the episode where Goku and Piccolo *try* to learn how to drive not very funny and kind of medicore myself. Everyone else on the planet seems to love that episode though, so I guess that's just me.
Humor is a very subjective thing. I don't think its laugh-out loud funny, but I do find humor in the absurdity of the situation.
QuoteGohan and the Dinosaur.
I don't even remember this one, honestly.
QuoteGohan and the Old Robot.
This one was actually pretty decent, now that I think about it.
QuotePendulum Room Peril.
The Arlia episode.
Goz and Mez.
The episode where Gohan transformed into a Great Ape a second time because of Goku's old ship.
Scenes involving Launch.
Princess Snake.
Goku chasing Gregory with the mallet.
Nappa destroying military and naval fleets while waiting for Goku.
Personally, these are the types of fillers that I HATE the most. They aren't too bad on their own, but what bugs me so much about them is that unlike the bad stand-alone fillers, these ones downright slow down the plot since they deliberately occur within the middle of an arc. I LOVE the Saiyan arc in the manga, and to me these kind of butchered the already slow pacing of the anime adaptation. I know that they were trying to add to the story like how they did with the Dragon Ball filler episodes, but whereas those fillers were written well to be interwoven into the stories and give them some added depth, here they just feel lazily forced in to stall the pacing of the series and drag out the episode count to keep the series from catching up to the manga. That may have been the intention with the Dragon Ball fillers as well, but whereas those ones felt like the writers were still trying to maintain the quality of the story-telling, here it just felt like they didn't care much at all. That said, its just my opinion, of course.
QuoteWhen Goku left the hospital to go train because he was worried about the safety of the others.
Captain Ginyu switching bodies with Bulma.
Scenes involving Imperfect Cell hunting humans for energy while the Z fighters try to stop him.
The scene where Hercule pulled three buses behind him at a demonstration.
Once again, these fillers fall into the above category that I just don't like, but they didn't bother me as much since I merely only liked the arcs that they were adapting, whereas I downright loved the Saiyan arc, so those fillers hurt more than these ones, for me.
QuoteThe second of Mercenary Tao's episodes.
I liked this one, myself, and any other general fillers that called back to early (and forgotten) Dragon Ball characters.
QuoteThe Great Saiyaman episodes, excluding the Dinosaur one.
As I stated before, I also get a kick out of these episodes, myself.
QuoteSome of the scenes that show Bulma and company hunting for the Dragonballs to revive the people Vegeta killed.
Once again, this is among the ones I don't care for.
QuoteMost of the extra scenes showing other characters donating energy/trying to get other people to donate energy to Goku when he is charging the Spirit Bomb to defeat Kid Buu.
I liked these scenes as well, but I wouldn't count them as filler "episodes," since they are just scenes interwoven into actual material adapted straight from the manga.
QuoteThe episode where Majin Buu foils a Bank robbery.
This, along with the last few episodes of the series (which were all filler episodes until the final episode), were fairly amusing. I actually liked the filler at the end of the series as it gave more closure to the characters that we had all come to love throughout the series, and showed them living a peaceful life, whereas the ending in the manga felt rather rushed, IMO.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
Humor is a very subjective thing. I don't think its laugh-out loud funny, but I do find humor in the absurdity of the situation.
Yeah, I can understand that. I've just never cared for that episode, personally, but the concept is pretty great honestly. I just wished the episode overall turned out funnier than it was.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
QuotePendulum Room Peril.
The Arlia episode.
Goz and Mez.
The episode where Gohan transformed into a Great Ape a second time because of Goku's old ship.
Scenes involving Launch.
Princess Snake.
Goku chasing Gregory with the mallet.
Nappa destroying military and naval fleets while waiting for Goku.
Personally, these are the types of fillers that I HATE the most. They aren't too bad on their own, but what bugs me so much about them is that unlike the bad stand-alone fillers, these ones downright slow down the plot since they deliberately occur within the middle of an arc. I LOVE the Saiyan arc in the manga, and to me these kind of butchered the already slow pacing of the anime adaptation. I know that they were trying to add to the story like how they did with the Dragon Ball filler episodes, but whereas those fillers were written well to be interwoven into the stories and give them some added depth, here they just feel lazily forced in to stall the pacing of the series and drag out the episode count to keep the series from catching up to the manga. That may have been the intention with the Dragon Ball fillers as well, but whereas those ones felt like the writers were still trying to maintain the quality of the story-telling, here it just felt like they didn't care much at all. That said, its just my opinion, of course.
Eh, it's true they slow the pacing, but I never cared with them because I enjoy these episodes regardless.
I like Pendulum Room Peril because of it's creepy atmosphere. I also think it shows that the invasion of Saiyans is a big deal, placing pressure on the Z fighters to get stronger, and I attribute the experience as to how they were able to improve so well in the anime version (whereas their surge in power in the manga didn't really feel authentic to me because I never got the sense they understood what was at stake).
The Arlia episode is really funny to me. Vegeta and Nappa crash land on a planet full of bug people, and there's some whole love-story/revolution thing at play that they are completely apathetic about, yet they eventually end up becoming heroes by killing a giant bug monster, and then blow the planet up just for kicks. It's just a fun episode, but it also shows that these guys are dangerous (they are the first villains we see blowing up an entire planet, after all). Like Pendulum, I feel it built up their arrival on Earth as more of a big deal than in the manga.
I found the Goz and Mez and Princess Snake episodes amusing. I like that in the anime Goku has some misadventures on Snake Road before getting to King Kai's planet, because the extended journey made finally getting there feel like an actual accomplishment for him, where in the manga he just did it.
There are only three scenes involving Launch, and they are all really short. I just found Launch's obsession with Tien Shinhan hillarious, although the scenes themselves dont add anything to the story. The last scene with Launch during the Goku/Vegeta fight is pointless, but it happens at the start of an episode and seques well back into the actual fight, so I never minded it.
To be honest, I didn't realize Gregory was filler until I read the manga. The task of smacking him with the mallet seemed like a natural progression of Goku's speed and strength training to me. That's probably why I've never minded it.
Nappa destroying shit was fun to watch. It doesn't serve any purpose at all, but, I dunno, I liked watching it.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
QuoteWhen Goku left the hospital to go train because he was worried about the safety of the others.
Captain Ginyu switching bodies with Bulma.
Scenes involving Imperfect Cell hunting humans for energy while the Z fighters try to stop him.
The scene where Hercule pulled three buses behind him at a demonstration.
Once again, these fillers fall into the above category that I just don't like, but they didn't bother me as much since I merely only liked the arcs that they were adapting, whereas I downright loved the Saiyan arc, so those fillers hurt more than these ones, for me.
Again, I understand where you are coming from. But I've enjoyed these scenes despite their frivolousness.
Goku leaving the hospital to try and train again, even though he is severly injured, was a pretty emotional scene to me as a kid. Mainly because it shows how dedicated Goku is to his friends, that he wants to get to them as fast as possible, and stronger than before to face enemies more dangerous than Vegeta. For me, it made his recovery feel like a moment of victory.
Captain Ginyu switching bodies with Bulma goes nowhere, but I like it just because frog Ginyu and frog Bulma have funny moments. Plus, I just like Captain Ginyu, so there's some personal bias on my part. :P
Imperfect Cell hunting humans led to some pretty cool scenes. I particularily enjoy the one where he was stalking a mother and her daughter in a creepy mirror maze.
Hercule pulling three buses behind him ends up being a fun introduction to his character, even though it isn't necessary.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
QuoteSome of the scenes that show Bulma and company hunting for the Dragonballs to revive the people Vegeta killed.
Once again, this is among the ones I don't care for.
To be honest, I really only like one of these scenes, where Master Roshi ends up doing something useful for the first time in all of
Dragonball Z, while still managing to be comedy relief. It's not important in the least, but it's a humorous scene and I enjoyed it. That's all there is to it.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
QuoteMost of the extra scenes showing other characters donating energy/trying to get other people to donate energy to Goku when he is charging the Spirit Bomb to defeat Kid Buu.
I liked these scenes as well, but I wouldn't count them as filler "episodes," since they are just scenes interwoven into actual material adapted straight from the manga.
I never said they were filler episodes. I called them "scenes," didn't I. ;)
By extra scenes I meant the moments where people where hesistant to trust Vegeta's plea, when Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, and Gohan went to get other people to give their energy, Bora and Upa, Android 8 and Suno, Launch, Korin and Yajirobe, and Nam's appearences. All of it just works, and make the formation of the Spirit Bomb a really triumphant moment.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
QuoteThe episode where Majin Buu foils a Bank robbery.
This, along with the last few episodes of the series (which were all filler episodes until the final episode), were fairly amusing.
Kid Buu was defeated in episode 286, and the series ended at 291. Of the five episodes after Kid Buu's defeat, only episode 288 was complete filler (287, the Buu one, has some canon material at the beginning and 289-291 had material from the manga's final chapters). I agree episode 288 is a good wrap up episode, from what I remember, featuring pretty much the entire cast and all. But Buu's episode is just hillarious to me, but I found Buu in general to be extremely likeable and funny anyway, so again I like that episode more out of personal bias more than anything. :P
Lol at EK not remembering Gohan and the dinosaur. That's like the shows most iconic filler.
I hate the Saiyaman episodes.
All this Dragonball filler talk makes me want to watch the show now.
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 16, 2013, 09:16:31 PM
Lol at EK not remembering Gohan and the dinosaur. That's like the shows most iconic filler.
Uh, Yeah, it may disappoint you to know that people don't take pointless fillers as seriously as you do.
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 16, 2013, 09:16:31 PM
I hate the Saiyaman episodes.
Why? I think they are fairly fun episodes myself, especially the one where Gohan gets blackmailed to go on a date and the one where he helps Videl stop some Robbers (or something, I don't remember exactly).
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 10:04:35 PM
Uh, Yeah, it may disappoint you to know that people don't take pointless fillers as seriously as you do.
Well, to be honest, among DBZ fans it is a pretty iconic filler episode. But it's nothing to get worked up about.
To me, its still a filler episode. I hardly see anything iconic about it. Then again, to be honest, I don't really like DBZ as an anime adaptation, anymore. As I've stated before, I love the manga, but DBZ itself just doesn't really work for me, despite having some really memorable moments dispersed between a lot of other crap that drags the story out.
I really didn't like the Captain Ginyu switch because the Goku Vs. Frieza battle already was too long in the anime. This filler made it last even longer. The same reason I disliked Bulma's filler on Namek, the Namek arc is already incredibly long without these distractions to make it last longer. Between arc filler to expand on characters is fine, or even within an arc if it expands on the plot and motivations for the characters, but adding side stories that add up to nothing just kill the pacing.
QuoteThe scene where Hercule pulled three buses behind him at a demonstration.
This took a whole episode and stalled the plot dead cold.
This is why it is by far my least favorite filler in the series.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 16, 2013, 11:17:47 PM
I really didn't like the Captain Ginyu switch because the Goku Vs. Frieza battle already was too long in the anime. This filler made it last even longer. The same reason I disliked Bulma's filler on Namek, the Namek arc is already incredibly long without these distractions to make it last longer. Between arc filler to expand on characters is fine, or even within an arc if it expands on the plot and motivations for the characters, but adding side stories that add up to nothing just kill the pacing.
It's pointless and distracting, but I found the situation itself humorous, so I didn't mind. I do hate most of the Bulma filler on Namek though.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 16, 2013, 11:17:47 PM
This is why it is by far my least favorite filler in the series.
It took an entire episode? I remember it taking maybe three minutes, in an already filler episode. Maybe I should actually watch the Cell Games Arc again and refresh my memory.
Not so much that, but the one at the start of the Cell Games when they introduced his pupils took a whole episode. That scene might be in a different episode, but that episode really annoyed me when I first watched it. I didn't even need to bother tuning in.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 16, 2013, 11:34:46 PM
Not so much that, but the one at the start of the Cell Games when they introduced his pupils took a whole episode. That scene might be in a different episode, but that episode really annoyed me when I first watched it. I didn't even need to bother tuning in.
Oh...I know what you're talking about now. :D Yeah, no, the scene with Hercule pulling the buses happens in an earlier episode than that, I think in the one that also features Mercenary Tao's first appearance in DBZ. I hate the pupils episode too. >:(
Oh, then I don't really mind the scene. Throwaway scenes don't bother me so much. Throwaway plot-lines do.
But like Ensatsu-ken I'm also not the biggest fan of the Dragon Ball Z anime, I think it was better in manga form. The original series I can go with either. :)
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 16, 2013, 11:48:04 PM
But like Ensatsu-ken I'm also not the biggest fan of the Dragon Ball Z anime, I think it was better in manga form. The original series I can go with either. :)
I agree that
Dragonball Z is better in manga form as well.
Dragonball Z isn't something I care to re-watch nowadays, but I still like the story enough to sit through it sometimes, although I typically just watch Kai for all non-Buu saga arcs or the filler episodes from the Z anime I actually enjoy.
How can anyone not like Arlia?
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 17, 2013, 01:21:43 AM
How can anyone not like Arlia?
The coloring maybe? :D
I just found it to be a total waste of time. It had more impact in the manga when the first time we see Nappa and Vegeta's strength is in the initial encounter on earth.
In hindsight, the Arlia episode makes Vegeta's eventual redemption seem extremely questionable.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on March 17, 2013, 08:35:17 PM
In hindsight, the Arlia episode makes Vegeta's eventual redemption seem extremely questionable.
To be fair, it was already heavily implied in the manga that Vegeta was responsible for the deaths of countless innocent lives. Don't forget that he was one of Frieza's men, and his entire job was basically to wipe out entire planets to clear them for Frieza, or at the very least conquer them in his name. Hell, he was going to wipe out Earth anyways after he and Nappa had found all of the Dragon Balls. Really speaking, Toriyama just tends to ignore the moral implications of what his characters do, and doesn't really explore what Vegeta would truly have to atone for to get true redemption. Its just that circumstances make him side with Goku and the others, and after a while they just treat him like he's a friend, completely forgetting that he was essentially a cold-blooded murderer leading up to that point.
Its also the same as how Goku somehow gets married to Chichi and has 2 sons off-screen, yet the dude is clearly incapable of even conceiving any romantic feelings for anyone. In this regard, I once recall Toriyama stating in an interview the he admits to having no idea how to right romance, so he just ignore that aspect and made 2 time-skips to introduce each of Goku's sons.
To be fair, the result of Toriyama ignoring the elements of the story that he clearly knows he'd be no good at writing probably lead to the best possible results. He doesn't try to take the series in a deeper direction, and just lets it be light-hearted and entertaining most of the way through. The most depth that you ever really get in the entire series is the mentor-student relationship between Piccolo and Gohan, which admittedly is handled really well in this series. Other than that, Toriyama just skips all of these other moral issues and emotional stuff that other writers would try to include, and while I'm not saying that it makes him a great writer for doing that, it does make his series considerably more enjoyable when viewed for what it is. The thing is, many writers that also try to tackle those elements happen to suck at it too, and hence they drag their stories WAY down for it.
So, basically, in short: The latter parts of Dragon Ball can be really fucked up if you think about it too much. For me, I just enjoy the series for what it is. However when you see a lot of the more serious critics of Dragon Ball, they do bring up these issues (their favorite one to bring up is how terrible of a father Goku is), and while I think that they are taking things entirely too seriously, they aren't technically wrong about their implications, either.
Vegeta not going Super Saiyan probably would have helped as it seemed he was going down that road but nope the ego is back and we've learned nothing.
To be fair, by the end of the series he had completely stopped caring about trying to surpass Goku, and even had a big moment at the end while Goku was fighting Kid Buu, in which he smiled and admitted that he had a lot of admiration and respect for Goku, and finally "understood" who Goku was, and why he could never really surpass him.
He also showed that he came to really care about his family, even knocking out Trunks and telling Piccolo to take him away from the battlefield so that he wouldn't get caught in the destruction that would occur when Vegeta sacrificed his life to stall Buu.
When you think about it, both he and Piccolo (characters that started out as complete villains) go through more development than any single other character in the entire series.
You're right, I just don't like a lot of things in the Cell arc. The best parts by far were Future Trunks and Android 16.
Though you're right, there was more character development in the original series with characters like Krillin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and the gang all changing from their original selves. It wasn't huge or anything, but it was noticeable.
So, apparently Birusu can kick people's asses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5pH-VfEw7w) with chopsticks. My interest in this movie has now peaked up a few more notches.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 17, 2013, 09:42:25 PM
To be fair, by the end of the series he had completely stopped caring about trying to surpass Goku, and even had a big moment at the end while Goku was fighting Kid Buu, in which he smiled and admitted that he had a lot of admiration and respect for Goku, and finally "understood" who Goku was, and why he could never really surpass him.
He also showed that he came to really care about his family, even knocking out Trunks and telling Piccolo to take him away from the battlefield so that he wouldn't get caught in the destruction that would occur when Vegeta sacrificed his life to stall Buu.
When you think about it, both he and Piccolo (characters that started out as complete villains) go through more development than any single other character in the entire series.
Interesting. I may have to actually watch the end of the Buu saga and all I missed. My favorite conversation between Vegeta and Goku is at the end of Fusion Reborn
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 17, 2013, 10:41:31 PM
So, apparently Birusu can kick people's asses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5pH-VfEw7w) with chopsticks. My interest in this movie has now peaked up a few more notches.
Well there's a pleasant surprise; Tien's there, and even takes part.
Always hated how underused the original Z Fighters were as the series went on. This is still clearly Goku's fight, but it'd be nice if the others actually did
something for a change.
Whatever happens, I am PRAYING that this movie doesn't end with Goku turning into a Super Saiyan God and then defeating Birusu in one single attack. Its like how in every DBZ movie, Goku will power-up in some way at the end and then you're pumped to see him take on the ultimate bad guy for an awesome fight....and then he kills him instantly. The biggest tease was in Fusion Reborn, in which we only get to see the awesomeness of Gogeta at the end of the movie....for like 5 seconds, and then the bad guy is dead. I'll be so pissed if Battle of Gods pulls that crap as well.
And here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGzxyHUGQKg) is yet another clip of the movie. This time we get a look at the first fight of the movie, which is basically just Birusu making quick work of SSJ3 Goku.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 20, 2013, 06:37:25 PM
Whatever happens, I am PRAYING that this movie doesn't end with Goku turning into a Super Saiyan God and then defeating Birusu in one single attack. Its like how in every DBZ movie, Goku will power-up in some way at the end and then you're pumped to see him take on the ultimate bad guy for an awesome fight....and then he kills him instantly. The biggest tease was in Fusion Reborn, in which we only get to see the awesomeness of Gogeta at the end of the movie....for like 5 seconds, and then the bad guy is dead. I'll be so pissed if Battle of Gods pulls that crap as well.
You shouldn't get your hopes up. This is a
Dragonball Z movie we're talking about, after all. Even with Toryiama having written the story, I doubt we are going to see a satisfying battle between Super Saiyin God Goku and Birusu. Hopefully what we do get isn't as lame as Gogeta v. Janemba, at least.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 20, 2013, 10:10:06 PM
And here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGzxyHUGQKg) is yet another clip of the movie. This time we get a look at the first fight of the movie, which is basically just Birusu making quick work of SSJ3 Goku.
I dunno, man. Seems like they went out of their way to make Birusu
too strong. He barely even touches Goku at any point of that sequence, and still completely dominates him.
The animation is gorgeous, though; by far the best this series has ever looked. Still can't wait.
Quote from: Kiddington on March 20, 2013, 10:54:16 PM
I dunno, man. Seems like they went out of their way to make Birusu too strong. He barely even touches Goku at any point of that sequence, and still completely dominates him.
Well, isn't this how it's always been in a
Dragonball Z movie though? The villain is super uber strong and Goku can't win without some convenient power up or assistance? It's no suprise to me that Birusu dominates SSJ3 Goku early on in the film. I just hope the plot of the movie doesn't suffer as a result. It'd be a shame to waste all that gorgeous animation on a mediocre project.
Indeed, its easily the most budget that anything DBZ-related has ever had.
As for Birusu being overpowered, I feel like they are really trying to build him up to be a serious threat. I wouldn't mind him being so strong if it forced Goku to work with others again as a team to take him down (strategy over raw power). That's why I loved the Saiyan arc so much. Goku needed all the help he could get to stop Vegeta, even if the help was coming from his much weaker son and friends. It made the situation feel intense but not hopeless.
Are there any DBZ movies not centered on the Super Saiyans coming in to clean house? It's one thing I preferred about the earlier movies.
To be fair, its possible that the movie could find a use for the other characters in terms of using strategy to help out Goku in some way rather than just having Goku save the day by himself. Its....possible....but probably unlikely. :sweat:
Oh well, for once I'm going to say fuck it. I'm still excited to see this movie and hope that it turns out to be good in some way. From what I can tell, this movie isn't all about fighting and has a lot of Toriyama's trade-mark humor that is very reminiscent of early Dragon Ball, which if true is definitely a great element for the film to have. I'm actually glad that the film is trying to be true to the series, rather than trying to be some big, dark, epic affair that tries to treat the series like its something that it was clearly never meant to be. I don't know how to describe it, but I get a feeling that a lot of genuine heart and effort went into making this movie, from people who actually gave a shit about the quality of the original series in the first place. Of course, I could very well be dead wrong, but I hope that I'm not. I still want to see this movie, and apparently a recent interview with Toei reveals that they are trying to insure that this movie reaches the international market as soon as possible.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Fda0c1ef601fdac64525fee17afb95bbb%2Ftumblr_mjth4rGxos1r72ht7o1_500.gif&hash=7d23c6c1219aa1210251bf53273977c40ce66dfc)
I now realize that Bils is me if I was a DBZ villain.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 21, 2013, 01:21:24 PM
Are there any DBZ movies not centered on the Super Saiyans coming in to clean house? It's one thing I preferred about the earlier movies.
Maybe having more movies set in that period of the series (like, say, before the events on Namek) wouldn't be such a bad idea. I mean, none of them are canon anyway (Tree of Might is literally impossible to fit anywhere within the main timeline, even moreso than most), so how could it hurt?
It's DBZ. Sound logic was never one of its strong suits anyway. :P
So, I just finished re-watching Dragon Ball. It was around the last set of episodes, primarily with the battle with Piccolo Jr., that the bad habits which plagued Dragon Ball Z started to show up. That's when we had extended bouts of nothing happening except for character screaming, and things just felt clearly dragged out the slow down the story. Thankfully, this was already close to the end of the original Dragon Ball's run, so it doesn't really hamper its overall quality. Everything up to that point was quite good, including quite a bit of the filler material. Also, one thing that this series had which I realized that most shonen series lack which kept me watching so many episodes of the show at a time was that it was brilliant at keeping you interested. The series almost always left you off with a "hook" to keep you coming back for more, even at the end of story arcs, and if it didn't, it automatically dropped you into an interesting scenario with the next given episode (except for some filler episodes).
One prime example of that is how we transition right into the King Piccolo arc immediately after the conclusion of the 2nd Budokai tournament. It could have just been a run of the mill ending followed by some boring filler material (even in the manga, as a lot of authors seem to do that kind of stuff with shonen series in general, these days). However, the way things transitioned into the next conflict was brilliant. The tone of things get oddly ominous after the conclusion of the tournament. Goku realizes that he left his 4-star Dragon Ball back at the tournament building, and Krilling volunteers to go get it, but Goku gets a bad feeling that he can't explain. Then he gets a premonition and immediately rushes to the tournament grounds only to find Krillin, dead. Right off the bat, without any time to rest, we get a main character death introducing us to the next arc. That's what I mean about this series being perfect with providing you with a hook to keep you watching. It just leaves you eagerly anticipating what will happen next, which is something I find that most shonen series either don't or can't do, which is why there are so many that I can lose interest in so quickly.
Anyways, I'm now onto re-watching Dragon Ball Z Kai. While I still greatly prefer the manga even to this version of DBZ (though, Kai is much better than DBZ by default, but its still not what I consider to be a great adaptation of the manga more than it is a glorified director's cut of DBZ), I really have to give FUNimation credit for VASTLY improving on the voice acting for this show. If you go back and watch the old FUNimation English dub of DBZ, you can see how inexperienced the VAs in that are, as the voice-work sounds horrid, and the dialogue is equally atrocious. When they got around to dubbing DBZK, FUNimation clearly had a lot more talent to work with (including many of the voice actors who worked on DBZ having vastly improved their skills in the art), and this time they made a script that treated the series with the respect that it deserves, so as a result, we got a much more faithful English version of the story that accurately portrays the characters. The voice acting is especially great since I'm going into it right after having come off of Dragon Ball, which I also watched in English. To be honest, the only reason that I could tolerate it was admittedly because of nostalgia for the series, but the English voice acting for Dragon Ball is also actually pretty bad, and has not aged well. To be fair, though, it "mostly" had much more acceptable dialogue than DBZ did, though even that part of the series could be really off at time with FUNimation's dub of it.
Now, I'm actually going to go all of the way through DBZ Kai and finish it. I honestly never watched past the beginning of the Cell arc since I pretty much got bored with the story by that point, like I always do, but its been a long enough while that I could probably stand to watch through the entire Android and Cell sagas once again.
Quote from: Kiddington on March 25, 2013, 07:00:38 AM
Maybe having more movies set in that period of the series (like, say, before the events on Namek) wouldn't be such a bad idea. I mean, none of them are canon anyway (Tree of Might is literally impossible to fit anywhere within the main timeline, even moreso than most), so how could it hurt?
If we're talking about having movies at specific parts of the Dragon Ball time-line, than I have to ask: Am I the only one who would legitimately be interested in seeing more movies set in the time-line of old-school Dragon Ball, when Goku is just a kid? I can't help but feel a little disappointed with how that particular element of the series has long since been forgotten and downright shoved aside in favor of exploiting the endeavors of the latter portions of DB's time-line, with Goku being an adult. I like the latter stuff well enough, but I would like more adventure-based stories centered around the earlier parts of DB, which were a bit more comedic and light-hearted in tone, but still tons of fun and really entertaining. The last "Dragon Ball" movie we got was in 1996 after DBZ had finished airing, and that was an homage to the early parts of the series as it featured young Goku and sort of had its own re-telling of a mix of events that occurred in his adventures up to the Red Ribbon Army arc. But, after that, any other new projects related to this franchise were strictly focused on the DBZ half of things, and the early Dragon Ball stuff was mostly forgotten, aside from maybe a couple of video games.
Easy answer to that is that DBZ was the most popular rendition of the series (especially stateside), therefore it continues to get the most attention.
Early Dragon Ball hasn't been
totally forgotten (unlike GT... and rightfully so), at least as far as the video game side of things goes. But yeah, as far as movies go, it's pretty obvious the direction they prefer to take the series by this point, and that's a shame. I'd really like to see more of the original Z Fighters (Tien, Chiaotzu, Krillin, Yamcha, Roshi, and the like) get a chance to actually be useful again, and not just linger in the background for comic relief. Maybe having a couple of movies set in the DB portion of the timeline would remedy that, as these characters are all but useless by the time Z rolls around.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 28, 2013, 11:56:20 PM
Now, I'm actually going to go all of the way through DBZ Kai and finish it. I honestly never watched past the beginning of the Cell arc since I pretty much got bored with the story by that point, like I always do, but its been a long enough while that I could probably stand to watch through the entire Android and Cell sagas once again.
You know, as much as I love Kai and how much they fixed things, I still haven't gotten around to seeing how they handled the Cell arc. I tuned right out once Frieza wrapped up.
It goes without saying that that point of the series was my least favorite
everything. The filler was bad, the fights were equally bad, Cell himself is an extremely boring villain (as are the other Androids, for that matter)... even the Mr. Satan bits aren't nearly as offbeat and funny as they are in the Buu arc. The whole thing just bores the hell out of me every time I try to watch it. Granted, I haven't given the Kai alliteration a shot yet (need to get around to getting those last couple of DVD sets first), so maybe the improved voice acting will finally make it more watchable. :??:
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 29, 2013, 12:03:45 AM
If we're talking about having movies at specific parts of the Dragon Ball time-line, than I have to ask: Am I the only one who would legitimately be interested in seeing more movies set in the time-line of old-school Dragon Ball, when Goku is just a kid? I can't help but feel a little disappointed with how that particular element of the series has long since been forgotten and downright shoved aside in favor of exploiting the endeavors of the latter portions of DB's time-line, with Goku being an adult. I like the latter stuff well enough, but I would like more adventure-based stories centered around the earlier parts of DB, which were a bit more comedic and light-hearted in tone, but still tons of fun and really entertaining. The last "Dragon Ball" movie we got was in 1996 after DBZ had finished airing, and that was an homage to the early parts of the series as it featured young Goku and sort of had its own re-telling of a mix of events that occurred in his adventures up to the Red Ribbon Army arc. But, after that, any other new projects related to this franchise were strictly focused on the DBZ half of things, and the early Dragon Ball stuff was mostly forgotten, aside from maybe a couple of video games.
You're not the only one. I enjoy the original
Dragon Ball much more than
Dragon Ball Z. I know Z was the more popular, especially here in the States (Toonami basically made DBZ a household word in the US, although
Dragon Ball aired before it in syndication), but I've always preferred the lighter, more whimsical tone of DB overall to DBZ's nonstop "flex, charge up, fight, talk about fighting, train to fight and fight some more" formula. The original
Dragon Ball was fun, it didn't take itself too seriously and I appreciate that it tried to entertain you a bit rather than just being a cover-to-cover adrenaline rush. No offense to DBZ fans, though.
Yeah, my main problem with DBZ is that it just dragged things out way too much, and also lost a lot of the great sense of humor that was present in Dragon Ball. In the manga, you don't have any filler or long power-up scenes to drag things out, and there was still a lot of humor present there, which is why I prefer that greatly to the anime. The biggest example of that would be how the Majin Buu saga was handled in the anime, in which they played it completely seriously, whereas in the manga it was treated with more humor as it was supposed to be a throw-back to the old-school Dragon Ball stories as a neat way to finish off the series (especially in terms of going back to the theme of magic and mysticism over the more science-fiction oriented themes of DBZ).
But, even as far as the manga goes, I always did just prefer the more adventure-heavy aspects of the series over the fighting. The fights can be great when they are distilled to their purest form and you have no filler or drawn out power-up scenes in-between, but unfortunately DBZ has that in spades, and it just really killed any good moments that the series had, for me. Overall, I don't really hate DBZ, but I have to be honest when I say it just hasn't aged well. In contrast, I just re-watched all of the original Dragon Ball anime, and I thought it was still just as fun as it ever was. Its one of those series that feels almost timeless, to me.
So, the movie apparently made about $7 million on its first day of airing, which is pretty good for a Japan only premiere. Of course, that's only about half as much income as the last One Piece film made on its first day in Japanese theaters, however if Toei gets this movie released on DVD and Blu-ray internationally, then I have a feeling that this movie's income would multiply by quite a bit give that DBZ had far more international popularity than One Piece does.
So, I kind of caved in and skimmed through a summary of this movie. Its a Dragon Ball movie, so its not as though I was expecting there to be much of a plot to be spoiled, in the first place. For what its worth, this actually seems like something that Toriyama himself would write. As far as the summary goes, the characters seem spot-on, and if nothing else, the movie doesn't end how anyone would probably expect it to. For better or worse, though, it sort of sounds like it could be part of a bigger story, and it seems like its deliberately left open for a sequel (which if the movie is good, I'd be totally up for). I'm actually even more interested in seeing this movie itself, now.
So, I finished watching Kai. You know, watching the entire Cell saga again, I was reminded that I don't exactly hate all of it. I liked the beginning bits with how the plot was set-up, introducing Future Trunks and the whole part with the Androids was all good stuff. The build-up to Cell's appearance was also surprisingly well-done. I like how they made his presence very mysterious at first, with how they discovered an alternate time machine that had arrived years ago and had gathered moss, and found an egg in it and realized that some life-form had come out of it and melted through the glass. It felt a lot more like something out of an Alien movie than something from Dragon Ball, but it was still a cool and interesting way to introduce the new villain. Then Cell shows up....and basically the rest of the arc goes to shit. He's completely uninteresting as a villain given all of the build-up leading up to him. Really, the arc probably just would've been better if it had been about taking down the androids. But, at any rate, the arc did still have its moments. The scene in which Gohan is fending off cell with a one-handed Kamehame-ha wave and everyone else is trying to help him despite knowing that they are completely useless compared to any of the Saiyans is probably one of the most memorable scenes from the entire series. I also like how Future Trunks gets closure to his story-line in which he travels back to his dark future and ends up taking out both of the Androids along with Cell. Other than that, though, the entire arc felt like a chore to watch, even in Kai's condensed version of it. Hell, I still felt that things were really dragged out, and even this version of the anime had way too many power-up scenes and there were entire episodes where barely anything happened. It makes me wonder how I even managed to stomach watching the whole thing when the original anime was airing back on Toonami, and I had to watch everything at an even slower pace.
My other major problem with this arc is with Goku's character. Up until this point in the series, I had always considered Goku to be a fairly likable character, even given some of his more questionable choices in the Namek saga. However....the dude was a complete dick in this entire arc for no reason. To be fair, the other characters really point out how ridiculous he acts in this arc, but Piccolo nailed it about how wreckless it was for Goku to just throwing Gohan out there to fight against Cell, when he didn't understand that Gohan isn't like him and wouldn't behave like him, hence why he didn't immediately get angry enough to fight Cell at his full power, and a sacrifice had to be made in the form of Cell killing off Android 16, and later on Goku when he initiated his self-destruct function.
At any rate, things went back to the way they should be in the Buu arc, but the anime completely botched that up (it really is a good arc in the manga, though). Hopefully the "Kai" version of that arc which they are supposedly making turns out to alleviate the problems with the DBZ version of it, but somehow I doubt it.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F8ca48e4975bc6d9f7a9407b311f1f9a0%2Ftumblr_mlhwfni0J21rgrtmuo1_500.jpg&hash=dc17765cc5ca16bd69865438885f4357247c6d1a)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on April 20, 2013, 12:30:32 AM
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F8ca48e4975bc6d9f7a9407b311f1f9a0%2Ftumblr_mlhwfni0J21rgrtmuo1_500.jpg&hash=dc17765cc5ca16bd69865438885f4357247c6d1a)
That's funny, because it's true! >_<
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on April 20, 2013, 12:30:32 AM
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F8ca48e4975bc6d9f7a9407b311f1f9a0%2Ftumblr_mlhwfni0J21rgrtmuo1_500.jpg&hash=dc17765cc5ca16bd69865438885f4357247c6d1a)
While they did get married, how do we know for sure that Gohan was her first time... :>
Just finished up the Cell saga on Kai.
Sooooooooooooo much better. Just... literally everything (except maybe the score). No more powering up for 10 episodes on end (seriously, Cell was even worse than Namek when it came to that), voice acting and writing that isn't comically bad all around... good work FUNi. I tip my hat to you for making what was probably my least favorite portion of the original series not only watchable, but dare I say enjoyable. I especially love some of the lines they gave Mr. Satan this time around. Seriously, he made a POKEMON reference. Too perfect.
Now let's get to Buu one of these days kthx.
Quote from: Kiddington on April 22, 2013, 11:42:34 PM
Just finished up the Cell saga on Kai.
Sooooooooooooo much better. Just... literally everything (except maybe the score). No more powering up for 10 episodes on end (seriously, Cell was even worse than Namek when it came to that), voice acting and writing that isn't comically bad all around... good work FUNi. I tip my hat to you for making what was probably my least favorite portion of the original series not only watchable, but dare I say enjoyable. I especially love some of the lines they gave Mr. Satan this time around. Seriously, he made a POKEMON reference. Too perfect.
I agree that the Cell arc was better in this iteration of the anime....but its still by far the weakest arc in the series, IMO. The power-ups were still pretty long-winded and plentiful, and there were still so many long and drawn-out moments despite Toei cutting out so much other stuff. If even the Kai version was this slow-paced, I shudder to wonder how I even managed to tolerate watching through that entire arc back when DBZ aired on Toonami in the first place.
I watched a clip of it on YouTube... did they change Cell's voice? It sounds more generic. I liked the ham-tasticness of the original.
And I still can't stand the original music. :joy:
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 23, 2013, 12:34:34 AM
Quote from: Kiddington on April 22, 2013, 11:42:34 PM
Just finished up the Cell saga on Kai.
Sooooooooooooo much better. Just... literally everything (except maybe the score). No more powering up for 10 episodes on end (seriously, Cell was even worse than Namek when it came to that), voice acting and writing that isn't comically bad all around... good work FUNi. I tip my hat to you for making what was probably my least favorite portion of the original series not only watchable, but dare I say enjoyable. I especially love some of the lines they gave Mr. Satan this time around. Seriously, he made a POKEMON reference. Too perfect.
I agree that the Cell arc was better in this iteration of the anime....but its still by far the weakest arc in the series, IMO. The power-ups were still pretty long-winded and plentiful, and there were still so many long and drawn-out moments despite Toei cutting out so much other stuff. If even the Kai version was this slow-paced, I shudder to wonder how I even managed to tolerate watching through that entire arc back when DBZ aired on Toonami in the first place.
Yeah, it's still my least favorite era of the series, but at least it's watchable now.
Cell is still a generally uninteresting villain for the most part (his first two forms are just fucking weird and literally nothing else stands out), but Perfect Cell actually has some pretty good one-liners, and thankfully FUNi did away with all of that creepy, awkward sexual tension between him and Android 16 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCo2vWIf0z0). Just amazes me how much better the dub is this time around.
Looking at it now, I don't even think I could stomach the original version of Z. There's just... so much crap to siphon through. Buu filler was never really that bad thankfully, so I can still watch it without or without Kai, but the first three major sagas (Saiyan, and especially Namek and Cell)... ugh.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 23, 2013, 12:49:29 AM
I watched a clip of it on YouTube... did they change Cell's voice? It sounds more generic. I liked the ham-tasticness of the original.
Nope, still voiced by Dameon Clarke. It's just that he, along with essentially everyone else at FUNi, actually sounds like they know what they're doing now, and aren't rookies to voice acting anymore.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 23, 2013, 12:49:29 AM
And I still can't stand the original music. :joy:
Now this, I can agree with. Kikuchi's stuff just doesn't stack up in Z. Definitely in the original series, but does nothing for me here.
Just imagine how great this would be - better voice acting, no filler - but with Faulconer's score (or hell, even Yamamoto's; some of those ripped off pieces aren't half bad). Only a perfect world.
It is still Clarke, eh? Alright. The clip I watched just made him sound less boisterous in his speech.
"Chanting a little prayer before you DIIIIEEE?" God, I loved how over the top some of his lines were when I was a kid.
At (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXnuB9Z-jeo) least (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Y5VduWErLRA) Ocean (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLNM1nqMg5k) Cell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6YyT3RnW44) is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU76d8eIMfY) a (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeLDEOdMslw) thing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWNxm69r3tM) of (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j20aBFJ7wBo) the (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igNvzPLJSgo) past. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPP7G_1HsPI)
"Thank you Goku I will TAKE THIS BEAN WITHOUT HESSSSSITATION!"
Eh, it's so campy.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on April 23, 2013, 01:05:20 AM
At (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXnuB9Z-jeo) least (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Y5VduWErLRA) Ocean (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLNM1nqMg5k) Cell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6YyT3RnW44) is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU76d8eIMfY) a (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeLDEOdMslw) thing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWNxm69r3tM) of (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j20aBFJ7wBo) the (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igNvzPLJSgo) past. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPP7G_1HsPI)
I hate the Ocean Dub so much.
The appeal, the fanbase, the fact that it's getting a fucking DVD release in 2013... all of it is just completely lost on me.
Only the PRINCE OF SAIYAAAAANS can achieve true camp!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FIjaHMZRAc)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on April 23, 2013, 01:10:09 AM
Only the PRINCE OF SAIYAAAAANS can achieve true camp!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FIjaHMZRAc)
...and yet, oddly... this only makes me want to see the movie that much more.
I'm not a fan of the original music, myself (I didn't hate it, I was just kind of indifferent to it), however I can say that I personally found most of Faulconer's music to be crap, if I were to be completely honest. The few tracks that were really good were also usually really badly misused in the old English dub, anyways.
Now, I did actually really like Kai's music, but then that turned out to be plagiarized and they went back to Kikuchi's score for most of the Cell saga, which was pretty bland sounding and it was really jarring to transition from Kai's score directly to the old-school soundtrack so abruptly, though its not like I would have liked Faulconer's soundtrack any better, so yeah, it was unfortunately a necessary evil.
Seriously, the Ocean Dub is one of the most hilarious translations this side of Guin Saga. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0j-GK4NW7M)
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 23, 2013, 01:12:02 AM
I'm not a fan of the original music, myself (I didn't hate it, I was just kind of indifferent to it), however I can say that I personally found most of Faulconer's music to be crap, if I were to be completely honest. The few tracks that were really good were also usually really badly misused in the old English dub, anyways.
Now, I did actually really like Kai's music, but then that turned out to be plagiarized and they went back to Kikuchi's score for most of the Cell saga, which was pretty bland sounding and it was really jarring to transition from Kai's score directly to the old-school soundtrack so abruptly, though its not like I would have liked Faulconer's soundtrack any better, so yeah, it was unfortunately a necessary evil.
You found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s2Ksz7rpck) to be crap?
:wth:
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on April 23, 2013, 01:14:25 AM
Seriously, the Ocean Dub is one of the most hilarious translations this side of Guin Saga. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0j-GK4NW7M)
:worship:
I said "most" of it, not everything. But even so....the SS3 tune sounds cool and all, but its also really shallow and repetitive to the point where when they tried to play it for 6 minutes straight during Goku's power-up, it did get kind of old, IMO. It sounds cool when its used in short bursts, like when they played it during the scene where Goku finally finishes off Kid Buu with the Spirit Bomb. But most of Faulconer's tracks are pretty bland for me, and just as unfitting for the series as Kikuchi's score, IMO. which is to say, a lot of it either sounds like generic electric guitar music (except its so clearly synthesized through a computer), or just generic cartoon music that isn't really memorable. There are some stand-out tracks, but most of it sounds like repetitive beats that are pretty bland to listen to for the most part. Like I said, I found Kai's music to be the perfect fit for the series, but unfortunately that music got cut when it turned out that a portion of it was plagiarized, which IMO is a real shame.
Well, at least we can both agree there; Kai's original score was really good. Especially this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=116d0OtMwRQ)
It's a shame things turned out the way they did; would've been nice to see how the original was handled during the Cell arc (seems like an awful lot of dead air with Kikuchi's score, from what I've noticed).
Quote from: Kiddington on April 23, 2013, 01:32:26 AM
Well, at least we can both agree there; Kai's original score was really good. Especially this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=116d0OtMwRQ)
It's a shame things turned out the way they did; would've been nice to see how the original was handled during the Cell arc (seems like an awful lot of dead air with Kikuchi's score, from what I've noticed).
Yeah, that was another thing that could have helped the Cell arc along a little more. Not much, mind you, but I would have liked to here Kai's music playing through that arc as well. It certainly would have been a lot more fun to listen to during the numerous power-up scenes than Kikuchi's forgettable music, especially with a track like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAPl0bsAGyc).
Also, I just realized that its a damn good thing that we're not posting any of these opinions on Toonzone. I can only imagine just how much JTP would be bitching right now if we did post there. For what its worth, I liked the original Dragon Ball's music, but in DBZ its like the score retained the same tone but also became extremely bland in the process.
He's a loyalist to practically everything about the original version of Z to an extreme degree, right down to the filler. IIRC he didn't like Yamamoto's score either, and hey, that was the quote unquote "original", straight from Japan as well.
...but whatever. That guy... he's more than a few things that are best left unsaid.
I swear, he honestly believes that the original Dragon Ball Z is perfect as long as you watch it in Japanese. Like none of its faults exist, and that the extended power-up scenes and filler are all infallible. That guy just drives me up the wall.
BTW, Here are some more of my favorite Kai tracks while I'm at it:
Heroic Face Off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJXkqfGGgJg)
One Hit To Victory (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhqsTy0W9sk)
The Victor's Dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtevIlwMPEk)
Guy refused to watch Cowboy Bebop until somebody ponied up a sub version. That's true purism right there.
Drinking a little too much of that VegettoEX Kool-Aid.
Really, anyone from Daizenshuu/Kanzenshuu/whatever they call themselves nowadays is basically weeabooism personified.
To be fair, though, at least Kanzenshuu can provide us with some useful and interesting information about the Dragon Ball franchise, including translated interviews for the Battle of Gods movie that we won't be getting for a while. That said, Paschal doesn't contribute shit. He just likes to bitch and moan all in the name of him being a "true" Dragon Ball fan.
Also, the Daizenshuu is a collection of official data/guide books about the Dragon Ball Universe. I'm not exactly sure that people behind producing those books could qualify as weaboos, since they were made right in Japan by Japanese people, themselves. :P
Now let's not be hasty. Also, I remember reading a rather interesting essay on DBAF on Daizenshuu. Quite a lot of information for a show that doesn't even exist.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 23, 2013, 01:59:20 AM
Also, the Daizenshuu is a collection of official data/guide books about the Dragon Ball Universe. I'm not exactly sure that people behind producing those books could qualify as weaboos exactly, since they were made right in Japan by Japanese people, themselves. :P
Daizenshuu EX is what I meant; IE what Kanzenshuu used to be known as.
I'm not talking about the "official" Daizenshuu.
Oh, I see. I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the guide books. I never actually realized that Kanzenshuu used to be called something else. As for the DBAF thing, I think that they've probably gotten a lot better about checking their sources since then, though that's not to say that they are infallible. Either way, though, I don't really know anyone from that site, and only occasionally read some of their news articles, so I can't common on that site or its authors, myself.
But, moving the subject away from that person who I shall no longer name on this site, I really can't wait for the Buu arc to get the Kai treatment. It really is a terrific arc in the manga that was just poorly mishandled in the anime. The main draw of it, to me, is how it basically tries to combine the best of both worlds, in that it takes elements that we became familiar with in DBZ, while also tonally bringing the series back to its roots somewhat with tons of humor and gags resembling what we saw in early Dragon Ball stories. Its not absolutely perfect at it (if it were, it could have been my favorite arc), but it is really entertaining, through and through. Unfortunately by the time the original DBZ got to it, tons of mid-arc filler and long-extended power-ups were the norm by that point. How the anime retained its popularity through the Cell and Buu saga completely escapes my comprehension.
Last update I seen about Buu was that it was going to be around 66-70 episodes in length. Not sure how verified any of this was, just something I came across.
Still no word on when it'll actually make it over, though. I'm thinking at this point (with the last updates being in November), we might not get it until 2014.
Quote from: Kiddington on April 23, 2013, 12:58:11 AM
Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 23, 2013, 12:49:29 AM
I watched a clip of it on YouTube... did they change Cell's voice? It sounds more generic. I liked the ham-tasticness of the original.
Nope, still voiced by Dameon Clarke. It's just that he, along with essentially everyone else at FUNi, actually sounds like they know what they're doing now, and aren't rookies to voice acting anymore.
Dameon Clarke is a master. Handsome Jack baby!
So, Kyle Hebert has recently confirmed (https://twitter.com/kylehebert/status/326843109084377088) that he will be reprising his role of teenage Gohan in the Majin Buu arc of DBZ Kai.
It's so easy to forget just how many characters were once considered villains in the whole grand scheme of things; Oolong, Yamcha, Puar, Tien, Chiaotzu, Baba, Piccolo... I mean seriously. Chiaotzu.
Watching the original series again is a trip.
Eh, I think Baba is a stretch. She never really directly opposed the main characters. They just wanted her to find the location of the last Dragon Ball, and since they didn't have the means to pay her, she offered them to challenger her best fighters instead. Its not like she forced any opposition on them, so I wouldn't see her as a villain. She was just being a businesswoman.
As for everyone else, though, yeah, its funny to think of how they were all once villains, and how many of them were even a match for Goku at one point (some were even a little stronger than him when he first fought them). Its especially hilarious when you realize that not only did they all eventually become his allies, but they also even became complete jokes in comparison to him. It also kind of ticks me off because many of them were fun characters who deserved better, but there is also something undeniably amusing about that whole situation, which is why its probably the single element of DBZ that's the most prone to being made fun of and parodied more than anything else.
I dunno; she did put the characters in extreme harms way more than a few times (the fights with Bandages and Spike could have easily resulted in either Yamcha or Goku's death), and she just kinda rubbed me as having malicious intent when dealing with them all. But yeah, overall you're probably right. She's certainly the least ill-willed of that aforementioned group.
The two that always get me when I rewatch is Tien and Chiaotzu, though. Especially Chiaotzu; he's so menacing in his early appearances and fight with Krillin, only to be a cowardly and completely laughable fighter later in the series. That's a shame too, because his psychic powers could've easily been utilized a lot better.
Bumping this up to to say I just watched Battle of Gods tonight. I was able to track down a subbed version and, I gotta say, I loved it. I didn't really know what to expect going in, but I really liked it a lot. It was much more Dragon Ball than it was Dragon Ball Z, with a lot of comedy and lighthearted moments with great character interaction. The fight scenes that were there were also very well done. It's my understanding that Akira Toriyama was actually deeply involved with the making of this movie, which might explain why it was so enjoyable. It also had an ending that I wasn't expecting.
It's a fun movie. Anyone expecting some big epic adventure or fighting movie from this will be disappointed. If you like the manga, and specifically early Dragon Ball with Toriyama's style of humor, then I think that you'll find this movie to be a fun watch.
We finally have some news on when DBZ Kai is coming back.... in Japan!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bgp9HynCcAAviXC.jpg)
April 6th at 9 AM is when Kai is coming back.
So much for producing this just for an international release. :>
Anyway, from what I've heard this'll be like 50 episodes, which isn't even half cut down from how long the arc was in Z. I doubt it'll be that much of an improvement, but whenever it gets dubbed I'll probably check it out since I do like this saga and FUNi'll do a better job with it this time.
EDIT: Just heard that Toei has actually been pacing the current arc of Toriko incredibly quickly. It seems that they WILL finish "part 1" of the series before it ends after all. Interesting. Maybe I'll check out how they handled the arc sometime in the summer, to see if they did a good job with it or not. With 4 chapters an episode pacing even they can't fuck it up...I hope...
Trailer for the return of Dragon Ball Kai. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXVcOKppJZE)
I actually hope that they keep at least a little of the Saiyaman filler in this series.i actually mind of enjoyed that portion of the original anime.
They kind of have to, since they integrated canon and filler together in those episodes. Saiyaman saving the bus is going to need to be kept since that's when he officially debuts and Videl meets him in the anime, not to mention entire story about the kidnapped dinosaur is going to have to be kept, since Videl realizes Saiyaman's identity during that episode.
Wow, the new opening for Kai sucks. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Haof_-Rzc&feature=youtu.be&a) It's easily the most boring opening for the Dragon Ball anime franchise to date.
It's Toei, so I'm not surprised.
Honestly, the only 2 DB openings that I liked were the opening theme for DB and the 1st one for Z (Japanese). None of the other ones ever did it for me, and also failed to fit the tone of the series, IMO.
Eh, the second Toriko opening and the Matsutaro opening are pretty good, and I do like the recent One Piece one even if it's a bit generic, so they don't completely suck at making openings these days, imo.
I personally enjoy all of the japanese Dragon Ball anime openings, myself. Of them, the one I felt most didn't "fit" the series was "Cha La Head Cha La," honestly. Granted, I do think it works for the early parts of Z, but for the Namek arc and beyond I thought it kind of felt out of place. I think "Dragon Soul" works better for the tone of the whole Z portion of the series, myself.
No, Cha La worked fine for Namek and Beyond. Even at its most serious, DB was still a relatively light-hearted and fun series. Cha La captured that sort of theme just fine, and if anything, Namek had more fun adventure elements than the Saiyan arc (what with Bulma, Gohan, and Krillin's escapades), and the Buu arc was a throw-back to early DB. Cell was maybe the only arc where you could make the argument that it didn't fit.
However, the opening for the Buu arc, "We Gotta Power," definitely didn't fit the tone of that arc at all (but considering how Toei took it more seriously than the manga did, then perhaps it fit "their version" of the arc). That, and the song sounded like shit, IMO.
Mmm, I dunno, I personally don't feel so. For me, "Cha La" felt too slow for the high-octane battles of the Namek arc. "Makufushigi Adventure" works a lot for me because it covers the range of what happens in all of the first anime, from the light-hearted adventure stuff of Pilaf to the more serious elements in the 22nd Budokai and the King Piccolo. I feel that "Cha La" worked for early Z because of the focus on everyone training and the misadventures of Gohan during his training and whatnot, but I don't feel it has the range to reflect the more serious elements of the story once the group arrives on Namek.
I've always liked "We Gotta Power," but I'll agree that I always found it to fit the anime version of the Buu arc, which is focused on the power battle aspect of the arc, rather than the manga's version.
Quote from: Cartoon X on April 05, 2014, 08:44:37 PM
Mmm, I dunno, I personally don't feel so. For me, "Cha La" felt too slow for the high-octane battles of the Namek arc. "Makufushigi Adventure" works a lot for me because it covers the range of what happens in all of the first anime, from the light-hearted adventure stuff of Pilaf to the more serious elements in the 22nd Budokai and the Kind Piccolo. I feel that "Cha La" worked for early Z because of the focus on everyone training and the misadventures of Gohan during his training and whatnot, but I don't feel it has the range to reflect the more serious elements of the story once the group arrives on Namek.
I've always liked "We Gotta Power," but I'll agree that I always found it to fit the anime version of the Buu arc, which is focused on the power battle aspect of the arc, rather than the manga's version.
Slow has nothing to do with it, CX. You seem to forget that DBZ is NOT just about high-octane battles. The Namek arc wasn't even THAT action heavy until it's second half. What about all of that stuff with the cat and mouse dragon ball hunt between Vegeta and Frieza's forces, not to mention how Gohan and Krillin had to rely on their wits to survive rather than their fighting prowess. All of those are adventure elements which take up a huge portion of the arc, and aren't dissimilar to what you'd expect from DB during Goku's youthful days. Cha La fit perfectly fine.
Those elements are more intense life and death struggles than really "adventurous" stuff to me. Goku's youthful adventures didn't really have the sense of peril and danger that stuff does to me. The song is kind of relaxed in nature, and lyrically, it's kind of too light-hearted with lines like "I?d rather have my head be empty, so I can stuff it with dreams!" and "No matter what happens, I feel like it?s no big deal!," so...I dunno, it doesn't really capture the "oh shit" danger kind of stuff in the arc to me.
This discussion isn't going to go anywhere, so I'll stop here. I will say that, looking at the lyrics again, I do think "Cha La" does fit the series as a whole, but for the specific parts it covers, and the anime's version of the parts it covers, I do think there's a bit of a tonal disconnect. I actually think "Cha La" works better for early Dragon Ball and the Buu arc than the Namek arc. But, I do like the song, so at least we can agree it's a good 'un.
Quote from: Cartoon X on April 05, 2014, 09:13:11 PM
Those elements are more intense life and death struggles than really "adventurous" stuff to me. Goku's youthful adventures didn't really have the sense of peril and danger that stuff does to me.
Goku and friends were in life and death situations all the time, and the story wasn't always comical. Stuff like Tao killing Uppa's father and almost all of the King Piccolo arc were more serious, yet it didn't make the opening theme from being any less fitting for the series.
You seem to imply by intensity that the Namek arc had adventure elements without any humor to go along with it, yet the arc is full of humor, and I don't just mean a little here or there. Comic relief is in plentiful supply throughout most of the arc, at least until they start fighting Frieza's himself. The Ginyu Force may be a legitimate threat, but they are also a group of baboons who can be hard to take seriously when they aren't fighting. Not to mention all of Frieza's henchmen's names are essentially a pun of something or the other. Also there are plenty of light-hearted moments between Gohan, Krillin, Dende, and The Elder Namekian in this arc. Yes, there are serious things going on too, like all of Namek being slaughtered, but how is that any different from how the Saiyan arc literally had previous main characters from DB getting killed off one by one? That arc also had more serious elements to it, and arguably even less humor dispersed throughout it than Namek. Yet somehow Cha La fit that and not Namek, according to you.
QuoteThe song is kind of relaxed in nature
It is not relaxed. It's energetic as hell. The singer sings in a tone and pitch that makes it sound like he's talking about something big that's going to happen.
Quoteand lyrically, it's kind of too light-hearted with lines like "I?d rather have my head be empty, so I can stuff it with dreams!" and "No matter what happens, I feel like it?s no big deal!," so...I dunno, it doesn't really capture the "oh shit" danger kind of stuff in the arc to me.
First of all, I wouldn't recommend relying on any English translations of any foreign songs. Direct translations of a show or movie are one thing, but for a song where words don't necessarily have their normal implications and may be intended to be used in more artistic or abstract ways, you really can't take the lyrics at face value, especially when they are translated, since their intended meaning can be lost far too easily. Secondly, there are shit-ton of anime with opening songs that have seemingly light-hearted lyrics like that which have nothing to do with the anime that they are used for, yet the tone of the song fits the nature of the series just fine. If you were going by that logic, then Cha La wouldn't even fit the Saiyan arc or early DB, and additionally you would have to say that most opening songs to shounen series and other anime don't fit those anime based on lyrics. That of course includes the other DB opening themes. So, you may want to reconsider that point if you mean to stay consistent with it.
Anyways, I'll drop the topic as well....
as long as we can agree that my opinion is the only "correct one" :humhumhum:
So, at least episode 1 (or I guess 99), of this continuation kept in line with the humorous nature of the Buu arc. I doubt that it'll stay that way for long, though.
By the way, while the new OP is nothing special, I personally dig the ending theme for this series.
I still miss the old DBK musical score. Yes, I know it was plagiarized, but it sounded damn good, IMO, and I much prefer it to the well composed yet unfittingly slow Kikuchi score as well as the shallow Faulconer score. The music in this continuation is really forgettable, so far.
So, I guess FUNimation uploaded this weird thing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlRqIFKBgBQ) on their website a long time ago, and now there's video set to it. Yay! :happytime:
FUNimation has licensed Dragon Ball Z: Battle of the Gods (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUJHZekAz3Q). It will be getting a theatrical release in select theaters from August 5th through 9th. (http://dragonballz.com/battleofgods/)
I thought Battle of Gods was a great film, really hearkening back to the feeling of Dragon Ball more so than DBZ. If it opens in any theaters near me I will go see it for sure!
Theatrical trailer for the english release of Battle of the Gods. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp60avoyT9k)
In preparation for the U.S. theatrical release of Battle of the Gods, FUNi has been uploading short retrospectives on how the series was brought over to the States on Youtube. Though not too detailed, they are nice watches and share some information that you might not know. Here are (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vltggECvvuI) the first two videos. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNDjIkmWKe0)
A new Dragon Ball film is in production and will come out next spring! (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-07-15/dragon-ball-z-gets-new-2015-film-by-creator-toriyama/.76681) It will be a direct sequel to Battle of the Gods! Toriyama promises it will be "utterly funny," and get this, Torishima has even praised him on the work he's been doing on the film. TORISHIMA PRAISED TORIYAMA ON HIS WORK. Torishima, the guy famous for being hard to please, praised Toriyama's work.
How can I not be excited for this film after hearing all of this? I am so pumped! Toriyama, don't let me down! :shakeshakeshake:
New dub clips for Battle of the Gods. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-07-17/dragon-ball-z-battle-of-gods-english-dub-clips-streamed/.76755)
New clip from the Battle of the Gods dub, featuring Beerus vs. the Z-fighters! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCM8GFxIWXI)
Just watched Battle of the Gods. The theater was full, mostly people in their 20's-30's, but there were a few kids there too. Everyone was loving the movie beginning to end. There was a lot of laughter throughout, and everyone applauded at the end of it. I myself really appreciated the classic Toriyama humor pervading the entire thing. Now that is what I expect from a Dragon Ball movie. Infinitely better than any of the others made before. As far as the animation went, while it wasn't great, it was a lot better than I expected. I think the use of CG to move the backgrounds in 3-D was what made for some really cool looking moments, like when the battle moved into the city and then in the clouds later on. I also want to mention that Funi did a great job with the dub. They've come such a long way in the quality of their dubwork with this series, and especially after watching all the clips/interviews/stuff they've been putting up to hype this release you can tell they really love this franchise.
I can't wait for the new film next year. I have a feeling it'll be even better.
I can't recommend Battle of Gods enough, because it's like the best of both series in one package. It's lighthearted and not all fucking dark and brooding like most of DBZ was, and really plays out a lot more like a Dragon Ball episode with its tone (especially from the Pilaf gang, whom IMO stole the show in their scenes). The fight scenes are great as well though, which I why I think it represents the best of what both series have to offer. Beerus is a great villain too; he actually has a personality unlike a good lot of the stone-faced baddies the series would often trot out, and while he was a major threat, he could still mingle with the cast and actually do some interesting stuff other than simply shout threats at everyone and be boring as hell.
..........but yeah, I had a blast. It was cool to see that this series is still so popular after all these years; the theater here was completely packed, and as far as I can tell everyone loved it. If it's playing in your city, go see it. It's a lot of fun.
I wouldn't exactly call DBZ "dark and brooding" by any stretch. It was still a show with insanely over-the-top characters and fighting and had tons of comic relief. Also, the only villain that I ever found to be lacking in personality was Cell.
The only thing "dark and brooding" about DBZ was Faulconer's awful emorock ringtone replacement soundtrack.
Quote from: Lord Dalek on August 07, 2014, 03:23:53 PM
The only thing "dark and brooding" about DBZ was Faulconer's awful emorock ringtone replacement soundtrack.
Go to sleep.
Quote from: Rynnec on August 07, 2014, 04:45:21 PM
Quote from: Lord Dalek on August 07, 2014, 03:23:53 PM
The only thing "dark and brooding" about DBZ was Faulconer's awful emorock ringtone replacement soundtrack.
Go to sleep.
Awwww.... does somebody like bad Guilty Gear midis? :>
Quote from: Rynnec on August 07, 2014, 04:45:21 PM
Quote from: Lord Dalek on August 07, 2014, 03:23:53 PM
The only thing "dark and brooding" about DBZ was Faulconer's awful emorock ringtone replacement soundtrack.
Go to sleep.
You're absolutely right, Rynnec. What Lord Dalek said is far too offensive and out there. I mean, after all, I've heard ringtones that are WAY more interesting than Faulconer's monotonous emo-rock. Comparing the two is just flat-out insulting to ringtones. :>
Quote from: Lord Dalek on August 07, 2014, 05:03:23 PM
bad
QuoteGuilty Gear midis
This just flat-out doesn't make sense. Anything sounding even remotely close to Guilty Gear can't possibly be bad, and since my musical taste is automatically superior to anyone else's, that means my opinion is the only correct one. :>
Alright alright, poor choice of words, but you guys know what I mean; the series had a tendency to take itself wayyyyy too seriously more often than not. Other than the Buu saga, this was a problem throughout its run.
As an aside, the new movie made me wonder why we didn't get any Pilaf at all in the main storyline for Z. He was such a prominent (and quite frankly enjoyable) character in the original series, for him to not show up at any point until now is strange. I get that the focus was on more intimidating villains, but they could've worked him in there somehow.
Quote from: Kiddington on August 07, 2014, 11:46:08 PM
Alright alright, poor choice of words, but you guys know what I mean; the series had a tendency to take itself wayyyyy too seriously more often than not. Other than the Buu saga, this was a problem throughout its run.
I think that's more a fault of the anime than the manga. I certainly wouldn't say that the manga was ever taking itself TOO seriously. It had plenty of comic relief dispersed throughout (hell, almost every character name, even the villains, was a pun of something), and the tone was firmly tounge-in-cheek with a lot of scenes. I mean, it did have more serious moments than early Dragon Ball, for sure, but you can't tell me that something like the Namek arc was way too serious when it featured ridiculously over the top villains like the Ginyu Force (who literally played Rock-Paper-Scissors to see who would get to fight Vegeta, Gohan, and Krillin; and who had their own poses and theme song), or that the android saga was always too serious with all of the shenanigans that 17 and 18 went through when they were on that "road trip" on the way to finding Goku, or all of the stuff with Hercules in the Cell Games. Something like the Chapter Black arc of Yu Yu Hakusho is what comes to mind when I think of a super serious story arc in a shounen series. The closest that DBZ ever came to that was really only with the Saiyan arc, and even then, King Kai and Yajirobe's involvement brought much levity to the situation.
QuoteAs an aside, the new movie made me wonder why we didn't get any Pilaf at all in the main storyline for Z. He was such a prominent (and quite frankly enjoyable) character in the original series, for him to not show up at any point until now is strange. I get that the focus was on more intimidating villains, but they could've worked him in there somehow.
That was also more of an anime thing, and one thing that I really like about the Dragon Ball anime that was an improvement from the manga. In the manga, Pilaf didn't really appear for a long while outside of the first story arc. He only had a brief cameo, for the most part, when Goku needed to get the last Dragon Ball after BaBa located it, and then again in a few scenes in the King Piccolo arc since he and his minions helped to release him. In the anime, they added way more scenes with him in the Red Ribbon Army arc, making him feel more prominent than he really was. Since Toriyama never used him again in the manga after King Piccolo, and since the DBZ anime is where Toei went seriously downhill with adapting the series (IMO), naturally they never thought to bring him back again, despite being a fun villain, though to be fair, he really would not have fit in with the story of any of those arcs, anyways, whereas he actually had a reason to have additional scenes in the early parts of DB, so that it wouldn't be so jarring to just see him pop up suddenly when Goku needed to retrieve the last Dragon Ball again.
I also got to see Battle of Gods in theaters with a group of friends from work. I had already seen it previously fansubbed but I loved it even more seeing it this time around, as did all my friends and everyone in the theater. Easily the best DBZ movie by far containing a perfect amount of elements from both DB and DBZ.
FUNi did a fantastic job with the dub, too. I liked it even more so than the subbed version. I will pick this up without hesitation when we see a BD release in the states.
Pre-orders now available for Battle of Gods on BD http://shop.funimation.com/Shop/ShopProductDetail.ss?itemid=95175&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=DBZ_BOG&utm_source=Blog&utm_content=Home_Video_Announcement&utm_nooverride=1
Special features include:
Behind the Scenes: Battle of Voice Actors
The Voices of Dragon Ball Z: Unveiled
Textless Closing Song
U.S. Trailer
Trailers
want so much :swoon:
Glad they're getting it out so fast, I was hoping we'd get it before Christmas. Curious about the uncut version as well, looks to actually be quite a bit longer than what we've seen (about 20 or so minutes).
Are those extra scenes the ones that Toei specially added for the TV broadcast of BoG? That'd certainly be interesting to see, if that is the case.
Kai is getting an Ocean Group dub. (http://dragonblogz.com/dragon-ball-z-kai-ocean-dub-releasing-soon)
Scott McNeil as Piccolo again... :drool:
More information about the 2015
Dragon Ball Z movie has been revealed! (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-11-17/1st-key-visual-for-2015-dragon-ball-z-film-reveals-frieza/.81112) The movie is called "Fukkatsu no F" and is about the resurrection of Freeza! Here's the key visual and a plot summary.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn01.animenewsnetwork.com%2Fthumbnails%2Fmax500x500%2Fcms%2Fnews%2F81112%2F00dra2.jpg&hash=9a017dd8cca8539e80ed0f48a8ffbea556e1eef4)
QuoteAn Earth where peace has arrived. However, remnants of Frieza's army Sorbet and Tagoma (from the Japanese word for 'egg') arrive on the planet. Their goal is to revive Frieza with the dragon balls. Their dastardly wish is granted, the "F" that plans its revenge against the Saiyans is revived...!
This is pretty interesting. Obviously, the big question here is how this is going to work, considering Freeza is massively weaker than how the other characters in the series are by the end of it. Of course, Toriyama said before that this film will be "utterly funny," so in that case, I'm sure there are a few ways they can exploit him for humor, though I hope they will still keep him as a somewhat credible threat. Also, Beerus and Whis are going to be in this movie too, and it should be fun to see them again. I hope we see a trailer for it sometime soon.
I'd love to see more of Beerus's history with Freeza, which was hinted at in Battle of Gods.
While I'm totally up for a comedic Dragon Ball movie, I am hoping that they don't turn Freeza into TOO much of a joke, as he still deserves his status as one of Goku's greatest villains.
As for the new guys, I actually really like Sorbet's design, as it looks simple but very reminiscent of a classic Dragon Ball villain, such as Pilaf or Bobbidi, but Tagoma looks a bit too bland to me.
that's interesting. i assumed battle of gods would be the last dbz film for some years. frieza is easily the funniest dbz villain. hopefully toriyama makes him as funny as he was back then.
Okay, I'm getting tired of this.
Is Toriyama really that desperate for work? Can't he work on something else?
This franchise ended nearly 20 years ago. Is zombifying this series really necessary?
It had its time in the sun. The story is over. We've moved on. Leave it be.
you're joking? toriyama has barely done anything dbz related since the series ended. he has worked on a number of games and manga since then. plus i think he still makes money off of the db manga. he is neither desperate for money nor is dbz the only thing he does for work.
Quote from: Daikun on November 17, 2014, 12:57:27 PMOkay, I'm getting tired of this.
Is Toriyama really that desperate for work? Can't he work on something else?
This franchise ended nearly 20 years ago. Is zombifying this series really necessary?
It had its time in the sun. The story is over. We've moved on. Leave it be.
Toriyama literally didn't have any involvement with the series for over a decade after it ended. After that, he helped with character designs for the 2008 special, wrote the script for Battle of Gods which came out last year, and for this upcoming movie next year. That's 3 DB projects in a span of 7 years, and over 12 years after it initially ended. That's not desperation for work, as it's not a long-term project to keep the series relevant over multiple more years, but just a tribute for fans to enjoy. If you want an actual example of someone desperate for work, look no further than Fujimaki Tadatoshi's shameless upcoming sequel to Kuroko no Basket, which literally just ended a couple of months ago, and the sequel is coming out in February because he's too lazy to come up with new ideas of his own.
I could understand your complaint if the series was being utterly milked, but there has hardly been that much new content in such a short amount of time to the point where it even comes close to qualifying as being zombyfied.
::EDIT::
Oh, and there's DB Minus, which is literally just a short chapter that barely takes a few minutes to read at most. I'd hardly count that, but I thought that I'd mention it.
whoa, that's even less than i thought. i thought he worked on about 6 movies. also, i am surprised he is doing back to back movies at all since he was said to be sick of the series after the buu arc.
One thing I will say is that Freeza being revived does sound somewhat like a gimmick-y thing that you would sort of expect from a franchise being "milked." But to call Toriyama "desperate for work" is simply a total lie. Sure, he likes to come back to the series with some spin-offs like Neko Majin and Jaco the Galactic Patrol Man, but as his various one-shots and short series over the years have shown he is far from out of other ideas and could still be serialized in Shonen Jump if he really wanted to draw another manga, which he doesn't, which is why he retired. Besides, he has a ton of other design jobs he's done, for Dragon Quest, Blue Dragon, etc., and honestly, he doesn't even need more work in the first place because he gets tons of royalties from DB as it is. I think this movie is being made because Toriyama thought it would be a fun idea. As such, I'm very optimistic and curious about this. Toriyama has done zilch to sour my faith in his work over the years, so I have no reason not to have faith this will turn out to be a fun movie.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2q5vB1IQAAzmAe.jpg)
Well, time for a resurgence in these pictures.
If they played Freeza up as a serious villain, then maybe you could consider it being milked (and even then, that's a serious stretch), but as a comedy? That's viewing the character from a different angle entirely. I mean, I know that even in the Namek arc he had his share of comedic scenes, but he was still played up as a legitimate threat. By the sounds of things, this movie is supposed to be far more comedy-oriented, though.
And as for stuff like Jaco, yes it takes place within the DB Universe, but if anyone were to call that a desperate attempt to revive the series or keep it relevant, they clearly don't know a thing about these spin-offs, since stylistically they couldn't be more different than what you'd expect from DB, and don't even use the same characters (even minor ones). That, and they are all one-off stories simply done for some entertainment value for fans.
Now, if you look at what Fujisawa did to GTO, that's an example of a guy milking his key franchise and who's probably desperate for work. He's done multiple spin-offs and sequels to the manga which quite frankly range from mediocre to downright embarrassing. Compared to that, Toriyama did a few one-shots which don't even use the same characters and explore different parts of the Universe, 1 TV special, and 2 movies, all in the near 20 years since DB has ended. So what?
