Devil May Cry Series

[Foggle]

I kind of agree with Grave. I see a decent and fun game in those videos, but not a fantastic one. It won't be a day one buy for me like Metal Gear Rising, but I'll definitely grab it during a Steam sale (though only if I can skip those awful cutscenes; don't want another Other M on my hands).

[Rynnec]

The graphics in this game are kinda good. I like the art direction for the enviroments, but I think DMC4 looks better overall. I agree with Matt in that the graphics look pretty bland in the real world segments.

At the end of the day, this really should've been it's own seperate franchise with only mild references to DMC. It really would've worked out better in the long run.

[Spark Of Spirit]

The problem is if it will sell or not using Capcom logic.

If it bombs = DMC as a whole is dead
It it sells = Ninja Theory games is all you'll get

There's no situation that will get anyone a DMC5 since this is Capcom.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

True, no one really cares about story in these types of games, but to say that DMC fans don't care for graphics... Not likely. I'd say as soon as DMC3 came out fans began to care for graphics. I mean nobody would say this looks great if the graphics were poor (I know it don't hold up, but at the time that was one of the better looking games on the ps2). Then again I'm also a graphics whore so, yeah, whatever. Now I'm not going to be one of those that try to defend review sites since I don't take them seriously. To me it's just another opinion with numbers tacked on.

I didn't say that DMC fans don't care about graphics, but that its one of the things that they don't care "that much" about. In that regard, DMC3 has dated graphics by today's standards, yet its still widely regarded as the best game in the series among the core fan-base. Why do you think that is? Because people care about the gameplay more than anything else. While DMC4 was good, it made a lot of lazy design choices that made the game a bit less fun to play that its predecessor, and despite having vastly superior graphics, a majority of people that you ask who have played both games will still say that they prefer DMC3 over the 4th installment.

Its the same for people most Ninja Gaiden fans preferring Ninja Gaiden Black over the 2nd game because of the more balanced gameplay.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

According to the GameSpot review of this game, the old DMC games were "tales of adolescent fantasy" and this new DMC game shows "restraint" in that regard and incorporates "maturity" into its story.

....So, yeah, the plethora of over-the-top grotesque imagery in this game clearly shows how much "restraint" this game is capable of, and quite obviously the extremely juvenile dialogue and fowl language that this game has to offer clearly shows that its marketed to a mature audience. You'd have to be a complete idiot not to see that. Its not like THIS is the game that's an adolesent fantasy at all. Now those classic DMC games that knew not to take themselves too seriously and were more about having fun with the ridiculousness of the story were clearly just out of control works of exploitation and pandered to the deluded daydreams of prepubescent boys. Yes, that makes a TON of sense.

No, but seriously, I can't believe it but it actually happened. GameSpot's take on DmC's "brilliant" story is even LESS credible than IGN's, where you at least got the sense that the IGN reviewer really knew deep down that the story was bad but just said that it was good and avoided elaborating on that point because he clearly had to BS some points to justify giving the game a higher score and not making his entire site sound like a bunch of complete idiots for hyping up this game so much and saying that fans were overreacting to it. The GameSpot reviewer seems to downright BELIEVE that DmC tells a genuinely good story. Somebody give that douche-bag a book to read. He clearly needs experience in the basics of good story-telling.

[Rynnec]

Watching the final battle with Mundus, thoughts so far:

- Not too keen on Dante using the death of Mundus' child to taunt him.

- Dante's character development is so forced and by the numbers. so suddenly he cares for mankind after not giving a shit at the start of the game? Bullshit. I can see him starting to care for a select few people, but not for mankind as a whole, way too sappy for my tastes.

- When I first watched the cutscene, it voice-acting made it sound like gay porn. Not gonna lie.

- The characters' animation for this cutscene look so weird. That scene with Vergil destroying the Hell Gate just looked so...bland and unexciting

- Not too sure what to say about Mundus' demon form

- "I AM MUNDUS!" "YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE!" ugh

- Oh my god, I don't know whether or not it's the directors fault, but Dante's VA sounds so bad. There was this scene where Vergil gets sucked in to Mundus' core (or something) and his VA delivers the most unconvincing yell ever. It was quite hilarious.

- So the Mundus fight is just a rehash of the Poison fight from the demo? That's really weak. He looks really easy to beat too. I guess it looks fun for what it is, but I would expect a bit more of a challenge from a Final Boss.

- The music is the most un-final boss-ish sounding thing ever

- (After Mundus is defeated)

Vergil: "We did it"

Dante: "I did it"

Okay, I get this was supposed to be witty banter between brothers, but that exchange felt really weak. Oh well, I guess it beats Vergil making a dick joke.

-There's a scene afterwords where people on twitter start tweeting about the now broken masquerade and get "#demons" to trend. What's worth noting about this scene is seeing an account named after tameem's tweet "WE HAVE AWOKEN". Guess Tam-Tam did manage to insert himself into the game after all. 

Next up is the Vergil fight. Now that I've seen the context, I can safely say that A) The fight felt really forced and phoned in, and B) Dante looks even more unsympathetic for almost killing Vergil since they were getting along so fine up until that point. Seriously, I didn't get a sense of tragedy between these two at all. Such a shame, so much more could've been done between there relationship, their bond and eventual falling out could've been the saving grace of the story.

Bottom line: if you get this game, skip the cutscenes whenever possible because the story is complete and utter shit, try not to view the gameplay as a DMC game and more of a Heavenly Sword sequel, and play your own custom soundtrack.

If the Vergil's Downfall DLC is any good, I might just give this a rental. Vergil's gameplay actually looks pretty fun.

According to the GameSpot review of this game, the old DMC games were "tales of adolescent fantasy" and this new DMC game shows "restraint" in that regard and incorporates "maturity" into its story.

....So, yeah, the plethora of over-the-top grotesque imagery in this game clearly shows how much "restraint" this game is capable of, and quite obviously the extremely juvenile dialogue and fowl language that this game has to offer clearly shows that its marketed to a mature audience. You'd have to be a complete idiot not to see that. Its not like THIS is the game that's an adolesent fantasy at all. Now those classic DMC games that knew not to take themselves too seriously and were more about having fun with the ridiculousness of the story were clearly just out of control works of exploitation and pandered to the deluded daydreams of prepubescent boys. Yes, that makes a TON of sense.

No, but seriously, I can't believe it but it actually happened. GameSpot's take on DmC's "brilliant" story is even LESS credible than IGN's, where you at least got the sense that the IGN reviewer really knew deep down that the story was bad but just said that it was good and avoided elaborating on that point because he clearly had to BS some points to justify giving the game a higher score and not making his entire site sound like a bunch of complete idiots for hyping up this game so much and saying that fans were overreacting to it. The GameSpot reviewer seems to downright BELIEVE that DmC tells a genuinely good story. Somebody give that douche-bag a book to read. He clearly needs experience in the basics of good story-telling.

These gaming journalist wouldn't know a good story if it bit them in the ass. It's if a game's story is dark and edgy enough with political/social commentary as subtle as a sledgehammer, then it's a good story.

[Grave]

I didn't say that DMC fans don't care about graphics, but that its one of the things that they don't care "that much" about. In that regard, DMC3 has dated graphics by today's standards, yet its still widely regarded as the best game in the series among the core fan-base. Why do you think that is? Because people care about the gameplay more than anything else. While DMC4 was good, it made a lot of lazy design choices that made the game a bit less fun to play that its predecessor, and despite having vastly superior graphics, a majority of people that you ask who have played both games will still say that they prefer DMC3 over the 4th installment.

Its the same for people most Ninja Gaiden fans preferring Ninja Gaiden Black over the 2nd game because of the more balanced gameplay.

We play the same game. I even have it listed in my favorites for crying out loud. I don't need people telling me that it's played for the gameplay. That's obvious. All I'm saying is that the graphics played a role (big role) in getting everyone's attention through that cutscene, especially back around that time since MGS3 came out a year before and we've seen perhaps the max potential of the ps2. I don't want to speak for anyone, but I don't think DMC3 would've gotten the attention it got if it had DMC1's graphics. Graphics may not be the first thing they care for, but it's certainly not the least thing either. That's all I'm saying. I didn't bring up gameplay because there was no need to.

Future reference. "Core" fanbase = jibberish talk to me.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

All I'm saying is that the graphics played a role (big role) in getting everyone's attention through that cutscene, especially back around that time since MGS3 came out a year before and we've seen perhaps the max potential of the ps2. I don't want to speak for anyone, but I don't think DMC3 would've gotten the attention it got if it had DMC1's graphics. Graphics may not be the first thing they care for, but it's certainly not the least thing either. That's all I'm saying. I didn't bring up gameplay because there was no need to.

The problem with what you're proposing is that DMC3 sold the least of ANY Devil May Cry game (even worse than 2), so I don't believe that people care quite as much about graphics as you let on. That's not to say that people don't care about graphics at all, but if what you were saying was really the case then DMC3 would have would much better than the 1st and 2nd games for having far superior graphics to them.

The reason DMC3 still got a lot of attention (not relative to the first 2 games, but as an action game in and of itself), is because of the kick-ass trailer it got and the high review scores it garnered as well.

P.S. "Core" fanbase = jibberish talk to me.

How so? Every game series that features deep gameplay usually has core fans who care far more about that than anything else. Its true for Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Street Fighter, and most deep action and fighting games in general.

That said the casual audience usually makes up the bulk of the sales, and I suppose that they probably care more about the graphics than the die-hard fans of the series. Though, once again, that's not to say that the die-hard fans don't care about graphics either, but at least for a DMC game you won't see any of them bitching about the graphics just because it doesn't turn out to be the best looking game around at the time of its release.

[Spark Of Spirit]

DMC1 was huge at the time it came out, but I don't remember any buzz being over the graphics- it was all about the combat.

I dunno, I don't remember many games last gen (or two gens ago now, I guess) where the graphics were huge factors for the sales outside of a handful of Xbox games, Super Smash Bros. Melee, and Resident Evil 4.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I do think that graphics help PUSH the sales of some games if they are already bound to do relatively well. That is to say, if a game garners decent review scores and people were on the fence about it, then some pretty looking graphics might just be that extra little something that sways a few more people to cough up the cash an buy it. But, by itself, it doesn't really do jack shit.

Now, I can say that as far as the look of a game goes, while good graphics and good art design (the latter probably going a longer way with most people, and a combination of the 2 being the most effective) can offer up some limited help in boosting a game's sales, bad graphics or bad art design can, does, and has hurt the sales of many games, regardless of gameplay. One famous example of this is The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. The graphics themselves were extremely good for the time (especially for a Gamecube game). The problem is that a lot of people hated the cartoony art-style and didn't even give the game a chance, and thus sales figures for the game fell well short of Nintendo's expectations (though it did still sell well overall, but it sold less than half of what Ocarina of Time had sold).

[Rynnec]

If anything DMC1 was praised for its atmosphere more than anything. It's the only game in the series that combines gothic horror and over-the-top action the way it does.

I know DMC3 and 4 were praised for their graphics, but they weren't really known for them the way other games are.

[Grave]

The reason DMC3 still got a lot of attention (not relative to the first 2 games, but as an action game in and of itself), is because of the kick-ass trailer it got and the high review scores it garnered as well.

EXACTLY. My wording sucks, but picture that kick-ass trailer with DMC1's graphics. Wouldn't be pretty at all, but then again, like I said, I can't speak for anyone. I just think people cared about graphics more than they were letting on. Probably not to the point of it being the be all, end all, but definitely moreso of getting them interested. Also, I'm talking about back then (when folks were real shady). I know people don't care about graphics now (otherwise, folks wouldn't be talking about retro gaming ). I think the point I'm trying to get at is if DMC3 didn't have those graphics, per se, it would've been something along the lines of Vanquish (or one of those games that's good but forgotten)

How so? Every game series that features deep gameplay usually has core fans who care far more about that than anything else. Its true for Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Street Fighter, and most deep action and fighting games in general.

Much like anime fans, just think of it as an issue I have. 

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

EXACTLY. My wording sucks, but picture that kick-ass trailer with DMC1's graphics. Wouldn't be pretty at all, but then again, like I said, I can't speak for anyone. I just think people cared about graphics more than they were letting on. Also, I'm talking about back then. I know people don't care about graphics now (otherwise, folks wouldn't be talking about retro gaming ). I think the point I'm trying to get at is if DMC3 didn't have those graphics, per se, it would've been something along the lines of Vanquish (or one of those games that's good but forgotten)

I sort of see what you're saying. I can definitely see the game having done a bit worse in sales if it had DMC1's level of graphics. However I do still think that it would have managed to stay afloat based on its trailer (even with lesser graphics) combined with the good review scores it got; though, perhaps even the review scores would be a bit lower if the graphical quality was reduced, but back then it wouldn't hold the game back by as much as it would these days.

That said, if anything about the aesthetic looks of a game has a big influence on a game's popularity, its definitely the art design more than the graphics (and yes, those 2 terms aren't one in the same). Graphics are more about the polygons that a game can push while still maintaining a consistent frame-rate, and art design is obviously the style of art that the game goes for. I already talked about how The Wind Waker had great graphics but its cartoony art design just didn't appeal to most people and thus they never gave it a chance, even if the gameplay was great. If DMC3 had all of a sudden radically changed its art style in the same vein, then I think that would have hurt it as well.

I'm actually pretty convinced that, as good as DmC's graphics are, its art-style is going to REALLY dent its potential sales. It may still sell well, but I doubt it'll sell as much as 2 million copies because you'll have a bunch of people who are so biased against the game just because they find the character designs to be hideous, even if they are rendered in extremely detailed, high-resolution graphics (actually for some that may be part of the problem). I think THAT aspect of games has far more impact than their graphical quality, so long as they can at least support a decent level of graphics.

[Rynnec]

The art-style reception in DmC is kind odd in that people hate the character designs, but love the enviroments. The enviroment design is the one thing people can agree on.

[Grave]

That said, if anything about the aesthetic looks of a game has a big influence on a game's popularity, its definitely the art design more than the graphics (and yes, those 2 terms aren't one in the same). Graphics are more about the polygons that a game can push while still maintaining a consistent frame-rate, and art design is obviously the style of art that the game goes for. I already talked about how The Wind Waker had great graphics but its cartoony art design just didn't appeal to most people and thus they never gave it a chance, even if the gameplay was great. If DMC3 had all of a sudden radically changed its art style in the same vein, then I think that would have hurt it as well.

I'm actually pretty convinced that, as good as DmC's graphics are, its art-style is going to REALLY dent its potential sales. It may still sell well, but I doubt it'll sell as much as 2 million copies because you'll have a bunch of people who are so biased against the game just because they find the character designs to be hideous, even if they are rendered in extremely detailed, high-resolution graphics (actually for some that may be part of the problem). I think THAT aspect of games has far more impact than their graphical quality, so long as they can at least support a decent level of graphics.

That's probably where I was messing up at. I usually put graphics and art design in the same category, but point taken.

We're in agreement with DmC's art design though.

The art-style reception in DmC is kind odd in that people hate the character designs, but love the enviroments. The enviroment design is the one thing people can agree on.

I know, right. As for me the environment's color need to be toned down a little. Not to the point where it looks bland like in their "real" world, but enough to where it don't mess with my eyes. With the environment moving all over the place, and running upside down, my eyes get enough of a workout, but to throw the bright colors in really messes me up.