Digimon

Started by Dr. Ensatsu-ken, May 22, 2011, 11:45:53 PM

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Spark Of Spirit

I technically counted the Divided arc with the Myotismon arc since it was mainly Demi-Devimon who was trying to separate them, but yeah, I guess I could see it as a separate arc. It's a good one, though.

But for a kids show I still rather enjoyed watching it even though I forgot about things like Metal-Etemon and the isolated city of Machinedramon, it kept things consistently entertaining the whole way through. It's easy to see why it's still rather well-liked, and it would be nice if this was the standard for Japanese kid shows (I wish it was), but it's still just a fun show to sit down and watch.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

I suppose that you could go either way with whether it was one complete arc or two separate ones. For me, the differing environments between the Digiworld and the real world, as well as the complete change in tone from the portion with the divided group compared to the parts where the characters are in the real world make me think of that segment of the story as two separate story arcs, but I suppose it doesn't matter too much in the long run since they are both of really good quality.

Painted Outlaw

#32
Devimon Arc - 6.5/10
I really want to like this arc, I really do but last I watched it... the whole "Hi Devimon.. bye Devimon?!" junk (when they got split up) in the middle threw my entertainment off and dampened my enjoyment of it all.

Etemon Arc - 8/10
"Spark of Spirit" summed up what's amusingly my exact thoughts on the arc.
I added a point for the episode with Tai in the real world, though; Mamoru Hosoda ftw!

Myotismon Arc - 10/10
I adore this arc; I mean, to me, it definitely feels like the point when Adventure finally gets off the treadmill and begins sprinting on the track field. While the 8th Child identity was rather obvious (even down to the 2nd Japanese ED spoiling it outright), there's just so much cool stuff during the arc that I don't feel it hinders it all the much.

Dark Masters Arc - 8.5/10
I like this arc; the Dark Masters are an amusing group and the fight against Pie(d)mon is fun to watch however though, if we're including Apocalymon in this then I can't go and outright give this a "10" with how much I disliked the whole ordeal.

Like okay, a villain made up of other villains' data is is usually a cool move but going "Oh hey, there's this villain coming out of some random-butt firewall and he whines a heckton!"? Yeah, no thanks.

Spark Of Spirit

The final fight in the dub is really hard to watch, too. I managed to get through the rest of it by brushing off the comments, but the jokes coming out of Apocalymon were so terribly bad and atmosphere shattering that I really didn't enjoy watching it.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Rynnec

"Why do you get the pizza, WHILE I GET THE CRUST!?"

Spark Of Spirit

"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Alright, here are my ratings for the Digimon Tamers arcs; which as far as I know don't have any official titles, so I just made them up:

Hypnos - 9/10

I did complain about this arc being slow on my first viewing, but it is really MUCH better in retrospect, on re-watches. I actually really appreciate the initial set-up of just having the kids start to learn and discover things about their Digimon, and how their relationships and bonds grow as this arc progresses, all the while being quite oblivious to what's really going on around them. That's of course where Hypnos comes in, with Yamaki running the show behind the scenes. Its nice that he doesn't even clash with the Tamers until a good way into the arc, so that you've had plenty of time to see them individually from beforehand. In general its just great to have the story start out in the real world for once, which creates and unique and interesting way for the Tamers to interact with their Digimon partners and vice versa, and also creates a fun dilemma in which they have to keep these creatures hidden from any adults (and the general public), especially their parents. There's a lot of standard fair stuff that happens in this arc, including the mandatory Digivolutions to Champion level for each Tamer, one at a time, but the way this is all executed feels completely fresh and thoroughly entertaining, and all the while there is a lot of foreshadowing to later events to come, with plenty of good plotting going on in the background. Its not the most exciting on your first ever viewing of the show, but when you understand everything that's really going on, I think you would appreciate it more, especially in relation to Calumon, who is of crucial importance to the entire series.

The Devas - 9/10

This is another really strong arc, and its where things get real. Now we get Ultimate level Digimon breaking through and bio-emerging into the real world, and what I like the most about this arc is that it forces the Tamers to finally come together as a team. It was smart to mostly have these characters function independently at first, with only passing interactions with one another on occasion, so that when stuff got much more serious and dangerous like it did in this arc, you could feel the weight of the situation in how these characters were finally forced to work together on a regular basis, and it made it feel like a more rewarding experience to see them form a team. The plot here is as its most basic, but it makes up for relatively simple plotting with excellent characterization, and the writers really do a good job of making the various members of the cast play off each other in very interesting ways. This is where I realized just how good of a chemistry the characters in this series had with each other. And of course, Calumon being kidnapped at the end left this arc off on a really exciting cliffhanger that made you want to keep watching right into the next arc.