Yeah, if Toriyama wasn't a lazy ass, I'm pretty sure we would have had another long running manga series from him rather than all these one shots/one volume series like Jaco, Cowa, Kajika, Sand Land and even Neko Majin and Sachie-Chan, and with Sachie-Chan he was just the writer as his friend Masakazu Katsura was the artist.
As far as milking the franchise goes, I will say that I don't really count Kai as something Toriyama wanted. Kai feels more like something Toei and maybe Shueisha, wanted as a way to keep the series relevant.
Yeah, Kai was totally Toei's doing, and while its true that they love to milk our their franchises, what they've done with Dragon Ball isn't nearly as ad as what they've been doing with Sailor Moon.
Also, I don't really feel that Kai was that bad when it comes to milking, if only because it was the first truly major thing to be done with the property since the anime ended, outside of video games, and at that it was really just recut footage of the original anime with new voice-acting and music. It wasn't another GT debacle, or anything of that nature.
So, TFS has been counting down their TP 24 most iconic DB moments.
Interestingly, all 3 have been from the Majin Buu arc so far, but I can pretty much agree with all of them. Personally I'm predicting that either Goku's first SSJ transformation scene or any part of his first fight with Vegeta will make the very top spot of the list.
Good choices so far. Their #23 choice in particular is actually one of my personal top 5 moments in the entire series.
New trailer for Fukkatsu no F. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_nSVsusFQ)
Tomorrow, TFS will reveal their number one most iconic Dragon Ball moment, and I'm willing to bet above anything else that it's Goku turning Super Saiyan, as it's the only huge moment from the series that they still haven't listed yet.
Overall, I've pretty much agreed with most of this list. There are only 2 relatively minor things that I probably would've done differently if I ever made such a list:
-I would include Vegeta's first death scene over his scene in the Buu arc, personally, if only because I felt that it was more effective. I mean, he went out like a hero in that scene from the Huu arc, but I'd argue that it was more interesting to see some actual sense of emotion from him when he was still far from being a good guy, but had the balls to laugh at Frieza and look past his pride to encourage Goku to defeat him oce and for all. Also, Goku burying his body was a genuinely touching scene.
-I would've put Goku and Vegeta's first face-off in the top 3, myself, and maybe even at the top spot. Think about it. If we're talking about iconic moments, that moment is so iconic that even people who have never read or watched Dragon Ball in their lives can recognize it, and not in that silly way like you would recognize that "it's over 9,000" meme, but in a genuine way that you could associate with Dragon Ball at its core. Stuff like Goku and Vegeta staring each other down and that epic beam struggle are pretty much some of the first images that pop into my head whenever I hear someone even mention Dragon Ball or anything related to it.
Yep, I called it. And to be fair, that first SSJ transformation as a Suoer iconic scene deserving of the top spot. Even though the SSJs became pretty common in later arcs, it was a huge deal to see Goku transform that first time. I remmeber going ape-shit with excitement and anticipation during that scene back when I was first watching it on Toonami as a kid.
It is a pretty climactic scene which lead to a pretty climactic fight which lead to a great ending for the arc and pretty much the entirety of the first half of the series.
Yeah, it's definitely one of the most recognizable moments of the show. And it's true that when everyone thinks about Dragon Ball, especially a non-fan, one of the first images that pops into the mind is a super saiyan.
Yep, even if going Super Saiyan was cheapened by the fact that everyone with Saiyan blood in them can do it (except Pan and Bra for some reason), Goku's transformation is probably the scene I think about with DBZ.
Also, lol at the only good part of GT being mentioned on the honorable mentions.
A new trailer for
Fukatsu no F came out. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0bArxJtSnM#t=51) Aside from confirming that the kick-ass "Freeza Freeza" song by Maximum the Hormone will definitely be in the movie (which is fucking awesome), it also showed lots of new scenes in the movie, showing that a lot of the Z fighters will get to fight in this, and revealing what Freeza's new form will look like. Also...
Spoiler
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/98bb9f618ec37154a196d67c40ac459d/tumblr_nkmdc5dB5S1r6toezo1_500.jpg)
...JACO will be in the movie! Awesome!
The first chapter of the tie-in manga has also been translated, and I decided to read it. If you don't want to be spoiled on what the plot of the movie will be, then I suggest you don't read it, but safe to say this will be a more comedy-oriented film, which I am most pleased by. I am REALLY looking forward to this movie now. ;D
Battle of Gods was fun, but never really got me that pumped to see it, and when I did see it, I pretty much got what I expected: a mildly entertaining movie.
This one is somehow managing to get me so much more hyped right now. The tone of that first chapter was perfect. Jaco is in this, as is Beerus, so we are now actually getting a real sense of continuity to the inclusion of all of these new characters.
Also, I love the concept of Freeza having to train. I can't really explain why. I just do.
Freiza training does sound awesome.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F4Hq3DCa.jpg&hash=ea81660e3f2e237cafec707b7d7a9f2321e5c86d)
Could there be possible role reversals being hinted at, here? :sly:
I've always said that it's about time Vegeta actually finished off a major villain, and what better opportunity to do so than now. As far as I'm concerned, Goku can't win 'em all.
.....besides, this would give the movie a bit of an emotional aspect that Battle of Gods just didn't have; Vegeta finally taking Frieza down after all these years. I'll take it.
Toriyama did say he wanted Vegeta to be the protagonist if they made another movie, so I wouldn't be surprised if he gets to be the one to take Freeza down this time.
It's somewhat odd that Trunks, Goten, Yamcha, Buu, and Mr. Satan haven't been shown in any of the trailers yet. I'd expect the former four would get in on the battle in some way. Yamcha is especially odd considering Tenshinhan and Master Roshi are going to be fighting in this. If Master Roshi can hold his own against a bunch of Freeza's grunts, Yamcha surely can too.
I re-watched Battle of the Gods yesterday, and I loved it even more the second time around. I'm so excited for this movie. The most excited I think I've ever been for an anime movie.
I thought Battle of Gods was decent, but not great. I love the concept of returning the series to its humorous roots while still having fun with the characters and tone that became integral to the later parts of the series. That said, BOG just didn't really feel as genuinely funny as classic DB, so only the more DBZ-esque aspects of the film really worked for me. That said, if the manga preview is any indication, this movie seems like it could nail it this time around.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fdragonball%2Fimages%2Fc%2Fcc%2FSuper_Class-up_Yoshito.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20140413063931&hash=8999ee58f22ffffcf68fe2adfa6924ce5ac6de22)
Why can't this be in Xenoverse? I want a Pope Majin. I want to be able to baptize people into candy.
FUNi has licensed Fukkatsu no F (now titled Resurrection 'F'). (http://www.toonzone.net/2015/03/funimation-announces-dragon-ball-z-resurrection-f-movie-to-premiere-in-los-angeles-april-11/) It will have a screening in LA on April 11th. In addition, a theatrical release of the dubbed version is slated to come out sometime this summer.
Well, that was quick. Battle of Gods must have sold really well for them.
Quote from: Cartoon X on March 02, 2015, 11:00:37 PM
A new trailer for Fukatsu no F came out. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0bArxJtSnM#t=51) Aside from confirming that the kick-ass "Freeza Freeza" song by Maximum the Hormone will definitely be in the movie (which is fucking awesome), it also showed lots of new scenes in the movie, showing that a lot of the Z fighters will get to fight in this, and revealing what Freeza's new form will look like. Also...
Spoiler
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/98bb9f618ec37154a196d67c40ac459d/tumblr_nkmdc5dB5S1r6toezo1_500.jpg)
...JACO will be in the movie! Awesome!
The first chapter of the tie-in manga has also been translated, and I decided to read it. If you don't want to be spoiled on what the plot of the movie will be, then I suggest you don't read it, but safe to say this will be a more comedy-oriented film, which I am most pleased by. I am REALLY looking forward to this movie now. ;D
I'm late but Frieza's pose at 0:37 had me geeking out! I'm now hyped for this!!
Edit: I'd love to see Vegeta beat someone that's not a bum for once as well. Also, I love that the human Z Warriors like Tien and Yamcha are seen in the action. Now if they make Piccolo not get blasted in the back/disappear in the middle of the movie like he does almost any other one then this will be perfect!
Goku's got a new Super Saiyan God form. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-04-09/goku-new-super-saiyan-god-form-revealed-for-dbz-resurrection-f-film/.86933) It's called "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" (redundant much?), and it looks like this:
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.animenewsnetwork.com%2Fthumbnails%2Fmax550x550%2Fcms%2Fnews%2F86933%2Fdbz-1.jpg&hash=2ff2f9dcd2d759eb00289a70d7f07469ec2489c9)
Seems rather unnecessary if you ask me. Though, it does look somewhat cooler than the original SSJ God form.
So, basically they just changed his hair from purple to blue?
Yeah, it seems unnecessary to me as well, especially as I rather would have seen Vegeta achieve SSJG status.
A new TV anime called Dragon Ball Super is coming in July. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-04-28/dragon-ball-gets-1st-new-tv-anime-in-18-years-in-july/.87608)
Here's a translated version of the press release:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDrLPXmUUAAebjJ.png)
I don't really trust Toei, but if I end up liking the new DBZ movie whenever I get a chance to see it, then perhaps I might have more faith in this project.
So basically it's a GT remake.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on April 28, 2015, 10:33:49 AM
I don't really trust Toei, but if I end up liking the new DBZ movie whenever I get a chance to see it, then perhaps I might have more faith in this project.
Pretty much this. The fact that Toriyama is on board is also making feel more at ease though.
I also hope the series is more about showing all the minor characters some love and fun adventures and less about Goku facing increasingly powerful super duper Gods.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 28, 2015, 01:07:28 PM
So basically it's a GT remake.
Quiet, old man.
Just kidding, partially.
If this is a good chance to turn it away from being Super Saiyan battles and nothing else then I'm interested. I still haven't seen the new movies yet, though, so I don't even know if they explained why Gohan would even need to go Super Saiyan. As long as it's better than GT, I'm good.
Toriyama wanting to do this has piqued my interest already. Like you said, as long as it's better than GT I hope this does well. Can't help but wonder how much Dragonball Xenoverse had to do with this. Then there's how wildly popular Dragonball Abridged became. If I'm not mistaken, I think it got popular with Japan too didn't it?
Saying better than GT kind of canceled out your entire post because a Toriyama advised show all about super Saiyans is still auto better than GT. :sly:
Anyway, if it's the Super Saiyan show, then I'll watch it here and there, if it's better than that then I'll be hooked.
Quote from: Daikun on November 17, 2014, 12:57:27 PMOkay, I'm getting tired of this.
Is Toriyama really that desperate for work? Can't he work on something else?
This franchise ended nearly 20 years ago. Is zombifying this series really necessary?
It had its time in the sun. The story is over. We've moved on. Leave it be.
*cough*
Yeah, no one saw that coming, plate-boy
/sarcasm
Toriyama's making a new manga with Masakazu Katsura. He is working on something else. ::)
Your point still doesn't apply accurately here, Daikun, since if you pay attention to anything DBZ-related that has come out in the past few years, Toriyama himself has mostly had minimal involvement. Writing the story to the latest movie is literally the most involved he's been with the series since he ended the original run of the manga (unless you count Jaco). Toei is the company that's been milking the franchise as far as the anime goes, and Shueisha has hired other authors to do the manga spin-off shorts.
Your point is that Toriyama is "desperate for work" and trying to revive the franchise for that reason, which if you do the slightest bit of research on the guy, you would see is flat-out untrue. And the vague description of "drawn from a plot by the brand's original creator" doesn't really do much to help that point, since it's probably just like his involvement with the TV special, where he just pitched a story idea and got credit for it. Otherwise they would have just credited him as the writer like they did for this recent movie.
Toriyama bashing..the only thing that can piss off someone as nice as CX.
I wish Toriyama was writing the new series himself, for whatever that's worth. :>
I feel bad for him since he clearly didn't intend to be writing DB for as long as he did, but was forced to due to its popularity. And don't bother with interviews and articles and such. Everyone really knows that Toriyama was burned out in the last couple of years of the manga's run. It's no wonder that he never did a long project again after that.
So, give the guy a break. When he's interested enough he'll do a one-shot or even write the screenplay for a movie like he recently did for the newest one, and it's good because he wanted to do it rather than doing it just for a paycheck. Other than that, let him do his side projects, which are all short and a ton of fun, IMO.
You mean me? I meant I would have liked to see him write it because that would improved the quality of the work but I understand that he's burned out from DB. I'm surprised and grateful we even got another movie from him after Battle Of The Gods.
I guess "Super" needs to be added to the thread title now.
Do your job, Spark!
I'll consider it.
The news got me to look back to this Sean Schemmel interview where he talks about Journey to the West and how his own Buddhist teachings were inspired by playing Goku. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1PdYI_t9_Y0&list=FLbMZEy8coPlfu74ZG8Hke7A) He has an interesting interpretation of the series.
The Resurrection of F is coming to select U.S. theaters between August 4th to August 12th. (http://echo3.bluehornet.com/ct/28010807:26908131654:m:1:645567842:BFD3339B9B4D970331DC54DEA9B9E8DA:r)
Wait, I just realized. Future Trunks might appear in this new series.
That is a very good thing. :)
Aww man, hype.
Super's debut has been confirmed to be July 5th. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/daily-briefs/2015-06-04/dragon-ball-super-tv-anime-debuts-on-july-5/.88900)
I hope that it's good. Please don't make it the next GT, Toei....
To be safe, I'll just go into it with low expectations.
Going in with low expectations didn't help with GT, trust me.
At the very least, Toriyama's better involvement should make this watchable. Fingers crossed.
I don't have any expectations whatsoever. Every series I tried from Toei last year ended up being shit, but I'm willing to not dismiss this solely on the grounds that Toriyama seems to have a renewed interest in the franchise and telling more stories in it.
Well a decade old whisper has finally been confirmed. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-06-04/dragon-ball-manga-editor-series-should-have-ended-after-frieza/.88918)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 05, 2015, 12:55:07 PM
Well a decade old whisper has finally been confirmed. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-06-04/dragon-ball-manga-editor-series-should-have-ended-after-frieza/.88918)
CX already beat you to it on the DB manga thread. :humhumhum:
The dub of Resurrection of 'F' (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-06-16/dragon-ball-z-resurrection-f-english-dub-to-premiere-at-anime-expo/.89349) will premiere at Anime Expo.
A plot synopsis for the first episode of
Super has come out: (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-06-17/dragon-ball-super-anime-story-details-unveiled/.89372)
QuoteAfter defeating Majin Buu, life is peaceful once again. Ordered by Chi-chi to earn money, Goku works even as he wants to train even more. Meanwhile, Goten, about to become a brother-in-law to Videl, sets out on a journey with Trunks to find her a present.
That sounds....exciting.
Well, to be fair a lot of great Dragon Ball moments were the parts where the characters were just chilling out during some down time and we got a ton of great comedy, and THEN stuff started to go to shit after a little while.
Plus they'll have blue hair now. That's exciting!
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 26, 2015, 09:51:55 PM
Wait, I just realized. Future Trunks might appear in this new series.
That is a very good thing. :)
My favorite!
Is this coming to Crunchyroll?
Almost certainly Funimation.
Since it's a Toei show, it will certainly also be on Crunchyroll.
Yahtah. :)
Super might end up being 100 episodes long. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/daily-briefs/2015-06-19/toei-europe-lists-dragon-ball-super-at-100-episodes/.89488)
Aww, I was hoping for more than one arc. :-[
I demand that no less than 80 of those episodes be devoted to Gohan's continuing escapades as The Great Saiyaman, and at least one of those episodes has to deal with nursing a wounded dinosaur back to health only for it to get killed and eaten by a bigger predator (again), and another one involving Pan getting lost and bonding with a random damaged robot that she just happens to find in the cave that she gets stuck in.
The rest of the episodes can be about whatever the fuck they want, but it's not a true Dragon Ball Z sequel without Gohan spending most of his time doing things that are of absolutely no consequence to anything else in the show. Don't let me down on this one, Toei.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 19, 2015, 04:06:29 PM
Aww, I was hoping for more than one arc. :-[
You did not just complain about 100 episodes? I thought you were going to say "That's too long" and I was going to lambast you anyway. :sly:
The name of the fat Beerus look-alike is Shanpa. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/daily-briefs/2015-06-19/new-dragon-ball-super-character-name-revealed/.89497)
Dub trailer for The Resurrection of 'F'. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-06-26/dragon-ball-z-resurrection-f-film-english-dubbed-trailer-posted/.89773)
It's kind of weird that we aren't getting a simulcast for this show. It's as if Toei is basically begging foreign audiences to pirate fan-subs of this series.
I can't imagine Funimation hasn't approached them already. There must be some sort of loophole or unexplained issue at play.
FUNi still has two simulcasts left to reveal, so I wouldn't count it out yet. There's probably some contractual things they are still working out before they can start streaming it. This isn't the first time a simulcast was announced late or didn't begin on the same day as a series' premiere.
I re-watched Battle of Gods on DVD recently and got to watch the whole English dub. Personally I prefer it dubbed as the humor works a lot better in this version, IMO.
At any rate, this is a good fan-service movie. Which is to say that on its own, it'd make for a poor stand-alone piece, but as a tribute to fans, it just has so much crammed into it for you to appreciate. From what I've seen of released footage of ROF, that seems to be pretty much the same deal.
I just hope that Super could somehow manage to capture the entertainment value of a full story arc in its later episodes. Dragon Ball was more than just good humor and gags. It was comedy combined with memorable adventure story-lines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adybnxTLbf4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adybnxTLbf4)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FlkoYjh0.jpg&hash=fedf45b15c21d5cf5259bec3f2c24c24877fbe2a)
Are you serious? :lol:
I'll be seeing this movie tomorrow after all, at 7:00 PM. I'll try my best to get a review up by the next day, but if I don't, you don't need to wait for me if you want to post an official review up on the blog, CX. More than likely I'll just summarize my brief thoughts on the movie.
From what I've heard, though, it's about on par with Battle of Gods, seeing as how people either say that they liked it a bit better or a bit less, but still enjoyed it, and the people who complain about it being lackluster or boring also seem to note that they didn't care for BOG either.
Personally, nostalgia aside, BOG was an OK movie, so I expect to feel roughly the same about this one, which is to say that it should be entertaining for me as a hardcore DB fan, but probably nothing too memorable in its own right.
Heh, the showtime I'm going to is at 7pm as well. :D I'll pm you after I get back to check if you still plan to review it or not.
Did you buy your ticket through Fathom Events as well? :P
Anyways, I think that I will do a review after all. After finally coming to the realization that I'll be seeing a Dragon Ball Z movie in theaters for the very first time (I didn't go to see BOG in theaters), I'm suddenly super excited for it. Even if the movie itself is only decent, it'll probably feel like a huge deal to me just being in the same auditorium as other hardcore DBZ fans watching a brand new DBZ production on the big screen.
To hell with my work. I can afford to give myself a little bit of time to enjoy something like this. That said, I might not have a review up until tomorrow morning since I need to go to a local place with Wi-Fi in order to upload it. In such a case, you can feel free to not wait for me and PM your review to Foggle like you normally do in order to have it uploaded onto the blog.
It wouldn't hurt to have all three of you review it. The more opinions, the better.
Also, let's all be a bit weary of spoilers for these reviews. Obviously we should be able to refer to certain scenes from the film, but not their overall context within the film, or any big moments or surprises that might happen closer to the end.
The experience of seeing an anime film with other anime fans is a great one. It was a large part of the fun in seeing BOG on the big screen last year, as well as when I saw the second T&B movie and Madoka Magica 3.
I wouldn't have a review ready tonight anyway, and I still have to finish writing this week's After the Jump as it is. I'll decide to write one depending on how fast I can finish that and whether or not I have a different perspective than yours.
And I literally just got done watching the movie. I'm using a cell-phone hear so I'll keep my thoughts brief and post up my full review tomorrow.
First of all, though, I just want to say that it was really fun to watch an anime film in theaters, which I honestly haven't done since the Digimon movie (which shouldn't even count). The auditorium was pretty big and about three-quarters full by my estimation, which surprised me because I wasn't sure that there would be that many fans in one area.
Anyways, as for the movie itself, here are my spoiler-free thoughts on it:
I really genuinely enjoyed watching it. Now, keep in mind that I viewed this as a DB fan, not as a critic. Also, expectations are everything. This movie was written by Toriyama to be a light-hearted follow-up to Freeza's story-line from the original series, and the opening scene perfectly sets the tone for this movie. It has a great sense of humor combined with some really well-animated action (the CG was just as bad as in BOG, though, but thankfully not too prevalent).
I really liked seeing the supporting cast get some chance to shine, especially Krillin and Master Roshi, the latter of which the audience that I was with went nuts over when he took down a cluster of Freeza's minions (it was really cool to see him get a bad-ass moment for the first time in decades). There were also a number of slapstick gags that felt right out of classic Dragon Ball, including one scene where Piccolo casually tossed his weighted clothing at some soldiers and all of them collapsed under its weight, which had me laughing.
Additionally, I was really surprised by how much I liked Jaco. His spin-off comic was entertaining, but seeing him interact with the DB cast was really entertaining for me. I also like how they limited the cast, here, and focused on a smaller group of characters as opposed to shoehorning everyone in.
The star of the movie was really Freeza, though. I loved Chris Ayres reprising his role, and I still loved him as a villain. His minions, Sorbet and Tagoma, were pretty forgettable, though.
Having said all of that, this is still a far cry from a perfect movie. It has many of the same problems as BOG (though I liked this one a bit better, personally), and I'll get more into those in my full review, but while I loved the furthering of Goku and Vegeta's rivalry, I don't like how they seemed to learn nothing from the events of BOG in terms of hubris. I also did not like the ending of the film. It came out of nowhere and felt too rushed and too abrupt. I have numerous other issues, but lets just say that if I were to view this movie as a critic, my enjoyment of it would be greatly hampered.
Having said that, as a DBZ fan I still really ended up liking what I got, and I also love how this movie added to the series' lore, especially with Freeza being aware of Beerus and Whis (though, sadly, neither of them had much importance in this film outside of one scene that I won't spoil).
If you're a DBZ fan and liked BOG, I think that you'll have fun with this movie. This isn't as good as the actual Namek arc, obviously, nor is it a Ghibli or Chizu film in terms of quality, but as something for a niche fanbase, it's a really good time, IMO.
My specific thoughts don't seem too dissimilar from yours, but I really LOVED the movie. Toriyama said this was going to be gut-bustingly hilarious, and boy howdy, was it ever. The entire audience I was with was howling with laughter from beginning to end. Chris Ayres nailed Freeza in this film and every scene and bit of dialogue from him was just perfect. And I really did love seeing the supporting characters get a awesome fight scene all to themselves, especially Master Roshi, which especially made me happy since he hasn't had a chance to show his stuff since the King Piccolo arc (not counting filler/non-canon anime movies). Jaco was also a friggin' great addition to the cast and I hope that he gets to have more appearances in future DB movies/Super, if not have his manga adapted into a film itself. Sure, there wasn't much plot to the film, nor was there really any tension whatsoever to the fights with Freeza, but it gave me exactly what I was expecting from it - a light-hearted, fun comedic DB movie, and on that it delivered. That said, if they make more DBZ movies I'd rather them evolve the series more by having Goku and Vegeta fight opponents that actually challenge them and make them work as a team (the big lesson they intentionally don't learn at the end of this movie), but I would LOVE to see some new Dr. Slump movies helmed by Toriyama, because if nothing else, this movie showed that he still has the chops for great comedy.
I may or may not write a complementary review to E-K's if I have a different perspective to add, but I'm not sure if that'll be necessary. In any case, finishing this week's After the Jump and trying to resume Monthly Manga Roundups takes more priority for me, and I have much more important work that I still need to get done this week, so I'll only do one if there's something I really feel that's worth adding/discussing.
BTW, E-K, did your showing have that ridiculous Pre-Show from FUNimation at the beginning? Everyone in my theater was chuckling at how dumb the Q&A part of it was. :D
I did really like the movie a lot, CX. Don't get the wrong idea. ;)
I was simply stating that as a critic, the movie has problems. As a DBZ movie, it's total fan-service and a lot of fun, and as a fan I loved watching it as well. Think of it sort of like how I like The Avengers movies as an MCU fan, but admit that they aren't so great for non-fans, if that makes any sense.
But yes, I agree, I loved the humor, and unlike BOG this felt more natural and less forced, much like classic Toriyama humor, IMO. You can really tell that he personally wrote the script himself.
As for the pre-show, we actually didn't get that for whatever reason. Or maybe something happened while I went to the bathroom before the show officially started, but I doubt it.
But I was wondering what scenes got the largest reactions (pops, laughs, cheers, etc.) from the audience in your theater. Some that come to mind other than Master Roshi are Krillin's whole traffic officer shenanigans, Vegeta's comment on Goku basically being an idiot, the one million Zeni wish in the beginning, and of course both the opening scene and post-credits scene in "Hell." There were other moments as well, but those ones really got some big reactions in my theater.
Oh, I could tell you enjoyed it from your thoughts. My phrasing might've been misleading there. :sweat:
All of those moments got big laughs from the audience in my theater as well. Beyond those, there were a bunch of jokes with Beerus and Whis' love of food and casual observations of the fight that got a bunch of chuckles. Jaco's drawing of Freeza, his various fight scenes, banter with Bulma, and just his presence in general were also extremely well-received, which surprised me as it didn't seem like too many people there had read his manga or knew of the character beforehand. Certain bits of banter between Goku and Vegeta were popular too, especially them bickering over who's turn was it to fight Freeza. Krillin's first appearance when stopping the robbers, 18's comment that she should probably join the fight since she was stronger than Krillin, Krillin asking her to shave his head, and 18's "He's so cool" line all got big laughs too, the latter especially. One comment that wasn't a joke that got big laughs was Tenshinhan's comment about leaving Chiaotzu and Yamcha behind because he thought the situation would be too much for them. I could really tell this was a crowd full of big fans of the series when a small throwaway comment like that got them really going. :D
Really, most of the jokes, callbacks, and gags in the film got good laughs from the audience. The only ones that really noticeably seemed to fall flat were a few involving the Pilaf gang and some of the interactions between Freeza and his henchmen. I admit, the Pilaf gang didn't get nearly as good of material as they did in BoG, but I love Pilaf, so I was happy seeing him get a bit part in the movie anyway.
Jaco is going to become a new fan favorite after more people see this movie. I'm calling it. The crowd absolutely loved every moment that he was on screen. I was surprised by how great his scenes and dialogue were. I was expecting a cute little cameo, but what I got was just an awesome Toriyama character that felt right at home in the DB Universe.
As for Pilaf, at least the Zeni wish got a huge laugh in my theater. But yeah, they weren't too into the rest of his jokes.
Slight change of plans. Me and CX have agreed to post up both of our reviews up on the weekend.
However, what I will say is that if you're a Dragon Ball fan and have the time and opportunity to watch this movie in theaters, it's definitely worth it.
The movie is doing really well for a limited theatrical release: https://youtu.be/eEdpp-tuL2U
We made it!
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=anime.htm
It really makes you think that if this got a wider release this might have set a larger record. Like I can honestly see this going up to maybe 5th if done properly. But what really moved my heart was that I saw a whole bunch of families, couples and friends coming to watch in in the theaters. It really is a great reminder of just how huge this franchise is, when you can see not just your average anime fan, but people outside the fandom come and watch this.
I'm happy that the movie is doing so well. It honestly really deserves it, IMO.
God fucking damnit, Toei....
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--no28NcAZ--%2Fc_fit%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_80%2Cw_636%2F1379007683519638051.jpg&hash=ae971c2a5bf67d57770eba7441c2e07cef16b72a)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--nFAJs81f--%2Fc_fit%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_80%2Cw_636%2F1379007683563727651.jpg&hash=acf8f66b38596378b5b81d55a8747fe1d3959dd8)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--zvq7YX2D--%2Fc_fit%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_80%2Cw_636%2F1379007683618939939.jpg&hash=95d4ee89f0c12bed2d3fa1e5c80bed18f4c0bd69)
I know that this doesn't have the same budget as the movies, but they aren't even trying here. Or rather, Toei gives so little of a shit that they force overworked, underpayed animators to get these episodes done on a weekly basis without the slightest regard to quality.
This shit looks even worse than Sailor Moon Crystal, and that's really saying something. I hope that the entity known as Toei Animation rots in hell some day. :srs:
Amazing that they're still able to get away with crap like that.
Good lord. :shit:
Here's an example of how simply, yet fluidly and lively the action flows in Toriyama's manga: http://kotaku.com/a-closer-look-at-dragon-ball-s-brilliance-1578356576
Much like how a director uses clever techniques, tricks, and edits with camera angles to make a scene flow smoothly, Toriyama does this with his panel-to-page layouts in manga. It's something that seems effortless and goes unnoticed and is taken for granted by 95% of readers, but subconscious level they still notice how smooth this all comes off, which gives even more mundane scenes a sense of impact and profound significance. Toriyama is using a clever set-up in his art-style to direct the very eye movements of his readers. Contrary to what you might think, there is clearly a great deal of thought and effort put into almost every single page of this 42 volume manga, from panel-to-panel. It must be emphasized that very few other mangaka can even come close to matching this level of skill. This is Osamu Tezuka level brilliance just in terms of the presentation alone.
Now look at how Toei's cheap, uninspired, corner-cutting animation pays absolutely no mind to any of this, and as seen above can get this horrendously bad with its action scenes. That's right, the actual animated series feels more static than the comic book.
Do you all see why I've long held a distaste for the anime adaptations of Dragon Ball, and why I can't stand it when people base their opinions of the series as a whole solely on what less talented people put out?
And yes, I still have a soft spot for the original Dragon Ball anime, but as far as I'm concerned, Dragon Ball has never truly been done justice in animated form, aside from some of the movies (and only as far as animation goes). Super is just the latest offender.
The movie was great, pretty much everything I'd want and/or expect from a DB movie; good action, good comedy, solid animation. I'll echo the sentiment that it never felt like there was a whole lot of tension here, even with Frieza powered up to max, but the fight scenes were still entertaining enough. The comedy aspect was definitely their bread and butter here though; probably the funniest act in the series yet.
I actually enjoyed this way more than BoG, for what it's worth (and I sang that movies praises quite a bit as well). The comedy definitely feels a lot more natural this time around; while BoG had a lot of good bits with the Pilaf gang, a number of the jokes were kinda hit or miss for me after repeated viewings (especially some of the King Kai stuff early on). This was a really funny movie though; for me personally, none of the jokes actually fell flat at all.
My only disappointment was that we didn't really get to see Frieza train, but eh, you can't have everything. I'll take Roshi with his first worthwhile fight scene in 20+ years just fine instead (and Tien! Loved seeing the Tri-Beam in action again).
It was super fun, and you could definitely feel the Toriyama touch to this one as opposed to BOG.
I planned to have my review up a few days ago, but I'm still going to wait on CX and LordGoku so we can all post our reviews up as a single article.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 10, 2015, 08:39:30 PM
Here's an example of how simply, yet fluidly and lively the action flows in Toriyama's manga: http://kotaku.com/a-closer-look-at-dragon-ball-s-brilliance-1578356576
That article is spot-on. For further reading on the anatomy of the action scenes in DB, I'd recommend reading this series of articles, (https://manuelamalasanya.wordpress.com/effort-series/) which provide a thorough and in-depth look at what makes the art and action in DB so effective. It's a great read, and does well to highlight what makes DB a great comic, and Toriyama a true master comic artist.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 10, 2015, 10:40:26 PM
I planned to have my review up a few days ago, but I'm still going to wait on CX and LordGoku so we can all post our reviews up as a single article.
The wait is over. Three new reviews. Dragon Ball Z. Posted August 11th at 3:40am. "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." Only Animation Revelation. (http://animationrevelation.com/readables/?p=4530)
QuoteFurthermore, why does Gohan even go into his Super-Saiyan form when it was already established that he had achieved another form of power that had surpassed the use of that transformation way back in the Majin Buu arc of DBZ?
I've been asking this question for years. Just as I've been asking why Gohan isn't singlehandedly beating everyone since he is canonically the strongest non-fused character in DBZ.
But, oh well, I can't complain too much.
Nice reviews!
Well, it's stated in the movie that Gohan essentially lost the ability to use that state because he hadn't kept up with his training, which is why he was worried he wouldn't even be able to go regular Super Saiyan. If you don't train yourself in any skill you are going to become rusty and worse at it, and thats happened to him before in the timeskip between the Cell and Buu arcs, so I can buy the explanation, even though the time-frame seems a little quick for him to have completely lost all that power (since ROF takes place only a year and a half after BOG).
With the Gohan turning SSJ bit, I didn't mention the specific point in the movie where he does it in order to avoid spoilers, but I'll just say that at one point they need to power up to max, and Gohan turns SSJ, which didn't make sense to me given that his "mystic" form (I don't remember the proper name for it) was already beyond the level of any SSJ (including SSJ3).
Now, to be fair they did explain that he hasn't been training since the Buu arc ended, so naturally he would be weaker, but I don't buy that his power would drop by THAT much after just a few years, when he was still able to maintain the SSJ2 level (albeit not as strong as it was in his battle with Cell) after seven years of not training. Like I said, though, it's just a nitpick an an otherwise great DBZ movie.
Also, while I criticized Gohan for being nerfed in my review, someone somewhere else pointed out that Freeza clearly commented that Gohan was holding back against his minions so as to be non-lethal to them, but could otherwise take them all out easily if he was willing to kill them. I missed that in my first viewing of the movie, somehow, but that does actually address one of my criticisms, so I was wrong about that bit.
ROF will be out on DVD/BD in October: http://m.ign.com/articles/2015/08/20/dragon-ball-z-resurrection-f-home-video-release-date-box-art-revealed
That's just three days before my birthday, so maybe I'll hit it up, but the single DVD option seems over-priced, especially since it doesn't contain any extra footage. I might just wait for it to come down in price, or see if any store offers a good deal on it. I got BOG at Wal-Mart for just $10, which is really all a single DVD release should cost, IMO.
I love this: https://youtu.be/SlrcxeQau1E
I hope that Toei reps get their e-mails flooded with links to this video.
The ending theme version is even better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd_PVoDCvd8&feature=iv&src_vid=SlrcxeQau1E&annotation_id=annotation_2204524101 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd_PVoDCvd8&feature=iv&src_vid=SlrcxeQau1E&annotation_id=annotation_2204524101)
These go beyond just being bad inbetween drawings, they are just terrible drawings altogether. And terrible drawings make for terrible animation.
The animation in episode 5 was something that I could forgive on its own, but what's really worrying is the lack of effort so far in general. I was hoping that the anime would take the time to expand and improve on the plot of BOG. However, it's merely retreading familiar ground but doing so in a way that's inferior to the film version. It seems that Toei is content with resting on their laurels and just assume that making a successful DB show takes no real effort anymore because it's so popular.
It pisses me off, personally, because they have so much potential to evolve and redefine the franchise, but aren't going to try and capitalize on any of it. I'll wait for them to get to new material, of course, but what I've seen so far doesn't exactly instill me with much confidence.
So, is this as big a whiff as GT?
Unfortunately, it just might be, or at least it seems that way so far.
I may eventually do an article on why reviving DB COULD actually be a good thing for the anime industry, but also how Toei can and probably will royally fuck it up. I'll wait a few more weeks, though, on the off chance that the quality might pick up.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 21, 2015, 01:24:59 PM
I may eventually do an article on why reviving DB COULD actually be a good thing for the anime industry, but also how Toei can and probably will royally fuck it up. I'll wait a few more weeks, though, on the off chance that the quality might pick up.
I'd like to read that. :)
It'd be a really fun write-up, though I'd also have to do some research. Whether one likes it or not, though, DB's huge success in multiple countries all over the world outside of Japan played a big role in the boom of popularity that anime received in foreign markets to Japan.
And yes, while Pokemon actually became an even bigger global property, that was due also in large part to the games and trading cards. DB's success was almost exclusively dependent on the show (as well as the comics, in certain countries).
You can also tie that in to how they squandered a good chance with Sailor Moon Crystal, as well. I'm seeing many similarities here.
