Dragon Ball (All Series)

Started by Spark Of Spirit, March 14, 2011, 07:58:17 PM

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LumRanmaYasha

Tien Shinhan's arc in the anime is simply fantastic and a shining example of how filler, when used properly, can improve upon the original source material.

Unfortunately, most anime adaptions give DBZ-esque padding and random comedy filler nowadays. Ugh.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

As far as DBZ filler goes, I mildly enjoyed the Garlic Jr. Revenge arc, and I liked that humorous episode where Goku and Piccolo learn how to drive. I also got a small kick out of the Saiyaman episodes. Other than that, I can't stand any of the filler in DBZ.

LumRanmaYasha

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 01:56:01 PM
As far as DBZ filler goes, I mildly enjoyed the Garlic Jr. Revenge arc, and I liked that humorous episode where Goku and Piccolo learn how to drive. I also got a small kick out of the Saiyaman episodes. Other than that, I can't stand any of the filler in DBZ.

I don't think Garlic Junior's arc holds up at all. It feels like it goes on too long, none of the villains are interesting and the concept of Gohan's friends and loved ones turning against him felt wasted. I did enjoy Kami and Popo's role in the arc, as well as some of the scenes of Vegeta looking for Goku, but the arc as a whole is rather boring to me.

I think the episode where Goku and Piccolo *try* to learn how to drive not very funny and kind of medicore myself. Everyone else on the planet seems to love that episode though, so I guess that's just me.

As for the filler in DBZ I do like:
Gohan and the Dinosaur.
Gohan and the Old Robot.
Pendulum Room Peril.
The Arlia episode.
Goz and Mez.
The episode where Gohan transformed into a Great Ape a second time because of Goku's old ship.
Scenes involving Launch.
Princess Snake.
Goku chasing Gregory with the mallet.
Nappa destroying military and naval fleets while waiting for Goku.
When Goku left the hospital to go train because he was worried about the safety of the others.
Captain Ginyu switching bodies with Bulma.
Scenes involving Imperfect Cell hunting humans for energy while the Z fighters try to stop him.
The scene where Hercule pulled three buses behind him at a demonstration.
The second of Mercenary Tao's episodes.
The Great Saiyaman episodes, excluding the Dinosaur one.
Some of the scenes that show Bulma and company hunting for the Dragonballs to revive the people Vegeta killed.
Most of the extra scenes showing other characters donating energy/trying to get other people to donate energy to Goku when he is charging the Spirit Bomb to defeat Kid Buu.
The episode where Majin Buu foils a Bank robbery.

I know that seems like a lot, but it's really only about 30% of the filler in the show. The stuff I cant stand is usually the stupid comedy filler, like anything with Marron, or Bulma during Namek, or Chi Chi during anything. I will say that the filler during the Saiyan saga is actually good or at the very least not painfully mediocre, but the filler in the show definatley gets worse around middle Namek with the exception of a couple stand out moments. That being said, even though there is filler I enjoy in DBZ, I prefer to watch Kai nowadays, especially since it even keeps some of the filler I like such as Imperfect Cell hunting down humans.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: Cartoon X on March 16, 2013, 03:38:22 PM
I don't think Garlic Junior's arc holds up at all. It feels like it goes on too long, none of the villains are interesting and the concept of Gohan's friends and loved ones turning against him felt wasted. I did enjoy Kami and Popo's role in the arc, as well as some of the scenes of Vegeta looking for Goku, but the arc as a whole is rather boring to me.

I never said it was good. I just said that I mildly enjoyed it, if only because I kind of enjoyed the Dead Zone movie and I kind of liked that this arc called back to that. Its still mediocre filler, but its not as god-awful as most of the other DBZ filler. That, and unlike most of the other filler in the series, this doesn't take place in the middle of a canon arc, so it doesn't drag down the quality of material from the manga, as it can be skipped and nothing would be lost in translation.

QuoteI think the episode where Goku and Piccolo *try* to learn how to drive not very funny and kind of medicore myself. Everyone else on the planet seems to love that episode though, so I guess that's just me.

Humor is a very subjective thing. I don't think its laugh-out loud funny, but I do find humor in the absurdity of the situation.

QuoteGohan and the Dinosaur.

I don't even remember this one, honestly.

QuoteGohan and the Old Robot.

