Animation Revelation Forum

It's Revelation Time! => Anime => Topic started by: gunswordfist on May 12, 2013, 02:50:05 PM

Title: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on May 12, 2013, 02:50:05 PM
I checked through all the pages and saw that this thread hasn't been made yet.

This is what I wanted to say in it and something I've been meaning to say for years: I hate it when people try to call Western cartoons made by Korean studios anime. Yes, it's as stupid as it sounds. The bigger problem I find with this is no one will label anything Korean animation but if it looks like anime then some will call it anime. So there goes my little rant. :sweat:
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: The Shadow Gentleman on May 12, 2013, 06:25:41 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 12, 2013, 02:50:05 PM
This is what I wanted to say in it and something I've been meaning to say for years: I hate it when people try to call Western cartoons made by Korean studios anime. Yes, it's as stupid as it sounds. The bigger problem I find with this is no one will label anything Korean animation but if it looks like anime then some will call it anime. So there goes my little rant. :sweat:
This actually bothers me too. I never understood why some people can't just except "Made in Japan=Anime".

Anywho:

Quote from: fantastic
Quote from: HURRDURRANIME
"We don't have a choice... We have to use... THAT."
"It's as I feared... It's THAT GUY."
"It can't be helped."
"Wh-what are you doing? Pervert..."
"Ehhhhhhh!?" -camera pans to the sky-
-Shot of a gigantic cloud over a mountain range with the sound of cicadas-
"I'm the Student Council President! I can do anything I want!"
"If you go outside in the rain, you'll catch a cold!" -stand in the rain in anime, almost die of a fever-
-MC bumps into a megane female- "S-sumimasen desuuuuu..." -runs off (kyaa!)-
"I want to protect him/her/it/them!"
"What's wrong?" "Oh, i-it's nothing..." -stomach growls- -nervous laughter-
"Welcome, new Transfer Student! Your seat is next to the window, second from the back row."
-Beach Episode
-Onsen Episode
-Culture Festival Episode
-Drink beverage- "PHHHUAAAAAAH!"
-Put down heavy object- "Nnnshotto..."
-MC eats lunch on the roof
"Why? Why are you so much stronger than me?" "Because I have FRIENDS!"
"I-it's not like I like you or anything... Don't get the wrong idea!"
-Running to school with toast in my mouth HURRRRRR-
-Take bite of food- "OIIIISHIIIIII!!!!!!" -hand on cheek, blush-
"Kono bangumi wa, goran no sponsa teikyou de okurishimasu."
Running in the OP/ED
"I want to live!"
"An ancient evil has awakened..."
Fucking. Anime.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on May 12, 2013, 07:56:14 PM
Quote from: ShadowGentleman on May 12, 2013, 06:25:41 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 12, 2013, 02:50:05 PM
I hate it when people try to call Western cartoons made by Korean studios anime. Yes, it's as stupid as it sounds.
This actually bothers me too. I never understood why some people can't just except "Made in Japan=Anime".

Anywho:

Quote from: fantastic
Quote from: HURRDURRANIME
"We don't have a choice... We have to use... THAT."
"It's as I feared... It's THAT GUY."
"It can't be helped."
"Wh-what are you doing? Pervert..."
"Ehhhhhhh!?" -camera pans to the sky-
-Shot of a gigantic cloud over a mountain range with the sound of cicadas-
"I'm the Student Council President! I can do anything I want!"
"If you go outside in the rain, you'll catch a cold!" -stand in the rain in anime, almost die of a fever-
-MC bumps into a megane female- "S-sumimasen desuuuuu..." -runs off (kyaa!)-
"I want to protect him/her/it/them!"
"What's wrong?" "Oh, i-it's nothing..." -stomach growls- -nervous laughter-
"Welcome, new Transfer Student! Your seat is next to the window, second from the back row."
-Beach Episode
-Onsen Episode
-Culture Festival Episode
-Drink beverage- "PHHHUAAAAAAH!"
-Put down heavy object- "Nnnshotto..."
-MC eats lunch on the roof
"Why? Why are you so much stronger than me?" "Because I have FRIENDS!"
"I-it's not like I like you or anything... Don't get the wrong idea!"
-Running to school with toast in my mouth HURRRRRR-
-Take bite of food- "OIIIISHIIIIII!!!!!!" -hand on cheek, blush-
"Kono bangumi wa, goran no sponsa teikyou de okurishimasu."
Running in the OP/ED
"I want to live!"
"An ancient evil has awakened..."
Fucking. Anime.

:worship:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/124b9a266363b2a84b1b0b5da8d8d60f/tumblr_mmpp74AcGw1r6toezo1_250.gif)
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 12, 2013, 07:58:08 PM
Yeah....damn....I think you just nailed every annoying anime cliche in existence right there (or whoever originally wrote up that post).
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: TheEclecticDude on May 12, 2013, 08:33:26 PM
^Sums it up pretty well

Also, I always get miffed at shows where it has a good idea/premise but then wap about and does nothing interesting with it (Shattered Angels for an example).

Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Rynnec on May 12, 2013, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: TheEclecticDude on May 12, 2013, 08:33:26 PM
^Sums it up pretty well

Also, I always get miffed at shows where it has a good idea/premise but then wap about and does nothing interesting with it (Shattered Angels for an example).

Same applies to Kannazuki no Miko too. A show with yuri and mecha should not be so...average.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: TheEclecticDude on May 12, 2013, 09:03:15 PM
Yeah, have yet to see that show. Doubt I will, given how much I didn't care for Shattered Angels.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Rynnec on May 12, 2013, 09:10:24 PM
The general consensus is that it's better than SA, but that supposedly isn't saying much. Basically, if you didn't care for Kaon and Himiko in SA, you won't care much for KnM either.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on May 12, 2013, 09:21:15 PM
Well...okay, to be fair some anime shows have good onsen, beach, and culture festival episodes. At least Ranma 1/2 and Sgt. Frog did for the former two, and School Rumble did for all three. But in 99% of cases, they are all pretty predictable and annoying to watch, just like how most anime comedies out there are anyway.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: TheEclecticDude on May 12, 2013, 09:22:04 PM
Well to be fair, Kaon and Himiko were the closest to being interesting characters, but they felt underdeveloped.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Peanutbutter on May 12, 2013, 09:48:55 PM
That cliche dialogue list is missing something crucial. A line of exposition about how someone's attack works, which happens regardless if it uses some form of magical energy or if someone does gymnastics. If we've already been given an explanation about how a particular anime universe's energy works, and if we can clearly see what someone is using that energy for; then please don't disrupt the action by telling us about. Every. Single. Time.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 12, 2013, 09:55:05 PM
That's actually not solely an anime/manga cliche, though. The whole idea of announcing attack names and explaining technique and such can also be seen in certain Japanese films as well as in some of the more over-the-top Chinenes and Korean martial arts films. Actually, Chinese marital arts films may have been what inspired that trend in regard to describing techniques. A Chinese comedy that I have watched called The God of Cookery even parodies that cliche, and that movie is over 15 years old.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Nel_Annette on May 12, 2013, 10:31:48 PM
I get that those explanations were always for the audience's sake, but in-universe, that never made sense beyond bragging. Your enemy doesn't know how your attack works? Fantastic! Use that confusion to tear their ass apart!

Of course, now that I've countered your attack, allow me to explain the weaknesses in your attack and how I was able to counter it!  :light:
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Insomniac on May 12, 2013, 11:11:22 PM
The obsession with purity.

(http://flawfinder.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screen-shot-2013-05-12-at-8-06-07-am.png)
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on May 12, 2013, 11:27:53 PM
 :D@ Running in the OP/ED. That's dead on.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: TheEclecticDude on May 13, 2013, 12:03:52 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 12, 2013, 11:27:53 PM
:D@ Running in the OP/ED. That's dead on.

That happens so often that I am not really bothered by it.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: The Shadow Gentleman on May 13, 2013, 07:32:05 AM
Quote from: TheEclecticDude on May 13, 2013, 12:03:52 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 12, 2013, 11:27:53 PM
:D@ Running in the OP/ED. That's dead on.

That happens so often that I am not really bothered by it.
Now that you mention it... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibPCLMH1NM4)
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on May 13, 2013, 07:35:19 AM
Quote from: TheEclecticDude on May 13, 2013, 12:03:52 AM
Quote from: gunswordfist on May 12, 2013, 11:27:53 PM
:D@ Running in the OP/ED. That's dead on.

That happens so often that I am not really bothered by it.
I'm not bothered in the slightest. It's just that I was laughing at how I didn't notice something so common until he pointed it out with that quote.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Foggle on May 13, 2013, 11:10:43 AM
Quote from: Cartoon X on May 12, 2013, 09:21:15 PM
Well...okay, to be fair some anime shows have good onsen, beach, and culture festival episodes. At least Ranma 1/2 and Sgt. Frog did for the former two, and School Rumble did for all three. But in 99% of cases, they are all pretty predictable and annoying to watch, just like how most anime comedies out there are anyway.
Excel Saga manga has the best onsen chapter(s) ever.

Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on May 12, 2013, 11:11:22 PM
The obsession with purity.

http://flawfinder.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screen-shot-2013-05-12-at-8-06-07-am.png
Dat quality... :immad:
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on May 13, 2013, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: Nel_Annette on May 12, 2013, 10:31:48 PM
I get that those explanations were always for the audience's sake, but in-universe, that never made sense beyond bragging. Your enemy doesn't know how your attack works? Fantastic! Use that confusion to tear their ass apart!

Of course, now that I've countered your attack, allow me to explain the weaknesses in your attack and how I was able to counter it!
  :light:
Which ALWAYS happens.

I always liked how in some anime like YYH how it would usually get explained after the enemy was dying, defeated, or already dead instead of "oh so that's how you did it, well it won't work again!" which is really irritating.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on May 13, 2013, 02:14:05 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 13, 2013, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: Nel_Annette on May 12, 2013, 10:31:48 PM
I get that those explanations were always for the audience's sake, but in-universe, that never made sense beyond bragging. Your enemy doesn't know how your attack works? Fantastic! Use that confusion to tear their ass apart!

Of course, now that I've countered your attack, allow me to explain the weaknesses in your attack and how I was able to counter it!
  :light:
Which ALWAYS happens.

I always liked how in some anime like YYH how it would usually get explained after the enemy was dying, defeated, or already dead instead of "oh so that's how you did it, well it won't work again!" which is really irritating.
Oh yeah like when Hiei defeated the beast guy or any of Kurama's cruel kills.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on May 13, 2013, 04:26:42 PM
Quote from: Foggle on May 13, 2013, 11:10:43 AM
Excel Saga manga has the best onsen chapter(s) ever.

Well, of course. Excel Saga has the best everything ever. ;)

(well, maybe not in sheer insanity and randomness. Nothing tops ol' Bobobo when it comes to those...)

You know what I hate in anime fights? When almost 70% of the time most of it is just freaking talking or commentary by useless bystanders. Dragonball Z was especially bad at this, and honestly, almost every long-running fighting-based title is too. When I'm watching an action-oriented anime, I want to watch a fight, not people talking about fighting or about a fight...

I also hate pans and zooms. Every anime title does this in some capacity, but of course long-running titles have this in spades and while I like more of those kinds of shows then most people here, I consider pans and zooms just really lazy ways to indicate motion without actually animating anything. Sometimes, when it is used effectively enough like in Ranma 1/2 or the original Dragonball anime I can overlook them, but when it is overused like in Naruto or InuYasha I get extremely irritated and pissed off.

I hate the "but you just said..." and "but you are yourself doing..." kind of jokes, because they just are never funny. In fact, the overreaction in most cases when the line is said kills any humor that could be found in the notion by being super annoying. I know the Japanese style of humor is based on the concept of contradictions or whatever, but that shit is just so overused it becomes tremendously grating on the ears. Typical anime overreactions annoy me too in the same regard.

I hate jokes centered around big breasts or short skirts or anything along the like. The kind of shit that happens in a Bleach "comedy" scene centering around Rangiku, or your run-of-the-mill fanservice/harem show. Fanservice itself annoys me because it's a lazy excuse to not produce a better plot or character by instead devoting time pandering to the lowest common denominator. Of all the tropes that I hate in anime, this one is easily the one I hate the most.

Huh. I guess I hate a lot of things that happen in anime shows. Ironic considering 8/10ths of my top ten favorite shows are anime.  :P :D

Edit: Oh, I totally forgot about Tsunderes. Fuck Tsunderes. They suck.

(At least the general depictions of them do. Characters like Akane and Eri work because in Akane's case Ranma actually does something rude or inconsiderate to her first before she sends him flying, and the one of the main sources of jokes in the series is that Akane and Ranma both clearly like each other mutually, but they are too shy and proud to admit it outright and continue to do what they always do because habit is easier to them than admitting their feelings for each other, and Eri is....uh...well Eri is actually a more complex character in general and does actually try to get closer to Harima as the series progresses but is impeded by Harima's obliviousness and various misunderstandings about her feelings for him, which irritates her and causes her tsundere-esque behavior around him.)

Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Rynnec on May 13, 2013, 05:02:15 PM
QuoteOh, I totally forgot about Tsunderes. Fuck Tsunderes. They suck

Shana clones especially.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on May 13, 2013, 05:08:25 PM
I'm honestly not sure what a Shana clone is because I've never watched Shakugan no Shana and likely never will, but I probably do hate that type of tsundere too.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Insomniac on May 13, 2013, 05:09:14 PM
Quote from: Cartoon X on May 13, 2013, 05:08:25 PM
I'm honestly not sure what a Shana clone is because I've never watched Shakugan no Shana and likely never will, but I probably do hate that type of tsundere too.
Louise from Zero no Tsukaima.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on May 13, 2013, 05:11:45 PM
Is that The Familiar of Zero? I remember watching that show a couple years ago and hating all it's characters, so yeah, if so I guess I do hate Shana clones.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 13, 2013, 05:41:49 PM
I actually don't mind the side-commentary in anime fights. To me its a much more reasonable alternative to having the actual characters fighting explaining their attacks and strategy, which as Nel pointed out makes no sense at all since its giving their opponent the perfect means to counter them. I tend to sort of look as the side-commentary as a fighting anime's version of sports commentating, basically calling a match and explaining the strategy for general audiences so that you see that there is an elements of wits to the battle and so that the action doesn't just come off as mindless and thoughtless.

One thing I hate seeing in many shonen battle fights that never seems to bother anybody else is when the characters just pull new attacks out of their ass. I mean, yes, its implied that they knew that attack for a while and presumably saved it for a time when they needed it, but to the viewer its obvious that the mangaka or writers for the anime just lazily threw in a random new attack that was perfect for helping them win a certain fight or getting them out of a certain situation without having to carefully have them strategically use the powers you as the viewer already know that they have. Or, at least in some cases, better writing will have it hinted that certain characters have certain abilities that they can utilize. But more often than not I find that many mangaka seem to follow what I like to call the Deus Ex Machina attack trend, in which they just have their characters train off-screen and have some attack that powers them up for a limited amount of time or something to help them save the day with relative ease. Naruto is a big offender of this, IMO, as you constantly have new (and oddly very specific) Jutsus being thrown at you out the wazoo, and other shonen manga like Beelzebub and such use cheap tactics like this as well.

That's another thing that I like about Togashi's manga. With both YYH and HXH, usually he establishes what powers and abilities a character has, and hints and potential uses for them, and then most of the time he cleverly has them use what they already know, and what you as the viewer already know that they can do, in very creative and tactical ways to overcome tough situations, which makes the strategies feel more interesting and the resolution of battles feel more rewarding.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on May 13, 2013, 05:55:02 PM
Eh, side commentary makes more sense and is better than in-battle talking for sure, but when it goes on too long I get annoyed.

I agree with you about random new attacks in powerup-type fighting anime. Bleach is worse at that kind of shit than Naruto because Kubo creates random and nonsensical powerups for his characters just so they can win fights and contradicts his own statements of their capabilities with ass-pulling crap as well. And, to be honest, I never did like the way Gear 2 and a couple of the Strawhat Crew's techniques were introduced in One Piece in the Enies Lobby arc. Sanji's fire-kick thing is still something I don't get how he was able to perfect before the arc. At least Gear 2 and Gear 3 were sort of explained. But, honestly, I don't really read the more generic titles like Beezlebub so I don't get all that annoyed by this trope too often. Most of the time in stuff I've read like Dragonball, Yu Yu Hakusho, and Toriko the powerups came off pretty believably even if sometimes like the Spirit Bomb or the Darkness Flame they seemingly came out of nowhere, although they are explained later.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 13, 2013, 06:02:39 PM
The Spirit Bomb was hinted at after Goku finished his training with King Kai, in which they clearly acknowledged the technique. Also, the ability itself had its limitation of a significant charge-up time, so I didn't mind it as all as it was hardly an immediate Deus Ex Machina attack, and took both strategy and a lot of luck to pull off on Vegeta, so I really had no problems with that attack.

Dragon of the Darkness Flame did basically come out of nowhere, but it was one of the few times that Togashi ever did anything like that. Its also a cool attack that was used in interesting ways in later fights, so I can forgive Togashi for doing that. Hunter X Hunter has a case of having Togashi pull new attacks out of his ass, but to be fair that was mostly only in the Chimera Ant arc toward the climax, and even then if you really think about it, most of those characters who had those random new attacks ended up losing their respective battles in one way or another, anyways. The one thing I can't forgive, though, is that complete Deus Ex Machina power-up that Togashi gave to Gon. That was just flat-out bad writing (as was Alluka's ability to totally undo the negative effects of that power-up in the Election arc).
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on May 13, 2013, 06:10:13 PM
Oh, I wasn't ever annoyed with the Spirit Bomb or Darkness Flame ever, I was just saying I felt they came out of nowhere. Ultimately I liked them because, like you said, the Spirit Bomb is a last resort gamble that requires lots of time and energy to perform and isn't a deux-ex, while the Darkness Flame had some consequences for Hiei and led to a huge moment of awesome in his fight with Bui.