So, there's one tidbit from ROF that really bothers me as a plot-hole of sorts:
Spoiler
How the hell did Sorbet even manage to harm Goku, let alone get a fatal shot in on him, in his SSGSS form, no less, with just an ordinary laser blaster? I get that he caught him off guard, but even so, such a weak weapon shouldn't even phase him. I mean, Goku was a kid when he took on the RRA, and he got shot several times off-guard in that arc, including taking a Sniper bullet to the neck and a Rocket Launcher missile right at the torso, and he just shrugged them off as minor annoyances. I get that Freeza Force weapons would be stronger than any human weapon, but surely an adult Goku with God Ki could take billions of times more damage off guard than he did as a child and still shrug it off. How did that pierce a hole through his lung, exactly?
Also, while we're on the subject of plot-holes....
Spoiler
How come Shenlong only gave the gang one wish in BOG?
How do Bulma, Yamcha, Oolong, and Puar not recognize Emperor Pilaf and his gang in BOG?
Why does Majin Buu act like such a dick to Mr. Satan in DBS when they were pretty much best friends by the end of DBZ?
How come Whis says that Beerus sanctioned Freeza to take out planet Vegeta, yet Beerus contemplates taking the planet out himself when he awakens in BOG, and is surprised to find out that Freeza already did it?
At the end of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, why does it say that Bulma graduated from school at the age of 16 before she met Goku, when she clearly still attends school in the manga at least as far as the RRA arc?
How come Tights wasn't invited to Bulma's birthday party? (OK, we all know the real answer to this one; Toriyama helped work out the story to BOG BEFORE he worked on Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, which is when he first came up with the character in his notoriously BS retconning tactics).
Why did Toriyama forget that Lunch existed in the manga by the Saiyan arc, and by extension she also wasn't invited to Bulma's birthday party?
Does anyone else realize that Master Roshi unwittingly murdered Monster Carrot and the Rabbit Mob when he blew up the moon during the 21st Budokai Tenkaiichi? (Does anyone else even care?)
How did Goku even get them to the moon in the first place when he clearly can't breath in space?
How can THEY even breath in space?
How did Goku start searching for the Dragon Balls after the 21st Budokai Tenkaiichi when it had only been about eight months since they were last used?
Did Goku never get the idea to use the Dragon Balls to wish his grandfather back to life? I mean, he's only the guy who raised the ungrateful little dick.
Why do I get the feeling that most fans know more about Dragon Ball than Toriyama himself does, and that he probably moved on from the series long ago for a reason?
As much as I absolutely fucking love DB, I'm starting to see why Toriyama was much more well-suited to a zany comedy manga like Dr. Slump which didn't rely heavily on continuity. Still, it's actually harmlessly fun to pick apart DB's numerous plot-holes. :D
Basically any plotholes in DB comes from the fact that Toriyama just doesn't plan ahead or overthink any of the power-levels/logic/lore in the series all that much like the series' fans do. Though, I feel some of the points you've mentioned can be explained:
Spoiler
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2015, 11:39:40 PM
How do Bulma, Yamcha, Oolong, and Puar not recognize Emperor Pilaf and his gang in BOG?
Well, it has been literally decades since they've last seen him. None of them have seen him since the end of the Pilaf saga, after all, and I doubt they've thought about him since considering all the things they've been through in all those years. I don't think it's too much of a surprise they forgot him.
Quote
Why does Majin Buu act like such a dick to Mr. Satan in DBS when they were pretty much best friends by the end of DBZ?
Buu is a big man-child, and gets especially irritable and unreasonable when he's hungry. He wasn't exactly a 100% model friend during the period he and Satan were becoming friends and we didn't really see how they interacted outside of the fighting after that except for the ending stuff, which takes place years after where DBS currently is, so I don't think he's been acting too out of character, at least not so far.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2015, 11:39:40 PM
How come Whis says that Beerus sanctioned Freeza to take out planet Vegeta, yet Beerus contemplates taking the planet out himself when he awakens in BOG, and is surprised to find out that Freeza already did it?
He doesn't. I literally just checked the movie, and he asks Whis whether Freeza's taken out Planet Vegeta for him. He does not show surprise that Freeza already did it - he only shows surprise when Whis mentions that someone's defeated Freeza since.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2015, 11:39:40 PM
Why did Toriyama forget that Lunch existed in the manga by the Saiyan arc, and by extension she also wasn't invited to Bulma's birthday party?
Toriyama didn't forget Lunch, per say, he just didn't ever find time to put her back into the story, and probably didn't feel the need to since she wouldn't have much to do anyways. Actually, he was planning to draw her giving her energy to Goku's spirit bomb in the Buu arc, but by that point he had literally forgotten how to draw her, so he replaced her scene with the one with Android 17 instead.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2015, 11:39:40 PM
Does anyone else realize that Master Roshi unwittingly murdered Monster Carrot and the Rabbit Mob when he blew up the moon during the 21st Budokai Tenkaiichi? (Does anyone else even care?)
Well, the only characters who would have known about this would be Goku, Bulma, Yamcha, Puar, and Oolong, none of whom probably remember or care considering it's been months since they encountered him, and Monster Carrot wasn't a particularly good person anyway (it would have been far from the first thing that would come to their mind in that moment anyway).
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2015, 11:39:40 PM
Did Goku never get the idea to use the Dragon Balls to wish his grandfather back to life? I mean, he's only the guy who raised the ungrateful little dick.
In the Baba arc, Upa brings it up to Goku, but Gohan tells them he's content with his life in the other world. To quote his response from the Viz translation of the manga - "I'm actually enjoying the Other World quite a bit! There are quite a few fetching lady-souls there, you know!" :D
I was purposefully being ridiculous with some of those. :P
As for Lunch, though, I'm wondering why he took her out to begin with. Oolong, Puar, and Turtle didn't exactly have anything of worth to contribute to the plots of most story arcs after they were initially introduced, but you still saw them hanging around from time to time. He could have at least done the same for Lunch, or even found some excuse to write her out of the story but still acknowledge her existense.
I've always wondered about that too. I'm guessing he might have had something planned with the whole Lunch leaving to chase after Tenshinhan thing, but forgot to follow-up on it, and then as Tenshinhan became less important of a character as the series went on there were less and less opportunities to bring her back into the story without going out of the way to do so.
It's a shame, since I always found Lunch to be a fun character, even when she didn't have much to do after the RRA arc. In fact, I was re-reading the King Piccolo arc earlier this weekend, and she had two choice moments that I found very amusing - one being her comment that Piccolo's plan to create a lawless world where murder and mayhem reigned king didn't sound half-bad to her, and the other where she's all gung-ho about going out and shooting up Piccolo and Yamcha comments that it's times like this that he's glad she's around, only for her to immediately sneeze soon after and revert back to her docile self. Like how Chi-Chi got her moments in the series every now and again despite not influencing the main story much, I think she could've continue to have small, fun moments like those if she had stuck around.
Yeah, she really felt like a part of "the family" in regard to the cast of supporting characters. It'd have been nice if she at least got a cameo in BOG, but it looks like by that point even most fans had forgotten about her.
On the subject of current DB stuff, part of me still wants it to continue in movie format where there is some quality control, but the most potential for good story-telling comes from serialization, but as we've been seeing with DBS, Toei doesn't care how big the property is, they'll still cut corners.
Normally I wouldn't care so much about a revived series and would say to just leave the original story alone. The difference here is that Dragon Ball has achieved such a huge status that it's not going away any time soon. in some countries besides just Japan it has become a part of mainstream pop culture, including other mediums like video games and such. Additionally, it was always based around coming up with new stories and making up new plot points on the spot, so in essence it was literally made to be easy to continue without a conclusive and definitive ending.
But the real reason that I actually do want to see it continue is that by nature DB has established a foundation in which you can tell so many different kinds of stories. Both of the recent films proved that by expanding the lore and even integrating expanded aspects of Toriyama's Universe into the story (such as Jaco). And while Toriyama's iconic manga series will always be the true Dragon Ball for me, many people who grew up with it as fans are probably working in the anime industry now, and since Toriyama himself stated in interviews that he's happy to pass the torch off to other writers to continue the series, it'd be a chance to help the series evolve and redefine its image for a new generation. In that regard, it's very much like Lupin III or Doraemon or Super Sentai or other similar franchises that have persisted for years through multiple incarnations.
Like I said, I want to write an article about why DBS is failing (aside from poor quality control in terms of production values), and how new DB material could be done far better with the right ideas and concepts applied with good writing. Perhaps after I finally retake my NAPLEX exam next month, I'll get on that.
Does anyone else know about the old Dragon Ball PSAs for Traffic and Fire Safety? I just find it so amusing that any PSA organization would use DB characters as role models for children considering how reckless most of them normally are, most notably Goku. Then again, if I was living in Japan and growing up on Dragon Ball at the time, I'd probably listen to these just because it's DB. It's also just a cute little novelty to know that this was even a thing. It really shows you just how much DB had infiltrated Japanese pop-culture, and this was Pre-Z Era, at that.
I mean, do JoJo's or FOTNS have children's safety PSA specials? I think not. The traffic safety one would have been ironically hilarious if they did a YYH version of that, though. :D
Here are the videos just in case anyone's curious:
http://youtu.be/pNmEiXF1tew
http://youtu.be/ZryRwhmCEso
Yeah, I've seen them. They're cute. Would have been amusing if FUNi dubbed them and CN/Toonami aired them as an "after school special" back in the day. :D
I wouldn't mind seeing an Abridged take on them from TFS, but since they are focused on DBZ now and presumably for the next several years, that probably won't ever happen.
If they are still around long enough after they get to the end of DBZ, though, it'd be great if they made DB their next long-running project instead of moving onto GT. That's a very big IF at this point in time, of course.
Also, I looked up and found that they were included as part of the Dragon Box sets in Japan, which reminded me that the boxes were available in limited release by FUNimation a few years ago. I looked up the prices on Amazon and E-Bay out of curiosity and holy shit are they expensive as hell.
Good thing I'm not a huge fan of the anime version, otherwise if I wanted to collect DBZ on DVD (I don't own a Blu-Ray player), I'd have to settle for those garbage orange-brick sets.
I do eventually want to collect the original DB anime on DVD, though. Does anyone know if FUNi did away with the cropped footage for the blue-brick sets?
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 27, 2015, 08:01:08 PM
Does anyone know if FUNi did away with the cropped footage for the blue-brick sets?
They did.
FUNi will give a "look" at Super at their upcoming DBZ panel at New York Comic Con. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/daily-briefs/2015-09-05/funimation-hosts-look-at-dragon-ball-super-at-new-york-comic-con/.92575)
I'm assuming they'll announce that they've licensed the series then.
Oh, and remember that Sailor Moon Re-Animate fan project (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orhh6TZ6qCE) from last year? Now there's a group doing one for Dragon Ball! (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-09-04/new-fan-project-aims-to-reanimate-dragon-ball-episode/.92542)
Some of those shots looked like Dragon Ball meets Adventure Time in terms of the animation style. That's interesting, to say the least.
So, DBS is still pretty "meh" to downright shit in quality, but I just wanted to say that Mr. Satan casually knocking Gohan away got a genuine chuckle out of me. Not sure why, but something about the image and thought of that scene has an ironic sort of humor about it.
Other than that, though, I'm understanding more and more why this show just doesn't work, so far. A big part of that, aside from just the animation problems, is how Toei is actively trying to appeal to DBZ nostalgia rather than making this series its own thing. We essentially had an episode-long power-up, this week, which in itself was a highly mocked staple of DBZ.
The thing that Toei fails to realize is that it needs to be trying to shed that exact image with this show. DBZ is NOT a good anime. It has some genuinely great moments and episodes, and is based off of excellent source matetial, but the good is diluted by tons of cheap and drawn out content. The thing is, though, that DBZ had the excuse of utilizing a lot of cheap filler and extended power-up clips out of necessity due to not wanting to overtake the manga.
The way that anime is produced has changed since then, what with the idea of seasons with breaks in-between being a more common practice these days, and usually for the better. In addition to that, Super doesn't have any source material to adhere to, unless you coubt the movies, but this series is SUPPOSED to overtake those, in the first place. Therefore, there is no need for so much filler or drawn-out sequences for the sake of stalling for time. We should be getting a fair deal of plot progression in each episode without any of the old DBZ pause tactics getting in the way. The only reason to do that would be just for the sole purpose of saving money and milking the show out for longer, without any regard to quality.
But that's just it. The greedy executive suits at Toei don't care about quality. They care about easy money, and are so naiive to think that they'll get away with no effort. People have higher standards these days. The generation that grew up with DBZ has grown up, and modern kids aren't going to care about it if it does nothing to make itself stand out from the plethora of highly popular shonen series that are currently running.
Simply taking Toriyama's story ideas does not put this on the level of quality of Toriyama's actual work (as DBZ being an inferior adaptation of the manga has already proven). Instead, this anime SHOULD be a modern evolution of DB, keeping its core concepts at heart, but changing the formula just enough to appeal to a brand new generation of shonen anime fans. Sadly, that's not the goal that Toei has in mind for this show, at least not so far.
Also, the soundtrack is painfully boring and forgettable, as well as inappropriately utilized. The choice of music for when Goku finally achieves his SSG transformation was embarrassingly unfitting for the weight of that scene. So, that hurts the quality too. I don't care if Kai's music was plagiarized; I'd desperately take that over anything in Super. Kikuchi's score as well. And while I dislike the Faulconer score, even that isn't as horridly bland as Super's OST.
And now there's yet another unofficial DBZ animation project in the works (unrelated to the one that CX brought up); this time in the form of a CG sort of Pixar-esque animation style:
http://kotaku.com/upcoming-dragon-ball-z-animation-looks-like-a-pixar-mov-1730559439
It's pretty impressive for something being done by just seven animators; though at least two of them are credited as having worked as graphics designers on big-budget video games, so they certainly have experience with CG animation.
Damn, that Super Buu character design is total nightmare fuel. Very curious to see the final product when it's finished.
Well, at least we got some half-way decent fight animation this week. It's just too bad that we have to slog through ten mediocre to bad episodes to get to one that's just kind of OK....kind of like the original DBZ, now that I think about it. But at least that series had good source material to work with, along with an excellent score, and a better use of the limited animation style. I'm not calling it good, but at least you could tell that they were trying.
I'm going to wait until the end of the year, though, before I write a blog post about this show, if only because I'll be really busy until the Holliday Season.
So I have to give the show at least some credit, here. The animation quality has improved a lot (by TV standards) in the last few episodes.
Additionally, this was the first legitimate decent episode, IMO. The previous few were just fighting for the most part, though Mr. Satan did get a really good character moment where he jumped in front of Videl to protect her, even if it would've been futile, which I love that the writers at least seem to understand what makes the character so great beyond just comic relief.
This episode had good fight animation, but it also had a connecting theme that made it actually work as an episode. That theme is summed up in a great character moment and line from Goku in which he tells Beerus something along the lines of "You don't decide my limits." I also thought that we got another great character moment with Vegeta catching Goku as he came crashing down to the ground. Additionally, some of the music they used seemed new and while not necessarily great, felt appropriate to the emotional cues of the story and characters, and was decent for what it was. In short, this episode actually felt like it had some heart to it, and I appreciate that it didn't just follow Battle of Gods to the letter, but gave its own spin on the ending (I still prefer BOG, though).
Don't get me wrong, one fairly good episode (once again, IMO, you guys may disagree) doesn't automatically make me forgive Toei's lack of effort up to this point, but it does give me just a slight bit of hope that they are responding to criticisms so far and trying to clean up their act. I won't expect them to, though.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--eMPun2K4--%2Ffep4wipwxro79w09yt6a.jpg&hash=7ee48a8e9ff157f55d0d7a9328c4cd8b0a7bcfdb)
'Dat moustache!
Not going to lie, I thought the latest episode was absolutely hilarious. First episode of Super that I've legitimately enjoyed so far.
I also enjoyed it. I thought that they actually got the comedy right in their own way. It's not Toriyama humor, but it does stay true to the characters and it also does a good job of showing why despite being a total fraud, Mr. Satan is still an awesome guy in his own, strange way.
That said, I still maintain my opinion that the previous episode was legit good for the reasons that I mentioned, and that the few before that were small but gradual improvements over the first ten or so episodes.
I'm still not convinced that Toei suddenly gives a shit, but I'm praying that this might be the beginning of a much needed improvement in quality that the series desperately needs. Like I said, though, I'm not realistically expecting it to happen.
I just bought DBZRF on DVD. I had read that FUNimation would charge $30 for it, but Wal-Mart had it for much cheaper than that. Anyways, I re-watched the movie, and it's still as great as the first time that I saw it. Next time I'll check it out in Japanese with subtitles, though.
This week's Super was actually pretty great, with some really nice character moments and enjoyable humor. Moreover, it did what I've been wanting the show to do in the first place - show stuff that the movies didn't and move the story past them. I don't know how long that'll last since they still have to cover ROF at some point, but for now, the show might actually start being worthwhile to watch.
I genuinely loved (and I mean LOVED) the sentimental moment between Goku and Krillin in this episode. Not just the call-back to classic Dragon Ball, but their conversation in the present, reflecting on how distant they've grown as fighters (while subtly insinuating about their long-time friendship as well), and then Krillin asking Goku to give him a serious punch just to get a taste of how much stronger he's gotten.
I love this moment for three reasons:
1. It's true to both characters and how they would act.
2. It actually addresses their relationship and how they've grown over the years.
3. This is exactly along the lines of what I want to see when I say that the series needs to evolve rather than relying on nostalgia as a crutch. I love Toriyama's manga to death, but Toriyama isn't going to write every episode of this series, and even if he would, he's not going to be around forever. If this franchise is going to successfully continue without him, it has to show new strengths from different writers. This genuinely heartfelt moment that we got was unlike anything that Toriyama himself would write. It's not the type of moment that you'd expect from Dragon Ball, yet it's still so good and well-written and well-executed. And that's the best kind of thing that this new series really needs in order to stand on its own.
Basically, more writing like this, as well as more great scenes that aren't exclusively just like what we normally associate with Dragon Ball.
The rest of the episode was really good as well. More like this, please, Toei.
It was indeed a great moment. The Goku/Krillin friendship was something that became really downplayed during the Z part of the series, so to see it readdressed in such a way was really refreshing and wonderful. I also like the idea that Krillin was wondering whether he made the right decision about giving up martial arts and experiencing Goku's punch has reigntied his passion for it, which I hope to see followed up upon.
Sounds like this is the episode for me.
Uh-oh, I can see this episode adding tons of fuel to the criticisms of Goku-haters. To be fair, it's completely in character for him, but it does really make him seem like a bit of a selfish dick in cases like this where he flat-out just runs out on everyone to train. Still, I did find it genuinely funny that the show completely acknowledged that character flaw of his in this episode, though he got off a bit too easy. I don't expect it, but it'd be interesting if they found a way to subtly develop his character a bit over the course of the show in order to make him a bit more empathetic towards his friends and family (though, once again, to be fair, Chi-Chi was the only person really against him leaving in the first place).
I'm also probably in the minority on this one, but I actually enjoy the filler scenes that deal with friends and family actually acting like friends and family for a change, without a dire situation in the works. It's one of the few additions to the DBZ anime that I actually appreciated, since it makes the characters feel a bit more human and relatable, and it's unlike most other actions shows that feel that some high-stakes situation needs to be going on with just about every episode in order to be good. It's a good thing for characters to have breathing-room from time to time, IMO.
Goku was totally in character in that episode. I liked how the show presented it as a flaw, but most of the characters didn't really care except for Chi Chi, and even she just gives up after everything was all said and done.
I also like scenes showing the characters in their downtime and just hanging out and doing regular people stuff. It's definitely very humanizing, and just refreshing to see because of how rarely we got scenes like that in the manga.
I liked the episode quite a bit. My favorite parts were probably the montage showing Goku staring at the phone waiting for Bulma's call and him repeatedly interrupting Whis' meal to see if he's done before he even starts eating it. Some very funny and enjoyable scenes there. This week's episode promises more good antics, and the long overdue introduction of Champa, so I'm quite looking forward to it. The upward streak for this show continues.
So, it looks like even when you are literally training among gods in the DB-verse, you can't escape daily chores. That's a nice little callback to Master Roshi's training way back when the concept of Goku being an alien was non-existent, and he literally only possessed human levels of power (by DB standards).
Anyways, we're unfortunately bound to retread the DBZRF plot, which means that we won't get too much new content for the next few episodes. But at least we finally got introduced to Champa and Vados, and can start speculating on what his plan is. If you've read up to date with the manga, he proposes a tournament of people from his Universe fighting Goku and the others for the posession of Universe 7's Earth. However both the anime and the manga have made it clear that he's searching for something behind Beerus's back, and leveling entire planets in order to do so, which means that this whole tournament deal is clearly a ruse and he's up to something else. What exactly that might be is pretty much anyone's guess.
This kind of brings back nostalgic memories of Toonami from when I was always watching DB and DBZ on a daily basis, and my older brother and I would talk for quite a while about the episode to figure out what would happen next. It was a ton of fun to do that....until my brother discovered the internet, and subsequently the existence of spoilers, and then proceeded to tell me all about cool reveals like Trunks coming from the future or the fact that there was a time-skip after the Cell Saga and that Super Saiyan 3 along with character fusion were actually things that existed in the story. I still enjoyed the series immensely, but that killed a lot of the element of surprise that I used to experience from it.
So Goku buried the hatchet with another Piccolo. (https://twitter.com/JamesMarstersOf/status/660665329274613761)
Toonami Asia has already picked up Dragon Ball Super. (http://toonamifaithful.com/press-release-toonami-asia-picks-up-dragon-ball-super)
And it's the English dub, too.
While the latest
Super was mostly a re-tread of the first 10 minutes of ROF, scenes in the episode, the next episode preview, and leaked upcoming episode titles indicate there will be some changes made to the storyline, including Trunks and Goten meeting Jaco and their potential participation in the fight with Freeza, as well as the surprising return of
Spoiler
Captain Ginyu, who will apparently switch bodies with Tagoma around episode 22!
I'm definitely down with both of these additions. It will make this ROF stuff feel like less of a retread of the movie, and I just know seeing that particular character return is going to lead to a lot of fun comedic shenanigans. I hope he doesn't get killed off for good, because I just have to imagine the potential in him switching sides and teaming up with Jaco, as they seem like they'd make a great comedic pair considering their mutual interests. But most likely he'll probably just return to normal after the end of the arc, we'll see. Really, this one addition has me way more excited and interested in the
Super re-telling of ROF than it has any right to be. :il_hahaha:
Quote from: Daikun on November 10, 2015, 05:58:48 AM
Toonami Asia has already picked up Dragon Ball Super. (http://toonamifaithful.com/press-release-toonami-asia-picks-up-dragon-ball-super)
And it's the English dub, too.
It's
a english dub, one specifically produced for asian markets. FUNi has confirmed they are not involved with it, and there are no plans for a NA release of
Super at this point in time.
You know, even though I only recently re-read Dragon Ball up through the Namek arc (I still have yet to re-read through the Cell and Buu sagas), I can't recall a scene where Ginyu got off of planet Namek before it exploded. Toriyama just kind of seemed to forget about him after he turned into a frog. Did he escape the destruction of the planet in the anime? Because I haven't seen that version in a long time.
Also....did the writers just pull the three-wishes rule out of their asses? The last time that I checked, it was two at a time for the Earth Dragon Balls. I wouldn't mind so much if they actually did something interesting with the third wish other than modifying the Pilaf-gang's gag from the movie. Though, it might become a plot point later on, but it's an inconsistency with continuity that kind of bugs me, personally.
Other than that, even though this is a retread of DBZRF, the general quality of the episode is still significantly better than it was for the BOG arc. Could Toei actually be effectively listening and responding to criticism for once? Or, have I just fallen into an alternate reality of some sort?
In the manga we never see what happened to Ginyu, but in the anime, he was wished off of Namek alongside everyone else and was shown living in Bulma's greenhouse for a while. At some point before the Android arc he went off globe-trotting, and had small cameos in the series where he showed here and there in random places after that.
According to Daizenshuu 4 and a scene in the manga where Piccolo and Dende comment on Bulma reviving the people Majin Vegeta killed in the Buu arc, the dragon balls being able to grant three wishes normally but reduced to two when a wish is used to revive a large number of people is actually proper canon. The movie was the one that actually made a continuity error. Though I do agree that they should have used that extra wish for something more substantial than just tacking something onto the Pilaf gang gag.
The latest Super has the exact opposite problem that I had with the BOG stuff. I would've liked to see more scenes and content that weren't in the movie. Freeza's training is the obvious one, but also more scenes with Jaco interacting with Trunks and Goten, scenes showing why Tenshinhan didn't bring along Yamcha and Chiaotzu, and why Buu didn't come. There's a lot more they could've done to flesh out this material and improve upon ROF, but with these last two episodes they just been rehasing the movie scene for scene with the exception of Freeza not killing Tagoma and the setup for Captain Ginyu's return. A part of me is glad this isn't being dragged out like the BOG stuff was, but they could be doing so much more with this material than they are, and it's disappointing.
I believe that Toei is responding to fan criticism about wanting them to get to new material faster. Had the BOG arc actually had more effort put into it with interesting filler, I don't think that people would be complaining as much, but now it looks like Toei is scared of viewers losing interest and thus are rushing to just get to the new material.
Personally I was never fond of them doing a recap of the movies in the first place. I would have rather had them wait until they could show DBZRF on TV like they did for BOG, and then everyone would have a chance to catch up, and Super could start fresh with brand new material.
Now that's actually an interesting change from the movie. Tagoma literally shoots Sashimi in the back in order to severely wound Gohan before he turns Super Saiyan, and Trunks and Goten are actually headed to the battle (and I'd love to see Freeza's reaction to two young-looking versions of both Saiyans who defeated him). On top of that, it looks like Captain Ginyu will end up taking Tagoma's body, which may end up permanently reviving that character, something that could be interesting if they intend to fully utilize him beyond just this arc.
It's DBCEMBER again, and this time TFS is counting down the top 24 movies and specials; which is "technically" a best of list instead of a worst to best list since GT's movie/special would make 25 entries, and since that POS is edged out, this list can be called the top 24 by that fact alone.
Here's #24: Episode of Bardock (http://teamfourstar.com/video/dbcember-top-24-movies-and-specials-24/)
I have to agree with them on this one. The Bardock special from the 90's was one of the best pieces of original content to come out of the anime, IMO. It was good enough for even Toriyama to retroactively include the character in the manga's continuity since even he was impressed by the character and his story. What made it so special was going against lame tropes. Rather than being some extraordinary saint or part of some legendary bloodline, Bardock was really just an average to slightly above average warrior-class Saiyan, and his children Raditz and Kakarot (Son Goku) weren't anything inherently special, either. Goku only really became who he was through being raised by his adoptive grandfather Gohan, and through his various adventures on Earth. What made Bardock's short and simple story, as well as his status as a character, so appealing to fans was that very lack of being your typical hero story. Instead, Bardock is a cold-blooded killer just like most other Saiyans, who's only true allegiance is to his squad-mates. Seeing him essentially get "punished" by learning of the demise of his planet really cemented in the fact that he's not a good guy and won't get a happy ending. In the end he's really only trying to avenge his fallen squad by trying to kill Freeza, rather than doing it out of any noble obligation, and the result of it all is pathetically futile. Yet, the character was still fairly likable despite all of this since he was just a simple character that was neither hellbent on being a great hero or villain, but just doing what he needed to do.
You may or may not give a shit about the character, of course, but at least you could acknowledge the fact that his unconventional nature and doomed fate made him somewhat more interesting than most other typical anime-original content. The Bardock special in both the manga and anime just cheaply exploited the character's popularity without actually staying true to the character, or having any sense of heart or soul like in the original special. I always hated Episode of Bardock, and to take it a step further, as much as I adore Toriyama as a mangaka, I also have to agree with TFS on Dragon Ball Minus. Jaco was a fun short-story, but that extra chapter at the end of the manga which basically turned Bardock into Jor-El and made Kakarot out to be this special good-hearted child right from the get-go really felt so contrary to the true essence of both characters. And honestly, did anyone really care who Goku's mother was? Was anyone really dying to find that out? What made Goku special had less to do with where he came from and more to do with how he was raised and who he met on Earth. It seems like Toriyama pretty much forgot that when he wrote DBM.
I'm liking the changes made to Tagoma in
Super. I wonder if that was Toriyama's original plan for the character in a first draft of the film or something, but was cut out for time later down the line. Would make sense, and explain why he's prominent on the poster and promotional materials despite only being in the film for 10 minutes before getting killed off. I'm looking forward to Ginyu vs. Gotenks next week, and I'm hoping that he'll stick around after the arc is done. I always thought he was too fun of a character to kill off.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 02, 2015, 02:37:39 PM
It's DBCEMBER again, and this time TFS is counting down the top 24 movies and specials; which is "technically" a best of list instead of a worst to best list since GT's movie/special would make 25 entries, and since that POS is edged out, this list can be called the top 24 by that fact alone.
I don't know, I'd gladly take
Hero's Legacy over most DBZ movies.
Especially the
Broly sequels. :whuh:
Speaking of which, I was surprised to see them rank
Second Coming below
Bio-Broly, but yeah, it really is worse and it's only redeeming quality is the Father-Sons Kamehameha at the end. At least
Bio-Broly has Android 18 as a prominent and ass-kicking character going for it, though that still not nearly enough to make it watchable, much less a decent film.
As far as Bardock goes, yeah, no one needed
Episode of Bardock and
DB Minus, and I much prefer the original special and version of the character. I actually was interested in seeing who Goku's mother was, and I'm sure plenty of people were as well. But at the cost of Bardock's characterization? I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wanted that trade-off.
It's not so much that I was against seeing Goku's mother revealed (though just like in the case of Peter Parker's parents, I don't find that to be an integral part of his character), but rather that I didn't want to see a contrived special that retcons something which I actually liked in order to get to see that character.
The funny thing is that, had Toriyama written a special around her character back when it was still his main job to produce new Dragon Ball content every week, I have a feeling tha this chapter would look very different than it does now.
Speaking of Bio-Broly: http://teamfourstar.com/video/dbcember-top-24-movies-and-specials-21/
Yeah, no surprise, here. They pretty much flat-out came and said that this would be the next one on their list. I love how Kaiser says that he can't wait until he actually has more positive things to say other than "well, this isn't the worst of the movies or specials."
To be honest, though, most DBZ movies and specials are pretty mundane, boring stuff, IMO. Out of all of the pre-BOG movies, I'd say that the only one that I particularly found to be above average was The Path to Power, and even that is essentially just mash-up of the first few arcs of Dragon Ball, and not as good as those, at that. What makes it entertaining though is the excellent production values, combined with the spirit of Toriyama's characters, which makes even an inferior version of his work still stand out as something genuinely fun in its own right.
Anyways, if I had to rank the movies and specials myself, excluding the GT one, it'd be like this:
Ass:
24. Broly: Second Coming
23. Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans
22. Bio-Broly
21. Episode of Bardock
20. The Return of Cooler
19. Fusion Reborn
Mediocre:
18. Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!
17. Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan
16. Bojack Unbound
15. Super Android 13
14. Tree of Might
13. Lord Slug
12. The World's Strongest
11. Cooler's Revenge
10. Dead Zone
09. Wrath of the Dragon (Almost above average; this one actually had some promise, but was ultimately underdeveloped)
08. Mystical Adventure
07. Curse of the Blood Rubies
Above Average:
06. Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle
05. The Path to Power
Solid Entertainment:
4. Bardock: The Father of Goku
3. The History of Trunks (Easily the best thing to come out of the Cell Saga)
2. Battle of Gods
1. Resurrection F
It's no surprise that the two best movies on my list were the only two with Toriyama's direct involvement.
And yes, I know that BOG is popularly considered to be the better film, but having re-watched both numerous times, I can honestly say that DBZRF edges it out a bit for me since I find the whole film to be good fun, whereas BOG does drag quite a bit at parts, IMO.
My top 4 is exactly the same as yours and the rest of your top 9 would be mine in a slightly different order. After that, I don't know how I'd rank them, except for putting Second Coming, Bio-Broly, and Episode of Bardock at the bottom. The other DBZ movies are just one big pile of meh to me and I can't really place 'em one way or another.
Yeah, I didn't really try too hard, with those, to be honest. I just ranked them based on which movies/specials at least had one or two qualities or aspects or moments that I enjoyed about them more than others. On the whole, though, they are honestly just pretty boring affairs, and stuff that I could never personally bother to go and re-watch. The classic Dragon Ball movies always at least had some charm to them. I did rank Mystical Adventure and Curse of the Blood Rubies as mediocre, though, since those retreaded a bit too heavily on familiar material, without even really mixing it up in an interesting way like Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle or The Path to Power did. Still, on the whole, they are much better than all of the old-school DBZ movies.
The movies from the original series were a lot of fun. I wish we could have some movies from that era of DB again.
I wish Toriyama would follow suit with the previous two Dragon Ball Z films, and write some sort of fun side-story with the classic Dragon Ball characters during that timeline (even if it has to be in an alternate Universe, which is actually canon now).
Or, better yet, he could just write a Dr. Slump movie. Just forget plot entirely and go balls-out on comedy with a big animation budget. That'd be fucking awesome.
I agree that Sleeping Princess isn't great by any means, but really, THAT LOW! I at least had some fun with that movie. How on Earth is it more boring than The Return of Cooler or Super Android 13?
The Return of Cooler is at #19 on the list. I totally agree that it's crap, but again, how is Sleeping Princess worse than that?
18. Super Android 13
17. Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan
No arguments here. I especially agree with them 100% on Broly (we even ranked it in the exact same spot on the list, at that); he's a boring villain with a ridiculous and nonsensical backstory and a weak motivation for hating Goku (which would have been amusing if this movie was focused on comedy, though). I have never understood why he's such a massively popular anime original character. Unlike Bardock, who actually has a character to begin with, Broly is just a substanceless berserker, the least interesting kind of villain that there is.
So, DBZRF made #7 on the list. Oddly enough, I don't disagree with their assessment of the strengths and flaws of the movie. Rather, I don't understand how films like Fusion Reborn (which I personally think is fucking awful), Dead Zone, and The World's Strongest (both of which are fairly mediocre, in my book) could be be considered superior. I can't help but feel like TFS's love of those productions has a bit more to do with nostalgia than with how well they actually hold up now.
So....
http://www.polygon.com/2015/12/19/10627322/what-the-hell-is-dragon-ball-z-doing-in-an-ad-for-ford-cars
I have no idea what Dragon Ball Z has to do with cars, but apparently the Ford Focus is the officially endorsed motor vehicle of Dragon Ball.
I shall now await the inevitable product placement in Super.
Apparently I need to re-watch The World's Strongest, because aside from the good animation, I found mostly everything else about it to be merely average or decent. Nothing really stood out to me as great, personally.
I want this to happen, purely out of the mass confusion that will surely generate from a Vegeta statue built in front of a public high school. (https://www.change.org/p/ccisd-petition-for-clear-creek-hs-to-erect-a-vegeta-statue-in-honor-of-christopher-sabat-vegetaforclearcreekhs?source_location=update_footer&algorithm=recommended_view)
I'd sign if this was for Kuwabara.
I'd sign just for the shits.
Toriyama wasn't impressed with how DBS was handled either. (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/01/24-1/dragon-ball-creators-complicated-relationship-with-series-continues-with-comments-about-super) Of course that's not much of a surprise.
On the other hand, that book looks really cool. That's a lot of good manga artists drawing DB stuff! Sorachi drawing Bardock makes so much sense. I do wish Watsuki could have done one of Gohan, Vegeta, and Krillin, against the Ginyu Force-- that just seems like his style. Horikoshi's art is still great even in DB style.
It still pisses me off that some fans believe that Toriyama is to blame for Super's lack of quality. The guy has nothing more to do with it other than being an obligatory executive producer. He doesn't write the material for it.
Also, those tribute drawings are awesome.
So, is it just me, or is Hit's ability a rip-off of Diavolo's "Stando" from Vento Aureo/Golden Wind?
I say Diavolo instead of DIO's "Za Warudo!" since Hit specifically states that he is jumping through time rather than stopping it.
Hard to really call if a rip-off, since JoJo's characters are far from the only characters in anime/manga with time-altering powers. But they are similar in some respect. The key difference is that Diavolo isn't jumping through time - he erases time. Only Diavolo can see and remember what occurs during the time he's erased, but everyone else forgets because in fact that time no longer exists. This is why the effects of actions during the erased time don't effect anyone, and why Diavolo doesn't bother to directly attack others during the erased time, unlike Hit, who can attack people during his time jumps.
This looks interesting. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-04-22/dr-slump-voice-actress-lists-arale-role-in-dragon-ball-super/.101355)
I loved the crossover way back in Dragon Ball, so I'm eager to see Goku once again interact with the cast of characters from Penguin Island. I wonder if this version of Arale can crack a planet in half and throw it at the moon with ease....
Awesome! :swoon::joy: Here's hoping more characters from both series interact with each other this time. There's lots of character interactions that would be a goldmine for comedic possibilities, like Mr. Satan and Suppaman, Pilaf and Nikochan, etc. Though, thinking about it, I wonder if the Slump cast is going to have aged at all since the last time Goku met them was 30+ years ago in the DB timeline. Obviously, Arale and Obatchaman would still look the same because they're robots and all, but it might be interesting to see grown up versions of the other characters, especially Turbo.
Alright, now this was a good episode of Super. It ended the fight and tournament in a way that's both unconventional but also feels VERY Dragon Ball in nature. I also like how many of the new characters, much like Beerus and Whis, aren't typical one-dimensional villains. It feels much fresher to have dynamic interactions between characters like this rather than just pure good versus evil, which can be fun, but can also get very stale rather quickly if handled poorly. And also there's expanding the lore, in which we now see a new character which apparently even Beerus and Champa are afraid of.
I really hope that Hit becomes a recurring character. He's definitely a pretty interesting being, and besides wanting to see the full-extent of his techniques and assassination fighting style, I really just want to see how his character arc can unfold from this point. I'm also really excited to see where the story goes for the first time since this new arc started. Why is the King of Everything here now? What will Goku and the others wish for with the Super Dragon Balls? How will the characters of the Sixth Universe factor into the future story-lines of this series? This is the kind of Dragon Ball that I want to see more often.
You see, I'm not all about bashing this show and saying that classic Dragon Ball was superior in every way (though, to be fair, it totally is so far), and as a huge Dragon Ball fan to begin with, I by no means want to be down about the stuff that this show does. It may appear that way, but that's not the case. I simply want something that manages to show some inventiveness and creativity while also capturing the core elements of what made Dragon Ball such an engaging manga and anime in the first place. This episode managed to give me that sort of feeling which I have always desired from this show.
The writer of Dragonball: Evolution had offered a formal apology. (http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/news/dragonball-evolution-writer-apologizes-to-fans/)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on May 03, 2016, 05:04:46 PMThe writer of Dragonball: Evolution had offered a formal apology. (http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/news/dragonball-evolution-writer-apologizes-to-fans/)
Damn. That must've been hard for him to say. It reminded me of when Joel Schumacher apologized for
Batman & Robin. I'm glad he went out and said it.
He can blame himself if he wants and its nice he admitted he screwed up, but he's not the one I hold responsible. That idiot Final Destination 3 director could have improved upon the script, and Fox only rushed this out into production thanks to that idiotic WGA Strike. It would have been stuck in development hell if not for that I believe.
Quote from: Peanutbutter on May 04, 2016, 02:10:13 PMFox only rushed this out into production thanks to that idiotic WGA Strike.
That's interesting. I never heard anything about the strike affecting the movie. I thought they rushed it out because they were sitting on the license and it was going to expire soon.
Although a quick search states that the timeline of filming matches up with the strike, so I guess it's both.
Quote from: Daikun on May 04, 2016, 02:19:46 PM
Quote from: Peanutbutter on May 04, 2016, 02:10:13 PMFox only rushed this out into production thanks to that idiotic WGA Strike.
That's interesting. I never heard anything about the strike affecting the movie. I thought they rushed it out because they were sitting on the license and it was going to expire soon.
Although a quick search states that the timeline of filming matches up with the strike, so I guess it's both.
Yeah, I think that's why they rushed it through. But if not for the strike, I don't think they'd given a crap. They were beyond desperate at the time to make something that would keep them afloat.
Dragon Ball Super's next arc is called the Future Trunks arc and will begin in June. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-05-09/dragon-ball-super-anime-starts-future-trunks-arc-in-june/.101915)
Now there's playing with fire.
As one of my top five favorite DB characters, I hope that they do him justice in this series. As much as I was pretty "meh" on the Cell arc, I genuinely loved almost every moment that Future Trunks was on screen. He's arguably one of the more nuanced and well-developed characters in the franchise.
It'll be interesting to see Jaco's reaction to him since he's against time travel.
I loved this episode. I don't care if it's basically filler, it had more genuine humor and heart to it than even most story-related episodes in this show so far, IMO.
I am slightly disappointed, though, that Arale's cameo was so brief, but at least it was a funny gag. I have a feeling that it would've worked better if it had come as a complete surprise, though, rather than having her VA announce it ahead of time.
Here's the visual:
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.ak.crunchyroll.com%2Fi%2Fspire4%2F1c7ddc74ea0e362ed8fda33e5dfea1f61464870792_full.jpg&hash=34762cce927db67472dd83ad4aa07d83469b85e6)
Toriyama comments:
QuoteNext up in Dragon Ball Super, adult Trunks will be putting in his first appearance in a long time! I put together this story based on a suggestion from the editorial office. Like last time, I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.
Despite being so strong, Trunks barely escapes from the future with his life.
The future was supposed to be at peace, so what in the world could have happened!?
And what about this foe too strong even for Trunks to handle, Black Goku!? (Well, you can probably imagine what he's like just based off the name)
It's the start of a battle that surpasses time and space, and drags in the God of Destruction, Kaioshin, even the Omni-King! Many mysteries will be revealed!
There's some confusing bits with time changing here and there, but just bear with me. It should definitely turn out to be a fun story!
Even I haven't checked the final script yet.
Let's enjoy this together (laughs)!!
And here I was thinking that Black Goku would be an African spin on the character (though I guess we have Uub for that). :>
Is that Future Mai with Trunks? Interesting, seeing as how the events of Battle of Gods couldn't have happened in Future Trunks's timeline, unless this is somehow a different Future Trunks (I really hope not, though). For some reason, Toriyama really seems to like that pairing.
Apparently it's the same Future Trunks. This just takes places after the androids and Cell were destroyed. I always wondered what he would face after they were gone, so I'm glad to see Toriyama decided to tell us.
I wonder if they are going to address which Universe Future Trunks comes from. Seeing as how his timeline was unaffected by Gohan defeating Cell, he obviously can't be from the same Universe.
I also hope that we get to see plenty of interactions between Future Trunks and his child version.
My question is: why is Trunks' hair blue? :thinkin:
Weird that Future Mai looks so young, since unless Future Pilaf used the Dragon Balls to make themselves younger like they did in the main timeline, she should look much older than that. Unless that's not her but just someone who's related/looks like her.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2016, 11:05:41 AM
Apparently it's the same Future Trunks. This just takes places after the androids and Cell were destroyed. I always wondered what he would face after they were gone, so I'm glad to see Toriyama decided to tell us.
I always wondered how Future Trunks would have dealt with Buu if he was awakened in his timeline. I know that
Shin Budokai: Another Road explored that idea, but it also included Cooler and Broly in it, so it's most likely non-canon.
Quote from: LumRanmaYasha on June 02, 2016, 01:27:24 PM
My question is: why is Trunks' hair blue? :thinkin:
I'm pretty sure you know why. ;)
Quote from: LumRanmaYasha on June 02, 2016, 01:27:24 PMQuote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2016, 11:05:41 AM
Apparently it's the same Future Trunks. This just takes places after the androids and Cell were destroyed. I always wondered what he would face after they were gone, so I'm glad to see Toriyama decided to tell us.
I always wondered how Future Trunks would have dealt with Buu if he was awakened in his timeline. I know that Shin Budokai: Another Road explored that idea, but it also included Cooler and Broly in it, so it's most likely non-canon.
Future Trunks was my favorite character from the Z half of Dragon Ball, mostly because of how great his character and development was. He was also the best fighter, since he always went 100% and for the kill right off the bat. But there were so many ways they could have gone with this.
Couldn't Goku have gone back to his timeline with him, found the Namekians, and used the Dragon Balls to restore everything after Cell was gone? Now that he is basically the strongest person in the universe, does he train a new force to protect the world from future attacks? How will his future look when he passes on? What about Buu?
One of the biggest misses with GT was that we never saw any of that. I still haven't had the chance to see Super yet, but this would certainly get me eager to see it. Especially if it involves the main cast traveling to HIS future this time. That would be a great twist on how it worked in the Cell saga.
Well, I don't think his blue hair necessarily means he can turn Super Saiyan God, since if it he was in that state his hair should be Super-Saiyan styled. Maybe Toriyama or the show's character designers just wanted to change it, for some reason.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2016, 10:22:57 PM
Future Trunks was my favorite character from the Z half of Dragon Ball, mostly because of how great his character and development was. He was also the best fighter, since he always went 100% and for the kill right off the bat. But there were so many ways they could have gone with this.
Couldn't Goku have gone back to his timeline with him, found the Namekians, and used the Dragon Balls to restore everything after Cell was gone? Now that he is basically the strongest person in the universe, does he train a new force to protect the world from future attacks? How will his future look when he passes on? What about Buu?
One of the biggest misses with GT was that we never saw any of that. I still haven't had the chance to see Super yet, but this would certainly get me eager to see it. Especially if it involves the main cast traveling to HIS future this time. That would be a great twist on how it worked in the Cell saga.
There's definitely a lot of untapped potential stories to tell with Future Trunks and his timeline. It did always strike me as odd that they never tried to arrange to visit Namek in Future Trunks' timeline to resurrect Shenron to revive everyone the Androids killed. How he would deal with Buu without anyone else's help is a whole other can of worms too. It's made for interesting "what-if" scenarios in games and stuff, but it's nice we're finally getting a canon follow-up on his story after all this time. I also hope everyone visits his future this time, since that would be a nice change of setting and an appropriate contrast to the Cell arc.
One interesting think to note about "Black Goku" is that his earrings are totally the Potara earrings that the Supreme Kais wear. The synopsis for the arc mentioned the Supreme Kais would be important to the story in this arc, so I'm curious to see how they tie in and are related to this "bizarro" Goku. I heavily expect the arc will tie into
Xenoverse in some form as well, especially with the sequel coming out soon, and possibly involving the Supreme Kai of Time in the story and showing Future Trunks as a member of the Time Patrol/joining the Time Patrol. I could definitely see "Black Goku" being somehow created by Towa to mess with him for interfering with her schemes.
Quote from: LumRanmaYasha on June 02, 2016, 01:27:24 PMMy question is: why is Trunks' hair blue? :thinkin:
I thought about that too, but it also reminded me that I never used to understand why Trunks had purple hair when neither of his parents nor any of his known ancestors did. Of course, later I discovered that Toriyama colored Bulma's hair purple in the manga except for in the first chapter in which she had blue hair, which explains why the anime featured her hair in that color but then gave Trunks the correct color in correspondence with the manga. As for the promotional art, it's anyone's guess as to why they decided to change Trunks's hair color. Maybe it changed naturally as he got older, or he decided to dye it for whatever reason.
Anyways, both the announcement of this Future Trunks arc as well as the recent DBZA episode got me thinking about a major plot-hole in the Cell arc that has always bugged me to an extent and which I have never seen anyone else address.
So, as we know, Future Trunks traveled both through time and multiverse to Universe 7 in order to warn Goku and the others about the androids and hopefully use them to find a way to defeat them. While it was never explicitly stated that way in the story or by Toriyama himself, most fans accept that explanation as the only one that makes sense as to how Trunks could influence the events of the past without it having any effect on his own timeline. And to its credit, it's actually an ingenious way for Toriyama to avoid the time-paradox problem that plagues a ton of time-travel stories (I'm looking at you, LOT), whether he intended for it to be that way or not.
All of that stuff is fine and good. But then he complicates things later on in the story when he introduces Cell, who himself came from another alternate universe in which Trunks had defeated the androids and was going back to tell Goku and the others about it, indicating that he had already visited them before....except only one Future Trunks ever showed up in Universe 7 at all. That other version of Trunks never met with the DB cast that we as readers/viewers knew at that point. Now, you could try and explain this away by proposing that the Trunks of that universe time-traveled to another universe similar to that of Universe 7's cast and history. However, that explanation falls apart when Cell uses the time machine after killing Trunks and takes it to Universe 7, the same one in which the version of Future Trunks that we know showed up. If that time machine was programmed to set its destination for a different universe, then it should've gone there instead. So, how exactly did it end up appearing in the DB universe that we know, then?
And yes, this is me both being a huge DB fan/nerd while simultaneously just having too much time on my hands to nitpick meaningless BS. :D
I dunno. Maybe that Cell was from another universe.
It's time travel. It never makes 100% sense. :D
I always assumed Bibidi and his minions were killed by the androids in Future Trunks' timeline since by the time Future Trunks travels to the past they would have already come and gone. So Buu is still sleeping somewhere in that world.
I wonder about that. As strong as the androids from Future Trunks' timeline were, I doubt they would've been able to take on Dabura, who's supposed to be about as strong as Perfect Cell was. And Babidi's magic would have likely been strong enough to manipulate them into being his minions if he wanted, since again Dabura is much stronger and he was able to control him. Though, perhaps Babidi didn't manage to manipulate Dabura in that timeline, never crossed paths with the Androids, and the Supreme Kai of Trunks' timeline succeeded in killing him and stopping Buu's resurrection since there wasn't enough power to revive him before they destroyed his cocoon. There's a lot of ways that could've gone down. In fact, I wonder if the circumstances involving stopping Buu's resurrection in Trunks' timeline play into "Black Goku's" origin...
I hope they clarify whether Future Trunks' timeline is indeed one of the 12 universes, or just a parallel version of universe 7. Wouldn't make how the timelines work any easier to understand, but it could at least shed some light on that "how did Cell travel to a universe his Trunks shouldn't have been to" plot hole. :sweat:
I'm excited by the prospect of having the Kais play a big part in this upcoming story arc. Dragon Ball is always at its best when it's expanding its mythology and lore in interesting ways. That was the best part about Battle of Gods, and probably why that film resonated far more with audiences than RF did (even though I personally enjoyed RF more).
I'm also a little worried, though, that the writers may mishandle these characters and concepts and ruin a potentially awesome story-line idea by trying to focus too much on fan-service. What I mean is how they've handled certain things in the past. Take how they did the RF arc, for example. In the show, they brought back Captain Ginyu and I was excited by the prospect of what they could do with that character....and then they did absolutely nothing with him. They killed him off as little more than a throwaway joke, and it really got on my nerves. Later on in the arc they had Piccolo sacrifice himself for Gohan and die in the process as a callback to the iconic moment from the Saiyan arc, and that one really set me off. It's like the writers were saying: "Hey guys, remember that epic moment from the old series? Isn't it awesome to see it again!?" Except there was no sense of weight or emotional stakes to any of it. Literally right after it happens Goku nonchalantly remarks that they'll just revive Piccolo with the Namekian Dragon Balls, and what do you know, come the Champa arc it's like it never even happened. It didn't accomplish anything like further Piccolo's character arc or affect the plot in any way like it did in the classic series. It feels as though the writers didn't even understand what made that scene so great in the first place, but rather only knew that it was considered to be iconic for....reasons. My point being that they clearly just took popular and iconic things from classic Dragonball and utilized them as nothing more than blatant fan-service.
And with Future Trunks, I'm not surprised to see him being heavily featured in the next arc since clearly Toriyama and the writers know that he's an incredibly popular character among the fanbase. However, whether they actually deliver a story worth telling about the character remains to be seen.
To be clear, I'm not trying to bash the show, here. I'm both excited and very hopeful for what's to come in the near future for this show. However, I'm also being reasonably cautious with my expectations as this show's track record has been far from consistent, IMO.
I'm almost wishing they made this a third film first, just because Toriyama would have written it straight out himself.
Just not crazy about the re-adaptions of the films.
I honestly would've been fine if they just contniued the story as a series of films in general, rather than lowering the budget and going the TV show route. If they wanted to tell longer story-lines, they could have done the same thing that they're doing with Digimon Adventure Tri and utilize multiple films to tell one major story arc. That's just wishful thinking on my part, of course, and clearly a TV series is much cheaper to make and much less risky in that it will almost definitely return them a net profit, but having a life as a long-running film series could have been really cool.
Damn it! What a tease! It looks like we're finally about to get into some serious shit! I'm so pumped!
It's funny how a good preview can so easily wash out the bland taste that I got from the mediocre Copy Vegeta mini-arc.
Preview! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukvbOPVCtGw)
As far as I'm concerned, this is the first official episode of Dragon Ball Super. While I've liked certain episodes of the show before, most of it felt like little more than glorified filler to me. This is exactly the kind of thing that I wanted to see from this series since day one: a real progression of the plot and mythology of the story and characters, in addition to the stakes being raised to a level in which we actually care to see how the story unfolds. While I did enjoy RF for its humor and action, I always felt that the lack of Freeza being an actual threat really held that movie back from being as great as it could have been. Right away we see that Black doesn't fuck around and he manages to off two people close to Future Trunks, without Trunks being able to do anything about it. The situations is pretty desperate as he needs to find a way to time-travel back to Universe 7's past before he gets taken out as well, but since he's not near his time machine and Bulma's lab was destroyed, he is stuck in a pretty bad bind now that Black has caught up with him.
I have a few minor gripes about logistical things here and there, but that's nothing new for Dragon Ball, and on the whole the team behind this show has finally done a good job of getting me hooked into wanting to see more. I look forward to what the future of this arc holds in store for these characters.
I actually saw this, making it the first episode of DBS I've seen. It was nice seeing Future Trunks again, especially seeing his future contrasted with what was going on in the main universe.
I have a bit of a theory on how the time travel works, at least as far as Future Trunks. The way they went out to explain the number of universes makes me wonder if some of them are created by time travel. Like, the reason Future Trunks couldn't change the past was because he actually traveled to another universe and back in time. The way his time machine worked meant it could only be sent to that universe. They essentially split the universes by interfering with the time line. The reason the future didn't change was because he wasn't fighting the androids of his universe which also shows why some things happened differently in both timelines. I actually wonder if there were other differences in Future Trunks timeline, but we just never heard them. Maybe we always assumed he was from the same universe, but he actually wasn't.
What if the reason there are not that many universes anymore is because the ones that were similar but interfered with by time travel were somehow merged together again? It seems like a way of keeping track of "redundant" universes. Though how time travel affects the universes probably will be explained soon enough.
Of course I'm probably wrong, but it's fun to think about.
You picked a good place to start. There are some good parts before this episode, but nothing that really stands out as a must-watch, IMO.
The multiverse theory that you are talking about has actually been around for a long time; since well before the concept of multiverses became canon to Dragonball-lore, in fact. Most fans tend to follow that theory to explain how time-travel works in Dragonball. I also believe in that theory, except for the part about time-travel creating new universes since it has already been explained in DB-lore that multiple other universes have always existed. Hopefully DBS will confirm that Future Trunks is from a different universe pretty soon.
The funny thing about DB following that logic is that if true, it's probably one of the few really smart bits of logic that Toriyama has utilized in the series. It's also a concept that Science-Fiction writers have used before. In the Michael Chrichton novel Timeline, the time machine that they use is explained in detail to work by sending the occupants to an alternate universe's version of the past. I wouldn't be surprised if Trunks's machine works the same way.
To the surprise of absolutely no one, viewership for the series has seen a significant increase with the start of the Future Trunks/Goku Black arc: http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/dragon-ball-super-tv-ratings-spiked-thanks-future-trunks-black-goku/
So it looks like Trunks and the Pilaf Gang are classmates and have become pretty good friends with each other. I actually kind of like this dynamic, though I wish that Goten was also part of the group. I like how it was U7 Trunks to be the first one to encounter the unconscious Future Trunks, and I like seeing Bulma's very motherly concern over Future Trunks despite not having seen him in years (same with Vegeta's concern as well). Even though he was only a part of one arc, you can tell that Future Trunks formed a bond with the U7 characters and even after not seeing him for years, everyone still really cares about him.
I predicted that when he woke up and first saw U7's Goku again he would instinctively confuse him for Black and attack him. That said, judging by the preview for the next episode, it looks like he won't immediately snap out of it and they may fight a bit. That'll be interesting since it will show us how strong Future Trunks currently is. Judging by his transformation and where he was at the end of his arc in the manga and DBZ, he couldn't be any more powerful than a normal SSJ2, and that's assuming that he kept training and worked his way up to fully mastering that level, which I doubt since he was clearly a lot more buff at the end of the Cell arc, and even if his slimmer form is just an art-style decision, it would make sense if he slacked off from training (much like Gohan did between the Cell and Buu arcs), since there would be no world-threatening events to be ready for between him killing the androids and Black appearing. Also, considering that when he transformed, there was no electrical discharge present (which the anime has always used to distinguish an SSJ2 transformation from a regular one) it's actually rather likely that his power may be less than what it was and he only managed to turn into a normal SSJ.
The whole point of figuring this out is that it would give us somewhat of a gauge of how powerful Black is. Even if he is a Makaioshin, we have learned already that the Kais aren't necessarily all that physically powerful in the grand scheme of things. Some can clearly use magic and possess unique abilities that no regular being can use, but in terms of raw fighting power none of the U7 Kais seem to be any stronger than an SSJ. From what we've seen of Black, he's clearly stronger than Trunks, and most likely even if Trunks is an SSJ2 after all, Black would still be stronger. That said, he didn't really seem to be taking it easy on Trunks, either, and Trunks almost took him by surprise with his startup attack. It did seem like Black was actually putting some effort into their fight, and the fact that he hasn't been able to kill him before, even if Trunks did run away each time, indicates that he's not THAT much more powerful than an SSJ2, so it feels like he wouldn't really be a match for the current Goku and Vegeta of U7, and of course not Beerus or Whis either. If that's the case, then I'm wondering how he could possibly end up being a threat to U7 once he makes his way over in the next episode, as the previews indicate.
On a side note, I like the touch of Future Trunks using the Masenko, which it makes sense that he knows since Future Gohan was his master and clearly would have taught it to him. It has been a long time since I've watched DBZ so I forget if he ever used it there, but I definitely don't remember him using it in the manga, unless the translation that I read merely just didn't feature any of his attack names in that way. At any rate, it's a nice little touch and bit of fan-service.
I'm definitely still very much on board with this arc. I do think that it could stand to pick up the pace just a little bit, but at least it's not moving at a snails pace like the movie recap arcs did.
It's been very entertaining so far. This is definitely the kind of thing I wanted to see in a post-DBZ Dragon Ball series since GT disappointed so heavily.
I think the question is about how long it's been since Trunks defeated Cell. We really don't know how long it's been yet, and that would make a lot of difference as to Trunks' power. I tend to think he's the type that would still be training despite no threats since he's never lived in a world without one.
The Trunks arc sounds neat, but I'm still waiting for the eventual dub. No offense to Masako Nozawa since I admire her dedication to the role after so long, but hearing her voice coming out of Black Goku would feel off. Like when she played Bardock.
As much as I respect her iconic voice for Goku, I have always felt it to be a bit questionable that she would also portray his ENTIRE family. I don't think that Bardock, Gohan, or even Goten needed to sound like slightly tonally altered versions of Goku.
So, the episode title for the next 4 episodes of Dragon Ball Super (after episode 49) have been officially revealed:
They are (minor spoilers):
Spoiler
#50. Goku Vs. Black
#51. Mai's Feelings, Transcending Time
#52. Gohan And Future Trunks
#53. Expose It! Black's True Identity
Assuming that those translations are accurate, we can speculate at least a little bit on where this story is headed in the near future.
Isn't Whis being a hypocrite here? He chastises Future Trunks for time-traveling since it could have incredibly bad repercussions in their timeline, but didn't he himself use time-travel in Resurrection F? It would have made sense if Jaco was there and said it, but not Whis who is just as guilty of it.
It really bugs me when writers overlook obvious stuff like that. Other than that, though, it was another really good episode. It's neat to learn what happened in-between the events of the Cell Saga and Black's appearance in Future Trunks's timeline. I also find it kind of funny how knowing Future Trunks's personality and how after the androids wrecked everything he would take all future threats more seriously, that he basically did what Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan should have done and killed off Dabura and Babidi before they could release Majin Buu. :D
Of course, as a result of that, he never managed to make it past the level of SSJ2. Not that it would've mattered much in this case since Future Trunks confirmed that Black is at the very least stronger than an SSJ3. Although, if Future Trunks was that impressed by Goku's SSJ3 form, I can't wait to see him flip his shit when he sees that Goku and Vegeta can both transform into SSJB and match his hair-color. :lol:
And there's the canon explanation. Future Trunks single-handedly defeated Dabura and Babidi before they unleashed Majin Buu. Future Trunks is still the man.
I'm really liking this arc so far. I really hope they get to explore the divergent timelines in future episodes. It's been a lot of fun so far.
One thing Whis brought up was that when time-traveling to the past, even doing something that seems insignificant (such as plucking a flower) could have a butterfly effect which could lead to pretty bad repercussions for that new timeline. Yet the timeline that Future Trunks traveled to in the U7 that we know has mostly prevailed until now, whereas his timeline seems to be the one that's continued to go to shit. So Whis's logic seems to be a bit in reverse here, doesn't it?
Or maybe Black's appearance in U7's current timeline is one of those negative affects of time travel. Well, it's food for thought at the very least. There's still a number of episodes left in this arc, so it definitely has time to explain a lot of unanswered questions.
I really liked seeing Future Trunks tear up when he saw present Bulma alive and well. I also liked seeing him interact with Beerus and Whis. I'm a bit disappointed that he didn't really have any significant reaction to seeing his younger self, or vice-versa. You'd think that they'd at least be curious enough to hold a conversation with each other.
This was a great episode! :joy:
We learn that apparently, the Ring of Time is only supposed to allow you to travel to the future and then return to the present. Yet somehow Black uses it to temporarily travel to the past before the time distortion pulls him back to his own timeline. It makes you wonder what's going on in that case. We also learn that despite him not being as strong as the current Goku or Vegeta, just by fighting Goku he has managed to pick up his fighting style and will likely increase in power dramatically by the next time that they meet. And he also strikes me as a clever villain since he had the foresight to destroy Future Trunks's time machine in order to prevent him from bringing Goku and Vegeta to take the fight to him in the future timeline.
I do have a small gripe with how they still didn't address how Whis is being a hypocrite in regard to chastising Future Trunks for time traveling. I was really glad at first to see Krillin bring up that Whis manipulated time. But then it turns out to be just a way of asking him if he can also travel to the future, to which Whis says that he can't. I was bummed out that nobody called out Whis for messing with time (granted, though, that it did save their asses). And yes, I understand the difference between what he and Future Trunks did. Future Trunks actively traveled through time, and through a great length of time at that. Whis re-winded time, which is technically different from time-traveling, but it's still affecting the natural progression of the timeline and it also conflicts with what Whis said in the previous episode about how time is something that must constantly be moving forward. So in that regard, he was still going against his own rules.
Putting that bit aside, though, I really liked the scene where Vegeta comforted Future Trunks and told him not to give up after his time machine was destroyed. But, by far the best part of the episode for me was when the writers (and consequently Bulma as a character) had a clear stroke of genius and brought back an unused plot point from WAY back in the Cell arc. Even I had completely forgotten about that other time machine that they had found in the forest and stored in a capsule to investigate it further. In that story arc, that particular time machine never came up again, but Bulma remembered that it was still there and figured that using that as a template and having access to her future self's notes, she could repair that into a working time machine for Future Trunks. So, in essence, it actually gave something from over 20 years ago a newfound sense of purpose. I love when writers do stuff like that.
Anyways, I think that it's safe to say that this arc is on the right track so far. In all honesty, while I didn't outright dislike the show, I was almost completely uninterested in the first two arcs which lazily retold the movies, except with way too much filler in the mix. Then came the Champa arc which to me was overall pretty average in quality, even if it did have its stand-out moments. And then we got that mini-arc which did absolutely nothing for me. But now with the Goku Black arc, we are finally getting the follow-up to the movies that I always wanted to see. This time around, you really get a sense that Toriyama and the writers are really just trying to tell us a good story and even develop the characters a bit more, and there is a lot of heart to this story arc already, which I found to be sorely lacking from the Champa arc with the exceptions of the Vegeta Vs. Cabba and Goku Vs. Hit fights.
What really feels so special to me about this arc (so far) though, is how it really leaves me eager in anticipation of each new episode. I really want to see how the story unfolds, and that brings me back to those classic Toonami days where I would watch shows like Dragon Ball/Z and Yu Yu Hakusho and couldn't stand to wait another day to see what happened in the next episode. For the first time in over a decade, I'm finally getting that feeling again with a new Dragonball TV anime, and there's a part of me that almost can't believe it. Perhaps I'm overselling the arc, and maybe it could falter later on, but for now I have to be honest and say that I unabashedly love the hell out of it with just the first four episodes. Good job Toei, you're actually not fucking this up for a change.
Cell's time machine was a great touch. I had completely forgotten about it.
I really liked the fight in this episode. Really clever. We got to see what Black was capable of, get a hint at who he was and his motivations, and set up the goal for this arc. I can't wait to see how Future Trunks learns more about what happened since he's been away. Seeing him react to the present has been lots of fun so far.
The interaction between Future Trunks and Vegeta has always been the best. It's not quite the same as it is with younger Trunks, mostly because you get the feeling that Vegeta legitimately regrets that he never got to help his son grow in the alternate timeline. It's like he's trying to make up for it.
It's hard to believe Toei is doing this. It's been surprisingly good so far, almost like it's straight out of a manga Toriyama wrote but never published.
Well, it wouldn't be a true Dragonball story arc if we didn't have retcons to deal with, of course. It felt rather jarring seeing Toei use the original DBZ footage for the flashbacks and then switch to modern animation for the new material that they added into those scenes. What's funny is that Dragonball is famous for having plot-holes that the characters never address. In this case they did address an apparent plot-hole and explained that Future Trunks actually left the other Time Machine with Bulma, but they actually didn't need to show a flash-back to explain that. Bulma or Future Trunks could have easily explained that in the present without the need for a flashback.
Anyways, that's about it for my nitpick of the week. Other than that, this was yet another really well put-together episode, and I love seeing how Vegeta is so pissed off at Black for killing off Future Bulma. It really shows how much he's grown as a character, and how much he cares about his family, even from an alternate timeline.
I've really been enjoying this arc, but I really can't wait to see the next episode. It looks like it with deal with Gohan from Future Trunks' timeline as well as this one and how different it turned out for him.
Should be really interesting.
This was a pretty cute episode, and the ending scene was a great character moment for Future Trunks. When you really think about it, he had been exposed to death, destruction, and chaos from a very young age, and he only ever had his mother and Gohan growing up, and only got to know Mai later in life. And over time all three of them met their ends (well, Mai is still alive, but he still thinks that she's dead). So when he sees this timeline's version of his old mentor living a happy and peaceful life with his family, he realizes that this is the king of better world that he's been fighting for. Before, he had no real concept of what having a proper family and living in peace was like, because even after destroying the androids, him and Bulma, along with the rest of society, were spending time trying to rebuild what they had lost, and didn't even get to completely do that before the threat of Black arose. So essentially, Future Trunks finally got a real chance to experience what he has always wanted but could never properly visualize before, and that gives him an even stronger motivation to fight.
That was a great character episode for Future Trunks. He'd never really had any downtime in his life before, and this was the first time. It does make me hope that Future Trunks can finally attain some peace sooner or later. He definitely deserves it.
Of course, it's thanks to him that this future ever came to be in the first place, since without him the androids would have destroyed it all. Now if only he could fix his own timeline.
I'm loving how there is a genuine sense of mystery to this arc. These last few episodes have been the complete and utter antithesis of the notions of the many naysayers and haters saying that the Dragon Ball franchise is nothing more than mindless pandering action with generic villains and recycled plots. This entire arc has been very story-driven thus far, and has focused far more on character development than on action. And Black clearly has a motive behind his actions that goes beyond doing evil things for the sake of being evil.
I'm really curious to see how exactly Zamasu is related to Black since Beerus and Whis are certain that they are one in the same. I also really admire how this arc is doing a good job of expanding upon the role that the Kaio-shin play in Dragon Ball's multiverse.
This video does a particularly good job of explaining the animation problems with Dragon Ball Super: http://youtu.be/jfHBrhMM5bk
To be clear, I'm enjoying the story of the current arc, but I still find the animation to be a really weak point for this series. Now, you may think that I'm still holding a grudge against the series for shit like episode 5 and other poorly animated episodes, but it's not just that, and this video explains better than I could why even when it's not absymal, the animation quality still feels lacking. It's due to poor direction.
That example comparing the remade version of Future Trunks's Super Saiyan transformation from THOT special really nailed the problem: there's no sense of mood or tone or ambience in anything. Upon comparing the modern take of that scene to the original from two whole decades ago, there isn't even any question as to which one looks visually more appealing and meaningful. Everything in Super is presented in some careless and indifferent way without any sense of weight or meaning behind any of it. In that way it's somewhat similar to Hunter X Hunter 2011 in comparison to the 1999 series. Even when the animation in Super isn't technically bad, it's also still a far cry from being good, and sadly that's not just in comparison to anime with much higher-end production values, but compared to older Toei animated series as well. Sure, they cut corners just as much back then as they do now, but the difference is that they were at least somewhat better at hiding that fact by utilizing good lighting and cinematography in episodes with more experienced artists behind them.
So when people try to defend the animation in Super by saying that it has gotten better, it ticks me off a bit because people are really just excusing sub-par animation as being good simply because it's not as shitty as it could possibly be. That logic just doesn't fly with me.
Putting that rant of mine aside, this was another entertaining episode that really did a lot to expand the lore and mythology of the Kaioshin. In general, I really like how the writers are making older elements of the franchise much more relevant again by bringing them into the forefront of this storyline.
Hell, I still think Z looks better than this one. The thick lines and colors just "looks" Dragon Ball to me. With Super, it just looks like the animation C-team (hopefully you know which one I mean. Their episodes looked like crap.) from Z and GT got a whole show to themselves. I hate it.
Holy Shit! This episode! :o
That animation. That music. That pacing. This is the best action that I've ever seen from the franchise. It even puts the movies to shame. :shakeshakeshake:
Trunks used the fucking FINAL FLASH for crying out loud! That's hardcore fan-service right there. :swoon:
Seriously, WTF, Toei? Where was this level of production quality for the last 56 episodes? :thinkin:
I wouldn't go that far, but it was a cool fight. Zamasu and Black are progressively becoming two of the best villains in the franchise. Will be interesting to see what Zuno tells Zamasu about the Super Dragon Balls will lead to the creation of Black.
I would. The movies are higher budget, but the CG looked cheap and the direction wasn't as tight, IMO (I enjoyed the action, but it had numerous issues). The animation here was still budgeted stuff, but it felt far more well choreographed and each landed hit felt like it had some serious weight and impact behind it. It reminds of DBZ scenes in which the fight animation was at its best, especially in some of the features.
I agree about Black and Zamasu. They are shaping up to be two of the best-written villains in the franchise, and certainly the best ones since Freeza; though to be fair, Cell and Majin Buu aren't incredibly high benchmarks to pass, even though I liked Imperfect Cell and find Majin Buu to have been a "fun" villain in his own right.
I do have to question a few things, though. Namely, how did Future Trunks's sword block Black's Ki-blade? And for that matter, how did he even put up a decent fight against Black and Zamasu without any God-Ki? I mean, it was super cool seeing him and Goku tag-team against Zamasu and Black, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that he'd be able to keep up with their pace at all. I could understand him getting in that first hit since it was a surprise, but after that is pretty questionable. It's also kind of baffling that a direct Kamehameha from Black didn't outright kill him (I can understand Goku surviving it, but not Future Trunks at his current level).
I was also going to question how Zamasu got to U7, but I don't think that it's too farfetched to assume that the Kaio-shin in general can travel across Universes at will.
Also, is GodTube a real thing, or was that just the fan-subbers having some fun? And where did Gowasu get stock footage of Dragon Ball Super from? :humhumhum:
Here (https://youtu.be/ezLIuTz7o1g) is an excellent video (the first in a series), briefly detailing the history of one of Dragon Ball Super's animation supervisors. Episode 2 was supposedly put up recently, but according to Ajay the ever-beloved Toei Animation had it taken down for "copyright infringement", even though these videos totally promote their best material. Fuck YouTube.
And this (https://youtu.be/-hHM-8QtmUE) video does a really good job of explaining the earlier animation problems of Super.
