I've been wanting to do this thread for a while, and I've had a few of these thoughts going through my head lately, which is why I'm finally doing it now. There used to be something similar on tz, but that thread hasn't been posted in for a while.
Basically, this is a thread where you can talk about things related to the animation world that you don't see eye-to-eye on with the majority of people. It's not so much a "popular shows you don't like" thread, although you can touch on that if you want to as well. In fact, you can talk about shows or whatever you like that not everyone else does.
I'm going to start with a few myself. There's probably more I could do, but I'm in kind of a rush to head out tonight. To avoid repetition, I'm going to skip over things I've talked about before numerous times on here, like my views on South Park, Samurai Jack and Ren & Stimpy. I'm also not going to do any Disney ones for now, since I could dedicate a whole other post on my views on the studio.
- MLP has been getting on my nerves lately. And I don't mean just because of the fanbase. I always thought that it wasn't much more than just a little girl's show, just one that is admittedly better written than just about any other that had some funny moments. But even now, I think I agree with Thad 100% on his views on the show. The more I think about it, the more that every character seems to annoy me on the show in one way or another, except for maybe Fluttershy (even my other favorite, Pinkie Pie, has a gruesomely irritating voice).
What gets to me is how defensive the fans can be. I don't get when some people call it the funniest thing to happen to TV animation since the heyday of the Simpsons. It just isn't that entertaining. I still like how nice it can be while still having a sense of humor and some shades of a brain, but that's all it really has for me anymore. - Which reminds me, I don't get the supposed need for more good girl shows. I don't like the idea of separating genders by their shows like such. I think there should be more good gender neutral shows, instead of series aimed mostly for boys or girls.
- I think Adventure Time is better than Regular Show. That said, I can't get into either show.
I think all of my problems with AT became especially prevalent while watching the gender bender episode. Finn's obnoxious boyish attitude wears thin for me, and Jake isn't much help for me otherwise. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'd prefer if they were both girls all the time (I think the novelty would get stale for me after a while and I'd find reason to dislike Fiona and Cake soon enough), but I just don't particularly like the two as leads or find most of the humor that clever. Which is a shame, since I think the world they live in is really cool.
As for RS, to me it feels like the show exists just to create memes out of whatever lines they come up with for the show. I rarely get more out of it from what I've seen of it, even by watching the more recent episodes. - As much as I like Young Justice, I'm not anywhere near as impressed with it at this point as I was with Spectacular Spider-Man or Avengers during this part of their runs. In fact, it hasn't really done much different that Justice League, A: EMH or Greg's other shows has so far. I have a feeling that we'll be rewarded by the end of the season and he'll turn it into a very special show, but so far I don't really feel that way.
- I honestly think that if Rugrats ended a lot sooner in it's run that it could have been the best Nicktoon of them all. Better than Rocko. Better than Avatar. Better than Zim. Better than whatever else you can think of. Watching the first few seasons again, I think that they represent the very best of Nickelodeon and children's entertainment as a whole. Maybe if it ended after the original 65 episodes or even the first movie I would give it that distinction, but I can't.
Even if it ended with Rugrats in Paris, I would have given it more thought to be on our list, but it just got progressively dumber and less fun as it got along. It didn't have to, though. - I know that Insommy's probably going to post about his indifference towards the Looney Tunes due to hardcore fans feeling "entitled" or whatever, but I just want to say that I kind of feel that way about The Simpsons. I actually have for a while, but I haven't really talked about it. I still love the first decade or so of the show and I always will, but the thrill is gone and will probably never return. It mostly annoys me when I see people like simpsin or whoever talk about how awful the new episodes are. I'm not disagreeing with that, but it gets old after a while to see fans STILL complain about "zombie Simpsons".
This actually just came to mind when I went to Islands of Adventures with some of my friends this weekend and saw tons of Simpsons merch all around the park. I felt no reaction to seeing any of the character's faces, as opposed to when I saw things from various Marvel characters, Rocky & Bullwinkle or even Popeye. And that just saddens me the more I think about it.
^I know it might seem shocking, but I kind of agree with you on The Simpsons. I don't think I'll ever be able to say that I'm indifferent towards it, it's had way too much influence on my life for that, but I am rather burnt out on the show right now, even the classics. I'm sick of the mediocrity, I'm sick of Al Jean, I'm sick of "I am so smrt!", and I'm sick of people bitching about it. Right now what I'm trying to do is ignore it's existence entirely*, which was something I was doing quite successfully until the (admittedly pretty cool)John K couch gag and the labor dispute a few days later.
*I suppose I should tune in for the 500th episode and the eventual(snicker) finale, but unless something interesting happens, I don't give a fuck about the show.
- Yeah, you're right on Young Justice. I've found myself rather underwhelmed with the early episodes, and can barely bother staying home at 6:30 to watch the new ones.
- Actually don't hate Bronies, or even mind them in any case. I mean, the weirder ones are just the most vocal. Really, I find the people who go out of their way to keep saying how the show sucks to be more unpleasant to be around than the fans.
- Both Brotherhood and the original series pretty much have the same quality for me. I think the fans who idolize the former and lambast the 2003 series for not being faithful need to get a broom out of their ass.
- I like the Looney Tunes show. I honestly can't see a clear diminishing in humor between the shorts and this incarnation. That said, it has a lot of "meh" moments. But then again, there were a lot of "meh" Chuck Jones creations.
- Batman Beyond had one really good season, while the other two years have scattered jewels around a land of blandness.
- Even when I watched it for the first time, King of the Hill wasn't spectacular. It was dependable when everything else was becoming crap. Kind of like eating stuff at Burger King when every other restaurant's closed.
- Cartoon enthusiasts bitching at people for watching animation aimed at children just reeks of hypocrisy to me.
- Yes, Richard Williams was unfairly mishandled with when it came Thief and the Cobbler. But when you take decades to animate a film, the executives probably have a good reason to take it away.
*I agree on the Simpsons, and it's still a fantastic show, at least the first decade of it, but I haven't watched an episode in well over a year and don't feel the need to any time soon.
*At this point, I feel like the only person on the internet who REALLY likes Young Justice and doesn't think it's merely "okay".
*I actually hate MLP bronies and the haters quite alike, I think they both take away a lot of my enjoyment of the show, which is why I stay away from almost any discussion on the episodes short of here.
*I honestly can't stand 'bro' humor anymore. At this point it feels highly dated and samey to me, almost like That 70s Show only if it was made in the 80s without the irony and oblivious to the fact it was the 80s.
*Otaku are probably the most singleminded fans in all of animation. They drop series like flies the moment something else comes along, leaving the real fans like us to support pretty much everything that isn't generic shonen or moe.
*I agree with Avaitor on Rugrats, especially after rewatching it recently. They hammered that into the ground.
*I think I hate adult humor now. Recently, any animated show with adult humor has made me roll my eyes and change the channel. The irony of adult cartoons with extreme humor was funny back in the early 00s and now it feels like throttling a dead horse with a Camaro. I'd honestly rather watch something like MLP (pitchforks down, guys), or TB&TB which both seem to have a lot more thought and soul put into them. Crappy animation isn't funny any more, either. 1998 was a long time ago.
*I think Generator Rex is actually pretty good. Surprisingly, even. I think the show gets a bad rap because of Ben 10's general mediocrity.
* I don't know what anyone else thinks of this show, but I actually like the 1990s Pink Panther show.
I agree with Avaitor on Young Justice as well. I don't think its bad, but if you've been reading my comments on each episode, it feels very average in comparison to what we've seen of Weisman's work before. And the thing is, the problem isn't too many characters or complex plots that become convoluted or anything like that. Greg Weisman is a master of juggling various characters and brilliantly characterizing all of them and also including complex plots without making them seen convoluted or pretentious. He's clearly juggled many characters with Gargoyles and has also done complex stories with both that and TSSM. Young Justice on the other hand is very simple and really even when it does get more complex it doesn't really do it in a way that we haven't already seen before. The action scenes are spectacular, which is what I find to be the best thing about the show, honestly, but other than that it hasn't offered me anything as a viewer that I haven't already seen before done better in another action cartoon. Don't get me wrong, what's there is good, but its far off from great, which to me is below par by Wesiman's standards (of course I know there are a bunch of other writers for the show, but he is one of guys heading the story if I'm not mistaken).
Another unpopular opinion that I've always held regards Pixar. Now, of course I know that they have a bunch of talented people working there and they have churned out some undeniably great work over the years, but to me more than half of what they've done is highly overrated and over-glorified to the point of downright annoying me. Now, don't get me wrong, aside from Cars I haven't seen a film of their's that I would call downright bad, but stuff like Finding Nemo or The Incredibles, among others, are just barely average IMO, yet they are treated like such high-class masterpieces. With Finding Nemo, I considered it to be a "cute" little story of father looking for lost son, but that's it. There wasn't really anything deeper to it than that, but people act like it does that sort of tale in such a sophisticated way when it really doesn't. Its just an average animated film, IMO. Meanwhile, I'll be honest in that while I can acknowledge it as a good film for those who like it, I personally don't care for The Incredible at all. I couldn't identify with any of the characters and didn't even really like or care about any of them. I personally hated the art-style of the film, and I felt that the jokes were just as bland and half-baked as a mediocre Dreamworks film. I could pick apart some of their other movies as well, but as far as Pixar is concerned, there are very few films of their's that I feel actually really deserve their level of hype and praise.
I guess I have more opinions which I will share later. I actually like the idea of this thread because it lets people go off about what their disagreements with the mass majority on opinions regarding animation, but in an acceptable manner without serving as flame-bait or giving rise to any local forum controversy. Its a nice way to talk about stuff that bugs you that you normally wouldn't mention. Great idea posting this thread, Avaitor. :thumbup:
Building off Pixar and sticking with Disney, I haven't really enjoyed an animated Disney show in... I think a decade. Though I have liked a number of their films, their TV animation department is currently the worst in the business by far. Their shows feel generic both in style and humor, and any of them could be on CN of Nick and nobody would even bat an eye. Phineas & Ferb also suffers from this problem, and is quite highly overrated by the fanbase- When you have fans praising a memory wipe episode, you know there's something off. Whoever is in charge needs to lose their job or get demoted or something, because Disney's crown jewel and bread & butter has always been their animation. To see it fall so very far is embarrassing.
Apparently liking Doug is a sin for some reason, however I still enjoy this show from watching it on the 90's Are All That block. It's still the same show I loved when I was a kid and I still like Doug's crazy imagination. Have no opinion on the Disney version since it's been a while since I saw it.
I still enjoy Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Really, I still do and love to watch the repeats whenever I can. I can agree that most of the characters are jerks and all, but that's what makes it work for me. I just love the things Master Shake does and says. My favorite moment will still be the episode where he was in tree court and made things even worse.
I still watch the Cleveland Show, even though out of the MacFarlane animation output it's my least favorite.
I don't care for Young Justice all that much personally. I enjoy it, and try to watch an episode whenver it airs, but I'm not really invested in it.
As much as I liked Sym-bionic Titan, and think its cancellation was entirely unfair. I feel that its a bit overrated. It certainly isn't the best Super Robot show.
I really don't care much for the recent 80's reboots (Transformers Prime, GI Joe Renegades, and Thundercats) something about them just feels bland to me (and in GI Joe's case, I never cared much for it outside of Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow).
I'm really not as hard on generic shounen or Moe shows as most other non-loser Otaku are. As long as I enjoy the fights, and the characters, then I'm good.
I actually enjoyed what I've seen of X-Men Evolution more than what I've seen of the 90's cartoon.
Sonic Satam is overrated as all hell by its fanbase. And I feel that the games have infinitely superior characers and storylines (most of the time). The fact that Sonic 3 & Knuckles' awesome story never got an animated adaptation is such a shame.
So, I've said this before but I believe it fits here as well:
I think that Batman: The Animated Series is "kind of" overrated. Now hold on; before you all get your pitchforks out I fully agree with it being one of the best animated series of all-time....from an influential stand-point. Hell, its still one of the best action cartoons of all-time, regardless, and its still a great show in general (I mean, I wouldn't have written for it on our top 65 list if I didn't agree with its deservedly high placement on our list). So then why do I say its slightly overrated?
Well, to me its because of how people also let nostalgia get the better of them and that combined with the fact that the show is genuinely good makes people blindly believe that it can't be topped. One thing that bugged me about Doug Walker's video of his top 20 favorite TV shows was how he said that no other show after this was successful at creating a suitably dark tone and often-times when they tried to do that it felt forced as if they were pale imitators of what BTAS achieved. That's just pure biased BS, IMO. BTAS is great, no question, and thanks to it so many series could jump from being boringly kid-friendly to actually introducing kids to complex plots with mature themes and characters. In that regard its a gateway title that really changed cartoons as we know them. However I hate this notion that so many fans of the show have that the series is some how a gold standard which can't be topped by anything and never will be. Because it was so influential, other shows were able to take after it and create great stories of their own, and for that it'll always be the most important action cartoon of all time, but why the hell do some people act like its blasphemy to think that anything out there that came after it could possibly be even just a little bit better than it?
I'll be flat-out honest, I think that Gargoyles is a better show. I think it managed to take what was great about BTAS and surpass it at its own game. Only slightly, mind you, but still noticeably enough. It was just as dark but also far more consistent and had a very well strewn-together story and characters, overall.
That's the other thing that I don't like about certain BTAS fans (I say "certain" because I'm a fan myself, and so are other people here, but I'm talking about the biased ones), in that I hate how they act like the show is perfect and imperveous to any criticism. The series has a number of a weak episodes and some questionably bad ones in its run, and its not like every episode it ever done was pure gold. Not every episode of it was as emotionally gripping as Heart of Ice (not even most of them, for that matter), or as in-depth as I Am The Night. It still had its mix of mediocre episodes as well. So, for all of the great things it has going for it, its still not perfect.
I guess all I'm trying to say here is that, while BTAS is an undeniably great series (and like I said, I'm a fan so it'd still easily make my own personal top 10 list), I really hate how there seem to be so many fans who treat anyone who dares to say otherwise like an idiot. And by otherwise I mean something as slight as having an opinion on some other action cartoons or superhero shows that one might thing managed to surpass it to any degree. That's just the way I feel, anyways. If I were to be perfectly honest I think that TSSM is my favorite superhero show by a bit, but like I said taking my gripes aside I still find BTAS to be be worthy of most of its praise and its still an amazing show, even if some people overrate it to the point of acting like nothing else is good in comparison to it.
While I can see the appeal of "Adventure Time", I can never get into it. I'm not a big fan of the art style, which is odd because I'm very big on minimalist styles (hell, look at my own drawings). But AT bugs me for some reason. I love "Regular Show", though.
However, I don't see the appeal of "Phineas and Ferb". I respect Swampy and Povenmire for their work on "Rocko", but I find their show to be annoying. To me it's just another asinine kids show.
Quote from: SNES Chalmers on November 09, 2011, 08:42:42 PM
*I suppose I should tune in for the 500th episode and the eventual(snicker) finale, but unless something interesting happens, I don't give a fuck about the show.
That's what I'm doing too.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on November 09, 2011, 08:44:03 PM
- Batman Beyond had one really good season, while the other two years have scattered jewels around a land of blandness.
I'd actually agree with this, and I think I've posted about it before. The first season is probably the most consistent of any DCAU show, but the second had too many lame school-based plots and weird science fiction-influenced arcs that weren't any special, while the good ones were harder to find in retrospect. Season 3 was an improvement, but still wasn't on the level on the first season.
Quote from: Rynnec on November 09, 2011, 11:00:00 PM
As much as I liked Sym-bionic Titan, and think its cancellation was entirely unfair. I feel that its a bit overrated. It certainly isn't the best Super Robot show.
I really don't care much for the recent 80's reboots (Transformers Prime, GI Joe Renegades, and Thundercats) something about them just feels bland to me (and in GI Joe's case, I never cared much for it outside of Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow).
I actually enjoyed what I've seen of X-Men Evolution more than what I've seen of the 90's cartoon.
Completely agreed with these 3. Granted, I haven't really been watching too many 80's reboots, but I'm just sick of the fad as a whole. It really seems to me that we're going back to that decade in animation, since it seems like just about every series that is being made is either a remake of an older series or an interpretation of a pre-existing franchise. Original ideas in kids shows, at least particularly good ones, are becoming fewer and fewer as of late.
Quote from: Rynnec on November 09, 2011, 11:00:00 PM
Sonic Satam is overrated as all hell by its fanbase. And I feel that the games have infinitely superior characers and storylines (most of the time). The fact that Sonic 3 & Knuckles' awesome story never got an animated adaptation is such a shame.
After watching SatAM recently, I do think that it doesn't hold up as well as some fans believe it to (granted, I can't fucking stand Jaleel White as Sonic or his "mondo writing", but I can blame the show for that) and isn't that great of a show. I still have attachments to the characters on the show though, if only for the comics, which I find far superior. Even Antoine, who pissed me off to no end in the show, gets some fair development in the comics when he gets a sword and gets over Sally by dating Bunnie.
Oh, here's another-
Building off on my comments on Adventure Time and Regular Show, I hate the new TV-PG standard on CN. Those two are really the only ones to use it besides for MAD and parts of Titan when it was on, but I find it annoying when these shows use minor swear words only for the shows to seem "edgy". And honestly, a lot of other shows that have the rating on the network don't even do anything to earn one (TLTS and Young Justice, I'm looking at you).
It seems like they're adding the rating to just about every show on the channel to make them look naughtier or something than what's on Nick and Disney in hopes that kids tune in, and it doesn't look to be working as well as they'd hope. I wouldn't even mind that if they weren't so obnoxious about it either.
And I've written about this before, but I still stand by my belief that As Told By Ginger could be a great show at times, but just steered too close to mediocre or average for the majority of its run. The creator seemed quite into it, but I think she made too many "safe" episodes for its own good.
Heh, EK's Pixar post makes me want to expand on it and go into my own thoughts on them and Disney. I would but I have class in about a half hour and don't have the time to. I would probably skip my opinion on their animated series, since I've gone so far into them as of late, but I have tons of things to say about the studio.
Why stop and BTAS and Batman Beyond? I think the entire DCAU minus Superman is at least a little overrated in some aspects. I love pretty much every show there, but they all have their faults. Superman just gets looked down on for being Superman despite being every bit as good as the other shows.
Quote from: Daxdiv on November 09, 2011, 10:59:15 PM
Apparently liking Doug is a sin for some reason, however I still enjoy this show from watching it on the 90's Are All That block. It's still the same show I loved when I was a kid and I still like Doug's crazy imagination. Have no opinion on the Disney version since it's been a while since I saw it.
Agreed. As usual, since a popular internet figure has declared his dislike for something, everyone must jump on the hate train. Doug may not be the best thing Nick ever aired, but it's still a unique show with tons of charm. I'm saying this as someone who barely remembers it and watched a bunch of it recently. The show is still fun to watch.
Oh, Justice League is incredibly inconsistent. I could go on all day about what works and what doesn't for the show. And S:TAS doesn't really pick up for me until the last volume of the show. Beforehand, it's either too much of a villain-of-the-week show for me or uses Lex too much. It's admittedly more consistent than the other 3 of the main DCAU shows though.
As for Doug, I loved it as a kid, but it doesn't hold up for me all that much and I've thought this before NC's review of Doug's First Movie. That said, it really isn't fair to hold the Nick and Disney versions in the same light since there's a major difference in quality between the two, but it seems like some people do.
I don't even remember the Disney version at all. Didn't they have one episode based on anorexia or something? That should about say it all.
Also, you all know this, but I don't "get" Beavis & Butthead. Yes they're based on idiots in the 90s who really existed, yes they're dumb, and yes they make fun of dumb stuff. But I don't think the writing is all the good, and their voices get on my nerves after about five minutes. As far as anything Mike Judge has ever done, it's probably my least favorite just because it relies too much on "getting it" compared to anything else he's done.
As for other 90s shows, I enjoy TTA way more than Animaniacs on average, but I don't know if that's a popular opinion or not.
Quote from: Desensitized on November 10, 2011, 11:58:52 AM
I don't even remember the Disney version at all. Didn't they have one episode based on anorexia or something? That should about say it all.
Yeah they did. I think the episode ended with some hot line number and/or website you could call/visit or something for more info about the episode. It felt weird seeing that episode when I was young.
I still try to separate Disney's and Nick's Doug since the quality is clearly different.
QuoteAs for other 90s shows, I enjoy TTA way more than Animaniacs on average, but I don't know if that's a popular opinion or not.
Most people seem to hold Animaniacs as the best thing in the Silver Age, so I'll give you this one. Everyone seems to clamor more to A! than TTA.
I try to enjoy those direct-to-videos. I can tolerate the Barbie movies. Some of them are actually pretty good. As long as they aren't cloned versions of the original (cough Bambi II). Scared Shrekless has some decent references even though many of the other jokes are redundant with the movies.
I have a soft spot for Beavis and Butthead because they popularized channel surfing commentary along with MST3K. Before then you'd have to go watch the Rocky Horror Picture Show. The cartoon part is alright, but Mike Judge definitely gets to do more with characters from King of the Hill, but I'd still find myself quoting stuff from the 1990s series, and early Simpsons episodes.
I also like some of those kids animations like Wonder Pets and Peep and the Big Wide World.
And I like Key Animation, despite what the overwhelming majority of folks here.
The only cartoons I'm watching right now are Archer and Fate/Zero. And I'm only watching Fate/Zero because my friend loves F/SN (it's a damn good action series, though).
To be honest, I don't really care much for or about animation anymore.
Quote from: Avaitor on November 10, 2011, 09:08:27 AM
I'd actually agree with this, and I think I've posted about it before. The first season is probably the most consistent of any DCAU show, but the second had too many lame school-based plots and weird science fiction-influenced arcs that weren't any special, while the good ones were harder to find in retrospect. Season 3 was an improvement, but still wasn't on the level on the first season.
I'm sort of the weird one here, but I actually disagree with the both of you. Well, I do agree that we got some weird episodes in season 2 and that the show started gearing towards more school-based plots which I guess on a more objective level is kind of stupid, but you know what. I liked it. I don't care what anyone else says, but when something is entertaining its still the result of good writing and effort, and as far as I'm concerned Batman Beyond was mostly consistent in being entertaining. I'm currently in the middle of season 2 right now as I'm re-watching the series, and personally I don't think its any less entertaining than season 1, and there are still dark episodes in there, so its not like it totally went into high-school centered plots. Either way, though, we put it on our top 65 list so I think we can all at least agree that some part of it is good or at least decent.
I realize that it's a classic and one of the first (I think) "chase-cartoons", but personally, I've never cared much for Tom & Jerry; any versions of it. I remember the shorts being a decent way to kill a few minutes when I was a kid and couldn't think of anything else to do, but I doubt I'll ever understand why the cat's and mouse's escapades are generally held in such high regards (historical importance?).
Of course, this could've something to do with the fact that I largely prefer my humor to be verbal rather than slapstick. I like Looney Tunes though.
* As much as I love MLP, the obsessive fanbase that can't accept that someone dislikes the show gets on my nerves. No show is for everyone and MLP is no exception. Also, bronies needs to stop saying Lauren Faust created The Powerpuff Girls and Foster's. She played a big role in those shows for sure but she didn't create them.
On the same hand, I also hate the MLP haters that are flat out enraged that grown men are enjoying a "little girl's cartoon". I don't know how many times I've seen little blog articles pop up from people who have never seen the show before thinking we all must be sexually repressed homosexuals who grew up in father-less homes and that liking this show is a sign of the downfall of America.
* I'll also chime in and say that Sonic SatAM is overrated. And I enjoy the show. But it's not something that would put on a TOP 10 ANIMATED SERIES of all time list or anything. It's also very dated, mostly due to Jaleel White's dialogue.
* I know it gets a lot of hate but I enjoyed the Majin Buu saga in Dragonball Z. I didn't see what made it any more ridiculous or silly than any other saga in the show.
* I think Tangled got more praise than it deserved. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but hearing how everyone was going on about it being DISNEY'S TRIUMPHANT RETURN THE BEST DISNEY MOVIE EVER I was expecting a little bit more. What I got as an entertaining movie with great animation but not something I'm going to shout praise for on the roof tops.
* Samurai Jack was, to me, the very definition of a cartoon that was all style and no substance. I found just about every episode boring and all the characters, with the exception of Aku, uninteresting. I can only watch montages of Jack running across fields so many times before I get tired of it. I never understood all the praise this show got.
* I never really cared for Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends. I'm not sure why, I just couldn't get into it. I enjoyed a few of the episodes and I liked the characters of Wilt and Frankie but the show as a whole just wasn't my thing. Bloo might have been a big reason because he was just an unlikable asshole.
Quote from: Eddy on November 13, 2011, 12:01:02 PM* I know it gets a lot of hate but I enjoyed the Majin Buu saga in Dragonball Z. I didn't see what made it any more ridiculous or silly than any other saga in the show.
Well, I should point out that I absolutely love that arc in the manga. In the manga is a huge tribute to Dragon Ball's early days, what with it being focused more on magic and mysticism than on sci-fi elements or space, being far more gag-oriented and not taking itself too seriously most of the time, and just the fact that it made a character like Vegito possible makes it awesome alone (its pretty rewarding to see Goku and Vegeta team up like that after having been rivals for the entire series). That said, in the anime my problem is that they try to play it out to be more serious which is why it feels more ridiculous than it should (which was OK for me when it wasn't taking itself too seriously in the manga, but feels awkward in the anime), and also that the anime dragged that arc out to be nearly a hundred episodes when it only took up a few volumes in the manga. It has its high points, I guess, but I felt that it suffered most from pacing. Still, in terms of the manga I would actually say that Buu is my favorite arc from the 2nd half of the series.
Quote* Samurai Jack was, to me, the very definition of a cartoon that was all style and no substance. I found just about every episode boring and all the characters, with the exception of Aku, uninteresting. I can only watch montages of Jack running across fields so many times before I get tired of it. I never understood all the praise this show got.
I agree with you 100% on this. I'll never be able to understand what people love so much about this series.
Okay, it's Disney time.
- I think Pixar is a bit overrated. They make some wonderful films, but not every film is a masterpiece IMO, and I resent it when certain movies of theirs win awards over other certain animated films that I think deserve more praise. I notice that a handful of people turn against them during award season, but I feel like this all year long.
- I don't hate any DAC movies, or even any of Pixar's. They all have their merits that make for special products and should be celebrated as such. Although I can understand why doing that for some of them can be a pain (Chicken Little, Home on the Range, the Cars movies)
- I prefer Princess and the Frog to Tangled. Better leads, more fun villain, and arguably more memorable music. To me, Tangled felt like Menken was phoning it in throughout most of the whole thing. Meanwhile, I was admittedly skeptical of Randy Newman's score for PATF, but came out surprised at how many of the songs I liked and found the soundtrack to be quite effective most of the time. Not every song was killer, but it had a bigger soundtrack, and I can still recall just about every song there as opposed to Tangled.
I think Tangled gets a couple of points for having a brisker running time and more fun sidekicks, but even then, I really liked Ray and Charlotte. - As much as I like both of these films however, in the Disney canon, they're not too special. They tread too close to the Renaissance films without doing anything too special or innovative to stand up on their own, as opposed to when Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast and Lion King came out.
- Sadly though, we're never going to get great films from Disney like we did in Walt's time or during the Renaissance, since the climate just isn't there anymore. The creative minds that made the 90's films we all love have either left or want to just repeat past successes, and the new minds have no idea what made these movies great.
- I think that Disney's recent announcement to take a break from telling fairy tales is a good idea. I think they've touched on that type of story so many times that they should focus on others instead. Besides, I'd rather have another Lion King than another Beauty and the Beast.
- As you can tell, I actually prefer their animal films to their fairy tales. I'm kind of burned out on them, tbh, and it gets annoying when the only Disney movies that people can remember are the princess ones and TLK. I get as much if not more enjoyment from Dumbo, Bambi and Lady and the Tramp than I do from say, Cinderella or Mulan.
- That said, if Bolt is any indication to the type of animal films they'd try to make today, I'm not so sure if I want another one. It's a decent enough movie, but more Pixar Lite than a Disney classic.
- On an objective level, Snow White isn't one of Disney's best, but I don't think it's overrated either. I think that it's hard to fault it too much since it is the first of its kind, and Walt and crew were still fixing the kinks on how to turn a storybook into a worthwhile feature film, and for the most part, I think that they succeed. Later films have more interesting characters and effective twists, but the ambition and craft is still there even at an early age.
- Pinocchio, however, is a tad overrated.
- Mickey gets a bum rap today, but I think that he's a good character. True, I prefer Donald and think that Goofy had funny cartoons, but even at the later points of his theatrical run, Mickey was still fun and endearing. I greatly prefer Floyd Gottfredson's comic strips to any Mickey cartoon, though.
- The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad is one of the studio's best, most overlooked classics. Two great stories for the price of one. What more could one ask for?
I'm not sure if we're allowed to include anime in this thread, but I figured it'd be better than starting a whole new thread just for that:
-I think that almost any anime that comes out these days is utter crap. Sure, I haven't seen close to everything, but just from looking at their uninspired plots alone, anime just sucks in general these days, aside from maybe the occasional series which can maybe be decent at best. I know that some people would argue that there have always been bad anime and we only remember the good ones, which is true, but it doesn't mean that there are really that many good anime these days.
-Kyoto Animation is overrated beyond belief. Aside from the 2 Full Metal Panic! series that they did, I've never understood the appeal of anything else that they have ever done. I don't really get why they're so popular.
-For as hyper-active and over-the-top it is, I think that TTGL is just plain boring more than anything else. I'm actually not that annoyed by its characters or its absurdity, but rather I just feel that beyond that it has very little substance to actually keep it entertaining, which oddly enough is my personal biggest problem with it.
-I actually don't think that the 2nd arc of Death Note was a total bust, at all. Its not as good as the first arc, but personally I actually really like it since it still keeps me entertained quite a bit. Also, I love the ending to the series. To me it makes up for any shortcomings that I did find with the 2nd arc.
-I don't really think that the original Japanese voice acting for Dragon Ball and DBZ is really that great. Its not bad, and I can tolerate the female voice for Goku just fine, but aside from a few exceptions here and there, it sounds pretty average on the whole. I think that the dub for Kai has much more engaging voice-acting (though I do fully acknowledge that all of the old dub's are garbage).
-After having re-watched good chunks of both series, I think I prefer Trigun to Cowboy Bebop. I respect Cowboy Bebop as one of the most prominent and influential anime, especially in the West, but I feel that Trigun is just flat out more entertaining and has a more more likable and interesting lead character.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 13, 2011, 03:27:59 PM
I'm not sure if we're allowed to include anime in this thread, but I figured it'd be better than starting a whole new thread just for that:
Oh yeah, it's fine. I don't see the point of separating anime with other kinds of animation, so feel free to post about Japanese animation here as well.
I just couldn't think of any confessions of my own regarding anime.
Disney's problem is playing it too safe. They went all out for TLM, The Lion King, B&TB, and Aladdin, and the reason none of their later films couldn't capture that spark was because they were too safe and by the numbers. You could argue the former movies were, but you'd have to keep in mind the time in which they were released the elements that seem overused now were not then. TP&TF is a great start, but it's only that; a start. They need to push harder again in order to achieve the heights they once reached.
Disney should try for more action-adventure animated films. Not only would it be a breath of fresh air, it would also arugably appeal to a wider audience. Apparently they tried doing this with Tangled, but from what I hear that was mostly just marketing.
I'd love to see that. If we get something that's on par with Treasure Planet, it would be even better.
As for my confessions, the only one that comes to mind is that Madoka Magica is an absolute disappointment. It had the potential to be good and I had high hopes because Shaft had a pretty strong crew behind it, but they blew it and made what essentially amounts to Kamen Rider Ryuki with forced drama and even worse pacing.
While I wouldn't say that it's a dissapointment, I will agree that it definitely could have been fleshed out a lot more (Homura's backstory especially).
Quote from: Rynnec on November 13, 2011, 09:34:45 PM
While I wouldn't say that it's a dissapointment, I will agree that it definitely could have been fleshed out a lot more (Homura's backstory especially).
Yeah, while I thought it was good, it definitely needed to have some more elements established. Hope the movies can do the job.
If they can do it right, I'd love to see it. Their previous attempts at movies like that, such as Atlantis and The Black Cauldron, were more conflicting than anything. Apparently Musker and Clements were going to do a movie based off of Mort from the Discworld series, but they bailed on that and might do Snow Queen instead. It's a shame, but at least that might be good.
And the difference between the Renaissance films and the classics (well, one difference) is that the Renaissance films were made as musicals by fans of musicals while Walt's films had music in just cause. Seriously, the only reason Snow White had songs is because a lot of successful movies at the time had musical sequences and they weren't sure if they had enough story to fill up a full film without some diversions. It turned out that the songs added to the story and characters, so they started writing numbers in all of their films. While you could maybe consider Snow White a musical, calling most of the other films made in Walt's time one would be a stretch.
Meanwhile, Eisner and Katzenberg called in Howard Ashman and Alan Menken after really liking Little Shop of Horrors to add some songs into The Little Mermaid, you know, for tradition. After talking to them and hearing some of what they got, they ruled the film and the rest of the animation department. Suddenly, it became a full-fledged musical and for the next decade, that's all that the rest of the studio wanted to make.
But this thread isn't here for history lessons. The point is that the Renaissance films did bring new things to the table from the originals, while still sticking to a lot of what made those movies good. PATF and Tangled are just riding off on the Renaissance films. I mean, they're good, but nothing too special when you consider it.
That might've been a good thing since Discworld's humor relies on the narration by quite a bit. It's rather difficult to see that translated onto the screen, which previous adaptations have failed to do, IMO.
Shame, though. Would've been fun hearing Christopher Lee reprise DEATH and either Colin Morgan or Rupert Grint or whatever play Mort.
Spectacular Spider-Man isn't good.
Legion Of Super-heroes is on par with the best of Justice League, has less bad episodes and should have been more popular than Teen Titans and never cancelled.
Animaniacs and Tiny Toons bore me to tears. Except Pinky & The Brain, of course.
I've been sick of Scooby (not counting Zombie Island AT ALL) for so long. But like I predicted, I think nostalgia is making me come back around to the show. I liked watching the beginning of the puppeteer episode last week.
Bas Rutten should be the one and only live action face of CN. Google him and my bias will be understood in seconds.
I never got to appreciate the greatness of Peter Cullen and Steven Jay Blum on Toonami. It's embarassing how long it took me to realize, "Oh shit, that's Optimus Prime." In fact, I didn't realize it, I found it out when someone on freaking youtube said it. Cartoon Network used to spoil us.
Toonami lost it's magic the second it let shows from other blocks (including the best cartoon ever, Samurai Jack) on it. I like the exclusive club or whatever feeling they had even though that's not completely true.
Toonami should come back and have its top anime shows (YYH, Outlaw Star, RK, etc.) be shown and then the exact same episodes been shown semi-uncut on Adult Swim. This would only be considered an unpopular opinion because people would think it's too much of the same but the kids need to be exposed to good anime without having us suffer.
Ahhh Real Monsters is boring.
Doug and Arnold are boring goody two shoes characters while their fantastic casts make up for that.
I thought Doug was a punkass for not wanting to fight in his anti-violence episode. (Arnold's version of that episode was hilarious though. One of my favorites.)
I've been really watching the show a lot for the last few weeks and gotta say that Johnny Bravo is put into too many situations where he's the lost member of Looney Tunes. He should be womanizing more. there, I said it.
Nicktoons barely had any good cartoons. Maybe like 3.
Foster is one of the most absolute boring cartoons ever made. Pretty much started the dark age of CN for me.
I never even knew Peter Cullen was Optimus Prime when Toonami was on. For me, Optimus was always Gary Chalk. Only until the movie came out did I actually get that connection.
So yeah, that's probably my other unpopular opinion, that Chalk > Cullen and Kaye > Welker.
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 15, 2011, 11:36:56 AM
I never got to appreciate the greatness of Peter Cullen and Steven Jay Blum on Toonami. It's embarassing how long it took me to realize, "Oh shit, that's Optimus Prime." In fact, I didn't realize it, I found it out when someone on freaking youtube said it. Cartoon Network used to spoil us.
Heh, I think most of us were too young to make that connection. I didn't realize it until just before the block ended myself. Which is funny since I actually watched G1 as a kid.
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 15, 2011, 11:36:56 AMToonami lost it's magic the second it let shows from other blocks (including the best cartoon ever, Samurai Jack) on it. I like the exclusive club or whatever feeling they had even though that's not completely true.
To me, it started to head south around the time they put Hamtaro and Powerpuff Girls on. I love PPG and I'll admit to watching some of Hamtaro, but neither show had any right to air there. The block was still watchable then, but that's when anything became fair game.
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 15, 2011, 11:36:56 AMDoug and Arnold are boring goody two shoes characters while their fantastic casts make up for that.
I agree myself. Later Arnold at least. Rewatching season 1 of HA! on DVD, I think I really like Arnold when he was a daydreaming every kid. When he gets whitewashed later on in the show, he isn't anywhere near as fun.
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 15, 2011, 11:36:56 AM
Foster is one of the most absolute boring cartoons ever made. Pretty much started the dark age of CN for me.
You know, we used to argue about this on tv.com a bit, but I agree with you now to an extent. I can't stand the show anymore.
Old unpopular opinion: What's the appeal of those Seth McFarlane cartoons again?
I gotta admit. After rewatching Foster's and some of the later PPG episodes, I honestly don't feel like Lauren Faust having left MLP will do that much damage. After all, the two episodes she wrote were the least well-received.
Well... I guess I'll give this a go...
-I hate Ren & Stimpy. Hate it. In my honest, unabashed opinion, nearly each and every last bit and piece of this show is fucking terrible, and I find absolutely little to no enjoyment in it anymore whatsoever. I tried catching up on it again a while ago with the DVD's, and I'm just taken back at how many people continue to hold this show atop some golden pedestal of unflawed excellence (namely, the John K. era, which I only find marginally better than the rest). Oh, sure, it has its moments, just like any other show (Stimpy's Invention still got a few good laughs out of me), but I really couldn't believe how much I've grown to detest this show over the years. I just... don't like it, and I'm really starting to wonder why so many people consider this to be such a classic. Still drinking that John K. Kool-Aid, I suppose.
-I'm sure I'll take some heat for this, but... I was never really into Dexter's Lab, and to a certain extent, I'm still not. Don't get me wrong; I like it enough, and it's generally enjoyable with its fair share of brilliant moments (anything with The Justice Friends is pure gold)... but honestly, as a kid, I think I liked pretty much every other show on CN more than it (besides the bad crap, ala Mike Lu & Og, or what have you), and even still do today. The Eds, Johnny Bravo, PPG... hell, I even like Cow & Chicken more. It' just... I dunno, really, that's just the way I feel about it. Sometimes it seems to get a little too slow my tastes, the writing can really feel like it's in a lull at times, and of course, those last few seasons with Chris Savino in place of Tartakovsky were absolute garbage. Again, I like it enough, yes, but I'm just not as huge a fan of it as some people are.
-Animaniacs is easily the LEAST enjoyable of all the WB Silver Age productions. I put it even further down the line than Histeria (if my username wasn't obvious enough, I like Histeria, and I don't care what anyone thinks). I've come to the point now where I don't even think I like it anymore, and I just fail to see why so many people (ranging from Doug Walker, to just about every single WB animation buff on TZ) rate this damn show so highly. Pinky & The Brain was infinitely better; the characters are better (Pinky and The Brain are SO much more likeable than the Warner siblings), the writing is better, it's FUNNIER... honestly, P&TB was BY FAR the superior show, but for whatever reason (whether it's because it's a spin-off, or what I don't know), it doesn't get nearly the credit that Animaniacs does, and I just don't get it. And don't let me stop there; TTA, Freakazoid, and yes, even Histeria... all shows that I enjoy far more than I enjoy Animaniacs.
I could get into my laundry list of reasons for not really caring for it -- the stale writing, the cast of thousands angle that is horrendously grating and overplayed, and lest I not forget, the completely uninspired (read: awful) final season that takes a huge dump all over those fuzzy memories of the early years -- but you see my point. I know a couple of you have agreed with me on this before, so you know what I mean.
-I like My Life as a Teenage Robot. There, I said it. I don't care what any of you think of me, I like this show, and I'm not afraid to admit it.
It's not nearly enjoyable as the (good) Nicktoons before it, but I'll be damned if I didn't fall in love with these characters. Tuck especially; he's just such a nice kid, and it's so hard for me to get pissed at him when he screws up (which is, like, every episode, but I digress). It is very inconsistent, yes (some of the late-run episodes are pretty bad, I'll admit), but when it's on, it's on. The writing can be really solid at times, and some of the little "background gags" they do, like the signs on a wall or in a park, are quite clever and humorous. It's also a nice little blend of action and comedy; not quite as well done as PPG, but still good in its right. All things considered, this show has a quirky charm to it that, despite its obvious flaws, can still be an enjoyable romp at times, and I've always felt it was just a tad underrated.
Welp, there you have it. Go ahead folks; FLAME AWAYYYYYYYYYY.
I tried to get into MLAATR, but for the life of me couldn't. Nothing about it seemed original, aside from some clever visual gags. The characters were a little flat to me, the humor didn't really go anywhere, and the retro-themed designs just looked dated at that point. I like Rob Renzetti's previous work, but his show missed the mark for me.
As for Dexter, as much as I like it, Dee Dee was just too much for me at times. I remember writing a majorly detailed post back on the old board where I talked about how I thought that it, PPG and EEnE were the 3 best and most important CN originals of all time for psychological purposes, and went into the Dexter-Dee Dee relationship for its sake. So I do like her. But often times, I really wish that she would have lost every now and then, or just not be there at all sometimes. She could get way too hyper or sentimental for the show's own good.
Quote from: Avaitor on November 15, 2011, 08:03:23 PM
Heh, I think most of us were too young to make that connection. I didn't realize it until just before the block ended myself. Which is funny since I actually watched G1 as a kid.
Yeah and that was more of what I thought was an uncommon occurence than an unpopular opinion.
Quote from: Avaitor on November 15, 2011, 08:03:23 PM
To me, it started to head south around the time they put Hamtaro and Powerpuff Girls on. I love PPG and I'll admit to watching some of Hamtaro, but neither show had any right to air there. The block was still watchable then, but that's when anything became fair game.
I don't remember the timeline. All I know is, whenever Toonami started throwing whenever on the block, it lost its touch (well not completely because we all know how bad it was) I remember me and a friend instantly agreed on that. It's one of those things long time cartoon fans just get.
Quote from: Avaitor on November 15, 2011, 08:03:23 PM
I agree myself. Later Arnold at least. Rewatching season 1 of HA! on DVD, I think I really like Arnold when he was a daydreaming every kid. When he gets whitewashed later on in the show, he isn't anywhere near as fun.
I believe we agreed on that at tv.com ;D
Quote from: Avaitor on November 15, 2011, 08:03:23 PM
You know, we used to argue about this on tv.com a bit, but I agree with you now to an extent. I can't stand the show anymore.
I don't even remember that shit.
Quote from: Kiddington on November 16, 2011, 12:36:57 AM
-Animaniacs is easily the LEAST enjoyable of all the WB Silver Age productions. I put it even further down the line than Histeria (if my username wasn't obvious enough, I like Histeria, and I don't care what anyone thinks). I've come to the point now where I don't even think I like it anymore, and I just fail to see why so many people (ranging from Doug Walker, to just about every single WB animation buff on TZ) rate this damn show so highly. Pinky & The Brain was infinitely better; the characters are better (Pinky and The Brain are SO much more likeable than the Warner siblings), the writing is better, it's FUNNIER... honestly, P&TB was BY FAR the superior show, but for whatever reason (whether it's because it's a spin-off, or what I don't know), it doesn't get nearly the credit that Animaniacs does, and I just don't get it. And don't let me stop there; TTA, Freakazoid, and yes, even Histeria... all shows that I enjoy far more than I enjoy Animaniacs.
I almost completely agree. Animaniacs bored the living fuck out of me. Pinky & The Brain was of course good though. BUT I think Tiny Toons are just as boring and I got bored trying to get Freakazoid!
Side note:
So EK finally grew the balls to admit that he thinks Gargoyles is flat out better than BTAS and not just "in his opinion". Too bad he's still too scared to say he thinks Batman Beyond is superior to Batman The Animated Series.
It is just in my opinion, though. You can't deny that without BTAS, Gargoyles and many other great action cartoons that we now have probably wouldn't exist, including Batman Beyond (especially being that its a sequel to BTAS). The sheer influence of BTAS makes it a more important series from an objective standpoint, which is why I can agree with it ranking above Gargoyles in an animated series list. That said, from a personal standpoint I just feel that Gargoyles holds a more consistent level of quality, and to me it holds up a little bit better than BTAS when viewed on the whole, since the only episodes that I don't really like from Gargoyles are the World Tour episodes, and even then there are some really good ones in there, I just find that the arc itself drags on for way too long.
As for Batman Beyond, one unpopular opinion that I have on that is that I actually like season 2, on the whole. People criticize it for having way too many high school episodes, but upon re-watching it, its not like that's all it has going for it, and even quite a few of the episodes involving high school characters aren't necessarily bad, and can tackle fairly mature subject matter. Also, it doesn't really feel any less dark for the most part. The dark tone that the series started with is still present in that season, but just not as prominent or noticeable as before, and there are some episodes with pretty dark endings. Overall I think it was still a good season.
On that note:
I like the high school episodes in Batman Beyond. The show probably does it better than any other one.
I also want to see a show centered around doing that, which is I'm sure an unpopular opinion outside of idiot anime fans.
Batman The Animated Series shouldn't be labeled an action show. It's like calling the comic books "action comics" Batman does a bit of everything and when's the last time you heard someone say, "Boy, that Batman fight sure was great!". The show doesn't get its praise for its action.
Also, action shows are unfairly bashed because they aren't BTAS-like enough. See Samurai Jack. That show is a fun action/adventure of the week show. Nothing more, nothing less.
The thing is, there are few BTAS episodes that I actually dislike. I'm not going to be a fanboy and state that they were all Heart Of Ice level, but there were few Night Of The Wolf level episodes that I didn't find at least some enjoyment out of. That said, I see the overrated complaints, but I also don't agree with those that say there are only a handful of good episodes. IMO, it's a great show with a lot of high points and only a handful of low. Which is also how I feel about Beyond which is probably the most consistent DCAU show, I just feel BTAS high points were higher as a whole.
I agree with Kiddington on Animaniacs, especially the last season which had every major problem I have with current animated comedies being the vicious humor with absolutely no irony or tongue in cheek. I do like some episodes but I'd rather watch TT, Freakazoid, or whatever instead.
But I still really like Dexter's Lab. At least the pre-revival episodes.
Its been a while since I've watched any of those WB comedies myself. I should get to re-watching Animaniacs!, Tiny Toons, Freakazoid!, and Pinky and the Brain one of these days. Maybe sometime after I'm done re-watching the DCAU shows.
This might be a bit too specific for this thread (which is probably more about animation in general as opposed to animated characters), and I should probably have posted this on the NGE board, but I feel that this particular point is popular enough among people who watch anime for me to justify posting it here:
-I don't think that Shinji Ikari from NGE is a bad character, or even unlikable. The various rip-offs of his character archetype due to NGE's huge influence are what I feel contributed to a lot of his hate rather than him as a character himself. I mean, he's not going to make anyone's favorite list, but really the way he acts in the show for the most part is completely justified, and he doesn't whine that much, and he also doesn't really show disinterest or no care in others, either. For one thing, in the beginning of the series he's a coward, sure, but if you think about how you would react if you were suddenly forced to get into a giant organic mecha and fight giant organic monsters without any prior notice, I doubt that you'd be so readily up to the challenge. And to his credit at least he DOES actually develop as a character and become less of a prick. Honestly, I probably shouldn't defend his character since its not like he's a favorite of mine or anything (not even close, really), but at the same time I just feel like pointing out that a lot of criticisms garnered towards him are completely unfounded. I say this with absolutely no bias, as I only watched NGE earlier in the summer this year, and even then while I generally like it I'm certainly not a fanboy of the show either (anyone else on this board can attest to that), so really I just feel like offering up my counter-opinion to what most people think in regards to this particular character. Maybe its because I went into the show expecting to hate him that I realized how ridiculously overblown the complaints about him are.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 17, 2011, 12:00:09 AM
-I don't think that Shinji Ikari from NGE is a bad character, or even unlikable.
THANK YOU. I've been saying this forever.
Thought of a few more:
- Obviously this isn't an unpopular opinion here but it seems to be everywhere else in the world: I hate Butch Hartman's shows. Fairly Odd Parents, Danny Phantom, whatever, they all suck. I know so many people who fondly remember these shows as some of the greatest Nicktoons ever and I cannot for the life of me figure out what they find appealing about them. FOP, for example, is a show where every character's voice is loud, shrill, and annoying. And everyone screams. Danny Phantom tried to be an action show and a comedy show and failed to do both. Butch Hartman is a hack. I firmly believe this.
- Even though I knew it was a bad show, I found enjoyment in Hi Hi Puffy AmiYumi. I don't know why. But let me make it clear: I know the show was a piece of crap. But for some reason I watched it.
- I liked FUNimation's dub of Shin-Chan. Sometimes the jokes fell flat but overall I found it hilarious. I also enjoy the original subbed version of Crayon Shin-Chan.
- I never found Spongebob Squarepants all that amazing, even in the first three seasons. Don't get me wrong, those first three seasons do have some great episodes and I actually really like the movie. But overall I find the show to be pretty overrated.
- I liked Teen Titans. It seems unpopular around these parts, but I really enjoyed it.
- I hated Reboot. Tried watching it as a kid and just couldn't get into it. I understand it was a technological marvel for its time but the show just did nothing for me.
- I found Antz more entertaining than A Bug's Life. Granted it's been years since I've seen either, but I liked Antz more.
As for EK saying he likes Trigun more than Bebop, I thought I was the only one. I can see how others would like Cowboy Bebop more but I prefer Trigun. Hell, mostly thanks to my Devil May Cry bias but whatever. I need to watch the episodes I missed and in order soon. Hell, I've missed some CB episodes.
NGE sucks.
Akira is overrated as hell.
Cowboy Bebop The Movie/Knocking on Heaven's Door is the greatest anime movie of all time and much better than the show.
Secret Of Mamo is so much better than Castle of Cagliostro. With that said, CoC is a great classic and besides being called the best Lupin movie or the best Lupin anything, it isn't overrated.
Lupin The Third should be considered one of the 3 greatest classic anime series of all time.
Lupin The Third's English dub rocks, even with the Who Wants To Be A Millionaire and such time paradox lines.
Samurai Champloo is better than Rurouni Kenshin.
Fist of the Northstar should be considered the greatest anime classic ever (heh, I didn't even have this in mind when I wrote about Lupin. Shows how that works out.)
Heat Guy J is the absolute best futuristic anime.
Gundam sucks.
Giant Robot anime not named Big O or Zoids sucks.
High school in anime has never been entertaining.
Quote from: Eddy on November 17, 2011, 02:36:05 AM
- I never found Spongebob Squarepants all that amazing, even in the first three seasons. Don't get me wrong, those first three seasons do have some great episodes and I actually really like the movie. But overall I find the show to be pretty overrated.
SpongeBob at it's best is just a toned-down Rocko's Modern Life, and at it's worst is the animated equivalent to laughing at the special needs kid.
I'll never understand the appeal of this show.
I like Spongebob. I never thought it was great, but I never really disliked it either. I find it to be a decent cartoon, nothing more, and nothing less.
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 17, 2011, 08:46:39 AM
Lupin The Third should be considered one of the 3 greatest classic anime series of all time.
Lupin The Third's English dub rocks, even with the Who Wants To Be A Millionaire and such time paradox lines.
Agreed.
I like Spongebob in small doses. Nick absolutely kills this show with the way they overplay it, though.
I also like Teen Titans. It's a decent show. But I don't love it or really have much attachment to it. My main issue was how every episode only had like 6 characters and barely ever had background characters. That just irked me. It made the world feel too small and not very interesting.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 17, 2011, 12:11:01 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 17, 2011, 08:46:39 AM
Lupin The Third should be considered one of the 3 greatest classic anime series of all time.
Lupin The Third's English dub rocks, even with the Who Wants To Be A Millionaire and such time paradox lines.
Agreed.
I was really shocked when I heard the hate for the Lupin English dub but then again, the stupidity of anime fans never ceases to amaze me.
Quote from: Desensitized on November 17, 2011, 12:20:36 PM
I like Spongebob in small doses. Nick absolutely kills this show with the way they overplay it, though.
I also like Teen Titans. It's a decent show. But I don't love it or really have much attachment to it. My main issue was how every episode only had like 6 characters and barely ever had background characters. That just irked me. It made the world feel too small and not very interesting.
What else don't you like about the show? I've been meaning to ask you that when you said there was a bunch wrong with it.
Well, Teen Titans to me was always a good show, but it never managed to be great for me. It might have been that it never seemed to know when to be serious or comedic and some parts are jarring. Another thing is, like I said, the world seems very empty, we never really see the general public and the team never really interacts with them making it feel very detached. The last season had some pretty poor moments of seriousness proving to me that it probably should have focused more on comedy. I mean, my favorite episode was the Tofu one with Beast Boy, but they rarely did episodes like that after a certain point.
Though I did like the ending unlike most people, I don't think it fit this show. It seemed sort of forced in at the end like they needed to have some sort of series defining statement, but Teen Titans was never that kind of show. IMO, the ending with all the heroes fit much better. The ending would have worked better in a show like TB&TB or other superhero shows, but it didn't really fit Teen Titans.
Also, the Brain kinda ignores the Doom Patrol and goes after the Titans for no real reason (and they never even help them which is also weird) which really bugs me, and the Cyborg arc is pretty forgettable and doesn't really have a lot of emotion even though that's what they want to get across. I don't mind drama in less serious shows, but if you don't do it right, it just feels like a waste of time.
Despite all that, it's not a bad show, but it's not really anything great, so when people were expecting us to put it on the list, I was very surprised.
Quote from: Desensitized on November 17, 2011, 01:36:12 PM
Also, the Brain kinda ignores the Doom Patrol and goes after the Titans for no real reason (and they never even help them which is also weird) which really bugs me, and the Cyborg arc is pretty forgettable and doesn't really have a lot of emotion even though that's what they want to get across. I don't mind drama in less serious shows, but if you don't do it right, it just feels like a waste of time.
Brain redirected his focus on the Teen Titans because they were a bigger threat. Or at least, they were a rising threat.
I thought Teen Titans, when it wanted to be serious, was done very well. Seasons two and four are still some of my all time favorite arcs.
It still doesn't really explain why the Doom Patrol does nothing whatsoever despite him being their biggest enemy. They just vanish.
Spongebob would have been fine, had Nick stuck to their original plans and just ended it after the movie. Obviously, the show became a megahit phenomenon, and thus, we went from there.
Without Steve Hillenburg, as well as several of the original writers involved (all of whom left after the movie), it really went downhill. Most of the crew I can see that work on it now are long-time vets of other, not-so-great Nicktoons (CatDog, late-run Hey Arnold, etc.), and the quality shows.
...as far as my opinion of it goes, I've made that pretty obvious already; love the first three seasons, indifferent towards the movie, and hate everything that came afterwards.
Quote from: Desensitized on November 17, 2011, 04:57:17 PM
It still doesn't really explain why the Doom Patrol does nothing whatsoever despite him being their biggest enemy. They just vanish.
Oh. Well in that case I agree. Don't like how they just vanish.
I think the Terra and Trigon stories were a clear step above this one.
Cars is underrated.
There, I said it.
I agree. I like the Cars movies, even if they are rather bleh by Pixar standards. But that doesn't mean they are the bad films that the internet would lead you to believe.
I also enjoy Cars as well.
I also enjoy Shrek, which is also another series that gets a lot of hate for being a franchise zombie or something. I'll admit that I still think that 3 is the weakest in the series but I don't hate it as much as I used to.
Cars 1 was pretty good. Cars 2 was terrible though.
I don't really watch a lot of animation anymore, but here goes...
- I didn't absolutely loathe Mike, Lu, and Og.
- Sheep in the Big City was the best Cartoon Cartoon.
- I've never liked anime.
- Regular Show is the best cartoon on television.
