So, recently it just sunk in for me that we're getting a BRAND NEW LIVE-ACTION RUROUNI KENSHIN MOVIE! Yeah, I know the news is really old by now, and I knew it for a long time, but its only now that I just started getting excited about it. For starters, I do think that if handled right, RK can certainly be turned into a good live-action property, even if it'll be a bit over-the-top (but I'm used to seeing that from Asian action films, and in fact I kind of like it that way, so I have no complaints there). Also, while the trailer isn't necessarily much to go buy, I really like the look of the film so far and honestly I think it can work pretty well as long as its handled by a good director and good writers.
Anyways, putting my childish fanboyism aside, I obviously didn't create this thread to talk about the movie, but instead what its based off of which is the manga. If you don't know already, Rurouni Kenshin is hands down my personal favorite manga, and while I'm certainly far from any comic-book buff, I have at least read my fair share of manga and among those RK is by far the most enjoyable and consistently good series that I have ever read, really only being rivaled by the works of Naoki Urasawa, but he covers an entirely different genre so there's really no comparisons that I can make there.
To me, aside from being Nobuhiro Watsuki's best work by far (seriously, nothing else he's done since RK can even compare to it), its also the best shonen series that I have ever read, and of course my favorite manga, period. I think what works about it is that it takes all of the right elements of a good shonen series that work well for just about any audience, and not necessarily just shonen fans, while pretty much ignoring all of the bad tropes (well, most of them, at least) that plague most shonen series. Really, though, aside from the few shonen traditions that make it clear what genre it is, I wouldn't really consider it a shonen series otherwise, but just its own kind of story that isn't really bound by any single genre. Its just a really well told tale featuring a very memorable cast of characters. Really, Yahiko and Kaoru are pretty much the only characters who will remind you that this series is in fact from Shonen Jump, and even then they are still likable characters, IMO. Yeah, I know people like to say that Yahiko is annoying and initially he kind of is but by the Kyoto arc those types of complaints are completely unfounded as he evolves from being a little brat into being a more respectable kid-figure for the younger readers to look up to. I feel that he gets a bad reputation only because he's a kid in an otherwise adult cast (once again, very irregular for a shonen series of any kind), so he stands out and people just like to harp on him for that reason alone.
Well, at any rate putting minor niggles like that aside (if you even consider it a problem, which I personally don't), the rest of the cast is undeniably good. Sanosuke is admittedly also pretty close to a typical hot-headed character trope, but even he has more to him than just sticking to that role, and he ha proven that he can take more serious and meaningful action throughout the course of the story.
My favorite characters in the series would really be a tie between Kenshin and Saito, but both for very different reasons. Kenshin is a brilliant protagonist and pretty much an example of the right way to write a tragic hero (well at least his past is tragic). The way he is set up feels very appropriate for the type of story that RK is telling, since Kenshin is a character who I feel you would only see in a series of this sort featuring a very loose interpretation of Japanese history (and of course I mean it when I say "very loose" seeing as how this series is still mostly just fantasy when you really get down to it). He's not a character who would work in a typical modern shonen series or a western super-hero themed comic, but rather he's perfectly tailored to work within the fictional story set-up that Watsuki designed for Rurouni Kenshin, as a series. He's a character that I can easily take seriously and sympathize with, yet at the same time he's also really compelling and has a very bright personality to him most of the time that would make you care about him regardless of whether he had an interesting background or not.
As for Saito, he's awesome because he's just the perfect bad-ass. Everyone has their own defining criteria of what they consider bad-ass, and for me Saito is it. Admittedly his character is a bit more narrow in terms of scope and depth than other characters in the series, but its done in such a way in which you as a reader can understand that he is completely devoted to his own ideals and doesn't really have any room for development since he is already a fully developed character from the start of his very first appearance of the series all the way up until it ends. Honestly, he doesn't need much more characterization than what he gets within his first few appearances within the Kyoto arc, because he's already a very compelling figure in the manga by that point, and it easy to get drawn into any scene that features him.
Of course, besides the main characters being great which is the most important thing to me, Rurouni Kenshin also fully delivers on the villain front, and of course it proves with both the Kyoto arc as well as the Jinchuu arc that Watsuki was more than capable of crafting a compelling story as well. So, to me, RK is a manga that delivers on all fronts, and it also help that I personally love its particular art-style. It has that aesthetic of "cool" that you might associate with some anime without every coming close to looking generic in any way. This is something that I feel most modern manga in general try to achieve but end up failing at, either because they look like everything else out there or the look just looks completely wrong in general, and even if they can nail a good look most modern manga series that go for that sort of look often forget to actually back it up with good characterization and compelling story-telling as well, so whichever way you look at it they don't compare.
Well, at any rate I'll stop my fanboy rant for now, but I felt like saying a lot since I just got back into the series again and I'm currently in the process of re-reading the manga from start to finish. I just feel that its a shame that Watsuki was never able to release another piece anywhere close to this level after this series ended. Of course, even if this was the only great thing he ever did, its still enough to make him one of my personal favorite mangaka, because it jut that damn good (and to be fair its not like his other series are necessarily bad, but they just have high standards to compare to).
Right now I'm currently in the Kyoto arc portion of the manga, and that's when shit gets REALLY good. I mean before the manga was already good, but this is when it takes a step above just being a shonen series set in the Meiji era, and instead becomes a genuinely great piece of fiction that's very loosely based on a real time period of Japan. The story gets darker, characters start showing more depth and consequently become more interesting, and for once we get more insight into the villains and how they think. I also like how the other details of this manga improve. I mean I notice stuff like the artwork and the character designs getting a little better, but more than that the way the manga is paced and how the story unfolds seems a lot better thought out that in the first few arcs, and even stuff like the fights and the action scenes have a much more intense feeling to them, where as a reader you can really sense the danger level of the battles and the advanced skills of the characters fighting in them, whereas previously the fights were typical shonen-fair, in that they were entertaining enough to look at but felt more like padding than anything else.
From what I've been re-reading of the Kyoto arc so far, its easy to see why this is still my favorite manga.
So, I just finished reading through the Kyoto arc. Honestly I feel like the anime did a perfect adaptation of this arc, and its probably the only part of the anime that holds up really well today, but I really must commend the anime staff for being so faithful (for the most part) to the story with this arc as opposed to how many liberties they took with the Tokyo arc. Having read through all of this in the manga again, I realized just how closely it got adapted, and I'm grateful for that since it really is as close to perfect as any arc in a shonen series can get. It follows all of the tried and true shonen tropes well enough, but it executes them really well and is so expertly paced that it feels as though its in a class of its own.
I think that Shishio makes a really great villain. Sure, his Darwinist outlook on life is completely shallow, but just his sheer charisma and how he uses it to become such a commanding presence really makes him one of the most interesting villains that I have ever seen a shonen series pull off. Plus, he also serves as a great antagonist to completely counter with Kenshin's character and his beliefs. I love the whole theme of how they both walked the same path as Hitokiris but came to completely different outcomes after their years of fighting and wandering. I also like how they sort of play it as a responsibility of Kenshin to have to face his successor, and in essence he is facing down the old and aging ideals of an increasingly forgotten era of Samurai, whereas for Shishio facing Kenshin is the equivalent of facing down the modern Japanese political and societal structure that he has come to hate so much. In any other shonen series it would just be a good guy and a bad guy fighting with cool looking swords and attacks and not much substance behind that, but in Rurouni Kenshin I feel that Watsuki effectively utilizes the time period (and fictional and unrealistic as its portrayal is), setting, and characters to make the whole ordeal feel like it means a whole lot more than just a simple fight to save the day until the next big villain comes along.
I guess the reason I'm praising this so much, though, is just because I'm coming out of having been disappointed by the lack of creativity and overall dullness that has plagued the shonen fighting genre for quite a few years now. I guess re-reading RK for the first time in a long while just feels like such a breath of fresh air to me, now.
Anyways, I'm now starting on the Jinchuu arc which is easily my favorite arc in the series, and that's no small feat as you can tell by my praising of the Kyoto arc. To me this arc took everything that was great about Rurouni Kenshin itself, as a series, and successfully combined all those elements into one awesome package. Perhaps my nostalgia may be getting the better of me, but I'm going to re-read it to see how well this arc really holds up.
As I was re-reading RK I just noticed this and had to post it:
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg716.imageshack.us%2Fimg716%2F1616%2Frurounikenshin123233.jpg&hash=0cb012e69c6543ea55e619f07620b750496ce3ae)
Its worth noting that Eichiro Oda was in fact one of Nobuhiro Watsuki's assistants as he was working on Rurouni Kenshin's serialization. I just find little tid-bits like that pirate logo that eventually made its way into One Piece showing up on a bomb in this scene to be a really interesting piece of trivia. ;)
I finished the Remembrance flash-back arc. To me its easily the most well-written thing that Watsuki has ever done. Its no wonder that it got special treatment and got its own OVA (Trust and Betrayal) even though the rest of the Jinchuu arc got skimped in terms of getting a proper animated adaptation.
Also, I can't believe I just noticed it, but Watsuki totally ripped off Venom's character design from the Spider-Man comics for one of the villains. :P
Well, to be fair I hear that he was a huge fan of various Marvel super hero comics so its not strange to see him take inspiration from them, but that character design is basically the manga version of Venom.
OH YEAH! Now I remember that. The first time I read that, it popped into my head. Completely forgot to bring it up again since.
Such a weird oddity.
Well, From what I've heard Watsuki himself did something similar. I recall him writing that a character design that he had helped create for a manga which he worked as an assistant on himself ended up making it into Rurouni Kenshin as an actual character. I'm not sure which manga exactly, though, but I've been noticing quite a few little nods or references to other works in Rurouni Kenshin now that I'm re-reading it. I wonder if Watsuki carried on that tradition with any of this other manga.
I'm nearing the end of the manga once again. I don't know why everybody seems to dislike the Jinchuu/Revenge arc so much. It has some pretty far-fetched plot points, I'll admit, but its honestly really entertaining and it has some of the best character moments in the entire series. Personally I think that while its inferior to the Kyoto-arc from a story standpoint, its far superior from a characterization standpoint. Kenshin's character is nearly broken by Enishi but its a really great feeling to see him snap out of his temporary emo-state (for lack of a better word for the slump he's in during the middle portion of the arc), Sanosuke manages to become a lot more bad-ass than he already was, Yahiko actually becomes pretty fucking awesome and honestly develops a lot more than any other character from that arc, Aoshi is out of his revenge-hungry douche-phase from the Kyoto arc and is actually really useful in this arc, and Saito is....well, still Saito, and personally I wouldn't have it any other way since his character is perfect just the way it is, as far as I'm concerned. :sly:
Admittedly Enishi is kind of a weaker villain that I remember him being. Putting nostalgia aside, he's pretty whiny and his obsessive love for his dead sister is actually kind of disturbing, but at the same time it IS actually still pretty easy to sympathize with him on some level, and he does still look really cool from a design stand-point. Also he should get bonus points for being the only villain to downright beat Kenshin in a fight. Even if he really isn't as strong as Shishio or the top-class swordsman from the series, he has pretty expert skills and uses a clever idea to avoid the after-affect of Kenshin's special attack. Its also worth mentioning that he flat-out would have killed Kenshin if he really wanted to when he managed to land his attack on him, but he purposely held back since of course he wanted him alive so that he could suffer instead of giving him a quick death.
