Ninja Gaiden Series

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Since nobody else in interested in answering any of those questions, I'll ask a simpler one:

What do you guys think of Team Ninja's "apparent" decision to finally cave in and break the series's age-old traditional difficulty to be more accessible to the casual gamers out there? And by this, I don't just mean if you personally think its stupid or brilliant or are indifferent to it (though, by all means I encourage you to share your own personal thoughts about it), but also if you think it will really help make for a "better" game, or at least a more successful game in terms or reviews and sales.

To be fair, I'm sure that even Hayashi wouldn't be so stupid as to not include harder difficulties for the more hardcore fans of the series, so its not like the entire game will be easy, but its still a big change. That is to say that, in the past while Team Ninja had easier difficulties like Acolyte mode in NG2, it was made so that it would be easier for the more veteran players while still being just challenging enough for newcomers to the series (but apparently most newcomers found it too challenging). In this case, it seems like Team Ninja is dead-set on making an easy mode as easy as possible so that newcomers can breeze through it.

As for my thoughts, I personally couldn't care less as to whether it had a truly easy mode to it for those that want an easier experience, just so long as they actually included the harder difficulties for the veteran players. That said, whether they do or not is not even my main concern, as I still have little faith in this game actually turning out to be all that good at this current point in time, based on Hayashi's track record as a game developer so far.

[Spark Of Spirit]

All they need to do to make an action game "more accessible" is to offer multiple difficulty levels while making the default difficulty selection relatively easy.

Why easy? Because the current generation of gamers want to breeze through the game and feel like they are awesome. BUT they can't lower the difficulty to easy for some pride related reasons (there were surveys conducted on this, IIRC) as that's simply no good for them! The easy solution would be to make a NG game like the other two, then lower the difficulty to Ninja Dog and make that the default difficulty while having the proper difficulty levels still there for everyone else.

They don't need to make things "easier", all the common gamer wants is the illusion that they are good. You don't need to dumb the levels or enemies down to do that, just make the default difficulty really easy for the casuals while leaving the real difficulty untouched for everyone else.

I actually think Kamiya should have done that for Viewtiful Joe, as the game got a bad rap because of Adult difficulty being such a kick in the balls to new players who couldn't select Kids difficulty for some retarded reason. Simply put, give the illusion to the player and carry on like normal otherwise.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I pretty much agree with that sentiment, but its worth pointing out that in the case of Ninja Gaiden II a lot of gamers were infuriated because most of them found that even Acolyte (which is the game's "easy" mode) was too hard for them. The thing is, I actually never tried Acolyte mode until long after I beat the game on Master Ninja mode. Upon playing it, while I could maybe see that a newcomer would have some difficulty, its really not a bad difficulty level at all for new players. I believe that the problem is that it still required a bit of a learning curve and most casual players went into the game with the God of War mentality that you could get away with button mashing in the lower difficulty levels....and to be honest you sort of can get away with button mashing on that mode, but the problem for them was that it still forced the player to learn some basic skills in order to progress, such as utilizing blocking and the dash maneuver at the right times, and learning that some of the bigger enemies have resistance to staggering (so in other words just don't try to combo them when they are in animations in which you know you can't stun them, and just dodge or block them until you can stagger them again). Its really not very complex at all, but for some reason when a lot of gamers find an initial challenge, their first instinct is to find a way to blame it on the game, and unfortunately while NG2's enemies certainly aren't cheap for the most part (they are definitely fair on the lower difficulties, no matter what BS anyone spews out), it does admittedly have a flawed camera, but people took this notable flaw and exaggerated it to be much worse than it really was and claimed that the game took cheap shots all because they couldn't learn some simple tactics.

I think that's the problem. The 3D NG games, even at their easiest, still require a basic use of strategy over mindless button-mashing (and once again, you can still mash buttons in a sense, but you are expected to use some other common skills as well), and most modern gamers had a hard time accepting that style of gameplay.

What I find really odd, though, is how much the mentality on difficult games changed over such a short period of time. What I mean is that the first 3D Ninja Gaiden on the XBOX actually got PRAISED for its level of challenge and difficulty, but was noted as being completely fair, and the game garnered in some high review scores for its rewarding feeling of accomplishment for overcoming the difficulty, with NGB still being the highest rated hack n' slash game to date (according to game rankings), and that was only 4 years before NG2 came out. To be fair, critics didn't totally pan NG2, as it still got pretty decent review scores overall (I think it averaged out to either a solid 8 or an 8.1, or something in-between that, in terms of its average review score), but what I find troubling is that critics so readily embraced Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 for its lower difficulty level alone, saying that it made it a better game (obviously none of them ever played NGS2's version of Master Ninja mode, which is just as difficult as in the original version but for MUCH worse reasons). Stuff like that is what really ticks me off.

I think Kamiya got the difficulty thing down right with Bayonetta, though. While admittedly I haven't had the opportunity to play that much of the game above its default difficulty setting since I still don't own it, from what I have played its normal setting is mostly pretty easy for beginners, whereas its harder difficulties are a good step up in challenge while still mostly keeping things in fair play.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Ninja Gaiden 3 info:

60 frames per second.
Blood is back.
Difficulty level won't be toned down for casual gamers.
There will be both competitive and cooperative modes. One or both will support up to 8 players.
The store is gone. Weapons will upgrade over time.
Greater emphasis on story.
Co-op/versus
8 players

Is this also coming to 360?

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yeah, it was already announced a little while back that it would be multiplatform (confirmed for both the XBOX360 and PS3, which is probably the best decision for KoeiTecmo to make).

I'm still waiting for gameplay footage. I don't give a shit about anything Hayashi says unless he can actually prove that he can make great gameplay. If the gameplay demo at E3 showcases improvement of the core mechanics and adds in sections that take place on a 2D plane that are reminiscent of the classic NES games, then I'll take back everything I said about Hayashi and his lack of talent as a developer....the only problem is that's not going to happen. Seriously....does Ninja Gaiden even NEED a multiplayer mode? I still don't think this guy knows what the hell he's doing, yet he claims he knows what fans want (funny, since I don't ever recall anyone even asking for multiplayer).

The store is gone. Weapons will upgrade over time.

....This game better still give you the option to choose how you upgrade your weapons, since carefully picking and managing which weapons to upgrade was a big part of the previous NG games.

[gunswordfist]

Ninja Gaiden 3 better be good.

[Spark Of Spirit]

On a sidenote, Shinobi 3DS scans just leaked from Nintendo Power and its pretty much what I want from a ninja game. It's got a double jump with platforming, crazy action set pieces, and apparently has good combat (they made Web Of Shadows DS, which has a seemingly great combo system), and is all just as fast paced as the original games.

Of course, it's 2.5D and all instead of 3D, but its just such a SIMPLE concept to grasp that I can't imagine Hayashi screwing this up unless he really doesn't know what he's doing.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

The thing is, Hayashi just doesn't strike me as creative enough to do something like that. Let me be honest, though, even if this was still a fully 3D NG game, I wouldn't mind if he can really nail down the gameplay. After all, NGB is my favorite action game ever and its fully in 3D, and to me its proof that you can make 3D melee based combat and controls that are just as good as any great 2D action game. That said, I would LOVE a blend of those 2 gameplay elements. Not only would it make for some great variety, but Hayashi would probably boost the review scores since even a lot of reviewers these days seem to really love the nostalgic value of old-school style action games and platformers.

However, as things stand right now, I'll be surprised enough if the gameplay manages to be just as good if not superior to the first 2 games in terms of its gameplay, even if its all still in 3D without those 2.5D segments. Is it possible for it to turn out to be a great game with Hayashi working on it: Well, I certainly won't say no to that without having seen what the gameplay is like, but as things are right now, I'm not exactly too optimistic about it.

As far as Shinobi goes, my ideal Shinobi game would be a 2/2.5D side-scroller like the original Master System and Genesis games, but with some mechanics implemented from the 3D games, such as the warp-dash ability which I still think is probably the best thing ever implemented into a game that had the name Shinobi in it. Of course, I still consider the 2D and 3D games to be 2 completely different series altogether, but even people who hate the 3D games still see fit to compare them and count the 3D ones as Shinobi games, so I'm just giving my honest opinion of how I'd want to blend the best of both game series.

[Spark Of Spirit]

At the very least, Tecmo should try to cash in on nostalgia with a 2D Ninja Gaiden on the 3DS. They could even call it Ninja Gaiden 4 (for the lulz) and get someone like WayForward or Treasure to make it if they are so inclined.

I would love to see more 3D action games implement sidescrolling, though. It lends itself well to certain set pieces better than 3D (and vice versa), and would add a lot of variety. It certainly kept me engaged during Sonic Colors and certain segments of Super Mario Galaxy 2.

But then, Tecmo is missing out on a lot of obvious stuff going on in the gaming world like the 2D revival. The death of Monster rancher and their refusal to rely on any non-TN or Musou game is getting beyond old.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Well, Tecmo is already a dying company and they aren't willing to take risks, and would rather just play it safe with games that they at least know will well moderately well for them. The problem is, while a risk could kill them, it could also save them big time if it pays off. If they keep going the way they are going, they will just last as a completely mediocre to shit quality company as they die out at a slower rate.

BTW, I found some scans of NG3:









It....Looks like NG2. Well, I'm not saying that's necessarily a terrible thing, but so far, from what I can tell from these few pictures, the supposed gameplay and graphics look like they come straight out of NG2. For all Hayashi has carried on about how different the gameplay will be, it looks exactly the same from what I can tell. Maybe he'll prove me wrong at E3, but from these scans, it just looks like they are really trying to play it safe with the gameplay, granted that its better than totally fucking it up, but if it were Itagaki, the gameplay would take a huge step forward and it wouldn't come off looking like the same game as its predecessor.

On a side-note, I am kind of glad to see a city setting there. At least the level design looks like it will still pay homage to the old-school NES games in terms of the evironments that you fight in (which is to say that they are all completely ridiculous if this features Ryu traveling all around the world again; which I honestly kind of like).

[Spark Of Spirit]

As long as it features the traditional city rooftop battling that is a Ninja Gaiden staple, then all is good.

They could probably tone the blood down, though. Blood is all well and good, but almost looks like it could get distracting or block your view because of how much there is.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Nah, That won't be a problem. The screen-shots just purposely zoom in the camera angle (it was the same with NG2). The camera is zoomed back a little bit in the actual game so despite the amount of blood it doesn't seem like there is that much in comparison when you actually play the game, and it certainly doesn't obscure your view at all. That said, if they wanted to come up with an acceptable alternative to blood and gore, they could always got the route of the NES games and have Ryu's enemies inexplicably combust in a fiery explosion once Ryu so much as touches them with his sword.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, after actually getting to read that PSM article about Hayashi's info on NG3, he basically confirmed that weapons will automatically upgrade in a specific story-driven order and you have no choice in the matter.

Starting my score for how much faith I have in NG3 to be a good game at 0 (which is from a neutral perspective), my faith is currently at -1....I can't wait to see how much lower it can go from here.

[gunswordfist]

So, after actually getting to read that PSM article about Hayashi's info on NG3, he basically confirmed that weapons will automatically upgrade in a specific story-driven order and you have no choice in the matter.

Starting my score for how much faith I have in NG3 to be a good game at 0 (which is from a neutral perspective), my faith is currently at -1....I can't wait to see how much lower it can go from here.

Hell, it could be worse. The info you posted above actually momentarily restored my faith in the game.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, I just saw the gameplay demo, and my worst fear came true: Quick Time Events. FUCK YOU HAYASHI!

To be specific, there is an over-abundance of them in combat, and I don't see what the point of that was when he could have just stuck with Oblieration Techniques which are the same general concept but much better implemented since you don't have a fucking button-prompt slowing things down with every single kill. Seriously, just watch some of the kick-ass videos of pros playing NG2 on Master Ninja to see what I mean. You get stylish kills without slowing down the combat. That said, the one genuine good thing I can say about the demo is that aside from the STUPID AS FUCK QTEs (sorry, I just can't get over that), the rest of the combat doesn't seem to have sacrificed its speed at all.

As it stands, I already know for sure that this game won't be nearly as good as NGB or NG2 in my book, but I was already expecting that. It doesn't look terrible, but in a way it is because now it feels more like "Ninja of War" than Ninja Gaiden. **Sigh** (still....even then the combat kicks the crap out of anything you'd find in a God of War game....just sayin').

The other thing that depresses me from this demo is that the enemy AI looks pis-poor compared to the other games. I HOPE that this is remedied on harder difficulty settings. Also, I hope that we still have fiend-killing like in the previous games. Don't get me wrong, I actually "prefer" the humanoid enemies in the 3D NG games (they are simply more well designed and more fun to fight), but I still love the aspect of fighting fiends and it would really tick me off if they totally removed that element of demonic/mystic creatures from the game completely.

So, yeah, I may still be up for playing this game when it comes out, but its definitely not going to be a day one buy for me, and I'm going to know to keep my expectations relatively low when picking it up.