- I still don't get the appeal over the whole "brony" trend.
Quote from: Geezer on February 03, 2012, 09:57:45 PM
- I didn't absolutely loathe Mike, Lu, and Og.
I don't either. I remember liking it as a kid. But then, I liked anything as a kid.
Quote- Sheep in the Big City was the best Cartoon Cartoon.
See, that was a good show even beyond childhood standards. Sucks how it isn't as remembered as the rest.
Quote- I've never liked anime.
Honestly, I don't see the rationale behind not liking animation purely because of what country it comes from. That's like refusing to read Proust purely because he's French.
Quote- Regular Show is the best cartoon on television.
Hmm. Hmm.
Quote- I still don't get the appeal over the whole "brony" trend.
A combination of New Serenity, people nostalgic over the PPG/Dexter's style of humor, and a dash of irony.
I actually quite liked M,L&O as a kid. Then again, I watched basically anything that was on CN at the time, but I still remember getting fairly excited for new episodes and being disappointed when they took it off CCF and cut its airings.
Watching it again now, I can see why it's the least popular of the first 8 Cartoon Cartoons. It's way too "safe" for CN's standards at the time and just isn't that funny in hindsight. Lancelot and the other animals aside, at least. Plus Lu is just Angelica without the fun or oblivious wit.
I always thought it was boring, even as a kid. Watching it now especially (once a year they'll air it on Boomerang for about a month), it's just... really, really boring. That's all I can say; it's not bad or anything, as the writing doesn't make you want to shake your head like some of CN's future efforts during the mid-00's did, but nothing about it is very interesting at all (except maybe Lancelot, but even then, that's not much).
Quote from: Geezer on February 03, 2012, 09:57:45 PM
- I didn't absolutely loathe Mike, Lu, and Og.
- Sheep in the Big City was the best Cartoon Cartoon.
- Regular Show is the best cartoon on television.
- I still don't get the appeal over the whole "brony" trend.
Man Geezer, you are the coolest.
I disagree with number 3 though. That honor goes to Bob's Burgers.
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on February 04, 2012, 01:30:25 AM
Quote from: Geezer on February 03, 2012, 09:57:45 PM
- I didn't absolutely loathe Mike, Lu, and Og.
- Sheep in the Big City was the best Cartoon Cartoon.
- Regular Show is the best cartoon on television.
- I still don't get the appeal over the whole "brony" trend.
Man Geezer, you are the coolest.
I disagree with number 3 though. That honor goes to Bob's Burgers.
I second the first two of your motions, but not the third one. Best cartoon is Archer, baby.
Quote from: Foggle on February 04, 2012, 01:33:16 AM
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on February 04, 2012, 01:30:25 AM
Quote from: Geezer on February 03, 2012, 09:57:45 PM
- I didn't absolutely loathe Mike, Lu, and Og.
- Sheep in the Big City was the best Cartoon Cartoon.
- Regular Show is the best cartoon on television.
- I still don't get the appeal over the whole "brony" trend.
Man Geezer, you are the coolest.
I disagree with number 3 though. That honor goes to Bob's Burgers.
I second the first two of your motions, but not the third one. Best cartoon is Archer, baby.
IAWTP
I've heard good things about Archer, but I haven't watched it yet. Maybe I'll give it a try.
Digimon season 4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pokemon Season 1.
I don't even remember Frontier, but Pokemon season 1 was a bit different than what the show ended up becoming.
I've tried several times to rewatch the Kanto Pokemon episodes, or the Orange Island episodes, but every time I do I just can't finish the season. The show is so awful and repetitive and annoying, it just does not hold up at all. I loved it as a kid, but I can't stomach it now.
I have heard that the original Japanese version is better than the 4Kids dub, and I do have some curiosity to check it out, but even then I still don't know.
Honestly, the first 2 seasons are best left in your memories. Kanto had some god-awful writing and blatantly went against a lot of what the games established, and the Orange Islands is whogivesafuck central since its all filler anyway. I do still enjoy the 3rd gen and 4th gen series but they are quite repetitive and long so I wouldn't recommend them unless you're a big fan of the games.
Also, I don't think moeshit/slice of life is killing anime. A lot of it isn't even terrible, just very generic and boring. Kind of like the typical shounen battle series, or stuff based off toylines. Hell I can't even think of one series that I'd consider excellent, mostly just passable. I saw a few episodes of Nichijou and I was worn out by the 3rd episode since it tried too hard to be zany and unpredictable.
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on February 12, 2012, 01:55:57 PM
Also, I don't think moeshit/slice of life is killing anime. A lot of it isn't even terrible, just very generic and boring. Kind of like the typical shounen battle series, or stuff based off toylines. Hell I can't even think of one series that I'd consider excellent, mostly just passable. I saw a few episodes of Nichijou and I was worn out by the 3rd episode since it tried too hard to be zany and unpredictable.
Pretty much, yeah. I hate most of the moeshit I've seen, but it's basically just the replacement for shounen battle shows which aren't as abundant anymore. It's just a fad, and will most certainly pass with time; definitely not killing the industry.
Moe isn't killing anime, it's just a fad. What's killing anime is anyone's inability to do anything that isn't either moe or bad shonen. There's like no in between most of the time.
I think the main problem is that there are very few anime shows these days that aren't completely wrapped around one particular genre, and within each genre the writers only see fit to follow all of the tropes and cliches they they know will at least make their show passable. That is to say, very few anime seem to take any risks at all anymore, and even the few that do aren't always necessarily good because of it, as it does still take a lot of talent to put together something a bit different than the norm.
For instance, most moe shows just end up following common tropes of trying to be cute and funny, but in a way that usually involves the viewers to be very familiar with other anime of the same type or some form of otaku culture. Basically, moe shows are made for fans of moe anime, plane and simple. The same can be said for most shonen series these days as well.
What I would like to see are more series that, while they may be part of one genre, are not confined to the tight structure of their respective genre and that can basically do their own thing even if they can't be entirely original. For example, I like series like Great Teacher Onizuka (and Shounan Junai Gumi as well), Rurouni Kenshin, Full Metal Panic!, and a bunch of other shows. With GTO and RK, they are both shonen series, but GTO really has little to nothing to do with battles and is basically just its own thing about a guy from the streets becoming a teacher of a messed up group of students from a private academy, and really when you watch it there is no feeling of it being part of any particular genre but that you are just watching a series that is doing what it wants to do and entertaining you all the same. Rurouni Kenshin is a traditional battle shonen series but the way it ties in more mature themes of old Japanese government and has a fantasized take on the Meiji era of Japan make it stand out, and the fact that the protagonist is just flat-out not a typical shonen hero makes it all the more interesting for me. Full Metal Panic! is a mecha anime and follows enough of the tropes, but it also successfully combines it with other science-fiction elements as well as good humor in-between the drama, both on the side of slice-of-life comedy and just genuine humor when it comes to the daily military-based lives of the crew at MITHRIL.
Also, we have stuff like Naoki Urasawa's 20th Century Boys along with numerous other works of his that are just begging to have an anime adaptation, but even then its not like I would expect every show out there to be of that caliber of quality anyways. I guess all I'm saying is that I'm tired of so many anime shows lettering their genres restrict what they can be. I just feel that 9 out of every 10 shows that I will try in any given season will end up following some predictable formula that I'm just plane tired of seeing by now.
Yeah, the shows I like the most are the ones that say "Fuck you!" to genres. For example, what the Hell was Baccano!?
Heh, Now that you mention it I still need to finish Baccano!, though at this point I might as well just start the series from scratch and watch through all of it during my spring break.
- I prefer most of my anime dubbed with only a few exceptions. Note that I'm not much of an anime watcher, though.
- Ed, Edd n Eddy is the best Cartoon Cartoon.
- Try as I did, I could never get into Avatar: The Last Airbender.
- I prefer most of my anime dubbed with only a few exceptions. Note that I'm not much of an anime watcher, though.
Same here. I only like things to be in their native language when it's live action. I don't get the whole point of watching something in Japanese just because it's hardcore to do. Those people love to say "But but I don't want the script to be changed." but that's just a cheap excuse and only bad dubs stray to far from the original script. I'd like to hear what the character's mean and not just read it.
Quote from: Eddy on February 12, 2012, 11:44:30 PM
- Ed, Edd n Eddy is the best Cartoon Cartoon.
I agree with you. Avaitor probably does, too. ;)
Quote from: gunswordfist on February 12, 2012, 11:53:21 PM
- I prefer most of my anime dubbed with only a few exceptions. Note that I'm not much of an anime watcher, though.
Same here. I only like things to be in their native language when it's live action. I don't get the whole point of watching something in Japanese just because it's hardcore to do. Those people love to say "But but I don't want the script to be changed." but that's just a cheap excuse and only bad dubs stray to far from the original script. I'd like to hear what the character's mean and not just read it.
If the English voice acting is terrible, I watch the Japanese version. Because unless it's just flat-out godawful, I can't really tell if the Japanese voice acting is bad. :)
Live action films should
always be viewed in their native language, however.
Yep, just how I like my kungfu movies.
Real men watch Higurashi with ear plugs. :P
I prefer dubs because I like focusing on the actual story, and that's harder with subtitles and untranslated Japanese sayings or phrases that I need to decipher mid-plot. Unless either the translation of acting is bad, I stick with dubs.
I like my anime to not have retarded cliches in it. I tried to look up pirate, crime and Yakuza anime and either came up with nothing or some shit with stupid character designs (Hush EK, I promised I would watch One Piece)
Quote from: gunswordfist on February 13, 2012, 12:23:06 AM
Yakuza anime
Tell me if you ever find one... none exist that I know of. I always love me some mafia fiction.
Quote from: Foggle on February 13, 2012, 12:24:45 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on February 13, 2012, 12:23:06 AM
Yakuza anime
Tell me if you ever find one... none exist that I know of. I always love me some mafia fiction.
I found some shit that had a talking dog and some high school kids in it once. :zonk:
Quote from: Eddy on February 12, 2012, 11:44:30 PM
- I prefer most of my anime dubbed with only a few exceptions. Note that I'm not much of an anime watcher, though.
- Try as I did, I could never get into Avatar: The Last Airbender.
I can agree with these 2 myself. I have no problems reading subtitles, but if the dub is good I see nothing wrong in preferring to watch a show in my own language in which I can actually better understand the emotions and personalities of the characters. Of course, if the dub sucks I have no problem watching an anime subbed/
As for Avatar, its fine and all, but after all of the hype its gotten I have to say that I don't really think its THAT great. I never even bothered to finish watching the show because it honestly didn't hold my interest for the entire way through.
As for Ed, Edd, n' Eddy, while its not my favorite CC I can still respect it as being one of the best cartoons on CN in general.
Quote from: Foggle on February 13, 2012, 12:24:45 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on February 13, 2012, 12:23:06 AM
Yakuza anime
Tell me if you ever find one... none exist that I know of. I always love me some mafia fiction.
I remember a show from the '80s called "Stop Hibari Kun". It's really, really ridiculous.
Here's a wiki about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop!!_Hibari-kun!
Rocky & Bullwinkle is perhaps the most boring cartoon I've ever seen in my life. I wish I got much more exposure to Underdog. That show actually seemed interesting.
I don't hate Max from Batman Beyond. I did hate it whenever she overstepped her boundaries but that wasn't often. It makes sense that they wanted to give Terry someone he can confide to about being Batman besides some old guy in a cave. Also, I've seen no up and downs in Batman Beyond. It all goes smooth to me, except for those damned The Call episodes...ugh, fucking Starro, seriously?!
I see that Rob Paulson is getting Grey DeLisle on his podcast. Out of all the character she has voiced, my favorite will forever be Lor McQuarrie from The Weekenders.
I really need to watch some of that show again. I still quote it sometimes.
I never watched a lot of that show, the only memory I have of it was watching some reruns on Toon Disney. It kind of looks like it was supposed to be Disney's answer to Rocket Power though.
If anything, it was more like their answer to As Told by Ginger, which wouldn't make much sense, since they came out around the same time.
In terms of humor though, it's like Recess, but a little more clever IMO.
Heh, The Weekenders and Recess were 2 nostalgic shows I used to watch quite a lot as a kid. I haven't seen either of them in ages and hardly remember them, though, so I have no idea how they hold up today.
I like pointy things!
I watched the shit out of Recess as a kid, and I still remember quite a bit from it, it was kind of like Hey Arnold to me. I haven't watched it in a couple years, but the last time I did I still enjoyed it.
"What's your favorite instrument"
*does mouth guitar solo* "PIANO!!!"
^Still a favorite Weekenders quote.
Recess was pretty good, too. I should look some of that up as well.
Except for the one with Miss Finster dressed up as a hula girl. That still gives me nightmares.
Never heard of The Weekenders.
Every anime comedy ever.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi44.tinypic.com%2F2mx2983.png&hash=e4b4f61aed0f341ba75a85ce663e9f159ad755b0)
Do they really always explain the jokes in the actual episodes of an anime comedy? Usually that only happens when the translators put in a note on the subtitles.
Not every joke (and in a lot of cases, not even most of them), but many anime comedies -- especially recent ones -- apparently find it necessary to have the characters explain jokes to the audience. Kill Me Baby is a very good example of something that's currently airing; at least half of the jokes in the first episode alone are explained after delivery. For a more popular example, joke explanations are extremely prominent in the early episodes of Lucky Star (before the director changed). Even truly hilarious anime comedies like Cromartie, Fumoffu, and Excel Saga do this shit, though it's worth noting that English dubbers usually write it out of their localized scripts.
I think it's a cultural thing in that they don't like people being left out on a gag. Though some comedies need it just so I can understand exactly where the joke even is.
Quote from: Foggle on March 05, 2012, 12:36:36 AM
Every anime comedy ever.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi44.tinypic.com%2F2mx2983.png&hash=e4b4f61aed0f341ba75a85ce663e9f159ad755b0)
Exactly how I feel about art. Just replace it with "joke" and it's the same thing.
So am I the only one who enjoyed the latest FIM episode (Dragon Quest)?
It's not the best episode of the show, but, jeezuz, it's far from the worst, as some people are saying at TZ.
Quote from: Foggle on March 05, 2012, 12:36:36 AM
Every anime comedy ever.
I don't think that's necessarily an unpopular opinion among Western viewers of anime. Most people have always hated that shit, and anime comedies are no longer as popular here as they used to be because audiences have grown up and realize just how annoying it is to see that trend in so many anime. Most modern shonen anime do this a lot too and it drives me up the wall, though at least shonen series have the excuse of having younger viewers who actually may not get the jokes (though, really, most of the jokes are so insanely stupid that I would probably have gotten it without an explanation even if I was 5....and I still wouldn't have found it funny).
I'm not sure why it's so prominent in anime. Manga doesn't really have that problem, from what I've seen.
First season of Family Guy>first season of The Simpsons. I wish Family Guy developed into something good because I would be able to go back to the early episodes and enjoy them for what they are and see how much better the show has gotten, but like many others I can't be bothered to watch any episode of the show anymore.
That's an interesting comparison. However, I'd have to give it to the Simpsons season 1 for trying so many different ideas. Family Guy's first season felt like they were just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.
When it comes to Family Guy, I thought the second season was okay but the third showed some potential. Until they totally blew it with the comeback.
Yeah, I don't agree with that as well. Family Guy's first season is kinda boring, and while The Simpsons' first season is a bit weak in areas, it also has Bart the Genius, and Bart the General, and Life in the Fast Lane, and Krusty Gets Busted.
If you said season 2/3 of Family Guy is better than season one of The Simpsons, then I might agree with you. Ain't no way in hell though that seasons 2/3 of Family Guy are better than seasons 2/3 of The Simpsons, you say some shit like that and I know your ass is trolling.
Here's one: I'm just not a fan of Hanna-Barbera. Not even the "good" ones from the late '50s/early '60s, like "Flintstones" or "Huckleberry Hound".
Not that I absolutely hate everything they did: I love "Top Cat" because of Arnold Stang, and I'll admit that I get rosy eyed whenever I think of "Wacky Races", but really, I just don't like most of their shows.
I think it's because their shows just aren't funny. I don't have problem with limited animation; I'm a huge fan of Jay Ward and Total Television and their shows had worse animation than HB did at the time!
I'm ont interested in Legend of Korra. At all, really.
I mean, I gave the first two episodes a watch, and while I think they're fine and rather well done, I just didn't feel the desire to continue to keep up with it. I don't even know why, honestly. I just... don't.
Quote from: Brak's Dad on May 19, 2012, 08:17:17 PM
I'm ont interested in Legend of Korra. At all, really.
I mean, I gave the first two episodes a watch, and while I think they're fine and rather well done, I just didn't feel the desire to continue to keep up with it. I don't even know why, honestly. I just... don't.
That's too bad, because so far it's blowing the original series out of the water.
But maybe you're just not in the mood for it. I get that way with things sometimes.
I guess not. It has nothing to do with the original series, but I dunno, I guess I'm not really up for it now.
To be honest, I haven't really followed it outside the premiere episodes either. I don't know why it doesn't call to me either, it has the same kind of charm the first series did, but I'm just not feeling compelled to keep up with it.
Knowing me, i'll probably marathon the first season before the second comes out.
I might just need to take some time off from it before I delve into the series, to escape the hype and shippers.
I think I may have already said this, but I wasn't even that fond of Avatar: The Last Airbender, to begin with. I know how revered and well-loved of a series it is, and I can respect it and all, but I really tried to get into it and I just never found it that interesting, in all honesty. I never finished the series, and maybe I'll try to do so at some point in time, but because of my lack of interest in that I haven't bothered to watch Legend of Korra, either.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 20, 2012, 12:24:18 AM
I think I may have already said this, but I wasn't even that fond of Avatar: The Last Airbender, to begin with. I know how revered and well-loved of a series it is, and I can respect it and all, but I really tried to get into it and I just never found it that interesting, in all honesty. I never finished the series, and maybe I'll try to do so at some point in time, but because of my lack of interest in that I haven't bothered to watch Legend of Korra, either.
You might actually prefer this one. It addresses pretty much all the issues of the original series, and is actually quite an engaging watch.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 20, 2012, 12:26:21 AM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 20, 2012, 12:24:18 AM
I think I may have already said this, but I wasn't even that fond of Avatar: The Last Airbender, to begin with. I know how revered and well-loved of a series it is, and I can respect it and all, but I really tried to get into it and I just never found it that interesting, in all honesty. I never finished the series, and maybe I'll try to do so at some point in time, but because of my lack of interest in that I haven't bothered to watch Legend of Korra, either.
You might actually prefer this one. It addresses pretty much all the issues of the original series, and is actually quite an engaging watch.
And Korra doesn't require you at all to remember the previous series, so going into it might be smoother than you'd expect.
So you'd both say that I could give this one a watch and follow it just fine despite never having seen Book/Season 3 of the original series (and barely remembering the first 2 seasons, for that matter)? If so, I'll definitely give it a look sometime soon.
Well there's probably going to be a few mentions later on, but I think they'll be explained. But as far as the current story, it has little to do with the old one other than taking place in the same world and having some descendants of old characters.
I don't think this is so much of an unpopular opinion, and I can probably post it anywhere, but I think it's worth saying anyway.
I miss original ideas. I think that's why I can't get into Legend of Korra and why it takes so long for me to catch up with my super hero shows on my DVR. I've already been in the Avatar universe and I've seen dozens of different takes on DC and Marvel. I want to watch more shows with unique universes or even ones like ours with different characters. It feels like we have too many reboots, prequel/sequel series and unoriginal ideas filtering out anything else to keep an eye on.
For all of its problems, the one thing I really admire about Adventure Time is just how creative it is. It has it's own universe, with its own rules, mythology and tons of new ideas throughout. While Finn and Jake still get on my nerves sometimes, I get a lot of enjoyment out of seeing all the different aspects of the kingdom. And I'd love more shows like it.
I agree that we have a severe lack of original shows. As much as I like Avengers and TSSM and the like, I'd really love to see a new hit series that isn't based off of anything else, whatsoever. I had a lot of hopes on Sym-Bionic Titan but that honestly let me down, and I would really admire anyone who could come up with a great new original show with a strong run. I mean, I wouldn't mind Gred Weisman coming up with his own show again. He did it with Gargoyles and that's still his best work, IMO.
That's why I'm enjoying Korra so much since it's so different from Avatar.
You might want to check out Motorcity to see if it's your cup of tea. It's way too chaotic for me, but maybe one of you can get more out if it than me.
You know, I'd totally watch this if it happened. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JeaCirIv3g0)
Quote from: Brak's Dad on May 27, 2012, 11:19:46 PM
You know, I'd totally watch this if it happened. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JeaCirIv3g0)
Beautiful.
I've never really found this day to be an important one, being raised by a single parent who has had little connection to my own father in life. What's funny is just as I was thinking about this, I saw that a 90's Nick blog that I follow on tumblr posted the episode of As Told by Ginger (I know, it's not 90's, but they post it anyway. I don't mind since I always lump it in with Rocket Power, even though ATBG is clearly the superior show) where Ginger wrote a poem lamenting her distant father.
It got me to think that there aren't too many children of divorce in animation. There are ones raised by single parents, but usually it's because one of the spouses died, like Chuckie's, or they were born in wedlock, like Archer and Cartman. It's surprising how few characters had parents who split up just because their relationship just couldn't work out.
Besides Ginger, the only ones I can think of are Tino from the Weekenders, who also had a really good episode where we get to see his dad; Milhouse, who was an interesting case since his were together on the show for a decent chunk of the show but just called it quits out of nowhere; and Brendon from Home Movies, which is also an interesting case since not only do we get to meet his dad a few times, but even see him remarry and give Brendon a half-sibling. Plus, he was played by Louis CK. I mean, c'mon.
Are you fucking kidding me? Rocket Power is so much better than Ginger.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 17, 2012, 11:51:45 AM
Are you fucking kidding me? Rocket Power is so much better than Ginger.
Thou speak witch speech! :devil:
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 17, 2012, 12:01:05 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 17, 2012, 11:51:45 AM
Are you fucking kidding me? Rocket Power is so much better than Ginger.
Thou speak witch speech! :devil:
Shut up, shoebie.
I still maintain that Ginger was only bland as hell for about 75% of its run. The other 25% has some effective episodes.
Why the hell does the Annoying Orange have his own show on Cartoon Network?
Someone, somewhere out there thought this was actually a good idea?
I didn't even know what the Annoying Orange was before this.
Now I wish I had kept it that way. :whuh:
Quote from: Eddy on June 19, 2012, 04:52:53 PM
Why the hell does the Annoying Orange have his own show on Cartoon Network?
:srs: :srs: :srs:
The more I hear people talking about how stuff like Phineas & Ferb and Gravity Falls aren't proper Disney cartoons, the more I wish said people could be shot in the face. Shit like Ducktales and Goof Troop are gone, stop acting like Disney has to mirror what it did back when you were a fucking kid. TV shouldn't have to conform to one fucking time period.
Kick Buttowski and Fish Hooks >>> Gummi Bears and TaleSpin
;)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsharetv.org%2Fimages%2Fthe_buzz_on_maggie-show.jpg&hash=92139bcd9091d3395c181e99cb891513167a3c40)
A classic that shall be missed.
Quote from: Rynnec on June 19, 2012, 10:40:02 PM
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsharetv.org%2Fimages%2Fthe_buzz_on_maggie-show.jpg&hash=92139bcd9091d3395c181e99cb891513167a3c40)
A classic that shall be missed.
Flies are such adorable creatures, aren't they? :sly:
The creator of that show, Dave Polsky, is currently working on "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic". Trufac ;D
He wrote two episodes for season 1, one of them being the controversial "Feeling Pinkie Keen". He didn't write any for season 2 but according to M.A. Larson he's returning for season 3.
Huh.
You know, speaking of which, I still think Feeling Pinkie Keen is a great episode. Never understood the hate.
Quote from: Kiddington on June 20, 2012, 02:34:19 AM
Huh.
You know, speaking of which, I still think Feeling Pinkie Keen is a great episode. Never understood the hate.
Well, I personally don't rank "Feeling Pinkie Keen" among the better MLP:FiM episodes because of: a) all the abuse that Twilight Sparkle receives in the episode. I don't care for eps in which an innocent character gets mercilessly dumped on for the bulk of the story, and b) Pinkie Pie is a character who's best taken in small doses. Too much Pinkie can really grate on the nerves. Let's face it, Pinkie Pie is to
My Little Pony what Michelangelo is to TMNT.
I like Polsky's episodes, personally. I like the use of slapsticks in his two episodes.
Let's hope that there won't be any backlash for his S3 episodes.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 19, 2012, 10:17:51 PM
The more I hear people talking about how stuff like Phineas & Ferb and Gravity Falls aren't proper Disney cartoons, the more I wish said people could be shot in the face. Shit like Ducktales and Goof Troop are gone, stop acting like Disney has to mirror what it did back when you were a fucking kid. TV shouldn't have to conform to one fucking time period.
The thing is, P&F isn't a proper Disney cartoon.
Or a good cartoon in any capacity.
Is it wrong for me to think so?
It's a cartoon made by Disney, with actors from Disney, and production from Disney. Therefore, it is Disney.
I could see that argument applied to Scooby-Doo, Star Trek/Wars, Dragonball Z vs. GT, Naruto/Bleach/One Piece fillers.
Quote from: Avaitor on June 20, 2012, 10:37:07 AM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 19, 2012, 10:17:51 PM
The more I hear people talking about how stuff like Phineas & Ferb and Gravity Falls aren't proper Disney cartoons, the more I wish said people could be shot in the face. Shit like Ducktales and Goof Troop are gone, stop acting like Disney has to mirror what it did back when you were a fucking kid. TV shouldn't have to conform to one fucking time period.
The thing is, P&F isn't a proper Disney cartoon.
Or a good cartoon in any capacity.
Is it wrong for me to think so?
No.
Why are we even defending P&F? I thought it was unanimous that everyone here hated it.
People actually got mad at me when I insulted P&F on Twitter. So it definitely has fans. :SHOCK:
I tried watching Phinieus & Ferb a couple of times and it's just done nothing for me. The platypus seems like the most interesting character on the show and he doesn't even talk.
So it opens in, what, just a few days? And I still have zero interest in seeing Brave. It just... doesn't look appealing to me at all. All I see is thick accents, weird faces, too much HAIR, and a story that's been done to death ("I'm a girl but that doesn't mean I can't be as good as the boys!").
Sorry Brave, but I'm going to wait for you to wind up on Netflix's streaming service before I consider watching you.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 19, 2012, 10:17:51 PM
The more I hear people talking about how stuff like Phineas & Ferb and Gravity Falls aren't proper Disney cartoons, the more I wish said people could be shot in the face. Shit like Ducktales and Goof Troop are gone, stop acting like Disney has to mirror what it did back when you were a fucking kid. TV shouldn't have to conform to one fucking time period.
Amen. Those shows are from decades ago.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 20, 2012, 04:09:59 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 19, 2012, 10:17:51 PM
The more I hear people talking about how stuff like Phineas & Ferb and Gravity Falls aren't proper Disney cartoons, the more I wish said people could be shot in the face. Shit like Ducktales and Goof Troop are gone, stop acting like Disney has to mirror what it did back when you were a fucking kid. TV shouldn't have to conform to one fucking time period.
Amen. Those shows are from decades ago.
And?
I Love Lucy is still a better sitcom than Whitney.
The thing is, there's always more older stuff than newer stuff, so older stuff is always going to be better. There's just more there, that's all.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 22, 2012, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 20, 2012, 04:09:59 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 19, 2012, 10:17:51 PM
The more I hear people talking about how stuff like Phineas & Ferb and Gravity Falls aren't proper Disney cartoons, the more I wish said people could be shot in the face. Shit like Ducktales and Goof Troop are gone, stop acting like Disney has to mirror what it did back when you were a fucking kid. TV shouldn't have to conform to one fucking time period.
Amen. Those shows are from decades ago.
And?
I Love Lucy is still a better sitcom than Whitney.
The thing is, there's always more older stuff than newer stuff, so older stuff is always going to be better. There's just more there, that's all.
And Community is a better comedy than My Three Sons. So what?
Just because there's more doesn't mean it's automatically better. It just means there's a greater range of classics and clods.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 22, 2012, 03:22:26 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 22, 2012, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 20, 2012, 04:09:59 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 19, 2012, 10:17:51 PM
The more I hear people talking about how stuff like Phineas & Ferb and Gravity Falls aren't proper Disney cartoons, the more I wish said people could be shot in the face. Shit like Ducktales and Goof Troop are gone, stop acting like Disney has to mirror what it did back when you were a fucking kid. TV shouldn't have to conform to one fucking time period.
Amen. Those shows are from decades ago.
And?
I Love Lucy is still a better sitcom than Whitney.
The thing is, there's always more older stuff than newer stuff, so older stuff is always going to be better. There's just more there, that's all.
And Community is a better comedy than My Three Sons. So what?
Just because there's more doesn't mean it's automatically better. It just means there's a greater range of classics and clods.
Hence "more". More options, more variety, and more choice. Hard to argue with that.
But as for preferring older stuff, things were certain ways at certain times. Some times people simply prefer the way things were made in a specific decade. That's probably why people prefer certain decades of music to others.
There's no harm in having preferences.
I really just don't understand how anyone can say that P&F or whatever else they're making now was a better show than say, DuckTales or Gargoyles though. Disney doesn't have to conform to a time period or anything, but I can't see how someone can say they're making superior shows now. Especially when it looks like anyone can make them.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 22, 2012, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 20, 2012, 04:09:59 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 19, 2012, 10:17:51 PM
The more I hear people talking about how stuff like Phineas & Ferb and Gravity Falls aren't proper Disney cartoons, the more I wish said people could be shot in the face. Shit like Ducktales and Goof Troop are gone, stop acting like Disney has to mirror what it did back when you were a fucking kid. TV shouldn't have to conform to one fucking time period.
Amen. Those shows are from decades ago.
And?
I Love Lucy is still a better sitcom than Whitney.
The thing is, there's always more older stuff than newer stuff, so older stuff is always going to be better. There's just more there, that's all.
And you wouldn't expect someone to make a new age Lucy, which was my point.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 22, 2012, 06:25:54 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 22, 2012, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 20, 2012, 04:09:59 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 19, 2012, 10:17:51 PM
The more I hear people talking about how stuff like Phineas & Ferb and Gravity Falls aren't proper Disney cartoons, the more I wish said people could be shot in the face. Shit like Ducktales and Goof Troop are gone, stop acting like Disney has to mirror what it did back when you were a fucking kid. TV shouldn't have to conform to one fucking time period.
Amen. Those shows are from decades ago.
And?
I Love Lucy is still a better sitcom than Whitney.
The thing is, there's always more older stuff than newer stuff, so older stuff is always going to be better. There's just more there, that's all.
And you wouldn't expect someone to make a new age Lucy, which was my point.
No, I would just expect someone to take the core of what worked then and update it for modern times.
Which is the way its supposed to work.
What I'm saying is shows shouldn't ne criticized just for being different. I don't even know how good these new Disney shows are.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 22, 2012, 06:57:30 PM
What I'm saying is shows shouldn't ne criticized just for being different. I don't even know how good these new Disney shows are.
You're right, they shouldn't.
I was just trying to emphasize that not everyone who likes older things likes them "because they were old". I think DuckTales is one of the best cartoons ever made (Heck AR does too, we voted it #21 on our list), and would watch it over many cartoons nowadays.
But that doesn't mean I think everything old is better. Would I watch Quack Pack over The Brave & The Bold? Not a chance.
Actually, we voted it #23 on our list. We gave the #21 spot to South Park. I'm not sure, but this is the 2nd time I've seen someone make that mistake. Avaitor also said it was at #21, but I guess I'm the only one who remembers the actual placements for our list. :sly:
Anyways, I was just nitpicking there because I'm bored and have nothing better to do.
I wonder why we keep making that error.
Eh, it's #21 in my heart.
You have no heart.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 22, 2012, 07:58:48 PM
You have no heart.
No, he actually put his heart in a sunken chest in order to gain immortality, as is common procedure for AR mods.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 22, 2012, 07:59:56 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 22, 2012, 07:58:48 PM
You have no heart.
No, he actually put his heart in a sunken chest in order to gain immortality, as is common procedure for AR mods.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.wikimg.net%2Fstrategywiki%2Fimages%2Fb%2Fbb%2FPM_Tubba_Blubba.gif&hash=733b39e1b972fb6310d1ebd4ce5293990aad72dc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ldGmGoTLXQ
I thought I mentioned this here before, but I think when all is said and done, Alan Menken is a slight bit overrated. He's made plenty of great songs and contributed to a lot of classic scores, but he isn't the end all, be all of music at Disney's studios. It seems like whenever they announce a new animated film and he isn't contributing to the score that it's sacrilege, but it's not like every DAC's soundtrack since The Little Mermaid has sucked without him.
The Lion King has the most memorable and popular soundtrack of all of Disney's movies, and he had nothing to do with it. He didn't work on Tarzan either, which I still consider to be the best thing Phil Collins has ever done. And I still say that Princess and the Frog's score is better than Tangled's, which is the one he actually worked on. I'd even say that it and Enchanted sounded like they were, *gasp*, phoned in.
Fans are crying afoul at how he most likely isn't working on Frozen, and I don't see why it's such a big deal. It'll probably turn out fine without him.
Also, to bring back an old discussion on here, Gravity Falls isn't very Disney-esque, but whatever, it's fun. A hell of a lot more fun than P&F.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 06, 2012, 01:12:49 PM
The Lion King has the most memorable and popular soundtrack of all of Disney's movies
I agree with this statement. Though, then again if I really thought about it I would say that personally I'd tie it with The Hunchback of Notre-Dame as my 2 favorite Disney soundtracks for animated feature-length films.
Gravity Falls feels very Canadian to me. Other than Great Uncle Stan, who seems a bit too stock 'greedy old guy' to me though he does have some good lines and moments.
I'm not sure if I already said this one on this thread before, but after recently having tried to get into Sym-Bionic Titan, I have come to the conclusion that I find Genndy Tartakovsky to be really overrated. A lot of people seem to love his work, but I've seen all 4 of his major works (well, I haven't seen more than half of SBT, but I've seen enough to know that I just don't care for it), and I've only ever liked 1 of them, with that one being Dexter's Laboratory. To be fair, there is a key difference between DL and his other stuff, in that DL is first and foremost a comedy, which by any indication of this cartoon I think that Tartakovsky is quite good at, though it could have just been a fluke or the result of being paired with good writers for that particular show.
However, Samurai Jack, Star Wars: Clone Wars, and Sym-Bionic Titan are decisively more serious shows, and I just never got the appeal of any of them, yet they have all enjoyed much critical success and have tons of adoring fans (Samurai Jack even won an Emmy at one point, if I'm not mistaken), and I just can't see the appeal in any of them. They all have Taratkovsky's trademark paper-thin character models and general art-design style going for them (which honestly has only grown more grating on me over the years), but other than that, I don't see anything else that's really that good about them. They don't have great animation or action scenes or great writing in terms of characters and story (IMO). I don't see anything interesting about them and when I went back and tried to watch some of those shows, I don't even feel like they had great voice acting going for them, with a few exceptions here and there. I don't know what it is, but something about Taratkovsky's more serious shows just feels so cold, empty, and emotionless to me, and I just can't get behind them (and believe me, I've tried).
Sorry for the rant of sorts, but this has just really been bugging me because I feel like the only person who just doesn't "get" Tartakovsky's work. Maybe one of you guys can at least explain the appeal of it to me.
For what it's worth, I'm the same way with Miyazaki. But y'all already knew that.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 08, 2012, 03:25:45 PM
(Samurai Jack even won an Emmy at one point, if I'm not mistaken)
Yep. Clone Wars did too.
With Tartakovsky, I think he's more invested in recreating his favorite action movies and mecha cartoons rather than developing character and story. I do think that his cartoons have great coloring, but I do agree that his designs are tiresome.
Actually, as much as I love Dexter, PPG and the like, I strongly dislike their art design. The UPA look isn't cool, it's just cheap-looking. I love the writing, but there's a reason that Ed, Edd n' Eddy was my favorite Cartoon Cartoon- for one, it doesn't look like Gerald McBoing Boing or Mr. Magoo.
Also, I'm like this with the Coens. The only work of theirs that I enjoy is The Big Lebowski, which also happens to be a comedy.
Yeah, I'm actually not a fan of Miyazaki or the Coen brothers either, so I'm in full agreement with both of you when it comes to each of those creators. I can at least get the appeal of Miyazaki's work, though, even though its not my cup of tea. The same isn't true for me when it comes to Tarakovsky and the Coen brother, but I suppose that's just how I am.
As much as I like ST, I agree that the art style was feeling tired by that point and while I enjoyed it in Dexter's Lab it did kind of wear thin over the years.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 08, 2012, 03:46:36 PMAlso, I'm like this with the Coens. The only work of theirs that I enjoy is The Big Lebowski, which also happens to be a comedy.
Wow, I thought I was the only one. I just can't get into these guys, their work is so lifeless.
No Country for Old Men is a really fascinating idea, and Javier Bardem's performance is great, but it just felt so flat to me and had too many plotholes for it to really work. Fargo was too confused for its own sake. A Serious Man, Burn After Reading and O Brother, Where Art Thou bored me to tears. And if you can name a more fucked up movie than Barton Fink, I'll eat my hat.
The bros have obvious talent, but they're not for me.
Did you know that Burn After Reading was supposed to be a comedy? I'd be hard-pressed to believe that if I didn't read its genre classification, because I can't for the life of me figure out just what the hell was supposed to be the slightest bit funny about it. All I saw were obnoxious, cold, and emotionless characters and a completely uninteresting story.
I also still don't get why so many people loved No Country for Old Men. Like Avaitor said, its a good idea for a story, but the execution is god-awfully boring, IMO.
I fucking love Fargo and The Big Lebowski, but I'm not a Coens fan either.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 08, 2012, 06:26:57 PM
Did you know that Burn After Reading was supposed to be a comedy? I'd be hard-pressed to believe that if I didn't read its genre classification, because I can't for the life of me figure out just what the hell was supposed to be the slightest bit funny about it. All I saw were obnoxious, cold, and emotionless characters and a completely uninteresting story.
I also still don't get why so many people loved No Country for Old Men. Like Avaitor said, its a good idea for a story, but the execution is god-awfully boring, IMO.
Agreed and agreed. There Will Be Blood was way better than No Country IMO.
Yeah. Admittedly, There Will Be Blood wasn't my kind of movie either, but I'd agree that it was definitely a better film than No Country for Old Men. At least it wasn't full of plot-holes and had an interesting main character.
Quote from: Foggle on August 08, 2012, 06:30:58 PM
Agreed and agreed. There Will Be Blood was way better than No Country IMO.
It really is. Just like... anything nominated the year Hurt Locker was nominated was better than it.
I love Fargo, even if it is, admittedly, a bit of a hard movie to follow. Still enjoyable though. "Here's your four dollars, you pathetic piece of shit." :awesome:
...but yeah, I guess I need to toss my hat into the "Coens are overrated" ring with everyone else. I actually caught Burn After Reading on cable about a month ago, and aside from the hacky editing job they did on it, the only thing that stood out to me was Brad Pitt acting goofy as hell (none of his antics really being "funny", though, just weird). Even John Malkovich being his usual surly self didn't stick with me at all. Such a forgettable movie; can't believe the critics liked this one as much as they did.
And yeah, No Country For Old Men absolutely bored me to tears. I expected so much more from this. Tommy Lee Jones was surprisingly sleep-inducing in a lead role, and aside from Bardem, nobody else stood out at all. It's been a while, so I do owe it to myself to catch this again, but I remember being really unimpressed with it the first time around.
We should probably move this to another thread on the Moving Picture board. I won't move any posts here, but I will say we should try to stick to the subject now.
In defense of Jack, this is one of my favorite scenes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmkxsQnNujI), bringing up points I brought up earlier. What do you think about it, EK?
That's a good scene and fits into Tartakovsky's sense of style. It particularly works because, as I mentioned before, I don't think that the animation in Tartakovsky's shows are well-suited to action scenes, but in this case it kind of disguises that with the black shadows and white light gimmick. That said, this also shows how he has a tendency to get carried away with stylistic scenes like this and, IMO, drag them out for far too long. It was an interesting art style but I found myself getting tired of it about about 2 minutes, yet he dragged the scene out for about twice that length. Maybe I'm just being too critical, but even so, a lot of his stylistic scenes aren't even always this good to begin with (at least I don't feel that way), which I suppose is my main problem with Samurai Jack. I don't really mind it being a style over substance show, but the style itself is hit or miss, and while I do enjoy the better uses of style such as in this scene, it doesn't have the substance that gives a show good re-watch value.
Of course, that's all just my personal opinion.
I do enjoy the show, and when I look back at the highlights, I come back to cenes like this, the robot beetle fight in the third part of the premiere movie, Jack vs the blind archers, and Mako dicking around as Aku. But then my critical glasses come back on and I remember that Tartakovsky has a tendency to drag every thing out just because he can.
Often times he pads stuff out for tension, which is something he can't do very well. I'm more forgiving for extended scenes like that, at least in comparison to his goddamn need to overedit everything. Oh my god, this guy loves panel cuts too damn much. I get it, Gennedy loves comic books. So do I. I don't need to see him cut the screen into thirds at least once an episode to show that he does.
And when I think about it too, some of the siller aspects do annoy me. I do like the show's tendency to clown around and experiment, like in the episode where Aku told fairy tales, but stuff like the time Jack turned into a chicken, when he ripped his sandals, and those fucking dogs in the second part of the movie? Gag.
I seem to be pretty harsh on this show, which I don't really like to be. I do enjoy it. I own 2 of the seasons on DVD, and that might change to 3, since I found season 2 for $5 at Big Lots and I wanna go back now that I have some more cash. But it's far from perfect.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 08, 2012, 07:53:57 PM
I seem to be pretty harsh on this show, which I don't really like to be. I do enjoy it. I own 2 of the seasons on DVD, and that might change to 3, since I found season 2 for $5 at Big Lots and I wanna go back now that I have some more cash. But it's far from perfect.
/jealous
I haven't watched Jack in years, so I'm a little foggy here, especially when it comes to the very early stuff. I've been meaning to get caught up, but so far I've just continued to push it off. I really should get around to buying those DVD sets, but they're still a bit too pricey for me right now (Season 1 was still at least $25 on Amazon at last check).
Here goes EK saying GT is overrated. EK, the guy who said STB was a generic robot show after just watching a few episodes. The guy who actually agreed with someone about people only liking SJ because of its art style and that it was a bad action cartoon because its story sucked even though it's CLEARLY an adventure of the week show. The guy who said that the CG Clone Wars could be better than GT's because the new show could have a better story. I wonder what other stupid shit EK could come up with about his shows.
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 10, 2012, 10:00:13 PM
Here goes EK saying GT is overrated. EK, the guy who said STB was a generic robot show after just watching a few episodes. The guy who actually agreed with someone about people only liking SJ because of its art style and that it was a bad action cartoon because its story sucked even though it's CLEARLY an adventure of the week show. The guy who said that the CG Clone Wars could be better than GT's because the new show could have a better story. I wonder what other stupid shit EK could come up with about his shows.
I never criticized SJ's "story" at all, so I have no idea where you pulled that from. I did say it had weak writing, and I still stand by that. You're of course too thick-headed to understand what style over substance is, since it only takes a lot of flash to impress a peanut-sized brain like yours. :bleh:
Also, a few episodes of SBT is all it took to realize what a generic and boring show it was. If you missed a few posts earlier, I actually said I tried again and watched about half of it. I still think it sucks. Once again, though, I can see that it doesn't take much to impress you. :sly:
Nowadays, I find Adventure Time more enjoyable than classic-era Looney Tunes.
Yeah, I'm one of the guys who didn't like Samurai Jack. It was just boring to me and seemed to be all about style over substance. I found the Duck Dodgers parody of it ("Walking. Walking. Walking. Walking. Frog. Walking.") to be pretty funny.
I did like Aku a lot though.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 11, 2012, 12:06:28 AM
Nowadays, I find Adventure Time more enjoyable than classic-era Looney Tunes.
I've tried and I've tried, but I just can't get into
Adventure Time. It's just too weird and random for my tastes, and I don't like how it tries to be funny one minute and dramatic the next, and I realize as I'm typing this that there are a number of fans who love AT for the very reasons why I don't love it. "Dramedy" just isn't my thing. No offense to anyone who is a fan, though.
I think that
Clerks:TAS could be airing on The Hub. It would make a good companion show to
Dan VS., which is too much of an Adult Swim lite type of show show to be airing along with the kids' cartoons. Too bad there are only 6 episodes of
Clerks.
Spongebob Squarepants isn't overrated at all and is better than all Classic Nicktoons not named Rocko, Doug or Hey Arnold! And just about as many modern (not today, I mean newer shows) toons are better than SS, meaning just another handful. I'm obviously referring to pre-movie Spongebob (the movie's great too). I'm on an extended break from the show due to Nick overplaying it but my opinion remains the same.
I honestly think that SpongeBob and Patrick are low-functioning autistic, and portrayed as cruel jokes towards people with special needs.
But at least it's hilarious while doing so. :blush:
You do have a point with Patrick, but I haven't really seen the show in at least 5 years... why would you describe Spongebob as low-functioning autistic?
I find that remark kind of insulting to autistic people. I know some autistic people personally, and that's nowhere close to what their condition is like, even from a comedic point of view.
Patrick is just meant to be a blundering idiot, plane and simple. There's a big difference between stupid and autistic.
For what its worth, I don't feel that post-movie Spongebob is that much of a dip in quality from pre-movie Spongebob (the movie itself is crap, though). That is to say, I thought that Spongebob was OK before the movie and is OK after the movie. I never saw it as being anything great, but I always felt that you guys gave the show way more hate than it really deserved, by the same token. Its not a bad show, but it is probably overrated compared to other kids shows as well. Its certainly no Rocko, but its miles above something like FOP, even at its worst.
I wrote down some points about both somewhere, but I lost the document. You're probably right about Patrick just being a dumbass though. It's entirely speculation regardless, but I always just found the show to be incredibly cruel in general, which is why I could never get into it.
While I'm at it, I also think that Belle is a high-functioning autistic person. Again, I had points for why, but I lost it.
Who's Belle?
His girlfriend's name.
I think Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends is Spidey's best show, and New/MTV Spider-Man his second best.
Beauty and the Beast's Belle.
She reminds me of someone with aspergers because she's obviously very smart, but kind of stuck in her own world and has some slightly awkward skills with people. Which not all autistic/aspergers have exactly, but it does seem like these are some common traits. She also grows out of her fantasy world by the end of the film, which is another common thing with aspergers syndrome. You either grow out of the traits almost entirely or not at all when you're around her age.
I'm probably putting too much thought into this though.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 11, 2012, 12:50:02 PM
I find that remark kind of insulting to autistic people. I know some autistic people personally, and that's nowhere close to what their condition is like, even from a comedic point of view.
So do I, and yes, Patrick does not act like any actual human being would, autistic or otherwise. But I'm curious to see Avaitor's explanation on the matter; Spongebob and especially FOP are
very mean-spirited shows and I figure he might be on to something when he says that the characters are intended as cruel jokes.
Wait, see, that's the part I don't agree with. FOP is a mean spirited show. How is SB a mean-spirited show, though? I mean, some episodes might be like that, but most of the show is harmless more than anything else. SB and Patrick usually get happy endings, and the characters that have bad stuff happen to them are usually the ones who deserve it, like Squidward or Mr. Krabs. I don't really find that mean-spirited. With FOP, its mean-spirited because the writers just have characters go through a lot of bad stuff for no reason other than they think its funny (which its not, its just obnoxious and lazy writing). With SB, its usually a pretty harmless show, and it rarely ever gets to the point of having bad shit happen just for the sake of it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't really like the show enough to be saying that its good or anything of that sort, but I just don't get that particular point of it being mean-spirited, as it never came off that way to me.
Hm... Maybe I do need to watch some of it again. I can't really remember any specific examples, just that some parts seemed a bit cruel to me for a kids' show. I think my opinion on FOP might be clouding my judgment of other Nicktoons from that time period. :lol:
While I'm still working on my argument, I will say that the show can be pretty harsh to Squidward sometimes, in that he doesn't always have an agenda against Spongebob when he gets his comeuppance. There's a fair amount of stories where he gets attacked just for wanting to have some peace and quiet while SpongeBob and Patrick are messing around.
To be fair, though, even in those stories he usually is responsible for making the situation worse for himself by trying to take out his frustrations on SB or Patrick, even if they didn't cause it. And there are plenty of episodes featuring him trying to screw over one of those other characters for no reason other than his personal entertainment, so in general Squidward does come off as an overly angry and nasty character that more often than not ends up deserving what comes to him.
There was that episode with Patrick's parents where Pat ends up believing his own lies and starts making fun of SpongeBob. That's as close to Fairly Oddparents cruelty as I can think of.
Here's an opinion I have that's not very popular. I don't really care for the "Meet the Beat-Alls" episode of The Powerpuff Girls. So many fans say it's one of their favorite episodes, I always see it brought up as one of the best, but I just really don't find it that amusing. The episode, to me, just comes off as one long, drawn out joke. "Look, we said the title of another Beatles song!" Referencing for the sake of referencing isn't that funny to me.
The Yoko Ono thing with Mojo was pretty funny, I guess, but as a whole I find the episode itself to be incredibly overrated.
I thought the entertaining part of the episode came from the whole spoof of the cliche rock band. In this case you have a group of super-villains that find out they work really well together and become extremely successful for a while, but then they start getting full of themselves and do stupid things and end up breaking up and becoming chumps again. In that regard it was a pretty entertaining episode.
I do agree, though, that its not really one of the series' best. I don't see why people love it as much as they do. Its a good episode, but I personally don't consider it a classic.
Zoidberg sucks.
Courage and Case Closed are better than Scooby Doo.
Scooby Doo sucks.
Except for 13 Ghosts and Zombie Island. Those are perfect.
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 12, 2012, 09:51:29 PM
Zoidberg sucks.
Hasn't that always been the case.
QuoteCourage and Case Closed are better than Scooby Doo.
That's not really an unpopular opinion.
QuoteScooby Doo sucks.
Same as above.
QuoteExcept for 13 Ghosts and Zombie Island. Those are perfect.
I liked 13 ghosts back when I watched it as a kid, and that's probably the best that the Scooby-Doo franchise has ever had to offer, but I have no idea if it holds up at all, now.
I don't think that Zombie Island holds up, though. I liked that as a kid as well, but I saw it back when they re-aired it on Cartoon Network back in 2005 (I think it was in that year, or somewhere around that general time-frame) and it came off as pretty lame when I watched it again.
:burn: Zombie Island is the pinnacle of Scooby Doo!
I thought Futurama fans loved Zoidberg?
I seriously doubt Courage gets enough love for it to be a popular opinion that it's superior to SB.
Fuck Zombie Island. We got Mystery Inc now.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 13, 2012, 12:06:42 AM
Fuck Zombie Island. We got Mystery Inc now.
:D Keep your trap fetish Freddy and Velgy or whatever they call that relationship. I'll take something that actually had the balls to go through with having actual monsters and not end up just being more Scooby unmasking middle aged people.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 13, 2012, 12:06:42 AM
Fuck Zombie Island. We got Mystery Inc now.
Mystery Inc makes me wanna get a lobotomy.
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on August 13, 2012, 01:41:50 AM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 13, 2012, 12:06:42 AM
Fuck Zombie Island. We got Mystery Inc now.
Mystery Inc makes me wanna get a lobotomy.
Well, that's because you're a contrarian. Now go off and watch What's New, Scooby Doo?
Say what you will about the new Scooby Doo show; I enjoy it a lot more than most of the boring shit they've done before, barring a few of the movies.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 13, 2012, 01:44:15 AM
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on August 13, 2012, 01:41:50 AM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 13, 2012, 12:06:42 AM
Fuck Zombie Island. We got Mystery Inc now.
Mystery Inc makes me wanna get a lobotomy.
Well, that's because you're a contrarian. Now go off and watch What's New, Scooby Doo?
I've seen enough episodes to know its not for me. The characters are no longer the flat goody two shoes they used to be, but the obnoxious shipping drama really ruins the dynamic of the show and is always front and center. Every 5 minutes Velma or Daphne or sometimes Scooby act like complete bitches towards 2 dumbass dudes. The villains themselves are no more creative than the old series, they simply look less cheesy. I think there was an overall mystery running through the series, but as far as I saw, fuck all came of it.
I seriously hope the next series tries harder.
...I still like that Harlan Ellison's a character in it. :(
13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo is garbage, or at least as much garbage as the rest of the franchise. Don't know why people on the Internet love it so much.
It's all about the Pup. That's the only one I really like.
Quote from: Comeau on August 13, 2012, 03:03:21 AM
13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo is garbage, or at least as much garbage as the rest of the franchise. Don't know why people on the Internet love it so much.
Vincent Price.
I've never been a fan of Scooby-Doo anything but I find more enjoyment in Mystery Inc. than I have in anything Scooby related in the past.
I by no means go out of my way to watch Mystery Inc. though but, the few episodes I've seen, I've enjoyed. I particularly liked the one where Scooby teamed up with Jabberjaw, Captain Caveman, Speed Buggy, Funky Phantom, and such to find his missing friends.
On the subject of overrated episodes of TV shows, my vote goes for the episode of X-Men: Evolution titled "A Walk on the Wild Side". I honestly don't understand why so many fanfic writers want to write their own version(s) of this episode. Sure, it gives the X-Women (or X-Girls, in this case) something to do, but this episode had it's share of plot holes which are very noticeable when watched in reruns. Such as how Rogue and Shadowcat just arbitrarily show up during the musical number with no explantion or narrative and then are just there for the rest of the episode as if they had been Bayville Sirens from the very beginning. It's like the shows' writers already had the finished script and then someone said "OK, now we have to stick Rogue and Kitty in there because they're regulars and they have to appear every week". The "Girl Power" music video that was included in this episode in particular just screamed "wanna be cool".
I'm not saying that I hated "A Walk on the Wild Side"; it's a tolerable filler episode, but it's not the masterpiece in miniature that XME fans make it out to be. See also the Superman:TAS episode, "Girls Night Out".
Is it unpopular to go, "Stop making up new plot threads and start resolving the ones you already have!" when watching Young Justice? Because honestly, it does feel like Weisman's been taking some notes from Damon Lindelof and Chris Carter on how to write an arc.
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on August 13, 2012, 02:00:11 AM
but the obnoxious shipping drama really ruins the dynamic of the show and is always front and center. Every 5 minutes Velma or Daphne or sometimes Scooby act like complete bitches towards 2 dumbass dudes.
Admittedly, this
is a problem with the show. It's as if the writers are trying to be ballsy about showing that they can take the cast this far in the relationship department, but they always overdo it and it falls flat on its face. That ongoing plot about the old Mystery Inc. is still going on though, and the episode I saw recently seemed to be digging deeper into it with Fred's real parents being there. And I really like that aspect of the show.
Like Eddy, I don't really go out of my way to watch it. I was surprised that they were making new episodes actually. But I'm glad they are.
Yeah, 13 Ghosts has Vincent Price, which makes it considerably more watchable than a good part of the franchise. He can make anything at least tolerable. no matter how bad the script is.
I honestly think the original Where Are You? series is not bad, just horribly, horribly overplayed. Even then, the show was still considerably weaker than the Flintstones or Jetsons.
And I was quite enjoying Mystery Inc at first, but the relationship aspect seemed to suck out all of the fun in it. So much so that I never even finished the first season.
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 13, 2012, 12:05:03 AM
Zombie Island is the pinnacle of Scooby Doo!
Quote from: Comeau on August 13, 2012, 03:03:21 AM
It's all about the Pup.
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on August 13, 2012, 02:00:11 AM
Mystery Inc makes me wanna get a lobotomy.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 13, 2012, 10:28:37 AM
Yeah, 13 Ghosts has Vincent Price, which makes it considerably more watchable than a good part of the franchise. He can make anything at least tolerable. no matter how bad the script is.
I honestly think the original Where Are You? series is not bad, just horribly, horribly overplayed. Even then, the show was still considerably weaker than the Flintstones or Jetsons.
I don't even have to write a post when you guys say all of my opinions for me first!
Quote from: Comeau on August 13, 2012, 03:03:21 AM
13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo is garbage, or at least as much garbage as the rest of the franchise. Don't know why people on the Internet love it so much.
Nostalgia, most likely. That and Vincent Price.
QuoteIt's all about the Pup. That's the only one I really like.
A Pup Named Scooby-Doo? I always found that to be one of the worst iterations of the series, personally, but to be fair I barely remember it, just like how I barely remember any of the franchise.
Pup is worth watching today just to see how Tom Ruegger's format started off and expanded over the years. Primarily if you're a fan of his Warner work.
Quote from: Nel on August 13, 2012, 01:45:25 AMSay what you will about the new Scooby Doo show; I enjoy it a lot more than most of the boring shit they've done before, barring a few of the movies.
I don't hate the show or anything. I just couldn't get into it after multiple attempts to do so. Like Adventure Time, it's not my kind of thing but I can understand why it's liked. And it's certainly better than modern crap like the Shaggy & Scooby *shudders*
Quote from: Comeau on August 13, 2012, 03:03:21 AM13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo is garbage, or at least as much garbage as the rest of the franchise. Don't know why people on the Internet love it so much. It's all about the Pup. That's the only one I really like.
Pup's next in line for me, Commode. I don't necessarily love either 13 Ghosts or Pup, they were more like good distractions for me, especially 13 Ghosts which they seemed to show every here and there making it never overstay its welcome. So, only Zombie Island is loved by me. Now if only Mystery Inc. was basically a tv series in that vein.
Quote from: Eddy on August 13, 2012, 03:11:32 AMI've never been a fan of Scooby-Doo anything but I find more enjoyment in Mystery Inc. than I have in anything Scooby related in the past. I by no means go out of my way to watch Mystery Inc. though but, the few episodes I've seen, I've enjoyed. I particularly liked the one where Scooby teamed up with Jabberjaw, Captain Caveman, Speed Buggy, Funky Phantom, and such to find his missing friends.
:o Why am I not watching this right now?
Quote from: Foggle on August 13, 2012, 11:31:43 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 13, 2012, 12:05:03 AM
Zombie Island is the pinnacle of Scooby Doo!
:thumbup:
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 13, 2012, 09:03:01 AM
Is it unpopular to go, "Stop making up new plot threads and start resolving the ones you already have!" when watching Young Justice? Because honestly, it does feel like Weisman's been taking some notes from Damon Lindelof and Chris Carter on how to write an arc.
Yeah, that's my main problem with season 2 as well. I'm guessing its a result of other writers contributing to the show as well, rather than just Weisman by himself, because Weisman has never been guilty of doing this before. I mean, both Gargoyles and TSSM had the introduction of other plot-lines while another main plot was in progress, but neither of those shows had a problem in making up their minds on which main plot-line they wanted to follow at any given time. With Young Justice it feels like its not satisfied only telling 1 or even 2 plot-sets at once, so it throws a bunch of them at us at once, and then I simultaneously lose interest in all of them.
The 90's X-Men show may not really hold up, but it has what might just be the coolest theme song ever IMO.
Actually, I think a lot of people like the theme song. Its the show itself that doesn't hold up.
As for an unpopular opinion on X-Men, I never liked Evolution. I've watched well past the season 1 episodes, and I still didn't really care for it. The characters aren't really that likable, the animation is average (and I don't care for the art design, personally), and it had some great story ideas but I always felt that the execution was pretty lacking. Personally I find it to be an overrated superhero cartoon, and I think we've seen much better out there.
Another unpopular opinion I have relates to Sonic. I've noticed that Sonic SatAM is apparently really popular among a lot of people on the Internet. I guess it must be one of those nostalgia things, because I tried to watch a handful of different episodes from each season and I thought that they all sucked. The writing was extremely cheesy, none of the characters felt right (ESPECIALLY Sonic and Tails), and the voice acting was pretty terrible. I have no idea why the Nostalgia Critic praised it so much in that one review of his. Its really no better than that other crappy Sonic cartoon from around the same time, IMO.
Speaking of SatAM. I honestly think X, for all of its faults (which there are A LOT) is a better show than Satam is, and it still isn't that good.
Honestly, I think the only Sonic cartoon that's really any good is the two-part OVA (which was apparently supposed to be the start of an entire anime in that setting, but never took off).
SatAM's okay. All of what EK said is true, but I give it credit for having some solid stories and decent atmosphere.
I honestly think that the comics did most of what the show wanted to better though. But even that's a pain to read more often than not.
I always was more of a fan of the cartoony Sonic than the SatAM one. I just found Sonic and everyone in that cartoon more fun and enjoyable to watch in Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. Then again, I always liked Scratch and Grounder as a kid.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 13, 2012, 10:05:44 PM
SatAM's okay. All of what EK said is true, but I give it credit for having some solid stories and decent atmosphere.
This. As someone who loved the show as a kid, it doesn't really hold up, but the concept and atmosphere were great. But it is not worse than Sonic X.
Comics have been better since Ian Flynn took over writing. Lately I think it's been in a rut (hence why I stopped subscribing; quit trying to outdo the epicness of each previous arc because you keep falling flat on your face) but it's nowhere near as unbearably bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Unless you're talking post-Sonic Adventure adaptation to issue #159. That's the shit era.
To the comics actually attempt to adapt the story of the classic Genesis-era games? If they did that, then I'd be interested in reading those story arcs.
#226-229 cover Sonic 1 and 2 in a really awkward dimensional shift, with the SatAm cast along for the ride. Maybe you'd like it as a newcomer. Some people (i.e. me) didn't because that dimensional shift interrupted a massive cliffhanger, and the payoff was crap. I believe #13 was a very basic adaption of Sonic 3, as Robotnik tricks Knuckles similar to how he does in the game. The Sonic Quest miniseries features the Death Egg drowning Angel Island, but that's about it. #6 covered Spinball, though it was in the comic's early goofy days, and there was a Triple Trouble special comic back in the 90s.
Most of the game adaptations nowadays specifically state that they are non-comic canon, seem to have been written in a rush and usually end with "play the game to find out how it ends hurr!"
If you want a really cool adaption of Sonic 1, read Sonic X #10 and 11. Eggman traps the group in a virtual reality thing, and they basically have to "play" their way through Sonic 1, even fighting an Eggman simulation that uses the same boss designs. That was far more interesting than what the comic I mentioned above did.
I like Sonic SatAM but it's mostly due to nostalgia of watching it Saturday mornings as a kid. Truth be told, the series has not aged very well and feels very dated with all of its mondo-90s lingo. I think it's an alright cartoon but not worthy of being called one of the greatest of all time like so many Sonic fans seem to think it is.
To be honest, through Netflix, I've had more fun rewatching The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. It's more goofy, silly, and pretty freaking weird but it feels a lot more like how a Sonic cartoon should feel. The games were bright, colorful, and cheerful much like AoStH. Not drab, dark, and dreary like SatAM.
AoStH Robotnik is the greatest incarnation of that guy ever. Every single line of his is gold.
I think SatAM Robotnik is a tad overrated. Other than a metal arm and being voiced by Jim Cummings, he really didn't have anything going for him, and his characterization pretty much boiled down to "Generic Evil Overlord #30485340". Yet, people tend to praise him for being "dark and serious" or whatever. I find Eggbotnik's other incarnations to be more entertaining to watch.
I also don't find Azula all that great of a villain either (and even more overrated). I usually love the "evil manipulator" archetype, but Azula came across as more irritating than clever or sinister to me. And she just came off as way too cliche.
IMO Jim Cummings does a great job with SatAM Robotnik's voice (he can turn the most average of dialogue into something completely sinister), but that's about the only thing memorable when it comes to that rendition of the character. Otherwise, yeah, that version is pretty boring.
...and yeah, count me in as another who liked AoSTH more than SatAM, as a whole. A lot of the jokes are incredibly corny, and it's definitely a product of it's time (both Sonic shows just ooze everything 90's, really) but it still has its moments, and when I last watched a bit of it, it actually doesn't date quite as badly as I thought it would.
I should buy the DVD's one of these days, now that I'm reminded of it. You know, just because.
I don't really like either show, though I never watched SatAM when I was a kid, but I did watch AoStH. For what its worth, though, I thought that the Notalgia Critic's review of the former show to be overpraising it way too much, whereas he went way too hard on the latter show, as its not nearly as crappy as he made it out to be (I mean, its not Mario Super Show or Captain N level bad).
I actually like The Super Mario Bros. Super Show because it's so bad. And Harvey Atkin was great as Koopa/Bowser.
I am not ashamed to own the entire series on DVD. I also have SatAM. I guess I should get AoStH too.
Well, I suppose I can see how you'd like it in that vein. I could at least see the live-action segments as having "so bad its good" quality, but I guess the animated portions just didn't do it for me, either way.
Quote from: Rynnec on August 15, 2012, 12:00:26 AM
I think SatAM Robotnik is a tad overrated. Other than a metal arm and being voiced by Jim Cummings, he really didn't have anything going for him, and his characterization pretty much boiled down to "Generic Evil Overlord #30485340". Yet, people tend to praise him for being "dark and serious" or whatever. I find Eggbotnik's other incarnations to be more entertaining to watch.
I also don't find Azula all that great of a villain either (and even more overrated). I usually love the "evil manipulator" archetype, but Azula came across as more irritating than clever or sinister to me. And she just came off as way too cliche.
Azula is extremely overrated and cliched, just like Katara.
Avatar is cliche in general. :awesome:
Quote from: Avaitor on August 15, 2012, 12:38:23 PM
Avatar is cliche in general. :awesome:
Well, duh. It is basically the result of Mike and Bryan binging on a ton of anime and deciding to take the best parts for their own creation.
I can respect Avatar well enough, but can't for the life of me see why people think its one of the best animated series of all time. I just don't think its on that high of a level of quality. I mean, maybe if I watch the 3rd season it'll some how miraculously change my mind, but from what I've seen, I think that we placed the show on a more than fair spot on our animation list, yet so many people were saying that it deserves to be in at least the top 20, which I just can't see myself ever really agreeing with, personally.
Possibly since it stands out so much in comparison to other Nicktoons.
The thing is, the third season is like half filler. So little of what happens in the first half shows up in the second, which is considerably better, but even then it has a disappointing finale.
If you didn't like season 2, you might as well stop there.
Well, I haven't watched the show in a while, and was considering re-watching it on Netflix, but yeah, I can't say that it was one of my favorites back when I watched it as it aired on Nick. I thought that it was enjoyable enough, but I never felt that compelled to keep watching it, either.
It is one of the best Nicktoons ever.
Korra's better, IMO.
As for the Sonic discussion, the only animated Sonic show that did it right was the OVA, IMO. It was funny, fast, good action, and the plot was just serious and jokey enough to work. It also was the best looking with the most creative art-style and music. It's a real shame it never got a proper show since it was leagues ahead of the other Sonic shows. IMO, it just needed a better dub.
I have no complaints about Korra besides the Team Avatar teamup episode's bad pacing, the finale's pacing and the fact that the villain has no personality.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 15, 2012, 04:47:25 PM
Korra's better, IMO.
As for the Sonic discussion, the only animated Sonic show that did it right was the OVA, IMO. It was funny, fast, good action, and the plot was just serious and jokey enough to work. It also was the best looking with the most creative art-style and music. It's a real shame it never got a proper show since it was leagues ahead of the other Sonic shows. IMO, it just needed a better dub.
Was that the OVA that featured Metal Sonic as the main villain? Because that's the only one that I've seen, but I do agree that its pretty much the best Sonic cartoon out there (at least that I know of).
I could never get into Avatar myself. It just never grabbed me and I didn't get why it was so praised.
I was enjoying Korra a lot more, but I sort of lost interest/forgot about it after a few episodes. Maybe I'll catch up on it one day.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 15, 2012, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 15, 2012, 04:47:25 PM
Korra's better, IMO.
As for the Sonic discussion, the only animated Sonic show that did it right was the OVA, IMO. It was funny, fast, good action, and the plot was just serious and jokey enough to work. It also was the best looking with the most creative art-style and music. It's a real shame it never got a proper show since it was leagues ahead of the other Sonic shows. IMO, it just needed a better dub.
Was that the OVA that featured Metal Sonic as the main villain? Because that's the only one that I've seen, but I do agree that its pretty much the best Sonic cartoon out there (at least that I know of).
That's the one. It's such a shame that it never got made into a full show, since more than the comics or any of the other shows it was the closest to match the games.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 15, 2012, 06:19:46 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 15, 2012, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 15, 2012, 04:47:25 PM
Korra's better, IMO.
As for the Sonic discussion, the only animated Sonic show that did it right was the OVA, IMO. It was funny, fast, good action, and the plot was just serious and jokey enough to work. It also was the best looking with the most creative art-style and music. It's a real shame it never got a proper show since it was leagues ahead of the other Sonic shows. IMO, it just needed a better dub.
Was that the OVA that featured Metal Sonic as the main villain? Because that's the only one that I've seen, but I do agree that its pretty much the best Sonic cartoon out there (at least that I know of).
That's the one. It's such a shame that it never got made into a full show, since more than the comics or any of the other shows it was the closest to match the games.
Instead we got...Sonic X. :wth:
I really hope the next Sonic show will have writing that's at least TMNT2k3-level quality.
Quote from: Rynnec on August 15, 2012, 06:28:20 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 15, 2012, 06:19:46 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 15, 2012, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 15, 2012, 04:47:25 PM
Korra's better, IMO.
As for the Sonic discussion, the only animated Sonic show that did it right was the OVA, IMO. It was funny, fast, good action, and the plot was just serious and jokey enough to work. It also was the best looking with the most creative art-style and music. It's a real shame it never got a proper show since it was leagues ahead of the other Sonic shows. IMO, it just needed a better dub.
Was that the OVA that featured Metal Sonic as the main villain? Because that's the only one that I've seen, but I do agree that its pretty much the best Sonic cartoon out there (at least that I know of).
That's the one. It's such a shame that it never got made into a full show, since more than the comics or any of the other shows it was the closest to match the games.
Instead we got...Sonic X. :wth:
I really hope the next Sonic show will have writing that's at least TMNT2k3-level quality.
Given that Sonic is more popular here, I'm expecting the next one to be a US made show.
To be honest, Japan doesn't really make anime like that OVA anymore, so if we got a show it would probably be as stiff and lifeless as Sonic X was, and no one really wants another Sonic X.
Why do I get the feeling that most of the people involved with making these various Sonic shows have never even picked up a classic 2D Sonic game? Sonic X doesn't even feel that much like the current games from what I've seen of it, but it does take their extended cast of characters and seems to generally loosely adapt some plot-lines from the later Sonic games. Even so, the few episodes I've watched felt like the most "un-Sonic" Sonic related thing that I've ever seen, if that makes any sense.
I always thought that the best idea for a Sonic series would be to start from scratch with Sonic starting up alone to fight Eggman who is terrorizing the planet. Gradually he could gain allies like he did in the classic games and the later games as well, from Tails and Knuckles to the rest of the extended cast of Sonic characters. I think that'd make for a great Sonic series, if it were handled by good writers and competent animators.
Yeah, a good Sonic cartoon should be like the OVA was, which could have been its own Sonic game. Adventuring through mysterious locations, speeding after Dr. Robotnik, making some funny sight gags and 'cool' dialogue, and hopefully less "real world" locations. While I don't mind some of them, basically putting Sonic on earth loses a lot of potentially cool things like Little Planet, or Angel Island.
I don't see how people praise The Simpsons Shorts from the Tracy Ullman show as having the only worthwhile animation in the series. First of all, if you're judging the show on the quality of animation you're wrong, but aside from that the animation from the Shorts is so jarring and ugly. It does have its charm, because it's pretty much Matt's Life in Hell in animated form, but I'll take the animation from about seasons 4-8 where they finally got it right and the character designs got streamlined.
Besides, the best animation from the franchise is the two music videos from early in the series.
You know, after a decade of watching the stuff, I don't consider anime weird. In fact, it's probably one of the most conservative mediums of entertainment I've ever seen.
I don't see how anime could be generalized as "weird" in the first place, except to ignorant haters who just think that anything that follows a different general style than what they're used to seeing automatically classified as weird. Weird is a completely subjective term, anyways. There are certain anime that I consider weird, just like there is western animation that I consider weird, but I definitely wouldn't consider one style of animation to be weird in general.
As for me, I was kind of raised on a lot of anime, so it doesn't really feel as foreign to me as it might to other people. I was always used to watching it along with my favorite western cartoons, so its basically just another kind of animation, as far as I'm concerned.
Now, as for a particular anime that I've always considered weird, I'd have to go with FLCL, but to me its not really weird in the amusing sort of way, but more-so in the obnoxious sort of way, where the creators are so obviously just trying to make it stand-out without putting too much actual substance into it (IMO).
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I no longer get why Goliath didn't let Macbeth kill Demona in City of Stone. I know, cycle of revenge and all. But at this point, with both of them being a thousand years old, and Demona making it quite clear that she's beyond saving (not counting 2198 until it finally gets realized), it probably would've been better to end her misery.
Goliath's just not a killer, plain and simple, and he isn't the type to just let someone else die either, good or bad. Demona is tragically evil, and he knows that there is nothing that he can do to make her revert back to her former self, but as his former love and someone who was once part of his clan, its not as though he'd just stand back and watch her get killed if he could do something to stop it.
That and I don't think Weisman wanted to kill her off.
You know, a lot of the problems I have with MLP doesn't seem to exist in Gravity Falls. The bogus lessons are cut down, the characters all seem to get more time to shine, no one is as much of a bitch as Rainbow Dash, and there has been no usage of pony as an adjective.
Both shows still have a major problem with pandering to the online fanbase, but at least there isn't a Derpy Hooves or DJ Pon3 in GF yet.
Hence my review.
Which still has me hoping thy continue to cut down on the pandering like they seem to be doing.
Probably not, since the staff probably already knows that they have a following outside of the main demos
If anything, that'll cause more pandering.
Hope they'll listen to how nobody likes Pacifica though.
Okay, how is Gravity Falls pandering to online audience? I never understood that argument.
And aside from Derpy Hooves (who only appears in the backgrounds anyway except for that one time), My Little Pony isn't THAT bad in that regards.
Quote from: Mr. Big on August 26, 2012, 09:27:51 PM
Okay, how is Gravity Falls pandering to online audience? I never understood that argument.
This, maybe? (http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9c761xv6s1raii87o1_500.gif)
I dunno. I do notice occasionally references to memes and such, but I never found it overly distracting myself. And yeah, most of the recent episodes have been largely devoid of this kind of stuff anyway; it was really only the very early couple of episodes that I thought this may become an issue down the road (but again, it doesn't look like it is, as they've really cut down on it; if anything, Pacifica and Robbie now stand as the shows two biggest roadblocks moving forward, depending on how much they continue to use those characters).
Yeah, I don't feel MLP panders to the fanbase that often. Derpy talked once, but it seems like that's it. From now on she's going to just stick in the background and characters like Derpy or DJ-PON3 popping up in a background shot isn't going to really distract from the show as a whole.
Kenshin vs Soujiro is a horrible fight and Kenshin's master's fight with the giant was much better. The Soujiro fight was mostly reused animation that was drawn out far too long with flashbacks mixed in between it, kind of like how the worst shounen fights of today do it. The only thing they did right was make the flashbacks actually good.
I watched a couple of random episodes of this show with my little sister last weekend when I was back at home. To my surprise, I liked it. The humor is usually genuinely good and the characters are fun and entertaining enough without making the mistake of coming off as either too bland or too mean-spirited like in other contemporary cartoons of this generation. I did only manage to catch 3 episodes, but now I'm interested enough in checking out the whole season if I can get around to it at some point in time.
Pandering includes the vomiting rainbows, the coffee joke, the badly singing 80s tunes into the mirror, and pretty much anything low brow and/or that is constantly repeated.
I'm having problems coming up with examples because pretty much none of the newer episodes have any.
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 28, 2012, 09:17:41 AM
Kenshin vs Soujiro is a horrible fight and Kenshin's master's fight with the giant was much better. The Soujiro fight was mostly reused animation that was drawn out far too long with flashbacks mixed in between it, kind of like how the worst shounen fights of today do it. The only thing they did right was make the flashbacks actually good.
The fight in the manga is probably the best one in the entirety of Rurouni Kenshin.
Kenshin vs Soujiro is a great fight, but admittedly I haven't seen the anime iteration of it in ages. In the manga its definitely one of the best, though.
As for Kenshin's teacher fighting Fuji, it was barely even a fight in the manga. It lasted just a few pages and Hiko Seijuro defeated Fugi with just a single attack.
Personally, my favorite Rurouni Kenshin figt in the unfinished fight between Kenshin and Saito. Its so short yet its the fight that best highlights Kenshin's skills when he reverts back to his old ways of being a flat-out killer. The animation in that fight in the anime is also really superb. The motions are just so damn fluid.
It's a little hard to decipher what really is pandering, I guess.
I think a good example would be to refer to the Big Bang Theory. Sheldon saying "Bazinga!" at least once an episode isn't pandering, but rather appealing to the masses. Sheldon pulling out unnecessary Star Trek or DC references is pandering to its "smarter" following.
Pop culture references are definitely pandering, IMO. There could logically not really be any other purpose than to appeal to people who think mentioning things they know is funny.
But I also think long drawn out jokes are the same, since we're supposed to think the reason it is funny is simply because of how long it is going for- not necessarily how clever or funny it is.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 28, 2012, 05:03:34 PM
It's a little hard to decipher what really is pandering, I guess.
I think a good example would be to refer to the Big Bang Theory. Sheldon saying "Bazinga!" at least once an episode isn't pandering, but rather appealing to the masses. Sheldon pulling out unnecessary Star Trek or DC references is pandering to its "smarter" following.
I'd consider it to be the exact opposite. The random nerd references are part of Sheldon's caricature, while randomly spouting out a catchphrase isn't.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 28, 2012, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on August 28, 2012, 05:03:34 PM
It's a little hard to decipher what really is pandering, I guess.
I think a good example would be to refer to the Big Bang Theory. Sheldon saying "Bazinga!" at least once an episode isn't pandering, but rather appealing to the masses. Sheldon pulling out unnecessary Star Trek or DC references is pandering to its "smarter" following.
I'd consider it to be the exact opposite. The random nerd references are part of Sheldon's caricature, while randomly spouting out a catchphrase isn't.
IMO, they're both pandering.
But then again I think the show is terrible, so here we are! :D
Again, it's a touchy subject, which is why I want to tackle this myself.
Heh, I think I had a feeling that the Soujiro fight was better in the manga.
Kenshin's master's fight wasn't that great but it was certainly better than the Soujiro fight.
Kenshin vs Saito is the greatest fight in the show. It isn't drawn out, (even though it's in two episodes), the build is great and the animation is the most fluid in the show. I loved the way they moved during that fight. So much better than Kenshin screaming, the screen turning black and then bodies drop a second later.
The thing with the Soujiro fight was that it was based on two things, high speed reaction and heavy emotion. Both of which are hard to nail right with the budget of a shonen anime.
The reason I think shows like Regular Show, Adventure Time, and Gravity Falls(disclaimer: only going off of the first episode, the only one I've seen so far) are pandering is because they either reference Internet memes directly, or they have jokes which they know the Internet will latch onto and turn into memes. Regular Show tried so hard to make "Ham boning" a real meme, and thankfully that didn't take off. It's shit like that that gets under my skin. Just write good jokes, you don't need to worry about appeasing a bunch of idiots on the Internet.
Regular Show has been trying to create memes since episode 1, right down to GIVE US A RAISE LOSER.
And I don't think one of them has worked to its advantage.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 28, 2012, 05:08:32 PM
Pop culture references are definitely pandering, except whenever Deadpool or Futurama does it. There could logically not really be any other purpose than to appeal to people who think mentioning things they know is funny.
But I also think long drawn out jokes are the same, since we're supposed to think the reason it is funny is simply because of how long it is going for- not necessarily how clever or funny it is.
*Fixed.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 29, 2012, 10:56:36 AM
Regular Show has been trying to create memes since episode 1, right down to GIVE US A RAISE LOSER.
And I don't think one of them has worked to its advantage.
Not even yeah-yuh?
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 11:49:38 AM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 28, 2012, 05:08:32 PM
Pop culture references are definitely pandering, except whenever Deadpool or Futurama does it. There could logically not really be any other purpose than to appeal to people who think mentioning things they know is funny.
But I also think long drawn out jokes are the same, since we're supposed to think the reason it is funny is simply because of how long it is going for- not necessarily how clever or funny it is.
*Fixed.
That doesn't mean the jokes aren't funny or written well (thought mostly they aren't), just that I consider them pandering.
The CG TMNT movie is better than the 2003 show.
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 05:31:18 PM
The CG TMNT movie is better than the 2003 show.
You shut that whore mouth, this instant.
Deffo don't agree with that. Mike and Don got shortchanged in the movie.
But I do like it better than the second and third movies.
Bishop's easily the best thing about the show (and Fast Forward)
Dragon Ball Z is a bad anime, whether you watch any of the terrible dubs out there (and they are ALL terrible, though at least the FUNimation and Ocean dubs can be entertainingly comical at times, with the latter one being unintentional) or the original Japanese version of the show, its just a horrible mess. As someone who loves the DB manga, the show captures none of the energy of the latter half of the manga and is one of the worst offenders of using cheap-ass budget animation by cutting corners wherever possible and completely fails at capturing any of Toriyama's sense of humor that is present in the original manga. Furthermore, the show just has terrible pacing, even if you take out the filler episodes, and I don't care for either the original Japanese or the Falconer soundtrack (but if I had to pick one, I'd say Falconer's music is slightly more interesting to listen to, even if it doesn't fit the tone of the series).
Dragon Ball Z Kai is an OK anime for cutting out most of the fluff and terrible pacing of the old anime, but the bottom line is that no matter how much you try to remaster and reedit it, the show is basically using a source of badly adapted material with downright bad animation, so it still comes off as a weak show now that I look back on it. The only parts of the DBZ-line of anime that have ever done the series any justice are the Bardock and Trunks specials, IMO, along with just a handful of well done scenes from the TV series that are rare exceptions to the rule of shit.
I used to love the DBZ anime like many people, but now I can see ever more clearly why its shit, and I find it in general to be largely to blame for the type of hate the series gets. I mean, the anime itself deserves the hate, but despite staying true to the story, the actual way it adapts it feels lazy and half-assed at least 90% of the time, and now its no wonder to me why so many people don't "get" the appeal of DB, because most of them have only seen the piece of shit DBZ anime and it leaves a bad taste for the whole series in general.
Its hard to put into words what makes the manga and the original Dragon Ball anime so enjoyable, other than saying that they just feel more fun-spirited and evne though the Dragon Ball anime also suffers from bad animation and cheap budget cuts, it at least feels like that portion of the series had more genuine effort and passion put into it, IMO. Either way, I just feel that DBZ is now a horrible misrepresentation of the DB series as a whole, and it sucks that its the most popular iteration in the entire franchise.
That's not really an unpopular opinion. Pretty much everybody with half a brain knows that DBZ was poorly-animated filler hell, and usually comment on it as such.
NOW YOU FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHERE I WAS COMING FROM SIX YEARS AGO! :lol:
Is it that unpopular? I still need to get the original DB series, but never had any inclination to get the DBZ ones because I just don't like the anime. I honestly don't like the adaption all that much.
Sort of like I'm not all that fond of the RK anime despite it doing a decent adaption of the first two arcs, I didn't like the filler and wasn't too keen on how some aspects were animated, and the last third of the anime is total garbage. It's nowhere near on the level of how bad the DBZ anime is, but I really don't enjoy it all that much as a whole.
You guys say its unpopular, yet I see quite a big community of people on the Internet that defends the DBZ anime, simply just blaming the bad dub of DBZ for its hate.
Perhaps I should rephrase what I mean: DBZ is a bad show even in Japanese. The popular opinion (or at least I believe its pretty popular) is that the Japanese version of the show is some untouchable masterpiece and it was just ruined by bad dubbing, but I just say that it was a bad show to begin with that was made worse by bad dubbing.
Quote from: Foggle on August 29, 2012, 06:03:45 PM
NOW YOU FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHERE I WAS COMING FROM SIX YEARS AGO! :lol:
Well, I always understood why you hated the show. That said, I still feel that Dragon Ball is a great manga. Akira Toriyama was called a genius for a reason. I just feel that what worked out terrific in a manga format just wasn't translated well into animation thanks to lazy efforts.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 06:20:20 PM
Well, I always understood why you hated the show. That said, I still feel that Dragon Ball is a great manga. Akira Toriyama was called a genius for a reason. I just feel that what worked out terrific in a manga format just wasn't translated well into animation thanks to lazy efforts.
At least Dragon Ball will always be good. ;)
Quote from: Foggle on August 29, 2012, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 06:20:20 PM
Well, I always understood why you hated the show. That said, I still feel that Dragon Ball is a great manga. Akira Toriyama was called a genius for a reason. I just feel that what worked out terrific in a manga format just wasn't translated well into animation thanks to lazy efforts.
At least Dragon Ball will always be good. ;)
And we always have GT. .3.
Dragon Ball was always the better half even in the manga (and even Toriyama thinks so), but at least he was still having fun in the DBZ half up until Frieza was beaten.
I also like the Majin Buu arc in the manga for deliberately being a self parody of the "DBZ" portions of the manga while also being a clever throwback to the early half of the manga. The Cell arc definitely sucks, though, whether in the manga or in the anime. It definitely shows that Toriyama was plain sick of writing the series by that point in time.
Cell is a pretty terrible enemy in general. He's just Frieza... again.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:28:09 PM
Cell is a pretty terrible enemy in general. He's just Frieza... again.
And King Piccolo... again.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 06:28:42 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:28:09 PM
Cell is a pretty terrible enemy in general. He's just Frieza... again.
And King Piccolo... again.
Well, at least he had better subordinates! :D
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:28:09 PM
Cell is a pretty terrible enemy in general. He's just Frieza... again.
Actually, Frieza was a good villain because he actually had a distinct personality and at least had some sense of practicality. Cell had zilch personality, and was basically the anti-Goku in that he just loved to fight but he was also evil. That's it. What a boring as hell concept for a villain. Not at all worthy of the build-up that he was given (which ironically was the best part of the Cell arc).
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 06:32:31 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:28:09 PM
Cell is a pretty terrible enemy in general. He's just Frieza... again.
Actually, Frieza was a good villain because he actually had a distinct personality and at least had some sense of practicality. Cell had zilch personality, and was basically the anti-Goku in that he just loved to fight but he was also evil. That's it. What a boring as hell concept for a villain. Not at all worthy of the build-up that he was given (which ironically was the best part of the Cell arc).
Yeah, I liked Frieza since he had charisma and power in his appearance, but Cell pretty much aped his personality but added nothing to the character. Also, the Cell Jr. thing was really lazy.
While I'm not all that found of the Buu arc, he was a way better villain than Cell.
Most of the love Cell gets stems from the fact that he's voiced by Norio Wakamoto, rather than anything about the character himself. While I thought Cell was a fun villain, he was definitely a step down from Frieza.
It's funny, I used to always find Frieza overrated, and much preferred Cell. Of course, that was due to how the dub portrayed Frieza's character, when I saw his more accurate portrayal in the Kai dub, I quickly saw just why Frieza is so well-liked by fans.
However, I do give the Cell Saga credit for developing Gohan's character.
I enjoyed Gohan and Future Trunks, but not much else. What they did to Tenshinhan was just mean to DB fans.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
I enjoyed Gohan and Future Trunks, but not much else. What they did to Tenshinhan was just mean to DB fans.
At least Tien got to
hurt Cell, unlike Krillin, Piccolo, or Yamcha.
I always thought the majority of people that still defend DBZ are just 90's buffs that can't take off the rose-colored glasses, and actually look at the series from an objective viewpoint without nostalgia playing a part. I mean, this is generally what I've come across over the years.
Granted, however, there are definitely more than a few snobby-ass weeaboos who view the Japanese alliteration as some sort of unbridled masterpiece (http://www.kanzenshuu.com/). God only knows why, though.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
I enjoyed Gohan and Future Trunks, but not much else. What they did to Tenshinhan was just mean to DB fans.
But Tien actually got to
do something that arc. :-\
One thing I hate about Future Trunks is that he dropped his unique fighting style after his second fight.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
I enjoyed Gohan and Future Trunks, but not much else. What they did to Tenshinhan was just mean to DB fans.
At least Tien got to hurt Cell, unlike Krillin, Piccolo, or Yamcha.
Yeah, what they did to the non-Saiyan characters after Frieza still annoys me now. Krillin's Ki-enzan (or Destructo Disk.. whatever you prefer) could have sliced through every single character and enemy up to Cell... despite him being far less powerful. Suddenly this move doesn't work which throws the whole "power of chi energy" thing that Toriyama built up with the Namek arc (it was how Vegeta got stronger, after all) and makes it completely useless.
Then again, I don't like how over reliant on Super Saiyans everything became when they're supposed to be rare. Making Vegeta one completely ruined the point of his growth, too.
Quote from: Rynnec on August 29, 2012, 07:00:56 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
I enjoyed Gohan and Future Trunks, but not much else. What they did to Tenshinhan was just mean to DB fans.
But Tien actually got to do something that arc. :-\
One thing I hate about Future Trunks is that he dropped his unique fighting style after his second fight.
He was a distraction. Just like Krillin with the androids. They could have used anyone to fill those slots. They brought in Tien like it was some kind of big deal but NOPE NOT A SUPER SAIYAN!
It also got silly when the villains were so impossible to kill, that letting a single atom of their being survive would automatically let them come back with utterly no decrease in ability.
Yeah, that was one of my big problems with DBZ as well. The Saiyan characters (and the subsequent villains) are essentially Demigods with limitless power that could blow up an entire solar system or two with just a flick of the wrist. It's really kinda insulting to everyone besides Goku that actually played a part in DB or pre-Frieza DBZ. They're all just useless filler (or in the case of Yamcha and Krillin, bad comic relief).
Future Trunks has what is possibly the best new character introduction in the entire Dragon Ball series. They really build his character up. Then Cell steps into the picture and despite making his stronger they basically make his character completely useless against fighting Cell, even among the other Saiyans. It was such a wasted opportunity. I was also pissed when they made the proper timeline Trunks into such a boring character (IMO). I mean, I know as a kid he would be different from his teenage-self, but even then I just missed the total bad-ass that Trunks was in the first half of the Cell arc. At any rate, Future Trunks was easily the best new character that the Cell arc introduced into the series and its a shame that he had to go at the end but I suppose it makes sense that he'd want to return back to his old timeline once the whole ordeal was done with, so I can't really blame Toriyama for writing him out of the story since it was pretty much unavoidable.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 07:04:44 PM
It also got silly when the villains were so impossible to kill, that letting a single atom of their being survive would automatically let them come back with utterly no decrease in ability.
In Cell's case he got stronger! And learned new abilities!... And became Complete again despite not having both androids!
At least Kid Buu was actually weaker than Super Buu.
I still think the scene where Future Trunks first appears and cuts Frieza in half is one of the most badass things ever.
Seeing that for the first time is one of my favorite Toonami moments.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 07:04:44 PM
It also got silly when the villains were so impossible to kill, that letting a single atom of their being survive would automatically let them come back with utterly no decrease in ability.
Actually, in Cell's case he got EVEN STRONGER from doing that (though it was a single "cell" rather than an "atom" to be accurate). How's that for being ridiculous? :sly:
Maybe they should've injected Saiyan blood into all the Z-fighters so they could fight harder. :sly:
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 07:04:44 PM
It also got silly when the villains were so impossible to kill, that letting a single atom of their being survive would automatically let them come back with utterly no decrease in ability.
In Cell's case he got stronger! And learned new abilities!... And became Complete again despite not having both androids!
At least Kid Buu was actually weaker than Super Buu.
Yeah, that was ridiculous.
...and then, in some of the later Buu filler with him and other baddies like Frieza and the Ginyu Force in hell, he's
still Complete. He's dead now; shouldn't he have reverted back to one of his earlier forms by this point? I know this was all filler anyway, and Toriyama probably just didn't give a shit by this point, but still.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 06:00:25 PM
Dragon Ball Z is a bad anime, whether you watch any of the terrible dubs out there (and they are ALL terrible, though at least the FUNimation and Ocean dubs can be entertainingly comical at times, with the latter one being unintentional) or the original Japanese version of the show, its just a horrible mess. As someone who loves the DB manga, the show captures none of the energy of the latter half of the manga and is one of the worst offenders of using cheap-ass budget animation by cutting corners wherever possible and completely fails at capturing any of Toriyama's sense of humor that is present in the original manga. Furthermore, the show just has terrible pacing, even if you take out the filler episodes, and I don't care for either the original Japanese or the Falconer soundtrack (but if I had to pick one, I'd say Falconer's music is slightly more interesting to listen to, even if it doesn't fit the tone of the series).
Dragon Ball Z Kai is an OK anime for cutting out most of the fluff and terrible pacing of the old anime, but the bottom line is that no matter how much you try to remaster and reedit it, the show is basically using a source of badly adapted material with downright bad animation, so it still comes off as a weak show now that I look back on it. The only parts of the DBZ-line of anime that have ever done the series any justice are the Bardock and Trunks specials, IMO, along with just a handful of well done scenes from the TV series that are rare exceptions to the rule of shit.
I used to love the DBZ anime like many people, but now I can see ever more clearly why its shit, and I find it in general to be largely to blame for the type of hate the series gets. I mean, the anime itself deserves the hate, but despite staying true to the story, the actual way it adapts it feels lazy and half-assed at least 90% of the time, and now its no wonder to me why so many people don't "get" the appeal of DB, because most of them have only seen the piece of shit DBZ anime and it leaves a bad taste for the whole series in general.
Its hard to put into words what makes the manga and the original Dragon Ball anime so enjoyable, other than saying that they just feel more fun-spirited and evne though the Dragon Ball anime also suffers from bad animation and cheap budget cuts, it at least feels like that portion of the series had more genuine effort and passion put into it, IMO. Either way, I just feel that DBZ is now a horrible misrepresentation of the DB series as a whole, and it sucks that its the most popular iteration in the entire franchise.
I didn't realize how bad DBZ was until I saw some of the Kai comparison videos (including the Ocean dub. Trunks goes crazy, anyone?) I was like, ' :wth: This used to be my favorite show, period?!'.
I thought you liked the Japanese score better than Falconer's? (Kai uses the Japanese score, I believe)
Tralalala! I can't hear you! Nothing will turn me against Kai. I do love the Bardock mini-movie. The Trunks one was ok. Maybe I'd appreciate it more today even though he's always been my favorite character (well, at least some time after I saw his introduction as a kid) since I do like the character even more today. Still can't get past how dumb Gohan was for not eating a piece of that senzu bean to grow his arm back or the fact that the androids didn't even attempt to make any one armed jokes. I mean, COME ON, it's so easy.
Don't care what anyone says, shit or not, DBZ mostly gets hate thanks to uppity fanboys who think the anime they prefer has better writing than the best of novels.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 07:10:38 PM
Maybe they should've injected Saiyan blood into all the Z-fighters so they could fight harder. :sly:
Maybe the editor-in-chief of Shonen Jump should have just let Toriyama stop writing Dragon Ball when he was finally tired of it....several ultra-long sagas before it actually did finally end.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 29, 2012, 07:08:23 PM
I still think the scene where Future Trunks first appears and cuts Frieza in half is one of the most badass things ever.
Seeing that for the first time is one of my favorite Toonami moments.
It would have been even better if he wasn't a Super Saiyan.
I mean, that would have made it even crazier.
I didn't mind Vegeta being a Super Saiyan, since I thought it was rather ineveitable that he'd become one.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 07:04:07 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on August 29, 2012, 07:00:56 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
I enjoyed Gohan and Future Trunks, but not much else. What they did to Tenshinhan was just mean to DB fans.
But Tien actually got to do something that arc. :-\
One thing I hate about Future Trunks is that he dropped his unique fighting style after his second fight.
He was a distraction. Just like Krillin with the androids. They could have used anyone to fill those slots. They brought in Tien like it was some kind of big deal but NOPE NOT A SUPER SAIYAN!
What they should've done for the non-Saiyan characters, is have them learn a stronger version of the Kaio-ken. It's sudden disappearance was always odd considering how it was hyped up. Plus the red aura was badass.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 07:04:44 PM
It also got silly when the villains were so impossible to kill, that letting a single atom of their being survive would automatically let them come back with utterly no decrease in ability.
That got
really annoying with Majin Buu.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 07:13:57 PM
It would have been even better if he wasn't a Super Saiyan.
I mean, that would have made it even crazier.
To be fair, Trunks had a damn good reason to be Super Saiyan, and if he wasn't, then we wouldn't have gotten that awesome Trunks special explaining how it happened. Though, then again, apparently I'm the only one on this board who thinks that special is awesome. :(
Either way, he has the most bad-ass character introduction in the series, IMO, Super Saiyan or not.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:37:29 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 06:32:31 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:28:09 PM
Cell is a pretty terrible enemy in general. He's just Frieza... again.
Actually, Frieza was a good villain because he actually had a distinct personality and at least had some sense of practicality. Cell had zilch personality, and was basically the anti-Goku in that he just loved to fight but he was also evil. That's it. What a boring as hell concept for a villain. Not at all worthy of the build-up that he was given (which ironically was the best part of the Cell arc).
Yeah, I liked Frieza since he had charisma and power in his appearance, but Cell pretty much aped his personality but added nothing to the character. Also, the Cell Jr. thing was really lazy.
While I'm not all that found of the Buu arc, he was a way better villain than Cell.
:srs: No, get that shit out of here.
Vegeta becoming a Super Saiyan made sense because of his long-time rivalry with Goku. Gohan becoming a Super Saiyan in the ALTERNATE timeline made sense because he needed to, as did Trunks becoming SS after his master Gohan's death. That said, Gohan should NOT have needed to become SS in the proper timeline. I thought it was incredibly stupid of Goku forcing his own son to be the one to defeat Cell, when he probably just could have done it himself with more training or some good strategy or some shit like that. Hell, it would have even been a better end to the arc if Goku ended up taking out Cell when he sacrificed himself to do so, except without Gohan having to be a Super Saiyan and then screwing up in order for him to have to do that. It would have made his self sacrifice seem like a much more desperate thing instead of being like a joke which is what it basically turned out to be since Cell just immediately regenerated himself, anyways.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 07:15:49 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 07:13:57 PM
It would have been even better if he wasn't a Super Saiyan.
I mean, that would have made it even crazier.
To be fair, Trunks had a damn good reason to be Super Saiyan, and if he wasn't, then we wouldn't have gotten that awesome Trunks special explaining how it happened. Though, then again, apparently I'm the only one on this board who thinks that special is awesome. :(
Either way, he has the most bad-ass character introduction in the series, IMO, Super Saiyan or not.
I like that special too. The scene where Trunks transforms into a Super Saiyan for the first time after seeing Gohan's dead body is probably one of my favorite DBZ sequences (the music used in the dub really sold it for me).
And Trunks introduction was awesome, that's a cold hard fact. 8)
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 07:17:28 PM
:srs: No, get that shit out of here.
He turns people into various snack foods to eat them. Your point is invalid. :P
Buu was original, Cell was not.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 07:15:49 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 07:13:57 PM
It would have been even better if he wasn't a Super Saiyan.
I mean, that would have made it even crazier.
To be fair, Trunks had a damn good reason to be Super Saiyan, and if he wasn't, then we wouldn't have gotten that awesome Trunks special explaining how it happened. Though, then again, apparently I'm the only one on this board who thinks that special is awesome. :(
Either way, he has the most bad-ass character introduction in the series, IMO, Super Saiyan or not.
Yeah, he had a good reason, but I just thought it would have made the scene even more shocking.
But no, you're not the only one who likes the Trunks Special, it's the best thing to come out of the Cell arc. The Bardock Special is really good too, and actually makes a good intro to the Namek saga.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 07:19:42 PM
Vegeta becoming a Super Saiyan made sense because of his long-time rivalry with Goku. Gohan becoming a Super Saiyan in the ALTERNATE timeline made sense because he needed to, as did Trunks becoming SS after his master Gohan's death. That said, Gohan should NOT have needed to become SS in the proper timeline. I thought it was incredibly stupid of Goku forcing his own son to be the one to defeat Cell, when he probably just could have done it himself with more training or some good strategy or some shit like that. Hell, it would have even been a better end to the arc if Goku ended up taking out Cell when he sacrificed himself to do so, except without Gohan having to be a Super Saiyan and then screwing up in order for him to have to do that. It would have made his self sacrifice seem like a much more desperate thing instead of being like a joke which is what it basically turned out to be since Cell just immediately regenerated himself, anyways.
To be fair, at least Piccolo called him out on that one.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 07:19:42 PM
Vegeta becoming a Super Saiyan made sense because of his long-time rivalry with Goku. Gohan becoming a Super Saiyan in the ALTERNATE timeline made sense because he needed to, as did Trunks becoming SS after his master Gohan's death. That said, Gohan should NOT have needed to become SS in the proper timeline. I thought it was incredibly stupid of Goku forcing his own son to be the one to defeat Cell, when he probably just could have done it himself with more training or some good strategy or some shit like that. Hell, it would have even been a better end to the arc if Goku ended up taking out Cell when he sacrificed himself to do so, except without Gohan having to be a Super Saiyan and then screwing up in order for him to have to do that. It would have made his self sacrifice seem like a much more desperate thing instead of being like a joke which is what it basically turned out to be since Cell just immediately regenerated himself, anyways.
Almost nothing Goku did in the later reins of the series made sense, though. Whether it was his Batman-like "Thou Shalt Not Kill" bleeding heart complex that stood in the way, or if he was just that dense to everything going on around him, who knows... but honestly, he was incredibly lame as DBZ went forward.
Quote from: Rynnec on August 29, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 07:19:42 PM
Vegeta becoming a Super Saiyan made sense because of his long-time rivalry with Goku. Gohan becoming a Super Saiyan in the ALTERNATE timeline made sense because he needed to, as did Trunks becoming SS after his master Gohan's death. That said, Gohan should NOT have needed to become SS in the proper timeline. I thought it was incredibly stupid of Goku forcing his own son to be the one to defeat Cell, when he probably just could have done it himself with more training or some good strategy or some shit like that. Hell, it would have even been a better end to the arc if Goku ended up taking out Cell when he sacrificed himself to do so, except without Gohan having to be a Super Saiyan and then screwing up in order for him to have to do that. It would have made his self sacrifice seem like a much more desperate thing instead of being like a joke which is what it basically turned out to be since Cell just immediately regenerated himself, anyways.
To be fair, at least Piccolo called him out on that one.
And Goku's kind of stunted when it comes to taking care of his son.
Goku is actually dumber in DBZ. In the first half he would always jump in first ready to fight, he would never use someone else as a punching bag for an enemy.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
I enjoyed Gohan and Future Trunks, but not much else. What they did to Tenshinhan was just mean to DB fans.
At least Tien got to hurt Cell, unlike Krillin, Piccolo, or Yamcha.
And people whine about there being too many Super Saiyans in the Cell saga (OMG! 4! With 3 being established characters and 1 being a really interesting one that got developed) If you want to watch every member of a group be too weak to really do anything, excluding the main character, then go watch Bleach. Not directing this at you but I never understand why people were upset because by the # of Super Saiyans in that arc.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
I enjoyed Gohan and Future Trunks, but not much else. What they did to Tenshinhan was just mean to DB fans.
Funny how SS2 Gohan and Future Trunks were my favorite characters as a kid. I love the Cell saga.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 07:02:37 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
I enjoyed Gohan and Future Trunks, but not much else. What they did to Tenshinhan was just mean to DB fans.
At least Tien got to hurt Cell, unlike Krillin, Piccolo, or Yamcha.
Yeah, what they did to the non-Saiyan characters after Frieza still annoys me now. Krillin's Ki-enzan (or Destructo Disk.. whatever you prefer) could have sliced through every single character and enemy up to Cell... despite him being far less powerful. Suddenly this move doesn't work which throws the whole "power of chi energy" thing that Toriyama built up with the Namek arc (it was how Vegeta got stronger, after all) and makes it completely useless.
Then again, I don't like how over reliant on Super Saiyans everything became when they're supposed to be rare. Making Vegeta one completely ruined the point of his growth, too.
The what now?!
Bleach started that off in the first arc, though. Ichigo is always the only character worth anything.
The problem was that none of the Super Saiyan characters really earned the complete jump in strength. Gohan and Krillin were always around the same strength, even around Namek when they brought to around Zarbon's strength, and him getting relegated to useless because ANDROIDS KNOW EVERYTHING was lame. The same with Piccolo who was as strong as Frieza's second form to suddenly not even be able to harm Cell was insulting.
Yamcha, Tien, and Chaozu I can deal with since they sort of dropped out after Namek (even though fillers made them to be around Ginyu Force strength), but Krillin and Piccolo were major characters that were no push overs (overplayed Krillin jokes aside, he's the strongest human in the whole series) despite overwhelming odds. Seeing them made useless not only made no sense, but it was lazy from a character development standpoint.
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 07:02:37 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
I enjoyed Gohan and Future Trunks, but not much else. What they did to Tenshinhan was just mean to DB fans.
At least Tien got to hurt Cell, unlike Krillin, Piccolo, or Yamcha.
Yeah, what they did to the non-Saiyan characters after Frieza still annoys me now. Krillin's Ki-enzan (or Destructo Disk.. whatever you prefer) could have sliced through every single character and enemy up to Cell... despite him being far less powerful. Suddenly this move doesn't work which throws the whole "power of chi energy" thing that Toriyama built up with the Namek arc (it was how Vegeta got stronger, after all) and makes it completely useless.
Then again, I don't like how over reliant on Super Saiyans everything became when they're supposed to be rare. Making Vegeta one completely ruined the point of his growth, too.
The what now?!
Everyone in the Dragon Ball series who does not embrace their chi (or spirit) energy never grow stronger after a certain point. That's the whole reason Vegeta turned on Frieza since he had finally found a way to grow beyond his limits after seeing how Goku, Krillin, and Gohan did it. It's why everyone was surprised he could beat all of Frieza's men like that. Heck, it's only through training with Roshi and learning the Kamehameha that Goku got any stronger. If he stayed in the forest he would be exactly as weak as Raditz thought he was.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 29, 2012, 07:08:23 PM
I still think the scene where Future Trunks first appears and cuts Frieza in half is one of the most badass things ever.
Seeing that for the first time is one of my favorite Toonami moments.
Loved watching Trunks slice Frieza into little pieces and then blow away the floating pieces in the uncut version. Damn good way to avenge his grandfather. :thumbup:
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 07:42:17 PM
The what now?!
I think Spark is referring to the whole "sensing energy" thing that made the scouter's obsolete. Not sure what that has to do with the Destructo Disk though.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 07:44:28 PM
Bleach started that off in the first arc, though. Ichigo is always the only character worth anything.
Not
quite, but that's for another time.
Quote
The problem was that none of the Super Saiyan characters really earned the complete jump in strength. Gohan and Krillin were always around the same strength, even around Namek when they brought to around Zarbon's strength, and him getting relegated to useless because ANDROIDS KNOW EVERYTHING was lame. The same with Piccolo who was as strong as Frieza's second form to suddenly not even be able to harm Cell was insulting.
I thought that Piccolo
could defeat Cell, it's just that Cell was more powerful than he expected, and by the time he adjusted, Cell fled the scene?
QuoteYamcha, Tien, and Chaozu I can deal with since they sort of dropped out after Namek (even though fillers made them to be around Ginyu Force strength), but Krillin and Piccolo were major characters that were no push overs (overplayed Krillin jokes aside, he's the strongest human in the whole series) despite overwhelming odds. Seeing them made useless not only made no sense, but it was lazy from a character development standpoint.
I think a large part of that is because neither Piccolo or Krillin really had any opportunity to show their skills. Imperfect Cell alway avoided direct fights with the Z fighters, and Imperfect Cell's second form was too powerful to have Krillin do any good against him. Piccolo possibly could've been a match for Cell's second form, but he was too worn out from his battle with 17 to be too effective.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 07:19:42 PM
Vegeta becoming a Super Saiyan made sense because of his long-time rivalry with Goku. Gohan becoming a Super Saiyan in the ALTERNATE timeline made sense because he needed to, as did Trunks becoming SS after his master Gohan's death. That said, Gohan should NOT have needed to become SS in the proper timeline. I thought it was incredibly stupid of Goku forcing his own son to be the one to defeat Cell, when he probably just could have done it himself with more training or some good strategy or some shit like that. Hell, it would have even been a better end to the arc if Goku ended up taking out Cell when he sacrificed himself to do so, except without Gohan having to be a Super Saiyan and then screwing up in order for him to have to do that. It would have made his self sacrifice seem like a much more desperate thing instead of being like a joke which is what it basically turned out to be since Cell just immediately regenerated himself, anyways.
:wth: I liked it better when you liked the ending of the Cell saga with how Goku stayed dead and let his son be his successor.
Quote from: Rynnec on August 29, 2012, 07:57:40 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 07:42:17 PM
The what now?!
I think Spark is referring to the whole "sensing energy" thing that made the scouter's obsolete. Not sure what that has to do with the Destructo Disk though.
Remember back when Raditz showed up? Remember when he read Goku's power level with the Kamehameha and Piccolo's with his attack they both tripled and quadrupled in strength? That was because they focused their energy and spirit into one channeled attack. When Vegeta did it against Goku it was useless because it only used force, while Goku had the Kaio Ken, his own spirit energy, and the planet on his side. Vegeta was stronger than Goku in the entire fight, but it was because of his techniques and mastery of spirit energy that he beat Vegeta with his friends. He did not win on strength, and Vegeta couldn't understand it until he studied it himself.
Anyway, that tangent aside, the Destructo Disk is probably the strongest, but slowest, spirit attack in the series. Being that it was the only one that would have actually killed Nappa when none of the others came close to even hurting him. It even sliced Frieza's tail right off. So making possibly the best technique in the series that didn't rely purely on brute strength useless was a disappointment. And that it came from the "joke character" made it all the better.
QuoteQuote
The problem was that none of the Super Saiyan characters really earned the complete jump in strength. Gohan and Krillin were always around the same strength, even around Namek when they brought to around Zarbon's strength, and him getting relegated to useless because ANDROIDS KNOW EVERYTHING was lame. The same with Piccolo who was as strong as Frieza's second form to suddenly not even be able to harm Cell was insulting.
I thought that Piccolo could defeat Cell, it's just that Cell was more powerful than he expected, and by the time he adjusted, Cell fled the scene?
I'd like to say I know the answer, but there's so much useless dialogue in this arc that it's hard to parse through. :sweat:
QuoteQuoteYamcha, Tien, and Chaozu I can deal with since they sort of dropped out after Namek (even though fillers made them to be around Ginyu Force strength), but Krillin and Piccolo were major characters that were no push overs (overplayed Krillin jokes aside, he's the strongest human in the whole series) despite overwhelming odds. Seeing them made useless not only made no sense, but it was lazy from a character development standpoint.
I think a large part of that is because neither Piccolo or Krillin really had any opportunity to show their skills. Imperfect Cell alway avoided direct fights with the Z fighters, and Imperfect Cell's second form was too powerful to have Krillin do any good against him. Piccolo possibly could've been a match for Cell's second form, but he was too worn out from his battle with 17 to be too effective.
That's what I mean though, the gaps in strength in this series were just too strange and pointlessly wide because Toriyama had to make everything stacked against Super Saiyans and not on a normal scale. It basically just brought the fights into being one-sided slug-fights that were rather boring to watch, Future Trunks' first appearances aside.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 07:44:28 PM
Bleach started that off in the first arc, though. Ichigo is always the only character worth anything.
The problem was that none of the Super Saiyan characters really earned the complete jump in strength. Gohan and Krillin were always around the same strength, even around Namek when they brought to around Zarbon's strength, and him getting relegated to useless because ANDROIDS KNOW EVERYTHING was lame. The same with Piccolo who was as strong as Frieza's second form to suddenly not even be able to harm Cell was insulting.
Yamcha, Tien, and Chaozu I can deal with since they sort of dropped out after Namek (even though fillers made them to be around Ginyu Force strength), but Krillin and Piccolo were major characters that were no push overs (overplayed Krillin jokes aside, he's the strongest human in the whole series) despite overwhelming odds. Seeing them made useless not only made no sense, but it was lazy from a character development standpoint.
