Wrestling (WWE, etc.)

[talonmalon333]

I've long considered making this thread, but wasn't sure how many, if any, of you guys are wrestling fans. I figured I'd do it anyway just to see if I get any responses here. Now's a good time because tomorrow is Wrestlemania, which I'm pumped for. Any other fans here?

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I was a huge fan back during the Attitude Era (I still own some merchandise and games from back then). After that my interest kind of died down but I've been watching wrestling on and off, enough to know about the current stars and such, but I haven't really been following any of the story-lines lately.

If I had to pick a favorite Wrestler, I'd have to go with Shawn Michaels/HBK. I don't know nearly enough about the current line-up, though, outside of their ring-names.

[LumRanmaYasha]

I haven't watched much wrestling, but I know the jist of how things are these days mostly from listening to podcasts (especially from Weekly Manga Recap), as well as Little Kuriboh's satirical wrestling recap show The Mark Remark, which I fully recommend people check out whether you are into wrestling or not because it's hilarious. I am interested in watching more of it for myself at some point, though most of what I've heard about the WWE these days makes it seem like it's not been particularly great recently.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Well, fans saying that "it was always better back in the day" is common in wrestling no matter what, so I don't pay it much mind. I remember people saying that wrestling was in a slump back in '05 and '06, but now so many people look back on those years with fond memories. That said, most people generally agree that the Attitude Era as well as Paul Heyman's well-loved run as head writer on Smackdown! were the WWE's best years, and I certainly can't disagree with that.

[gunswordfist]

I was a fan in the early '00s. It was pretty great. It seems like a headache trying to keep up with it now though.

[talonmalon333]

I am interested in watching more of it for myself at some point, though most of what I've heard about the WWE these days makes it seem like it's not been particularly great recently.

I'd say the problem has always been when the writing misses. For example, nowadays, it's gotten really old watching Seth Rollins getting beaten to a pulp because they are pushing the idea that he needs his bodyguards to win, when in reality he is a fantastic wrestler and athlete, as well an equally good character, but basically will fall victim to bad writing. It seems like they do this in their need to help push a mediocre wrestler like Roman Reigns into being the next big champ. It's also kind of a shame that they'll sell the female wrestlers on their looks when they are actually quite talented, in ways far more than many of the male wrestlers, particularly AJ Lee and Paige.

I don't have too many problems after that, though, aside from a few wrestlers that I'm not a fan of. I'm really looking forward to tomorrow. There are a lot of great matchups. I love Rusev as a bad guy (and that entrance theme, man) and would love to see him win tomorrow, although I'm sure John Cena will beat him. I wouldn't call myself a huge Brock Lesnar fan, but I do admit to liking the character (of course, Paul Heyman is one of the best talkers in the industry, so I'm sure that's part of the reason). He's a great unstoppable force, and ending the Undertaker's streak certainly helps that, which would make it a pity if he loses his title to Reigns.

I was a huge fan back during the Attitude Era (I still own some merchandise and games from back then).

The cell match between the Undertaker and Mankind remains my all time favorite wrestling match.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yeah, I've heard that Reigns has been pretty boring as a solo wrestler after The Shield broke up.

One problem that I've heard of is how WM31 has had a lack of good build-up to it. Also, the HHH vs. Sting match is a great idea....but about 14-years too late. Wouldn't that have made more sense back during the poorly executed WCW Invasion story-line that could've used the star power of Sting, and back when both guys were still in their prime? Also, wasn't the more obvious match Sting vs. The Undertaker?

Anyways, as for my favorite matches, I have a few, actually:

Singles (no gimmicks): Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels (WM21)- Two of the best technical wrestlers in the business basically put on one of the best displays of athletics of all time in pro-wrestling history.

Singles (WWE World Championship): The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (WM17)- It's the culmination of a great feud and one of the best rivalries of all time. This was when I was personally at the peak of my wrestling fandom.

Singles Hardcore Style: The Undertaker vs. Mankind (Mick Foley) in a Hell in a Cell match- Pretty self-explanatory, but I wanted to give an honorable mention to Edge vs. Mick Foley at WM22 (I mean, he spears him through a flaming table, for crying out loud).

Singles Ladder Match: Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble 2001)- A match that will forever be etched out of official WWE history for obvious reasons, but it is my favorite ladder match for how intense and creative it is (Walls of Jericho on top of a ladder, anyone?).

Tag-Team: Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit vs. Edge and Rey Mysterio- Once again, had to be retconned out of WWE history for a very understandable and practical reason, but I just feel like nothing comes close. I can't even do it justice. Just watch a YouTube video of it. It's so unbelievably good.

TLC: Edge and Christian vs. The Dudley Boys vs. Matt and Jeff Hardy (WM17)- This won match of the year for a reason. Because of how risky and dangerous the stunts are, though, you'll never see another match like it again these days.

Triple Threat: The Rock vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker (WWE Undisputed Championship)- Great chemistry, and the match had such a good flow to it that I was unsure of how it would end.

More Honorable Mentions:
The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar (SummerSlam 2002)
Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena (WM23)
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (WM25, and 26)
The Rock vs. SCSA (WM19)
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho (WM19)
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle (Iron Man Match)
Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart (WM12)

And too many more to list....

This is re-igniting my interest in wrestling.

[talonmalon333]

So many great matchups right there. I have WWE Network, and am tempted to go back and watch them. I'd also mention the big ladder match between Shawn Michaels and Razor Ramon.

