Animation Revelation Forum

Other Entertainment => Vidja Games => Topic started by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 06, 2013, 09:21:27 PM

Title: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 06, 2013, 09:21:27 PM
I know we have a hack n' slash thread, but I figured that the DMC series is prominent enough to warrant its very own thread.

Anyways, now that I've finally played every current DMC game at least once, here's how I would probably rank them.

1. Devil May Cry 3- I only beat this game once but I'm sure to be hooked on it until I at least conquer DMD mode
2. Devil May Cry- Great level design, shallow combat (but still fun)
3. Devil May Cry 4- Great combat (mostly for Dante, though), shallow (read: lazy) level design
4. Devil May Cry 2- At least there's one game that DmC can't possibly be worse than

I know its weird that I don't rank 4 ahead of 1 given that I prefer the formula from DMC 3 and 4, but for what its worth despite the combat being shallow by today's standards, I really did enjoy all of DMC1 as it has the least amount of padding of any game in the series and it was genuinely fun the entire way through (even DMC3 has some shameless padding of its own). From what I've seen, you'll typically either see people who only like DMC1 and don't care for any of the sequels even after DMC2 (like Desensitized) or people who came to like the style of DMC3 and 4 but don't care for the 1st game at all (like Grave). And of course I think everyone agrees where DMC2 lines within the spectrum.

I feel that DMC4 is a bit too lopsided in terms of quality for me. Some parts of the game are a blast, while other parts are just a drag. As I've stated, I am by no means a hater of Nero. I like all of his base combat, but feel that he really could have been expanded upon, as it seems jarring how limited his combat mechanics feel (to me at least) in comparison to Dante. I also think that the devil bringer is a tad bit overpowered, but I don't hold it against him because I don't have to use it that much in combat if I don't want to, and more often than not I avoid using it as a crutch even though its really easy to do so.

At any rate, I consider DMC3 to be the pinnacle of the series from what I've played of it, and I'm still playing it (right now I'm tackling the game on Hard mode as Dante). Once I beat Hard mode I'll give Vergil a try as well.

While I'll always prefer the combat of the Ninja Gaiden series from a personal standpoint, I think that DMC is pretty much unrivaled in terms of juggle-based mechanics (at least referring to DMC3 and 4), and for what its worth, I honestly like what I've played of DMC3 and 4 more than what I've played of Bayonetta. Yes, I said it. I still want to play Bayonetta in full, but to be honest, despite it being from the original creator of DMC and having a robust combat system to keep up with the times....it just doesn't feel as smooth or as fun as DMC's combat does to me, but maybe that's just because I need more practice with the game. Like I said, I do plan to get into the game someday, but for now I have to honestly say that I prefer DMC.

As for Ninja Theory's spin on DMC, I'm not a fan of the style myself, but the gameplay looks at least half-way decent. Its nowhere near as close to being as fun as DMC3 and 4 from a combat standpoint based on what I've played of it, but it seems to at least have interesting environments and level design, so maybe at the very least it can have gameplay comparable to that of DMC1, but even then the story looks atrocious. Of course, I've never been one to care about story in action games, so in a way it doesn't phase me nearly as much as it might phase some other people.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on January 06, 2013, 10:07:48 PM
Yeah, DmC clearly won't be on 4's level.

I wish Dante would get air combos for all of his styles and more than one air combo.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 06, 2013, 10:17:19 PM
Dante has more than 1 air combo if you count the fact that he actually has more than 1 weapon unlike a certain other half-baked character. :sly:

Having him only have access to air combos with the sword master style is fine. It balances out the game and is there if you want to be stylish. In DMC4 especially there is no reason to complain as you can switch between styles on the fly. If you've actually watched any pro combo videos for this game, you'll know that with enough practice you can instantaneously switch between styles as you need them, so you can activate Dante's sword master style as soon as you knock an enemy up into the air, and then you can activate another style of your choice as soon as you land. That's the best possible combat system for Dante to use. He doesn't need anymore improvement beyond that.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 06, 2013, 10:58:03 PM
The only thing Dante needs to improve his combat his combat in 4 is the ability to surf on downed enemies from 3.  Nero's combat can be expanded by having some of his DT moves available in base form, expanding on the Exceed feature, and being able to do more things with the Devil Bringer such as grabbing an enemy and using them to bash other enemies ala the second Zone of the Enders, being able to throw enemies, punching enemies, etc.


The main problem with DmC's story is the same with NG3's story. They're making it the focus of the game, despite it being worse than the storylines of the other games, and much like NG3, Tameem and Ninja Theory clearly want you to take the story and characters seriously. On the bright side Vergil's gameplay looks pretty solid, and the recent CG trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3mE5up8sD8) actually looks pretty cool.





Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 06, 2013, 11:13:28 PM
However, Ninja Gaiden 3 is FAR, FAR worse than DmC. At least DmC isn't using the story as an excuse to completely butcher the gameplay and get lazy as fuck with the content like Hayashi and Team Ninja did in NG3 and even Razor's Edge. I mean, the gameplay in DmC doesn't look to be on par with DMC3 and 4, but you can at least tell that Ninja Theory is genuinely trying to make good gameplay and trying to win over some of the fans, whereas Team Ninja clearly just didn't give a fuck when they made NG3, so for that reason I'll give DmC just a little bit of respect. I don't expect to love the game, but I don't see myself hating on it either unless the whole game is a total bust, but going by the demo it'll probably be a slightly above average action game, which is more than I was initially expecting given this developer's track record, so I can't really say that I'd be disappointed with the final result.

Also, speaking of story, while I never play these games for story, I actually do have just a really mild investment in DMC's story continuum. I'm really attracted to the mythos more than anything else, and I really would've loved to see the world of DMC expanded upon in future games. I would love to have seen a DMC5 that actually continues the DMC story by going forward rather than backwards for once (seriously, there's no game in the series that takes place after DMC2 just because Dante got sent to Hell in that one). I'd love to see some light shed on Nero's back-story, and I'd love to see a situation where we got to see The Legendary Dark Knight Sparda in action for once. There's so much potential that the DMC series has in terms of expanding its story and Universe that we'll likely never get to see since Capcom flat out doesn't care about what fans want anymore.

Oh, BTW, I just came to realize that the same team that made DMC2 is in fact the same team that made DMC3 and 4, which honestly baffles me. I guess it proves that developers of bad games can eventually redeem themselves, and in some cases make some of the best games ever. Is it wrong for this to give me hope that the current Team Ninja can turn themselves around and make Ninja Gaiden games good again?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 06, 2013, 11:25:49 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-kenAlso, speaking of story, while I never play these games for story, I actually do have just a really mild investment in DMC's story continuum. I'm really attracted to the mythos more than anything else, and I really would've loved to see the world of DMC expanded upon in future games. I would love to have seen a DMC5 that actually continues the DMC story by going forward rather than backwards for once (seriously, there's no game in the series that takes place after DMC2 just because Dante got sent to Hell in that one). I'd love to see some light shed on Nero's back-story, and I'd love to see a situation where we got to see The Legendary Dark Knight Sparda in action for once. There's so much potential that the DMC series has in terms of expanding its story and Universe that we'll likely never get to see since Capcom flat out doesn't care about what fans want anymore.

That's another reason I'm not to big on the reboot, there were so many plot points and time periods left uncovered that rebooting it feels pointless. But yeah, I and many other fans would like to see those things explored. The least they could do is make an OVA adaptation of DMC1 (that takes into account the retcons made in later games) and DMC3. Hell, they could've made the movie that's been greenlighted take place in the old continuity, that way at least fans of the original series would have something to look forward to.

BTW, have you checked out the DMC anime? It's not as over-the-top as the games (since it focuses on Dante's more "mundane" missions, and since it's in continuity with the games they obviously can't do anything "big"), and there are one or two episodes it could've done without, but it's still pretty good for an anime based on a videogame.

QuoteOh, BTW, I just came to realize that the same team that made DMC2 is in fact the same team that made DMC3 and 4, which honestly baffles me. I guess it proves that developers of bad games can eventually redeem themselves, and in some cases make some of the best games ever. Is it wrong for this to give me hope that the current Team Ninja can turn themselves around and make Ninja Gaiden games good again?

Since Hayashi seems to realize how much he and TN fucked up with NG3, I'd say anything is possible. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 06, 2013, 11:39:03 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on January 06, 2013, 11:25:49 PM
That's another reason I'm not to big on the reboot, there were so many plot points and time periods left uncovered that rebooting it feels pointless. But yeah, I and many other fans would like to see those things explored. The least they could do is make an OVA adaptation of DMC1 (that takes into account the retcons made in later games) and DMC3. Hell, they could've made the movie that's been greenlighted take place in the old continuity, that way at least fans of the original series would have something to look forward to.

Yeah, I believe one of the biggest complaints that most fans had when DmC was announced was that they were disappointed that the series wouldn't be moving forward with a DMC5, in which many fans hoped to learn more about Nero's past and how it may have had something to do with Vergil (which was pretty heavily implied in DMC4 given Nero's reaction to Yamato and how he needed it to use his Devil Trigger). Nero in general made a perfect rival for Dante since Vergil was killed off, and it would've been nice to see the next game have them tackle a foe so big that the 2 of them were forced to work together (along with Lady and Trish). Most of all, though, I want to see a game that takes place after DMC2, which Capcom still considers canon. If that's the case, then make it so that Dante somehow returns back to his normal cocky-self after DMC2 (and they could easily write in any bull-shit reason that he can return from Hell, so its not like that's a problem). I just hate the idea of DMC2 being the true ending of the series, as it feels like a very bleak and grim ending being that its not only the worst game but also the worst the story has ever been. It commits the cardinal sin of being bland as hell. Even DmC's abysmal story probably won't be boring, as I see a lot of potential unintentional humor to be experienced in that particular game.

QuoteBTW, have you checked out the DMC anime? It's not as over-the-top as the games (since it focuses on Dante's more "mundane" missions, and since it's in continuity with the games they obviously can't do anything "big"), and there are one or two episodes it could've done without, but it's still pretty good for an anime based on a videogame.

I watched the first 2 or 3 episodes of it and found it to be kind of boring. It honestly kind of reminded me of DMC2 for some reason, which is certainly not a good thing. However, I do like that Dante was still a bit cocky in it, and I also liked that they got the same voice actor for Dante in the games (well, at least DMC3 and 4, which I find to be the best Dante voice, anyways, and the only one that I identify with the character) to do his voice in the anime. I wouldn't mind if they made another DMC anime that tackled a much bigger story, though. Just get the writers from Capcom who worked on DMC3 and 4 to write a big story that would take up a full anime season, and then they could adapt that into an anime and call it canon and it'd probably be really entertaining. Something that followed the general tone of DMC3 would be ideal, as IMO that's the high point of the DMC series in terms of story-telling (as well as gameplay, of course).
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 07, 2013, 12:02:59 AM
A DMC game taking place after 2 should chronicle Dante's escape from Hell and feature him fighting all the games previous bosses and finally making peace with Vergil. Also, how convienient that Dante let Nero keep Yamato, a sword that can open the gates of hell. Gee, I wonder what Nero would use that power for if he ever found out his rival/mentor was stuck in hell. :humhumhum:

QuoteI watched the first 2 or 3 episodes of it and found it to be kind of boring. It honestly kind of reminded me of DMC2 for some reason, which is certainly not a good thing. However, I do like that Dante was still a bit cocky in it, and I also liked that they got the same voice actor for Dante in the games (well, at least DMC3 and 4, which I find to be the best Dante voice, anyways, and the only one that I identify with the character) to do his voice in the anime. I wouldn't mind if they made another DMC anime that tackled a much bigger story, though. Just get the writers from Capcom who worked on DMC3 and 4 to write a big story that would take up a full anime season, and then they could adapt that into an anime and call it canon and it'd probably be really entertaining. Something that followed the general tone of DMC3 would be ideal, as IMO that's the high point of the DMC series in terms of story-telling (as well as gameplay, of course).

Dante's portrayal in the anime actually reminded me a lot of Spike Spiegal. In all honesty I actually like that version of Dante quite a bit (possibly even more than  4's), he has that right mix of calm, cool, and cocky that I'm sure what DMC2 was trying to go for, and failed miserably.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 07, 2013, 12:20:45 AM
Quote from: Rynnec on January 07, 2013, 12:02:59 AM
A DMC game taking place after 2 should chronicle Dante's escape from Hell and feature him fighting all the games previous bosses and finally making peace with Vergil. Also, how convienient that Dante let Nero keep Yamato, a sword that can open the gates of hell. Gee, I wonder what Nero would use that power for if he ever found out his rival/mentor was stuck in hell. :humhumhum:

You know, that'd also be a terrific opportunity to finally have Dante meet his own father, Sparda, face to face. It'd be great to see Sparda, the guy who was always built up as being the ultimate bad-ass of the DMC Universe, finally have his big reveal in a DMC game. While its probably more effective to always have him talked about in the background, I still think every DMC fan really just wants to see the guy in action after 4 games of just talking about him.

BTW, This is kind of off-topic, but speaking of the anime and how it tackles Dante taking on episodic jobs and cases rather than just big ones, I remember that it did give me what I consider to be a good idea for a spin-off DMC game (though still featuring Dante as the main playable character). I was thinking it'd be really cool to have a sort of GTA-style DMC game, only in the sense that you have a large demon-infested town to explore and you actually got to play through Dante's daily-life in terms of the regular sorts of missions that he takes on. That'd still contain plenty of hack n' slash action as each mission could lead to its own level that you have to fight through, but I feel as though it'd be a unique and interesting angle to tackle the DMC series from. You could take only the missions you want and others could be optional, you could tackle them in any order you see fit, and you could actually earn money for them (or red orbs, I suppose), and have that be your main way to upgrade your arsenal. That's just an idea I had, but I think it'd make for a pretty cool new DMC experience, personally.

QuoteDante's portrayal in the anime actually reminded me a lot of Spike Spiegal. In all honesty I actually like that version of Dante quite a bit (possibly even more than  4's), he has that right mix of calm, cool, and cocky that I'm sure what DMC2 was trying to go for, and failed miserably.

I'm actually fine with Dante's portrayal in the anime. Its just that everything else about the anime feels so....un-DMC like. Probably even more so than DMC2 did. I think an anime about episodic cases that Dante tackles is fine, but I suppose I expect more demon slaying and less boring side-characters. That said, I only watched the first 3 episodes, so I'm sure the series probably gets better later on. I just kind of wish there was a DMC anime that followed suit with the style of DMC3 instead, in that it could still be episodic but it'd have Dante tackling all sorts of over-the-top manner of demons. I suppose if the DMC anime lacked anything significant more me, its that I wanted to see Dante fight larger-than-life bad guys like Phantom, Griffon, Cerberus, Beowulf, and so on. It'd also be cool if we could see some of Dante's alternate weapons from other games make an appearance in the anime, even if they wouldn't make as much sense as just using his main sword, Rebellion. I mean, you can't tell me it wouldn't be awesome to see Dante demon-slaying in a DMC anime by jamming sick tunes with Nevan, could you? ;)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 07, 2013, 12:39:29 AM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken
BTW, This is kind of off-topic, but speaking of the anime and how it tackles Dante taking on episodic jobs and cases rather than just big ones, I remember that it did give me what I consider to be a good idea for a spin-off DMC game (though still featuring Dante as the main playable character). I was thinking it'd be really cool to have a sort of GTA-style DMC game, only in the sense that you have a large demon-infested town to explore and you actually got to play through Dante's daily-life in terms of the regular sorts of missions that he takes on. That'd still contain plenty of hack n' slash action as each mission could lead to its own level that you have to fight through, but I feel as though it'd be a unique and interesting angle to tackle the DMC series from. You could take only the missions you want and others could be optional, you could tackle them in any order you see fit, and you could actually earn money for them (or red orbs, I suppose), and have that be your main way to upgrade your arsenal. That's just an idea I had, but I think it'd make for a pretty cool new DMC experience, personally.

Funny enough, I read a similar idea for a DMC game on another forum. I think such a game would be a lot like the Armored Core series and the first No More Heroes.


QuoteI mean, you can't tell me it wouldn't be awesome to see Dante demon-slaying in a DMC anime by jamming sick tunes with Nevan, could you?

That would be the best thing to ever happen in an anime in recent years. Also, a hypothetical second DMC-anime should also show Dante's Devil Trigger since the first one crapped out on showing it (it cut away right as he was activating it, it was such a tease).
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 07, 2013, 12:44:37 AM
Quote from: Rynnec on January 07, 2013, 12:39:29 AM
Funny enough, I read a similar idea for a DMC game on another forum. I think such a game would be a lot like the Armored Core series and the first No More Heroes.

That makes me wonder what kind of game we'd get if they ever got Suda51 to make a DMC game. :thinkin:

QuoteThat would be the best thing to ever happen in an anime in recent years. Also, a hypothetical second DMC-anime should also show Dante's Devil Trigger since the first one crapped out on showing it (it cut away right as he was activating it, it was such a tease).

And that's just another reason why this anime disappoints me. :(

Seriously, though, DMC deserves another shot at an anime. It could really be adapted into something special if put in the right hands. I'm sure the anime we got was fine on its own, but there's just so much mythos that could be taken advantage of, and honestly another anime would be the perfect way to expand on DMC's story-line, which as far as I'm concerned is the best of any of the big hack n' slash games out there (most people would say God of War has the best story, but you know very well that I don't much care for GoW, myself).
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 07, 2013, 06:04:06 AM
I gotta do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZpAIdqAA-U

That nearly put DMC4 over 3 for me, especially when I first saw that in the game. I love me some cutscenes especially if they're flashy. Anyway, this is how I remember Dante. This reboot really messes with his image, dropping F-bombs and whatnot. It's outta character. I'd see Nero dropping F-bombs before Dante, and even if Capcom/Ninja Theory wants to say it fits with him because of him being young in this then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CumydKsSz-g&list=PL7E6692CA17E7E7E6, again, this is how I remember young Dante. I don't recall him ever cussing in any of the games. I remember hearing in some interview (I think it was IGN or G4) that Tameem (is that his name?) was trying to have Dante fit in more with today's culture. Don't get me wrong I don't mind cussing, but from someone who hasn't,  and to change him to fit in with what goes on today? Why? I'd say Capcom/Ninja Theory is definitely about to alienate DMC's fanbase much like Team Ninja if it hasn't been done already.

Now as far as the rest of the games go, of course I'd rank them like DMC3, 4, 1 (I've yet to really play DMC2). Did I really say I don't care for the first? (I'ma have to go back and check) If I did I have to rephrase myself. It's not that I don't like the first one, it's just the combat is much more satisfying in the 3rd and 4th games till it's hard for me to try and play the 1st again. I'm contradicting myself for sure though since I have no issue with Nero's moveset (I do agree that he could use more moves from his DT in his base combat), but find Dante's moveset to be very small in DMC1 hence the whole, not able to go back to playing it. I've gotten so accustomed to Dante's large variety of moves (even in UMvC3) to the point where it's not satisfying to play DMC1 anymore.

I also haven't watched the anime. I've seen the first episode but dropped it afterwards because I've been growing to hate Madhouse as of late with the cheap ways of using animation. While I see DMC can work as a movie, I'm against movies based on games. I'd much rather see some OVA's since studios seem to put more budget in those kinda things.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on January 09, 2013, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 06, 2013, 10:17:19 PM
Dante has more than 1 air combo if you count the fact that he actually has more than 1 weapon unlike a certain other half-baked character. :sly:

Having him only have access to air combos with the sword master style is fine. It balances out the game and is there if you want to be stylish. In DMC4 especially there is no reason to complain as you can switch between styles on the fly. If you've actually watched any pro combo videos for this game, you'll know that with enough practice you can instantaneously switch between styles as you need them, so you can activate Dante's sword master style as soon as you knock an enemy up into the air, and then you can activate another style of your choice as soon as you land. That's the best possible combat system for Dante to use. He doesn't need anymore improvement beyond that.
Not having air combos for all styles and more than air combo in a game that has heavy focus on juggling is stupid
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 09, 2013, 11:53:04 AM
So in other words, Devil May Cry 1 is a piece of garbage for not having air combos at all (by your standards), and you just flat-out suck too much at gaming to press right on the d-pad to switch into the sword master style. Do you even realize how insane Dante's style cancels are? If you master how to chain combos together through the various cancels that Dante's combat allows you, then you can string together all sorts of combos that even Nero and his newbie devil bringer could never hope to achieve. Dante can cancel from one combo to another through changes in style, devil arms, and his guns. Give me one thing that Nero can do that can even compare to that.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 09, 2013, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-KenDante can cancel from one combo to another through changes in style, devil arms, and his guns. Give me one thing that Nero can do that can even compare to that.
Slam people and be done with it. I don't think Nero is/was meant to be as flashy as Dante to begin with. I see Dante having all that stuff as a means to showoff, and rightfully so. I see the changes in styles, devil arms and amounts of guns as Dante (along with his personality). The large array of moves makes him who he is (To even implement that in a fighting game gotta say something). As I said, Nero is the powerhouse. You can see that with every single sword strike (Exceed just makes it that much better), and then Vergil being your well rounded. I don't know if Capcom thinks about stuff like that (Kudos if you do), but that's my take on it. You give Nero anymore weapons your basically asking for another Dante/Vergil, but probably more overpowered. Perhaps that's what people wanted to begin with, and maybe I'm giving Capcom too much credit "shrugs".
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on January 09, 2013, 07:22:12 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 09, 2013, 11:53:04 AM
So in other words, Devil May Cry 1 is a piece of garbage for not having air combos at all (by your standards), and you just flat-out suck too much at gaming to press right on the d-pad to switch into the sword master style. Do you even realize how insane Dante's style cancels are? If you master how to chain combos together through the various cancels that Dante's combat allows you, then you can string together all sorts of combos that even Nero and his newbie devil bringer could never hope to achieve. Dante can cancel from one combo to another through changes in style, devil arms, and his guns. Give me one thing that Nero can do that can even compare to that.
I didn't say anything about Nero, blind man. And cancel, smancel. There's no reason for Dante to not have air combos for all styles.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 09, 2013, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 09, 2013, 07:22:12 PM
I didn't say anything about Nero, blind man. And cancel, smancel. There's no reason for Dante to not have air combos for all styles.

Except for that it would make him completely overpowered. But then again, you probably want that since you're the kind of gamer who probably has a tough time with DMC4 even on Human mode. :sly:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 10, 2013, 03:43:35 AM
Japanese trailer for DmC. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L483Nze40U)

I gotta admit, this trailer actually makes the game look pretty cool, bad dialogue aside. If more of the trailers for this game had been more like this one, I'd probably be more receptive to it. It helps that the music is better than anything we've been hearing in the actual game too.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 10, 2013, 04:41:59 AM
I suppose it sounds better. If anything it's easier enough for me to tune out (same with the music in 3 & 4). This other crap they've been playing with the game is just hard to since it's so annoying.

I see Vergil's using a gun... Don't know how I feel about that yet lol.

I may check it out, but it definitely won't be a day 1 buy.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on January 10, 2013, 08:53:35 AM
Hmmm, I liked 3's music. But of course the first game's trounces that.

And Vergil better say jackpot.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 10, 2013, 12:23:45 PM
Quote from: Grave on January 10, 2013, 04:41:59 AM
I may check it out, but it definitely won't be a day 1 buy.
This.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 10, 2013, 12:45:43 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 10, 2013, 08:53:35 AM
Hmmm, I liked 3's music. But of course the first game's trounces that.
Not a metal fan, but I can easily tune it out since I get too much into hackin away.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on January 10, 2013, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: Grave on January 10, 2013, 12:45:43 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 10, 2013, 08:53:35 AM
Hmmm, I liked 3's music. But of course the first game's trounces that.
Not a metal fan, but I can easily tune it out since I get too much into hackin away.
Me either but I think it fits the game.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 10, 2013, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 10, 2013, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: Grave on January 10, 2013, 12:45:43 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on January 10, 2013, 08:53:35 AM
Hmmm, I liked 3's music. But of course the first game's trounces that.
Not a metal fan, but I can easily tune it out since I get too much into hackin away.
Me either but I think it fits the game.
Definitely. Believe it or not, there was once a time I almost sold DMC3 immediately because of the music. I hated all that screaming.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 10, 2013, 01:29:42 PM
I'll give the game this much: I do like that it has a bit more to offer in the level design department. Don't get me wrong, its not like its top-grade platforming or puzzle solving, but from the demo I've played and the gameplay videos I've seen, it all works really competently (whereas platforming was always a disaster in the proper DMC games), and I actually do have to admit that I like how colorful and varied the environments are, even if it comes form this stupid "Western concept of demons" and how this is a world that only Dante can see and is blinded from human eyes or whatever the fuck they're going for with this game's plot.

I also heard somewhere that this game may have branching paths, which is always a plus for me. If there's anything that I could knock the old games down for (save DMC1), it was lazy level design. Of course DMC3 more than made up for this with its unrivaled juggle-based combat, and in general its level design wasn't nearly as badly recycled as it was in DMC4, but I do like having good platforming and puzzle solving to break up the pace in the action a bit and give me some breathing room, and if nothing else DmC seems to be doing just that, at the very least. That said, there's no substitute for great combat, and I still can't help but feel that DmC will be a big step down from the previous games in this department, but if it at least somewhat makes up for it with good level design, then it could turn out to be a decent game to play through at least once.

That said, I'm not really holding out any hopes for this game to be good. If it is, then that's all the better. But, I learned my lesson from NG3, and I'm just going to go in assuming that this game is crap until I actually play it for myself and either confirm or refute that notion.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on January 10, 2013, 02:31:30 PM
I do think the game will be good. Or at least have a good chance of being good. Just not DMC1, 3, 4-good.

I know I fucked up my words on describing it when I talked about my playthrough of the demo but yeah, I liked the platforming. Sucks that the level morphing is why they have the game at half the speed of the other DMCs though,
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 10, 2013, 07:22:43 PM
I have my own thoughts about the DmC's musical choices, but I'll save that rant for later, because the ending boss and cutscene just got leaked. Watch it here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pzohOJNvvzE) in crap quality before it gets taken down.

Spoiler
Suprising no one, Vergil turns out to be the final boss and sort of betrays Dante...kind of. Unsuprisingly, I find myself feeling more sympathy towards Vergil than Dante.

