Devil May Cry Series

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Cool!

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, I didn't notice this before, but quite a few reviews for the reboot credited its "new" feature of allowing you to unlearn certain upgrade moves in order to experiment with other ones. That is to say, you could spend thousands of red orbs to attain one move, but later on decide that you want to try out another move, and instead of earning all of those red orbs again, you could essentially unlearn a move that you had already purchased and get back all of the corresponding red orbs for that move to learn and experiment with another move. Now, that feature is definitely great and all, but am I the only one who realized that this feature was already implemented back in DMC4, or do some of these reviewers just clearly not do their research?

[Rynnec]

The latter.

Seriously, it's like these reviewers never played DMC 3 and 4 and only went by what they heard...which is probably what it is.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I finally got a chance to play some more DMC3 today, albeit just a little bit. I played through a little bit more of Easy mode just to get my Gunslinger style up to level 2, so now I have more than just the default abilities for each style (and I have both Trickster and Sword Master at their max level). Gunslinger can be kind of fun for being stylish, but I don't see much practical use in it for tackling the harder difficulties, and now that I'm resuming my Very Hard mode play-through, I don't think I can see myself using it at all on this difficulty (or Dante Must Die, for that matter). It seems like something that more fitted to when I play on a more manageable difficulty just to be stylish and have fun.

As for Very Hard mode, I think I've adopted my new strategy for how I'll tackle most of the rest of the game on this mode. Before I said that my favorite secondary weapon in the game was Agni & Rudra, but while they are fun to pull off combos with on the easier difficulties (that includes Hard mode as being among the "easier" stuff in the game ), they are a bit harder to use properly on the higher difficulty settings. In this regard, Beowulf has quickly become my new favorite secondary weapon for these more challenging parts of the game. When you first get the weapons they seem kind of dull because they are slower than the other weapons and are a bit harder to get used to, but once you realize how effective of a technique jump-cancelling is, and how the jump-cancel attack with Beowful is not only the easiest to pull off in regards to timing among any of the weapons, but also the most powerful one of them as well, they instantly become the deadliest weapon in the game, even out-classing Rebellion, IMO. By this point, I've gotten down jump-cancelling with Beowful pretty well, so I can use it as a reliable strategy to fight tougher enemies and bosses.

On top of having the best weapon-set to go into the difficulty with, I also need to use the most useful styles. I've quickly learned that Royal Guard is extremely useful on the harder difficulties once you get used to using it, which is much easier said than done. At this point, I'm still not very good at my timing with this ability, but I'm gonna need to practice with it and die a few times in the process in order to get it down properly, which is going to be pretty necessary for some of the toughest fights in the game, so that's really all there is to that. For other segments that aren't quite so demanding, though, I'm fine with just using Trickster, which is by far the easiest style to utilize and can be pretty useful even on the higher difficulties. So I'll most likely only be switching on-and-off between the Royal Guard and Trickster Styles on my Very Hard (and subsequently my Dante Must Die) play-through. While Sword Master is a fun ability as well, and maybe a bit more useful than Gunslinger, it still doesn't seem like the best option for the upper difficulty settings, at least not compared to the main 2 that I'm using now.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, just out of curiosity, for any of you guys out there who are DMC fans, if it were ever announced that we'd be getting a proper DMC5, what would you guys like to see from it? What would it take for you guys to make it a game that could potentially be considered the best in its genre for its time?

For me, I'd of course like to see even further additions to the combat system and whatnot. Personally I think that they should find a way to make Dante's Royal Guard style part of his base move-set, as I'm a huge fan of counter-mechanics in fighting and hack n' slash games. Also, in general, I think the game should finally be the one to take place after DMC2 in terms of chronology of the story, and the setting could pick up with Dante in hell, essentially. This could lead the way to much tougher enemies that finally forces Dante to be a tad less cocky (though still as cheesy and hilarious) and from a character point of view, it'd be nice to see how he acts under the pressure of facing tougher foes than usual that would all start really testing the full limits of his power. Also, Dante being in hell would be a good excuse to have Vergil make a reappearance in the game, as well as Dante finally coming face to face with Sparda, and depending on the circumstances he meets him under, that could be a potentially bad-ass boss fight.

I would also like to see a level design much more akin to DMC1, or if I were to be so bold something as richly designed as Ninja Gaiden Black, or even full-on like a Metroid or Zelda game in how you have a very interconnected world to navigate. I feel that sort of level design actually suits a hack n' slash game perfectly, and it would work for DMC as well. Actually, it might as well go for a Resident Evil sort of level design again, as that has always worked the best for DMC games.

Anyways, I'm just curious to here everyone else's thoughts on the subject to gauge what people really like about the DMC series in the first place, and where they would want to see it go. i'd ask a similar question for Ninja Gaiden, but right now I'm so pissed off at the people currently managing that series that I don't even want to think about it for a while.

[Foggle]

Gameplay like Ninja Gaiden 2 mixed with Bayonetta, level design like Ninja Gaiden Black, story/cutscenes like Devil May Cry 3, and music like No More Heroes would be my perfect hack n slash.

Strictly speaking of DMC series, gameplay like DMC4 Dante, level design like DMC1, story/cutscenes like DMC3, and music like DMC3 but with more tracks.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Gameplay like Ninja Gaiden 2 mixed with Bayonetta, level design like Ninja Gaiden Black, story/cutscenes like Devil May Cry 3, and music like No More Heroes would be my perfect hack n slash.

For me, It should take the enemy AI from DMC1/NGB, the visceral combat-style of NG2 while still retaining a DMC juggle-happy sort of vibe, the overall variety in set-pieces offered up by Bayonetta's style of gameplay, and it should top it all off with a story that can actually properly convey the more serious parts of DMC1's story in terms of tone (preferably with better voice actors), while throwing in a fair amount of DMC3-style over the top cutscenes for good measure.