So, it looks like this arc's gearing up for its final act. I could be wrong, but it feels like we're around two-thirds of the way through it just based on its narrative structure so far. So I was wondering: for people keeping up with the show, what are your thoughts on it so far?
I'm not going to sit here and pretend like it's perfect; it definitely still harbors various notable flaws that have been affecting Dragon Ball Super since day one, but as a longtime Dragonball fan, I have really been enjoying this arc a lot, and find it to be a satisfying continuation to this franchise's historied mythology. In all honesty I'd easily call it my favorite post-manga content by far, so long as there isn't a major dip in quality before this storyline ends. It has traces of Toriyama's influence in it, while also feeling distinctly different from it in a way that feels like a subtle but necessary evolution from his writing style, which is what I feel Dragonball needs to continue doing if it's ever going to survive as a franchise without Toriyama always at the helm. What I mean is that only Toriyama can do Toriyama, but quite frankly it's obvious to see that his heart is no longer completely in the series. I mean, yes, he's trying seriously, but I haven't sensed that same passion that he clearly had back when he was writing the manga and the series was in its prime, and quite frankly I don't expect to ever get that back. However, Dragonball has for all intents and purposes become bigger than Toriyama himself, and whether we like it or not it's going to keep coming back so long as it makes Toei money; and judging by the high ratings and increasing merchandise sales generated by Super, Dragonball is still incredibly popular and profitable, so I don't see it outright going away anytime soon.
So, if we're going to get more Dragonball regardless of whether we want it or not, I for one want the new content to be as good and meaningful as possible, and without Toriyama doing 100% of the work, the franchise has to be updated. For me, the current arc of Dragon Ball has essentially taken a major step towards doing that the right way. But, that's just my opinion.
While I liked the movies and the Champa arc a lot, the Black arc is by far the best story to come out of the franchise since the manga ended. As far as the involvement of Toriyama goes, he came up with the outline of the arc like he did for Battle of Gods and the Champa arc, but it's written by someone else and that's fine and works because they've handled it well without losing what makes Dragon Ball feel like Dragon Ball. Toriyama doesn't have interest in writing and overseeing every story of the series himself at this point and eventually he won't be around to create more stories anyway, so it gradually does need to leave his hands and be confidently handled by others as the franchise goes forward. Also, not for nothing, but while I loved Resurrection F for it's action and humor, the actual story of it was pretty weak. Toriyama has great ideas, but he's not always a great writer, and isn't the only person capable of writing good stories for the DB universe.
I tend to compare Toriyama's writing style to Araki's, somewhat. They are both very different writers in terms of style and content, but one similarity that they do share is focusing more on the moment-to-moment beats of their stories rather than planning things out in advance, which both have admitted to rarely ever doing. This inevitably leads to plot-holes and such since they frequently either forget about past plot points or retcon them out when it's necessary to move their stories forward, but often make up for it by keeping you engrossed in what's happening in the here-and-now and diverting your attention away from thinking about the story as a whole too much. Of course, that isn't to say that they can't come up with great storylines. In Toriyama's case, part of the appeal of the manga is how the story arcs organically flow together, with one conflict naturally leading into another, and in this way the story can be kept feeling fresh and engaging without feeling too drawn out or repetitive (the anime unfortunately suffers in this regard whenever there's an over-abundance of filler stuck in-between arcs like with DBZ), and it's easy to overlook minor potholes and inconsistencies in this case. It makes sense given Toriyama's background as a gag mangaka, treating his stories the same way as he would a typical chapter of Dr. Slump: by building his story up throughout an arc just like he would build up a running gag until it would reach an inevitable climax/punchline, but then would move onto the next chapter without any downtime, and essentially did the same with his story arcs until much later into Dragonball's run. As far as Resurrection F goes, though, I do feel that Toriyama must have struggled with trying to tell a story with a finite amount of screentime alotted to him to do so. So instead he decided to focus more on action and comedy than story beats. That said, even RF still managed to nail down his moment-to-moment brand of entertainment.
In that way, you can tell from Super's more disjointed feeling between arcs that this is Toriyama being filtered through other writers, but it does feel like the writers have finally managed to finally pin down an effective way to convey Toriyama's stories in their own style without the resulting product feeling like it's actually trying too hard to mimick Toriyama's more traditional style of writing (which I feel held back earlier movies and arcs, to an extent).
That's an accurate assessment of Toriyama's writing style, and it's also probably why Toei's consistently failed to capture that je ne sais quoi quality of Toriyama's writing in their attempts to mimic it, like with the early episodes of Dragon Ball GT and the "Golden Freeza" arc of Super. But now both Super and Toytaro's manga version of the Black arc show that Toei has finally become comfortable with letting their writers execute the story in a way that Toriyama wouldn't, while still keeping true to the spirit of the series, which is probably why the current arc has worked so well. It is different from what Toriyama would probably have written, but it's a well-told and well-realized story in the Dragon Ball universe with a lot of thought put into it that develops the lore and characters and is not trying to regurgitate or pay blatant homage to old story beats to appeal to nostalgia.
Yeah, that's also how I feel about it. Granted, since Toriyama outlined the story it does have his creative DNA embedded within it at its heart (characters like Zuno and Gowasu are VERY Toriyama), but it still stands out in its own unique way. Namely with its villains. Both Zamasu and Black are interesting in how they clash with the rest of the characters given how un-Toriyama they are. What I mean is that even when Toriyama's stories and characters got more serious, he always had a certain in-joke of sorts for each of them which was a part of their very nature, and this was also true of his villains. For example: Tao Pai Pai was very overly-particular about little things, Freeza was based off of a realestate agent and came off just as much as a crooked businessman as he did a legitimate galactic overlord, Androids 17 and 18 were just a couple of teenage brats who happened to have way too much power on their hands, Majin Buu, supposedly the ultimate evil in the Unuverse at that point, was really just a big kid at heart who needed an appropriate adult figure guiding him (cue Mr. Satan), and Beerus is a destroyer god who's honestly more interested in either eating or sleeping than actually doing his job, whereas Whis is potentially the strongest being in Universe 7 but waits on Beerus like a personal servant (OK, the last two clearly aren't villains, but they are introduced that way early on). Comparatively, both Zamasu and Black lack this quality, which is clearly an intentional decision on the writers' part in order to make them feel more distinct, and it works. They definitely don't feel like anything that Toriyama would ever write, yet they are still well-written villains all the same (at least so far), IMO.
Zamasu and Black are definitely unique in how nuanced they are, compared to the relatively more straightforwardly evil or goofy villains Toriyama tended to employ. That they have an ideological reason for doing what they do is especially atypical of Toriyama's previous villainous characterizations. Not to say they're particularly complex characters morally, but in contrast to previous DB villains, they have motivations beyond simply wanting to take over the world, becoming stronger, or having fun.
Well, that was....dark. :whuh:
So, bringing back the Mafuba is one thing, but Master Roshi teaching something to Goku for the first time in literally decades? Now that's old-school Dragonball.
Crunchyroll, Daisuki, and AnimeLab will now be simulcasting Super starting October 22nd. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-10-19/dragon-ball-super-to-simulcast-on-crunchyroll-daisuki-animelab/.107853)
Well, it's about fucking time. I'm surprised that it's not FUNimation, though.
Funimation is now doing all new simulcasts through Crunchyroll due to their partnership, so if Funi has licensed it, it would still be through Crunchyroll.
Funi only airs dubs on their sites now, no subs. Crunchyroll will air all subs titles Funimation owns.
But yeah, this was a long time coming.
Yeah but this is also going through Daisuki which Funi has no relationship with. This leads me to believe that Toei is licensing directly.
Chris Sabat's been hinting at things, (https://twitter.com/VoiceOfVegeta/status/788882279468634113) and Jason Douglas posted a picture (https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/4txyyt/jason_douglas_funis_beerus_va_uploads_photo_of/) of Beerus from Super before hastily deleting it. So something's happening.
Daisuki has simulcasted shows that are licensed by Funimation in the past (Saiki, Dagashi Kashi, Tales of Zestiria, etc), so I'm not sure if Daisuki streaming Super prevents Funi from having the rights.
I'm not sure who else would have home video rights. They seemed pretty happy using Funi for near two decades and there isn't really anyone else suited for a series of that scale here.
Hey, Super finally threw Vegeta fans a bone. That's how you know that Toriyama didn't write that part.
So I fell behind and have been catching up on the Future Trunks arc.
It's definitely the best thing out of this franchise since the Namek arc. There have been some good things to come out of this franchise since then, but this arc dwarfs them. The animation and directing could be better at times, but the writing, the characterizations, and the action, are some of the best the franchise has had. Goku and Future Trunks Vs. Black and Zamasu was pretty incredible all the way around, and the stakes feel high without having to rely on the power creep problem that later arcs of DB relied on. And yes, it beats the arc which it's a sequel to (the Cell Saga) handily.
I still haven't watched any Super before this arc, but it doesn't really make a difference. This arc alone justifies Super's entire existence. That's more than I can say for something like GT.
I also have to agree that I like it more than the Cell arc. It has its story-telling issues, but at least I never felt like this arc dragged like the Cell arc did after the first third.
You're not missing much by not having seen the previous stuff. The first two arcs are just badly drawn-out recaps of the most recent movies, and the Champa arc was pretty "meh" except for the Goku Vs. Hit fight. That battle and the filler episode which directly follows it in which Goku loses control of his powers (leading to some classic Toriyama-esque humor) are really the only parts from before this arc that I would actually recommend watching from Super.
It's kinda hard for me to say if I like this arc more than Cell at this point, since I only really have problems with the last third of that arc, and even then there are so many good moments that I don't dislike it, certainly not as much as the rest of you guys. But I do agree this arc validates Super's existence moreso than the Universe 6 arc did. My favorite part of the series, at least the part I was most excited watching, is still probably Goku vs. Hit and it's aftermath, but this arc is easily the best story to come out of the franchise since the manga ended, and both the writing and production quality are on a much better and more consistent level now, and it's been balancing nostalgic throwbacks with genuine character development that progresses the characters further very well. Plus, I'd contend that Zamasu is the best villain in the franchise since Freeza, and maybe the most interesting from a characterization standpoint, so that's another plus to it as well. I'm happy that Super has finally hit it's groove, and I just hope they can keep it up after this arc is done with.
Is Super Better Than GT? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-WHQZKs_LA)
Yes.
Haha, like that's a question!
FUNimation has officially announced that their Dragon Ball Super dub is in production. (http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/11/04/funimation-gets-dragon-ball-super-is-working-on-english-dub)
I'm not surprised that Funimation was able to license it, but it's great news nonetheless. The sooner Funi dubs the Goku Black/Future Trunks arc, the better. ;D
I'm still curious what the hell is going on with DBZ Kai's Buu Saga, especially since there is a lot evidence showing that the dub for it has been finished. My only guess is that Toei isn't allowing them to release it on home media yet, and they can't stream it due to various rights reasons. Hopefully, it will show up on Toonami at the beginning of next year or I'm going to be somewhat concerned about its fate.
Took long enough.
I was expecting to get Vegetto in this episode, but it looks like we'll have to wait until next week.
But, come on guys, just admit it: the fight in this episode was the hypest shit to come out of the franchise since Battle of Gods. I was always more of a fan of Dragonball for the comedy more than the action, but even I have to admit that this was legitimately bad-ass stuff. :joy:
I'm so hyped for Vegetto vs. Zamasu next week! :shakeshakeshake:
It looks like Toei was right to waiting on pushing DBS until this arc. Because of it, this is the only experience the majority of the NA audience has had with the series and it has been overwhelmingly positive as a result. I'm not sure what they're going to do when this arc ends. It's going to be very difficult to top this.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 06, 2016, 10:52:57 PMIt looks like Toei was right to waiting on pushing DBS until this arc. Because of it, this is the only experience the majority of the NA audience has had with the series and it has been overwhelmingly positive as a result. I'm not sure what they're going to do when this arc ends. It's going to be very difficult to top this.
Not necessarily. This arc did a good job of capturing the darker and more serious side of Dragonball, but DB itself is a franchise that lends itself well to many different tones. A Red Ribbon Army style arc that combines humor and action more evenly could also be great. Possibly even better. At any rate, Toriyama said that he will be announcing the next arc in December, so we'll just have to wait and see what the future of this franchise holds in store.
Some of the best episodes of Super have been comedy-focused or featured the characters just spending time together. They don't need to top this arc in terms of scale and spectacle for it to be entertaining. Even something smaller scale with less at stake can be just as fun if the heart's in the right place.
Alright, I'll preface this by saying that there was a fair amount of ass-pulley writing in this episode that disappointed me a bit. But still, was I the only one "squee-ing" with nerdy excitement throughout most of this?
Because, holy shit, man. :shakeshakeshake:
And special props to to the writers for closing out Future Trunks' character arc by....
Spoiler
....having him be the one to finish off Zamasu/Black. It's really satisfying and cements him as my second favorite character in Super so far.
Granted, there was some contrived writing here as well, and I'm definitely critical of it, but part of me also just can't help but get drawn into how good the rest of the episode was.
I remember when FUNi skipped the first GT arc and went straight to dubbing the Baby arc. I know that was a controversial move, and not something modern FUNi would be open to doing, but I'm wondering if they should do that for Super and just skip straight to dubbing and releasing the Champa arc first.
If they allowed Toonami to air both the Battle of Gods and Resurrection F movies, they could totally do that. In all honesty, I don't expect them to go that route, but it'd certainly be better for ratings.
Here's MasakoX's thoughts on this week's insanely controversial episode of DBS: https://youtu.be/fdKxj77yh_Y
I'm in complete agreement. The episode, much like the arc as a whole, most definitely had some writing problems. However, I'm rather baffled as to how pissed off so many fans are about the retcon that the Potara Fusion is not permanent for mortals, especially when the Majin Buu arc gave us absolutely no explanation to begin with as to why Vegitto unfused.
But bigger than that is the complaint that Vegitto didn't land the final blow but instead Future Trunks scored the kill....in his own fucking story arc. This whole arc was referred to as The Future Trunks arc for a reason. His whole character arc was about learning to solve his own problems for a change. And on top of that, people complained about Goku and Vegeta always hogging the spotlight in Super. So, the writers actually addressed that complaint in a way that makes sense and was clearly set-up throughout the arc, and now people are even more pissed because....Goku and Vegeta didn't hog the spotlight again?
I swear, the Western Dragonball fandom just puzzles me sometimes.
Asspulls have been a part of Dragon Ball from the very beginning. The series is full of contrivances. I don't see how the potara fusion only lasting a hour feels any more cheap than Vegito inexplicably unfusing inside of Buu for no given reason, except for the fan-created assumption it had something to do with Buu's digestive system (which makes no sense because Gotenks was still fused inside of Buu until the time limit for the fusion ran out). I appreciate them actually giving an explanation for why Vegito would unfuse that makes sense. Does it cheapen the mystique of Vegito as a fusion? Sure. But I don't know why people are so butthurt over it when the fact they unfused for no reason back in the Buu arc already did that.
Future Trunks defeating Zamasu makes the most sense from a thematic and story standpoint. Future Trunks's character arc during this saga has been learning to deal with his own problems himself, but more than that, Zamasu being defeated by a mortal who has not achieved god-like energy like Goku or Vegeta, but has instead been inbued by the power of all living mortals on Earth, their combined hope and strength, serves to prove Zamasu's belief that mortals cannot measure up to the power of Gods false, because when combined, it was the power of mortals, ordinary mortals, that ultimately defeated him. There's actual logic and emotional thematic reasoning as to why Trunks had to be the one to defeat Zamasu in the end. It's way more of a justification than Gohan being the one to defeat Cell or Goku the one to beat Buu, and you rarely see people criticize at least the former of those examples.
Well, to be fair, It's the Genki-Dama that Goku creates from the people on Earth that kills Buu, not Goku alone.
And really, Future Trunks killing Zamasu follows the same logic. He scores the kill, but he couldn't have done it without everyone's help.
Sure, but it's always felt like Toriyama decided to switch gears at some point in the arc to shift the focus from Gohan to Goku, with no real reason to justify doing so other than he decided that was better. But I've always loved that the ending of the Buu arc is basically the people of earth contributing their power to defend themselves for once, which was brilliant, and yes, Zamasu's defeat followed the same logic which is why I was really satisfied by it as well.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxj2HYHUsAAQAiN.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxj2HYIVQAAw3O4.jpg)
GOKU VS ARALE!? :swoon:
I quite like that Future Trunks was the one to finish him off. I also like that he stole Black and Zamasu's idea about infusing his sword with energy and used it to kill him. Not only is it Zamasu's own hubris that did him in, but it mirrors Future Trunks' introduction in the original series by slicing apart the enemy.
It was also great seeing Vegitto again. An explanation as to why they originally un-fuzed in the Buu arc was well-needed too. But if you want an explanation as to why he couldn't finish him off while Future Trunks did, just go with the fact that he softened him up tremendously. His body was breaking down as was his mind, and they needed someone to deliver a solid hit.
All in all, it was a great arc. This is the type of thing we needed from a DB series since GT fumbled the ball. If Funi were to just start with the previous arc and move forward, that would be more than okay with me. They could always go back and do the other stuff later.
Well, that's the official conclusion of the Future Trunks arc. I think it's safe to say at this point that this was a very flawed but overall strong arc of Dragonball, and arguably the best thing to come out of the franchise since the end of the original manga. I do have plenty of legitimate criticisms here, but what I liked far outweighs what didn't work for me.
That said, I'll need to give it some time and an eventual full re-watch before I can really cement my true thoughts on this story-line. I was contemplating doing a write-up about it this weekend, but decided to hold off on that for at least a few weeks since it's still too fresh in my mind for me to properly assess it from a less biased perspective.
In the meanwhile, I am looking forward to the Dr. Slump crossover episode (the first since New Dr. Slump, if I'm not mistaken), as well as the apparent Yamucha-centric episode if the promotional art is any indication. And while I'm not sure if it will be a full arc, I'm definitely anticipating Hit's reappearance into the story.
Only thing I'm wondering is why they didn't just use the Dragon Balls to restores Future Trunks' world and everyone who died.
On the other hand, I think an interesting twist would have been to restore Future Trunks' timeline back to just before the androids arrived. Him having to participate in all those shenanigans again would have been pretty interesting.
I have to say, for as many problems as I've had with Super since the beginning, I've really enjoyed all of its comedy-focused episodes since early on, and this was another legitimately funny one, IMO.
That said, though, might Super be in trouble (http://youtu.be/hTiI3KAakE4) for the next arc?
We'll have to wait and see, but it's not ususally a good sign when a show's head creative director switches out so many times so frequently. It kind of showcases that this series is in fact a nightmare to work on from a production standpoint thanks to Toei's poor scheduling, to the point where you can pretty much tell that very few people in the higher-up positions of the show's production actually want to have that job.
So instead of an alternate Ocean dub, we get an alternate Bang Zoom dub. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0rkCj71WcU)
The Super cast list: (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/11/30-1/funimation-announces-dragon-ball-super-english-dub-cast)
GOKU - Sean Schemmel
VEGETA - Christopher R. Sabat
BEERUS - Jason Douglas
WHIS - Ian Sinclair
KRILLIN - Sonny Strait
GOHAN - Kyle Hebert
BULMA - Monica Rial
PICCOLO - Christopher R. Sabat
TRUNKS - Alexis Tipton
NARRATOR - Doc Morgan
GOTEN - Kara Edwards
CHI-CHI - Cynthia Cranz
A18 - Meredith McCoy
MR. SATAN - Chris Rager
BUU - Josh Martin
KING KAI - Sean Schemmel
SHENRON - Christopher R. Sabat
VIDEL - Kara Edwards
YAMCHA - Christopher R. Sabat
TIEN - John Burgmeier
SHOU - Chris Cason
ROSHI - Mike McFarland
PUAR - Brina Palencia
PILAF - Chuck Huber
OX-KING - Kyle Hebert
OOLONG - Brad Jackson
MARRON - Tia Ballard
KIBITO KAI - Kent Williams
ELDER KAI - Kent Williams
DENDE - Justin Cook
CHIAOTZU - Brina Palencia
MAI - Colleen Clinkenbeard
Not much of a surprise here.
I guess Laura Bailey's sick of having to fly to Texas to play Kid Trunks every year.
Here are two (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCwuMG-ngsI) previews of the dub. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX9Cx88-ZSI)
Yeah, it pretty much sounds how you expect it would. I'm assuming this is going to air either on Toonami or Disney XD (since they have Pokemon and Yokai Watch).
In this year's DB-Cember, TFS is tackling the top 24 Dragonball villains....which in all honesty, even as a hardcore fan myself, is a huge stretch since there are only a handful of villains from the franchise that are truly that memorable. Personally, I think that making a list for the top 24 characters in general would have made much more sense.
Since we are going for that many villains, though, I really hope that some of the Red Ribbon Army commanders receive some much needed love and respect here. That saga has some of the most underrated and entertaining baddies in all of Dragonball, and at the very least both General Blue and Tao Pai Pai deserve to make it somewhere on the list.
You'd think there'd be plenty enough choices out there that Hiredegarn of all things wouldn't make the cut.
I do hope to see some love for some OG DB villains. Too bad they aren't including Super, since I'd be curious to see where they'd have ranked Zamasu/Black.
I just bought the Dragonball 4-movie collection. I always had a soft spot for the original three movies, myself, and while none are great on their own, I personally find them more appealing and true to the spirit of the series than most of the DBZ movies.
On a side note, I've noticed that the DBGT complete series set has been sitting at that Walmart for months. Literally just that one single copy has gone untouched forever. It's also ridiculously cheap at just $25 for a 64-episode anime series. And yet, it still contimues to go unpurchased. That really says it all, doesn't it? :sly:
I want another Dr. Slump anime. I want it now. Make it happen, Toriyama and Toei!
No, but seriously, the fourth-wall breaking, the countless references and in-jokes, Vegeta internally monologuing about how battle manga characters are disadvantaged against gag manga characters....this is the most Toriyama thing that I've ever seen since his prime in the 80's. In fact, if you were to tell me that Toriyama himself wrote this episode, then I would believe you. If not, then kudos to whoever wrote these gags for being the biggest Dr. Slump and Dragonball fan ever.
I read through all of Dr. Slump just last year, and I already want to re-read it again.
Bang Zoom dub makes me uncomfortable. (https://youtu.be/oshoRDqLRJc) I mean, not Final Bout uncomfortable, but it's close.
Man, I can't wait to watch the new DB/Dr. Slump crossover. I'm holding off on it right now because I want to revisit the original crossover from the anime (and maybe the one from the 1997 Dr. Slump series) first, but it really sounds like everything great about Slump and Toriyama's sense of humor rolled into one big love letter of an episode.
Get ready to enjoy a whole month of DBD: http://youtu.be/pL-HXdtQbK4
I'm really glad that he covered how legitimately clever Vegeta is in the first half of this arc. For a series that gets criticized for just being about power fantasy and energy blasts, this does a lot to disprove those notions and show just how good Toriyama can be at actually moving his plot along while avoiding cliche fights.
I also like how he goes into detail about the little art inconsistencies in Toriyama's drawings. Even with my attention to detail as a huge fan, I must admit that I never caught some of these. Like, I knew that the Kanji on Goku's gi changed when he put on a new one at this part, but I never realized the addition to his boots until MF pointed it out in this video.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on May 03, 2016, 05:04:46 PM
The writer of Dragonball: Evolution had offered a formal apology. (http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/news/dragonball-evolution-writer-apologizes-to-fans/)
I didn't know the Blood and Bone director wrote Evolution. Small world.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 21, 2016, 04:18:00 AM
The Trunks arc sounds neat, but I'm still waiting for the eventual dub. No offense to Masako Nozawa since I admire her dedication to the role after so long, but hearing her voice coming out of Black Goku would feel off. Like when she played Bardock.
Funny enough, she was great as Black Goku. Much better than her normal Goku even. I hear that Schemmel's Black Goku is bad to mediocre, ironically.
He has only been able to do some lines for Goku Black in the video game Xenoverse 2, which contains no real dramatic context for him to get a proper feel for the character, and not much in the way of worthwhile material to work with. I believe it's a bit unfair and presumptuous to call his portrayal poor until we actually see it in the dub for Super itself.
Man, this year's DB-cember is pretty disappointing so far. They really should have done a top 24 characters list in general rather than trying to force one out solely for the villains. Quite frankly there just aren't enough to make a proper and meaningful top 24 list. We're already up to the 15th spot and not only are all of the villains present still fodder, but they aren't even decent fodder. Garlic Jr. is a garbage villain and always has been. In this case I really will be pissed if General Blue and Tao Pai Pai are omitted from this list when the likes of Broly and Hirudegarn made it on here.
I suppose that next year will be the top 24 heroes, and that has more potential to be interesting, but I've really been wanting to see a top 24 fights list since they first started these annual celebrations.
Yeah, a top 24 villains list really doesn't work for Dragon Ball. So far, it's felt like they've just arbitrarily ranked a bunch of middling to downright awful villains so that they can fill up space. I know that they didn't want to include Super because it's still ongoing, but they might as well have since Black and Zamasu's qualities as villains aren't even comparable to the trash on the list so far.
And hell, as questionable as it is whether he really qualifies as a villain or not, Hit would be a good inclusion on this list. He's at least more compelling of a character than anyone else on the list so far.
The only ones who I've agreed with so far are Zarbon and Dodoria, since their ranking makes sense and they are at least somewhat memorable.
D....does Toei watch TFS's DBZA? Because those Yamucha jokes....
I loved last week's Dr. Slump episode, and two weeks in a row we've gotten great comedy episodes. It's the one thing that Super does consistently well.
They seemed to realize that filler episodes like the car one from DBZ are where you can get a lot of comedic mileage and that people want to see more of. These are the kinds of filler episodes I can get behind.
They've still the top 10 left, but man, DBcember has been disappointing this year. I guess most of the villains in Dragon Ball really do kinda suck if TFS' list is any indication. I'm hoping the Top 10 at least is full of good picks, but I'm kinda hoping they do something that allows them to speak more positively about the franchise next DBcember. This is the second year in the row where most of the list outside the top 10 is full of meh and them shitting on the entries, which is kinda sad since this is supposed to be a celebration of the franchise and whatnot.
I also strongly disagree with their criticisms of Zamasu in their Super villains overview. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkweS0l9iLo) Just because the Knight Templar character archetype has been "done better" that doesn't make Zamasu any less effective as a villain: the point is that he is shallow, that he has a very black and white view of the world and is so conceited and arrogant that he thinks it's up to him to right wrongs and punish humans and gods alike. He's one-dimensional, but in the same respect Freeza is interesting despite being just a power-hungry tyrant, his personality and just how twisted he is sells him as an antagonist. And something being "done better" elsewhere is something that can be said of a lot of things in Dragon Ball, honestly. Doesn't mean they aren't still good.
In more positive news, the "Universe Survival" arc is set to debut in February. (http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2016/12/14/new-dragon-ball-super-storyline-revealed-as-universe-survival-arc/) Here's the teaser image:
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kanzenshuu.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F12%2Funiverse_survival_arc_vjump_twitter-1024x768.jpg&hash=0434f8f9d8ff317502a8161c4b93509d20687c59)
Super has been mostly a Goku and Vegeta show, so I'm really excited to see that Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Roshi, Gohan, Buu, Krillin, 18 AND 17 (!) are going to have a role in this upcoming arc, especially if it's going to be the multiverse tournament. I'm really hoping they get to meaningfully contribute and get to do stuff. Especially Buu and Piccolo, who really got the shaft in the Universe 6 tournament, not to mention Gohan who's been getting the shaft all of Super, and Tenshinhan who's been getting the shaft since the original Dragon Ball. And 17 returning was really unexpected and is pretty awesome. I'm honestly more excited to see him interact with Krillin and 18 again than actually seeing him fight, though if they're bothering to bring him back I'm hoping he'll get to win at least one.
That's a good combination of characters. I'm hoping we see more from all of them and that they get chances to shine.
But I am surprised Master Roshi is going over Yamcha or Chiaotzu. I wonder what tricks he might have up his sleeve?
They chose Roshi over Yamcha and Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' too, and he really kicked some ass against Freeza's soldiers, so the old man's definitely still got it. I'm hoping he gets to show off in the new arc like he was able to do in that film.
Quote from: LumRanmaYasha on December 15, 2016, 09:28:36 AM
They've still the top 10 left, but man, DBcember has been disappointing this year. I guess most of the villains in Dragon Ball really do kinda suck if TFS' list is any indication. I'm hoping the Top 10 at least is full of good picks, but I'm kinda hoping they do something that allows them to speak more positively about the franchise next DBcember. This is the second year in the row where most of the list outside the top 10 is full of meh and them shitting on the entries, which is kinda sad since this is supposed to be a celebration of the franchise and whatnot.
I also strongly disagree with their criticisms of Zamasu in their Super villains overview. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkweS0l9iLo) Just because the Knight Templar character archetype has been "done better" that doesn't make Zamasu any less effective as a villain: the point is that he is shallow, that he has a very black and white view of the world and is so conceited and arrogant that he thinks it's up to him to right wrongs and punish humans and gods alike. He's one-dimensional, but in the same respect Freeza is interesting despite being just a power-hungry tyrant, his personality and just how twisted he is sells him as an antagonist. And something being "done better" elsewhere is something that can be said of a lot of things in Dragon Ball, honestly. Doesn't mean they aren't still good.
Thank you. This is exactly how I feel about Zamasu. Zamasu is not that deep, he only seems like he is supposed to be if you aren't paying attention but his actions still make him interesting. You can't criticise him for not being Sensui in a series where Namek Vegeta is probably the most multi-dimensional villain. Sure, he had failed potential for not giving any real reasons or backstory as to why he hates humans but that should not be held against him at all. I personally consider Zamasu to be like an above average JRPG villain, above average since he does go into his motives a bit more than the average RPG villain and his personality is better than a lot of them but still one-dimensional.
I think I heard the tournament is next then Universe Survival but don't quote me - I just skimmed through tweets. I do hope that's the case because I think they said the tournament would be 7-8 episodes, like I want it to be.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 30, 2016, 03:31:06 PM
The Super cast list: (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/11/30-1/funimation-announces-dragon-ball-super-english-dub-cast)
GOKU - Sean Schemmel
VEGETA - Christopher R. Sabat
BEERUS - Jason Douglas
WHIS - Ian Sinclair
KRILLIN - Sonny Strait
GOHAN - Kyle Hebert
BULMA - Monica Rial
PICCOLO - Christopher R. Sabat
TRUNKS - Alexis Tipton
NARRATOR - Doc Morgan
GOTEN - Kara Edwards
CHI-CHI - Cynthia Cranz
A18 - Meredith McCoy
MR. SATAN - Chris Rager
BUU - Josh Martin
KING KAI - Sean Schemmel
SHENRON - Christopher R. Sabat
VIDEL - Kara Edwards
YAMCHA - Christopher R. Sabat
TIEN - John Burgmeier
SHOU - Chris Cason
ROSHI - Mike McFarland
PUAR - Brina Palencia
PILAF - Chuck Huber
OX-KING - Kyle Hebert
OOLONG - Brad Jackson
MARRON - Tia Ballard
KIBITO KAI - Kent Williams
ELDER KAI - Kent Williams
DENDE - Justin Cook
CHIAOTZU - Brina Palencia
MAI - Colleen Clinkenbeard
Not much of a surprise here.
Ian Sinclair's Whis? I didn't know Sabat was Shenron and Yamcha and I forgot he was Piccolo.
So, this being he third time that Goku has died and all, does he get that free sunday?
I have to say, I really like how unique Hit's powers and abilities are for a Dragon Ball character.
And....that's the list.
Really, even when they got to the good villains, there were no surprises here. I completely agree with Freeza being the best (or worst?) of them, but the top 7 in general were a large case of "Shit Sherlock, first name: No" IMO.
Really disappointing DB-Cember, IMO. But, I will say that even though it was clearly a joke, I would totally watch a list of the top 24 reasons why Monster Carrot is the best DB villain. :D
I'm supposing that next year will probably be the top 24 heroes or general characters from the franchise, and while that could certainly work better than the villains list this year, I do really want to see their take on the top 24 fights from the franchise.
Monster Carrot was robbed I tells ya! Robbed! ROBBED!
But nah, figured Freeza would be the safest bet for #1 mostly because he has committed mass genocide and slavery across the known & unknown galaxies.
I was pleasantly surprised that King Piccolo ranked in the top 3 since I wasn't expecting them to rank him higher than Cell and Beerus. But yeah, we all knew Freeza was going to be #1 and with good reason. Though I feel that Master Shen and Tullece should've been on the list instead of the likes of Hiredegarn and Janemba. Either way, I was satisfied with the top 12, but I'm hoping next year's list will be more interesting and allow them to spend less time complaining and more time talking about what they love about DB.
The latest episode of Naruto was pretty good!
No seriously, I liked the episode even though it was glorified filler. But that's 5 great [for filler] Dragonball Super episodes so far. If they give us more of this and less of Vegeta sucking on a pacifier then I am game. Especially if they are really gearing up for a bump in animation quality for Universe Survival.
Also, Hit continues to be more likable even tohugh I think hey softened him up a little bit too much this early. And man, the fans figured out almost everything in this episode. From the energy blast reviving Goku to Whis getting Vados to hire Hit to train Goku. I haven't seen anyone say that Goku was the real client though. Nice little twist.
As for next week, Saiyaman bores the crap out of me but more Gohan is more Gohan and I can't pretend like I am not addicted to this show so I'll watch.
Dragon Ball Super's Toonami premiere is tonight!!!!
Yup. I'm pretty pumped up for it. I decided to watch it at 11:30 for Toonami and not the 8 pm one on Adult Swim.
Man, I've even a little excited for seeing the start of the DBZ Kai Buu tonight as well. Guess I'm in a DBZ mood.
Man, was it ever soooo great to hear Funi's DB again. The first episode was hilarious. Haven't bothered watching the Japanese version so this was actually my first time watching it!
Really cool to be enjoying Dragon Ball on Toonami once again. Its going to be insane when Samurai Jack is in the same lineup with it!
Yes, Samurai Jack and DBZ were my favorites!!
Quote from: Peanutbutter on January 08, 2017, 09:42:25 PM
Really cool to be enjoying Dragon Ball on Toonami once again. Its going to be insane when Samurai Jack is in the same lineup with it!
That reminds me that I need to remember to watch Samurai Jack next week or at least record it. I'm happy AS is airing it again.
Damn, next week?!!!
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 09, 2017, 12:04:01 AM
Damn, next week?!!!
Yeah, Samurai Jack is back on the schedule next Saturday. At 8:30 after Dragon Ball Super starting with episode 1.
New Jack?
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 09, 2017, 12:19:35 AM
New Jack?
Oh no. They're airing reruns of the first series at 8:30. Looks like AS is bringing back reruns for a few things. Sundays are changing a bit too.
My bad, for not saying it was the reruns in my first post.
The English cast for Toonami Asia's Super dub has been announced. (http://toonamifaithful.com/english-dub-cast-for-toonami-asias-version-of-dragon-ball-super)
Frieza hasn't been cast yet, but Vegeta's VA might have a clue... (https://twitter.com/KaijiTang/status/819383377950191616)
Hey, they got one of the Final Bout actors back...as the wrong fucking character. Not sure how I feel about Piccolo being voiced by Noctis from Final Fantasy XV when there are literally a half-dozen California based VA's that would've been more fitting. Jury's still out on the rest, about the only one that sounds like perfect casting is Doug Erholtz as Whis
So we've all been clamoring to see a female Super Saiyan. I just wasn't expecting her to be Broly.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2vMblfWgAADFw3.jpg)
Is it just me or are female versions of muscular male characters starting to become a trend in nerd culture in general? We have female Thor, female Wolverine, and now Broly with boobs (and hopefully an actual character with personality to go along with it).
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 22, 2017, 01:15:08 PMIs it just me or are female versions of muscular male characters starting to become a trend in nerd culture in general? We have female Thor, female Wolverine, and now Broly with boobs (and hopefully an actual character with personality to go along with it).
Also female Pidge. ;)
Also, can you guess who's missing from this roster? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXNGlE_qur0)
The dub for Super is great so far; this is the cast at their absolute best. I can't say enough good about Jason Douglas as Beerus.
