Comics/Manga Discussion Thread

[Dr. Insomniac]

The Hellfire Gala's been fun to read, seeing Steve and Emma interact, Doom pissed off at psychic butterflies, and Deadpool trying to sneak his way into Krakoa. But I question why Beast is such an asshole now. There's a whole page in the newest issues with what amounts to his god complex manifesto, demanding his right to wiretap the world just to keep it safe. Someone at Marvel hates Beast for one reason or another. Years before this, I recall he was one of the characters who joined forces with Tony's Illuminati, or teamed up with the Inhumans even when he knew about the mutant genocide. Maybe I'm just too used to the Beast in the adaptations who was more of the astute, jovial foil to Logan's personality, but Charles is also portrayed a lot nicer in cartoons and films than he is in the comics, and the contrast there wasn't as jarring.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Cool that Morrison's just sick of the "evil Superman" trend as we are.

[Markness]

I finally read the Hellfire Gala issues and I am honestly underwhelmed. I agree from a previous post from you that it's really out of character for Beast to be such a jerk and Professor X comes off as cold and mechanical. I don't like how he's being written at all these days. He used to have a good fatherly vibe to him but he now comes off like a robot. I also don't understand why Magneto was embracing Scarlet Witch and then it turns out she's dead now. This is too abrupt. I was also hoping to see more of Blink but she keeps getting pushed to the wayside.

I also find the art to be queasy in some issues though not as bad as when I saw Frank Quitely's art in New X-Men.
I am not sure if I will continue to read further X-book issues. Maybe after Onslaught Revelation, I will consider myself finished?

[Dr. Insomniac]

On the contrary, I think Charles' personality shift in this era's been very interesting to see, since the rest of the Marvel universe knows something's off about him if he can invite all these villainous mutants to his new empire while abandoning his old ways, turning the X-Men into something resembling a cult than a superhero team. I do miss the kindly Patrick Stewart mentor role he had in adaptations, but Charles represents a man who's finally been broken by the endless hunts and purges from humanity, and with the knowledge that humanity exterminating mutantkind is as inevitable as civilizations discovering fire, wants to break the cycle instead of fight another battle with his old enemies while preparing for challenging new threats. And that will lead to a man who's grown colder and distant to the students he befriended years ago.

It does disappoint me that Hickman's passing the title to Duggan and he won't be coming back until September to do Inferno, but I liked Duggan's Marauders so hopefully the change in writers won't change the quality.

[Daikun]

Uzumaki is getting a coloring book.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Top 10 Marvel Comics (So Far):

10. Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment (Roger Stern)
9. Killmonger (Bryan Hill)
8. Moon Knight (Warren Ellis, Brian Wood, Cullen Bunn)
7. Spider-Man: Life Story (Chip Zdarsky)
6. Truth: Red, White, and Black (Robert Morales)
5. Journey Into Mystery (Kieron Gillen)
4. House of X/Powers of X (Johnathan Hickman)
3. The Mighty Thor (Walt Simonson)
2. Hawkeye (Matt Fraction)
1. Daredevil (Frank Miller)

Note that I am including his entire initial run, as well as his tie-in issues from other comics, and his second run with the Born Again story-line, as well as his stand-alone prequel The Man Without Fear in that number one spot. That, to me, is easily the quint-essential Marvel style of superhero storytelling at it's absolute best. Yes, I know that Miller has had some pretty shitty hot-takes on race and other subject-matter in his later years, but I'm the kind who tends to separate art from the artist unless it's genuinely impossible to do so. In that regard, it's similar to how I would still consider Rurouni Kenshin to be my favorite Shonen Jump manga despite Watsuki being into child pornography. I mean, I fucking hate it, and it makes me sick, but I can't change how I feel about the actual work itself (though I completely understand if others feel differently). Also, I'm only including completed works/runs on here, thus I didn't consider Zdarsky's current Daredevil run or Ewing's Immortal Hulk run (which I'm not sure if it's still ongoing, but I'm certainly not caught up to it either way).