But yeah, Gon's transformation and Alluka's power. That shit was terrible. Gon beat Neferpitou with some dumbass powerup he can't ever do again and got off completely scott-free for it in the end. It's a good thing that fight didn't drag, at least.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Rynnec on May 19, 2013, 02:57:25 PM
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2013-05-19/blazblue-alter-memory-anime-story-cast-staff-revealed (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2013-05-19/blazblue-alter-memory-anime-story-cast-staff-revealed)

QuoteThe games' Toshimichi Mori is supervising the project, and Hideki Tachibana (Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kira) is directing the anime at teamKG and Hoods Entertainment. Seiji Mizushima (Fullmetal Alchemist, Mobile Suit Gundam 00) is collaborating on the direction. Deko Akao (Arakawa Under the Bridge, Mysterious Girlfriend X) is overseeing the series scripts being co-written by Tatsuya Takahashi (The IDOLM@STER, Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~). Tomoyuki Shitaya (Bakuman., Hatsukoi Limited, /b]Kiss?sis[/b]) is serving as both character designer and chief animation director.

QuoteHoods Entertainment

QuoteAnime with which this company was involved:

Aki Sora
Mysterious Girlfriend X
Qwaser of Stigmata

   :srs:
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 28, 2013, 10:38:24 PM
Y Ruler of Time did this video (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/ir/yrt/readright/39377-read-right-to-left-5-terrible-evil-plans-in-manga) on the top 5 dumbest evil plans by manga villains. I've read 4 out of 5 of those series, myself, and I agree with each of those choices. I ESPECIALLY agree with number 3, mostly because I hate that series with a passion. You guys should check it out. Its totally worth a watch.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on May 29, 2013, 09:42:18 PM
A fun video. I've only read two of those series, but I certainly do agree with #1 and #4, and why the rest are stupid make sense to me too.

However, I was quite surprised neither Aizen nor Ginjo were on this list. They are easily the most inane and poorly written villains ever created, with plans that make no godamn sense at all, and their actual motivations change so frequently they never had a solidly written plan to begin with. It's telling that Aizen only became a villain because Kubo felt that he shouldn't have died, and I suspect Ginjo was only mad into a villain because he realized Tsukishima was stupid and incredibly lame to be an enemy for Ichigo to fight. Of course, making Ginjo a villain and the rationale for his motivations in being one make absolutely no godamn sense and it doesn't help that the character is basically Aizen 2.0 but less hyped up. Aizen was equally as bad though, if not more so, because his motivations for doing what he did kept fucking changing and honestly I have no clue what he wanted to do ultimately because he kept dicking around doing pointless and ultimately useless things that served no purpose but to show how "evil" he was. They are easily two of the worst villains ever created, and are likely soon to be joined by whatshisname from the current arc who is equally asinine.  I don't read Bleach anymore, though, because it's not even fun to make fun of anymore and is just plain unbearable to go through, so I'll probably not know just how bad the new villain will get, unless my curiosity gets the better of me.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: The Shadow Gentleman on June 19, 2013, 05:00:28 PM
Spiritual successor to my last post.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/16453b790f4231f4b712c1e92814559d/tumblr_monhljAUNT1rlwz4co1_500.png)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/7a40609d4f77dcdfa42af33ccf0b6b53/tumblr_monhljAUNT1rlwz4co2_500.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/2fdc485a7d8109c73d3d9b2a1566bd9b/tumblr_monhljAUNT1rlwz4co3_500.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/3e34e2f84308b96d4732e6f794339c33/tumblr_monhljAUNT1rlwz4co4_1280.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/1c1eea269efa6d4c020194da5c750651/tumblr_monhljAUNT1rlwz4co5_1280.png)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/7735efc7d2c5cbb3b3ce741a09d34e21/tumblr_monhljAUNT1rlwz4co6_1280.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/cf3c19cfe092f2c2051627474764e1fc/tumblr_monhljAUNT1rlwz4co7_1280.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/88e26c4e0314a7dadddb8f6f0b02f9e3/tumblr_monhljAUNT1rlwz4co8_1280.png)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/54bdbd8533d22b129ad1a96fe7e3b3b8/tumblr_monhljAUNT1rlwz4co9_1280.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/152717da713a0631bada99c12621b7ad/tumblr_monhljAUNT1rlwz4co10_1280.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/7c742e7f22a64b9428235fa75316160b/tumblr_monhq2mbEe1rlwz4co1_500.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/1631d39bfc6dd3040c274f48c576b2a9/tumblr_monhq2mbEe1rlwz4co2_500.png)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/b7720afe3d9632dabaeaff26d5804d07/tumblr_monhq2mbEe1rlwz4co3_500.png)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/dae527f90996ca6158fb7e6b421a7e8e/tumblr_monhq2mbEe1rlwz4co4_500.png)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/416cd3b44e59237ccaf8490529a4fa70/tumblr_monhq2mbEe1rlwz4co5_500.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/d30941f117f283b4534595a68770a635/tumblr_monhq2mbEe1rlwz4co6_500.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/33826d387806ba8aeb9cb3cc6b2b8401/tumblr_monhq2mbEe1rlwz4co7_500.png)
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on June 19, 2013, 06:06:58 PM
Wow. Nice to have everything I tend to hate about the typical kids anime characters all in one post. Whoever made that did some good work!

Although technically InuYasha is really around 100 or so years old (not including the amount of time he was pinned to the tree), and is just biologically looks 15 because demons age slower than humans. Nitpick.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Daxdiv on June 19, 2013, 07:56:42 PM
I love how Crona is labeled as Crona.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Rosalinas Spare Wand on June 19, 2013, 10:12:20 PM
Tumblr dudes need to learn how to get to the point and not make some big ass collage of shit I don't care to look at.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Insomniac on June 19, 2013, 10:17:01 PM
Quote from: Rosalinas Spare Wand on June 19, 2013, 10:12:20 PM
Tumblr dudes need to learn how to get to the point and not make some big ass collage of shit I don't care to look at.
Well, you're going to hate being a teacher.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on June 20, 2013, 05:16:34 PM
That reminds me, when it comes to anime, the thing that bothers me more than anything else is when people think that anime studios are try to make Japanese characters look like white people. Yeah, because white people have naturally purple hair and big round eyes :unimpressed: I can see you making that mistake if you are 8 years old. Also, some dumb fuck on some site, I think tv.com, said that anime characters look white because Japanese people want to be white :wth: And of course this brain dead guy said something like "No offense but.."
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Foggle on June 20, 2013, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 20, 2013, 05:16:34 PM
Also, some dumb fuck on some site, I think tv.com, said that anime characters look white because Japanese people want to be white :wth:
OH GOD, I remember that.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on June 20, 2013, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: Foggle on June 20, 2013, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on June 20, 2013, 05:16:34 PM
Also, some dumb fuck on some site, I think tv.com, said that anime characters look white because Japanese people want to be white :wth:
OH GOD, I remember that.
Then I'm glad I left tv.com.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Daxdiv on June 20, 2013, 09:03:33 PM
I remember hearing one time that in Japan the idea of Japanese beauty for women is at least being a raven-haired and having skin as pure white as snow. I have no idea where I heard that.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Angus on September 12, 2013, 04:02:52 PM
Stuff that bothers me in anime:

MC doesn't develop.
Excessive fanservice. No point in wanting to see someone naked when they're already naked in the opening.
Smart characters that are just too smart for anyone to care about.
Harem attraction for super weak reasons. (oh, you gave me an umbrella to use one day; I'm gonna live with you now.)
Eyebrows drawn on top of light hair.
Action scenes that are full of panning still shots.
When the show is a carbon-copy of the manga.  If I wanted that, I'd read the manga.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Angus on September 12, 2013, 04:22:21 PM
I do like those shows that make fun of the anime stereotypes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFY7xXOixjY
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Angus on September 12, 2013, 04:59:33 PM
Funny thing is I actually know that "I don't even know what this is" cutesie animal now. And it did have one moment of brilliance in the series.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on September 12, 2013, 10:28:27 PM
*starts handing out umbrellas*

During the last few days, I have actually been thinking about how Batman TBATB is the only series that I find panning still shots to be acceptable. Well that and Megas XLR.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on April 22, 2015, 03:19:52 PM
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/04/22/ghost-in-the-shell-live-action-film-to-begin-shooting-in-early-2016/ (http://www.siliconera.com/2015/04/22/ghost-in-the-shell-live-action-film-to-begin-shooting-in-early-2016/)
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on May 04, 2015, 04:11:45 PM
Should I make a Thing That Bother You About Anime thread or just an Animation thread? What I want to say is just for anime but killing two birds with one stone wouldn't be bad either. This site needs some threads about love and less on how everything and their grandma is an abomination.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on May 04, 2015, 06:52:42 PM
Are you saying you want to make a Things That You Love About Anime and/or a Things That You Love About Animation thread? The way you've worded your post is a bit unclear. I would be all for making those, though.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on May 04, 2015, 07:31:11 PM
Whoops, I meant to say Things That Don't Bother You About Anime/Animation and not a duplicate thread. I should not type while using multiple other tabs at the same time anymore. :sweat: I'm just wondering which one would be better.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on May 26, 2015, 03:37:01 AM
http://media.goboiano.com/news/2915-evangelion-creator-predicts-anime-will-die-in-next-5-to-20-years (http://media.goboiano.com/news/2915-evangelion-creator-predicts-anime-will-die-in-next-5-to-20-years)
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 26, 2015, 09:31:38 AM
Well, I know next to nothing about the business of producing anime, so I'll just take Anno's word for it.

Granted that, I don't suspect that it will die out as an art-form completely. I just wouldn't be surprised to see a huge scale back on the amount of anime being produced per year, which honestly may not be such a terrible thing since at least 90% of what comes out each season is uninspired crap, anyways.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on May 26, 2015, 10:58:21 AM
I don't know what the climate is like in Japan, but the industry everywhere else has shrunk immensely from its high point well over a decade ago. It mostly came from catering to a small audience of otaku over a general audience in Japan that lead to everyone else getting less options everywhere else.

But it's not like anime will just end. It's far too much of a staple in Japan for that to happen.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Foggle on May 26, 2015, 12:16:14 PM
Anno's been hanging out with Miyazaki again, eh? :lol:

Anime isn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on May 26, 2015, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: Foggle on May 26, 2015, 12:16:14 PM
Anno's been hanging out with Miyazaki again, eh? :lol:

Anime isn't going anywhere.
Pretty much how I feel. .3.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on November 20, 2015, 12:37:31 AM
"Those all suck, would rather watch cowboy bebop in subbed"

Welcome to the internet.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on November 20, 2015, 10:10:32 PM
...Context?
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on November 20, 2015, 10:19:35 PM
Someone was saying that only Dragonball has a good dub and that Cowboy Bebop, among other anime, has terrible dubs.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on November 20, 2015, 10:31:08 PM
OG Dragon Ball or DBZ? Because I don't see how the latter has a better dub than Bebop... :whuh:
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on November 20, 2015, 10:42:14 PM
The former, I assume, because he put now Z after it.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on November 20, 2015, 11:17:28 PM
Well, I can at least agree that the original has a pretty good dub. Though, it's hardly perfect itself, so I don't see why one'd be so harsh on dubs for other series in comparison.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 21, 2015, 12:22:18 AM
Dragon Ball Z's English dubs (all of them) are pretty awful, including FUNimation's dub. Even Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat have openly admitted this before. Dragon Ball (Z) Kai's English dub is excellent, and completely makes up for the crappy dubs of the past. Unfortunately, Kai isn't exactly an ideal director's cut of the original show like it should have been, but the dub is easily the best way to watch it for me.

The original Dragon Ball's FUNimation dub, much like YYH, sounds a tad dated with some of the less talented VAs and the voices of the minor characters, but it's still a pretty solid dub if you can look past some of the cringe-worthy bits of English voice-acting and dialogue that crop up from time to time.

Cowboy Bebop has an excellent dub. I honestly can't fathom how anyone who's not a flat-out weeaboo would say otherwise.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Avaitor on November 21, 2015, 01:57:44 PM
I can think of one person who dislikes both dubs. :thinkin:
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 21, 2015, 09:11:10 PM
I can't stand it when people make generalizations about stuff. Like, people who say that they stopped liking YYH after the tournament arc started and all tournament arcs are just boring, mindless fighting. It doesn't seem to matter that actually viewing the arc shows that there is more plot to it than expected, and the fights themselves are anything but mindless.

Another example is assuming that One Piece is only appealing to little kids because its a shonen and has a more cartoony art-style. In reality the art-style is intentionally wacky because Oda wanted to take full advantage of the comic book medium and not be constrained by any hard rules on how his world or characters had to look. The style actually works really well, and in no way does it diminish the quality of the story or characters. I find it especially hypocritical to criticize One Piece so much but then praise shows like TTGL or Kill La Kill, personally, which are just as out there, if not more so.

A third example is people assuming that Digimon as a franchise is only made to sell toys, and people only like animated series out of nostalgia. I've already explained in detail how Digimon Adventure and Tamers are great, well-intentioned shows that are perfect for kids and still entertaining for adults who appreciate some of their more mature subtext. In that way, it does on a drama level what Animaniacs does on a comedy level. The most recent movie also proves how genuinely great Digimon can be when there's effort behind it. Mamoru Hosoda and Chiaki J. Konaka got their start in the medium of animation with this franchise. It's not much different from how some of Miyazaki's earliest work was with the Lupin III franchise.

"That's so old and dated," annoys me as well. There are many people who will refuse to read anything by Osamu Tezuka or before the 90's in general because they believe that something older is inferior and less relevant by today. This line of thinking is especially stupid because inevitably everything will become old after time, including stuff that you like right now. It doesn't mean that truly great works won't still hold up for future generations.

And as an extension of that, it really frustrates me how close-minded some anime fans are when it comes to remakes. A lot of people will tell you that Hunter X Hunter 2011 is better than 1999 because its newer. I enjoy the 2011 series, but on a level of being a good adaptation, 1999 is far superior for what it does cover. People will just resonate more with what's more popular, though. The same thing happened with FMA after Brotherhood came out. A ton of people claimed to love the first anime, but many of those same people suddenly hated it once everyone was raving about the new one because it was closer to the manga. This is part of the reason why the prospect of a Trigun remake rubs me the wrong way. It would be neat to see an adaptation that's faithful to the manga, but the anime that we have is still great, and I don't want to see a bunch of idiots trashing it as soon as a modern anime comes out.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on November 21, 2015, 10:58:25 PM
I don't care what those losers think, I want my Trigun remake.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: The Shadow Gentleman on November 22, 2015, 12:40:48 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 21, 2015, 10:58:25 PM
I don't care what those losers think, I want my Trigun remake.
+1
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on November 22, 2015, 04:52:51 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 21, 2015, 09:11:10 PM
I can't stand it when people make generalizations about stuff. Like, people who say that they stopped liking YYH after the tournament arc started and all tournament arcs are just boring, mindless fighting. It doesn't seem to matter that actually viewing the arc shows that there is more plot to it than expected, and the fights themselves are anything but mindless.

Another example is assuming that One Piece is only appealing to little kids because its a shonen and has a more cartoony art-style. In reality the art-style is intentionally wacky because Oda wanted to take full advantage of the comic book medium and not be constrained by any hard rules on how his world or characters had to look. The style actually works really well, and in no way does it diminish the quality of the story or characters. I find it especially hypocritical to criticize One Piece so much but then praise shows like TTGL or Kill La Kill, personally, which are just as out there, if not more so.

A third example is people assuming that Digimon as a franchise is only made to sell toys, and people only like animated series out of nostalgia. I've already explained in detail how Digimon Adventure and Tamers are great, well-intentioned shows that are perfect for kids and still entertaining for adults who appreciate some of their more mature subtext. In that way, it does on a drama level what Animaniacs does on a comedy level. The most recent movie also proves how genuinely great Digimon can be when there's effort behind it. Mamoru Hosoda and Chiaki J. Konaka got their start in the medium of animation with this franchise. It's not much different from how some of Miyazaki's earliest work was with the Lupin III franchise.

"That's so old and dated," annoys me as well. There are many people who will refuse to read anything by Osamu Tezuka or before the 90's in general because they believe that something older is inferior and less relevant by today. This line of thinking is especially stupid because inevitably everything will become old after time, including stuff that you like right now. It doesn't mean that truly great works won't still hold up for future generations.

And as an extension of that, it really frustrates me how close-minded some anime fans are when it comes to remakes. A lot of people will tell you that Hunter X Hunter 2011 is better than 1999 because its newer. I enjoy the 2011 series, but on a level of being a good adaptation, 1999 is far superior for what it does cover. People will just resonate more with what's more popular, though. The same thing happened with FMA after Brotherhood came out. A ton of people claimed to love the first anime, but many of those same people suddenly hated it once everyone was raving about the new one because it was closer to the manga. This is part of the reason why the prospect of a Trigun remake rubs me the wrong way. It would be neat to see an adaptation that's faithful to the manga, but the anime that we have is still great, and I don't want to see a bunch of idiots trashing it as soon as a modern anime comes out.

I agree with all of those statements 100%. People dismissing a series because the artwork looks too "cartoony" or "old" in particular annoys me. I love the WMR guys, but it really annoyed recently when RolloT refused to read the Saint Seiya Jump Back because the art style looked too old, and basically didn't read Cross Game at all for the same reason and thus unable to provide any actual critical thoughts or discussion on the series (leaving Nik to just rant for 30 minutes about why he hates Adachi's tropes...easily one of the most unbalanced and least insightful reviews they've done, imo).

Quote from: The Shadow Gentleman on November 22, 2015, 12:40:48 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 21, 2015, 10:58:25 PM
I don't care what those losers think, I want my Trigun remake.
+1
+2

But really, read Maximum already, you pleebs.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on November 22, 2015, 05:58:52 PM
I'll read it when they animate it. :il_hahaha:
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on November 23, 2015, 09:21:50 AM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 21, 2015, 09:11:10 PMA third example is people assuming that Digimon as a franchise is only made to sell toys, and people only like animated series out of nostalgia. I've already explained in detail how Digimon Adventure and Tamers are great, well-intentioned shows that are perfect for kids and still entertaining for adults who appreciate some of their more mature subtext. In that way, it does on a drama level what Animaniacs does on a comedy level. The most recent movie also proves how genuinely great Digimon can be when there's effort behind it. Mamoru Hosoda and Chiaki J. Konaka got their start in the medium of animation with this franchise. It's not much different from how some of Miyazaki's earliest work was with the Lupin III franchise.
The toy argument has always baffled me. Did you play as toys when you were a kid? You did? Then what did you actually DO with those toys when you played with them? You used your imagination to create stories involving those characters you loved so much? Then wasn't that the whole point of the toys in the first place?

The toy argument doesn't wash with me when the whole point is whether the series in question is GOOD or not. Why it exists matters very little at the end of the day.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 21, 2015, 09:11:10 PM"That's so old and dated," annoys me as well. There are many people who will refuse to read anything by Osamu Tezuka or before the 90's in general because they believe that something older is inferior and less relevant by today. This line of thinking is especially stupid because inevitably everything will become old after time, including stuff that you like right now. It doesn't mean that truly great works won't still hold up for future generations.
This is like that old trope of kids not being able to watch things older than themselves. I guess I couldn't have liked Rocky & Bullwinkle, 60s Batman, or Looney Tunes as a kid then. I don't know why there is such an ageism prevalent out there in entertainment, because I never saw it until I came onto the internet.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 21, 2015, 09:11:10 PMAnd as an extension of that, it really frustrates me how close-minded some anime fans are when it comes to remakes. A lot of people will tell you that Hunter X Hunter 2011 is better than 1999 because its newer. I enjoy the 2011 series, but on a level of being a good adaptation, 1999 is far superior for what it does cover. People will just resonate more with what's more popular, though. The same thing happened with FMA after Brotherhood came out. A ton of people claimed to love the first anime, but many of those same people suddenly hated it once everyone was raving about the new one because it was closer to the manga. This is part of the reason why the prospect of a Trigun remake rubs me the wrong way. It would be neat to see an adaptation that's faithful to the manga, but the anime that we have is still great, and I don't want to see a bunch of idiots trashing it as soon as a modern anime comes out.
I still remember the FMA reaction. The original series was huge with anime fans, and even if I wasn't crazy about I remember how big it was. Sure there were some people that wanted to see a series closer to the manga, but for the most part they were fine with the anime being different from the manga.

Then Brotherhood came out and everything got nasty. I don't even care which series is the better, but the fanbase got really volatile all of a sudden. Any time FMA is ever brought up in a discussion now, the topic devolves into insults over fans who prefer one or the other.

As much as I don't really want a Trigun remake (especially for fear of the same idiocy), I really hope Trigun fans aren't as bad as FMA fans in keeping their composure and sense about them if one is ever announced. Sailor Moon Crystal was more or less a bust in the adaption sense so that fanbase never really had that argument, but nothing really compares to the FMA fanbase.

Quote from: Cartoon X on November 22, 2015, 04:52:51 PMI agree with all of those statements 100%. People dismissing a series because the artwork looks too "cartoony" or "old" in particular annoys me. I love the WMR guys, but it really annoyed recently when RolloT refused to read the Saint Seiya Jump Back because the art style looked too old, and basically didn't read Cross Game at all for the same reason and thus unable to provide any actual critical thoughts or discussion on the series (leaving Nik to just rant for 30 minutes about why he hates Adachi's tropes...easily one of the most unbalanced and least insightful reviews they've done, imo).
It's because of these anime and manga fans, by the way, that we can never got old stuff licensed anymore. Back in the late 90s and early 00s, when anime was at its peak popularity we got all sorts of licenses of old series that would never have a chance nowadays. They'll look at Ashita no Joe's artstyle and groan wondering where all the bishounen are, just like when they saw Case Closed on Adult Swim and hated that the art style wasn't modern enough.

But it's worse now. No doubt about that. In the early 00s, Flame of Recca, a manga then half a decade old, sold well enough to have a full release over here. Let's also not forget that sports series like Slam Dunk and Whistle! and more obscure stuff like Firefighter Daigo got full series releases over here while Viz only just licensed Kuroko's Basketball and Haikyu! THIS YEAR despite them being two of the most popular sports manga in years. Nowadays, there are series that have to have planned releases because they are literally two or three years out of date and fans will not buy them because of it. This is why I hope Viz will take a chance on the Ushio & Tora manga and Fujita's other works because since he missed the first wave of manga and anime popularity his works might never get a chance over here.

Quote from: Cartoon X on November 22, 2015, 04:52:51 PM
Quote from: The Shadow Gentleman on November 22, 2015, 12:40:48 PM
Quote from: gunswordfist on November 21, 2015, 10:58:25 PM
I don't care what those losers think, I want my Trigun remake.
+1
+2

But really, read Maximum already, you pleebs.
I'd be good with an OVA or movie that covers the unadapted material in a new way. I just don't really see the need for a new anime. Without Kuroda or Nishimura I can't find myself being as engaged.

Especially when there are series like Kenshin that have never even been properly completed in anime form and series like Karakuri Circus that have never gotten one at all.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on November 23, 2015, 02:21:44 PM
Livio deserves to be animated.  :bleh:

I agree that we don't "need" a Maximum anime because the original anime does hit all the beats the manga does despite being made a decade before it ended. But I still would like to see one, because I enjoy that version of the story and would like to see a lot of it animated. In addition, the series has some of my favorite fights in manga, despite how confusing Nightow can be with his artwork sometimes. I have to imagine they'd be even better in animated form, given a good director and budget to work with. But I would also just be satisfied just to have the Wolfwood arc animated as an OVA series or movie, since that is the one part of the manga I think can work re-appropriated into the anime continuity.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 23, 2015, 09:21:50 AM
I still remember the FMA reaction. The original series was huge with anime fans, and even if I wasn't crazy about I remember how big it was. Sure there were some people that wanted to see a series closer to the manga, but for the most part they were fine with the anime being different from the manga.

Then Brotherhood came out and everything got nasty. I don't even care which series is the better, but the fanbase got really volatile all of a sudden. Any time FMA is ever brought up in a discussion now, the topic devolves into insults over fans who prefer one or the other.

I roll my eyes whenever I see a "which is better" FMA discussion start up. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, but neither is objectively superior to the other. You can prefer one without bashing or hating on the other. Silver Spoon is better than the both of them anyways.  :humhumhum:

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 23, 2015, 09:21:50 AM
But it's worse now. No doubt about that. In the early 00s, Flame of Recca, a manga then half a decade old, sold well enough to have a full release over here. Let's also not forget that sports series like Slam Dunk and Whistle! and more obscure stuff like Firefighter Daigo got full series releases over here while Viz only just licensed Kuroko's Basketball and Haikyu! THIS YEAR despite them being two of the most popular sports manga in years. Nowadays, there are series that have to have planned releases because they are literally two or three years out of date and fans will not buy them because of it. This is why I hope Viz will take a chance on the Ushio & Tora manga and Fujita's other works because since he missed the first wave of manga and anime popularity his works might never get a chance over here.

Though, it should be pointed out that the original Gustoon release of Slam Dunk was a bust, and neither it or Whistle or even stuff like Prince of Tennis actually sold very well for Viz. Firefighter Daigo is notorious as one of the worst selling english-released manga of all time, with only about 2,000 copies of the 20-volume series sold, which are abysmal numbers. It's presumed that only reason Viz released that series in full is because of contractual obligations, and released all of the former series as more of a labor of love than anything else. Sports anime/manga have never really sold that well, and I think it's more because people dismiss the genre so much then because of their artwork or age. But with the resurgence of the genre these days, I think Viz is more willing to give some series a chance.

Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on November 23, 2015, 02:32:11 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 23, 2015, 09:21:50 AM
I'd be good with an OVA or movie that covers the unadapted material in a new way. I just don't really see the need for a new anime. Without Kuroda or Nishimura I can't find myself being as engaged.

Especially when there are series like Kenshin that have never even been properly completed in anime form and series like Karakuri Circus that have never gotten one at all.
And I still hate this idea of yours. I don't want a movie or OVA or whatever that starts after the end of the Trigun anime, I want a full fledged anime remake series starting from the beginning.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 23, 2015, 02:38:52 PM
I can't wait to see how you'd react to the legions of idiots who would claim that the original Trigun anime is crap once a new one comes out that's closer to the manga. :humhumhum:
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on November 23, 2015, 03:16:04 PM
I'll just be slightly annoyed while having two versions of the same series, just like how it is with HXH 1999 and 2011 :kabapu:
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: VLordGTZ on November 23, 2015, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: Cartoon X on November 23, 2015, 02:21:44 PM
I roll my eyes whenever I see a "which is better" FMA discussion start up. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, but neither is objectively superior to the other. You can prefer one without bashing or hating on the other. Silver Spoon is better than the both of them anyways.  :humhumhum:
Agreed  :thumbup:

Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on November 23, 2015, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on November 23, 2015, 02:38:52 PM
I can't wait to see how you'd react to the legions of idiots who would claim that the original Trigun anime is crap once a new one comes out that's closer to the manga. :humhumhum:
I'm pretty sure he loves Brotherhood and hates the original anime, so he'd probably jump ship on Trigun, too.  :P

I'm kidding. I know he likes both.

Quote from: gunswordfist on November 23, 2015, 02:32:11 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 23, 2015, 09:21:50 AM
I'd be good with an OVA or movie that covers the unadapted material in a new way. I just don't really see the need for a new anime. Without Kuroda or Nishimura I can't find myself being as engaged.