This one was actually pretty decent, now that I think about it.

QuotePendulum Room Peril.
The Arlia episode.
Goz and Mez.
The episode where Gohan transformed into a Great Ape a second time because of Goku's old ship.
Scenes involving Launch.
Princess Snake.
Goku chasing Gregory with the mallet.
Nappa destroying military and naval fleets while waiting for Goku.

Personally, these are the types of fillers that I HATE the most. They aren't too bad on their own, but what bugs me so much about them is that unlike the bad stand-alone fillers, these ones downright slow down the plot since they deliberately occur within the middle of an arc. I LOVE the Saiyan arc in the manga, and to me these kind of butchered the already slow pacing of the anime adaptation. I know that they were trying to add to the story like how they did with the Dragon Ball filler episodes, but whereas those fillers were written well to be interwoven into the stories and give them some added depth, here they just feel lazily forced in to stall the pacing of the series and drag out the episode count to keep the series from catching up to the manga. That may have been the intention with the Dragon Ball fillers as well, but whereas those ones felt like the writers were still trying to maintain the quality of the story-telling, here it just felt like they didn't care much at all. That said, its just my opinion, of course.

QuoteWhen Goku left the hospital to go train because he was worried about the safety of the others.
Captain Ginyu switching bodies with Bulma.
Scenes involving Imperfect Cell hunting humans for energy while the Z fighters try to stop him.
The scene where Hercule pulled three buses behind him at a demonstration.

Once again, these fillers fall into the above category that I just don't like, but they didn't bother me as much since I merely only liked the arcs that they were adapting, whereas I downright loved the Saiyan arc, so those fillers hurt more than these ones, for me.

QuoteThe second of Mercenary Tao's episodes.

I liked this one, myself, and any other general fillers that called back to early (and forgotten) Dragon Ball characters.

QuoteThe Great Saiyaman episodes, excluding the Dinosaur one.

As I stated before, I also get a kick out of these episodes, myself.

QuoteSome of the scenes that show Bulma and company hunting for the Dragonballs to revive the people Vegeta killed.

Once again, this is among the ones I don't care for.

QuoteMost of the extra scenes showing other characters donating energy/trying to get other people to donate energy to Goku when he is charging the Spirit Bomb to defeat Kid Buu.

I liked these scenes as well, but I wouldn't count them as filler "episodes," since they are just scenes interwoven into actual material adapted straight from the manga.

QuoteThe episode where Majin Buu foils a Bank robbery.

This, along with the last few episodes of the series (which were all filler episodes until the final episode), were fairly amusing. I actually liked the filler at the end of the series as it gave more closure to the characters that we had all come to love throughout the series, and showed them living a peaceful life, whereas the ending in the manga felt rather rushed, IMO.

LumRanmaYasha

#139
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
Humor is a very subjective thing. I don't think its laugh-out loud funny, but I do find humor in the absurdity of the situation.

Yeah, I can understand that. I've just never cared for that episode, personally, but the concept is pretty great honestly. I just wished the episode overall turned out funnier than it was.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
QuotePendulum Room Peril.
The Arlia episode.
Goz and Mez.
The episode where Gohan transformed into a Great Ape a second time because of Goku's old ship.
Scenes involving Launch.
Princess Snake.
Goku chasing Gregory with the mallet.
Nappa destroying military and naval fleets while waiting for Goku.

Personally, these are the types of fillers that I HATE the most. They aren't too bad on their own, but what bugs me so much about them is that unlike the bad stand-alone fillers, these ones downright slow down the plot since they deliberately occur within the middle of an arc. I LOVE the Saiyan arc in the manga, and to me these kind of butchered the already slow pacing of the anime adaptation. I know that they were trying to add to the story like how they did with the Dragon Ball filler episodes, but whereas those fillers were written well to be interwoven into the stories and give them some added depth, here they just feel lazily forced in to stall the pacing of the series and drag out the episode count to keep the series from catching up to the manga. That may have been the intention with the Dragon Ball fillers as well, but whereas those ones felt like the writers were still trying to maintain the quality of the story-telling, here it just felt like they didn't care much at all. That said, its just my opinion, of course.

Eh, it's true they slow the pacing, but I never cared with them because I enjoy these episodes regardless.