Strictly speaking of DMC series, gameplay like DMC4 Dante, level design like DMC1, story/cutscenes like DMC3, and music like DMC3 but with more tracks.

I'll be honest: I've never been a fan of the music in DMC games. I think there were some good (though ultimately forgettable) tunes in the mix, but what they need to do is spice up the in-level music with more variety, have some different combat music while also removing the godawful vocals from it completely, and they could also help their variety by adding different tones of music instead of just your choice of gothic or metal-inspired pieces.

[Foggle]

I'll be honest: I've never been a fan of the music in DMC games.

Same here; I like the more atmospheric songs, though. I just think DMC3 had the best battle music of the five games so far.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Who scored the music for most of the good classic RE games? Whoever that is, Capcom should get him or her to score the music for future DMC games. I think the series could do with some good, atmospheric music.

[Rynnec]

A more visceral version of Bayonetta's combat with Dante's DMC4 gameplay, the ability to dual-wield certain weapons, have some of Nero's DT moves in base form and make the Red Queen's Exceed ability easier to pull off, and dynamic music for boss battles ala Metal Gear Rising. Something like Bayonetta's torture attacks or NG2's Obliteration techniques would be nice too.

I'll be honest: I've never been a fan of the music in DMC games. I think there were some good (though ultimately forgettable) tunes in the mix, but what they need to do is spice up the in-level music with more variety, have some different combat music while also removing the godawful vocals from it completely, and they could also help their variety by adding different tones of music instead of just your choice of gothic or metal-inspired pieces.

Aw, I like the godawful vocals. I dunno why, but I like the Industrial-metalish(?) music, it just feels like it fits DMC for some reason.

That being said, I wouldn't mind more variety for certain characters. Like Dante gets the normal sounding vocal tracks, while Vergil's battle themes sound more in the style of Ultra Violet,  and Nero's songs would be more punk-rock inspired.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

make the Red Queen's Exceed ability easier to pull off

This especially. Maybe I just suck, but I STILL can't pull the exceed ability off during normal combat in any reliable fashion. On a few swings I may get lucky, but overall the timing required to pull it off consistently is ridiculous.

NG2's Obliteration techniques would be nice too.

I'd also say it'd be cool if you could execute throws/grab moves at the end of combos like in NG2, as well. That would be amazing in a DMC game, especially as it would offer a really kick-ass way to end long combos, IMO, or even chain them into new ones.

Aw, I like the godawful vocals. I dunno why, but I like the Industrial-metalish(?) music, it just feels like it fits DMC for some reason.

I'm sorry, I should've been more specific. I don't actually mind the use of metal-ish music in DMC games. It suits the game just fine in terms of tone. I just wish there was more variety to the soundtrack than just 80% metal music with the other 20% being composed of effective but limited gothic-themed scores.

That being said, I wouldn't mind more variety for certain characters. Like Dante gets the normal sounding vocal tracks, while Vergil's battle themes sound more in the style of Ultra Violet,  and Nero's songs would be more punk-rock inspired.

Yeah, something like this is more along the lines of what I'm talking about. I just want more variety, really.

[Foggle]

I could never figure out how to use Exceed either.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I could never figure out how to use Exceed either.

Well I do know HOW to use it. I just can't use it consistently.

Essentially you have to press the button you have the Exceed ability assigned to at a VERY specific time-frame during a swing (your window of opportunity is literally only like a couple of frames out of the 60 FPS that this game runs at), and doing so will light up 1-3 bars on your Exceed meter depending on how close your timing is (even getting 1-bar is freaking hard as fuck to do). its a useful technique once you master it, but that's just it, I flat-out can't master it. My timing and reflexes are just not that physically good.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I beat missions 8 and 9 of DMC3 on Very Hard mode today. Honestly, aside from a few key fights, the game never really feels that much harder on the higher difficulty levels. I imagine DMD mode will change that since enemies have the ability to devil trigger on that difficulty, but on Very Hard mode, its all a matter of just knowing how enemy patterns work. Bosses do attack more often on this difficulty, but by this point I have already mastered most boss patterns, so its just a matter of being more patient in waiting for an opening to attack.

Still, its a ton of fun to keep replaying this game, mostly to just really hone in my skills on pulling off awesome combos and such.

[gunswordfist]

Hmmmm, what would I like to see in DMC5? First off, it has to be made by the 3/4 team.

I want an end to small rooms being locked/areas being locked. Dante needs to have a lot of space to move around. I liked how much space some parts of the beginning of Nero's campaign had. Also, you should almost always be able to leave through the door/space you came from and only the door/space you have to advance through should be closed off until you defeat all the enemies. When you come back, all the enemies should be revived until you actually beat all the enemies so players don't just pick off enemies one by one by coming back and forth.

I obviously want Vergil to return. First as a boss, then as a playable character. I would love for them to strike some balance between his Nelo and Vergil moves.

Separate campaigns for any playable character. Well for Dante and Vergil basically. I want Vergil to actually fight Dante and not himself in his campaign, have his own cutscenes and for both to have most of their bosses be exclusive to their campaign. Basically, the twins should be in the same general setting but visit different levels there and only meet up to fight each other and for important story parts. I would also like Nero to show up and be playable for a couple of levels to switch things up, have him have a few new weapons and fight some enemies that can break out of Devil Bringer. Also, after Vergil and Dante's story modes are beaten, I would like to see them let you play through them as the other brother. Plus, have Nero playable for an entire campaign after either one is beaten.