Overall, though, I think the important thing is that this arc is successful enough at doing the most basic thing that any good shonen arc should do, and that's keeping me entertained. Its not some sophisticated and intelligent Urasawa-level story-telling or characterization, but its not mindless Hellsing-style action, either. Its just manga that's fun to read with a decent story and likable characters, but which just happens to personally strike a lot of the right notes with me, so I hold it in higher regard than most. Overall this is still easily my favorite shonen manga, BY FAR.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 02, 2012, 12:25:56 AMI don't know why everybody seems to dislike the Jinchuu/Revenge arc so much.
:srs:
Does that serious face mean that you're in the crowd that hates it? I honestly can't tell....
Well, at any rate I just finished reading the interval where Sanosuke gets his own mini-arc to focus on his character, and I think its awesome. Sanosuke's dad would have been an interesting recurring character had he been introduced earlier in the series. The interactions between those 2 are just priceless.
That anyone could hate it is crazy. That arc is pretty much the entire point of the series. If you hate it, then what exactly do you even like about the series?
Yeah, I agree. I mean, its pretty much the epitome of Kenshin's life choice to never kill again. I'm in the middle of re-reading his final battle with Enishi and can't help but feel that Watsuki managed to build up to this fight perfectly, with Kenshin delivering his speech about how after he was subjected to the living hell that Enishi set up he still came to the same conclusion that he had after wandering for 10 years. The best way to atone for his past crimes was basically to live the rest of his life out using his skills to fight for others, rather than to just kill himself and get it done with.
I think that the only reason people complain about this arc is just because its a more "personal" arc than the Shishio arc. That is to say that the Shishio arc could be claimed to be more epic and grander in scope in terms of what's at stake, but while that's true I like that the Jinchuu arc is much more focused in terms of expanding upon the purpose of Kenshin's character and the whole point of the series in general. Either way they are both great arcs, but I just don't see how there are people who dislike the Jinchuu arc, unless they are specifically talking about the half-assed portrayal of it in the Reflection OVA (but that doesn't even really count since it only covers the very end of that arc and nothing else about it).
Speaking of the Reflection OVA, THAT's something that I can actually jump on the hating bandwagon for. That's the exact opposite of the Jinchuu arc, in that if anything, it actually completely MISSES the point of series and completely contradicts Kenshin's character (hell, I think that EVERY character in the Reflection OVA acts disturbingly out of character). I hope that the live-action movie turns out to avoid going down that road when it comes out (and yes, I am still genuinely interested in seeing it).
Agreed. I'm glad Watsuki declared it non-canon, as it really flies in the face of the entire series.
So, I finally finished reading Rurouni Kenshin. Man, the ending can be bitter-sweet, but it also reminds me of how few shonen I have read that have proper endings like this. I feel like so many shonen series that I read either go on for so long that I lose interest in them or they just plain haven't finished yet (its usually sort of both, since I'll read a long-running series then get bored of it, but find out years later that its still running and has no hint of an ending in site), or they have endings that are just an after-thought because the creator has clearly lost interest in the series by that point and just throws out whatever crap he wants to rush the ending so that they can be done with the series as soon as possible. Togashi is a big offender of this with YYH.
Rurouni Kenshin is one of the few shonen manga which I feel is an exception to this rule and it just had a flat-out genuinely satisfying conclusion. I know that Watsuki is supposed to serialize some short RK-related thing later on for a few weeks-months later on this year, but I have no idea what its supposed to be about (its probably just some small spin-off or something of the sort based on what I've heard about it). At any rate, I know that Watsuki had originally planned a Hokkaido arc after the Jinchuu arc, and while I'm not sure if he ended the series where he did because he wanted to or because it was losing popularity (I'm not even sure if it was), I'm honestly pretty glad that it left off where it did. The final arc pretty much fulfilled the point of the series, got each character to the height of their character development, and most importantly ended things before they had the chance to drag on and have a significant drop in quality. For that reason this is probably one of the most consistently good long-running shonen manga that I have personally read, which is saying a lot.
Just for the hell of it I may go on to re-read Busou Renkin or one of Watsuki's other later works soon enough (especially since they are all far shorter than RK), just to make a direct comparison in quality to see how far off he fell in quality after this series. To be fair its hard to come up with a better shonen series than this, even for him, but still, I felt like he used up all of his creativity and great writing-skills on RK alone. None of this other series even have the same feel to them (as in I'd have sworn that they were written by a completely different mangaka). They aren't bad or anything, but they just don't even begin to compare.
I finally read volume 1 of this series after having the first two volumes for weeks. I kind of held off starting the series in favor of reading other comics. :sweat:
So, I'll start by talking about the 2nd manga book I've ever read by saying a positive I love giving about comics: I loved the pacing and how so much happened in just one volume. Annnnddddd:
-Sweet, two Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles sightings. Just getting this one out of the way.
-Interesting have Hiruma's (forgot his first name) backstory or whatever is so different from the anime and how he had a brother.
-I liked how Yahiko finally decided to really train under Karou. Why they had that wooden cannon gang show up after Sano appeared and had them attack his friends is beyond me. Also that episode was one of the worst.
-Had no clue that Karou was just 17 and Sano was 19.
-So Kenshin really doesn't scream out his attack names all the time?
-So chi gets brought up early in the manga? Didn't know Kenshin could sense chi.
-I already like Sano's introduction better here.
Also, I liked the art.
P.S. Is Bleach's Byakuya based off of the main villain in the RK 'pilot'????
The manga's basically the best version of RK out there. It has the best elements of the TV anime and the OVAs without having any of the crap from either iterations, which is to say that it doesn't have the fillers from the anime or Reflection from the OVAs.
It tells some great story arcs and has a definitive conclusion and a satisfying wrap-up to the entire story. I'd still love to see a full-on anime adaptation of the entire manga from start to finish done the right way. I mean, I loved the Kyoto arc of the original anime and the parts of the Tokyo arc that weren't filler, but the manga deserves a much more straightforward and faithful adaptation now that its been completed for well over a decade.
Yeah, I was thinking about how the manga could use a more accurate anime adaptation. I really enjoyed what I read. ;D
Read volume 3 today. Interesting differences between the manga and anime: where Kenshin first sees Aoshi, Kenshin actually fighting Han'nya at the dojo, I believe in the anime, Sano eavesdropped on the forest meeting between Kanryu and Megumi and Han'nya spotted him and chased him and Kaoru doesn't go to Kanryu's estate in the manga.
I've read the manga in it's entirety, but I put the anime on-hold after the Kyoto arc was over. Is the third season worth watching? I know that the third season is it's own storyline and has nothing to do with the manga, but what I want to know is whether it can stand on it's own or not?
Nope. Unfortunately, its all just crappy filler, so its for the best that you stopped watching after the Kyoto arc, which most fans like myself like to pretend is basically the end of the TV anime and that it never continued past that point. That's not to say that the season 3 filler is necessarily god-awful, but its so damn boring and completely misses the mark about what made this series so interesting and entertaining in the first place.
The same thing happened with the OVAs, IMO, with Trust and Betrayal being a brilliant and dark representation of Kenshin's past, while Reflection was mellodramatic crap with terribly uneven pacing and all of the characters acting completely out of character. For whatever reason it seems like outside of the manga, RK just can't get itself a decent 3rd act. :??:
I read volume 4
- Whoa at Han-nya's face. I did not know the story behind that.
- So the anime changed where Sano fights Shikijo, huh? Also, this means that Sano never got face to face with Aoshi nor was his ass easily kicked by him in Kanryu's mansion.
-How the Oniwabanshu (sp??) helped beat Kanryu was changed in the anime.
-Forgot/didn't know Kenshin hit Aoshi twice in the neck.
-Holy shit at that whole beheading thing. Don't remember that in the anime.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on October 27, 2012, 11:37:51 AM
Nope. Unfortunately, its all just crappy filler, so its for the best that you stopped watching after the Kyoto arc, which most fans like myself like to pretend is basically the end of the TV anime and that it never continued past that point. That's not to say that the season 3 filler is necessarily god-awful, but its so damn boring and completely misses the mark about what made this series so interesting and entertaining in the first place.
That's a shame. By the way, I'm curious; does Saito make an appearance in the third season?
Its been a long while since I've seen season 3, but I don't recall Saito ever appearing in the anime past the Kyoto arc.
Which is unfortunate since his role in the last third of the manga was pretty good.
So, I've been wondering if the Raijuta arc was just filler AKA not going to be in the manga because the anime made that part so filmsy...well, I read volume 5 on Saturday and there goes Raijuta. Ahhh, much better. The anime had all around stupid changes. There is also one more part that I think is just anime filler but I kind of hoping I'm wrong (no, not the pirate episodes. I already know that's filler)
I think the only other filler episodes in the Tokyo arc of the anime besides the ones that you already mentioned were those one-off episodes (like Yahiko stealing Kenshin's reverse blade, and those comedic-type episodes like the one with the sumo wrestler, as well as those 2 episodes with that teacher). The problem with the anime was that it was another one of those deals where they started adapting the material when the manga was still not that far into its story-line only because it was a really popular series, and that basically lead the anime to its inevitable doom since it had no choice but to load up on filler material to keep from catching up to the manga. Its really a miracle that it even got all of the way through the Kyoto arc, in the first place, but at least on that one note it did an excellent job of adapting that arc, IMO. It didn't make that many changes and the ones that it did make were minor and hardly affected the story that much. It also didn't get bogged down by any filler and had perfect pacing. To this day its the only part of the manga that has been faithfully and properly adapted into anime form aside from the Trust and Betrayal OVAs.
By teacher episodes you mean the one with the guy that's voiced by Steven Jay Blum that has a style called Assassin-something? Those are the episodes I was talking about. I also was wondering about the sumo and the one with Yahiko and the reverse blade.