I like Pendulum Room Peril because of it's creepy atmosphere. I also think it shows that the invasion of Saiyans is a big deal, placing pressure on the Z fighters to get stronger, and I attribute the experience as to how they were able to improve so well in the anime version (whereas their surge in power in the manga didn't really feel authentic to me because I never got the sense they understood what was at stake).

The Arlia episode is really funny to me. Vegeta and Nappa crash land on a planet full of bug people, and there's some whole love-story/revolution thing at play that they are completely apathetic about, yet they eventually end up becoming heroes by killing a giant bug monster, and then blow the planet up just for kicks. It's just a fun episode, but it also shows that these guys are dangerous (they are the first villains we see blowing up an entire planet, after all). Like Pendulum, I feel it built up their arrival on Earth as more of a big deal than in the manga.

I found the Goz and Mez and Princess Snake episodes amusing. I like that in the anime Goku has some misadventures on Snake Road before getting to King Kai's planet, because the extended journey made finally getting there feel like an actual accomplishment for him, where in the manga he just did it.

There are only three scenes involving Launch, and they are all really short. I just found Launch's obsession with Tien Shinhan hillarious, although the scenes themselves dont add anything to the story. The last scene with Launch during the Goku/Vegeta fight is pointless, but it happens at the start of an episode and seques well back into the actual fight, so I never minded it.

To be honest, I didn't realize Gregory was filler until I read the manga. The task of smacking him with the mallet seemed like a natural progression of Goku's speed and strength training to me. That's probably why I've never minded it.

Nappa destroying shit was fun to watch. It doesn't serve any purpose at all, but, I dunno, I liked watching it.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
QuoteWhen Goku left the hospital to go train because he was worried about the safety of the others.
Captain Ginyu switching bodies with Bulma.
Scenes involving Imperfect Cell hunting humans for energy while the Z fighters try to stop him.
The scene where Hercule pulled three buses behind him at a demonstration.

Once again, these fillers fall into the above category that I just don't like, but they didn't bother me as much since I merely only liked the arcs that they were adapting, whereas I downright loved the Saiyan arc, so those fillers hurt more than these ones, for me.

Again, I understand where you are coming from. But I've enjoyed these scenes despite their frivolousness.

Goku leaving the hospital to try and train again, even though he is severly injured, was a pretty emotional scene to me as a kid. Mainly because it shows how dedicated Goku is to his friends, that he wants to get to them as fast as possible, and stronger than before to face enemies more dangerous than Vegeta. For me, it made his recovery feel like a moment of victory.

Captain Ginyu switching bodies with Bulma goes nowhere, but I like it just because frog Ginyu and frog Bulma have funny moments. Plus, I just like Captain Ginyu, so there's some personal bias on my part.  :P

Imperfect Cell hunting humans led to some pretty cool scenes. I particularily enjoy the one where he was stalking a mother and her daughter in a creepy mirror maze.

Hercule pulling three buses behind him ends up being a fun introduction to his character, even though it isn't necessary.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
QuoteSome of the scenes that show Bulma and company hunting for the Dragonballs to revive the people Vegeta killed.

Once again, this is among the ones I don't care for.

To be honest, I really only like one of these scenes, where Master Roshi ends up doing something useful for the first time in all of Dragonball Z, while still managing to be comedy relief. It's not important in the least, but it's a humorous scene and I enjoyed it. That's all there is to it.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
QuoteMost of the extra scenes showing other characters donating energy/trying to get other people to donate energy to Goku when he is charging the Spirit Bomb to defeat Kid Buu.

I liked these scenes as well, but I wouldn't count them as filler "episodes," since they are just scenes interwoven into actual material adapted straight from the manga.

I never said they were filler episodes. I called them "scenes," didn't I.  ;)

By extra scenes I meant the moments where people where hesistant to trust Vegeta's plea, when Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, and Gohan went to get other people to give their energy, Bora and Upa, Android 8 and Suno, Launch, Korin and Yajirobe, and Nam's appearences. All of it just works, and make the formation of the Spirit Bomb a really triumphant moment.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
QuoteThe episode where Majin Buu foils a Bank robbery.

This, along with the last few episodes of the series (which were all filler episodes until the final episode), were fairly amusing.

Kid Buu was defeated in episode 286, and the series ended at 291. Of the five episodes after Kid Buu's defeat, only episode 288 was complete filler (287, the Buu one, has some canon material at the beginning and 289-291 had material from the manga's final chapters). I agree episode 288 is a good wrap up episode, from what I remember, featuring pretty much the entire cast and all. But Buu's episode is just hillarious to me, but I found Buu in general to be extremely likeable and funny anyway, so again I like that episode more out of personal bias more than anything.  :P

gunswordfist

Lol at EK not remembering Gohan and the dinosaur. That's like the shows most iconic filler.

I hate the Saiyaman episodes.

All this Dragonball filler talk makes me want to watch the show now.
"Ryu is like the Hank Hill of Street Fighter." -BB_Hoody


Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: gunswordfist on March 16, 2013, 09:16:31 PM
Lol at EK not remembering Gohan and the dinosaur. That's like the shows most iconic filler.

Uh, Yeah, it may disappoint you to know that people don't take pointless fillers as seriously as you do.

LumRanmaYasha

Quote from: gunswordfist on March 16, 2013, 09:16:31 PM

I hate the Saiyaman episodes.


Why? I think they are fairly fun episodes myself, especially the one where Gohan gets blackmailed to go on a date and the one where he helps Videl stop some Robbers (or something, I don't remember exactly).

LumRanmaYasha

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 16, 2013, 10:04:35 PM
Uh, Yeah, it may disappoint you to know that people don't take pointless fillers as seriously as you do.

Well, to be honest, among DBZ fans it is a pretty iconic filler episode. But it's nothing to get worked up about.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

To me, its still a filler episode. I hardly see anything iconic about it. Then again, to be honest, I don't really like DBZ as an anime adaptation, anymore. As I've stated before, I love the manga, but DBZ itself just doesn't really work for me, despite having some really memorable moments dispersed between a lot of other crap that drags the story out.

Spark Of Spirit

I really didn't like the Captain Ginyu switch because the Goku Vs. Frieza battle already was too long in the anime. This filler made it last even longer. The same reason I disliked Bulma's filler on Namek, the Namek arc is already incredibly long without these distractions to make it last longer. Between arc filler to expand on characters is fine, or even within an arc if it expands on the plot and motivations for the characters, but adding side stories that add up to nothing just kill the pacing.

QuoteThe scene where Hercule pulled three buses behind him at a demonstration.
This took a whole episode and stalled the plot dead cold.

This is why it is by far my least favorite filler in the series.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

LumRanmaYasha

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 16, 2013, 11:17:47 PM
I really didn't like the Captain Ginyu switch because the Goku Vs. Frieza battle already was too long in the anime. This filler made it last even longer. The same reason I disliked Bulma's filler on Namek, the Namek arc is already incredibly long without these distractions to make it last longer. Between arc filler to expand on characters is fine, or even within an arc if it expands on the plot and motivations for the characters, but adding side stories that add up to nothing just kill the pacing.

It's pointless and distracting, but I found the situation itself humorous, so I didn't mind. I do hate most of the Bulma filler on Namek though.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 16, 2013, 11:17:47 PM

This is why it is by far my least favorite filler in the series.

It took an entire episode? I remember it taking maybe three minutes, in an already filler episode. Maybe I should actually watch the Cell Games Arc again and refresh my memory.

Spark Of Spirit

Not so much that, but the one at the start of the Cell Games when they introduced his pupils took a whole episode. That scene might be in a different episode, but that episode really annoyed me when I first watched it. I didn't even need to bother tuning in.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

LumRanmaYasha

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 16, 2013, 11:34:46 PM
Not so much that, but the one at the start of the Cell Games when they introduced his pupils took a whole episode. That scene might be in a different episode, but that episode really annoyed me when I first watched it. I didn't even need to bother tuning in.

Oh...I know what you're talking about now.  :D Yeah, no, the scene with Hercule pulling the buses happens in an earlier episode than that, I think in the one that also features Mercenary Tao's first appearance in DBZ. I hate the pupils episode too.  >:(

Spark Of Spirit

Oh, then I don't really mind the scene. Throwaway scenes don't bother me so much. Throwaway plot-lines do.

But like Ensatsu-ken I'm also not the biggest fan of the Dragon Ball Z anime, I think it was better in manga form. The original series I can go with either.  :)
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton