Because yes, it requires it's own thread.
Here's the first set. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/05/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_06.html)
Comments?
Baccano!? Excel Saga? Ewwwwww...
Anime and cartoons less than a decade old? Bullocks to this list. Bullocks, I say! This list seems mostly biased towards action cartoons, which (Batman: TAS aside) never really seem to have much of an impact outside of animation circles.
Gave it it's own little section and everything! (http://animrevelation.elementfx.com/features.html) Ain't I great?
Avengers? Anime on a cartoon list? What a terrible article
Here's the next set for you guys. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/06/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons.html)
Hey, this list is pretty good so far! Good job on not making a shitty list, AR!
Full Metal Panic over Robotech? Courage over Scooby Doo? This is a fucking outrage!!!!
Witch? Are you guys even trying?
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 28, 2011, 06:33:08 PM
Witch? Are you guys even trying?
I know it's not high enough, but what can you do?
Yeah, sometimes we have to give some of the best lower rankings than we should due to everything we have planned. It'll make sense in due time, I swear.
Quote from: Desensitized on June 28, 2011, 06:39:46 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 28, 2011, 06:33:08 PM
Witch? Are you guys even trying?
I know it's not high enough, but what can you do?
Well whoever decided to put in Witch was certainly high enough
Well, keep reading, you might be surprised to see what makes it higher up the list!
Quote from: Foggle on June 28, 2011, 06:50:50 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 28, 2011, 06:44:07 PM
Quote from: Desensitized on June 28, 2011, 06:39:46 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 28, 2011, 06:33:08 PM
Witch? Are you guys even trying?
I know it's not high enough, but what can you do?
Well whoever decided to put in Witch was certainly high enough
:lol:
I am glad you like that one.
And yeah, I am looking forward to the rest of the list so I haven't labeled this as suck just yet
Just out of curiosity GSF, what would your top 10 (or top 5) look like? If you don't mind me asking.
Quote from: Desensitized on June 28, 2011, 07:06:10 PM
Just out of curiosity GSF, what would your top 10 (or top 5) look like? If you don't mind me asking.
1. Apocalypse Zero
2. Genocyber
3. Umineko no Naku Koro ni
4. My Life Me
5. Problem Solverz
6. All Grown Up
7. Captain Planet
8. Alvin & The Chipmunks
9. Ninja Scroll: The Series
10. Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha
I stole this from his hard drive when he wasn't looking. It's legit.
Oh damn, that looks familiar... :humhumhum:
I'm calling it, King of the Hill will rank somewhere high, I'd say about 10 or so!
Foggle, I don't want to know half of those anime
Avaitor, stay ze hell away from my harddrive.
My list in no order:
Samurai Jack
Dexter's Laboratory
Star Wars Clone Wars 2003
King Of The Hill
X-Men
Batman TAS
Futurama
The Simpsons
Ed, Edd 'n Eddy
Justice League
Me obviously an action and GT freak.
Good choices. :)
Do you consider anime to be a separate thing, though?
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 28, 2011, 07:38:15 PM
Foggle, I don't want to know half of those anime
Half of that list wasn't even anime. ;)
Good choices, btw.
Quote from: Daxdiv on June 28, 2011, 07:19:44 PM
I'm calling it, King of the Hill will rank somewhere high, I'd say about 10 or so!
Well, we tried to be objective about it (which is why Jake Long wasn't in the top 50), so really, anything is game!
Quote from: Avaitor on June 28, 2011, 07:39:44 PM
Good choices. :)
Do you consider anime to be a separate thing, though?
Thank you, darklord.
Oh, I do. I forgot to retype that it would take me forever to combine the two because my phone ate the post. I might make a hybrid list..then run to Walmart to buy all the series
Quote from: Foggle on June 28, 2011, 07:44:01 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 28, 2011, 07:38:15 PM
Foggle, I don't want to know half of those anime
Half of that list wasn't even anime. ;)
Good choices, btw.
Yeah but half the anime sounded like it would be shit
Quote from: Desensitized on June 28, 2011, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: Daxdiv on June 28, 2011, 07:19:44 PM
I'm calling it, King of the Hill will rank somewhere high, I'd say about 10 or so!
Well, we tried to be objective about it (which is why Jake Long wasn't in the top 50), so really, anything is game!
To be fair, I don't even think that AD is top 50 material. I wasn't a big fan of the first season, but I liked season 2 more. Which was one of the reasons I made a corner image for it on toonzone. I really like the art style and the different tone the show took in season two than one. Season one's art style felt too generic for me, along with the story structure.
With that said, can't wait to see what else is on this list.
Jake Long? Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
I know the review wasn't overly positive or anything, but still; kinda sounds like I'm the only one here who doesn't like it. Eh, different strokes (https://animationrevelation.com/DifferentStrokes.jpg) for different folks I guess. I agree on the art style though; it does look nice, I'll give it that. But damn, this show was as bloody boring as they came IMO, and the writing could get downright painful at times.
Otherwise, good list so far. It warms my heart to see some love for Cow and Chicken; truly an underrated fixture of CN's early years. The writing was top notch, and villains just don't come any more entertaining than The Red Guy. I mean, the guy uses pantyhose as coffee filters. A+ for creativity, to be sure.
Yeah, I kinda pushed for Cow & Chicken on here. It doesn't really do anything special, but everything it does is top notch and I think a show like that deserves a mention.
As for Jake Long, well I personally like the second season and thought it was enjoyable, but the first season hurts it a lot on the list.
Also, this started as a top 50, and we kind of expanded it when we had shows overflowing our selections so we settled on 65. I think the first 15 might be a bit hit or miss with some people, but there are no outright bad choices.
Quote from: Kiddington on June 28, 2011, 09:14:43 PM
Jake Long? Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
I know the review wasn't overly positive or anything, but still; kinda sounds like I'm the only one here who doesn't like it.
Can't say I've ever really enjoyed it, myself. Or W.I.T.C.H. But it's not my list, and the other people involved with making it know a lot more about cartoons than I do.
I'm sure there were a lot of debates on how to rank certain shows on this list. I mean, it's a given since I would assume that giving them random numbers without reason would be the dumbest thing ever. I'm confident that the fine crew here fought tooth and nail for their series to make the list and what ranking they deserve.
We all have our preferences and our random biases which account for how we ranked each show on here. Some were tweaked around with at the very last minute, but trust me, we all put a lot of thought into this list, and every series is here for a reason.
How long has this been in the making again, Avaitor? We've been doing this for a long ass time, I'm sure.
We didn't really take any position lightly and had every show that made the list have a dedicated reason for ranking with the best of the best, so this is probably the best list of this type you'll see out there for sure. It's definitely the first one that tries to disregard nostalgia (though not completely) for pure quality.
Top 30 will blow your fuckin' mind.
EDIT: 40, actually.
EDIT 2: Never mind, the whole thing is great.
Quote from: Desensitized on June 28, 2011, 09:39:54 PM
How long has this been in the making again, Avaitor? We've been doing this for a long ass time, I'm sure.
At least a year. Other problems on the board and in real life have caused us to hold off on working on this list for a while, but I've still been tinkering throughout, and we went into heavy duty time during the past few months.
Trust me guys, there's something for everyone on here. Surprises, shocks, the whole shebang. I couldn't be more proud of how it turned out.
Oh, hey, I have no problems with the rankings, and my apologies if I made it sound as if I did. I don't really like ADJL, and wouldn't put it on my top 65... but this isn't my list. That's your prerogative, and as I said, I fully understand differing opinions (IE, different strokes (https://animationrevelation.com/DifferentStrokes.jpg) for different folks, or something to that effect).
...and really, that was the only choice I even disagreed with anyway. Everything else on this list is either a show that I like, or something that I've never seen before. So... no problems, k? :thumbup:
Quote from: Kiddington on June 28, 2011, 09:47:50 PM
Oh, hey, I have no problems with the rankings, and my apologies if I made it sound as if I did. I don't really like ADJL, and wouldn't put it on my top 65... but this isn't my list. That's your prerogative, and as I said, I fully understand differing opinions (IE, different strokes (https://animationrevelation.com/DifferentStrokes.jpg) for different folks, or something to that effect).
...and really, that was the only choice I even disagreed with anyway. Everything else on this list is either a show that I like, or something that I've never seen before. So... no problems, k? :thumbup:
No problem, we just wanted this to come across as kind of as a group culmination. Like, Foggle might not put WITCH on his list, and I might not put Avengers (as an example, I haven't seen enough on my own) on mine, but as a whole we had to kind of concede our individual tastes for a more objective look.
Some of us wanted things much higher, others wanted things much lower, but all in all, this list is pure Animation Revelation. Putting aside the bullshit to get to the nitty gritty.
For the record, I think you'll agree with A LOT of this list. It's the best one for animation that's ever been made. :shakeshakeshake:
It's cool, man. There's got to be some disagreement in the rankings on every part, otherwise this list would turn out a little boring. I thought a couple of series were ranked too low while some were too high myself. I can also think of one particular series in the top 30 that Desen thought was ranked a little too high. And there are two series right next to each other higher on here that caused some controversy on where each would make it, and I think there's still some disagreement in the final result.
I knew that ADJL would be a controversial choice, and I don't blame you for thinking so. But again, I recommended it as a series that had potential to be great and had a few moments achieving that, but not enough to make it to the all-time top. I wouldn't put it in the top 50 at all, despite my attachment to it, but think it has a fair ranking on here.
There are some choices on this list that no one would make but us. And they deserved to be made. I am particularly happy with three particular ones. :joy:
If FMP: TSR isn't one of those choices, then I'm going to shoot you in the face. :thinkin:
I can say for certain that Hunter X Hunter is certainly not a series that you would typically see on any top list. For one thing, its an anime making it a much less popular choice for an animation list. Secondly, its a more obscure anime compared to the few that do manage to make it onto lists such as these, but I feel its justified in its spot because in all of my experience with animation of any kind, I find a quality series to be a quality series, and HXH is full of quality. And to back up my claims, while it doesn't have a strong following, both its own small fan-base and those with a more critical eye to these types of series have praised it for how well-crafted the characters and overall series is. I doubt 90% of the people who read our list would have ever even heard of it, but as far as I'm concerned its justified on the list in terms of quality level alone, and this is just one example I have chosen to use of this type of show being on our list. The same will hold even more true from a few future entries on our list.
I wonder if the reason our reception isn't as big as GCR's is because of how off some of their choices were. To the point where I can't help but ponder if putting PPG on dead last while placing Super Mario Bros Super Show and Captain N on the list at all were gambits to stir up enough of a response as possible.
Actually, the site hasn't been very active in general since this switchover. Our thread in the general section seems to be the only one getting any activity at all.
I would like to see Sketch, HG, and a few others to stir up some talk there, though.
Next one's up. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/06/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_29.html)
Tomorrow the top 50 starts. You dig it?
This just keeps getting better! :joy:
Glad Megas made the list. I still need to watch Real Ghostbusters. Not really a fan of X-Men Evolution but after the high school bs it got pretty good. I wish a show could actually get high school superheroes right. I ignored PA when it used to come on and I wasn't a fan of Angry Beavers because it made no sense when I was a kid. I'll check it out since from what I remember it's similar to Regular Show - that is if Nick even has it on DVD.
All of Angry Beavers is on Netflix, and if you don't have that, the first two seasons will be out on DVD in August. So you should totally have a chance to check it out again soon.
I'm pleased we seem to be getting positive reception so far to the list.
Also, I agree about Evolution. The first season is not all that special, but it eventually snowballs into a great superhero show. If it had been as good as it was by the end for its entire run, I think it would have been a lot higher up.
Quote from: Avaitor on June 29, 2011, 12:49:43 PM
All of Angry Beavers is on Netflix, and if you don't have that, the first two seasons will be out on DVD in August. So you should totally have a chance to check it out again soon.
Alrighty then. Thanks buddy
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 28, 2011, 07:38:15 PM
My list in no order:
Samurai Jack
Dexter's Laboratory
Star Wars Clone Wars 2003
King Of The Hill
X-Men
Batman TAS
Futurama
The Simpsons
Ed, Edd 'n Eddy
Justice League
Me obviously an action and GT freak.
You know what I just realized in here? There's no Titan. I'm kind of surprised, considering how much you like it. Too recent/short of a run?
Good good good. Very happy to see that Angry Beavers made the list, even if it couldn't quite crack the Top 50. This is only reminding me of how excited I am for the impending DVD release in a few months; it's been far too long. I really can't believe it's been close to 4-5 years since the Nicktoons channel even aired it last. This is way too good of a series to be thrown into a dark hole like it has, and I'm glad to see it starting to get some recognition again.
...and speaking of DVD releases, why the hell am I still waiting on Megas? I know it's on iTunes, but man... digital downloads just aren't the same for me. I need those hard copies of a series to be completely satisfied, and this is just one of so many that's so long overdue. It's just a great show, too; as much as I loved Titan, Megas was the definitive fighting-robot series for me on CN. So many great callbacks to 80's flair, and it's just a lot of fun overall.
Quote from: Avaitor on June 29, 2011, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 28, 2011, 07:38:15 PM
My list in no order:
Samurai Jack
Dexter's Laboratory
Star Wars Clone Wars 2003
King Of The Hill
X-Men
Batman TAS
Futurama
The Simpsons
Ed, Edd 'n Eddy
Justice League
Me obviously an action and GT freak.
You know what I just realized in here? There's no Titan. I'm kind of surprised, considering how much you like it. Too recent/short of a run?
I was actually considering Sym-Bionic Titan. I am a huge fan of the show and liked breaking down every episode after watching it. Short run is actually at the bottom of my list of negatives about the show. It was the fact that too many episodes were filler or filler esque. SBT is another show that failed to do high school drama right. NOWHERE near as bad as X-Men Evolution did but they would have been better off focusing on the Galaluna conflict, character development outside of anything school related or just plain fighting more monsters. The characters wasted too much time hanging out at school. Another season could have made me raise my opinion of the show. I liked how things were developing in the last few episodes.
Once I think about it, I barely like Justice League more than Titan so the show actually just missed the mark. Nothing wrong with having more GT on a list :sly:
Quote from: Desensitized on June 29, 2011, 01:48:00 PM
I'm pleased we seem to be getting positive reception so far to the list.
Also, I agree about Evolution. The first season is not all that special, but it eventually snowballs into a great superhero show. If it had been as good as it was by the end for its entire run, I think it would have been a lot higher up.
Quote from: Kiddington on June 29, 2011, 04:29:38 PM
Good good good. Very happy to see that Angry Beavers made the list, even if it couldn't quite crack the Top 50. This is only reminding me of how excited I am for the impending DVD release in a few months; it's been far too long. I really can't believe it's been close to 4-5 years since the Nicktoons channel even aired it last. This is way too good of a series to be thrown into a dark hole like it has, and I'm glad to see it starting to get some recognition again.
...and speaking of DVD releases, why the hell am I still waiting on Megas? I know it's on iTunes, but man... digital downloads just aren't the same for me. I need those hard copies of a series to be completely satisfied, and this is just one of so many that's so long overdue. It's just a great show, too; as much as I loved Titan, Megas was the definitive fighting-robot series for me on CN. So many great callbacks to 80's flair, and it's just a lot of fun overall.
In the original rankings Angry Beavers actually did crack the top 50, it was just barely pushed out when the dust settled. And I agree, I love the show and think it deserves more attention.
As for Megas XLR, CN just seems to want to forget that show existed in general. It's a shame.
Personally, I'm completely OK with including anime in a list of the best cartoons. After all, they're the same medium. Same goes for manga and comics. As for the list itself, should I feel culturally deprived about the fact that I've only seen five of the shows mentioned so far?
Top 50 starts today. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/05/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_16.html)
You diggy?
TMNT 2003 over the original? Fucking preposterous.
Quote from: Foggle on June 30, 2011, 12:56:24 PM
TMNT 2003 over the original? Fucking preposterous.
This better be a joke. I used to watch the hell out of tmnt 03 but it seriously lacked charisma and lets be serious, it wasn't any less cheesy than many of the old cartoons. I actually remember none of the old series, mostly I am just saying that this show just isn't that good. I got to admit that Agent Bishop rocked though.
PS I had no freaking clue Peter Laird worked on the series.
I enjoyed it a lot, but I do admit it isn't perfect. Fast Forward for instance dragged the ranking on this way down for screwing with the main show and never letting it recover. But all the stuff up to it is pretty fun stuff.
And Turtles Forever is the best TMNT thing ever.
Quote from: Desensitized on June 30, 2011, 05:20:15 PM
And Turtles Forever is the best TMNT thing ever.
I still haven't seen much of the show, but this is definitely true.
Are you guys actually taking my obvious trolling seriously? I'm making fun of people who say shit like that... :whuh:
You, I can tell when you're joking or not. Gunsword gets me sometimes though.
Quote from: Desensitized on June 30, 2011, 05:20:15 PM
I enjoyed it a lot, but I do admit it isn't perfect. Fast Forward for instance dragged the ranking on this way down for screwing with the main show and never letting it recover. But all the stuff up to it is pretty fun stuff.
And Turtles Forever is the best TMNT thing ever.
Those are too separate shows.
I want to see the unedited version of Turtles Forever. And The Simpsons Movie. And the Batman Beyond Movie
I was talking about GSF, not Foggle.
I would consider it the same show, as it was the same staff, time slot, and merchandising, and basic characters. It just wasn't very good.
Quote from: Avaitor on June 30, 2011, 06:25:53 PM
You, I can tell when you're joking or not. Gunsword gets me sometimes though.
*high five*
And yeah I can tell that Fog was joking
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 29, 2011, 04:40:28 PM
Quote from: Desensitized on June 29, 2011, 01:48:00 PM
I'm pleased we seem to be getting positive reception so far to the list.
Also, I agree about Evolution. The first season is not all that special, but it eventually snowballs into a great superhero show. If it had been as good as it was by the end for its entire run, I think it would have been a lot higher up.
Dammit, I said yeah the beginning of the show sucks and could have been ranked among my favorites without the high school bs start. If the show was as good as the later episodes throughout, I would have liked it about as much as Justice League Unlimited but in reality, I just like it slightly more than Teen Titans and less than Static Shock
TRIPLE POST! I've been thinking, I forgot about Avatar which I like more than Titan and I just might like it more than Justice League.
Also here's a list of cartoons that I hope make the list and what probability I think they have of making it:
Guaranteed:
Batman
The Simpsons
King Of The Hill
Futurama
Ed, Edd 'n Eddy
Dexter's Laboratory
Monster
Gargoyles
Cowboy Bebop
Yu yu Hakusho
Likely:
Avatar
Samurai Jack
Lupin The Third
Rurouni Kenshin
Batman Beyond
Tales Spin
Duck Tales
Darkwing Duck
Trigun
No chance:
X-Men
Star Wars Clones Wars 2003
Sym-Bionic Titan
Samurai Champloo
Fist of the Northstar
Legion Of Superheroes
And heh I found the first post where ensatsuken found out that I was a Yu yu Hakusho fan. Good times. I found that because I have to google to find lists of my favorite anime because I never remember them all :D
None of those made the list. The rest is all 80's nostalgia stuff. GI Joe is number 1.
:D
Foggle ruins it for everyone. *sigh*
START OVER.
This time, Transformers will be #1.
:wth:
Eh, it's too late. For now, here's the next set. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/07/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons.html)
That GTO section was the best thing EK has ever written. I couldn't tell he wrote it because everything else he has written might as well have his damn name stamped all over it. :sly: Seriously, good stuff. I'll check out the show.
I never understood Freakazoid. It was just a WTH cartoon when I was a kid.
Johnny Bravo did get neglected by me when I was a kid. Ed, Dexter and PPG had my attention at the time. I wish y'all went into when the show supposedly went downhill and talked about the supporting cast
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 01, 2011, 07:00:39 PM
Johnny Bravo did get neglected by me when I was a kid. Ed, Dexter and PPG had my attention at the time. I wish y'all went into when the show supposedly went downhill and talked about the supporting cast
Hmm, that's a very debatable question, but there were three different eras from the show.
The first season was pretty similar to Dexter and Powerpuff during the peaks of their runs. Pop culture savvy, particularly on the vintage side, clever dialogue, and sharp designs. A couple of differences it had from the other series was the occasional addition of talking animal side characters of varying intellect, as well as prominent guest stars all over the spectrum, from Adam West to the cast of Scooby-Doo.
Even though it was quite similar to some of their other popular shows, JB wasn't a big hit when it premiered, and creator Van Partible either left or was fired from the show (I forget which). The next part of the show retooled the show a little, messing with the designs, focusing more on situational humor than pop culture (although there's still some stuff to that effect, like a Some Like It Hot spoof and a memorable guest appearance with Luke Perry), and adding new characters Carl and Pops. I think this ran for two seasons, but 39 eps were made from this era altogether.
