Toonami

[Rynnec]

Am I the only one that thinks the first episode of Deadman wasn't even that violent? Yeah, the opening scene was pretty gory, but I've seen worse.

[Spark Of Spirit]

If it's anything like the manga, it will get a lot gorier. It doesn't ever really get interesting, though. It's pretty lame as a whole.

Just so you know, Deadman starts strong and becomes shitty while Casshern starts strong and becomes sleep-inducing. IMO.

I actually read the Deadman manga when bored. I don't know if the anime keeps it, but there is one disturbing scene near the end involving a flashback between the villain, his computer, and his mother that always made me wretch. The story might deal too heavily on "make everyone selfish and greedy cuz" syndrome, but I thought that scene was actually pretty effective.

No idea if it's in the anime, though.

[Foggle]

I don't think the anime gets that far into the story. But I stopped watching around episode 9, so I can't say.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I think my problem with these so-called "dark" and somewhat noir-esque anime shows is that they seem to forget to actually have interesting characters. They seem so wrapped up in identifying their style that they almost completely forget about the substance of the writing, to the point where the series eventually ends up unintentionally becoming a parody of itself. Stuff like Future Diary, Doubt, and other series of the same nature fall prey to this syndrome. There is a point in Death Note where it gets really borderline into this territory, and arguable crosses it, but I still feel like the authors made a save for that series with the ending, which is still awesome.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I think my problem with these so-called "dark" and somewhat noir-esque anime shows is that they seem to forget to actually have interesting characters. They seem so wrapped up in identifying their style that they almost completely forget about the substance of the writing, to the point where the series eventually ends up unintentionally becoming a parody of itself. Stuff like Future Diary, Doubt, and other series of the same nature fall prey to this syndrome. There is a point in Death Note where it gets really borderline into this territory, and arguable crosses it, but I still feel like the authors made a save for that series with the ending, which is still awesome.

I agree. I've never really liked "dark" material that goes too far in the gritty direction because they tend to make the characters jerks that you couldn't give a flip about. People badmouth cheese for being too unrealistic at times, but I think this stuff is far more unrealistic and just plain isn't even interesting to watch.

Or worse, when they try to make the plot "turn" dark, which almost always ends up being ridiculously corny and even more unbelievable than a simple straight ending would be. Like you mentioned Doubt. That ending is probably one of the worst, and yet almost every modern horror film ends exactly the same way. Which pretty much proves how terrible horror movies are nowadays.

[Foggle]

Future Diary is incredibly cheesy, but on purpose (I think). It gets really awful near the end, and the protagonist(s) are obnoxious as hell, but for the most part it plays out like a spot-on parody of other "dark" anime. Which may or may not be intentional.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

With Doubt it really sucks since I actually genuinely liked the first three-quarters of the story. Then it just got stupid with needless plot twists that were just downright stupid, and characters acting unreasonably unlikable. The ending just killed it for me, though.

I don't mind a series being "dark" if the writer can handle the subject material really well. Unfortunately Naoki Urasawa is the only mangaka who I have seen to pull that off flawlessly. Togashi can do it well with HXH when he's trying, but there are too many times when even he falls to the traps of making a series too dark at the expense of being ridiculous.

[Foggle]

The ending just killed it for me, though.

How does it end? Don't care about spoilers.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I'd even argue that Naoki Urasawa works well with dark material because it's never hopeless. That's the only way dark material works is when there's light to balance it out.

The ending just killed it for me, though.

How does it end? Don't care about spoilers.

Everybody dies and the villain gets away because the bad guy is apparently smarter than the entire world.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

The ending just killed it for me, though.

How does it end? Don't care about spoilers.

**Spoilers**....For anyone else who cares....

I haven't read the manga in years, but basically the main character's girlfriend (or sort of) thought he was with another girl when he was really working with her to buy a gift for his girlfriend. She went all psycho and ended up killing that girl and then revealed that she killed everyone else in the group to the main character. Then they knock her out or something and get her to a hospital, but then that one psychic girl who appeared to be dead at the beginning of the story turns out to be alive, and uses her powers to get the detective killed. Then she reveals that she had some code word to get the main character's girlfriend to go all psycho again which he unintentionally says for some reason. It turns out that she started these games where she gets groups of people to kill each other because she's angry at people in general for doubting her abilities as a psychic and also because her parents died in a car accident or something like that. If that description sounds confusing to you its because the ending is literally that stupid and convoluted.

[Foggle]

I'd even argue that Naoki Urasawa works well with dark material because it's never hopeless. That's the only way dark material works is when there's light to balance it out.

Indeed. That's something any writer should know. I'm very fond of putting dark endings in my own work, but dark and nihilistic are very different things. Even if the protagonist fails and the antagonist succeeds, there's gotta' be *something* in there that makes the story feel fulfilling.

**Spoilers**....For anyone else who cares....

I haven't read the manga in years, but basically the main character's girlfriend (or sort of) thought he was with another girl when he was really working with her to buy a gift for his girlfriend. She went all psycho and ended up killing that girl and then revealed that she killed everyone else in the group to the main character. Then they knock her out or something and get her to a hospital, but then that one psychic girl who appeared to be dead at the beginning of the story turns out to be alive, and uses her powers to get the detective killed. Then she reveals that she had some code word to get the main character's girlfriend to go all psycho again which he unintentionally says for some reason. It turns out that she started these games where she gets group of people to kill each other because she's angry at people in general for doubting her abilities as a psychic and also because her parents died in a car accident or something like that. If that description sounds confusing to you its because the ending is literally that stupid and convoluted.

Wow... that's... wow. Only in a manga.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I'd even argue that Naoki Urasawa works well with dark material because it's never hopeless. That's the only way dark material works is when there's light to balance it out.

Indeed. That's something any writer should know. I'm very fond of putting dark endings in my own work, but dark and nihilistic are very different things. Even if the protagonist fails and the antagonist succeeds, there's gotta' be *something* in there that makes the story feel fulfilling.

Yes, I think it's important for a story to give the audience something in an emotional way. They connect with the characters, get absorbed in the story, and feel the themes, so to put in an ending like this:

**Spoilers**....For anyone else who cares....

I haven't read the manga in years, but basically the main character's girlfriend (or sort of) thought he was with another girl when he was really working with her to buy a gift for his girlfriend. She went all psycho and ended up killing that girl and then revealed that she killed everyone else in the group to the main character. Then they knock her out or something and get her to a hospital, but then that one psychic girl who appeared to be dead at the beginning of the story turns out to be alive, and uses her powers to get the detective killed. Then she reveals that she had some code word to get the main character's girlfriend to go all psycho again which he unintentionally says for some reason. It turns out that she started these games where she gets group of people to kill each other because she's angry at people in general for doubting her abilities as a psychic and also because her parents died in a car accident or something like that. If that description sounds confusing to you its because the ending is literally that stupid and convoluted.

Is the equivalent of masturbation for the author. You tricked the audience into caring about your story in order to fellate your own ego instead of giving the audience something worth their time.

That's why stories written with agendas in mind are never as strong as those with a soul in it.

To bring it on topic, it's why I won't be watching this Toonami line up. I find this type of material insulting as a storyteller.

[Nel_Annette]

I missed it all and partied all last night. But DW looks like it has a hot white-haired anime chick, so maybe I'll catch it next week. 

I am glad Toonami is back, I really am, but damn, nothing on there looks like it can grab me anymore. I've been struggling to complete my anime library of titles I like these past few years, let alone trying to get into any more. Maybe I'm just growing out of anime. But I will try to catch these next week and see if anything clicks.

[gunswordfist]

FUCK, I MISSED CASSHERN SINS?! FUCK!!!

I had to see that I missed Toonami coming back for real this time from some title of a video on youtube.

And lol @ them basically saying they have a shoestring budget. Damn, I wish I still had CN.

[gunswordfist]

There's also season 2 of Star Wars The Clone Wars. I know it's certainly far from the best western action show on CN right now, but the first season has aired on [as] before, and the marathon from a few months back got excellent ratings, so it'd be a natural pick, especially with how dark it can get.

Dammit, I missed them bringing back The Clone Wars? The first season is the best part. For Han and Anakin, everything goes downhill after Anakin blows away that bald alien. The alien tribe scenes are so fucking boring. They should just focus on reairing both for completion.