:D What?
Anyway, I was actually impressed with how strong Piccolo was after rewatching some of the arc in Kai. I completely forgot he was stronger than Gero and got stronger than Goku was at Super Saiyan when he fought Frieza. That's a ridiculous jump in power.
But the long buildup to him finally refusing with Kami...and then getting his butt kicked by Imperfect Cell is understandably insulting. Once I think about Piccolo is the only non-Saiyan who had an argument for how he should have been stronger but THAT'S IT. And even then, fusing with the much weaker Kami and becoming much stronger is lunacy anyway.
All the humans had nothing to suggest that they could compete with the villains of the Cell/Android saga. Sure Krillin was coming along fine on Namek but this is comparing him to Gohan we are talking about. Gohan's hidden strength has been built up well throughout the series. I don't see how Krillin could train or anything and could be reasonably considered to be a match for even that clown Android.
So that's why have all the Super Saiyans made sense. They had (more) believable reasons for competing with the bad guys. The humans, not at all. And that does suck. This is one of the reasons why the show overstayed its welcome after the Cell saga. The Saiyans left every good guy in their dust.
The androids were programmed to know everything about the characters until they left for Namek, so they knew exactly how strong they would all be except the Super Saiyan characters. It was just a kind of lazy way to use the Super Saiyans, though.
Well, from what everyone had said, Krillan might have been around Frieza's strength by the end of the series. Seeing that Frieza was supposed to be the strongest being in the universe (known universe, yes) he should probably have not been such a pushover to Cell Jr. or Babidi's lackeys, even if he couldn't compete with Cell or Buu.
Last week I got all 5 seasons of Dragonball on DVD. I remember it being a charming show when it aired and always wanted to see it again. Despite my fond childhood memories of DBZ, I will not be getting it on DVD. You guys already gave about 4 pages on why. ;) That said, I still like Faulconer's soundtrack and Cell's character design.
And GT... fuck GT. I remember when that was first getting released and my friends and I were really excited for it. Biggest disappointment ever. I think what finally did it for me was when Goku off-handedly remarked that the mook he was fighting was stronger than Majin Buu. Like it's not a big deal. Sweet-merciful fuck, how would that guy breathe without destroying the planet he's on, let alone fight Goku at that strength?
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 08:03:37 PM
:wth: I liked it better when you liked the ending of the Cell saga with how Goku stayed dead and let his son be his successor.
I still stand by that opinion that it would have been a great ending to the arc to have Goku die for good and have Gohan be his successor. In this case I'm saying that when I think about it, I think that Goku's self-sacrifice should have ended up working, with him transporting himself along with Cell to a different location just as Cell was about to self-destruct. Gohan wouldn't need to be a Super Saiyan by that point in time, but it could have been made that he would receive more training from Piccolo and such to become Earth's next big defender to replace Goku, and if an evil great enough forced him to, then he could become a Super Saiyan when necessary (just like how Goku did against Frieza).
Then again, the whole transformation into a Super Saiyan was never really indicated to have to do with strength or training. Up until the Cell arc, it had to do with a Saiyan falling into a an enraged emotional state so deep that it forced the transformation on them. That said, the Buu arc pretty much destroyed that logic once Goten and Trunks could easily transform into Super Saiyans at the ages of 7 and 8, respectively.
And one of them after pouting after his mommy scolded him.
It's kind of why I preferred my idea of Super Saiyan literally being a once in a lifetime achievement that could never be used again to the way Toriyama just made the legend into a common power up that was even devalued further by having levels.
Quote from: Nel on August 29, 2012, 09:24:23 PM
Last week I got all 5 seasons of Dragonball on DVD. I remember it being a charming show when it aired and always wanted to see it again.
That's definitely a good buy. Extremely cheap and lazy animation aside (thanks to Toei's notoriously low budget for their productions back then), the show works great on so many levels. Its clear that everyone working on it had such a passion for Toriyama's manga and the result was a really fun and enjoyable adventure show with some really good fights thrown in the mix as well.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 09:30:47 PM
And one of them after pouting after his mommy scolded him.
It's kind of why I preferred my idea of Super Saiyan literally being a once in a lifetime achievement that could never be used again to the way Toriyama just made the legend into a common power up that was even devalued further by having levels.
I can somewhat agree with that. I wouldn't necessarily limit it to once in a life-time, but I do think that it should have been something that couldn't possibly be controlled no matter how much training was put into becoming stronger. I feel like it should have been an unpredictable response for select Saiyans that could only be triggered under deep emotional states (mostly rage, of course), and it also should have been far more taxing to be in that form, creating for more desperation in that no character could stay as a Super Saiyan for too long. To me, that would have been the perfect use of that form. In that regard, the Saiyan characters couldn't rely on that transformation which would force them to have to allow the human characters to play their part in grand fights as well, and then they wouldn't become so damn useless like they did in the Cell and Buu arcs.
At least Pan didn't become a Super Saiyan, unlike how Goten and Trunks becoming one. She didn't become one during the end of DBZ during the Martial Arts Tournament and sure as hell didn't become one during the entirety of GT.
However, as a kid I always justified Goten getting SS early was due to how I always thought that Goku had sex with Chi-Chi while he was still in Super Saiyan Mode. I always assumed that Goten was conceived somewhere during the 10 day waiting period Cell had for his Cell Games. Yeah I just assumed he was able to do it easily due to Goku having the genes in him at the time to go SS.
Eh, but still... Trunks and Goten should never have been able to achieve Super Saiyan level at their age.
It's at that point when what was supposed to be a legendary transformation was simply reduced to nothing more than a power-up. And that's... kinda sad.
Quote from: Daxdiv on August 29, 2012, 09:41:47 PM
At least Pan didn't become a Super Saiyan, unlike how Goten and Trunks becoming one. She didn't become one during the end of DBZ during the Martial Arts Tournament and sure as hell didn't become one during the entirety of GT.
Well, in the manga Pan was only introduced at the very end in the epilogue, and she was extremely young and clearly had very little training at that point (even far less than Goten and Trunks had), so of course she wouldn't be a Super Saiyan by that point in time. She didn't become one in GT, either, but GT is non-canon, anyways. I remember reading somewhere that Toriyama had said in an interview that he didn't even know what a female Super Saiyan would look like, hence why he could never picture Pan becoming Super Saiyan had the series continued past that point in time.
It would be sorta like in YYH if everyone started throwing around the Ensatsu-ken. It would kind of weaken the move.
MY ONLY DISAPPOINTMENT IS THAT RADITZ NEVER BECAME A SUPER SAIYAN :light:
BTW, With all of this DBZ talk, I just remembered that there's a theatrical anime movie that's supposed to be coming out which apparently covers a point in time from the 10-year gap between the Buu arc of DBZ and the epilogue ending.
Its not just another special and its apparently being advertised and billed as a big deal to DBZ fans in Japan. I'm honestly not expecting much from this, but I'm still just curious enough to keep updated onto what the plot of this movie will be.
Quote from: Kiddington on August 29, 2012, 09:49:23 PM
MY ONLY DISAPPOINTMENT IS THAT RADITZ NEVER BECAME A SUPER SAIYAN :light:
And we never saw Nappa turn into a Super Saiyan 3.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 09:48:18 PM
It would be sorta like in YYH if everyone started throwing around the Ensatsu-ken. It would kind of weaken the move.
I love that the Jao Ensatsu-ken was only ever used one time in the entire series. Its a bad-ass move. I find it hilarious that the only reason that Hiei never used it before or again was because he despised how it somewhat resembled Kuwabara's Spirit Sword, as though he were insulted to use an attack that resembled anything that Kuwabara used. :sly:
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 09:50:47 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on August 29, 2012, 09:49:23 PM
MY ONLY DISAPPOINTMENT IS THAT RADITZ NEVER BECAME A SUPER SAIYAN :light:
And we never saw Nappa turn into a Super Saiyan 3.
I'm sure one of the latest video games does it. Along with the 300 other what-is characters. :blush:
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 09:50:47 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on August 29, 2012, 09:49:23 PM
MY ONLY DISAPPOINTMENT IS THAT RADITZ NEVER BECAME A SUPER SAIYAN :light:
And we never saw Nappa turn into a Super Saiyan 3.
The mustache would be
glorious.
Quote from: Nel on August 29, 2012, 09:52:37 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 09:50:47 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on August 29, 2012, 09:49:23 PM
MY ONLY DISAPPOINTMENT IS THAT RADITZ NEVER BECAME A SUPER SAIYAN :light:
And we never saw Nappa turn into a Super Saiyan 3.
I'm sure one of the latest video games does it. Along with the 300 other what-is characters. :blush:
They don't. They only show SSJ3 Vegeta, Trunks, and Broly.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 09:50:47 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on August 29, 2012, 09:49:23 PM
MY ONLY DISAPPOINTMENT IS THAT RADITZ NEVER BECAME A SUPER SAIYAN :light:
And we never saw Nappa turn into a Super Saiyan 3.
Awwwww yeeeeeaaaaah
Come to think of it, I still can't believe this isn't an option in the games yet. I mean, IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE A REASON FOR ME TO BUY ONE AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DONE IT.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 09:51:52 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 29, 2012, 09:48:18 PM
It would be sorta like in YYH if everyone started throwing around the Ensatsu-ken. It would kind of weaken the move.
I love that the Jao Ensatsu-ken was only ever used one time in the entire series. Its a bad-ass move. I find it hilarious that the only reason that Hiei never used it before or again was because he despised how it somewhat resembled Kuwabara's Spirit Sword, as though he were insulted to use an attack that resembled anything that Kuwabara used. :sly:
"WAIT A MINUTE THAT'S JUST A CHEAP RIP OFF OF MY SPIRIT SWORD."
That gets me every time. ;D
Shows how much I know. lol I always just assumed the games kept upping their roster with a bunch of bullshit characters.
Quote from: Kiddington on August 29, 2012, 09:55:02 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 09:50:47 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on August 29, 2012, 09:49:23 PM
MY ONLY DISAPPOINTMENT IS THAT RADITZ NEVER BECAME A SUPER SAIYAN :light:
And we never saw Nappa turn into a Super Saiyan 3.
Awwwww yeeeeeaaaaah
Come to think of it, I still can't believe this isn't an option in the games yet. I mean, IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE A REASON FOR ME TO BUY ONE AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DONE IT.
Well, they kinda sorta acknowledged the idea in one of BT3's menu's.
Quote from: Rynnec on August 29, 2012, 09:57:04 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on August 29, 2012, 09:55:02 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on August 29, 2012, 09:50:47 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on August 29, 2012, 09:49:23 PM
MY ONLY DISAPPOINTMENT IS THAT RADITZ NEVER BECAME A SUPER SAIYAN :light:
And we never saw Nappa turn into a Super Saiyan 3.
Awwwww yeeeeeaaaaah
Come to think of it, I still can't believe this isn't an option in the games yet. I mean, IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE A REASON FOR ME TO BUY ONE AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DONE IT.
Well, they kinda sorta acknowledged the idea in one of BT3's menu's.
Yeah, but it's still not a playable option.
So, you know, who cares?
Quote from: Nel on August 29, 2012, 09:24:23 PM
Last week I got all 5 seasons of Dragonball on DVD. I remember it being a charming show when it aired and always wanted to see it again. Despite my fond childhood memories of DBZ, I will not be getting it on DVD. You guys already gave about 4 pages on why. ;) That said, I still like Faulconer's soundtrack and Cell's character design.
And GT... fuck GT. I remember when that was first getting released and my friends and I were really excited for it. Biggest disappointment ever. I think what finally did it for me was when Goku off-handedly remarked that the mook he was fighting was stronger than Majin Buu. Like it's not a big deal. Sweet-merciful fuck, how would that guy breathe without destroying the planet he's on, let alone fight Goku at that strength?
GT did suck but Baby saga>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buu saga.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 08:03:37 PM
:wth: I liked it better when you liked the ending of the Cell saga with how Goku stayed dead and let his son be his successor.
I still stand by that opinion that it would have been a great ending to the arc to have Goku die for good and have Gohan be his successor. In this case I'm saying that when I think about it, I think that Goku's self-sacrifice should have ended up working, with him transporting himself along with Cell to a different location just as Cell was about to self-destruct. Gohan wouldn't need to be a Super Saiyan by that point in time, but it could have been made that he would receive more training from Piccolo and such to become Earth's next big defender to replace Goku, and if an evil great enough forced him to, then he could become a Super Saiyan when necessary (just like how Goku did against Frieza).
Then again, the whole transformation into a Super Saiyan was never really indicated to have to do with strength or training. Up until the Cell arc, it had to do with a Saiyan falling into a an enraged emotional state so deep that it forced the transformation on them. That said, the Buu arc pretty much destroyed that logic once Goten and Trunks could easily transform into Super Saiyans at the ages of 7 and 8, respectively.
Buu saga...God, I HATE the Buu saga.
Anyway, Gohan at that point was not one who wanted to sit around and do nothing when there was a threat. Hell, at the start of the Namek saga, he should up to Chichi and said he wanted to go to a very distant planet to find the dragonballs to help his friends. So instead of Goku telling Gohan to sit in a corner, it was better for them to now have Goku want to have Gohan succeed him. That worked wonders when it came to training him in the hyperbolic chamber.
I think the thing that really bugged me about the Baby arc is that they were using their good animation studio for several of the episodes, except the one where they actually beat the guy. Even as a kid who knew nothing about the animation industry, I could easily tell when they were using "the good animation" or "the bad animation". I could probably ask Jacob about this and get a definite answer, but DBZ and DBGT always seemed to use about three different animation studios. You just think that they'd use the best one on the episode where the major villain is actually defeated.
I mean, I don't care now (it really isn't that big of a deal), but as a kid I bitched and bitched about that, no matter how much my friends didn't care. :D
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 09:49:35 PM
BTW, With all of this DBZ talk, I just remembered that there's a theatrical anime movie that's supposed to be coming out which apparently covers a point in time from the 10-year gap between the Buu arc of DBZ and the epilogue ending.
Its not just another special and its apparently being advertised and billed as a big deal to DBZ fans in Japan. I'm honestly not expecting much from this, but I'm still just curious enough to keep updated onto what the plot of this movie will be.
I'm calmly really excited about this. .3. Just give Future Trunks some good screentime and make it as good as Fusion Reborn and I'll be happy. I'm not going to lie, watching a DBZ movie in a theater would be something I'd really love.
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 10:16:32 PM
Buu saga...God, I HATE the Buu saga.
The Buu saga is terrible in the anime. Once again, its just a flat-out bad adaptation and here they made the mistake of playing out the arc so damn seriously. In the manga it has a very comedic tone akin to the early days of Dragon Ball and it brings the series back to its routes of "magic" and "mysticism" rather than the science-fiction approach that DBZ took with outer-space and alien races and whatnot. In the anime, its incredibly drawn out with shit-tons of filler and they don't translate any of Toriyama's humor.
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 10:22:44 PM
I'm calmly really excited about this. .3. Just give Future Trunks some good screentime and make it as good as Fusion Reborn and I'll be happy. I'm not going to lie, watching a DBZ movie in a theater would be something I'd really love.
But in this case you'd have to go to Japan if you actually wanted to see it in theaters. Over here, the best you can possibly hope for is a well-done DTV release by FUNimation (which to be fair is what will most likely happen given their track-record with well-done DVD releases in the past few years).
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 10:29:31 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 10:16:32 PM
Buu saga...God, I HATE the Buu saga.
The Buu saga is terrible in the anime. Once again, its just a flat-out bad adaptation and here they made the mistake of playing out the arc so damn seriously. In the manga it has a very comedic tone akin to the early days of Dragon Ball and it brings the series back to its routes of "magic" and "mysticism" rather than the science-fiction approach that DBZ took with outer-space and alien races and whatnot. In the anime, its incredibly drawn out with shit-tons of filler and they don't translate any of Toriyama's humor.
I'm actually a bit interested in the manga version since you've been speaking so highly of it.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 29, 2012, 10:32:25 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 29, 2012, 10:22:44 PM
I'm calmly really excited about this. .3. Just give Future Trunks some good screentime and make it as good as Fusion Reborn and I'll be happy. I'm not going to lie, watching a DBZ movie in a theater would be something I'd really love.
But in this case you'd have to go to Japan if you actually wanted to see it in theaters. Over here, the best you can possibly hope for is a well-done DTV release by FUNimation (which to be fair is what will most likely happen given their track-record with well-done DVD releases in the past few years).
Dream killer. :'(
Yeah, the DBZ anime was shit overall. I watched it, I liked it, and I still have nostalgia for it, but anyone looking at it objectively has to admit it's garbage.
Frieza is a pretty great villain though. Unlike Cell and Majin Buu, Frieza wasn't a creation made to destroy the universe. He was his own person, with his own personality, and chose to be the person (or alien, whatever) that he became. Majin Buu did have the interesting concept of learning good from bad and struggling with it. Cell was pretty boring, overall.
I still think the scene where Goku becomes a Super Sayain for the first time is great. One of the best scenes in the series.
Also, fuck the haters, Krillin is awesome.
I watched an episode of Darkwing Duck last week, and good lord, is that show fucking corny. Like, we put that shit on the list? Really? Maybe we did let nostalgia pollute the decision.
I've never actually watched Darkwing Duck (or if I did it was so little and so long ago that I just flat-out don't remember any of it), so naturally I have no comment on the matter.
Maybe it was just that episode, and the show as a whole isn't so corny? I don't know, it's been a long ass time since I saw any DD.
It was the episode where Darkwing Duck went into the Negaverse.
I still think it's great. It's possible you just didn't like the episode you saw, but I don't enjoy things beyond the 80s TMNT for nostalgia reasons.
Watch Night Of The Living Spud and if you don't like it then the show simply isn't for you.
It's supposed to be corny. The show is a spoof of silver age comics, but isn't as in your face about it as The Tick.
Eh, if I wanted a silver age sendup done right, I'll watch Brave and the Bold. This show just felt corny in a bad way than whatever you guys think it is.
I mean, yeah, the Disney Afternoon shows do have some corny dialogue in them. Or a lot in some cases, like in particular episodes of some shows or most of Rescue Rangers. But there's more than enough clever lines and character interactions that do work to balance them out, IMO.
Rescue Rangers is probably the hardest to enjoy nowadays because the dialogue is incredibly corny, but I still think Darkwing Duck and DuckTales still hold up with great and fun stories with really excellent character interaction.
I liked what I saw of Darkwing Duck. The show is supposed to have corny dialogue since the hero is about as oblivious as Hong Kong Phooey.
Darkwing Duck was pretty enjoyable, even though the title character was basically Disney's version of Daffy Duck, obliviousness, giant ego and all.
I imagine that DuckTales would still hold up for me, even I haven't seen it in a few years. I could never get into Rescue Rangers or TaleSpin even when they were new, for whatever reason.
But that's the thing. I thought Hong Kong Phooey sucked too. Maybe I just hate corny things in general. Or how I can't watch corny parodies without associating them with those shitty parody movies last decade.
Well no one can compare to the best duck ever. Also, Duck Dodgers '00 show>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Darkwing Duck.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 18, 2012, 07:47:40 AM
But that's the thing. I thought Hong Kong Phooey sucked too. Maybe I just hate corny things in general. Or how I can't watch corny parodies without associating them with those shitty parody movies last decade.
Well I don't care for HKP (not just meh) so I guess I get it.
HKP's one of the highlights of 70's Hanna-Barbera IMO. Even if it isn't a great show, it's at least considerably better than ar least 95% of what lese they made at the time.
Being 5% of the best shit is still pretty shitty though.
Fair enough.
No problem with different tastes, I don't like Firefly but I also don't think people who like it just blindly enjoy it because Whedon made it.
I find Peanuts to be highly overrated. The strips and specials have their amusing moments, but by and large I find it to be very dull, depressing and even a little mean-spirited now. Nonstop losing, unrequited love and failure gets seriously old after a while.
I like Marvel's Super Hero Squad Show. There, I said it. I don't care how goofy and silly it is, I don't care if hardcore comic book fans consider it to be a blight on Marvel's various franchises, I enjoy the series precisely because it's so goofy and silly. And I love the concept of all of Marvel's characters residing in in single city as a setting. Yes, it's just set up to sell toys, but I still love Superhero City. I love it.
I don't mind or even care that CGI has become the dominant animation style in animated features now. I'm sick of people bemoaning the fact that CGI exists and acting like computer animation is the first sign of Armageddon. I'm also sick of people bad-mouthing Flash animation. CG and Flash are just like everything else: there are good and bad examples of each. I wish folks would learn to judge cartoons by the quality of the art, writing and direction, not solely by how they're animated.
I think I'm starting to seriously dislike 'adult' cartoons now. When did 'adult' come to mean as scatological, trippy, lewd, crude and unfunny as possible? Also, I'm done with all of Seth MacFarlane's shows, and don't know if I'll ever want to revisit them again.
I've tried and tried, but I just can't get into Adventure Time, and I probably never will. People on Toon Zone especially never stop heaping praise on AT, saying how wonderfully quirky, compelling and deep it is, but at best I find myself scratching my head over it, at the worst it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't like how it's so often lacking in form and structure: it tries to be simultaneously a comedy, a stoner show, an action show and a drama, and doesn't succeed at any of them. I kind of like Jake, he has some good lines now and then, although his spotlight episodes tend to be kind of weak. Finn I just can't get into at all, though I've tried. I didn't really like the Fionna and Cake gender-swap episode (though the majority of TZ loved it), but I will say that I probably liked Finn's female counterpart Fionna more in her one appearance than I ever have or will like Finn himself.
Lupin the 3rd is flat-out one of the best anime ever made, and it's seriously deserving of more praise than it's ever received in the US.
Rocko's Modern Life is simply the single best thing Nickelodeon has ever put on the air. Ever. On a semi-related note, there have only been about 3 really good or above average Nicktoons: Rocko, Angry Beavers and KaBlam!, IMHO.
While I don't hate Hanna-Barbera, I've never felt like the works of that studio belong in the same category as the likes of Warner Bros and MGM, or even Jay Ward. It's not the limited animation, their shows, characters and humor have never really gelled with me for whatever reason. Even H-B's most major productions like The Flintstones, Yogi Bear and Huckleberry Hound were just 'meh' at best to me. That said, Scooby-Doo: Mystery, Inc. and the connected universe within it is the coolest and most interesting take on anything HB-related anyone's done in a considerable while. Their take on Blue Falcon and Dynomutt only made me want to see them get their own show again.
I find some of the unabashed love, praise and adulation for Cartoon Network's Toonami block to be annoying and a little shallow and sad. I enjoyed the block too back in the day when it was good, but the way some people hype this show to the sky and act like it was the single greatest achievement in human history is just ridiculous. As if these shows were somehow made 100 times better just because they were surrounded by bumpers of a robot talking with the voice of Steven Jay Blum. I honestly like the Miguzi bumpers more.
Quote from: Silverstar on September 24, 2012, 10:03:50 AM
I find Peanuts to be highly overrated. The strips and specials have their amusing moments, but by and large I find it to be very dull, depressing and even a little mean-spirited now. Nonstop losing, unrequited love and failure gets seriously old after a while.
You know, I agree with you, and I think I always have.
QuoteWhen did 'adult' come to mean as scatological, trippy, lewd, crude and unfunny as possible? Also, I'm done with all of Seth MacFarlane's shows, and don't know if I'll ever want to revisit them again.
When comedy writers forgot how to actually write comedy. I mostly feel the same way. Have you watched any Archer, though? That show is hilarious!
QuoteLupin the 3rd is flat-out one of the best anime ever made, and it's seriously deserving of more praise than it's ever received in the US.
Damn right! Have you seen the new series? It's amazing.
QuoteAs if these shows were somehow made 100 times better just because they were surrounded by bumpers of a robot talking with the voice of Steven Jay Blum.
Steve Blum makes anything better! :frown:
Yeah, you should really give Fujiko Mine (http://www.hulu.com/#!lupin-the-third-the-woman-called-fujiko-mine) a try, Silver. Very stylistic, like something out of a pulp novel.
Quote from: Foggle on September 24, 2012, 10:38:50 AM
Quote from: Silverstar on September 24, 2012, 10:03:50 AM
QuoteLupin the 3rd is flat-out one of the best anime ever made, and it's seriously deserving of more praise than it's ever received in the US.
Damn right! Have you seen the new series? It's amazing.
QuoteAs if these shows were somehow made 100 times better just because they were surrounded by bumpers of a robot talking with the voice of Steven Jay Blum.
Steve Blum makes anything better! :frown:
THIS.
I kind of don't get the love for the new Toonami block, or at least the obligation that a lot of people seem to have to watch it and make sure it sticks around. Their selection of programming just isn't that appealing, relying on shows ASA has had for years and new shows that just don't seem appealing.
I get that TOM is great, but he's just a host, and they haven't even done anything as exciting as Intruder yet. And it seems like most of the people who wanted the block back forgot just how bad it was in its last year of life- Naruto fillers on double duty and repeats of Samurai Jack and Ben 10: Alien Force. It was nice to see Jack again, even if it was all on DVD, but the block's death was a mercy kill. This new lineup isn't too much of an improvement, either.
And truthfully, I'm not really sure if I want the older shows to return to the block anymore. A lot of these series, like Gundam Wing and DBZ, just don't hold up, and as much as I like stuff like Yu Yu Hakusho and Outlaw Star, I'd rather see Toonami/[as] buy something new and interesting instead, and not crap like Deadman Wonderland.
I'm still bitter that Steins;Gate or Gundam Unicorn can't be brought on.
Toonami was probably killed becaudse their final lineup was bad. That doesn't make it a mercy kill, just means CN was stupid for not putting on shows they already know we love. And I'm all for them bringing back good shows. It's not like CN has been doing mych better than that lately.
I'll appreciate Toonami when it's a block I actually want to watch instead of something I'm expected to watch.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 24, 2012, 11:48:19 AM
I'll appreciate Toonami when it's a block I actually want to watch instead of something I'm expected to watch.
:worship:
I polished off Deadman Wonderland when all was said and done... but it didn't turn out that great, which is disappointing considering how well it started, and that was by FAR the best thing they had on there (other than Bebop reruns, but even those are gone now).
I was really excited when Toonami came back, but I honestly just think it was the nostalgia rush from that one night on AFD. Now whenever I tune in, I only feel onset narcolepsy. There's really nothing inherently special about it that sets it apart from its predecessor (ASA), other than TOM, and while he is a great host, he's not exactly turning Bleach into good entertainment. I mean, you could probably argue that the lineup is even worse than it used to be (Durarara was watchable, and Fooly Cooly would show up every now and again), and budget or no budget, that's just sad.
Toonami, to me, is starting to feel like one of those "let sleeping dogs lie" moments. It's great that TOM made a real comeback, and we can all expunge the nasty memories of TOM 4, but it's just... I dunno. If they ever get any shows worth my time, I'll gladly go back, but this current lineup just nothing for me.
...and yeah, the whole general "YOU HAVE THE POWER TO FIX THIS" attitude that I
have to watch shit in order to make it better is really irritating. I shouldn't
have to suffer through bland/downright awful programming just so the network gets a minor ratings bump and has the money to afford something better. That's just... no.
We need FMP, Baccano, and Black Lagoon on Toonami. Make it happen CN.
Quote from: Kiddington on September 24, 2012, 01:55:43 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 24, 2012, 11:48:19 AM
I'll appreciate Toonami when it's a block I actually want to watch instead of something I'm expected to watch.
:worship:
I polished off Deadman Wonderland when all was said and done... but it didn't turn out that great, which is disappointing consider how well it started, and that was by FAR the best thing they had on there (other than maybe Bebop reruns, but even those are gone now).
I was really excited when Toonami came back, but I honestly just think it was the nostalgia rush from that one night on AFD. Now whenever I tune in, I only feel onset narcolepsy. There's really nothing inherently special about it that sets it apart from its predecessor (ASA), other than TOM, and while he is a great host, he's not exactly turning Bleach into good entertainment. I mean, you could probably argue that the lineup is even worse than it used to be (Durarara was watchable, and Fooly Cooly would show up every now and again), and budget or no budget, that's just sad.
Toonami, to me, is starting to feel like one of those "let sleeping dogs lie" moments. It's great that TOM made a real comeback, and we can all expunge the nasty memories of TOM 4, but it's just... I dunno. If they ever get any shows worth my time, I'll gladly go back, but this current lineup just nothing for me.
...and yeah, the whole general "YOU HAVE THE POWER TO FIX THIS" attitude that I have to watch shit in order to make it better is really irritating. I shouldn't have to suffer through bland/downright awful programming just so the network gets a minor ratings bump and has the money to afford something better. That's just... no.
Hopefully come November they'll get a show that's actually good. I enjoyed Deadman when it was on, but it's really nothing special once you get down to it, doesn't help that I only really liked a total of 3 characters in that show. Samurai 7 has really been dissapointingly "meh" for me. I'm rather irritated by the fact that out of all the Bandai shows they brought back, it was Eureka 7, I get it was cheap and all, but if that was the case, why not bring back the more faster-paced S-Cry-Ed instead? And Bleach is...Bleach.
Quote from: Foggle on September 24, 2012, 01:58:29 PM
We need FMP, Baccano, and Black Lagoon on Toonami. Make it happen CN.
Funny that you mention that, because there were rumours at Dragoncon that FMP and Black Lagoon were going to air on Toonami. I hope they turn out to be true, since I've been meaning to watch Black Lagoon for a while.
I want to see Heat Guy J on there.
Yeah, I'm glad Toonami is back, but even it isn't making Bleach, Deadman Wonderland, Samurai 7, Eureka 7 or Ghost In The Shell interesting. I'm really hoping they can find something better to show. I can only rewatch FMA:B and CB so many times.
Quote from: Nel on September 24, 2012, 02:39:40 PM
Yeah, I'm glad Toonami is back, but even it isn't making Bleach, Deadman Wonderland, Samurai 7, Eureka 7 or Ghost In The Shell interesting. I'm really hoping they can find something better to show. I can only rewatch FMA:B and CB so many times.
>>Not liking Stand Alone Complex.
It's sooo, soooo boring. :shit:
I only watch it for the openings.
What about Casshern? You guys all seem to be forgetting it.
Meh. that one hasn't really done anything for me either.
That's the only show I've really been enjoying as of late (already seen FMA:B during its first run), and even then it's not doing all that much.
Toonami should've stayed a preteens block, not a thinly reskinned ASA that panders to people who cannot let go of the past.
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on September 24, 2012, 04:05:58 PM
Toonami should've stayed a preteens block, not a thinly reskinned ASA that panders to people who cannot let go of the past.
Meh, better than what they were doing.
I really do like Peanuts, it feels to me like a lot of persevering through the hard times to get to the moments of joy which are far stronger than the rough ones. But that's just me.
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on September 24, 2012, 04:05:58 PM
Toonami should've stayed a preteens block, not a thinly reskinned ASA that panders to people who cannot let go of the past.
Bingo. Once I saw the first line up I knew it was not going to be something I liked.
I doubt Toonami would be that much better off had it been brought back as a pre-teen block. Especially with CN's current management, at least being brought back on AS means Williams Street has more control over it.
Yeah, pretty much. Still, is FUNi really that stingy if it can't offer actually good shows for Toonami?
I think it's more or less a combination that most of their shows go over Toonami's budget, and that they keep picking the wrong shows for the block. Out of all the cheap Funimation shows they could've aired, they picked Casshern Sins and Samurai Seven over say, Devil May Cry and Darker Than Black?
I hear DMC is not that much better. Funimation should be grateful to have any show on CN. What's the hold up?
Yeah, except FUNi does have a better catalogue (besides that one), so it's kind of odd they would pick shows from the "meh" pile to feature.
Okay, here it goes.
* I don't understand all the love Toonami gets. I can understand loving and being loyal to an individual show or shows, but not an entire block. When I was growing up, it was the Disney Afternoon and while there were some shows I watched, the block as a whole didn't have my loyalty. Liked Darkwing, hated GoofTroop and Bonkers, for example.
* I think "Gargoyles" is better than "Batman: The Animated Series" but everyone knows I think that. I still like Batman a lot, but others have already articulated this opinion, so moving on.
* I will never understand the popularity of Seth MacFarlane.
* I don't think Marvel had any good cartoons in the 90's. Not when Gargoyles, Batman, and even Superman were constantly outshining them in the medium.
* As much as I love BTAS, I don't love the DCAU as a whole. I don't hate or even outright dislike any of its shows, but I don't put them on a pedestal either. For example, JLU was the first to try a long running plot arc, but I've seen long running arcs attempted better on other shows, so I wasn't impressed with the Cadmus arc... although I thought the ideas were brilliant.
* While I consistently give YJ high-marks when I review it, it hasn't hooked me on a personal level the way Gargoyles, Spectacular Spider-Man, and Batman the Animated Series has. This one will likely never be a favorite with me. That being said, I am liking season two more than season one.
* I am sick of the eighties nostalgia wave. Can't we move on to the nineties yet? Do we need umpteen Transformers, GI Joes, and Thundercats shows on the air?
* While I'm at it, I wouldn't be sad if we had less comic book adaptations on the air. Let's see some more originality. God knows I'd rather see Greg Weisman produce "Gargoyles 2198" next instead of another comic book adaptation. And let's see what Bruce Timm, Alan Burnett, and Paul Dini can develop from scratch... they're all brilliant guys.
Quote from: GregX on September 25, 2012, 02:10:29 PM
* I don't understand all the love Toonami gets. I can understand loving and being loyal to an individual show or shows, but not an entire block. When I was growing up, it was the Disney Afternoon and while there were some shows I watched, the block as a whole didn't have my loyalty. Liked Darkwing, hated GoofTroop and Bonkers, for example.
Well, while we were just talking about how most of us don't care for the Toonami revival, I think the appeal of the block came down to the wraparound segments. TOM and Sara added a lot more to the block than just introducing the shows and make way for commercials, and found a way to strike a chord with viewers. Not just viewers even, but the staff. I believe that Steve Blum is voicing TOM for free now, just out of love for the character.
And while not every show on the block was a classic, I think everyone who watched it in the day had a favorite lineup or two of their own. Although yeah, I'm sure we can all name some shows from the block that watching would be like doing chores.
Quote from: GregX on September 25, 2012, 02:10:29 PM* I am sick of the eighties nostalgia wave. Can't we move on to the nineties yet? Do we need umpteen Transformers, GI Joes, and Thundercats shows on the air?
But nostalgia for the 90's is here. In fact, I think 90's nostalgia has taken away 80's nostalgia in the public eye for a little while now. The 90's Are All That's initial success confirmed that.
Quote from: GregX on September 25, 2012, 02:10:29 PM* While I'm at it, I wouldn't be sad if we had less comic book adaptations on the air. Let's see some more originality. God knows I'd rather see Greg Weisman produce "Gargoyles 2198" next instead of another comic book adaptation. And let's see what Bruce Timm, Alan Burnett, and Paul Dini can develop from scratch... they're all brilliant guys.
Well you know that Freakazoid! was actually an idea from Timm and Dini that was supposed to be made as a more straight forward action-comedy with Speilberg producing it... until Tom Reugger got his hands on it, and we have the show we know it as today.
But would you want it to have been made any other way? :D
I do agree though, I would like to see these guys work on their own shows instead of just working on comic book adaptations.
Quote from: Avaitor on September 25, 2012, 02:35:50 PM
Quote from: GregX on September 25, 2012, 02:10:29 PM* I am sick of the eighties nostalgia wave. Can't we move on to the nineties yet? Do we need umpteen Transformers, GI Joes, and Thundercats shows on the air?
But nostalgia for the 90's is here. In fact, I think 90's nostalgia has taken away 80's nostalgia in the public eye for a little while now. The 90's Are All That's initial success confirmed that.
Is it? I haven't noticed.
I really don't think '90s nostalgia is anywhere near as prevalent as '80s nostalgia was in the past decade. A few TV blocks are not really the same as the swath of movies, TV shows, comics, and media attention the '80s stuff gets.
The Disney comics are a good start, though.
I'll say 90s nostalgia is around when I see posters of Kenneth Branagh's Power Rangers in the theater.
While I agree with Spark that the 90s nostalgia wave hasn't gotten as prevalent as the 80s wave, we're only on 2012. I have a feeling very soon we will start seeing 90-esque styles and shows everywhere. I just hope it doesn't end up overstaying it's welcome.
I'm giving the 90's Nostalgia wave 3 more years to fully kick into effect. Maybe 2015 is when we'll see more 90's shows/things getting revivals in the form of box office movies and rebooted TV Shows, maybe in either animated or live action. Though I guess we are on the right track since I do think Power Rangers has a full DVD boxset coming out and you could say that it is a product of the 90's. I'll just be happy with any original shows that came out in the 90's getting respectable DVD releases.
Right now I find it to be a bit of a trickle, with 90's Are All That, Toonami, Cartoon Planet, etc. Those blocks are OK for a trip down memory lane, but it's not in full force like the 80's felt in the late naughts.
Well, the 80's nostalgia has been dying down since it's been over 30 years since the decade started, and most of the people who remember the decade enough to have fond memories of it must have a family and/or some part of a career occur by now to have more to think about besides their favorite childhood cartoons and hits. Aside from the people who'll never get a life.
We're young, but 90's nostalgia has been kicking in.
This applies to not just animation, but I absolutely despise the cries of "don't like it, don't watch it" or "it's not supposed to win awards" when criticizing a work. You're acting as if a series is allowed to be bad, and that any and all forms of negative reception should be rendered invalid because the critics are simply not the audience the show is trying to pander to. When that is just utter bile. If a show that's supposed to be funny is not funny, then I have a right to call it out for not making me laugh. If a show happens to have a particularly bad story, it should not be defended because it's just low-brow media. It should be derided because it has the potential to do better, and utterly ignores it.
One of the lamest excuses that I've heard pertaining to cartoons/shows which are geared to a younger audience whenever someone criticizes them is "It's for kids", as if that alone gives a show permission to be substandard in quality and content. Shows such as Batman: The Animated Series and Justice League were both technically kids' shows, but they very well written and executed. It's the 21st century, folks. A TV show being tailored for kids doesn't give it permission to be bad.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 27, 2012, 03:25:58 AM
This applies to not just animation, but I absolutely despise the cries of "don't like it, don't watch it" or "it's not supposed to win awards" when criticizing a work. You're acting as if a series is allowed to be bad, and that any and all forms of negative reception should be rendered invalid because the critics are simply not the audience the show is trying to pander to. When that is just utter bile. If a show that's supposed to be funny is not funny, then I have a right to call it out for not making me laugh. If a show happens to have a particularly bad story, it should not be defended because it's just low-brow media. It should be derided because it has the potential to do better, and utterly ignores it.
I agree about the part in which if a work is truly bad on every level, then it should not be defended (its OK to have it as a guilty pleasure as long as you can admit that it is bad). However the "if you don't like it, then don't watch it" notion is OK if its for a work that's not necessarily bad but just doesn't appeal to everyone. For example, if someone really didn't like The Spectacular Spider-Man and gave their reasons why and they were fair reasons, then I could acknowledge that, but that doesn't mean its bad, it just means that it doesn't come off as good to that particular person. I myself could easily list off all of the show's strengths and in that regard whether its good or bad would be a completely subjective point as to whether it appeals to you as a viewer at all.
Also, I don't mind criticism for any show at all, but I absolutely loathe critics who firmly believe that they are objectively right about whether a show is bad or not just because they say so, and condemn anyone who doesn't hate or deride a show that they think is garbage JUST because they think it sucks. Those are the most shallow-minded and pretentious people out there. To all those people, all I can say is that they're not as smart as they think they are, and to me they just come off as spoiled, self-entitled ass-holes. They can believe whatever the fuck they want if it makes them feel better.
Well, Spectacular Spider-Man was intended for mass appeal. It's not like some art-piece that only 10% of the world could truly understand. Unless the person's reason for saying it was bad was "it was boring and all the characters weren't funny," their criticism could be taken as valid. As long as it's constructive, of course.
Or if their reason was "the 90's show was better, because nostalgia". Or they just pretend to hate the show without even seeing it just to troll a board.
I was just using TSSM as an example. I could use other shows as an example as well, like Batman Beyond. From what I can gather, there are a fair number of people who don't like the show for their own valid reasons. That said, even if it does have problems, it has strengths that can allow people to argue back that its still a good show and that its strengths outweigh its weaknesses (I'm one of those people). The same goes for other shows like South Park or The Boondocks.
If you're talking about something like the DBZ anime, then yes, in cases like those I can't justify at all why people would defend that show when its just so shamelessly bad (I'm saying this without bias, too, as I have nostalgic memories growing up with this show as well). But more often than not I find that there are a lot of shows where you can't just criticize it in some completely objective way.
Regarding Dr, Insomniac's post about "If you don't like it don't watch it" not being a valid response, I say it depends on what one's particular reasoning for disliking it. If you've given a show a fair shake for weeks/months on end and it still isn't to your liking, then it's best for you to simply cut your loses, stop watching it and move on. In those instances, "Don't watch it of you don't like it" is pretty much the only thing that you can say. For example, I've watched several episodes of Phineas & Ferb and the show never improved in my eyes. I get that the show is popular, but P&F just never pulled me in for whatever reason, so I just stopped watching the show altogether.
If your watching a remake and your reason for not liking the remake is simply that it's not the original, then you likely just have a bias towards the remake coming into it.
I agree that if you've been watching a show continuously with no signs of improvement to your liking, then it's natural to stop seeing it. But it certainly does not mean that a series can be resistant to criticism. I'm talking about the fans of horrible shows who refuse to acknowledge absolutely any form of negative talk without comparing those people to trolls or haters. And sadly, that seems to be widespread in general fandom.
Even in places that I'm sure you're familiar of, seemingly level-headed people will go completely bonkers and transform into bloody blowhards when people even give the slightest of criticism towards their favorite work, even it it's grounded, polite, and not intended at all to offend the fans. It pretty much makes me go, "Hast thou doth gone zany, you fuckin' shitehawke of a loon?!" I mean, learn to take criticism well, especially when it's not even your own work.
The pat statement which irks me is "I hate this show so much, I wish they'd cancel it!" Why? You're entitled to not like a show and you're also entitled to criticize what you don't like about it, but why should a should a show be pulled off the air just because 1 person doesn't enjoy it? "I hate this show so it should be canceled" just reeks of coming from egotistical jack-holes who think that their opinions are the only valid ones and that it's not possible for anyone to possess an opinion or tastes contrary to their own.
I also don't like people who hate on something, be it a TV show, movie, game, franchise, character or whatever, even if it's something that they've never seen or previously had no strong opinion on before, just because someone or something famous like The Simpsons, South Park or Family Guy or the Nostalgia Critic or the Angry Video Game Nerd ripped it apart on their show. On the flip side of that, I also don't like when people say things "I hate so-and-so now, and have now sworn a blood oath against him/her/them, because he/she/they dared to make fun of this particular thing that I like!"
You don't have to take what a TV show or a internet reviewer says as gospel. First, these are just works of fiction; people like James Rolfe or Doug Walker are playing characters. Rolfe has even admitted that he actually likes some of the games that his character the Nerd has tore into in his reviews. Second, the opinions of someone on a TV show or an internet review show are just that: opinions, and they're not somehow more valid than anyone else's opinions just because these people are on TV or have a web show. If you like something that someone on TV or on a web series stated that they didn't like, you don't have to stop liking it or declare that person your sworn enemy nor should you base your entire viewpoint on something solely on what Eric Cartman or Peter Griffin or Doug Walker or James Rolfe or whoever said about it, especially if you've never even seen the thing before. Watch it yourself and formulate your own opinions. You're not a robot, nor are you a sheep.
I just never understood why people bitch about a show and watch it week after week after week. I don't like "Family Guy" at all, so I don't watch it. I didn't like the new "ThunderCats" so I stopped watching it after a few episodes.
But some people will just keep on watching and watching and watching. And then bitch and moan every week. I don't get it.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 27, 2012, 01:02:30 PM
I agree that if you've been watching a show continuously with no signs of improvement to your liking, then it's natural to stop seeing it. But it certainly does not mean that a series can be resistant to criticism. I'm talking about the fans of horrible shows who refuse to acknowledge absolutely any form of negative talk without comparing those people to trolls or haters. And sadly, that seems to be widespread in general fandom.
Even in places that I'm sure you're familiar of, seemingly level-headed people will go completely bonkers and transform into bloody blowhards when people even give the slightest of criticism towards their favorite work, even it it's grounded, polite, and not intended at all to offend the fans. It pretty much makes me go, "Hast thou doth gone zany, you fuckin' shitehawke of a loon?!" I mean, learn to take criticism well, especially when it's not even your own work.
I'm all too familiar with the latter scenario. I can't tell you how many times someone has flipped the fuck out at me because I dared to state that I wasn't into a show or a character which they held dear, even when it wasn't a rip, just a statement of opinion. To name just 1 example, on the old
Justice League forums on TV.com, I was constantly subjected to "What? Your favorite character isn't Batman?! You're not a Batman/Wonder Woman shipper??!? Then you are my NEMESIS! I WILL HATE YOU FOREVER WITH THE THE FURY OF 1000 SUNS!!!!1111!!!!!" Similarly, I once had a
Static Shock fan accuse me of being a racist because I stated matter-of-factly that the character of She-Bang would get pwned in a hypothetical battle with Supergirl. Of course, I'm a racist hate monger for thinking that; it has nothing to do with the fact that Supergirl is an alien with the same basic physiology as a flippin' KRYPTONIAN and therefore has all the same powers as SUPERMAN, whereas She-Bang is just some bio-engineered chick made in a lab with just above average human strength and agility. Because I'm sure that She-Bang couldn't beat Supergirl, then obviously I'm prejudiced against African-Americans, even though I'm black.
Which is the other thing I've encountered when dealing with people like this: the utter hypocrisy. Often times, these same people have no problem hurling insults at other peoples' favorite shows and characters.
Haha, a Star Bro swearing. I never thought I'd see that.
I love this forum.
Quote from: GregX on September 27, 2012, 01:25:26 PM
I just never understood why people bitch about a show and watch it week after week after week. I don't like "Family Guy" at all, so I don't watch it. I didn't like the new "ThunderCats" so I stopped watching it after a few episodes.
But some people will just keep on watching and watching and watching. And then bitch and moan every week. I don't get it.
I suppose that for some people, TV viewing can be a masochistic affair. Plus, some people find enjoyment in writing about shows they despise. Why else do shows like Star Trek Voyager still hold memory?
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on September 27, 2012, 03:40:50 PM
Quote from: GregX on September 27, 2012, 01:25:26 PM
I just never understood why people bitch about a show and watch it week after week after week. I don't like "Family Guy" at all, so I don't watch it. I didn't like the new "ThunderCats" so I stopped watching it after a few episodes.
But some people will just keep on watching and watching and watching. And then bitch and moan every week. I don't get it.
I suppose that for some people, TV viewing can be a masochistic affair. Plus, some people find enjoyment in writing about shows they despise. Why else do shows like Star Trek Voyager still hold memory?
I get that. I mean, everyone knows how much I hate Michael Bay's movies, and yet I will go to see "Transformers 4" and for three reasons.
1. I won't pay for the ticket, someone else will.
2. I'm a critic now... for World's Finest and Marvel Animation Age, but I'm looking to expand.
3. Related to #1, my friends love watching me emotionally break down and go on a rage over these. If I'm providing entertainment, I'm cool with it.
Quote from: Goldstar on September 27, 2012, 12:54:39 PM
Regarding Dr, Insomniac's post about "If you don't like it don't watch it" not being a valid response, I say it depends on what one's particular reasoning for disliking it. If you've given a show a fair shake for weeks/months on end and it still isn't to your liking, then it's best for you to simply cut your loses, stop watching it and move on. In those instances, "Don't watch it of you don't like it" is pretty much the only thing that you can say. For example, I've watched several episodes of Phineas & Ferb and the show never improved in my eyes. I get that the show is popular, but P&F just never pulled me in for whatever reason, so I just stopped watching the show altogether.
If your watching a remake and your reason for not liking the remake is simply that it's not the original, then you likely just have a bias towards the remake coming into it.
The new The Thing remake can kindly burn in Hell.
See, worst lists do exist. (http://www.newsarama.com/tv/10-best-comic-book-animated-series-ever-111018.html)
Seriously, to me, it seems like that aside from Avengers: EMH being added in as a token recent show, this list goes entirely for name recognition and nostalgia beyond actual quality. I don't think any comic fan would consider the original TMNT superior to the 2K3 version, Super Friends superior to Justice League, or the 60's Spider-Man as the definitive take of the character.
It lacks actual ambition and omes off as tacky, IMO.
Tetrisdork linked this. And that is why I no longer follow him.
Watch me make a better top 10 comic book adaptations list than this.
10- Batman Beyond
9- The Tick
8- Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
7- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2K3)
6- Superman: The Animated Series
5- DuckTales
4- Justice League (including Unlimited)
3- Batman: The Brave & the Bold
2- Batman: The Animated Series
1- The Spectacular Spider-Man
Not counting manga or comic strips. Comments?
I don't think anyone can legitimately claim we didn't put any effort into our list. I mean most lists have the original TMNT and Transformers on it. Did we? No. Why would we? They are not all that great.
Edit: EXAMPLE-
QuoteWhile one could make the case subsequent animated adaptations were better (2008's Spectacular Spider-Man was a particular critical favorite), 1967-70's Spider-Man remains too culturally iconic not to be counted about the best comic book animated series ever.
That is a terrible reason to list something. "It's not all that good, but more people saw it so it should place here."
Quote from: gunswordfist on September 27, 2012, 06:56:13 PM
Quote from: Goldstar on September 27, 2012, 12:54:39 PM
Regarding Dr, Insomniac's post about "If you don't like it don't watch it" not being a valid response, I say it depends on what one's particular reasoning for disliking it. If you've given a show a fair shake for weeks/months on end and it still isn't to your liking, then it's best for you to simply cut your loses, stop watching it and move on. In those instances, "Don't watch it of you don't like it" is pretty much the only thing that you can say. For example, I've watched several episodes of Phineas & Ferb and the show never improved in my eyes. I get that the show is popular, but P&F just never pulled me in for whatever reason, so I just stopped watching the show altogether.
If your watching a remake and your reason for not liking the remake is simply that it's not the original, then you likely just have a bias towards the remake coming into it.
The new The Thing remake can kindly burn in Hell.
I'd just like to add that this movie is not good.
You know, I'm slowly coming over to the belief that new media naturally improves on old media. And by technicality, the average student animation project has better production, better awareness of its surroundings, and better utilization of art tropes than a Tex Avery or Looney Tunes short. Yet, people will pride the latter because they came first. You have those proclaiming that the art of animation peaked before they were born, instead of being logically sound and understanding that as technology and society progress, so does the ability to create art.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on October 03, 2012, 11:40:52 PM
You know, I'm slowly coming over to the belief that new media naturally improves on old media. And by technicality, the average student animation project has better production, better awareness of its surroundings, and better utilization of art tropes than a Tex Avery or Looney Tunes short. Yet, people will pride the latter because they came first. You have those proclaiming that the art of animation peaked before they were born, instead of being logically sound and understanding that as technology and society progress, so does the ability to create art.
When it comes to mediums of entertainment, improvement is mostly a subjective term. To me, new media usually tends to change and adapt to the standards of of whatever cultural environment that it is being created in, as culture and the people who embody that culture themselves are constantly changing along with the times. That is to say, people's interests change, from changes in technology to changes in current events. Humor changes, since humor is usually based on common nuances or ironies tied in with commonly understood concepts to a specific culture at any given time. The same pretty much goes for other forms of entertainment besides just comedy. That is to say that what people found funny or exciting or scary a few decades ago may not seem that way to someone living in the current day and age or someone coming from a different cultural background who is unfamiliar with our culture's common knowledge. In another scenario, if you took a film or cartoon or a book from our day and age, traveled back in time a hundred years ago and showed it to any number of people of that time, what we find good about such works most likely wouldn't translate to them based on the different culture and set of entertainment standards of that time.
I find that more often than not, changes in any form of entertainment media are merely adapting or evolving with the times based on a constant need for change. Basically, if you keep showing someone the same kind of action or comedy or horror, eventually enough people will get tired of it and find it stale that it comes time for a change. A few talented artists or creators will find a change that sticks with most people and keep adapting their work accordingly and possibly start a trend that becomes a new standard among a certain medium of entertainment, but once that grows stale the cycle repeats and we once again see change.
Now, this isn't to say that I disagree that things can improve over time. There are some things that just flat-out suck no matter when they were made, such as a plethora of cheaply made 80's cartoons or cheesy films that just cashed in on whatever was culturally popular at the time. If you think about it, that really hasn't changed as we still have that same sort of set-up. Still, sometimes we do see a general level of improvement. In this case I feel as though animation as an art form is being taken more seriously by mass amounts of adults than it was just a couple of decades ago (at least in America). However that doesn't necessarily mean that animation in general is significantly better than any past era of animation (and once again, this same notion goes for all other mediums of entertainment). I find that in this case, animation has struck a cord with more adults than it used to for any number of reasons. That doesn't mean that there was any shortage of terrific and stand-out works in the past that could still hold up for some or many today, and it doesn't necessarily mean that all animation is better today. As always, no matter what time it is, the value of any form of art depends both on the personal opinion and tastes of the individual perceiving it, and the level of talent and creative ability for structure and design of the artist or artists behind that particular work.
At any rate, that's just my long and stupid rambling about how I view the changes in animation (and once again, any form of art or entertainment) as merely adapting with the times rather than objectively improving. Its not even really meant to be a counterpoint to Dr. Insomniac's post, its just something I decided to write after reading his post simply because I'm bored as hell but am not tired enough to go to sleep yet.
Some things are better now, some things are not.
There isn't quite a successful formula for pop culture since it's always changing, but while some things are lost- other things are gained and it always changes. Some people might prefer specific times and eras because what they make speaks to them on multiple levels that current (or other eras of pop culture) doesn't. It doesn't make them stunted or lesser, or unable to move on, it's just something that speaks to them on a level others might not understand.
That said, I'm not a big fan of current pop music, but it definitely isn't for lack of trying. It really doesn't speak to me on any level, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop searching for something that does.
You see, that's why I'm a terrible writer. Desensitized basically just conveyed in a short paragraph what took me 3 overly long paragraphs to write-out (and did a better job of it, at that). Anyways, this is just in reference to a little tidbit of conversation I had with Dr. Insomniac and Foggle over Skype about why I can't stand my own writing. I'm still half-asleep and bored. I apologize. :D
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on October 04, 2012, 12:39:22 AM
You see, that's why I'm a terrible writer. Desensitized basically just conveyed in a short paragraph what took me 3 overly long paragraphs to write-out (and did a better job of it, at that). Anyways, this is just in reference to a little tidbit of conversation I had with Dr. Insomniac and Foggle over Skype about why I can't stand my own writing. I'm still half-asleep and bored. I apologize. :D
I enjoyed reading it! I just felt like adding a bit on to it!
As for "Unpopular opinions"; I can't stand most of what HB has produced outside of a small handful of shows (you can probably guess what they are) I can't stand most of the animation and the dialogue typically grates on my nerves.
Yeah, I find very little enjoyment in HB. One of the reasons Harvey Birdman gained my affection was how it directly lambasted those shows.
You can always tell when someone's basing thier opinion on animation solely on nostalgia whenever one says that HB's output is better than today's output.
The Flinstones is a classic, but most of HB's other shows are just plain bland and boring to me.
I'm the kindest to HB, but I only really like their earliest stuff, up to maybe the mid-60's if you wanna be generous.
Although I'm not sure which select few Spark is talking about. :P
I'll be honest, putting importance and influence aside, I never liked The Flintstones. To me it was always just as boring as most of HB's other cartoons. I think the only stuff I really enjoyed out of HB was when they were in their more experimental stage in the early to mid 90's and came out with stuff like 2 Stupid Dogs and the re-iteration of Super Secret Squirrel.
Speaking of their 90's stuff, am I the only one who doesn't think that SWAT Kats holds up? I used to like it a lot back when it was on CN, but when I watch it now, the dialogue is too 90's for my tastes and the action and animation really isn't that impressive.
It's third-tier action stuff, in an era where Batman and Gargoyles were king.
Swat Kats was okay, but it was never one of my favorites. 2 Stupid Dogs, though? That was great.