The boss fight in itself doesn't look too bad, but it doesn't look final boss-ish either, if anything it looks like the kind of boss you'd fight in the middle of the game, that, and the lack of lock-on really shows its problems with this boss in particular. The music also doesn't feel final boss-ish enough.

I also don't like the fact that Dante only spares Vergil because Kat told him to. I thought there conflict in the original series where Dante did care for his brother (even going as far as to try and save him after he defeats him), but still had to stop him because if he didn't, people would get hurt. Granted, his almost killing Vergil here could be the effects of Devil Trigger, but I doubt it.

Also, the game just sort of...ends. It felt really anticlimactic.
[close]
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 10, 2013, 07:39:39 PM
Doesn't look anywhere near as good as the final boss fight in DMC3 with Vergil, but at least it also doesn't look like an utter joke like most of the DMC2 boss fights were. I also don't like how Dante only spared Vergil because someone else has to ask him to. In DMC3, Dante still tried to save Vergil even after beating him, but Vergil was too proud to let that happen, and he slashed Dante's hand before he could catch him. That's the other thing that ticks me off about this ending. Vergil in this version has no dignity. Look at Vergil in DMC3, in which he'd never let a battle end like that. He'd either keep fighting Dante until one of them died, or would tell Dante to have the balls to finish it. That's at least the way that I see Vergil, as in DMC3 he was the type of character who had no intention of just walking away from a defeat. It was either win or die for him.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 11, 2013, 06:52:04 PM
Soundless voice only cutscenes of DmC (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/605600-dmc-devil-may-cry/65152441)

I know the lack of sounds probably takes aways some of the impact these cutscenes have, but damn is that dialogue groan-worthy! The poor animation doesn't do any favors either.:lol:

Can't wait til the cutscenes are properly uploaded, I'm gonna have a lot of laughs come the 15th.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 13, 2013, 11:19:22 PM
I've been watching a playthrough of DmC, and so far it's pretty much what we're expecting. On the positive side: for all the faults the game has, there are some bright spots.  The nightclub level (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPK72t150t4&list=PLWCybra-2hg2D2ctvDCern8KzMLj01Y9i&index=13) is actually pretty cool and I'd like to see a level like that appear in a proper DMC game (reminds me of BatmanBeyond and Samurai Jack for some reason), the final two enemies at 18:40 and 22:01 look fun to fight.

As far as the weapons go, Aquilla looks awesome (though it's a bit broken), and the shotgun looks like it has a lot of power behind it. Unfortunately, that's about it for weapons (There are only about 7 of them including Rebellion, Ebony & Ivory, and more than half of them are boring, which is a really bad thing to be in a DMC game), which I guess is a fair amount, I just wish more of them looked fun. In fact, that's my main complaint with this game in terms of gameplay. The combat looks boring, and considering this is Devil May Cry, that's the absolute last thing you want combat to be.

As far as the game's story goes: It's...pretty boring and by the numbers. Which would be fine if NT weren't hyping up the story so damn much. There are some laughable scenes and unintentional humour such as those graphic novel scenes highlighting Dante and Vergil's past, and Kat somehow managing to not get riddled with bullets in the middle of a gunfight, but I haven't seen anything on the level of "I've never thought about being a father...I'm touched" yet.

...Well, this comes pretty close. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKzean6v_kY&list=PLWCybra-2hg2D2ctvDCern8KzMLj01Y9i&index=18)

Speaking of Vergil, there's another pretty big character assassinating moment earlier where
Spoiler
He not only uses a gun, but uses it to kill Lilith and Mundus' unborn son (whom he and Dante were holding hostage), which isn't something the old Vergil would've done, at least not in that manner.
[close]
Dante's implied "romance" with Kat is also pretty forced, and actually makes him come off as even more unlikable since it makes him look like he's doing this just because he has the hots for her. Of course, it doesn't help that Kat herself is a rather bland, cardboard cutout, complete with a forced angsty backstory (with an abusive foster father...WHO WAS A DEMON! Oh noes!) to elicit cheap sympathy from easily emotionally manipulated audiences.

Mundus...is quite possibly the worst villain ever. This guy has no presence or menace whatsoever. And his redesing is easily the worst of the 3 (4 if you count Sparda). You'd think that since Mundus is based off Lucifer, that he'd look a lot more handsome and charismatic, and not like some bald middle-aged dude.

As for the music: It's complete and utter horseshit with a few okay-ish tracks. What I don't get is why they're using dubstep and combichrist of all things instead of something more rebelious sounding like Punk Rock (I believe I even read an interview stating that Dante's look was even supposed to resemble a typical "punk rock" teenager or something like that). This music just doesn't get me pumped up at all.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 14, 2013, 12:04:24 AM
So in other words DmC is your typical mediocre action/adventure game falling into Ninja Theory's "standard" level of quality?

Quote from: Rynnec on January 13, 2013, 11:19:22 PM
but I haven't seen anything on the level of "I've never thought about being a father...I'm touched" yet.

:srs:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 14, 2013, 02:00:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE3SMyv_zvY&list=PLWCybra-2hg2D2ctvDCern8KzMLj01Y9i&index=14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE3SMyv_zvY&list=PLWCybra-2hg2D2ctvDCern8KzMLj01Y9i&index=14)

:wth:

Those with weak stomachs may not want to click the link.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 14, 2013, 02:39:00 AM
So, aside from the fact that this boss fight is completely grotesque and one of the most uncharacteristic things for a "DMC" game to do, I noticed another big problem with this. It had to do with gameplay. Did you notice it?

Look at when the player tries to hit the mother, and completely botches a bunch of his attacks due to the lack of a lock-on targeting system like the previous DMC games. Its such an obvious thing to include given that its part of EVERY one of the proper DMC games (even the shitty DMC2 had enough sense to include that feature).

I mean, yeah, Ninja Gaiden has an auto-targeting system and that works fine for that game, but that's because that game is specifically designed around the fact that its auto-targeting. The enemies and bosses all work within the confines of that system and it results in great combat that's just as precise as DMC is with its lock-on targeting.

That said, this game isn't Ninja Gaiden. Its not even God of War either. Its "supposed" to be a DMC game, and it just baffles me that even a developer as amateurish as Ninja Theory would leave out such an integral part of DMC's gameplay mechanics.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 14, 2013, 03:00:20 AM
Oh yeah, I noticed that. Though at first I thought that was because the player wasn't that good at the game.

The lack of lock-on is especially stupid when you realize that you have to hold the shoulder buttons to use your alternate weapons, which just makes things incredibly clunky. If they were trying to aim this at a casual audience, they were better off just keeping the lock on button and removing the need to hold down the shoulder buttons. I also don't like how certain enemies can only be damaged with certain weapons.

Honestly, they were better off calling this game Heavenly Sword 2 since that's what it plays like.

Also, here's a video by a pro-DMC player playing DmC. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2vz5CJU8DM) It really shows how downgraded the combat is. What's even weirder is that I keep hearing people say that it plays exactly like the old DMC games, which is just BS. I don't mind if people like this game, but for the love of god don't say stuff that just plain isn't true. If it weren't for the fact that this game is called DmC I would've thought it was a completely unrelated series.

Also: FUCK YEAH ADAM SESSLER! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRyN6qUZ9Mc)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 14, 2013, 08:09:19 AM
I just thought the person didn't know how to use the lock-on, but seeing that it's just not there, wow. And then to see Sessler's review of the game, all of this is making me real hesitant on this game.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 14, 2013, 12:02:44 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on January 14, 2013, 02:00:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE3SMyv_zvY&list=PLWCybra-2hg2D2ctvDCern8KzMLj01Y9i&index=14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE3SMyv_zvY&list=PLWCybra-2hg2D2ctvDCern8KzMLj01Y9i&index=14)
*Sees video is uploaded by someone named SplitRyona*
*Closes link immediately, clears browser history*

I will not have that filth contaminating my computer. Check out the dude's YouTube Channel if you want a laugh.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 14, 2013, 12:20:44 PM
Reviews are coming out all over the place with Adam giving it the lowest I've seen so far

IGN - 8.9
Gamespot - 8.0
1up - A (wow)
Gametrailers - 8.5

I'd definitely say Capcom has succeeded in alienating their fanbase. (Read some of those comments, I know, no one should read that stuff)

Anyway, maybe I overreacted a bit when I saw that there was no lock-on, but I will say that a lot of these reviews (the ones I've watched anyway) are showing tons of gameplay and I'll admit, it looks good. Like I said, it won't be a day 1 buy, but I'm definitely considering buying at some point this year (Perhaps March, April-ish).
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on January 14, 2013, 01:24:02 PM
Quote from: Foggle on January 14, 2013, 12:02:44 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on January 14, 2013, 02:00:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE3SMyv_zvY&list=PLWCybra-2hg2D2ctvDCern8KzMLj01Y9i&index=14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE3SMyv_zvY&list=PLWCybra-2hg2D2ctvDCern8KzMLj01Y9i&index=14)
*Sees video is uploaded by someone named SplitRyona*
*Closes link immediately, clears browser history*

I will not have that filth contaminating my computer. Check out the dude's YouTube Channel if you want a laugh.
I busted out laughing.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 14, 2013, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: Foggle on January 14, 2013, 12:02:44 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on January 14, 2013, 02:00:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE3SMyv_zvY&list=PLWCybra-2hg2D2ctvDCern8KzMLj01Y9i&index=14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE3SMyv_zvY&list=PLWCybra-2hg2D2ctvDCern8KzMLj01Y9i&index=14)
*Sees video is uploaded by someone named SplitRyona*
*Closes link immediately, clears browser history*

I will not have that filth contaminating my computer. Check out the dude's YouTube Channel if you want a laugh.

Unfortunately, he was the only one with a complete playthrough at the time. :sweat:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on January 14, 2013, 03:03:28 PM
Quote from: Grave on January 14, 2013, 12:20:44 PM
IGN - 8.9
Gamespot - 8.0
1up - A (wow)
Gametrailers - 8.5
:whuh:

I'm sure it's at least a decent game, but Ninja Theory can't make an amazing game, IMO. They're basically the definition of C-level developers from everything I've seen or played from them. I can't see them making something without half-baked ideas, simplistic combat, or auto-platforming.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 14, 2013, 05:10:49 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on January 14, 2013, 03:03:28 PM
Quote from: Grave on January 14, 2013, 12:20:44 PM
IGN - 8.9
Gamespot - 8.0
1up - A (wow)
Gametrailers - 8.5
:whuh:

I'm sure it's at least a decent game, but Ninja Theory can't make an amazing game, IMO. They're basically the definition of C-level developers from everything I've seen or played from them. I can't see them making something without half-baked ideas, simplistic combat, or auto-platforming.
I wouldn't know since I haven't played a single game they've made, although I did hear that Enslaved was actually a good game.

There's already a walkthrough of the game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAmfsBaXmAU (he kinda sorta works for/with Capcom)

Warning: 1st 5 mins is more annoying than it should be. (I should've watched this first before posting it since I'm just now watching it)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 14, 2013, 05:38:11 PM
Has anyone actually read or watched the IGN review? Its an utter joke (as expected). The reviewer actually praises the story and writing and claims that it succeeds on a serious story-telling level (which we all know is bull-shit), and he emphasizes all of the wrong points that DMC fans don't give that much of a shit about (if at all), like the graphics and environmental effects.

Really, you just can't trust the reviews by these big sites anymore. You could tell that the IGN reviewer was really grasping at straws trying to make this game seem more bad-ass than it really is. Adam Sessler's review felt sincere and honest. For what its worth, despite what any reviews might say, I think that the game looks fun, just not anywhere on the level of DMC1, 3, or 4, and if most of the positive reviews for this game are in the same vein as that IGN review, then I don't think its worth trusting them.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on January 14, 2013, 05:40:54 PM
Did they call the writing "Oscar-worthy"?

Enslaved isn't a bad game at all, but it's strong points were most definitely not the combat or the platforming. If they were working on, say, a Mario game, I would be equally worried.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 14, 2013, 05:47:55 PM
Gotta say, Max and Matt's reaction to the intro was legitimately funnier than any one-liner in the game. I like how they did playthroughs of the 4 previous games before heading into this one. Honestly, Maximillian is one of the few vocal supporters of DmC that actually respects the franchise for what it was.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on January 14, 2013, 05:40:54 PM
Did they call the writing "Oscar-worthy"?

They called Nu-Dante "a much better character" despite being just as shallow as his previous incarnation, probably even moreso.

Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 14, 2013, 07:48:45 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-KenHas anyone actually read or watched the IGN review? Its an utter joke (as expected). The reviewer actually praises the story and writing and claims that it succeeds on a serious story-telling level (which we all know is bull-shit), and he emphasizes all of the wrong points that DMC fans don't give that much of a shit about (if at all), like the graphics and environmental effects.
I watched it.

True, no one really cares about story in these types of games, but to say that DMC fans don't care for graphics... Not likely. I'd say as soon as DMC3 came out fans began to care for graphics. I mean nobody would say this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtiXwvni6ng) looks great if the graphics were poor (I know it don't hold up, but at the time that was one of the better looking games on the ps2). Then again I'm also a graphics whore so, yeah, whatever. Now I'm not going to be one of those that try to defend review sites since I don't take them seriously. To me it's just another opinion with numbers tacked on.

I'm actually split on this, though. I'm watching part 2 to that little playthrough of Max and Matt. From a gameplay perspective I like what I'm seeing. And then NT are even throwing in little quibbles (maybe jabs?) at the Dante we know and love. Yes, it's nowhere near as good as DMC3 or 4, but it's winning me over in trying it out.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 14, 2013, 07:52:01 PM
I kind of agree with Grave. I see a decent and fun game in those videos, but not a fantastic one. It won't be a day one buy for me like Metal Gear Rising, but I'll definitely grab it during a Steam sale (though only if I can skip those awful cutscenes; don't want another Other M on my hands).
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 14, 2013, 08:00:40 PM
The graphics in this game are kinda good. I like the art direction for the enviroments, but I think DMC4 looks better overall. I agree with Matt in that the graphics look pretty bland in the real world segments.

At the end of the day, this really should've been it's own seperate franchise with only mild references to DMC. It really would've worked out better in the long run.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on January 14, 2013, 08:03:35 PM
The problem is if it will sell or not using Capcom logic.

If it bombs = DMC as a whole is dead
It it sells = Ninja Theory games is all you'll get

There's no situation that will get anyone a DMC5 since this is Capcom.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 14, 2013, 08:14:00 PM
Quote from: Grave on January 14, 2013, 07:48:45 PM
True, no one really cares about story in these types of games, but to say that DMC fans don't care for graphics... Not likely. I'd say as soon as DMC3 came out fans began to care for graphics. I mean nobody would say this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtiXwvni6ng) looks great if the graphics were poor (I know it don't hold up, but at the time that was one of the better looking games on the ps2). Then again I'm also a graphics whore so, yeah, whatever. Now I'm not going to be one of those that try to defend review sites since I don't take them seriously. To me it's just another opinion with numbers tacked on.

I didn't say that DMC fans don't care about graphics, but that its one of the things that they don't care "that much" about. In that regard, DMC3 has dated graphics by today's standards, yet its still widely regarded as the best game in the series among the core fan-base. Why do you think that is? Because people care about the gameplay more than anything else. While DMC4 was good, it made a lot of lazy design choices that made the game a bit less fun to play that its predecessor, and despite having vastly superior graphics, a majority of people that you ask who have played both games will still say that they prefer DMC3 over the 4th installment.

Its the same for people most Ninja Gaiden fans preferring Ninja Gaiden Black over the 2nd game because of the more balanced gameplay.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 14, 2013, 09:10:28 PM
According to the GameSpot review of this game, the old DMC games were "tales of adolescent fantasy" and this new DMC game shows "restraint" in that regard and incorporates "maturity" into its story.

....So, yeah, the plethora of over-the-top grotesque imagery in this game clearly shows how much "restraint" this game is capable of, and quite obviously the extremely juvenile dialogue and fowl language that this game has to offer clearly shows that its marketed to a mature audience. You'd have to be a complete idiot not to see that. Its not like THIS is the game that's an adolesent fantasy at all. Now those classic DMC games that knew not to take themselves too seriously and were more about having fun with the ridiculousness of the story were clearly just out of control works of exploitation and pandered to the deluded daydreams of prepubescent boys. Yes, that makes a TON of sense.

No, but seriously, I can't believe it but it actually happened. GameSpot's take on DmC's "brilliant" story is even LESS credible than IGN's, where you at least got the sense that the IGN reviewer really knew deep down that the story was bad but just said that it was good and avoided elaborating on that point because he clearly had to BS some points to justify giving the game a higher score and not making his entire site sound like a bunch of complete idiots for hyping up this game so much and saying that fans were overreacting to it. The GameSpot reviewer seems to downright BELIEVE that DmC tells a genuinely good story. Somebody give that douche-bag a book to read. He clearly needs experience in the basics of good story-telling.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 14, 2013, 09:35:26 PM
Watching the final battle with Mundus, thoughts so far:

- Not too keen on Dante using the death of Mundus' child to taunt him.

- Dante's character development is so forced and by the numbers. so suddenly he cares for mankind after not giving a shit at the start of the game? Bullshit. I can see him starting to care for a select few people, but not for mankind as a whole, way too sappy for my tastes.

- When I first watched the cutscene, it voice-acting made it sound like gay porn. Not gonna lie.

- The characters' animation for this cutscene look so weird. That scene with Vergil destroying the Hell Gate just looked so...bland and unexciting

- Not too sure what to say about Mundus' demon form

- "I AM MUNDUS!" "YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE!" ugh

- Oh my god, I don't know whether or not it's the directors fault, but Dante's VA sounds so bad. There was this scene where Vergil gets sucked in to Mundus' core (or something) and his VA delivers the most unconvincing yell ever. It was quite hilarious.

- So the Mundus fight is just a rehash of the Poison fight from the demo? That's really weak. He looks really easy to beat too. I guess it looks fun for what it is, but I would expect a bit more of a challenge from a Final Boss.

- The music is the most un-final boss-ish sounding thing ever

- (After Mundus is defeated)

Vergil: "We did it"

Dante: "I did it"

Okay, I get this was supposed to be witty banter between brothers, but that exchange felt really weak. Oh well, I guess it beats Vergil making a dick joke.

-There's a scene afterwords where people on twitter start tweeting about the now broken masquerade and get "#demons" to trend. What's worth noting about this scene is seeing an account named after tameem's tweet "WE HAVE AWOKEN". Guess Tam-Tam did manage to insert himself into the game after all.  :lol:

Next up is the Vergil fight. Now that I've seen the context, I can safely say that A) The fight felt really forced and phoned in, and B) Dante looks even more unsympathetic for almost killing Vergil since they were getting along so fine up until that point. Seriously, I didn't get a sense of tragedy between these two at all. Such a shame, so much more could've been done between there relationship, their bond and eventual falling out could've been the saving grace of the story.

Bottom line: if you get this game, skip the cutscenes whenever possible because the story is complete and utter shit, try not to view the gameplay as a DMC game and more of a Heavenly Sword sequel, and play your own custom soundtrack.

If the Vergil's Downfall DLC is any good, I might just give this a rental. Vergil's gameplay actually looks pretty fun.


Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 14, 2013, 09:10:28 PM
According to the GameSpot review of this game, the old DMC games were "tales of adolescent fantasy" and this new DMC game shows "restraint" in that regard and incorporates "maturity" into its story.

....So, yeah, the plethora of over-the-top grotesque imagery in this game clearly shows how much "restraint" this game is capable of, and quite obviously the extremely juvenile dialogue and fowl language that this game has to offer clearly shows that its marketed to a mature audience. You'd have to be a complete idiot not to see that. Its not like THIS is the game that's an adolesent fantasy at all. Now those classic DMC games that knew not to take themselves too seriously and were more about having fun with the ridiculousness of the story were clearly just out of control works of exploitation and pandered to the deluded daydreams of prepubescent boys. Yes, that makes a TON of sense.

No, but seriously, I can't believe it but it actually happened. GameSpot's take on DmC's "brilliant" story is even LESS credible than IGN's, where you at least got the sense that the IGN reviewer really knew deep down that the story was bad but just said that it was good and avoided elaborating on that point because he clearly had to BS some points to justify giving the game a higher score and not making his entire site sound like a bunch of complete idiots for hyping up this game so much and saying that fans were overreacting to it. The GameSpot reviewer seems to downright BELIEVE that DmC tells a genuinely good story. Somebody give that douche-bag a book to read. He clearly needs experience in the basics of good story-telling.

These gaming journalist wouldn't know a good story if it bit them in the ass. It's if a game's story is dark and edgy enough with political/social commentary as subtle as a sledgehammer, then it's a good story.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 14, 2013, 11:39:13 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 14, 2013, 08:14:00 PM
I didn't say that DMC fans don't care about graphics, but that its one of the things that they don't care "that much" about. In that regard, DMC3 has dated graphics by today's standards, yet its still widely regarded as the best game in the series among the core fan-base. Why do you think that is? Because people care about the gameplay more than anything else. While DMC4 was good, it made a lot of lazy design choices that made the game a bit less fun to play that its predecessor, and despite having vastly superior graphics, a majority of people that you ask who have played both games will still say that they prefer DMC3 over the 4th installment.

Its the same for people most Ninja Gaiden fans preferring Ninja Gaiden Black over the 2nd game because of the more balanced gameplay.
We play the same game. I even have it listed in my favorites for crying out loud. I don't need people telling me that it's played for the gameplay. That's obvious. All I'm saying is that the graphics played a role (big role) in getting everyone's attention through that cutscene, especially back around that time since MGS3 came out a year before and we've seen perhaps the max potential of the ps2. I don't want to speak for anyone, but I don't think DMC3 would've gotten the attention it got if it had DMC1's graphics. Graphics may not be the first thing they care for, but it's certainly not the least thing either. That's all I'm saying. I didn't bring up gameplay because there was no need to.

Future reference. "Core" fanbase = jibberish talk to me.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 14, 2013, 11:48:41 PM
Quote from: Grave on January 14, 2013, 11:39:13 PM
All I'm saying is that the graphics played a role (big role) in getting everyone's attention through that cutscene, especially back around that time since MGS3 came out a year before and we've seen perhaps the max potential of the ps2. I don't want to speak for anyone, but I don't think DMC3 would've gotten the attention it got if it had DMC1's graphics. Graphics may not be the first thing they care for, but it's certainly not the least thing either. That's all I'm saying. I didn't bring up gameplay because there was no need to.

The problem with what you're proposing is that DMC3 sold the least of ANY Devil May Cry game (even worse than 2), so I don't believe that people care quite as much about graphics as you let on. That's not to say that people don't care about graphics at all, but if what you were saying was really the case then DMC3 would have would much better than the 1st and 2nd games for having far superior graphics to them.

The reason DMC3 still got a lot of attention (not relative to the first 2 games, but as an action game in and of itself), is because of the kick-ass trailer it got and the high review scores it garnered as well.

QuoteP.S. "Core" fanbase = jibberish talk to me.

How so? Every game series that features deep gameplay usually has core fans who care far more about that than anything else. Its true for Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Street Fighter, and most deep action and fighting games in general.

That said the casual audience usually makes up the bulk of the sales, and I suppose that they probably care more about the graphics than the die-hard fans of the series. Though, once again, that's not to say that the die-hard fans don't care about graphics either, but at least for a DMC game you won't see any of them bitching about the graphics just because it doesn't turn out to be the best looking game around at the time of its release.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on January 14, 2013, 11:52:45 PM
DMC1 was huge at the time it came out, but I don't remember any buzz being over the graphics- it was all about the combat.

I dunno, I don't remember many games last gen (or two gens ago now, I guess) where the graphics were huge factors for the sales outside of a handful of Xbox games, Super Smash Bros. Melee, and Resident Evil 4.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 14, 2013, 11:59:53 PM
I do think that graphics help PUSH the sales of some games if they are already bound to do relatively well. That is to say, if a game garners decent review scores and people were on the fence about it, then some pretty looking graphics might just be that extra little something that sways a few more people to cough up the cash an buy it. But, by itself, it doesn't really do jack shit.

Now, I can say that as far as the look of a game goes, while good graphics and good art design (the latter probably going a longer way with most people, and a combination of the 2 being the most effective) can offer up some limited help in boosting a game's sales, bad graphics or bad art design can, does, and has hurt the sales of many games, regardless of gameplay. One famous example of this is The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. The graphics themselves were extremely good for the time (especially for a Gamecube game). The problem is that a lot of people hated the cartoony art-style and didn't even give the game a chance, and thus sales figures for the game fell well short of Nintendo's expectations (though it did still sell well overall, but it sold less than half of what Ocarina of Time had sold).
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 15, 2013, 12:00:56 AM
If anything DMC1 was praised for its atmosphere more than anything. It's the only game in the series that combines gothic horror and over-the-top action the way it does.

I know DMC3 and 4 were praised for their graphics, but they weren't really known for them the way other games are.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 15, 2013, 12:04:45 AM
Quote from: Ensatsu-KenThe reason DMC3 still got a lot of attention (not relative to the first 2 games, but as an action game in and of itself), is because of the kick-ass trailer it got and the high review scores it garnered as well.
EXACTLY. My wording sucks, but picture that kick-ass trailer with DMC1's graphics. Wouldn't be pretty at all, but then again, like I said, I can't speak for anyone. I just think people cared about graphics more than they were letting on. Probably not to the point of it being the be all, end all, but definitely moreso of getting them interested. Also, I'm talking about back then (when folks were real shady). I know people don't care about graphics now (otherwise, folks wouldn't be talking about retro gaming :)). I think the point I'm trying to get at is if DMC3 didn't have those graphics, per se, it would've been something along the lines of Vanquish (or one of those games that's good but forgotten)

QuoteHow so? Every game series that features deep gameplay usually has core fans who care far more about that than anything else. Its true for Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Street Fighter, and most deep action and fighting games in general.
Much like anime fans, just think of it as an issue I have.  ;)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 15, 2013, 12:20:38 AM
Quote from: Grave on January 15, 2013, 12:04:45 AM
EXACTLY. My wording sucks, but picture that kick-ass trailer with DMC1's graphics. Wouldn't be pretty at all, but then again, like I said, I can't speak for anyone. I just think people cared about graphics more than they were letting on. Also, I'm talking about back then. I know people don't care about graphics now (otherwise, folks wouldn't be talking about retro gaming :)). I think the point I'm trying to get at is if DMC3 didn't have those graphics, per se, it would've been something along the lines of Vanquish (or one of those games that's good but forgotten)

I sort of see what you're saying. I can definitely see the game having done a bit worse in sales if it had DMC1's level of graphics. However I do still think that it would have managed to stay afloat based on its trailer (even with lesser graphics) combined with the good review scores it got; though, perhaps even the review scores would be a bit lower if the graphical quality was reduced, but back then it wouldn't hold the game back by as much as it would these days.

