Author Topic: Dragon Ball  (Read 5307 times)

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

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Dragon Ball
« on: August 13, 2013, 12:13:17 PM »
I can't believe we've never had a thread for the best overall version of this story until now.

Anyways, I mainly wanted to continue with what I was doing with other series, and give my overall impression of this series by grading its individual arcs. I'll cover the entire manga (and keep in mind that my ratings reflect ONLY the MANGA versions of these arcs), of course, including the portion adapted into DBZ. Here goes:

Emperor Pilaf- 8/10 (A fun start to a fun story)

Turtle Hermit- 8/10 (This is one of the few great training arcs in any manga; with a real Karate Kid sort of vibe to it, only funnier; this also gets bonus points for being the arc that introduces Krillin as a character into the series)

Budokai Tenkaichi I- 9/10 (A classic tournament arc)

Red Ribbon Army- 10/10 (This is really a collection of smaller arcs, encompassing a large overarching story, including stuff like Goku's invasion of Muscle Tower, his ordeal with General Blue, his encounters with Mercenary Tao, and his complete one-man assault on the entire Red Ribbon Army HQ; the bottom-line, though, is that when viewing this as one-large arc, this is really Dragon Ball at its best; its the core essence of the series all in one, with all of the elements that Toriyama was best at conveying; if you name it, its in here, including great adventure, comedy, fights, and even some truly touching character moments, along with some memorable villains, such as Tao for being a legitimate threat, General Blue for being fucking hilarious, and General Red and his lackey for their quirky chemistry and how General Red's wish ultimately boils down to him wanting to be taller, rather than doing the obvious and using the Dragon Balls to rule the world; God I love this arc to death)

Fortuneteller Baba- 7/10 (Its an OK arc, and I give it bonus points for the touching scene where Goku meets his grandfather after so many years, but overall it had the unlucky spot of being right after one of the best arcs in the entire series)

Budokai Tenkaichi II- 10/10 (By far the best tournament arc in the series; and Goku's rivalry with Tenshinhan lead to one of the best fights in the entire series, IMO)

King Piccolo- 9/10 (The first arc in the series that was almost entirely serious, with the comedy being mostly underplayed throughout the arc; in that regard, it was surprisingly effective and really brought in a truly memorable villain for Goku to face; this was also the perfect arc to pretty much close out Goku's childhood, since it was the last time point in the series where we got to see him as a kid)

Budokai Tenkaichi III/Piccolo Jr.- 8/10 (This was a mostly good arc, but it felt a bit too centered around Goku's rivalry with Piccolo, and the other characters aside from Kami seemed to be shoved to the side, which unfortunately was a problem that only got worse in future arcs)

Saiyan Saga- 10/10 (This was easily the high point of Goku's adulthood story-lines, IMO; We had the drama ratcheted up to an all time high, with Goku getting killed off right in the beginning of the arc and having Gohan taken to be trained by his own rival and mortal enemy, Piccolo; the sheer desperation of the characters in this arc really kept it feeling both tense and exciting at all times, and what I love about this arc the most is that the battles with Raditz, Nappa, and finally Vegeta all HEAVILY relied on TEAMWORK; granted that, Goku killed Nappa on his own, but his friends were only able to stall him by working together and sacrificing most of their lives in the process, and when it came time to face Vegeta, Goku clearly would have died had Gohan and Krilling not turned back to help him; this arc also introduced King Kai as well, who is my favorite master for Goku)

Namek Saga- 9/10 (It really is a great arc on the whole, and it could've been a solid 10, but the final fight between Goku and Frieza ultimately drags it down for me; even so, everything up to that point is brilliant, from the first half of the arc where Gohan, Krillin, and Bulma have to lay low and try their best to survive on a planet full of enemies much stronger than any of them are, while Vegeta has to partake in sneaky tactics to work his way around Frieza and his men in an attempt to collect all of the Dragon Balls before he does; I mean, for an arc that's accused of being composed almost entirely of mindless action, there is A LOT of plotting going on that people often seem to forget about; The arc is great in how it forces Vegeta to ally himself with the good guys only out of sheer circumstances, and things are still great when Goku and Piccolo arrive; things are fine up until Goku Spirit Bombs the crap out of Frieza, and then he turns Super Saiyan, which is cool for a little bit, but gets old REALLY fast when his fight with Frieza just drags on for way too long, and that's ultimately this arcs major weakness, but other than that, its great)

Cell Saga: Overall- 6/10

OK, I will specifically divide this one up into 3 segments:

Part I: Android Segment- 8/10 (For all of the flak this arc gets, people seem to overlook the fact that it DID have a very strong start; I loved the whole initial concept of the arc, with Future Trunks coming to warn Goku and the others of a force so great that even they couldn't hope to stop it, and the stuff building up to Cell's reveal was kept mysterious in a great way; I also enjoyed Trunks learning to really detest his father at first, and it set up an interesting relationship between them, with Trunks both being repulsed by his father, but also wanting to gain his respect; the arc certainly did start out the right way, if nothing else)

Part II: Mission to Achieve Perfect Cell Segment- 4/10 (My God was this segment so boring; it could have been better, but it killed all of the build-up and just boiled down to boring fights, and having the characters act as stupid as possibly to prolong things as much as possible; this was my least favorite part of the ENTIRE Dragon Ball series)

Part III: Cell Games- 6/10 (The only reason I even gave this a 6 is because I like the ending of the arc; other than that, though, the fight between Goku and Cell is boring and dragged out, and the fight between Gohan and Cell doesn't really get good until AFTER Goku sacrifices his life to save the planet when Cell tries to self-destruct; the ending with the beam-struggle and Goku supporting his son by speaking to him through King Kai is actually one of my favorite moments in the entire series, though, which is the only thing that put this portion of the arc above a 5, for me)

Majin Buu- 8/10 (Alright, now let me just say that this arc is SO misrepresented in the anime; This arc was the PERFECT way to close out and send-off the entire Dragon Ball series....in the manga; it was basically an homage to the older arcs, from Emperor Pilaf to the Red Ribbon Army; the tone was comedic more often than you'd expect, and even when it was serious, there was still a lot of elements that gave you a sense of adventure as well as magic and mysticism akin to the older arcs of the series, rather than going with the sci-fi vibe of the rest of Goku's adulthood tales; overall this was a really fun arc and still felt big enough to be the conclusion to such an epic manga series)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 12:16:11 PM by Ensatsu-ken »

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 08:05:47 PM »
Oh boy, this is going to take a while.

Emperor Pilaf- 8/10

I watched this arc so many times as a kid because it was the only thing Dragon Ball we got licensed. The manga is more or less the same so I'll just say that it's a fun adventure arc with some wacky comedy. A good start.

Turtle Hermit- 9/10

This is my favorite training arc in all of shonen manga and anime. It's funny, clever, and introduces one of my favorite characters. This is where the manga really comes into its own as a fun adventure series.

Budokai Tenkaichi I- 9/10

The follow-up to the training arc, I like this just as much. The only issue is that some fights are just plain filler, but the finale is excellent.

Red Ribbon Army- 10/10

It just gets better and better. This is basically a series of adventure vignettes tied together by a loose theme, but they are ALL excellent! Special points for the ending where Goku finally has enough of these guys and decides to stop them. Another great thing are the villains, they really stand out here.

Fortuneteller Baba- 6/10

Ummm, I'm sorry if this seems too low, but I really just don't like much of anything in this arc aside from Gohan. It's filler, and very safe and predictable filler.

Budokai Tenkaichi II- 10/10

While the last tournament was a bit shaky at times, this was great the whole way through. Krillin really came a long way since the manga's start and it was good to see him really put it up against Goku. Every fight here is pretty great. The finale is probably the best fight in Dragon Ball.

King Piccolo- 10/10

The first serious arc is pulled off exceptionally well by starting out on such a shocking note. Though considering what Goku does to the villain I'm talking about it kind of makes said character's death a bit of a head-scratcher considering the fight they had in the previous arc. I'll just go with 'he snuck up on him'. Otherwise, this is pretty great stuff all around.

Budokai Tenkaichi III/Piccolo Jr.- 8/10

A good ending arc that brought everything to a good end. Goku finally winning the tournament was a good capper, too. It's no surprise they wanted him to bring this back, there's barely a dull moment in Dragon Ball.

Saiyan Saga- 9/10

This was an excellent start to the adult series that introduced some fun characters and played around a bit with fighting styles. I wish there were more fights in the series like the Raditz and Nappa fight, though.

Namek Saga- 9/10

So close to being perfect, in my opinion. Had this been the ending point it would have been a 10, but making Frieza not only survive the epic final battle but make the new guy kill him in one hit is just... well, silly. Frieza issues aside, everything else about this is great space opera style action and would have been the perfect place to end it.

Cell Saga: Overall- 5/10

Part I: Android Segment- 7/10

Future Trunks is a cool character, the mystery element is played up well... but every character that isn't super saiyan (and Piccolo for like ten minutes) is essentially thrown in the trash. There are some good character moments here, but on an action level it isn't as good as what came before, but...

Part II: Mission to Achieve Perfect Cell Segment- 4/10

This was just boring. Some characters act stupid, others don't do anything. This felt like total padding.

Part III: Cell Games- 5/10

Point for having someone other than Goku do the clean up, but everything else was just silly. The "set-up" was just every character having their turn against Cell or having their butts kicked (thanks for that, Toriyama!) by ugly babies. Android 16's sacrifice and Gohan's win were the best parts of this otherwise very boring arc.

Majin Buu- 5/10

Yes, I can only judge this on the anime, but... yeah, I was pretty done by this point. No golden hair? Out to the trash with you. The best part was easily Mystic Gohan who got jobbed for Goku fanboys, and the Vegitto fusion was clever. Otherwise... Eh. This might have been better if this was made right after the Namek arc instead of after Cell when they made 90% of the characters useless.

Overall, I obviously prefer Dragon Ball, but the Z series has its high points too. I just wish he handled post-Namek WAY better than he did.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 08:19:18 PM by Spark Of Spirit »
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Dr. Ensatsu-ken

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 09:39:48 PM »
It seems like you and me pretty much agree with everything about the quality of each arc of the series, for the most part. As far as the Majin Buu arc goes, I do agree that it sucks in the anime at least, so I can't fault you for its low ranking if that's the version your basing your opinion off of. Either way, though, other than that I do pretty much agree with you about the quality of the other arcs in the story.

I think we can both agree that overall, the Red Ribbon Army arc was probably Dragon Ball at its absolute best, with just the perfect mix and balance between comedy, drama, adventure, and action. On that note, my personal favorite segment of that entire arc was the Mercenary Tao ordeal, including the portion involving Goku climbing Korin's Tower and attempting to retrieve the sacred water. That's honestly just as good of a training arc as the Turtle Hermit one was, but it has a lot of serious weight to it as well.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 09:41:51 PM by Ensatsu-ken »

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 09:41:38 PM »
Yeah, the Red Ribbon Army was pure adventure and had all different kinds of events going on within it. The best part? Not a second of it dragged on.
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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 11:38:54 PM »
Man, I can't believe there wasn't a thread for this manga before today! After the works of Tezuka, it's probably the most influential manga of all time, for better or worse.

STORY TIME: Without Dragonball I probably wouldn't be posting here. The franchise was the first one that I was a true "fan" of. And by that I mean an obsessed, avid fan. Before Dragonball I wasn't really into television shows, much less animation, or comics in a serious capacity. The story of how I discovered the Dragonball anime franchise and the long road that followed is a tale of mine best left to the anime thread, but in any case, the Dragonball manga was the first manga I ever picked up (not counting various Pokemon comics), starting at volume 8 of the series, and the first manga I bought as well, starting with volume 18 of the Z portion of the series.

Without Dragonball, it would be safe to say I wouldn't have gotten into anime, much less action-animation, much less be as much as a fan of animation and comics in general. I only watched Toonami more because of Dragonball , which led to me watching Cartoon Network and [adult swim] more. I only watched more anime and read more manga like One Piece and Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo because I wanted to discover more stories like Dragonball . I only watched shows like Justice League and Avatar: The Last Airbender because Dragonball changed my mind on the strengths of action-animation (as for comic book comics, er, I like more of 'em now, but mostly the more cartoonish style ones with more diverse stories with a good sense of humor. AKA not a lot of the mainstream Superhero comics I've tried to read, sorry  :P). Without the fact that FUNimation dubbed the series I wouldn't have discovered what "anime" even was (and to be honest, I don't care about "anime" more so much as I care about "good animated series that happen to be from Japan"  ;) ), much less have discovered the Colors TV FUNimation Channel block, which introduced me to a shitload of shows like Yu Yu Hakusho , Case Closed , The Slayers franchise, and several others. I only discovered Toonzone after looking up information on Dragonball Z: Wrath of the Dragon , and without Toonzone, I wouldn't have discovered stuff like That Guy with Glasses and Brawl in the Family, much less be posting here, right now. I owe a significant part of my life to Dragonball . It's influenced what I like, what I know about, what I do with my time, what I like doing with my time, the things I've discovered, several memorable experiences, the kind of people I've met and hung out with, and, most crucially, it's helped shape, influence, and define who I am as a person, what I want to be, who I'm am trying to be, as an inspiring creator, as a storyteller, artist.

Gratitude and nostalgia aren't really all that important as far as how much I love Dragonball itself, though, because I sincerely, truly love this series for being what it is. When I discovered it, it was the perfect kind of story. I wasn't into superhero stories as a kid, not just because at the time I found the concept too silly to be taken seriously, but because the artwork, general idea of good and evil morality, and emphasis on "seriousness" was off-putting to me. Dragonball was like a revelation that actually got me into action stories (which of course led me to enjoy superhero stories later on), more or less because at it's core it's just a fun mix of action-adventure, clever humor, beautifully drawn artwork and fight scenes, and enough seriousness and character development to make for one hell of a ride. What I liked about Goku as a protagonist is that while he's a hero, he doesn't really set out to be. Goku cares about right and wrong and doesn't want the world to get destroyed and see innocent and good people die, but typically, he usually fights for the sake of challenging himself with stronger opponents, which is why he's more than willing to put the world at risk several times during the Z portion of the series to satisfy his own personal reasons for fighting. Most other Dragonball characters are similar, in that they usually aren't goodie-two shoes, striving to be morally right and just heroes, but are still good people (well, Vegeta kinda isn't one until the Buu saga, but still), who, for whatever reasons, mange to save the world at the end of the day. The villains in Dragonball similarity appealed to me because they could vary from the comical (Pilaf) to the ungodly villainous (Freeza), but they are always entertaining (well...maybe not Cell and 19), and while they don't always have a lot of depth they also were able to be taken seriously enough to be considered a threat that Goku and co. must stop and overcome.

Match the characters and story to great, energetic art and... I don't need to tell you guys, you know. I just wanted to explain just how much I love this series, and for all I wrote I can write much, much more.  After 8.5 long years, it's still a big, personal favorite of mine and the single piece of fiction that has played the most influential, important role in my life. I consider it my second favorite manga, after Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, and for the kind of story it is, it's easily the best, and my favorite, and for all the things it's influenced in the shonen manga industry, nothing has topped it, not even One Piece (don't get me wrong, I love One Piece more than anyone else here. I just love Dragonball a wee bit more  :P).

So with all that out of the way, how do I feel about the individual arcs in the series? Hmm...

Emperor Pilaf - 8/10. As far as the manga goes, this may better be called "Search for the Dragon Balls," since, unlike the anime, Pilaf and his crew don't play a role until the very end of the arc. I prefer the anime adaption of the arc, enjoying it's minor changes that, I think, benefit the arc overall, but the manga version is still a TON of fun. It's the perfect introduction to the kind of whimsical, martial-arts adventure story that is Dragonball , with memorable moments a plenty. You can tell Toriyama wanted to keep the story as somewhat as a gag manga, at this point, because humor wise it's pretty similar to most of the Dr. Mashirito and other slightly more action-packed stories from Dr. Slump , but by the end, and I mean the very end, it definitely begins officially straying into a more distinct sense of humor and story than Dr. Slump , which would begin the path towards a more serious focus on the martial-arts/adventure portion of the story that makes Dragonball truly, distinctly Dragonball . In other words, it's a great beginning.  ;)

21st Budokai Tenka'ichi - 8.5/10. I don't consider the training with Master Roshi separate from the tournament, mainly because the thought of separating the two never occurred before because FUNimation always calls this the World Martial Arts Tournament saga and I'm used to that and whatnot. Anyway, this is another arc that I fid even more enjoyable because of the extra stuff added in the anime adaption, but obviously it's still really, really good here. The training with Master Roshi here is my favorite training arc portion of any anime or manga ever. The structure of the Budokai itself is more obvious but these are easily the most humorous set of fights in the three tournaments, Goku v. Giran and Krillain v. Jackie Chun being my personal favorites. Just a fun arc, through and through.

Red Ribbon Army - 10/10. The best arc in the manga, as it's the perfect combination of adventure, thrills, action, martial arts training, and memorable villains that make Dragonball as good as it is. Most of my favorite parts of Dragonball as a whole are in here, with Goku v. Colonel Silver, the entire escapade in the Pirate's Cove, Tao killing Blue with his tongue,
Goku training with Korin, Goku's battles with Tao, Goku storming the Red Ribbon Army base and totally wiping it out, and, as a less appreciated by some moment, Arale kicking the crap out of General Blue during the hilarious Dr.Slump crossover at the end of the General Blue portion of the series. This arc is the highlight of the entire manga, in my opinion, and I never tire of reading it.  ;D

Fortuneteller Baba - 9/10. Clever, funny fights, love the twists with Gohan and Pilaf, for a breather arc, it's one of the most entertaining there is!

22nd Budokai Tenka'ichi - 10/10. The best tournament arc in terms of story. Tenshinhan's moral struggle is great, the fights are great, Shen is a villain you love to hate, and Goku v. Tenshinhan is one of the best fights in the entire series. Just awesome stuff here, and a perfect lead into...

King Piccolo - 10/10. The first really serious arc in the story, and it shines. Master Roshi and Tenshinhan have great moments and character development here, and this arc is where both characters are truly at their best. High stakes make the losses incurred in this arc feel devastating, and Goku's confrontation with King Piccolo truly intense, more intense than the fight with Freeza, in my opinion. And Goku blowing a hole through King Piccolo's chest with the Super Dragon Fist is the single most badass moment in the series.

23rd Budokai Tenka'ichi - 8.5/10. A solid arc. Goku v. Piccolo Jr. is one of my favorite fights in the series. It's a nice finale for Goku's younger adventures.

Saiyan - 9/10. Teamwork-focused battles, high intensity drama, heat-wrenching emotional moments, and some of the most killer, energetic, intense fights in the series. Epic stuff all around.

Namek - 10/10 - Everything builds up and up into something truly fantastic, probably could have been a good ending point for the series as a whole (of course, if Toriyama had his way the manga would have ended as far back as the end of Pilaf). I never liked it much in the anime, but in the manga? It feels like the series was building to this, and everything pays off in the end.

Artificial Human - 7/10. This arc is all over the place. It can't keep a consistent focus on a major character all the way through, and while Gohan's character arc closure is nice and all, it feels like it comes out of nowhere considering he does nothing in the beginning and middle portions of the arc. Cell is also the least interesting major villain in the franchise, his motivation basically being "becoming complete, then proving I'm the best." I like Hercule, 16, 18 and Krillan, Piccolo's fusion with Kami, and even Cell to an extent before he became complete. But this is still easily the weakest story in all of Dragonball , and the point where Super Saiyans and power battles dominate the action to the most bothersome degree. My least favorite arc.

Majin Buu - 9.5/10. I honestly still like the anime version of the Buu arc. I didn't think it was taking things too seriously at all. Buu, the good one, was the most interesting villain in the series to me because for one thing, he didn't look like what you'd expect a powerful, murderous villain would look like and he acted like an innocent little kid. He's easily my favorite villain because of how he's so crazy powerful while all he's really doing is just dicking around with everyone and having fun the only way he knows (and was told) how. The later Buus are also cool, Super Buu is easily way more interesting in terms of personality than Cell ever was, and Kid Buu, a being who lives solely for the thrill of battle, feels like the perfect villain to end the series on, as a parallel to Goku's similar desire to fight strong opponents (this connection is why I think Goku wanted Kid Buu to be reincarnated as someone kind, as he is pretty much the perfect sparing partner for Goku aside from the fact he's perfectly insane and likes to blow things up for kicks). Anyway, a lot just works in this arc. This arc is the perfect closure for both Vegeta and Goku's character arcs and rivalry, and Goten and Trunks are very entertaining protagonists in their own right, and Hercule and Buu? The episodes in the anime where Hercule befriends Buu are the ones I've rewatched the most in the entire anime, and of course it's just as good in the manga and one of my personal favorite parts of the series. This arc brought the story back to it's roots, and some misteps aside (Gohan being pushed out of focus in favor of Goku works in the grand scheme of things, but feels sudden and rushed as it happens), it's a great ending to the series. I still don't care for the actual, actual end of the story, but I definitely think it works, and in a way, the idea that Goku is off somewhere with Uub, continually attempting to push his limits even further than they already are, is just so like him, so perfect for his character in terms of the whole story, that I can ignore my personal problems with it and enjoy it for what it represents. I think the Buu arc, both anime and manga, is pretty underrated, and overall I couldn't think of a more perfect story to close out the series than it. Toriyama, thank you. It was one hell of a ride, and I loved every second.  :cry:








« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 06:54:19 PM by Cartoon X »

VLordGTZ

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2013, 04:51:08 PM »
Emperor Pilaf 8/10
21st Budokai Tenkaichi 9/10
Red Ribbon Army 9.5/10
Fortuneteller Baba 7.5/10
22nd Budokai Tenkaichi 9/10
King Piccolo 10/10
23rd Budokai Tenkaichi 8/10
Saiyan 9/10
Namek 9.5/10
Cell 7/10
Majin Buu 10/10

LumRanmaYasha

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 01:05:00 PM »
A new interview with Toriyama has surfaced.

Most interesting Tidbits:

 - Goku's mother is named Gine. She was once a member of a four-man team alongside Bardock, but because she was too gentle, she eventually ended up working at Planet Vegeta's meat distribution center instead. She will appear in the bonus chapter of the Jaco the Galactic Patrol Man volume that will be released in Japan in April.

- Freeza and King Cold are actually mutated life-forms. Even among their race, they are the only two with abnormal battle power and cruelty.

- Saiyans don't have a concept of family. Bardock and Gine's mutual caring relationship was special, but their family was never together. Vegeta's affections towards his family are also unusual, and in a way that makes him a stranger saiyan than Goku, who doesn't have a sense of family and sees them more as companions.

- In the event of another movie, Toriyama would like Vegeta to play the main role.

One thing's for sure, I really hope that Jaco the Galactic Patrolman volume gets released in the U.S. sometime soon. It is a prequel to Dragon Ball, after all.  :humhumhum:
 

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 07:39:27 PM »
I am also waiting for it as well. Considering I read that Jaco will be out in April in Japan... I can at least see it coming a couple of months later in America. Provided, I am vaguely remembering what Stephen Paul said over at Arlong Park about why it takes a little bit longer to get a physical manga copy released over here compared to the digital works of Viz's Weekly Shonen Jump.

But still, that is some interesting info. Provided Dragon Ball does open itself to plenty of fan interpretation, those are some pretty neat information about the Saiyan race and whatever the hell Freeza's race is.

LumRanmaYasha

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 11:07:52 PM »
Viz will release Jaco the Galactic Patrolman in January 2015.

That seems like an oddly long wait considering the japanese release is next month. I would have thought for sure a fall release would have been feasible. Still, glad to know that Viz is releasing the volume at all anyways. It'll be worth the wait.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2014, 09:59:32 PM »
Since it's officially part of the manga's canon (I may be mistaken, but I believe that Toriyama confirmed that it was in an interview), I might as well add my rating for the movie:

Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods (7/10)- For what it is it was pretty entertaining, but it felt like it should have been a TV special rather than a full-length movie. I do like that it was actually trying to call-back to the original Dragon Ball by being mostly humorous (and feature Emperor Pilaf and company, no less), but the humor wasn't quite as tight as classic Dragon Ball, and if it really was trying to be an homage to the early years of the series, it should've been a fun adventure story, but then there was the part of it that was also trying to pay homage to DBZ, so we had the overpowered villain and the whole Super Saiyan God ordeal, and to be honest the combination of tones didn't quite mesh that well. Even so, what we got was still surprisingly watchable in a way that wasn't as engaging as Dragon Ball would be at its best, yet it was still undeniably entertaining to see. It's an OK movie, but if they ever do a sequel (which is unlikely, but who knows what could happen), they'd do better to pick a tone and stick with it.

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2014, 04:46:52 PM »
It turns out Toriyama doesn't like the Majin Buu arc. He felt that the battle against Buu lasted so long and that it was too violent and repetitious, and he came to hate drawing it, which turned him off from trying to draw battle manga ever again. Well, I love the arc, but I can understand his reasoning. It also explains why every manga he drew since Dragon Ball was a gag or comedy-adventure series.

Besides, it's clear Toriyama's talent and passion was in gag manga. Dr. Slump is arguably more creative and unrestrained than Dragon Ball is. Dragon Ball itself didn't start out as a fighting manga, but more of an adventure-comedy. Toriyama was talented in how he can effortlessly create really fun and exciting fights, but I can see how it got boring for him to draw long battles and story arcs by the time he was working on the Buu saga, when it's clear he'd rather work on shorter-length stories with comedic character interactions.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 04:49:10 PM by Cartoon X »

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2014, 04:53:51 PM »
The end of Namek was the best time to end it, honestly. I know a lot of people like Cell and Buu, but they have always felt extraneous to me. The Saiyan and Namek were one long story that had an end and the other two were self-contained and not much of value would have been lost without them.

But yeah, he has said that by Dragon Ball's end he had no desire to ever make a long running series again and it's amazing how long he has kept true to that word.
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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2014, 05:08:59 PM »
I find it funny that he says that about the Buu arc when that was far mor gag-oriented than any of the previous "adult" Goku arcs. He should've said that about the Cell saga instead.

Also, the Buu arc was shorter than Namek in the manga, and I still feel that it's problems mostly stemmed from the anime version.

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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2014, 05:10:55 PM »
I guess that's the reason he wrote it so comedic, because that was what he preferred to be writing instead of what he actually was writing.

But everyone already knows about how pushy Jump can be when they have a hit.
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Re: Dragon Ball
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2014, 05:19:39 PM »
I still think that's what Bakuman was referencing in regard to the second arc of Death Note. I can totally believe that Ohba and Obata wanted to end things with the L arc, but ended up being forced to continue by the Jump editors due to the massive popularity of the series at the time. And keep in mind, this is coming from someone who actually still liked the second half of Death Note despite its problems. But still, I have to admit that the series would have been much better off with the same set-up of an ending, only with L in the place of Near, having defeated Light as I'm sure that Ohba probably would've preferred. But then along comes Jump to milk the series as much as they possibly could, and in that circumstance I think the duo really managed to make the best of a bad situation, but the drop in quality was still unavoidable.