If Swat Kats aired 5-10 years earlier, it would've stood out more. As it is now? Like Avaitor said, Batman and Gargoyles did what SWAT Kats set out to do, and both of those shows did it better than SK did. Sonic Satam suffers a similar problem (along with dozens of others).
The theme song is still awesome though.
I'm also not a fan of The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest, but I'm hoping you saw my review for the first set and already knew that. I do remember liking the Pirates of Dark Water, but it's been so long since I last watched that I'm not sure if I'd still like it.
Also, I'm saddened that no one commented on my comic book cartoons list. :P
Quote from: AvaitorI'm also not a fan of The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest, but I'm hoping you saw my review for the first set and already knew that. I do remember liking the Pirates of Dark Water, but it's been so long since I last watched that I'm not sure if I'd still like it.
Just read that review. ;) Even as a kid I never cared for RAoJQ, I guess I'd find more appeal in it now that I'm older, but I'm still not sure. Hell, if given the choice between which show to watch again, I'd pick Code Lyoko over JQ. :P
QuoteAlso, I'm saddened that no one commented on my comic book cartoons list.
What can I say? Spectacular Spider-Man is excellent (got a chance to see it again on Neo-Toonami, still as good as ever). BTAS is a given (and well deserved). B&TB is a good show that I really need to see more of, JL/U is awesome and ambitious. Never seen Ducktales. I remember STAS all that much, but what I remember was still good. TMNT was a saturday morning action cartoon done right. Still need to see more of EMH. Same deal with The Tick (Disney XD removed it form their lineup long ago). And there's nothing I can say about BB other than it's good.
Speaking of DXD, here's my unpopular opinion of the day: I miss Jetix.
Quote from: Avaitor on October 04, 2012, 01:11:12 AM
I'm the kindest to HB, but I only really like their earliest stuff, up to maybe the mid-60's if you wanna be generous.
I like, or at least tolerate, most of their shows up until about the mid 60s as well. One they found success with Scooby Doo and decided to copy it over and over and over again that's where I draw the line.
And then there's Hong Kong Phooey. I don't think I've ever been able to explain why I love the show so much, but I do.
Pirates Of The Dark Water was dry (meaning it was BORING) while Swat Kats is still great. SK doesn't have to have the same quality as Batman or Gargoyles quality to be good.
7. Wolverine & The X-Men
6. Superman
5. Batman The Brave & The Bold
4. Batman Beyond
3. Legion Of Superheroes
2. Justice League
1. Batman TAS
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on October 04, 2012, 01:11:45 AM
I'll be honest, putting importance and influence aside, I never liked The Flintstones. To me it was always just as boring as most of HB's other cartoons. I think the only stuff I really enjoyed out of HB was when they were in their more experimental stage in the early to mid 90's and came out with stuff like 2 Stupid Dogs and the re-iteration of Super Secret Squirrel.
This. While I can and do appreciate Hanna-Barbera's contribution to animation as a whole and their spot on the cultural lexicon, I have to say that I was never all that into most of their work. A lot of their various shows and characters are interchangeable, and their humor and stories are "meh" at best, and for me that includes
The Flintstones. Once one gets and accepts that a) It's
The Honeymooners in animated form and b) it's illustrated radio, there's really not much more to say about it. The main HB shows I liked were their latter-day, going into Cartoon Network stuff like
Dexter's Lab, Johnny Bravo, PPG, etc.
Quote from: AviatorSpeaking of their 90's stuff, am I the only one who doesn't think that SWAT Kats holds up? I used to like it a lot back when it was on CN, but when I watch it now, the dialogue is too 90's for my tastes and the action and animation really isn't that impressive.
Yeah,
Swat Kats always just screamed "90's Action Show" to me. No offense to its' fans, 'cause I know it has fans, but SK just never did it for me. It was this weird meshing of
Top Gun, Batman: TAS and a furry fantasy. Seeing it again on Boomerang just reinforced how this show hasn't aged well, at least not to me.
Quote from: Rynnec on October 04, 2012, 02:08:28 AM
Speaking of DXD, here's my unpopular opinion of the day: I miss Jetix.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mbaq82bvVN1reugqko1_500.jpg&hash=0caae1aa6269d7ff8a42ca402db8441c6d6021d8)
Heh.
While I know Jetix gets a lot of flak for taking up over half of TD's hours, one can't really deny that their shows were much better than most of what we have on DXD (barring Avengers:EMH and I guess Trong Legacy and Motorcity). I'd much rather watch Digimon, and Oban:Star Racers over...anything else on DXD.
You'd rather watch Digimon Frontier? :wth:
I still don't get why Disney had to make their own "boys" channel. Couldn't they just cut back on the girly wish-fulfillment shows on regular DC and make more gender-neutral series?
Quote from: Avaitor on October 04, 2012, 09:17:53 PM
I still don't get why Disney had to make their own "boys" channel. Couldn't they just cut back on the girly wish-fulfillment shows on regular DC and make more gender-neutral series?
But how else could we pump out tons of Selena Gomez clones in so little time?
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on October 04, 2012, 08:56:18 PM
You'd rather watch Digimon Frontier? :wth:
Between that and Ultimate Spiderman? Hell yeah! Frontier may be crap, but at least it's watchable crap.
Quote from: Avaitor on October 04, 2012, 09:17:53 PM
I still don't get why Disney had to make their own "boys" channel. Couldn't they just cut back on the girly wish-fulfillment shows on regular DC and make more gender-neutral series?
I was going to say "They want to sell more albums?", but then that argument falls flat since there's nothing preventing a hypothetical gender-neutral show from having musical talent.
The thing is, none of Disney's new wave of stars really have made an impact of any kind yet. At least not on the level of Miley, Demi, Selena and the Jo Bros. And it's starting to seem like kids are getting tired of these shows.
Not to mention that P&F and Gravity Falls, which are actually gender neutral, are getting more attention than any of them as well.
Quote from: Avaitor on October 04, 2012, 09:29:51 PM
The thing is, none of Disney's new wave of stars really have made an impact of any kind yet. At least not on the level of Miley, Demi, Selena and the Jo Bros. And it's starting to seem like kids are getting tired of these shows.
Not to mention that P&F and Gravity Falls, which are actually gender neutral, are getting more attention than any of them as well.
HOW DARE YOU.
CHINA MCCLAIN IS DISNEY'S NEXT BIG STAR AND DON'T YOU FUCKING FORGET IT. HAVE YOU EVEN HEARD "CALLING ALL THE MONSTERS"? IT PEAKED AT 86 ON THE BILLBOARD TOP 100! EIGHTY. SIX.
YOU'LL SEE. YOU'LL *ALL* SEE.
Speaking of Disney, out of the "Big Three", I'm starting to wonder if I really consider Disney dead last back in the 90s. I think when it just comes to cartoons, Nick was overrated back then. I only think Hey Arnold!, Doug and Rocko are the only good toons they had. I never got into Ahhhhh Real Monsters, on Angry Beavers they were practically were speaking a foreign language and I lost interest in Rugrats when I was like 8. I of course almost never had Disney channel and the only show I remember seeing a good amount of episodes of is GoofTroop but thinking about this makes me wonder...
Quote from: gunswordfist on October 05, 2012, 06:17:39 AMI think when it just comes to cartoons, Nick was overrated back then. I only think Hey Arnold!, Doug and Rocko are the only good toons they had. I never got into Ahhhhh Real Monsters, on Angry Beavers they were practically were speaking a foreign language and I lost interest in Rugrats when I was like 8.
The only head-and-shoulders above average Nicktoons from that era IMHO were
The Angry Beavers, KaBlam! (until Sniz & Fondue left, those shorts were awesome), and
Rocko's Modern Life, which I still contend is the single greatest thing Nick has ever put on the air.
Doug was too squeaky-clean for my tastes,
Hey, Arnold! alternatively bored and annoyed me and I could never get into the Klasky-Csupo shows. But yeah, the Nicktoons as a whole were overrated; I thought that even back then.
As for Disney, I liked some of the Disney Afternoon shows more than others (I couldn't get into
Chip 'n' Dale's Rescue Rangers or
Timon & Pumbaa,
Duck Daze/Quack Pack was ambitious, but a confused mess, and given its' tumultuous history, it's no wonder, and
Tale Spin looked really good, but the stories were just 'eh'), but looking back on the Disney shows now, seeing as how currently Disney seems to believe that the classic shorts and features characters are only good for entertaining toddlers (all the shows starring Disney's iconic characters automatically go to Disney Junior), the Disney Afternoon seems like a Golden Age in comparison. Sure, it's great that Disney is still doing stuff with Mickey and the gang and some of the movie characters, but I think they could be doing more than entertaining wee tots.
Whoa, they put their best characters on Disney Jr? :wth: I didn't even know there was a Disney Junior. Again, I have barely had the channel. Even during these days. :D
I feel the same way about Doug and Arnold themselves but their supporting casts are so fun and colorful, which is what made me go back to those shows again and again.
SWAT Kats has aged well. In terms of its dialogue and animation of the first season, it holds up just fine. The second season's animation can sometimes look a little stilted, but the writing is even better than the first. To me, there's a difference between a series holding up well and some fans just outgrowing in favor of other works over it.
Disney Channel didn't have any original animated series until the early aughts, so until then, their cartoon department relied on Disney Afternoon repeats and Ink and Paint Club classics, if you were lucky to catch some of those. There's some good stuff in there, and I did like the channel when it was on, but I still sided with CN and Nick. Cartoon Network had the best of all worlds, while Nick's originals were a hell of a lot more creative than what they spit out today, even if their shows aren't perfect.
Quote from: Peanutbutter on October 05, 2012, 10:11:01 AM
SWAT Kats has aged well. In terms of its dialogue and animation of the first season, it holds up just fine. The second season's animation can sometimes look a little stilted, but the writing is even better than the first. To me, there's a difference between a series holding up well and some fans just outgrowing in favor of other works over it.
I suppose that's true. I guess I've just never really been in
Swat Kats' power (of the 2
TBS Sunday Mornings in Front of the Television shows, I liked
2 Stupid Dogs a little more. (But I'm generally more into comedy that action overall.)
And I guess I have to backtrack on a previous statement a bit: some classic Disney shorts do still air on Disney Channel; they air as fillers between shows under the umbrella title
Have A Laugh!. It just strikes me as curious how there haven't been any mainstream new general audience TV shows starring any Disney shorts or features characters since
House of Mouse. The current and upcoming shows starring those characters (
Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, Sophia the First and
7D, which won't debut until 2014) are all slated for Disney Junior (though
Sophia the First is supposed to get a sneak preview on Disney Channel proper). You'd think with the advent of all the various cable channels Disney owns, they'd be willing to try something along the lines of
the Disney Afternoon nowadays on one of them.
"Rabbit of Seville">"What's Opera, Doc?"
I've never really liked What's Opera Doc, honestly.
I don't understand the love for Gravity Falls. I mean I saw a few episodes and it was good, but it seems about as average as CN's Monday night comedies. I get the ironic factor for My Little Pony, and the pre-installed fanbase for the Legend of Korra, but Gravity Falls just strikes me as another case of a decent cartoon stuck on the Disney channel and hyped by fans because its the only thing the channel has going for it.
Gravity Falls has Wendy and incest pairings. There's your explanation.
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on October 05, 2012, 10:22:39 PM
I don't understand the love for Gravity Falls. I mean I saw a few episodes and it was good, but it seems about as average as CN's Monday night comedies. I get the ironic factor for My Little Pony, and the pre-installed fanbase for the Legend of Korra, but Gravity Falls just strikes me as another case of a decent cartoon stuck on the Disney channel and hyped by fans because its the only thing the channel has going for it.
I think it has potential that shines through in some episodes, but some of them (mostly all pairing based) really don't impress me all that much. I do like the paranormal bent, and the humor that comes from it, but the parts that take place outside of the paranormal stuff that don't deal with the kids or Gideon kind of annoys me.
Quote from: Avaitor on October 05, 2012, 08:57:54 PM
"Rabbit of Seville">"What's Opera, Doc?"
I'm not sure that's really an unpopular opinion, it seemed to be the general consensus back at GAC at least.
I like What's Opera, Doc?, but it's at the point in Jones' career where he was starting to go downhill. I don't really like the style in which Bugs and Elmer are drawn, and unfortunately that's the way Jones took the characters from that point on. Cartoons like "Rabbit of Seville" and the Hunting Trilogy are perfect though, classic Jones design, story, and wit all the way through.
And futhermore, while Gene Deitch's Tom and Jerrys are known as mediocre cartoons, I like them quite a bit more than I like Jones' T&Js. I don't think many of Deitch's cartoons are that much worse than the later run of the MGM cartoons, and they have a certain charm to them. Jones' T&Js are just ugly and boring, and the music is aggravating.
I get what you mean. Jone's artwork became increasingly more cutesy and kitschy when he went along.
For another UO, I can't stand "The Dot and the Line". I think it's as dull as dishwater.
As for Gravity Falls, I think what sells it for me is that it doesn't contain Adventure Time and Regular Show's obnoxious bro-humor or MLP's horrifically irritating pre-school morals of the day (there are still lessons, but no one writes to Princess Celestia), and is more of a concise laugh-fest. It does share some elements from these shows, like an interesting mythology, but for some reason Falls speaks to me more than any of these.
Quote from: Avaitor on October 06, 2012, 12:09:43 PM
As for Gravity Falls, I think what sells it for me is that it doesn't contain Adventure Time and Regular Show's obnoxious bro-humor or MLP's horrifically irritating pre-school morals of the day (there are still lessons, but no one writes to Princess Celestia), and is more of a concise laugh-fest. It does share some elements from these shows, like an interesting mythology, but for some reason Falls speaks to me more than any of these.
Everything said here, basically, on top of the fact that it has nice character development (there's a lot more to Stan than just "greedy old uncle", for example; the second episode with the lake monster especially proves this), a touching brother and sister relationship that's a refreshing change of pace from most brother/sister tropes where they both hate each others guts... and hey, it's just damn funny. You find me another kids cartoon on TV right now with writing
this solid, and I will eat my hat.
I unabashedly love the show in its current state (only two things I don't like about it are Pacifica and Robbie, both minor annoyances at best), and until the episode quality begins to suffer, will continue to do so. It's a great show, and for me, easily one of the best things on television right now.
Mmkay
-I don't like The Emperor's New Groove. Not even Patrick Warburton and Ertha Kitt could save the movie for me. On it's own it's an average movie at best, but then make David Spade the main character and you've got a piece of crap, in my opinion at least. Can't say I like the guy.
-I don't get the appeal of The Thief and the Cobbler. Even if it was finished the way it was originally intended it still would have been a dull, though admittedly visually stunning, movie. It's basically a long Pink Panther cartoon.
-I think Pelswick isn't as bad as many make it out to be. I used to hate it but now that I know more about it's creator I have more respect for the show.
-I don't really mind Bronies as much as some do. Just a bunch of geeks having fun.
-I like The Looney Tunes Show.
-I hate The Clone Wars, that is the CGI series currently airing, not Tartakovsky's miniseries.
I'll explain the last two more later.
Hey, I dislike David Spade as much as the next guy(he was alright when teamed up with Chris Farley; fuck ya'll, Tommy Boy is a fucking classic), but he was hilarious in this.
I don't think it's too unpopular to dislike the current Clone Wars series. I know that I gave up on it after the first season, and it doesn't sound like it really got any better ever since I did.
Do we really need five seasons explaining what happened in between Episodes II and III? We know Anakin's padawan is going to die while he and Obi-Won make it to the next movie, so why can't we just move on?
Yeah, Thief and the Cobbler just has such a basic plot. Williams took decades to animate it, but couldn't bother to make a good story in all that time?
Guess Williams was doing it for the art. Guess he should have hired a writer during that time or something.
Wait, does Thief and the Cobbler have a fanbase?
Quote from: talonmalon333 on October 10, 2012, 06:13:05 PM
Wait, does Thief and the Cobbler have a fanbase?
A small one that only grew when the Recobbled Cut was made.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on October 10, 2012, 06:14:09 PM
Quote from: talonmalon333 on October 10, 2012, 06:13:05 PM
Wait, does Thief and the Cobbler have a fanbase?
A small one that only grew when the Recobbled Cut was made.
Ah, that makes sense. Supposedly that was close to the original vision of the film.
At any rate, it's not really fair to bash the movie for not being written well. I mean, the creator of it was kicked out.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on October 10, 2012, 06:20:01 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on October 10, 2012, 06:14:09 PM
Quote from: talonmalon333 on October 10, 2012, 06:13:05 PM
Wait, does Thief and the Cobbler have a fanbase?
A small one that only grew when the Recobbled Cut was made.
Ah, that makes sense. Supposedly that was close to the original vision of the film.
At any rate, it's not really fair to bash the movie for not being written well. I mean, the creator of it was kicked out.
He took several decades to make it on his own before producers thought he was running too slow.
Quote from: Avaitor on October 10, 2012, 05:57:00 PM
I don't think it's too unpopular to dislike the current Clone Wars series. I know that I gave up on it after the first season, and it doesn't sound like it really got any better ever since I did.
Do we really need five seasons explaining what happened in between Episodes II and III? We know Anakin's padawan is going to die while he and Obi-Won make it to the next movie, so why can't we just move on?
:wth: I never even thought about that.
I believe I gave the show a try when Sym-Bionic Titan debuted and there was a new Rex and I believe Batman TBATB episode coming on in the same night and I just gave up any chance of me ever watching it again after seeing how dry it was.
Like SSJ Jake, I don't mind the bronies. Even the most obnoxious ones are no worse than other annoying animation fans.
Of course, I like FiM, so I could be biased. ;D
Quote from: SSJ Jake on October 10, 2012, 05:50:47 PM
-I don't like The Emperor's New Groove. Not even Patrick Warburton and Ertha Kitt could save the movie for me. On it's own it's an average movie at best, but then make David Spade the main character and you've got a piece of crap, in my opinion at least. Can't say I like the guy.
Well, I don't have any problems with David Spade, myself, but I do agree that this movie is pretty overrated. I never saw why so many people seemed to like it, myself.
Quote-I hate The Clone Wars, that is the CGI series currently airing, not Tartakovsky's miniseries.
Personally I dislike both of them, but admittedly I haven't actually watched that much of the CG one.
Quote from: Avaitor on October 10, 2012, 05:57:00 PM
I don't think it's too unpopular to dislike the current Clone Wars series. I know that I gave up on it after the first season, and it doesn't sound like it really got any better ever since I did.
Do we really need five seasons explaining what happened in between Episodes II and III? We know Anakin's padawan is going to die while he and Obi-Won make it to the next movie, so why can't we just move on?
I could never get into
Clone Wars. Not only because it pretty much sends continuity circling down the drain (there's no way all of these events could've gone down between Episodes 2 and 3) but it's impossible for me to accept Anakin Skywalker as the handsome dashing hero of the piece, knowing full well that at some point he's going to go insane, betray his master, kill an entire room full of children, lose an arm, lose his wife in childbirth, get his face melted off, get attached to a respirator and become the new Lord of the Sith. Bearing all this in mind makes that McDonald's commercial where Anakin hands a kid a Happy Meal very creepy indeed.
Quote from: SSJ Jake-I like The Looney Tunes Show.
Same here. I know it's become fashionable to piss on it (that's all pretty much everybody on Toon Zone and The Big Cartoon Database does) but even though I think there's room for improvement (it really just needs a little more slapstick and constant background music IMO), I can't bring myself to hate the show; in fact I can't really hate anything Looney Tunes related, except for the Hippety Hopper and Daffy & Speedy shorts. I couldn't stand those.
Quote from: SSJ Jake-I think Pelswick isn't as bad as many make it out to be. I used to hate it but now that I know more about it's creator I have more respect for the show.
Pelswick was always just average for me. I didn't love it nor hate it. The only thing about
Pelswick that I actively didn't like was how Pelswick's mom was alive in the comic strip but was killed off for the TV show for some reason. I'm really getting tired of mothers being dead in TV shows and movies. However, when I learned more about the series' creator John Callahan, I gained a new respect for the show. I was sad when I learned that he died.
Quote-I don't really mind Bronies as much as some do. Just a bunch of geeks having fun.
Agreed. I don't get the Brony thing myself, but it's harmless. The hardcore fans of Raven on
Teen Titans: TAS were far more annoying than the Bronies.
Quote from: Silverstar on October 11, 2012, 07:41:54 AM
Bearing all this in mind makes that McDonald's commercial where Anakin hands a kid a Happy Meal very creepy indeed.
:lol:
From what I heard, not only does Clone Wars not fit into the films, it can't even fit into that clusterfuck of an Expanded Universe. And that quashes my hopes to see Thrawn on-screen.
Quote from: Goldstar on October 11, 2012, 07:47:25 AM
Pelswick was always just average for me. I didn't love it nor hate it. The only thing about Pelswick that I actively didn't like was how Pelswick's mom was alive in the comic strip but was killed off for the TV show for some reason. I'm really getting tired of mothers being dead in TV shows and movies. However, when I learned more about the series' creator John Callahan, I gained a new respect for the show. I was sad when I learned that he died.
Pelswick was OK for me. For a kids show that aired on Nickelodeon, it dealt with heavy subject matters in a humorous setting. Alot of jokes about political correctness, for example.
Wait, "Pelswick" was a comic strip? I know John Callahan did strips, but I always thought he created Pelswick for animation like Matt Groening did for the Simpsons.
I remember liking Pelswick when I was younger, but I haven't seen it in years. I thought it was a better alternative to the Klasky-Csupo overload going on at Nick at the time, but I have no idea what I'd think about it now.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on October 11, 2012, 11:13:51 AM
From what I heard, not only does Clone Wars not fit into the films, it can't even fit into that clusterfuck of an Expanded Universe. And that quashes my hopes to see Thrawn on-screen.
I'm just waiting for Delta Squad to show up again.
I gave up on Clone Wars about 6 episodes in. I mean, we all know how it ends up, so what's the point? There's no tension when Anakin and Obi-Wan are in danger. Also, on a personal not I just don't like the art direction. I remember seeing a commercial a while back that they were bringing Darth Maul's brother into the thing, and I thought "We're already resorting to this kind of pandering for ratings?" and then lo and behold, another commercial came on later that showed that Darth Maul himself was coming back. Really? Just... really? :unimpressed:
Quote from: Nel on October 11, 2012, 04:09:42 PM
I gave up on Clone Wars about 6 episodes in. I mean, we all know how it ends up, so what's the point? There's no tension when Anakin and Obi-Wan are in danger. Also, on a personal not I just don't like the art direction. I remember seeing a commercial a while back that they were bringing Darth Maul's brother into the thing, and I thought "We're already resorting to this kind of pandering for ratings?" and then lo and behold, another commercial came on later that showed that Darth Maul himself was coming back. Really? Just... really? :unimpressed:
Haha, was Maul in a Vader suit? Funny enough, this made me realize that the great Obi has cut two Darths in half. Holy shit Batman..
The more I think about it, the more I realize that I don't like Bob's Burgers much at all. I mentioned before that an annoyance of mine in animation is when men attempt to voice the roles of women, but besides that, Bob and Louise are very dull characters, and the kids don't do much for me either.
Every now and then, there's a great joke or two, but it's not worth them.
Not trying to spark anything but,
I think MLP:FIM is a mediocre preaching-good-morales children's show and I can not honestly understand bronies.
Besides the ones who are just in it for the porn, I will admit that I've fapped to stranger things.
The show has excellent animation and voice acting, but other than that I just can not see what all the hype is about.
Also, it took one of my friends, through a girl who then broke his heart, so I will admit that I have grudge.
BROS BEFORE SHOWS
...
:wth:
Quote from: Jay L. Corbell on November 29, 2012, 07:42:31 PM
I can not honestly understand bronies.
Besides the ones who are just in it for the porn, I will admit that I've fapped to stranger things.
:whuh:
Quote from: Foggle on November 29, 2012, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: Jay L. Corbell on November 29, 2012, 07:42:31 PM
I can not honestly understand bronies.
Besides the ones who are just in it for the porn, I will admit that I've fapped to stranger things.
:whuh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg2u_De8j5o
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on November 29, 2012, 08:08:41 PM
Quote from: Foggle on November 29, 2012, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: Jay L. Corbell on November 29, 2012, 07:42:31 PM
I can not honestly understand bronies.
Besides the ones who are just in it for the porn, I will admit that I've fapped to stranger things.
:whuh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg2u_De8j5o
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi407.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp160%2FDaxdiv%2FGIF%2520Party%2Fbloodyhell.gif&hash=40b574e523393f37695447670f766ba194c25df5)
I'm starting to get sick of Cartoon Planet.
It's bad enough that we don't get Space Ghost on this new version, but every week it's the same 5 shows: Dexter's Lab, Billy & Mandy, Cow & Chicken, Evil Con Carne and My Gym Partner's a Monkey. Occasionally, CN will toss in a Chowder or Flapjack or Foster's or Powerpuff Girls short, but it's always 1 of the same 3 shorts every time. Plus, they only made about 4 or 5 Brak & Zorak bits which they repeat constantly.
The novelty of Cartoon Planet is starting to wear off for me; but then, I've never been a nostalgic person, so the major selling point behind CP had a limited shelf-life from the get-go.
Plus, I have a grudge against CN for taking that title; I wanted to launch an animation-themed website called Cartoon Planet, before CN got a lock on the name. :anger:
After all, CP is uncomfortable to watch and just makes you wonder what kind of bastard you are for even grabbing a peek of the footage.
I didn't know that Cartoon Planet was still going, I thought it was done.
Quote from: Comeau on November 30, 2012, 09:38:24 AM
I didn't know that Cartoon Planet was still going, I thought it was done.
They brought it back in October.
I haven't seen it since the first week they brought it back, either. I'd be more interested if they made new segments with Brak and Zorak, didn't have to air Lazlo and Gym Partner, and aired more than just season 1 episodes of Ed, Edd n' Eddy.
Cartoon Network is going to keep Cartoon Planet on so they can run holiday themed shorts for the rest of December, and then it'll probably go away again in January.
I wish that Cartoon Network had just kept the original title for this incarnation of CP: Best of CN. Calling this new show Cartoon Planet only makes me remember how much better the original CP was compared to this version, and how I would like for Turner to run the original CP on Boomerang.
I don't know why Boomerang or [as] can't just add Cartoon Planet repeats alongside Space Ghost. Just double up on SG to fill a half-hour and add CP in after a full SG run before you pick them up again.
I don't think too many Space Ghost fans hate Cartoon Planet that much that they would hate that.
Quote from: Avaitor on November 30, 2012, 11:33:54 AM
I don't know why Boomerang or [as] can't just add Cartoon Planet repeats alongside Space Ghost. Just double up on SG to fill a half-hour and add CP in after a full SG run before you pick them up again.
I don't think too many Space Ghost fans hate Cartoon Planet that much that they would hate that.
I'd watch that. Especially if it were the original CP wraparounds and it didn't show the same 5 or 6 cartoons over and over. It would give me a reason to watch Boomerang again.
Quote from: Foggle on November 29, 2012, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: Jay L. Corbell on November 29, 2012, 07:42:31 PM
I can not honestly understand bronies.
Besides the ones who are just in it for the porn, I will admit that I've fapped to stranger things.
:whuh:
:light:
You know, I've never really been able to comprehend why hardcore Gargoyles fans go out of their way to say that it's the best thing to ever come out of Disney.
I mean, it's a great show, and I wouldn't say it's overrated at all (Kim Possible is their most overrated series, btw), but the studio had about 70 years of quality stuff being made prior to Gargoyles' release, and has had about another 20 years of good stuff come out ever since. Can you really pinpoint their single greatest work to one TV series and call it a day?
I would agree. It's kind of insulting to narrow down a studio with almost three quarters of a century history to one particular thing that ran in less than five years of it to be the only great thing they've done. That said, it is great, but there are quite a few works that can easily equal or surpass it... even in the TV realm.
He-Man and the Masters of the Universe is a better animated sitcom than the best seasons of The Simpsons.
Quote from: Avaitor on November 25, 2012, 12:49:12 PM
The more I think about it, the more I realize that I don't like Bob's Burgers much at all. I mentioned before that an annoyance of mine in animation is when men attempt to voice the roles of women, but besides that, Bob and Louise are very dull characters, and the kids don't do much for me either.
Every now and then, there's a great joke or two, but it's not worth them.
While catching up on some of the more recent episodes, I think I know what my problem with the show is- I want to like Bob and Linda (I got her and Louise confused? wtf), but the creators want us to like the kids instead. My problem with this is that the kids just aren't likable in any conceivable way.
You don't have to hate a show just because it's popular and you are not a fan of it. I can't get into the new Scooby Doo or Adventure Time but I can see why those shows are popular (I'm assuming Mystery Inc. is popular...and still on air?! I don't have CN anymore.)
Yeah, try telling that to the cheesy one. Also, Tina and Louise are likable. What are you talking about?
Louise is a flat psychopath and Tina's too wishy-washy for my tastes.
I don't like when hardcore fans of a show say to non-fans of said show, "Anyone who doesn't like this show clearly just doesn't get it". That to me is the ultimate form of condescension. What that translates to in my mind is "My tiny mouse-like brain can't comprehend the notion that someone else doesn't revere this show like I do, and therefore anyone who doesn't worship this show must obviously be a moron".
Just because you're not into something doesn't automatically mean that you're ignorant of it. I've had too many people jump in my face with that whenever I have the unmitigated gall to say that I'm not into a show that they live and breathe. "Oh, you just don't get it!" No, you don't get it, ass-wipe. I understand it fine, I just don't like it.
Quote from: Silverstar on December 21, 2012, 07:51:55 AM
I don't like when hardcore fans of a show say to non-fans of said show, "Anyone who doesn't like this show clearly just doesn't get it". That to me is the ultimate form of condescension. What that translates to in my mind is "My tiny mouse-like brain can't comprehend the notion that someone else doesn't revere this show like I do, and therefore anyone who doesn't worship this show must obviously be a moron".
That's always terrible justification when people play that card. It's the artist's job to convey their art to the masses, if the masses don't understand it, then it's the artist's fault. If people don't "get it", it's because it wasn't explained well enough.
If you need five people to explain a piece of art to you, then it's poorly made. The explanation has to be obvious on some level.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 21, 2012, 03:00:45 PM
Quote from: Silverstar on December 21, 2012, 07:51:55 AM
I don't like when hardcore fans of a show say to non-fans of said show, "Anyone who doesn't like this show clearly just doesn't get it". That to me is the ultimate form of condescension. What that translates to in my mind is "My tiny mouse-like brain can't comprehend the notion that someone else doesn't revere this show like I do, and therefore anyone who doesn't worship this show must obviously be a moron".
That's always terrible justification when people play that card. It's the artist's job to convey their art to the masses, if the masses don't understand it, then it's the artist's fault. If people don't "get it", it's because it wasn't explained well enough.
If you need five people to explain a piece of art to you, then it's poorly made. The explanation has to be obvious on some level.
The hell?
Quote from: gunswordfist on December 21, 2012, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 21, 2012, 03:00:45 PM
Quote from: Silverstar on December 21, 2012, 07:51:55 AM
I don't like when hardcore fans of a show say to non-fans of said show, "Anyone who doesn't like this show clearly just doesn't get it". That to me is the ultimate form of condescension. What that translates to in my mind is "My tiny mouse-like brain can't comprehend the notion that someone else doesn't revere this show like I do, and therefore anyone who doesn't worship this show must obviously be a moron".
That's always terrible justification when people play that card. It's the artist's job to convey their art to the masses, if the masses don't understand it, then it's the artist's fault. If people don't "get it", it's because it wasn't explained well enough.
If you need five people to explain a piece of art to you, then it's poorly made. The explanation has to be obvious on some level.
The hell?
The artist's job is to express themselves to the world. If the world doesn't get it, then the artist has failed.
I don't think that was Silverstar's point at all, though. The point was that you CAN "get" a show (or any other form of art, for that matter) and still not like it. Then some people might say "if you don't like it, then you just don't get it," which is a shitty defense for a show (or, once again, any other form of art).
I pretty much agree with that point. Its OK if you like something and someone else doesn't, but its stupid to automatically assume that the person who doesn't like it doesn't get the subject material.
Now that I think of it, the perfect example of a show that I get perfectly fine but still don't care for is Samurai Jack, which I've already mentioned on this thread before.
I do get that its going for a bizarre stylistic-take and paying homage to many classic films from eastern to western, and I get that it tries to tell a lot through visuals rather than lots of dialogue, and that's just fine. It just so happens that I find the execution of the show to be pretty weak and it usually leaves me completely uninterested, which is why I don't consider it one of the greatest shows from Cartoon Network even though so many other people do. And its fine that everyone else loves it so much, which doesn't really bother me, but I've had people tell me that I just can't get it or something along those lines when I express my problems with the cartoon, and that has always pissed me off quite a bit.
I'm just saying that it's a weak argument to criticize detractors of anything including animation and that it's part of a larger problem in entertainment nowadays.
Some people try to dismantle arguments by saying the detractor doesn't "get it" (as Silverstar said) which is just a way to make criticism invalid and devalue someone's opinion, I get that. But in my opinion if you take that argument further you end up with what I stated above.
Either way, I don't like it either.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 21, 2012, 09:40:28 PM
Now that I think of it, the perfect example of a show that I get perfectly fine but still don't care for is Samurai Jack, which I've already mentioned on this thread before.
I do get that its going for a bizarre stylistic-take and paying homage to many classic films from eastern to western, and I get that it tries to tell a lot through visuals rather than lots of dialogue, and that's just fine. It just so happens that I find the execution of the show to be pretty weak and it usually leaves me completely uninterested, which is why I don't consider it one of the greatest shows from Cartoon Network even though so many other people do. And its fine that everyone else loves it so much, which doesn't really bother me, but I've had people tell me that I just can't get it or something along those lines when I express my problems with the cartoon, and that has always pissed me off quite a bit.
Well maybe you just don't get what Genndy was going for. Sounds like your problem and not the show's, so what is wrong with
you?
Hater.
Yes, I also find the show lacking when I watch it nowadays. ;)
9 times out of 10, when someone types "Anyone who doesn't like it just doesn't get it.", what they really want to say is "If you don't like my favorite show, then you're just stupid." The former is just a way of wording the latter that won't get the poster into trouble with the people in charge.
One case of this for me is definitely Nick's Hey, Arnold! For whatever reason, this show just never pulled me in. I understand that Craig Bartlett tried to make his show more than just a kids' comedy cartoon, but I didn't care for how some shorts would be played strictly for laughs while others would be almost completely humorless. This coupled with the fact that most Arnold's plots were so predictable that you could bet off of them. I guess that Hey, Arnold! was meant to be a "dramedy" (a mix of comedy and drama), but I just never cared for the shows' approach. Plus, it was clear that Mr. Bartlett enjoyed the character of Helga much more than I did. I personally thought that the episode "Helga On the Couch" was a total bore. I felt like the only person on the planet who didn't find that ep to be some masterpiece in miniature. So naturally, when I typed my views of Arnold! on Toon Zone, some pretentious d-bag hit me with "Well, you obviously don't get it."
This is more about some hardcore fans than it is about animation itself; I find it annoying when some hardcore fans can't accept that a show they really like gets canceled and so they pull these insane conspiracy theories out of their pants as to the "real" reason why "their" show got the ax. "So-and-so show was canceled because the head of the network hated it and wanted it gone." "Hi-Hi Puffy Ami-Yumi was canceled because the President of Cartoon Network has a prejudice against Japan!" Never mind the fact that HHPAY was about Japanese as a Quarter Pounder. It's never because it wasn't getting the ratings. My favorite excuse of all time is "Class of 3000 was canceled because the President of CN is a racist who thinks Andre Benjamin is a gangster because he played one in the movie Four Brothers." :lol:
"HHPAY was about Japanese as a Quarter Pounder"
I spit on my screen due to laughter from this part. I need to sig this.
Quote from: Goldstar on December 22, 2012, 09:35:27 AM
This is more about some hardcore fans than it is about animation itself; I find it annoying when some hardcore fans can't accept that a show they really like gets canceled and so they pull these insane conspiracy theories out of their pants as to the "real" reason why "their" show got the ax. "So-and-so show was canceled because the head of the network hated it and wanted it gone." "Hi-Hi Puffy Ami-Yumi was canceled because the President of Cartoon Network has a prejudice against Japan!" Never mind the fact that HHPAY was about Japanese as a Quarter Pounder. It's never because it wasn't getting the ratings. My favorite excuse of all time is "Class of 3000 was canceled because the President of CN is a racist who thinks Andre Benjamin is a gangster because he played one in the movie Four Brothers." :lol:
Maybe it's just because the shows were terrible.
And Andre 3000 is gangster, Outkast is so gangster.
Class of 3000 at least had a pretty cool pilot special.
And I wanna do a candy toss.
I enjoyed Class of 3000 also, but the shows' ratings weren't that great and the show was too expensive to keep producing if only a few people were going to watch. That's why Co3 was canceled. It had nothing to do with racism or anything else.
Interestingly, some Hi-Hi Puffy Ami Yumi fans have tried to scapegoat Co3 as being the reason why PAY was canceled. Because "Cartoon Network didn't want 2 shows about musicians". You know that's bs because if 1 show about a musician brought in monster sized ratings for CN, the network would immediately order 7 more.
I remember Puffy doing pretty okay at one point, but never was a monster-sized hit. CN really wanted it to become their next PPG, and they over-marketed it so it could be, but the show just never became that popular.
I also remember reading a line from Lauren Faust saying that the show was so bad and that if it didn't do well, it would mean the end of girl-lead shows for Cartoon Network. It pretty much did, too.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 21, 2012, 09:40:28 PM
Now that I think of it, the perfect example of a show that I get perfectly fine but still don't care for is Samurai Jack, which I've already mentioned on this thread before.
I do get that its going for a bizarre stylistic-take and paying homage to many classic films from eastern to western, and I get that it tries to tell a lot through visuals rather than lots of dialogue, and that's just fine. It just so happens that I find the execution of the show to be pretty weak and it usually leaves me completely uninterested, which is why I don't consider it one of the greatest shows from Cartoon Network even though so many other people do. And its fine that everyone else loves it so much, which doesn't really bother me, but I've had people tell me that I just can't get it or something along those lines when I express my problems with the cartoon, and that has always pissed me off quite a bit.
One show that I always seem to get accused of "just not getting" because I'm personally not into it is
Adventure Time. Whenever I say that I'm not into the stories or the show's style of execution and how I'd personally prefer if AT were just a wacky comedy cartoon, I get slapped with "Oh, you just don't get it! It's great that it's more than just a comedy, it has the post-apocalyptic setting, drama, story arcs, character development, blah blah blah". Again, I don't have any problem understanding all that; I'm just not personally into it. I get AT fine, I just don't find the stuff they do on it to be entertaining, I don't care for a lot of the characters, I don't find the stories interesting and I would rather it just focus on being funny.
Admittedly, it's hard for me to accept
Adventure Time as anything other than a goofy comedy due to the show's childlike art style, bright colors and goofy characters. Don't put a show on the air starring a spazzy kid wearing a bear hat, a magical talking dog and colorful living candy people and then expect me to take it seriously as an adventure/drama.
I don't think Zemeckis' Christmas Carol is all that bad.
The first Code Geass is on the same level as R2. In other words, shit. I also find Spinzaku more interesting then Ledouch.
The first season of Korra is a textbook case of "Good Idea, Poor Execution".
While he has made some impressive films, I think Don Bluth gets overrated a lot.
Tron Uprising is the best new show of the year.
Anything else I could say seems to have already been brought up.
Quote from: Graywulf76 on January 02, 2013, 04:49:55 PMThe first Code Geass is on the same level as R2. In other words, shit. I also find Spinzaku more interesting then Ledouch.
You and I are in complete agreement, sir! :thumbup:
I enjoyed Korra, but I really do think the season finale episodes were absolute crap barring the boat scene.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on January 02, 2013, 09:28:24 PM
I enjoyed Korra, but I really do think the season finale episodes were absolute crap barring the boat scene.
That scene got to me. I thought the finale and the episode where the Fire Ferrets and Mako's gf patrol the city felt forced and rushed.
I like Korra, especially some of the characters and the setting, but like I said its a good idea with bad execution. While it started off ok, the rest of the season completely dropped the ball IMO. The crappy love triangle took over and two of the main characters were pushed to the side so that the other two could get together in a very shallow relationship. None of the characters were developed, Korra herself remaining selfish,arrogant and getting every thing she wants. Mako wasn't called out for all the dick moves he made. The Equalists movement was brushed aside as just being evil without anyone suggesting they might actually have a point.
There are a bunch of other little things, like how Korra treats Asami like crap because shes "prissy", and Lin's dislike of Korra apparently coming from a past breakup rather then because Korra is so destructive, that also bothered be.
I'm sorry if it seems I'm bashing this show, but I really do want to enjoy it more and see it improve.
That's enough ranting for one day. :sweat:
Nah, you make valid points. Those were problems with the show. I hated the love triangle, thought Mako was boring, felt that the way Korra got her airbending was stupid, thought the Equalist movement was portrayed poorly (showing both the pros and cons and putting it into more of a gray area would have been more interesting), etc. It really felt like having a 20-episode season like the first series would have done it some justice. But I enjoyed it for what it was otherwise. I still loved the vibe of the show and the action scenes are some of the best in animation today.
I just hope they use the amount of episodes they have in the upcoming seasons wisely and don't try to cram too much into one season next time.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on January 03, 2013, 01:13:48 PM
Nah, you make valid points. Those were problems with the show. I hated the love triangle, thought Mako was boring, felt that the way Korra got her airbending was stupid, thought the Equalist movement was portrayed poorly (showing both the pros and cons and putting it into more of a gray area would have been more interesting), etc. It really felt like having a 20-episode season like the first series would have done it some justice. But I enjoyed it for what it was otherwise. I still loved the vibe of the show and the action scenes are some of the best in animation today.
I just hope they use the amount of episodes they have in the upcoming seasons wisely and don't try to cram too much into one season next time.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Fad50bb03d1ba375982e6d4d5a748912d%2Ftumblr_mfyb8t4WZx1s25i9io1_400.gif&hash=47c574e19175cdbfa3715d4ce56be75c60371edc)
I do like the Korra's vibe more. TLA felt like a generic Asian-ish series, while Korra feels like the orginal series meets Batman Beyond meets Baccano.
I also really dig the soundtrack.
Another prime example of "good idea, horrible execution" was Chowder. I liked some of the gags and the setting, and the first season was pretty decent, but it quickly started going south by season 2, particularly around the episode "The Apprentice Games". The basic premise of a master chef teaching his apprentice to cook was tossed to the side in favor of everyone just repeating their trademarks shticks and catchphrases over and over, the writers cranked up a single aspect of each character's personality (Chowder's stupidity, Panini's stalker-ish obsession with Chowder, etc.) up to 11 and discarded any potential depth, heart or character development, everybody started breaking the 4th wall all the damn time (I don't mind the occasional meta joke once in a while, but this show did it over and over to the point of irritation), several of the voice actors (particularly Nick Jones, who voiced Chowder) began screaming all of their lines, the writers began shoehorning the character of Gazpacho into every single episode 'just because', (they must have figured "Gazpacho's funny so we'll use him every chance we get, regardless if the story actually calls for him or not"), the sense of whimsy and wonder that permeated the first season was gone and all of the characters degenerated into being 1-dimensional shtick machines. By the series' end it was just another SpongeBob Squarepants wannabe featuring weird characters doing loud and slightly off-color slapstick.
I have nothing against wackiness and slapstick; heck, they're 2 of my favorite things in cartoons, but when it's just yuk-yuks with no feeling of sincerity or professionalism behind them, that's when zany falls flat in my book.
For a while Chowder was being touted as Cartoon Network's next big thing, and I really wanted to like this show more than I did, but it just ended up falling flat on its' face.
I'm starting to get the impression that Michael Reeves was doing most of the heavylifting for Gargoyles instead of Greg.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 04, 2013, 11:03:11 AM
I'm starting to get the impression that Michael Reeves was doing most of the heavylifting for Gargoyles instead of Greg.
Care to elaborate?
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 04, 2013, 03:07:04 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 04, 2013, 11:03:11 AM
I'm starting to get the impression that Michael Reeves was doing most of the heavylifting for Gargoyles instead of Greg.
Care to elaborate?
The episode guide shows that Greg only personally wrote one episode of Gargoyles, and that was for The Goliath Chronicles. Also, his work on Gargoyles by himself with the Clan Building comic left much to be desired.
But he was the creator, executive producer, and showrunner, wasn't he? That typically means he is the one that assigns everything and has the final say. A bad showrunner will kill a show, even if the writers are good.
That's like saying George Lucas was responsible for what made Star Wars good, when everyone knows the editors basically did the job for him. Not to say that Weisman is anything as bad as Lucas though.
I dunno, looking at what he did since Gargoyles seems to show me that he must have had considerable weight in making said show good.
I didn't get into Secret Saturdays just because the name sucked.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on January 04, 2013, 04:22:15 PM
I dunno, looking at what he did since Gargoyles seems to show me that he must have had considerable weight in making said show good.
Yeah, Young Justice is turning out to be a hit, isn't it?
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 04, 2013, 05:42:02 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on January 04, 2013, 04:22:15 PM
I dunno, looking at what he did since Gargoyles seems to show me that he must have had considerable weight in making said show good.
Yeah, Young Justice is turning out to be a hit, isn't it?
I... was talking more about TSSM and Witch, actually. And the first season of Young Justice was also really good.
I'm not sure why one season that isn't all that suddenly pulls into question his entire body of work.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 04, 2013, 05:42:02 PM
Yeah, Young Justice is turning out to be a hit, isn't it?
So, 2 seasons of Gargoyles and The Spectacular Spider-Man don't exist all of a sudden because 1 season of Young Justice happens to be a turd? Its possible for talented creators/writers to make shit works every now and then. It doesn't mean you can negate the good stuff that they were behind making as well.
Eh, WITCH had some of the vices that YJ would eventually get. SSM was really good though. Can't deny that. And while I'm not trying to sully Weisman's name, it's a discredit to not acknowledge Reaves who had a credited hand in 22 episodes of Gargoyles. That's like giving all the praise to Stan Lee for creating the Marvel Universe when Kirby and Ditko did all the real work.
Ditko didn't do a damn thing for Spider-Man but draw.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 04, 2013, 05:48:41 PM
Eh, WITCH had some of the vices that YJ would eventually get. SSM was really good though. Can't deny that. And while I'm not trying to sully Weisman's name, it's a discredit to not acknowledge Reaves who had a credited hand in 22 episodes of Gargoyles. That's like giving all the praise to Stan Lee for creating the Marvel Universe when Kirby and Ditko did all the real work.
Me and Desensitized were never trying to discredit Reaves or any of the other writers or staff members who worked on Gargoyles, or any of the other shows that Weisman was involved with. It just sounded like you were trying to discredit Weisman's input in contributing towards making those shows great, which I personally don't agree with, though to be fair I hardly know any of what goes on behind the scenes with creating an animated show, and no amount of research would really make me sure who deserves the most credit or not. I like to think that the good shows that he was involved with were good thanks to a joint effort from the entire staff behind it to make as good of a show as possible, rather than trying to credit just 1 or 2 guys over everyone else.
Of course it takes a whole team to make a show great. Reaves was obviously an important member of the team and deserves credit for his writing. But I do think Weisman was really good at planning, arranging, and pushing everything forward the way a team leader should.
He deserves the credit he's gotten, IMO.
Quote from: Avaitor on January 04, 2013, 06:45:24 PM
Ditko didn't do a damn thing for Spider-Man but draw.
The Marvel Method.
Are you trying to open Pandora's Box, Dr.. Even I know when to shut up. .3.
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 04, 2013, 09:56:32 PM
Are you trying to open Pandora's Box, Dr.. Even I know when to shut up. .3.
Eh, everyone who reads up on it knows that the Marvel universe was the house that Jack and Steve built.
Paul Dini needs to stop taking credit for the entire DCAU.
Okay, elaborating a little. All the credit that Paul Dini gets for "Batman" actually belongs to Alan Burnett. Alan Burnett was Bruce Timm's partner on "Batman" and the entire DCAU. He ran story while Timm ran art. Alan Burnett was the Greg Weisman of the DCAU and Bruce Timm was the Frank Paur.
Paul Dini was a staff writer, but he answered to Alan. Alan was his boss, involved with every script and premise from start to finish.
Dini gets all the credit from the fans for what Alan Burnett did, and enjoyed a lot of success that really belongs to Alan Burnett. At this point, Dini has a moral obligation to give credit where credit is due, instead of being a glory hogging schmuck.
I think the Fantastic Four are cooler than Batman, except for Franklin Richards, who's too freakin' powerful. I don't like superheroes who are basically God. For all the people who complain that Superman is too powerful, Supey is a gnat compared to Frankie.
X-Men only works in its' own stand-alone universe where mutants are the only super-beings on the planet. Once you start tossing in gamma green giants, Asgardian gods, supreme sorcerers, chemically-created super-soldiers and heroes who were mutated by cosmic rays, most of whom somehow manage to escape the hate, fear and endless persecution by the general public, it starts to not make sense in a big way. (Of course, I think the point might be to show how irrational prejudice against muties is supposed to be.)
Lately I'm getting more into the Littlest Pet Shop cartoon on The Hub. It's not perfect, and I have minor nitpicks with it, but it's shaping up to be better than I originally thought it would be. I think I'm starting to like LPS a little more than My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, to be honest. But my favorite Hub show is still The Aquabats! Super Show!.
So many Marvel characters/groups would work better in separate universes. I remember laughing pretty hard at a post about why Black Cat has never been attacked by a vampire on another site.
Quote from: Silverstar on January 13, 2013, 11:00:35 AMX-Men only works in its' own stand-alone universe where mutants are the only super-beings on the planet. Once you start tossing in gamma green giants, Asgardian gods, supreme sorcerers, chemically-created super-soldiers and heroes who were mutated by cosmic rays, most of whom somehow manage to escape the hate, fear and endless persecution by the general public, it starts to not make sense in a big way. (Of course, I think the point might be to show how irrational prejudice against muties is supposed to be.)
I constantly find it odd when they keep bashing mutants in the canon, yet are perfectly fine with people like the Hulk or Thor running around. It makes itself seem a really out of place paranoia that doesn't make a whole lot of sense when they are only different from mutants on a really small scale. If the whole mutant thing was contained to the early days of superheroes in the storyline (instead of being retconned all the time), then it would be fine, but that it's been going on so long with so many other aliens, super-powered people, and monsters running around it's just out of place.
^And historically, mutants were created partially out of pure laziness. Stan Lee reportedly conceived the idea of mutants partially as a way to introduce new Supers without having to come up with complicated origins for them or involved explanations of how they got their powers. Just say they were born that way.
I never really got the point of animated realism. Some shows go to great lengths to create such a sense of realism that I just can't help but feel that this should have just been done in live action. I remember Beck getting praised for how realistic it was, and it even got a live-action movie!
Quote from: Graywulf76 on January 15, 2013, 06:24:56 PM
I never really got the point of animated realism. Some shows go to great lengths to create such a sense of realism that I just can't help but feel that this should have just been done in live action. I remember Beck getting praised for how realistic it was, and it even got a live-action movie!
Yeah, I never got the fascination with "animated reality", especially stuff like motion capture, I always found that to be a tad creepy and off-putting. I never got why some people want to make cartoons look as realistic as possible. Part of what makes animation so interesting to me is that stuff can be exaggerated. If you're going to limit yourself to 'real' physics and dimensions and the like, you might as well just work in live-action.
Right off the top of my head (at the moment):
-I liked Shrek Forever After better than Shrek 2, due to the fact that plotlines involving alternate timelines/worlds draw me in.
-Every time on youtube/yahoo answers I say either "There's plenty of good cartoons to watch on today's tv" or "I'd rather take Gravity Falls over any Hannah Barbara production anyday", you bet that I get some nasty replies/thumbs down following that. Seriously, I don't know why so many people act as if bad cartoons rarely existed until about 8 years ago (actually I do know why, because those people *cough*90skids*cough* refuse to take off their nostalgia glasses and/or embrace change, in a nutshell). I've recently rewatched a lot of the cartoons made/airing during my childhood (I was born in '92), and less than half of the stuff I watched then still hold up today.
-I still like Animaniacs (especially for Slappy Squirrel and the Warners) and Freakazoid, but within the past year or so, I've been finding myself drawn to Tiny Toons much more. Elmyra may have been annoying, but all the other characters (especially Montana Max) more than make up for it. In my opinion, Tiny Toons>Freakazoid>Animaniacs.
Yeah, I like Tiny Toons better too. I know the popular opinion is that Animaniacs is the best thing out of the Silver Age, but I tend to have a lot more fun with Tiny Toons. I feel it's a lot more consistent and likeable as a whole.
Quote from: Cyberville Outcast on January 15, 2013, 10:08:43 PM
Right off the top of my head (at the moment):
-Every time on youtube/yahoo answers I say either "There's plenty of good cartoons to watch on today's tv" or "I'd rather take Gravity Falls over any Hannah Barbara production anyday", you bet that I get some nasty replies/thumbs down following that. Seriously, I don't know why so many people act as if bad cartoons rarely existed until about 8 years ago (actually I do know why, because those people *cough*90skids*cough* refuse to take off their nostalgia glasses and/or embrace change, in a nutshell). I've recently rewatched a lot of the cartoons made/airing during my childhood (I was born in '92), and less than half of the stuff I watched then still hold up today.
This. THIS. So much this. It's so refreshing to know that there are some other people on the planet who don't think all or most of today's cartoons are swill. That's the popular opinion on the other board I'm on, The Big Cartoon Database, and I get so tired of the "old cartoons=good, new cartoons=bad" rhetoric that I want to tear my hair out. For me, a lot of the so-called "classics" from the so-called "golden age" of animation were dreck when they were new. I actually feel that animation as a whole has gotten progressively
better over the past few decades rather than the reverse.
Quote-I still like Animaniacs (especially for Slappy Squirrel and the Warners) and Freakazoid, but within the past year or so, I've been finding myself drawn to Tiny Toons much more. Elmyra may have been annoying, but all the other characters (especially Montana Max) more than make up for it. In my opinion, Tiny Toons>Freakazoid>Animaniacs.
I haven't seen
Tiny Toons in a while (I probably should get around to buying some of those DVDs) but yeah, I've been catching glimpses of
Animaniacs now that it's on The Hub and the only shorts that really do anything for me now are the ones with the Warners, Slappy and Pinky & the Brain.
I think both Tiny Toons and Animaniacs are both boring
Well, there are 2 types of people in this world: people who like Animaniacs, and people who don't like Animaniacs (Sorry, couldn't resist). :D
As much as I enjoyed Pinky and the Brain, I don't think that they needed their own spinoff series. I liked P&tB when it was just a recurring segment on Animaniacs, but non-stop P&tB for 22 minutes each week without a break, it got old pretty fast. For some reason, I felt that P&tB worked best in short intervals. The shows' last season when the network started messing with the show, was particularly unenjoyable. The WB wanted to make P&tB their version of The Simpsons. They didn't want taking over the world to be the characters' primary goal anymore, which ultimately led to the gawdawful Pinky, Elmyra & the Brain, a thing that was so dreadful that it lead to Peter Hastings leaving Warner Brothers to work elsewhere.
Honestly, while I like them just fine, I can't say I really like any of the Silver Age shows. Only every once in a while do they make me laugh as hard as a good Looney Tune will.
Although I can say with certainty that Freakazoid is the single funniest character of the entire Silver Age.
Also, bitchin new avatar, Goldstar. :thumbup:
I have a few.
I think Woody Woodpecker is severely underrated and dismissed by many as a poor man's Daffy Duck. He had a distinctive personality and some great cartoons especially in the 40s. But I don't find many of his 50s-70s toons watchable. The voice never sounds right. Walter Lantz said he never knew his wife auditioned, but I don't know if I believe him.
Jonny Quest, Yogi Bear, and parts of The Flintstones/Jetsons are the only worthwhile output by Hanna-Barbera. I also like the later seasons of Flintstones more, when it stopped being animated
Honeymooners and became weird (Great Gazoo, the Bewitched couple guest star, Fred turning into an ape/being cloned). The early seasons are boring. I'll also admit I kinda like Wacky Races, but only in short bursts.