That said, if anything about the aesthetic looks of a game has a big influence on a game's popularity, its definitely the art design more than the graphics (and yes, those 2 terms aren't one in the same). Graphics are more about the polygons that a game can push while still maintaining a consistent frame-rate, and art design is obviously the style of art that the game goes for. I already talked about how The Wind Waker had great graphics but its cartoony art design just didn't appeal to most people and thus they never gave it a chance, even if the gameplay was great. If DMC3 had all of a sudden radically changed its art style in the same vein, then I think that would have hurt it as well.

I'm actually pretty convinced that, as good as DmC's graphics are, its art-style is going to REALLY dent its potential sales. It may still sell well, but I doubt it'll sell as much as 2 million copies because you'll have a bunch of people who are so biased against the game just because they find the character designs to be hideous, even if they are rendered in extremely detailed, high-resolution graphics (actually for some that may be part of the problem). I think THAT aspect of games has far more impact than their graphical quality, so long as they can at least support a decent level of graphics.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 15, 2013, 12:28:25 AM
The art-style reception in DmC is kind odd in that people hate the character designs, but love the enviroments. The enviroment design is the one thing people can agree on.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 15, 2013, 12:40:54 AM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 15, 2013, 12:20:38 AM
That said, if anything about the aesthetic looks of a game has a big influence on a game's popularity, its definitely the art design more than the graphics (and yes, those 2 terms aren't one in the same). Graphics are more about the polygons that a game can push while still maintaining a consistent frame-rate, and art design is obviously the style of art that the game goes for. I already talked about how The Wind Waker had great graphics but its cartoony art design just didn't appeal to most people and thus they never gave it a chance, even if the gameplay was great. If DMC3 had all of a sudden radically changed its art style in the same vein, then I think that would have hurt it as well.

I'm actually pretty convinced that, as good as DmC's graphics are, its art-style is going to REALLY dent its potential sales. It may still sell well, but I doubt it'll sell as much as 2 million copies because you'll have a bunch of people who are so biased against the game just because they find the character designs to be hideous, even if they are rendered in extremely detailed, high-resolution graphics (actually for some that may be part of the problem). I think THAT aspect of games has far more impact than their graphical quality, so long as they can at least support a decent level of graphics.
That's probably where I was messing up at. I usually put graphics and art design in the same category, but point taken.

We're in agreement with DmC's art design though.

Quote from: RynnecThe art-style reception in DmC is kind odd in that people hate the character designs, but love the enviroments. The enviroment design is the one thing people can agree on.
I know, right. As for me the environment's color need to be toned down a little. Not to the point where it looks bland like in their "real" world, but enough to where it don't mess with my eyes. With the environment moving all over the place, and running upside down, my eyes get enough of a workout, but to throw the bright colors in really messes me up.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 15, 2013, 12:48:29 AM
Yeah, I can agree with that, myself.

One particular example stands out to me, and that's the warped night club level. While the design of that stage itself looks interesting enough, the over-saturation of bring neon colors can be really straining on the eyes, and that's just how I felt watching a Youtube video of someone playing through the level. I could only imagine how much more grating it would be for me to look at if I were to actually play the game on a proper HDTV and be exposed to these extremely bright colors all at once in all of their way too over-saturated glory.

I might actually end up having to adjust the brightness or color level on my TV if I ever get the game and play through that level.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 15, 2013, 06:20:25 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAsDpvuCIAAkscj.png:large)

:joy:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 19, 2013, 11:04:31 PM
Playthrough from folks who are fans of the series, but willing to try this out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAmfsBaXmAU&list=SPkQQz0joyg7s0WG1hrssf07ICUt6fYBU1&index=1). This is what I needed. An opinion from folks who're fans of the original series, but not bias enough to keep them from playing the game. While I'm still on the fence about the game, it's about other stuff that tend to keep me away from certain games, rather than Dante and Vergil, but judging from what I've seen of their playthrough the combat looks fun and the platforming looks pretty good. They haven't gotten to the club scene yet, though...

Edit:

It's not a complete playthrough, but they got through half of the game (I think)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rosalinas Spare Wand on January 19, 2013, 11:17:36 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on January 15, 2013, 06:20:25 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAsDpvuCIAAkscj.png:large

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bSgQzIs3Zk

le fuck you face.jpg
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 20, 2013, 12:30:07 AM
So, I've been playing through more of DMC3 on Hard mode. At this point I've managed to get almost all of the upgrades for my Devil Arms. All I have left to buy is Air Raid for Nevan (which I held off on until now being that its a DT only move) and Air Hike for Beowulf. I still think its stupid that you have to buy Air Hike for 3 separate weapons just to use it when you have those weapons equipped. In that regard, I believe that DMC4 got it right by just having the Air Hike ability treated as a base upgrade rather than a weapon-specific one.

As always, I have Rebellion equipped with me at all times, so I only ever alternate with one weapon of choice, but I've been switching them out with each new mission this time around. While Agni & Rudra is still my favorite secondary weapon to use, I have been having a lot of fun with Cerberus and Nevan as well (Beowulf feels kind of "meh" to be, honestly, but to be fair I haven't practiced with it enough yet). In particular I love the whole concept of Nevan being guitar/scythe that can double by functioning as a melee weapon as well as somewhat of a ranged weapon as well (as a majority of its attacks deal out electric projectiles). That said, while I've been practicing with it, I've been having a noticeably hard time pulling off the move "Jam Session" (Crazy Nevan Combo II) where Dante slides down on his knees and produces an AOE electrical charge that damages all surrounding enemies that are next to you. Its a damn cool attack, gives you a ton of style points, and feels really satisfying to pull off, but for whatever reason I have trouble inputting it in consistently. It says in the move list that I need to "tap" the left stick (it doesn't indicate any particular direction) and simultaneously press "Y" repeatedly, which makes it seem like the same input for Rebellion's "Stinger. However, I've tried inputting in the command and about half of the time Dante just ends up doing Nevan Combo II (regular). Well, at any rate I'll still keep practicing with it, but I hope I can get down how to input the command flawlessly as I really want to use the weapon to help boost my style score, as that particular attack really raises up my style meter by a lot.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 20, 2013, 08:26:14 PM
Maximilian's review of DmC. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA8RZawxbgU)

While I don't agree with him at all about the characters being likable, I do think this is the best positive review of the game so far. Mainly because he doesn't slam fans of the old series.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 20, 2013, 08:28:38 PM
I was quite shocked to see that RPS liked DmC. They're usually very hard on games and are definitely not paid off by anyone. Then again, pure PC gamers like them pretty much only have DMC 4 to compare it with.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 20, 2013, 08:34:20 PM
I'm actually really interested in the PC version of DMC4, as according to what I've heard its a damn good port, which is surprising considering that its a Capcom game, and they've had a pretty shaky history when it comes to PC ports of their other classic games. Its apparently the version with the best visuals by far (which is no surprise), and also improves on the console versions of the game in a number of ways, in terms of having exclusive features to it that are not possible on the console versions of the game. That said, I'm plenty satisfied with my XBOX360 edition of the game, but it sure would be nice to have a good PC to play it on.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 20, 2013, 08:36:25 PM
DMC 4 was their first good PC release as far as I know. And yeah, it's excellent. Runs like butter, looks beautiful, and has extra modes that improve the game vastly (Legendary Dark Knight, Turbo) IMO.

You're not exactly missing out by not having the PC port, but it's definitely the definitive version.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on January 20, 2013, 09:19:18 PM
RPS?

Angry Joe Shows review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4NaBrFkiDo)
He slams both sides while still giving an honest review.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 20, 2013, 09:29:42 PM
Quote from: Grave on January 20, 2013, 09:19:18 PM
RPS?
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/

Its writers are some of the best around, but beware of rampant PC elitism and a general "no fun allowed" attitude in the comments sections.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 21, 2013, 12:17:44 AM
Max said he would score the games like this:

Devil May Cry- 10/10
Devil May Cry 2- 5 or 6/10
Devil May Cry 3- 8/10
Devil May Cry 4- 8/10
DmC: Devil May Cry- 9/10

While I'm not really a fan of scoring things, I figured that I'd give you all my take on the games in comparison:

Devil May Cry- 8/10
Devil May Cry 2- 4/10
Devil May Cry 3- 9/10
Devil May Cry 4- 8/10

I gave DMC 1 and 4 the same score but I really like them close to the same in quality for very different reasons. The original DMC has the best level design and most memorable boss fights in the series by far, IMO. However, DMC4 has the best combat in the series by far. Its no wonder then that DMC3 is my favorite, because it feels like the perfect compromise between the 2 (at least IMO).

Quote from: Grave on January 20, 2013, 09:19:18 PM
Angry Joe Shows review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4NaBrFkiDo)
He slams both sides while still giving an honest review.

I'm not a fan of Angry Joe (though I'd easily take any of his reviews over Sage's, as I personally can't stand that guy's views on gaming), but he does at least make some pretty honest and thorough reviews. This one was pretty solid, and strangely enough feels like the most trustworthy review that I've seen yet. His line of thought seems to fall in line with what I'd think about the game if I played it. As a game on its own, I think it'd be pretty good, and well above average. The story is probably "presented" better than in previous DMC games, but any good that could come out of that story would immediately be dragged down for me by horrendous writing in terms of the characters and their dialogue. I just can't get behind a story that doesn't have likable characters, and the problem is that these characters aren't unlikable to me because they differ so much from what their classic DMC counterparts represented, but instead because they are just a bunch of ass-holes. I can say that honestly while judging the game based on its own merits rather than comparing it to the previous DMC games. At any rate, I do eventually plan to play this game, as I love hack n' slash games, and for what it is it looks like a decent one, though nowhere close to the level of tight and responsive combat of the 3rd and 4th DMC titles. That said, this seems like a great buy for when the game comes down in price and I can get it used for about $20, so I'll just wait until then.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 21, 2013, 03:53:01 PM
Costume pack WITH classic Dante look confirmed. (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-13887-DmC--Devil-May-Cry-s-Costume-Pack-Costumes-Revealed.html)

Eh, it doesn't look exactly like classic Dante, but I'd still probably bite for it, if I were to be honest. It seems that the design for that costume skin is based off of DMC3's Dante, which aside from the weird ass nipple-belt he had (which thankfully isn't featured in this costume version of Dante), is my favorite look for Dante. I'm not a fan of the italian-design coat and cowboy boots look of Dante in DMC4, to be honest, and his look in DMC1 and 2 comes off as kind of "meh" to me, honestly.

I just went to an old NG board which I hardly visit anymore to see what people there thought of the game, as a lot of the NG fans on that board are also genuine DMC fans as well (and also Bayonetta and God Hand fans, for that matter). Surprisingly, despite most of them hating on the game before it came out, a lot of them have apparently bought and played it and say that judged solely as an action game in its own right, its pretty good and overall above average, aside from the boss fights which they all seem to hate.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 21, 2013, 03:59:07 PM
I love DMC 4 Dante's look. ;D

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 21, 2013, 03:53:01 PM
I just went to an old NG board which I hardly visit anymore to see what people there thought of the game, as a lot of the NG fans on that board are also genuine DMC fans as well (and also Bayonetta and God Hand fans, for that matter). Surprisingly, despite most of them hating on the game before it came out, a lot of them have apparently bought and played it and say that judged solely as an action game in its own right, its pretty good and overall above average, aside from the boss fights which they all seem to hate.
This is EXACTLY what I thought about the demo. It's nowhere near as bad as NG 3 or DMC 2... it's actually a fairly good game. Haters gonna' hate.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 21, 2013, 04:13:11 PM
I still find the decision to scrap the targeting system to be baffling. I mean, DMC works on a juggle-based combat system which pretty much demands a lock-on feature for precise control in terms of making sure Dante actually hits and aims at the enemy that you want him to. Ironically, the only DMC game that really didn't require a lock-on feature was probably the first game, if only because the combat was more about just taking down the enemies that being stylish in fighting them (and for the record, I hardly  ever targeted enemies in that game unless I had to shoot them). If anything, you could argue that some of the gameplay gimmicks almost demand being able to properly lock-onto enemies, such as using the grapple mechanic to pull small enemies towards you or to pull yourself towards big enemies, as well as that other whole gameplay gimmick in which you can only attack certain enemies with certain types of weapons and you encounter a variety of these enemy types in the same fight. In that situation, you pretty much want precise targeting to make sure that you don't accidentally hit the wrong enemy with the wrong weapon, and then leave yourself open for some punishment which wasn't really your fault.

At any rate, it doesn't seem to be as huge as an issue as it could have been based on the feedback of people who have played the game, but they have all still complained about it and noted down that its a gameplay flaw.

Other than that, though, the game looks fun. The lack of Dante being able to have different styles to switch between does ensure that the game will never reach the crazy level of combat depth that DMC3 and 4 were able to (ESPECIALLY DMC4).
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 21, 2013, 04:17:41 PM
Maybe for the next DMC, they could have Capcom develop the core combat and Ninja Theory design the stages. I think that'd be amazing.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 21, 2013, 04:23:00 PM
I wouldn't mind if "DmC" got a sequel, and if I like this game enough when I try it, then I'll probably end up picking up the sequel if it ever really does get one. That said, I wish that this series wasn't replacing the classic DMC series, and instead was just a spin-off series of its own. Even if I end up enjoying this game, that still doesn't change the fact that I really like DMC 1, 3, and 4, and I would genuinely love to see a proper DMC5 in the future. Unfortunately, that future is now completely unlikely. If this game does well, then it'll replace the old series. If it does poorly, then DMC is dead forever.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 21, 2013, 04:27:40 PM
I think DmC happened because the DMC team has actually moved on to other projects, like Dragon's Dogma - which will be getting a sequel, I believe. As much as I enjoy DMC, I'm actually glad Capcom is letting them do new things, as I'd hate to see them forced into pumping out Devil May Cry games (and nothing else) for eternity like Kojima Productions and Metal Gear.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 21, 2013, 04:33:19 PM
I have no problem with them doing other things at all. I just hope that this isn't the end of the classic DMC series, like....forever. I wouldn't mind waiting a few years for something like DMC5, but I still would want it to happen. To me, a series should only stop in its tracks if its in danger of getting stale. While I'm not the biggest fan of DMC4, I did not consider it a stale game in the least, and I felt that there were still genuine improvements the series could make to make for an even better game if they were to come out with a 5th game. Instead what we got was a reboot, which for what it is looks like a fun game, but its also far removed from the previous games, even in terms of the general gameplay which moves in a radically different direction than the focus of the classic games. I'm fine with that as it keeps DMC as a franchise fresh as a whole, but that doesn't mean that there is no room for the classic style of DMC games as well. That said, it makes sense that they can't make one anytime soon since the team behind DMC 3 and 4 is working on other stuff, and I'm glad that they are, but I do hope that they would one day consider coming back to take the reigns of the classic DMC series. That's just how I feel, though.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 21, 2013, 04:36:20 PM
They should just farm DMC 5 out to Platinum. I'm sure Kamiya would be more than happy to do it. ;)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 21, 2013, 04:40:54 PM
I think Kamiya's gone on record as saying that if he wanted to make another DMC game, he would've stayed at Capcom. That combined with the fact that the two companies parted ways under less than flattering circumstances makes Platinum developing a DMC title (or any Capcom title for that matter) rather unlikely. :(

I don't mind the DMC 3-4 team working on other things, but if that's the case I'd rather Capcom just let the DMC franchise take a break rather than reboot it.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 21, 2013, 04:48:27 PM
Quote from: Foggle on January 21, 2013, 04:36:20 PM
They should just farm DMC 5 out to Platinum. I'm sure Kamiya would be more than happy to do it. ;)

Haha, That's a good one.  :D

But we all know that there is WAY too much bad blood between Platinum and Capcom to ever have them collaborate on a game. ;)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 21, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on January 21, 2013, 04:40:54 PM
I don't mind the DMC 3-4 team working on other things, but if that's the case I'd rather Capcom just let the DMC franchise take a break rather than reboot it.

I suppose Capcom felt that if they let the DMC series be on hiatus for too long, then people would just lose interest in it and forget about it altogether, and if they were to come up with a new DMC game too late then there wouldn't be enough people who'd buy it. Now, that's Capcom logic speaking. They clearly underestimate how dedicated a fanbase for good game series' can be. That, and they could still sell a new DMC game to newcomers just as well as the classic ones if they marketed it properly.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on January 21, 2013, 04:56:27 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 21, 2013, 04:48:27 PM
But we all know that there is WAY too much bad blood between Platinum and Capcom to ever have them collaborate on a game. ;)
Yeah, it's the same reason why we'll never see RE7 by Tango or Mega Man 11 by Comcept. :cry:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on January 21, 2013, 05:05:58 PM
Mega Man X9 by Inticreates might have happened... if Inafune didn't leave.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 24, 2013, 07:11:27 PM
Sage's Review on DmC: "Dante has never felt more responsive nor more fluid in combat."

And do any of you still wonder why I can't stand this guy's reviews? Has he even played the previous DMC games to make an accurate comparison of this? The thing that bothers me about this statement is that regardless of how responsive and smooth DmC may be, the DMC games were already noteworthy for having extremely responsive controls and fluid action. Nothing about this game could make it any more "responsive" than a series of games that were already as responsive as you could get in a game. As I've said before, how much more responsive can you get than the game doing exactly what you input into your controller without fail?

As for feeling more fluid, maybe he's talking about the animations in the game which are admittedly a bit smoother than in the classic DMC games, but even so, I dislike how he claims that the gameplay and combat in DmC is just fine and completely fits in with what DMC fans would expect when he clearly doesn't seem to know the intricacies of the combat system from each game. That's another thing he got wrong in his review, when he stated that previous DMC games were primarily about the combat. The thing is, that depends. The 1st game was just as much about its atmosphere as it was about fighting enemies, and there was a lot of puzzle solving as well, so combat was a main focus of the game but not the "primary" focus (if that makes any sense). It wasn't until DMC3 that the series really became strictly associated with its deep combat system.

Also, he's one of the guys who says the story is good, and says nothing about how horrendous some of the dialogue is aside from mentioning that the game has some "cheesy one-liners" as expected of a DMC game. And, as you all know, I just can't agree with that. And yes, I've seen the ENTIRE story and all of the game in general on Youtube, so I know the whole story from start to finish....its really not good story-telling; don't listen to the people who say that it is. He also never mentions how unintentionally unlikable some of the characters, which I suppose means that he had no problems with them....and that's yet another problem I have with this outlook on video game stories, in general.

I think what really ticks me off about this particular review, though, is what he says at the end along the lines of if people don't want to check out this game because of "whatever shallow reason, then there loss." Here's the thing that a lot of game critics in general need to get about a lot of fan back-lash to DmC; only a portion of it is from outraged fanboys who just can't stand the new look of the game and that its being made by a Western developer. There are also a huge portion of people who didn't like the direction of this game for other reasons, such as the focus of the gameplay and the significant changes it made to combat. I notice how Sage never mentioned anything about how this title stripped away the numerous styles that Dante was known for having in DMC 3 and 4, which deepened the overall combat options that the game allowed you. That's actually a BIG difference in combat alone, and even Angry Joe made sure to mention that in his review as one of the downside of the games despite still giving the game a mostly positive review.

My point is that I don't mind that there are a lot of people who like this game and try to promote it as being better than what a lot of the initial haters made it out to be, but at the same time I hate how ignorantly they bash all fans of the classic games in general who weren't too keen on this reboot. They may think that everyone who isn't a fan of this new game are just ignorant people who just want Dante to have his normal "hair" back, but if that's truly what they believe then these people are more clueless than I thought.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on January 24, 2013, 08:08:21 PM
It's okay to dislike games for shallow reasons, but not like them for shallow reasons? I'm not paying $60+ for a game that I might not like. It's my money, and whatever reason I give to not wanting to spend it is valid especially in this day and age. I don't even have any feeling on the game one way or another, and I really don't care about his awful design. I still got Bionic Commando, after all.

But yeah if doesn't sell then it's HIS loss, not mine, because there will be no sequel. So fans get denied a game and I go on to play something else I'll probably like better. That's a dumb criticism of complainers that never holds water whenever I hear it.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 24, 2013, 08:54:52 PM
Here (http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/7hwwq5/dmc--devil-may-cry-60fps-comparison) is some footage of the PC version DmC running at 60 FPS.

As you can see, there is a clear difference in how much smoother the PC version looks than the console versions of the game. Too bad I don't own a good enough PC to play this game on, as I'd much rather go for this version of the game whenever I do eventually get it, if I actually had hardware that I could play it on.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 29, 2013, 08:54:00 PM
I'm not too far off from completing DMC3 on Hard Mode, now, but after that I wonder if I should take a break from Dante to complete a play-through as Vergil, or if I should just go all the way up through Very Hard and DMD mode as Dante first. I'm tending toward the latter option because my concern about switching over to Vergil is that I'll end up getting too used to his style of play, and thus have a hard time when I have to switch back to Dante and pick up from where I left off on Very Hard mode. Still, I've been eager to properly try out Vergil for quite a while, now.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 02, 2013, 01:59:11 AM
So, I'm on mission 18 of DMC3 on Hard mode, now.....Man, why did they feel the need to pad out the game like this. Just like DMC4's mission 19, there is absolutely NO reason for this level to exist, other than to round the game out to an even 20 stages, which is really stretching it for such a silly reason. Its basically just a boss rush level. Well, whatever the case is, it doesn't hurt the game that much for me in the long run, but it is rather annoying that the developers pull such a cheap trick on you. Thankfully most of the boss fights in this game are pretty decent, so I can tolerate it. The only boss fight I downright hate is the fight with Lady, which isn't frustrating because its difficult (its actually a joke, at least up to Hard mode), but because she is so damn annoying to fight since she won't ever stay still and just runs around the stage, forcing you to just take a few hits on her at a time and slowly whittle down her health in what feels more tedious than it is fun. Fortunately that's one of the only 2 boss fights in the game that you have to deal with once per play-through.

Anyways, as far as my status goes, I've finally gotten Trickster to level 3 (and I also have Sword master at Level 3). I'll stick between Trickster and Sword Master for the rest of this play-through, but I'll likely switching to Gunslinger for my 3rd play-through as Dante on Very Hard mode once I unlock that. I also leveled up my Devil Trigger Gauge (I only have 2 purple orbs left to buy for it, so its nearly at its max length), and I leveled up my Shotgun to level 3 (and I also have Ebony & Ivory and Kalina Ann at level 3 as well).
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 05, 2013, 10:50:07 PM
So, I beat DMC3 on Hard mode. Overall it wasn't much harder than Normal, but that may only be because the game allows you to keep all of your acquired weapons and upgrades form previous play-throughs on the harder difficulties. Even though, though, I didn't notice the enemy attack patterns changing up that much (I did notice that some bosses now used new or upgraded attacks, though), and if they did more damage than on Normal mode than I certainly didn't notice it. Also, they seemed to take about as much damage as on Normal mode as well.

I played through the first mission on Very Hard and NOW I can notice some clear changes. Enemy attacks seem to do nearly triple the amount of damage that they did on previous difficulties, and they seem to attack a bit more often than before. That said, they still seem to go down just as fast as in previous difficulties, which I actually really like since I hate drawn out battles from enemies that are total attack-sponges, anyways (I especially hate boss fights that are designed like that). Also, I decided to try and go with the Gunslinger style for this run through the game (which I still currently only have at level 1). I mainly alternated between Sword Master and Trickster when I played through both Normal and Hard mode (and I have both styles maxed out at level 3). I figured its time for me to change things up with a style that I barely ever touched until now. I feel like it could be really useful if I find out how to properly apply it to certain situations, but for now it definitely makes my actual gameplay worse than it was before in terms of my skill level, since its at a low level and I currently don't know how to properly utilize it to my advantage. That, and I'm so used to the abilities granted to be my Sword Master and Trickster that I'm still so used to using only those 2 styles, so it feels weird when I press the style action button and just have Dante shoot some more.

Also, as far as my guns go, I have all of them maxed out at level 3 except for Artemis, which I currently only have at level 2, but I only need a few thousand more red orbs to be able to afford its level 3 upgrade, and then I'll officially have all of Dante's weapons (both melee and ranged) fully maxed out at their top levels.
Title: DMC3 Boss Fight Ratings
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 07, 2013, 12:30:07 AM
I've decided to go ahead and rate the DMC3 boss fights because....I'm bored and can't think of anything else to do right now (and I'm starting with Cerberus, since I don't count the Mission 2 boss as a real boss despite it having a health bar):

Cerberus: (5/5) - This is a perfect first boss fight to the game. Its challenging and will force you to learn that you can't just button mash your way to victory, but its also a really fun boss fight once you learn how to fight him properly. Its creative in that each of this 3 heads utilize different attacks, so its easier to predict what he will do once you realize which head does what when its at the center, and its a ton of fun to stun-lock this guy if you catch him at the right time when he's reeling back in from his charge forward move.

Gigapede: (3/5) - This boss fight is more weird than anything else. Really, its probably the easiest boss fight in the game once you realize what to do, but it is still pretty fun to jump on his back and wail on him with melee attacks while he's completely defenseless to do anything about it.

Jester (1st Battle): (3/5)- Its kind of laughable and easy, but it goes by quick and it doesn't last too long, so I find it to be a mild little amusement, if nothing else.

Agni & Rudra: (5/5) - This is a very fun boss fight for how fast-paced and dynamic it is. Its a pure sword-to-sword....to sword fight. It may be 2 on 1, but its still completely fair if you know how to properly evade Agni's and Rudra's attacks. You can choose to either focus on killing one of them first and then having to fight a powered up version of the other brother, or if you find that form to be too much to deal with, then you can wisely whittle away the health of each of them while keeping both alive until they both only contain a mere sliver of health, in which case you can finish them both off quickly before one has the time to grab his fallen brother's sword. Its a cleverly designed battle that's just fun to play through.

Vergil (1st Battle): (3/5) - Its a pretty simple battle and Vergil only utilizes a few attacks here. Its fun for what it is, but you can clearly tell that Vergil isn't utilizing his full potential here, and thus the boss fight feels a bit too one-note (at least on Normal and Hard mode).

Leviathan: (4/5) - Yeah, sure, this is a pretty basic boss fight in that you just have to weaken his secondary organs to open up his central one, and then you have to take down the health of his primary organ in order to kill it, and you basically rinse and repeat the process until you destroy that organ (and consequently Leviathan). Its a very simple concept but its still fun and satisfying to play.

Nevan: (4/5) - This is yet another boss that's really simple when you find out how to properly evade all of her attacks and defeat her. I did have a lot of trouble with her at first, but after a while I learned her patterns and then she became ridiculously easy to fight, as her attacks are actually some of the easiest to evade out of any boss in the game, especially if you have Air Hike and are also using Trickster while fighting her.

Beowulf: (3/5) - This boss gave me a lot of trouble at first, but like most bosses I found a way to fight him that was pretty straightforward and easy. In this case, it works to have Trickster and also to be as aggressive as possible. Whenever he tries to use the cages on you, just run up and get behind him and wail on him with any weapon of your choice, and he'll be defenseless to do anything about it while he's stuck in the animation of stomping to make a cage fall down and will then try to throw the cage at you to no avail (since he can't turn around and aim at you if you're standing behind him). In most cases, you can just stick next to him and continue attacking him mercilessly. Whenever he tries to attack you himself and do his fist-pound move, just use trickster to safely dash out of the way (you get i-frames from doing the Trickster dash, as well). Then you can continue to repeat the process of unapologetically bashing the guy's brains out.

Jester (2nd Battle): (2/5) - This guy was kind of amusing before, but with the introduction of that stupid ball that he stands on, it becomes harder to hit him and it just drags out the battle. It doesn't really become much harder, but it does become much more of a nuisance, and its then that you realize that you would have just been better off skipping this fight altogether, since unlike the first fight with Jester, this one is actually only optional, and in the original version of DMC3, even the first Jester fight wasn't mandatory, so he's a pretty pointless boss.

Greyon: (3/5) -This boss is hilariously easy once you realize that you can just jump on top of the cart that he's carrying, and just keep attacking that (which whittles down his health since apparently the cart counts as part of his body, and vice versa since he's part of the cart). Fighting him the normal way isn't really that much fun, IMO, but its is fun to just use whatever you want while riding on the cart as he pulls it along (yes, he actually carries you on it, which is pretty funny), and all the while he can't do a single thing to damage you except for when he does a teleportation move, which throws you off the cart leaving you to sometimes get hit by one of its spikes before he completely disappears from the screen. Other than that, nothing else he does can hit you while you're on it, except for those bubbles of his that slow down time (but those don't do any actual physical damage to you, so they're just a nuisance more than anything else). Overall, the fight is OK, but its really only saved by that fun trick to ride along with Greyon while simultaneously kicking his ass.

Vergil (2nd Battle): (4/5) - This one is suitably more challenging than the first, but Vergil is still pretty easy here and still doesn't utilize his full arsenal of moves, so its merely just one step up from the first fight rather than the complete package.

Lady: (2/5) - This boss battle is....more pathetic than anything else. She's not hard or frustrating....just silly and uninteresting to fight. And....yeah, that's about all I can think to say about this boss fight. Overall, its pretty forgettable.

Jester (3rd Battle): (2/5) - Its just slightly more of the same bull-shit as the 2nd battle with him. Yeah....and that's it.

Doppleganger: (3/5) - Another REALLY simple boss that's still fun to fight just because you can wail on him when he's stunned from the light. Its ridiculously easy to avoid his attacks. All you have to do is move from shutter to shutter, attacking them to open them up and reveal the light, and you move around the room until you illuminate all of it and give Doppleganger no shadows or dark corners to hide in. Whenever he tries to attack you, all you have to do is merely jump....and that's it, he'll miss you, and you can just carry on your marry way. Its simple and easy, but its still pretty fun to feel like your on top of something so close to the end of the game, when everything else is going out of its way to be as hard as possible for you.

And then we get to....

....Arkham: (1/5) - ......................Fuck this boss fight..........just....just fuck it to hell. This is the polar opposite of what makes a DMC2 boss fight bad, though its just as bad if not worse than any of those (that even includes the helicopter boss). Easily the most dreadful part of this game (thank god you only have to fight this douche-bag once). This ass-hole uses some of the cheapest attacks out of any boss in the series. Those stupid worm things that he excretes from his body are so fucking annoying to evade, especially since they home in on you and do a TON of damage if they hit you. Those stupid eel things that he summons when he goes into hiding are nothing but a fucking annoying way to drag out the battle while they can also easily chop down your health since those damn red eels can juggle the hell out of you if you get hit in a bad spot. But that's not enough. Believe it or not, the boss fight actually gets even WORSE when Vergil joins the fight. The first time I played through the fight I thought that it was kind of cool to have Vergil by your side, and I did beat him on the first time that I got to the point where Vergil comes in, but I didn't realize that I just merely managed to get lucky on that go-around. Upon replaying the fight on Hard mode, I came to realize just how useless Vergil is. He's actually not computer controlled. He mimics your moves, and you constantly have to summon him to your side if you want him to attack what you want him to attack. In this case, its better off to just ignore him completely. The problem is that his inclusion into the battle handicaps both your Devil Trigger and whatever style you have equipped, which effectively reduces your own offensive ability forcing you to either rely on him or just play through the rest of this battle with this unfair handicap, which is basically what I had to do. And speaking of Arkham, what a shitty and disappointing look for a final boss to have. The whole encounter was him was being built-up as this epic encounter in which he'd take on all of the powers and presumably the form of Sparda, and that would have made for an epic boss battle. Instead what we got was a purple blob of oozing shit (I'm serious, that's exactly what he looks like). Its unimaginative, completely disgusting to look at, and easily makes for the worst boss fight that this game has to offer. Even the few other crappy boss fights look like absolute masterpieces in comparison to this one. Man, what an utter waste this fight was....

Vergil (3rd Battle): (5/5) - And then we get a complete 180 and the game saves itself with this brilliant final boss fight. Vergil finally realizes his full potential and comes at you with his full arsenal of attacks. Its not some gimmicky giant final boss that's an utter joke (a la DMC4), nor does it completely change the rules of the game in order to try and grant you with something epic (a la Mundus, though I did still enjoy that boss fight). Its basically an intense 1 on 1 battle between 2 extremely skilled and powerful brothers. Its challenging but fair, and its completely dynamic in that it can either be as slow or fast-paced as you want it to be, as Vergil effectively reacts to your movements. If you take your time and try to stall things out, so will he, by wisely trying to use ranged attacks on you while standing his ground. If you try to go all-out and wail on him, he'll counter with an onslaught of ferocious melee attacks of his own. There is no one single right way to approach this battle, as there are multiple strategies that work, and all the while there is not guaranteed easy way out other than a player's own level of skill. This is essentially DMC3's equivalent of the Doppleganger boss fight from Ninja Gaiden. Its the best boss fight in the game. Absolutely brilliant.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on February 07, 2013, 12:40:37 AM
I agree with most of your ratings, though I would give Vergil a 4/5 rating, since I honestly found him pretty hard the first time I fought him.

Arkham is the worst boss in the DMC series, save for maybe the helicopter in 2. Even once you figure out that you can easily beat his worms by jumping and spamming the rocket launcher, the second half of the fight is still hell because it takes away your styles. Countless times, I tried to press circle to dodge, only to summon Vergil to my side and get butt-blasted by Arkham. Argh.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on February 07, 2013, 12:43:06 AM
To clarify, I meant Vergil 1. Vergil 3 is totes a 5.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 07, 2013, 12:51:02 AM
Quote from: Foggle on February 07, 2013, 12:40:37 AM
I agree with most of your ratings, though I would give Vergil a 4/5 rating, since I honestly found him pretty hard the first time I fought him.

Well, I gave Vergil a different rating for each fight with him (the 1st one got a 3/5, the 2nd a 4/5, and the final one a 5/5, based on the increasing level of skill it took to fight him). Keep in mind that I'm basing all of these ratings off of my experiences with these bosses on Normal and Hard mode, which for the most part weren't too different (I hear that they get A LOT harder on Very Hard and Dante Must Die mode, though). I found the first fight with Vergil to be pretty easy because I was using Trickster at the time (and it was still only level 1, at that). The process is really simple. You try to attack him, but he'll block you, and then he'll immediately attempt to counter you. So, as soon as he manages to successfully block your attack, do a Trickster dash TOWARD him (this is important), as he'll initiate his counter-attack, but you'll past through him unscathed due to the i-frames provided by the dash animation. At that point, you are directly behind him and in the perfect position to stun-lock him with any weapon of your choosing until he breaks out of the stun and blocks you again, at which point you simply just repeat the process with another dash until he is really low on health. At that point he'll teleport to the center of the battleground and do a power-up animation. He'll then try to use ranged attacks on you or dash towards you and use an aggressive melee attack on you. In the former case, just stinger him and continue wailing on him while he's stunned and he'll do go down. In the latter case, just use your Trickster dash as before and keep smacking the shit out of him until he's dead. Its actually a really simple process that doesn't take much practice to get down. ;)

QuoteArkham is the worst boss in the DMC series, save for maybe the helicopter in 2. Even once you figure out that you can easily beat his worms by jumping and spamming the rocket launcher, the second half of the fight is still hell because it takes away your styles. Countless times, I tried to press circle to dodge, only to summon Vergil to my side and get butt-blasted by Arkham. Argh.

Its even worse on Hard mode, since his worms do even more damage to you, and they are actually harder to avoid than on Normal, since you have to realize that jumping once isn't enough because it still homes in on you for a little longer (you have to run in a circular motion, jump (but don't do a double-jump), land, and then jump again. Its pretty stupid. And when he does hit you with one of those worm things, he'll be a cheap bastard and hit you with one of his tentacles while you're stunned from that attack to deal out a shit-ton of extra damage. Its the most infuriating thing ever when you can't effectively dash away or use your style of your DT to your advantage thanks to this ass-face's cheap enemy design.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on February 07, 2013, 12:59:41 AM
One thing thath helps make Vergil less useless in the Arkham fight is to just sit back and shoot him, since Vergil mimics whatever you do, he'll just keep wailing on Arkham with a combo. So essentially just sit back and shoot him while Vergil does all the leg-work. I also think you can counter his worm/tentacle attack by repeatedly summoning Vergil.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on February 07, 2013, 01:02:43 AM
Yep yep, Vergil 1 is quite easy now, as I learned that very strategy after a few deaths against him. ;)

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 07, 2013, 12:51:02 AM
Its even worse on Hard mode, since his worms do even more damage to you, and they are actually harder to avoid than on normal, since you have to realize that jumping once isn't enough because it still homes in on you for a little loner (you have to run in a circular motion, jump (but don't do a double-jump), land, and then jump again. Its pretty stupid. And when he does hit you with one of those worm things, he'll be a cheap bastard and hit you with one of his tentacles while you're stunned from that attack to deal out a shit-ton of extra damage. Its the most infuriating thing ever when you can't effectively dash away or use your style of your DT to your advantage thanks to this ass-face's cheap enemy design.
I always jump twice anyway, just to be safe, since sometimes one jump isn't enough even on normal! Seriously, fuck that boss.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 07, 2013, 04:14:58 PM
Oh, BTW, I never actually mentioned this but as far as DMC3 and 4 go, I actually don't use the games' standard control schemes. Way back when I was playing DMC4, I had a hard time adjusting to using the "Y" button (I play on an XBOX360 pad of course, since that's the console I own, and as far as I'm concerned it works excellently for 3D action games) for normal attacks, and using the "X" button for shooting since I was so used to playing NGB and NG2 all of the time. I then realized that the game gave you the brilliant option of adjusting the controls any which way to your own personal preferences, which is something that I feel EVERY action game should have. I immediately made changes that were more suitable to my play style.

For Dante in both DMC3 and 4, I have the standard attack button mapped to the "X" button instead of "Y" (the equivalent of square instead of triangle on the PS2/3 controller), which not only feels more natural to me given how used to Ninja Gaiden I am, but also has a practical use in that the "X" button is right next to the "A" button, making it feel much smoother to pull of one of DMC's more advanced techniques in the form of jump canceling. I still suck at my timing for jump canceling, but I've been able to actually pull it off successfully in the middle of combos every now and then since my standard attack button is mapped adjacent to my jump button, so I can just slide my fingers across easily to go from one to the other. Now, I've heard that more hardcore players actually map the jump button to RT/R2 in order to have more precise timing of their jumps in relation to their attacks, but that's about where I draw the line. For me, jumping in games has ALWAYS been on one of the face buttons, and at that it has almost always been on the lowest button of the controller. That's just the way I have grown up playing video games, so there's no way that I'd be willing to invest the time to map something as essential as jumping onto a shoulder button, no matter how much more precision it may offer me. So, I retained my jump as the "A" button, and I moved my ranged weapon attack button to the "B" button, which is once again reminiscent of the Ninja Gaiden controls which I am so used to. For me, it works just fine since now I'm used to controlling that way in DMC3 and 4, as well. Now, for Dante, my style button is mapped to the "Y" button. This feels fine to me since I've grown pretty used to it. I especially feel right at home while playing with the Sword Master style (my personal favorite style in the game) using this control scheme. It very much mimics NG's X and Y, heavy and light attack, control scheme, and while DMC and NG are 2 very different games, the actual controls feel very comfortable to me when I play them this way, since I'm so used to it. And that's about it for my changes with Dante. I didn't bother tampering with any of the shoulder buttons and such.

With Nero, its a tad different. I still have my normal attack mapped to "X" like with Dante, but I leave the Devil Bringer arm alone at the "B" button, and "Y" is just for taunting. I actually have shooting for Nero assigned to the RT button, as I found out how useful Nero's charge shot is once you realize that you can continually charge it up mid-combo if you hold down the shoot button while attacking enemies. This is also extremely useful on bosses, even up to the harder difficulty settings. Now, of course it is impractical to attack while holding down the shoot button if its mapped to a face button, so I mapped it to RT which I can comfortably hold down and release in the middle of any combo I want in order to deal out a ton of extra damage and also get a lot of style points added to my score in the process. It took me some getting used to in order for this control scheme to work out, but it felt very rewarding when I finally got used to it. The only problem is that it causes me some confusion whenever I switch between the play-style of Dante and Nero. Needless to say, though, I haven't played DMC4 in a while, so I have no doubt that his control scheme would feel awkward as hell to me if I went back to playing him now.

At any rate, I just thought it'd be interesting to share my own personal control preference as a little fun fact of sorts.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 08, 2013, 11:40:41 PM
So, I got up to mission 5 of DMC3 on Very Hard mode. The main cause of difficulty in this mode is that enemies do A LOT more damage to you and are also a bit more aggressive. Also, in some cases, tougher enemies appear earlier in the game, though this doesn't happen quite as much as it would on a game like Ninja Gaiden Balck and such, as for the most part the enemy placement seems to remain the same throughout the majority of the game.

At any rate, its still a sufficient challenge, and it basically gives me much less room for error than before. As for my status, I currently have all of my devil arms and guns fully upgraded, and I have 8/9 Devil Trigger slots, as well as 75% of my max possible Health Bar (I still have a few secret missions to clear, as well as a few more blue orbs to buy, in order to max it out the rest of the way). Now, as for my styles, I have both Trickster and Sword Master maxed out at level 3, however, I still only have Gunslinger and Royal Guard each at level 1, and I have been trying to play more with those styles during this play-through. The problem is that they do me very little good on this difficulty when they are at such a low level and I can only utilize their most basic functions. For that reason, I may end up going back to an earlier difficulty in order to gain some more experience with those styles, and hopefully level them up at least once, each. I'm not sure if Gunslinger will really be all that useful to me, though, but I can definitely see the use in Royal Guard on higher difficulties. If you can master that ability, it can be insanely powerful against tough enemies.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 12, 2013, 12:37:00 AM
So, I played some more DMC3 today, but I didn't make any progress in Very Hard mode as I went back to Easy mode (which I hadn't even touched before) just for the sake of leveling up and practicing with my Gunslinger and Royal Guard styles. The problem here is that I couldn't practice much if only because the enemies are significantly weaker on this difficulty and die with just a few hits. They are extremely fragile to the point in which I found it more challenging to keep any enemies alive long enough for me to practice on since if I botched a counterattack with Royal Guard and hit them without a charge-up from a block, the enemies would still take significant damage anyways and only a few mess-ups would kill them off, so I'd be winning either way. Its then that I realized that I hadn't played Bloody Palace mode yet, so I thought I'd try that out instead.

I probably should have just done that in the first place. The enemies in this mode seem to be set to have their default amount of health pertaining to Normal mode, which means that they are more ideal to practice combat on. Through this mode, I got my Royal Guard skill up to level 2, plus an additional 30,000 EXP towards maxing it out at level 3, and I also got myself around 30,000+ red orbs in the process. For my first time attempting Bloody Palace mode in this game, I suppose I didn't do to bad. I got an achievement for passing 666 floors (I didn't actually pass that many floors, but I have no idea how the whole process works in this mode). I died right after fighting and defeating Vergil, since I only had a small sliver of health left after finishing the battle with him, and died immediately after one hit to the next enemy on the next floor. The reason I did so crappy on this particular battle is because I wasn't used to fighting him with Royal Guard, and no matter how perfect my timing was, he could just break past my guard, making the skill pretty useless in my encounter with him, so I ended up getting hit a lot being that I'm used to evading his attacks with Trickster. At any rate, this game's version of Bloody Palace is noticeably easier than DMC4's Bloody Palace (which is ironic considering that this is the harder game, overall). I found it much easier to clear floors in this game and barely even took any damage until my fight with Vergil, in which I fucked up royally and lost nearly all of my health. That said, if I were playing with a style that I were more comfortable with such as Trickster or Sword Master, I have no doubt that I could have made it much further along in this mode than I did (and this was my first attempt, as well). In DMC4, you start encountering tougher enemies as early on as before reaching the 20th floor, and on top of that you also have a cumulative time-limit to deal with, so that can screw you over as well. That said, I still like DMC3's Bloody Palace mode better if only because I just like DMC3's enemies more, since I have more fun fighting them (with a few annoying exceptions, though that is easily negated by DMC4's own set of annoying enemies).
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on February 12, 2013, 01:10:13 AM
Quote from: Ensatsu=ken(I didn't actually pass that many floors, but I have no idea how the whole process works in this mode).

Basically:

Water tower/portal thing = advance 1 floor
Electric/Wind tower/portal thing = advance 10 or so floors
Fire tower/portal thing = advance 100 floors

You also get a green orb that replenishes a significant amount of health each time you go through a water portal, the only time you don't is if the water portal leads you to a boss floor (I'm not sure which floors have a boss).

A useful method in the Bloody Palace is to keep going through fire portals, and only go to for a water portal when you're low on health. Naturally this has its drawbacks, as you're pretty much SOL if you happen to run into a boss when your health is low. I cleared 3912 floors with this method.

Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 12, 2013, 01:36:41 AM
So then, the lightning portal is useless, I take it? :sweat:

Yeah, I figured the different portals take you up by different amounts of floors based on which one you pick, but I wasn't sure how it worked. I do like this whole branching structure of the mode, though. With DMC4, you just have a linear trek from floor 1 to 100 with no possible variation to it, which I feel makes it a bit less interesting, personally.

Anyways, on my first time through Bloody Palace mode, I made it to floor 747, and once again I only really died because I was ill-prepared for the Vergil Boss fight (I actually encountered him with near full health, as well). If I were to play through it using a style that I'm more comfortable with, I don't doubt that I could make it at least twice as far as that on my next attempt.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on February 12, 2013, 01:48:09 AM
The lightning portal is useful if you want to pace yourself or feel overwhelmed by the higher-level enemies.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 12, 2013, 01:52:01 AM
So, going by the fire portal will usually ensure that you fight tougher enemies in exchange for moving up 100 floors, whereas going by the lightning or water portals will typically grant you with weaker enemies (with the exception of boss fights) but progress you by far fewer floors, is that correct?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on February 12, 2013, 02:56:46 AM
More or less.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 12, 2013, 03:24:09 AM
Cool! :thumbup:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 12, 2013, 11:29:41 PM
So, I didn't notice this before, but quite a few reviews for the reboot credited its "new" feature of allowing you to unlearn certain upgrade moves in order to experiment with other ones. That is to say, you could spend thousands of red orbs to attain one move, but later on decide that you want to try out another move, and instead of earning all of those red orbs again, you could essentially unlearn a move that you had already purchased and get back all of the corresponding red orbs for that move to learn and experiment with another move. Now, that feature is definitely great and all, but am I the only one who realized that this feature was already implemented back in DMC4, or do some of these reviewers just clearly not do their research?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on February 12, 2013, 11:36:34 PM
The latter.

Seriously, it's like these reviewers never played DMC 3 and 4 and only went by what they heard...which is probably what it is.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 15, 2013, 10:50:46 PM
I finally got a chance to play some more DMC3 today, albeit just a little bit. I played through a little bit more of Easy mode just to get my Gunslinger style up to level 2, so now I have more than just the default abilities for each style (and I have both Trickster and Sword Master at their max level). Gunslinger can be kind of fun for being stylish, but I don't see much practical use in it for tackling the harder difficulties, and now that I'm resuming my Very Hard mode play-through, I don't think I can see myself using it at all on this difficulty (or Dante Must Die, for that matter). It seems like something that more fitted to when I play on a more manageable difficulty just to be stylish and have fun.

As for Very Hard mode, I think I've adopted my new strategy for how I'll tackle most of the rest of the game on this mode. Before I said that my favorite secondary weapon in the game was Agni & Rudra, but while they are fun to pull off combos with on the easier difficulties (that includes Hard mode as being among the "easier" stuff in the game ;) ), they are a bit harder to use properly on the higher difficulty settings. In this regard, Beowulf has quickly become my new favorite secondary weapon for these more challenging parts of the game. When you first get the weapons they seem kind of dull because they are slower than the other weapons and are a bit harder to get used to, but once you realize how effective of a technique jump-cancelling is, and how the jump-cancel attack with Beowful is not only the easiest to pull off in regards to timing among any of the weapons, but also the most powerful one of them as well, they instantly become the deadliest weapon in the game, even out-classing Rebellion, IMO. By this point, I've gotten down jump-cancelling with Beowful pretty well, so I can use it as a reliable strategy to fight tougher enemies and bosses.

On top of having the best weapon-set to go into the difficulty with, I also need to use the most useful styles. I've quickly learned that Royal Guard is extremely useful on the harder difficulties once you get used to using it, which is much easier said than done. At this point, I'm still not very good at my timing with this ability, but I'm gonna need to practice with it and die a few times in the process in order to get it down properly, which is going to be pretty necessary for some of the toughest fights in the game, so that's really all there is to that. For other segments that aren't quite so demanding, though, I'm fine with just using Trickster, which is by far the easiest style to utilize and can be pretty useful even on the higher difficulties. So I'll most likely only be switching on-and-off between the Royal Guard and Trickster Styles on my Very Hard (and subsequently my Dante Must Die) play-through. While Sword Master is a fun ability as well, and maybe a bit more useful than Gunslinger, it still doesn't seem like the best option for the upper difficulty settings, at least not compared to the main 2 that I'm using now.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 03, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
So, just out of curiosity, for any of you guys out there who are DMC fans, if it were ever announced that we'd be getting a proper DMC5, what would you guys like to see from it? What would it take for you guys to make it a game that could potentially be considered the best in its genre for its time?

For me, I'd of course like to see even further additions to the combat system and whatnot. Personally I think that they should find a way to make Dante's Royal Guard style part of his base move-set, as I'm a huge fan of counter-mechanics in fighting and hack n' slash games. Also, in general, I think the game should finally be the one to take place after DMC2 in terms of chronology of the story, and the setting could pick up with Dante in hell, essentially. This could lead the way to much tougher enemies that finally forces Dante to be a tad less cocky (though still as cheesy and hilarious) and from a character point of view, it'd be nice to see how he acts under the pressure of facing tougher foes than usual that would all start really testing the full limits of his power. Also, Dante being in hell would be a good excuse to have Vergil make a reappearance in the game, as well as Dante finally coming face to face with Sparda, and depending on the circumstances he meets him under, that could be a potentially bad-ass boss fight.

I would also like to see a level design much more akin to DMC1, or if I were to be so bold something as richly designed as Ninja Gaiden Black, or even full-on like a Metroid or Zelda game in how you have a very interconnected world to navigate. I feel that sort of level design actually suits a hack n' slash game perfectly, and it would work for DMC as well. Actually, it might as well go for a Resident Evil sort of level design again, as that has always worked the best for DMC games.

Anyways, I'm just curious to here everyone else's thoughts on the subject to gauge what people really like about the DMC series in the first place, and where they would want to see it go. i'd ask a similar question for Ninja Gaiden, but right now I'm so pissed off at the people currently managing that series that I don't even want to think about it for a while.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on July 03, 2013, 04:31:00 PM
Gameplay like Ninja Gaiden 2 mixed with Bayonetta, level design like Ninja Gaiden Black, story/cutscenes like Devil May Cry 3, and music like No More Heroes would be my perfect hack n slash.

Strictly speaking of DMC series, gameplay like DMC4 Dante, level design like DMC1, story/cutscenes like DMC3, and music like DMC3 but with more tracks.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 03, 2013, 04:38:05 PM
Quote from: Foggle on July 03, 2013, 04:31:00 PM
Gameplay like Ninja Gaiden 2 mixed with Bayonetta, level design like Ninja Gaiden Black, story/cutscenes like Devil May Cry 3, and music like No More Heroes would be my perfect hack n slash.