Read volume 6 over the last few days. Sucks how the last Raijuta fight started and ended. A sneak attack with no buildup was lame and he went out like a wimp. I did go what the hell when Kenshin said he was about to do with one arm Battojutsu though.
Don't remember bomb guy at that party in the anime. Also, interesting how Kenshin does not fight Sano in the manga. That honestly actually bugs me how fan servicey some of the changes in the manga are.
And today I read Volume 7 which contains the story of my absolute favorite episode...episodes (Saito vs Kenshin) from the show. I enjoyed all the extra backstory in the manga. I love it when things are more fleshed out. I want to watch those episodes in Japanese to see if they did the dialogue better than the English version.
Anyway, love how fast things are moving along. I think the author said all 7 of these volumes have been published within one year. Well damn.
I read volume 14 yesterday.
Whoa did Saito fuck up Usui. I don't remember the uncut anime version being anything like that. I thought he just nailed him to the wall.
Aoshi vs Kenshin is A LOT A LOT A LOT A LOT better than I remember the anime version being. I remember that version being a huge disappointment where Kenshin threw books, was forced to draw his sword and then just beat him with one move.
Also, did they change the end of the Anji fight in the anime? I don't remember the three layers attack, just Sano passing out trying to tell Anji how wrong he is instead of doing that and beating him and then them having Anji watch over Sano. Idk
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 31, 2013, 06:00:14 AM
Whoa did Saito fuck up Usui. I don't remember the uncut anime version being anything like that. I thought he just nailed him to the wall.
Yeah, in the manga he cuts him in half in addition to pinning him to the wall. The thing is, manga is generally allowed to get away with a lot more than televised anime, even when it comes to shonen series.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 31, 2013, 09:37:07 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 31, 2013, 06:00:14 AM
Whoa did Saito fuck up Usui. I don't remember the uncut anime version being anything like that. I thought he just nailed him to the wall.
Yeah, in the manga he cuts him in half in addition to pinning him to the wall. The thing is, manga is generally allowed to get away with a lot more than televised anime, even when it comes to shonen series.
So shonen actually can be censored :sly:
A few more things:
I have no clue what Aoshi's problem was. Kenshin's explanation just confused me.
Did Shishio's sword have a flame on the tip when he sliced Usui's eyes....that would not make sense seeing as how it was in the past.
I started volume 17 yesterday and finished it today. I also started and finished volume 18. Both are very important RK books.
Volume 17 is the end of the Shishio battle. I thought Shishio vs Kenshin itself wasn't all that great but Shishio defeating the others wasn't too bad. Iirc, I think the battle in the manga is better. I remember Shishio's fights with each of the four being a bit longer...well except Sano. He got toasted fast in both. A few significant changes in the anime were Shishio catching Gatotsu Zero instead of blocking it and stabbing Saito with his fingers and Shishio dodged "The Secret" (I'm not spelling the final attack's real name) instead of blocking it. I thought the latter was too big of a change because Shishio blocking the first strike of the attack actually created some of the force that sucked him in.
Useless notes aside, Kyoto Epilogue is so much better in the manga, excluding seeing the Juppongatana doing their government jobs in the manga.
The beginning of volume 18 wrapped up the rest of the Kyoto Epilogue and then I finally got to see Enishi. The guy looks a bit goofy imo :D Anyway, the rest of the book was a real page turner even though it seems only the first two Comrades will hold my interest (What a twist! came to mind for the second)
Anyway, coming into this arc mostly blind is what really makes me excited about it. I got two small hints from the author in the Secret Life Of Characters and/or Free Talks and even though I love those, I decided during volume 17 that after I'm done reading it, I won't read any more of those so I can avoid spoilers.
I read volume 19 yesterday. :o Some surprising facts were shared when Kenshin finally met Enishi. Also, one fact about Kenshin's past when he was talking about was the most shocking. I am on the Rememberance chapters now. I should reread the start of them at the end of v. 19 before I go on to 20 since I kept on dosing off during reading due to lack of sleep. It was great seeing what I remember from Trust & Betrayal in its original form. I love seeing Kenshin's past getting expanded on.
Time to ask the question. How the fuck did Usui not know Gein was inside of Iwanbo? Yeah I know this is just an inconsistency but I've been wanting to say that anyway. It would be funny to see Usui freak out the first time Iwanbo walks into a room. :lol:
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 26, 2012, 12:42:56 PM
As I was re-reading RK I just noticed this and had to post it:
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg716.imageshack.us%2Fimg716%2F1616%2Frurounikenshin123233.jpg&hash=0cb012e69c6543ea55e619f07620b750496ce3ae)
Its worth noting that Eichiro Oda was in fact one of Nobuhiro Watsuki's assistants as he was working on Rurouni Kenshin's serialization. I just find little tid-bits like that pirate logo that eventually made its way into One Piece showing up on a bomb in this scene to be a really interesting piece of trivia. ;)
Damn, I'm going to love actually reading through this thread now since I've finished the series.
Same concept as with the YYH and HXH anime threads:
Tokyo Arc- 8/10 (This time I decided to just group the mini-arcs, which encompassed this entire first major part of the story, all into one because this is one of those cases where everything kind of just blends together for me, and I found each of the mini-arcs to be pretty consistent in quality, and overall this was a fun start to the series, IMO)
Kyoto Arc- 10/10 (And this is where I realized that this was the best manga I ever read; HOW the flipping hell did Watsuki even write material this good when he doesn't have the ability to do it WITH any of his other series? This guy clearly had some insane talent at one point in his career that he apparently lost after this series was done; I mean, holy crap is this an amazingly good arc)
Remembrance- 11/10 (Holy mother of GOD is this some amazing freaking writing; Again, HOW did Watsuki just lose all of his talent after this series was done? I mean, seriously, this goes leaps and bounds beyond what anyone would expect of a shonen series, and this single story is honestly my favorite part of the entire manga, to be honest; its a very classic-style tragedy, yet its so carefully written and so beautifully conveyed in this manga)
Revenge- 9/10 (This used to be my favorite arc, but I have come to prefer the Kyoto arc on re-reads; on the whole, though, this is still a freaking amazing arc, and definitely a worthy conclusion to my personal favorite manga of all time)
Before you say anything, just remember that RK is my favorite manga next to Monster.
Tokyo Arc- 9/10
There is no better way to start this series. Every character is introduced through short vignette arcs that range from serious to comical and give us every side of the main characters, some side characters, and some villains. It's highly entertaining to read and VERY welcoming to newcomers as the best place to start.
Kyoto Arc- 10/10
This is when it goes from being excellent to being a classic. Every character is put to the test from hero to villain, certain characters are not as weak or as strong as you originally thought (in more than one way), and the central plot is basically centered on why Kenshin couldn't keep being the Hitokiri Battousai any more and why it probably is a good thing that history would move on from people like Shishio who emphasized exactly the result of where such a life leads you. I consider the ending of this arc and Shishio's defeat one of the high points in shonen period showing you who Shishio's biggest enemy really was.
Remembrance Arc- 10/10
There's not much to say if you've read it. This is not the sort of thing you see in shonen much anymore (IE; weight) where Kenshin's life completely and utterly fails him and he has to struggle with building a new one.
Revenge Arc- 10/10
This is the culmination of everything mentioned before. We've seen characters erasing their past, using it as a weapon, putting it on a pedestal, deriding it, regretting it, idealizing it, throwing it away, and absorbing it. The Revenge arc is about accepting the past for what it is and keeping it with you as you move toward the future. The good, the bad, everything you missed, and everything you might not like. It's part of who you are, and you will always carry it with you, from life to death and beyond. Einishi might not be as good a villain as Shishio, but he doesn't need to be because he's not the villain but a misguided bad guy. The real villain died with Shishio when it burned itself out in pure hatred and malice; Einishi is the ghost of the past that can never be defeated or conquered, it can't be reasoned with or brushed aside. It must be confronted face on for what it is, and it must not be allowed to roam free let it takeover the present, it must be faced and understood, but it can never really be killed or else you become like Seta Soujiro was. And as we learned in the Kyoto arc, that is not something anyone wants. On that aspect, the Revenge arc is probably the best arc in any shonen period to me.
So yeah, pretty straightforward, huh? :D
I'm not finished with the manga yet, but I see that I have A LOT of great stuff to look forward to! ;D
Oh yeah, I was blown away while reading it. I enjoyed the anime (well, most of it), but the manga just did everything so much better and is easily one of the most well crafted works out there.
I watched the Tokyo arc in the anime, and compared to the manga, it fell really, really flat to me, baring the stuff involving Saito serving as a prelude to the Kyoto arc (Kenshin v. Saito was a fantastic fight, truly. :)). I'm not going to watch the Kyoto arc in the anime until I finish it in the manga, but I hope it's better adapted than the Tokyo arc stories were and has less filler episodes.
Tokyo really was much better in the manga, I'm not really sure why they stuffed the filler in the anime like that.
I hope one day they do another anime, though disappointingly I know it won't have Freckles as the theme song which would be a massive step down. :'(
Quote from: Cartoon X on August 12, 2013, 11:42:10 PM
I watched the Tokyo arc in the anime, and compared to the manga, it fell really, really flat to me, baring the stuff involving Saito serving as a prelude to the Kyoto arc (Kenshin v. Saito was a fantastic fight, truly. :)). I'm not going to watch the Kyoto arc in the anime until I finish it in the manga, but I hope it's better adapted than the Tokyo arc stories were and has less filler episodes.
I'm in the minority on this one, but I honestly felt that the Kyoto arc was made even better in the anime than it was in the manga. Its still an excellent story, either way, but the anime doesn't change anything of significance up, while also having perfect pacing, excellent music, and terrific animation for the best fight scenes. There is no filler in it whatsoever, and I found that certain fights were made even more intense in the anime version. That's just my opinion, though.
I agree that it's a pretty good adaption, but it's really the only part of the anime I feel is up to par with the manga. It's still worth watching, but it just doesn't stack up as a whole to me.
But not adapting the Revenge arc is unforgivable. Whenever I hear people go on about "I saw the RK anime it wasn't that good! Why is is considered a classic?!" it gets a bit annoying. You're not getting the full story if you just watch the anime.
Sounds like I really need to read Rurouni Kenshin. I kind of like the TV series, but I love Trust & Betrayal. If the manga's even better than that... damn.
Quote from: Foggle on August 13, 2013, 01:44:22 AM
Sounds like I really need to read Rurouni Kenshin. I kind of like the TV series, but I love Trust & Betrayal. If the manga's even better than that... damn.