Especially when there are series like Kenshin that have never even been properly completed in anime form and series like Karakuri Circus that have never gotten one at all.
And I still hate this idea of yours. I don't want a movie or OVA or whatever that starts after the end of the Trigun anime, I want a full fledged anime remake series starting from the beginning.
If you want a Trigun: Brotherhood situation, then that's on you. If it's made then I'm glad for the fans that want it. I am uninterested. I think you'd be surprised about how many choices Nishimura and Kuroda made to improve on the source material that would be totally missing. Unless they got the BBB staff involved, I can't see myself sitting up for a Trigun remake every week.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on November 23, 2015, 04:36:01 PM
We won't know until it happens. :)
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: VLordGTZ on November 23, 2015, 07:55:48 PM
Many people are always going to assume that something is better simply because it's more faithful to a source.  One of my favorite anime is Slayers Try, and it used to be hated by "fans" for not being based off the LNs like the original and Next anime.  Honestly, I've started to just ignore the whole "old anime vs new anime" argument. 

That being said, I still want to see a Trigun Maximum anime, and it would be a pretty good idea currently considering the success of Blood Blockade Battlefront
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on November 23, 2015, 08:23:46 PM
Also, I hate when fans whine about changes during actual adaptations. I've heard someone go on and on and on about a change made to a Juza fight in Fist Of The Northstar. It was so annoying.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on November 23, 2015, 09:40:49 PM
The only changes that ever annoy me in adaptions are when OOC moments are added during filler scenes or whatever. As long as the adaption is thematically similar and the characters are on point I can usually forgive any other changes.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: gunswordfist on December 05, 2016, 04:58:28 PM
*sighs* Too many My Hero Academia fans are still bitching about the first issue being split into multiple episodes and are claiming the anime has pacing issues.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on December 05, 2016, 05:42:55 PM
I've rewatched the first two episodes several times now and I have no idea how it could be done faster without wrecking everything. The fact is that Horikoshi's pacing in the manga is too fast for an anime. I have never seen anyone complain about the pacing who wasn't a manga reader.

Still, these complaints are minor compared to the MHA haters.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 04, 2017, 02:13:35 PM
Modern anime production in a nutshell: https://youtu.be/bpQK9SA9Hhw
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Spark Of Spirit on February 05, 2017, 09:08:36 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on February 04, 2017, 02:13:35 PM
Modern anime production in a nutshell: https://youtu.be/bpQK9SA9Hhw
That's pretty dead on.

Thankfully some good shows slip through the cracks, but boy does it sure feel like it's a fluke accident when it happens these days.

MAPPA was the best. The only sane one.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 01, 2017, 10:41:31 PM
This has bugged me for the longest time, but I have to know, am I the only one who's kind of sick of how the hardcore anime community tends to have this overly negative attitude towards Dragonball as the go-to example of how not to do a shonen series, along with making many similar comments about countless other shonen series, while praising the hell out of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Hunter X Hunter as flawless masterpieces that are above criticism?

To be clear, I am a big fan of both. JoJo's was more of an acquired taste but by Part 4 I was hooked, and anyone who's known me since TV.com knows that Yoshihiro Togashi has been one of my favorite writers of any kind for almost as long as I've been a fan of anime and manga. That said, I'm also a fan of a lot of shonen manga and anime, and there's this really stupid and at least somewhat ignorant mentality among most of the community that because some really popular stuff like Naruto and Bleach (along with a number of bad clones) turned out to have a lot of shit material after being so heavily hyped by so many people new to the medium that by law shonen series are inherently shit, unless they either go bonkers out of control like JoJo's or have pseudo-deconstructive qualities like HXH (and I say it's false because as much as I love HXH, I don't personally consider it a deconstruction in the traditional sense of the word). Like, because Fairy Tale is a piece of garbage, somehow over fifty years of material, including those from renowned and influential mangaka with a lot of historical significance in the industry, are also tainted by it. Like, you know, all of those decades of history to shonen publications that predates any of that stuff. Fuck it. Incidentally I wonder what it would be like if something like ASBAR or Ultimatum was popular enough to give people a negative enough impression of nearly a century of Superhero comics in general.

Going back to that habit of putting a select few series on a pedestal though, particularly JJBA and HXH, the fact of the matter is, that both writers are just as flawed as the other big leagues of the genre. Araki is brilliant at coming up with creative powers for his characters and even more interesting scenarios to put them in to keep his work interesting, but that's also compensation for his weakness toward telling a straightforward cohesive narrative, which is why much of his story-telling becomes reliant on villain of the week formulas while shaking up the formula with different ways in which his characters deal with them. However, for all of that, he does have his issues, and one of them is how he's arguably even worse than Toriyama when it comes to plot-holes and inconsistencies in his work, and his ret-cons and ass-pulls are just as present as they ever were in a series like Dragonball. Anyone remember Giorno's Requiem Stand that he got from using a magical arrow? And as for Togashi, for all of the brilliant ideas and nuanced characters that he comes up with, it's like I'm strangely the only one on the planet who realizes how bad he is when it comes to blatant exposition dumps that are boring to read and grind the plot to a halt, or how later parts of HXH have some pretty unnecessarily obscene moments for no other reason than poorly done shock value. Yet, I'll constantly see people reviewing these series' resort to examples like "JoJo's is so excellent because the battles are clever and have well thought-out strategies unlike the typical shonen series such as Dragonball which are all about power struggles." On the one hand, yes, JoJo's is very cleverly written with how Araki sets up your expectations than goes with an option that you never even considered. On the other hand, he often cheats to do it, using information that you didn't previously have available, which is actually fine from a narrative standpoint since it's still executed in a way that feels engaging to a reader, yet it can't be denied that he constantly sets up rules that he breaks on a frequent basis. Meanwhile, Dragonball DOES have issues with things such as power-ups and transformations, particularly in its later story arcs, but it's like everyone forgets that there's still a huge chunk of fights both early AND later in the series that completely contradict the statement that it's all power struggles. Like, anyone notice how with the exception of Goku defeating Freeza as a Super Saiyan (and Future Trunks doing the same early in the next arc) that all of the major battles have the heroes disadvantaged to the villain in some way and they have to overcome him by some other strategy?

Like, whenever I see anyone talking about the Freeza arc (which is really the Namek arc, but everyone just calls it the Freeza arc), all they ever talk about is the admittedly dragged out battle between Goku and Freeza. But, am I living in some alternate parallel Universe in which there was, I don't know, a whole story to that arc before that final battle? Like, how in Mistare Fusion's retrospective of the arc, much of the first half had brilliant world-building that didn't rely on heavy exposition but managed to convey a lot of new information without excessive dialogue (a skill that even Eichiro Oda sometimes struggles with despite being so renowned for One Piece's world-building), or how an entire huge portion of the arc was a well thought-out three-way mind game between Vegeta, Freeza's forces, and Gohan and Krillin, in which each party had to keep the others from getting all of the dragon balls while also trying to stay alive, even though Vegeta could only selectively fight certain people while having to avoid others, Gohan and Krillin had to completely avoid fighting and constantly hide unless they were forced into confrontation as a last resort (which forced them to completely rely on their wits), and the worst villain of all had all of the power in the Universe (at that point in the series) at his disposal? Does anyone ever comment on how brilliantly plotted the mystery elements of the early Artificial Humans arc is before Cell comes in, or how Toriyama temporarily returns Dragonball to its glorious comedy routes in the Majin Buu arc while also still trying to combine it with the sensibilities that he picked up in the Z-era of its run?

I mean, don't get me wrong, Dragonball is definitely a heavily flawed series. I don't deny it for a second. But it's like people only ever remember it for the bad aspects of the series from the latter years of its run, and even then it feels as though everybody on the planet somehow only seems familiar with the version that's a bad dub of a relatively flawed anime adaptation, because apparently nobody wants to pick up a book and read words or something. It doesn't bother me that people criticize the series for the parts that completely deserve criticism. It bothers me that somehow that's all a lot of people seem to remember it for despite the negative aspects arguably taking up less of the series than what most people realize. I mean, by all means knock something for what it does poorly, but why can't we also get more videos like this one (https://youtu.be/jJK7oysHoMw) that praise it for things that it does legitimately well?

So yeah, I guess this is a bit of a personal little issue I have with a general consensus on the Internet, and I don't exactly expect anyone to agree with me, but as fans of series like JoJo's, Hunter X Hunter, Magi, and other highly-regarded shonen manga and anime that buck the common trends of the genre, while also being a fan of relatively more traditional stuff that handle the core values of the genre well such as Dragonball or Yu Yu Hakusho or My Hero Academia, among others, I feel utterly annoyed to see some series put on an untouchable pedestal while others are only ever seen through badly mucked up lenses that block out anything genuinely good about them in favor of using them as a negative point of comparison to elevate the perceived status of other series.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: LumRanmaYasha on September 02, 2017, 12:51:43 AM
Dr. E-k, I'd give you a high-five if I could because that is one of the most cathartic rants I've read in a while. I've been frustrated with how the anime fandom at large talks about Dragon Ball for a long, long time. Almost all the common criticisms about Dragon Ball are overstated memes parroted by people who haven't watched the series in years or never did at all but want to pretend their tastes are superior so they bash the easiest punching bag just because it's the one everyone knows. It's futile to get mad about it because all these pretenders don't actually know what they are talking about because everything they know about DB comes through cultural osmosis and vague memories of watching it as a kid. Like, when Gigguk made a video about shonen tournament arcs he used the tournament arc in DBZ onscreen when he was showing an example of a bad tournament arc, yet completely ignored and failed to mention the three tournaments from the original DB, which still stand as some of the best tournament arcs in the genre. Or when he used a clip of Goku turning SSJ3 at the beginning about his video on the problem with power levels and increasing escalation in shonen series. DBZ is frequently used as a negative example because everyone "knows" that it has pacing problems and has the most famous use of power levels, but the examples are taken out of context and when you see how things actually played out (especially in the manga) you realize they aren't as bad as people make it out to be. The problem is that the only people who actually remember what happens in Dragon Ball are actual fans of the series who have re-read and re-watched it more than once since they were kids and have gained a better understanding of its strengths and weaknesses, while everyone else only knows vague ideas of things that are wrong with it or its famous for, like the increasing grades of Super Saiyan, power levels, filler, long power up sequences, 5 minutes on Namek taking up 10 episodes, etc - memes that misrepresent the actual series as a whole.

Similarly, the people who praise JoJo's and HxH as innovative or deconstructions haven't actually read or watched many shonen series to begin with. I find that whenever people place them on a pedestal they're often just drawn to the style, dark subject matter, and ambitiousness of those series and think that makes them somehow better than everything else. I'm not a fan of Naruto and Bleach as a whole but its baffling how people seem to forget how dark those series were at the beginning and how their early arcs stood out as different from what other shonen manga were like at the time (which is why they originally became popular to begin with). Because of poor writing and safe storytelling they became what we associate as negative examples of the genre today, but content-wise JJBA and HxH are not as removed from those series as people make them out to be, especially when you're comparing the early arcs. It's the same thing as people who thought Madoka Magica was a deconstruction even though dark magical girl stories had been a thing for years and it wasn't actually criticizing the genre (the original ending of the tv anime even reaffirms it). People who get into these series want an excuse to justify why they like something from a maligned genre that's been characterized as being "for kids and casuals," so they do that by saying that what they like is better than those other shows for some shallow reason, and pick the worst attributes of the most popular shows to compare them with because everyone knows about them even if they haven't watched them so they can easily jump on the ideological bandwagon.

Thankfully, the DB community itself has evolved to look much deeper at the series' actual problems (of which there are a fair many) alongside its innumerable strengths that are sadly ignored by the anime community at large. It's just too bad SuperEyepatchWolf seems to be the only general anime youtuber who actually knows what the strengths of DB are and acknowledges them.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 02, 2017, 04:21:10 PM
Quote from: LumRanmaYasha on September 02, 2017, 12:51:43 AMDr. E-k, I'd give you a high-five if I could because that is one of the most cathartic rants I've read in a while. I've been frustrated with how the anime fandom at large talks about Dragon Ball for a long, long time.

Thanks! :joy:

It means a lot to know that at least someone else shares a similar opinion to me on this. It got to points where I was honestly questioning if I was just crazy and was the only person in the anime community who felt that Dragonball as a whole, even the later Z-era stuff, got an unfairly worse reputation than it actually deserved, especially compared to some of the stuff that the community loves to praise. Like, I seriously believe that most of these people are strictly only going off of what they remember from when Dragon Ball Z aired on Toonami well over a decade ago.

QuoteLike, when Gigguk made a video about shonen tournament arcs he used the tournament arc in DBZ onscreen when he was showing an example of a bad tournament arc, yet completely ignored and failed to mention the three tournaments from the original DB, which still stand as some of the best tournament arcs in the genre.

That bothered me as well. And it's especially kind of a bummer because I do usually enjoy Gigguk's content and the video was mainly about how My Hero Academia successfully did its tournament arc, and I'm all for giving one of the best currently running Shonen Jump manga its due praise. But it always kind of distracts me when I see people come at it from the angle of how its only good because it does it better than average, which they follow up with by listing a lot of examples of other popular shonen series which they don't think do the same aspects as well. This in and of itself wouldn't be a problem if they could clearly explain their points, but in Gigguk's video, like many videos that use Dragonball and other shonen series as negative examples of something, none of those points were actually explained. He just went off of memory and threw Dragonball in there as an example of a bad tournament arc (despite the fact that the tournament in the Buu arc hardly even qualifies as a tournament arc since it's merely just the set-up for the main story arc; and is interrupted after only a handful of chapters/episodes). It makes me question whether he actually remembered anything from the show or just remembered the fact that it had some tournament episodes from one of its less popular arcs and just threw it in there as a cheap negative example to boost up the series that he was trying to praise. I mean, I'm a fan of My Hero Academia as well, but if I were to go about praising the Sports Festival arc, I would have personally focused on what it does right, and if I were to compare it to something negative, it would actually be to a dedicated tournament arc from a series that completely fails at it. Not a series that happened to have a tournament set-up in an arc that wasn't even the main focus of the arc. I mean, you might as well have used the tournament in Dressrossa from One Piece as an example in that case, even though the same thing applies to that as does to the one in the Majin Buu arc from Dragonball.

QuoteOr when he used a clip of Goku turning SSJ3 at the beginning about his video on the problem with power levels and increasing escalation in shonen series.

The funny thing is that this video was meant as a response/follow-up to the one that was made by Reality Punch Studios. The RPS video is actually a genuinely good one, IMO. While I don't necessarily agree with every point made in that video, it offers up legitimate criticism that (and this is important) is backed up with SPECIFIC examples. You can tell that the RPS video is written by someone who does genuinely like and care about shonen, and thus those criticisms come from a place of experience rather than just trying to coincide with popular opinion. For example, he does use Dragonball as a negative example for power escalation, but if you pay attention to how he does it, it's not done in a way to make the series look bad or just about that, but rather to highlight power escalation as one of the weaker aspects of the series despite its great influence on the genre at large, and how many other shonen writers at the time took the wrong lessons from this. When he specifically brings up the example regarding the final battle between Gohan and Cell, he doesn't just say "this is a boring power struggle and that's why escalating power levels doesn't work." He instead phrases it as an interesting question to both highlight a negative aspect of the series as well as directly compare it to a positive one: "Which means more to you; the fact that the world could be destroyed or Gohan finally realizing his full potential and surpassing his father to defeat Cell?" In this regard he highlights his point expertly in that the escalating stakes don't really mean that much while the personal stakes are what makes the confrontation interesting, and that Dragonball and other similar shonen are at their weakest when they focus too much on the former rather than the latter. THAT'S HOW YOU CRITICIZE SOMETHING LIKE THIS THE THE RIGHT WAY! Like I said, I don't mind criticism when it is something worth legitimately criticizing and when it comes from a place of genuine understanding of any particular work's strengths and weaknesses, including Dragonball. I just don't like it when it's used as a throwaway bad example of something both out of context and with very lazy scrutinization of the actual content like in Gigguk's video or other similar ones.

Also, one other thing that bothered me about that Gigguk video is how he mentioned endless filler as a problem with most shonen anime, which honestly makes me wonder what shonen shows he has even watched from this decade. With the exception of older shows from the 90's and 2000's that are still going on (and many of those have already ended, with stuff like One Piece being among the few remaining), anime filler hasn't really been an issue for several years now, making it a rather dated and pointless complaint to make. I mean, just look at how every other shonen manga adapted into an anime is now being released in contained seasons rather than endlessly airing until it either finishes covering the manga or gets canceled in the process.

QuoteDBZ is frequently used as a negative example because everyone "knows" that it has pacing problems and has the most famous use of power levels, but the examples are taken out of context and when you see how things actually played out (especially in the manga) you realize they aren't as bad as people make it out to be. The problem is that the only people who actually remember what happens in Dragon Ball are actual fans of the series who have re-read and re-watched it more than once since they were kids and have gained a better understanding of its strengths and weaknesses, while everyone else only knows vague ideas of things that are wrong with it or its famous for, like the increasing grades of Super Saiyan, power levels, filler, long power up sequences, 5 minutes on Namek taking up 10 episodes, etc - memes that misrepresent the actual series as a whole.

It's why those basic stereotypes of the franchise as a whole is the only "criticism" (and I use that term loosely, here) that you'll ever see from people only relying on vague memories of the show or from only having seen bits of it and relying too much on what they've heard from people who only have those vague memories of the show. For a point of comparison, Mistare Fusion actually has a lot of genuine criticism for the series, but he'll touch on actual issues with Toriyama's writing like his frequent plot-holes and inconsistencies as well as his tendency to set things up for lazy and formulaic things to happen with his characters. For example: like when he criticized how the Ginyu Force were ultimately pointless in the grand scheme of the Namek arc as they only served to give Goku a chance to come in and look like a bad-ass in front of everyone as he easily took down opponents that even Vegeta was having trouble with. That's a completely fair criticism based on the actual material given within the context of the series itself. And on top of that MF is able to compare how this scenario is a repeat of the exact same scenario from the Saiyan arc, but how that arc handles it much better while in this scenario the repeated trope falls flat because the writing has to be a lot more contrived to get the characters to the point in which Toriyama wanted them at, rather than being due to the natural flow of the story.

I don't even entirely agree with all of his criticisms about the Ginyu Force portion of the Namek arc, but I can at least respect his opinion of it as a detractor to the story based on actually scrutinizing the material and giving valid reasons for why it doesn't work for him. Compare that to others who just kind of mention in passing "the problem with Dragonball is the ridiculous power levels and long drawn out fights," which is not only stereotypical of specifically the anime version, but also comes off as completely hypocritical. In regard to the powers being ridiculous, while Goku and company do get absurdly powerful, and while I do personally prefer the relatively more grounded action of the early arcs, that doesn't mean that the fights are mindless or without thought put into them. Just like any good shonen, Toriayma still establishes a set of rules with each encounter, and as powerful as a character like Goku or Vegeta may be, they are usually facing off against opponents who are just as powerful if not more-so, and it's hardly an easy win. Nobody in Dragonball is like Kirito from SAO and just comes off as absurdly overpowered within the context of their own series winning any given fight with ease just to make them look like a bad-ass. Furthermore, it's actually cleverly made clear in some scenarios that the extreme power that they wield can be a disadvantage since they can't go all out in certain areas, like how Goku wants to get the Androids out of the city to fight them since he's worried about harming innocent people but also can't afford to hold back against his opponents. And in regard to things getting ridiculously unrealistic with how powerful characters are, even if they are all on the same level playing field in the grand scheme of things which allows for interesting fights, is that really as much of an issue as people make it out to be? If that's the case, couldn't you also then knock down JJBA for the powers being too weird and ridiculous and awfully over-convenient in many situations? Or, couldn't you say that TTGL has a really bad ending because we have characters literally flinging galaxies at each other in the final major bout? And even the longest fights of Dragonball in the manga only take up a handful of chapters, with many other series (including JJBA and HXH) having their average fights be just as long if not longer than the average length of a fight in Dragonball. Shouldn't people be complaining about those as well? But nobody does that because those kinds of fights are both the charms of their respective series and executed in a way that makes them interesting to watch within the context of their respective Universes. Dragonball is hardly all that different in that regard, IMO.

QuoteSimilarly, the people who praise JoJo's and HxH as innovative or deconstructions haven't actually read or watched many shonen series to begin with. I find that whenever people place them on a pedestal they're often just drawn to the style, dark subject matter, and ambitiousness of those series and think that makes them somehow better than everything else. I'm not a fan of Naruto and Bleach as a whole but its baffling how people seem to forget how dark those series were at the beginning and how their early arcs stood out as different from what other shonen manga were like at the time (which is why they originally became popular to begin with). Because of poor writing and safe storytelling they became what we associate as negative examples of the genre today, but content-wise JJBA and HxH are not as removed from those series as people make them out to be, especially when you're comparing the early arcs. It's the same thing as people who thought Madoka Magica was a deconstruction even though dark magical girl stories had been a thing for years and it wasn't actually criticizing the genre (the original ending of the tv anime even reaffirms it). People who get into these series want an excuse to justify why they like something from a maligned genre that's been characterized as being "for kids and casuals," so they do that by saying that what they like is better than those other shows for some shallow reason, and pick the worst attributes of the most popular shows to compare them with because everyone knows about them even if they haven't watched them so they can easily jump on the ideological bandwagon.

In general I think you could sum that entire paragraph up as the main problem with the hardcore anime and manga fan community on the Internet (much like many communities on the Internet) being that people tend to have this strange obsession of wanting to seem smart and thus want to specifically endorse works that are seen as intelligent while lambasting stuff that comes off as dumb or childish. In this regard, ironically enough, many people have this idiotic mentality of pre-conceiving material based on what kind of outward reputation it seems like it will have as opposed to the individual content itself. It doesn't matter to a lot of people in the community whether they really have that much of a personal love or connection with stuff like Akira or Ghost in the Shell or any number of works from Gen Urobuchi or Satoshi Kon or Hideaki Anno. What matters first and foremost is that these names are immediately associated with a sensibility of being intelligent material for intelligent people. And, granted, these are the names of intelligent works and intelligent creators. That said, simply liking them for that reason doesn't actually make people look as smart as they think, and I've seen far too many badly written blogs or video reviews of people praising works of this nature while clearly not understanding any of the material and in fact completely missing the point of their intended message, yet they'll never fail to remind you about how smart those things are.

And of course, naturally, the reverse is true. It doesn't matter how good or bad the actual content within a work is. For a lot of people, if a work has any kind of reputation as being childish or dumb, regardless of whether that status is really deserved to be associated with it or not, its just a nail in the coffin for it because naturally, as you'd expect, people worried about the appearance of something rather than its actual content will condemn it from that point onward for no other reason. Thus, Dragonball doesn't even have much of a chance of having anyone's perception of it changed in the slightest. For the vast majority of the anime community, that status is set in stone. So, even if I could praise it for stuff like how Toriyama is an absolute master of the weekly format and knows how to keep his work engaging as a page-turner in a way that makes it hard to stop reading, a genuine skill that very few mangaka can boast, it wouldn't matter. If I explained how Toriyama is a certifiable genius on the art of how to do visual gags from both a structural and content-based standpoint, and how his ability to create a constant flow in his panel-work and panel-framing is down to such a perfect science that very few currently active comic book artists on the planet could be compared to his level of brilliance as an artist within the medium, it wouldn't matter. Nobody cares about that stuff. All they care about is that at the end of the day it's essentially a long running series in a publication that was (and still is) primarily targeted at a younger audience from kids to older teenagers/adolescents, and thus it's not adult or mature and thus that means it's not smart and by default that makes it dumb and not worth anything other than being used as a negative example of something.

If Dragonball's massive worldwide popularity works to its benefit, it can also equally work as a detractor. So many people are convinced of whatever their mindset is of the franchise, either good or bad, that very few are ever really willing to reassess it beyond that point, so the appearance that it has to them at a certain point in time is what stays with them forever.

And, you know, I wouldn't really be all that bothered by it, but then some of those people either write blogs or make YouTube videos or comment on those things or in discussion threads, and when they refer to that series under a strongly biased and heavily misinformed awareness of it, then it really irritates me in a way that's hard to just shake off and ignore.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Insomniac on September 15, 2017, 08:10:43 PM
Only tangentially related to anime. And it's not even that bothering, but I have to ask: Why do almost all of these Japanese live-action adaptations of anime and manga

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJhfT_HXUAAEh-5.jpg)
have
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHO7du4VoAAv5ht.jpg)
to
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBBELmhXcAAR5bc.jpg)
star
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJVYkSPUIAAfoVw.jpg)
this
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-bVPXTXUAIDrf-.jpg)
guy?
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Insomniac on July 18, 2023, 12:24:42 AM
A recent tweet thread where I found out the 2003 FMA isn't legally available anywhere is leading me to feel my age. (https://twitter.com/CharredKnight/status/1680706398848425984) Because I remember when that show was everywhere, and now it's just a footnote in anime history. I'm sure if I rewatched it now I'd enjoy it significantly less, but that's beside the point. Maybe I sound like an out of touch boomer longing for simpler days, but that revelation reminded me of how distant 2000s anime culture is compared to the place it is now. From the communities to the trends in shows coming out. For instance, I've been rewatching Paranoia Agent lately, and I can't imagine the series receiving the same appraisal it did back then if it came out now. Even with Kon's name attached, I imagine the reception would either be quite muted or viewers would heavily disagree with the themes. Sure, there are some 00s shows that still receive just as much excitement and acclaim now as they did in the past like Death Note or Gurren Lagann, but I have the hunch that if you showed newer anime fans the series that were popular in 2004 or 2005, most of the time, they'd just look at you thinking what the big deal is. I'm sure even many early 2010s anime face the same problem.

And there's nothing immediately wrong with that. Plenty of TV, movies, books, songs will have a limited time where they're seen as valuable works of art, but then the clock strikes twelve, and they become old hat with only a meager few new audience members. Not everything is evergreen. But to see shows that used to seem like hallmarks of the medium become the equivalent of forgotten books on a shelf covered in dust and cobwebs, once vibrant fandoms becoming ghost towns, I can't help but feel disoriented. Especially when it seems like the shelf life of the average anime keeps getting shorter, the biggest shows of the season can seem obscure just a few months later, and there's no room for the community to take its time and savor a work because 50+ more shows come out as soon as the next season starts.

I want to think this is all a matter of perspective and no more than feeling the generation divide in pop culture, and this is the same sentiment 70s/80s anime fans had when the 00s came along, and a couple decades from now, the 10s/20s anime fans will express that same disconnect. Everybody feels the malaise at finding out a film or a song they love is becoming the equivalent of Dad Rock. And in many ways, it's good for the medium to keep shifting. We don't need more pedestals as Lum and EK said years ago in this thread. But I still have my doubts.
Title: Re: Things That Bother You About Anime
Post by: Dr. Insomniac on November 16, 2023, 09:52:52 AM
So, I assume Mappa's production woes are basic news at this point. (https://www.hindustantimes.com/entertainment/anime/jujutsu-kaisens-season-2-wows-fans-but-mappa-animators-cry-foul-over-burnout-101700136162572.html) And it sucks, because I've been catching up with JJK and liking it more or less.