I like a lot of the late 50s-early 60s Looney Tunes (after the so called "Golden Age" but before Cool Cat and the spinning abstract titles). There's some great gems in there like The Million Hare, Transylvania 6-500, Mad as a Mars Hare, Now Hear This, and some others I don't remember right now. It's not their zenith but they're still fun to watch.
I thought Ren & Stimpy was pretty good overall, and I admire John K as an artist. But he has horrible business sense and a lot of his fans are insufferable. On the flip side, others seem to think he has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I don't worship at his feet but I don't actively hate him either.
Friz Freleng > Chuck Jones. For one thing, he created Yosemite Sam. And I find his cartoons to be funnier on the whole. Chuck Jones directed one too many Road Runners for his own good. His cartoons also have an annoying cuteness to them. Friz Freleng seems to get the shaft in most peoples eyes (John K calls him a hack. Proof I don't follow his every word.)
Quote from: Goldstar on January 16, 2013, 03:09:45 PM
As much as I enjoyed Pinky and the Brain, I don't think that they needed their own spinoff series. I liked P&tB when it was just a recurring segment on Animaniacs, but non-stop P&tB for 22 minutes each week without a break, it got old pretty fast. For some reason, I felt that P&tB worked best in short intervals.
I didn't understand the point of this either. For years, I thought they didn't make new P&TB segments for the standalone show.
I agree with Woody Woodpecker. He gets way too much guff.
Quote from: AddThreeAndFive on January 16, 2013, 10:29:15 PMI thought Ren & Stimpy was pretty good overall, and I admire John K as an artist. But he has horrible business sense and a lot of his fans are insufferable. On the flip side, others seem to think he has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I don't worship at his feet but I don't actively hate him either.
My biggest issue is that the man has no writing skills. His animation and art can be impressive but more often than not its his terrible inability to craft a joke than turns me away from his material.
I didn't like Ren and Stimpy. It did have its moments. But I just found it to be a lot of nonsense with little actual substance. A lot of people say the adult version they later made was absolute garbage. And I can wholly imagine that being the truth. But it doesn't make the original anything great, even if it is gold compared to its later episodes.
Walter Lantz's stuff is ripe for rediscovery, his Woody Woodpecker classics most of all.
But you prefer the later Flintstones, really? There's some fun episodes in there, but a lot of the weaker ones that people refer to when they think about the show.
Don't ever watch Adult Party Cartoon.
Quote from: AddThreeAndFive on January 16, 2013, 10:29:15 PM
Jonny Quest, Yogi Bear, and parts of The Flintstones/Jetsons are the only worthwhile output by Hanna-Barbera
:thumbup:
And they are actually good, unlike what some people think.
Eh, I could never really get into The Flintstones. It offered some chuckles here and there, but overall the show never clicked with me. Aside from how for the most part it was just a) The Honeymooners in animated form and b) illustrated radio, I never saw the point of the whole "modern Stone Age family" gimmick. If you're going to make a prehistoric society that mimics present day society so closely, then you might as well just set the show in modern times. If I'm watching a show about cavemen, I want to see them living like cavemen and doing caveman stuff, like hunting and gathering, having tribal rituals, discovering new things for the first time, etc.
Plus, it never made sense how the people in Bedrock celebrated Christmas millions of years before the birth of Jesus. I know that's over-thinking it, but yeah.
Quote from: Goldstar on January 16, 2013, 03:09:45 PM
Well, there are 2 types of people in this world: people who like Animaniacs, and people who don't like Animaniacs (Sorry, couldn't resist). :D
As much as I enjoyed Pinky and the Brain, I don't think that they needed their own spinoff series. I liked P&tB when it was just a recurring segment on Animaniacs, but non-stop P&tB for 22 minutes each week without a break, it got old pretty fast. For some reason, I felt that P&tB worked best in short intervals. The shows' last season when the network started messing with the show, was particularly unenjoyable. The WB wanted to make P&tB their version of The Simpsons. They didn't want taking over the world to be the characters' primary goal anymore, which ultimately led to the gawdawful Pinky, Elmyra & the Brain, a thing that was so dreadful that it lead to Peter Hastings leaving Warner Brothers to work elsewhere.
Funny enough PB is the only thing I liked about Animaniacs. Everything else put me to sleep. :D
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 17, 2013, 09:04:47 AMFunny enough PB is the only thing I liked about Animaniacs. Everything else put me to sleep. :D
Even a casual fan of
Pinky & The Brain wouldn't like
Pinky, Elmyra & The Brain. In fact, they didn't. It would've been an imrpovement to PE&B if it had been merely sleep-inducing; it was so jaw-droppingly bad that you'd find yourself wanting to stick your tongue into a light socket just for some relief. It's every bit as bad as you've heard.
Here's another one: I actually didn't mind Teletoon's 2007 remake of
George of the Jungle. No, it didn't hold a candle to Jay Ward's original, and if you compare the 2, the original GotJ wins easily, but I thought the new series was still OK, if you viewed it as its' own thing and didn't constantly try to stack it up against the original. I certainly didn't see it as some abomination against God and nature like so many people on Toon Zone did.
Quote from: Avaitor on January 17, 2013, 07:27:22 AM
And they are actually good, unlike what some people think.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F3de165a91ebeb93f797775303855a46d%2Ftumblr_mg60s9XkrF1rtwoppo1_500.jpg&hash=ef4f9aea9b14ca009e2ebf58e8a494676878dbf6)
Quote from: Silverstar on January 17, 2013, 09:14:09 AMHere's another one: I actually didn't mind Teletoon's 2007 remake of George of the Jungle. No, it didn't hold a candle to Jay Ward's original, and if you compare the 2, the original GotJ wins easily, but I thought the new series was still OK, if you viewed it as its' own thing and didn't constantly try to stack it up against the original. I certainly didn't see it as some abomination against God and nature like so many people on Toon Zone did.
Same here. I'm a huge fan of Jay Ward and I know even Hoppity Hooper was better than it but it was still an alright show. I do think it got better towards its end, especially with that 4-part finale episode.
I never liked Ed, Edd, & Eddy all that much. I was definitely a Cartoon Network kid but that show always made me turn to Nick. Everyone was a jerk to each other. Eddy would try to con the kids, Kevin would call him a dork, Jimmy would rat on them to Sarah, Sarah would blow up at them. I don't know why people find that stuff funny. The animation was pretty messy too. I preferred the clean style of the other cartoons. Also the Kanker sisters. I did like Johnny but he wasn't used enough. I just think CN had better cartoons than that one and I don't know why it lasted so long. It feels like an animated It's Always Sunny, another jerk show that I can't get into.
I didn't like Megas XLR either. I remember watching it as part of a "vote for the newest Cartoon Cartoon" block and I didn't like it. The characters just seemed too obnoxious and "bro" for me then. Of course, the one I liked didn't make it to series.
Cartoons I did like that no one talks about anymore are Time Squad, Sheep in the Big City, Robotomy (it was like Superjail but without the disgusting parts), and the Problem Solverz. Yes, you heard me. It's supposed to be bad because it's ironic. But I appreciated it on a non-ironic level too. I also liked Secret Mountain Fort Awesome (though that took a few viewings to grow on me). Maybe I'd like Megas XLR more now because SMFA was filled with bro humor.
Quote from: Silverstar on January 17, 2013, 09:14:09 AM
Even a casual fan of Pinky & The Brain wouldn't like Pinky, Elmyra & The Brain. In fact, they didn't. It would've been an imrpovement to PE&B if it had been merely sleep-inducing; it was so jaw-droppingly bad that you'd find yourself wanting to stick your tongue into a light socket just for some relief. It's every bit as bad as you've heard.
I loved "Pinky and the Brain". As for how bad "Pinky, Elmyra and the Brain" was... it was an even worse case of series rape than "The Goliath Chronicles" was. Yeah, I said it.
You know, in my previous theory about the idea that Weisman didn't do as much of the work for Gargoyles as had been thought, I can't help but see the amusement in questioning the authorship of a Shakespeare fan.
Also, Jetsons was a horrible cartoon. Not even by subjective standards. The series was an awful stain that deserves to rot in obscurity instead of be lauded as some kind of nostalgic comfort food.
Static Shock would have been great if they followed the first season or so's format. Mainly, no Gear. Richie was dull as a sidekick. Also, She-Bang sucked too. Anyway, all of the focus should have been on Vergil dealing with being a superhero. A good example is the episode where he was showing off as Static to impress his crush and then she gets injured because he was too busy playing around. Then he goes off and gets real angry and eventually gets called out and told its his fault for her getting hurt. If there was more storylines like then I would like the show more than I already do.
Quote from: AddThreeAndFive on January 17, 2013, 11:28:53 AM
I didn't like Megas XLR either. I remember watching it as part of a "vote for the newest Cartoon Cartoon" block and I didn't like it. The characters just seemed too obnoxious and "bro" for me then. Of course, the one I liked didn't make it to series.
Megas is essentially what would happen if you gave to geeky idiots the universe's ultimate mecha weapon. Its best moments come from demolishing accepts of mecha anime and even science fiction in general.
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 17, 2013, 01:42:16 PM
Also, She-Bang sucked too.
Was somebody actually named this? :lol:
Quote from: AddThreeAndFive on January 17, 2013, 11:28:53 AMCartoons I did like that no one talks about anymore are Time Squad, Sheep in the Big City, Robotomy (it was like Superjail but without the disgusting parts), and the Problem Solverz. Yes, you heard me. It's supposed to be bad because it's ironic. But I appreciated it on a non-ironic level too. I also liked Secret Mountain Fort Awesome (though that took a few viewings to grow on me). Maybe I'd like Megas XLR more now because SMFA was filled with bro humor.
Time Squad and
Sheep in the Big City have pretty much been swept under the rug by CN never to be seen nor talked about again, but
Robotomy,
Problem Solverz and
Secret Mountain Fort Awesome will start airing on Cartoon Planet this month. I also liked SMFA, though it also took me a few airings to get into it; the character designs were off-putting and I'm also not big on "bro" humor, but eventually I was pulled in by the show's surreal silliness. Any cartoon that manages to sneak in a comedic reference to the classic short
Peace on Earth is worth a mention in my book.
As for
Static Shock, I actually kind of liked Gear; he was kind of a nerd superhero. He had potential, but the writers never did anything of note with him. The main thing that bugged me about SS was how they pandered so hard to make the show appealing to African-Americans. I'll watch any show if it's good and I find it interesting, I don't need the nonstop urban slang and hip-hop, funk and gospel-flavored soundtrack to make me feel like I'm being represented. Not all blacks are hip-hop urban.
I actually think it was the aeon flux of guest stars and crossovers that ultimately killed
Static Shock; they made it look like the show couldn't stand on its' own merits.
Yeah, I'm one that isn't hip hop urban. I did like the first theme song though. Catchy. Oh and so was Hotstreak's theme music. Also, in the comics Vergil is just a nerdy kid. Basically a black Spider-Man.
And yeah, I was thinking about how I also liked the show before all the crossovers and NBA superheroes. The show lacked focus at that point.
-Most Ghibli films are boring. Something about the pacing and how indifferent the characters can seem really throws me off. While I like Porco Rosso and Spirited Away, I can't really count them as favorites.
-I don't care how much you say Miyazaki's female characters are strong and "not Disney Princesses". I can't say I sympathize or even like any of them. I may even straight up dislike San.
- Pinocchio is the greatest animated Disney film, and maybe even the greatest animated film. I'm tired of everyone forgetting this movie exists when discussing what the greatest Disney movie is. Its at least better then Snow White.
And that's why it was a previous theory, not a currently upheld theory.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 17, 2013, 03:37:37 PM
And that's why it was a previous theory, not a currently upheld theory.
Fair enough. I misread, my apologies.
Quote from: GregX on January 17, 2013, 03:39:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 17, 2013, 03:37:37 PM
And that's why it was a previous theory, not a currently upheld theory.
Fair enough. I misread, my apologies.
Yeah, an English class talked about how Shakespeare's authorship was being questioned by fringe theorists involving the Earl of Oxford and Marlowe, and I thought, "Hey, this sounds like what I said several weeks ago about Weisman. And he's a Shakespeare fan. Oh, the coincidences." Thus, causing me to write that post.
However, I still uphold the theory that the Jetsons is shit.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 17, 2013, 03:41:42 PM
Quote from: GregX on January 17, 2013, 03:39:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on January 17, 2013, 03:37:37 PM
And that's why it was a previous theory, not a currently upheld theory.
Fair enough. I misread, my apologies.
Yeah, an English class talked about how Shakespeare's authorship was being questioned by fringe theorists involving the Earl of Oxford and Marlowe, and I thought, "Hey, this sounds like what I said several weeks ago about Weisman. And he's a Shakespeare fan. Oh, the coincidences." Thus, causing me to write that post.
However, I still uphold the theory that the Jetsons is shit.
Yeah, and whatshisface who directed "The Day After Tomorrow" made a movie about this theory: "Anonymous". Movie was shit.
Yeah, "Jetsons" is shit. But I'll admit most Hanna Barbera isn't my thing.
Oh God, Anonymous. Why, Derek Jacobi? Why?
Quote from: Graywulf on January 17, 2013, 03:13:05 PM
- Pinocchio is the greatest animated Disney film, and maybe even the greatest animated film. I'm tired of everyone forgetting this movie exists when discussing what the greatest Disney movie is. Its at least better then Snow White.
It's the critics choice for Best Disney Movie eva!!!!
But yeah, I'm just sick of the princess movies overshadowing everything else in the Disney canon.
I can see why John K always harps about "writers creating cartoons" if he himself is not a good one. Jealous much?
I think what I like about SMFA is that it didn't go after the hip crowd. It wasn't trying to be poignant like Adventure Time, edgy like Regular Show, or ironic like the Problem Solverz (or whatever the heck Annoying Orange is supposed to be). It has an unpretentious feel to it you don't see in many cartoons now.
Seconded on Disney princess overload. At least Wreck It Ralph subverted the formula a bit.
Cat's Don't Dance is a lot better than people remember it being.
Third....ed...the Princess overload. It's frustrating that people associate Disney with only princesses and fairy tales, as though Fantasia, Ichibod and Mr. Toad, The Great Mouse Detective, Tarzan, and Treasure Planet don't exist.
-I agree with Spark of Spirit, I really liked Cat's Don't Dance. Max was hilarious ("How does the kitty cat go?" *frighteningly meows* "Very GOOOOOOOOOOOOD"). Too bad it did abysmal at the box office.
-On the subject of Disney movies. As in I've always found movies like Jungle Book, The Great Mouse Detective and Wreck-It Ralph to be far more fun than say Cinderella, Snow White (well I liked the dwarves) and Sleeping Beauty, so I guess I fourth-ed the Princess overload. Though I don't completely shun them, my two favorite Disney movies that involve the princesses are Tangled and Aladdin. Beauty and the Beast & Mulan come second.
The pleas of overly-sensitive fans of cartoons who refuse to view any legitimate criticism with anything more than a petty glare have become so formulaic that I've found a cute, little Bingo sheet that perfectly describes them.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fswankivy.com%2FLJ%2Finheritancebingo.jpg&hash=14516e477e3fb28ea71d2f546ae040d815ff2174)
Just replace the Eragon references with whatever show's fans do any of these at the moment.
If you devote time to discussing the negative points of this series, you have no life. But discussing its strengths is a hobby.
WHAT?! Please tell me people don't talk like that.
I think Potterheads use this up as well.
Quote from: Avaitor on January 20, 2013, 10:45:08 AM
I think Potterheads use this up as well.
More like fanboys in general. Any series has its fans that will never accept any form of criticism to their favorite "masterpiece" of a work. That even includes series that I'm a fan of. For instance, as I've stated before, despite liking Hunter X Hunter, I also criticize a lot of weaker aspects of the series and blame it on Togashi being lazy with his writing. I once had some douche-bag attempt to counter all of my points by saying that I just didn't get that Togashi was an "eccentric" writer (the dude writes a somewhat dark shonen series, there's nothing fucking eccentric about it), which apparently was enough to wave off any so-called flaws I pointed out in his work. What a load.
Also, this applies to a lot of popular, well-liked series. For instance, I love Batman: The Animated Series as much as the next person, but I hate how so many people just typically seem to ignore that it has quite a few mediocre to downright bad episodes (in all honesty I'd say about a third of the episodes in the series fall into that range). You can still really love a series but admit that it has its flaws and problems, but I can't stand it when people try to cover up anything wrong with a series in order to hold the illusion that its absolutely perfect (for the record, I don't believe that there is a single work of art on this planet that I would consider to be absolutely perfect in every conceivable way). At least I can admit the faults of stuff that I like, and say that I still like it because for me the strengths outweigh the weaknesses.
For example, I pretty much hate most of the World Tour Segment of Gargoyles, and that's a pretty sizable chunk of episodes right there. That said, while I admit that its a bland spot for the series (at least to me), I still love the show because it also brought me some of the greatest and most memorable stories that I've ever personally seen in animation, such as City of Stone and The Gathering, just to name 2 of my favorite examples.
Oh, another thing. I don't get why Adventure Time fans think it can be such an allegorical and philosophical show, when it's nothing more than just a yuk-fest.
Not to say that it's a bad thing, but there's nothing to the show but laughs.
And its not even that consistently funny.
Walt Disney wasn't a racist.
Quote from: Graywulf on January 23, 2013, 12:25:07 PM
Walt Disney wasn't racist.
Amid Amidi, is that you? .3.
So, what does it say about Disney if I think Dreamworks will make a better Rime of the Ancient Mariner animated film than they would?
Quote from: Avaitor on February 11, 2013, 10:46:48 AM
The more I think about it, the more I realize that arguments against Ed, eDd n' Eddy are complete bullshit.
Careful now. There's a difference between defending a show from baseless accusations, and refusing to acknowledge valid criticisms. We don't want to be DarthGonzos here.
Which arguments? I can kinda see where people are coming from when they say "everyone's a jerk".
I know some people hated the episode of Ed, Edd n Eddy where the Eds were accused of a crime (I think it was piercing Jimmy's heart float with a hockey stick that was labeled "Eddy") but it was actually Jimmy who did it and he got away with it and the Eds were punished for something they never did (and then dragged off by the Kankers).
I know a lot of people also hate the "cursed phone" episode because Eddy is so viciously tortured throughout (even though he really does nothing wrong, other than not listening to Rolf), and the plot itself is even more off the wall than usual. I liked it, though. :??:
I dunno. To be honest, the only episodes of the show I don't really like at this point tends to be the stuff from Season 1, because quite frankly it just feels too slow and dated in comparison to the rest of the series. Season 2 was when things began to warm up, but Seasons 3+ is when it really hit its peak. Nary a dud to be found by that point.
Quote from: Eddy on February 11, 2013, 12:13:28 PM
I know some people hated the episode of Ed, Edd n Eddy where the Eds were accused of a crime (I think it was piercing Jimmy's heart float with a hockey stick that was labeled "Eddy") but it was actually Jimmy who did it and he got away with it and the Eds were punished for something they never did (and then dragged off by the Kankers).
I've always hated the premise for that episode, but I still found it funny, so I can't say I hate episode in and of itself.
Quote from: Kiddington on February 11, 2013, 12:32:07 PM
I dunno. To be honest, the only episodes of the show I don't really like at this point tends to be the stuff from Season 1, because quite frankly it just feels too slow and dated in comparison to the rest of the series. Season 2 was when things began to warm up, but Seasons 3+ is when it really hit its peak. Nary a dud to be found by that point.
Yeah, Season 1 feels odd compared to the rest of the series. Not bad, just not as good. Most of my favorites are from 3 and 4.
I made a stupid post, so I deleted it in case I hurt anyone's feelings. If you still want to talk about the show though, go for it.
I'm just curious what arguments you were referring to. I'm pretty sure I don't agree with them.
Oh, well when people say the show is really cruel and heartless, that the characters aren't relatable, that it's repetitive, it's poorly animated, stuff like that.
If you don't find the show funny, that's your prerogative. But it does feel like the people who vehemently hate this show (and there are a lot of people who do) don't really get the show at all.
Urg, I hate when people say all that stuff.
Wait, "poorly animated"? I'm no expert on animation quality, but I'm pretty sure that's not a legitimate complaint
The animation in the movie is bloody excellent.
The people who call this show poorly animated clearly don't know what the definition of "animation" is. I could understand people not caring for the art-style of this series, but that's a different matter entirely. If anything, this series is undisputed as having the best animation of any of the Cartoon Cartoons by default (admittedly, most of the other ones have pretty lazy animation, so that might not be much of a comparison in and of itself). The great thing about this series is that the animation always feels fluid and consistent. Its established really well that the laws of physics hardly apply in the "Universe" that the Ed(d)s' live in, and the animations constantly go wild with whatever bizarre kind of things they can come up with for the characters to do. If anything, this series is full of animation (one of the few cartoon shows that I know of that takes FULL advantage of the medium), so I just can't see how anyone could try and come up with the complaint that the animation sucks. Its just flat-out not true.
And for the record, I'm saying this as someone who isn't a die-hard fan. I like what I've seen of the show, and I actually need to see a lot more of it as I still haven't delved that much into the later seasons (and I need to see the movie, eventually), but even I can see how good the animation quality of this series is.
EEnE is one of the finest animated shows on TV. Period. The amount of quality and care that went into it is nearly unmatched. I mean, hell, the first four seasons were entirely hand-drawn and hand-colored; you just don't see that kind of effort in this day and age where Flash rules the roost.
I can understand the humor not being for everyone, but for someone to actually claim this show has poor animation? I just don't see it.
I always assumed the poorly animated part people bring up with EEnE was their squiggly outlines. I always assumed as a kid that was an artist decision or something. It was distracting at first, but I got over it.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 11, 2013, 04:23:55 PM
Its established really well that the laws of physics hardly apply in the "Universe" that the Ed(d)s' live in,
Actually, the laws of physics never existed to begin with. :D
And you guys are write, EEnE has some bloody amazing animation. Just another reason to love it.
I can vouch for this, too. I wasn't too fond of EEnE, but it was animated very well.
I mean, there's leeway and fair points for every other argument I posted earlier (although I've been growing weary of people attesting that a show is repetitive, since television is formulaic by nature), but the people who say that the show isn't well-drawn or animated are bold-face liars.
Yeah, like it or not, EEnE is one of the finest animated shows ever. People who think it has bad animation just don't like the shows artistic style.
I'm getting tired of certain people who wangst about there not being enough mature western animated series, and then turn around and claim something like Adventure Time is "deep" and "multi-layered".
Oh, and anime isn't its own medium. Its just cartoons from Japan.
Quote from: Graywulf on February 21, 2013, 09:02:48 AM
Oh, and anime isn't its own medium. Its just cartoons from Japan.
That's not really an opinion. That's a fact.
Although, technically, the Japanese refer to
any cartoon as "anime". ;)
I know, its just some people make a big deal about anime being its own separate,special thing, and there usually the same people who look down on western cartoons. I guess those kind of people are just a pet peeve of mind. What are you gonna do.
Quote from: Graywulf on February 21, 2013, 12:51:39 PM
I know, its just some people make a big deal about anime being its own separate,special thing, and there usually the same people who look down on western cartoons. I guess those kind of people are just a pet peeve of mind. What are you gonna do.
I know who you mean; you're talking about the "anime >>>>>>>>> cartoons" people. The statement that "anime is better than cartoons" never worked for me because anime
is cartoons. It's just cartoons from Japan. I've never understood why some people think that any cartoon from 1 country is inherently better than than any cartoon from another country. Are you honestly going to tell me that
Super Milk Chan is a better show than say,
Futurama just because the former is from Japan? I don't think so. Cartoons should be judged by the quality of their content, not just by their country of origin.
The thing about it is that most anime fans who make the above statement usually are the same types who are embarrassed to admit that they like cartoons and so they try to make the claim that all anime is so deep and layered and mature so's to separate it from USAnimation (which is what I like to call American cartoons). But here's the thing: anime means animation, and animation means cartoons. Therefore, if you like anime, you like cartoons. Deal with it. :bleh: ;)
Many of the people who make the claim that "anime is greater than cartoons" do so not only out of fear of the stigma that "cartoons are only for kids" (which is flawed logic because in Japan oatkus are considered as geeky there as cartoon nerds are here) but they also do so out of generalization; they're judging anime as a whole by the small handful of anime that get imported here (anime detractors do the same thing with comments like "Anime is all stuff about demon fighters and big breasted women!"), when in fact the anime that gets imported overseas is roughly about 10% of Japanese animation as a whole. Just as there are plenty of serious, deep and layered Western cartoons, there are plenty of check-your-brain-at-the-door, nonsensical silly anime that never gets imported over here.
You also have to keep in mind that there are a multitude of anime out there, and there is no specific target demographic among all of them in general. Just like Western cartoons, the range of target audiences for Japanese cartoons spreads across all ages. There ARE anime made specifically for kids, and there ARE anime made for teens and adults. The same thing really applies to cartoons over here. You have stuff like those old Nick Jr. shows that are clearly just meant for little kids and such. Then you have stuff like South Park, The Boondocks, Futurama, Archer, etc., that are geared towards older audiences. And of course we have stuff like Batman: The Animated Series and Gargoyles among other great cartoons that can appeal to both kids as well as adults who are able to get the more mature aspects of those shows that would fly over childrens' heads at a young age.
I find it funny when anime fans who are insecure about their love of cartoons of any kind try to separate it from cartoons of other countries (namely America) so that people won't get the idea of generalizing anime as being "just childish cartoons from Japan." That itself is a very naive and hypocritical generalization on their part, as they are essentially doing the same thing that they don't want other people to do, for something that they like, in attempting to generalize all Western cartoons into just one idea of what they think it is based on obviously little to no knowledge of the offerings from that spectrum of animation.
That said, I can still completely understand classifying anime as its own sub-category of animation. That's fair enough, but at the end of the day, its still animation, and whether you call it a cartoon or not, its still part of the same exact medium as animation from any country.
Another thing in the Anime vs Western toon debate that I always hate is whenever one side says that the other side cartoons all look the same. You know people that aren't fans of anime say that all anime looks the same and vice versa. Gee... I didn't know that Panty and Stocking, Gurren Lagann, One Piece, Studio Ghibli, Lupin III, Cowboy Bebop, Summer Wars etc. followed a cookie cutter character designs. You have blown my mind. How did I never notice this before? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
Newsflash, anime designs have just as much variety as what western toons can make, same logic applies for Western toons as well. It just depends on what work the character designers are willing do. Same for the animators. Of course, I understand if something looks the same, it's mostly due to how probably the creator of a series has another one under his belt. I mean, despite how much we don't like Camp Lazlo, you still can't deny that the art style is still basically Joe Murray's design.
- I know that it's not necessarily an unpopular opinion to say that I like the SpongeBob movie. Sure, there are many who disliked it. But as a whole, the majority were pretty satisfied with it and agree that it's one of the few Nickelodeon movie spin-offs that worked... However, what might be considered an unpopular opinion is the fact that I really loved it. It's a personal classic, one of my favorite animated films ever. I honestly like it better than any episode, even including seasons 1-3. I really can't describe just the amount of heart that, to me, brims off of this movie. But I do think everything in it works. It has everything I like in the TV show, but bigger and better. Also, I enjoy SpongeBob and Patrick more here than in any individual episode. I love the humor. I also love the soundtrack, be it the songs of the background music throughout the movie. It looks great, the humor is top notch, and the live action sequences are lovable (though maybe they were a little over advertised before the movie came out, considering they only took up, like, 10 minutes of the film). I remember when it came to DVD and I rented it from Blockbuster and watched it every night until we had to return it. I'm sure I have 95% of the dialogue in the movie memorized. It's been a few years since I've seen it from start to finish. But I've seen bits and pieces of it when it's aired on TV, and I still love it. I also think it's worth mentioning that, in terms of overall style, it's really more in line with the classic episodes, than with the later ones.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 25, 2013, 02:06:09 PM
- I know that it's not necessarily an unpopular opinion to say that I like the SpongeBob movie. Sure, there are many who disliked it. But as a whole, the majority were pretty satisfied with it and agree that it's one of the few Nickelodeon movie spin-offs that worked... However, what might be considered an unpopular opinion is the fact that I really loved it. It's a personal classic, one of my favorite animated films ever. I honestly like it better than any episode, even including seasons 1-3. I really can't describe just the amount of heart that, to me, brims off of this movie. But I do think everything in it works. It has everything I like in the TV show, but bigger and better. Also, I enjoy SpongeBob and Patrick more here than in any individual episode. I love the humor. I also love the soundtrack, be it the songs of the background music throughout the movie. It looks great, the humor is top notch, and the live action sequences are lovable (though maybe they were a little over advertised before the movie came out, considering they only took up, like, 10 minutes of the film). I remember when it came to DVD and I rented it from Blockbuster and watched it every night until we had to return it. I'm sure I have 95% of the dialogue in the movie memorized. It's been a few years since I've seen it from start to finish. But I've seen bits and pieces of it when it's aired on TV, and I still love it. I also think it's worth mentioning that, in terms of overall style, it's really more in line with the classic episodes, than with the later ones.
As a big Sponge fan myself, I'm inclined to agree. Sure, it has a ton of problems, but like the show, it just works for me.
Quote from: Graywulf on February 25, 2013, 03:47:22 PM
As a big Sponge fan myself, I'm inclined to agree. Sure, it has a ton of problems, but like the show, it just works for me.
The show, or the movie, has a ton of problems? And what specifically?
That "Spongebob and Patrick get drunk and hung over from ice cream" sequence is still one of the funniest things the series has ever done. I love the movie.
It's also worth mentioning that the movie, as well as the SpongeBob franchise in general, is one of the many things that inspired me on my marine biology future. Largely cause of the DVD's special features (one of which went into undersea life stuff).
Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 25, 2013, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: Graywulf on February 25, 2013, 03:47:22 PM
As a big Sponge fan myself, I'm inclined to agree. Sure, it has a ton of problems, but like the show, it just works for me.
The show, or the movie, has a ton of problems? And what specifically?
I meant the movie had some problems, but I like it anyway. The show isn't the greatest, but it "just works for me". The movie isn't the greatest, but it "just works for me". I hope that explains it.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on February 25, 2013, 05:26:45 PM
That "Spongebob and Patrick get drunk and hung over from ice cream" sequence is still one of the funniest things the series has ever done. I love the movie.
I couldn't breath when I first saw that.
Quote from: Graywulf on February 27, 2013, 06:53:40 AM
I meant the movie had some problems, but I like it anyway. The show isn't the greatest, but it "just works for me". The movie isn't the greatest, but it "just works for me". I hope that explains it.
Gotcha. I can see what you mean, then.
Quote from: Graywulf on February 27, 2013, 06:53:40 AM
I couldn't breath when I first saw that.
I loved that too. I also love the part where they secretly add a swear word. To me, the funniest part of the movie is the entire scene in that bar with all the tough guys in it. :P
I'm not even much of a Spongebob fan and I thought the movie was pretty good. I'd like to own it on DVD eventually.
Ugly Americans is on par with most episodes of South Park.
Quote from: Graywulf on March 11, 2013, 04:23:33 PM
Ugly Americans is on par with most episodes of South Park.
Although I think
South Park at it's best completley outclasses an average
Ugly Americans, I love the show and do think it's episodes were stronger than most of the
South Park episodes it premiered besides. Has it been canceled? Because if so it's a crying shame.
While we're on the subject of Comedy Central shows, I have an unpopular opinion of my very own: I love
Drawn Together.
:anger:
Drawn Together is the best cartoon Comedy Central ever made that wasn't South Park or Dr. Katz.
What does that tell you about their history with animation?
It doesn't say much about their live action output either.
I liked Michael & Michael Have Issues. It's weird to see Jesse Eisenberg in that before he became Zuckerberg in The Social Network.
Quote from: Avaitor on March 12, 2013, 11:51:03 PM
Drawn Together is the best cartoon Comedy Central ever made that wasn't South Park or Dr. Katz.
What does that tell you about their history with animation?
It's poor, but at least the few cartoons they have made are better overall than their live action output, sans
The Daily Show and
The Colbert Report.
Eh, I like Key and Peele, and I was a huge fan of Upright Citizens' Brigade. I own the DVDs of seasons 1 and 2, but volume 3 never got released due to low sales. :imnothappy:
I love "Daria" but I cannot stand "Beavis and Butt-head"
Quote from: GregX on March 13, 2013, 12:33:44 PM
I love "Daria" but I cannot stand "Beavis and Butt-head"
From what I've heard, I don't think that's too unpopular of an opinion. Although I personally dont hate "Beavis and Butt-Head" myself.
I cant believe I'm saying this, but Ben 10: Omniverse is a good show. Not just a watchable show. Not just a show with occasionally good episodes. But an actually funny, well-made, fun to watch show.
:wth:
The only Ben 10 I ever watched was the one where they where they were kids. First series, I think. They lost me when they moved on to being teens. Just wasn't fun to me anymore.
I'm watching the second James Bond parody American Dad episode on Adult Swim right now, and I'm not understanding how people on TZ are praising this. That Tearjerker episode is one of the best in the series, but this crap doesn't even hold a candle to it.
I tried to get into the first Ben 10 show where they became teenagers, but the kids just lost any bit of personality they had when they grew up. Ben and Gwen were annoying as kids, sure, but at least they elicited some kind of emotion from me in the first show.
The newer stuff just bores me.
Are the writers still unintentionally making Ben and Gwen come across as lovers instead of cousins? If not, then whatever.
I could never get into Ben 10 (it's one of those shows that's too obviously and consciously geared toward preteen boys and is way too obviously and shamelessly toyetic for me to get into on any kind artistic level) but the concept was at least kind of interesting when Ben and Gwen were kids. Once they became teenagers, the franchise lost what little appeal it held for me. It became just another "teens save the world while juggling the trails of adolescence" show, and that's a genre I just don't dig. I kind of liked Gwen and her magic powers/heritage mythos, but that's about it.
I was never a Ben 10 fan, but the only series that I could watch even occasionally was the 1st series when Ben and Gwen were 10-year-old kids. Sure, both characters were kind of annoying with their constant bickering, but at least then they had personalities, unlike the bland cyphers that they became as teenagers. Ben 10: Alien Force was one of the most boring shows on TV. It was mostly forced shipper nonsense, and why did every single episode take place at night?
I haven't even bothered with Ben 10: Ultimate Alien. I was done with that as soon as I learned that Gwen was no longer a regular. She was one of the few things I liked about the Ben 10 franchise, and without her character, there was no balance. i understand that Ben 10 is franchise aimed primarily at boys who are at an age where "girls are icky", but I have zero interest in watching a Ben 10 show with 2 dudes as the protagonists.
Another unfortunate oddity came in how Ben seemed perfectly fine with committing murder as long as his victims were alien. While that would be understandable, if still badly thought out, in another series, the writers forgot that Ben is at least some type of alien for most of the show. Way to flush down that "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" dilemma, guys.
Hmmm, I assumed The Spongebob Movie was well loved.
Ben 10's series confuse me too much to even jump on anymore. There's the original where they're kids, Alien Force where they're teens, live action movies, Omniverse which... is a new continuity? And Sunday there was a marathon going on where every episode was in CGI. It just feels like they blew their load and I can't even tell what's what anymore.
Still, I'll watch an original series episode when it's on. I always liked the design of that white-haired witch character.
I always found Ben 10 to be rather dull. Man Of Action's work has always felt dull to me though Generator Rex was an interesting new take on their formula.
Their Avengers: EMH episodes were easily the weakest parts of the shows run, even over the oddly paced first few episodes.
And let's just forget about Ultimate Spider-Man, k thx
I think it would be cool if Man Of Action made a Deadpool cartoon for older audiences, if only so that Joe Kelly could write him again.
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 19, 2013, 01:02:52 PM
Hmmm, I assumed The Spongebob Movie was well loved.
It is. Or, at the very least, it's well "liked". However, I directed that opinion at this site, under the assumption that most people here weren't fans of it. Though it turned out I was wrong to an extent.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 19, 2013, 06:13:15 PM
I always found Ben 10 to be rather dull. Man Of Action's work has always felt dull to me though Generator Rex was an interesting new take on their formula.
Ahh, Generator Rex. I really wanted to get into that show but they love starting every episode with some adventure that acts like nothing happened with the story in the previous episode so I stopped trying to keep up.
Here's my unpopular opinion:
I think Ralph Bakshi was at his best when he was directing on children's animations. The stuff he did for Terrytoons (Deputy Dawg, Sad Cat, Mighty Heroes, etc.) and Famous Studios (Marvin Digs, Mini-Squirts, etc.) are, IMO, more enjoyable than his more famous adult stuff, like Fritz the Cat and Coonskin.
But that's just me.
Quote from: Mr. Big on March 20, 2013, 05:48:58 PM
Here's my unpopular opinion:
I think Ralph Bakshi was at his best when he was directing on children's animations. The stuff he did for Terrytoons (Deputy Dawg, Sad Cat, Mighty Heroes, etc.) and Famous Studios (Marvin Digs, Mini-Squirts, etc.) are, IMO, more enjoyable than his more famous adult stuff, like Fritz the Cat and Coonskin.
But that's just me.
The only Bakshi movie I've really seen all of American Pop, which I liked, but I have to agree. Most of his movies seem more "dark and gritty" then enjoyable.
I kind of liked Wizards (the concept behind it anyway) and what I saw of Mighty Mouse: The New Adventures, but yeah, overall Bakshi's 'super-adult' stuff never really did much for me.
BTW, does anyone remember Bakshi's Tattertown? It was a TV series Bakshi had in the works for at least a decade, but on the air it never made it past the pilot, which aired for a few years as a Christmas special on Nick at Nite. The show's art style recalled 1930's era cartoons. I thought Tattertown at least had the potential to be interesting.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on March 19, 2013, 06:03:28 PM
Ben 10's series confuse me too much to even jump on anymore. There's the original where they're kids, Alien Force where they're teens, live action movies, Omniverse which... is a new continuity? And Sunday there was a marathon going on where every episode was in CGI. It just feels like they blew their load and I can't even tell what's what anymore.
Omniverse is just a continuation of the series with a different art style. The
Ben 10 series all follow one linear continuity, although they love to contradict themselves a lot. There also has never been a CG series of
Ben 10. That was a movie based on the original series' timeframe.
Quote from: Goldstar on March 19, 2013, 08:44:29 AM
I was never a Ben 10 fan, but the only series that I could watch even occasionally was the 1st series when Ben and Gwen were 10-year-old kids. Sure, both characters were kind of annoying with their constant bickering, but at least then they had personalities, unlike the bland cyphers that they became as teenagers. Ben 10: Alien Force was one of the most boring shows on TV. It was mostly forced shipper nonsense, and why did every single episode take place at night?
See, here's the thing: I've always HATED the original
Ben 10 series. Even as a kid, the characters were so goddamn obnoxious I hated to sit through it (although there were episodes I thought were okay occaisonally).
Alien Force and
Ultimate Alien are, for the most part, garbage, with only maybe ten or so episodes between them that are at least watchable. So I've never really enjoyed this franchise before, which is why
Omniverse suprises me. I've actually liked what I've seen of the show. Ben is likeable now, and the show no longer feels the need to take itself so seriously. I actually enjoyed the two-part episode they aired last satruday more than the series finale of
Young Justice, which is why I made my origingla post in the first place. It's suprising.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on March 19, 2013, 06:03:28 PM
I haven't even bothered with Ben 10: Ultimate Alien. I was done with that as soon as I learned that Gwen was no longer a regular. She was one of the few things I liked about the Ben 10 franchise, and without her character, there was no balance. i understand that Ben 10 is franchise aimed primarily at boys who are at an age where "girls are icky", but I have zero interest in watching a Ben 10 show with 2 dudes as the protagonists.
Omniverse.
Ultimate Alien ended a year ago. Anyway, I thought Gwen was obnoxious in the original series, and shifted from being boring to a borderline jerkass in
Alien Force/Ultimate Alien. Rook, from what I've seen of him, is far more likeable and plays off Ben's character very well. Also, Gwen still shows up infrequently, so it's not like they wrote her out the series altogether.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on March 19, 2013, 01:15:33 AM
I'm watching the second James Bond parody American Dad episode on Adult Swim right now, and I'm not understanding how people on TZ are praising this. That Tearjerker episode is one of the best in the series, but this crap doesn't even hold a candle to it.
Yeah...I dont get the praise for the episode either. I know it's unpopular around here, but I LOVE
American Dad, and I have to say that the second Tearjerker episode was a slightly below average episode to me. I enjoyed it, got a couple of big laughs (Lewis + Roger is a golden pair for comedy), but it was not nearly as memorable or fatastic as the original episode, which is probably one of my favorite episodes from the show. I honestly can't believe Dudley over at Toonzone said it was the funniest
American Dad he's ever seen. No. Just...no.
Quote from: Cartoon X on March 20, 2013, 10:49:32 PM
I honestly can't believe Dudley over at Toonzone said it was the funniest American Dad he's ever seen. No. Just...no.
Yeah, I can't see what this episode does comedy-wise that surpasses anything the series has done before (and better), so I really don't know where he's coming from.
For me, it's that while I don't really like the Bond movies, I still appreciate the parodies of them throughout media. I don't know all the plots of every Bond movie, but going after a maniacal pimp with most of the episode taking place in the ghetto just doesn't feel like a secret agent movie to me. At least Roger's evil plan in the original was funny, with the movies and the celeb robots, and had a clever plan against it with the celebrity babies. The whole "melt the polar ice caps with a million hairdryers for lake front property" wasn't even stupid in a funny way. It's just plain stupid.
And I never said that third thing you quoted, dude. ;)
Quote from: Nel_Annette on March 20, 2013, 11:55:25 PM
And I never said that third thing you quoted, dude. ;)
Oops. :P How did that happen? :sweat:
Actually, I'm pretty sure most of the people here like American Dad. At least, I do. It's Family Guy and Cleveland Show that I can't stand.
Going back to Bakshi...
I maintain that the Mini-Squirts is one of the best cartoons to be made by Famous Studios. Which is remarkable, because it's one of the LAST cartoons they did before it was closed down.
You can watch it below.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xn2a5k_mini-squirts_fun
Quote from: Foggle on March 21, 2013, 12:04:54 AM
Actually, I'm pretty sure most of the people here like American Dad. At least, I do. It's Family Guy and Cleveland Show that I can't stand.
Yeah, I don't like the characters, aside from Steve and his friends, but American Dad! is the lesser of three evils.
Quote from: Avaitor on March 21, 2013, 12:23:25 PM
Quote from: Foggle on March 21, 2013, 12:04:54 AM
Actually, I'm pretty sure most of the people here like American Dad. At least, I do. It's Family Guy and Cleveland Show that I can't stand.
Yeah, I don't like the characters, aside from Steve and his friends, but American Dad! is the lesser of three evils.
Same.
Ironically the episode I think is the best is the one centered entirely around Steve and his friends that has one token appearance of the family.
Didn't see the 2nd Bond episode. American Dad is okay, but it's a bit dull sometimes, especially the most recent seasons. I like it and Family Guy. I don't hate The Cleveland Show, but I found it more inconsistent than the other two. I watched only the most recent episode of it, and didn't laugh once.
It is highly likely that The Cleveland Show will end this year. I don't think anyone will miss it.
Really? Has it been doing that bad?
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 21, 2013, 08:52:19 PM
Really? Has it been doing that bad?
Not that poorly I guess, but it is doing poorer than the other AD shows, and they are hitting syndication numbers. Looks like Fox has decided to give Bob's Burgers and American Dad! their own permanent slots now in lieu of Cleveland.
And good riddance. Both are infinitely better than the Cleveland Show, which has barely even gotten 5 laughs out of me throughout its entire run. And great job destroying Cleveland's character and basically making him Peter-lite in the process.
Good. Cleveland Show is such a terrible show, and it doesn't even have anything to do with it being another MacFarlane show, it's just fucking boring. There's no charm, no humor, and none of the characters are in any way interesting. It is a show that you put on to try and cure your insomnia. I honestly have no idea how it lasted this long.
Can't say that I'll miss The Cleveland Show. I only watched the 1st couple of episodes and it basically struck me as being a black Family Guy Lite. Animation Domination has had to juggle 5 shows in 4 slots for years, so I guess that 1 of them had to go, and FOX chose Cleveland. I can't fault Mike Henry and Seth MacFarlane for trying to have an animated series with a mostly ethnic main cast, but the problem was the Cleveland offered too little contrast from FG to really stand out or be very interesting.
Honestly, who even likes The Cleveland Show? Even the hardcore MacFarlane fanatics think it's ass.
Awww, Young Justice already had it's series finale...
Quote from: Avaitor on October 03, 2012, 06:11:55 PM
Watch me make a better top 10 comic book adaptations list than this.
10- Batman Beyond
9- The Tick
8- Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
7- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2K3)
6- Superman: The Animated Series
5- DuckTales
4- Justice League (including Unlimited)
3- Batman: The Brave & the Bold
2- Batman: The Animated Series
1- The Spectacular Spider-Man
Not counting manga or comic strips. Comments?
Certain other discussion makes me want to bring this back, just cause.
I find myself agreeing.
Does Batman Beyond even count as a comic book adaptation, though? Its more like a spin-off sequel to BTAS, but I suppose you could say that its technically still an adaptation since it features Bruce Wayne in it.
It has Bruce Wayne, it has Barbara Gordon, and it has some of Batman's rogue gallery left in it. I'm counting it.
Eww at TMNT 2K3 above Batman Beyond.
I might get flack for this but...I liked Hotel Transylvania. Yes it wasn't very clever, original and definitely not some of Tartokovski's (sp?) best material (it doesn't help that the film wasn't originally his creation and switched from director to director). I'm pretty sure the world is getting sick of seeing, along with Jim Carrey and Will Ferrel, Adam Sandler. So why do I like it? It has in my opinion great animation and some laughs for me here and there. I also liked seeing for once no real villain, the closest being Quasimodo who's more or less an eccentric cook with violent outbursts. I like villains and everything, don't get me wrong, but it seems like almost every animated film pushes the need for a villain, which can either lead to them being awesome (Gaston) or very lame (Clayton). For once, at least for me, it was refreshing to see a change of pace.
Quote from: SSJ Jake on May 07, 2013, 04:03:40 PM
I might get flack for this but...I liked Hotel Transylvania. Yes it wasn't very clever, original and definitely not some of Tartokovski's (sp?) best material (it doesn't help that the film wasn't originally his creation and switched from director to director). I'm pretty sure the world is getting sick of seeing, along with Jim Carrey and Will Ferrel, Adam Sandler. So why do I like it? It has in my opinion great animation and some laughs for me here and there. I also liked seeing for once no real villain, the closest being Quasimodo who's more or less an eccentric cook with violent outbursts. I like villains and everything, don't get me wrong, but it seems like almost every animated film pushes the need for a villain, which can either lead to them being awesome (Gaston) or very lame (Clayton). For once, at least for me, it was refreshing to see a change of pace.
I haven't got around to seeing
Hotel Transylvania yet, but I agree with the part that I bolded. This is also what I've said about comedy cartoons like
Littlest Pet Shop on The Hub, and how no real villain would have been an improvement over The Biskitt Twins, who are pretty lame antagonists (IMO), since they have no reason to actually hate Blythe. Their sole reason for disliking Blythe is because she doesn't worship them, but a lot of other characters on the show don't worship the Biskitts, and they don't antagonize them, so that's a pretty lame villain motivation, overall.
A well written show doesn't need to have regular or recurring antagonists, which is not to say that a well written antagonist who has an actual reason to stand against the hero(es) isn't an awesome thing to behold.
Pretty much everyone who's seen Hotel Transylvania, whether they like it or not, seem to agree that the animation is very creative, in both a classic and contemporary way. I haven't seen it and honestly don't have much interest, but it doesn't sound that bad.
I don't think The Flintstones gets enough love here. I think just about everytime I watch some of an episode these days, I end up loving the series a little bit more. It's funny because as a kid I didn't like it that much which makes The Flintstones probably the only cartoon I didn't really like as a child but do as an adult. I think I was pretty good at gauging cartoons' quality as a kid. Anyway, I think The Flintstones is the one HB classic that shouldn't be called overrated.
I would never call The Flintstones overrated; it was a trailblazing series which helped make Hanna-Barbera Studios a household name and managed to stay in the public eye in some way, shape or from to this very day, so there's no denying its' success or place within the animation lexicon. Having said that, while I didn't and still don't hate The Flintstones, the franchise was just never a favorite of mine. Again, don't hate it, but there are at least a dozen other cartoons I'd place above it in my personal tops list. Once one gets past the basics: that Flintstones was a) The Honeymooners in animated form and b) illustrated radio, there wasn't that much that appealed to me. Part of my indifference to The Flintstones is that I could never get into the basic "modern Stone Age family" shtick: my feeling is that if you're modernize things that much, then you might as well set the show in the present day. If I tune in to a show about cavemen, I want to see them living and acting like, well, cavemen: with tribes, rituals, discovering stuff for the first time, hunting, gathering, evading predators, etc. The rock puns and use of animals in place of tools and appliances was good for a mild chuckle, but it kind of got old again and again. Not to mention the way they constantly had Christmas themed episodes and specials which took place millions of years before the birth of Jesus. :??: Something like, say, The Croods is probably closer to my ideal caveman comedy.
The show in its' prime was pretty well-written, and as a kid it was an amusing way to kill a half-hour without much complaint, but the repetitive nature of the situations and the incongruity of the basic premise was just hard for me to get behind, I guess.
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 15, 2011, 11:36:56 AM
Foster is one of the most absolute boring cartoons ever made. Pretty much started the dark age of CN for me.
You know, we used to argue about this on tv.com a bit, but I agree with you now to an extent. I can't stand the show anymore.
[/quote] I fucked up the quote (I was talking to Avaitor here) but anyway, I watched a bit of an episode of Foster with my baby brother a few months ago and got a good few laughs out of it. That slightly upgrades my opinion of the show from 'Pac-Man ghost runs around house while flailing arms' :)
Heh, do you remember what that episode is about?
I THINK it was the episode where the main kid tries to be cool. Heck, I might rewatch that one just to be sure.
Man, while watching some of Rocko again, I think I'll forever be stuck with the conclusion that SpongeBob is a poor man's RML. Better than most, but still wholly inferior.
I still contend that Rocko's Modern Life is THE single greatest thing Nickelodeon has put on the air, ever.
Still think SpongeBob is better. :humhumhum:
Quote from: talonmalon333 on May 23, 2013, 12:26:53 AM
Still think SpongeBob is better. :humhumhum:
Now, that's an unpopular opinion.
Pre-movie Spongebob maybe.
Maybe.
I'd probably give Rocko the edge if I watched it today. I used to be kind of big on Spongebob.
Seasons 1-3 of SpongeBob are, in my opinion, completely unrivaled by anything else Nickelodeon has ever done.
As for the episodes since then, there are some gems. But as a whole, I think they've mostly been just "good enough".
Quote from: talonmalon333 on May 23, 2013, 12:56:16 AM
Seasons 1-3 of SpongeBob are, in my opinion, completely unrivaled by anything else Nickelodeon has ever done.
As for the episodes since then, there are some gems. But as a whole, I think they've mostly been just "good enough".
That has to be an unpopular opinion on the quality of post movie SB. I'm sure everyone here thinks those epiodes are flat out shit.
I like pre-movie Spongebob more than any other Nicktoon, but I won't say it's necessarily the best. That probably is Rocko's Modern Life.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on May 23, 2013, 12:56:16 AM
As for the episodes since then, there are some gems. But as a whole, I think they've mostly been just "good enough".
I think "Mrs. Puff, You're Fired" is on the same level as the first 3 seasons.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on May 23, 2013, 12:56:16 AM
Seasons 1-3 of SpongeBob are, in my opinion, completely unrivaled by anything else Nickelodeon has ever done.
Watch Rocko again.
Hmm...I'm not sure which show I would give the edge to at the moment because I would like to rewatch both of them (but only with seasons 1-5 of Spongebob, not it's complete run though) in order to properly assess which is better.
However, at the moment I can recall much, much more memorable Spongebob moments and episodes than I can Rocko, so there's that. :P
Eh, I'll just come out and say that I don't like SpongeBob at all. Never have. Never will.
But you probably know that anyway.
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 23, 2013, 01:43:03 AMThat has to be an unpopular opinion on the quality of post movie SB. I'm sure everyone here thinks those epiodes are flat out shit.
True. I just don't see anything outright bad about them.
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on May 23, 2013, 07:11:07 AM
I think "Mrs. Puff, You're Fired" is on the same level as the first 3 seasons.
I also think Krusty Towers is close to their level.
Quote from: Avaitor on May 23, 2013, 09:27:04 AM
Watch Rocko again.
Don't worry, I have. Still don't think it's as good. :D
Quote from: Avaitor on May 23, 2013, 10:55:03 AM
Eh, I'll just come out and say that I don't like SpongeBob at all. Never have. Never will.
But you probably know that anyway.
First you don't like Tails or Yoshi and now this? You have no soul.
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 23, 2013, 12:21:14 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on May 23, 2013, 10:55:03 AM
Eh, I'll just come out and say that I don't like SpongeBob at all. Never have. Never will.
But you probably know that anyway.
First you don't like Tails or Yoshi and now this? You have no soul.
Hey I play as Tails on S3&K. Sometimes.
And Yoshi's Island is incredible.
Quote from: Avaitor on May 23, 2013, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 23, 2013, 12:21:14 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on May 23, 2013, 10:55:03 AM
Eh, I'll just come out and say that I don't like SpongeBob at all. Never have. Never will.
But you probably know that anyway.
First you don't like Tails or Yoshi and now this? You have no soul.
Hey I play as Tails on S3&K. Sometimes.
And Yoshi's Island is incredible.
Well at least you don't think the Rurouni Kenshin anime is uninteresting anymore. That opinion made you the borest man in life.
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 23, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on May 23, 2013, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 23, 2013, 12:21:14 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on May 23, 2013, 10:55:03 AM
Eh, I'll just come out and say that I don't like SpongeBob at all. Never have. Never will.
But you probably know that anyway.
First you don't like Tails or Yoshi and now this? You have no soul.
Hey I play as Tails on S3&K. Sometimes.
And Yoshi's Island is incredible.
Well at least you don't think the Rurouni Kenshin anime is uninteresting anymore. That opinion made you the borest man in life.
The manga's better, though.
Quote from: Avaitor on May 23, 2013, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 23, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on May 23, 2013, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 23, 2013, 12:21:14 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on May 23, 2013, 10:55:03 AM
Eh, I'll just come out and say that I don't like SpongeBob at all. Never have. Never will.
But you probably know that anyway.
First you don't like Tails or Yoshi and now this? You have no soul.
Hey I play as Tails on S3&K. Sometimes.
And Yoshi's Island is incredible.
Well at least you don't think the Rurouni Kenshin anime is uninteresting anymore. That opinion made you the borest man in life.
The manga's better, though.
I can confirm this.
I've been watching a lot of Johnny Bravo with my baby brother and have been liking it mire and more. Courage>Johnny Bravo. Johnny himself probably has more personality than any other Cartoon Cartoon character not named Ed but like I said before, the show doesn't know what it wants to be. Also, Bunny and Pops>Suzy and Carl. I don't care for the younger side characters in Bravo. Rewatching Rashomoron this week and hearing Suzy and Carl's Johnny impersonation was hilarious though.
This was at one point my favorite Cartoon Cartoon. After having re-watched most of the series last year, I have to admit that it hasn't aged as gracefully as I had hoped. That by no means indicates that I think its bad, because I don't. Its a lot of silly, dumb humor (and wouldn't you know, Seth MacFarlane used to be a writer for this show), but the better seasons still manage to entertain the hell out of me. That said, now that I've grown older, I have to admit that I've gained more of an appreciation for series like Courage the Cowardly Dog, The Powerpuff Girls, and Ed, Edd, n' Eddy, which I enjoyed just fine as a kid, but didn't have quite the same appeal to me then as they do now.
Johnny Bravo provided me with a line I've been quoting since my preteen days for whenever anything goes wrong: "Curse you, Benjamin Franklin! You knew this would happen!" ;D
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 30, 2013, 10:50:30 PM
This was at one point my favorite Cartoon Cartoon. After having re-watched most of the series last year, I have to admit that it hasn't aged as gracefully as I had hoped. That by no means indicates that I think its bad, because I don't. Its a lot of silly, dumb humor (and wouldn't you know, Seth MacFarlane used to be a writer for this show), but the better seasons still manage to entertain the hell out of me. That said, now that I've grown older, I have to admit that I've gained more of an appreciation for series like Courage the Cowardly Dog, The Powerpuff Girls, and Ed, Edd, n' Eddy, which I enjoyed just fine as a kid, but didn't have quite the same appeal to me then as they do now.
Funny enough, for some reason I was barely into JB. Mostly because I missed a lot of episodes for some reason, but I did like it.
For me, the episodes I liked as a kid, are still as funny to me, if not funny. It's just that the randomness and lack of vision on the show wears on me. And of course Suzy and Carl bore me.
Johnny Bravo is hit or miss for me nowadays. There are lots of awesome episodes like "Bravo Dooby Doo" and "Johnny Bravo meets Adam West," but there are also meh episodes like...quite a bit of the fourth season. :sweat:
I need to go back to my Cartoon Cartoon series and do a full rewatch and analysis of the post-season 1 episodes. I've only seen bits and pieces of that part of the show in recent years, but not everything.
The fundamental flaw of Johnny Bravo is that it's always had the thinnest premise of all the original Cartoon-Cartoons. Compare the basic premises of Dexter, PPG, Cow and Chicken, Courage and Ed, Edd 'n' Eddy and compare them to that of Johnny Bravo--a buff blond buffoon with an Elvis-soundalike voice tries and fails to pick up women--and you see where the problem lies.
That's why while I know that the 2nd and 3rd season JBs by Kirk Tingblad and Russel Calabrese get a lot of flack from fans (even show creator Van Partible apparently wasn't a fan of them), I actually think they're pretty good; Tingblad and Calabrese at least deserve some credit for trying to take the show beyond its' decidedly limited foundations.
Carl didn't bore me, personally; I thought he made a decent foil for Johnny, although Pops was my favorite character on that show. Someone else elaborated on this already, but Pops had this dry sort of humor that you rarely see on kids' shows.
Yeah, I liked the Carl and Pops additions to the show since they actually added more possibilities for plots beyond how dull the first and last seasons could get at times. Johnny wasn't enough to carry the full show by himself- he needed a foil.
That's very true. Johnny is fun, but the best episodes gives him someone just as fun to mess around with, mainly celebs or some of the supporting cast. When he's just with a random chick or weird talking animal, that's where the show's cracks begin to appear.
I never understood how anybody could have a preference for the first and last seasons (especially the last season, which was awful). Half of the time, this era of the show felt like nothing but a weird excuse to throw in some celebrity cameos... and while the first season did definitely have some strong episodes (Scooby, Adam West, the Twilight Zone parodies), it was still hit or miss. The Jungle Boy stuff was pretty bad, IMO.
Seasons 2-3 were great, though. Pops and Carl were nice additions, the writing was better... overall it was just far more consistent, and a lot funnier if you ask me. Really wish we could get these on DVD someday.
Ah. Here's an unpopular opinion that I wanted to post earlier, but completely forgot.
I like the Simpsons Movie.
I don't think too many of us hate it, even if the general consensus is that we gave it a little more credit than it deserved when it came out.
The movie is still better than the lion's share of episodes made in the past 10+ years, though.
I still say they should have stayed in Springfield in the film.
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 31, 2013, 10:25:31 PM
I still say they should have stayed in Springfield in the film.
I remember liking the Alaska part.
Personally, I find myself liking The Simpsons Movie less and less each time I watch it. It keeps annoying me how Bart is completely out of character, how the town and residents of Springfield were underused in favor of Alaska for random reasoning. Homer was alright despite still being a jerkass though, so his plot was pretty good. Though, I'm probably not one of the harshest critics of The Simpsons nowadays anyway, since there are enough episodes that I enjoy per season for me to keep watching new episodes as they come out.
I like the movie more than any episode released in years now.
Eh, there are a couple of nice episodes that get made once in a while. This season I particularly enjoyed "A Tree Grows in Springfield," "The Day the Earth Stood Cool," "Dark Knight Court," "Pulprit Friction," "The Saga of Carl," and "Dangers on a Train." I'm not saying there aren't shitty episodes being made. "Adventures in Baby Getting," "The Changing of the Guradian," and "The Fabulous Faker Boy" were particularly awful and "Love is a Many-Splintered Thing" was so fucking terrible I couldn't sit through it. But overall the show isn't bad enough that I avoid watching it when it's on or a new episode that sounds interesting. There's plenty of episodes between seasons 11 and 24 that I've disliked, more than I've liked, but I still find the episodes okay to view at least once even if they aren't very good, barring the really awful ones of course.
Here's an unpopular opinion.
I consider Brave to be completely middle tier for Pixar. Like, as middle as possible.
That opinion is unpopular? :-\
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 11, 2013, 07:03:51 PM
That opinion is unpopular? :-\
Quite a lot of people (myself included) think it's one the weakest Pixar film besides the Car movies.
I liked it more than both Cars, Ratatouille, Finding Nemo, and A Bug's Life, personally.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 11, 2013, 07:03:51 PM
That opinion is unpopular? :-\
ShadowGentleman sums it up. Most people seem to think it's very low tier Pixar, whereas I find it to fall in the middle.
I've seen a lot of people who consider it middle tier, as well.
The general consensus is that it isn't much higher up in Pixar's canon.
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 11, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
The rest... is silence.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 11, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
:char:
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 02:58:36 AM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 12, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 11, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
:char:
It's not my fault that you like a shitty cartoon :sly:
Can you explain why this show is supposedly "shitty", good sir?
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 13, 2013, 03:35:41 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 02:58:36 AM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 12, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 11, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
:char:
It's not my fault that you like a shitty cartoon :sly:
Can you explain why this show is supposedly "shitty", good sir?
It's factually shitty because it has characters that are plagued with bad dialogue like it's version of Doc Ock.
I feel left out because I've never seen a full episode of Spectacular Spider-Man. However, I can factually say that if one wants to view a truly shitty take on Spidey, look no further than Ultimate Spider-Man. They don't come any shittier than that. USM makes Teen Titans GO! look like I, Claudius.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 04:09:37 AM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 13, 2013, 03:35:41 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 02:58:36 AM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 12, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 11, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
:char:
It's not my fault that you like a shitty cartoon :sly:
Can you explain why this show is supposedly "shitty", good sir?
It's factually shitty because it has characters that are plagued with bad dialogue like it's version of Doc Ock.
And what "bad" dialogue would you be referring to?
Quote from: Silverstar on June 13, 2013, 09:41:33 AM
I feel left out because I've never seen a full episode of Spectacular Spider-Man. However, I can factually say that if one wants to view a truly shitty take on Spidey, look no further than Ultimate Spider-Man. They don't come any shittier than that. USM makes Teen Titans GO! look like I, Claudius.
I don't think you could make a worse superhero show then USM if you tried.
I thought you liked
Teen Titans Go!?
Anyway, some unpopular opinions:
- Daria is the best show MTV has ever made. Beavis and Butthead doesn't even come close, sorry.
- Star Wars: The Clone Wars went on too long and had some boring as fuck episodes, but there are enough good ones in it to consider it a fairly good action show. I like better than any of the movies, to be honest, although I've never been a fan of this franchise even when I was younger, so YMMV.
- Teen Titans Go! is kinda dull. :??:
- The only Teen Titans story arc that was very good in my opinion was the Trigon arc. All the other ones were either rushed like the Terra arc, or otherwise hindered by shabby plotting like the Brother Blood and Brotherhood of Evil arcs.
- I like Superman: The Animated Series slightly more than Batman: The Animated Series, mainly because I find the former to be a little more consistent in quality and have more enjoyable supporting characters. I still really like BTAS obviously, but I honestly rarely find Batman and Robin themselves interesting aside from a couple episodes like Robin's Reckoning and I Am the Night, so really it comes down to the villain being really interesting, whereas I find Superman and his supporting cast a lot more fun so I get more mileage out of them rather than just the villain on a per episode basis. That said, I like Gargoyles better than either of them. :P
- I find it hard to watch a lot of comedy cartoons from my childhood these days. A lot of them are just too...loud. Some I can sit through fine and love, like Rocko's Modern Life and early SpongeBob, but I can only watch one or two Animaniacs or Cow and Chicken's at a time before I just have to stop and watch something else.
- The Amazing World of Gumball and Regular Show are neck in neck as the best children's comedy cartoons on today. I like Gravity Falls and all, but I find those two much funnier more consistently, even if Regular Show's bro humor can be a little grating sometimes.
- Ed, Edd, n' Eddy is the best cartoon cartoon. I love Dexter's Laboratory, The Powerpuff Girls, Sheep in the Big City, and The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, but E,E, & E beats them in consistency and the freshness of it's humor.
- Johnny Bravo's last season was flat-out awful. Almost as bad as the last season of Dexter's Laboratory. Almost.
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 13, 2013, 11:12:01 AM- Johnny Bravo's last season was flat-out awful. Almost as bad as the last season of Dexter's Laboratory. Almost.
I'm not so sure if this really unpopular. I mean, those seasons actively killed said shows. :sweat:
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 02:58:36 AM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 12, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 11, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
:char:
It's not my fault that you like a shitty cartoon :sly:
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.memegenerator.net%2Finstances%2F400x%2F27457761.jpg&hash=1996aebc23310d00cb12153cbea8d32577f8e125)
Quote from: Cartoon XI thought you liked Teen Titans Go!?
I
do like it, but I harbor no delusions; I'll be the first to admit TTGO! isn't Shakespeare. It's goofy and silly and juvenile, but that can still be entertaining if done properly and professionally. Warner Bros. Animation has always done silly quite well.
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 13, 2013, 11:12:01 AM
- I like Superman: The Animated Series slightly more than Batman: The Animated Series, mainly because I find the former to be a little more consistent in quality and have more enjoyable supporting characters. I still really like BTAS obviously, but I honestly rarely find Batman and Robin themselves interesting aside from a couple episodes like Robin's Reckoning and I Am the Night, so really it comes down to the villain being really interesting, whereas I find Superman and his supporting cast a lot more fun so I get more mileage out of them rather than just the villain on a per episode basis. That said, I like Gargoyles better than either of them. :P
While I can't say I like it more than BTAS, I have a soft spot for STAS and it's in my top ten for sure. Maybe it's just becasue Supes is my favorite superhero, but I agree with it being more consistent.
Quote- I find it hard to watch a lot of comedy cartoons from my childhood these days. A lot of them are just too...loud. Some I can sit through fine and love, like Rocko's Modern Life and early SpongeBob, but I can only watch one or two Animaniacs or Cow and Chicken's at a time before I just have to stop and watch something else.
Which shows are you referring too, because I don't think any of the shows I watched as a kid that actually hold up are
too loud.
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 11:09:36 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 04:09:37 AM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 13, 2013, 03:35:41 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 02:58:36 AM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 12, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 11, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
:char:
It's not my fault that you like a shitty cartoon :sly:
Can you explain why this show is supposedly "shitty", good sir?
It's factually shitty because it has characters that are plagued with bad dialogue like it's version of Doc Ock.
And what "bad" dialogue would you be referring to?
Just watch his first episode and take your pick.
Quote from: GregX on June 13, 2013, 11:49:38 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 02:58:36 AM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 12, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 11, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
:char:
It's not my fault that you like a shitty cartoon :sly:
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.memegenerator.net%2Finstances%2F400x%2F27457761.jpg&hash=1996aebc23310d00cb12153cbea8d32577f8e125)
Quiet, stranger. Real members are speaking ;)
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 13, 2013, 11:18:21 AM
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 13, 2013, 11:12:01 AM- Johnny Bravo's last season was flat-out awful. Almost as bad as the last season of Dexter's Laboratory. Almost.
I'm not so sure if this really unpopular. I mean, those seasons actively killed said shows. :sweat:
I think I watched two of those episodes a day ago. It's the ones where Van Partible is back on the show, right? The episode sections about some Babysitter S'urprise movie shit and the one where Johnny is at home with Mother Goose characters are so incomprehensible and...bad. I found myself confusing and dosing off at the same time. I did like the El Guapo whatsitsname episode a bit though. It seemed like an earlier season episode.
Also Cartoon X, Animaniacs and Cow & Chicken bored me as a kid.
Yeah, season 5 returns to the style of the first season because he came back.
IMO, it was a bad idea.
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 12:16:21 PM
Which shows are you referring too, because I don't think any of the shows I watched as a kid that actually hold up are too loud.
More or less shows shows that nowadays I find the voice acting to be a little too quirky or the music too loud and repetitive, or where there is more yelling than I'd like to see. More or less I prefer shows with a kind of "relaxed" energy. I'm not exactly sure how to describe that, but I guess it's just how the dialogue and music sound to my ears makes a difference in how much I enjoy watching something. I like wacky shows mind you, and some of them I would say are loud. My favorite show ever is
Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, which is one of the wackiest and over the top shows ever made. It's just somehow I kinda get turned off in some cases when a show has a comedic energy that is just too...I dunno, fast and in your face? Like I said, I myself find it hard to describe exactly what is preventing me from really getting into a couple of shows from my childhood, aside from that kind of comedic energy I see in them that doesn't really do much for me anymore. :??:
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 13, 2013, 12:22:45 PM
Yeah, season 5 returns to the style of the first season because he came back.
IMO, it was a bad idea.
It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so random.
I used to like the last season as much as the rest of the show, but the only episode that I've seen in recent years is the Hollywood one, and if the rest of those episodes are like that, then yeah, I can see how it was a bad season.
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 13, 2013, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 12:16:21 PM
Which shows are you referring too, because I don't think any of the shows I watched as a kid that actually hold up are too loud.
More or less shows shows that nowadays I find the voice acting to be a little too quirky or the music too loud and repetitive, or where there is more yelling than I'd like to see. More or less I prefer shows with a kind of "relaxed" energy. I'm not exactly sure how to describe that, but I guess it's just how the dialogue and music sound to my ears makes a difference in how much I enjoy watching something. I like wacky shows mind you, and some of them I would say are loud. My favorite show ever is Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, which is one of the wackiest and over the top shows ever made. It's just somehow I kinda get turned off in some cases when a show has a comedic energy that is just too...I dunno, fast and in your face? Like I said, I myself find it hard to describe exactly what is preventing me from really getting into a couple of shows from my childhood, aside from that kind of comedic energy I see in them that doesn't really do much for me anymore. :??:
Oh, I totally see where your coming from. I prefer "relaxed" shows as well.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 12:17:44 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 11:09:36 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 04:09:37 AM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 13, 2013, 03:35:41 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 02:58:36 AM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 12, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 11, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
:char:
It's not my fault that you like a shitty cartoon :sly:
Can you explain why this show is supposedly "shitty", good sir?
It's factually shitty because it has characters that are plagued with bad dialogue like it's version of Doc Ock.
And what "bad" dialogue would you be referring to?
Just watch his first episode and take your pick.
Not liking the dialogue of a single character doesn't make a show shit.
I would like to say that you mustn't feed the village idiot outside of visiting hours.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 13, 2013, 01:18:00 PM
I would like to say that you mustn't feed the village idiot outside of visiting hours.
I concur. This has become tiresome.
Kevin's not even in this episode, Eddy.
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:13:39 PM
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 13, 2013, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 12:16:21 PM
Which shows are you referring too, because I don't think any of the shows I watched as a kid that actually hold up are too loud.
More or less shows shows that nowadays I find the voice acting to be a little too quirky or the music too loud and repetitive, or where there is more yelling than I'd like to see. More or less I prefer shows with a kind of "relaxed" energy. I'm not exactly sure how to describe that, but I guess it's just how the dialogue and music sound to my ears makes a difference in how much I enjoy watching something. I like wacky shows mind you, and some of them I would say are loud. My favorite show ever is Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, which is one of the wackiest and over the top shows ever made. It's just somehow I kinda get turned off in some cases when a show has a comedic energy that is just too...I dunno, fast and in your face? Like I said, I myself find it hard to describe exactly what is preventing me from really getting into a couple of shows from my childhood, aside from that kind of comedic energy I see in them that doesn't really do much for me anymore. :??:
Oh, I totally see where your coming from. I prefer "relaxed" shows as well.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 12:17:44 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 11:09:36 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 04:09:37 AM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 13, 2013, 03:35:41 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 02:58:36 AM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 12, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 11, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
New/MTV.s Spider-Man is better than Spectacular.
:char:
It's not my fault that you like a shitty cartoon :sly:
Can you explain why this show is supposedly "shitty", good sir?
It's factually shitty because it has characters that are plagued with bad dialogue like it's version of Doc Ock.
And what "bad" dialogue would you be referring to?
Just watch his first episode and take your pick.
Not liking the dialogue of a single character doesn't make a show shit.
I know. You went away from talking about the show in it's entirety when you asked me about my opinion on Doc Ock. Pay attention.
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:24:41 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 13, 2013, 01:18:00 PM
I would like to say that you mustn't feed the village idiot outside of visiting hours.
I concur. This has become tiresome.
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Yes, an example, not the only reason.Thanks for reprocessing my point. :sly:
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Yes, an example, not the only reason.Thanks for reprocessing my point. :sly:
Since we've discussed one reason, what are the others?
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Yes, an example, not the only reason.Thanks for reprocessing my point. :sly:
Since we've discussed one reason, what are the others?
The characters and art direction also sucks
Batman Beyond is the best Spider-Man animated series.
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Yes, an example, not the only reason.Thanks for reprocessing my point. :sly:
Since we've discussed one reason, what are the others?
The characters and art direction also sucks
Ok, that's something I can understand. I'm not really found of the art style myself, but it did grow on me a bit. But the writing is the most important element, and that was top notch.
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Yes, an example, not the only reason.Thanks for reprocessing my point. :sly:
Since we've discussed one reason, what are the others?
The characters and art direction also sucks
Ok, that's something I can understand. I'm not really found of the art style myself, but it did grow on me a bit. But the writing is the most important element, and that was top notch.
It is. Even though I'll never give Transformers Animated a chance because it's art direction hurts my eyes. So...bad...
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Yes, an example, not the only reason.Thanks for reprocessing my point. :sly:
Since we've discussed one reason, what are the others?
The characters and art direction also sucks
Ok, that's something I can understand. I'm not really found of the art style myself, but it did grow on me a bit. But the writing is the most important element, and that was top notch.
It is. Even though I'll never give Transformers Animated a chance because it's art direction hurts my eyes. So...bad...
I was a fan of TA's writing, but the art style was not easy on the eyes, I'll grant you.
Quote from: Avaitor on June 13, 2013, 02:24:58 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Yes, an example, not the only reason.Thanks for reprocessing my point. :sly:
Since we've discussed one reason, what are the others?
The characters and art direction also sucks
Ok, that's something I can understand. I'm not really found of the art style myself, but it did grow on me a bit. But the writing is the most important element, and that was top notch.
It is. Even though I'll never give Transformers Animated a chance because it's art direction hurts my eyes. So...bad...
I was a fan of TA's writing, but the art style was not easy on the eyes, I'll grant you.
Though Transformers and good art design are seldom a common mix.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 13, 2013, 02:31:27 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on June 13, 2013, 02:24:58 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Yes, an example, not the only reason.Thanks for reprocessing my point. :sly:
Since we've discussed one reason, what are the others?
The characters and art direction also sucks
Ok, that's something I can understand. I'm not really found of the art style myself, but it did grow on me a bit. But the writing is the most important element, and that was top notch.
It is. Even though I'll never give Transformers Animated a chance because it's art direction hurts my eyes. So...bad...
I was a fan of TA's writing, but the art style was not easy on the eyes, I'll grant you.
Though Transformers and good art design are seldom a common mix.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftfwiki.net%2Fmediawiki%2Fimages2%2Fd%2Fd3%2FDevastator-dullsurprise.jpg&hash=c5719a943d92d87a96e748289de1cfcce200e631)
Quote from: Avaitor on June 13, 2013, 02:24:58 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Yes, an example, not the only reason.Thanks for reprocessing my point. :sly:
Since we've discussed one reason, what are the others?
The characters and art direction also sucks
Ok, that's something I can understand. I'm not really found of the art style myself, but it did grow on me a bit. But the writing is the most important element, and that was top notch.
It is. Even though I'll never give Transformers Animated a chance because it's art direction hurts my eyes. So...bad...
I was a fan of TA's writing, but the art style was not easy on the eyes, I'll grant you.
Yeah, I heard you speak highly of the show which is why I mentioned it. I just cannot get into a show where the characters look like...that
Quote from: Rynnec on June 13, 2013, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on June 13, 2013, 02:31:27 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on June 13, 2013, 02:24:58 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on June 13, 2013, 01:39:53 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 13, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
Yeah, we don't want to feed you anymore. Your lack of focus has made it not worth it.
You said one reason you didn't like the show is because bad dialogue and cited Doc Ock as an example. I asked you which lines you where referring to, and you said "watch his first episode and take your pick". I was simply asking questions about a point you made. But whatever. :bleh:
Yes, an example, not the only reason.Thanks for reprocessing my point. :sly:
Since we've discussed one reason, what are the others?
The characters and art direction also sucks
Ok, that's something I can understand. I'm not really found of the art style myself, but it did grow on me a bit. But the writing is the most important element, and that was top notch.
It is. Even though I'll never give Transformers Animated a chance because it's art direction hurts my eyes. So...bad...
I was a fan of TA's writing, but the art style was not easy on the eyes, I'll grant you.
Though Transformers and good art design are seldom a common mix.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftfwiki.net%2Fmediawiki%2Fimages2%2Fd%2Fd3%2FDevastator-dullsurprise.jpg&hash=c5719a943d92d87a96e748289de1cfcce200e631)
Now that has to be a smiley.
I still like The Looney Tunes Show, but I have to admit it's a hard show to sit through now that Tiny Toon Adventures and Animaniacs are currently airing on The Hub. I watch TLTS now and I can't help but wonder what this show could have been if Spike Brandt and Tony Cervone hadn't been afraid to copy the shorts style.
I'm just going to say it: I'm glad this is the last season of Futurama. If this current season is any indication, then the idea well is clearly running dry. This season had produced some decent gags here and there, but the episodes have been the weakest of any season that I can recall.
Quote from: Silverstar on July 25, 2013, 07:09:48 AM
I'm just going to say it: I'm glad this is the last season of Futurama. If this current season is any indication, then the idea well is clearly running dry. This season had produced some decent gags here and there, but the episodes have been the weakest of any season that I can recall.
I completely agree with you. I don't think I've liked anything from this season of Futurama at all. Nothing's as bad as that Christmas one from a few years back, but good lord it's like they saved all the weakest stuff for this season.
You know, there are people that actually want Futurama revived on another network now.
Actually, has that ever happened before? Show cancelled once, revived on new network, show gets cancelled again, only to be revived again on a third network?
I've yet to see a TV series get brought back from the abyss twice. And what network would pick up Futurama? If the series were to return to Adult Swim, it would most likely just be the reruns of seasons 1-4, since Williams Street didn't have the budget to produce new episodes then, and they don't have it now. The only other choice that I could see if maybe FX, since that airs Archer.
Honestly, if the episodes from this season are what we could expect from Futurama now, I think that it would be better to just let the show die.
Gah, I assumed this season of Futurama was great. Also, I still have no interest in Animaniacs or TTA. Both shows bored me to tears as a kid.
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 25, 2013, 02:45:10 PM
Also, I still have no interest in Animaniacs or TTA. Both shows bored me to tears as a kid.
To each their own. Most action cartoons bore me, except for some of the superhero stuff. I've always preferred comedies, especially zany comedies, and I lose interest in plots which take more than 2 or 3 episodes to resolve. But s'all good. different strokes (https://animationrevelation.com/DifferentStrokes.jpg) for different folks, and so on and so on and scooby-dooby-dooby...
And now, a truly unpopular opinion: 3 of the least interesting superheroes to me are Batman, Spider-Man and Wolverine.
Bats and Wolvie are more interesting when they're surrounded by teams than when they're alone; part of the appeal of Logan and Bats is their contrast to their lighter, more 'squeaky-clean' members of the rest of their respective teams. Take away that contrast and those guys just bore me. As solo acts, Batman and Wolverine are just dull to me. (Though it's worth mentioning that I liked Wolverine more before everybody on the planet started loving him. But I'm an contrarian Aquarius.)
Spidey just never did it for me. I generally don't like superheroes who are everyday shmucks like Peter Parker. I prefer the larger-than-life superheroes like Superman, Iron Man, Capt. America, the Fantastic Four; the capes with billions of dollars, cool alien origins, genetic enhancements, fame and glory and high-tech HQs. The less said about
Ultimate Spider-Man, the better. The only reason I'd ever entertain the thought of watching
Ultimate Spider-Man is for that show's hot version of Aunt May.
-Oh, and I hate secret identities with the fury of 1000 suns. I understand why so many shows and comics implement them and what purpose they serve, but I still strongly dislike them. They always remind me of those cheesy 1950's-1960's sitcoms where the protagonists spend half the time making stupid-assed excuses to their bosses or in-laws or neighbors or whomever. I never could stand the "I/we have/are/can do something really cool, but I/we have to keep it a secret from everyone" trope, not even as a kid.
For some reason, I tend to gravitate towards female characters in many cartoons. When an animated show has no females in the main cast (with the exception of Regular Show), I tend to lose interest in it fairly quickly.
People have told me that Nick's Sanjay & Craig got better after the pilot episode, so I watched a couple more episodes but I still found the series to be loud, obnoxious and not funny. The only character on S&C whom I kind of like Sanjay's mom.
Speaking of newer shows, I really, really wanted to like Grojband. I really liked the character designs and the art-style. Reminded me of Fosters. But writing-wise, it's shit. No character is likable, and every episode seems to end the same way: get the sister so angry she writes lyrics in her diary that the band steals and makes a song out of. And that's it. Every time.
Quotedifferent strokes (https://animationrevelation.com/DifferentStrokes.jpg) for different folks
Once again, any use of this phrase must be associated with how Gary Coleman was almost raped by some old white bike dealer.
Rocket Monkeys: One of the worst pieces of animated garbage I've had the displeasure of witnessing in recent years. Basically about two monkeys in constant competition against each other along with their robot assistant in a space ship who are sent on various missions. The mission giver? Dr. Chimpsky (Yes, that's his name.), easily a ripoff of Duck Dodgers' Dr. I.Q. Hi, whereas they both give orders to their respective protagonists via a black and white monitor..
..... !
............ !!
Forced comedy = Do not want. The writers try way too hard to make this a funny show, but in essense, it's laughable at just how bad it really is. I even find some of the character designs to be piss-poor. I remember landing on an episode one evening where there was some evil pirate crab hopping around on a single peg leg which looked too much like.... ugh........! (insert your favorite facepalm.jpeg here) ... yeah, a pirate crab hopping around on its erect penis. Complete with condom attached. What a happy lil crab to be jumping around on his little wang like that! ;D How could anyone not get this same impression?
..............................!1!1!1!!!!
From what I've been able to tell, this show is apparently aimed at a younger demographic. But
it's trying to be a clone of Duck Dodgers in the 24th and a half Century and fails miserably.
What the hell?! TTA and Animaniacs being comedies has nothing to do with why I find them boring.
Quote from: Silverstar on July 25, 2013, 04:34:41 PM-Oh, and I hate secret identities with the fury of 1000 suns. I understand why so many shows and comics implement them and what purpose they serve, but I still strongly dislike them. They always remind me of those cheesy 1950's-1960's sitcoms where the protagonists spend half the time making stupid-assed excuses to their bosses or in-laws or neighbors or whomever. I never could stand the "I/we have/are/can do something really cool, but I/we have to keep it a secret from everyone" trope, not even as a kid.
I think because otherwise there would be a
whole lot of other problems to deal with other than villains terrorizing the first national bank and would pretty much derail the story into being about the main character avoiding media attention (and probably getting a big head) instead of normal problems. And honestly, I find the 'big head' cliche a lot more boring than the character having to learn to sort their life out.
It's probably why I've never been all that interested in Iron Man (until RDJ) or the Fantastic Four. I really don't like the celebrity super-hero angle.
Maybe I'm completely wrong since I don't read comics, but I always thought that Iron Man's true identity as Tony Stark was a secret in most of the comics. I always kind of just assumed that it was a movie-thing where Tony Stark revealed his true identity, though I'm not sure why I thought that. Either way, though, I haven't read the comics other than Extremis (in which Tony's identity IS a secret), so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 25, 2013, 08:58:10 PM
Maybe I'm completely wrong since I don't read comics, but I always thought that Iron Man's true identity as Tony Stark was a secret in most of the comics. I always kind of just assumed that it was a movie-thing where Tony Stark revealed his true identity, though I'm not sure why I thought that. Either way, though, I haven't read the comics other than Extremis (in which Tony's identity IS a secret), so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
It probably is since I haven't read the comics in such a long time and I don't even remember the last Iron Man I read so I might be the one mistaken. ;)
Comics aside, though I liked the reveal of his identity at the end of the first movie, the second movie covered a lot of the things I don't like about the whole revealed identity thing, while the third managed to bypass it by throwing Tony in the middle of nowhere to escape it.
While the problems with the second movie go deeper than what I'm talking about, I still see it as a fundamental distraction from whatever story we might have had without it. I think superheroes need identities both to keep them grounded and to keep the plot centered on direct good and evil battles. When you take it away it tends to distract and muddle things up.
Though I have no idea if that's an unpopular opinion or not. :D
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 25, 2013, 08:10:06 PM
What the hell?! TTA and Animaniacs being comedies has nothing to do with why I find them boring.
Hm? I don't recall saying that or even implying that. I was just talking about myself, which I do a lot. :>
Quote from: gunswordfist on July 25, 2013, 02:45:10 PM
Also, I still have no interest in Animaniacs or TTA. Both shows bored me to tears as a kid.
No wonder your life is so filled with unhappiness.
Hey, it's not THAT unhappy.
Henry Selick recently said this.
"It?s too homogenous. It?s way too much the same. The films aren?t really that different one from the other. Despicable Me could have been made Pixar, by DreamWorks. It?s not a great time for feature animation if you want to do something even moderately outside the formula"
I agree with him on certain points, but not as a whole. If there is one thing about the animation industry today that stands out better than in the 90's, it's that we're well past the age when basically all we'd get in feature films are Disney and Disney knock-offs.
But I can see how a lot of animated films coming out today rely on a particular formula. While Pixar and Dreamworks have thankfully been experimenting more either in the vein of Toy Story or Shrek. Obviously there's more to the industry then that, like how Disney's been making memorable movies again, but I would definitely like more Coralines.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on July 25, 2013, 08:02:27 PM
Quotedifferent strokes (https://animationrevelation.com/DifferentStrokes.jpg) for different folks
Once again, any use of this phrase must be associated with how Gary Coleman was almost raped by some old white bike dealer.
scream real loud in my ass
Quote from: Kiddington on July 29, 2013, 12:24:48 AM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on July 25, 2013, 08:02:27 PM
Quotedifferent strokes (https://animationrevelation.com/DifferentStrokes.jpg) for different folks
Once again, any use of this phrase must be associated with how Gary Coleman was almost raped by some old white bike dealer.
scream real loud in my ass
I already made that joke. That means we're above our monthly Family Guy quota.
Also, everybody leave. I have to poop. NOW.
Quote from: Avaitor on July 29, 2013, 12:26:32 AM
Quote from: Kiddington on July 29, 2013, 12:24:48 AM
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on July 25, 2013, 08:02:27 PM
Quotedifferent strokes (https://animationrevelation.com/DifferentStrokes.jpg) for different folks
Once again, any use of this phrase must be associated with how Gary Coleman was almost raped by some old white bike dealer.
scream real loud in my ass
I already made that joke. That means we're above our monthly Family Guy quota.
Also, everybody leave. I have to poop. NOW.
Well, I guess I totally missed it.
But hey... testicles. That is all.
I've never understood the immense appeal of Rugrats. I've never "gotten" that show or understood why people loved it so much. The character designs were unattractive. I hated the crude humor and I've never found it to be particularly funny. The only thing that I really liked about Rugrats was the fact that for once there was a cartoon that focused on human characters, not talking animals or things. But there was nothing much beyond that.
I hated Angelica. She was a complete bitch and the show became unbearable when the writers began shoehorning her into every single episode. Angelica was the most undeserving character of admiration status since Lucy Van Pelt. Alexandra Cabot (from Josie and the Pussycats) was a bitch also, but at least Josie's writers would knock her around routinely, so if nothing else she at least earned some of our sympathy due to her conflicted ordeal.
I liked Rugrats, but I'll never understand fully why or how they blew up so much at the late 90s. I remember when there was a long gap in between episodes and I thought that episode where Angelica thought she was moving and made up with the others was the series finale. Then, out of nowhere Rugrats not only comes back but now there's merchandise everywhere and every kid and teenage girl was raving about it. What the crap happened?!
The first few seasons of Rugrats are very clever in their blending of the adult world with childhood imagination and mixing and matching when appropriate. I remember watching it before it blew up and even then it was very popular in reruns.
But then they brought it back and completely lost everything that was enjoyable about the early episodes and made it a basic gross-out show with characters that were dumber than they were in the earlier episodes. I remember being excited when I heard they were making new episodes, but I really didn't dig them much and eventually stopped watching.
The first two movies were fine, but nothing else from the 'revival' caught my attention.
Yeah, I think the first movie was the last time I really liked Rugrats. I thought the series was pretty damn clever with how it used the kids' imaginations. And then Dil showed up and the show went to shit.
I hated the Rugrats Movie. I thought it represented everything wrong with later era of the show.
I can't remember the Paris movie much cause I only saw it once and that was in theaters a long time ago. I hear people say it's better than the first movie, but I still struggle to imagine it's anywhere close to being good.
I still like both movies. They both have their share of warts and needless gross-out jokes, but like any good kids movie, its heart is in its right place.
Wasn't there a third movie? I can't even remember.
If you mean the Wild Thornberries crossover, then yeah, I think that counts as the third. Unless I missed one completely.
Yeah, that's the third.
I saw it once, when Nick did a marathon of all 3 movies during a Thanksgiving weekend. I was a bit older then, like 16 or 17, and it did absolutely nothing for me. And I could tell that even if I did see it when it came out, it still wouldn't have done much for me.
The movies aren't anything great, but the first movie is about the only 'gross-out' stuff I can take and it is otherwise pretty harmless. The second one gets a bit too wacky, but the ending does at least feel like a nice solid capper on the series.
It's not like anything else that happens after the second movie really changes or adds to anything.
I always thought there was only one Rugrats movie lol. Shows how early I stopped paying attention to the show.
From what I gather, this is going to be a somewhat unpopular opinion, though maybe not necessarily on this site.
I don't think Timone and Pumba from Lion King are bad. I mean, I wouldn't say I like them, and they can be a bit annoying. But I don't dislike them. They have their funny moments. And Hakuna Matata is a fun song, even if it's certainly the worst song in that movie.
I don't HATE Timon & Pumbaa either, but they've always been my least favorite part of the movie. Even as a kid.
But I could never get behind their show at all. That was a Ren & Stimpy clone which was clearly inferior to the original. Strangely enough, I do think Lion King 1 1/2 is cute, though.
They mostly bother me when they break a certain mood, their very first appearance. Not the best first impression to me.
I can't stomach The Lion King 1 1/2. To me, Timon and Pumba spent their lives in and grew up in that jungle. :P
You know there's no 'e' to Timon, right?
Quote from: Avaitor on August 13, 2013, 01:01:55 PM
You know there's no 'e' to Timon, right?
I can't blame that one on the auto correct.
Wait, people hate them?
Of all the Disney direct to dvd movies, Lion King 1 1/2 is the only one I like, even though it's completely nonsensical and can't be canon to The Lion King in any capacity. As far as the characters themselves, I like them, in small doses, and don't see anything to hate about them. They have some great moments and lines in The Lion King, and I've always enjoyed them.
The characters of Timon and Pumbaa were/are OK, but I couldn't really get into their show. It always struck me as a poor man's Ren & Stimpy, but then I say the same thing about The Shnookums and Meat Funny Cartoon Show and HB's 2 Stupid Dogs. Regarding stuff like Timon & Pumbaa and Shnookums & Meat, outside of Darkwing Duck and Goof Troop, it's always been weird to me whenever Disney tries to do zany humor a Looney Tunes and the like.
I've never seen The Lion King 1 1/2, so I can't comment on that.
I think The Lion King II isn't bad. Sure, it's not canon. There's simply no way it possibly could be (but then again, I don't consider any of these DisneyToon sequels to be canon). But I like the music in it, mostly "He Lives in You" and "One of Us".
I think that 2 Stupid Dogs was a better Ren & Stimpy than Ren & Stimpy. The latter obviously inspired the former, but 2 Stupid Dogs had better writing and the humor was less forced and perverse.
Quote from: Goldstar on August 13, 2013, 03:27:23 PM
I think that 2 Stupid Dogs was a better Ren & Stimpy than Ren & Stimpy. The latter obviously inspired the former, but 2 Stupid Dogs had better writing and the humor was less forced and perverse.
I agree with this. I like both shows, but 2 Stupid Dogs holds up more for me than R&S.
The only Disney sequels I really like are An Extremely Goofy Movie and The Rescuers Down Under. None of the others stack up to the originals.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 13, 2013, 04:08:43 PM
Quote from: Goldstar on August 13, 2013, 03:27:23 PM
I think that 2 Stupid Dogs was a better Ren & Stimpy than Ren & Stimpy. The latter obviously inspired the former, but 2 Stupid Dogs had better writing and the humor was less forced and perverse.
I agree with this. I like both shows, but 2 Stupid Dogs holds up more for me than R&S.
I also agree. I still find 2SD enjoyable.
I typically don't think of Rescuers Down Under when I think of Disney sequels. It's worthy of being listed as a true Disney film.
I can see why you make that distinction, because unlike most of the sequels (hell, all of them besides Fantasia 2000 and Winnie the Pooh), Rescuers Down Under is a part of the Disney canon.
You know, I'm noticing that people are downplaying "Ren & Stimpy" lately. Even when people aren't familiar with John K. or the Games takeover, people don't rate it as high. Shows like "Rocko's Modern Life" or "2 Stupid Dogs" gets better reception nowadays than the show that started the modern cartoon movement.
Not that I disagree, I like "Rocko" better than R&S, although the latter has better animation.
Speaking of which, while I like the "Stupid Dogs", I think the "Secret Squirrel" segments were better. I enjoy them more than the original 1960s cartoon it was based on.
I was actually in the minority when R&S was out that had no interest in seeing it, and when the market was flooded with gross-out clones also disliked those. 2 Stupid Dogs has always been an exception because of its similarities to old HB cartoons that I really liked as a kid. (I mean stuff like Huck or Top Cat, not the lame Scooby Doo ripoffs)
The thing with Rocko is people like the Nostalgia Critic who think it is merely a R&S rip-off when it isn't. The show was a satire of modern life and had a cast of very likeable characters getting in some very sticky situations. Whatever gross-out comedy there was had little to do with why I enjoyed the show as a kid and why I like it now. The crude jokes are there, yes, but they aren't why I watch the show. Never really have been.
It's really on here that Ren & Stimpy gets an overwhelming negative reception.
I like it more than most people on here, but I see its faults and it doesn't rank too highly on my favorites. I can also see where the influence that modern animators took from R&S, and genuinely enjoy the show at its best, which is where my appreciation comes from it.
I admire John K. as an animator and an artist, but certainty not as a writer and conceptualist. Ren and Stimpy, at it's best, really is quite incredible, but the problem is it was only at it's best for 10% of the shows' run, and the rest of it is pretty mediocre in my experiences watching through it, not even getting into the abomination that is APC. I don't think the main show deserves too much hate, but I also think it doesn't deserve too much praise. It's a love-it or hate-it show, but overall, I myself would call it a flawed, but significant cartoon in animation history, that at it's best serves as an example of what television animation should strive for, and at it's worst shows what television animation should not be.
You know, the Games-era episodes get a ton of hate, but not all are bad. Some are almost on-par with an average Spumco episode.
"Stimpy's Cartoon Show" and "An Abe Divided" are pretty good. I also like "Feud for Sale" (which doesn't feature Ren and Stimpy at all) and "Reverend Jack".
Quote from: Cartoon X on August 13, 2013, 11:47:41 PM
I admire John K. as an animator and an artist, but certainty not as a writer and conceptualist. Ren and Stimpy, at it's best, really is quite incredible, but the problem is it was only at it's best for 10% of the shows' run, and the rest of it is pretty mediocre in my experiences watching through it, not even getting into the abomination that is APC. I don't think the main show deserves too much hate, but I also think it doesn't deserve too much praise. It's a love-it or hate-it show, but overall, I myself would call it a flawed, but significant cartoon in animation history, that at it's best serves as an example of what television animation should strive for, and at it's worst shows what television animation should not be.
This, all of this. Exactly how I feel about it.
Quote from: Foggle on August 14, 2013, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: Cartoon X on August 13, 2013, 11:47:41 PM
I admire John K. as an animator and an artist, but certainty not as a writer and conceptualist. Ren and Stimpy, at it's best, really is quite incredible, but the problem is it was only at it's best for 10% of the shows' run, and the rest of it is pretty mediocre in my experiences watching through it, not even getting into the abomination that is APC. I don't think the main show deserves too much hate, but I also think it doesn't deserve too much praise. It's a love-it or hate-it show, but overall, I myself would call it a flawed, but significant cartoon in animation history, that at it's best serves as an example of what television animation should strive for, and at it's worst shows what television animation should not be.
This, all of this. Exactly how I feel about it.
Absolutely.
John K. is his own worst enemy. He has a creative mind for ideas, but he can barely write and direct worth a damn. I do admire his stubborn nature to have a need to go his own path with his creations and have decent creative control. But you also need to be able to work with your employers and listen to what they say or suffer the consequences thereof.
I know Thad Komorowski is a controversial figure in animation fandom, but everybody should check out his book "Sick Little Monkeys", which goes into details on what went on in the production of Ren & Stimpy, even devoting chapters on the Games-era of the show. It's very well done.
Yeah, I've been wanting to read that.
Dalek be damned, The Black Cauldron rules.
Quote from: Avaitor on September 03, 2013, 12:56:15 PM
Dalek be damned, The Black Cauldron rules.
:thumbup:
I've always had a soft spot for that movie. Watched it all the time as a kid.
American Dad is awful, always has been awful, yet people on the internet love it. I don't get it.
Quote from: Comeau on September 29, 2013, 08:32:49 PM
American Dad is awful, always has been awful, yet people on the internet love it. I don't get it.
:il_rope:
I don't know what that represents. I am slightly(more than slightly?) drunk though.
I've never really liked the show, but tonight's episode has so far been just as funny as the Family Guy and The Simpsons episodes before it. Which is to say painfully unfunny.
It's one of my top 5 animated shows, honestly. Just my kind of humor (most of the time).
I don't go out of my way to watch American Dad but of all the Seth MacFarlane shows I like it a lot more than Family Guy or, ugh, The Cleveland Show.
American Dad is so horrible.
I disagree with the "always has been awful" part. It's within the last three seasons that its become more dull. Family Guy still makes me laugh even in otherwise mediocre episodes. But last night's episode didn't get a single laugh from me.
Archer is the best adult cartoon of all time. Not a single episode that didn't manage to get a good laugh out of me. It's better than South Park in its prime, Family Guy seasons 2-6, The Simpsons' first eight seasons, and heck even better than the short lived The Critic. Duckman is the second. And I still freaking love Family Guy and The Simpsons.
Also, I love Batman: The Animated Series and I'm glad The Hub has allowed me to rewatch it, but Batman: The Brave and the Bold has surpassed it as the quintessential Batman cartoon. What's made me realize this is that all the episodes are good. There's not a single bad one in the whole bunch. The closest to worse are merely not as strong as others, but still a lot of fun. The direction is great, the writing is superb, the animation is wonderful, and its balance between comedy and seriousness is second to none. It's not just a great Batman series, its a great cartoon period. And it's a recent cartoon at that.
Wait, is saying Archer is awesome somehow unpopular?
No, but I think saying it's the best adult cartoon ever isn't a commonly popular opinion. Personally, it's not my favorite adult cartoon, but it's so damn good that I definitely don't disagree with other people considering it as such. :thumbup:
Quote from: Peanutbutter on October 10, 2013, 09:29:36 PM
Archer is the best of adult cartoon of all time. Not a single episode that didn't manage to get a good laugh out of me.
Agreed. :thumbup:
I've been secretly thinking the same thing for a while now, PB.
Although Archer's toughest competition for me is KOTH. And to Archer's credit, we haven't had a "Racist Dawg" yet, nor is its earliest episodes radically different from its prime.
Quote from: Peanutbutter on October 10, 2013, 09:29:36 PMAlso, I love Batman: The Animated Series and I'm glad The Hub has allowed me to rewatch it, but Batman: The Brave and the Bold has surpassed it as the quintessential Batman cartoon. What's made me realize this is that all the episodes are good. There's not a single bad one in the whole bunch. The closest to worse are merely not as strong as others, but still a lot of fun. The direction is great, the writing is superb, the animation is wonderful, and its balance between comedy and seriousness is second to none. It's not just a great Batman series, its a great cartoon period. And it's a recent cartoon at that.
:thumbup:
I recommend keeping up with my blog series on AR if you're a fan. I intend to try and show why the show is so good and has much more going for it than people think.
Quote from: Peanutbutter on October 10, 2013, 09:29:36 PMAlso, I love Batman: The Animated Series and I'm glad The Hub has allowed me to rewatch it, but Batman: The Brave and the Bold has surpassed it as the quintessential Batman cartoon. What's made me realize this is that all the episodes are good. There's not a single bad one in the whole bunch. The closest to worse are merely not as strong as others, but still a lot of fun. The direction is great, the writing is superb, the animation is wonderful, and its balance between comedy and seriousness is second to none. It's not just a great Batman series, its a great cartoon period. And it's a recent cartoon at that.
I agree that I enjoy it more than BTAS, myself (and I love BTAS), but to be fair, I think it's more fair to compare BTB&TB to team-based superhero shows like Justice League/Unlimted or AEMH than to BTAS. The reason I say that is because despite featuring Batman in the title, BTB&TB isn't JUST about Batman like BTAS is. It's really about Batman and the DC Universe, and most episodes have him teaming up wit other superheroes, so really I still feel like it has more in common with superhero team shows than the individual ones like BTAS, STAS, TSSM, and so forth.
Either way, though, it's my 2nd favorite superhero cartoon ever.
Another unpopular opinion of mine which I'm not sure if I already mentioned or not is:
I like the 2nd half of season 2 of AEMH. Yes, it's not as sharp as the stuff before it, and there are a few bad episodes in there (only a few, though), but I thought there were also a decent amount of legitimately good episodes as well. And despite hearing that there would e no 2-parters in the 2nd half of the season, we still essentially got one anyways in the 2 episodes resolving the conflict with the Kree, which I thought were great, personally. Overall, I honestly don't feel like the show went THAT much downhill with the latter half of the 2nd season, and taking it all into account, it's still yet another one of my favorite superhero cartoons.
I was probably too harsh in the other thread, because yeah, the second half of EMH season 2 really isn't that bad. You can tell that there was something going on behind the scenes, but it only got really bad for like one episode.
I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I do feel that in the past few years, Disney's animated offerings have become more exciting than whatever Pixar's been up to.
"Exciting" is an odd choice of words, since though I have enjoyed Disney's last few installments, none have really made me excited to see them.
But I do have to say that while Monsters U will probably become underrated in a few years, I do wish Pixar would go back to their originals. WALL*E and Up are still amazing movies (and the latter is one of my all-time favorites) and from the descriptions, they still have great looking ones in waiting.
Well I've been, and I've been seeing more and more people go out of their way to watch Disney's recent offerings, and not so much for Pixar.
I just find the change in dynamic fascinating. Especially since if Frozen keeps up its current track (and there isn't really any family movie coming out for a while, so it probably will), it might be the first DAC to top Pixar's outing in the box-office since, I think for the first time actually.
You know, I haven't watched Total Drama Island since the first season, barring an episode here or there, but I've been watching the fifth season marathon today and... this split personality thing is stupid. Isn't this supposed to parody a reality show? Why can we see inside this guy's head?
Quote from: Nel_Annette on December 03, 2013, 06:06:06 PM
You know, I haven't watched Total Drama Island since the first season, barring an episode here or there, but I've been watching the fifth season marathon today and... this split personality thing is stupid. Isn't this supposed to parody a reality show? Why can we see inside this guy's head?
Explain this phenomenon.
One of the characters has a split-personality disorder and an occasional scene inside his subconscience where the other personalities are talking with each other occurs. In a show where characters regularly talk to the camera as if it's a reality show. That's stupid.
Gotcha.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on December 03, 2013, 06:06:06 PM
You know, I haven't watched Total Drama Island since the first season, barring an episode here or there, but I've been watching the fifth season marathon today and... this split personality thing is stupid. Isn't this supposed to parody a reality show? Why can we see inside this guy's head?
TD has never been a realistic series. I mean, this is a show that has mutant animals, a gollum-like mentally deranged former contestant, and a shark that can walk on land as antagonists. At some point they decided to just do crazy shit alongside the reality show parody stuff and just roll with it. I'd argue that the show and characters have evolved beyond just being parodies of reality show conventions and more of it's own thing now. Of course, Iit's always been a hit or miss show with humor and plotting and characters can still do stupid things and be annoying, so it can still be a drag sometimes. As for the split-personality thing, it's kinda stupid, yeah, but at the same time it makes for some amusing moments, so I don't have much of a problem with it, personally.
After watching a good chunk of episodes, I still think that Angry Beavers is one of the best Nicktoons. I still find it highly enjoyable even this many years later.
I think that Korra is a pretentious, poorly written, over-hyped pile of shit, and I await the day it's last episode airs and everyone can forget it ever existed.
On a more positive note, I think that WITCH and Oban Star-Racers are two of the best cartoons out there and that it's tragic that Disney just sort of let all the Jetix shows die without any hope of ever seeing the light of day again.
Quote from: King Hippo on December 30, 2013, 05:34:50 AM
I think that Korra is a pretentious, poorly written, over-hyped pile of shit, and I await the day it's last episode airs and everyone can forget it ever existed.
Have you watched the Wan two parter? They're easily the best episodes of the series, mainly because they're not bogged down by all the stupid plot points of the main story.
I don't exactly see how Korra is pretentious. It doesn't seem to have the problem of thinking that its smarter than it is, among all of the problems that it actually does have.
But not liking Korra isn't exactly an unpopular opinion as it is. If anything, it'll probably be remembered as the series that failed to live up to the standards of TLA.
To me Korra tries way too damn hard to imitate a serious action anime, which only makes it that much more obvious that it isn't at all. It might be a personal thing, but the emotions they try to convey don't work for me at all.
You know what wasn't a bad show? Dave the Barbarian.
I've always been critical towards Disney Channel stuff, but I always had a bit of a soft spot for this one, since it had a smidge of Jay Ward and 90's Warner influence in it. Paul Rugg probably explains the latter.
I've always enjoyed Dave the Barbarian myself. It might be my favorite Disney Channel animated series, honestly.
Always had a soft spot for Dave the Barbarian. It's the only Disney Channel show besides American Dragon I've ever cared to rewatch.
I hate how people call a show they've seen little to none of bad or overrated just because they think fanboys on the internet love it too much.
Quote from: gunswordfist on February 24, 2014, 01:35:16 PM
I hate how people call a show they've seen little to none of bad or overrated just because they think fanboys on the internet love it too much.
You mean, yourself and SSM?
I actually watched Spectacular. Ask Spark and EK and thanks for playing. ;)
Quote from: gunswordfist on February 24, 2014, 01:35:16 PM
I hate how people call a show they've seen little to none of bad or overrated just because they think fanboys on the internet love it too much.
YES. God, yes. It's obnoxious when people hate on a show, and then you prod them about it, and you find out they've seen and know almost NOTHING about it. It's so stupid. Why hate on something just because it's popular? Just be indifferent and ignore the show and it's fans if you have to. You don't have to go out and call something shit just because it's popularity annoys you or you think it's something overrated.
I, personally, only "hate" shows I've actually watched, and a significant amount of at that. Even then, I only hate shows that REALLY pissed me off for how bad they are or became. Case in point,
Fairy Tail, which started out as OK adventure shonen and eventually became an terribly plotted mess of a story with bland, undeveloped characters and is basically now a soft-core hentai that rips off plot elements from other, better series and fails at doing even THAT. But see, I watched 100+ episodes of
Fairy Tail and read 300+ chapters so I actually know what's bad about it and how bad it can be. I've got justified anger at that series because I feel betrayed that I invested in a series that never lived up to promise and degenerated into one of the worst series I've ever read. When I call that series shit, it's coming from experience and a place with a hell of a lot more weight than someone who's barely seen any of it and has no reason to detest the series on that level aside from it's undeserved popularity.
It annoys me when people call something "shit" or bad but cant give legitimate reasoning why, more or less. They don't need to have sat through every episode of the show or anything. But more than a couple bloody episodes is only fair. Not liking something is one thing, but calling it "shit" and making an effort to bash something after only seeing little, unless that little is legitimately, extremely awful and offensive, is not justifiable grounds to hate on a show imo.
In that case, I've seen quite a few Jerk-wads who hate on Kill La Kill because they think its nothing more than a fanservice show based on only the first episode, and a complete misinterpretation of it at that.
What's Kill Late Kill?
Heart of Ice is NOT the best episode of Batman: The Animated Series. It's a good episode, and it permanently changed Mr. Freeze for the better, but there are great episodes before and after it.
I don't know if that's my favorite Batman episode, but it's still in my top 5.
What would you consider the best, though? :)
It's one of my favorites. What would your top 5/10 be?
Honestly, the only Cartoon Cartoons I really care about these days are Ed, Edd, n'Eddy, Billy and Mandy, Courage, Dexter's Laboratory, and The Powerpuff Girls. The rest don't really hold up for me outside of a couple episodes.
In addition, I find CN's current crop of shows to be the best they've had since the Powerhouse days. Sometimes, I think they are better.
Cartoon Cartoon-wise, only EEnE and Courage really hold for me as full shows. I still enjoy select episodes of the rest, but I can't say I'm too keen on revisiting the majority of, say, Dexter's or Johnny Bravo's runs, no matter how much I loved them as a kid. While I'm only mildly enthused by any of their newer cartoons, I must say that - Uncle Grandpa aside - CN's current lineup is actually quite good. I think today's kids can find just as much to like in Adventure Time and Regular Show as I did in the aforementioned series.
Dexter is like Rugrats to me. Pre-revival only, I have no problem watching any of it at almost any time.
You know me, if CN would put EEnE back on its main schedule, I would watch it every day when a season 3-5 episode was on.
I still think that of all the different eras of animated work from my childhood, the early Cartoon Network originals are among the best. If I had to choose between a marathon of Dexter, Johnny, Courage and Cow & Chicken over Rugrats, Arnold, CatDog, and Rocko, I'd go with the former any day, as much as I still really enjoy Rocko.
I've said it before, but I honestly think Rocko is the only real classic of the Nicktoons. There are great ones and good ones, but Rocko is the only one where I enjoy the whole series on a high level and have no problem watching any of it. Not to say it's their only good show, but it's the only one I would really deem a classic.
I'd agree with that, yeah.
Although Rugrats does come close, and would have too, if it ended early.
They do put EEnE on the schedule every so often still. At least for a few months every year. I don't remember if they've done it yet this year, though, since I don't watch anything on it live anymore.
I'll agree that I'd take the early Cartoon Cartoons over the early Nicktoons, since the only early Nicktoons I think I really care for now are
Rocko,
Angry Beavers, and
Aah! Real Monsters, and even then, AB is kinda uneven to me.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 21, 2014, 12:37:08 PM
I've said it before, but I honestly think Rocko is the only real classic of the Nicktoons. There are great ones and good ones, but Rocko is the only one where I enjoy the whole series on a high level and have no problem watching any of it. Not to say it's their only good show, but it's the only one I would really deem a classic.
I'll third this sentiment.
Quote from: Cartoon X on April 21, 2014, 12:41:11 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 21, 2014, 12:37:08 PM
I've said it before, but I honestly think Rocko is the only real classic of the Nicktoons. There are great ones and good ones, but Rocko is the only one where I enjoy the whole series on a high level and have no problem watching any of it. Not to say it's their only good show, but it's the only one I would really deem a classic.
I'll third this sentiment.
I'll fourth it.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 21, 2014, 12:37:08 PM
I've said it before, but I honestly think Rocko is the only real classic of the Nicktoons. There are great ones and good ones, but Rocko is the only one where I enjoy the whole series on a high level and have no problem watching any of it. Not to say it's their only good show, but it's the only one I would really deem a classic.
I'd say Hey Arnold!, Doug and Rocko. I do need to rewatch them though.
Arnold is genuinely good, but I have a lower tolerance for slice of life shows now that I'm older and so far removed from the age group. To still get replay from me, there needs to be some great dialogue and character moments, which is where The Weekenders comes in as my favorite from that subgenre of cartoons. Arnold has some great stuff, though.
And Doug just isn't meant for anyone older than he is. I think that's better left as a memory.
I think Courage might be the best of the Cartoon Cartoons. Powerpuff Girls was pretty good but vastly overrated in my opinion. Honestly, I can't stomach Mojo any more just from how much they used him in every other episode (at least).
Also, Doug was good... Nothing more than that, really. It was just good.
I'm glad Courage gets so much love around here. But then again, I don't know how well liked it is outside of this site. :D
PPG's overuse of Mojo was nothing compared to Kim Possible's overuse of Drakken and Shego.
That doesn't help your case.
Quote from: gunswordfist on April 21, 2014, 01:26:52 PM
I'm glad Courage gets so much love around here. But then again, I don't know how well liked it is outside of this site. :D
Considering the fact CN still periodically rotates it into it's schedule every year despite it having ended over a decade ago, I think it's safe to say it's pretty well liked.
Mojo Jojo's episodes in PPG tended to be my favorites. I think it's really the post-revival episodes that made his overuse seem obnoxious, since he was rather flanderized in those.
Quote from: gunswordfist on April 21, 2014, 01:38:50 PM
That doesn't help your case.
Eh, what can I say, I really grew to dislike Drakken and Shego before long.
I still love Mojo, and I don't think he became that overdone until the end of the show. There were still enough episodes with Him, Fuzzy, the Gangreen Gang, and Princess, among the bunch of one or two-timers besides Mojo until the show started to dip in quality.
That makes sense. Courage just seems underappreciated to me. People usually just mention EEnE, PPG, Dexter, etc. and Johnny Bravo seems to be more loved that Courage and we all know how flawed Johnny is.
I've never been as hot on Courage, but it's always had its fans.
Quote from: gunswordfist on April 21, 2014, 01:57:09 PM
That makes sense. Courage just seems underappreciated to me. People usually just mention EEnE, PPG, Dexter, etc. and Johnny Bravo seems to be more loved that Courage and we all know how flawed Johnny is.
Courage will always be my favorite. :)
Quote from: Foggle on April 21, 2014, 02:18:12 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on April 21, 2014, 01:57:09 PM
That makes sense. Courage just seems underappreciated to me. People usually just mention EEnE, PPG, Dexter, etc. and Johnny Bravo seems to be more loved that Courage and we all know how flawed Johnny is.
Courage will always be my favorite. :)
:thumbup:
I don't get why How to Train Your Dragon is so popular. I adore Lilo & Stitch but somehow HTTYD comes up a little short for me. It doesn't feel like the masterpiece many think it is to me. I think I honestly liked The Croods better...mainly because it was prettier, but also because Chris Sanders's warmth and sincerity showed through more there.
Also, the villain in HTTYD2 being the only non-white human character in the whole movie rubbed me the wrong way.
The Divide is a decent episode. I never hated it but the last time I watched it, I liked it and got a few good laughs. People claim its this awful filler episode but I don't see it. I think Book 1's, if not the entire show's worst episode is Cave Of Two Lovers but then again, my Katara hate may be amplifying my hatred of said episode. :sly: Anyway, I can't even think of any other bad filler episodes in Book 1. Just a few slower ones. I may need to rewatch Avatar Day though. This also makes me wonder if Book 3 has the most and/or overall worst set of filler episodes.
The Beach is probably the worst episode of the show to me. The Great Divide is merely boring.
I think the weakest part of Avatar has always been the early episodes of every season. For some reason the staff just jams all kinds of filler in there.
I don't think The Beach was that bad but then maybe I'm too good at watching shows on "cruise control"
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 23, 2014, 09:03:16 PM
I don't think The Beach was that bad but then maybe I'm too good at watching shows on "cruise control"
I mainly don't like it because it really has no purpose for being there. As a character episode it doesn't work, as a comedy episode it falls flat, and as fanservice it would better served as a fanfic.
I don't think there's anything about it I like.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 23, 2014, 09:13:12 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 23, 2014, 09:03:16 PM
I don't think The Beach was that bad but then maybe I'm too good at watching shows on "cruise control"
I mainly don't like it because it really has no purpose for being there. As a character episode it doesn't work, as a comedy episode it falls flat, and as fanservice it would better served as a fanfic.
I don't think there's anything about it I like.
You're wrong on all counts, but whatever.
I like "The Beach" myself. It's a good look into the doubts and insecurities of Zuko, Mai, Ty Lee, and Azula, which makes it a good episode in Zuko's character arc that season, gives Ty Lee and Mai some actual backstory making them more interesting characters, and develops the idea of Azula's long-seeded mommy issues that caused her to go crazy in the finale. Also, I just found it amusing to see them try to fit in with regular teenagers.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 23, 2014, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 23, 2014, 09:13:12 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 23, 2014, 09:03:16 PM
I don't think The Beach was that bad but then maybe I'm too good at watching shows on "cruise control"
I mainly don't like it because it really has no purpose for being there. As a character episode it doesn't work, as a comedy episode it falls flat, and as fanservice it would better served as a fanfic.
I don't think there's anything about it I like.
You're wrong on all counts, but whatever.
Thanks!
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 23, 2014, 09:42:56 PM
I like "The Beach" myself. It's a good look into the doubts and insecurities of Zuko, Mai, Ty Lee, and Azula, which makes it a good episode in Zuko's character arc that season, gives Ty Lee and Mai some actual backstory making them more interesting characters, and develops the idea of Azula's long-seeded mommy issues that caused her to go crazy in the finale. Also, I just found it amusing to see them try to fit in with regular teenagers.
Glad to see you enjoyed it. Obviously, considering the thread title, I'm alone in this.
What would you consider the show's worst episode?
For me, it's The Swamp. The foreshadowing is pointless since it's either stuff already foreshadowed in earlier episodes or something just a couple of episodes away, and as a stand-alone episode it's just an unfocused mess.
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 23, 2014, 09:42:56 PM
I like "The Beach" myself. It's a good look into the doubts and insecurities of Zuko, Mai, Ty Lee, and Azula, which makes it a good episode in Zuko's character arc that season, gives Ty Lee and Mai some actual backstory making them more interesting characters, and develops the idea of Azula's long-seeded mommy issues that caused her to go crazy in the finale. Also, I just found it amusing to see them try to fit in with regular teenagers.
Yep and it also brought up Zuko's issue with his father and how Ozai unexplainingly went from loving dad to evil asshole. I personally thought the episode could not just be considered a throwaway because of that. It's also brought up in a recap of an episode and ties in to Katara finding a picture of Ozai as a baby. Again, Ozai inexplicably turning into a terrible person and how he used to be a good one is brought up.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 23, 2014, 09:50:19 PM
For me, it's The Swamp. The foreshadowing is pointless since it's either stuff already foreshadowed in earlier episodes or something just a couple of episodes away, and as a stand-alone episode it's just an unfocused mess.
I might need to rewatch that episode. Also....why was the swamp/Earth, etc. alive? I'm not sure if that was ever explained. In fact, thinking about it kind of creeps me out.
Yeah, I'll have to second that I've never really cared for "The Swamp." I'm not that fond of the first few season two episodes before "The Blind Bandit" in general, "Return to Omashu" aside.
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 23, 2014, 11:43:11 PM
Yeah, I'll have to second that I've never really cared for "The Swamp." I'm not that fond of the first few season two episodes before "The Blind Bandit" in general, "Return to Omashu" aside.
Once you get to the Blind Bandit it really takes off, but yeah, the first couple of episodes are just sort of there. I don't remember liking the premiere episode all too much.
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 23, 2014, 11:43:11 PM
Yeah, I'll have to second that I've never really cared for "The Swamp." I'm not that fond of the first few season two episodes before "The Blind Bandit" in general, "Return to Omashu" aside.
Hmm, People seem to not like the very first episode of Book 2 and 3. I thought they were decent.
I thought that The Avatar State was OK, mainly for Zuko's sub-plot and the introduction of Azula as the new main villain of the series. Team Avatar's side of the plot was more predictable and by the numbers, but contained necessary exposition for how the Avatar State worked and also foreshadowed a lot of what would come later on in the season. It was a decent set-up episode for what it was. Return to Omashu was also pretty decent, but yeah, the first 5 episodes of Book 2 felt rather filler-ish for the most part, hence why I initially stopped watching the show at that point before deciding to pick it back up again once Doug Walker decided to do his V-Logs and reminded me that it even existed in the first place.
The Zuko plot of "The Avatar State" was good, but the Aang plot really held it back. But I'm not sure what it was with season 2 and 3 that they needed to put a bunch of filler-ish stuff near the beginning, you usually save that for mid-season. Though I guess in season 2's case that would have meant staying in the city a lot longer and some people thought it was too long to begin with.
I still like it more than most of Korra season 2, though.
Yeah, this is yet another show I need to rewatch. I'm somewhere in between really liking and loving the show as of now,
Heart of Ice is not the best episode of Batman: The Animated Series. It's a good episode, yes but the overall BEST EPISODE EVER the way people on certain sites hype it up to be. It did a wonderful job at recreating Mr. Freeze but there are plenty of episodes that had even more emotion to them, like Two-Face's debut.
Didn't you post the exact same thing like, a couple of months ago? :P
I agree that I think there were much more emotional episodes of the series, like "Perchance to Dream" and "Baby Doll." I like "Heart of Ice" a lot, but it's not one of my top favorite B:TAS episodes.
I'm going to be controversial and say I liked Clayface's origin episodes more than Two Face's.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 24, 2014, 04:24:12 PM
I'm going to be controversial and say I liked Clayface's origin episodes more than Two Face's.
Get the fuck off of my site.
Anyway, Baby Doll? Really? That's the one with the Gary Coleman girl, right?
:lol:
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 24, 2014, 04:33:18 PM
Anyway, Baby Doll? Really? That's the one with the Gary Coleman girl, right?
Yes, that's a strange one. The first 90% of the episode is really funny and ridiculous... until you get to the ending. Then it turns the whole episode around and you watch it again with a whole different perspective on not just her, but a lot of other villains in other episodes.
I think this episode has grown in popularity in recent years. I don't remember it being talked about much a long time ago.
I wasn't joking. >:(
I just remember some kid woman robbing banks or something and having a badass female bodyguard, "Whoa lady, you are good!""I'm better than good.". I'll rewatch it one day..when I finally sucessfully marathon the entire series. Three time's a charm?
I think that House and Garden is an underrated BTAS episode, seeing as how hardly anyone ever talks about it. Meanwhile, on the subject of good episodes that some of us might find to be a bit overrated, I'd actually go with Perchance to Dream, myself. Let's forget about how it made absolutely no sense for The Mad Hatter to go through so much effort to keep Batman alive in a dream world when he could've just killed him at any time. The actual episode itself, while interesting, is a pretty shallow jump into Bruce's psyche, honestly. It doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know about the character in terms if how he really feels, and the symbolism is just the most basic stuff to the point where even a little kid could get it. Granted that....this is a kid's show, but I guess that's the minor gripe I have with this episode. There are other episodes in the series that had subtle undertones of more adult themes that went over my head until I re-watched them as an adult. I always thought that this would be one of those episodes, but looking back on it, while it's a solid episode that's worth a re-watch, I don't see any more to it than what's plainly presented to us on the surface.
My vote for the best might go to "Second Chance".
I'm not sure which dream themed episode of Batman I prefer, Perchance to Dream or Over the Edge.
Over the Edge is a good episode.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 24, 2014, 09:50:16 PM
Over the Edge is a good episode.
That's an unpopular opinion? ???
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 24, 2014, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 24, 2014, 09:50:16 PM
Over the Edge is a good episode.
That's an unpopular opinion? ???
In some places it most definitely is.
I will go so far as to say if it wasn't a dream it would be a terrible episode.
Well, yeah, the episode only works because it's Barbara's worst-case scenario nightmare, where everything that she fears could go wrong goes wrong. If the episode wasn't a dream it would be annoying because Gordon acts out of character and the situation escalates too much to the extent of silliness.
Quote from: Cartoon X on June 24, 2014, 10:42:51 PM
Well, yeah, the episode only works because it's Barbara's worst-case scenario nightmare, where everything that she fears could go wrong goes wrong. If the episode wasn't a dream it would be annoying because Gordon acts out of character and the situation escalates too much to the extent of silliness.
And, really, at a certain point it becomes fairly obvious it's a dream, you just aren't sure whose it is or what caused it or what it means.
People that were angry because it was a dream sort of miss the point that if it wasn't, the episode wouldn't work.
I thought pretty much everyone agreed that Over the Edge and Mad Love were among the better episodes of the series.
Hmm, I remember when I first started loving Batman TAS a few years ago, a friend of mine said that Over the Edge was the best episode so I assumed that it was a well loved one. I haven't seen it since I was a child so I can't judge it at all right now.
It seems like Heart of Ice is the most critically acclaimed episode. I can not disapprove of that opinion at all.
Some people dislike "Mad Love" in comparison to its original comic story, too. I still haven't read it, so I can't say.
Also, here's another unpopular opinion of my own- The Weekenders is the best post-Afternoon Disney animated series.
I've never seen The Weekenders.
I haven't seen The Weekenders in ages, but I remember watching it and Recess all the time back when the Disney Channel re-ran the shit out of them.
I wonder if I just simply forgot about the show.
I rewatched the show last year, and I still think The Weekenders is great. I agree with Avaitor that it's Disney's best post-Disney Afternoon cartoon.
Man, I remember watching it everyday next to House of Mouse back in 1st-2nd grade. The latter doesn't hold up, though.
My personal favorite episode is Almost Got 'Im. Aside from it having Poison Ivy looking hot in a black swimsuit, it shows the best sides of each Batman villain's personalities. There's the right balance of humor and drama in it. It also kind of feels like well done episode of the 60's series with the silliness removed.
Quote from: Avaitor on June 24, 2014, 03:34:43 PM
Didn't you post the exact same thing like, a couple of months ago? :P
Eh, I might have. Given how overrated I feel the episode is despite it's quality; I stand by reiterating it.
I don't get why Samurai Jack is held up as this masterpiece and Genndy Tartakovsky, by himself, as this ultra-amazing genius. I prefer Dexter and PPG, and feel that maybe Tartakovsky was best with McCracken and Renzetti.
I'm not saying that Samurai Jack is a bad show, though.
>:(
-Roswell That Ends Well is a decent episode of Futurama, but I never understood why it was so highly regarded by fans, and even found its way to winning an Emmy. Personally I found it to be kind of average by pre-cancellation Futurama standards. Of course, average by those standards is still good, but it was never a favorite of mine.
-Apparently a lot of people don't like the Siege of Starro 2-parter in BTBATB because it based itself off of a classic JL story from the comics but replaced a lot of A-list superheroes with more obscure ones. Personally, as someone who doesn't read many comics, I couldn't care less about the change and in fact kind of appreciate the fact that the more minor superheroes help Batman save the day. Judged solely on its own merits, it tells a great story and has great character moments. So yeah, fuck those people.
-Stanley's Cup is one of the best episodes of South Park, and the ending was brilliantly hilarious. Pinewood Derby and Fatbeard were also really good episodes that a lot of people seemed to hate on for absolutely no good reason. Also, I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but the Black Friday trilogy is now my favorite multi-parter from South Park, but I'm not sure if it's the most popular among fans. Before this, Imagination Land was my favorite, followed closely behind by Cartoon Wars.
-While I love both films, I honestly have to say that, over time, I have come to prefer ROTJ over MOTP. For one thing, The Joker actually ties in thematically to the story of ROTJ, whereas in MOTP, his character really wasn't needed, and felt forced in there if only because he was Barman's most iconic villain, but you really could've replaced him with another one from Batman's rogue's gallery, and the story wouldn't have been substantially different for it. I also felt that the third act of that film, while still great, was slightly weaker than the first 2 acts which did a really god job of setting up the main conflict of this film, and both the charm and inevitable tragic dilemma of Bruce's relationship with Andrea. On the other hand, I found ROTJ to have a nice build-up all of the way through, to the point where it actually peaked in its climactic moments toward the end. I also loved the dynamic and parallels between Bruce and Terry, and their intertwining stories. The whole thing just felt so tightly written, directed, and paced. Once again, I consider both films to be among my favorite films of all time, so don't read it as me dissing MOTP, because I'm not, but I can now honestly say that if I had to pick one, I'd say that ROTJ stood out as the stronger film, to me.
I agree on SP. Just the end of that episode is gold, with adult hockey players beating the ever-loving shit out of toddlers and then "We Are The Champions" playing Mighty-Ducks style like they were the "good guys" the whole time. Made all the more ridiculous when it shows the scoreboard and you can see that somehow, Stan's team managed to score 2 points.
And the Black Friday (Brack Friday Bunduruuuuuu!) trilogy is my favorite as well.
South Park has gotten so boring these past few years.
I'm not sure if that's so much an unpopular opinion as it is a mixed opinion. It's about 50/50 from what I've seen. Personally I think the show is just fine these days. Certainly far better than the later seasons of Futurama, The Simpsons, and Family Guy, at the very least.
Yeah, I don't think the show has really dropped in quality at all. There's always an episode or two a season that I might not think is great, but otherwise it's still as enjoyable as ever for me.
Yeah, same here. The humor's changed a lot, but I still find it funny. Every season has always been varied in terms of hit/misses too.
Real talk- if you think The Princess and the Frog is irredeemable racist trash, but you give Pocahontas a free pass. you need to recheck your priorities.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 24, 2014, 11:00:30 AM
Real talk- if you think The Princess and the Frog is irredeemable racist trash, but you give Pocahontas a free pass. you need to recheck your priorities.
I really like TP&TF and think Pocahontas is garbage.
And it has nothing to do with race.
How is P&TF racist anyway? Honest question.
It's racist the same way Mulan's racist, in that it did a pretty good job with the story and research, but some social justice nitwit will decree racism simply because they're from white directors.
Well to be fair, I do think that the argument that the first black princess in a Disney movie becoming a frog brings up questionable issues is a legit one, but... let's just say that some of us know certain people who will use this debate to the nth degree.
Does hating "Legend of Korra" count as an unpopular opinion?
It's only unpopular if it doesn't get repeated every day.
Quote from: GregX on August 26, 2014, 03:24:37 PM
Does hating "Legend of Korra" count as an unpopular opinion?
From what I've seen the reception to the show has been all over the place since its inception. Some people seem to love it, others have mixed feelings about it, and a good portion of people downright hate it. So, it's probably not too unpopular of an opinion, but depending on the way you look at it, I believe it could still count as one.
As for me, it takes a lot for me to hate something (it has to be at least ThunderCats 2011 or USM levels of bad), so I've never hated Korra as a series, but I do believe that it's nowhere close to ATLA in its prime. Either way, Mike and Bryan stated that they don't want to do anymore Avatar related stuff after season 4, so people are free to just forget about it and pretend that it doesn't exist once the series ends for good.
That's not an unpopular opinion at all. Sometimes it feels like I'm the only one who liked Korra's second season.
Well, I liked the Beginnings 2-parter, at least. The rest of the season was easily my least favorite Avatar season by far, though. Still, even that I don't hate with a burning passion compared to some actual shitty shows that I've been subject to. It's just something that I have no desire to re-watch, but my negativity doesn't really go beyond that.
The only thing I really disliked about Korra was season 2. No idea what they were thinking with that one.
Quote from: Homura Akemi on August 26, 2014, 04:03:42 PMIsn't Gargoyles just Shakespeare with bats, coupled with a really substandard 3rd season
Goliath Chronicles is non-canon.
As far as Korra goes, the only season I hate is the second season (the Beginnings two-parter is okay, though). I thought the first season was decent but not on the same level as any of the Avatar seasons, while I really enjoyed the third season, and might say I like it more than book one of Avatar. Overall, though, I can't say I really like or dislike the show. I'm kind of just "eh" on the series overall.
Quote from: Homura Akemi on August 26, 2014, 04:24:47 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 26, 2014, 04:15:14 PM
Quote from: Homura Akemi on August 26, 2014, 04:03:42 PMIsn't Gargoyles just Shakespeare with bats, coupled with a really substandard 3rd season
Goliath Chronicles is non-canon.
It's still substandard, which is more than I can say for the first two seasons. Eww.
No, Gargoyles isn't terrible. It's as good as Korra!
Season 1 of Korra's alright until that abysmal finale. Season 2 is crap barring the Beginnings 2-parter, which is a shame when you have an entity like Vaatu and an event as big as Harmonic Convergence as the centerpiece (seriously, he's basically the villain of the entire franchise, and he gets stuck with a bore like Unalaq.). Season 3 is bloody fantastic, and my second favorite season of the franchise as a whole.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on August 26, 2014, 08:33:01 PM
Season 1 of Korra's alright until that abysmal finale. Season 2 is crap barring the Beginnings 2-parter, which is a shame when you have an entity like Vaatu and an event as big as Harmonic Convergence as the centerpiece (seriously, he's basically the villain of the entire franchise, and he gets stuck with a bore like Unalaq.). Season 3 is bloody fantastic, and my second favorite season of the franchise as a whole.
More or less this. It's being fairly over the map so far, but I mean, it's still no Ultimate Spider-Man (which has officially gotten a third season by the way) at the end of the day. I hope season 4 will end it on a good note at least, but man did they really drop the ball with season 2.
no one compared it to usm. season 2 was below average but not bad. i would say the beginnings is 10 out of 10, the first half before the beginnings is 6 out of 10 and the half after it is a 7. plus season 2 did help make korra a better character.
i officially like teen titans go! after watching another episode today.
Justice League's first season wasn't bad. There were some episodes that shouldn't have been two-parters like Metamorphosis, but Paradise Lost, Legends, Injustice for All, and both the series premiere and finale episodes The Savage Time were great.
i will attempt to restart the show for like the 4th time and then give my opinion.
Quote from: Peanutbutter on August 30, 2014, 06:37:14 PM
Justice League's first season wasn't bad. There were some episodes that shouldn't have been two-parters like Metamorphosis, but Paradise Lost, Legends, Injustice for All, and both the series premiere and finale episodes The Savage Time were great.
I don't think it's bad, either. To me, it's good. It's just not great.
My brother thinks Ren & Stimpy is as good as Rocko's Modern Life.
I certainly wouldn't go that far, but I have to admit I can kind of see some of the reason why one might think that. Rocko seems to be the Nicktoon known for being edgy and whatnot, but compared to Ren & Stimpy, it does play it relatively safe (though SpongeBob plays it safer still, and that's the most loved Nicktoon in general). Ren & Stimpy definitely knew how to make a situation uncomfortable yet funny ("Call the police" - Walrus). It also got downright psychotic at times. Plus, the artwork was phenomenal. And really, there's no denying the importance of Ren & Stimpy and how it pushed the boundaries of how far a children's cartoon could go, and for sure it had an influence on Rocko and SpongeBob.
My thing is that Rocko's Modern Life just had a higher level of consistency. I don't dislike Ren & Stimpy (I may have implied that I do in the past, but truthfully that was never accurate), but I do think it comes off as fairly hit or miss.
You can always tell how little of Ren & Stimpy someone has seen in recent years if they say it's among their favorites. There are always some people who decide to look up the most famous (see also: the best) episodes again, and think that the show was always this good.
And as someone who's seen a lot of R&S fairly recently, I can tell you that it doesn't get nearly as good as "Space Madness" or "Stimpy's Invention".
Quote from: Avaitor on September 14, 2014, 12:36:51 PM
You can always tell how little of Ren & Stimpy someone has seen in recent years if they say it's among their favorites. There are always some people who decide to look up the most famous (see also: the best) episodes again, and think that the show was always this good.
And as someone who's seen a lot of R&S fairly recently, I can tell you that it doesn't get nearly as good as "Space Madness" or "Stimpy's Invention".
He knows it wasn't always as good as the best episodes, but... eh, I don't know.
I did like Stimpy's Fan Club.
Reading the other thread again has made me think about Invader Zim some.
I still think that the show is good, but Gir is easily the worst part of it. That's my unpopular opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only person who thinks so on here.
I'm not sure if this is unpopular or not, but I want to say it-
Adventure Time and Regular Show have more than proved their worth in not just the Cartoon Network canon, but in the pantheon of quality animated programs. There's little denying that. But I truly believe that even though they're still fairly early in, Steven Universe has proven itself to be the better fantasy and mythology-based series, and Clarence the better laid-back comedy with a wide range of comedic styles.
That said, while I don't hate Uncle Grandpa, I do think that Gumball is still the superior younger-skewing comedy with a unique art style.
I agree with everything you've just said. I enjoy all the shows quite a bit, though. Except for Uncle Grandpa. But even then, I don't think that one's all that bad. Certainly not as much as some people make it out to be, at the very least.
I remember that people on this board were bashing Gumball on another thread, which I never got. Maybe I've only ever seen the good episodes, but I always found it to be a legitimately clever and funny show. Whenever I babysit my little sister I either usually end up watching either this or SpongeBob with her, and I much prefer watching this show.
Yeah, I can't agree with any Gumball hate either. It's a very enjoyable show most of the time, and has some really great episodes occasionally too. In fact, I would consider "The Sweaters," "The World," and "The Finale" somewhere in my top 100-ish favorite episodes from any animated series ever.
For whatever reason, I can't gain the interest to watch Gumball all the way through like I have AT and am RS, but it is a very enjoyable show when I check in.
And Nicole has to be one of the best moms in all of cartoons.
I feel Gumball is a show that started off with too much forced humor, mostly relying on the animation gimmick, but it got much, much better over time.
I do consider this a bit of a "golden era" for CN's prime time shows. I've kind of grouped Chowder, Flapjack, Adventure Time, Regular Show, Gumball, Steven Universe and Clarence into this kind of group of great, like-minded shows in my head. Two of them have long since ended, but the spirit is still there and they kind of kicked off this whole thing. Uncle Grandpa just isn't up there for me personally, and I've actually taken a liking to Teen Titans GO!, though I wouldn't consider it the same quality, but it's kind of hanging on there like a runner-up.
I mentioned before that TTG! has warmed up to me, but I'd hardly call it a great one.
But if you're gonna add Chowder and Flapjack to this era (and I'd hesitate with Chowder, personally- while I still like much of the earlier episodes, it fell fast and HARD), you gotta give credit to Sym-Bionic Titan as well. And I have to admit that I've been growing up to Generator Rex as something to keep me occupied with less busy homework.
I don't watch it regularly, but I'm almost done with the first season, and it's definitely better than anything Ben 10 related that I've seen.
I'm more referring to the comedy stuff. Never really watched Symbionic Titan enough to really classify it as anything, I never caught it when it was on and when it came to Adult Swim I found that I was just over that animation style. Admittedly for Chowder, I don't think I saw much after the first season, but I'm more including it in my personal group because it was what kicked off me paying attention to CN primetime again, and in turn led me on to watch Flapjack, and then Adventure Time, then Regular Show, and so on in my list. The defining characteristic of these shows I love, is that when I first saw each one, my initial reaction has been "This looks frickin' stupid." and I have been pleasantly surprised each time.
Here is an unpopular opinion I have.
I think SpongeBob, Rugrats, Rocko's Modern Life, and Hey Arnold! are the only Nicktoons that hold up exceptionally well. I mean there were other good ones, of course. But those four are the shows I can watch today and like as much as I did when I was a kid.
For me, it's Spongebob, Rocko, Hey Arnold!, Angry Beavers, and Aah! Real Monsters. I enjoyed rewatching episodes of all four of the latter this summer. The only Rugrats episodes I've seen recently have been post-Dil episodes, and I really couldn't get into those, but I will get around one of these days to rewatching the actual "good" seasons sometime in order to see how well that part of the show holds up for me.
for me it's zim, rocko, avatar, hey arnold and spongebob.
Quote from: Nel_Annette on November 16, 2014, 02:46:42 AM
I'm more referring to the comedy stuff. Never really watched Symbionic Titan enough to really classify it as anything, I never caught it when it was on and when it came to Adult Swim I found that I was just over that animation style. Admittedly for Chowder, I don't think I saw much after the first season, but I'm more including it in my personal group because it was what kicked off me paying attention to CN primetime again, and in turn led me on to watch Flapjack, and then Adventure Time, then Regular Show, and so on in my list. The defining characteristic of these shows I love, is that when I first saw each one, my initial reaction has been "This looks frickin' stupid." and I have been pleasantly surprised each time.
I can see what you mean. I have to say that I didn't see all of the later Chowder episodes, either, but I've seen enough of them to have my opinion sour on the show a good deal, but those earlier episodes are still enjoyable. I wouldn't even say just season 1, since my favorite episode is probably "Panini for President", which started off season 2. It wasn't until a few more episodes that it became increasingly more obnoxious.
But seriously, the Cartoon Network of now is just SO much better than it was around 2006-08. I still really enjoy my Eds and Billy & Mandy, but the other shows from that era just aren't worth it, give or take some Foster's or Class of 3000. But kids really should be happy with all the awesome shows CN on right now, especially since Nick has what, 3 cartoons. And 2 of them are older than their target audience at this point.
from the last few years, i've only liked rex, btbatb, sym-bionic titan, regular show, teen titans go and mad, with me being barely into rex. for me, the modern golden era ended when sym-bionic titan got screwed. i can't get into adventure time, couldn't get into mystery inc., i have barely given gumball and steven any chance and clarence and uncle grandpa none. maybe i should give the last 4 a try but either way, the regular show, titan and batman tbatb era was the last time i really liked cn.
Quote from: talonmalon333 on November 16, 2014, 01:18:31 PM
Here is an unpopular opinion I have.
I think SpongeBob, Rugrats, Rocko's Modern Life, and Hey Arnold! are the only Nicktoons that hold up exceptionally well. I mean there were other good ones, of course. But those four are the shows I can watch today and like as much as I did when I was a kid.
The ones that hold up to me are Rocko, Angry Beavers, Hey Arnold, early Spongebob and early Rugrats. There's some other good stuff, but they feel very much of their time compared to those.
robot chicken contains the best slapstick comedy since prime looney tunes.
I like Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes more than the live-action movie. To be clear, I love Whedon's Avengers film. It's pure fun from start to finish. However, I just love the more intricate plots and expanded characterization that the animated show allowed for.
absolute agreed, doctor. now if avengers 2 is as great as joss' astonishing x-men, which is flat out my favorite x-men and whedon anything then...
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 06, 2015, 06:50:22 PM
I like Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes more than the live-action movie. To be clear, I love Whedon's Avengers film. It's pure fun from start to finish. However, I just love the more intricate plots and expanded characterization that the animated show allowed for.
I agree, and I loved the movie. But I think EMH dropped the ball halfway through the second season when Josh Fine was removed and Jeph Loeb came in and handed the writing chores to Man of Action.
Agreed, though since I had low expectations going into the second half, I was surprised to see that it wasn't a complete train wreck like I expected. I did still quite enjoy episodes "Along Came a Spider" and "Powerless." I was however severely disappointed in how they resolved the Kree story-line, how they left the Surtur story-line completely unresolved, and how the final episode was a total mess that brought in Galactus out of left field, and had no rewarding sense of dramatic tension to leave the series off on a bang (which, come to think of it, is oddly reminiscent of how JLU ended).
And then Avengers Assembled happened, and....I like to put that show in a little corner of my mind along with the likes of The Goliath Chronicles and Ultimate Spider-Man, where I completely forget that they exist and am a happier person for it.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 08, 2015, 03:11:48 PM
Agreed, though since I had low expectations going into the second half, I was surprised to see that it wasn't a complete train wreck like I expected. I did still quite enjoy episodes "Along Came a Spider" and "Powerless." I was however severely disappointed in how they resolved the Kree story-line, how they left the Surtur story-line completely unresolved, and how the final episode was a total mess that brought in Galactus out of left field, and had no rewarding sense of dramatic tension to leave the series off on a bang (which, come to think of it, is oddly reminiscent of how JLU ended).
And then Avengers Assembled happened, and....I like to put that show in a little corner of my mind along with the likes of The Goliath Chronicles and Ultimate Spider-Man, where I completely forget that they exist and am a happier person for it.
I'm with you. Every word. Except for "Powerless". I did not like "Powerless" at all.
i thought jlu's ending was great.
Yeah, "Powerless" is my least favorite EMH episode. I actually like most of the second half of season 2 otherwise.
Oddly enough, I thought you once said that you liked "Powerless," Avaitor.
That said, I liked the episode mostly because of making Thor a tad less arrogant (which is also why I like the first movie), but I can admit that it's not as well-written as it could've been.
Though, on the subject of least favorite episodes, mine would personally be "Yellowjacket." I'm still baffled at how every Avenger just assumed that Pym was dead, just because an explosion happened in his lab and they never found his body (they didn't even consider any possibilities). That, and I just found that Pym became incredibly obnoxious in his Yellowjacket persona.
i liked powerless as well. not a favorite but a decent episode.
i agree that pym turning into yellowjacket (the personality change) was...off. i believe in the comics he beats his wife/gf around the time he becomes yellowjacket so i am guessing they decided to not only cut that out but any gradual change that may and just gave him an abrupt . also, luke cage's dialogue was terrible
I found my original rant on "Powerless"
QuoteEnchantress approaches Loki in his torture prison and offers him his freedom if he destroys Thor. To that end, she casts a spell on Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man that removes their powers. The spell will only be restored if .........
WHAT?!?!?!?!!?!?! The spell only lasts until the cursed finds INNER STRENGTH? Of all the cheesey LAME OVERDONE SATURDAY MORNING SPECIALS!!!!!!!! Thank you, Man of Action. CAP SHOULD HAVE REVERTED IMMEDIATELY, considering the Strength he showed in "Along Came A Spider". COME ON!
Well, I guess only Thor is the one who needs to learn humility and inner strength. WHAT THE FUCK!? Thor was willing to GIVE UP HIS HAMMER to BETA RAY BILL because he felt Bill NEEDED it MORE! How MUCH MORE CHARACTER DOES HE NEED TO SHOW? IT'S FRICKIN' MJOLNIR! This is the sort of Thor story you do in season one. Which...THEY ALREADY DID. THOR'S HUBRIS is WHAT PUT LOKI IN POWER IN ASGARD IN THE FIRST PLACE.
AND ANOTHER THING!!!!! IRON MAN'S ARMOR? REALLY? YOU DO KNOW THAT HE HAS MORE SUITS, RIGHT?
If they're going to take away Tony's science skills, why didn't Hawkeye get hit and loose his depth perception?
Oh...Really? Loki? Ending on a cliched villain line? YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!!!!
Can I just say that overall, EMH>Justice League>Young Justice
Powerless is amazing. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE8C1WWixgc)
;)
Quote from: Avaitor on February 18, 2015, 05:37:05 PM
Can I just say that overall, EMH>Justice League>Young Justice
I'd flip JL and YJ. But yes, EMH was awesome.
I believe that Steven Universe has already surpassed Adventure Time and Regular Show, and while it's schedule was split into three segments, its still on its first season. Depending on how things go when the story arc really gets going (and I'm positive it's coming very soon), it might have a good chance at matching Avatar:TLA's level.
Quote from: Avaitor on February 18, 2015, 05:37:05 PMCan I just say that overall, EMH>Justice League>Young Justice
Agreed.
I think that JL peaked in season 2, but JLU is a mixed bag (I like it, mind you, but it's not perfect).
As for YJ, I have my problems with it (mostly in season 2), but it is still a fun show.
Speaking of unpopular opinions on team-based superhero shows, I have to be honest and say that, personally, I can't stand Teen Titans. I have REALLY, REALLY tried to appreciate that show, but something about it just bugs me. I get that it has a dedicated fan-base, and that's fine, but it's just not my thing.
I think Teen Titans was at its best when it focused on comedy. It didn't do serious well at all.
That's the thing, though. Even the comedy didn't really work for me.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 18, 2015, 07:31:09 PM
That's the thing, though. Even the comedy didn't really work for me.
I don't think it's brilliant at comedy (I'm not even a fan of the show), but it's undoubtedly better at it than it is at serious moments.
TT is hit and miss for me as a whole these days. I do think most of the comedy episodes hold up better for me than the serious ones, though.
I actually like Go about the same as the original, maybe more. At least I actual laughs from it on occasion.
I revisited some episodes of Teen Titans a couple years back. About half of them held up pretty well, but the rest were just awful.
I liked early Teen Titans, overall, but once each arc started introducing weaker and weaker villains, it kind of lost me. I like the concept they were going for: after Robin and Slade, each season after focused primarily on a different Titan having their own nemesis, like Brother Blood for Cyborg, Trigon for Raven, and that Brain thing for Beast Boy. But in execution, those story arcs weren't really interesting, and the villains didn't compare to Ron Pearlman's Slade.
Legion of Superheroes>Justice League>EMH>Teen Titans>Wolverine and the X-Men>Young Justice
I definitely don't think Teen Titans is better than Young Justice. I really liked season one of Young Justice, and season two has a lot of good points like the Flash episode where we finally got animated Impulse.
i haven't seen season 2 yet. i have not watched tt in ages but i used to love it. it was a pretty fun show.
What the hell, why not rank every show in this genre that I've seen from my favorite to least favorite?
I'm only ranking shows that I've at least seen more than half of.
Excellent:
1. The Spectacular Spider-Man
2. Batman: The Brave and the Bold
3. Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
4. Batman: The Animated Series
Great:
5. Green Lantern: The Animated Series
6. Justice League/JLU
Very Good:
7. Batman Beyond
8. Young Justice
9. Superman: The Animated Series
Generally Good:
10. Wolverine and the X-Men
11. X-Men: Evolution
Not Really My Thing, But OK:
12. Static Shock
13. Teen Titans
Doesn't Hold Up:
14. 90's X-Men
15. 90's Spider-Man
16. 60's Spider-Man
Bad:
17. The Batman
18. Every Single Marvel Anime
Please Kill Me, Now:
19. Spider-Man Unlimited
20. Avengers: United They Stand
If I left any out, it's probably because I haven't seen the show.
I still need to get to Green Lantern.
Excellent:
1. Batman: The Brave and the Bold
2. The Spectacular Spider-Man
3. Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
4. Batman: The Animated Series
Great:
5. Justice League/JLU
6. Batman Beyond
Very Good:
7. Young Justice
8. Superman: The Animated Series
Generally Good:
9. X-Men: Evolution
10. Wolverine and the X-Men
Not Really My Thing, But OK:
11. Static Shock
12. Teen Titans
13. The Zeta Project
Doesn't Hold Up, But Watchable:
14. 90's X-Men
15. 90's Spider-Man
16. 60's Spider-Man
Bad:
17. The Batman
18. Superfriends
19. Every Single Marvel Anime
Please Kill Me, Now:
20. Spider-Man Unlimited
21. Avengers: United They Stand
Marvel Needs To Be Blown Up:
22. Ultimate Spider-Man
Looks like we're mostly in agreement. :thumbup:
The only reason that I didn't rank USM and AA is because I haven't seen more than a single episode of them, but yes, they are god-awful.
I totally forgot about Super Friends. I'd probably put it under "doesn't hold up, " myself, though, if only because I did watch the show as a little kid and enjoy it, but then again, that's just a nice way of saying that it's still pretty bad. ;)
i thought i was the only one who'd put static ahead of teen titans.
Static Shock was more consistent.
and what is still apparently an unpopular opinion of mine is i hate gear and i think the show's quality declined when richie became him.
As far as how I feel, based on what I've seen:
Excellent:
1. The Spectacular Spider-Man
2. Batman: The Brave and the Bold
3. Batman: The Animated Series
4. Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
Great:
5. Justice League/Unlimited
6. Superman: The Animated Series
Very Good:
7. Green Lantern: The Animated Series
8. Batman Beyond
9. Beware the Batman
10. Young Justice
Good:
11. X-Men: Evolution
12. Superman (1940's)
Okay:
13. Static Shock
14. Teen Titans & Teen Titans Go!
15. Wolverine and the X-Men
16. Legion of Superheroes
Doesn't Hold Up, but I still enjoy on a nostalgic level:
17. Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends
18. Super Friends
Bad:
19. The Batman
20. X-Men (90's)
21. Spider-Man (60's)
22. Spider-Man (90's)
Please Kill Me, Now:
22. Ultimate Spider-Man
23. Avengers Assemble
Excellent:
1. The Spectacular Spider-Man
2. Batman: The Animated Series
3. Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
Great:
4. Batman: The Brave & the Bold (REALLY due for a rewatch)
5. Superman: The Animated Series
6. Justice League
Very Good:
7. Batman Beyond
8. Green Lantern: The Animated Series
Generally Good:
9. X-Men: Evolution
10. Flesicher's Superman
11. Young Justice
12. Wolverine and the X-Men
Not Really My Thing, But OK:
13. Static Shock
14. Teen Titans/TTG!
Doesn't Hold Up, But Watchable:
15. Spider-Man (60's)
16. All of the 90's Marvel shows
17. SuperFriends
18. Fantastic Four (60's)
Flat to Bad:
19. The Batman
Please Kill Me, Now:
20. Ultimate Spider-Man
21. Iron Man: Armored Adventures
Kickass honorable mention:
The Tick
You know, I REALLY need to give The Tick a re-watch one of these days to see how it holds up.
I've never seen the live action one and I haven't seen the animated show in a dog's age. I do remember enjoying it quite a bit.
It's a fun show, but it has been ages since I've seen. Disney really should do a complete series set already, especially now that they own Marvel.
Even then, I don't think that they would have cared about the episode with the Mole Man-like villain.
Excellent:
1. The Spectacular Spider-Man
2. Batman: The Animated Series
3. Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
Great:
4. Batman: The Brave & the Bold
5. Young Justice
Generally Good:
6. X-Men: Evolution
7. Justice League
8. Wolverine and the X-Men
Not Really My Thing, But OK:
9. Batman Beyond
10. Superman - TAS
11. Static Shock
12. Teen Titans/TTG!
Doesn't Hold Up, But Watchable:
13. Spider-Man (60's)
14. All of the 90's Marvel shows
15. SuperFriends
Flat to Bad:
16. Fantastic Four (60's)
17. The Batman
18. The New Fantastic Four
Please Kill Me, Now:
19. Ultimate Spider-Man
20. Iron Man: Armored Adventures
21. Avengers Assemble
22. Hulk - Agents of SMASH
I prefer AOSTH to SatAM.
I know I have already said that I liked Duck Dodgers more than any other Looney Tunes spinoff but I am sure I've never mentioned that Taz-Mania was my second favorite (well, unless Pinky & The Brain somehow counted.) I liked both DD and TM a lot more than Tiny Toons Adventures and (again, if this type of show counts,) Animaniacs. I'd rank them:
5. Tiny Toons Adventures
4. Animaniacs
3. Taz-Mania
2. Pinky & The Brain
1. Duck Dodgers In The 24th And 1 Half Century
I actually remember Taz and PaTB being pretty close in quality. Again, it's been forever since I've seen any of these though. I need to start really watching non-action shows again and this would be a good way to kick that off, if possible.
I was never much for Taz-Mania, but Taz has always been my least favorite of the big Looney Tunes characters.
Anyway, I don't really like Tina Belcher that much. I think she's kind of a flat and wishy-washy character. I kind of get why she has such a following, because of her social awkwardness and all, but she's still among my least favorite characters on Bob's Burgers.
I used to like Tina the most out of all the kids, but she (and most of the cast, honestly) has become more grating to me in the the last few seasons. I'll say that Gene has always been my least favorite character on the show, though.
If I were to rank the LT spinoffs I like:
5. The Looney Tunes Show
4. Animaniacs
3. Tiny Toon Adventures
2. Pinky & the Brain
1. Duck Dodgers
Like Avaitor, I was never really big on Taz-Mania, or the character in general.
Taz is not a favorite myself (almost goes without saying due to how many great Looney Tunes there are :bleh:) but I remember the show being pretty well put together, while Animaniacs and Tiny Toons actually pretty much just bored me outside of a few moments.
I've barely watched The Looney Tunes Show so I didn't think about ranking it at all.
Also, I think Sylvester & Tweety Show is the absolute worst out of all the LT spinoffs. That shit used to bore me to death every Saturday. But maybe there are some even worse offenders that I have repressed memories of. :sly:
Nobody's ranking Loonatics or Baby Looney Tunes?
Quote from: Foggle on March 05, 2015, 01:44:03 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 05, 2015, 01:43:13 PM
Nobody's ranking Loonatics or Baby Looney Tunes?
:whuh:
GSF doesn't even think they're the worst spin-offs, so I was curious.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 05, 2015, 01:54:28 PM
Quote from: Foggle on March 05, 2015, 01:44:03 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 05, 2015, 01:43:13 PM
Nobody's ranking Loonatics or Baby Looney Tunes?
:whuh:
GSF doesn't even think they're the worst spin-offs, so I was curious.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.us%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F11%2Fyoure_serious_futurama.gif&hash=962ba005366956a44a12c128ba748bac77c6cab5)
But yeah, Baby Looney Tunes is the worst I've seen. Thanks for exposing that repressed memory. :D It didn't seem "tear out eyes" bad just excessively boring.
This is the still the best blog post we ever made. http://animationrevelation.com/readables/?p=2750
The first comment is the best part.
Dat potato quality images though.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 15, 2012, 04:47:25 PM
Korra's better, IMO.
As for the Sonic discussion, the only animated Sonic show that did it right was the OVA, IMO. It was funny, fast, good action, and the plot was just serious and jokey enough to work. It also was the best looking with the most creative art-style and music. It's a real shame it never got a proper show since it was leagues ahead of the other Sonic shows. IMO, it just needed a better dub.
Do you still think Season 1 of Korra is better than the entirety of ATLA. (This thread used to be so much fun)
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 07, 2015, 02:30:10 AM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 15, 2012, 04:47:25 PM
Korra's better, IMO.
As for the Sonic discussion, the only animated Sonic show that did it right was the OVA, IMO. It was funny, fast, good action, and the plot was just serious and jokey enough to work. It also was the best looking with the most creative art-style and music. It's a real shame it never got a proper show since it was leagues ahead of the other Sonic shows. IMO, it just needed a better dub.
Do you still think Season 1 of Korra is better than the entirety of ATLA. (This thread used to be so much fun)
Nope.
To be fair, I thought the same until a rewatch or two. I was so impressed by the pacing/total lack of filler.
I know that some people on here aren't big on Ghibli or Pixar. But personally, I don't care for is Aardman.
I still like the original Wallace & Gromit shorts, but the rest of their oeuvre doesn't seem to click with me, not even Chicken Run anymore. Though, I should give Arthur Christmas a try sometime.
Never seen an Aardman production I didn't like.
Quote from: Cartoon X on August 11, 2015, 01:19:13 PM
Though, I should give Arthur Christmas a try sometime.
You should. It was my favorite animated film of that year.
I mean, I do still kind of like the original Wallace & Gromit shorts, but no force on earth can allow me to finish Curse of the Were-Rabbit. None of their other stuff has been able to grab me.
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fl41lUBJsJg9TkxV28%2Fgiphy.gif&hash=8dc2e78b758da548ed5ef96fcbe0217bab12964c)
Quote from: Avaitor on November 15, 2014, 11:05:37 PM
I'm not sure if this is unpopular or not, but I want to say it-
Adventure Time and Regular Show have more than proved their worth in not just the Cartoon Network canon, but in the pantheon of quality animated programs. There's little denying that. But I truly believe that even though they're still fairly early in, Steven Universe has proven itself to be the better fantasy and mythology-based series, and Clarence the better laid-back comedy with a wide range of comedic styles.
That said, while I don't hate Uncle Grandpa, I do think that Gumball is still the superior younger-skewing comedy with a unique art style.
I wrote this over a year ago, and I wouldn't change a word of it.
I note this as I'm watching this week's Adventure Time, while I'm really just dying to get to the new Clarence instead.
I will add that Clarence>We Bare Bears, but I do also enjoy WBB.
I have a few unpopular opinions, here: http://gregxb.blogspot.com/2016/05/apocalypse-what-now-retro-review.html
I want an X-Men series that looks like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVqMHAjQrqk), or to a lesser extent, this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s0UkxFJnVo).
I don't know. As cool as the OPs are, the last time that we got a full-fledged X-Men anime, it was pretty awful.
It didn't look anything like that, as much as I wanted it to. Though the biggest issue was the atrocious writing.
But I wasn't really talking about an X-Men anime, but an animated show that has action looking as good as that. Truthfully, I don't think we'll be getting a new X-Men show in a long time, anyway. Not as long as Fox and Marvel continue to feud.
Yes, please!!
Is it unpopular to still prefer Clarence to We Bare Bears?
Because if so, then I definitely don't want to join the popular opinion.
I like both shows a lot, but I don't know which of the two is more popular with people. Might be Clarence because its been around a bit longer but I don't know.
My general opinion of WBB is that it's best when it focuses on the three interacting together. I'm less hot on the episodes when they're separated and do their own thing. It can be a really fun show, but sometimes only registers at just okay for me.
I'm in the camp that prefers Clarence myself. I enjoy WBB a good deal too, though.
I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but there's been something that I've been thinking about for a while-
I think we're no longer in an age where Batman: TAS is a major influence. Action cartoons aren't really being made anymore, and when they are, they feel closer to Marvel's recent stuff, Teen Titans Go! or even 80's cartoons rather than something like the DCAU or Avatar. It already feels like Korra was from a different period, and a lot of the shows that were hot when it premiered are still on!
We're still feeling the importance of The Simpsons, especially as adult animation is appreciating character again, while the reliance on creators and showrunners for the Nicktoons is still going strong. But we're already pretty far removed from what Batman, Gargoyles, Avatar etc were doing.
I'm of the opinion that those who grew up on BTAS, Gargoyles, Avatar (the good one), and other such cartoons, did not go into animation but to other mediums. It certainly shows in what is being made nowadays.
Sooner or later action animation will have a major comeback. Don't know where it will spring off of, might be Netflix but I don't think this action drought will last forever.
1.I could never get into Family Guy. Not even the first 3 seasons. Honestly, the only appeal I saw in it was sneaking in to watch it when I wasn't allowed to watch it. Honestly though, the show never did much for me. What I saw was humor that was shocking for the sake of being shocking and animation that was pretty stiff and sometimes even lazy. I don't hate the show, but I never really liked it and it kind of scared me off of watching Adult Animation (Anime, Simpsons, and Futurama aside)
2.I could never get into South Park. Like Family Guy, I wasn't allowed to watch it and when I snuck in some episodes, it was just shocking for the sake of it.
3.Stanley is my favorite show created by Jim Jinkins. Most people seem to say Doug was their favorite but that show never made much of an impact on me. Not a bad show and it does have some awesome moments (I still laugh at the one where Doug said he broke Mr. Dinks grill), but it was never really a favorite for me. Stanley on the other hand was an all time favorite and a show that I adored. It was one of the standouts of Playhouse Disney's lineup during that time and was very informative. As an animal lover, I loved seeing the different animals in the show brought to you by The Great Big Book of Everything. The characters were likable and it was relaxing and funny. And that theme song is amazing. Its so nostalgic and catchy. I could go on about this show for hours, but I will stop here. This is my favorite show made by Jim Jinkins and one that I enjoy coming back to from time to time.
4.I never got into the Disney Channels 2000s Original Animated Series. For me, the animated series created for Disney Channel in the 2000s were stuff I felt meh towards. During this time, Disney cartoons were now being made for Disney Channel and not broadcast TV starting with Proud Family in September 2001. Out of all of them, the only ones I enjoyed were Phineas and Ferb (I enjoyed it when it first came out but I started watching it less and less until I completely stopped watching it in mid 2011), Stanley (The Playhouse Disney lineup was awesome during that time), and Lilo and Stitch: The Series (Which wasn't a favorite of mine, but I enjoyed it). The other shows just never did much for me at all (Like Kim Possible, Proud Family, Dave the Barbarian, American Dragon, Replacements, Brandy and Mr. Whiskers, and Emperors New School (Like many others, I thought the movie was a lot better)).
5.I enjoy The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog more than Sonic SatAM. While SatAM is an awesome show with great stories and fun characters, I enjoy AoStH' Looney Tunes esque feel and I feel its funnier. I always love Scratch and Grounder and them along with Robotnik makes for some great comedy. I also love the different disguises Sonic makes to fool Scratch and Grounder. While its sad that Tails gets kidnapped in a lot of the episodes, there are some where he gets his time to shine which is pretty cool. Also, I enjoy how much it feels like the Genesis games right down to the music and even some of the locations. The voice acting is very good as well and its just a fun cartoon. Honestly, AoStH is one of my favorite cartoons of all time.
I will post other unpopular opinions when I think of them.
I can kind of see where you're coming from with South Park but also I'd say that the shock value of it mostly applies to the first few seasons of the show. Even creators Trey and Matt aren't too fond of their earlier work in retrospect. That said the show's sense of humor has drastically evolved since then, mostly leaning towards social commentary and satire. Understandably that's not up everone's alley, but it's definitely not as reliant on shock value since that's nearly impossible to do in today's world overexposing way too much controversial content.
On that note, I never got the idea that South Park promoted cynicism or apathy to political causes. I've heard the "South Park teaches people not to believe in or care about anything" argument too many times to count, and it always comes from someone who sounds like they've never watched the show in their lives. The show's made many stances in the past two decades. That censorship is bad. That you shouldn't judge people by their religion but by their character. That scaring your kids away from drugs will do more damage than telling them the truth. That Hillary is awful, but Trump is even worse. If anything, the show teaches people to be skeptical, to find another answer to a question if they have issues with the ones they're given.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 22, 2018, 01:15:16 PM
I can kind of see where you're coming from with South Park but also I'd say that the shock value of it mostly applies to the first few seasons of the show. Even creators Trey and Matt aren't too fond of their earlier work in retrospect. That said the show's sense of humor has drastically evolved since then, mostly leaning towards social commentary and satire. Understandably that's not up everone's alley, but it's definitely not as reliant on shock value since that's nearly impossible to do in today's world overexposing way too much controversial content.
Admittedly, its been a while since I have seen South Park, but you do have a good point that the shock value mostly applies to those first few seasons. I do remember seeing some social commentary and satire the few times I snuck it in, but even then I got bored. The show just wasn't for me honestly.
Also, just wondering. Are you mad at me for saying that I never got into Family Guy, the fact that Doug isn't my favorite show created by Jim Jinkins, the fact that I could never get into Proud Family, Kim Possible, American Dragon, Dave the Barbarian, Emperor's New School, Brandy and Mr. Whiskers, and The Replacements, and the fact that I enjoy Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog more than SatAM (Even though I enjoy both)?
That's fair enough. As I said, I can understand South Park's brand of humor not being up everyone's alley. Just wanted to point out that it wasn't really going for cheap shock value anymore.
As for everything else, I can't personally say that I'm at all bothered by your dislike for any particular show. Aside from just being your own personal opinion, which is fine in and of itself, I happen to be indifferent to most of those shows, myself. I do remember having a thing for American Dragon at one point but even that I haven't watched in at least a decade so I couldn't possibly say how I feel about it now.
They're just your opinions, nothing wrong with having them. I like(d) some of the series you mentioned, didn't really like others. Whatever works for you.
Hey Arnold is a good show, but I'll admit that I wince a little when I see people talk about how deep it gets. Just because it acknowledges that unhappy families are a thing sometimes doesn't make it a particularly sharper or more mature than what Rugrats or many other cartoons were doing at the time.
Also, the jungle movie was just a weird idea that doesn't totally fit the show.
Hey Arnold definitely had high moments, but it's strange that people pretend the entire show was nothing but Helga on the Couch, Pigeon Man, and the Christmas special. Especially when those episodes were pretty standalone and didn't shape the show as much as they could have. Mr. Hyunh reunites with his daughter, who never appears again outside of cameos. Helga gets a therapist who completely gets her, and doesn't show up again. Sure, they were wonderful episodes, but they never snowballed into anything more and things go back to usual by the next episode.