Trust and Betrayal is basically the anime adaptation of the Remembrance arc, but while I love that OVA/movie, I find the manga version to be a bit superior due to some additional story content that was cut for time in the anime version, and also because of those insiteful intermissions in which the time flashes forward to the present and you have the regular RK characters reflecting on the events of Kenshin's past (since, in the manga its more interconnected into the story of the Revenge arc). On that end, whereas you only got to see Enishi as Tomoe's bratty little brother in the OVA, you get to see him as fully grown bad-ass ready to seek his vengeance on Kenshin in the manga (there is also the Reflection OVA, but the less said about that, the better).
Yeah, the manga is definitely the best version of the Rurouni Kenshin story-line, and easily the greatest thing that has EVER come out of WSJ, in its entire history. It's basically the single greatest shonen series ever written.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 13, 2013, 01:50:51 AM
Yeah, the manga is definitely the best version of the Rurouni Kenshin story-line, and easily the greatest thing that has EVER come out of WSJ, in its entire history. It's basically the single greatest shonen series ever written.
Better than JoJo's and Otokojuku? Oh my. :SHOCK:
I still need to get through the Tokyo arc (Should I just finish the rest of it through the manga?). I have the first 3 volumes of the Kyoto arc via the Viz Big Omnibus, and I love what I've seen/read of it.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 12, 2013, 11:57:50 PM
Tokyo really was much better in the manga, I'm not really sure why they stuffed the filler in the anime like that.
I hope one day they do another anime, though disappointingly I know it won't have Freckles as the theme song which would be a massive step down. :'(
It also wouldn't have Heart of Sword and 1/3 Junjou na Kanjou.
Heart of Sword is basically the best song from the Rurouni Kenshin anime, and the that I feel fits the series the best.
For what it is, Freckles is a pretty amusing theme, though certainly not one of my favorites.
I do really love the OST to the anime, though. It has the right mix of suitably somber and reserved themes, while also playing out the intense and epic sounding tunes when the time calls for it. That music that was playing when Kenshin was fighting Soujiro....man was that some awesome stuff. :thumbup:
Tokyo arc- 8/10 - I love the little fights Kenshin and crew get into here. Honestly the first or second fight Kenshin had in the entire series is probably my favorite due to how I loved how it was drawn. The one vs many fights are so much better in the manga. Also, the Aoshi arc is damn good. For Sano and Yahiko, I thought this was the best instance of them helping out Kenshin. It didn't feel forced, out of place or anything. Hell, this also might be the only time where all 3 of them work as a team in the entire series (they get split up in the mansion though and it's one on one style like how they pretty much always fight). All headlined but a villain that's cruel yet deeply cares about his team. Jeez, I almost bumped this up to a 9. Oh, and in the anime, this arc was the first time I've seen an animated series openly talk about drug use and suicide. The Toonami cut didn't really hold back. Aoshi arc gets a 9 from me on its own.
Kyoto arc - 10/10 - Kenshin gains so much in this arc, Saito is used the best here, I love the main villain group and the fights and story are great.
Remembrance - 9/10 - Damn, ek makes me want to reread this. I'm not sure what to say about it myself.
Jinchu - 8/10 - A very necessary arc but a bit too disjointed. Well by disjointed I mean the secondary characters weren't used well. Especially Aoshi. He killed one important villain and figured out Kaoru's corspe was a fake but that's about it. This all happened because the arc was pretty much just for Kenshin and about him moving on from the most tragic part of his life but I wish Watsuki found a way for everyone else to have a decent role here. Ok, not as bad as I make it sound but still not enough.
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 13, 2013, 01:36:40 PM
Jinchu - 8/10 - A very necessary arc but a bit too disjointed. Well by disjointed I mean the secondary characters weren't used well. Especially Aoshi. He killed one important villain and figured out Kaoru's corspe was a fake but that's about it. This all happened because the arc was pretty much just for Kenshin and about him moving on from the most tragic part of his life but I wish Watsuki found a way for everyone else to have a decent role here. Ok, not as bad as I make it sound but still not enough.
I completely disagree. You totally missed the point of Aoshi's character development. You just look at his actions but not his actual character. First off, going out of his way to find out Kaoru's location was a big step for his character. Previously he had really gone off the deep end when he had lost his team in the Tokyo arc, and had been so consumed with wanting to defeat Kenshin to honor them that not only did he cause them trouble, but he ended up regrettably turning on his own people, and even nearly killed his old master. A big running theme of this arc is leaving the past as it is and moving forward with your life. On that end, Aoshi's character gets plenty of development in that regard. That line he says about having an ordinary future as a shopkeeper or such not being such a bad thing is a moment you see just how far his character has come from what he used to be. You are focusing on the wrong things. Killing off one guy and finding Kaoru's location were what he did in the arc (which by the way IS a pretty big freaking deal, so I don't know how you have a "that's it?" attitude towards a character accomplishing a pivotal plot point), but finishing his character development was the main point of Watsuki including him in the arc in the first place.
As for Yahiko, this was a big coming of age character arc for him. I don't mean just in terms of getting stronger, but in terms of taking on more responsibility as well. This was the point where he finally realized that he didn't just want to be seen as the kid who hangs out with Kenshin from time to time. He wanted to legitimately fight alongside him in the same way that Sanosuke did. This was where he finally stepped up for himself and told Kaoru to but the bullshit aside and progress his training to get him to a level in which he could actually be more useful (it was heavily implied that she was just keeping his training going slow, but that he was talented enough to progress his training at a much faster rate). He also has a great character moment when he shows his courage and leadership when he got a bunch of police officers to help him defend the town and stall for everyone to escape when one of Enishi's minions went on a rampage.
And did you just forget about Sanosuke getting an entire mini-arc all to himself? The point of that arc was not only to tie-up loose ends with his character's past regarding his family, but it was also a way for him to realize that he needed to be there for others who cared about him, regardless of any problems he had with them. On that end, it was his redemption for initially abandoning his family to fight in a war, when he looked down on his father for just being a "lowly farmer" when he believed that they should be helping in the war effort. On that note, in this portion he had just abandoned Kenshin because he was tired of him sulking over Kaoru's death, and was furious that he couldn't get Kenshin to snap back into being like his normal self, not really taking the time to consider the other person's point of view. Overcoming that character flaw of his was the point of Sanosuke's own personal segment of the arc.
You're saying that the Revenge arc (or Jinchuu arc, with 2 u's, BTW) didn't give any other characters aside from Kenshin a chance to shine, but clearly that's untrue if you look at all of the development that the other characters got in this arc.
I just really liked everything about the Revenge arc. It wasn't as epic or explosive as Kyoto, but it wasn't trying to be. It wraps everything up perfectly.
Also, I do like Freckles the most of all Kenshin's themes. It's like its Smile Bomb to me.
Quote from: Foggle on August 13, 2013, 01:44:22 AM
Sounds like I really need to read Rurouni Kenshin. I kind of like the TV series, but I love Trust & Betrayal. If the manga's even better than that... damn.
Read the manga.
Quote from: Rynnec on August 13, 2013, 03:58:28 AM
I still need to get through the Tokyo arc (Should I just finish the rest of it through the manga?).
Read the manga.
Yes Avaitor, read the manga.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 13, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Yes Avaitor, read the manga.
I read it like 3 years ago. I LOVED it. Top 5 manga for sure.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 13, 2013, 08:14:48 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 13, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Yes Avaitor, read the manga.
I read it like 3 years ago. I LOVED it. Top 5 manga for sure.
:thumbup:
Just covering my bases, glad to see another fan!
Meh, I said not enough chances to shine, not none. Pay attention.
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 14, 2013, 12:55:31 AM
Meh, I said not enough chances to shine, not none. Pay attention.
And yet you're still full of shit. :thinkin:
Go blow a cactus.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 14, 2013, 01:01:00 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on August 14, 2013, 12:55:31 AM
Meh, I said not enough chances to shine, not none. Pay attention.
And yet you're still full of shit. :thinkin:
Go blow a cactus.
I don't want your ex.
We can all agree that the Raijuta arc is the series' worst, right? It's the only part of the manga that I did not like.
If you're strong you live and if you're weak you die. That's been in my head for at least 2 weeks now, and I can't believe I haven't posted in this thread at all since I've been here.
It's been so long since I've actually watched or read this, so going off of memory will do no good in terms of rating, but once I get around to it ratings will definitely be coming.
What I can bring up at the moment, though, is that Kenshin is the best protagonist in shonen, and it sucks that no one can/will follow. I understand that shonen is aimed at teens and whatnot, but my goodness, you'd think people would understand the success of this series and try having adults be your main protagonist for a change.
I do remember liking all the characters except Sano, and even then, I'd say he's better than the rest of your average hot heads in shonen. I definitely have to read the series again, but I think it was the anime that made me not care much for his character. It'll come back to me eventually.
As for my favorite character, that's a tough one because I like Kenshin, Hiko, Aoshi, Saito, Soujiro, and Shishio equally. Speaking of Shishio, just thinking about the anime, I'm not entirely sure if anyone else could voice him outside of Steve Blum because his voice just fits him perfectly. I'm trying to think of v/a's now and place them as Shishio, and trying to hear this in my head just don't sound right at all. I can't even picture the great Crispin Freeman's voice on him and his voice usually sounds great on any character that's a badass.
Quote from: Grave on November 14, 2013, 05:23:54 PM
I understand that shonen is aimed at teens and whatnot, but my goodness, you'd think people would understand the success of this series and try having adults be your main protagonist for a change.
Toriko is 25, and all the other main characters are in their mid-20's as well. :P
Quote from: Cartoon X on November 14, 2013, 05:37:28 PM
Quote from: Grave on November 14, 2013, 05:23:54 PM
I understand that shonen is aimed at teens and whatnot, but my goodness, you'd think people would understand the success of this series and try having adults be your main protagonist for a change.
Toriko is 25, and all the other main characters are in their mid-20's as well. :P
You don't say
There's definitely something that's keeping me from even bothering to check that series out. What is this character like? If he's anything like a Goku clone I might've just answered why I haven't bothered with it.
I believe that Grave is referring more to the tone of the character rather than just their age alone. Toriko is a mostly lighthearted series, and while the character is certainly not childish from what I've read of the manga, he's also not the same breed of character as someone like Kenshin, who aside from being an adult character, also encompasses many adult themes, like regret and atonement. Ironically, Kenshin's idealistic nature in his mid-teens (yes, he was the same age as most shounen protagonists when he was the Hitokiri) is portrayed in a negative light, as that's what lead him down the dark path that he initially chose. As an adult he bears a lot of weight for his past sins, but he also has learned to move on with his life and has long since stopped living in the past. He's certainly not proud of the things that he did in his youth, but because of that he has a hard-earned wisdom about life that's really refreshing for a shounen protagonist to have. And, rather than be a mopey rain-cloud type character, Watsuki does a smart thing by still making him traditionally good natured and optimistic like most shounen characters. It's just that Kenshin actually has the substance as a character who has experienced adulthood to back it up without coming off as an annoying little prick, unlike most teenage shounen protagonists.
That's why people who want a series focused on the Hitokiri Battousai are missing the point of the character. Kenshin is one of the best shonen protagonists because he was already there and he grew up from that. The man at the end of the Revenge Arc is a much better person than the kid before the war.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 14, 2013, 06:10:22 PM
I believe that Grave is referring more to the tone of the character rather than just their age alone. Toriko is a mostly lighthearted series, and while the character is certainly not childish from what I've read of the manga, he's also not the same breed of character as someone like Kenshin, who aside from being an adult character, also encompasses many adult themes, like regret and atonement. Ironically, Kenshin's idealistic nature in his mid-teens (yes, he was the same age as most shounen protagonists when he was the Hitokiri) is portrayed in a negative light, as that's what lead him down the dark path that he initially chose. As an adult he bears a lot of weight for his past sins, but he also has learned to move on with his life and has long since stopped living in the past. He's certainly not proud of the things that he did in his youth, but because of that he has a hard-earned wisdom about life that's really refreshing for a shounen protagonist to have. And, rather than be a mopey rain-cloud type character, Watsuki does a smart thing by still making him traditionally good natured and optimistic like most shounen characters. It's just that Kenshin actually has the substance as a character who has experienced adulthood to back it up without coming off as an annoying little prick, unlike most teenage shounen protagonists.
Quote from: Spark of SpiritThat's why people who want a series focused on the Hitokiri Battousai are missing the point of the character. Kenshin is one of the best shonen protagonists because he was already there and he grew up from that. The man at the end of the Revenge Arc is a much better person than the kid before the war.
Even though it came out as I meant age alone, that was not my intent. Both these posts are spot on. While I don't mind seeing what these characters are going through and all, it's just that at this time and age (with my tolerance level being at an all time low), I really don't want to see what characters are going through (at least not so many series at the same time), whereas I'd much rather see how they're coping with the outcome of they're choices and whatnot.
Quote from: Grave on November 14, 2013, 05:51:42 PM
There's definitely something that's keeping me from even bothering to check that series out. What is this character like? If he's anything like a Goku clone I might've just answered why I haven't bothered with it.
Toriko has his goofy side, though it's seen less and less as the series goes on. Komatsu and Sunny are usually delegated comic relief, but Komatsu is pretty likable and Sunny doesn't appear in the story too much. Toriko's always perfectly serious in fights and dangerous situations, anyway, and he's definitely not naive and doesn't spout crap about friendship every two seconds like other shonen protagonists, so he's not that much like most Goku clones. I actually think the series would appeal to you, because the manga has a lot of brutal, bloody fights and "badass" characters, but at the same time I don't know if the humor/comedic bits would be a turn off or not.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 14, 2013, 06:10:22 PM
I believe that Grave is referring more to the tone of the character rather than just their age alone. Toriko is a mostly lighthearted series, and while the character is certainly not childish from what I've read of the manga, he's also not the same breed of character as someone like Kenshin, who aside from being an adult character, also encompasses many adult themes, like regret and atonement.
Yes, this is true. Toriko is certainly not as complicated and rounded as a character like Kenshin, and in that way he's not as "adult" as that character even though he technically is one. Grave, if that's what you are referring to/looking for, you won't find it in Toriko. If you're looking for just a fun, action-packed adventure series that doesn't annoy you with "shonen-iness," then by all means you should give it a shot, though.
Quote from: Grave on November 14, 2013, 06:36:17 PM
Even though it came out as I meant age alone, that was not my intent. Both these posts are spot on. While I don't mind seeing what these characters are going through and all, it's just that at this time and age (with my tolerance level being at an all time low), I really don't want to see what characters are going through (at least not so many series at the same time), whereas I'd much rather see how they're coping with the outcome of they're choices and whatnot.
Toriko, being an adult and experienced professional gourmet hunter for several years, is well beyond the point of learning the ropes/maturing, so you won't be bothered by stuff of that nature. He does grow as a character, but not in the kind of overt, obvious ways Naruto or Ichigo does. Anyway, the real point of
Toriko is just to have fun with it, and the story and characters are not "serious" in the same way other shonen manga are. It's more like
Jojo level seriousness, where the biggest draw is the action and badassery of it all and not really the story itself (not saying
Jojo doesn't have great story too, but c'mon, we all know what that it's over the top stylish action is what makes it so awesome).
Back on
Kenshin related discussion, I just finished the Kyoto arc yesterday, and yes, I loved it, though I was wishing for the battle for Kyoto itself to have lasted longer than it did, rather than just having Kenshin and company challenge Shishio and the ten swords in a series of battles, but the battles were so good that I soon didn't mind.
Two minor things bugged me though, and they are minor because they have nothing significant to do with the plot, but still left me confused. First off is what the hell was the point of Iwanbo? You can take him out of the whole thing and it wouldn't have affected anything, since he basically just ran away from his fight with the Oniwabanshu after Kamatari and Henya were defeated. Watsuki's comments in the volume (I forget which one, specifically) make me believe that
ten swords were maybe too many for Watsuki to write effectively, and Iwanbo was probably the biggest casualty of that fact. Again, it doesn't hurt/affect the plot or anything, but a wasted character always makes me scratch my head, so that's why I bring it up.
The bigger thing that bugged me is WHY DID SAITO ANNOUNCE HIS "SNEAK" ATTACK ON SHISHIO? I mean seriously, no one expected him to make it to Shishio, and everyone was preoccupied with the battle, so if he just stayed quiet he would have caught him more totally off guard than he ended up doing. That's like, basic sneak attaching 101, and Saito of all characters should have known better than to announce his presence like that. That just didn't make sense to me, but since that and Iwanbo are the only two real headscratchers I got from the arc, I can forgive it.
Overall I still loved it, though again I wish the final battles were organized a little less straightforwardly than they were, but I would call it one of my favorite story arcs, though how high is still up for debate (especially since the Golden Age arc from
Berserk and the Balbadd arc from
Magi have also shot themselves high up on there). I look forward to reading the remainder of the series, which, if I'm to understand, is the best parts of it, and once I get some stuff off of my backlog I'll try watching the Kyoto arc in the anime as well.
Iwanbo was a coward and Saito is cocky (but honorable) is about all I can say.
Shishio's men had all sorts of faults and were on the deep-end of many sinful natures all different from each other. It only stands to reason one would be a cowardly backstabber with no guts. Thankfully Watsuki didn't linger on that, because I always hate lingering on cowardly villains.
Saito changes a lot from how he was in the war, too. If anything, he becomes more honorable as the series goes along. Though he thinks he has no limits or concerns he actually does have a sense of justice and strays from cowardly moves. I don't think the Saito from series end is the same as the one we first meet in the Tokyo arc. But I don't want to spoil anything.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 14, 2013, 07:02:23 PM
Iwanbo was a coward and Saito is cocky (but honorable) is about all I can say.
...Iwanbo had like no character set up other than he was stupid, though, so the whole cowardly thing wasn't really well done in that regard. It's not like he "backstabbed" anyone either, since he just left because even he could tell he was outnumbered and had no chance of victory. Really, the "character" was just kinda pointless, and you can remove him from the story, which is why I was wondering why he was even there in the first place.
And about Saito...I dunno, it seemed out of character for him to just announce he was there when he could have taken out Shishio totally off guard. I guess you can attribute it to honor or cockiness, but it seemed like an uncharacteristically dumb thing to do.
I didn't mean he was a backstabber, just that he was the type to have no honor. To be fair, most people who are like that don't have much of a character either. ;) But I don't think it would have mattered much if he fleshed him out or not.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 14, 2013, 07:14:18 PM
I didn't mean he was a backstabber, just that he was the type to have no honor. To be fair, most people who are like that don't have much of a character either. ;)
Sir Crocodile would beg to differ. :D
I get what you're saying, though. It's a trivial thing in the grand scheme of things, anyway.
Aaaaannddd I just finished reading volume 18.
...
Yeah, so I wasn't expecting that twist with Iwanbo. Minor issue, resolved! :sweat:
It's so badass when Saito announces his attack in the anime. That's all I got to say about that.
Edit: Yeah, that twist shocked me. I have no clue why Usui didn't notice that...
I had to resist the urge to address your Iwanbo comment, CX, to avoid spoilers. :P
As for Saito, he still DID catch Shishio by surprise. I read it more like he yelled out as he was ready to attack, and Shishio was clearly surprised by it. It's just that Saito had no clue that Shishio had apparently had a sneak attack pulled off on him before, by the government, with a direct blow to his forehead, which is what Saito was aiming for. So, if anything, it was more ridiculous that Shishio thought to permanently attach a metal plate to his head just in case someone tried the exact same thing again....but considering that he was actually right, maybe it's not so ridiculous.
Evil men do odd things.
Like graft guns to their hands just in case.
BTW, CX,being that you're a big One Piece fan, I was wondering if you noticed the fun little Easter Egg in one scene relatively early on in the Revenge arc.
It may also help to know that before starting One Piece, Eichiro Oda worked as an assistant to Watsuki during the serialization of Rurouni Kenshin. ;)
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 14, 2013, 10:22:28 PM
As for Saito, he still DID catch Shishio by surprise. I read it more like he yelled out as he was ready to attack, and Shishio was clearly surprised by it. It's just that Saito had no clue that Shishio had apparently had a sneak attack pulled off on him before, by the government, with a direct blow to his forehead, which is what Saito was aiming for. So, if anything, it was more ridiculous that Shishio thought to permanently attach a metal plate to his head just in case someone tried the exact same thing again....but considering that he was actually right, maybe it's not so ridiculous.
Yeah, it's true either way his attack on Shishio wouldn't have worked no matter how off guard he was, but it still seemed odd that Saito would yell out like that since it's still not a wise thing to do when you are enacting a sneak attack. Either way, though, the result would have been the same, so Watsuki writing the scene the way he did was perfectly fine the way it is, and I'm just nitpicking based on personal opinion. :D
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 15, 2013, 02:04:16 PM
BTW, CX,being that your a big One Piece fn, I was wondering if you'll notice the fun little Easter Egg in one scene relatively early on in the Revenge arc.
It may also help to know that before starting One Piece, Eichiro Oda worked as assistant to Watsuki during the serialization of Rurouni Kenshin. ;)
Yeppers, I saw that! :) Makes me wonder if Oda had gotten his first ideas for
One Piece early on in his assistant days.
I'm now finally at the "Remembrance" arc. Since I've heard everyone say that this is the best arc of the series, I can't wait to finally read it, and then finally watch the
Trust and Betrayal OVA as well.
So, now that you're done, CX, do you care to give your ratings on each arc like we did a few months back?
Yes, I'd like to see that myself! :)
Alrighty then, I'll give it a shot.
Tokyo - 8.5/10: Rurouni Kenshin starts off strong. Really, I thought the first few chapters were quite good, better than what most series can manage in their first volume. Then we get the Jin-ne stuff in volume two. Needless to say, I was impressed. The series wasted no time in jumping right into exploring Kenshin's character, and the Jin-ne stuff was a great first taste. The Oniwabanshu portion of the arc is probably my favorite part, though. Structure wise it's the classic character is blackmailed and held hostage by a villain and main protagonists have to rescue her, but the series makes it feel fresh all the same, and Kenshin's encounters with Hanya and Aoshi, and especially the resolution, was fantastic. After that was Raijuta...which I actually like, especially since I feel it was somewhat of a thematic set-up for Kyoto, but I can't deny Raijuta himself was disappointingly shallow which hurts it a little. The Sanosuke and Yahiko side-story arcs were fun breathers and good character building, so I liked them as well. Overall it was an excellent first arc with a nice, eclectic range of stories, and honestly, I believe Kenshin has the best beginning of any shonen manga I've read.
Kyoto - 9.5/10: This arc is a really good illustration of a clash of ideologies. We have Kenshin, who fights for the peace of the Meiji era, and Shishio, fighting to create an empire were only the strong survive, basically implying never ending internal conflicts at the very least. I enjoyed how most of the characters showed new layers to their personalities, and even some of the villains like Anji and Sojiro showed there was more to them than met the eye. Kenshin's struggle with his past as Hitokiri Battosai, and his eventually overcoming it, was fantastic character development and I like how it sticks in the Revenge arc. And of course lots of great moments all around like Misao and Kaoru defeating Kamagatari, Yahiko proving himself in battle, Sanosuke getting stronger to really earn Kenshin's trust in him as someone he could always rely on, Aoshi eventually realizing being the strongest wasn't what was most important, etc. All in all ti's just a really solid, well-crafted arc. I guess the only thing I was disappointed in was that I was expecting more political turmoil/public chaos than just the Great Kyoto Fire, but that's not really a problem I have with the arc than something I would have liked to see. Really, this is just a really great arc, and reason enough for people to love the series, though I like the next two arcs even more. I'll probably watch this arc in the anime sometime soon.
Remembrance - 10/10: This is, like, classic tragedy. Kenshin's whole life is shaken to the core. An idealist who believed who could use his sword for the greater good, he soon realizes the cold reality of war, and as a killer, becomes mentally scarred and corrupted. Tomoe provides him a light and she saves him from becoming someone like Shishio, but the relationship was based on pretense, and is unraveled when the harsh reality of the revolution rears his head again at him when Enishi visits. About to lose the person closest to him, Kenshin recklessly rushes to save Tomoe, and ultimately suffers tragedy when she saves his life at the cost of her own. And then he finds out the truth about her, and realizes that the only way to atone for her death is to see the rebellion through, and then never kill again. So...yeah, a classic tragedy tale, one written so effectively it can stand on it's own without even seeing the rest of the series, and is easily one of the best character backstories in any manga. Though honestly it's only 14 chapters so I'd probably just lump it as a part of the Revenge arc if I ever were to rank my favorite manga story arcs. Which reminds me, I should really watch Trust and Betrayal as soon as I can. ;)
Revenge - 10/10: This arc feels like the true culmination of the entire series. Every major character's story arc is resolved perfectly here, and Kenshin confronts the last thing he needed to face in order to stop being a rurouni - the ghosts of his past, represented by the vengeful Enishi. It might not have the scale of Kyoto, but on a character level, I found this to be the strongest arc. Kenshin can't erase his past, but he had to learn to live with it and accept it. Considering the importance one's past played in the series, with characters such as Shishio, Anji, Sojiro, Enishi, and Sanosuke among others, this is the series' main theme and it represents and deals with it flawlessly. On that level I find Kenshin as a whole the most thematically well-developed manga I've ever read aside from Monster, and really it's just a freaking entertaining series, and this arc in particular wowed the hell out of me, and has cemented the series in it's place as one of my top favorite manga.
Nice summary!
I agree with your assertions which add up to why it's my favorite shonen manga overall. Tokyo is a great starter arc, Kyoto is a great deeper arc, Remembrance is great back story, and Revenge is a great end to an already fantastic manga. Though the beginning has a slight bit of filler, it's all good, and the manga never stops rolling after that point until the ending.
So...there's a spinoff manga about Shishio coming. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-04-26/rurouni-kenshin-spinoff-manga-about-shishio-to-launch)
Not really sure what the point of this is, since we learned everything we really needed to know about Shishio in the manga and I doubt being shown more backstory about him would in any way make him more sympathetic or a better character than he already is. I know it's going to be a short little thing to tie-in with the movie, but it seems like such a waste. A manga seeing what happened to Enishi or Soujiro after their encounters with Kenshin would be much more interesting and would have some potential to take those characters to new places, unlike Shishio, since we know how his story ends. Hell, even a manga about Saito or Aoshi and the Oniwabanshu showing what they did in the revolution would be better ideas. Oh well, I guess we'll see how this turns out.
Perhaps, but I can't really complain about more Shishio. He's one of my favorite villains.
The spinoff manga will be about how Shishio and Yumi met. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-06-03/new-rurouni-kenshin-manga-to-tell-story-of-how-shishio-yumi-met/.75178) It will also show how Shishio formed the Juppongatana. The series will be two chapters long, and the first chapter will be published July 4th.
Okay, that does sound pretty interesting. Should be a fun read.
It has my interest. Let's see if Watsuki still has any good stories left in him.
That sounds pretty cool. I'd read it.
Sounds like a good idea.
Viz will publish the first chapter of the Shishio spinoff in next week's issue of the U.S. Shonen Jump. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-07-07/viz-shonen-jump-to-publish-rurouni-kenshin-shishio-spinoff/.76416)
Nice to see that they still treat one of their best licensed manga nicely by staying on top of new material released for it, as miniscule as it may be.
Well, they did publish all of Restoration in the U.S. Jump too, so this wasn't too much of surprise to me (plus, this spinoff is only two chapters long anyway).
Hence why I said that they are treating the license well. Most companies wouldn't bother to pay attention to minor content like this, especially for a series that is long finished and, while popular in its prime days, is nowhere near as profitable as juggernaut properties like Dragon Ball or One Piece.
Top 10 Fights:
10. Aoshi vs. Gein
9. Yahiko vs. Hyogo
8. Aoshi vs. Okina
7. Sanosuke vs. Anji
6. Saito vs. Usui
5. Kenshin vs. Enishi (both fights)
4. Kenshin vs. The Yaminobu
3. Kenshin vs. Saito (anime)
2. Kenshin/Sanosuke/Saito/Aoshi vs. Shishio
1. Kenshin vs. Soujiro
I can explain my choices:
Aoshi vs Gein was just really well done, and a great way for the former to complete his character arc, whereas his fight with Okina was a great personal struggle for him and really intense (and also really underrated). Both of his fights with Kenshin were also great, but I honestly just felt that his other two solo fights were stronger and less predictable.
Sanosuke's fight with Anji was also very personal, and Anji was also an underrated character who had a good theme going for him and that tied in with Sanosuke's. Their fight addressed that, and was also "technically" great thanks to some very clever use of strategy, the way Sanosuke blocks Anji's best attack being particularly memorable.
Yahiko gets a lot more flak than he deserves from fans just because he's a kid, but I've always liked him as a character, and no one can deny how great his fight is where he shows his leadership ability and gets several police officers to help him hold off an enemy much tougher than him and save tons of people in the process.
Saito's fight with Usui really shows more layers to his character. As someone who was on the losing side of the war leading into the Meiji Era, you would expect him to be all for Shishio's cause to overthrow the government, but Saito isn't that petty. He can adapt and accept the new era, and that's why he prevails against a guy who can't seem to get over his own personal past. Also, the fight is just so bad-ass. His fight with Kenshin, particularly in the anime, is a thing of beauty. You learn so much about each character through visuals alone, and the dialogue merely only complements the intensity of the short but memorable fight.
I'm sort of cheating with #5, but I consider both fights to be essential. Kenshin's conflict with Enishi is easily his most personal, and their first fight is brilliant in just how intense and unpredictable it is, while the second is a great capper to both of their character arcs. While I don't get quite the same emotional impact from them as I do from the fights ranked above it, I do still place it in my top 5 for a reason.
My #4 choice has more to do with story and character than the actual fight itself. The ending of this fight means so much. It is the tragedy and emotional core to Kenshin's character, and perhaps more than any other fight delivers the strongest emotional punch to my gut. It's so iconic for a damn good reason.
The battle with Shishio is a classic, plain and simple. Kenshin and three people who were formerly his enemies working together to take down a common foe only adds to that. On a "technical" level, in terms of strategy, iconic scenes, "oh shit" moments, and thematically relating to and closing the conflict of the arc, it's arguably the best in the series, and all against a villain who can't even sustain a fight for more than 15 minutes. Brilliant stuff.
Now as for my #1 choice, it's my personal favorite because it represents what the entire series is about at its core. You may feel that the fights with Shishio and Enishi are more thematically tied to the theme of the series, but I'd argue that they are more tied to Kenshin's character arc and his own personal past. However, as a whole, RK is about not just the past, but moving forward from it. Soujiro is far younger than Kenshin and of a new generation. He represents the future. Shishio has corrupted him to believe in the old ways of the past, so it falls upon Kenshin to open his eyes and teach him not to try and become a part of someone else's past, but instead to forge his own future. It's an excellent way to represent more than just the characters themselves, but the meaning of the series as a whole. Soujiro is a symbol of what the future could be, and it's up to Kenshin to not let the future be plagued and corrupted by the past. On top of that, the fight is expertly paced, contains very strong emotional moments, especially in the anime, which is so effectively enthralling and intense with some of the best use of music and cinematography that the series has to offer. That's why it's my personal favorite upon re-watching it.
Nice choices. Your number one is also my number one.
The twist about Soujiro's abilities being that they are actually his biggest weakness as a person was pretty intense. Kenshin's experience of being in similar situations to the younger fighter and basically leading the boy's thought process to its logical conclusion of self-destruction and despair all through an extremely cool fight is the stuff the best shonen is made of. It's also a reflection of the whole series from Tokyo to Kyoto to Remembrance to Revenge about growing, accepting pain, and living life as it is (and not how you want it to be) at the same time.
First time I read that fight I think I teared up. Rare for a fight to do that, but it happened.
Thanks. :)
And yes, I had such a strong emotional response to the fight with Soujiro myself. It's the perfect example of how shonen battles can represent much more than punches, kicks, and energy blasts. At its core, this fight is a conflict of ideals, and Soujiro ultimately realizing that, despite his gratitude to Shishio, he doesn't have to be just like him. He can choose a more peaceful path through life despite his past.
Also, the conclusion of the fight is a thing of beauty. It reminds me of a classic Kurasawa or Leone film, in which rather than have a flurry of fancy action, tension is built up through atmosphere and tone, with the actual fight being decided in one swift and quick motion that you are in heavy anticipation of until it's all over before you even realize it. It's absolutely incredible.
I'm glad to know that it's your favorite too. :thumbup:
Great list! Mine's not too different:
10. Misao and Kaoru vs. Kamatari
9. Aoshi vs. Gein
8. Aoshi vs. Okina
7. Kenshin vs. Saito (anime)
6. Yahiko vs. Hyogo
5. Sanosuke vs. Anji
4. Kenshin vs. the Yaminobu
3. Kenshin vs. Soujiro
2. Kenshin, Sanosuke, Saito, and Aoshi vs. Shishio
1. Kenshin vs. Enishi (second fight)
I wasn't ever particularly big on Miaso, but I found her fight with Kamatari very entertaining and a great character moment for her (moreso than Kaoru, though it was still nice to see her actually be in a fight for once).
You make great points about Kenshin vs. Soujiro, but for me the Kenshin vs. Enishi fight was really great for what it meant in both characters' personal arcs, and left the most of an impression on me as the culmination to a fantastic series, so...that's why it's my personal favorite. :P
Awesome list, man!
Don't get me wrong about the Enishi fight. While I did say that it didn't give me the same impact as the others, clearly it still managed to be incredibly emotionally satisfying for me in concluding Kenshin's arc, hence why it's still one of my top 5 fights in a series full of excellent ones. ;)
On another note, I'm really glad to see that the Hyogo and Anji fights both made your list! Both seem to get overlooked by fans who prefer the "cool" types of characters, but I highly enjoyed both Yahiko and Sanosuke, myself, and both of these fights were excellent points of character development for both of them.
Oh, and the Kamatari fight was a really fun and entertaining one. It would've been an honorable mention for me, which means a lot in a series that doesn't have a single badly done fight, IMO.
Thanks!
Yahiko is actually my second favorite character in the series. I really enjoyed his character development and growth throughout the series, and his fight with Hyogo was a great culmination of it. And Sano vs. Anji was a great fight between two great characters with different ideals they wanted to prove to one another (though, the same can be said for a lot of fights in the series, but in Sano's particular case it made for a great capper to his growth during the Kyoto arc).
Yeah, Yahiko is great, and he's much more than just the "bratty kid" shonen archetype that certain fans attribute him to. In many ways he brings a heart to the series that would definitely be missed in his absence. Watsuki has even stated numerous times that he considers Yahiko to be his favorite character.
Oh, and on a random note, I can't believe that I never mentioned it, but Hyogo's character design is yet another X-Men reference, this time to Apocalypse.
I mentioned that Hyogo looked like Apocalypse long ago. :bleh:
I personally think the Raijuta (sp?) fight in the manga wasn't that good and his "arc" is the only bad part of the series.
Kenshin Vs. Saito (anime) is still my favorite Kenshin anything. Not only because of how surprisingly fluid the animation is but the build up to the fight. Saito taking out Sano was just plain cool but what I liked even more was Kaoru willingly letting Saito walk in on her property. That part was just beautifully directed. Then he gets comfortable in the dojo as Yahiko drools all over Saito examining his blade. Saito could have killed everyone before they realize it and with Kenshin far out of reach. That of course pissed off Kenshin. :D
Anyway, I can't make a top 10 or even top 5 myself. I need to go back to both versions of the series.
Honestly, it's been a long time since I've either watched or read the Raijuta arc (and both the manga and anime versions are very different). While it's definitely one of the weaker arcs in either version, I remember still enjoying both to a minor extent, but I'll have to revisit both versions to see how each holds up.
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 26, 2015, 01:24:42 AM
I mentioned that Hyogo looked like Apocalypse long ago. :bleh:
I personally think the Raijuta (sp?) fight in the manga wasn't that good and his "arc" is the only bad part of the series.
Kenshin Vs. Saito (anime) is still my favorite Kenshin anything. Not only because of how surprisingly fluid the animation is but the build up to the fight. Saito taking out Sano was just plain cool but what I liked even more was Kaoru willingly letting Saito walk in on her property. That part was just beautifully directed. Then he gets comfortable in the dojo as Yahiko drools all over Saito examining his blade. Saito could have killed everyone before they realize it and with Kenshin far out of reach. That of course pissed off Kenshin. :D
Anyway, I can't make a top 10 or even top 5 myself. I need to go back to both versions of the series.
Also, Shishio vs Kenshin is my favorite manga fight.
Spoiler
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fic.pics.livejournal.com%2Fkaizou_10%2F70859156%2F372467%2F372467_original.jpg&hash=8d814431ab9157896aae0c403917dd22d0251a43)
Rurouni Kenshin Hokkaido Arc to be serialized in Jump SQ. Yes, it's going to be a thing.
Can't say that I'm not nervous.
Holy shit, what??!!
Had Watsuki's post-RK works not been as mixed in quality as they were, my reaction to this news would be: HOLY SHIT! THIS IS AMAZING! :shakeshakeshake: :swoon: :thumbup: :joy:
As it stands, I'm currently feeling more like this: Well, hopefully it's good....:sweat:
To be clear, I think that Watsuki is capable of better output than he has had in the past decade and a half, and Rurouni Kenshin is still my favorite Shonen Jump manga to this day, but much like how Toriyama's prime was when he had his heart firmly in his manga and can never completely recapture that passion for Dr. Slump or Dragonball again, the same applies to Watsuki for Rurouni Kenshin. Unless Watsuki is willing to take risks with his story-telling and create compelling villains and write out a great story structure like he did for the Kyoto and Revenge/Remembrance arcs, I don't imagine that this new venture will really be quite what die-hard Rurouni Kenshin fans such as myself are really looking for.
He'd planned do this since RK was still running but never got around to it. I wonder if the reason he's choosing to do it now is because he's got new ideas to make it work. This might sound controversial, but I'm hoping Kenshin doesn't take the lead here (at least willingly) since his arc ended with Revenge. This would be a good chance for Aoshi, Sanosuke, Yahiko, or Soujiro, to take the lead since their character arcs haven't quite reached the same logical endpoint as Kenshin did yet.
Also there is no excuse for Viz to not pick this up. They've run everything else RK related in Jump.
Only question will be is if it is successful and has an anime is there any chance we can finally get the Revenge arc animated? Hopefully by Nishimura and MAPPA? Just dreaming.
Kenshin is a huge favorite among the Viz staff, so I'm pretty sure they'll pick it up for their magazine. Sasaki Hisashi , the editor of Rurouni Kenshin, even works at Viz now, so it would be interesting to see his thoughts on the new chapters during the SJ podcast.
I still haven't finished RK, so I'm going to try find time to read through it before the new arc starts. Though I'm already trying to catch-up on World Trigger, Blue Exorcist, and 100+ volumes of Baki so we'll see how that goes. :sweat:
I'm honestly pretty excited about this if it means focus on some characters who didn't get to shine as much in the final arc like Aoshi and Soujiro, especially the latter. I'm kinda hoping it focuses exclusively on the supporting cast and Kenshin doesn't appear all that much in it. There's a lot more that I can see being done with other characters, but Kenshin's arc feels so complete to me as is that I'd like to see someone else get an arc and attention to themselves.
Info on the new Rurouni Kenshin manga. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-03-10/jump-editor-sasaki-discusses-new-rurouni-kenshin-manga-in-subtitled-video/.113247)
-Starts in Spring
-Kenshin will be the protagonist
-There will be Five arcs
-Started the rough draft of Act 1 in February
-It's designed to be a jumping on point and can be read without previous knowledge of the series
-Will (obviously) be monthly
Personally, I was really surprised with the quality of the two-part prologue so I'm anticipating this quite a bit. Here's hoping he can finally put out this arc the way he has been wanting to since the original manga came out.
Wow, Watsuki is going all out on this one. I'm hoping for it to turn out good. Personally, I feel as though Kenshin should be relegated to a supporting character role, though. The new story should be about this new kid and Kenshin would make a perfect sort of mentor-like figure to him. But, if Watsuki does the characters justice either way, then I suppose that I'm fine with Kenshin taking up the mantle once again.
I'm excited for this. If Watsuki has five new arcs planned then this is going to be a big addition to the story. I would've preferred a different lead than Kenshin himself since his character arc felt complete by the end of the manga, but we're going to get a bunch of returning characters and expansions to their stories anyway and Kenshin is one of my all-time favorite protagonists so I can't complain.
His teaser art showed Aoshi and Misao, Sojiro, Sanosuke, Saito, and Ashitaro, so I suspect they'll all play major parts. Yutaro has already made a cameo (he was a loose end in the original manga, so that was a nice surprise) and will hopefully do more, and Yahiko is a teacher now so he'll certainly be more involved.
While I didn't see the need for Kenshin to be the main character, if it involves him taking on a more mentor figure then it should be interesting.
Though there is one character I wonder will show up. How exactly could Enishi play a part in this story? As was stated in volume 28 from wiki:
QuoteWatsuki said that he "fell into bouts of self-disgust" while drawing Enishi. The author added that he felt attachment towards Enishi and that he would someday like to use Enishi in a future work.
Can he be redeemed?
You guys all know what a sucker I am for character redemption arcs. Enishi getting one would do be very fitting for him based on what was heavily implied with his last appearance in the original manga.
Enishi's easily the character I'm the most excited to see again. He was a great villain and foil for Kenshin, and his fate at the end of the manga was bittersweet, implying that he might one day find his way in life but it would take some time. Now that we know he'll be crossing paths with Kenshin and co. again, I really want to see how Watsuki handles his potential redemption arc.
Damn, 5 arcs? This might convince me to get into an ongoing manga.
Delayed until Summer. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/daily-briefs/2017-03-31/rurouni-kenshin-hokkaido-arc-manga-launch-delayed-to-summer/.114167)
I don't mind him taking his time.
Watsuki does a good job of reintroducing the key characters from the original series as well as the new ones from the two-shot earlier this year. Having the thing that instigates Kenshin and company to journey to Hokkaido be a recent photo of Kaoru's supposedly deceased father is an interesting motivator that both gets you curious to unravel the mystery while also giving the character's some emotional stakes in this arc.
I also like how Watsuki is going in the direction that I predicted he would with Ashitaro's character, having him be a naturally violent kid brought up by people who associated violence with empowerment, in addition to being homeless and forced to fend for himself for most of this life. However, there is some good left in him and it's up to Kenshin to guide him away from his violent past and see if he can prevent Ashitaro from walking down a similarly tragic path that he did when he was his age. It's, in a way, the ultimate form of Kenshin's redemption, in that he now has the chance to stop someone else from turning into the next Battousai. Watsuki does still possess the fundamentals of how to compel readers to be engaged in a story from the start.
And I had such a fanboy moment when we ended the chapter with Saitou about to take action. We just can't have a new Rurouni Kenshin arc be all that hype without the most bad-ass RK character being a major player in it. :joy:
Overall, this is off to a really interesting start. Please don't let us down, Watsuki!
I also liked the sign joke with Sanosuke's face on it.
The old cast and the new are meshing together quite well. It definitely feels like a proper extension of the original story, considering it was always intended to be.
I'm definitely going to enjoy reading this every month.
Well, shit. Watsuki's been charged with child porn possession. (https://twitter.com/BasuP/status/932860202948292611)
"I like girls between late elementary school and second year junior high." -- Nobuhiro Watsuki, 2017 (https://twitter.com/RyougaSaotome/status/932863820720197632)
I..have a bunch of things I want to say. I will just say that this is another series on my "dead to me" list
As expected, the Hokkaido Arc manga is going on indefinite hiatus until further notice. (https://twitter.com/YonkouProd/status/932916901763678210)
Even if Watsuki is only given probation instead of jail time like Shimabukuro did after his child prostitution charges, the series will probably follow a fate similar to Seikimatsu Leader Den Takeshi and quickly end once the series returns.
Watsuki let us down after all, though not in a way I dare expected. It's sad that someone who made a series beloved by children turned out to be a pedophile creep. I won't forsake the series and go out and burn my books because there's still a lot of good about it, but I condemn Watsuki and will never read another one of his series and especially anything new he makes from now on. It's such a shame the Hokkaido arc had to be aborted because of this because it was starting so good, but I don't think I would finish it even if he does return to it at some point.
Someone really needs to do something about this problem in Japan. It really seems to pop up all the time, and it's gotten to the point that it is never surprising anymore when someone is revealed to have it. This is some devastating news, and I hope he finds help to fix himself.
I'm not going to lie, this news really stings. It's terrible in any regard to see someone have such a disgusting and immoral side to them, but it can be especially devastating when it's someone who's work you have admired.
Like Lum it's not going to necessarily change my outlook on his previous work. Stuff like Rurouni Kenshin is an amalgamation of his work in combination with assistants and editors, and it still means a lot to me and will continue to do so. That said, I also have no desire to continue to read any of his work that's put out going forward, knowing what I do about him now.
This news just really depresses me more than anything else.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 21, 2017, 11:27:35 AMSomeone really needs to do something about this problem in Japan. It really seems to pop up all the time, and it's gotten to the point that it is never surprising anymore when someone is revealed to have it. This is some devastating news, and I hope he finds help to fix himself.
Looking at things on a broader scale this isn't merely just a Japan problem. If the last several weeks have taught us anything, we have sickos of all kinds hiding in plain site all over the world. People like Harvey Weinstein and Andy Signore may not be guilty of indulging in child pornography, but it doesn't make their deeds any less terrible than Watsuki's.
I'm just hoping that the entertainment industry in general can get a good shake-up from these incidents and be more strict against weeding out people of this nature.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 21, 2017, 11:36:14 AM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 21, 2017, 11:27:35 AMSomeone really needs to do something about this problem in Japan. It really seems to pop up all the time, and it's gotten to the point that it is never surprising anymore when someone is revealed to have it. This is some devastating news, and I hope he finds help to fix himself.
Looking at things on a broader scale this isn't merely just a Japan problem. If the last several weeks have taught us anything, we have sickos of all kinds hiding in plain site all over the world. People like Harvey Weinstein and Andy Signore may not be guilty of indulging in child pornography, but it doesn't make their deeds any less terrible than Watsuki's.
I'm just hoping that the entertainment industry in general can get a good shake-up from these incidents and be more strict against weeding out people of this nature.
Agreed about that. These are problems that need to be caught sooner and nipped in the bud straight away.
Yeah, this shouldn't be just put on the Japanese.
I still like RuroKen because it was made by Watsuki before he became the man he is now. He'll probably get blacklisted for this, though.
Hopefully his career is completely dead and he spends years in prison.
It's a shame really. I loved his art style and wanted him to do another manga.
This makes Misao's character arc and her relationship with Aoshi and Kenshin awkward to reread in hindsight.
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 21, 2017, 09:00:19 PM
Hopefully his career is completely dead and he spends years in prison.
The maximum sentence he can be given is apparently one year in prison with a penalty of 1 million yen. Whether Watsuki's career will end, is anyone's guess. If Shuiesha prevents Watsuki from publishing more manga with them, there's a risk that he will leave and take Rurouni Kenshin with him, which they probably don't want to lose since it's a best-seller. At the same time, it's hard for me to imagine any other publisher being willing to take him after this, and maybe Watsuki will give up on manga as a result.
Thinking about it, this is a pretty different situation from Shimabukuro's child prostitution scandal since based on the known evidence and Shimabukuro's claims, he didn't know the girl that he payed was under aged since he met her on an anonymous hookup site. Watsuki, on the other hand, is fully admitting to being sexually attracted to young children. Shimabukuro was able to continue his career because (while not acceptable by any means) what he did was an accident, but Watsuki was 100% intentional in his actions. I doubt anyone at Shueisha will bail him out of this situation.
Quote from: VLordGTZ on November 21, 2017, 10:54:19 PMThe maximum sentence he can be given is apparently one year in prison with a penalty of 1 million yen.
Seriously? :whuh: That's a goddamn slap on the wrist.
Quote from: Daikun on November 21, 2017, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: VLordGTZ on November 21, 2017, 10:54:19 PMThe maximum sentence he can be given is apparently one year in prison with a penalty of 1 million yen.
Seriously? :whuh: That's a goddamn slap on the wrist.
Yeah, that's really lax. But at least he'll probably be blacklisted from publishing a manga again.
Aren't Japan's child pornography law a lot less strict than their penalties for drugs?
This is a rough one, as Kenshin is a series that I really like, but this is inexcusable. I feel better about having not get to the Hokkaido arc.
I am stunned that that would be the maximum. I also didn't even know he could keep/receive the rights to his series. I know jackshit about Japanese law and how manga works.
Manga are generally creator-owned works rather than publisher-owned like with major American comics. It's why Masami Kurumada is able to publish Saint Seiya sequels/spin-offs in non-Shueisha magazines, even though Shueisha still has the publishing rights to the original manga. Generally, mangaka don't try to seize the publishing rights to their series, but it does happen from time to time like with Makoto Raiku and Shogakukan or (more recently) Hiroyuki Takei and Shueisha.
It looks like Watsuki is only being fined 200,000 yen for his crime (no jail time). (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-02-27/rurouni-kenshin-creator-nobuhiro-watsuki-fined-200000-yen-for-possession-of-child-porn/.128322)
That's less than 2000 American dollars. Just a slap on the wrist. Wow.
I still think that it's safe to say that his career is pretty much done by this point, though. At least, I'll be surprised if he can find any work as a mangaka for the next several years, whether it be with Jump or any other publication. I doubt anyone will risk the controversy of contracting him at this point.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 27, 2018, 11:09:33 AM
I still think that it's safe to say that his career is pretty much done by this point, though. At least, I'll be surprised if he can find any work as a mangaka for the next several years, whether it be with Jump or any other publication. I doubt anyone will risk the controversy of contracting him at this point.
I still don't think this will hurt Watsuki though. He's probably gotten enough royalties from those live-action Kenshin movies to live comfortably.
Yeah, Watsuki will still continue to survive financially. Rurouni Kenshin is an iconic Jump franchise, and since manga are creator-owned works, Shueisha can't get rid of Watsuki without giving up the rights to the series. He'll likely never return to a mainstream Shueisha magazine, but he'll definitely still be raking in royalties from Shueisha for the foreseeable future.
Quote from: VLordGTZ on February 27, 2018, 05:51:57 PM
Yeah, Watsuki will still continue to survive financially. Rurouni Kenshin is an iconic Jump franchise, and since manga are creator-owned works, Shueisha can't get rid of Watsuki without giving up the rights to the series. He'll likely never return to a mainstream Shueisha magazine, but he'll definitely still be raking in royalties from Shueisha for the foreseeable future.
Ugh, this all makes me so sick.
It's pretty repulsive that Watsuki has only gotten off with a slap on the wrist. This sends a bad precedent for when cases like this happen again and does nothing to discourage those behaviors. Watsuki has earned plenty through his career to survive financially until he finds a new job even if Shueshia truly breaks all ties with him. Which is doubtful, considering the precedent they set when they rehired Shimabukuro, who went on to draw his most successful series that ran for nearly a decade, received an anime, and was distributed internationally. And I'm a big fan of Toriko the series and think Shimabukuro is a good mangaka, but considering what he did, he shouldn't ever have been given a second chance at Shonen Jump, and I'm concerned Watsuki will be forgiven in the same way he did, especially considering his storied and successful history with Shueshia.
Oh, I didn't know Shimabukuro was Toriko's credit (never read/watched it)
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 02, 2018, 11:38:12 PM
Oh, I didn't know Shimabukuro was Toriko's credit (never read/watched it)
Apparently Shimabukuro's incident was a case of the girl lying about her age.
Toriko's worth a read. It's very gutsy and bursting with hot blooded fun.
What infuriates me more about Watsuki is that he has a beautiful wife (No word on her feelings but I doubt she's happy about all this) and he took her for granted.
Viz Media has wisely decided not to publish the new chapters of Rurouni Kenshin's Hokkaido Arc in the English Shonen Jump releases since its return in recognition of the controversy surrounding Watsuki's possession of child pornography:
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-06-04/rurouni-kenshin-hokkaido-arc-does-not-return-in-viz-shonen-jump/.132432
It's nice to know that they aren't just trying to throw the issue under the bus and hope that people forget it exists like what Shueisha is doing.