Even though the show became more popular after these changes, it supposed to end with 52 eps. I guess good ratings from the Christmas and Valentines Day specials made after the last few episodes encouraged CN to renew it. This time, they brought back Partible and he took Craig Bartlett, the creator of Hey Arnold, in as story editor.
The last season was kind of a return to the first season, cutting Carl and Pops down to passing references as opposed to supporting characters, but instead of 3 7-minute cartoons like the earlier episodes, had either 2 11-minute segments or one half-hour episode. It kept the designs from the previous era and brought in a lot of guest stars, including Alec Baldwin and Don Knotts, among others.
I honestly liked the whole of the show, but I did rewatch the first episode from the last season on Boomerang a while ago when I went to Atlanta. The one where Johnny went to Hollywood thinking he had a potential career in acting. It was a lot cornier than I remembered, and the guest spots were pointless. But still, if you like the other Cartoon Cartoons, I'd suggest checking out some of JB again.
As for supporting characters, you had Bunny Bravo, Johnny's loving Mama. She's a bit flaky sometimes, but she has a heart of gold and a lot more patience for Johnny than any other sane person would. Then there's little Suzy, Johnny's best friend and neighbor. Another person with a lot more patience for Johnny than most people should have, but I think she likes messing around with him and appreciates their friendship, since he thinks like a kid. Johnny thinks she's a nuisance, though.
Carl is a nerd that frequently messes with science projects and other stuff like that. He thinks Johnny is his best friend, but he can't stand him most of the time. They have solid chemistry with each other however, which is why Carl keeps on coming back. And Pops is the owner of the diner that Johnny and Carl go to a lot. He's occasionally their friend, but mostly a greedy old guy that likes to abuse people for money. Considering all the stuff that Johnny gets into, Pops has a field day with using the oaf for his gain.
And yeah, GSF, I think you'd love GTO if you checked it out. It shares the type of humor that you should appreciate.
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 01, 2011, 07:00:39 PM
I never understood Freakazoid. It was just a WTH cartoon when I was a kid.
I'd suggest watching it now. It's a show that you can definitely appreciate more when you're older.
The complete run is on DVD, if you're interested. Both seasons go for about $10-20 on Amazon, or if you're lucky, you can find 'em brick and mortar in Best Buy.
...as for the list, great stuff guys. Never seen GTO, but the other four are some of my favorite animated series of all-time. Glad to see them all crack the Top 50.
GTO is a genuinely funny show with some touching moments. I think it does that whole "teacher deals with trouble students and teaches them how to live" cliche WAY better than anything else because it doesn't get overly dramatic (yet can be serious) and isn't afraid to put in some really funny gags where it deems necessary.
Only problem is the availability on DVD is so poor, it's almost impossible to watch legally.
Quote from: Avaitor on July 01, 2011, 07:54:23 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 01, 2011, 07:00:39 PM
Johnny Bravo did get neglected by me when I was a kid. Ed, Dexter and PPG had my attention at the time. I wish y'all went into when the show supposedly went downhill and talked about the supporting cast
Hmm, that's a very debatable question, but there were three different eras from the show.
The first season was pretty similar to Dexter and Powerpuff during the peaks of their runs. Pop culture savvy, particularly on the vintage side, clever dialogue, and sharp designs. A couple of differences it had from the other series was the occasional addition of talking animal side characters of varying intellect, as well as prominent guest stars all over the spectrum, from Adam West to the cast of Scooby-Doo.
Even though it was quite similar to some of their other popular shows, JB wasn't a big hit when it premiered, and creator Van Partible either left or was fired from the show (I forget which). The next part of the show retooled the show a little, messing with the designs, focusing more on situational humor than pop culture (although there's still some stuff to that effect, like a Some Like It Hot spoof and a memorable guest appearance with Luke Perry), and adding new characters Carl and Pops. I think this ran for two seasons, but 39 eps were made from this era altogether.
Even though the show became more popular after these changes, it supposed to end with 52 eps. I guess good ratings from the Christmas and Valentines Day specials made after the last few episodes encouraged CN to renew it. This time, they brought back Partible and he took Craig Bartlett, the creator of Hey Arnold, in as story editor.
The last season was kind of a return to the first season, cutting Carl and Pops down to passing references as opposed to supporting characters, but instead of 3 7-minute cartoons like the earlier episodes, had either 2 11-minute segments or one half-hour episode. It kept the designs from the previous era and brought in a lot of guest stars, including Alec Baldwin and Don Knotts, among others.
I honestly liked the whole of the show, but I did rewatch the first episode from the last season on Boomerang a while ago when I went to Atlanta. The one where Johnny went to Hollywood thinking he had a potential career in acting. It was a lot cornier than I remembered, and the guest spots were pointless. But still, if you like the other Cartoon Cartoons, I'd suggest checking out some of JB again.
As for supporting characters, you had Bunny Bravo, Johnny's loving Mama. She's a bit flaky sometimes, but she has a heart of gold and a lot more patience for Johnny than any other sane person would. Then there's little Suzy, Johnny's best friend and neighbor. Another person with a lot more patience for Johnny than most people should have, but I think she likes messing around with him and appreciates their friendship, since he thinks like a kid. Johnny thinks she's a nuisance, though.
Carl is a nerd that frequently messes with science projects and other stuff like that. He thinks Johnny is his best friend, but he can't stand him most of the time. They have solid chemistry with each other however, which is why Carl keeps on coming back. And Pops is the owner of the diner that Johnny and Carl go to a lot. He's occasionally their friend, but mostly a greedy old guy that likes to abuse people for money. Considering all the stuff that Johnny gets into, Pops has a field day with using the oaf for his gain.
And yeah, GSF, I think you'd love GTO if you checked it out. It shares the type of humor that you should appreciate.
Thanks for all the details. Looks like I got a lot to learn about Bravo.
How do you know what kind of comedy I like? All I talk about is violence and old cartoons. :sweat:
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 01, 2011, 08:15:23 PM
Thanks for all the details. Looks like I got a lot to learn about Bravo.
Heh, no prob. The first season is available on DVD if you can find it, but good luck with the rest.
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 01, 2011, 08:15:23 PM
How do you know what kind of comedy I like? All I talk about is violence and old cartoons. :sweat:
Call it a hunch. ;)
By hunch you mean you checked the contents of my harddrive. You guys need to stop doing that :srs:
Oh lord at everything being on the internet. I am only going to break my rule for Big O since my library was damn enough not to have 6 or so episodes in the middle of the show but has all the other episodes
Another day, another set. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/07/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_02.html)
I had no clue that Will Friedle was the Blue Beetle.
I am so glad FMA made the list. I wish there was less talk about the Homonculi and more about how cool alchemy is.
And Darkwing Duck is another from my list that made it. I need to finish the series
Overall, while we aren't getting all that much reception, most of it seems to be positive of the comments that we are getting. Its also nice to see that a couple of people even appreciated the fact that we got HXH on there. Its definitely a unique entry in that its only something that you'd find in our list (of course that's mainly my doing, but I think it deserves its place, honestly), and overall now that I'm seeing the posts as they list 5 entries at a time I find it to be shaping up quite nicely and it looks better than before when you see each entry presented in an official sort of manner like that. There's no denying that the list is heavily influenced by our own opinions, but I'm glad that we managed to rule out nostlagia and most of our bias to look at the series in this list with a more objective eye.
I've seen a couple of people say that a series is ranked too low or too high, but I haven't seen anyone outright say that this list sucks yet. In fact, it seems like just about everyone keeping up with it enjoys the list as a whole, which is great.
I especially enjoy how activity has been rising since we started posting this. I don't think the list is entirely meant to thank here, since our "sister site" so to speak, toonzone, has made a couple of questionable choices lately, but I can't help but feel like the list has helped to promote activity on here.
I'm pleased with the reception so far. It may not be getting as many responses as that awful Geek Cast list, but I assume that's because the people reading it don't really have any issues with it.
And for a list like this, that's rare.
Just counted all the threads up, and our blog's thread has more posts than all the talkbacks for the Transformers week entries on tz combined.
That's got to count for something, right?
Quote from: Avaitor on July 02, 2011, 07:38:24 PM
Just counted all the threads up, and our blog's thread has more posts than all the talkbacks for the Transformers week entries on tz combined.
That's got to count for something, right?
I'd say so. Considering we also have non-AR members talking about the list, while I rarely even noticed the TF blog posts.
Also, great round this time. Would pretty much say the same thing I did on toonzone about this selection in that it's pretty well done.
I just wanted to let you guys know that you've been doing a pretty damn good job with this list so far. Some choices aren't necessarily my cup of tea (for example, I was never big on Reboot or Beast Wars) but I can tell this list has had a lot of thought and care put into it. I'm looking forward to see how the rest turns out.
Next set's up. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/07/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_03.html)
And the hits keep on rolling.
LUPIN THE THIRD
DOOT DOO DOO DOO
I really need to get back into watching the Red Jacket series. What I love about the series is that its one of the only long-running Japanese shows that I can think of that is completely episodic, so I never even bother to watch the episodes in order. I just see if the title of the episode interests me and then watch it. Its such a great series that has truly and honestly aged really well over all these decades. To me, Lupin III is an anime classic that is pretty much Japan's equivalent of what we would consider classics here, such as The Flintstones and other memorable Hannah-Barbera cartoons and characters from the time. Lupin himself is such an iconic character and in all honesty anyone who has seen a good portion of Lupin in his glory days would only be sensible to include his series on a list such as this. The best thing of all is that as someone who didn't grow up with this show because I wasn't born in Japan, I can say that this entry is not at all influenced by any bit of nostalgia. ;)
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 03, 2011, 01:12:38 PM
I really need to get back into watching the Red Jacket series. What I love about the series is that its one of the only long-running Japanese shows that I can think of that is completely episodic, so I never even bother to watch the episodes in order. I just see if the title of the episode interests me and then watch it. Its such a great series that has truly and honestly aged really well over all these decades. To me, Lupin III is an anime classic that is pretty much Japan's equivalent of what we would consider classics here, such as The Flintstones and other memorable Hannah-Barbera cartoons and characters from the time. Lupin himself is such an iconic character and in all honesty anyone who has seen a good portion of Lupin in his glory days would only be sensible to include his series on a list such as this. The best thing of all is that as someone who didn't grow up with this show because I wasn't born in Japan, I can say that this entry is not at all influenced by any bit of nostalgia. ;)
Well said. My brother got me into the show when I was about 16. If one thing can make me get to the end of a night of adult swim, it was Lupin
Great set of animated series in this one. I am guessing Dexter is the 2nd highest Cartoon Cartoon on the entire list which is good. I had no clue Spongebob was the narrator on PPG. And I still need to which most episodes of Batman Beyond. Keep up the good work
And here's the next. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/05/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_5393.html)
Wow, we're this far already? Crazy. This is where the really good stuff comes in, too.
Zim made it! I thought it was too overrated for you bitches. And now I have a slight idea about what Higurashi is about
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 04, 2011, 02:04:40 PM
Zim made it! I thought it was too overrated for you bitches.
What? No. I'm the only one on staff who doesn't like it, and I can still see and laugh at the humor in at least half of the episodes.
Ladies and gentlemen, the top 25 (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/07/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_05.html).
This is a pretty good list. :>
WHAT!?! South Park is at #21 and there is NO Family Guy in sight!?! I swear if FG doesn't make it into the top 20....NO, the top 10, then this list is garbage! Family Guy is the greatest animated sitcom of our time! The Simpsons can just go fuck itself!
DUCK TALES! AH WOO OH! One of the shows that made me wish I paid more attention to Disney. I am going to have to get those DVDs.
I actually stopped caring for Animaniacs and Tint Toons when I was a kid
Next entry's up. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/07/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_06.html)
Aww yeah.
Still hate Gundam and oh God @ JLU instead of Justice League.
Yay @ Futurama and Dragonball making it
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 06, 2011, 12:33:44 PM
Still hate Gundam and oh God @ JLU instead of Justice League.
Our JL entry counts for both the original and Unlimited. They're the same series, and we couldn't tear them apart.
Quote from: Avaitor on July 06, 2011, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 06, 2011, 12:33:44 PM
Still hate Gundam and oh God @ JLU instead of Justice League.
Our JL entry counts for both the original and Unlimited. They're the same series, and we couldn't tear them apart.
Yeah, if it didn't encompass both, my rage would be unstoppable.
I enjoy DBZ but that really summed up well what makes Dragon Ball the superior series. This list has been pretty great overall, save for one or two disagreements I've had.
Quote from: Foggle on July 06, 2011, 12:39:08 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on July 06, 2011, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 06, 2011, 12:33:44 PM
Still hate Gundam and oh God @ JLU instead of Justice League.
Our JL entry counts for both the original and Unlimited. They're the same series, and we couldn't tear them apart.
Yeah, if it didn't encompass both, my rage would be unstoppable.
Oh it sounded like JL was being ignored
Speaking individually here, save for the Cadmus arc in JLU I always personally preferred JL and its significantly smaller cast of heroes than JLU which broadened its focus on a bunch of heroes and villains that I honestly had a hard time caring about. That said, I can still respect that series for its great writing and darker plots and story-telling, but overall I think I think JL just suited my personal tastes much better.
Speaking of which, I can't wait until we get to the top 10. There WILL certainly be some controversy there (though I won't spoil what to expect in it), but if anyone has any disagreements on one of them in particular which I sort of expect, I'll gladly take full responsibility for its placement, but once again I'm not saying what it is (if you know me well enough, though, you'll know what it is when you see it).
To be honest, though, viewing this list as a whole is really something else. Even us at AR weren't exactly sure how the final product would end up looking like when we posted it in this manner, and I have to say that I'm really pleased with what we've managed to accomplish. To completely rule out personal opinions and bias in a list like this is downright impossible, but I feel that we've done a really good job of keeping it to the bare minimum so far. I'm also just happy to finally see a list that acknowledges shows that other lists like this ignore for 80's nostalgia, especially when these shows that rank so high really deserve their rankings (even if we had to create the list and rank the shows ourselves to get these sorts of results).
The top ten better be the following:
10) Assy McGee
09) Rocket Power
08) Butch Hartman (not any of his shows in particular, just Butch Hartman himself)
07) The Super Mario Bros. Super Show
06) Captain N
05) My Little Pony (G1)
04) Problem Solverz
03) Donkey Kong Country
02) Drawn Together
01) Bad Dog
In all seriousness, I expect to see Ed, Edd n Eddy, Cowboy Bebop, The Simpsons, Rocko's Modern Life, Looney Tunes, Batman: The Animated Series, and maybe FLCL in the coming entries.
Oh shit! Who the hell leaked out our top 10 entries? There's no way I'm going to believe that Eddy is just that fucking great of a guesser. :oo:
Quote from: Eddy on July 06, 2011, 02:10:50 PM
The top ten better be the following:
10) Assy McGee
09) Rocket Power
08) Butch Hartman (not any of his shows in particular, just Butch Hartman himself)
07) The Super Mario Bros. Super Show
06) Captain N
05) My Little Pony (G1)
04) Problem Solverz
03) Donkey Kong Country
02) Drawn Together
01) Bad Dog
You know, that would actually be fucking hilarious if we pulled that shit out of nowhere and trolled everyone, especially after all the praise our list has gotten.
I loved the Donkey Kong show, but it was absolutely horrifically awful in every conceivable way. Even still, I loved it.
What the hell is Bad Dog? *looks it up* FUCK, I remember this shit. It was terribad.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 06, 2011, 02:04:18 PM
Speaking individually here, save for the Cadmus arc in JLU I always personally preferred JL and its significantly smaller cast of heroes than JLU which broadened its focus on a bunch of heroes and villains that I honestly had a hard time caring about. That said, I can still respect that series for its great writing and darker plots and story-telling, but overall I think I think JL just suited my personal tastes much better.
Speaking of which, I can't wait until we get to the top 10. There WILL certainly be some controversy there (though I won't spoil what to expect in it), but if anyone has any disagreements on one of them in particular which I sort of expect, I'll gladly take full responsibility for its placement, but once again I'm not saying what it is (if you know me well enough, though, you'll know what it is when you see it).
To be honest, though, viewing this list as a whole is really something else. Even us at AR weren't exactly sure how the final product would end up looking like when we posted it in this manner, and I have to say that I'm really pleased with what we've managed to accomplish. To completely rule out personal opinions and bias in a list like this is downright impossible, but I feel that we've done a really good job of keeping it to the bare minimum so far. I'm also just happy to finally see a list that acknowledges shows that other lists like this ignore for 80's nostalgia, especially when these shows that rank so high really deserve their rankings (even if we had to create the list and rank the shows ourselves to get these sorts of results).
I already know what show you're talking about and I hate you. I'll still get around to watching it but yeah I hate you
Quote from: Eddy on July 06, 2011, 02:10:50 PM
The top ten better be the following:
10) Assy McGee
09) Rocket Power
08) Butch Hartman (not any of his shows in particular, just Butch Hartman himself)
07) The Super Mario Bros. Super Show
06) Captain N
05) My Little Pony (G1)
04) Problem Solverz
03) Donkey Kong Country
02) Drawn Together
01) Bad Dog
In all seriousness, I expect to see Ed, Edd n Eddy, Cowboy Bebop, The Simpsons, Rocko's Modern Life, Looney Tunes, Batman: The Animated Series, and maybe FLCL in the coming entries.
Since one of the mods is a jackass that hates FLCL it won't make it. Also Avaitor probably forced Looney Tunes out of the criteria AGAIN.
I think the top 10 will either be:
EK biased pick OR EK and another member's beloved show
Gargoyles
Ed, Edd, 'n Eddy
Cowboy Bebop
Batman
Monster
The Simpsons
Yu yu Hakusho
King Of The Hill
Rurouni Kenshin
A predictable bunch, y'all are.
If Billy and Mandy makes the list, I am punching Desen in the face. EK's pick is FAR more acceptable than complete shit
Today's entry says that one of these didn't make it in the top 10. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/05/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons.html)
Evangelion is shit and you should be ashamed of putting The Flintstones on here when the live action movie is clearly superior. :sly:
Quote from: Foggle on July 07, 2011, 11:21:31 AM
Evangelion is shit and you should be ashamed of putting The Flintstones on here when the live action movie is clearly superior. :sly:
The first 3 words are fact.
Nice Tom and Jerry breakdown and I should have known Rocko would make it
USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST
Oh, GSF.
Anyway, the list is getting interesting, and I think our top 10 should really surprise and/or delight some people!
I still expect King of the Hill and Yu Yu Hakusho to make it into the Top 10, and with every listing that seems to be a reality. I will not be surprised if both of them appeared in tomorrow's listing.
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 07, 2011, 11:47:46 AM
Quote from: Foggle on July 07, 2011, 11:21:31 AM
Evangelion is shit and you should be ashamed of putting The Flintstones on here when the live action movie is clearly superior. :sly:
The first 3 words are fact.
Nice Tom and Jerry breakdown and I should have known Rocko would make it
USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST
:sweat: Scared me for a second then I remember that Foggle has no power here. He's just the site's mascot.
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 07, 2011, 02:08:46 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 07, 2011, 11:47:46 AM
Quote from: Foggle on July 07, 2011, 11:21:31 AM
Evangelion is shit and you should be ashamed of putting The Flintstones on here when the live action movie is clearly superior. :sly:
The first 3 words are fact.
Nice Tom and Jerry breakdown and I should have known Rocko would make it
USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST
:sweat: Scared me for a second then I remember that Foggle has no power here. He's just the site's mascot.
:lol: :lol:
Reminds me, the T-Shirts with Foggle doing the AR cheer are coming out soon.
Preorder now! :thumbup:
Quote from: Daxdiv on July 07, 2011, 01:40:25 PM
I still expect King of the Hill and Yu Yu Hakusho to make it into the Top 10, and with every listing that seems to be a reality. I will not be surprised if both of them appeared in tomorrow's listing.
That's like predicting the sun rising. The staff here talks about the same shit over and over. KOTH and YYH have a 200% chance of making it. In fact, with some of the expected top 10 making it, they're top 5, guaranteed.
Quote from: Avaitor on July 07, 2011, 02:10:50 PM
Reminds me, the T-Shirts with Foggle doing the AR cheer are coming out soon.
Preorder now! :thumbup:
With Foggle getting no cut of the profits. You guys just feed Foggle Klondike bars through his costume and call it a day.
Ladies and gentlemen,
The top 10 starts now. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/07/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_08.html)
Yu Yu Hakusho? Are you fucking kidding me? We have YYH on this list instead of Naruto or Bleach? Honestly, I don't know what the hell you were thinking Avaitor. That's a terrible choice. :anger:
Agreed. On that note, Cowboy Bebop doesn't deserve to come anywhere near a list like this. Where's Transformers G1, you hacks? :wth:
Don't blame me, blame the coin tosses.