My biggest problem with Reigns, aside from the fact that he is pushed too much, is that he's just not a good talker. He stumbles on his words too much and just says things that don't sound great on mic. And it's particularly noteworthy that his speeches, more often than other wrestlers, are pre-recorded because that allows for error and correction. But overall, I just can't accept him becoming the next champ over Lesnor. I mean, Lesnor is the dude that has long been built up as the unbreakable beast, who stripped Cena of his belt and broke the Undertaker's legendary streak. That's not to say Reigns will beat him for sure. It's just a possibility, and from the way things are looking, that could very well happen.

I think WM31 has had fairly good buildup. I do agree with you about HHH versus Sting. It's not all been great. But for example, I think Bray Wyatt versus the Undertaker has been built up very well, with the Undertaker making his return and Wyatt wanting to become the new face of fear.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Well, I did recently hear news that Lesnar renewed his contract with the WWE, so it's entirely possible that he could retain his title after all. Two other predictions that I've been hearing is that Reigns could turn heel and Paul Heyman could betray Lesnar (which has happened before), which would spice up the former's character and make an interesting new story-line angle for the latter. The other one being that one of the two barely wins the match, and Seth Rollins cashes in his MITB to attain the title for himself.

[talonmalon333]

Well, I did recently hear news that Lesnar renewed his contract with the WWE, so it's entirely possible that he could retain his title after all. Two other predictions that I've been hearing is that Reigns could turn heel and Paul Heyman could betray Lesnar (which has happened before), which would spice up the former's character and make an interesting new story-line angle for the latter. The other one being that one of the two barely wins the match, and Seth Rollins cashes in his MITB to attain the title for himself.

Seth Rollins is someone I'm especially curious about, in that I wonder what he'll do tonight. He's my favorite of the "current" wrestlers alongside Bray Wyatt and Rusev (even though I think he gets hurt by bad writing). I also think he's one of WWE's more popular wrestlers currently. My friend, who's one of the biggest wrestling fans I know, I think is hoping that Shield will be reestablished, though he admits that it's wishful thinking. At the very least, I do hope that Rollins fights Orton tonight without the need of his bodyguards, and especially without the help of Big Show and Kane. I have a complaint or two about those two wrestlers.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Despite coming from a site that mainly does comedic articles, this write-up does a good job of explaining some things that the WWE needs to change: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-writing-changes-that-would-save-pro-wrestling/

The two things that stick out to me are the bad scripting and the fact that a lack of serious competition in combination with just getting older and more out of touch with modern wrestling fans has caused Vince McMahon to make a ton of bad decisions with who to push and what directions story-lines should take.

I also agree about the championships. The last time that I was following the WWE on a weekly basis I could say that even then the only championships that were worth anything anymore were the World Titles (and now those have been merged into one, again). Remember when the IC championship used to be a big deal, like literally just a mere step below the world title? That ladder match I mentioned in an earlier post showed just how important it used to be. Now it just gets passed around between mostly lower-level stars, not in a clever way to give them a push to bigger events, but more in a way where the writers just don't know what to do with it anymore because they're too focused on who should be going for the next world championship match.

WWE is forgetting the important lesson that they learned from WCW back in the 90's: which is that your main events don't mean much if you don't have a good supporting mid-card to go along with it. In that regard, getting rid of the Light/Cruiser-Weight championships was also a big mistake, IMO.

BTW, Talon, out of curiosity, who are some of your favorite wrestlers from the WWE? Not just current ones, but in general. For me, in no particular order:

Shawn Michaels
Chris Jericho
Rey Mysterio
Kurt Angle
Edge
The Undertaker
Mick Foley
Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Rock
Bret Hart

[talonmalon333]

That article does make some pretty good points. Particularly the dialogue. I already brought up Wyatt, but from what I heard, he is one of the few that is allowed to totally improvise his speeches, which is a very good thing since he's a fantastic talker. So he is a big highlight nowadays. The storytelling, while an entertaining to watch what the wrestlers go through and can be done well, seems to ultimately amount to just "stuff happens".

I tend to think one of the great strengths of wrestling from the old days was that there were more wrestlers.

As for my overall favorites, in addition to some of the ones I praised earlier...

The Undertaker
Mick Foley
Shawn Michaels
Hulk Hogan
Razor Ramon
Stone Cold Steve Austin
Rey Mysterio
Kane (from the Attitude Era, before he unmasked)
The Rock
Bret Hart

I'm sure I'm missing a few. There's plenty of overlap with your list, but I like to think that's because they are awesome.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yeah, they are awesome.

Admittedly I'm much more familiar with the WCW personas of Razor Ramon (Scott Hall) and Diesel (Kevin Nash). I didn't watch wrestling regularly until '98, so my knowledge of wrestlers before that era is rather limited to what I've seen in archived videos.

As for Hogan, I've always respected his charisma and contributions to the popularity of pro-wrestling, but the reason that he's not a personal favorite of mine is mainly because of his (IMO) lack of good in-ring ability. Much like John Cena as a modern example, Hogan's matches were always a bit too predictable for me, due to a lack of variety in his move-set. He did carry some really iconic story-lines, though, such as his feud with Randy Savage.

[gunswordfist]

I did not expect to see Ronda at WrestleMania. 

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Seth Rollins cashing in DURING the actual match? Damn, I didn't see that coming.

Sting losing to HHH was also a huge upset, but it was a really fun match.

That said, the IC championship ladder match stole the whole show, IMO.