Kai's interpretation of the Buu saga I am.....less as impressed with. And this was recorded like, 2-3 years ago correct? I dunno, the script feels somewhat childish thus far, almost like they've (in select instances) reverted back to their old ways with unneccesary rewrites. Maybe I'm just overthinking this, idk. I do dig the new score though.
Ok, Super Goku is dumber than Z Goku. I can no longer argue against this.
It's one of my major points of contention with the writing for this show, and I say that as someone who actually rather enjoys it. It's almost as if the writers are basing Goku's character off of parodies of his character like in DBZA. Yes, Goku can be narrow-minded and incredibly dense at times. However in Toriyama's original manga and the anime up through DBZ, Goku was never deliberately written to be a stupid character. There's a big difference between being naïve and being an idiot.
Quoteas if the writers are basing Goku's character off of parodies of his character like in DBZA.
Well, several Ghost Nappas did show up a week ago.
Also,
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqJ2xQuc.jpg&hash=9d9c7e0abeb6e52ba8d36dc29dd5e321d13a22e5)
Ok, I might be open to believe Goku is going evil theories now. Not really, maybe, idk.
For those of you wanting to get into DBS without putting up with the garbage, this helpful video reviews every single episode so far in 10 words or less and lists both the five best and worst from the series up to this point in time: http://youtu.be/PiARuIk6Mzw
So, is it just me or is this OP pure hype? http://youtu.be/XhKa0_z1Hcs
So HMVs are closing across Canada which means I found season 2 and 3 of Dragon Ball on DVD for more than half off.
I almost forgot how much I enjoyed this show. There's really nothing like it.
Just have to make sure to get around to season 1, 4, and 5, down the line to finish it off.
So, TeamFourStar (the crew behind DBZ Abridged) was on the official DBZ Kai dub this week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzdsEsbkbic
Unfortunately, due to Toei and rights issues, the broadcast version that Toonami aired used the original DBZ cast version instead. This special TFS clip can be found on demand. Comcast Xfinity supposedly has it. I'm not sure about others.
All of those in-jokes killed me. Stuff like this is the kind of loose and liberal dub adaptation choices I can get behind.
I have avoided DBS leaks but it sounds like Universe Survival will be ending soon and I think that's awesome. I was worried about how they would do so many one on one battles and looks like they found an interesting solution. I think they'll take a few episodes to gather and train everyone and then the tournament itself will be a few episodes. Again, all just my theory based on just watching the show and leaks have probably debunked it.
Also, I hope they lose. I wonder if Toei has the balls to do that.
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 11, 2017, 02:48:47 PMAlso, I hope they lose. I wonder if Toei has the balls to do that.
They've been doing that a lot with
Super. Goku can't match up to Beerus, no matter how hard he tries, and the Future Trunks arc has a pretty dark ending for
Dragon Ball standards.
They are wasting no time starting this tournament, it seems.
I had already posted about this on the video games board, but there's a DBZ fan-game that's made using the Mugen engine and in the style of classic Capcom and SNK arcade-style 2D sprite-based fighters, which is something that I've always wanted to see. The attention to detail and numerous references to the series lore also adds a lot of charm to the overall look and design of this game. I really want to give it a try sometime, when I can get myself a decent new computer since my old one is unusable at this point.
Here's a video of Max trying it out: https://youtu.be/xC5FcIh4-Y4
Now, just imagine if we could get a Shonen Jump Vs. Capcom game in this style.
I find sprites get across the anime look a lot better when it comes to fighters like this. But yeah, it looks great.
Guess who's coming back...again. (https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/861397813036433408)
I actually think it might be fun to have him on the team and all, but why did Buu have to get the shaft AGAIN? Toriyama must really hate him for some reason. :imnothappy:
I know Goku's an idiot and all, but this is taking things to a whole new level entirely. :whuh:
OK, I'm convinced that someone at Toei watches DBZA. They literally just tried to make Popo look menacing for a frame in this episode.
I love how MasakoX pointed it out and said: "Careful Toei, TFS might hit you with a copyright strike." :sly:
Just picked up DBZ Kai: The Final Chapters Part Two on Blu-ray. I'm not going to lie, for as much flak as its gets, I much prefer Kai's version of the Majin Buu arc to the original DBZ. The pacing still feels dragged out and I would always pick the manga version first, but this version of the anime feels a lot more tolerable than the original for this particular arc. That said, if it weren't for FUNimation's monumentally improved dub I probably wouldn't have bothered with these sets, but it's just so good to see DBZ with genuinely good English voice-acting.
Yeah, Buu Kai is pretty watchable. I enjoy it on Toonami every week. But it seriously could've cut it down a lot more. There's a lot of episodes that could've just been merged into one (and were in the japanese tv broadcast).
Yeah, not sure why they made it longer for the Western release of the series. I'm thinking that maybe FUNimation might have wanted a bit more in order to more evenly divide up the episode count for the DVD/BD releases with a bit more content to offer, but I really have nothing to base that off of.
Honestly, though, despite my issues with the anime in general, I really regret not picking up the Dragon Boxes when they were made available here for a limited period of time. They still seem to be by far the best home video release of the series to date, and they are really hard to find now and typically go for outrageous prices online.
The best video about battle powers and how annoyingly over-emphasized they are in the fan-base: https://youtu.be/DyOMlRyg9yc
I also agree with him that for as many issues as Super has, deciding to largely ignore the power spectrum established from the Z-era of Dragon Ball in order to make supporting characters relevant again is one of the better writing decisions that has been made for the show.
Chris Ayres, Frieza's VA, has advanced COPD and emphysema. (https://www.facebook.com/christopher.ayres.3/posts/10158952499650370)
I heard about this earlier this morning. I feel terrible for him, and I sincerely hope that he and his family can pull through this.
Quote from: Rynnec on May 07, 2017, 10:19:46 PM
I know Goku's an idiot and all, but this is taking things to a whole new level entirely. :whuh:
What did he do?
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 21, 2017, 04:18:01 PM
Chris Ayres, Frieza's VA, has advanced COPD and emphysema. (https://www.facebook.com/christopher.ayres.3/posts/10158952499650370)
I hope he makes it through this.
It seems he's keeping his spirits up and remaining optimistic, which is good. He and his family are going through a scary thing, but hopefully they'll pull through it and the surgery will go smoothly.
Oof..things are getting dark in Super.
It really did.
I'd assume these universes will be restored once the whole thing is over though. That would just be a real big downer if they weren't.
True but at the same time, I'd hate to see this tournament have no stakes. I wonder if it'll be interrupted with some universes permanently erased.
I'm going to throw in and say they'll all be restored in some way. It's a very DB thing to do.
I wouldn't be surprised
Honestly, the no killing rule is pretty stupid for this tournament considering that the losing participants are going to die anyways along with their Universe upon being eliminated.
It just kind of limits the possibilities and tension that you could have with this set up.
Uh, not really. Even if some members do get knocked out, their team could still win and they'll live on. Obviously no team will keep all of their members on the sun dial. Also, the no flying and killing rules were obviously made to try and even up the playing field for characters like Tien, Roshi and Krillin. And Zenoes playfully erasing everyone in an universe from existence, Mojito giving an evil smile after his own/said universe got completely wiped out and the mean/evil looks Goku and Grand Priest exchanged each other respectively didn't exactly relieve the tension...
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 09, 2017, 01:21:37 PM
Uh, not really. Even if some members do get knocked out, their team could still win and they'll live on. Obviously no team will keep all of their members on the sun dial. Also, the no flying and killing rules were obviously made to try and even up the playing field for characters like Tien, Roshi and Krillin. And Zenoes playfully erasing everyone in an universe from existence, Mojito giving an evil smile after his own/said universe got completely wiped out and the mean/evil looks Goku and Grand Priest exchanged each other respectively didn't exactly relieve the tension...
Mistare Fusion had a pretty good response to defenses like this (albeit this was in regard to DBM, but it still applies here). The thing is, everything thay you just said are merely reasons to justify why the no killing rule makes sense in terms of logic, not how it supports the actual strength of the narrative. My argument is that it is a boring device which limits the tension of the battle to only ring outs, which might be fine if this arc had a more comedic tone like the early martial arts tournaments from DB, but clearly that's not what they're going for over here.
For a point of context and comparison, the best fights in Dragon Ball were the group battles with Nappa and Vegeta, and both worked because the group dynamic actually mattered. Characters being able to drop dead on a moments notice was tense not simply because losing a character was like losing a valuable component to the team, but also because it was far less predictable how they would go out as opposed to being restricted to just one way of being eliminated.
As for evening out the playing field, that logic goes against your argument because going up against even odds is automatically less tense than going up against a much greater threat. I actually don't have a problem with things being more even though. I even said as much in an earlier post. I have a problem with how the rest of the tournament is structured. The no killing rule is one thing, but it's far from my main issue. Essentially we are just watching characters that we like fight a bunch of characters that we don't care about until they finally get to who we want to see them fight like Hit or Jiren.
QuoteAnd Zenoes playfully erasing everyone in an universe from existence, Mojito giving an evil smile after his own/said universe got completely wiped out and the mean/evil looks Goku and Grand Priest exchanged each other respectively didn't exactly relieve the tension...
These are merely descriptions of how other characters act or react to events that play out or to each other. That's only displaying how they feel. The tension that I'm talking about is the dramatic kind. The kind that applies to the audience. As an audience member I don't so easily feel nervous or excited or happy or sad or anxious simply because another character does something or the writing tells me that's how I'm supposed to feel. I feel the emotions that I should feel as a result of good story-telling and proper build-up. This current arc of Super lacks that so far, IMO.
It is pointless to have the no-killing rule if everyone from the losing universes die anyway. If they didn't have it at the very least we might be worried that even if they win, someone from the U7 team might die. I mean, any death would still be weightless since they can always use the Namekian Dragon Balls to anyone back to life no matter how times they've died...eh, thinking about it, you just can't have any real stakes going on in this scenario besides the total annihilation of the universe which we already know won't happen because we know everyone is fine in the ending of DBZ. I guess we should just shouldn't take the show so seriously and enjoy it as the meaningless pandering fanservicey bullshit it is. :>
The no-killing rule is a way to make the fighters have to fight a different way than simply going Vegeta-on-Namek on everyone. The losers die either way, but the fight has to be fought this way for entertainment purposes.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 16, 2017, 05:27:58 PM
The no-killing rule is a way to make the fighters have to fight a different way than simply going Vegeta-on-Namek on everyone. The losers die either way, but the fight has to be fought this way for entertainment purposes.
Vegeta-on-Na..hhaahaha yeah. Exactly. It's supposed to also mix in some fun in with how dark the show is getting now. Throwing everyone in a legit war campaign would be a weird 180 with how silly Dragon Ball Super can be.
Wisecrack covered the philosophy of the original series. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cVToC4v8TI)
Seems like Goku will begin fighting Jiren in a 1-hour special on October 8th. (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2017/08/27/big-battles-slated-for-one-piece-and-dragon-ball-super-specials)
I was actually kind of hoping that we could get a special that focused on an entirely different part of the lore from the main story, like the Bardock and Trunks specials. Like, maybe we could've gotten an adaptation of the Jaco manga or something. Instead it's more like getting two normal episodes in one week, which is kind of rendered pointless when you consider that Super will be off the prior week when One Piece has its own special.
That said, the promotional poster art for these specials looks ridiculously good. Like, who the hell was it that put so much effort into making a poster that gorgeously drawn for some otherwise pretty standard TV specials? I'd seriously hang a textless version of that on my wall if I had one.
I was hoping for something of that sort too, or another crossover special. But One Piece's special is also just two episodes of the series, focusing on Luffy vs. Sanji. It seems like the idea behind this promotional stunt is just to hype up two big battles in both series that are happening around the same time.
And yeah, that promotional poster is beautiful. As a huge fan of covering every square inch of my basement walls with posters, I'd love to have a giant-sized print of that.
Quote from: LumRanmaYasha on August 28, 2017, 04:48:11 PM
Seems like Goku will begin fighting Jiren in a 1-hour special on October 8th. (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2017/08/27/big-battles-slated-for-one-piece-and-dragon-ball-super-specials)
Whoa, holy shit...
Plague's mad that Toei sidelines Tien almost as bad as Marvel sidelines the X-Men. (https://youtu.be/42HNvl0e26I)
Hey, at least he took someone down with him. Krillin got it even worse....
Krillin took out two people..
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 05, 2017, 04:58:11 PMKrillin took out two people..
Yeah, but he went out like a total bitch. Even his own wife (who had to assist him with those two in the first place) lost respect for him....
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 05, 2017, 04:58:11 PM
Krillin took out two people..
More than that even.
I know its fun to make jokes about him, but he really does deserve more respect than he gets. He's the strongest human character canonically and yet he's always treated as two steps away from Yamcha.
I do respect Krillin as a character....in Dragonball/Z. Simply having DBS's version of him eliminate some canon fodder that literally ANYONE from Universe 7 could have taken out and then be the first person from the team to get eliminated isn't exactly praise-worthy, especially when he required 18's help to do it.
For a point of comparison, he was much more useful and a better written character in the Namek arc, and he could barely even put up a fight against mist opponents there. However, what made him more interesting and less of a chum is how he took over the role as leader of the group and it was primarily his strategies that kept himself, Gohan, Bulma, and Dende alive until stronger characters Goku and Piccolo arrived.
The reason that I say that Tien has it at least a little bit better is that he helped to take down a duo that was causing half of the team trouble. While he didn't do it alone, either, it at least says something that people like Piccolo, Gohan, and even Goku and Vegeta needed his help in a strategy to take out the sniping team.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on September 05, 2017, 09:59:56 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 05, 2017, 04:58:11 PM
Krillin took out two people..
More than that even.
I know its fun to make jokes about him, but he really does deserve more respect than he gets. He's the strongest human character canonically and yet he's always treated as two steps away from Yamcha.
Pretty much. He was knocked out by someone he'll never beat and in a sneak attack at that. No shame in that and I have been loving all the attention and development Krillin has been getting. He honestly got more episodes than even Vegeta ever since Goku Black ended.
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 05, 2017, 11:03:50 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on September 05, 2017, 09:59:56 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 05, 2017, 04:58:11 PM
Krillin took out two people..
More than that even.
I know its fun to make jokes about him, but he really does deserve more respect than he gets. He's the strongest human character canonically and yet he's always treated as two steps away from Yamcha.
Pretty much. He was knocked out by someone he'll never beat and in a sneak attack at that. No shame in that and I have been loving all the attention and development Krillin has been getting. He honestly got more episodes than even Vegeta ever since Goku Black ended.
That was the low point of the arc for me.
One of the major points of Krilliin in Super is supposed to be him crawling out of his rut of giving up on ever catching up to Goku. He even got some good moments and technically beat Gohan using the tournament rules. Remember, this is supposed to lead up to the end of Z where he becomes the greatest human fighter.
So in this arc after all that buildup he is beaten by a cheap shot simply so we can get more Krillin jokes. I remember seeing articles entitled "The first person eliminated is exactly who you think it is" when it happened. Every character dumped on him because he got cocky which he never even does at any point in serious battles and lost.
Seeing them drop the ball on him like that was lame.
Deviantart strikes again
Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ24oD8WsAAVJH-.jpg)
What? Is she going to be an android made after the likeness of Dr. Gero's daughter or something?
"I am a new android made by Dr. Gero"
"But, Gero's dead"
"....I am a new android made by Shut up!"
"Ooh, can I meet this "Shut up!"?"
"KAKAROT!"
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 16, 2017, 01:23:10 PM
What? Is she going to be an android made after the likeness of Dr. Gero's daughter or something?
I'm scared to find out. At this point I think Toriyama is just trolling. Yes, he actually created her...or he just mostly sucks at female characters.
Quote from: Painted Outlaw on September 16, 2017, 02:35:24 PM
"I am a new android made by Dr. Gero"
"But, Gero's dead"
"....I am a new android made by Shut up!"
"Ooh, can I meet this "Shut up!"?"
"KAKAROT!"
Vegeta [to Trunks]: Is that TEN androids I see?!
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 16, 2017, 11:19:50 AM
Deviantart strikes again Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ24oD8WsAAVJH-.jpg)
Time to start fapping.
Fetish fuel, ho!
So, with this video Mistare Fusion finally caps off the Freeza arc: https://youtu.be/GG5EYtGYHbM
As I suspected, he gave it a 5/10 in the ranking, stating that the first half contains some of Dragon Ball's strongest material and that the second half has some of its worst writing. While I do personally enjoy the arc as a whole, I do agree with a lot of his points and criticisms of it. What I appreciate though is that they are legitimate criticisms. Not useless and mis-interpreted fodder about how it's all power-ups and power-levels. Mistare Fusion actually legitimately analyzes and critiques the story structure and it's numerous strengths and weaknesses.
On another note, though, this proves that I was right about the Saiyan arc being superior and more deserving to be placed in our top 30 story arcs list whereas Lum was wrong about claiming Namek to be the better story arc. Of course I can't resist an opportunity to rub that in his face. :sly:
I admit, while I still love the Namek arc, in hindsight I would agree the Saiyan arc is a stronger story containing the most intense and satisfying fight in the series. There are a few things I'd change if we were to re-do the story arcs list, and switching those two would be one of them.
I was expecting MF to give Namek a 5/10 based on his praise of the first half and frustration with the second, and he made many good points which while they don't break the arc for me are definitely flaws. I'm guessing that he'll end up giving the Cell arc the 3/10 and Buu the 1/10, but I'm more interested in how he breaks down each of their strengths and weaknesses, since as much as I love the Buu arc both it and the Cell arc are by far the most unfocused and inconsistently plotted arcs.
The Saiyan arc is my current favorite. I haven't finished the others in years...hell, I have never watched the others in completion and in order. Either way, Saiyan seems to be the most well put together arc in Z and Vegeta is my favorite team fight in the franchise.
The Saiyan arc was also the only one left completed for a long time in North America. The original run stopped at the Ginyu Force's arrival and it took forever to see how Namek ended.
That probably helps account for how popular the first half of DBZ is.
Oh yeah. I waited fffoooorrrreeeevvvveeeerrrrrrr for Goku to return. I honestly meant I've only seen it in order in Kai many years later though. I am good at missing episodes of long running shows.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 16, 2017, 01:23:10 PM
What? Is she going to be an android made after the likeness of Dr. Gero's daughter or something?
Based on the wedding ring she's wearing I'm guessing that she's Dr. Gero's wife/16's mom.
lol at fans saying Hit jobbed to Jiren. Did we watch the some episodes last week? I damn near expected this fight to look like Broly vs. kid Gohan with Hit playing as Gohan.
The domain DragonBall2018.com has been registered.
Current speculation is that Super might be getting its own movies.
Has it been confirmed that Toei registered it?
Frieza's voice actor has been hospitalized. (https://www.youcaring.com/christopherayres-1010986)
Bulma's Japanese VA has passed. (http://www.ytv.co.jp/press/society/TI20261708.html)
Rest in power, Hiromi Tsuru.
Damnit, Toriyama (https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/status/936097133731627008/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-22328969451702863181.ampproject.net%2F1510956201635%2Fframe.html)....:srs:
So, ummm....yeah, Dragon Ball has midi-chlorians now.
I'm convinced that Akira Toriyama is trying to retroactively ruin his own manga as some form of warped revenge against Shueisha for over-working him for nearly two decades. That's the only way that I could possibly stomach any of this shit.
Now watch Raditz be retconned into a girl so Toriyama can say she's Goku's long-lost sister who Bardock's wife gave birth to before she died.
:whuh:
Jesus, they got Brian Drummond back. (https://twitter.com/BrianDrummondVO/status/942246533537316864)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on December 17, 2017, 02:46:25 AMJesus, they got Brian Drummond back. (https://twitter.com/BrianDrummondVO/status/942246533537316864)
He still sounds so good after 20 years. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3CtIC4ugSw) I can play this freaking promo all day.
THANK YOU, FUNI!
Alright, major props to the genius who came up with that little idea.
Wow, Canadian Vegeta is back, awesome!!! All these years, and Drummond still has it. I really wish he'd get cast in a good American superhero cartoon as the main villain.
....Too bad I'm way behind on Super. Y'all know my family situation, and I've been busy with holiday related stuff. But I'm almost caught up to all my live actions shows. DBS is first on my cartoon list after I'm done with Designated Survivor.
The fine folks at ImmaVegeta made a Dragon Ball Kart 64 mod. (https://youtu.be/R58ZL2RE9eY)
It looks like Dragon Ball Super will be going on hiatus starting in April. (https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/954086203044675584) The new Ge Ge Ge no Kitaro show will be taking over its timeslot.
This also confirms previous statements by Super's staff that the Tournament of Power will indeed end in March. However, it's a safe bet to assume that Super will continue or a new Dragon Ball series will be created in the future, probably after production on the new movie wraps up. Going on hiatus will definitely help the production of the series overall - Super has had a notoriously tight schedule from the beginning that has led to episodes rushed out the door without clean-up and corrections on animation, so this can help the show finally get into the groove of a healthy schedule which will lead to a better managed production and a better quality show.
Either way, movie adaptions aside, it was sure a much better experience than GT and I'm glad it was made at all.
Quote from: LumRanmaYasha on January 18, 2018, 02:42:32 PM
It looks like Dragon Ball Super will be going on hiatus starting in April. (https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/954086203044675584) The new Ge Ge Ge no Kitaro show will be taking over its timeslot.
This also confirms previous statements by Super's staff that the Tournament of Power will indeed end in March. However, it's a safe bet to assume that Super will continue or a new Dragon Ball series will be created in the future, probably after production on the new movie wraps up. Going on hiatus will definitely help the production of the series overall - Super has had a notoriously tight schedule from the beginning that has led to episodes rushed out the door without clean-up and corrections on animation, so this can help the show finally get into the groove of a healthy schedule which will lead to a better managed production and a better quality show.
"Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo-" *remember Spring anime season will be lit. Oh thank God, I wouldn't have lived if not for that.
But yeah, as much as I've become a part of the "ANIMENOWDONTWAIT" problem, a break will only help. They'll obvious not stop the series so I can't wait to see what they'll return with. They also need to keep Yuya Takahashi full time.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on January 18, 2018, 03:53:09 PM
Either way, movie adaptions aside, it was sure a much better experience than GT and I'm glad it was made at all.
Same. There has to be like 5 GT>>>Super guys left, but then I'm underestimating the internet.
With Super going on a Hiatus, I want them to continue off where the original series left off, expect for animate the part where Goku gave Uub the Kinto'un/Flying Nimbus. That was like one of my favorite additions Toriyama did for the Kanzeban release all those years back.
It's not a hiatus. Super is ending. (https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/954155784757166081)
So Kanzenshuu recently did a podcast on their thoughts and speculation about Super ending so suddenly.
You can listen to the full podcast on their YouTube channel, but essentially they feel that the main cause for the ending was due to the animation staff being ridiculously overworked because of Toei's poor planning and scheduling for this show since the beginning. It's no secret that Super is notorious for being hell to work on behind the scenes, and with the movie coming out later this year, there was just no way possible to divide up the team and still keep any semblance of quality going across the year. Also, in general, a lot of Super's story and pacing problems can also be blamed on the rushed production of the show.
While they do speculate that Toei is going to bring Dragonball back to TV in one way or another (Super has just done far too well financially for them to outright ignore the DB IP), they aren't expecting anything to come of it for at least a full year after Super ends. Additionally, while this would give Toei the perfect opportunity to learn from and amend their mistakes, they are doubtful that they will, because....well, because it's fucking Toei. Why else?
They won't learn. This has been their way of doing things for decades.
That said, it'll come back. I would be very surprised if it didn't.
So has anybody here read that Dragonball AF manga Toyotaro drew before he was hired to do official Dragonball stuff? Because he mined a couple of ideas for Super from that old fanfic of his, like the idea of an evil version of Goku partnering up with a corrupt Supreme Kai. Maybe it can give some clues for what the next installment will do.
If nothing else, at least this new movie should look pretty dope. They're giving it more pre-production time than they did
Battle of Gods and
Resurrection 'F' so I'm expecting an upgrade in quality.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 29, 2018, 05:40:47 PM
So has anybody here read that Dragonball AF manga Toyotaro drew before he was hired to do official Dragonball stuff? Because he mined a couple of ideas for Super from that old fanfic of his, like the idea of an evil version of Goku partnering up with a corrupt Supreme Kai. Maybe it can give some clues for what the next installment will do.
Interesting. Is a translation of that circulating around somewhere? Curious to check it out.
The first 4 volumes are here. (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150684646963846.423048.10911263845&type=3)
Wow, you're not kidding about him reusing ideas for Super. Majin Pooh was definitely the inspiration for Botamo. At any rate, I hope he doesn't try and make his Xicor OC canon in any way. That was super cringey. Also Toyotaro really hates Goten, doesn't he? It's no wonder he's gotten the shaft in Super.
One of his ideas I could most see being used in the show is Freeza's mother being a Kai or at least some kind of god. Especially if he's brought back to life after the Tournament of Power. The Ryu'shin Realm thing could be something they could do too, minus the presence of the Shadow Dragons. I also like the idea of Android 8 partnering up with 17 as a fellow wildlife conservationist. That'd make for a cute filler episode.
I've been wanting to write an article on Super and the general state of DB as a franchise right now, in terms of why it has had such a huge resurgence in popularity in recent years, the missteps that Toei has made with Super's production, and how these issues could possibly be fixed in the future. At the very least, though, I'll wait until the show has finished its run in March before I post up a piece about it.
I know this sounds too much of a stretch, but the Universal Survival Saga feels like a meta-narrative arguing for Dragonball's place in Toei's catalogue, where they have to fight against their other brands like PreCure (i.e. Ribrianne) and Super Sentai (the Pride Troopers), while the child-like yet sociopathic Toei overlords (Zeno) decide which of these franchises is deemed appealing enough to survive. Helps that Super is in the same time slot as some of Toei's other shows, meaning the company regularly duels with itself in the ratings.
Bulma has been recast. (http://comicbook.com/anime/2018/02/15/dragon-ball-super-new-bulma-voice-aya-hisakawa)
This was the last episode Hiromi Tsuru recorded, right?
Super Eyepatch Wolf just released a pretty neat video about the impact and influence of Dragon Ball Z: https://youtu.be/tuvSwb5KM6Q
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on February 04, 2018, 12:49:43 AM
I know this sounds too much of a stretch, but the Universal Survival Saga feels like a meta-narrative arguing for Dragonball's place in Toei's catalogue, where they have to fight against their other brands like PreCure (i.e. Ribrianne) and Super Sentai (the Pride Troopers), while the child-like yet sociopathic Toei overlords (Zeno) decide which of these franchises is deemed appealing enough to survive. Helps that Super is in the same time slot as some of Toei's other shows, meaning the company regularly duels with itself in the ratings.
That's a pretty interesting interpretation. I wouldn't be surprised if that was what inspired who the competitors were in the different universes, especially since Zeno is clearly supposed to be a stand-in for the fans.
Quote from: Daikun on February 17, 2018, 02:58:17 PM
Bulma has been recast. (http://comicbook.com/anime/2018/02/15/dragon-ball-super-new-bulma-voice-aya-hisakawa)
Sailor Mercury is Bulma now, huh? That's a pretty good choice. Actually surprised that a prolific seiyuu like Aya Hisakawa has only played minor roles in the
Dragon Ball franchise before now.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 18, 2018, 11:12:58 PM
Super Eyepatch Wolf just released a pretty neat video about the impact and influence of Dragon Ball Z: https://youtu.be/tuvSwb5KM6Q
Some of his statements about the dub and Falconer's soundtrack were cringey, and he's flat out wrong about DBZ being the first anime to feature recurring overarching antagonists who have an arc centered around them with a final showdown that lasts for multiple episodes. FOTNS, which he references in the video, being one of those very examples - Raoh, anyone? But overall SEW is really great at conveying how important the show was for those who grew up with it and emotionally expressing his connection with it, and I always appreciate that.
Then it's fitting that the fans hate Zeno.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmouse.latercera.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F03%2Fdragon-ball-poster.jpg&hash=150c97c56151bb41461457e3c8670daa9c10f44d)
Why you should be excited for the new Dragon Ball movie: https://youtu.be/Iq98LxorkxY
The animation staff really needed the shake-up, and it looks as though Toei is putting some real time and effort into this one.
Don't ever take anything said on a site like Comicbook.com at face value. It's a garbage click-bait buzz feed and has actually been known to spread misinformation in the past. Generally speaking, when it comes to Dragon Ball, anything posted by one of the Kanzenshuu regulars (such as Herms, among others) can be trusted. In fact, most other sources end up using their scans and translations as their source.
Now, in the case of DBS, I never doubted that DB will return to TV eventually within the forseeable future. However, to my knowledge, nothing has been officially stated on the matter by Toriyama, Shueisha, or Toei, other than that the movie will be picking up after the events of the Tournament of Power arc from Super, and that the manga will also cover past the Tournament of Power arc. Nothing has thus been stated about any more TV episodes being broadcast after 131 so far (though, again, I won't be surprised if we get such an announcement later on).
So in usual Toriyama fashion, a lot of the Universal Survival Saga was made up on the spot. (https://youtu.be/u7nUtYW9N5Q)
So, I always knew that Dragon Ball was and still is a hugely popular franchise all throughout Latin America, but damn: https://kotaku.com/massive-crowds-gather-to-watch-dragon-ball-super-togeth-1823882122/amp
Alright, here's a 20-second preview of what Dragon Ball looks like from the first production of the reorganized staff: https://youtu.be/xBflpbZawAY
It already looks miles better than both of the last two films, and even Super's best bits of animation.
The guy in charge of the animation is the very same person behind One Piece Film Z's animation team, and if you've seen that movie, you know that we should be in for some pretty slick visuals and incredible fluid movement.
Also, I detest Super's use of color saturation and horrendous lighting, so it's so refreshing to see all of that gone here as well. You can really tell that someone else is in charge of all of this, and really coming at this project with genuine passion for their craft.
At last, the detailed origins of Gohan Blanco. (https://youtu.be/Fq471WR5FAQ)
So in case you were worried that Dragon Ball was going away: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-03-27/toei-animation-to-establish-department-focused-on-dragon-ball/.129582
So, has anyone else been following the Giant Bomb podcast series All Systems Goku (https://www.giantbomb.com/podcasts/all-systems-goku/list/)?
It features two of the site's founders/editors Jeff Gerstmann and Dan Ryckert going through all of Dragon Ball Z Kai for the first time week-by-week in multi-episode chunks and discussing it. The twist here is that not only are they completely unfamiliar with Dragon Ball outside of coming across it in memes or various other forms of pop culture, but they have barely any prior exposure to anime in general, so naturally their reactions to the craziness unfolding before them is outright fucking hilarious to listen to as they try to make sense of what they just watched. What's great about it though is seeing them actually get into the show and switch back and forth on which characters they root for or hate while also trying to figure out how the next batch of episodes will go. In particular, I love their commentary on Vegeta's moments in the Namek arc since that features both some of the show's most bad-ass and outright bizarre moments. It's also a blast to see their "WTF is that?" reactions to the many strange side characters in this series, though.
I'm really liking the Zamasu arc, but I do have to ask, are Saiyans really mortal? They're pretty damn powerful mortals, anyway.
I think it's more of a lifespan-based thing than a power-based thing. The Gods live for millenia and also play roles of creation, destruction, or guarding their respective Universe. While Saiyans do live a longer life-span than humans, they seem to be implied to last centuries at most, and also don't play any divine role in the Universe. Also keep in mind that Saiyans like Goku, Vegeta, and their offspring are anomalies among their race, whereas average Saiyans that represent the race in general are considered to be sub-par on a power scale compared to other beings like Freeza or various more powerful races and entities in their Universe. Freeza himself implies that their strength is grouping up in numbers, before Toriyama retcons their natural characteristics to be preferring one-on-one battles. In general, though, Zamasu seems to think anyone other than the Kais are inherently evil, and refers to anyone who's not a Kai, Angel, or God of Destruction as mortal.
Come to think of it, having read through most of Walt Simonson's Thor run recently, they seem to use a similar methodology for differentiating Gods and mortals despite the fact that there are clearly non-Gods as strong or even stronger than Thor, along with the fact that Thor can also most definitely be killed.
I watched that Dragon Ball Heroes thing that came out a day ago, and not a lick of it made any sense. Then I read the wiki that explained what Dragon Ball Heroes was, and it made even less sense.
It's promotional material for a video game.
The movie's villain has been revealed to be Broly.
....And just like that, my interest level has gone way down. :imnothappy:
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 09, 2018, 03:19:15 PMThe movie's villain has been revealed to be Broly.
....And just like that, my interest level has gone way down. :imnothappy:
I'm divided on this news.
My first thought: Ugh. Broly AGAIN?! He's such a boring, one-dimensional villain.
My second thought: You know... Toriyama will be writing this character for the first time. Maybe the show's creator can improve him?
Could go either way. :??:
Would be funny if Kale showed up and met him.
The DBZA fan in me wants him to meet Future Trunks in this canon.
Anyways, while Toriyama has noted that he will be changing up the character, I'm still very skeptical. On the one hand, he did re-write Beerus from a generic villain into a much more interesting neutral figure that was a genuinely good addition to DB's cast. On the other hand, he had made a lot of the original cast of characters significantly worse, except for Vegeta and Bulma who were by far the stand-outs of Super, and on top of that he basically helped to create his own version of a character just as bland and boring as Broly with Jiren. And let's not forget how he butchered Bardock's character, who was another fan-favorite not originally created by him. Granted, it's pretty hard to make Broly any worse than he already is.
So, I don't exactly have the utmost confidence in modern Toriyama's ability to write interesting characters or stories. That said, I'll hold out at least a bit of hope that the anime writers will work with Toriyama to iron out a more interesting narrative since on a production side they seem to be putting way more effort into this movie than any previous Dragon Ball anime project.
FUNimation will be screening the movie in select theaters early next year: http://m.ign.com/articles/2018/07/12/funimation-is-bringing-dragon-ball-super-broly-to-north-american-theaters-in-2019
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiL5-rdV4AAD20r.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiL5-ruVAAAbYu6.jpg)
Now tell me if this Broly can say words other than "Kakarot".
Well, this is what happens when you switch out the staff to include someone like Shintani who is a good character model designer and animation director, versus a guy who admits to being stagnated by doing nothing but Dragon Ball related projects for the last two decades.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiMMxAdX0AAXJHC.jpg)
So in the Super manga, 17 somehow found and domesticated a bunch of Cell Jrs.
Official English Dubbed Trailer: https://youtu.be/FHgm89hKpXU
Sabat teaches his daughter about Dragon Ball. (https://youtu.be/vMpLVYksxbs)
Broly Trailer 2 is out. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FygfNXdo8uw)
Dragon Ball Minus is now canon.
I'm conflicted. The film looks gorgeous, but with so many characters and two storylines to juggle, I feel like it'll be overstuffed with fanservice and spectacle at the cost of a compelling story. They could improve on Dragon Ball Minus significantly, so I hope they take the time to flesh it out and explore the characters in an interesting way, instead of simply regurgitating the plot beats from Toriyama's bare-bones one-shot.
My initial excitement of Dragon Ball returning wore down a bit over time in Super's run, but really hit a nosedive somewhere in the middle of the Tournament of Power arc. I'm not going to get into a whole rant here, but needless to say I'm in complete agreement with Mistare Fustion on that arc, and in general I'm actually a little frustrated with how low-effort the writing for Super got. In retrospect, I have a lot more problems with the Goku Black arc than I did on my first viewing of it, but I'll still always give it credit for at least trying something different, even if not handled in the best of ways. It's clear that with the Tournament of Power arc, everything was centered around just throwing in as much crowd-pleasing fan-service as possible without any regard for how to build up characters, story, rivalries, fights, drama, tension, personal stakes, or essentially anything that goes into crafting a good piece of fiction.
While Dragon Ball's original manga run wasn't necessarily the most consistent in quality, I enjoyed almost all of it to varying degrees because Toriyama at least had a sense of always building things up, even in his earlier and more humorous arcs, and I can say with certainty that each major story arc managed to feel distinctly unique and different from what came both before and after it. A lot of Super really just blended together for me outside of a few key episodes.
At any rate, the whole point of this rant is that this has also left me very skeptical going into the new Broly movie. I trust the animation staff and animation director (the same guy who worked on One Piece: Film Z) to give us an entertaining product, but I don't trust either Toriyama's current story-telling ability or any of the writers on Toei's staff to actually deliver us a memorable product that meaningfully expands Dragon Ball's lore. We haven't really had anything like that since Battle of Gods, and at this point the addition of Beerus and Whis being such major hit characters kind of feels like a fluke at this point.
I agree with most of MistareFusion's criticisms (as well as those of Team Four Star and Kanzenshuu in their retrospectives), but I admit, even though the Tournament of Power was more of a string of moments than a cohesive story, I genuinely loved watching it and found it really fun and satisfying pretty much the whole way through. You could say they succeeded in servicing me as a fan in that regard. :D Still, as much as I enjoyed seeing some underutilized characters get some spotlight, I think the most valuable part of the arc were the new characters from the other universes they introduced and the stories that came with them, particularly the likes of Caulifla, Kale, Ribrianne, Toppo, and Jiren (by the end of the arc), whom I'm hoping will be explored further and expanded upon in future Dragon Ball stories. It's a shame that we had to be introduced to them in a long tournament first, which really did feel like the series jogging in place after making some steps forward with the Goku Black arc.
The Super film is weird to me, because it's clearly trying to have it both ways. It's taking a step forward by giving Dragon Ball an aesthetic overhaul, but at the same time it's taking steps backwards by regurgitating stories and reusing characters we've already seen before. I'm basically in agreement with your feelings on it. It doesn't seem like the movie has any new ideas to propel the franchise in a truly new direction or expand on it in interesting ways like BoG did, which is really disappointing. I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but what I really want is to be surprised by it, which is something I haven't felt from Dragon Ball since BoG.
(https://i.imgur.com/guRes2x.jpg)
I've been more leaning toward the PlagueofGripes school of Super criticism, but yeah. I enjoyed the Goku Black arc because it felt like Dragonball was finally getting dragged into the modern era instead of rehashing old stories, up until the Zeno ending of course, so the Tournament of Power felt tired. Sure, the Kefla fight and the final battle with Jiren were cool to watch, but it didn't feel like Toriyama or Toyotaro were thinking ahead. I guess I liked the Other World Tournament as a kid, and watching what was essentially a remake of it was all right, but when 4/5ths of the Super arcs were either adaptations of movies or tournament arcs, you gotta wonder if either creator knows what to do with Dragonball anymore.
Broly trailer #3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuIbeQv3v7c)
This is the song they're using for the Broly movie. Not sure what I expected. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhlJoNJd2ZQ)
Well it is different from what you'd typically expect from Dragonball. While it's not really my kind of music, I'm still welcome to trying to change things up for this franchise as a whole. My biggest problem with Super (among many) is how safe it played things. I'm really hoping that the new Broly movie will actually take some risks for a change. I'm not holding out much hope for that, but will be impressed if it does defy my expectations in at least some ways. Again, Dragonball hasn't done that for me since Battle of Gods.
It's more of a traditional pop song, for sure. I think it fits appropriately enough - it's generally upbeat and pumpy but there's ominous and melancholic parts too, so I think it succinctly captures the emotions the film is trying to evoke in five minutes.
At this point I'm pretty stoked for the Broly movie. I'm interested in seeing what they'll do with a more sympathetic take on his character, and industry professionals and everyone's who gotten to see it early has praised the visuals up the wazoo. Even if it's more spectacle than substance, I'm totally down for a spectacle that looks as good as the trailers have promised.
Funi got Ash to play the Teletubby. (https://youtu.be/Xkxpt0lj4WE)
Thoughts on this year's DBcember, TeamFourStar's Top 12 Dragon Ball Fights? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX2-7nyJukQ)
For reference, their picks were:
Spoiler
12. Goku & Vegeta vs. Janemba
11. Goku vs. Jackie Chun
10. Vegeta, Gohan, & Krillin vs. Recoome
9. Goku vs. Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai)
8. Goku vs. Majin Vegeta
7. Piccolo vs. Android 17
6. Goku vs. Kid Buu
5. Goku vs. Beerus (Battle of Gods ver.)
4. Goku vs. Perfect Cell
3. Goku, Freeza, and Android 17 vs. Jiren
2. Goku vs. Piccolo Jr.
1. Goku, Gohan, Krillin, & Yajirobe vs. Vegeta
I think it's a pretty solid list. Obviously I might've shifted things around based on my own personal taste, but I can agree that all of these fights are top-notch, iconic, and good representatives of different types of
Dragon Ball fights.
As for my own top 12 favorite DB fights list, right now I'd go with this:
12. Goku, Freeza, & Android 17 vs. Jiren
11. Goku vs. Hit (Tournament of Destroyers)
10. Goku vs. Beerus (Battle of Gods)
9. Goku vs. Jackie Chun
8. Goku, Vegeta, Mr. Satan, & Majin Buu vs. Kid Buu
7. Goku vs. Ninja Murasaki
6. Goku vs. Cell
5. Goku vs. Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai)
4. Goku, Gohan, Krillin, & Piccolo vs. Freeza
3. Goku vs. King Piccolo
2. Goku, Gohan, Krillin, & Yajirobe vs. Vegeta
1. Goku vs. Piccolo Jr.
There's a lot of other great fights in the series that I love, but I went with choosing my favorite per arc in rough order in how much I enjoyed them/my emotional investment in them.
You're number seven pick was all I needed to see. Now there's a good and proper Dragonball fan. :thumbup:
I'm going to be controversial here and say that the final fight with Jiren doesn't work as well for me as it does for everyone else, not because the fight itself isn't well done, but because it doesn't feel earned. Context of a fight due to build-up is just as important as the actual content, IMO, which is why I somewhat disagree with TFS criticizing the Gohan Vs. Cell fight as being too one-sided. While it is one-sided, it's entirely effective because of the build-up leading to the ultimate climax of Gohan's character arc, and is kept interesting since we finally get to see him succumb to the more violent nature of his Saiyan-heritage, which leads to negative results.
Idk, Goku and Freeza working together to take down Jiren really worked for me. There were several moments throughout the arc that built up Goku and Freeza as unlikely teammates like their scuffle at Baba's place, Freeza lending Goku energy after his first fight with Jiren, briefly interjecting into the Caulifla and Kale fight, rescuing Goku from being thrown out of the ring by Anilaza and joining the rest of the U7 team to fight against it, etc. So them working together to take out Jiren felt like a satisfying culmination of that unlikely trust and comradery they formed during the arc to me. And of course, Goku and Freeza teaming up against a common foe has so much weight behind it considering their history and Freeza's meta-status as the franchise's definitive antagonist. So it had a lot going for it on an emotional/hype level for me, and it certainly helps that the fight itself is one of the best animated and choreographed in the entire series.
As for Gohan vs. Cell, while I agree the fight is an effective emotional payoff to Gohan's character arc and exploration of his character, I do agree with TFS that the fight feels more defined by moments like Gohan going SSJ2 and the Father-Son Kamehameha rather than the combat itself, which is why I also agree that Goku vs. Cell is better as a fight because of all the interesting back-and-forths that happen in it even if it isn't as emotionally gripping.
To Lum's point: I understand all of that, but where my stance differs from yours and TFS's is that the narrative throughline and character arcs going into a fight is what makes the fight for me. Some of the best fights I have seen are not necessarily that grandiose in scale and don't have to be evenly matched in order to be great (Date Eiji vs. Ricardo Martinez from HnI is often considered a fan favorite for this very reason). I personally disagree that Gohan Vs. Cell is only comprised of some memorable moments and the rest of the fight is forgettable since I can trace the events of the fight from beginning to end, since it reads more like an actual story than just punches and energy blasts. Even if Gohan has the upper hand, the escalating tension is still there since the flaw of his Saiyan rage prevents him from just finishing Cell off, which leaves you in anticipation since you just know that something bad is about to happen if Gohan keeps that behavior up (and of course it does).
For me personally, the Jiren fight has memorable scenes but it all lacks weight to me since the story failed to make me really care about the characters participating in that fight.
Anyways, just my two-cents on that.
I still need to see Broly before it's too late.
I'm still watching Super on Toonami (and yes, I know the movie spoils some of it- I don't care that much), and just saw this easter egg (https://youtu.be/Ucs8S5pbPwc). Really cool!
Broly is a lot of fun, and I say this as someone who has been fairly critical of Super. Toriyama managed to get a lot right this time around, and hearing that his original draft of the script would have made for a 3-hour movie, I'm honestly interested to know what else he would have gone into.
You don't need to have finished Super to follow the story, And it doesn't technically even spoil that much since it never actually tells you who won the Tournament of Power or anything like that.
I particularly love the humor in this movie. It's very classic Toriyama, with one joke in particular being such a great callback to old-school Dragon Ball.
This movie did the impossible and made me actually give a shit about Broly as a character, with a surprising amount of nuance for Dragon Ball. It also introduced some genuinely great new characters, with Cheelai being a particular standout for many, including myself. Also, Berry Blue has the potential to be my favorite Freeza henchman (woman?) ever if they utilize her like they did hear when Dragon Ball inevitably returns on the air.
After this movie, I'm genuinely interested to see the direction that the franchise moves in from here.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 24, 2019, 06:27:29 PMI particularly love the humor in this movie. It's very classic Toriyama, with one joke in particular being such a great callback to old-school Dragon Ball.
I liked they've shown a shift in Frieza's personality, and his hopes for immortality are now a thing of the past. He's still an asshole, but the events of Super have changed him. He's far more cautious, less willing to go headfirst into Goku, and didn't even raise a finger when Berryblue talked back to him. It was also interesting to note how much his desires in the movie mirror Bulma's, and how that gives an unnerving interpretation of Vegeta's relationship with both of them.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 24, 2019, 09:59:29 PMI liked they've shown a shift in Frieza's personality, and his hopes for immortality are now a thing of the past. He's still an asshole, but the events of Super have changed him.
He's easily my favorite character in Super because of his unique development as a villain. He's no longer the top dog overlord of the Dragon Ball Universe, but in a way he kind of feels like he has traces of Loki to his character, with Freeza now being more mischievous and witty in his dealings with the Saiyans and Galactic Patrol rather than just trying to take them on with brute force.
QuoteHe's far more cautious, less willing to go headfirst into Goku, and didn't even raise a finger when Berryblue talked back to him.
Speaking of Berryblue, I'm liking the fan theory that she was Freeza's nanny during King Cold's reign. It'd add a pretty amusing layer to their relationship compared to Freeza's other henchmen.
QuoteIt was also interesting to note how much his desires in the movie mirror Bulma's, and how that gives an unnerving interpretation of Vegeta's relationship with both of them.
I noticed that he also basically wants the same wish that Commander Red did. As for his similarities with Bulma, I do really like how Toriyama is emphasizing that both the villains and heroes of this Universe can still both be equally petty.
Heard someone theorize that the next Super movie will be a Cooler one, and I'm not sure about a series of films that remake the old DBZ movies. Because there will be a point when the well's dry, Toei runs out of fan-favorite villains, and we'd eventually get Dragon Ball Super: Slug and Dragon Ball Super: Hirudegarn.
Pretty sure this series solidified Cooler's non-canon status when he wasn't even so much as mentioned in the half-hour of Saiyan backstory that showed off King Cold passing the torch to his son Freeza to rule over his empire.
And, while they managed to take a villain I couldn't stand and actually make him the best new character that we've seen since Beerus (and yes, I'm considering him new since he's basically a completely different character than his original 90's incarnation), I wouldn't be keen to see them remake any other movie-original characters except for maybe Tapion. Really, though, one of my biggest pet-peeves with Super has been when it has relied on the nostalgia-factor of bringing back old favorites and getting far too referential of older story-lines rather than moving forward with something new. When you think about Dragon Ball's original manga run, it rarely over brought up old characters or stories and instead just moved the story forward organically with new villains and new plot-lines emerging naturally. The reference to the Red Ribbon Army in the Android saga as a major plot point was an exception to Toriyama's writing style, not the norm.
I'm actually cautiously optimistic of the new story-line going by the manga, as it has introduced a brand new villain who's powers seem to be based more in magic than in physical strength (though he's implied to be insanely powerful too). He's like a way buffer version of Babidi, and to add to the comparison he even apparently has an interest in Majin Buu for yet to be revealed reasons. He's also a planet eater apparently so he's sort of like the Galactus of the the Dragon Ball Universe in a way. It's also nice to see the role of the Galactic Patrol being expanded on in this arc. It could still easily turn to shit, but I find what I'm seeing to be very promising so far.
Oh, I got to see Broly the other night, and I really enjoyed it. The pacing was surprisingly solid, especially for the action which worked pretty well being condensed into a movie and not spread over multiple episodes. But I think my favorite thing, besides Broly getting more personality than before, is how Frieza is getting some character growth without softening him. He's worked well as a villain before, but I especially enjoyed him in the movie.
However, I think my biggest problem with it is that it wasn't great with its new female characters. Goku's mom doesn't get a chance to have personality, especially compared to Bardock, but what really bugged me was the member of Frieza's force who had a thing for Broly. She was given a lot of obvious fanservice angles, which didn't need to happen, and she didn't have much going for her character wise to begin with. But whatever, shonen has always had issues with female characters.
Quote from: Avaitor on February 08, 2019, 09:31:09 PMOh, I got to see Broly the other night, and I really enjoyed it. The pacing was surprisingly solid, especially for the action which worked pretty well being condensed into a movie and not spread over multiple episodes. But I think my favorite thing, besides Broly getting more personality than before, is how Frieza is getting some character growth without softening him. He's worked well as a villain before, but I especially enjoyed him in the movie.
Seriously, on paper, bringing Freeza back seemed like one of the worst writing decisions that I could possibly imagine for the franchise. Yet not only did they manage to make it work, but he has consistently been one of the best things about Super since his return in the Tournament of Power, and he is one of the few characters who's role and development in the series has actually improved from his original incarnation in Z. The writers could have easily made a lame attempt to make him a cringe-worthy copy of Piccolo or Vegeta with a half-assed redemption arc, but they thankfully were smart enough to avoid that and gave him developments that made him more nuanced while never betraying the core concept of his character. He's still a scummy ass-hole looking out for his own interests, and I absolutely love it.
And glad to hear that you enjoyed the movie. I really feel that changing the animation director to Shintani really did wonders for his project, not just in terms of looking better but also in terms of capturing a more fluid feel to Dragon Ball than what we got in the television version of Super.
QuoteHowever, I think my biggest problem with it is that it wasn't great with its new female characters. Goku's mom doesn't get a chance to have personality, especially compared to Bardock, but what really bugged me was the member of Frieza's force who had a thing for Broly. She was given a lot of obvious fanservice angles, which didn't need to happen, and she didn't have much going for her character wise to begin with. But whatever, shonen has always had issues with female characters.
I agree about Gine. I was never a fan of the concept of revealing Goku's mom in the first place, as there was no narrative purpose for it in the story and it actually ruins the more interesting aspects of Bardock's character from his original incarnation, IMO. If you can believe it, Dragon Ball Minus's representation of her was even worse.
I have to personally disagree with you about Cheelai, though. She's one of the rare few instances of a well-written female character (at least so far) by Toriyama's standards. On the fan-service front, I don't think simply having that makes a weak female character. I mean, if we're going by that logic, the series is crammed full of male fan-service with all of the half-naked muscle-bound dudes you see throughout most of it's run. But more-so it's made apparent that Cheelai doesn't act like your typical tsundere female heroine and instead doesn't really care about how other guys view her as we see in the cafeteria scene. She's more tomboyish than anything else and seems to own up to her sexuality without ever really exploiting it too much. I can understand being annoyed by some of the more obviously angled shots in which she's showcased in, but that's hardly something new for Dragon Ball, and is fairly tame by the standards of a lot of other anime.
As for her interest in Broly, the impression I got is that she seems a bit infatuated with him, but that's as far as it goes at this point in the story. More than anything, though, she is shown to be more interested in liberating him from being constrained by his abusive relationship with his father. She takes an active role and uses her own decision-making to try and reach out to him and help him out. Her stealing and destroying his shock collar remote may not have been such a good thing for his confrontation with Goku and Vegeta (who I would like to point out are not actually the protagonists of this movie; Broly is), but it's also her quick thinking and call to action that ends up saving him in the end and giving him a second chance. She comes off as a very proactive character and actually helps drive the plot forward. While she's hasn't done enough to necessarily be as interesting as Bulma or Videl (before the epilogue of DBZ for the latter), I found her introduction into the story to be about as solid as the one that Beerus and Whis got (who are easily among the best additions to the franchise since it's revival). She didn't have a lot of screentime, but the movie and script were very ergonomic with the time that she had, and her backstory was basic but did what it needed to set-up her character as not being a villain but working with them out of necessity. She was pretty full of personality as well in a way that made her distinct from any other member of the Freeza Force. It's not something that will establish her as a fully-realized character in and of itself, but in the context of serialized story-telling, it's a more than worthy introduction that makes me personally interested to see her further developments in the series (assuming that they don't botch it, which is entirely possible). So, at the very least, I personally can't agree that she doesn't have much going for her character-wise.
More importantly, though, only since you brought it up, this is something that I have to ask in general: What's with this stigma in modern criticism of gender-representation that just because a female character shows any romantic interest in a male character that it's now considered a sign of weakness or poor characterization? And even at that, it's only ever implied in this movie at best.
Sorry if that came off a bit rambly/ranty. That wasn't really my intention, but I'm also half-asleep right now and lack the proper train of thought to get my points more concise. I can understand your viewpoint, of course, but just wanted to share my take on it. I probably made it sound like a bigger deal than it is, though, and will feel stupid about it in the morning. :sweat:
This reminds me of that rant Kaiserneko gave about Videl's role in DBZ, and how she gets the fight snuffed out of her early into the Majin Buu arc. (https://twitter.com/KaiserNeko/status/1084708816925704192) Something even Videl's VA agreed with. (https://twitter.com/karaedwards/status/1084856473379897345) Cheelai's definitely better executed though, and characters like Caulifla and Future Mai, along with Bulma's continued importance in contrast to Gohan's demotion in relevance, show that Super's a little better at handling female characters than the later parts of DBZ. And especially GT and how it never figured out what to do with Pan.
One of GT's biggest missteps was in not making Pan an actual fighter and the true protagonist of the show as she should have been. This should have been a Next Generation story, but instead the show utilizes Goku as a crutch and always has him be the one to solve every problem. I personally feel that as a grandfather, he should be a mentor to Pan and take more of a supporting (but still significant) role. I feel as though DBZ should have been the end of his story as the protagonist, and that GT should have had him pass the torch on to Pan (since Z already missed the boat on Gohan). Really big missed opportunity there.
Dragonball becoming a generational saga instead of The Goku Show is something that will never sit well with me. Gohan and Videl had a surprisingly sweet relationship. Seeing him dress up as Saiyaman and figure out his way around civilian life was fun (even the anime filler). And while I liked Majin Buu, his saga hijacking Gohan's character arc in the middle of the tournament wasn't right. It's where Toriyama's "making up the story as he went along" approach to writing reaches its worst excesses. And while it led to some good parts like Mr. Satan's and Buu's friendship and Vegeta's realization that he's grown fond of his Earth life, the possibilities could have been so much more.
I want Son's Bizarre Adventure. Each new series explores a different generational member of the Son line following Goku. Freeza can be the Dio of that series, and "useless" would be replaced with "filthy monkey" as his fighting chant. We can even get the Ginyu Force to come back and rip-off this dance (https://youtu.be/AQx_KMoCgJU).
It'll be a huge hit, I'm sure.
I'll admit that I was harsher on Cheelai than I should have been. I didn't like her as much as you did this time, but she is better than I gave credit for, and hopefully a rewatch can help me warm up to her.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0Jr8GxXcAI2yVs.jpg)
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Why is Dragonball Heroes so ridiculous?
So we are getting new remastered Blu-Rays of Dragon Ball Z in the 4:3 aspect ratio with improved audio quality (something people have been asking over a decade for Toei to release), and as someone who missed out on the Dragon Boxes, I'll be all over this new release when it comes out.
If they even get made...they're requiring at least 2500 fans to preorder them before they even begin production. (https://www.funimation.com/dbz30th/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=032019-hv-dragonballz-30th&utm_source=&utm_content=ce-announcement&utm_nooverride=1) Granted, I'm sure there's 2500 fans out there who'll eagerly preorder this, but it still rubs me the wrong way that they expect fans to do so without even showing a preview of what the remastered footage even looks like. I'm holding out on buying this until I see how it looks, though to be honest, I'd much rather buy a remastered release of Dragon Ball than I am DBZ.
I got curious, so I decided to watch Curse of the Blood Rubies. Credit where credit is due, this is a decently paced way to condense the Pilaf saga into a Jump-length feature, and it's decently animated. But the new characters don't really add much of value to the movie, and at the end of the day, this just isn't how I'm used to this story.
It's a cool sidestep, but not something I'll come back to.
Yeah, retelling the early story arcs of Dragon Ball is something that Toei did for the first and third movie (the third being a bit better at this from what I remember). These never tend to be nearly as good as what they are based on (the same goes for a few of the One Piece movies that tried the same thing), but for what it's worth Path to Power did a relatively decent job of mixing the Pilaf and Red Ribbon Army arcs into a cohesive, generally entertaining narrative. It's nothing all that special, but it's worth a watch for a Dragon Ball movie, IMO.
Cool! Maybe I'll check that out too at some point. If nothing else, these are interesting asterisks in the DB chronology.
goat noises incoming (https://twitter.com/KaiserNeko/status/1107378898302570496)
Moro is shaping up to be an interesting villain and overall arc, and it does not require anyone to have seen the Broly movie or even the last few arcs of Super, so a recap would be pointless here.
Really glad that Shintani is the new supervising director of this series. He has earned it.
So, remember those 30th anniversary Dragon Ball remaster sets that FUNimation was hyping up? Yeah....turns out they are trying to pull some shit again that's on par with the "Orange Brick" sets: https://youtu.be/TR8eAfJjNEw
FUNimation continues to drop the ball (no pun intended): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QZDHVwpHZo
I really wish that I had bought the Dragon Boxes back when I had the chance. It's becoming clear that we are never really going to get a proper release of the series in North America at this point, or pretty much anywhere outside of Japan.
Someone recently dug up an old vhs of FUNimation's early dub of Curse of the Blood Rubies that used the Harmony Gold names. (https://twitter.com/TanookiKuribo/status/1133507966907428869) The early DB dub attempts are hard to find, so I'm glad this one has been rediscovered. I'm hoping the entire thing gets ripped and put online for posterity soon.
So, reliable sources have indeed confirmed that there is in fact plans to produce another animated Dragon Ball movie (not anytime this year, mind you), and this is separate from any news relating to Super's return to television. On the latter in particular, while it was originally speculated to be returning in July this year, that obviously isn't happening at this point, but I wouldn't take that as a sign that it's not coming back at all. More than likely Toei is just delaying and rescheduling the re-launch of the series as they see fit. I'd like to think that this is at least partly because they have learned their lesson from Super's disastrous initial launch in 2015 and want to make sure a decent amount of episodes are completed so as to maintain a more well-balanced production schedule for the series' run from this point on.
That said, the notion of a new movie has me excited since Broly did a lot to restore my faith in the franchise, even though I'm still not entirely won over yet as much as I enjoyed that movie. Personally, while I don't think that they'd ever do this, I wouldn't mind if for the TV side of things they produced 1-2 cour seasons for TV every year (in-line with how most other anime are produced these days), which would definitely help with the production schedule as well as story-planning. These seasons could tell a complete story-arc in and of themselves, and rather than trying to up the ante they could actually focus on smaller-scale incidents that capture more of the adventure-esque feel of early Dragon Ball, and wouldn't even necessarily need to put the primary focus on Goku and Vegeta. Then the movies could come once every 2-3 years and be the big event stories like how Broly was. I feel like a set-up like that would be a lot more fresh, engaging, and exciting, than the run of Super that we had for the last few years.
Yeah, I think Dragon Ball Super would really benefit from going seasonal. They can plan out a story arc that can last 1 to 2 cours and be able to produce it properly without needing to drag things out or stall until they've come up with the next arc. I think the best strategy they could go with is having Super have a tv season one year, then a movie the next year, and then continue alternating like that. Two different formats to allow for different-size stories to be told properly.
The FUNi cast did some raunchy porn takes while recording DBZ back in the day.
The audio has been leaked. (https://twitter.com/Retro_History_z/status/1167318289468416004)
Damn....https://youtu.be/MFJr0qj7_Jk
Turns out this is far from the first time these bloopers have leaked, and the VAs mention them all the time at 18+ panels. (https://twitter.com/tokkanram/status/1167602564692508672)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 30, 2019, 10:48:20 PM
Turns out this is far from the first time these bloopers have leaked, and the VAs mention them all the time at 18+ panels. (https://twitter.com/tokkanram/status/1167602564692508672)
Either way, you've just gotta love how Vic stans are somehow making this out to he some damning evidence that will lose FUNimation the case. One party is accused of physically engaging in inappropriate misconduct with fans, some of who were underage. The other got caught making some dirty jokes from a couple of decades ago. These two things clearly don't add up to the same level.
The attempted smokescreen is extra hilarious considering that Vic stans are 100% the kind of people who complain about outrage culture/censorship killing comedy and would absolutely love these outtakes if they were from anyone else under any other circumstances.
Yeah, when I saw the news about these "leaks", I just kept thinking "didn't I already know about these? For years?"
In case you wanted to hear (https://www.twitch.tv/thedigimonprince/clip/BillowingSullenCurryVoteYea) five Friezas wish you a Merry Christmas. (https://www.twitch.tv/thedigimonprince/clip/RefinedArbitraryJaguarSSSsss)
Thoughts on this year's DBcember? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_7SOYPgam0&ab_channel=TeamFourStar)
Spoiler
I was surprised Ultra Instinct made it to #2. I like it a lot, but I figured it wouldn't rank super high since the TFS team is pretty down on Super overall. I would've liked to see Zarbon and Freeza's other transformations make the cut because I think they're iconic too, but otherwise, I think it's a pretty solid list.
Also, I thought MistareFusion's dissection of why Majin Vegeta doesn't work for him very interesting. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK5vb32aFSA&ab_channel=MistareFusion) I still like the moment and its place in the story and Vegeta's character arc myself, but as usual I can't disagree with much of his points, particularly the disconnect between how the fandom often interprets the event and sees Vegeta's character versus what his characterization and role in the series actually is until the very end.
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New DBS movie announced today at Comic-Con.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucCLPkniOus
Not gonna lie, I forgot the news of this movie we heard from several months ago was technically a leak and not an official announcement. So, when this news came out I was wondering: "Why are they announcing another Dragon Ball Super movie for next year when we haven't even gotten the previous one they announced yet?"
It took me a bit longer than I'd care to admit to realize that this is merely the official reveal of one of Toei's worst kept secrets. :sweat:
Also, I just realized that the official title of this movie is Dragon Ball Super Super Hero....kind of reminds me of back when we had Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan....
I'm glad time finally feels like it's starting to move in Dragon Ball again, what with Pan clearly growing up to be more kindergarten age in this film. I also appreciate that it seems like this film will lean more into the goofy what with the title "Super Hero" and including Pan and exploring random silly details like Piccolo's house. According to the SDCC panel this is the most involved Toriyama's been in the scriptwriting of any of the films, so I'm curious to see how more of his sense of humor and storytelling shines through in the finished film. I'm also not opposed to the film being a 2D/CG animation hybrid unlike most people up in arms about it. The teaser with Goku's CG model being animated looked stylized well, and considering most of the concept art shown in the panel was 2D, I'm thinking more of it will be traditionally animated than folks are worrying about.
R.I.P. Chris Ayres (https://twitter.com/WowSuchKrystal/status/1450591801077796871)
So I have to admit, I wasn't all that excited for Super Hero since I felt from the trailers it would feel like a filler movie and I wasn't digging the animation style. That said after seeing it I genuinely had fun with most of it. There are a laundry-list of issues I have with it, but that applies to pretty much most of modern Dragon Ball and even the later arcs of the manga, so it's not exclusively this movie's fault.
The CG animation is still not my thing but it worked better than I expected it to. What won me over was the character work and humor. Now contrary to marketing, Gohan doesn't get quite as much screen time as you would expect. He's more prominently featured here than in anything since Battle of Gods, but still feels like more of a supporting character until the final act. What I do love is that Piccolo is basically the main character of this movie for most if it, and I just love that. It's kind of refreshing to see Goku and Vegeta basically sidelined to just cameos, and having a movie focusing on just the supporting cast. It's also a geuinely funny movie for fans of classic Dragon Ball. And what's even better is that it's a sequel to the Red Ribbon Army saga, which as many of you know is my personal favorite arc in the entire series.
That said the final act sucks, IMO, not only because of a lame (IMO) villain replacing the villain we had up to this point (who was again a great tribute to classic Dragon Ball), but because it falls into all of the worst habits of late Dragon Ball and the movies in that it's a lot of mindless action with really weak story-telling and ridiculous plot conveniences. However the, the saving grace for me was that the final act/battle was relatively short, rather than being the entire second half of the movie.
Anyways, it was a nice pleasant surprise overall. If Broly can be considered the best attempt from modern Dragon Ball to recapture the feeling of DBZ, then Super Hero can be considered as the best attempt to recapture the humor and pure entertainment value of classic Dragon Ball.
I just saw Super Hero, and my Piccolo and Gohan-loving young self totally enjoyed it. I would have preferred traditional hand-drawn animation than the CG they used, but after a couple of minutes and some classic DB action, I think it turns out fine.
While I agree that the last act was a little disappointing, I still think that Super works better in movie format than as a series. I'd like to see more feature length stories that focus on more than just Goku and Vegeta fighting the next strongest force they can. Maybe next time we can have a story involving Krillin, Roshi, Yamcha and Tien, or a Future Trunks adventure. Or maybe the movie will be about Goten and Trunks, since they've finally grown up a little.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 28, 2022, 03:55:15 PMI just saw Super Hero, and my Piccolo and Gohan-loving young self totally enjoyed it. I would have preferred traditional hand-drawn animation than the CG they used, but after a couple of minutes and some classic DB action, I think it turns out fine.
Part of the reason for this is because many of the key animation staff that worked on Broly have been tied up with other projects at Toei, most notably One Piece. The Wano arc is a very hyped up arc so Toei has had many of it's best animators working on several episodes of it (and it shows) and there's also Film Red coming out later this year. I suspect that some or even all of those animators will be used for future Dragon Ball projects again in the coming years, though.
QuoteWhile I agree that the last act was a little disappointing, I still think that Super works better in movie format than as a series. I'd like to see more feature length stories that focus on more than just Goku and Vegeta fighting the next strongest force they can. Maybe next time we can have a story involving Krillin, Roshi, Yamcha and Tien, or a Future Trunks adventure. Or maybe the movie will be about Goten and Trunks, since they've finally grown up a little.
I think this is the consensus with most people, including myself. Part of the problem with the TV series format was that despite not having to worry about catching up to the manga (which has become it's own thing at this point) it still felt very padded for time and the story arcs lacked the momentum of that constant driving force that was present in the original run of the manga.
The movies by necessity have to trim the fat and drop all of the extra baggage to focus on the core story, character beats, and humor, and that works so much better than the drawn out nature of the show. I have re-watched Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, and Broly several times, but can't bring myself to re-watch a single episode of the show (I mostly just revisit some of the better scenes and moments on YouTube).
Totally Not Mark also had a great video explaining why, despite some great animation, the fights lack the same excitement, weight, and impact that they had in the original series since they are used as a supplemental break in-between the story beats rather than being firmly integrated into the story-telling itself like they were in the original run of the manga, and that really does make sense when you think about it.
New Dragon Ball anime coming next year for the franchise's 40th anniversary!
Although, I gotta ask... WTF is this? (https://twitter.com/DbsHype/status/1712526011420782657)
Honestly, whatever it is, I'm willing to give it more of a chance then a straight-up continuation of Super, which I got really burned out on by the end.
As for this, I'm not surprised with the more "cute" and presumably comedic direction this is going in since Toriyama was said to be more involved in this project. The fans who are surprised tend to be specifically DBZ fans while anyone more familiar with the rest of Toriyama's work knows that he tends to prefer things more goofy and over-the-top, so what I'm seeing is right up his alley.
Not sure how I feel about this one, considering I came up on Dragon Ball, but got really hooked on Z, and even then, abridged ruined Dragon Ball in its entirety for me. Like, I can never watch the original series because TFS did a better job with it (even though Bruce Falconer's tracks are goat'd). Get to Super, it's ok, I guess. I haven't watched nearly enough of it. I saw a lot of the key fights and that's about it.
I will always be that guy that care more about fights then goofy, silliness, so as a 1st reaction, no this is not for me, but at the end of the day this is still Dragon Ball so I won't dismiss it completely. Hell, who knows, I barely put aside time to watch anything these days so I may never get around to watching it anyway, but as long as YouTube exists I will definitely check out the fights.
I'm hopeful, while reading the manga in full has helped me to appreciate Z more as an adult, I'll always prefer the pacing of the original DB. I just hope that it sticks to that style and doesn't pull a GT, which tried to follow-up on Z's action with kid Goku and just couldn't make it work.
I'm sure it'll be fine, though my nitpick here is some of the child versions of these characters look nothing like they did when we actually saw them as kids. Like kid Chichi here looks nothing like Chichi from the first DB arc. They all just look like shorter versions of their adult selves.
And whenever this gets dubbed, I've still never gotten used to Clinkenbeard as kid Goku. I've read enough of the gossip to know why Nadolny will never come back, and I've gotten used to Gohan sounding different, but Funi could stand to recast Goku's child voice with someone who sounds more like he did in DB/GT.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on October 18, 2023, 04:40:07 PMI've read enough of the gossip to know why Nadolny will never come back, and I've gotten used to Gohan sounding different, but Funi could stand to recast Goku's child voice with someone who sounds more like he did in DB/GT.
Did we ever find out what happened to Nadolny? I remember her as the lead in
OK K.O. years ago on Cartoon Network, then she was just...suddenly recast after just a few episodes.
She has a history of DUIs. At least 4 according to this website. (https://drunkdrivers.org/arrested-for-drunk-driving-in-texas-tx/?co=Denton&abc=F&pg=13#searchbot) While I've seen others say she's been getting arrested for them since 2000.
It's also speculated that she and someone at Funi (possibly Sabbat) dated and had a falling out.
Dragon Ball's infamous Chinese knockoff is now streaming on Freevee. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/amzn1.dv.gti.5dc9333f-91b3-4b80-b1b8-396bb1a8b63b)
Akira Toriyama is dead at age 68 (https://twitter.com/DB_official_en/status/1765935471971213816)
Well, this sucks...
This was a shock to hear. I don't even know how to process this considering the massive impact his work has had on me since childhood. My heart goes out to his family and loved ones.
We've lost another hero. :(
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIIeqtJXoAAJKZc?format=jpg&name=medium)
Damn, I saw this earlier this morning when I was at work. I still remember seeing DBZ before it got on Cartoon Network. Before the kids block with the 90's X-Men, Spider-Man, etc on Saturdays, I remember waking up at 6am to catch DBZ on Fox. Hell, I still remember when it came on WB20 on Sundays (Rock the Dragon and Ocean Dub btw). DBZ was definitely my teenage years though.
I may be harsh on it now but it will forever be apart of me along with Chrono Trigger. RIP Akira Toriyama.
After processing it some more, yeah, this news hits hard. It's not just that Dragon Ball was a huge part of most of our childhoods, but in many cases I'd wager almost all of us have really strong positive memories attached to it as well (for me it was watching it on weekday afternoons on Toonami with my older brother), which sticks with you regardless of how much your personal taste in stories may change over time. For my purposes I have always held a love for Toriyama's work, flaws and all, and his unique personality and comedic sensibilities were so intrinsically linked to his work, which makes his passing feel like that much more of an emotional gut punch to me.
Anyways, all I can really say is thank you so much for all of the childhood memories, Toriyama, and rest in peace.
Watched a few of the old DBZ movies lately. Looking at them now, there's something I really don't get. Because DBZ has plenty of years-long timeskips they could take advantage of (between the Cell and Buu sagas, between the Piccolo Jr and Raditz sagas, that 3 years of training before Gero showed up) where they can easily fill in space, but instead of that, they make all these movies that contradict the show in one way or another. And I know what I'm complaining about isn't specific to DBZ, or even to shonen shows, The fucking Thick of It does this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Loop), but it heightens how throwaway a lot of these were even though I liked a bunch of them as a kid. And it's not like any of them had a cool enough story to make it worth throwing out continuity.