For me, It should take the enemy AI from DMC1/NGB, the visceral combat-style of NG2 while still retaining a DMC juggle-happy sort of vibe, the overall variety in set-pieces offered up by Bayonetta's style of gameplay, and it should top it all off with a story that can actually properly convey the more serious parts of DMC1's story in terms of tone (preferably with better voice actors), while throwing in a fair amount of DMC3-style over the top cutscenes for good measure.

QuoteStrictly speaking of DMC series, gameplay like DMC4 Dante, level design like DMC1, story/cutscenes like DMC3, and music like DMC3 but with more tracks.

I'll be honest: I've never been a fan of the music in DMC games. I think there were some good (though ultimately forgettable) tunes in the mix, but what they need to do is spice up the in-level music with more variety, have some different combat music while also removing the godawful vocals from it completely, and they could also help their variety by adding different tones of music instead of just your choice of gothic or metal-inspired pieces.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on July 03, 2013, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 03, 2013, 04:38:05 PMI'll be honest: I've never been a fan of the music in DMC games.
Same here; I like the more atmospheric songs, though. I just think DMC3 had the best battle music of the five games so far.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 03, 2013, 05:03:35 PM
Who scored the music for most of the good classic RE games? Whoever that is, Capcom should get him or her to score the music for future DMC games. I think the series could do with some good, atmospheric music.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on July 03, 2013, 05:04:56 PM
A more visceral version of Bayonetta's combat with Dante's DMC4 gameplay, the ability to dual-wield certain weapons, have some of Nero's DT moves in base form and make the Red Queen's Exceed ability easier to pull off, and dynamic music for boss battles ala Metal Gear Rising. Something like Bayonetta's torture attacks or NG2's Obliteration techniques would be nice too.


Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 03, 2013, 04:38:05 PM
I'll be honest: I've never been a fan of the music in DMC games. I think there were some good (though ultimately forgettable) tunes in the mix, but what they need to do is spice up the in-level music with more variety, have some different combat music while also removing the godawful vocals from it completely, and they could also help their variety by adding different tones of music instead of just your choice of gothic or metal-inspired pieces.

Aw, I like the godawful vocals. I dunno why, but I like the Industrial-metalish(?) music, it just feels like it fits DMC for some reason.

That being said, I wouldn't mind more variety for certain characters. Like Dante gets the normal sounding vocal tracks, while Vergil's battle themes sound more in the style of Ultra Violet,  and Nero's songs would be more punk-rock inspired.

Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 03, 2013, 05:11:24 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on July 03, 2013, 05:04:56 PM
make the Red Queen's Exceed ability easier to pull off

This especially. Maybe I just suck, but I STILL can't pull the exceed ability off during normal combat in any reliable fashion. On a few swings I may get lucky, but overall the timing required to pull it off consistently is ridiculous.

QuoteNG2's Obliteration techniques would be nice too.

I'd also say it'd be cool if you could execute throws/grab moves at the end of combos like in NG2, as well. That would be amazing in a DMC game, especially as it would offer a really kick-ass way to end long combos, IMO, or even chain them into new ones.

QuoteAw, I like the godawful vocals. I dunno why, but I like the Industrial-metalish(?) music, it just feels like it fits DMC for some reason.

I'm sorry, I should've been more specific. I don't actually mind the use of metal-ish music in DMC games. It suits the game just fine in terms of tone. I just wish there was more variety to the soundtrack than just 80% metal music with the other 20% being composed of effective but limited gothic-themed scores.

QuoteThat being said, I wouldn't mind more variety for certain characters. Like Dante gets the normal sounding vocal tracks, while Vergil's battle themes sound more in the style of Ultra Violet,  and Nero's songs would be more punk-rock inspired.

Yeah, something like this is more along the lines of what I'm talking about. I just want more variety, really.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on July 03, 2013, 05:41:05 PM
I could never figure out how to use Exceed either.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 03, 2013, 06:37:23 PM
Quote from: Foggle on July 03, 2013, 05:41:05 PM
I could never figure out how to use Exceed either.

Well I do know HOW to use it. I just can't use it consistently.

Essentially you have to press the button you have the Exceed ability assigned to at a VERY specific time-frame during a swing (your window of opportunity is literally only like a couple of frames out of the 60 FPS that this game runs at), and doing so will light up 1-3 bars on your Exceed meter depending on how close your timing is (even getting 1-bar is freaking hard as fuck to do). its a useful technique once you master it, but that's just it, I flat-out can't master it. My timing and reflexes are just not that physically good.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 05, 2013, 11:36:32 PM
I beat missions 8 and 9 of DMC3 on Very Hard mode today. Honestly, aside from a few key fights, the game never really feels that much harder on the higher difficulty levels. I imagine DMD mode will change that since enemies have the ability to devil trigger on that difficulty, but on Very Hard mode, its all a matter of just knowing how enemy patterns work. Bosses do attack more often on this difficulty, but by this point I have already mastered most boss patterns, so its just a matter of being more patient in waiting for an opening to attack.

Still, its a ton of fun to keep replaying this game, mostly to just really hone in my skills on pulling off awesome combos and such.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on July 07, 2013, 11:56:47 AM
Hmmmm, what would I like to see in DMC5? First off, it has to be made by the 3/4 team.

I want an end to small rooms being locked/areas being locked. Dante needs to have a lot of space to move around. I liked how much space some parts of the beginning of Nero's campaign had. Also, you should almost always be able to leave through the door/space you came from and only the door/space you have to advance through should be closed off until you defeat all the enemies. When you come back, all the enemies should be revived until you actually beat all the enemies so players don't just pick off enemies one by one by coming back and forth.

I obviously want Vergil to return. First as a boss, then as a playable character. I would love for them to strike some balance between his Nelo and Vergil moves.

Separate campaigns for any playable character. Well for Dante and Vergil basically. I want Vergil to actually fight Dante and not himself in his campaign, have his own cutscenes and for both to have most of their bosses be exclusive to their campaign. Basically, the twins should be in the same general setting but visit different levels there and only meet up to fight each other and for important story parts. I would also like Nero to show up and be playable for a couple of levels to switch things up, have him have a few new weapons and fight some enemies that can break out of Devil Bringer. Also, after Vergil and Dante's story modes are beaten, I would like to see them let you play through them as the other brother. Plus, have Nero playable for an entire campaign after either one is beaten.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 20, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
So, I just thought that I'd list my play-style preferences that I have developed over my 30+ hours of playing DMC3:

Favorite Devil Arms Combo: Rebellion and Beowulf
Rationale: Rebellion is pretty much the best "bladed" weapon in the game, in that its pretty much an all-purpose weapon and well-balanced with little weaknesses. Beowulf, on the other hand, is the best blunt weapon in the game. Cerberus is fun, but lacks a double-jump, and its harder to consistently pull off jump-cancels with it, whereas jump-canceling with Beowulf is both extremely useful and extremely powerful, and it makes quick work of the stone enemies like the Damned Chess pieces and the Blood-goyles (in their solid forms).

2nd Favorite Devil Arms Combo: Rebellion and Agni & Rudra
Rationale: I just like swords a lot. In this case, the combo isn't the most practical, but I really do enjoy using these weapons together with the Sword Master style to pull off some really awesome combos. Additionally, Agni & Rudra is also a great weapon to use against the Arachne, even if they aren't too common of an enemy in the game.

Favorite Gun Combo: Ebony & Ivory and Kalina Ann
Rationale: Ebony & Ivory is just the perfect weapon for both stringing together combos and keeping certain enemies stunned for a bit. The guns have a decent range to them, and while they barely do any damage at all, they fire fairly rapidly, and they are also a good way to extend your air-time to avoid certain ground attacks with ease. As for Kalina Ann, its a very short-range gun but is extremely powerful for crowd control. If you get a bunch of enemies crowding around you and fire off a rocket from that gun, then you'll pretty much knock all of your enemies back and take an instant advantage over the entire room. It is also extremely powerful in damaging enemies when you are in Devil Trigger mode, and can be helpful against certain bosses or just tougher enemies.

2nd Favorite Gun Combo: Shotgun and Spiral
Rationale: The shotgun is short-range but has amazing knock-back properties can can really help you take advantage over certain enemies, and can also stop enemies in their tracks and even propel them to the ground when they initiate charge attacks at you. Spiral is also a slow weapon, but it has an amazing range and while it can't be fired in the air just like Kalina Ann, it can be extremely damaging to certain enemies if used properly. Together, both it and the Shotgun can also have their rate of fire artificially increased by switch-canceling, and switch-canceling these weapons makes for a particularly deadly combo against you enemies and even against some bosses.

Style Preferences:
1. Sword Master (Rationale: Its the most fun to use since I'm a guy who likes beating the crap out of stuff more than anything else)
2. Trickster (Rationale: Its the most practical style to use, and the air-dash is insanely helpful under any circumstances)
3. Royal Guard (Rationale: Its extremely powerful and effective if you know how to use it right, but its hard to master)
4. Gunslinger (Rationale: It can be fun to use, but to me it just feels like the least suited to my particular play-style)

Current Control Scheme Of Choice (for XBOX360 Controller):

A- Jump
B- Shoot
X- Attack
Y- Style
All other buttons are set to default

Rationale: The default control-scheme wasn't suited to my play-style in terms of allowing me to capitalize on the deeper aspects of this game's combat, so much like with Nero in DMC4, I changed the control scheme to make certain advanced tactics a bit easier for me. The best example of this is with jump-canceling, which is MUCH easier by having my melee attack button immediately adjacent to the jump button, which allows me to press both of them in rapid succession, which is needed to pull off most jump cancels being that the timing required for this skill is VERY specific.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on July 25, 2013, 10:41:22 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 03, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
So, just out of curiosity, for any of you guys out there who are DMC fans, if it were ever announced that we'd be getting a proper DMC5, what would you guys like to see from it? What would it take for you guys to make it a game that could potentially be considered the best in its genre for its time?

For me, I'd of course like to see even further additions to the combat system and whatnot. Personally I think that they should find a way to make Dante's Royal Guard style part of his base move-set, as I'm a huge fan of counter-mechanics in fighting and hack n' slash games.

I should've answered this earlier. Sorry for getting to this so late.

It's no secret how much I like DMC3 and DMC4. To me, DMC4 is just as good as DMC3, but what puts 3 over 4 just a hair is Vergil. I already consider Dante and Vergil the best characters ever made, but I feel Vergil is just that ideal character for me. I have no problem with Dante's personality whatsoever, but Vergil being so cutthroat really won me over.

With that being said, I don't really know how the combat can be improved from DMC4. I think I read in reviews that people had an issue with the combat being nearly the same as DMC3, and I'm sorta of the opinion that if it's not broke don't fix it (kinda contradict myself since I'm looking for something new in the Zelda games lol). I don't mind the idea of implementing Royal Guard more, although I never used it. I guess if I had to say something about improving combat, make it more visceral/impactful. I know it's blasphemous, but the way DmC's combat is (no way is it better than DMC3/4's combat), that last hit just make it feel so good, and even then I guess this is the main reason why I like Nero as well. Sure he don't have the styles as Dante, but all of Nero's moves just felt so good, and then Exceed made it even better.

As for what I want if a DMC5 were to be announced, a Zelda-like adventure. I don't need the long dungeons (the key searching can be tedious at times), but when you enter a door, while it's brief, it does take away from the action for a brief second. Very small, but I'd like it to be continuous or if there is a cutscene, go right into it. Kinda like MGS4 transition from cutscene to gameplay. I don't know if I'm explaining that right, so hopefully people know where I'm going with that.

While I don't recall having much of an issue with the camera in the DMC series I would like to see (again blasphemous) God of Wars camera be implemented more. That way it could free up the right toggle for something else. If there's one thing I liked about GoW series it's that the camera was never an issue. It was always in the perfect position and never interfered with the combat. If more games in this genre were to follow this I'd be a happy camper.

QuoteFavorite Devil Arms Combo: Rebellion and Beowulf
Rationale: Rebellion is pretty much the best "bladed" weapon in the game, in that its pretty much an all-purpose weapon and well-balanced with little weaknesses. Beowulf, on the other hand, is the best blunt weapon in the game. Cerberus is fun, but lacks a double-jump, and its harder to consistently pull off jump-cancels with it, whereas jump-canceling with Beowulf is both extremely useful and extremely powerful, and it makes quick work of the stone enemies like the Damned Chess pieces and the Blood-goyles (in their solid forms).

QuoteFavorite Gun Combo: Ebony & Ivory and Kalina Ann
Rationale: Ebony & Ivory is just the perfect weapon for both stringing together combos and keeping certain enemies stunned for a bit. The guns have a decent range to them, and while they barely do any damage at all, they fire fairly rapidly, and they are also a good way to extend your air-time to avoid certain ground attacks with ease. As for Kalina Ann, its a very short-range gun but is extremely powerful for crowd control. If you get a bunch of enemies crowding around you and fire off a rocket from that gun, then you'll pretty much knock all of your enemies back and take an instant advantage over the entire room. It is also extremely powerful in damaging enemies when you are in Devil Trigger mode, and can be helpful against certain bosses or just tougher enemies.

Agreed of all accounts although, I'm more Ebony & Ivory and Shotgun. I just love the knock-back properties of the shotgun. I must admit, though, that I've never actually did any combos with the guns. I've seen them before, but I've never implemented them into my game.

QuoteStyle Preferences:
1. Sword Master (Rationale: Its the most fun to use since I'm a guy who likes beating the crap out of stuff more than anything else)
2. Trickster (Rationale: Its the most practical style to use, and the air-dash is insanely helpful under any circumstances)
3. Royal Guard (Rationale: Its extremely powerful and effective if you know how to use it right, but its hard to master)
4. Gunslinger (Rationale: It can be fun to use, but to me it just feels like the least suited to my particular play-style)

I'm more of Trickster guy myself. If I were to rank them.. Trickster, Swordmaster, Gunslinger would be my top 3. I've never used Royal Guard.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 25, 2013, 11:41:32 PM
Quote from: Grave on July 25, 2013, 10:41:22 PMIt's no secret how much I like DMC3 and DMC4. To me, DMC4 is just as good as DMC3, but what puts 3 over 4 just a hair is Vergil. I already consider Dante and Vergil the best characters ever made, but I feel Vergil is just that ideal character for me. I have no problem with Dante's personality whatsoever, but Vergil being so cutthroat really won me over.

From a gameplay standpoint, I think that the little that I've played of Vergil is fun, but his lack of a double-jump is a serious issue for me, since I am so used to having that ability that I just end up screwing myself over on so many occasions when I play as Vergil and instinctively try to use that feature in certain situations. Other than that, though, his combat is very unique, and still pretty fun.

QuoteWith that being said, I don't really know how the combat can be improved from DMC4. I think I read in reviews that people had an issue with the combat being nearly the same as DMC3,

The people who said that don't know jack shit about the combat in these games outside of just hitting the attack button to hit things, then. The addition of the ability in DMC4 to switch between styles on the fly adds an insane amount of depth to the game's combat system alone. That, and Nero's combat is very unique from Dante's. Really, the people who complain about the combat in DMC4 being too similar to DMC3 just make no sense to me. What are they looking for, exactly? Obviously for a video game sequel, you want to capitalize on what made the previous game great, and the main thing that played to DMC3's strength was its combat, so why would they completely change every aspect of it? They might as well make an entirely new game, then. Now, if the implication is that its barely different from DMC3's combat, then like I said, those people don't know jack shit about what they are saying, and clearly either didn't play more than the game's demo, or just don't know how to play without button-mashing. That's the same BS as someone saying that Ninja Gaiden 2's combat is more of the same as NGB. The core mechanics are kept in-tact, but there is tons of depth added to NG2's combat that was never present in NGB, and its not even stuff that's so nuanced that only a pro could see it. Once again, people who make BS complaints about stuff like that clearly don't know how to even play the game.

QuoteI guess if I had to say something about improving combat, make it more visceral/impactful. I know it's blasphemous, but the way DmC's combat is (no way is it better than DMC3/4's combat), that last hit just make it feel so good, and even then I guess this is the main reason why I like Nero as well. Sure he don't have the styles as Dante, but all of Nero's moves just felt so good, and then Exceed made it even better.

I agree with this. I'm not saying that it needs to be bloody. There doesn't need to be any blood at all, really. However, to take a cue from the Ninja Gaiden games, I think more hack n' slash games, the DMC series included, should have that instant reaction from enemies upon getting hit. I mean, the NG games are among the only few hack n' slash games that go out of their way to put just as much effort into enemy animations as they do for the main playable character. Most enemies have a convincing reaction animation to getting hit, and more than the blood or any amount of violence, that's where the visceral and satisfying feeling of NG's combat comes from. In the DMC games, it feels kind of like you aren't really hurting your enemies that much until you actually manage to kill them. What I mean is that you don't get the immediate satisfaction of landing an attack on your enemies like in the NG games, though to be fair, the satisfaction in DMC games comes more from juggling your enemies in a long combo rather than in single, well-placed, and well-timed attacks.

QuoteVery small, but I'd like it to be continuous or if there is a cutscene, go right into it. Kinda like MGS4 transition from cutscene to gameplay. I don't know if I'm explaining that right, so hopefully people know where I'm going with that.

Well, yeah, at this point it kind of just doesn't cut it anymore for you to defeat a boss or something and have the screen temporarily fade to black before showing the next cut-scene. Just like in DmC, all future DMC games should just seamlessly transition from the gameplay into a cut-scene, and vice versa.

QuoteWhile I don't recall having much of an issue with the camera in the DMC series I would like to see (again blasphemous) God of Wars camera be implemented more. That way it could free up the right toggle for something else. If there's one thing I liked about GoW series it's that the camera was never an issue. It was always in the perfect position and never interfered with the combat. If more games in this genre were to follow this I'd be a happy camper.

Honestly, aside from the horrible platforming, I found DMC4's camera to be just fine for the series in terms of combat. If you pay attention to your surroundings, you'll notice that enemies in that game can never initiate attacks on you from off-screen (with maybe just a few exceptions in the entire game). So, really, there are no cheap moments occurring from off-screen, and the camera is just good enough where I can almost always see where I am and what I am doing with perfect clarity.

QuoteAgreed of all accounts although, I'm more Ebony & Ivory and Shotgun. I just love the knock-back properties of the shotgun. I must admit, though, that I've never actually did any combos with the guns. I've seen them before, but I've never implemented them into my game.

Well, as far as knock-back goes, once again, Kalina Ann technically has the most knock-back of any weapon in the game. I mean, the thing pretty much knocks back an entire group of enemies if they are clustered around you, and this works most of the time even if they are in Devil Trigger mode. That said, the shotgun has a faster rate of fire, can be shot from mid-air, and the charge-shot with it can also knock back most enemies even if they are in Devil Trigger mode, as well.

QuoteI'm more of Trickster guy myself. If I were to rank them.. Trickster, Swordmaster, Gunslinger would be my top 3. I've never used Royal Guard.

Like I said, Trickster is the most immediately practical style in the game. You could argue that Royal Guard is the most practical once you master it, but it is pretty hard to master. Trickster takes almost no skill to use correctly, and it makes avoiding most enemy attacks incredibly easy and intuitive, and also puts you in a strategic position to immediately strike back. Truth be told, its the style that I use the most in the game, myself. That said, Sword Master fits my personal play-style the most in that its by far the most fun style for me to use.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Grave on July 28, 2013, 02:45:10 AM
Quote from: Ensatsu-KenFrom a gameplay standpoint, I think that the little that I've played of Vergil is fun, but his lack of a double-jump is a serious issue for me, since I am so used to having that ability that I just end up screwing myself over on so many occasions when I play as Vergil and instinctively try to use that feature in certain situations. Other than that, though, his combat is very unique, and still pretty fun.

That reminds me, I need to go back and play DMC3 since I never got the hang of playing as Vergil. Not to mention I found it pretty hard to be fancy with the Yamato since it only did 3 hits I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). I do agree that not having a double jump was really a big issue for me as well, especially since I'm terrible at using Trick Down/Up.

QuoteI agree with this. I'm not saying that it needs to be bloody. There doesn't need to be any blood at all, really. However, to take a cue from the Ninja Gaiden games, I think more hack n' slash games, the DMC series included, should have that instant reaction from enemies upon getting hit. I mean, the NG games are among the only few hack n' slash games that go out of their way to put just as much effort into enemy animations as they do for the main playable character. Most enemies have a convincing reaction animation to getting hit, and more than the blood or any amount of violence, that's where the visceral and satisfying feeling of NG's combat comes from. In the DMC games, it feels kind of like you aren't really hurting your enemies that much until you actually manage to kill them. What I mean is that you don't get the immediate satisfaction of landing an attack on your enemies like in the NG games, though to be fair, the satisfaction in DMC games comes more from juggling your enemies in a long combo rather than in single, well-placed, and well-timed attacks.

Exactly. I also don't need the bloodshed. Just give me animations that looks like I'll feel it and you got a winner, at least from me anyway. This is why I found MGR to be so fun.

QuoteHonestly, aside from the horrible platforming, I found DMC4's camera to be just fine for the series in terms of combat. If you pay attention to your surroundings, you'll notice that enemies in that game can never initiate attacks on you from off-screen (with maybe just a few exceptions in the entire game). So, really, there are no cheap moments occurring from off-screen, and the camera is just good enough where I can almost always see where I am and what I am doing with perfect clarity.

Yeah, I didn't have an issue with DMC's camera from what I can remember. I just got so spoiled with God of War's camera that places perfectly, and you don't have to use the right analog stick for the camera. Just an option to free up the right analog for something other than rotating the camera.

QuoteWell, as far as knock-back goes, once again, Kalina Ann technically has the most knock-back of any weapon in the game. I mean, the thing pretty much knocks back an entire group of enemies if they are clustered around you, and this works most of the time even if they are in Devil Trigger mode. That said, the shotgun has a faster rate of fire, can be shot from mid-air, and the charge-shot with it can also knock back most enemies even if they are in Devil Trigger mode, as well.

I guess what I was initially trying to say was the knockback from the shotgun, while not as powerful as Kalina Ann, but had more of an impact on me. I got a kick out of shooting someone up close with the shotgun. Sorta kinda had that effect you see in action movies... (Desperado would be a nice example of what I mean :) Probably not to that degree though)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 02, 2013, 08:42:13 PM
I just beat Mission 18 of DMC3 on Very Hard mode, and I have to say: holy mother of fucking god was that chessboard fight a bitch! Keep in mind that I make it a point to almost never using healing items, more out of my own stubbornness than in actually trying to get a good level ranking. So in that regard, it took me a shit-ton of tries to get past that fight on this difficulty setting. You'd think it'd be easy to strategize for something like this, but each time that I tried something, it backfired one me in some way or the other. You'd think that its easy and you just have to destroy the King to end the battle, but then the damn thing castles with one of the Rooks any time you so much as graze it with any kind of attack. So, then you think that you should focus on taking out the rooks, but those damn Bishops keep throwing damn fireballs at you when you try to focus on them. So, then you think that you should prioritize the bishops first, then take out the rooks, then the King, but then that pesky Queen gets in the way and keeps fucking raping your health by attacking you from any given direction. The only enemies you really can afford to ignore are the Pawns and the Knights, but I ended up killing off all the pawns, anyways, just to clear up some room on the board. After a while, I just said screw strategy and had a long grind of try after try before I finally just managed to kill EVERYTHING on the board aside from the King itself.

You should have seen how hilarious it was when I had just The King and 3 Knights left on the board (yes, 3 of them, because apparently the developers of this game have no idea how Chess works other than the pieces involved with the game). As soon as it was just them, all 3 of them started spamming that stomping attack. I had almost no health left, so just 1 hit would kill me at that point, so I just played it safe and started running to the other side of the board, and then turned around and took a few pot-shots at them with Kalina Ann until they were all dead. Then just The King was left and it was even more hilariously pathetic, since he could only move a measly one space at a time and use an easy to avoid AOE attack (it was easy because there was nothing else left on the board to distract me from fighting him, and the fucking coward couldn't fucking castle his way out of this situation, anymore). I basically just used the same strategy on him as I did on the Knights, in that I just hit him with a missile, and then walked out of his AOE before he could attack, and when his attack was done I just shot him again. He barely even moved, so it was just me walking back and forth and shooting him once each time until he was dead. It took a good few minutes to kill him, but it was so worth it when I finally managed to get past that fight, which took me over an hour to finally beat. After that I just took the shortest possible route through the boss gauntlet to get the level over with (by only fighting Cerberus, Agni & Rudra, and Beowulf). On Normal and Hard mode I actually bothered to go through every single boss fight again just for the sake of completion, but on this run through the game I barely had the patience to put up with that after such a grueling fight on the chessboard. The worst part about this whole ordeal was that....it wasn't even the worst part. That's still yet to come. I have to deal with the dreaded mission 19, now, and I will most certainly be breaking the no item rule for the Arkham fight. Fuck that fight to hell.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 21, 2013, 11:58:18 PM
I just have to say that unlimited Devil Trigger practically breaks the game. It also makes Nevan the most overpowered weapon in the entire game, since with infinite Devil Trigger you also get infinite Air Raid, and you can just spam lighting attacks from high above where most enemies can't reach you. Still, I could see this feature totally spoiling me and making me a much worse player for it, so I'm going to try not to use it at all until after I beat DMD mode, and maybe Heaven or Hell mode as well, if I feel up to it. I'll try and clear Bloody Palace mode with it, and that's pretty much it. But, good lord is it fun as hell to exploit DT when you can use it for as long as you want to.
Title: Top 10 Ways To Make Us Possibly Give A Shit About DMC's Story
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2013, 12:57:15 AM
Out of sheer boredom, I decided to come up with a list of the top 10 things that Capcom can do for a future DMC game to actually make it have a really enjoyable (and maybe even legitimately good) story that we can all care about and even be somewhat invested in (I say this as someone who still enjoyed DMC3's story for what it was):

10. Give the side characters some actual characterization and development. We know that Trish was created by Mundus, and that Lady's (Mary's) father killed her mother....and that's where their characterization ends. Now, go do something else with them.  Oh, and if they decide to keep Nero and Kyrie around, do more with Kyrie other than making her the Nero's own personal Princess Peach.

9. Give Nero some fucking back-story already. How the fuck did he get his demon arm? I actually kind of want to know you pricks.