Rescuing Calumon - 10/10

It's the half-way point of the series and the Tamers FINALLY make it into the Digital world, and it was totally worth the wait. This series had already established by this point that it was a bit darker in tone than the typical Digimon series, and this show's version of the Digital World certainly does not disappoint in continuing this trend. Right off the bat it is made clear that this is a very different Digital World than the one that we knew of in Adventure, as it is not in the best of shape, and it is also not a fully developed world, which leads to more potentially dangerous aspects of this world, including plenty of strange occurrences and odd phenomena. As usual, we get plenty of great character moments as well, but the real star of this arc is Impmon/Beelzemon, who serves as a fantastic villain for the arc, and of course leads to the truly dark and tragic turning point of this series. The fight between Gallantmon/Dukemon and Beelzemon is also hands down the best fight in any Digimon series ever. And finally the encounter with the Sovereign and the introduction to the D-Reaper which is literally tearing about the Digital World from its very core makes for a very high-stakes conclusion to this arc as well as a huge way to start things off for the final part of the story.

D-Reaper - 10/10

Hands down the best arc in the series, and any Digimon series, for that matter. The weight of the situation is heavier than it has ever been, and the entire thing just feels like a culmination of everything that the previous arcs were building up to, as it should. This arc has everything, from great character moments to great battles, and the best part about it is that ALL of the kids and ALL of the adults get involved. Nobody is left out, and of course Beelzemon gets his redemption here, and he certainly earns it by going through all sorts of hardships before he can finally receive Jeri's forgiveness. In that regard, I should point out that the scene in which Beelzemon uses the power which he had acquired from absorbing Leomon's data to use the Fist Of The Beast King to punch open a whole in the core and extend his arm out to save Jeri, only for her to throw his resolve back into his face by uttering the words "You're not Leomon," is my favorite scene in any Digimon series ever. Its the most heart-wrenching thing in the entire franchise, and is a tough but important lesson to kids that sometimes you just can't be forgiven for what you've done wrong in the past, no matter how hard you try (though of course, being a kids show, he still does get forgiven at the very end). On the whole, this arc is just full of intense moment after intense moment. Its one really long climax that never lets up until the very end and it truly transcends the Digimon label (which is a complement to the franchise in general) in just how well-written and well-executed it all is.

Spark Of Spirit

Tamers really feels like the next logical step up from Adventure, and I'm really glad it was made. Though it's a bit darker, it also has a lot going on and still manages to keep the feel of adventure the first season had. I really don't think they'll make a season that tops Tamers any time soon, but it would be nice to see them try.

Do you have any intentions of seeing Frontier? I haven't seen that one in even longer than Tamers, but some people really like it. I don't recall caring for it very much.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

I'm still going to see Frontier, and Savers, and I need to finish Xros Wars, but I haven't gotten around to those, yet.

From what I can tell, after Tamers, the rest of the Digimon series sort of devolve into really standard shonen series with all of the tropes you'd expect, and they also focus much less on the connection to the real world, as well as the lives the kids have and how the relate to their parents and families. I think that's a shame, because that's the very thing that separated the first 3 seasons from any other shonen or toy-line type of show out there. Even Adventure 02, with all of its numerous problems, still had that element going for it, which is probably what still made it an interesting watch in the end (at least for me).

Spark Of Spirit

Boy that episode where Ken runs away has a lot of really awkward jokes. Why are his parents making jokes when their son might have run away?

I really don't know what they were thinking on that one.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Since I have only watched the dub for Adventure 02, I am assuming that it was just done there. If they actually did that in the original Japanese version, however....then yeah, what the fuck were those writers smoking at the time?

On the whole, I do still like Adventure 02 despite it's faults, but one gripe that I've always had with the series was that they just didn't do ENOUGH with the Digi-eggs. That was SUCH a cool fucking idea, and it was nice to see the Digivolutions that we got out of those, but JO was right about where they should've gone with it. I mean, how awesome would it have been to see the kids and their Digimon partners mix-and-match the different Digi-eggs with each other. We could've gotten some kick-ass new Digivolutions out of that.

Spark Of Spirit

The beginning of 02 has a lot more jokes than even Adventure had at its beginning. I'm not really sure why, they frequently don't have much of anything to do with the scene. Like pizza crust.

But it's probably a dub thing. I'll see if it improves later on, as it probably does.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Rynnec

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 22, 2013, 11:49:40 PM
Since I have only watched the dub for Adventure 02, I am assuming that it was just done there. If they actually did that in the original Japanese version, however....then yeah, what the fuck were those writers smoking at the time?

On the whole, I do still like Adventure 02 despite it's faults, but one gripe that I've always had with the series was that they just didn't do ENOUGH with the Digi-eggs. That was SUCH a cool fucking idea, and it was nice to see the Digivolutions that we got out of those, but JO was right about where they should've gone with it. I mean, how awesome would it have been to see the kids and their Digimon partners mix-and-match the different Digi-eggs with each other. We could've gotten some kick-ass new Digivolutions out of that.

IIRC, we actually do have some different Digivolutions out of that. And I think a few of them are even used in one of the Drama CD's.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

I myself was actually aware of those other Digivolutions because of the card game (which I never actually played, but I used to collect the different cards for a time), which is why I found it even more frustrating that Adventure 02 never used them. Though, to be fair, maybe those cards were released only after Adventure 02 had aired. I'm pretty bad with my general knowledge of the Digimon Universe lore, so it could just be something along those lines.

Spark Of Spirit

#44
Here comes 02, folks...

Now before I get to it, here are a few things I have to mention. First, 02 is basically one long story (that later ties in to the last two arcs from Adventure) with several stops and breaks. As a result, some plots stop and start and are abandoned, some characters are underused, and certain plots only get resolved later. As a whole, the 50 episodes of 02 are a bit bloated in that though there are 4 episodes less than Adventure, much less actually happens as a result. That said, my ratings will be on the core stories attempted to be told through the entire series, and not so much on episode count.


Digimon Emperor - 7/10

It's no secret that Ken is the best character in 02. He has his demons throughout the whole show, most of which come into play here. What keeps me from rating this higher you might ask, and that's pretty simple. Filler, filler, filler, filler, and filler. Most episodes have a bunch of characters get together to take down a single dark spire and that's usually it. There are moments of character focus, (the old guard get little to none, however) but compared to what they get later it's quite shallow and compared to Adventure it's a drop in the bucket. There's also the fact that most of the episodes concern someone getting a DigiEgg then digivolving to stop the threat. It hurts any rating I could give this arc.

I enjoyed the usage of Devimon (the only villain of Adventure who never got to really live out his words- he does here when he forms with Kimeramon), the dark ocean (even if it is only really used twice after this arc) and the armor concept is interesting. There are some good parts of this arc I simply can't knock.

That said, when it focuses on Ken (which happens surprisingly little, but is welcome when it happens) the audience is given glimpses of what made Adventure so good and 02's potential. Poor Wormmon really gets thrown under the bus, but in the end he comes through for Ken who discovers he has the Crest Of Kindness (Ouch) despite it all.

All in all, filler aside, it's solid stuff.


BlackWarGreymon & The Destiny Stones - 6/10

This is probably the worst part of both the original Digimon series. Arukenimon and Mummymon are basically the main enemies here, but they do very little outside of creating black spire monsters to attack our heroes. After episodic moments of taking on one at a time, they make BlackWarGreymon out of 100 control spires which makes... the most boring villain in the show. They try to fight him, they lose, he destroys a destiny stone. Rinse and repeat.

But my least favorite aspect of this arc has always been that the older kids never show up to help. I understand the staff wanted to focus on the newer kids, but there's a crucial problem with how they did it. That being, there isn't really any reason for them to not show up. The spires no longer prevent the Digimon from digivolving (which was a good plot related element for why they couldn't help in the first arc) which is the main reason for this arc being the Digimon discovering their non-armor forms. So then why does no one (outside of Izzy in one episode and Mimi in another) ever show up to help? Ken doesn't even have armor to digivolve with just like the older kids don't but he's still always there helping and never being hindered for it.

It feels more than a bit cheap, and seeing that if Tai would have just visited once with Agumon to digivolve to WarGreymon, BlackWarGreymon would have been stopped easily (as it is what happened later in the last arc) which thereby makes this whole arc not have much sense to it. The arc suffers from very weak plotting not typical of the series and is easily the weakest part of 02.

There's also the typical repetitiveness issue from the first arc that carries over here. These issues really hurt the arc, but being that there are still fun character based episodes, it's not a total loss or throwaway. It's just really disappointing.


World Tour - 7/10

This picks it up again with many fun episodes and adventures with kids all over the world dealing with the control spire problem that extends to the final episode. And outside of one detour (I'll get to that), the whole theme appears to be the world Vs the dark spires. Of the new characters, I find Cody is the best one in how he tries to deal with most situations. He's stubborn, but he tries to have a calm head, and he really takes off in this arc especially when we meet Oikawa. Oikawa is the first human enemy (technically) in the Digimon series and has a very understandable motivation that is fully thought out, even if he doesn't realize it. There's so much going on in this arc that it could be considered the best part of 02 if one or two things didn't hold it back.

The first being that it's 12 episodes long. Yes, that includes the actual World Tour, the kidnapped kids, the end of Ken's arc, the Daemon nonsense (it's coming!), the villain twist, the million points of light, and Oikawa and Cody's development. It's rushed.

The second is the pacing that is cut off because of Daemon. This is where I literally thought two teams were making this show. For no discernible reason, two different sets of villains come into the picture and one is not given any motivation or back-story where most of his followers are beaten (really sloppily, I'm sad to say) and he is randomly banished to the dark ocean (and says "I'll return!"... except that he doesn't) and that's basically the end of that. What was the point of this plot that doesn't go anywhere? Was this a lead-in to the next arc we never got? Another series? We'll never know because it comes in and interrupts an already fast moving plot to have no pay-off.

This leads to the ending of the series where we find out who the true villain is (even if it's rushed, it has been hinted at so it doesn't come out of nowhere) and just about everyone joins together in the entire world to finally defeat him for good. It's an excellent ending to a lopsided series with quite a few warts, but as a whole it was an enjoyable watch. I would definitely recommend watching it, as it is still better than most kids anime from Japan despite not being as good as the season before or after it.




...


Okay, for fun then.

Epilogue - 1/10

Davis got his noodle cart. There you go. The end.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton