Yu Yu Hakusho

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, yeah, this series made the top 10 in AR's list of the top 65 cartoons of all time. WOO-HOO! Let's party. This series finally got acknowledged in a list of great cartoons.

Seriously, though, I don't think that I have EVER seen this series acknowledged in ANY collaborative list of this sort before. Even in a list only comprised of anime it gets shunned by critics just because its a shonen series. I never understood why this series gets looked down upon by some anime watchers as generic shonen stuff when it clearly uses cliches but to its advantage and excels with great writing. Yeah, its nothing super-unique until the Chapter Black arc, but even then it was always handled with great writing, yet so many so-called anime critics fail to acknowledge that. In fact, JO is the first anime critic that I have seen that gives this show the props that it deserves, knowing full-well that its totally a shonen-action show but that it is the best of its kind in that regard.

Anyways, I couldn't rightfully call it the best anime of all-time with other series that are probably more influential being out there, but is it wrong for me to call it my favorite anime of all-time? Yeah, its a shonen when you get down to it, and it can't compete with the style of Cowboy Bebop or the depth of Neon Genesis Evangelion, but being viewed on its own its a damn good action series with complex characters and great story-telling. I certainly can't fault it for being so good at that, myself.

I'm sure that series like Legend of the Galactic Heroes are far superior (and I plan to continue watching that when I get the chance), but this may very well be my most-watched anime for the rest of my life. Even if I completely stop watching anime and cartoons altogether, I have a feeling that I'll never forget about this series.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Few anime beat it in consistency, plotting and dialogue, and general accessibility, though. I'd say other than Cowboy Bebop and the original Dragon Ball, there are few gateway drugs as good as this is.

Also a fighting anime where the fights usually involve proper strategy are always more interesting to watch and would most likely interest those who might not like shonen.

Not to sell DBZ short in that area, but most post-Freeza fights are boring as hell.

[gunswordfist]

I remember some site said that Yusuke had an average anime voice and I think he said that the Dark Tournament is a generic anime arc. Thankfully it wasn't a popular site

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, would anyone be interested in doing specific episode discussions? I wouldn't do it for every episode in this series, but it'd be interesting to hear some people's thoughts on key episodes in the series.

For example, what do people think of episode 1?

I still find it to be one of the strongest, most memorable, and most unique openings to any shonen series (or any series in general) ever. I'll go more into detail about it later, but one thing I want to mention that I like was the presentation of Yusuke's relation with his mother. Its a nice subtle touch but what makes it stand out is that its not a generic "shonen hero with no mom or dad that doesn't even address the existence of his or her parents." Its not played out in any cliche sort of manner to try and get you to feel sorry for the character in that regard. I find it both hilarious and oddly refreshing that Yusuke's mom is just and irresponsible drunk, and the fact that (with the exception of the manga), Yusuke's dad is basically just some random guy that left his mom after a one-night-stand or something of the sort. It just feels oddly not kid-friendly for a family situation for a main protagonist of a shonen and I kind of like that quality about it, but its just a very minor, subtle thing and I'm probably looking too much into it.

Of course the main reason for why I love the episode so much is that it starts out with the main character literally being KILLED right at the very start of the show. Then he's a ghost and gets to reflect on the events leading up to the fateful car accident, and through the flash-back we get to know plenty about him and the people who hold any semblance of significance in his life though some brilliant characterization. I challenge anyone else to come up with a first episode from any other battle shonen series that is either as unique or just as downright good and engaging as YYH's first episode. Quite frankly I don't think that its possible.

[Spark Of Spirit]

The first episode is the best possible way to start a show. With a hell of a hook. The main character is dead. How did it happen? What's gonna happen next?

A lot happens in this one episode that it's enough to get you invested in the story and the world. First episodes are rarely this good nowadays.

[Avaitor]

I have the entire episode memorized at this point. It's still one of the best debut episodes in any series that I can recall.

Some of it is interesting to think abut after watching the whole thing in full, though. Like Kuwabara crying at Yusuke's funeral. Something you wouldn't expect from when we met earlier in the ep, but becomes more apparent after getting so accustomed to the character.

[gunswordfist]

That warrants a rewatch for me

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Alright, how about episode 7? Gouki and Kurama:

The first half of the episode is kind of a basic defeat the villain sort of deal as Yusuke cleverly takes down Gouki in a rematch. However the 2nd half of the episode is definitely more memorable stuff. It is revealed to first time viewers as a surprise that Kurama is not a villain, or at least it seems so. He offers to give Yusuke the treasure of the Forlorn hope with no catch attached to the deal, except just for letting him use it for one night to give up his life to save his mother. In half an episode we get so much great characterization for my favorite character in the series. Kurama explains that he used to be a villain as a demon, and then got chased down and in a near death state inhabited the body of a yet to be born fetus in a pregnant woman, and thus growing up as a human boy and developing feelings for his human mother. Its both a touching and really interesting story and it makes Kurama easy to sympathize with and like as a character. Yusuke's interference at the end allowing for Kurama's life to be spared also comes off as a really touching moment in its own way, even though Yusuke was being a total idiot when he did that.

Overall, its a good episode in terms of introducing a new character, and it holds some significance for me since Kurama grew to be my favorite character in the entire series.

[Spark Of Spirit]

The fight was great in the traditional YYH way, in how it was about technique and not strength. But I also enjoyed Kurama's story, and how Yusuke tried relating to it in his own way. The two had a pretty good chemistry with each other throughout the series in how similar they are despite their different origins.

I think it was the first time we were told that maybe there was more to these demons than just mindless killing machines, which factored in pretty heavily later on.

[Eddy]

You guys are making me think about buying this whole series off Amazon.

THANKS YA JERKS 

[gunswordfist]

Alright, how about episode 7? Gouki and Kurama:

The first half of the episode is kind of a basic defeat the villain sort of deal as Yusuke cleverly takes down Gouki in a rematch. However the 2nd half of the episode is definitely more memorable stuff. It is revealed to first time viewers as a surprise that Kurama is not a villain, or at least it seems so. He offers to give Yusuke the treasure of the Forlorn hope with no catch attached to the deal, except just for letting him use it for one night to give up his life to save his mother. In half an episode we get so much great characterization for my favorite character in the series. Kurama explains that he used to be a villain as a demon, and then got chased down and in a near death state inhabited the body of a yet to be born fetus in a pregnant woman, and thus growing up as a human boy and developing feelings for his human mother. Its both a touching and really interesting story and it makes Kurama easy to sympathize with and like as a character. Yusuke's interference at the end allowing for Kurama's life to be spared also comes off as a really touching moment in its own way, even though Yusuke was being a total idiot when he did that.

Overall, its a good episode in terms of introducing a new character, and it holds some significance for me since Kurama grew to be my favorite character in the entire series.

Oh yeah, how could I forget that Kurama wanted to sacrifice himself in his first appearance.

[Avaitor]

Episode 7 was good at introducing Kurama's human side. I do believe that the ongoing debate between the existence of the human world and spirit world was one of the key parts of the series, and Kurama being so deeply tied to both was a brilliant touch to it. Right away, he had arguably the strongest ties to both worlds at once, and discovering his story helped to add shades to his character that was missing in demon characters at that time in the show. Really good stuff.

And yeah, the fight between Yusuke and Gouki was pretty cool, too.

[Angus]

You guys are making me think about buying this whole series off Amazon.

THANKS YA JERKS 

If you do get it, let us know how the Blu-Ray is.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

After seeing Greg X's post with his opinions on the shows ranked on our list, I saw that he didn't care for this show and never got its appeal. That's all fine, but it sort of got me to think about another subject that I have been pondering about for a while.

We basically know that action shonen series are Japan's equivalents of what comic-book superheroes are to us westerners. That's not to say that its the same thing, because both genres are very different, but they do share core elements of good guys and bad guy, special powers and/or abilities, and general core elements of a story involving action of this sort and the like. However there are a ton of key things that separates shonen manga/anime from superhero comics/cartoons. Now, I would post this discussion question in the shonen thread but then it'd just come down to superhero cartoons are superior on the whole (there are a lot more crappy shonen that I can think of than superhero cartoons, and a lot less brilliant ones than superhero cartoons as well).

However, being that most of us here consider YYH to be one of the best (if not THE best) of the shonen genre, how do you guys feel that it stacks up to a great superhero cartoon? Obviously it can never come close to being compared to the level of influence of something like BTAS and its pacing, while amazing for its own genre, would feel too slow to someone born and raised on the more episodic and consistent western comic book cartoons.

That said, as someone who grew up on both types of series, I can appreciate their vastly different styles of story-telling and action. Western shows are a bit better with treating their audience with more intelligence and not going overboard with exposition, instead giving you necessary information and keeping the dialogue to a minimum in that area (while letting the audience make implications for themselves when they can), allowing more time for action and progression of the story. Also the fights are much more well-choreographed and fluid, and this is primarily because western cartoons don't spend any time on actually having to explain abilities. On the flip side, its a trademark of shonen to extensively explain abilities and have strategy written into their fights that get explained by side-line characters. Unfortunately this inevitably slows down the action, but when this is done right it makes for VERY, VERY interesting battles, even if they do take up the better portion of a few episodes at times. I think YYH is masterful at this element of battles, personally, and thus it makes up for its weak animation quality when it comes to animating its fights.

Now, as for the actual story and writing, aside from the first handful of episodes with Yusuke as a ghost, the rest of the Spirit Detective arc is decent but mostly on the average side of things compared to the rest of the series. The Dark Tournament arc would at first be a hard sell to anyone used to the episodic or short-arc based plots of superhero cartoons. I mean, after-all, 40+ episodes are spent on one tournament. That said, the actual content within the tournament is full of REALLY, REALLY good writing, characterization, and plotting. There is a story going on between the intense battles, and the battles themselves are full of strategy and are well-written (yes, you heard me write, these battles actually have good writing put into them). This keeps the show constantly entertaining.

And of course, the Chapter Black arc does something completely different than anything scene before, both within the series itself and within the genre as a whole. I'll say it right here and now: I think that on a level of sheer quality, its hard to argue that the Chapter Black arc is good enough to be on par with any of the best superhero cartoons. I'd go as far as to say that Togashi at his best is just as good of a writer as Greg Weisman is. I'm sure a lot of people would find that statement to be overpraising Togashi and YYH, but I personally think that its true, and this is coming from a HUGE fan of Gargoyles and The Spectacular Spider-Man, so take that for what you will.

Of course, with the various differences in story-telling and overall style that YYH and other shonen bring, its very understandable why some people born and raised on great western animation can't find any appeal in it, and its fair enough to view things that way. Even so, since I was raised on both western animation and shonen anime, and also because I have looked at the flaws of both types of animated shows when I re-watch them and take off my nostalgia goggles, I can safely say that while I do have a ton of bias for YYH, on the whole I no longer have a huge bias towards either types of shows. Instead I judge mostly on a level of what I find to be quality story-telling and entertainment value, and I like a series like YYH just as much as Gargoyles and BTAS (actually, its my personal favorite action cartoon if you want to get technical, but I like all 3 series on a near equal level on the whole).

Anyways, that's my personal input in comparing these types of shows. I don't expect that many people would completely agree with me (especially if we were considering people other than members on this board), and I'm not denying some of my own personal biases, but its the way that I truly feel, so take my opinion for what its worth to you.

[gunswordfist]

There aren't that many good superhero cartoons. Besides, imo, the old Superman shorts and Spider-Man And His Amazing Friends, there hasn't really been any good superhero cartoons before the 90s. Because of that, I think there are more good Shounen series by default, even though it's still not that many. I can name 20 on a good day while I can only barely scrap together a list of 10 good superhero cartoons.

Which genre is better is a different story though.