8. Do something in the story to piss Dante off. Everything is usually too easy for him, and we only ever got to see him truly pissed of at one point in the entire series, so far (when Mundus "killed" Trish in DMC1). I'd like to see more of that, please.

7. Have the next game take place AFTER DMC2 for a change, just to show us that DMC's lore doesn't end with a boring as fuck version of Dante. That would be a very bitter ending point for the series.

6. Make Dante's team at Devil May Cry (or Devil Never Cry for you hard-asses out there) an actual "team" by having more scenes with these characters interacting with each other and working on the same cases. It makes for a lot of potential chemistry between them.

5. Have a new member join the team, make them a REALLY likable character with a lot of great back-story and with tons of great chemistry with the rest of the team, and then kill them off half-way through one of the future DMC games to make everyone feel sad. I learned that from watching Angel. It's very effective. :)

4. Expand the lore of the world that Devil May Cry takes place in. This can easily be done through the form of collectible articles that you can find and read throughout the game. Classic Resident Evil games do this to great effect.

3. Just let Dante meet his freaking dad already. The possibilities of this world are so damn vague that any writer can easily BS some excuse to make such an encounter possible. After that, have his dad turn evil or be possessed or something so that you can have an epic Vergil-esque boss-fight with him.

2. Give Dante a mentor-figure to help give him some form of discipline and get him to achieve a higher level of combat that both enhances the gameplay and makes him seem even more bad-ass than before, all the while keeping Dante's fun as hell personality in-tact. I learned this from reading way too many shonen manga for my own good.

1. Make an actual fucking threatening villain you pricks at Capcom! Stop making Dante's life a piece of cake in all of these games. Make a villain who can match him in both personality and skill. No scratch that, make a villain who downright outwits Dante at every turn AND is also more skilled than him from the get-go so as they can kick his ass. You could say that Mundus was threatening, but we didn't see him until the very end. You could say that Vergil was threatening, but Dante pretty much matched his level of skill after only their first fight. The best way to make us care about a DMC story-line and really be invested in it is to make a villain so dangerous that it actually makes you wonder how Dante will overcome him. Any villain that can at least initially make Dante look weak in comparison has to be all sorts of bad-ass. It's the best way to pump you up for a DMC story, IMO.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on August 23, 2013, 01:04:32 AM
dmc2 is on the way!
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2013, 01:09:52 AM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 23, 2013, 01:04:32 AM
dmc2 is on the way!

Here's a new one:

Make the beginning of the next game in and of itself a plot twist, with the twist being that DMC2 never actually happened and was all just Dante's bad dream. It's not entirely unlike how SMB2 was just Mario's dream, except his actually didn't suck as much.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on August 23, 2013, 02:07:57 AM
Actually, depending on whether or not you consider Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne canon to the DMC franchise or not, then you can consider that game to take place last chronologically. I mean, it's not like Dante being summoned to a different universe from Hell is too far-fetched. :sly:

Quote10. Give the side characters some actual characterization and development. We know that Trish was created by Mundus, and that Lady's (Mary's) father killed her mother....and that's where their characterization ends. Now, go do something else with them.  Oh, and if they decide to keep Nero and Kyrie around, do more with Kyrie other than making her the Nero's own personal Princess Peach.

Well, 4 and TAS showed that Lady likes to bitch about Dante about whatever money he owes her, and Trish is...Trish. So yea, expanding on their personalities would be nice.

Quote9. Give Nero some fucking back-story already. How the fuck did he get his demon arm? I actually kind of want to know you pricks.

Well, the novelization of 4 did give him a bit of backstory, but it's sort of divisive among the fanbase.

Quote3. Just let Dante meet is freaking dad already. The possibilities of this world are so damn vague that any writer can easily BS some excuse to make such an encounter possible. After that, have his dad turn evil or be possessed or something so that you can have an epic Vergil-esque boss-fight with him.

An Indy 3-style plot with Dante meeting up with his Dad would be great to see. Either that, or a Sparda prequel, you can make an entire subseries considering how much stuff he's done.

Quote2. Give Dante a mentor-figure to help give him some form of discipline and get him to achieve a higher level of combat that both enhances the gameplay and makes him seem even more bad-ass than before, all the while keeping Dante's fun as hell personality in-tact. I learned this from reading way too many shonen manga for my own good.

Well, the (now non-canon) prequel novel to 1 did give Dante a sort of mentor when he had briefly lost his memory and was going by "Tony Redgrave". There's no reason they can't give Dante a mentor in the new continuity, said mentor would probably would had to have tutored him pre-DMC3, since by 4 it's pretty clear he's powerful enough on his own.

Quote1. Make an actual fucking threatening villain you pricks at Capcom! Stop making Dante's life a piece of cake in all of these games. Make a villain who can match him in both personality and skill. No scratch that, make a villain who downright outwits Dante at every turn AND is also more skilled than him from the get-go so as they can kick his ass. You could say that Mundus was threatening, but we didn't see him until the very end. You could say that Vergil was threatening, but Dante pretty much matched his level of skill after only their first fight. The best way to make us care about a DMC story-line and really be invested in it is to make a villain so dangerous that it actually makes you wonder how Dante will overcome him. Any villain that can at least initially make Dante look weak in comparison has to be all sorts of bad-ass. It's the best way to pump you up for a DMC story, IMO.

This. This so much. Aside from Vergil and Mundus, all of DMC's Big Bad's have been incredibly lame.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on August 23, 2013, 11:42:18 AM
Devil May Cry 2 is either the PS2 version of Viewtiful Joe or SMT 3: Nocturne depending on your point of view.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on August 23, 2013, 12:14:29 PM
Quote from: Foggle on August 23, 2013, 11:42:18 AM
Devil May Cry 2 is either the PS2 version of Viewtiful Joe or SMT 3: Nocturne depending on your point of view.
I have never heard people compare it to the latter before. What comparison would they use?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on August 23, 2013, 01:32:03 PM
Dante is in it.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2013, 04:48:00 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on August 23, 2013, 02:07:57 AM
Actually, depending on whether or not you consider Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne canon to the DMC franchise or not, then you can consider that game to take place last chronologically. I mean, it's not like Dante being summoned to a different universe from Hell is too far-fetched. :sly:

Considering it's the DMC2 version of Dante in that game, I'd rather not. :sweat:

QuoteWell, the novelization of 4 did give him a bit of backstory, but it's sort of divisive among the fanbase.

Yeah, I myself have never been a fan of using outside novelization and comics to expand video game story-lines. I mean, I get the reason for why they do it, but I like to see as much information as possible put into the actual game itself. It's the very reason why when people try to argue with me about why they think the story-lines in the Halo games are good, I never accept any reasoning involving anything along the lines of "well in the novels/comics, this and this were explained about this character." In order for the game's to have good story-lines, all of the major revelations and characterization should be put IN the game itself. And Capcom clearly has the budget to go all-out on a new DMC game if they wanted to, so I couldn't accept any excuses from them in that regard.

QuoteAn Indy 3-style plot with Dante meeting up with his Dad would be great to see. Either that, or a Sparda prequel, you can make an entire subseries considering how much stuff he's done.

A Devil May Cry 0 starring Sparda is one of my many dream games that I'll never get to see.

QuoteWell, the (now non-canon) prequel novel to 1 did give Dante a sort of mentor when he had briefly lost his memory and was going by "Tony Redgrave". There's no reason they can't give Dante a mentor in the new continuity, said mentor would probably would had to have tutored him pre-DMC3, since by 4 it's pretty clear he's powerful enough on his own.

Yeah, considering how insanely skilled Dante is, I fail to believe that he could have picked up such expert skills by himself. I mean, yeah, I know he's got a strong demon heritage and all, but having a lot of power at your disposal AND being extremely skilled with it are two completely different things. Maybe he and Vergil could have had the same master or something before they split off, but that might be a bit too cliche. It'd be interesting if they had found separate masters after they each went their separate ways, and you could actually have Dante square off against Vergil's own master. That'd certainly make for an interesting boss fight, if nothing else.

QuoteThis. This so much. Aside from Vergil and Mundus, all of DMC's Big Bad's have been incredibly lame.

My god, I just have to cringe whenever I think about DMC2's main "villain." :srs:

As for DMC4, I get what they were trying to do with Sanctus, and he potentially COULD have been a great villain, but they basically made him an immature power-hungry ass for Nero to do away with using his bad-ass final move. Honestly, a great villain should be one who is both intelligent and just as skilled as Dante, which is why Vergil is my favorite DMC villain so far. The only problem is that they didn't really do nearly as much as they could have done with Vergil's characterization, so that was kind of a missed opportunity, IMO.

I would've thought that the DMC anime would be a great way to capitalize on some of that potential, but apparently they never used Vergil in that show, which I feel is one of the dumbest things that I've ever heard of. Why NOT use one of the most popular characters from the DMC games in a fucking DMC anime?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on August 23, 2013, 07:15:39 PM
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2013, 04:48:00 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on August 23, 2013, 02:07:57 AM
Actually, depending on whether or not you consider Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne canon to the DMC franchise or not, then you can consider that game to take place last chronologically. I mean, it's not like Dante being summoned to a different universe from Hell is too far-fetched. :sly:

Considering it's the DMC2 version of Dante in that game, I'd rather not. :sweat:

Dante has something resembling a personality in Nocturne, basically the one he should have had in 2. He also says one of his best lines in that game ("Which would you rather end up in...a coffin or a dumpster?").

QuoteWell, the novelization of 4 did give him a bit of backstory, but it's sort of divisive among the fanbase.

Yeah, I myself have never been a fan of using outside novelization and comics to expand video game story-lines. I mean, I get the reason for why they do it, but I like to see as much information as possible put into the actual game itself. It's the very reason why when people try to argue with me about why they think the story-lines in the Halo games are good, I never accept any reasoning involving anything along the lines of "well in the novels/comics, this and this were explained about this character." In order for the game's to have good story-lines, all of the major revelations and characterization should be put IN the game itself. And Capcom clearly has the budget to go all-out on a new DMC game if they wanted to, so I couldn't accept any excuses from them in that regard.[/quote]

I understand novelizations and comics in stuff like fighting games or platformers, which are scant on actual story content to begin with, but for big budget stuff like Halo and DMC, and especially RPG's, I agree.

QuoteWell, the (now non-canon) prequel novel to 1 did give Dante a sort of mentor when he had briefly lost his memory and was going by "Tony Redgrave". There's no reason they can't give Dante a mentor in the new continuity, said mentor would probably would had to have tutored him pre-DMC3, since by 4 it's pretty clear he's powerful enough on his own.

Yeah, considering how insanely skilled Dante is, I fail to believe that he could have picked up such expert skills by himself. I mean, yeah, I know he's got a strong demon heritage and all, but having a lot of power at your disposal AND being extremely skilled with it are two completely different things. Maybe he and Vergil could have had the same master or something before they split off, but that might be a bit too cliche. It'd be interesting if they had found separate masters after they each went their separate ways, and you could actually have Dante square off against Vergil's own master. That'd certainly make for an interesting boss fight, if nothing else.[/quote]

Considering it's implied that Dante and Vergil were seperated until they were in their late-teens, I doubt they'd have trained under the same master. Speaking of which, I also wouldn't mind a game elaborating on what Dante and Vergil did pre-DMC3, since the first novel is now out of continuity.



QuoteI would've thought that the DMC anime would be a great way to capitalize on some of that potential, but apparently they never used Vergil in that show, which I feel is one of the dumbest things that I've ever heard of. Why NOT use one of the most popular characters from the DMC games in a fucking DMC anime?

Oddly enough, I don't think Vergil is so much as mentioned in the anime. I get that they couldn't have exactly shown Vergil in the present, since he presumably died in DMC1, and I imagine Capcom would want a plot point as big as Vergil's return to be in the games, but a flashback episode detailing how Dante and Vergil's first reunion would've been much preferable than whatever episode 8 was about.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2013, 08:55:02 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on August 23, 2013, 07:15:39 PMI understand novelizations and comics in stuff like fighting games or platformers, which are scant on actual story content to begin with, but for big budget stuff like Halo and DMC, and especially RPG's, I agree.

Yeah, I can understand it for fighting games (though, even then you can still tell great stories in the actual game itself), as well as any low-budget kinds of games, but big-budget, high-profile games really don't have that excuse. To go back to my problem with Halo's story-line being mostly told in the novels, it tells a ton of major events that directly involve the Master Chief which are completely left out of the main games. To me, stuff like novels and comics should be used to expand the lore of a series and primarily only be dedicated to spin-off stories and expand on side characters. All of the major events should be told through the games, though.

I think the manga and anime for DMC actually had the right idea in primarily choosing to focus on Dante's regular missions. The ones that are too small to be part of the actual games. Of course, both the manga and anime were rather underwhelming, but if handled by a better team of writers with a better series director they could do a great job of expanding on the World of DMC. They could do their job of pumping you up for the next major DMC game, which itself shouldn't rely too heavily on you having read or watched any of the spin-off stuff, but have enough nods to that stuff to reward huge fans who are into it. The main point, though, is that a new game should have a story that works as a great stand-alone piece, even if you don't know anything about DMC outside of the games (or ideally, even if you haven't played any of the previous DMC games).

QuoteConsidering it's implied that Dante and Vergil were seperated until they were in their late-teens, I doubt they'd have trained under the same master. Speaking of which, I also wouldn't mind a game elaborating on what Dante and Vergil did pre-DMC3, since the first novel is now out of continuity.

Yeah, their fighting styles aren't really anything alike, either. I mean, clearly Vergil's master didn't teach him Air Hike. :sly:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 23, 2013, 10:22:43 PM
So, uh, yeah....I just got through mission 3 on Dante Must Die mode. Remember how I kept complaining about Very Hard mode being too easy until toward the end of the game? Now I miss that mode. :'(

If any of you guys thought that the Cerberus fight was easy and no big deal on Normal or Hard mode, then play them in Dante Must Die mode and he'll make you his bitch. Yeah, I had to resort to that cheese method of switch-canceling between Ebony & Ivory and Spiral while standing at the leftmost corner of the room in order to defeat him. Using that method, I botched things up and got hit by him twice during the fight, and literally had less than a 3rd of my health left (and keep in mind that I have 19 bars of health, at this point). I know that Gigapede won't be a problem for me, but Agni & Rudra certainly will.

Oh, and as I've read on DMC boards before, DMD is the mode that will make enemies that you didn't even know could be difficult your biggest pain in the ass. On my first time playing through mission 3, I got killed within 5 seconds by Enigmas. FUCKING ENIGMAS!
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 25, 2013, 04:03:06 PM
So, today I got 3 achievements in DMC: HD Collection (all of them were from DMC3). One achievement was for completing all of the secret missions in the game, of which I still had a few that I hadn't completed until now. The second was for maximizing Dante's health bar, and I have to say that I'm actually surprised that there were still 2 blue orb fragments that I had completely missed during my numerous times of having played through the game. Those were REALLY well hidden, since I was sure that I had explored every inch of the game by this point. The final achievement I got was for killing 100+ enemies during the end credits, since I realized that I still hadn't done that yet, and it was an easy achievement to get. On the other times that I had beaten the game, I always got up to 99 enemies and the credits ended before I had a chance to finish off the hell Vanguard. Now that I was actually concentrating, though, I managed to kill off 133 enemies before the end of the credits, and I got the achievement for that as well as the bonus ending with Vergil about to go off and fight Mundus. Heh....The 2 best villains of the series squaring off against each other. Out of the things that you could show us, Capcom, that's what you choose to skip?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 30, 2013, 08:20:16 PM
So I finally got around to playing DmC, and I finished my first run through the game on Nephilim difficulty. Overall the game was just what I predicted it would be. It's an above average hack n' slash game, yet it doesn't really measure up to the older games where it really counts. The combat is fun, but despite having a lot of combos to pull off, it lacks the practicality of actually getting good at them from the older games. Additionally, the enemy design is the most bland and generic in the entire series. The AI in this game isn't interesting in the slightest, and from what I've played of Son of Sparda mode so far, that doesn't really change much. And yeah, I've already gone into it before, but the story and characters are ass for anyone who actually takes the time to stop and look at everything that's wrong with it, of which there is quite a lot.

Still, on a pure gameplay level, the game is fun, and it does seem to have some replay value to the point where I would play it again. Overall, this is how I currently rank the games:

1. Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening (Special Edition)
2. Devil May Cry
3. Devil May Cry 4
4. DmC: Devil May Cry
5. Devil May Cry 2

I'll let you guys know if if I feel any differently about this game after a second play-through. For now, though, I'm going back to DMC3 to finish off the rest of my DMD run.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on December 30, 2013, 08:36:34 PM
Are you going to go through the Vergil's Downfall DLC, E-K? That's the part of the game that looks most appealing, gameplay-wise.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 31, 2013, 12:05:50 AM
Probably, but not until after I get through the other games that I got for Christmas.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 01, 2014, 03:49:01 PM
I've made a few minor changes to my preferences in DMC3, overall.

My 2nd favorite DA combo is Agni & Rudra and Beowulf. On DMD mode, I ALWAYS have Beowulf equipped. It's hands down the single most powerful weapon in the game if you know how to use it right. It also has Rising Dragon, which is hands down the single strongest attack that Dante has available to him in this game. DmC's replacement for this weapon, Eryx, and it's replacement attack being just a generic uppercut, is an utter joke compared to Beowulf (as well as its DMC4 counterpart, Gilgamesh).

Also, my style preference is now like this:

1. Sword Master
2. Royal Guard
3. Trickster
4. Gunslinger

On DMD mode, Royal Guard is actually my most used style. This difficulty practically forces you to at least get decent at using it.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 27, 2014, 11:31:19 PM
Well, over a year after its initial release, and I finally played through all of DmC (sans the Vergil DLC) since it was free on Playstation Plus. To sum it up, it was...okay. Not too bad, but nothing really standout about it either as far as gameplay is concerned, and is a bit on the boring side. I did like how the game actually rewards you for exploration, and I wouldn't mind seeing some of the weapons in a proper DMC game. Most of the enemy demons, with the exception of the Dreamrunners, suck, even ones that should be awesome like the chainsaw guys. Likewise the bosses were pretty lame as well, the only boss that I would say is outright fun is Vergil, and even his boss fight is a joke compared to his boss fights in the main series.

Overall, it was alright. Shit story aside, it's something you can play on a slow sunday afternoon. If I can get a points card sometime this week, I'll play through the Vergil DLC and post my thoughts on that, since I hear its closer to the classic series in terms of difficulty and combat.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 28, 2014, 09:53:41 AM
Pretty much my thoughts on the game. It does improve somewhat on Son of Sparda mode where they at least mix up enemy sets on you to force you to strategize, but the problem is that the enemies in this game have only 1 or 2 attacks at best. Enemies, and especially bosses, had so many different attacks and abilities in previous games. It's what stopped the feeling of repetition since they kept doing different shit tou you, and you had to learn how to fight against all of it. This game just doesn't have anything interesting like that going for it, and the combat is inferior to previous games as well for various reasons that I don't think I need to get into since you all probably know what I'm talking about. If this game were it's own original IP I wouldn't care. But I don't get why it had to be a DMC reboot. Neither the shit story nor the inferior gameplay seem to justify it at all.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on January 28, 2014, 04:33:56 PM
Enemies also rely on cheap gimmicks like being invincible during certain attacks, or only being vulnerable to certain weapons, which just makes them annoying to fight against instead of hard.

I probably would've liked this game more if it didn't have the DMC name, and it was more of a platformer with hack'n slash elements. Like you said, it didn't need to have the DMC label on it.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 17, 2014, 08:06:47 PM
So, I just "beat" DMC3 on DMD mode. I put it in quotation marks because I didn't exactly due it by what hardcore fans would consider the legitimate way, which is to play it on Yellow Orb mode and use no items at all (I've beaten the game on Yellow orb mode, but only on Normal difficulty). To be fair, I didn't use any items during the first half of the game on this difficulty, and up until the last 2 chapters I only maybe allowed myself one or two healing items at most, and only for boss fights. But once it came to Arkham and Vergil, I just downright lost my patience. With Arkham the damage that you deal to him is pitiful at best, and in turn he can utterly destroy you with just a single attack. It's fucking ridiculous and a badly designed boss fight, so I have no qualms about spamming items to defeat him. With Vergil, while he's my favorite boss in the game, he's just plain not fun on this difficulty setting, because he spams his Devil Trigger which allows him to rapidly heal and negate all of the damage that you've done to him. You can use Quicksilver to slow down time and knock him out of it, but since you have limited DT to work with, yourself, you can't always rely on using it for how often Vergil enters into his DT state. In this case I really needed the healing items to make it through the fight. I could practice and get better at the game, but I wasn't motivated since this difficulty is frustrating more than fun, and honestly has soured my opinion of the game a little bit. This is still my favorite DMC game, but Very Hard mode is where it peaked, and I probably should've just left it at that. At any rate, I've clocked in close to (if not more than) a hundred hours with this game alone, so I'd say that I definitely got my money's worth. Now I plan to go back to DMC1 and try and work my way up that game until I conquer DMD mode, which I hear is much more of a fun challenge than with the sequels/prequel.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on May 17, 2014, 10:07:28 PM
Doesn't the infinite DT outfit you get for beating Very Hard make DMD more bearable?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 17, 2014, 11:02:11 PM
Quote from: Rynnec on May 17, 2014, 10:07:28 PM
Doesn't the infinite DT outfit you get for beating Very Hard make DMD more bearable?

It does, but I refrained from using it EXCEPT for on the Geryon fight which was a nightmare on DMD mode. However, using a super character is considered cheating by the general fan community (though, to be fair, the game will still kick your ass if you don't have the skill to properly evade enemy attacks), so I wanted to do it the right way as much as I could. I would've used it on Arkham as well, but there was no point since you can't use DT for the second half of the fight, anyways. Also, it'd be useless on Vergil since you will want to use your DT to activate Quicksilver (which does still drain your gauge even if you are using a super character).

I would probably use a super character to clear Bloody Palace mode, though, as I don't have the patience to do that normally.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 18, 2014, 07:21:22 PM
So, as I've been playing more of DMC1, a realization has only just hit me about it: the enemies in this game are fucking weird. Seriously; Plasmas, Shadows, Sin Scissors....who the hell came up with these things? Naturally I love it and it's a big part of this game's appeal. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on May 18, 2014, 08:00:54 PM
Still my favorite cast of enemies ever.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 18, 2014, 11:35:46 PM
Here's something that they definitely need to do if they make another proper DMC game: bring back the elemental weapons, and do Devil Trigger just like how the first game did it. I have a theory that the first game was kind of rushed, since there are only 2 main melee weapons (all of the swords have the exact same move set, hence I only count them collectively as one weapon), a sword of your choosing (mostly Alastor), and the gauntlets (Ifrit). Alastor has lightning and Ifrit has fire. What I love is how when you Devil Trigger in this game, Dante uses the aura of whichever of these weapons he's carrying (you can only DT with Alator and Ifrit in this game, for whatever reason). This also extends to your projectiles, which will be covered in lightning or fire aura depending on what weapon you are currently wielding while in the DT state. And, I love how certain enemies and bosses are more susceptible to certain elements, like for example how Frosts are weak to Ifrit's fire, whereas Marionettes and Fetishes take more damage from Alastor's electricity. Combine this with the fact that DT lasts longer and deals out more damage in this game than in any of the other games, and DMC1 is really the only game in the series to get the DT mechanic right, IMO. I just wish there were more elements/weapons and enemies/susceptibilities to explore this concept with further.

And yes, I know that DMC3 also had elemental weapons, but it did absolutely nothing with the concept, and DT feels disappointingly underpowered in that game (as well as DMC4) IMO.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on May 19, 2014, 01:25:20 AM
Yes, I loved the elemental DTs! I had no clue some enemies had weaknesses to them though. Anyway, I always missed that mechanic.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 22, 2014, 06:39:56 PM
I went through missions 9-11 today. I never realized that the first fight with Griffon is optional, but it's true, it can be completely skipped. That said, I wouldn't feel right doing that, so I completed the fight, anyways, and this was the first significantly challenging thing that I did on Hard mode in this game. On Normal difficulty you could take a few direct hits from him if you were sloppy and just tank them while spamming the grenade gun on him. On this difficulty a few hits from him is all that it takes to kill you, so you really have very little room for error. It took quite a few tries for me until I completely got his pattern down, but once I got it the boss wasn't too bad. My only major gripe is that if you find yourself in the corner of the arena, you'll totally be screwed by the camera which usually lets Griffon get off-screen and unlike normal enemies he can still attack you from off-screen. As for the second fight with Nelo Angelo, though, it wasn't so bad on this difficulty thanks to the use of the Inferno strategy with Ifrit. That attack does massive damage to him AND stuns him up for you to get a nice combo in on him as well. After that just keep your distance and get some light hits on him until you build up your DT gauge again and repeat the process until he's dead. He goes down really fast this way on Normal and Hard difficulty (though I hear that he is much harder on DMD mode).
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 25, 2014, 06:26:21 PM
So, here's the only reason to own DMC3 for the PC: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=825049

I kind of wish that Capcom added that option in for the HD Collection port.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 14, 2014, 12:03:26 AM
This video does a good job of explaining the finer intricacies of DMC3 and 4's gameplay: http://youtu.be/ZPqrXC5hpSQ

I especially love how he compares the Devil Bringer to QTEs, and why the DB is just a much better gameplay mechanic.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 13, 2014, 08:05:20 PM
So, I've been getting back into DMC4, recently. It feels a bit convoluted at times coming off of a game like Bayonetta which has deep combat mechanics but is really simple to play. What I mean is that inputs in DMC are naturally more complex. Still, it's complex in a good way, but it's one of those games that I really have to get used to again.

Meanwhile, I popped DMC3 back in as well, but I only had a short hiatus from this game. I'm about half-way through Heaven or Hell mode as Dante. However, I decided to go back to my Vergil file and continue playing as him. I decided to skip Hard mode and go straight for Very Hard mode since, aside from maxing out his health bar and DT gauge, I've got all of his techniques maxed out. He's actually almost a really overpowered character once you discover that you can map the shoot button to the left trigger since he doesn't have any weapon fun switches to take up that slot. Then you can just hold the trigger and spam summoned swords, which will damage and stun most enemies that even get close to you, and rake you in a ton of stylish points in the process when you combine it with combos. When you use it on bosses in addition to combos, you end up whittling away their health really fast. You should have seen how much damage I could put on Cerberus at once when I did that in combination with jump-canceling with Yamato. Overall, aside from the lack of a double-jump, Vergil is a really fun character to play as.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 21, 2014, 12:53:29 AM
So, I was watching some of TS17's commentary (and the guy knows his shit), and he was saying how DMC4 would have been better if Capcom had just stuck with their vision of a full Nero campaign, having Dante be a playable character that you unlock akin to Vergil in DMC3, and just let people play as him in Nero's stages (which the game basically does, albeit in reverse, so it just feels like padding). Thinking about it, I tend to agree. As fun as Dante's combat is in the game, the enemies feel more like they were designed for Nero (especially the enemies that are harder to stun without grabs). Forcing players to switch between them mid-game is just too jarring since they control so differently.

While I prefer Dante to Nero as a character, I do feel that DMC4 would have been better off if it was focused on Nero the whole way through. Dante would still be fun as an unlockable character, and it would have been nice to have more levels as Nero, and less jarring to switch between them.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on August 21, 2014, 01:21:10 AM
I can kinda agree to that. Especially if Dante still gets his own cutscenes and has a Nero boss fight, something that DMC3 dropped the ball on with Vergil.

Speaking of Vergil, I wouldn't have minded him being playable too, if only as a non-canon bonus character. Same goes for Trish.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on August 21, 2014, 01:53:27 AM
yes, vergil and trish need to be playable again.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 21, 2014, 09:44:04 AM
Quote from: Rynnec on August 21, 2014, 01:21:10 AM
I can kinda agree to that. Especially if Dante still gets his own cutscenes and has a Nero boss fight, something that DMC3 dropped the ball on with Vergil.

Speaking of Vergil, I wouldn't have minded him being playable too, if only as a non-canon bonus character. Same goes for Trish.

If they could expand Trish's move set instead of using her shallow one from DMC2, I'd be all for it. The DMC series could really do with a kick-ass female character.

I'd kill for Vergil to be playable in DMC4; hell, I'd even sink so low as to pay for him as a DLC character, but I suppose that I should be grateful that DMC4, as it is, was one of the last Capcom games to refrain from shady DLC practices, though mostly only because it was still a relatively new concept for console games, at the time.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 18, 2014, 08:47:35 PM
So, we got an announcement for DMC4 Special Edition a while back, which for what it's worth I would probably buy if I had a PS4 and it had enough new content in it (if it had a playable Vergil, it'd be worth buying at full price for that alone), but the announcement also got me disappointed in seeing how Capcom is just content with recycling DMC games at this point, rather than genuinely making a new game in the classic series.

However, the announcement made me want to reflect on the series' roots for some reason, so I went back to DMC1 and have been replaying it a bit at a time over the past few days. In truth, it's a great game that is really different in both intent and gameplay than what the series became after it. The original game was never really about racking up huge combos or being stylish, and people seem to forget that. For one thing, the move-set, while advanced for its time, is very limited and constrained compared to the later games in the series, as well as many other modern action games. However, the design is far more ingenious, with each and every single move and ability having a more significant purpose. Likewise, there aren't that many enemy types or bosses, but the ones that are there are incredibly interesting in design, and aside from the first NG game, they put pretty much any other game to shame with how much more shallow the enemies feel, including later DMC games, and even Bayonetta and NG2, IMO.

That said, while I can understand why many people would say that this was their favorite DMC game and prefer it to any of the sequels, I strongly disagree with the people who claim that the series only went downhill after this. Yes, DMC2 is the most forgettable action game ever to come out of a high-profile franchise, and I'll grant that the focus of DMC3 and 4 is entirely different from the intent of the original game, but that doesn't mean that they are nothing more than glorified combo demos, as some people seem to claim. The enemies aren't quite as interesting or deep as in the first game, and since there are much more moves and abilities, the balance isn't such that every single one of them is particularly useful in certain given situations, but that doesn't mean that the combat is worse for it. Rather, much like the first game it rewards experimentation, and despite not being quite as well-balanced, every attack still builds up your style meter, which in and of itself is a feature that was pretty haphazardly slapped on in the first game, but is done much better in the sequels. Also, it's all the more fun to find maneuvers and strategies that work in the sequels, if only because there are so many more possibilities. The enemies and bosses are also still better than what some DMC1 purists give them credit for, so while not nearly as well-designed on an individual basis, they are still fun to fight and not nearly that shallow.

Additionally, people kind of overrate some aspects of DMC1, namely how you can critical each enemy, which is cool in concept, but rarely worth the trouble considering how the overpowered Grenade Launcher can really trivialize a lot of situations, and in general there are a lot of ways to exploit enemy encounters and not have to utilize the clever strategies that you could choose to use in the game, which somewhat negates from the otherwise brilliant design. Still, the game is definitely one of the top games in the genre that it helped define, and while it would be easy for any bloke of a modern gamer to look back at it and say that it wasn't much due to a cheesy story with bad voice acting and what would initially seem like sub-par mechanics and gameplay to the untrained hands and eyes, a lot of people seem to forget that literally EVERY SINGLE GAME in this genre, whether great or mediocre, took inspiration from the mechanics and design that this game defined. For its time it was revolutionary among action games, and for those who've played more than just a few levels of it, they can appreciate how it still offers a more unique and intuitive design than even most modern action games. Just because it doesn't throw it in your face like current games do doesn't mean that the nuances and flashes of brilliance aren't there.
Title: Playable Vergil In Devil May Cry 4: Special Edition!
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 30, 2014, 05:22:30 PM
http://youtu.be/DSQAHLPAsqk

Skip to the last 10 seconds of that video.

I would seriously buy a PS4 just for that one feature alone. No, I'm not joking.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 30, 2014, 05:30:57 PM
....And then I realize that this news is actually pretty old. Well, it's news to me at least.

I get why some people are pissed off at Capcom rehashing the same games (literally) and milking them out rather than making a new game, but honestly since I've pretty much given up on a new DMC game ever coming out, I'm just super excited at the prospect of Vergil being a playable character in DMC4, since it was super disappointing not to include him after how great he was in DMC3 Special Edition, though that's assuming that they give him much of the same move set that he had in that game.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on December 30, 2014, 07:57:06 PM
and hopefully some new moves.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 30, 2014, 08:49:54 PM
Also, while we're at it, let's give Nero some new weapons. There's no reason why he shouldn't also have alternate Devil Arms and Guns to switch between.

Oh, and make Nero's sections playable with Dante and vice versa, and all lay ale by Vergil, in addition to giving Vergil his own solo campaign. That last one is a tall order, I know, but it doesn't have to be long. A good 2 to 3 hour expansion would suffice.

And one much more minor note, please add some additional background info on Nero into the story. At least flesh him out a little, rather than making him feel like a Dante clone.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on December 30, 2014, 08:57:31 PM
They should let all 3 have access to the others' missions after you beat the game.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 20, 2015, 10:00:34 AM
I'm a few days late, but I just wanted to remind everyone that DMC3's 10th anniversary was a few days ago. After all of this time, there are still few games that can even come close to its level of quality, IMO.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on February 20, 2015, 02:56:42 PM
happy belated birthday, dante's awakening!
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 22, 2015, 04:32:31 PM
So, with DMC4SE coming out in a few months, what changes would you like to see that could potentially make this the best game in the franchise rather than just a very good one? It doesn't have to be stuff that would be likely to happen, but just your ideal dream remake.

For me, some stuff would be:

-Besides Vergil being playable, Dante and Nero are now playable in each others' missions.

-New exclusive areas and boss fights for Dante's missions.

-DMC3 weapons unlockable for Dante.

-Vergil referenced in the story, and some elaboration on Nero's past.

-New alternate weapons for Nero.

-Alternate unlockable costumes for all 3 characters.

-Co-op Bloody Palace mode.

-Complete removal of the Chimera enemies, and the return of some more of the classic DMC enemies.

-All new content in the ending that effectively retcons DMC2 out of the main series's canon.

-Completely replace Nero's Mission 19 with actual original content, or at least remove it entirely.

-Rebalancing to make Nero's Devil Bringer feel less overpowered, but also to make Devil Trigger feel more useful again.

-Make the Sanctus boss fights less shitty.

-Add in boss survival mode.

-Add in an old-school style Yellow Orb mode.

-Make jump-canceling useful again.

-Add in more "distorted" moves for Dante.

....And, that's about all I've got, for now....
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on March 22, 2015, 11:30:45 PM
I'd just want to add on to that:
-Vergil has Air Hike
-Both Nero and Dante permanently get Yamato for New Game + (forget if they did that for Nero in the original)
-All PC features
-Nero gets new combos
-Dante gets pre-Nero fight missions, thus adding some more story content.
-Mode will you can pull through all of Nero, Dante and Vergil's missions in chronological order as any of the 3.
-Unlock Credo and make his flight work like Air raid.
-Unlock Alastor and Sparda.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 22, 2015, 11:50:57 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 22, 2015, 11:30:45 PMVergil has Air Hike

Well, he did sort of have his own spin on a double-jump if you got him to Dark Slayer Lv. 3, in which you could teleport him upward even while in mid-air from another jump, but giving him Air Hike would certainly be a lot simpler and more practical.

Quote-Both Nero and Dante permanently get Yamato for New Game + (forget if they did that for Nero in the original)

They did already keep all of their abilities and upgrades on NG+ in the original, though. That said, Nero could only use the spiritual form of Yamato, and only when he was in DT mode. Meanwhile Dante had access to the physical form of the weapon, but only when using the DS style (which is nothing like Vergil's).

QuoteAll PC features

I'm pretty sure this goes without saying. I mean, surely even Capcom in its current state can't be incompetent enough to forget to include LDK mode, can they....? :whuh:

QuoteMode will you can pull through all of Nero, Dante and Vergil's missions in chronological order as any of the 3.

Nero and Dante's missions already were in chronological order to begin with, though. This does remind me that I want Vergil to get his own missions, though.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 23, 2015, 11:22:23 AM
Legendary Dark Knight mode is included, and you can play the story mode as both Lady and Trish as well! http://www.siliconera.com/2015/03/23/devil-may-cry-4-special-edition-makes-vergil-lady-trish-playable/
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on March 23, 2015, 11:57:09 AM
 :swoon: :swoon: :swoon: :swoon: :swoon: :swoon: :swoon: :swoon: :swoon:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2015, 02:36:54 PM
So, basically they are finishing DMC4 7 years after its original release and making it the best game in the series like it was always supposed to be?

*Sigh*....This remake is literally more appealing to me than any new games coming out on the XBOX ONE or PS4, and I don't even mean that as an insult.

That said, with the release so soon, and no new footage to go on, I can't help but wonder if all of this additional content will really be as substantial as Capcom makes it sound.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2015, 03:16:32 PM
Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition - Announce Trailer: http://youtu.be/FvcXsbX6Dnc

I want this....:drool:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 23, 2015, 03:31:16 PM
the time has come

and so have I...
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2015, 03:34:54 PM
Quote from: Foggle on March 23, 2015, 03:31:16 PMthe time has come

and so have I...

I was going to ask whether the sexual innuendo in that statement/reference was intentional, but knowing you....:lol:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 23, 2015, 03:39:26 PM
The answer is yes. ;)

EDIT: whoops read your post wrong
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2015, 04:09:57 PM
First I whip it [the blu-ray game disc] out [of the case], then I thrust it [into the disc tray], with great force. [Upon fumbling with the disc from too much excitement, I try re-inserting it from] Every angle, [impatiently waiting for when] it penetrates. Until, with great strength, I [forcefully] ram it in [successfully]. And in the end [upon playing this awesome game and sharing my love for it with everyone else], we are all satisfied....
Spoiler
....unless this game is digital download only (which it probably will be), in which case this joke is rendered completely pointless.
[close]
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 23, 2015, 04:12:26 PM
That was the best line in the game. :lol:

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2015, 04:09:57 PM
unless this game is digital download only (which it probably will be)
SPEAK NOT SUCH HERESY
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on March 23, 2015, 04:14:03 PM
Someone on the comments at siliconera made it said like it was download only. That's all I got.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 23, 2015, 04:14:35 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on March 23, 2015, 04:14:03 PM
Someone on the comments at siliconera made it said like it was download only. That's all I got.
NONONONONONONONO
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2015, 04:16:18 PM
DmC: Definitive Edition was released as DDO, and that was Capcom's idea, not Ninja Theory's, so....yeah. :whuh:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 23, 2015, 04:20:13 PM
Nah man, DmC DE is definitely available on disc. I saw it at GameStop the other day and you can buy it on Amazon! http://www.amazon.com/DMC-Devil-May-Cry-Definitive-PlayStation/dp/B00R9NWTQO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427145582&sr=8-1&keywords=DmC
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2015, 04:22:39 PM
Hmmm....I must have read that in some old article then.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on March 23, 2015, 04:23:41 PM
It was just a siliconera comment, not a confirmation. I'll have to do actual research to find out. So off to google..
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 23, 2015, 10:20:29 PM
Hideki Kamiya has commented on a certain aspect of Devil May Cry 4... https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/580083556719804416 :lol:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2015, 10:35:45 PM
Dice....that reminds me, I hope that they've completely removed those awful dice mini-games from SE.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 23, 2015, 10:47:34 PM
I wouldn't mind them keeping the first one, if only for the payoff later on when Dante stops it from happening. :D But that second one has to go...
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2015, 11:07:16 PM
That was the best scene not involving any dialogue in the entire game. :lol:

The devs clearly knew that it was pointless filler, but due to time constraints they had to pad out the game somehow. That scene was like an indirect apology to the fans for having to endure it. :P
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on March 23, 2015, 11:50:55 PM
Why haven't I followed him earlier?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 24, 2015, 03:14:19 PM
http://www.capcom-unity.com/gregaman/blog/2015/03/23/devil-may-cry-4-special-edition-will-include-five-playable-characters-other-features

It is a fucking digital-only release. DmC gets a retail version, but DMC4 does not? We can really see where Capcom's priorities for the series lie now.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on March 24, 2015, 03:21:11 PM
No Wii U release because *shrug*.

Good old Capcom.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 24, 2015, 03:26:31 PM
That makes sense, though; the Wii U's hardware probably can't handle LDK and Turbo Mode. That's why those were exclusive to PC until now.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 24, 2015, 03:32:10 PM
That promo artwork would've made such a bad-ass cover for the game case, too. Also, there are so many conveniences to owning an actual physical copy of the game. WTF, Capcom? :shit:

On another note....I still want that cover art. At least release it as a poster that I can hang in my room, Capcom. Surely you can at least get that much right.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 24, 2015, 03:36:09 PM
I think it is the cover art... in Japan, where it's supposedly getting an exclusive retail release. Same thing happened with the REmake HD port, which was even dumber, because you could only get the PS3 version on a disc, not either current gen version.

I don't want to try my PC's luck with new games at this point if I can help it, so I'd rather get DMC4 on PS4. Maybe if it's confirmed to come with English audio and text I'll import it, I dunno.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on March 24, 2015, 04:17:52 PM
The hype is real. Too bad Capcom is fucking up its western release, because this game is convincing me to get a PS4.

Quote from: Foggle on March 24, 2015, 03:36:09 PM
I don't want to try my PC's luck with new games at this point if I can help it, so I'd rather get DMC4 on PS4. Maybe if it's confirmed to come with English audio and text I'll import it, I dunno.

Same.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 24, 2015, 04:29:10 PM
Apparently the 360/PS3 DMC4 already had English VA and text in the Japanese release, so I see no reason why the PS4 version wouldn't. Also, it's going to be released retail for the equivalent of $50, so importing shouldn't be too horrible!
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on March 24, 2015, 04:30:56 PM
So is the PS4 able to play games from any region?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 24, 2015, 04:31:21 PM
Yep! PS3 is too. :)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 24, 2015, 04:38:13 PM
When I finally get a PS4, I will probably opt to import a retail copy of the game.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on March 24, 2015, 06:24:29 PM
Quote from: Foggle on March 24, 2015, 03:36:09 PM
I think it is the cover art... in Japan, where it's supposedly getting an exclusive retail release. Same thing happened with the REmake HD port, which was even dumber, because you could only get the PS3 version on a disc, not either current gen version.

I don't want to try my PC's luck with new games at this point if I can help it, so I'd rather get DMC4 on PS4. Maybe if it's confirmed to come with English audio and text I'll import it, I dunno.
Don't all languages get DMC in just English? I might have heard wrong, idk. The only game I know was like that was X-Men Arcade. Those voice overs, plus superior features in Japan mode. :worship:

I'm sure trying a modern game on your PC would be like shooting your computer with a gun so go for it.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on April 15, 2015, 04:47:39 PM
I want: http://youtu.be/Ar8lWrY-vsQ :drool:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on April 15, 2015, 05:00:39 PM
Straight to the top of my list. :'( This better sell like hot cakes so we can get a proper 5.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on April 21, 2015, 04:30:17 AM
20 minutes of hype, coming through. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sazH0YIWXmY)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on April 25, 2015, 08:22:32 PM
So, apparently Devil May Cry and Sengoku Basara are getting a crossover....

....As a fucking stage play.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-04-25/sengoku-basara-vs-devil-may-cry-stage-play-announced/.87517

WTF, Capcom?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on April 25, 2015, 08:58:06 PM
While I understand it would be difficult to integrate both of their playstyles into a single game, this would've been a perfect opportunity for an anime crossover.

Why do you do this to me, Capcom? :shit:

On a lighter note, I hope 4SE gets Basara costumes, since Sengoku Basara 4 got DMC costumes.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on April 25, 2015, 09:17:03 PM
It's just such an odd choice for a crossover, to put it mildly. I mean, while both games feature a heavy focus on swordplay, their gameplay styles and general settings couldn't be more unrelated. But, OK, it's not like Capcom hasn't done nonsensical crossovers in the past. Hell, MVC is a really strange crossover idea when you stop to actually think about it, but it at least makes sense that they chose to make it a videogame.

Both Sengoku Basara and DMC are video games, so that'd be the natural first choice, but even an anime would make sense since they've each had anime adaptations. But a stageplay of all things? That'd be like crossing over Sonic and Sparkster as a live-action Hollywood film, or One Piece and Rurouni Kenshin as part of a Taco Bell promotion. It's just....not exactly the first thing that comes to mind.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on April 25, 2015, 09:36:57 PM
Actually, Sengoku Basara does have a few references to DMC. Date Masamune is pretty much samurai Dante, for one thing, Mitsunari has Vergil's fighting style, and given that Oda Nobunaga is more less a literal Devil King, a DMC crossover would kick all kinds of ass. It helps that both franchises are insanely over-the-top.

As for the crossover stageplay; Sengoku Basara has already had several successful stageplays in Japan, so I guess that's why they chose a stageplay.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on April 29, 2015, 04:22:52 AM
Yet another reason why this needs a physical western release. (http://www.siliconera.com/2015/04/28/dante-loves-pizza-devil-may-cry-4-special-edition-limited-edition-comes-pizza-box/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+siliconera%2FMkOc+%28Siliconera%29)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on April 29, 2015, 09:40:54 AM
If I had the money, I would totally import that shit....:drool:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on April 29, 2015, 09:42:26 AM
So only the west is getting screwed? :butbut:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 10, 2015, 01:22:54 PM
Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition - Trish Combat: http://youtu.be/YG4wL85x3v8
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 24, 2015, 04:16:48 PM
I really do eventually need to get a PS4 someday. I really want to play DMC4SE, but that won't happen for a while. I've been hearig that Vergil's combat mechanics are absolutely amazing and add a whole new dynamic to the game.

It's just too bad that Arkham Knight is going to ensure that DMC has absolutely no future beyond this re-release. Not that I blame AK. I blame Capcom for such a poorly timed release and making the idiotic decision to have this only available as a digital download.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on June 24, 2015, 04:20:21 PM
Dammit, I hope by some miracle that this isn't the last time we see Vergil.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on June 24, 2015, 08:59:17 PM
Is this the miracle the series needed?  :sly: http://kotaku.com/warner-bros-says-theyre-suspending-arkham-knight-pc-sal-1713780990 (http://kotaku.com/warner-bros-says-theyre-suspending-arkham-knight-pc-sal-1713780990)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 24, 2015, 09:23:12 PM
Eh, Unfortunately the PC is probably where DMC4's sales would be the weakest since the hack n' slash genre isn't very popular among PC gamers, so AK's delay would only slightly help there, at best. A majority of its sales would be for the console versions.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on June 24, 2015, 09:27:42 PM
The only reason hack 'n slash games aren't popular on PC is because (Metal Gear Rising and original DMC4 aside) the only even remotely notable ones available on the platform are DmC, Ninja Blade, Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z, and an unplayable port of DMC3. Maybe DMC4SE will do well!
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 24, 2015, 09:51:08 PM
I've heard that there are patches/mods that both fix and improve DMC3's PC port, and even a mod that allows on-the-fly style switching just like in the 4th game. That said, I've never played that version, so I can't really make a comparison.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on June 24, 2015, 10:03:10 PM
It's like the original RE4 port. You can "fix" the game, and even add on things that would normally improve it, but it'll never be as good as the console versions.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 25, 2015, 02:26:27 PM
So, DMC4SE was the highest selling game on the PS4 in Japan over the past week: http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2015/06/japanese_sales_charts_the_devil_may_cry_at_these_ps4_numbers

While that's kind of neat, it still doesn't mean much. The PS4 actually hasn't been doing that well this year in Japan, apparently, and as you can see, being number one in terms of sales for that system in just one country for a period of one week only amounts to about 30,000+ copies sold, which of course falls far short of the unrealistically high expectations of Capcom (the same company that expected RE6 to sell 7 million + copies, regardless of quality, or lack thereof).

Seeing as how the XBOX ONE sales will be practically negligible in Japan, and the PC won't really do any better than the PS4 in terms of sales, I wouldn't be surprised if the game overall only manages to push out 50-60,000 copies in total over the next month or so in Japan.

That leaves its performance entirely up to how it does in Western markets, and unlike Japan, Batman is actually a big deal in the West, and even if that didn't do enough damage to DMC4SE'S sales on its own, people skipping this to save time and money for MGSV will be the final nail in the coffin.

Capcom could have released this game in January or February to avoid too much competition, but instead they gave that date up for the re-release of DmC, a game that was only 2 years old and had already underperformed in terms of financial success.

The executives at Capcom are officially the most incompetent businessmen in existence. :srs:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 25, 2015, 09:20:32 PM
So, if you want to buy DMC4SE for the PC with a third of the price knocked off, now's your chance: http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/25/deals-devil-may-cry-4-special-edition-slashed-33-on-release-week/
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on June 25, 2015, 10:08:53 PM
My retail PS4 version is already in the mail. ;)

Also, I think that, while the PS4 definitely has not been a huge success in Japan, a key reason for DMC4SE bombing there is because the Japanese just don't seem to care much for remasters, regardless of their quality. Bloodborne, a PS4 exclusive, did extremely well there, as did the current-gen versions of Yakuza 0 and The Evil Within (despite ports for the more popular PS3 existing). Meanwhile, Final Fantasy Type-0 HD and Yakuza 1 & 2 HD - which you'd think would be surefire sellers - didn't sell as much as many would probably expect.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 25, 2015, 10:59:00 PM
That's probably because everything is so fucking expensive in Japan that they are far more money-conscious than us spoiled, dumb-ass Americans. :lol:

To them, it probably makes no sense to buy a re-release of an older game that they either already bought and played in the past, or that they just had no interest in and obviously still wouldn't care about.

It actually does make a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on June 25, 2015, 11:04:39 PM
Yeah, that does make sense. The costs of both living and consumer goods are much higher in Japan than they are over here, so I can easily see the logic in them not wanting to buy remasters.

Which in turn also means that I can't see the logic in them giving DMC4SE a retail release in Japan (and other parts of Asia) only. :unimpressed:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on June 25, 2015, 11:06:16 PM
Quote from: Foggle on June 25, 2015, 11:04:39 PMWhich in turn also means that I can't see the logic in them giving DMC4SE a retail release in Japan (and other parts of Asia) only. :unimpressed:
It's Capcom of Japan.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 25, 2015, 11:22:21 PM
Seriously, I was genuinely honest about my theory that Capcom is now run by people who actively and purposely want to piss off all fans of their products. They aren't run by either people who love gaming or even people who want to make money. It's literally a few grumpy old ass-holes pulling the strings behind the scenes, who want to add a bit of nuisance and disappointment to the lives of a bunch of gaming fans just for shits and giggles.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 27, 2015, 04:22:23 PM
(http://scyp.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/18271-good-news-everyone-i-was-just-kidding-professor-farnsworth-wallpaper-1280x1280-1-750x410.jpg)

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/devil-may-crys-future-isnt-tied-to-how-well-devil-/1100-6428432/
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on June 27, 2015, 04:59:16 PM
I'm really liking Itsuno.  :) Also, I'd love to see Sparda playable beyond being a Dante reskin in the future.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 30, 2015, 09:58:22 PM
So, apparently Capcom is pretty satisfied with DMC4SE's sales: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/capcom-profit-jumps-100-thanks-in-part-to-devil-ma/1100-6429308/

That, combined with Itsuno's words about how sales didn't matter in the first place leaves me somewhat hopeful for the possibility of a DMC5 announcement. Perhaps they could make another deal with Sony like what they did for SFV, getting them to fund it as a PS4 exclusive title.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 28, 2017, 11:04:59 AM
Take it with a grain of salt: https://wccftech.com/extensive-devil-may-cry-5-leak/amp/

While I'm not completely sold on the rumors, the fact that multiple different sources have come out with very similar information over the past couple of weeks at least makes this worth paying a bit of mind to.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on November 28, 2017, 08:04:49 PM
That sounds too good to be true, but if it is, yooooo. A not opened world, but wider space with environmental interaction. That would be too much of a dream come true moment and would really get me outta my funk and it'll clear any beef I have/had with Capcom if they can actually pull that off.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on November 29, 2017, 01:36:41 AM
Quote from: Mustang on November 28, 2017, 08:04:49 PM
That sounds too good to be true, but if it is, yooooo. A not opened world, but wider space with environmental interaction. That would be too much of a dream come true moment and would really get me outta my funk and it'll clear any beef I have/had with Capcom if they can actually pull that off.
Yep, some of the bigger areas at the start of DMC4 were perfect. I like not fighting demons in broom closets.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on December 07, 2017, 02:36:56 PM
http://www.capcom-unity.com/dubindoh/blog/2017/12/07/devil-may-cry-hd-collection-coming-to-pc-ps4-and-xbox-one-on-march-13-2018

I'm still holding out, but I wanna say this pretty much confirms a DMC5. Whatever, I will buy this HD release mainly because I'm looking to get rid of some of this clutter. All I need now is 3rd Strike and I'd be officially done with the PS3/360.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 07, 2017, 05:13:33 PM
Unless this version somehow has some new features, I have no need to double-dip since my copy for the XBOX360 is still in perfect condition. Still, this is great news for other people who want to get into this series.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on December 08, 2017, 11:41:07 PM
So the rumor stated that DMC5 wouldn't be at PSX because there wasn't enough time for it, right? But they sure had time to show 20 fucking minutes of Detroit: Become Human footage, let a bunch of middle-aged people talk boringly about Dad of War and Horizon for half an hour, and replay the exact same 8 minute trailer of Death Stranding from last night in full. What a fucking shitshow.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on December 09, 2017, 12:56:43 AM
The fact that there are people who legitimately believe that showing a fucking David Cage game and talking about Horizon are more worthwhile than Devil May Cry drives me to murder.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on December 09, 2017, 01:24:55 AM
Quote from: Foggle on December 08, 2017, 11:41:07 PM
So the rumor stated that DMC5 wouldn't be at PSX because there wasn't enough time for it, right?

That's what I thought I read. I also recall that it might be at E3. Yo, I want to say whoever started that rumor has been pretty much right on the money. I don't know if there was anything mentioned about games being showed off at the awards, but of the games I can recall off the top of my head has been shown in some form.

Despite word of mouth about PSX being terrible (I'd only tune in for Capcom Cup anyway), I'm getting a little giddy.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on December 09, 2017, 02:23:59 AM
Quote from: Foggle on December 08, 2017, 11:41:07 PM
So the rumor stated that DMC5 wouldn't be at PSX because there wasn't enough time for it, right? But they sure had time to show 20 fucking minutes of Detroit: Become Human footage, let a bunch of middle-aged people talk boringly about Dad of War and Horizon for half an hour, and replay the exact same 8 minute trailer of Death Stranding from last night in full. What a fucking shitshow.
Foggle...next time walk away. :wth:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on December 09, 2017, 10:29:55 AM
Now, now, Foggle, I'll have you know that David Cage's Walking Simulator 4.0 has a huge fan base behind it, and Dad of War along with Pregnant Norman Reedus: The "Movie" clearly fit in line with the theme of this show.

I mean, it's almost like you were expecting them to show off video games or something....
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on June 10, 2018, 08:11:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMSGj9Y2T9Q

So I'm hype for the game. I'm happy we even got a DMC5, but there's been a lot of complaining about facial features and I'm like really? Are DMC fans really this fickle? First hair (or rather that's what it seemed like it turned into) now faces? I get people want an anime-ish style like DMC3/4, but my goodness can companies take risks anymore? I'm glad we even got a DMC5 because of the backlash from DmC it was a good possibility that we wouldn't get another DMC.

Speaking of which. Nero looks a lot like Dante from DmC. I'm of the impression this has been in the works since DMC4 ended, or since the outsourcing to Ninja Theory, but Capcom didn't have a clear cut direction on where to go with it until now. That's the vibe I'm getting.

Anyone else hype? Impressions?
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 10, 2018, 09:29:37 PM
The complaining is ridiculous, though thankfully not that prevalent as of yet. Resident Evil 7 had a very similar character design overhaul and nobody complained about that. The thing is, it's been ten years since DMC4 and things are a bit different now. Capcom at large has moved away from the more anime-esque designs that were prevalent for their games in the last decade. That doesn't really bother me though since it's easy enough to adjust to once you realize that the actual approach to gameplay remains the same.

Additionally, this trailer was absolutely oozing with classic DMC style from beginning to end. The cheesy one-liners going hand-in-hand with the over-the-top action was in full-force, so unlike DmC it's clearly not making the mistake of taking itself too seriously.

I also just trust in Itsuno's proven ability to craft an excellent action game with an amazing combat system and interesting enemies and bosses. This trailer is the definition of hype for me, and if anything I'm not really expecting anything else from E3 to match the feelings that I got from this reveal. The event could just end here and I'd be satisfied.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: VLordGTZ on June 10, 2018, 10:49:21 PM
DREAMS DO COME TRUE  :swoon:

This is easily one of my most hyped games now!
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 11, 2018, 12:15:20 AM
I was looking all over for this: https://youtu.be/HzbXHZtZFaU

I seriously hope this is the new battle theme for the vocal portions. This song is so damn catchy that I can't get it out if my head.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on June 11, 2018, 12:24:45 AM
I'm not a fan of the colour palette myself, but the tone and gameplay look as stylish and over-the-top as ever so if anything it's the inverse of DmC (good colours and environments, boring tone overall). I really hope we get more gameplay footage in the following days.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 11, 2018, 12:15:20 AM
I was looking all over for this: https://youtu.be/HzbXHZtZFaU

I seriously hope this is the new battle theme for the vocal portions. This song is so damn catchy that I can't get it out if my head.

The style sounds very similar to the vocal songs used in the Pachislot game a couple years ago. That also had incredibly catchy tunes so I'm incredibly happy that that style of music transferred to a mainline game.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: gunswordfist on June 11, 2018, 06:59:42 PM
Quote from: Mustang on June 10, 2018, 08:11:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMSGj9Y2T9Q

So I'm hype for the game. I'm happy we even got a DMC5, but there's been a lot of complaining about facial features and I'm like really? Are DMC fans really this fickle? First hair (or rather that's what it seemed like it turned into) now faces? I get people want an anime-ish style like DMC3/4, but my goodness can companies take risks anymore? I'm glad we even got a DMC5 because of the backlash from DmC it was a good possibility that we wouldn't get another DMC.

Speaking of which. Nero looks a lot like Dante from DmC. I'm of the impression this has been in the works since DMC4 ended, or since the outsourcing to Ninja Theory, but Capcom didn't have a clear cut direction on where to go with it until now. That's the vibe I'm getting.

Anyone else hype? Impressions?
I was thrown off by DmC face Nero and I thought it was just straight up DmC Dante..but with white hair. I didn't know they made Nero look much younger (and Dante much older) until I heard so after I saw the trailer. But it still looks a billion times better than DmC and more importantly, the gameplay looks amazing and that's all that matters! I'm so happy that the best series ever had returned.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on June 12, 2018, 03:38:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=zHuCOqHFwk8

Gameplay footage.

I'm so happy.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on June 23, 2018, 05:44:39 PM
https://www.vg247.com/2018/06/23/devil-may-cry-5-gamescom-2018/

There will be new gameplay footage at Gamescom. I don't know if I want to see it because they may reveal too much (in terms of the story), but after gamescom I'm on media blackout from this, Ghost of Tsushima, Sekiro and Kingdom Hearts 3. Maybe even Dragon Quest 11 and Spiderman.

A lot of the games I've been anticipating over the last 2 years have more or less been disappointments and that's my fault because I feel like I've looked at every leak or footage due to announcements and they killed the hype / my interest. So for at least those games I don't want anymore info.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on August 21, 2018, 05:33:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frB6juW6wa4 (trailer)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmZdyeCRgus (demo)

I was skeptical about the demo because people don't play to my liking, but whatever on that. Seeing it now, Capcom probably could've went full open world. The trailer show so much more of the possibilities than the demo and all I can say is that I miss this. While I'm not trying to shit on the Dark Souls-like games I feel like there have been too many of them and I miss this. This is what I need. I get it, people want a challenge. Me, I just want to feel good playing my games and seeing what Nero could do alone only leave me salivating at the mouth (especially, if Vergil is playable)

Can't wait to see folks like doguri get their hands on this. I can't wait to get my hands on this.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 21, 2018, 07:44:41 PM
My only two gripes are the lack of lighting (which could easily just be my computer screen and not the game) and so far the enemy designs look kind of generic. Granted, these are clearly only base level enemies like the scarecrows from DMC4 which were equally generic, so I have faith that the game will show off some truly inspired designs later on.

Putting that aside, to echo Mustang, I've missed honest to goodness raw hack n' slash gameplay like this, so, so much.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 17, 2018, 01:51:37 PM
Getting a new animated series from the Castlevania producer: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/tv/2018/11/16/18098611/devil-may-cry-animated-series-adi-shankar

I still have yet to see Castlevania on Netflix, so I'm not sure if it's any good, but I at least hope that this is better than the anime that we got from MadHouse a decade ago.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on November 17, 2018, 10:36:07 PM
I haven't watched any of season 2 yet, but from what I saw of Castlevania I thought it was good. A little slow for my taste, but good for sure.

If it's going to Netflix I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 09, 2019, 12:56:29 PM
I've been playing the shit out of DMCV, and I've already blown past the first 7 missions. This is already easily my favorite action game of this console generation. I have sorely missed this more old-school approach to hack n' slash combat. In addition to having an in-depth combat system, the game also has outstanding enemy design, especially when it comes to the bosses. They go beyond just simple gimmicks that are carbon-copied between different enemy sets (looking at you Spider-Man PS4), but are truly nuanced with multiple interesting ways to fight them. Every boss fight I've gone through so far has felt different and memorable.

Nero's new Devil Breakers are among the most inventive and game-changing additions to DMCV that makes what seems like a simple tweek actually make you approach his whole playstyle in a completely different way from DMC4 with his Buster arm. Having them be so fragile and break on you if you are careless with them is also a great way to encourage players to try and experiment with different types and not get too comfortable just using one that they feel comfortable with. Also V is one of the most unique and interesting playable characters that I've ever played as in an action game. His attack style using summons almost exclusively leads to a very high-risk/reward system, and Griffon has so much personality that he has already become one of my favorite secondary characters in the franchise.

All this and I haven't even gotten to Dante yet. I'll say it bluntly: DMCV is the action game that I've been waiting years for. It already puts most other action games from this generation to shame, and I'd much prefer this to be more indicative of the future of the franchise than the new God of War.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 10, 2019, 12:33:11 PM
Hopefully going to start it tonight!
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 10, 2019, 12:49:18 PM
Also, I love how V is basically a perfect homage to DMC1 with him using a tougher enemy type and smaller version of a boss from that game. They even have the same attacks as those enemies. I'm genuinely curious to know the lore behind this version of Griffon and if he's in anyway related to the one from the original DMC.

Also, Balrog for Dante in this game is the best version of his staple gauntlet weapon-set in any DMC game. Having both a classic style and a boxing-style with which he can wield it us fucking genius.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 10, 2019, 04:07:07 PM
So, Missions 11 and 12 may just go down as two of my all-time favorite DMC levels ever. For Misson 11 the level design is very creative with lots of secrets to uncover, and it's topped off with a fucking rad boss fight. Mission 12 is insanely cool in terms of easter eggs, homages, and series lore for long-time fans, it has one of the best story beats of the game so far. It also contains one of the coolest power-ups in a video game ever. They really went all-out on Dante, here. He appropriately feels like the veteran character who's been playing demons for decades, especially compared to V and Nero, which is what it should feel like to play as him.

What a fucking great game for fans who have waited so patiently for over a decade. Thank you, Itsuno.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 10, 2019, 07:21:50 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 10, 2019, 12:49:18 PM
Also, Balrog for Dante in this game is the best version of his staple gauntlet weapon-set in any DMC game. Having both a classic style and a boxing-style with which he can wield it us fucking genius.
Apparently its animations and general moveset are almost exactly the same as God Hand... I don't usually go for the gauntlets in these games but I will have to use them for that alone.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 10, 2019, 08:44:23 PM
Brother, Gauntlets have consistently been the objective most powerful weapons for Dante in literally every DMC game except for 2 (which doesn't have them, and is yet another reason why that game sucks). How you didn't abuse the hell out of attacks like Meteor (DMC1), Rising Dragon (DMC3), and Real Impact (DMC4) genuinely blows my mind. :huh:

For real, though, you should definitely give the gauntlets a try in this game (and in any DMC game that has them, really). They really are super useful and interesting to use. In general, Dante's combat is ultra fun when you mix and match his arsenal of weapons.

Also, I'll warn you now that Kalina Ann is in Mission 11 and is VERY EASY TO MISS. For some reason they don't just give it to you after you beat a boss or clear a mission. You find it in a somewhat hidden area in that mission which again, is full of easy to miss hidden areas. And it's not on display in the room you find it in, either. I just broke some destructible items that happened to be covering it up, then a series of question marks indicated like "? ? ? ?" on my screen, followed by the classic item acquired screen which displayed the weapon. It was awesome in how it was video-game as shit to just find an important weapon simply lying around like that (and I just happened to find it on my first playthrough since I like to explore), but it does seem weird that Lady didn't just give it to Dante again as part of the story; also, what was it even doing in such a random spot in the first place?

Oh, and Cavalier is also a really bad-ass weapon. It's actually kind of nuts how well it fits Dante's combat style given how slow and cumbersome it is compared to his other weapons, but it's absolutely perfect for crowd control or stun-locking bigger enemies. And yes, you even have attacks where he rides it straight into enemies.

::EDIT::

Apparently you do get the Kalina Ann later in the game's story, or rather the Kalina Ann II. The one I found was the original and as I mentioned, is a hidden item. However, having both allows you to freaking dual-wield them. Holy shit I love video games! :joy:
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on March 10, 2019, 11:32:38 PM
Thanks for that, I'll hopefully find it too since I also love exploring levels! :) To be honest, I'm probably gonna go back to the beginning for DMC and play them all again before getting into 5. I played the first 30 minutes or so and was performing horribly. I used to be able to get S+ battle ratings all the time in DMC 3 on Turbo mode, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting into the combat now for some reason. Personally, I blame games like Dark Souls for softening me while having very few new stylish action games to enjoy over the past half-decade. >:(
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Rynnec on March 11, 2019, 01:51:46 AM
Finished the game. Easy GOTY contender and possibly the best DMC game to date! And the final two missions are absolutely INCREDIBLE! Can't wait for Bloody Palace next month. More than that I really need a DLC campaign with Trish, Lady, and come-on-you-know-who-who-else-I'm-talking-about. Lucia too, if only to have every single playable character in the franchise in one game.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 10, 2019, 08:44:23 PM
Brother, Gauntlets have consistently been the objective most powerful weapons for Dante in literally every DMC game except for 2 (which doesn't have them, and is yet another reason why that game sucks). How you didn't abuse the hell out of attacks like Meteor (DMC1), Rising Dragon (DMC3), and Real Impact (DMC4) genuinely blows my mind. :huh:

Gotta say I'm not feeling the gauntlets just yet. I guess the stance switching mechanic is throwing me off a bit, but ignition is satisfying as fuck to reach. The nunchaku, however, I'm really having a blast with. Switching between 3 different modes mid combo is sick as hell and I've already  found some decent combos and combinations with them.


QuoteOh, and Cavalier is also a really bad-ass weapon. It's actually kind of nuts how well it fits Dante's combat style given how slow and cumbersome it is compared to his other weapons, but it's absolutely perfect for crowd control or stun-locking bigger enemies. And yes, you even have attacks where he rides it straight into enemies.

I love how they're basically less cheap versions of the chainsaw weapons from Bayo 2. It's kinda hard to get  the hang of it and adjust to its speed but the payoff is worth it. Still gotta learn how to incorporate it with other weapons though.

Also; the final sword and power up you get for Dante has got to be my favorite in the entire series. I've waited a long time to see that design and mechanic incorporated into a DMC game proper.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 12, 2019, 08:34:29 PM
So, my initial thoughts on DMC5 after beating it....honestly, I'm kind of at a loss for words. I mean, was it a good game? Fuck yeah it was. It was better than good. It had nearly a decade of anticipation going behind it and it still managed to both live up to and in some cases even exceed the hype. That said, there's just so much to this game that it's impossible for me to even begin to judge it's true value after only one playthrough, which is the mark of a truly great game for any genre, but it is especially heartwarming to get that feeling again from a Devil May Cry game.

This is easily Game of the Year for me, and if I'm being honest, it's pretty much Game of the Generation as well. I'm so fucking happy that in this modern age of pretentious Oscar-wannabe pandering cinematic "experiences" that call themselves games, along with another extreme of people who feel that being a Souls-clone for the hardcore elite is what makes a great game (nothing against the Souls franchise itself, though, which has earned it's own prestige), that there can still exist an action game like this. This game feels right out of a nearly forgotten era of action games where games could have a straightforward focus and progress with tight pacing but tons of depth and nuance to elevate it's replay value and keep you coming back for multiple more playthroughs (and you can bet your ass that I've only just started this game after my first run though it).

Spoiler
Also, from a story perspective, while DMC has never been particularly good at story-telling, hardcore fans like myself have come to appreciate it's cobbled together lore and plot elements if only because of how likable it's cast of characters are as well as the overall themes that tie the franchise together. This game was said by Itsuno to be the end of the "Sons of Sparda Saga" starting from DMC1, and it definitely feels like that, while also being a great passing of the torch to Nero, and unlike DMC4, this time it feels like he's earned it. Those last few missions in general had a surprisingly somber tone for a DMC game, and I won't lie in that I did get an emotional response from the final act leading up to that final epic confrontation between Dante and Vergil. It particularly works because of their long history together throughout the games both story and gameplay-wise. Dante and Vergil, in one form or another, have constantly been duking it out for dominance, and yet neither could completely prevail over the other. It's easily the greatest video game rivalry of all time, in my book.
[close]
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on March 16, 2019, 09:20:43 AM
Happy to hear/see the reviews are good for DMC5. I was worried that many people wouldn't care for this style of action in games anymore considering the amount of Souls/Borne people harp on about.

Even though I bought this day 1 I've yet to start it (same will happen for Sekiro as well) due to work and then some friends I grew up with and family are coming into town within the next couple of months to play a lot of 3rd Strike and probably a little bit of Guilty Gear as well.

That being said, I still want to beat Nioh before moving on though (my backlog is brutal. Small but brutal)
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 17, 2019, 12:46:48 PM
Nioh may take quite some time for you to clear based on where you're at right now (or at least from the last time you gave an update on your progress in the game). It's a long as fuck game, and while I love it, I actually felt that there was a decent amount of fat that could have been trimmed to keep it feeling a tad less bloated. Even so, if you skip a lot of the side-quests you could clear the game in roughly 40-hours or less. While there are definitely some side missions that I would recommend, I would also advise skipping a good chunk of them and maybe coming back to them later. Trying to do all of them can make the game drag out way longer than it needs to, and trust me when I say that you aren't missing much if you mainly stick to the main story. I enjoyed the side quests as a diversion, but even I have to admit that it was a mistake trying to do all of them right away since it really started to feel tedious after a while. It's really only worth it for some of the rewards, like getting Guardian Spirits or getting a certain kind of weapon that you want to use a specific ability from.

If you can, I'd recommend playing DMC5 in short bursts if you don't have a lot of time on your hands. The game is old-school in it's design philosophy and mission-based structure, so you can play for as little as half an hour and still make significant progress. That way you can play it along with any other games you are playing, without losing anything from the experience or feeling as though you are progressing through the game at a snail's pace. Keep in mind that even in my limited time to play, I still cleared my first run of the game in one weekend, and I'm already half-way through my second playthrough on Son of Sparda difficulty.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on March 18, 2019, 02:38:42 PM
Outside of the time I was playing Persona 5, I usually handle most non fighting games in short bursts. Problem is sometimes I get too hooked to put down the controller, especially if I have to work the following day which is why I try to wait until the weekend to play games.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 20, 2019, 05:43:25 PM
Goddamn, watching XLHGladiator videos like this one make me painfully aware of how poorly I'm really playing the game compared to it's true potential: https://youtu.be/6SoohlaSSpI
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 23, 2019, 08:34:44 AM
Devil May Cry 5 has already passed 2 million in sales: https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/devil-may-cry-5-hits-big-sales-milestone-in-first-/1100-6465773/

And that's not even including digital sales, which as I see it could easily account for about another few hundred thousand in numbers.

So glad to see this game doing well. By today's standards those numbers may not seem like much, but it's pretty big for what is essentially a niche game.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Mustang on March 23, 2019, 02:45:37 PM
Happy to see that. CapGod status? I want to say yes but I want to say drop the fighting game division and then yes. I don't want Street Fighter, Marvel, or CvS to go away at all, but I feel like the fighting games are holding Capcom back big time.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 09, 2019, 12:00:17 AM
So, this is an interesting video topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1ZSLfvZdzA

I think that there are a few points here that I agree with. For one thing, putting my pre-conceived biases aside and judging them on their own merits, DmC is definitely a more than competent action game than most other Western character action titles. There actually is a fair bit of room for experimentation and some of the design concepts were inspired enough to actually be brought all the way into DMC5 as new staples of the franchise. Likewise, MGRR which released a mere few months apart from DmC got heaped a bunch of praise for it's gameplay by much of the character action fan community that were unhappy with the idea of rebooting a classic series. Though, looking back on it, while still undeniably fun, there is clearly a lot of signs of this being a rushed product with the really abrupt pacing of the last three missions as well as the severe lack of more weapons and nuanced combat mechanics, not to mention how poorly implemented guns and item usage was sloppily pasted into the overall game.

That said, I'm not quite sure that DmC holds up as the more replayable title than Rising. Yes, it is considerably more polished for what it tries to do, but as TGBS points out himself, it is still based heavily on the core combat concepts of DMC3 and 4, so it can't help but pale in comparison to what it's trying to imitate. I get that he is trying to isolate these games into a vacuum for these comparisons to make that point, and in that regard also points out how MGRR got a pass on many of it's set-backs based on how novel much of it was compared to anything else that had come out. That's completely true, and it is heavily flawed in it's design, yet being able to compare games in a genre to what came before and after them is kind of an unavoidable pre-requisite of how we perceive quality. Had I never played other DMC games I may likely find myself also thinking of DmC as the more replayable game. However, I have played every other DMC game so when I play DmC, for as good of a job as Ninja Theory does at making the best combat system that they can by their standards, I have already experienced far higher standards. In this regard, no matter what, DmC's combat, and thus the majority of it's gameplay, will always feel like it comes up short to me. Not unplayable, mind you, as if I were to ever do a replay of the entire franchise, I would have no issues re-visiting this game whatsoever (whereas I certainly couldn't the same for DMC2). In contrast, while a lot of what MGRR does with it's gameplay is novel with the potential to be expanded upon, but still overall shallow nonetheless, the fact still remains that it has yet to really be attempted by other games in the genre. It still feels wholly unique to any other character action games, and gives me a sense of something that I can't find anywhere else but in that game. So while it definitely does have major flaws holding it back from greatness, it is still a game that I can go back to every now and then because it's a game that I need to go back to if I ever want to experience those mechanics. I can certainly go back to DmC without a problem, but I can also experience a far better version of most of what it attempts to do with it's combat in at least three other DMC games.

Still, it's an interesting look back at those two games and their place in their respective franchises.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Foggle on June 09, 2019, 01:42:34 PM
He makes fair points, but much like his Resident Evil 6 and Ratchet & Clank Future videos, I can't help but disagree with him thoroughly. Metal Gear Rising is far from a perfect game, but to me it's incredibly replayable because the gameplay just feels really good and unique to me, not to mention the amazing soundtrack and entertaining story. DmC is definitely better than people say it is, but the gameplay just isn't quite on the same level as MGR IMO, let alone DMC 3-5 or Bayonetta, and the less said about its soundtrack and story the better. I do like the bosses in both games a lot at least, but once again MGR has a pretty sharp edge for me.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 26, 2019, 02:33:16 PM
Devil May Cry 5 has sold nearly 3 million copies to date and will surpass that number soon: https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2019/07/26/capcom-sales-soar-as-devil-may-cry-5-and-resident-evil-2-sell-millions/amp/

This essentially makes it the highest selling DMC game to date, which is VERY good news for the franchise, even if Itsuno isn't all gung-ho on a sequel right away. Granted, by today's standards that still qualifies it only as a niche title (it's nowhere near the 13 million of Monster Hunter World, or other big franchises that sell similar kinds of numbers), but it's a pretty big niche at that, and clearly the game turned a profit for Capcom.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 14, 2019, 04:08:39 PM
So, after giving it a good deal of thought here are my rankings for the series as a whole so far (assume the most up to date special edition for any games which it applies to):

6. Devil May Cry 2
5. DmC: Devil May Cry
4. Devil May Cry 4
3. Devil May Cry
2. Devil May Cry 5
1. Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening

Despite being a huge DMC fan, I'd say that 3 and 5 are the only ones that hold up as genuinely great games despite my bias for the genre. I still like the original and 4, but the former does show it's age in a number of ways that really date it, while the latter forces me to put up with a lot of bull-shit to actually enjoy it. And for what it is, DmC is an alright action game in terms of just mechanics, but while I don't tend to care toi much about bad stories, DmC's is a level of atrocious that makes me not enjoy playing as any of those characters.

As for 3 and 5, it's kind of odd. I actually think that 5 is a better designed game, overall, but 3 is just more satisfying to me. That's not to say that I don't love 5 for what it is, nor that 3 is flawless by any means, but the things that 3 does well gives it a bit of an edge over what 5 does really well, at least for what personally matters to me. For example, I think that 5 (and even 4, for that matter), generally has better enemy design (in terms of AI and patterns) than 3 does, but the shitty enemy types in 3 aren't forced down your throat too much, and it still has plenty of memorable ones. That said, the boss fights in DMC3 absolutely trounce most of the ones from 5, which are kind of a disappointment for a DMC game. I also like the color-palette and aesthetic character and environment designs of 3 much better than 5, and this is perhaps the only DMC game where I actually find the story to be engaging on any level.

Obviously I find a lot to like about both games regardless, but I think at least for now 3 will remain my all time favorite of the series.
Title: Re: Devil May Cry Series
Post by: Dr. Insomniac on October 27, 2019, 12:43:14 AM
Daniel Southworth fuses his franchises together. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDDVwSq6uMg)