It was either that or Kiba.
Don't worry guys, there's still the top five. I'm sure Naruto, CatDog, and all our favorites will show up there.
AND IF INUYASHA ISN'T NUMBER ONE SO HELP ME GOD :srs:
But seriously, going by the Toon Zone reaction, I'm surprised at the amount of people who don't think Ed, Edd n Eddy deserves to be there. I guess it was either a cartoon that people loved or hated.
Anyone who hated it is wrong.
Quote from: Eddy on July 08, 2011, 01:16:50 PM
But seriously, going by the Toon Zone reaction, I'm surprised at the amount of people who don't think Ed, Edd n Eddy deserves to be there. I guess it was either a cartoon that people loved or hated.
Anyone who hated it is wrong.
Agreed. Brilliant show! The movie was equally amazing, if not more so.
The movie was the perfect way to end the series. It's a shame it never had a theatrical release!
It's also a shame that Cartoon Network took over a year to air the movie in the US. I had to resort to getting it through other means because I was sick of waiting for them.
Quote from: Eddy on July 08, 2011, 01:25:12 PM
The movie was the perfect way to end the series. It's a shame it never had a theatrical release!
It really did deserve to be shown in theaters... I know I would have gone. The animation was absolutely fantastic and the writing was some of the best the series had ever seen. The first 30 minutes or so was a freakin' thrill ride.
I always thought that PPG's commercial success was a little overrated and the Eds was overall CN's most popular original series. I thought it would have done pretty well in theaters if they put it out around the time the Best Day Edder marathon aired, which I watched in full, BTW.
It definitely looked good enough to be shown in theaters.
The least they could do is give the movie a proper release on DVD. The series really needs a complete box set too. :(
It also has a sense of humor, brain and atmosphere missing in them too.
Typo! Anyway, lol @ calling the Kankers horny trailer trash. That 10-6 is great and yes EK, Rurouni Kenshin should have been a perfect adaptation :sly:
Quote from: Eddy on July 08, 2011, 01:16:50 PM
Don't worry guys, there's still the top five. I'm sure Naruto, CatDog, and all our favorites will show up there.
AND IF INUYASHA ISN'T NUMBER ONE SO HELP ME GOD :srs:
But seriously, going by the Toon Zone reaction, I'm surprised at the amount of people who don't think Ed, Edd n Eddy deserves to be there. I guess it was either a cartoon that people loved or hated.
Anyone who hated it is wrong.
Anyone who hated it deserves a nice stroll in front of a firing squad
May I present to the world, the top 5. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/07/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_09.html)
What a ride this has been.
Overall, decent list. GCR's was better, though. Still mad about there being no Transformers G1 on here. :srs:
What the fuck? The Simpsons is on this list?
Fuck you AR! You don't even have enough brains to put Family Guy where it belongs and give its rightful spot to a shit show like The Simpsons. That show is for 2 years olds. Family Guy is for people who want some actual mature humor you fucking little kiddies.
And WTF? We have overrated shit like BTAS here and no Teen Titans. All DC shows should embrace quirky anime character designs and features for no reason at all like Teen Titans because anything anime-like is awesome.
Oh, and where the hell is Transformers G1? Fuck this list! You people are stupid. You even ranked a shit show like King of the Hill in the top 5 and left brilliant shows like The Cleveland Show out. You guys all suck.
Rocky and Bullwinkle put me to sleep as a kid. I thought EK would sneak FMP or One Piece in the top 10.
Anyway, I am glad I am not the only one who got into Batman TAS later in life. I got into the show with absolutely no recommendations from anyone. I was hooked.
I am actually surprised KOTH was below The Simpsons. Hill gets crazy love around here. I am glad The Simpsons got in the top 3. The Simpsons is the most immersive show I've ever watched.
I had a feeling Looney Tunes would be no. 1 after reading the Batman section and not being able to come up with anything else. Insert what else can be possibly said about the Looney Tunes here.
The Simpsons best stuff ran almost as long as KOTH did as a whole, so it wasn't that much of a hard decision. However, they are close together on the list for a reason.
FMP was way further up the list dude, I think you missed it.
Quote from: Desensitized on July 09, 2011, 02:54:09 PM
The Simpsons best stuff ran almost as long as KOTH did as a whole, so it wasn't that much of a hard decision. However, they are close together on the list for a reason.
FMP was way further up the list dude, I think you missed it.
Fullmetal Panic?
Well, The Second Raid, but yes. it's already here. (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/06/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons.html)
Oh yeah, the Witch round. Forgot about that on purpose
And to round things up, here is our bonus article (http://arevelationfeechurs.blogspot.com/2011/07/animation-revelations-top-65-cartoons_10.html).
You guys suck. Teen Titans is way better than your shitty Batman shit. Go fuck yourselves, AR! :anger:
I liked Teen Titans. :shit: But I can admit it had a lot of flaws.
I'm actually really happy to NOT see Samurai Jack on this list. I never understood all the praise that series got. Aku was pretty cool but, aside from that, Samurai Jack was the very definition of "all style, no substance" to me.
Thank you! I was beginning to think that I was the only person who didn't get any of the appeal behind Samurai Jack. I don't hate the show or anything, but it was always all style and no substance.
How the fuck did STB have a better chance of making it than Samurai Jack? Jack had tons of personality, whether it came from one episode characters like the Macho Man Randy Savage alien from the Dome of Doom or Aku himself. Yes Jack himself didn't have that much personality but everyone knows that Aku is the real star of the show. He basically struggles more than Jack because Jack stomps his ass into the ground everytime and he's the go to character for comedy.
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 10, 2011, 01:27:33 PM
How the fuck did STB have a better chance of making it than Samurai Jack?
Actually, it didn't, but we wanted to mention SBT as a recent series that is worth watching, but might be too new to make it on.
Jack was considered before, but didn't made it in.
I agree with not putting Samurai Jack on the list. Overrated as shit, and not very good once you look past the show's artsy pretenses. Certainly not Genndy's best.
But shame on you for lumping American Dad with Family Guy :oo: There are very few cartoons to stay consistently funny and clever past 100 episodes, and AD is one of them.
While I can see that Adventure Time is definitely too early to be on the list, I think it should definitely be near the top in similar lists years from now. It's one of the few shows where absolutely everything (voices, music, writing, visuals, concept...) feels original and pitch-perfect.
It's all right, I guess. Nothing really list worthy, but definitely more consistent than Family Guy.
No way Adventure Time deserved to make it. It gets old fast and is shit compared to Regular Show, which is CN's only good new comedy
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 10, 2011, 04:33:14 PM
No way Adventure Time deserved to make it.
100% agreed.
I want to know how Rurouni Kenshin didn't make it.
All staff should be forced to watch Legion Of Superheroes. Easily the best superhero team show outside of JL. It's 100% solid and infinitely better than that Evolution and Avengers shit.
The anime is only good up until the canon ends.
Every anime on this list is more consistent and higher quality on the whole.
The anime is not that good.
Choose your explanation.
Except NGE. That's emo shit
^ I'm sorry, but that is an invalid response. You lose the game, sir
And it's a good thing that I don't play.
Quote from: chdr on July 10, 2011, 07:28:40 PM
^ I'm sorry, but that is an invalid response. You lose the game, sir
Don't make me use pocket sand on you
Quote from: Desensitized on July 10, 2011, 05:46:39 PM
The anime is only good up until the canon ends.
Every anime on this list is more consistent and higher quality on the whole.
The anime is not that good.
If we're talking about Rurouni Kenshin I'm going to have to disagree in terms of the Canon material alone. It handled that just fine and Furahara is a great director. The problem was the filler which was horrible, which is why RK anime on the whole is not that good. Everything up until then was pretty consistent and high quality, though. I've read the Kyoto arc in the manga and watched it in the anime and honestly the anime does a great adaptation of that arc. I agree that it doesn't deserve to be on the list because of the shitty filler, though.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 10, 2011, 08:04:22 PM
Quote from: Desensitized on July 10, 2011, 05:46:39 PM
The anime is only good up until the canon ends.
Every anime on this list is more consistent and higher quality on the whole.
The anime is not that good.
If we're talking about Rurouni Kenshin I'm going to have to disagree in terms of the Canon material alone. It handled that just fine and Furahara is a great director. The problem was the filler which was horrible, which is why RK anime on the whole is not that good. Everything up until then was pretty consistent and high quality, though. I've read the Kyoto arc in the manga and watched it in the anime and honestly the anime does a great adaptation of that arc. I agree that it doesn't deserve to be on the list because of the shitty filler, though.
I disagree. The filler arc should be completely ignored like the later seasons of The Simpsons
No, the filler arc can't be ignored you dumb-fuck because unlike The Simpsons, RK is not an episodic series. In an arc-based series with heavy continuity you can't just ignore the weaker parts because then you could argue that just about every other show is great if you ignored the filler. So, in other words: No, your favorite series isn't excused from having shitty filler so deal with it you little fucking maggot. :anger:
I love it when you guys troll each other. :lol:
If we ignore the filler in RK, then there's no proper ending.
The thing is, if we're going to make excuses to include some shows, why not instead include shows in which we DON'T have to bend to fit into our criteria? Which is what we did.
Which is why it's a great list.
Also, no one is saying the Rurouni Kenshin anime sucks, it just doesn't stack up as a whole. Maybe if we get a new anime...
Quote from: Foggle on July 10, 2011, 08:33:57 PM
I love it when you guys troll each other. :lol:
I wasn't even trolling him. He just decided to go full retard all on his own
Well for RK even if you ignore the third season, there's still the first season of semi-episodics.
It's too bad Scooby didn't make the list, but yeah, too many post1970s versions that water down the product. I'd watch reruns of that over Rocky and Bullwinkle anytime in those wee hours of Cartoon Network.
I like select Scooby material, but as a whole there is a lot of garbage in there. As a whole it just doesn't stack well against anything else.
I got sick of Scooby as a child.
Eh, Scooby may have been ahead of the pack during the 70's, but that was just a really bad time for animation in general. It was still mediocre then, and even the original series barely holds up today.
I just don't Scooby in any form belonged on here at all.
I pretty much dislike any iteration of Scooby Doo, with exception of A Pup Named(and I guess the newest one, although to be fair I'm only saying that because I've never seen it). I can recognize some of the merits in the original and New Scooby Doo Movies, and Zombie Island is alright, but other than that, I don't care for the franchise, even the fan-favorite Thirteen Ghosts.
I kind of lost interest in A Pup Named Scooby.
Zombie Island is probably one of my top 10 favorite cartoon movies. Just flat out perfection. I liked what I saw of Thirteen Ghosts and I liked that Shaggy werewolf racing movie. It's obvious what I want Scooby to be
One of my big problems with Scooby is that it's just an incredibly dated concept as a whole. Really, it's any wonder that the series is somehow still alive and kicking to this very day.
The other big problem I have is that most of it just isn't very good. I mean, you can't deny its longevity; four decades is an amazingly long life span for a television character, and obviously that does account for something... but really, let's be honest here; a good 75% of those 40+ years is nothing but garbage, IMO. Pup Named was fun, Thirteen Ghosts was alright... but after that? Ehhhhh. The original just barely holds up, pretty much anything with Scrappy minus Thirteen Ghosts is crap, What's New was an eye-poppingly bad reboot, and Mystery Inc., while it does dare to be different, is still very much a flawed series. Throw in numerous DTV's, each of them (minus Zombie Island) more forgettable than the last, along with the obligatory live-action movies that... well, suck, and there just isn't a whole lot of good to throw around when we're talking about this franchise.
...oh yeah, and lest I not forget; those awful, awful Scooby celebrity cameo movies from the early/mid-70's. You know, the ones where they run around and solve crimes with Batman, Don Knotts, the 1973 Harlem Globetrotters, Phyllis Diller... basically they went a whole "Cast of Thousands" route here. And man, where those things baaaaaaaaaad.
So... yeah, you get the point here. Not a Scooby fan; the franchise has undoubtedly had its moments over that four decade run, but nothing that I'd say is truly worth a spot on a "top animated series of all time" list. Again, though; just my opinion.
Even as a kid Scooby-Doo bored me to tears. I just couldn't get into it. I remember getting sick of seeing it air so much on Cartoon Network back in the day.
The cast of thousands thing was a sign of the times, back when it was cool to be cartooned. The Simpsons soon adopted that idea. Heh, the many hours I spent watching Jackson 5 and Harlem Globetrotters cartoons when I didn't know better. :swoon: It didn't quite catch on with House of Mouse, even though they tried.
Woah, hey... I actually liked House of Mouse. :humhumhum:
...but, that's neither here nor there.
House of Mouse had a really cool concept and some fun ideas, but I wasn't impressed with the cartoons they showed at all, and wish that characters from the movies had more of a role in it other than just being guests.
That said, I really liked the episodes with Scrooge and the Three Caballeros. Loved seeing them again.
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 10, 2011, 05:48:18 PM
Except NGE. That's shit
Fixed that a bit but I like the cut of your jib.
I will say anyone who wants to see all animation has to offer should watch Evanelion and judge it for themselves but it's the most overrated "edgy" cartoon out there and I find it far from brilliant. I find it to be an above average monster of the week show with pretty good animation for it's time and great music. I don't like the story and I can't stand the characters and if the point was to make them as unlikable as possible then it succeeded but it only succeeded in making unlikable characters not proving a point with them.
Quote from: Sketch on July 27, 2011, 06:26:46 AM
with pretty good animation for it's time
Evangelion's animation is terrible, and was even considered as such back then. Rebuild and End Of are very well animated, though.
Why didn't Trigun make it?
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 27, 2011, 11:57:30 AM
Why didn't Trigun make it?
It didn't come up, honestly.
It's one of my favorites, if that's good enough!
Quote from: Desensitized on July 27, 2011, 04:03:38 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 27, 2011, 11:57:30 AM
Why didn't Trigun make it?
It didn't come up, honestly.
It's one of my favorites, if that's good enough!
No, that doesn't mean shit. ;D
I'm currently re-reading the list, and it's still pretty good. While I might change some placements now, it's still the best list out there I've seen.
I assumed you guys would revisit this list every 2-3 years or something like that to either add something you might have wanted to add but didn't feel like it would be fair because of how new it was. For example, take Archer. I remember DLA mentioning that he kind of regretted not adding it to the list. After all, I'm not sure how long you guys were making this list so I don't know what factors or dates you had on it.
I don't know if we'll revisit the list that frequently, but I wouldn't be surprised if we make another version of it before the decade's over.
Also, what changes come to mind for you, Spark?
I'd love to see Archer in the top 15, honestly. And maybe GitS SAC on there somewhere.
Yeah, doing a new one every year would be too redundant. I don't think all that much would change year to year.
Quote from: Brak's Dad on May 21, 2012, 04:11:49 PMAlso, what changes come to mind for you, Spark?
I would probably put Monster, Home Movies, and Duckman a few slots lower on the list. But that's mostly in hindsight and nitpicking. I still think every one of them is great.
As for me, here are some changes that I would make:
Despite being a huge fan of YYH to this day, I can't deny that it doesn't have the near universal appeal of the other shows ranked so high on our list, and for that reason I'd move it way lower (I'd still fight to keep it on the list, though, but definitely outside of the top 20). I'd move Gargoyles to at least the number 10 spot, as I believe it belongs in the top 10. The same goes for Ed, Edd, n' Eddy. I know its one of Avaitor's favorites, and it certainly is a great show, but I don't quite think its top 10 material when considering the wider appeal of the other shows on that part of the list.
I'd also opt to move Futurama higher on the list.
Also, in terms of adding shows to the list, after plenty of consideration I'm pretty sure that Digimon Tamers belongs on there. I know I used to be biased toward the show, but it really is something you appreciate more when you're older, and anyone who is skeptical of that choice should watch the show themselves before they say that they aren't convinced.
One thing I'd definitely keep the same about our list is having Dragon Ball stay where it is. I know that can kind of be controversial for some people. Some would say that DBZ should be ranked instead but those people are the nostalgia-obsessed freaks that screw up lists like this. Others like GregX would say its shit and doesn't belong on the list at all (which he did point out), but on that note while I can respect someone completely disliking the show I'll defend it to the grave. I think it belongs right where it is and anyone who wants to argue it can just go make their own list if it bothers them so much.
On the whole, though, I think we did a great job on our list. There isn't much else besides that which I would change. And yes, I'm one of the people who think that Avatar is ranked at a good spot; I don't really agree that it needs to be higher than the spot we gave it.
I might consider putting Futurama, South Park, and Boondocks a bit lower on the list, but that's personal taste. I think the list is fine as it is, it's not like it was ever going to be perfect, but we put a lot of effort into it and I think that shows.
I'm also not seeing why Dragon Ball would need to be moved. GregX doesn't like shonen, so it doesn't really matter what shonen we put there, he's not gonna like it. Besides, it's not like we ranked Z or anything. King Of The Hill is also perfect where it is.
As for what I'd put higher? DuckTales, TB&TB, and The Real Ghostbusters should all be a tad higher.
I'd rank Futurama a little higher, but not in the top 10. I think it'd be redundant if we had both Groening shows in there. Same for JL.
And I'd move Monster a bit lower and find room for Archer. Otherwise, I'm fine with the list myself.
Higurashi should be lower and Excel Saga should be swapped out for Archer.
I don't think Futurama or South Park should be lower. I'd still argue to put SP in the top 20, but since everyone else was so against it we settled for being just outside of it at the #21 spot. I don't really feel that its declined in quality at all, as the episodes are still pretty hit or miss, so I'm fine with the show staying where its at. As for Futurama, the new seasons aren't as strong as the older ones (though they still have good episodes), which is why I wouldn't put it in the top 10 or anything (if it were just the original 4 seasons, though, I'd argue that it belongs there), but even so I think it belongs in the top 15, personally.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 21, 2012, 05:00:35 PM
I don't think Futurama or South Park should be lower. I'd still argue to put SP in the top 20, but since everyone else was so against it we settled for being just outside of it at the #21 spot. I don't really feel that its declined in quality at all, as the episodes are still pretty hit or miss, so I'm fine with the show staying where its at. As for Futurama, the new seasons aren't as strong as the older ones (though they still have good episodes), which is why I wouldn't put it in the top 10 or anything (if it were just the original 4 seasons, though, I'd argue that it belongs there), but even so I think it belongs in the top 15, personally.
I would like to see Futurama in the top 10, personally. I think it's better than The Simpsons quality-wise, even if that one's more influential. I'm cool with South Park being in the top 20, as well (though I'd
really love to see Archer in there).
Oh, and I think Full Metal Panic TSR should be a lot higher on the list. Courage too.
Quote from: Foggle on May 21, 2012, 04:59:36 PM
Higurashi should be lower and Excel Saga should be swapped out for Archer.
As much as I enjoy Higurashi, it is really way too high on the list. I would certainly have it on the list, but it seems abnormally high.
If we did this now I'm certain Ultimate Spider-Man would have been number 1. :swoon:
Yeah, I'd probably swap TSR and GTO on the list in terms of ranking. Actually I think it deserves to be even higher than that, but being that its appeal may be limited, I can't justify it being anywhere in the top 30 on those grounds. Maybe we could let it overtake FMA's spot, instead, so that way it would at least just barely make the top 40, which is still a much better ranking than what it got.
...And I honestly have no opinion one way or the other on how the list should be changed.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 21, 2012, 05:03:36 PM
Quote from: Foggle on May 21, 2012, 04:59:36 PM
Higurashi should be lower and Excel Saga should be swapped out for Archer.
As much as I enjoy Higurashi, it is really way too high on the list. I would certainly have it on the list, but it seems abnormally high.
Indeed. I'd be cool with swapping its position with either Baccano! or FMP TSR, personally.
I ranked Higurashi so high on the list because I thought it was where Foggle would've put it himself, and also due to its sheer originality and cleverness (the first 2 series, at least). I could definitely have ranked it a bit lower.
Honestly, if I'd swap Higurashi with anything, it'd be SSM. Despite the short length, I still think that it's the perfect super hero cartoon.
I could go on about how different I'd do it, but I think as a collaboration effort, it's remarkably consistent outside of a few things we all kind of missed.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on May 21, 2012, 05:05:02 PM
...And I honestly have no opinion one way or the other on how the list should be changed.
Oh, no one thinks it should be changed (and we're not going to change it), just what we would probably do different if we made it now.
Yeah, Higurashi is great, but its not really top 30 material.
Oh yeah, I still need to watch more of Venture Bros., but honestly unless it gets downright terrible after season 2, I think it deserves at least some spot on our list, even if it isn't that high.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 21, 2012, 05:09:21 PM
Oh yeah, I still need to watch more of Venture Bros., but honestly unless it gets downright terrible after season 2, I think it deserves at least some spot on our list, even if it isn't that high.
I think this was because only myself and Avaitor had seen the most of the series, and neither one of us really liked where it went after season 2. If you guys had lobbied for it, we probably would have let it on, if at least really low on the list.
Well, we originally did have it on the list, but I really don't like how it turned out past season 2.
I personally think that Archer has done everything that Venture tried or wanted to do in its run, but was too obsessed with itself to keep up with, and isn't anywhere near as good.
But if we ever do another list, we should probably shake it up and just go whole hog for 100. You know, to really mix it up.
Extending it to have 100 shows would certainly make it easier to add in things that we want but couldn't initially add. It'd also let us move some entries a lot lower while still essentially keeping it on the list. That's certainly a good idea.
Yeah, if we do this again, I'd totally vouch to go for the full 100. I initially decided on 65 since I thought if we went to 100, we'd end up listing lesser shows or nostalgic favorites that don't hold up instead of the best of the best.
But by the time we try this again, I think enough good shows and overlooked gems will be discovered for us to pull out a good, full 100.
It was really stupid that TMNT made the list but Rurouni Kenshin didn't even though TMNT had an awful final season as well. A lack of research was done there and unlike RK, TMNT's last season can't be considered just filler at all.
Well, I can't speak for TMNT since I haven't seen that much of 2K3, myself, but RK is justified for not being on the list. I like the anime, but really its filler is downright awful and it can't be ignored in the grand scope of things. Its an entire third of the anime that's just flat-out crap. And even if we only considered the first two-thirds of the series, only the Kyoto arc really stands out whereas the beginning episodes are fairly average at best, and if only a third of the series is really noteworthy, then its not really top 65 (or even 100, for that matter) material. That said, if this were a list about manga, RK would easily be in the top 10, IMO.
Quote from: Foggle on May 21, 2012, 04:12:24 PM
I'd love to see Archer in the top 15, honestly. And maybe GitS SAC on there somewhere.
:wth: I kill you!
Quote from: Foggle on May 21, 2012, 05:02:13 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 21, 2012, 05:00:35 PM
I don't think Futurama or South Park should be lower. I'd still argue to put SP in the top 20, but since everyone else was so against it we settled for being just outside of it at the #21 spot. I don't really feel that its declined in quality at all, as the episodes are still pretty hit or miss, so I'm fine with the show staying where its at. As for Futurama, the new seasons aren't as strong as the older ones (though they still have good episodes), which is why I wouldn't put it in the top 10 or anything (if it were just the original 4 seasons, though, I'd argue that it belongs there), but even so I think it belongs in the top 15, personally.
I would like to see Futurama in the top 10, personally. I think it's better than The Simpsons quality-wise, even if that one's more influential. I'm cool with South Park being in the top 20, as well (though I'd really love to see Archer in there).
Oh, and I think Full Metal Panic TSR should be a lot higher on the list. Courage too.
Courage can never get enough love. I preferred this show over Johnny Bravo.
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 22, 2012, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: Foggle on May 21, 2012, 04:12:24 PM
I'd love to see Archer in the top 15, honestly. And maybe GitS SAC on there somewhere.
:wth: I kill you!
And that is why you're not a mod.
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 22, 2012, 06:20:21 PM
It was really stupid that TMNT made the list but Rurouni Kenshin didn't even though TMNT had an awful final season as well. A lack of research was done there and unlike RK, TMNT's last season can't be considered just filler at all.
There's over 100 great episodes of TMNT2K3.
There's one great season of RK, one terrible season, and one good one with filler.
I enjoy both shows, but I'd say one has the clear advantage.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 23, 2012, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 22, 2012, 06:20:21 PM
It was really stupid that TMNT made the list but Rurouni Kenshin didn't even though TMNT had an awful final season as well. A lack of research was done there and unlike RK, TMNT's last season can't be considered just filler at all.
There's over 100 great episodes of TMNT2K3.
There's one great season of RK, one terrible season, and one good one with filler.
I enjoy both shows, but I'd say one has the clear advantage.
Nothing makes up for how terrible the dragon season is. :bleh:
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 23, 2012, 03:46:41 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 23, 2012, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 22, 2012, 06:20:21 PM
It was really stupid that TMNT made the list but Rurouni Kenshin didn't even though TMNT had an awful final season as well. A lack of research was done there and unlike RK, TMNT's last season can't be considered just filler at all.
There's over 100 great episodes of TMNT2K3.
There's one great season of RK, one terrible season, and one good one with filler.
I enjoy both shows, but I'd say one has the clear advantage.
Nothing makes up for how terrible the dragon season is. :bleh:
I dunno, I'd say the lack of Einishi hurts RK worse. :P
And in case anyone is even thinking of mentioning Reflection, get the fuck off this site, because you clearly don't belong here. :burn:
But really, in hindsight we should've swapped out Monster with Gargoyles, and YYH with either Evangelion or MGM.
Doesn't Foggle hate NGE now?
But I do agree on MGM.
Yeah, I'd agree with both of those swaps, myself.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 23, 2012, 08:12:30 PM
Doesn't Foggle hate NGE now?
No, I just find some of the early episodes (and the first Rebuild film) to be bad and embarrassing to watch at times. As a whole, I still love it, especially EoE.
I'll just go ahead and be the one to come out saying that I just flat-out don't get EoE, or at least the second half of it (the first half makes for a damn good sci-fi action flick, though). I know its supposed to be deep and intellectual and philosophical, but yeah, none of it makes sense to me. Some people would say that's because I'm "just not smart enough," but really I just don't get it, and I don't think it has anything to do with intellect (though I admit that I suck at philosophy).
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 23, 2012, 09:19:05 PM
I'll just go ahead and be the one to come out saying that I just flat-out don't get EoE, or at least the second half of it (the first half makes for a damn good sci-fi action flick, though). I know its supposed to be deep and intellectual and philosophical, but yeah, none of it makes sense to me. Some people would say that's because I'm "just not smart enough," but really I just don't get it, and I don't think it has anything to do with intellect (though I admit that I suck at philosophy).
The first half is the reason why I love it so much, but the second is really good too. I have a decent grasp on some of what's happening (the most obvious stuff, haha), and the rest is a feast for the eyes and ears. The whole thing's just sublime IMO, even if it doesn't make sense at times.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 23, 2012, 09:19:05 PM
I'll just go ahead and be the one to come out saying that I just flat-out don't get EoE, or at least the second half of it (the first half makes for a damn good sci-fi action flick, though). I know its supposed to be deep and intellectual and philosophical, but yeah, none of it makes sense to me. Some people would say that's because I'm "just not smart enough," but really I just don't get it, and I don't think it has anything to do with intellect (though I admit that I suck at philosophy).
I think most people that enjoy NGE just throw the philosophy out the window when dealing with the show. It's too convoluted and nonsensical. Anyone who says they "get" it, don't really since even Anno doesn't even know what he was doing when making it.
But the character relationships, action, and general direction are all pretty top notch.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 23, 2012, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 23, 2012, 09:19:05 PM
I'll just go ahead and be the one to come out saying that I just flat-out don't get EoE, or at least the second half of it (the first half makes for a damn good sci-fi action flick, though). I know its supposed to be deep and intellectual and philosophical, but yeah, none of it makes sense to me. Some people would say that's because I'm "just not smart enough," but really I just don't get it, and I don't think it has anything to do with intellect (though I admit that I suck at philosophy).
I think most people that enjoy NGE just through the philosophy out the window when dealing with the show. It's too convoluted and nonsensical. Anyone who says they "get" it, don't really since even Anno doesn't even know what he was doing when making it.
But the character relationships, action, and general direction are all pretty top notch.
It's an excellent character study of a depressed teenager and his various relationships with a few cool action scenes thrown in here and there. The "philosophical" stuff is best left ignored.
Quote from: Foggle on May 23, 2012, 09:26:46 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 23, 2012, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 23, 2012, 09:19:05 PM
I'll just go ahead and be the one to come out saying that I just flat-out don't get EoE, or at least the second half of it (the first half makes for a damn good sci-fi action flick, though). I know its supposed to be deep and intellectual and philosophical, but yeah, none of it makes sense to me. Some people would say that's because I'm "just not smart enough," but really I just don't get it, and I don't think it has anything to do with intellect (though I admit that I suck at philosophy).
I think most people that enjoy NGE just through the philosophy out the window when dealing with the show. It's too convoluted and nonsensical. Anyone who says they "get" it, don't really since even Anno doesn't even know what he was doing when making it.
But the character relationships, action, and general direction are all pretty top notch.
It's an excellent character study of a depressed teenager and his various relationships with a few cool action scenes thrown in here and there. The "philosophical" stuff is best left ignored.
Yeah, at its base level its a good mecha show with good characters. The basic story is pretty good, too. I think most just leave it at that, because that's what people enjoy the most from it.
It's the fanatics that analyzed the thing to death that made it such a pain to deal with back in the day. Anno was going through a breakdown during production, so he clearly didn't have a "deep" game-plan when making it.
At the end of the day, the manga and Rebuild movies are better ways to get people into NGE, since they don't get as convulted as the anime do and focus more on the character study and action that make it so endearing.
Well, I really liked the first 22 episodes of the TV series. It did get off to a slow start, but I liked the characters and even though I ignored the philosophy (which there wasn't much present of until toward the end of the show), there was still a really good mecha and monster of the week show in there with some good characters and a fair amount of depth. I don't see why some people insist that these are pretentious and unlikable characters. I can see people calling the philosophy of the show an unlikable aspect of it, but the characters themselves are really well-written and I don't downright dislike any of them. Misato is actually the most likable character, especially since she's the first person to ever actually treat Shinji with any sort of respect, even offering him early on in the series to stay with her when she realizes that he's all alone. The rest of the cast is also nicely handled, for the most part. Also, I don't get why people go all-out on attacking Shinji's character. I've heard so many complaints about him being "emo," and after finally having watched the show I was convinced that the people saying that hadn't actually seen the show and were just jumping on the hate bandwagon. I mean, he does have his pathetic moments, which are intentional, but most of the time he's a pretty normal character (relative to the rest of the world he lives in), and he is even upbeat quite a bit throughout the middle of the show. The only time he ever fits the "emo" bill is really in the last 3 episodes of the series, and using that to make a generalization of the whole entire series makes for a weak argument.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 24, 2012, 12:24:28 AM
Well, I really liked the first 22 episodes of the TV series.
You don't like episodes 23 and 24? ???
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 24, 2012, 12:24:28 AM
I don't see why some people insist that these are pretentious and unlikable characters.
I don't like Asuka. At all. Really love everyone else, though.
QuoteAlso, I don't get why people go all-out on attacking Shinji's character. I've heard so many complaints about him being "emo," and after finally having watched the show I was convinced that the people saying that hadn't actually seen the show and were just jumping on the hate bandwagon. I mean, he does have his pathetic moments, which are intentional, but most of the time he's a pretty normal character (relative to the rest of the world he lives in), and he is even upbeat quite a bit throughout the middle of the show. The only time he ever fits the "emo" bill is really in the last 3 episodes of the series, and using that to make a generalization of the whole entire series makes for a weak argument.
Shinji is a great character. I hate when people rag on him. Yeah, he's kind of wimpy at the beginning, but that's kind of the point. And his "emo" phase actually makes a lot of sense given the events of episode 24.
Asuka's actually my favorite, if only for how much of a cunt she is.
Quote from: Foggle on May 24, 2012, 12:29:36 AM
You don't like episodes 23 and 24? ???
No, while they aren't of the same breed as the last 2 episodes, they just feel too slow and boring for me, in general.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 24, 2012, 12:24:28 AM
I don't like Asuka. At all. Really love everyone else, though.
I didn't like Asuka at first, either, but then I got to understand her character a little better and while she's far from my favorite, she's not really the bitch she tries to make herself out to be. I also like her competitive nature with Shinji. Plus, she arguably has the most bad-ass moment in anything NGE related that I've seen (in the EoE movie, if you know which scene I'm thinking about).
QuoteShinji is a great character. I hate when people rag on him. Yeah, he's kind of wimpy at the beginning, but that's kind of the point. And his "emo" phase actually makes a lot of sense given the events of episode 24.
And, honestly, can you even blame his character for being wimpy at the beginning? I mean, just think about the context of his situation. The dude lives a relatively normal life (sure, he lives alone and stuff like that, but its not like he was living through life or death situations since he was born), and then all of a sudden he's told that he needs to pilot a large Eva unit and take out giant-sized enemies that could easily kill him, without having had any sort of prior training or time to prepare for such a situation. How is that not a sufficient reason for anyone to freak out? The kid is essentially told to become a hardened fighter and put his life on the line to protect the city in the span of no more than an hour. That's a pretty good reason to want to wimp out.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 24, 2012, 12:53:57 AM
No, while they aren't of the same breed as the last 2 episodes, they just feel too slow and boring for me, in general.
Yeah, while I love 24, a certain scene near the end is dragged out for way too fucking long. But honestly, I like episodes 25 and 26.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 24, 2012, 12:24:28 AM
I didn't like Asuka at first, either, but then I got to understand her character a little better and while she's far from my favorite, she's not really the bitch she tries to make herself out to be. I also like her competitive nature with Shinji. Plus, she arguably has the most bad-ass moment in anything NGE related that I've seen (in the EoE movie, if you know which scene I'm thinking about).
I
do like her in EoE and Rebuild, but not so much in the actual series.
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 01, 2011, 02:44:53 PM
TRIPLE POST! I've been thinking, I forgot about Avatar which I like more than Titan and I just might like it more than Justice League.
Also here's a list of cartoons that I hope make the list and what probability I think they have of making it:
Guaranteed:
Batman
The Simpsons
King Of The Hill
Futurama
Ed, Edd 'n Eddy
Dexter's Laboratory
Monster
Gargoyles
Cowboy Bebop
Yu yu Hakusho
Likely:
Avatar
Samurai Jack
Lupin The Third
Rurouni Kenshin
Batman Beyond
Tales Spin
Duck Tales
Darkwing Duck
Trigun
No chance:
X-Men
Star Wars Clones Wars 2003
Sym-Bionic Titan
Samurai Champloo
Fist of the Northstar
Legion Of Superheroes
And heh I found the first post where ensatsuken found out that I was a Yu yu Hakusho fan. Good times. I found that because I have to google to find lists of my favorite anime because I never remember them all :D
Shit, did any of these shows make the list? :'( Found this post while looking for another list because I still can't remember all of my favorites. :D
Off the top of my head, I know that Lupin and Duck Tales made it. I'm the one who wrote the Lupin piece. ;)
Avatar and Batman Beyond also made the list.
Good job on the Lupin part, Foggle. :thumbup:
Looking back at old posts, I saw that Darkwing Duck also made it. Nice.
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 06, 2011, 04:37:57 PM
Quote from: Eddy on July 06, 2011, 02:10:50 PM
The top ten better be the following:
10) Assy McGee
09) Rocket Power
08) Butch Hartman (not any of his shows in particular, just Butch Hartman himself)
07) The Super Mario Bros. Super Show
06) Captain N
05) My Little Pony (G1)
04) Problem Solverz
03) Donkey Kong Country
02) Drawn Together
01) Bad Dog
In all seriousness, I expect to see Ed, Edd n Eddy, Cowboy Bebop, The Simpsons, Rocko's Modern Life, Looney Tunes, Batman: The Animated Series, and maybe FLCL in the coming entries.
Since one of the mods is a jackass that hates FLCL it won't make it. Also Avaitor probably forced Looney Tunes out of the criteria AGAIN.
I think the top 10 will either be:
EK biased pick OR EK and another member's beloved show
Gargoyles
Ed, Edd, 'n Eddy
Cowboy Bebop
Batman
Monster
The Simpsons
Yu yu Hakusho
King Of The Hill
Rurouni Kenshin
A predictable bunch, y'all are.
If Billy and Mandy makes the list, I am punching Desen in the face. EK's pick is FAR more acceptable than complete shit
I believe that would be Jake Long was the show I had in mind.
South Park being EK's pick. That show is as dumb as its fans. *continues searching for my list*
^Actually, seeing how apparently Jake Long was early in the list, before I made my prediction, I think the "EK and another member's" show pick was going to be One Piece not Jake Long. Forget who the other guy was if OP was in fact the show I was thinking of.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 28, 2011, 07:38:15 PM
Foggle, I don't want to know half of those anime
Avaitor, stay ze hell away from my harddrive.
My list in no order:
Samurai Jack
Dexter's Laboratory
Star Wars Clone Wars 2003
King Of The Hill
X-Men
Batman TAS
Futurama
The Simpsons
Ed, Edd 'n Eddy
Justice League
Me obviously an action and GT freak.
Found the list. I forgot to put Avatar in it. Replace that with X-Men. Batman Beyond would also be above it as well as a certain other show. Time to go make another list.
I'll make it easy for you
Guaranteed:
Batman - Of course
The Simpsons - Yep
King Of The Hill - No question there
Futurama - Uh huh
Ed, Edd 'n Eddy - natch
Dexter's Laboratory - Any list without it is biased
Monster - We wouldn't overlook this
Gargoyles - No doubt
Cowboy Bebop - Si
Yu yu Hakusho - It is the best Shonen
Likely:
Avatar - People were only surprised at how low it was
Samurai Jack - It never came up
Lupin The Third - It was on since day one
Rurouni Kenshin - No one suggested it
Batman Beyond - Of course
Tales Spin - It was on the list at one point, but just missed the cut
Duck Tales - It's on there. Pretty high, too.
Darkwing Duck - Same
Trigun - It never came up. If the list was bigger it might have slid in.
No chance:
X-Men - All X-Men shows were considered. Only Evolution and Wolverine were in serious contention
Star Wars Clones Wars 2003 - On a top 100, it might have made it in
Sym-Bionic Titan - It was too new. I would vote for it now, though
Samurai Champloo - Not even considered
Fist of the Northstar - Too much filler
Legion Of Superheroes - Not considered
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 24, 2012, 12:05:04 PM
Samurai Jack - It never came up
I actually
did bring it up near the beginning. :P
Quote from: Foggle on May 24, 2012, 12:07:19 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 24, 2012, 12:05:04 PM
Samurai Jack - It never came up
I actually did bring it up near the beginning. :P
Did you? I don't remember it having much discussion. :sweat:
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 24, 2012, 12:11:31 PM
Quote from: Foggle on May 24, 2012, 12:07:19 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 24, 2012, 12:05:04 PM
Samurai Jack - It never came up
I actually did bring it up near the beginning. :P
Did you? I don't remember it having much discussion. :sweat:
It was basically just me saying, "I like Samurai Jack, maybe it should be in the 60's somewhere?" and everyone else being like "no." :lol:
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 24, 2012, 01:42:58 AM
South Park being EK's pick. That show is as dumb as its fans. *continues searching for my list*
And yet even its fans manage to be significantly smarter than you. Imagine that. :>
Never will understand how Trigun never came up.
I wouldn't put Sym-Bionic Titan on an all time greatest list. I love the show but a little bit too many throwaway episodes, too incomplete. Not because of a stupid reason like barely watching any episodes and writing it off as a generic giant robot show like EK did though.
There's a lot of great short-lasting anime that could've made it in, but lost to other things. Trigun is one.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 21, 2012, 04:54:19 PM
As for what I'd put higher? DuckTales, TB&TB, and The Real Ghostbusters should all be a tad higher.
Watching some of TRG again, I totally agree. I think at one point we had it in the top 50 but moved it out. It really is one of the best shows from the 80's.
Although I do think that DuckTales might be THE best, period.
DuckTales should have been in the top 20, IMO. The show was really too good.
I just hope you guys wouldn't put NGE over Monster. While I would probably take Monster out of the top 10, I would definitely not have NGE above it.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 27, 2012, 10:15:43 PM
I just hope you guys wouldn't put NGE over Monster.
I wouldn't.
If you know me, I might've. But not if you guys aren't cool with that.
I think both should be in the top 20, but Monster should be higher.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 27, 2012, 10:15:43 PM
DuckTales should have been in the top 20, IMO. The show was really too good.
You know, as much as I love MSG and Daria, I could've easily replaced either one for DuckTales. It fits enough of the requirements to hit the top 20, but I didn't vouch for it to rank that high since I wasn't sure if we should rank something that the rest of the people on the list aren't as familiar with that high, like DT.
Although I guess in that case, we shouldn't have put Jonny Quest or Rocky & Bullwinkle so high either. But I think they completely deserve their placements myself.
I dunno, I think those two completely deserve high rankings (and R&B is totally a top 5 show) but DuckTales... I think DuckTales will go down as a classic once it's out of the "80s kid nostalgia" phase of its life. For those who weren't 80s kids, it's already a classic.
DuckTales' appeal has nothing to do with 80's nostalgia. I grew up loving it as a 90's kid, and I still love it today.
I never grew up with Ducktales, and I've only ever seen a few episodes of the show. Perhaps I should watch a good chunk of it and be the unbiased judge of whether its a good show that has stood the test of time or is a product of nostalgia. What I've seen of it was surprisingly good, but not exactly top 20 material, either, but I'd need to see a lot more of it, myself.
I bumped the tz thread out of boredom. Feel free to prepare yourself to post there as well. You might also need to c/p the new blog's take on it, considering that I'm using my iPhone.
I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE YOU CLODS DIDN'T INCLUDE THUNDERCATS OR G1 TRANSFORMERS OR MY LIFE ME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edcmsMtrC4Q)
:srs: (https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf) :srs: (https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf) :srs: (https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)
For a second, I actually thought we had an Applejack smiley.
My god, I believe I actually lost brain-cells while watching that. I barely lasted a full minute into the video before just enough of my senses had returned to me for me to realize that I had the ability to close the page and never have to watch it again. :whuh:
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 19, 2012, 06:56:50 PM
My god, I believe I actually lost brain-cells while watching that. I barely lasted a full minute into the video before just enough of my senses had returned to me for me to realize that I had the ability to close the page and never have to watch it again. :whuh:
Someone's clearly too scared to be a monguh artist. :sly:
I'm totally going to make a My Life Me thread.
Quote from: Eddy on August 19, 2012, 06:46:24 PM
MY LIFE ME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edcmsMtrC4Q)
That was one of the worst things I've ever seen.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 19, 2012, 06:51:58 PM
For a second, I actually thought we had an Applejack smiley.
So did I. It was mortifying.
I made it 5 minutes into that video, then I made a fatal mistake and skipped to the "poetry" part. I don't know how I survived.
I'm very traumatized.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 19, 2012, 06:51:58 PM
For a second, I actually thought we had an Applejack smiley.
Me too. I was actually kind of dissapointed that that wasn't the case.
Quote from: Foggle on August 19, 2012, 07:26:21 PM
So did I. It was mortifying.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)
Quote from: Kiddington on August 19, 2012, 11:46:50 PM
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)
:tripod:
Quote from: Foggle on August 20, 2012, 12:02:47 AM
Quote from: Kiddington on August 19, 2012, 11:46:50 PM
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)
:tripod:
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP54lO.gif&hash=e738217dba37fd90df803b68a395462167733dcf)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ponyfortress2.com%2Fpublic%2Fstyle_emoticons%2Fdefault%2Fdoublefacehoof.png&hash=f769a481758450006ef73f46f98412d9cf7be24e)
:light:
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 28, 2012, 12:39:41 PM
I never grew up with Ducktales, and I've only ever seen a few episodes of the show. Perhaps I should watch a good chunk of it and be the unbiased judge of whether its a good show that has stood the test of time or is a product of nostalgia. What I've seen of it was surprisingly good, but not exactly top 20 material, either, but I'd need to see a lot more of it, myself.
What an oddly worded statement. You make it sound like you had more than one chance to grow up. :>
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 21, 2012, 09:03:08 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 28, 2012, 12:39:41 PM
I never grew up with Ducktales, and I've only ever seen a few episodes of the show. Perhaps I should watch a good chunk of it and be the unbiased judge of whether its a good show that has stood the test of time or is a product of nostalgia. What I've seen of it was surprisingly good, but not exactly top 20 material, either, but I'd need to see a lot more of it, myself.
What an oddly worded statement. You make it sound like you had more than one chance to grow up. :>
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m7trow52Hx1qzso37.gif&hash=0e4f87e8b49371ab9dba99dd39cc6b81c37d234e)
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 21, 2012, 09:03:54 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 21, 2012, 09:03:08 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 28, 2012, 12:39:41 PM
I never grew up with Ducktales, and I've only ever seen a few episodes of the show. Perhaps I should watch a good chunk of it and be the unbiased judge of whether its a good show that has stood the test of time or is a product of nostalgia. What I've seen of it was surprisingly good, but not exactly top 20 material, either, but I'd need to see a lot more of it, myself.
What an oddly worded statement. You make it sound like you had more than one chance to grow up. :>
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m7trow52Hx1qzso37.gif&hash=0e4f87e8b49371ab9dba99dd39cc6b81c37d234e)
:anger:
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 21, 2012, 09:03:08 PM
What an oddly worded statement. You make it sound like you had more than one chance to grow up. :>
I'd give you credit for putting forth some effort, but your joke doesn't even remotely make any sense, on top of making you look as lame as ever.
Typical, GSF. :>
Quote from: Eddy on August 19, 2012, 07:20:54 PM
I'm totally going to make a My Life Me thread.
Please don't. We have enough cancerous canadian cartoon discussion with Johnny Test.
TV Guide recently tried their own list for the 60 greatest cartoons of all time, and this is what they came up with:
1. The Simpsons- Well, the first 8-10 seasons are full of enough greatness to justify its ranking at #1, but I still think that it's far from consistent enough to be THE greatest.
2. The Flintstones- Okay, I'm the biggest defender of the show on this site and genuniely enjoy a lot of episodes, but #2? Hell no.
3. Looney Tunes- I know, there are racist moments and a lot of weak shorts, but I still wouldn't put this below The Simpsons or The Flintstones. When the originals got it right, they're still among the funniest things ever made.
4. The Peanuts specials- Eh, give or take.
5. Scooby-Doo- Fuck. And. No.
6. Rocky and Bullwinkle- I'm okay with this where it is, but that's just me.
7. Batman: The Animated Series- Y'no, the show is already starting to show its age now, although moreso in the animation and pacing departments than when it comes to writing, atmosphere, or voice acting. However, I still think that B:TAS will remain as the golden example of action-oriented animation in another 20 years, at least.
8. Spongebob Squarepants- I know, the show has had some good episodes and a big impact on pop culture. But honestly, even if you ignore the post-movie episodes, it just isn't THAT good.
9. Family Guy- Fuck no.
10. South Park- Compared to some of the shows on here, it should be higher, for sure, even if it's not a personal favorite. But still.
They only rank the "Top 10", and here are the other 50 they considered.
Adventure Time
Animaniacs
Archer
Avatar: The Last Airbender
Batman Beyond
Batman: The Brave and the Bold
Battle of the Planets
Beavis and Butt-Head
Bob's Burgers
Daria
Dexter's Laboratory
Dora the Explorer
Drawn Together
The Fairly OddParents
Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids
Futurama
George of the Jungle
Gravity Falls
He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
The Huckleberry Hound Show
Iron Man: Armored Adventures
Jem and the Holograms
The Jetsons
Jonny Quest
Josie and the Pussycats
Justice League/Justice League Unlimited
Kim Possible
King of the Hill
The Magilla Gorilla Show
Mighty Mouse
My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic
Phineas and Ferb
The Pink Panther Show
Pinky and the Brain
Popeye the Sailor
The Powerpuff Girls
Ren & Stimpy
Rugrats
Samurai Jack
The Smurfs
The Spectacular Spider-Man
Star Wars: The Clone Wars
Super Friends
Superman: The Animated Series
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Tom and Jerry
ThunderCats
Underdog
Woody Woodpecker
The Yogi Bear Show
There's some deserving series on here (KOTH, SSM, the other DCAU shows, Archer), some way-not deserving series (Drawn Together, Iron Man: Armored Adventures, Magilla Gorilla, pretty much every 80's toon), and some series which are terribly missing (EEnE, Gargoyles, DuckTales, at least a dozen anime). This list really seems to go for recognizability and the first shows they could come up with, and it shows. Say what you will about our list, but we got it better.
Most lists of Top X Whatever seem to go for "most famous" rather then "best in quality", don't they?
Yeah, the Top 65 list has it's flaws, but I can safely say I agree that most of the series on it deserve a spot somewhere.
Our Top 65 list is garbage purely because I had nothing to do with it and disagree with 50% of it.
It must burn.
Quote from: Lord Dalek on September 28, 2013, 08:46:06 PM
Our Top 65 list is garbage purely because I had nothing to do with it and disagree with 50% of it.
It must burn.
Only 50%? You're right, we did something wrong. It's only a good list if you disagree with the whole thing. :>
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM
1. The Simpsons- Well, the first 8-10 seasons are full of enough greatness to justify its ranking at #1, but I still think that it's far from consistent enough to be THE greatest.
To be honest, while the post Scully seasons are pretty terrible on the whole,
The Simpsons has had the most influence on television, modern comedy, and especially animation more than any other animated television series past and present. That's why I don't mind it making #1 in lists like this, because for all it's bad, I think the weight of it's good overrules that to allow the series to deserve such praise.
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM2. The Flintstones- Okay, I'm the biggest defender of the show on this site and genuniely enjoy a lot of episodes, but #2? Hell no.
Top 20 maybe, but certainly not top 10, and DEFINITELY not over
Looney Tunes.
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM
3. Looney Tunes- I know, there are racist moments and a lot of weak shorts, but I still wouldn't put this below The Simpsons or The Flintstones. When the originals got it right, they're still among the funniest things ever made.
Not sure about the funniest things ever made, at least for me anymore since I find several shorts to show their age and not really be flat-out hilarious, but certainly it should be #1 for it's sheer influence, quality, and historical significance. But it always bothers me that the Silly Symphonies, Terrytoons, MGM cartoons, and other Golden Age classics are usually unrepresented in top lists like these while
Looney Tunes always is. I think it might be too unfair to have
Looney Tunes be on a list of television cartoons when they were produced for theaters like it's Golden Age counterparts that didn't have the fortune of being re-run so prolifically under a package umbrella, but I guess I will always be alone in that opinion...
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM4. The Peanuts specials- Eh, give or take.
I wouldn't put them in the top ten myself, but I'm glad to see them represented, finally.
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM
5. Scooby-Doo- Fuck. And. No.
Where are You?,
Pup, and
Mystery Incorporated should/could all be somewhere in this list, but none of them top 20, much less top 10.
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM
7. Batman: The Animated Series- Y'no, the show is already starting to show its age now, although moreso in the animation and pacing departments than when it comes to writing, atmosphere, or voice acting. However, I still think that B:TAS will remain as the golden example of action-oriented animation in another 20 years, at least.
I've come to have more than just respect for this series and actually really do love it at it's best, now, and it's definitely top 3. Still wouldn't put it over
The Simpsons, though. ;)
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM
8. Spongebob Squarepants- I know, the show has had some good episodes and a big impact on pop culture. But honestly, even if you ignore the post-movie episodes, it just isn't THAT good.
I think it should be somewhere in a top list, but not top 20.
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM9. Family Guy- Fuck no.
For all it's bad, it can't be denied that the show had 5 good seasons and an enormous influence. Putting my bias and hate for it now aside, if I was objectively making a list of top cartoons, I would put it in the top 30 at the very least. I would put
American Dad much higher than it anyway, though. ;)
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM
Battle of the Planets
This is the only anime they have in their list? Over
Bebop and
Trigun? What. The. Fuck.
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM
Drawn Together
I agree with this being on a top list. It is a hilarious show. I wouldn't put it high if I was making an objective list, personally, probably only top 60 at most, but I'm glad one of these top lists has it represented.
Quote from: Avaitor on September 28, 2013, 08:32:23 PM
Dora the Explorer
Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids
George of the Jungle
He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
Iron Man: Armored Adventures
Jem and the Holograms
Josie and the Pussycats
The Magilla Gorilla Show
The Smurfs
Super Friends
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
...no. Just...no. Some of these might not be god-awful, but they don't deserve to be anywhere near a top 60 cartoons list. Damn nostalgics...
Really, this list seems based more on popularity than quality, which is why AR's list is far, far better. The only reason I will not call this the title of the worst list of cartoons I've seen is the sheer fact they gave
Drawn Together some respect. :>
Quote from: Cartoon X on September 28, 2013, 10:22:58 PM
But it always bothers me that the Silly Symphonies, Terrytoons, MGM cartoons, and other Golden Age classics are usually unrepresented in top lists like these while Looney Tunes always is. I think it might be too unfair to have Looney Tunes be on a list of television cartoons when they were produced for theaters like it's Golden Age counterparts that didn't have the fortune of being re-run so prolifically under a package umbrella, but I guess I will always be alone in that opinion...
Welp, you know how we combined MGM's cumulative work in our list, and that was something I decided on almost immediately. We had some discussion about doing the same for Fleischer, but that never came to be, and I also brought up Disney's work, but that was actually ignored by everyone else.
But y'no, if and when we try an updated list, I might just have us try to do it entirely without theatrical cartoons. So no Looney Tunes or Tom & Jerry. Let's see how that goes.
While we're on the subject, I'm going to come out and say my unpopular opinion, here. I know it's great to respect classic shows that have had a lot of influence on the medium, but I just don't think it makes for a very good list if you rate shows near the top just based on their massive influence. What matters the most in the quality of a show. I don't find it fair that a show like The Simpsons, which by now has just as many bad-to-mediocre seasons as it does good one is rated so close to the top of a list, while other shows with more consistent runs are left in the dust. By that logic, we shouldn't have left South Park out of the top 20 in our list, because that show was also very influential in its own right, and had its golden years (and to me still hasn't completely lost steam, as it does at least have a fair amount of hits with each new season). In that case, the show should've been higher.
If we ever update our list, though, Here's what I would say definitely needs to be done:
-Gargoyles should be in the top 5
-Avatar: The Last Airbender should be in the top 20 (even if it's not a personal favorite of mine)
-Yu Yu Hakusho should be removed from the top 10, but still kept in the top 20 (so that Lord Dalek will still be pissed off ;) )
-Same as above for Ed, Edd, n' Eddy
-Johnny Bravo and Dexter's Laboratory should be removed from the list entirely (even if I still have a soft spot for them)
-Futurama should be moved lower because of the newer seasons, but still kept in the top 25
-Puella Magi Madoka Magica should be added to our list
-Digimon Tamers should be added to our list
-Monster should be lower (out of the top 10, at least)
-South Park should be in the top 20
-Batman: The Brave and the Bold should be in the top 30
-The Spectacular Spider-Man should be in the top 30
-Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid should at least crack the top 50
Other than that, everything else could stay the same and I'd be fine enough with it, but like I said, personally I wouldn't put The Simpsons quite so high, and I'll admit that I'm not the biggest fan of stuff like Johnny Quest or The Flinstones, even if they are highly influential and well-respected series of their times.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
-Gargoyles should be in the top 5
It definitely should be higher!
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
-Avatar: The Last Airbender should be in the top 20 (even if it's not a personal favorite of mine)
hmm, I'll probably give it a rewatch by the point we do the next list, and see how I feel about it by that point. I was in favor of putting it higher than our original slot, but I still don't think it's top 20 good myself.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
-Same as above for Ed, Edd, n' Eddy[/quote[
Eh, as far as I'm concerned, it's probably the best kids comedy show ever made and probably the most underrated cartoon of all time. I still think its top 10 slot is justified, personally.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
-Johnny Bravo and Dexter's Laboratory should be removed from the list entirely (even if I still have a soft spot for them)
Really? Both are still hella fun, and Dexter has had enough of an impact to justify its spot on the list.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
-Futurama should be moved lower because of the newer seasons, but still kept in the top 25
The newer seasons aren't nearly as great as the show's original run, but I don't think we need to knock it too far off. Maybe a couple of slots at most.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
-Puella Magi Madoka Magica should be added to our list
-Digimon Tamers should be added to our list
I'll add them to my queue!
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
-Monster should be lower (out of the top 10, at least)
When we made the list, we really wanted to raise awareness of the show and Urasawa in general. But when you get down to it, the anime isn't THAT great. The manga is a masterpiece, I'm glad the anime exists, it deserves a slot on our list, but above Bebop? I don't think so.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
-South Park should be in the top 20
Actually, do you think we could swap it with Futurama? In hindsight, that sounds better.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
-Batman: The Brave and the Bold should be in the top 30
-The Spectacular Spider-Man should be in the top 30
Agreed to both.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
-Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid should at least crack the top 50
Also agreed.
All I can really think of is that we should try to find some animation from countries besides the US and Japan, reevaluate Venture, and put Archer in at least the top 25.
Honestly, I'm not a big fan of having top lists representing AR as a whole. All it's going to do is make people hate us and/or nitpick the list, as we've seen from when our members post this one on other sites.
IF we were to update it, I'd argue for Archer being at least in the top 20, and certain nostalgic shows (like Huckleberry Hound and The Flintstones) being either far lower or off the list completely.
Avaitor: With Johnny Bravo and Dexter, I was referring to how they had TERRIBLE final seasons, and while I have a lot of nostalgic love for both shows, I do feel that on re-watches, there are a handful of episodes that haven't aged that well from each. Most of season 1 of Johnny Bravo doesn't do it for me, anymore, leaving only the 2nd and 3rd seasons to pick up the slack (though I do still love those seasons to death, at least).
Quote from: Foggle on September 28, 2013, 11:50:59 PMHonestly, I'm not a big fan of having top lists representing AR as a whole. All it's going to do is make people hate us and/or nitpick the list, as we've seen from when our members post this one on other sites.
But it's not the list itself that represents us. It's our opinions that do. In that regard, it's really no different from one of our regular reviews. I mean, what is out list but a representation of our collaborative opinions on animation at the given time? What better way to represent our opinions on animation than to display what we as a group consider to be the best cartoons out there? I mean, it's not like we just merely listed these shows for the sake of listing them. We actually explained our opinions.
Also, I said from the first time we were making the list that we really shouldn't call it a "best" list, because when you get down to it, there is no such thing as "objective" quality for entertainment. If viewed as a list of our favorite shows as a community, than I think people would be perfectly accepting of our list for what it is. The people who get so angry and nit-picky over that stuff are the types of people who can't respect other people's opinions on stuff. They'd be the same type of people who'd get pissed at our regular reviews if they weren't in direct agreement with their opinions. Do you really care so much if we get them upset with our list? :-\
Yeah, I understand your point better now of how it should be called "Our Favorite" rather than "The Best". Really, I'm just sour about people being assholes on the internet, as usual.
Oh yeah, I forgot one!
-Trigun should be in our top 30, as well! :thumbup:
Quote from: Foggle on September 29, 2013, 12:15:06 AMYeah, I understand your point better now of how it should be called "Our Favorite" rather than "The Best". Really, I'm just sour about people being assholes on the internet, as usual.
I have become less sensitive to ass-holes on the Internet ever I met GSF back on TV.com. :)
Now, they just make me laugh. :D
I think it's more that I actually agree with quite a few of the common criticisms in regards to our list, but very few people word their responses in a constructive way. Then I realize that this may be partly our fault, since some of those "shows that didn't make it" entries were abrasive as hell (I went back and rewrote a few of them upon reading responses from FAN). I feel like maybe we - as a group - weren't mature enough yet when we made the list originally. As I said in a recent blog entry, we need to set a good example when it comes to our pieces. This will make our writing more palatable, and our blog/forum more inviting for newcomers. We can stand out by being what few people on the internet are: chill.
Avaitor: Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention about Ed, Edd, n' Eddy. I know it's a great show, and I like it as well, but just like with YYH, I feel like it doesn't quite fit the top 10 for a list like this on a more collective viewpoint. What I mean is that I think you and I may have a lot of personal bias in our love for each of those shows, respectively, which may cloud our judgement for how much they would appeal to general masses. For what it's worth, though, in a perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry about justifying why either of those shows should be on a top 10 list. ;)
Quote from: Foggle on September 29, 2013, 12:25:27 AMI think it's more that I actually agree with quite a few of the common criticisms in regards to our list, but very few people word their responses in a constructive way. Then I realize that this may be partly our fault, since some of those "shows that didn't make it" entries were abrasive as hell (I went back and rewrote a few of them upon reading responses from FAN).
To be fair, I was against that from the start. If you read my entries for that bit, I feel that I explained my portion of the shows that didn't make our list pretty reasonably. I still don't think that should make you or any of us regret making our list, though. Our list at that time reflected our opinions at that time. Even back then we knew that we would want to update the list a few years from that point, since we know that our opinions constantly change. That's what makes it so interesting. It's fascinating to me to compare our opinions now to how they were back then, IMO.
QuoteI feel like maybe we - as a group - weren't mature enough yet when we made the list originally. As I said in a recent blog entry, we need to set a good example when it comes to our pieces. This will make our writing more palatable, and our blog/forum more inviting for newcomers. We can stand out by being what few people on the internet are: chill.
I agree, and on that note I'd like to add that we will never stop maturing. One thing that I have come to realize is that people are constantly changing over time. Even now that we have come a long way since our original list, we still aren't going to stop changing from this point. I guarantee you that our opinions on stuff now will be radically different from how they may be 10 years from now. I think that the articles we write, though, make for a good time capsule of sorts tracking the progression of our mindsets on entertainment value and other things in general at the given time that we write them. For that very reason, I feel it's actually a good thing to express our opinions on a regular basis.
The only one I did for the bonus bit was GITS, which was wasn't abrasive at all. I'm not pointing fingers or anything - just pointing out that it made a lot of people mad. (Less understandable are the people who thought we hated or were banned from ToonZone because of the friendly little jab I had as our slogan at the time. Really guys?)
Anyway, I understand that we're always maturing. I can't even read some of my older stuff because it makes me embarrassed. At the same time, I don't want to delete it, because like you said, it's a time capsule. That's how I was at the time. Hopefully people can differentiate that from who I am now.
As for improvements/changes to the list, I'm fine with removing Dexter's Lab and Johnny Bravo entirely, though maybe Johnny could go near the bottom of the list. I mean, the last season of JB isn't very good, but I still quite enjoy the rest. Dexter, though... that later stuff really is dire.
If only Dexter had ended with Last But Not Beast....:'(
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 29, 2013, 12:57:03 AM
If only Dexter had ended with Last But Not Beast....:'(
Really, that was a perfect finale. But I do agree, the later episodes are terrible. Worse than PPG's, for sure.
As for the list, well, it's fun to make lists and to talk about them, but eh, no on will ever truly agree on one. And there is more for us to offer with the site than just something like our Top 65 post. I don't think it'd be the worst thing in the world if we left that as a one-off and not update it.
Rocky & Bullwinkle is one of the most boring cartoons ever. Spongebob blows it out of the water.
Anyway, I think Avatar and Spongebob are top 30s material (emphasis on being below 30 and not in the 20s or higher.) Eds are top 10 material. Dexter should stay on the list. Johnny is hard to defend. I already mentioned how the show has an identity crisis and the last season is horrendous. I even got a laugh from Dexter's last season so I think Johnny's may be even worse than that.
Quote from: Foggle on September 29, 2013, 12:51:42 AM
Dexter, though... that later stuff really is dire.
What later stuff? This better not be some Tsukihime-style shit you keep making up.
I really need to pick up my Cartoon Cartoon series and go up to the later episodes of the shows and go into why Dexter and pPG just didn't work by the end of their runs.
Yes, do it. :thumbup:
If we did a new list then we'd just want to change it again in a few years, but I'm not against doing another one.
If I were to do it now Trigun and TB&TB would definitely be top 20.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on September 29, 2013, 08:41:42 PMIf I were to do it now Trigun and TB&TB would definitely be top 20.
Amen!
So I've had thoughts about the list lately. We made this a decade ago, and it looks like something we would have made back then. I've thought about making a new, updated list and going for 100 this time, adding in some of the many exciting series to have premiered or made a mark in the years since we made it, as well as a few we missed or didn't think of. A couple of us actually did make a tentative list... but looking at it recently, I'm not sure about a bunch of it, and I want to start from scratch.
Until then, I'm in a mood, and I'm going to look at each of the choices on our previous list, one by one.
65- Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
So we put this at the bottom of our list as a sign of what was to come for animation in the near future, and wanted to see how the series would turn out. We got two pretty strong seasons out of EMH, enough so that I'd definitely push to rank it higher now. At least until Invincible hit, I'd call it one of the last great super hero series.
64- Baccano!
I'll be honest, while I really liked the series when I watched it ages ago, I rewatched the premiere a while ago and wasn't vibing with it at all. And I also had a hard time with Durarara, so maybe I'm just losing my touch with this kind of series. Am I crazy here? Do you think Baccano! is still higher tier?
63- Excel Saga
Still my blindspot on this list lol. Sorry, Foggle! I do have the first 20 or so manga volumes waiting for me to read when I get the chance, though.
62- Cow & Chicken
I'll be honest, this was always the least essential of the major Cartoon Cartoons, but I do have a soft spot for its absurdity. Spark was the one who pushed for C&C being on here in the first place, but I could easily see this being taken off now that he's retired.
61- Hunter X Hunter (99)
At the time this was made, HXH was still mostly niche in the US. It's only been in the past few years when the second adaptation has helped to build its status among anime fans. I really like that one, and I do give it credit for how it did a good job of tackling the later arcs that the original series missed out on. But I do also appreciate this one's take on the material, and I can definitely see room for both here. Possibly in the same spot?
60- W.I.T.C.H.
I haven't thought about this one in a while. Back when we were doing this, we were still on the "Greg Weisman is teh greatest" phase, even though he only worked on the second season. I'm not sure how I'll feel about it now, but I do recall how watching DVR'd episodes after a dull day of high school made me feel better.
59- American Dragon: Jake Long
Ah, here's an old special interest of mine. Admittedly, I didn't get much push back from everyone else making the list, but I know some aren't a fan of Jake's dialogue. But I still think this was a good stepping stone between Gargoyles and Gravity Falls, and watching random episodes on Disney+ lately have reminded me of why I liked the series so much. The comic relief is pretty good, and the emotional beats still hit, even if it's not up to the standards of either series. This could easily still make it lower on the list.
58- ReBoot
I'm not so sure about this one, tbh. I've been watching it again, and it's very much a show of its time. Honestly, it's slightly charming in that regard, but I couldn't rank it that high now.
57- Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid
Yes.
56- Courage the Cowardly Dog
Why was this so low? Honestly, it's better than a lot of the other CN originals from its time, and should be at least in the top 50.
55- Megas XLR
I'm the party pooper and never got into this one. But I know most of y'all do, so I don't mind it ranking.
54- The Real Ghostbusters
This is still about as good as an 80's cartoon could be, but even then only for the first couple of JMS-penned seasons. I think it could still rank on here, but maybe a bit lower.
53- X-Men: Evolution
I pushed for Evolution, because my Marvel loving ass wanted one more series on here, but watching a little bit of the series again does make me question that. It can be pretty annoying, but to be fair, that's usually the case when you focus on teenagers lol. This is still the best X-Men series imo, but I think you're valid if you'd pick the other ones.
52- Paranoia Agent
Yeah, this should be higher. Rewatching this on Toonami last year was a treat. Possibly Satoshi Kon's defining work?
51- The Angry Beavers
Spark loved this one, but I never got the appeal. I don't think that Norb and Dag are very likable, and nothing else really stands out about it. If he comes back and calls me an idiot for suggesting we take it off, I'll accept it, but this could easily go on my watch.
50- Superman: The Animated Series
Sometimes, this is my favorite DCAU show. It turned me from a Superman agnostic into a believer, and it has some great action. Not to mention that its lows aren't as low as its sister series. But at the same time, we've seen so many interesting works come out since making this list that I can still see it show up on the lower end of the top 100.
49- Beast Wars
I finally gave this a shot a couple of years after making this list, and I can see why Spark pushed for it being on here. It's still among the most worthwhile takes I've seen someone do with the Transformers.
48- The Critic
It stinks!
Actually, the Critic's okay. But it is a little dated, I'll admit. I'd put it a bit lower now.
47- Death Note
Enough time has passed to look past the anime club weebs and Hot Topic posers to admit that Death Note is a pretty well-written series. Maybe it could rank a little lower, but I think this was a fair spot back then.
46- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003)
Honestly this is pretty high, and while I do think this is better than the original series and the 2012 show, I am interested in getting to Rise Of to see how that stacks. Not to mention that the last few seasons were kind of wack...
45- GTO
Man, I haven't thought of this one in ages, but this was a hoot when EK hooked me onto it! I also have a feeling that some people would have a problem with it nowadays, but they're probably wrong. Still, I may need to refresh myself on this to see where it should go.
44- Avatar: The Last Airbender
I think EK and I pushed this to be as low as it is, but that was wrong. Honestly, even though this will never be a personal favorite, the series is looking better every year. It seems like countless shows are still trying to copy its serialized approach and not nailing most of what it got right. Top 20 for sure. Top 10 maybe?
43- Freakazoid!
This is honestly my favorite Tom Ruegger series, and the one I'd push to be ranked highest. I do think that part of what turns me onto it is why Gen Zr's tend to skip it compared to his other series- besides the levels of absurdity the series aims for, it's purposefully niche, going out of its way to make references that even most parents would scratch their heads at. Tiny Toons and Animaniacs, those tend to pick works to reference that are far more timeless, like the Marx Brothers and Michael Keaton's Batman, while a big joke from a Frekazoid! episode revolves around The F-Troop. Who the fuck cares about F-Troop? Yet it's still funny even if you don't get it.
Also, the more Paul Rugg, the better.
42- Duckman
This is another favorite of Spark's, and while I can appreciate its sense of humor, I haven't been able to do a full watch of it. I can only handle so much of it at a time. It's not very pleasant, in any sense. Still worth mentioning as one of the weirder series to catch on to some extent in the 90's.
41- Johnny Bravo
I do really like Johnny, but I think this should go down a few spots. It's just not a very consistent show, but I'd still go to bat for it. There are enough episodes at every point of the series, even the the last series when Van Partible came back and cut out everything that was added during his time away. I think that I still like Johnny better than Dexter and maybe even Powerpuff, but I couldn't reasonably rank it above them.
40- Fullmetal Alchemist
This was for the original, as I don't think Brotherhood had wrapped up at this point, but honestly, I never loved either series that much, and would suggest cutting it out entirely. Although I've honestly liked what I've read of Silver Spoons much better.
39- Batman: The Brave & the Bold
A goddamn delight. In some cases, being second best can sound like a pity prize, but I think everyone involved should appreciate that this is easily the second best Batman cartoon. I don't know if we should put it too much higher, but I think this is a good place for it.
38- The Spectacular Spider-Man
I need to ask... how do y'all still feel about Spectacular? I have such loving memories of the series, but I haven't watched any of it in ages. Is it still as good as we considered it to be when it was new? Or have our standards changed enough to knock it down. I should probably just shut up and put my Blu-Ray on...
37- Darkwing Duck
Darkwing is still the best middle ground between The Tick's more detailed super hero satire, and Freakazoid's sporadic spoofing. Some episodes have aged better than others, but I'm still a fan of the show, and I think that DW and Gosalyn are terrific enough characters to feature on here somewhere.
36- Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law
I don't know how much of this has aged very well, honestly. "Bannon Custody Case" in particular makes me cringe- it's not just 10 minutes of "oh ho, the gays sure are funny, hint hint", but it's close to that, and there are other questionable episodes. But it's held up better than Sealab, I can say that much.
35- The Powerpuff Girls
I wonder if we take this off the list, that would mean that the CW stops going forward with the Diablo Cody show.
The series still slaps (pre-movie at least), but it'd be worth it.
34- Batman Beyond
Heh, if I'm recalling things right, when I was working on the first draft of our new list, Beyond almost missed it entirely until I noticed it was missing. So yes, I do think that time is pushing away the DCAU's luster. And this wasn't a very consistent show. But this is still the best version of itself it can be, and should be at least in the 70's.
33- Space Ghost: Coast to Coast
So while I do think that Harvey Birdman hasn't aged all that well, Space Ghost is still as enjoyable as ever imo. Truthfully, maybe even moreso, as its replay value is pretty strong. We'd probably be foolish to not keep it around this range.
32- Dexter's Laboratory
Did we really put Dexter above PPG? Wasn't my call- believe it or not, this has always been one of my lesser favorites of the classic CN shows. Most of the other shows just did more for me, and I think most of those are of equal or higher quality. But I do think it's good to have this and PPG right next to each other. They both showed the potential the new Hanna-Barbera staff could live up to, and they're strong compliments towards each other.
31- Lupin III
A pretty fair ranking, I could see this go higher if anything. I know that some of Lupin's antics haven't aged all that well, but the earlier series are still highly entertaining, and the more recent ones have done a good job of contextualizing the characters and how they fit in relation to today. I'd like to keep them all together, but if we could only go with one series, I think it'd be neck and neck with the second and Fujiko Mine.
(part 1 of 2)
30- The Huckleberry Hound Show
Yeah, this was all me, and what can I say, I like Hanna-Barbera. I do think that the earlier cartoons still have easy to consider charms, even beyond their importance to the industry, and I'd still put this on the list, but considerably lower. Also, it's funny to see people get their panties in a bunch by the Jellystone trailer.
29- Pinky & the Brain
A bit too high, which is a shame, because there are great scripts all around here, but there just isn't enough to the characters or formula for it to have sustained for as long as it did. But the good stuff is more than good enough to justify a spot here.
28-Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni
I'll... I'll come back to you guys on this one. I should hit up my Blu set of the series. But it does seem like this site's mutual love affair with the first two series has died down considerably over the years.
27- The Boondocks
I'm going to be brutally honest. I was an asshole in my teens and early 20's. To many people, some of which on this site. And I apologize. One thing I do feel bad about is how I enjoyed The Boondocks, and how I laughed at parts of the series that I shouldn't have. This came down to my own ignorance and superiority which I have no rights to claim.
Now when I watch the series, I recognize various bits that are meant to make non-Black viewers uncomfortable (a lot of which involves Ruckus), and while I no longer laugh at those parts, I respect the decisions behind why the strips and series was made. This is a very good series. Aside from the last season.
26- Invader Zim
Like Death Note, I think enough time has passed to make it easier to look past the Hot Topic crowd who devoured Zim in its heyday, and admire the show for what it is. Gir is a little cringey, yes, but I think it's still funny, and probably the last time Nickelodeon could be seen as edgy after Ren & Stimpy. If anything, the movie helped to remind me of what worked about the series.
25- Animaniacs
I was hit or miss on the reboot- for one thing, it turns out that removing every segment besides the two best makes their material less welcome, not more. But at the same time, the original show has always been inconsistent. The Warners often cross the line between respectfully crude and just unpleasant, and a lot of other segments barely work. That, and the show got lazier with its pop culture references and fourth wall breaking as it went along. But the good stuff is still highly entertaining, and the songs are unforgettable. I'd just knock this down a few spots.
24- Tiny Toon Adventures
I'd also move this down a few spots, but I'd like to keep it next to Animaniacs. I could easily swap them around as well, but ah well. Now everybody do the Kennedy shuffle!
23- DuckTales
I think this could rank higher, honestly. Even over the new series. Despite that show's strong concepts, I think the original continues to look better over the years. It's love of adventure and winning TMS animation, especially in the first season, is still worth looking up to. But I would recommend Carl Barks' comics over either show.
22- Home Movies
I put a couple of favorite episodes on last night. This is still my favorite show from everyone involved, even if both Bob's Burgers and Metalocalypse are more popular. But let's be honest, this is too high.
21- South Park
I think this is a good spot for the series, but I could see it going in the top 20 if talked into it. Personally, I don't like when it's the Randy Show, and I haven't had a taste for the series in a while, but I understand why it still resonates for so many. And I think the attacks Matt and Trey get from the left are a little unfair, and very tiresome.
20- Dragon Ball
I've been reading the series all the way through over past year or two, and have put on various episodes of the series. You can't give DB enough credit for all the tropes it brought along to shonen storytelling, and it's still quite fun too. The fan service has definitely not aged well, and that's the one big obstacle behind the first part, but it still resonates with many for a reason.
19- Daria
I'm pretty fine with this, but can see it go down a few spots to make room for other exciting newer series. But while certain elements are definitely stuck in the 90's/early 2000's, I think there's a lot to gravitate towards today. And I think the Jodie-oriented spin-off is probably a bad idea.
18- Mobile Suit Gundam
I pushed for this, because I was on a bit of a Gundam kick at the time, but this is pretty high for something that shows its age as much as it does. We'd probably swap it out for 0080 around this part, and put the original a bit lower. But I still think there's plenty to offer from the original Gundam series.
17- Futurama
I feel like the Comedy Central seasons have ruined my enthusiasm for the series, as I never come back to it anymore. They really don't need to make any more of it, even though the crew seem to never stop trying to bring it back. I'd rank this lower nowadays, as a few other adult series have taken its place for me, but tell me how I'm wrong anyway.
16- Justice League/Unlimited
We've talked before about the show's lows over the years, and that's still valid. But the highs are high enough to justify its place. And part of me just misses the classic super hero cartoon, which you could argue this was the apex of.
15- Rocko's Modern Life
This is probably still the best Nicktoon of all time. Or at least a strong second to Avatar. Yes, we probably should have put SpongeBob on here as well. But Rocko should still be higher.
14- Gargoyles
I used to think that this should be in the top 10, and I know some definitely will think so (hi Greg!). Personally, I think being right outside of it is just fine, though. Partly since Gargoyles is arguably a better example of strong writing for animation rather than strong storytelling with animation, especially compared to the main show it stands up to from the same period. That, and Young Justice's failings have soured me on Weisman's writing a smidge. Still, this is still his defining work for a reason.
13- The Flintstones
Yeah, I was kind of on my own when I suggested the show's ranking, and I do still really like it. But there are too many elements that show their age, worst of all the show's attitude towards women, that suggests that we did indeed put this too high. And being important doesn't mean being quality. But there's still a good show here, and it is kinder to Wilma and Betty than some would suggest, so I'd still want it in the top 25
12- MGM.
Some of the greatest cartoons ever made were done in Fred Quimby's studio. But mostly from the Avery and Hanna & Barbera departments. Some of those Harman-Ising cartoons really test your patience, and Barney Bear's cartoons are wildly inconsistent. Still, Avery's stuff, and of course Tom and Jerry warrant eternal praise. But I wouldn't add these cartoons in for the next list.
11- Neon Genesis Evangelion
Ah, here's everyone's favorite (or least favorite) pretentious mecha normie weeb show. I'll be honest, I don't think that I could sit down and watch it again- I've seen it too many times and I've probably taken everything from it that I can. But I'm still pro-NGE, and think this is a good spot for it.
10- Yu Yu Hakusho
As far as I'm concerned, this is still the gold standard for shonen storytelling. At least in animated form. But this was too high, and we'd definitely knock it down a little for the next list.
9- Jonny Quest
I do still really enjoy Quest, and I'll always give it credit for kickstarting my love for pulp adventure. But this is too high. Especially when you see how grossly racist it could get. This will definitely be knocked down a bit.
8- Cowboy Bebop
Bebop is still the anime to recommend to people who don't get anime for a reason. Sometimes I feel like it's lost a bit of its luster over the years, but I've been trying to rewatch it piece by piece lately and... nah, it's still good. Will very likely still be a top 10.
7- Ed, Edd n' Eddy
This was probably what I fought for the hardest, and surprise surprise, I'd still like to put the show in the top 10. This is more than just a childhood favorite though. HBO Max putting the show up has been a godsend, and I often put on a favorite episode when I need something to calm me down.
And it does bug me that it's appeared on so few of these lists. This is still among the most creative series ever made, and it deserves to at least have a seat on the table with the other considered greats. This is a hill I'll die on.
6- Monster
Naoki Urasawa's manga is one of the best I've read ever, an unforgettable emotional thrill ride that's better plotted than most page turners you'll find. The anime adaptation is... one of the best manga I've ever read.
We fought to put Monster in the top 10, because we wanted to share the good word of the series when it seemed like it wasn't catching on all that well in the states. But let's be honest, while the series is perfectly competent, it's an indictment of the book report adaptation, as it doesn't really offer you anything you couldn't experience from the original manga. That, and the fact that Urasawa is a better seller stateside than we thought at the time, is enough reason to drop this version of Monster from the list entirely.
5- King of the Hill
This has become another comfort show for me, when I need to sit down and relax. Over the course of 250-something episodes, there's been very few misfires, and too many great lines you might have forgotten for dozens of other ones. I could knock it down a slot or two, but Spark wasn't kidding when he called this one of the greats.
4- The Rocky & Bullwinkle Show
What can I say, the moose and squirrel did more with their limited animation than their contemporaries did, allowing for some of the sharpest writing brought to animation to shield its animated failings. I'd like to keep it high.
3- The Simpsons
So you may or may not have noticed my new blog, where I've been going over the series one episode (well really two) at a time. I've been having fun doing it. The first 8ish years or so are heralded for a reason, but I'd also be lying if I said that every element is as fresh today as they were 30 or so years ago. And that's before we get to the general mediocrity of the past 20 years or so of content. Not every modern episode is bad, far from that at all, but at this point, it's a matter of quantity when a good episode comes out, not quality. And that does hurt the show's reputation, even if just a little.
2- Batman: The Animated Series
I think I've mentioned this before, but I do think we're seeing B:TAS lose its influence. Action cartoons aren't being made in its image as much, and the aesthetic is similarly being copied less often. I think Avatar is more of the template nowadays.
But at its best, no one does what Timm and co managed with this. Not even with their other shows.
1- Looney Tunes
Over the past few months, I've been putting on some Looney Tunes shorts when I'm having dinner, and it's always a good time. Whether I'm seeing Avery, Clampett, and Tashlin change how these cartoons handled comedic timing, or masterpieces from Freleng and Jones, these are still the kings of cartoons.
But if I was to do this again, they wouldn't rank here at all. I think we need to remove theatrical cartoons entirely from this list. Just to make it a little more balanced at least, as Looney Tunes, Mickey Mouse, Tom and Jerry, Popeye, no matter how strong these were, they weren't series in the same way everything else here is. Plus, we should see what would be the new king if we have to let Bugs retire the throne. Probably not The Simpsons.
So there we go. Some series will probably be taken out if we do this again, but I'd like to save a good handful or two of these, even if they're in different places.
What would make it onto the next list? You'll just have to find out.
Yeah, EMH was fun but it seemed less a sign of greater thing and more a happy accident after what happened next to Marvel cartoons. A lot of the shows above I have happy memories of, but haven't rewatched in a while to have an informed enough opinion on. While the ones I do have a fresher opinion on I'm surprised aren't higher.
QuoteBut it does seem like this site's mutual love affair with the first two series has died down considerably over the years.
It was interesting seeing a whole new Higurashi season come out recently, and none of the anime circles I see talked about it at all.
QuoteIf anything, the movie helped to remind me of what worked about the series.
Oh yeah, the movie and the recent comic have done a ton of work ironing out some of the flaws the show had, especially late in its run.
QuoteAnd I think the attacks Matt and Trey get from the left are a little unfair, and very tiresome.
It's almost on the level of "Why doesn't Batman give free housing and jobs to his villains?" discourse. Recently been rewatching It's Always Sunny, and it also has a similar "both sides don't know what they're talking about and aren't noticing the real enemy" theme South Park has, and I'm interested why IASIP hasn't incurred the same bad take. You can't even blame it on seniority, because IASIP is also an old show at this point.
QuoteAnd I think the Jodie-oriented spin-off is probably a bad idea.
Still no news on that too.
QuotePartly since Gargoyles is arguably a better example of strong writing for animation rather than strong storytelling with animation, especially compared to the main show it stands up to from the same period. That, and Young Justice's failings have soured me on Weisman's writing a smidge.
I admit that time and perhaps picking some wrong episodes to rewatch has only jaded my thoughts on Gargoyles. Can't even excuse the Avalon tour because I've seen people write comics that were nothing but backdoor pilots to other comics, but those were actually fun to read. I still appreciate the parts that most agree are unanimously good, but I do remember rewatching City of Stone recently and exasperatedly thinking "They could just chop off Demona's head or throw her into space like she's Kars. Come on, guys. if you don't want to kill her, there's other options."
QuoteI've seen it too many times and I've probably taken everything from it that I can.
There's always 3.0+1.0, whenever that leaks or comes out in America.
QuoteAnd it does bug me that it's appeared on so few of these lists.
Yeah, that confuses me too. EEnE is still talked about and enjoyed plenty enough that it's far from an underrated gem, but not enough to give it a seat on these lists.
Quoteit's an indictment of the book report adaptation, as it doesn't really offer you anything you couldn't experience from the original manga.
Monster is like the anime equivalent of listening to an audiobook at .5X reading speed. It's still good, but you can absolutely just read the manga instead, and that's probably why Urasawa's seen few adaptations since. Wasn't a Pluto anime supposed to come out years ago?
Yeah, our list is a product of our feelings at that time, but it's a really interesting time capsule of how we felt about animation a decade or so ago.
Surprisingly, I'm still on-board with a lot of our choices on this list, albeit with certain placements re-arranged.
I'll respond to a few of Avaitor's thoughts:
65: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes- I just re-watched this series last year and it still mostly holds up. That said I actually think our placement was fine. The series got cut way too short and didn't get to live up to it's full potential, and while better than certain other shows ranked higher on our list, there are also shows that didn't make our list that I'd rank ahead of it. Still, it's one of the few bright spots in Marvel animation.
61. Hunter X Hunter (1999)- I still firmly stand by ranking tgis one over the 2011 version. I don't necessarily think it needs to place that much higher, but it covers the best parts of the story (IMO, since I have issues with Togashi's writing style from Greed Island onward), and actually effectively uses the medium of animation through good direction and music to adapt the source material. In many respects, I'd honestly consider it an improvement over the manga. The 2011 version is fine, but it's far too homogenized in it's look and style to any number of other shonen anime, most of tge music is actually pretty forgettable (IMO), and nothing about it's execution really urges me to revisit the anime after I've already seen it once. I more often go back to the manga or 1999 version, personally.
57. Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid- I honestly would just include the whole series here, along with Fumoffu and Invisible Victory, the latter of which is on par with TSR in terms of quality and the former which was a fun series of side stories. The first season is the weakest of the bunch, but on it's own is still fairly good and sets up all of the great stuff that happens in the later seasons.
56. Courage the Cowardly Dog- Agreed, it deserved to be higher. I didn't appreciate this series enough when I was younger.
55. Megas XLR- I'll be honest and say that while I used to love this show, I haven't ever gone back to it since we made this list. I have no clue if it would still hold up now or not.
52. Paranoia Agent- Having finally watched the show a couple of years back, yes, it deserved to be higher than we put it.
47. Death Note- I own the entire series on Blu-Ray and re-watched it in 2018, and it's definitely still a great show with excellent direction and music. Not to mention incredibly well voice-acted whether in Japanese or English. It suggests a bit from the final third of the show but even then manages to make what was rather drawn out in the manga into something genuinely entertaining, if not all that well written compared to what came before it. It's at a good spot on the list, all of those things considered.
45. Great Teacher Onizuka- This one is tricky. I haven't re-watched it in full in a long time, but have re-visited my favorite moments several time and have no issue believing that it holds up in terms of overall quality. The issue is really in how people would take the inclusion of a series like this given today's societal norms. Onizuka is effectively a fully grown adult who clearly has a desire to sleep with underage hugh school girls, and much of tge show's initial humor revolves around that. Granted, he obviously never gets his way, is not rewarded for that kind of behavior, and the series is clearly about deeper and more meaningful themes than that running gag. Still, it's at the forefront of the show's surface-level humor, and it's something I'd at least put a disclaimer on if we were to make a list like this today and decide to include it. It'd definitely be too much for some people. Personally, I still love the show and original run of the manga, though.
44. Avatar: The Last Airbender- My previous biases against this show were stupid and I was stupid for trying to deny it a higher placement on the list. I can admit when I have been wrong about something and that definitely applies here. It deserves to be a top 10, or at the very least a top 20 contender.
41. Johnny Bravo- Yeah, I won't lie, I love this show out of nostalgia. Taking that out of the equation, it doesn't really belong on this list. It's something with a very specific sense of humor that works for someone like me who grew up with it, but I'd have a hard time recommending it to someone else these days.
I'll comment on a few more picks at a later time.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 30, 2021, 07:55:23 AM
QuoteBut it does seem like this site's mutual love affair with the first two series has died down considerably over the years.
It was interesting seeing a whole new Higurashi season come out recently, and none of the anime circles I see talked about it at all.
Oh yeah, that did happen, didn't it? I know nothing about it whatsoever.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 30, 2021, 07:55:23 AM
QuoteIf anything, the movie helped to remind me of what worked about the series.
Oh yeah, the movie and the recent comic have done a ton of work ironing out some of the flaws the show had, especially late in its run.
Yeah, I should probably check out the comic.
But it does seem like Jhonen is in a better place, and he doesn't seem to resent the show's legacy anymore. Good for him.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 30, 2021, 07:55:23 AM
QuoteAnd I think the attacks Matt and Trey get from the left are a little unfair, and very tiresome.
It's almost on the level of "Why doesn't Batman give free housing and jobs to his villains?" discourse. Recently been rewatching It's Always Sunny, and it also has a similar "both sides don't know what they're talking about and aren't noticing the real enemy" theme South Park has, and I'm interested why IASIP hasn't incurred the same bad take. You can't even blame it on seniority, because IASIP is also an old show at this point.
That's valid, Always Sunny does often go into both sidesism like South Park, but that mostly gets a pass, and is generally liked by the left. I wonder if the Sunny crew going out of their way to course correct some of their more embarrassing moments from past episodes, like bleeping out the R-word and turning the "Mac is gay" running joke into a serious trait about the character has redeemed it for fans, while Matt and Trey are less likely to do that.
I can't say that I agree with everything Matt and Trey have said and written, but spending enough time looking at liberal Twitter does make me more empathetic towards their dislike of the left.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 30, 2021, 07:55:23 AM
QuoteI've seen it too many times and I've probably taken everything from it that I can.
There's always 3.0+1.0, whenever that leaks or comes out in America.
Yeah, it's mostly the original series that I've exhausted. Although I do still need to watch 3.0, I guess.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 30, 2021, 07:55:23 AM
QuoteAnd it does bug me that it's appeared on so few of these lists.
Yeah, that confuses me too. EEnE is still talked about and enjoyed plenty enough that it's far from an underrated gem, but not enough to give it a seat on these lists.
I get that EEnE is not to everyone's taste, but it seems deliberate that the show is often left out of these lists.
And frankly, no matter how cynical the show could get, there's no world where Foster's Home is better.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 30, 2021, 07:55:23 AM
Quoteit's an indictment of the book report adaptation, as it doesn't really offer you anything you couldn't experience from the original manga.
Monster is like the anime equivalent of listening to an audiobook at .5X reading speed. It's still good, but you can absolutely just read the manga instead, and that's probably why Urasawa's seen few adaptations since. Wasn't a Pluto anime supposed to come out years ago?
Yeah, I think the Pluto adaptation is still happening, and to be fair, I'm sure that'll look good in motion.
But yeah, I can't think of a reason to recommend the Monster anime vs the manga. Especially since Viz only released one DVD set and let the rights lapse, while the manga is easily available.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 30, 2021, 02:33:57 PM
Yeah, our list is a product of our feelings at that time, but it's a really interesting time capsule of how we felt about animation a decade or so ago.
Yeah, that's why I'm all for doing a new one. It's cool to see what we thought of as higher tier back then, and what was considered the standard at the time.
But these are also a lot of work, and a lot of these would require some refreshing.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 30, 2021, 02:33:57 PM
65: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes- I just re-watched this series last year and it still mostly holds up. That said I actually think our placement was fine. The series got cut way too short and didn't get to live up to it's full potential, and while better than certain other shows ranked higher on our list, there are also shows that didn't make our list that I'd rank ahead of it. Still, it's one of the few bright spots in Marvel animation.
I started a rewatch last year, but put it on hold for whatever reason. It's not a perfect show, but I dunno, I think it had a good run. I would have liked another season, but it still had twice as many episodes as Spectacular Spider-Man.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 30, 2021, 02:33:57 PM
61. Hunter X Hunter (1999)- I still firmly stand by ranking tgis one over the 2011 version. I don't necessarily think it needs to place that much higher, but it covers the best parts of the story (IMO, since I have issues with Togashi's writing style from Greed Island onward), and actually effectively uses the medium of animation through good direction and music to adapt the source material. In many respects, I'd honestly consider it an improvement over the manga. The 2011 version is fine, but it's far too homogenized in it's look and style to any number of other shonen anime, most of tge music is actually pretty forgettable (IMO), and nothing about it's execution really urges me to revisit the anime after I've already seen it once. I more often go back to the manga or 1999 version, personally.
It seems like a minority opinion to prefer the 1999 anime over the 2011, but I think you make a valid point on the first series using the artform to its advantage. I do like the last couple of arcs the 2011 adapts, which is why I'm a little more positive towards the 2011 series, but I know that Chimera Ant in particular tends to divide fans.
The one thing I'd say 2011 has over the original is a much better dub. I tried watching some of the 99 dub again not too long ago, and I just couldn't.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 30, 2021, 02:33:57 PM
57. Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid- I honestly would just include the whole series here, along with Fumoffu and Invisible Victory, the latter of which is on par with TSR in terms of quality and the former which was a fun series of side stories. The first season is the weakest of the bunch, but on it's own is still fairly good and sets up all of the great stuff that happens in the later seasons.
Invisible Victory was terrific, and it's a shame that there doesn't seem to be much hope for another series to wrap up the first series of books. Although I do think TSR is the best of the shows (IV didn't have as much breathing room in comparison, and felt exhausting at certain points), I think putting the whole franchise together is probably for the best, yes.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 30, 2021, 02:33:57 PM
45. Great Teacher Onizuka- This one is tricky. I haven't re-watched it in full in a long time, but have re-visited my favorite moments several time and have no issue believing that it holds up in terms of overall quality. The issue is really in how people would take the inclusion of a series like this given today's societal norms. Onizuka is effectively a fully grown adult who clearly has a desire to sleep with underage hugh school girls, and much of tge show's initial humor revolves around that. Granted, he obviously never gets his way, is not rewarded for that kind of behavior, and the series is clearly about deeper and more meaningful themes than that running gag. Still, it's at the forefront of the show's surface-level humor, and it's something I'd at least put a disclaimer on if we were to make a list like this today and decide to include it. It'd definitely be too much for some people. Personally, I still love the show and original run of the manga, though.
Yeah, I really don't know how well this would fly today. It seems like younger anime fans have less patience for pervy stuff, especially with underage characters involved. I don't really blame them, but like you said, the show doesn't reward or smile upon Onizuka's libido, either.
Also, remember when JO was good? He gave a pretty solid and well-balanced review of the show. Or at least that's how I remember it. I don't really look back at his stuff anymore.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 30, 2021, 02:33:57 PM
44. Avatar: The Last Airbender- My previous biases against this show were stupid and I was stupid for trying to deny it a higher placement on the list. I can admit when I have been wrong about something and that definitely applies here. It deserves to be a top 10, or at the very least a top 20 contender.
Yeah, same here. People weren't happy with Avatar's placement at the time, and they were right to be upset.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 30, 2021, 02:33:57 PM
41. Johnny Bravo- Yeah, I won't lie, I love this show out of nostalgia. Taking that out of the equation, it doesn't really belong on this list. It's something with a very specific sense of humor that works for someone like me who grew up with it, but I'd have a hard time recommending it to someone else these days.
Yeah, I see what you mean. Dexter and Powerpuff were bigger for a reason, and Johnny does seem to get the shaft compared to other earlier CN shows today. Part of that is because like Onizuka, I can see how he'd make some people uncomfortable, even if again, the show doesn't approve of his attitude towards women. Also, I think he's a little more respectful than that, but that's also because this was a children's show, and they'd only allow so much from their protagonist.
On top of that, the humor isn't quite as agreeable as most of CN's other shows from that era. Dexter and PPG were a little more subtle with their Gen X-oriented references, while Van Partible just dumped Don Knotts and Donny Osmond onto the show like he expected kids to know who they are. That worked for Scooby-Doo, but I can see the Adam West crossover not be as big of a deal with most kids at the time. But I personally liked this stuff, and I think that the cast was solid across the board. I'd still vouch to keep the show on the list, even if it's a lot lower.
As for the top five...
King of the Hill: I haven't watch an episode in a while, but yeah, it is comfort food. The kind of show anybody can easily approach and get a laugh out of. Definitely not trying to be something like Bojack, and this is no disrespect to Bojack because that show and KOTH are doing different things to great effect. It did have a peak and slide downhill similar to other Fox cartoons, I think that point was around the Japan 2-parter, and the character plots did become a formula after a while ("Bill finds a new thing that makes him happy but it makes him an asshole", "Hank finds new trend and gets mad at it", "Cotton comes to town and acts like a senile asshole until Hank calms him down"), but it was still watchable. Bob's Burgers is arguably in the same position KOTH was in late in its life, and it's curious to see how long that lasts.
Rocky and Bullwinkle: It's a show I watched a little of as a kid, and definitely knew about enough that I can imagine June Foray's Rocky voice as much as anyone who saw the show, but I'm not the right person who can argue why it's a classic.
Simpsons: I don't have anything new to say about the golden years of the show, but I did notice today people are angry at the Simpsons/Loki crossover. I agree it's annoying synergy, but let's not pretend The Simpsons was ever above that. Simpsons became a mainstream fixture as soon as the first season, and we got plenty of crossovers with other popular subjects like Do the Bartman and the X-Files crossover. Sure, some episodes riffed on the thing they crossed over with, but plenty didn't, even in the good years. This is just the latest in a long line of attention grabs.
Batman The Animated Series: On the contrary, I think its influence is greater than ever thanks to DC pushing Harley harder than they ever have, Kevin Conroy recently showing up in live-action, and Tom King's ongoing Batman comic that's more or less a sequel to Mask of the Phantasm. WB/DC definitely hasn't forgotten it, even if action cartoons don't resemble BTAS anymore and see more influence from something like Avatar or Gravity Falls instead.
Looney Tunes: Been recently watching this guy's videos on LT's history, and it's been a fun series. Think Defunctland but with Bugs. (https://youtu.be/7sOglt59yh0) As for myself, I'm not sure. Part of me acknowledges how great these shorts are, another wants to be subversive and place something else at #1 to piss off old guard Komorowskiesque animation fans but I don't know what, and then there's the other side thinking "God, a lot of kids are going to have Space Jam 2 be their gateway into Looney Tunes".
To add to what I previously said about Hunter X Hunter 1999 being my preferred version of the series, I think it was really telling to see Totally Not Mark's blind reviews of all three versions of the series. He went through this story for the first time but compared and contrasted all three versions as he went through each arc, without any pre-conceived biases about which was the optimal version to experience. Almost every single time he brought up a direct comparison he noted how much more the 99 version had a feeling or authorship and personality to it that the 11 anime lacked. And he didn't shit on the current series, either, but noted how it didn't do much more than plainly adapt the manga, and since he was a viewer he tended to prefer reading over watching things that didn't end up being his preferred version of the story, whereas the 99 anime was interesting to him as an interpretation of the source material rather than a copy/paste. For my own thoughts, I like the 11 anime just fine, and don't meant to come off like it's bad in any significant way. However, I also can't deny that I never really feel the need to revisit it, whereas I have revisited several of my favorite moments of the 99 version over the past few years. If I ever want to go through a full arc again I tend to refer to the manga (which is better than many people give it credit for). While liking the 11 version is by far the most popular opinion on this series, I truly believe that it's because most people were introduced to this series through that version and either have not seen the 99 version or had their opinions influenced negatively on it by bad word of mouth by people who don't tend to care about anything other than directly adapting the source material without any artistic flourishes whatsoever. If we were to do this list again, I would make all of this abundantly clear in my write-up for the series and defiantly defend my stance on placing the 99 version over the 11 version.
Anyways, long tangent aside, here are a few more comments:
40. Fullmetal Alchemist- Agreed with Avaitor on this one. I believe we felt pressured to put this one one here given how popular of a choice it was and since it would generally be expected. If I've learned one thing since the time that we made this original list, it's that forcibly trying to meet other people's expectations rather than being true to your own opinion just doesn't work. It doesn't lead to an interesting list and an entry like that will feel hollow since nobody could write anything genuine about why they love the series. As far as I can recall, nobody involved with the original list was a particularly big fan of FMA to begin with (though if I'm wrong, by all means feel free to correct me), and it just didn't make sense to include it back then, and would make even less sense to include it now (and yes, that included Brotherhood as well). I think FMA is a well-made story that is fine for one read or watch depending on which version you pick. However, I have never felt a need to revisit it past that, and yes, I have read the entire manga and watched all of Brotherhood, so I've experienced the full story twice and it just doesn't impress me that much. If someone making the list really loves it and could write a passionate peace about it, then I'd be fine with keeping it, otherwise it could be left off if we were to do one now.
39. Batman: The Brave & the Bold- Admittedly, I haven't seen this show in several years, so I couldn't judge it's quality too accurately, but I adored it back when I watched it. I don't feel like I'd have any issues with it holding up on a re-watch, so I feel like it's placement is justified, but again, I couldn't say for sure. If I didn't have so many other series that I was mixed into at the moment, I'd be happy to give it a re-watch now. That said, I can only go based on memory for this one, and in that regard, I think it's pretty great.
38- The Spectacular Spider-Man- I re-watched this last year actually, sometime after Far From Home (which helped highlight a lot of my issues with that movie in retrospect) and I can confirm it holds up incredibly well. No joke, I'd actually put it higher on the list, myself. It also helps that it got a strange resurgence in discussion over the past few years, with several YouTubers highlighting why it was not just a great Spider-Man show, but one of the best superhero shows ever.
Think that resurgence is because SSM fans saw a Weisman show finally come back from the dead, and they think it's their turn even when Weisman himself said it would take a ton of legal bullshit to even consider bringing it back. And all the shows since. The 2017 cartoon was such a nothing show from the episodes I watched, and any good will USM got with age is flushed down the toilet now that that Spider-Man's VA is an admitted child groomer. Seen a lot of love for the 90s animated series too. Similar to the way the Raimi movies have been re-evaluated, Spidey fans have grown to laugh with the "SHOCKER!!! YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME!!! I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH!!!" moments than at them.
The funny thing is, Greg Weisman is normally a believer. He kept getting fans to support Young Justice until it got the renewal he thought was possible, and he's still pushing to get one of his Gargoyles spin-offs off the ground in some way. If he thinks that SSM can never return, you should listen to him.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 30, 2021, 06:59:43 PM
40. Fullmetal Alchemist- Agreed with Avaitor on this one. I believe we felt pressured to put this one one here given how popular of a choice it was and since it would generally be expected. If I've learned one thing since the time that we made this original list, it's that forcibly trying to meet other people's expectations rather than being true to your own opinion just doesn't work. It doesn't lead to an interesting list and an entry like that will feel hollow since nobody could write anything genuine about why they love the series. As far as I can recall, nobody involved with the original list was a particularly big fan of FMA to begin with (though if I'm wrong, by all means feel free to correct me), and it just didn't make sense to include it back then, and would make even less sense to include it now (and yes, that included Brotherhood as well). I think FMA is a well-made story that is fine for one read or watch depending on which version you pick. However, I have never felt a need to revisit it past that, and yes, I have read the entire manga and watched all of Brotherhood, so I've experienced the full story twice and it just doesn't impress me that much. If someone making the list really loves it and could write a passionate peace about it, then I'd be fine with keeping it, otherwise it could be left off if we were to do one now.
I dunno about a passionate piece, but I would without a doubt say that if any shounen made in the past 15 years deserves to be in a top 65 list, FMA would be one of them. I'm someone who's rather burnt out on shounen (modern ones anyway), but FMA is one of the few I can watch and enjoy on something beyond a nostalgic level.
American Dragon Jake Long - I don't have any real attachment or memories to this show, but between its contemparies, it certainly would deserve to get in over the ball of nothing that was Juniper Lee, or something as overhyped by its own creator like Danny Phantom. But as far as Disney shows go, I would put something more recent like Gravity Falls or Ducktales 2017 over it.
I mean, if it's something that you really genuinely loved, then I have no objection to it on the list. My whole point though was that most of us making the list didn't have strong feelings toward FMA and if we're including it just because it feels like we're supposed to it comes off as a hollow entry more than an honest one. For my purposes it's a good series with good world building and a good magic system but one that just never properly invested me into it's characters or story. Obviously, like all things, it's purely subjective.
Also, as far as shonen go I kind of find genre to be a moot point since I've come to judge stuff more on quality of execution than on what genre they're a part of, though looking at our list I don't think we even included that many traditional battle shonen on there.
In a modern list, I'd imagine more Madokas, March Comes in a Like a Lions, and Mob Psychos on the list. And some older shows that didn't make the original list, like Osamu Dezaki's work or Konaka's projects.
Going to respond to as much as I can here from Avaitor's original post! For the most part, I'm fine with completely overhauling the list, but there are a few that I definitely think deserve to stay on here. Also, I think Archer needs to be in at least the top 20 if not higher.
Quote from: Avaitor on June 29, 2021, 11:26:34 PM64- Baccano!
I'll be honest, while I really liked the series when I watched it ages ago, I rewatched the premiere a while ago and wasn't vibing with it at all. And I also had a hard time with Durarara, so maybe I'm just losing my touch with this kind of series. Am I crazy here? Do you think Baccano! is still higher tier?
It's a great show and I think it holds up really well but I'm willing to admit that it probably wasn't as excellent as I once thought. The soundtrack and art/animation are more notable than the rest of it to me these days.
Quote63- Excel Saga
Still my blindspot on this list lol. Sorry, Foggle! I do have the first 20 or so manga volumes waiting for me to read when I get the chance, though.
The anime absolutely does not belong on a list like this lol. I'd vouch for the manga being in top 10 comics or something but Excel Saga being on here at all was mostly just me being a dumb teenager.
Quote57- Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid
Yes.
Yes.
I'm fine with including the entire series (even though I still haven't seen IV), but I've tried to show multiple people season 1 and they bounced off it really hard, so I'm not sure how well that will fly. I also have to admit that outside of Gauron and the comfiness of the dub I find the original series kind of hard to watch these days myself.
Quote56- Courage the Cowardly Dog
Why was this so low? Honestly, it's better than a lot of the other CN originals from its time, and should be at least in the top 50.
Top 20 imo. Best original Cartoon Network's ever aired as far as I'm concerned, though the Eds definitely give it a run for its money.
Quote52- Paranoia Agent
Yeah, this should be higher. Rewatching this on Toonami last year was a treat. Possibly Satoshi Kon's defining work?
This should honestly be top 10. We need to give Kon the love he deserves.
Quote45- GTO
Man, I haven't thought of this one in ages, but this was a hoot when EK hooked me onto it! I also have a feeling that some people would have a problem with it nowadays, but they're probably wrong. Still, I may need to refresh myself on this to see where it should go.
While GTO can be a little uncomfortable to watch at times, I think that was always part of its charm. Definitely would raise more eyebrows today but I think it's fairly obvious that you aren't supposed to be rooting for the protagonist to fuck students. I have no qualms with it staying on here but if you guys want to remove it that's fine too.
Quote41- Johnny Bravo
I do really like Johnny, but I think this should go down a few spots. It's just not a very consistent show, but I'd still go to bat for it. There are enough episodes at every point of the series, even the the last series when Van Partible came back and cut out everything that was added during his time away. I think that I still like Johnny better than Dexter and maybe even Powerpuff, but I couldn't reasonably rank it above them.
This is definitely my third favorite Cartoon Cartoon but I also think it might be a show you had to be there for, like G1 Transformers and what have you. I love it a lot, and think it had some good lessons for kids at the time, but cutting it makes sense to me.
Quote38- The Spectacular Spider-Man
I need to ask... how do y'all still feel about Spectacular? I have such loving memories of the series, but I haven't watched any of it in ages. Is it still as good as we considered it to be when it was new? Or have our standards changed enough to knock it down. I should probably just shut up and put my Blu-Ray on...
It completely holds up for me. Just an all-around amazing show that I would consider ranking higher, but I think this is probably the right spot for it since it will never be concluded so it's lacking pay off in a lot of ways.
Quote36- Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law
I don't know how much of this has aged very well, honestly. "Bannon Custody Case" in particular makes me cringe- it's not just 10 minutes of "oh ho, the gays sure are funny, hint hint", but it's close to that, and there are other questionable episodes. But it's held up better than Sealab, I can say that much.
A few episodes can be a little cringe for sure, but I think it's really fucking funny to this day and will throw a hissy fit if it gets cut from the list. :P
Quote32- Dexter's Laboratory
Did we really put Dexter above PPG? Wasn't my call- believe it or not, this has always been one of my lesser favorites of the classic CN shows. Most of the other shows just did more for me, and I think most of those are of equal or higher quality. But I do think it's good to have this and PPG right next to each other. They both showed the potential the new Hanna-Barbera staff could live up to, and they're strong compliments towards each other.
Honestly, I don't think Dexter or PPG hold up particularly well for me. Not saying we should cut them, because they're classics, but they're definitely shows that play better in my memory than when I revisit them, like Johnny Bravo.
Quote31- Lupin III
A pretty fair ranking, I could see this go higher if anything. I know that some of Lupin's antics haven't aged all that well, but the earlier series are still highly entertaining, and the more recent ones have done a good job of contextualizing the characters and how they fit in relation to today. I'd like to keep them all together, but if we could only go with one series, I think it'd be neck and neck with the second and Fujiko Mine.
I would vote to move it to #25 at least. Lupin can be very hit and miss, but when you factor in all five parts and the Fujiko Mine series, it's one of the strongest cartoon runs ever made imo. I think Lupin's antics can easily be written off as products of their time, since even the most insufferable Twitter/Tumblr leftists seem to love the franchise. The Fujiko series does a lot of heavy lifting in that regard too.
Quote from: Avaitor on June 29, 2021, 11:26:47 PM
28-Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni
I'll... I'll come back to you guys on this one. I should hit up my Blu set of the series. But it does seem like this site's mutual love affair with the first two series has died down considerably over the years.
I think the first two seasons hold up pretty dang well, but there's also been so much garbage since then that Higurashi no longer belongs on this list. I still haven't watched the new season, not because I don't care for the series anymore (I still love it, honestly), but because I don't have any hope that it will be good or worthwhile.
Quote27- The Boondocks
I'm going to be brutally honest. I was an asshole in my teens and early 20's. To many people, some of which on this site. And I apologize. One thing I do feel bad about is how I enjoyed The Boondocks, and how I laughed at parts of the series that I shouldn't have. This came down to my own ignorance and superiority which I have no rights to claim.
Now when I watch the series, I recognize various bits that are meant to make non-Black viewers uncomfortable (a lot of which involves Ruckus), and while I no longer laugh at those parts, I respect the decisions behind why the strips and series was made. This is a very good series. Aside from the last season.
It's okay, I think we've all been there. I apologize too for acting in a similar way. That said, I believe Aaron McGruder is a genius for exactly this reason; The Boondocks deserves its place on our list and should maybe even be in the top 25.
Quote26- Invader Zim
Like Death Note, I think enough time has passed to make it easier to look past the Hot Topic crowd who devoured Zim in its heyday, and admire the show for what it is. Gir is a little cringey, yes, but I think it's still funny, and probably the last time Nickelodeon could be seen as edgy after Ren & Stimpy. If anything, the movie helped to remind me of what worked about the series.
I will revisit this series someday, or at the very least watch the movie, but I have such little resolve to because it only makes me think about my cringe middle school days. :il_hahaha:
Quote21- South Park
I think this is a good spot for the series, but I could see it going in the top 20 if talked into it. Personally, I don't like when it's the Randy Show, and I haven't had a taste for the series in a while, but I understand why it still resonates for so many. And I think the attacks Matt and Trey get from the left are a little unfair, and very tiresome.
South Park at its best is definitely one of the funniest shows of all time. I haven't watched any new episodes in years so I don't think I can really comment much on where it deserves to be. I can sort of see where people are coming from when they attack it for seeming reactionary, but for the most part I think their arguments really just reveal that they haven't actually watched it. I will say, though, that Mr. Garrison's Fancy New Vagina is fucking abhorrent on every conceivable level.
Quote17- Futurama
I feel like the Comedy Central seasons have ruined my enthusiasm for the series, as I never come back to it anymore. They really don't need to make any more of it, even though the crew seem to never stop trying to bring it back. I'd rank this lower nowadays, as a few other adult series have taken its place for me, but tell me how I'm wrong anyway.
I 100% agree. The first four seasons are masterpieces but the revival sapped a lot of my enthusiasm for it in the same way the Higurashi OVAs did. Unlike Higurashi, I think Futurama does deserve to still be on here, but at a lower position, or at least with the caveat that we only particularly care about the original series.
Quote11- Neon Genesis Evangelion
Ah, here's everyone's favorite (or least favorite) pretentious mecha normie weeb show. I'll be honest, I don't think that I could sit down and watch it again- I've seen it too many times and I've probably taken everything from it that I can. But I'm still pro-NGE, and think this is a good spot for it.
I will always vouch for NGE being high on this list, if only for EoE, which I think is one of the greatest films ever made.
Quote8- Cowboy Bebop
Bebop is still the anime to recommend to people who don't get anime for a reason. Sometimes I feel like it's lost a bit of its luster over the years, but I've been trying to rewatch it piece by piece lately and... nah, it's still good. Will very likely still be a top 10.
I don't care how normie this makes me, Cowboy Bebop is a timeless masterpiece and when I revisited it recently it was actually
better than I remembered it being. One of the most inspiring pieces of fiction of all time for me. It should be top 5.
Quote7- Ed, Edd n' Eddy
This was probably what I fought for the hardest, and surprise surprise, I'd still like to put the show in the top 10. This is more than just a childhood favorite though. HBO Max putting the show up has been a godsend, and I often put on a favorite episode when I need something to calm me down.
And it does bug me that it's appeared on so few of these lists. This is still among the most creative series ever made, and it deserves to at least have a seat on the table with the other considered greats. This is a hill I'll die on.
No objections from me, but wait, it's on Max now? Hell yes!
Quote6- Monster
Naoki Urasawa's manga is one of the best I've read ever, an unforgettable emotional thrill ride that's better plotted than most page turners you'll find. The anime adaptation is... one of the best manga I've ever read.
We fought to put Monster in the top 10, because we wanted to share the good word of the series when it seemed like it wasn't catching on all that well in the states. But let's be honest, while the series is perfectly competent, it's an indictment of the book report adaptation, as it doesn't really offer you anything you couldn't experience from the original manga. That, and the fact that Urasawa is a better seller stateside than we thought at the time, is enough reason to drop this version of Monster from the list entirely.
Yeah, much like Excel Saga, I would absolutely call Monster one of the greatest comics of all time, but the anime really has no business being on this list.
Quote2- Batman: The Animated Series
I think I've mentioned this before, but I do think we're seeing B:TAS lose its influence. Action cartoons aren't being made in its image as much, and the aesthetic is similarly being copied less often. I think Avatar is more of the template nowadays.
But at its best, no one does what Timm and co managed with this. Not even with their other shows.
Not sure where I'd put it these days, but definitely a top 15 series at least. Still the best western action cartoon I've seen... not that I've seen particularly many.
Quote1- Looney Tunes
Over the past few months, I've been putting on some Looney Tunes shorts when I'm having dinner, and it's always a good time. Whether I'm seeing Avery, Clampett, and Tashlin change how these cartoons handled comedic timing, or masterpieces from Freleng and Jones, these are still the kings of cartoons.
But if I was to do this again, they wouldn't rank here at all. I think we need to remove theatrical cartoons entirely from this list. Just to make it a little more balanced at least, as Looney Tunes, Mickey Mouse, Tom and Jerry, Popeye, no matter how strong these were, they weren't series in the same way everything else here is. Plus, we should see what would be the new king if we have to let Bugs retire the throne. Probably not The Simpsons.
100% agree with this.
I just noticed, but did we seriously not have Trigun on this list? What the actual fuck?
21. South Park- I don't know. It's clear that most people on this board aren't too fond of South Park, but I still contend that it deserves to be firmly within the top 20 on the list. Not only has it still maintained it's relevance, but I'd argue that a lot of older episodes still hold up, and while the recent stuff may not be to everybody's taste, it still clearly resonates with a sizeable audience (myself included). It always kind of felt like a double-standard to me that The Simpsons was forgiven for having more than half of it's run be fairly mediocre while South Park was arguably more consistent (at least for it's core audience).
20. Dragon Ball- I still love Dragon Ball. Partly out of nostalgia, sure, but also a lot because of it's genuine focus on humor and adventure. That said, I don't think that I could really justify it being so high on the list. If this were a comic book/manga list, it would be easier for me to make a case for it even being on the list. As it stands, though, it's a hard sell compared to so many other animated shows that could be up here.
17. Futurama- If we could allow for this to be specified as just the original FOX run of the show and exclude the Comedy Central seasons, then I could make the argument for this show still maintaining it's spot. If we have to include the CC run, though, then yeah, it'd demerit the show somewhat. Not enough to remove it from the list, but definitely knock it down from the top 20 spots.
16. Justice League/Unlimited- It's not perfect, and shouldn't be higher that TSSM at the very least, but I still love this show, so we could leave it or move it down a little and I would be fine with either option.
14. Gargoyles- I don't know, Avaitor. I've been re-watching this on Disney+ recently, and keeping in mind that TGC counts as a completely separate show, it still holds up damn well. I'd still push for this to be a top 10 contender.
11. Neon Genesis Evangelion- I haven't seen this in a decade, so I couldn't rightfully say whether it's place is justified or not, but if we are counting End of Eva as the true ending and excluding the originally aired final two episodes, I could see it still holding it's place, potentially.
And, I'll come back to the last few later.
I'm glad to see that I'm not totally crazy with my opinion on how the list mostly looks today. A lot of these series seem to be pretty timeless, at least to our age group, while others, like Higurashi, seem to tie this to the late aughts/early 10's, and others may not click with people who missed out on them, like Johnny Bravo.
We really should look into making a new list soon.
We should also probably post the rest of our video game list, even though that probably also needs a serious update.
Yeah, I also notice the double-standard in forgiving over 20+ subpar seasons of The Simpsons while being harsher on Futurama and South Park. The CC-era Futurama episodes at least had funny jokes even if the plots got stupid.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 01, 2021, 06:16:36 AM
I mean, if it's something that you really genuinely loved, then I have no objection to it on the list. My whole point though was that most of us making the list didn't have strong feelings toward FMA and if we're including it just because it feels like we're supposed to it comes off as a hollow entry more than an honest one. For my purposes it's a good series with good world building and a good magic system but one that just never properly invested me into it's characters or story. Obviously, like all things, it's purely subjective.
Also, as far as shonen go I kind of find genre to be a moot point since I've come to judge stuff more on quality of execution than on what genre they're a part of, though looking at our list I don't think we even included that many traditional battle shonen on there.
Gotcha. In that case I'd be fine with leaving it out of a top 65 list. Like I said I love FMA, but not quite enough to confidently put it on over other shows I feel are deserving, let alone write a passionate piece on why.
Quote from: Foggle on July 03, 2021, 12:08:02 AM
Quote32- Dexter's Laboratory
Did we really put Dexter above PPG? Wasn't my call- believe it or not, this has always been one of my lesser favorites of the classic CN shows. Most of the other shows just did more for me, and I think most of those are of equal or higher quality. But I do think it's good to have this and PPG right next to each other. They both showed the potential the new Hanna-Barbera staff could live up to, and they're strong compliments towards each other.
Honestly, I don't think Dexter or PPG hold up particularly well for me. Not saying we should cut them, because they're classics, but they're definitely shows that play better in my memory than when I revisit them, like Johnny Bravo.
While I think PPG should stay, I would 100% swap Dexter's out with Samurai Jack or even Clone Wars. Both were a lot more consistent on the whole, even with the former's weak final episodes in its final season. In general outside of Sym-bionic Titan, Gendy's action is a lot better than his comedies, and I think a new list should reflect that.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on July 03, 2021, 03:42:34 PM
Yeah, I also notice the double-standard in forgiving over 20+ subpar seasons of The Simpsons while being harsher on Futurama and South Park. The CC-era Futurama episodes at least had funny jokes even if the plots got stupid.
This is true. I think, combined, South Park probably has a season's worth of actually bad episodes, while Futurama is usually just boring at its worst. I would say both have much stronger overall runs than The Simpsons.
Quote from: Rynnec on July 03, 2021, 09:36:32 PM
While I think PPG should stay, I would 100% swap Dexter's out with Samurai Jack or even Clone Wars. Both were a lot more consistent on the whole, even with the latter's weak final season in the final half. In general outside of Sym-bionic Titan, Gendy's action is a lot better than his comedies, and I think a new list should reflect that.
Yeah, I can definitely agree with this.
Quote from: Rynnec on July 03, 2021, 09:36:32 PM
Quote from: Foggle on July 03, 2021, 12:08:02 AM
Quote32- Dexter's Laboratory
Did we really put Dexter above PPG? Wasn't my call- believe it or not, this has always been one of my lesser favorites of the classic CN shows. Most of the other shows just did more for me, and I think most of those are of equal or higher quality. But I do think it's good to have this and PPG right next to each other. They both showed the potential the new Hanna-Barbera staff could live up to, and they're strong compliments towards each other.
Honestly, I don't think Dexter or PPG hold up particularly well for me. Not saying we should cut them, because they're classics, but they're definitely shows that play better in my memory than when I revisit them, like Johnny Bravo.
While I think PPG should stay, I would 100% swap Dexter's out with Samurai Jack or even Clone Wars. Both were a lot more consistent on the whole, even with the former's weak final episodes in its final season. In general outside of Sym-bionic Titan, Gendy's action is a lot better than his comedies, and I think a new list should reflect that.
I'll third this. At the time we made this, I was pretty much over Samurai Jack, thinking that it was all style and no substance. That's not even false though, but what style it has! Now that I'm a little older and recognize much of Genndy's influences better than I did as a child or teen, I appreciate the show a lot more, and think that it deserves a solid spot here.
Speaking of which, I need to watch the back half of Primal.
I think you can make an argument for all of Genndy's shows to have a spot on the list, even Sym-Bionic Titan. They're all really different and good in standout ways. But Dexter probably would be the lowest-ranked if you were to judge it on a quality/quantity ratio. PPG should definitely rank over it - I find its last two seasons are still a mile better than Dexter's.