Since we talk a lot about Bakuman weekly, I thought it might be nice to put it all into this one thread. Especially now with the end of another arc and the starting of a new one beginning soon.
This was a good chapter, as it feels like Nakai is finally getting the wake up call that he needs and in the harsh way that he deserves. I'm hoping this will end well for him before everything goes to hell, and the next arc begins proper.
I always get a kick of Fukuda's extreme poses when he does anything (even when he simply sits down in front of Nakai like that), and Hiramaru jumping out of his car like a sentai hero. Great mix of humor with serious moments (and some serious humor on top of it!) made this a good chapter.
To be honest, I think the author did such a good job of making Nakai the lowest of the low in terms of despicabal ass-holes, that I don't even feel like he deserves a chance to redeem himself anymore. He'd beyond the point of unlikable at this point, and to be honest it feels more like his true character is just that of a perverted old fat guy rather than that part being what's on the outside with the determined mangaka spirit on the inside. It just feels like he's a character who wants to take the easiest way out of everything to get what he wants. It was nice to see him finally realize what a douche he is at the end of the chapter, though.
Anyways, to be honest, I kind of want to see some more focus on what Ashirogi is doing, once again. You could argue that they were a big part of the last arc, but really we didn't get to see very much of what they were doing with PCP, and I kind of really want to see whether they will raise PCP even higher in quality to the point of getting close to overtaking Eiji, or if they will finally come up with that new manga idea that they have been discussing for a long time, now.
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The eff?
Anyway, I sort of agree with you about Nakai. But I do think he was a whole different person before he met Aoki and even though he had a crush on her, when he did the manga (and was away from her) he really did do his absolute best and cranked out some great looking art. I think he let the success go to his head, and since he was such a weak person he clung to it hard and deluded himself into thinking he was some kind of misunderstood genius that everyone was out to get. Hopefully after this series of events he might realize how much he's wasting his life and everyone else's by being an assholic manbaby with entitlement issues. He was a lot less of one when he was with Eiji as an assistant.
But I guess we'll just have to see where this goes since it's one of the few loose ends left before they can progress the main story again like I think they will.
So, Nakai is now Hiramaru's new (and apparently only) assistant. Can't say I saw that one coming.
You know, this chapter was nice and all, but after reading yet another chapter that focuses on side characters, I REALLY feel the desire for Ohba to get the focus back on track with the main characters, now. The side characters are great, and getting to learn more about their lives is a big part of what makes this series work, but sometimes the author needs to remember that the main reason we are into this story is to see the challenges that Ashirogi face together. I honestly want to see them come up with that new manga that can potentially get an anime adaptation, or at the very least come closer to surpassing Eiji in popularity in the questionnaires and ranking.
I don't think Hiramaru had assistants before since he was only doing gag manga. But I'm sure this will advance Nakai's character arc faster, so that's fine with me. I'm pretty sure this is the end of the mini-arc, anyway.
I think the main story will continue after this. Probably with that reunion they were talking about.
That was an interesting side chapter to focus on how their life goal really took them aside from everyone else, but the ending of the chapter... Uh oh. Dealing with controversy should be interesting in how it can affect their work, their careers, and their personal lives. This could be an interesting arc coming up.
Ah, So now it looks as though the manga will be tackling the subject of controversy. The last few arcs were fun but deviated too much from the main story with how Ashirogi was coming along with PCP. This latest development is so interesting because it may prove to have both very positive and very negative repercussions. On the obvious negative side of things, this may cause many parents to protest for PCP to be banned for being a bad influence on their children and youths in general, whereas as for kids themselves, it'll only make it the most popular topic of discussion for everyone, and may greatly increase the manga's popularity if it doesn't get canceled due to the controversy. Now THIS is the type of plot point that I've been waiting for. I'm really eager to see how this will develop.
Well, it looks as though Takagi has only fallen even deeper into his slump. At this rate, even if he comes up with a regular quality chapter if given one more night, Mashiro's artwork will suffer for it since he will have less time to draw. It looks like Ashirogi is in a pretty crappy situation right now. Hopefully they'll be able to break out of their slump before PCP suffers the same fate as Detective Trap.
Here's hoping Takagi can shake his nerves and come back strong.
I don't think Eiji is trying to be #1 for any other reason than to BE #1, though. When he made that claim he was a lot more of a selfish kid back when he started out.
This week's chapter was great (and I mean that for both Bakuman AND PCP, from the page of it that we got shown :P ). It looks like the second controversy that came up in the news actually had the reverse affect on Takagi and rather than depressing him it pissed him off so much that he ended up using his next chapter to directly say F-U to whoever the copycat criminals were.
Ooh, nice social commentary by Takagi. :D
I wonder if this is the end of the arc? The last page seemed to indicate that PCP went back to its normal rank and Takagi was back to 100% again. Not that I'm complaining, but its rare these days were the author wouldn't drag out the conclusion beyond a simple page like this.
Holy shit! It looks like Eiji is actually going to go through with trying to end a series since he's now at #1. I wonder if the Editor-in-chief will really let him go through with it, and if he does, then I wonder what he will choose to end.
A lot seemed to happen in that chapter, but I'm wondering if we're being throw a curve-ball here? It's very possible that he forgot all about that proclamation and is more interested in something else we haven't even thought of yet. Or he could be ending Natural because Iwase isn't even trying anymore.
Who knows what goes through his head?
I like the pairing of Hiramaru and Nakai with Yoshida manipulating both of them to varying degrees of success. It keeps their gag manga antics fresh and humor in the story, even when focusing on other aspects of the story.
Ha! I knew it! I pretty much predicted that Eiji would choose to end Crow since he seemed to be growing tired of working on it. I thought it was cool how at the end of the chapter, though, every challenged him and he said that if anyone can beat him just once for the #1 spot before he reaches his final chapter, then he won't end crow. This should prove to be very interesting.
Great chapter. Now this will truly be a battle manga!
Though I do hope Eiji is able to end it, oddly enough.
The arc is heating up nicely. I wonder who will come out on top? Well, obviously Eiji now, but I mean of the other manga-ka I wonder who will do better.
This week's chapter had a really nice interaction between Eiji and Ashirogi. I predicted that he would end up staying at number 1 the whole time and successfully end his manga. That said, I do hope that Ashirogi is eventually able to overtake him when he starts his next series, though if this chapter was any indication Eiji is still leagues ahead of Ashirogi in terms of his skills as a mangaka. Well, Takagi is at least a better story-teller than Eiji, but Mashiro is far still far behind him in the artwork department. I think that their problem is that they still have a harder time appealing to a mainstream audience with their more niche works. But they have been gradually getting better and better at it.
Really, though, in general I think its about time that they got cut some big break in some area. They have been haven't gotten a big success since the first chapter of PCP debuted. I think their overdue for another big success moment with the next arc (hopefully).
The newest chapter was great. What it means to be the "best", how to make a masterpiece, how to stand out, inspiration... As far as a look into the anatomy of a great story, this was probably one of my favorite chapters. Bakuman is one of my favorite manga because it has chapters like this, something you'd never see in another manga.
This is shaping up to be a very odd arc. I'm not quite sure where it's all going. This obviously isn't a repeat of the "group of people make a manga" arc, but I'm not quite sure what the goal behind this un-shown character is and why does he know the editors so well?
Seems odd, but I'm not so sure this will be a very long arc.
I was thinking that this is probably Nanamine up to another one of his tricks again, since that much seem obvious (though maybe that's just what the author wants you to believe), but I can't really get a read on what his goal is with this current strategy. I'm not even sure how the process works (does he give the old-time authors ideas and have them write the stories or is it the other way around, or a completely different strategy altogether?), yet, but it seems that its intentionally being kept a mystery for the time-being. At the very least its still interesting to try and figure out what's going on with the current story right now.
Now I get Nanamine. Since he was a lonely kid with no friends, he latched on to Ashirogi's manga since they were the only things that seemed different to him. The only problem is that he wasn't inspired by the manga, but ironically by the central quote behind the work (which wasn't meant to be taken seriously, like Light being a "good guy" in Death Note when he was merely the protagonist but a lot of people missed the point) and he's applied that shady lesson to his work.
It's really too bad because he could probably make some great work on his own if he wasn't trying to find a way to make it big through these means.
Yeah, his actions certainly make a lot more sense now that we know about his mindset during his youth. I have to wonder why the mangaka picked now to show us this part of his past and didn't delve into it the first time his character was introduced, though.
At any rate, I feel kind of bad for Nanamine since its obvious that somehow his plan will end up going wrong and failing on him, and if that happens I wouldn't be surprised if that causes his father to completely cut him off from any of his money. I think that under all of his plans to come up with ways to produce successful manga that will beat out Ashirogi Muto's series' in popularity, there really does like a genius mangaka with Nanamine. I just don't think that he realizes that he could probably write great material on his own, nor does he want to try actually working and putting in his own effort to write and draw a manga by himself and slowly overtake Ashirogi in publication.
That was an interesting twist in the arc. I'm hoping the next few chapters really add up nicely for PCP, possibly even giving them the coveted #1 position? That would be sweet and quite the build up after all their efforts.
Nanamine's idea feels like a combination of Classroom Of Truth and Money & Intelligence. I'm not sure how well something like that would go over with the Jump audience, but it has a real shot at the top 3.
Reading your earlier stuff and turning earlier stuff into foreshadowing, huh? For some reason this now makes me look at how Oda writes his manga in a different way. ;)
Anyways that's actually something that Ashirogi should have done a long time ago. I'm actually more surprised that it took them this long to come up with that idea. This should really end up being a causing PCP to have a big boost in its popularity. I hope it goes well for them.
Still, while I'm certain that this idea will at least get them within the top 3 in the 11th issue of Jump, I still believe that they won't be able to prevent Nanamine from making that quota as well, even if they manage to beat him out in popularity.
This was a pretty good chapter, though I'm a bit disappointed that Nanamine made the predictable foolish mistake by being too overconfident in his work, once again. I thought he already learned his lesson from the last time that backfired on him, but I guess he's just a naturally cocky person. It was really cool to see Azuma beat him out of the top 3, though. I love it when the villain character gets their comupances in such a twist of irony (being that if Nanamine hadn't fired Azuma, then Azuma wouldn't have come out with a chapter that could beat him).
I do kind of wish that this chapter at least went into how some of the other authors and editors reacted to PCP's stand-alone story, as I always find it to be interesting to see how others perceive those "big-shot" chapters that Ashirogi does whenever the situation calls for it, though I guess in this case it wouldn't stand out as much since pretty much ALL of the other authors who are characters in this story go all-out during situations like this. It was nice to see that PCP made it in 2nd place, though, but once again another one of the characters managed to beat them out for first like usual. It just seems like Ashirogi can never quite make it to that 1st place mark unless they are doing the premiere chapter of a new series. That kind of sucks for them, since they are long overdue for a big hit by now, IMO.
I have a feeling Ashirogi isn't meant to succeed so openly with PCP, that everything they're learning is what is going to make their next manga a superhit. Though the twist about Azuma coming in third was great, and it was nice for Takahama to catch a break of his own since he was clearly killing himself over surpassing the others.
I'm actually hoping to see where this will go next, as it seems like Nanamine might finally be catching on and this arc (which has only been like 8 chapters so far) is most likely coming to a close.
Great chapter this week, but I wonder if having a new editor-in-chief will really effect the authors of Jump in any real way. I do believe that Heishi won't be as hard on Ashirogi as the former editor-in-chief was as he finally admitted to them, but that may work to their disadvantage since they also said that his "special" treatment of them helped push them to become much better as mangaka. Maybe without Heishi giving them that same push, it might actually effect their results a little bit, but then again, we know that Heishi seems to be very in-tune with the previous editor-in-chief, so maybe he'll act similarly to him in regards to how he treats the authors working for Jump.
It was a good chapter, and it was interesting to see the editor-in-chief move on, but what was really interesting is that Eiji pretty much copped Ashirogi's idea before they even wrote it down. This upcoming arc should be interesting.
And damn this manga moves fast. The last arc was literally 10 chapters, and now we're already diving into a new one. I love it.
This week we got a really interesting chapter. I love the twist of irony, here: Ashirogi assumes that Eiji is doing another mainstream piece so they shape their story to be as mainstream as possible in order to compete with him, whereas Eiji is doing something that's completely non-mainstream for a shonen manga (though still aiming to be at the top). Interestingly enough, I find Eiji's story idea to be WAY better than Ashirogi's, personally. The story he's coming out with is something that I'd actually like to read if it were real. Something about Ashirogi's idea makes it feel like its a bit too pretentious and I honestly liked it better when it felt more or less like a Death Note clone (with the main character being able to brainwash people instead of kill them with a notebook being the only main difference), whereas when they made it so that there would be a hero of justice to compete with him, it just turned into a mainstream manga which is what they wanted but to me it sounds far too generic for my liking. Maybe if the main character turned from a dark-hero into a villain (like Light Yagami), whereas their hero character turned into a dark/anti-hero (like L), then it would be a more interesting story. But, then again, Death Note exists as a real series in their own Universe, so I guess doing that would be like copying Death Note too much (which would honestly be the case, lol :D ).
I like what they came up with, because it does seem very naturally them without feeling like a copy of something like Death Note. It might just seem pretentious because they're introducing so many elements at once, but in they would probably pace it out better and make it a good read. There was also a pretty good jab at Nanamine in there that was quite deserved.
I also thought Eiji's sounded pretty interesting, and I'm pretty far from a zombie lover.
It should be cool to see these compete with each other.
Damn....692 votes!
I don't want to sound negative when it comes to Ashirogi, but in this case even they downright admitted in this chapter that they aren'g going to be able to top that no matter how good they made Reversi. And honestly, I'll be surprised if they can even accumulate half the amount of votes that Eiji got for his manga, further supporting my thoughts that Eiji had the better idea (or at least he's still clearly a more talented mangaka in terms of making popular series when compared to Ashirogi). That said, I do have a feeling that if Ashirogi can get Reversi published, it would have a good shot of being their most "popular" series and have the best chance of getting a TV serialized anime adaptation.
Of course, even so, I can't help but keep thinking that I hope they don't give up on PCP if their new series becomes popular, because honestly, whether they get an anime or not PCP is too good and too fresh of an idea for them to just end it just because they have something else that becomes more popular. But, its not too unlikely to happen as I have a strong feeling that they won't be able to deal with the pressure of handling 2 serializations at once for too long, making them have to choose between which series they can afford to drop and which series is more important for them to continue with. That's just my prediction of future events, though.
The way Yoshida described Reversi added a new layer to it for me, so I'm not sure. I think we might be in for a surprise. But beating Eiji's record seems a little far fetched, yet I can't help but think this will be a battle when they're serialized.
As for PCP; I don't see it going anywhere. Having two series going in Jump at the same time will be a lot of work, but so far they're the only ones in the series to do it (Eiji only draws Natural so it only half counts) and I think of that as something they're going to have to deal with. We may be at the climax of the series here.
Well, in that regard Ashirogi doing 2 series is only roughly equivalent to what Eiji was doing when he was doing both Crow and +Natural. Don't forget that the main problem is that it takes a lot of time to draw out 2 series (more time than it takes to come up with the stories for them), so even if Eiji was only drawing +Natural he was still taking a considerable amount of time out of his schedule (when he wasn't drawing Crow) to draw for that series, but he could still pull it off with his level of experience and his unbelievable amount of stamina, no doubt due to his relatively young age and generally hyperactive nature. As for Ashirogi, they were only able to manage doing a one-shot at the same time as doing a regular serialized work, and unlike Eiji they are a 2-man team so up until now Mashiro has only ever been in-charge of artwork (except for that romance one-shot that he did, but even then Takagi had to end up helping him on it), and Takagi has only ever been in charge of story, so if you even things out by dividing the work among them, they've been doing considerably less work than Eiji up until now, and if they get a 2nd full serialization going, the individual amount of work they would be doing would roughly be equal to what Eiji did by himself, but not really top it (with Takagi writing 2 series at one and with Mashiro drawing 2 series at once).
I marathoned the living daylights out of this manga starting from the beginning and I just finish 152 earlier today. Man... it takes a while to read manga sometimes.
Anyhoo this series is getting more and more interesting as it goes along. It's a little overly dramatic about every day things but I guess that's part of the appeal.
I'm starting to wonder how long it might run. It kind of feels like if one thing or another thing didn't happen they would have achieved their goal by now which is a bit frustrating because I'm rooting for them but it's always inspiring to see them have such determination.
I think I notice a date implying the series is taking place in the year 2016 or 2017 where they are now. It would make sense that it's in the future especially if the early chapters took place in around the time the manga began. That way they can pretend this is how things turn out and it would explain why the fictional mangas were theoretically beating One Piece, Naruto, Toriko and other titles that are popular right now.
I also wonder how close to the actual process of ranking series and determining which series continue or end this manga is depicting because say if it's accurate and was accurate back in the 90s it would explain why Toriyama kept going with Dragon Ball despite having points when he could have ended it. If the manga was still popular the editorial staff wouldn't allow the author to quit which makes the situation with Tanto and later Crow very unique instances but I wonder if there were some like that.
It's a shame Detective Trap didn't last long. I would have liked to see them do more with it. PCP is a cool concept though and I'm getting excited to see what's going on with Riversi as well. The actual mangaka doing this series come up with a lot of cool ideas for manga within it. That makes the whole story all the more impressive.
Having such real world concerns preventing them from turning PCP into an anime makes sense but it's still pretty frustrating. I mean I honestly kept expecting that out of the blue they'd be told PCP was going to become an anime because they got at least 1 offer but Takagi and Moritaka never knew about it. I suppose it might have ended that way if the series ended earlier but if it had we may never have seen what came after so I guess it's a good thing it didn't happen and probably never will. They also might have gotten an anime if they stuck with Tanto for a long time but I suppose at the time they were more concerned with beating Eiji.
The rivalry in this series gets a bit excessive IMO but that's shounen for you and seeing characters battle it out is pretty thrilling at least most of the time.
There have been a lot of interesting twists along the way. It's an increasingly impressive story.
So now that I'm all caught up I can't wait to see where it goes next.
Nice impressions, and I agree with you. The main things I enjoy about Bakuman is how it basically manages to ooze shonen from it in about every aspect of the story, while at the same time being about shonen. It could very well just slide into slice of life territory, but the pace and characters never let up making it such fun to read. It's currently my favorite still running manga by far. I always figured a manga like this couldn't last so long, but it's truly unpredictable in how the plot develops and because it's so engaging I almost never get bored reading.
I assume the last manga that Eiji overtook to "become" #1 near Crow's end was probably One Piece. Naruto would have been long over by then, and Bleach never ranks that high, so it's pretty safe to assume he was probably overtaking a winding down One Piece.
As for the current events, Ashirogi managed to outrank Eiji for the first time ever. It's not even a tie, as Eiji got more promotion and even a cover spread for it and still managed to lose (albeit slightly) to them, so I can see his frustration as he's never actually lost to them before. But in a business sense, they can't turn down Reversi seeing as it actually broke the record for a one shot and is by one of their star authors, so the solution they came to was actually pretty clever.
Though as someone who reads a few monthly mangas.... it can be agonizing to wait for new chapters. AND it will take a LOT longer for an anime to be made.
Personally I think that PCP should have been taken to Heishi and become a monthly series since Reversi would clearly become more popular than it if it ran on a weekly basis. Then again, that would probably cause a huge fan back-lash to people who are fans of PCP, even if it was being replaced in WSJ by a series by the very same author and artist. Well, at least now there is a certified way for Ashirogi to be able to do 2 series at once, since I still stand by my belief that they would have eventually cracked under the pressure of having to do 2 weekly series at once. This alternative at least ensures that they can do both series without tiring out and still have plenty of time to come up with interesting ideas for both, rather than having one (or even both) series suffer due to a lack of time for story planning or for drawing out manuscripts.
Yeah I think PCP probably should become the once a month series but the fan back-lash would be a concern.
It's going to take years to get an anime for Reversi which is disappointing but at least years go by pretty quick for Bakuman.
I wonder if Eiji will refuse to make a weekly series so he can compete in the same magazine as Ashirogi which wont make the magazine happy because they want a new hit from Eiji as soon as possible.
I'm really happy they beat Eiji. It really could have gone either way but I consider this the better outcome and makes the story more interesting. It's nice to see a win for Ashirogi every once in a while.
I was so moved when they got #1 with PCP and Moritaka took the chart to his uncle's grave and you just can't help but root for these guys after all they've been through.
Well, looks like what everyone was hoping for will happen! PCP will be moved and Reversi will be in Jump!
There might be some backlash, but it's probably better for the series since they did state at one time they wanted to move it into Middle School, and a change in format would most likely distinguish it further in a new magazine. Reversi is good for both Ashirogi and the magazine, as well as for Eiji as well, so it's good to see it get that focus. It will also take far less time for it to get an anime, so that's really good for them, too.
Now that the stage has been set, I'm eager for the Zombie Gun Vs. Reversi are to properly begin.
I had a feeling that this might happen. If this were to happen in real-life I would fully expect some level of fan back-lash among PCP fans for being moved to a new magazine (forcing them to subscribe to that and pay more money, or choose between it and WSJ), but I'm curious as to whether the author of this manga would address such an issue (which could still be minor in the grand scheme of things) at all. I'm guessing that it'll just be ignored, as I think people would get over it eventually.
I do think its good that Reversi will get published in WSJ, though, since it'll once again give Ashirogi the chance to directly compete with Eiji. They managed to beat him with their one-shot, but we still have no idea if they can sustain a higher ranking than him, or even keep on even grounds with him for the long-haul with a long-running weekly series. It'll be interesting to see if they can pull it off or not.
One thing that I really liked about this chapter is that it actually showed you a lot about Yujiro's character. I think that he does genuinely consider Hattori as a friend and did actually take his personal feelings into consideration to help set up this change. Of course, its obvious that he had his own personal gains from this (or rather, he was doing it for Eiji's sake to make him more motivated), which is a given, but I do also think that he genuinely also wanted Hattori to get to be the editor for Reversi after all of the hard work that he and Ashirogi put in together to make their ultimate manga to date.
Now, I really do hope that no BS unlucky incident causes this manga to fall-through or lose popularity. This one should finally get an anime, as Ashirogi REALLY deserves at least that much after all of the effort they've put in to try and get an anime series. It may mean that the series (Bakuman, itself) would end if they were successful with Reversi, but even then some other problem could come up to prolong it, like them getting an anime but Azuki not being able to get a role in it, or something to that degree. Then again, the series has been running for a long time and even if it did end with Reversi getting an anime, at least it would be ending on a high note. That's not to say that the series has even started to feel dragged out yet, and I could see it going on for a much longer time than this, but even then I wouldn't mind it ending sooner if it meant that it would end without having dipped in quality, as opposed to taking the chance of being dragged out for too long.
Ooooooh man, this is great!
Moving a popular series to a new magazine is a good tactic though realistically the backlash would be problematic... but hey this is fiction and it's nice to see things fall into place every now and then.
I'm pumped to see how this pans out.
Well this week is basically just a follow-up to last week's twist. Good to see more interaction between Moritaka and his grand father though.
Yeah, it was a slow burn this week, but I think that's fine enough since we know what it's leading to. I'm glad they managed to get the entire set up out of the way, now it's time to go nuts!
This episode was more about characterization than story progression, but I like these little break-chapters that have the main character interacting with each other and their friends and family. To me its a much needed refresher from the usual brisk-pacing of this manga, and it adds a bit more of a realistic and believable sort of feel to the characters and story that you don't usually get from the more over-dramatized chapters in the main story. Mashiro reading his Uncle's diary was a pretty touching scene, and I like how it really reminded him of why he's so motivated to be come a first-rate mangaka. Lets hope that he and Takagi manage to succeed in overtaking Eiji with their new series. For some reason I get the feeling that the both of them will be pretty neck-and-neck with their new series in terms of popularity.
DAMN! The work they had to do in this chapter was downright brutal. It just goes to prove my point that they would never have been able to handle 2 long-running weekly serializations like Eiji can without losing an insane amount of sleep and jeopardizing their health. It was pretty cool to see that Ashirogi's assistants were so motivated to help them, and it was nice to see Ogawa put his experience to use and get them to finish up the manuscripts for both PCP and Reversi without going past the deadline.
Now things should be a bit smoother for them since this experience should have made Mashiro even faster at drawing than before (without sacrificing any quality, I would assume). Plus, now that PCP is going to be a monthly series, it should be considerably more manageable for them to draw 2 series at once.
Yeah, that was crazy, they were basically doing THREE series at once there. But it was definitely good to see some spotlight on the assistants and Mashiro's drawing quality improving, these are the types of chapters I like. Hopefully they'll be getting the schedule all sorted up, they'll need ever spare second to take on Eiji weekly.
Ashirogi was almost on a winning-streak there, but Eiji proves his experience and skill as a mangaka is still unmatched since he was able to quickly turn the tables on them once again.
That said, I disagree with the notion that having only 1 main antagonist throughout the entire run of a manga should be viewed as a weakness. It all depends on how good the characterization is. If its handled by talented writing, you can keep a story with only 1 antagonist interesting for hundreds of chapters, though it does take a lot of talent. On the contrary, I find switching in and out of antagonists from one to another to be a cheap tactic that most modern shonen mangaka use because they lack the skill or talent to keep an interesting villain around, and when results indicate that people are getting tired of one villain, they simply switch out for a new one. That isn't always the case of course, as people like Eichiro Oda and Yoshihiro Togashi switch between villains as well, yet most of their villains are quite effective and memorable and could be interesting for a longer period of time, but they just switch to something new for both story reasons and because they feel like experimenting with a new type of villain. Even then, at least they have some memorable villains, rather than the ones that get tossed aside and never mentioned again, and ones that the readers will forget as soon as they've been written out of the manga.
In Eiji's case, I assume that he is skilled enough to write good and memorable villains for battle manga, even if he eventually has to switch to a new one after every arc or so. That said, if Ashirogi capitalizes on it, they can make the timeless rivalry between their main protagonist and antagonist seem like something much more epic than the typical hero and villain relationship that can easily be contained within a single story arc, and instead make it seem like its so big that it needs the entirety of the manga to show just how much these characters bring to the table. I guess that what I'm trying to say is that in the long-run, it may work to their advantage, as I could easily see their villain becoming as notoriously memorable to Japanese audiences as classic DBZ or Fist of the North Star villains, which in Japan are still popular to this day and are quoted by many fans, from what I've come to understand.
It looks like Reversi will need a shake up sooner than later. Mashiro is right, their weakness is that little seed of predictability in the two main characters, so they definitely have to do something to shake it up.
Great chapter, and I like where this arc is going.
So, it seems that the general idea of this chapter was that Saiko and Shujin basically realized that quality is way more important than quality. In that regard, the story can still be great and memorable without having to be hundreds of chapters long like hugely popular and successful shonen manga among the likes of series like Dragon Ball and One Piece. I thought it was a pretty obvious conclusion to anyone who values good writing and story-telling over just being popular, but its great to see that they realize this, all the same.
Also, is it just me or was the author also sort of cleverly giving his own form of self-commentary on the process of having written Death Note? I mean, think about it: Reversi is basically the same general concept of dual protagonists (the battle between Schwarz and Weiss is obviously an homage to the battle between Light and L). Also, I think that this sort of reflects when a certain something happened in the story of Death Note, which I won't spoil (even though everyone who reads this thread would probably already know it, anyways), and the author swapped out one protagonist for another in order to prolong the story, though as a result sacrificed a good deal of quality in the process, as well (and I say this as someone who still likes the 2nd arc for what it is). So, I think what Ashirogi is doing here is keeping the story consistent above all else, even at the cost of being short, rather than dragging it out longer than it needs to go on just so that they can have something as trivial as a longer anime.
Seeing how they are going for a masterpiece rather than something that's merely just popular, I am now REALLY excited to see how they end up handling this series from this point on, especially since it looks like Shujin already has a good deal of it planned out.
So, just to commentate on the last few chapters since nobody else has for the past few weeks, it looks like Reversi and Zombie Gun are pretty neck and neck in terms of popularity, but not in the way that you would expect. While 1 of the 2 series will prevail greatly on one front, the other will surpass it on the other front. That is to say, when Reversi was ranked as the most popular currently running manga in Jump, Zombie Gun outdid it by selling way more copies with its first volume. In the most recent chapter (which was mostly filler, but at least the end of it was relevant to the story), Zombie Gun overtook Reversi in the rankings, but Reversi ended up outselling its 2nd volume, so really in that respect while one overtakes the other on one front or the other, they are both pretty much neck and neck in their battle for popularity since they each at least hold the top spot on one category.
Now, as for one development that I didn't really like, it appears that the SJ editor-in-chief has to make a choice and decide whether to allow for Zombie Gun to have an anime adaptation or Reversi. What I hate about this development is how it makes it seem like its impossible for them both to get adapted. I'm not sure how anime adaptations work for SJ in real life, but aren't they profiting off of them? Wouldn't it make more sense to have them both get anime if they are both really popular? And even if for some reason they can't, why can't one just get adapted at a later date instead of only having 1 get an anime and the other never having a hope of it. At least that's the way that the manga made this situation out to seem like, and to me it feels like a really cheap way to potentially snub Ashirogi out of their well-deserved chance at an anime, once more, in order to prolong the run of this manga. I wouldn't mind them getting snubbed again if it was for a more convincing reason, and to be fair they haven't lost hope for an anime just yet, but it just seems so obvious that Zombie Gun will prevail in this situation since it would make for a longer lasting, more marketable, and probably more financially successful anime adaptation than Reversi, so I can't help but feel that Ashirogi is really getting cheated out of what they rightfully deserve, here.
It seems to early for either of them, really. But the logical choice would be Zombie Gun simply because of the author, which is probably what they'll play off of. But Reversi would be smarter since it will probably end a lot sooner than Zombie Gun will making for an easier adaption.
Oh yeah, and I hope they don't pull a "bad anime adaption ruins popularity" or something like that. It would feel too much like padding.
So it looks like Ashirogi was all geared up for an anime and then Eiji comes in to compete with them for the sake of popularity. For a second there I thought that the manga might actually go the route of finally getting Ashirogi an anime, but in this instance I think its obvious that Eiji will take that chance from them given his popularity and their shitty luck.
Yeah, I liked the chapter and all but I wasn't big on the ending. Eiji seems WAY too desperate here.
So, it looks like against all odds, Ashirogi secured themselves the anime deal after all. This is definitely good news, but I can't help but feel that something will still go wrong, and I'm betting on there somehow being some circumstances in which they can't get Azuki to voice the role of the heroine in the anime adaptation, or something along those lines.
Well, it looks like the arc from chapter 1 might be coming to an end soon. Ashirogi finally gets their anime deal and I'm 100% certain (barring a really cheap twist anyway) that Azuki will voice the heroine leading to them to get married. But... I'm not all that certain that it will mean the end of the story. There's is definitely more that could happen outside of this plot, so I wouldn't mind if it continued on.
Well, it may very well go on until they become recognized as the best mangaka in Japan, which I think was Takagi's goal from the start, and that would make sense to keep going then since marrying Azuki was obviously only Mashiro's goal. I do think it would be better for the story to end after they truly manage to surpass Eiji, though, and while I think that this piece will finally help Mashiro achieve his personal dream, I don't think that it'll be quite enough to beat Eiji in the long run.
Wow, they're really tearing into otakus. Going on about how someone's "career is finished" because they have a boyfriend and such. How these types of fans got so warped and have so much power in the industry is unbelievable, and even in Bakuman they don't seem to be much different.
Yeah, I really love how negatively they are portraying otaku culture. No, I mean seriously, I FUCKING hate people like that. I have known similar people who are extreme fans of other stuff besides anime but who generally act the same way. I decided that I want nothing to do with people like that. I really like how Bakuman tackles this issue and how some extreme fans can decide to like or dislike things for the stupidest of reasons, like a voice actress they idolize turning out to have a boyfriend or any famous person for that matter actually having a life of their own.
It also tears into how jumpy the media gets over the slightest hint of a rumor involving celebrities. You know, since no matter what country you're in, people are more interested in reading about that then hearing stuff that's actually important and could affect their daily lives.
So, if what I'm saying doesn't make it clear, I really like this chapter and thought that it handled the issues it was referring to really well. I can't wait to see how the rest of this arc plays out.
I'm glad that they're hammering the sick fan culture they have. And who better to really rip into it than Fukuda? ;D
Something tells me that the next chapter's really going to be harsh, and deservedly so. There's something seriously wrong with that otaku culture and the whole "purity" thing that seems so prevalent.
Fukuda just went up 100 points in my book. I really hope he tears into the otaku-masses on the radio.
So, Azuki herself just declared to the public that her relationship with Mashiro is indeed fact, and not just a rumor. In a normal story everything would probably be alright after this, but considering how realistically this manga likes to portray fans overreacting to the most minor of things, I think its safe to say that shit's about to hit the fan big time in the next chapter, for better or worse.
Only in the anime world can being in love with someone be considered a bad thing. See, this is why I'm so opposed to that type of culture that's being allowed to grow over there. Only someone truly sick can actually believe that being in love is a bad thing.
That was a pretty good chapter and easily the best one focused on Azuki. She was needlessly harassed a lot over this, and I'm glad to see here and Mashiro take a stand against this sick behavior towards their relationship. Really, all this over the fact that she has a boyfriend? I'm certain this didn't used to be an issue in Japan even six/seven years ago.
Yeah, this chapter was nice, but now I just really want to see how things turn out for Ashirogi after they manage to get an anime. I mean, by that point, I don't know how much further they can take this story since Mashiro will have achieved his main goal. All that's left after that is for them to officially beat Eiji with their own series.
So with the new chapter, the voice actress plotline comes to a close.
Haha, she totally cleaned up in the polls and took in nearly half of the votes! Awesome! Now I'm really curious to see the fallout of this and to hopefully see Ashirogi's next challenge. Though I think we must be nearing the end, as I'm not really sure what else will happen. It's pretty clear that they're getting an anime and she's going to be the lead, so what's next? I'm wagering on something to beat Eiji decisively.
This was a really satisfying chapter. After 180 chapters of the 2 of them working towards this goal, its really satisfying to see them finally achieve it. I find it interesting that even though Mashiro was the main character, this final step wasn't really for him to step up and achieve something, but for Miho instead (since he and Takagi had already fulfilled their part of the goal by creating a series popular enough to get an anime adaptation). Its really refreshing to see things finally got really good for them on all fronts for once, after the shit-load of work that they've been doing over the course of nearly a decade (going by the manga's timeline, that is).
Honestly, Bakuman seems pretty close to over, which might not be a bad thing, since unlike Death Note it will have a chance to end without having lost any of its steam over its long run. The only thing that's really left for them to do is to surpass Eiji in popularity, but really haven't they already technically done that with Reversi? I mean, they did finally directly beat him out by getting the anime adaptation when the decision came between that and Zombie Gun. At any rate, I wouldn't mind seeing some more competitive rivalry between Ashirogi and Eiji, but I really do believe that there isn't much left to go in the story. I could see the manga wrapping up for good in another couple of short arcs (possibly 20-30 more chapters in all).
"The Editorial department says they want you to keep your story running for as long as possible even if it becomes terrible."
And suddenly I have a lot more insight into the problem that plagues most shonen manga: They don't know when to end. Or, rather, I think many of their authors would be glad to end a series of their's when its in its prime, but if its popular the higher-ups want to make sure they can milk it out for as much money as its worth, and thus we get shonen series that drag on for a long time, even past when their authors intended for them to originally end. Somehow I have a feeling that this notion was taken to the extreme with One Piece, given how Oda claims that he had originally only intended for the story to last for 5 years.
Some how I had a feeling that keeping the series alive would be the next trial of a series in Shonen Jump. This kind of reminds me of the stories involving Akira Toriyama and how Dragon Ball kept on going and going and going.
There seems to be a lot of commentary on Jump in the newest chapter. Like in how long should the story be Vs. commerce of the product. I'm glad to see they came to an understanding that sometimes it's better that way. Not everything needs to last hundreds of chapters and run for well over a decade if it's popular. Sometimes that can hurt more than hinder.
I... think we're coming to the end here. It seems like next chapter might be the last chapter. While that wouldn't bother me, I do hope they close up a few other issues before then like seeing Nanamine finally learn his lesson, Nakai finally grow up, and maybe even see what happened to that rock star wannabe from way back. Other than that, I wouldn't really have anything to complain about it ending here except that I would no longer have a manga to look forward to every week. ;)
I think we'll get a few more chapters to give some of the side characters a fair bit of closure to some of their unresolved development, but aside from that, I do clearly see that this series is close to ending. Personally I'm fine with that. Now seems like a perfect spot to end the series since Mashiro and Takagi have more or less finally achieved their main goals as mangaka. Keeping the series running any longer than this would just seem like it doesn't have much purpose, since I think that the pair have learned all of the main lessons that apply to being a mangaka, and have pretty much reached their peak in terms of story-telling and artistic skill. Maybe we'll get an epilogue chapter at some point down the line, since a lot of slice of life/coming of age sort of manga get something like that, but other than that I can very much see this series closing out for good in another 3-4 chapters.
Its true that it'll be the end of a great series and we won't have it to look forward to each week anymore, but in a way this also makes me excited if it really is ending. I want to see what story Tsugumi Ohba and Takeshi Obata tackle next. These guys made Death Note and now Bakuman, and in my book both are great and memorable series, so this pair is definitely very talented. Personally I would love to see them actually explore one of the many great story ideas that they brought up in this series as their next major work whenever they decide to make it. Bakuman is full of rich potential in terms of the great story pitches the characters make in it, and it makes me wish we even had just a few of the clearly great series that are being written in the fictional world of Bakuman. I'd love to see an actual version of something like Money and Intelligence, Detective Trap, Perfect Crime Party, or Reversi, or something based on the likeness of those series to be able to physically read on a day to day basis.
At any rate, I say this with the assumption that the series IS about to end. If it doesn't I'll be kind of perplexed given how much closure we've been getting in the most recent chapters.
The common theory is that there is 6 chapters left (due to what Takagi said a few chapters ago about 8 chapters being left of Reversi) and if true, that would be a decent amount to end it off.
I think the ideal way of ending it would be having the pair going to see Hattori with a new idea.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 15, 2012, 05:12:34 PM
The common theory is that there is 6 chapters left
Manga 'Bakuman' To End Next Week (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=428753)
I wonder what series they'll replace it with in Alpha?
:(
Oh well, it had a good run.
I just hope that the last chapter is longer than usual to give the series a proper sense of closure rather than just an abrupt one.
Personally I think its great that its ending on a high note rather than having been dragged through the mud. It was a great manga and I'm really excited to see what the author of this series comes up with next.
That was a good ending. Its a shame we didn't get to see any other characters besides Mashiro and Azuki, but at the same time being that getting married was their main goal, it makes sense to end the series with just that since that was really the only main thing left to be resolved by the end.
At the end of the chapter it indicated that both Ohba and Obata will still be working together for whatever piece they come up with next, which I'm personally glad about because I want to see what awesome ideas and stories that this pair can come up with next. As far as I'm concerned they are 2 for 2 in terms of making great series (Death Note being the 1st, and this series obviously being the 2nd). Its clear that Death Note wasn't just a fluke and these guys really do have amazing talent as mangaka, so I really hope it doesn't take them too long to come up with another great weekly series for me any many others to follow and enjoy.
Just for the record, now that its completely done, I do honestly still find Death Note to be my favorite of their 2 main works, but Bakuman is high on quality and is easily a great series worthy of being written by the same author and drawn by the same artist. :thumbup:
That was a great ending, but I would have liked Nanamine to finally learn his lesson, or at least see his reaction to Reversi's ending beyond that weird panel. That said, it's easily one of my favorite manga, and the ending cemented it as much.
Unfortunately, now that the best manga in Jump has ended, there's little to look forward to every week from it.
Well, at least until Ohba comes up with his next manga, whatever it turns out to be.
I'll definitely be waiting for that one.
After Bakuman they have to be overflowing with ideas.
I'd still love to see them make a full series out of Money and Intelligence, except to tweak it to incorporate in ideas from some of the other series that they came up with in Bakuman as well.
Also, I believe I brought this up before, but do you think that a lot of what was in Bakuman may have also cleverly been the author's personal commentary and take on the state of shonen manga in general? I always felt that there were points in the series where the authors were using this manga to criticize certain aspects of how manga were being made or how editors could at times negatively influence the quality of a manga against the wishes of the author.
In regards to this last arc of the manga, I felt that Reversi's ending may have had something to do with Death Note. The whole set-up of 2 great minds battling each other was ripped straight out of Death Note and was an obvious homage to that earlier work of theirs, but what really got my attention was how it ended after a short run with the resolution of the conflict between the 2 main characters, despite Ashirogi having to really go against the editorial department to have the right to end their series when they wanted to and the way that they wanted to do it. I felt that maybe Death Note may have originally been planned to end with Light and L taking each other out or something to that effect, but since it was at the height of its popularity in Jump towards the end of the L arc, it could be possible that Ohba and Obata were forced to continue the series (or rather, pressured into it) by the higher-ups and Jump due to its popularity. The line where the Editor-in-Chief says that Ashirogi must keep the story going even if it turns terrible kind of cemented that whole idea into my head, but its just a little theory on my part with no factual evidence to back it up. I was just wondering if I was the only one who interpreted that whole Reversi ending ordeal in that way.
I had a feeling it was a meant as a reflection on the state of Japan's entertainment industry in general. Pretty much every problem outside of their own was usually due to an issue that had to do with how things are run. Basically, when everyone works together, things go great, and when they don't... we get things like soulless musicians trying to buy their way as an artist, spoiled kids trying to corrupt an industry, fans losing their minds of things that aren't their business, and the difference between living your dream (Detective Trap, PCP, and Reversi), and working your dream (basically everything they did with Miura). They covered a lot in under 200 chapters, and I'm glad they were able to.
Reversi was definitely symbolic of Death Note. I also think what they were trying to say was that they wanted to end it with part 1 (though I doubt it would have ended with Light getting away) and that some times a story just can't be dragged on.
I actually hope that Jump understands that and just lets them have their stories by as long or as short as needed from now on.
To be honest, I'm among the small crowd that didn't hate the 2nd arc of Death Note, and despite it clearly being inferior to the first arc it felt like the author was still putting in a lot of genuine effort into making it as good as possible, even though it was downright impossible to even come close to touching the L arc in quality and pacing. That said, I felt that the series definitely would have benefited if it had ended at the L arc with a different ending than the one we got for it, and that's definitely the vibe I got from this last arc of Bakuman in regards to them ending Reversi.
Yeah, when they were talking about ways to extend Reversi, they just knew whatever they did would not be as good as what came before so it would be best to end it. While Death Note didn't really suffer for it, it also didn't really need to be dragged on but obviously they were told they needed to.
In the long run, it's best to just let the piece by what it's naturally meant to be. I bet people would be talking about Reversi for years, and it only ran 49 chapters. Yet, for instance, Cowboy Bebop was 26 episodes and yet people still enjoy it today. There was a lot of interesting stuff like that in Bakuman, and I'm really glad they were able to explore it.
I also think it helped them both improve as artist and writer having to do all those different genres and art styles, so their next piece could really be anything. ;D
I'm still in that camp of people that think that Death Note ran for as long as it did was just so it could reach 108 chapters due to the connotations that number has in Japan and Buddhism. In New Years in Japan, they ring a bell 108 times to represent the number of temptations one must resist to reach nirvana. Which is fitting for a story like Death Note and a character like Light and his goals of creating a utopia.
That's true, I believe that they could tackle any genre, but to be honest I think they are well-suited to making darker and more fast-paced manga like Death Note. I found Bakuman to be a more light-hearted series and in contrast took its time in terms of pacing, which it could do since it was a slice of life series. After reading Bakuman and seeing the great ideas they presented in it for darker series with more serious narratives, I'm pretty pumped to see them tackle something along the lines of Death Note's darker tone. It'd be good for them to mix up the genres that they tackle, but I knowing how talented they are in writing darker shonen manga, that's kind of what I want to see from them again. That said, I'll read whatever manga they write next no matter what genre it is.
Spoiler Alert....for like....the 2 people on this board who might not know it, if it even IS that number....
Quote from: Daxdiv on April 19, 2012, 07:40:44 PM
I'm still in that camp of people that think that Death Note ran for as long as it did was just so it could reach 108 chapters due to the connotations that number has in Japan and Buddhism. In New Years in Japan, they ring a bell 108 times to represent the number of temptations one must resist to reach nirvana. Which is fitting for a story like Death Note and a character like Light and his goals of creating a utopia.
Well, maybe that could be true, but in that case Light didn't quite reach that nirvana since he died in chapter 107. Sucks for him. :>
I'd like to see them make a straightforward shonen like Reversi (but not the same thing, obviously). If only because I'd love a good battle manga on par with Yu Yu Hakusho pre-final arc or Rurouni Kenshin. Lord knows we need something less formulaic than the current stuff in Jump.
Well, if Bakuman is any indication of the real author and artist behind it and Death Note, they may not be doing mainstream shonen since they probably aren't well suited to it. Their talents seem to lie more in telling stories like Death Note or stories about writing stories like Death Note and mainstream shonen manga and other genres as well. Actaully writing a mainstream shonen manga would be a totally different ordeal, but it'd certainly be interesting to see if they could really pull it off.
Or, If they really want to give the genre a good kick in the pants that it needs, they could make the obligatory "deconstruction" series of the genre. Sort of like the "Watchmen" of shonen manga, if you will. That's something that I feel they are talented enough to pull off, and it would be a great blow to every uninspired and cliche series that plagues the genre today.
One thing that confirmed to me that they could try anything was their extensive love of manga throughout Bakuman and how they treat the story potential it has. Not just name-dropping Phoenix, Ashita No Joe, and Slam Dunk, but how different they are and how important they all were.
They tried to expand a lot too. They tried romance with the Azuki/Mashiro thing and Aoki Ko's stuff, they tried hot-blooded shonen with Fukuda, gag manga with Hiramaru, mainstream with Eiji and Iwase, specialization with Takahama, and dark material with Nanamine. Not to mention sci-fi, mystery, and fantasy with Ashirogi Muto. They showed many different viewpoints and styles, and in the end I think it will help them in the future.
So I think at this point they could do anything.
I was thinking that its possible that we might get an epilogue chapter of sorts when the actual final volume releases, sort of like an omake feature for those who actually buy it. I believe they did that for Death Note when they re-released a special edition version of the final volume, or something to that effect (where we got an epilogue chapter with Near and got to learn of his and Mello's past experience "meeting" with L).
Perhaps the epilogue chapter might just be some wrap-up material for the other side-characters, or at least Nanamine or Shizuka, neither of whom really had proper closure to their character arcs, IMO.
Yeah, an epilogue chapter on the other authors would be nice. Their last appearances in the previous chapter was kind of disappointing.
Did you know they're making a live-action Bakuman movie? (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2015/04/12-1/bakuman-movie-poster-and-date-revealed) Cause that's a thing. Honestly, it's one of the easier anime/manga series to make a good live-action movie out of, and the casting looks pretty spot-on. Might be a good 'un.
As long as they don't pull what the anime staff did and make it a romance with some manga stuff in the background.
I could totally see it working. I'm definitely interested.