Dragon Ball (All Series)

[LumRanmaYasha]

But like Ensatsu-ken I'm also not the biggest fan of the Dragon Ball Z anime, I think it was better in manga form. The original series I can go with either. 

I agree that Dragonball Z is better in manga form as well. Dragonball Z isn't something I care to re-watch nowadays, but I still like the story enough to sit through it sometimes, although I typically just watch Kai for all non-Buu saga arcs or the filler episodes from the Z anime I actually enjoy.

[gunswordfist]

How can anyone not like Arlia?

[Spark Of Spirit]

How can anyone not like Arlia?

The coloring maybe? 

I just found it to be a total waste of time. It had more impact in the manga when the first time we see Nappa and Vegeta's strength is in the initial encounter on earth.

[Dr. Insomniac]

In hindsight, the Arlia episode makes Vegeta's eventual redemption seem extremely questionable.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

In hindsight, the Arlia episode makes Vegeta's eventual redemption seem extremely questionable.

To be fair, it was already heavily implied in the manga that Vegeta was responsible for the deaths of countless innocent lives. Don't forget that he was one of Frieza's men, and his entire job was basically to wipe out entire planets to clear them for Frieza, or at the very least conquer them in his name. Hell, he was going to wipe out Earth anyways after he and Nappa had found all of the Dragon Balls. Really speaking, Toriyama just tends to ignore the moral implications of what his characters do, and doesn't really explore what Vegeta would truly have to atone for to get true redemption. Its just that circumstances make him side with Goku and the others, and after a while they just treat him like he's a friend, completely forgetting that he was essentially a cold-blooded murderer leading up to that point.

Its also the same as how Goku somehow gets married to Chichi and has 2 sons off-screen, yet the dude is clearly incapable of even conceiving any romantic feelings for anyone. In this regard, I once recall Toriyama stating in an interview the he admits to having no idea how to right romance, so he just ignore that aspect and made 2 time-skips to introduce each of Goku's sons.

To be fair, the result of Toriyama ignoring the elements of the story that he clearly knows he'd be no good at writing probably lead to the best possible results. He doesn't try to take the series in a deeper direction, and just lets it be light-hearted and entertaining most of the way through. The most depth that you ever really get in the entire series is the mentor-student relationship between Piccolo and Gohan, which admittedly is handled really well in this series. Other than that, Toriyama just skips all of these other moral issues and emotional stuff that other writers would try to include, and while I'm not saying that it makes him a great writer for doing that, it does make his series considerably more enjoyable when viewed for what it is. The thing is, many writers that also try to tackle those elements happen to suck at it too, and hence they drag their stories WAY down for it.

So, basically, in short: The latter parts of Dragon Ball can be really fucked up if you think about it too much. For me, I just enjoy the series for what it is. However when you see a lot of the more serious critics of Dragon Ball, they do bring up these issues (their favorite one to bring up is how terrible of a father Goku is), and while I think that they are taking things entirely too seriously, they aren't technically wrong about their implications, either.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Vegeta not going Super Saiyan probably would have helped as it seemed he was going down that road but nope the ego is back and we've learned nothing.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

To be fair, by the end of the series he had completely stopped caring about trying to surpass Goku, and even had a big moment at the end while Goku was fighting Kid Buu, in which he smiled and admitted that he had a lot of admiration and respect for Goku, and finally "understood" who Goku was, and why he could never really surpass him.

He also showed that he came to really care about his family, even knocking out Trunks and telling Piccolo to take him away from the battlefield so that he wouldn't get caught in the destruction that would occur when Vegeta sacrificed his life to stall Buu.

When you think about it, both he and Piccolo (characters that started out as complete villains) go through more development than any single other character in the entire series.

[Spark Of Spirit]

You're right, I just don't like a lot of things in the Cell arc. The best parts by far were Future Trunks and Android 16.

Though you're right, there was more character development in the original series with characters like Krillin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and the gang all changing from their original selves. It wasn't huge or anything, but it was noticeable.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, apparently Birusu can kick people's asses with chopsticks. My interest in this movie has now peaked up a few more notches.

[gunswordfist]

To be fair, by the end of the series he had completely stopped caring about trying to surpass Goku, and even had a big moment at the end while Goku was fighting Kid Buu, in which he smiled and admitted that he had a lot of admiration and respect for Goku, and finally "understood" who Goku was, and why he could never really surpass him.

He also showed that he came to really care about his family, even knocking out Trunks and telling Piccolo to take him away from the battlefield so that he wouldn't get caught in the destruction that would occur when Vegeta sacrificed his life to stall Buu.

When you think about it, both he and Piccolo (characters that started out as complete villains) go through more development than any single other character in the entire series.

Interesting. I may have to actually watch the end of the Buu saga and all I missed. My favorite conversation between Vegeta and Goku is at the end of Fusion Reborn

[Kiddington]

So, apparently Birusu can kick people's asses with chopsticks. My interest in this movie has now peaked up a few more notches.

Well there's a pleasant surprise; Tien's there, and even takes part.

Always hated how underused the original Z Fighters were as the series went on. This is still clearly Goku's fight, but it'd be nice if the others actually did something for a change.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Whatever happens, I am PRAYING that this movie doesn't end with Goku turning into a Super Saiyan God and then defeating Birusu in one single attack. Its like how in every DBZ movie, Goku will power-up in some way at the end and then you're pumped to see him take on the ultimate bad guy for an awesome fight....and then he kills him instantly. The biggest tease was in Fusion Reborn, in which we only get to see the awesomeness of Gogeta at the end of the movie....for like 5 seconds, and then the bad guy is dead. I'll be so pissed if Battle of Gods pulls that crap as well.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

And here is yet another clip of the movie. This time we get a look at the first fight of the movie, which is basically just Birusu making quick work of SSJ3 Goku.

[LumRanmaYasha]

Whatever happens, I am PRAYING that this movie doesn't end with Goku turning into a Super Saiyan God and then defeating Birusu in one single attack. Its like how in every DBZ movie, Goku will power-up in some way at the end and then you're pumped to see him take on the ultimate bad guy for an awesome fight....and then he kills him instantly. The biggest tease was in Fusion Reborn, in which we only get to see the awesomeness of Gogeta at the end of the movie....for like 5 seconds, and then the bad guy is dead. I'll be so pissed if Battle of Gods pulls that crap as well.

You shouldn't get your hopes up. This is a Dragonball Z movie we're talking about, after all. Even with Toryiama having written the story, I doubt we are going to see a satisfying battle between Super Saiyin God Goku and Birusu. Hopefully what we do get isn't as lame as Gogeta v. Janemba, at least.

[Kiddington]

And here is yet another clip of the movie. This time we get a look at the first fight of the movie, which is basically just Birusu making quick work of SSJ3 Goku.

I dunno, man. Seems like they went out of their way to make Birusu too strong. He barely even touches Goku at any point of that sequence, and still completely dominates him.

The animation is gorgeous, though; by far the best this series has ever looked. Still can't wait.