The Retro Gaming Thread

[Spark Of Spirit]

Eurogamer article on Rare's demise.

It turns out Microsoft did a lot more damage than we thought.

[gunswordfist]

I remember that Virtual Bart game being fucking impossible when my brother and me rented it when we were kids. All I remember from Bart's Nightmare is some living room level and Super Bart. Also, good find with Clash at Demonhead. Said little brother also has that on my laptop so I need to get into that and try to get past the first level more than once.

[gunswordfist]

To be fair I wouldn't pit the XBOX with any of those consoles. Its not really a very good console, but I did get to play good games on it, so its certainly not a really bad console either. Besides, the fact that it had Ninja Gaiden Black on it automatically saves it from being shit, since that is in fact the best game ever made, even though nobody but me is smart enough to realize that.

Really, other than Halo, the Dreamcast ports, Ninja Gaiden, and a platformer/shooter or two, the original Xbox didn't really have much going for it.

Only the first party for Xbox sucked. It's 3rd party was on par with PS2's since a lot of third party games couldn't be made on the GC (because the SKUs or whatever the shit they are) and Xbox almost always had the better version of a multiplaform game than PS2. Imo, PS2 is only better because of exclusives.

[Kiddington]

Eurogamer article on Rare's demise.

It turns out Microsoft did a lot more damage than we thought.

It really is any wonder that Rare continues to stay afloat in this day and age. I know they've found a niche in pushing Kinect shovelware and all, but they're just so irrelevant in the overall grand scheme of today's industry. They really used to be a major player; now it's almost like a small miracle to even hear their name come up.

I do want to say, though, that I've always felt Nuts and Bolts was pretty underrated. A bit quirky, sure, and certainly not what we were all hoping for and/or expecting in a Banjo-Kazooie sequel eight years after the fact, but it's far from being a bad game. It's just too bad that the franchise is pretty much dead because of it (you knew a game like this wasn't going to strike much of a chord with general audiences, as we've seen).

[Spark Of Spirit]

Eurogamer article on Rare's demise.

It turns out Microsoft did a lot more damage than we thought.

It really is any wonder that Rare continues to stay afloat in this day and age. I know they've found a niche in pushing Kinect shovelware and all, but they're just so irrelevant in the overall grand scheme of today's industry. They really used to be a major player; now it's almost like a small miracle to even hear their name come up.

I do want to say, though, that I've always felt Nuts and Bolts was pretty underrated. A bit quirky, sure, and certainly not what we were all hoping for and/or expecting in a Banjo-Kazooie sequel eight years after the fact, but it's far from being a bad game. It's just too bad that the franchise is pretty much dead because of it (you knew a game like this wasn't going to strike much of a chord with general audiences, as we've seen).

I think Rare just doesn't mesh with the Microsoft audience. Also, most of their teams seemed to stumble a lot in the years after Perfect Dark until around Kameo which is almost two full generations in length. Microsoft changing things around leading to most of the talent quitting probably what really hurt them.

And since they're stuck making another Wii Sports clone we might never see a new Banjo Kazooie, Killer Instinct, Perfect Dark (a REAL one), Jet Force Gemini, Battletoads, or Conker game again. All those franchises are just sitting there rotting and wasting away.

[gunswordfist]

*sigh* Just hearing something like "A Battletoads 4 announcement will be made shortly" would make my heart beat. Rare was my absolute favorite developer.

[Rynnec]

The fact that Rare and Microsoft haven't done anything with Killer Instinct puzzles me. It seems like it would mesh well with Microsofts audience, and it would give them another exclusive fighting game franchise. Perfect Dark I can somewhat understand seeing how Zero got a lukewarm reception.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Actually, I think Perfect Dark Zero was a million seller. The problem was fan backlash. A proper sequel to the original would have sold a LOT more, though. That's for sure.

But yeah, Killer Instinct especially after Mortal Kombat's huge return would have made so much sense. Heck, making a KI character a guest character in the latest game instead of nobody probably would have been a smarter idea. Microsoft just doesn't know what to do with Rare.

[Spark Of Spirit]

To anyone thinking it was Rare who killed themselves, Grant Kirkhope spoke out in a podcast a while back claiming it was Microsoft that "shot the company to hell". He also made claims that Rare had begged Microsoft to change Nuts & Bolts into what it became, and that the original concept was far worse than what we got.

So it's Microsoft's fault that we didn't get Banjo Threeie.

Like Nuts n Bolts all you want, but that should not have been a replacement for a sequel at least millions of people were waiting for.

[gunswordfist]

To anyone thinking it was Rare who killed themselves, Grant Kirkhope spoke out in a podcast a while back claiming it was Microsoft that "shot the company to hell". He also made claims that Rare had begged Microsoft to change Nuts & Bolts into what it became, and that the original concept was far worse than what we got.

So it's Microsoft's fault that we didn't get Banjo Threeie.

Like Nuts n Bolts all you want, but that should not have been a replacement for a sequel at least millions of people were waiting for.

Oddly enough, this is similar to what Nintendo made Rare do with the Star Fox game for GC.

[Foggle]

Like Nuts n Bolts all you want, but that should not have been a replacement for a sequel at least millions of people were waiting for.

Like Nut n Bolts? My childhood ended the day it was revealed to not be a platformer.

This trailer brings tears to my eyes now. Banjo is back? Fuck you Microsoft.

[Kiddington]

Like Nuts n Bolts all you want, but that should not have been a replacement for a sequel at least millions of people were waiting for.

Hey, I'll be the first to admit that Nuts and Bolts isn't what we should have gotten, and ultimately was what killed the Banjo-Kazooie franchise for good. Taking the series in a totally different direction just wasn't going to sell - and it didn't - and it really is a large part of the blame for Rare being a complete non-factor in today's industry (if they had instead made Banjo-Threeie, there's no doubt that it would have been a smash hit ala BK-1 and Tooie, and Rare would probably still be a relevant factor for Microsoft, as opposed to peddling Kinect shovelware like they are now). And again, it pretty much killed BK for good; we'll probably never get another game in this series again because of it's tepid sales and lukewarm reception/outright backlash.

...that being said, I still kinda liked it. I didn't love it, not by any means, but I thought it was fine for what it was. So sue me.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

The reason people don't like Nuts and Bolts is because it has the Banjo Kazooie name and design slapped onto it. In terms of gameplay there is almost no basis for the hate. Basically if it was just a game called Nuts and Bolts with the same mechanics but different characters and was its own game not related to Banjo Kazooie, it'd probably be more well-liked, though also more niche since nobody would bother even paying attention to it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

To anyone thinking it was Rare who killed themselves, Grant Kirkhope spoke out in a podcast a while back claiming it was Microsoft that "shot the company to hell". He also made claims that Rare had begged Microsoft to change Nuts & Bolts into what it became, and that the original concept was far worse than what we got.

So it's Microsoft's fault that we didn't get Banjo Threeie.

Like Nuts n Bolts all you want, but that should not have been a replacement for a sequel at least millions of people were waiting for.

I'm confused. That quote you just put up says that Rare begged Microsoft to change Nuts and Bolts into what it is....as in the game that we have now, and it says that the "original" concept was much worse than what we got. So, does that mean that Rare asked Microsoft to deliberately let them change it into a vehicle-building game? And what was the original concept supposed to be, then? Maybe I'm just not reading it right, though, or out of context....

[gunswordfist]

Just like Devil May Cry 2.











OK, maybe not the best example but it's an average game that people think is much worse than it really is.