Honorable Mentions: Ms. Marvel (the original 19-issue run by G. Willow Wilson), Thor: God of Thunder (Jason Aaron), Thor: The Mighty Avenger (Roger Langridge), Thor (J. Michael Straczynski), Fantastic Four (Stan Lee and Jack Kirby), Annihilation (various writers and artists; and yes I'm including all of the tie-in material rather than just the 6-issue event itself), Secret Wars (Johnathan Hickman; this can potentially make it into my top 10 once I get around to reading all of his material leading up to this event; I've already read some of his Avengers stuff and will be looking to read his Fantastic Four run as well), Captain America (Ed Brubaker; again, I need to read more of his stuff to really rank it, but I loved The Winter Soldier and it's been too long since I last read The Death of Captain America), Captain America: White (Jeff Loeb and Tim Sale), Spider-Man: Blue (Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale), Doctor Strange: The Oath (Brian K. Vaughan), Nextwave: Agents of HATE (Warren Ellis), Uncanny X-Force (Rick Remender), Venom (Donny Cates)

I'm probably forgetting a bunch of other titles, but that's my list for now. As usual, I fully expect it to change over the coming months to years as I read more and more content and acquire new favorites. I had started reading Punisher Max by Garth Enis a few years back and really liked what I read, but hadn't gotten back to it since. At some point I'll do a full read-through of that series and it could potentially be a favorite.

At a later point I plan to do my updated DC list, and I want to do one for Shonen Jump as well, but I'm still reading through a bunch of series (both new and old), so I may not get around to that one for a while.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Top 15 DC Comics (So Far):

15. Superman Smashes the Klan (Gene Luen Yang)
14. Flex Mentallo (Grant Morrison)
13. Batman: Ego (Darwyn Cooke)
12. Green Lantern/Green Arrow (Dennis O'Neil)
11. The Golden Age (James Robinson)
10. Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? (Alan Moore)
9. Green Lantern: Emerald Knight (Keith Giffen)
8. Batman: The Black Mirror (Scott Snyder)
7. Shazam!: The Monster Society of Evil (Jeff Smith)
6. Batman: Year One (Frank Miller)
5. All-Star Superman (Grant Morrison)
4. Justice League International (Keith Giffen and J. M. DeMatteis)
3. Animal Man (Grant Morrison)
2. Starman (James Robinson)
1. The New Frontier (Darwyn Cooke)

I'm excluding certain titles even if they technically are part of the DC Universe, simply based on how they are largely their own thing despite being under that publisher. For example, Neil Gaiman's The Sandman does technically take place in the DC continuity (and yes it is the main continuity, as early issues directly reference stuff that was going on in JLI at the time), but it quickly evolved into it's own thing to the point that it's easy to forget that it has any relation to DC other than technically being based on an older property of theirs. Same with Watchmen and various other titles that are under the DC or Vertigo imprint but don't really involve themselves in the larger Universe. That can be part of it's own list, probably. While something like Animal Man is technically a Vertigo title, it is still tied into the greater DC Universe, so I decided to count it. Also, some iconic titles I have started but have yet to finish and thus cannot rank them yet, including George Perez's Wonder Woman run, Ostrander's Suicide Squad run, Tomasi's Superman run, Tom King's Mister Miracle mini-series, and at least a few others, so naturally this list is still subject to change. And yes, I also technically haven't finished Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol despite loving it. I have all three volumes but I have to start from scratch one of these days and finish it start to finish (and on that note, I also just started his JLA run).

Also, I extended the list to 15 as opposed to just listing a shit-ton of honorable mentions like with the Marvel list. I could still do that here but I don't feel like taking the time to do so at the moment. Eventually, I could probably extend both lists out to a top 20, anyways.

[Avaitor]

These are both really good lists! It's been too long since I've read what I have from your choices, and I need to get to a lot of these.

It's funny, I think a long time ago, you would look to me for super hero book recs, but now I'm doing the same with you.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

These are both really good lists! It's been too long since I've read what I have from your choices, and I need to get to a lot of these.

It's funny, I think a long time ago, you would look to me for super hero book recs, but now I'm doing the same with you.

Haha, I probably haven't read as much as it seems like I have, but everything adds up over time I suppose. You still definitely have me beat when it comes to classics, though. I actually just referenced your old Marvel list to see which other old stories were worth looking into (still working my way through classic FF, and I'm about 170+ issues in).

Currently, I tend to get most of my recommendations from certain YouTubers or Dr. Insomniac from some of what he posts about.

Overall, though, I've definitely been more into reading (comics, manga, novels, etc.) than watching, so I've barely seen any new shows or anime. Mostly if I watch something these days it's a movie.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Good lists.

Note that I am including his entire initial run, as well as his tie-in issues from other comics, and his second run with the Born Again story-line, as well as his stand-alone prequel The Man Without Fear in that number one spot. That, to me, is easily the quint-essential Marvel style of superhero storytelling at it's absolute best. Yes, I know that Miller has had some pretty shitty hot-takes on race and other subject-matter in his later years, but I'm the kind who tends to separate art from the artist unless it's genuinely impossible to do so.

I know this isn't a popular opinion at all, sympathize with people who felt hurt by his later comics, and I still don't like any of Miller's recent work, but after he apologized for many of his remarks and The Holy Terror, I think his views are more muddled than most critics say and he's tried to make up for his past mistakes. Which makes it easier to praise his best works without pointing out a caveat compared to, say, Ellis or Loeb.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yeah, that's a fair enough point. I'll be honest in that I hadn't followed much of Ellis and Loeb's horrible treatment of women and people of other races respectively, but what I said about Miller applies there as well. If the work itself is good I will acknowledge it. That doesn't excuse the people behind it, though.

In Loeb's case I specifically only tend to like his collaborations with Tim Sale, as I've noticed his other works (IMO) tend to range from mediocre to terrible. As for Hush, I think it's alright, but never quite got the hype. Ellis being a creep does sting a lot more for me personally, though, given how genuinely talented he has been as a writer.

Good lists.

Thanks!

[Dr. Insomniac]

I always thought Hush was kinda crap. It has wonderful art, but the story's like if someone did a cover album of Batman's greatest hits up to that point. It's too much of a "Who's Who?" of Batman characters that it feels like a Batman recap but with a villain plopped at the end so they can pretend there's a story.

And yeah, Ellis being an asshole hurts, since similar to Whedon who also fell out of grace last year, he acted like he was helping outsiders break into the industry and that he was trying to break the old norms. And at many times, he did help great writers like Gillen and Fraction find a way in. A lot of the best writers working either at DC/Marvel or on their indie stuff used to be at Ellis' old forum before they had their first big hit, so it's a shame there's a dark veil around that legacy now.

[LumRanmaYasha]

Great lists Dr. E-k! I'm more familiar with the titles on your DC list, but I definitely jive with your choices. I really want to get around to reading more Marvel and DC stuff, so I'm definitely gonna use your lists as a reference for what to prioritize checking out!

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Great lists Dr. E-k! I'm more familiar with the titles on your DC list, but I definitely jive with your choices. I really want to get around to reading more Marvel and DC stuff, so I'm definitely gonna use your lists as a reference for what to prioritize checking out!

Thanks! I'm still trying to get around to a lot of other titles myself, including some classics like Craven's Last Hunt and Swamp Thing, among many other titles. So my list will constantly keep changing.

I also forgot to mention Gene Luen Yang's Shang-Chi mini-series in my honorable mentions for Marvel. It's not necessarily a top-tier story or anything like that, but it's a solid foundation to what I believe was meant to be a new jumping on point for a full serialization going forward.

Also, once it completes, Zdarsky's Daredevil is sure to be one of my favorites. It has been consistently excellent from the start.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Also, I completely forgot about Superior Spider-Man by Dan Slott. That one might actually edge out Life Story for me, but I may edit it onto to the list later.