Author Topic: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction  (Read 3092 times)

Spark Of Spirit

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2014, 04:40:18 PM »
He was going to direct it, but he had a falling out with Spielberg so he didn't do it. Compared to other sequels where he wasn't involved, it was actually pretty good.
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talonmalon333

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2014, 12:30:03 PM »
Because of recent events...

Alien

3 and Resurrection are non-canon, and not just because they are bad, but also because they go against the first two movies (that egg getting planted on the ship makes no sense considering the queen died).

And here's another one that I forgot to mention before.

Yu Yu Hakusho

The anime is the canon version to me. I consider the manga to be a rough draft (and, in the case of the fourth arc, a very sloppy rough draft). Why wouldn't I consider the fleshed out and complete version of the Three Kings story line to be canon? The anime is also the version that completes the story of Yusuke's development, and that's an important theme in the story. If the manga disregards that, then it fits right into my ideas on intent.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2014, 12:41:50 PM »
Agents of SHIELD is non-canon to the MCU. Unless they directly reference it I. The films in a way that's impossible to ignore (which to my knowledge they haven't done yet), I can go on pretending that it doesn't exist.

Yu Yu Hakusho

The anime is the canon version to me. I consider the manga to be a rough draft (and, in the case of the fourth arc, a very sloppy rough draft). Why wouldn't I consider the fleshed out and complete version of the Three Kings story line to be canon? The anime is also the version that completes the story of Yusuke's development, and that's an important theme in the story. If the manga disregards that, then it fits right into my ideas on intent.

I really don't get the point of calling on canon and the other one non-canon, because you do realize that the anime covers mostly the same story as the manga with the exception of making minor changes (such as Yusuke's mom accompanying him to the Dark Tournament in the manga but not in the anime, which didn't really have an effect on the plot, either way), don't you? The main difference between the 2 is that the anime adds filler scenes that unlike most other shounen anime, actually help add to the flow of the story, rather than feel completely out of place. In that regard you could say that the added scenes in the anime should be considered canon and leave it at that. To call the manga just a rough draft wouldn't be entirely accurate, though, because it also has scenes early and late in the manga that were never animated, including how Kurama and Hiei met (which I myself consider to be canon, and don't recall seeing in the anime). Actually, there are a bunch of small stories featuring Yusuke as a ghost, and some other stories toward the end of the manga where they partake in some one-shot shenanigans that is actually quite fun and humorous and doesn't conflict with any other story-lines which I would consider canon as well (and those also didn't make it into the anime). The only part where you'd have a major conflict is the ending, in which case you could just choose whichever version that you prefer. In the end of the manga, Genkai has passed away and leaves her lands to Yusuke and his friends, whereas she is still alive at the end of the anime, so it's up to you which ending you see as canon. Other than that, I'd accept the parts unique to the anime and the parts unique to the anime as both being canon since neither directly conflicts with each other.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 12:45:18 PM by Dr. Ensatsu-ken »

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2014, 12:48:09 PM »
Oh, wait, I actually forgot that the anime slightly alters a story-line when Yusuke's a ghost and completely changes the role of a minor character from the manga in doing so, in which case I'd pick the manga's version of the ghost story-arc as canon, which is one of the very few instances in which I prefer something from the manga over the a anime. I still hold true to what I said in regard to the rest of the series, though.

Spark Of Spirit

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2014, 12:54:15 PM »
I've heard Agents of Shield goes back on a promise Nick Fury made at the end of Winter Soldier. If that's true, then I'm definitely going to consider in non-canon. I haven't been able to confirm it, but I'm not going to waste my time watching it to find out.
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Dr. Ensatsu-ken

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2014, 12:57:18 PM »
Oh, here's another one:

Bad Boys, Shounan Junai Gumi, and the original GTO manga are all canon. Shounan 14 Days and Paradise Lost are not. The series just really lost its way after the original GTO, IMO.

talonmalon333

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2014, 01:00:50 PM »
Agents of SHIELD is non-canon to the MCU. Unless they directly reference it I. The films in a way that's impossible to ignore (which to my knowledge they haven't done yet), I can go on pretending that it doesn't exist.

Yu Yu Hakusho

The anime is the canon version to me. I consider the manga to be a rough draft (and, in the case of the fourth arc, a very sloppy rough draft). Why wouldn't I consider the fleshed out and complete version of the Three Kings story line to be canon? The anime is also the version that completes the story of Yusuke's development, and that's an important theme in the story. If the manga disregards that, then it fits right into my ideas on intent.

I really don't get the point of calling on canon and the other one non-canon, because you do realize that the anime covers mostly the same story as the manga with the exception of making minor changes (such as Yusuke's mom accompanying him to the Dark Tournament in the manga but not in the anime, which didn't really have an effect on the plot, either way), don't you? The main difference between the 2 is that the anime adds filler scenes that unlike most other shounen anime, actually help add to the flow of the story, rather than feel completely out of place. In that regard you could say that the added scenes in the anime should be considered canon and leave it at that. To call the manga just a rough draft wouldn't be entirely accurate, though, because it also has scenes early and late in the manga that were never animated, including how Kurama and Hiei met (which I myself consider to be canon, and don't recall seeing in the anime). Actually, there are a bunch of small stories featuring Yusuke as a ghost, and some other stories toward the end of the manga where they partake in some one-shot shenanigans that is actually quite fun and humorous and doesn't conflict with any other story-lines which I would consider canon as well (and those also didn't make it into the anime). The only part where you'd have a major conflict is the ending, in which case you could just choose whichever version that you prefer. In the end of the manga, Genkai has passed away and leaves her lands to Yusuke and his friends, whereas she is still alive at the end of the anime, so it's up to you which ending you see as canon. Other than that, I'd accept the parts unique to the anime and the parts unique to the anime as both being canon since neither directly conflicts with each other.

I guess so. The best way to put it is probably that they are both canon, but both versions are missing a few pages that they other has (with the exception of the few times where the anime and manga simply differ). However, I will still say that, to me, the anime version of the Three Kings arc is the canon version. That's really what I wanted to establish in that post.

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2014, 01:07:40 PM »
I need to re-read the manga version to see if there are major story conflicts, but I would certainly agree in terms of preferring the anime version to the manga. That arc was so rushed and disjointed in the manga, and the scenes that the anime added (including an entire episode of material that was never included in the manga) were completely welcome and really helped to flesh out the arc.

While it would of course never actually happen, part of me always wished for Togashi to go back and re-write that arc while in his A-game.

On another note:

The Trunks and Bardock specials of DBZ are canon to the manga. If you try to argue with me I'll just ignore you. They are both too awesome and well-written to not be candied red canon.

I also like to consider most of the Dragon Ball filler canon, especially the stuff with Colonel Silver and the parts that expanded Tenshinhan's character.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 01:10:14 PM by Dr. Ensatsu-ken »

talonmalon333

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2014, 01:09:10 PM »
Also, I have to say that I wish I could knock the Star Wars prequels out of canon. But they just happen to be so much harder to forget compared to many of the sequels listed in this thread. I guess the problem largely is that they were written by George Lucas, and the amount of drama surrounding Lucas makes the prequels so hard to forget. They are basically landmarks in the history of cinema failures.

There is also the fact that I'm willing to bet that the sequel trilogy will make a point of establishing the events of the prequel storylines. But really, the story is just so much better if we say the prequels aren't canon.

I need to re-read the manga version to see if there are major story conflicts, but I would certainly agree in terms of preferring the anime version to the manga. That arc was so rushed and disjointed in the manga, and the scenes that the anime added (including an entire episode of material that was never included in the manga) were completely welcome and really helped to flesh out the arc.

While it would of course never actually happen, part of me always wished for Togashi to go back and re-write that arc while in his A-game.

In the style of a Demon World war!

Spark Of Spirit

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2014, 01:11:33 PM »
The anime version of Three Kings is the only one worth mentioning. There are so many holes, out of character moments, inconsistencies, and stupid ideas not thought out, that it was almost a miracle that the anime staff managed to fix it and make it good at the same time. I'm fairly certain anyone who considers the manga version superior is in a very tiny minority.
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Spark Of Spirit

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2014, 01:13:16 PM »
The Trunks and Bardock specials of DBZ are canon to the manga. If you try to argue with me I'll just ignore you. They are both too awesome and well-written to not be candied red canon.

I also like to consider most of the Dragon Ball filler canon, especially the stuff with Colonel Silver and the parts that expanded Tenshinhan's character.
Doesn't Toriyama basically consider Bardock and Trunks canon? He just didn't have anywhere to write them down in the manga.

As for the latter, why not? Dragon Ball's filler is fun and matches well with the style and intent of the manga.
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Dr. Ensatsu-ken

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2014, 01:16:54 PM »
I can accept certain elements of the prequels as canon, such as how Anakin came to be trained under Obi-Wan, Order 66, Anakin's turn, etc. However, I just don't want to accept the films themselves. I like to think that the major events from those still happened, just with better writing, directing and acting than what we got. I. Other words, the prequel films were never made yet and we just have some facts about the history to go on.

Also, I don't know much about the Star Wars expanded Universe my those and such, but it consider the KOTOR games to be canon. I'd like to consider the Jedi Knight games to be canon as well, but these sequels will no doubt directly conflict with those games. It'd be nice if Kyle Katarn at least gets a name drop or reference in the sequels, though. He's just too awesome to ignore.

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2014, 01:19:44 PM »
The Trunks and Bardock specials of DBZ are canon to the manga. If you try to argue with me I'll just ignore you. They are both too awesome and well-written to not be candied red canon.

I also like to consider most of the Dragon Ball filler canon, especially the stuff with Colonel Silver and the parts that expanded Tenshinhan's character.
Doesn't Toriyama basically consider Bardock and Trunks canon? He just didn't have anywhere to write them down in the manga.

As for the latter, why not? Dragon Ball's filler is fun and matches well with the style and intent of the manga.

I've only ever heard that Toriyama really liked the Bardock special and incorporated the character into the manga, so I guess he considers that canon, but I never heard anything about the Trunks special in that regard, but it DOES fit in line with his back-story as described in the manga, so it should be considered canon, IMO.

Spark Of Spirit

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2014, 01:20:48 PM »
The best Star Wars books are the Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn. If you're a fan, you should probably seek them out. Most people basically consider them episode 7, 8, and, 9.
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talonmalon333

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Re: Opinions on Continuity in Fiction
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2014, 01:33:15 PM »
Didn't Lucas recently axe just about all the Expanded Universe material from the canon, leaving only Episodes I-VI and the Clone Ware animated shows?