If this series were actually licensed here, I'd probably just be slapping you all with ANJ awareness PMs a la Foggle. ;)
Anyways, I've been gushing about this manga on another thread, but it's basically a critically-acclaimed manga that ran from 1968-1973, and is regarded in Japan as a true classic and one of its best. The story itself is very familiar, about a young man named Yabuki Joe who's a complete misfit until he finds a goal in life, in this case Professional Boxing. And in many ways, yes, this seems to be the series that's most credited for starting many of the tropes that we see in shounen today.
What's funny, and ironic, is that despite it being the influence for many later series to expand upon, it still contains better writing and more dynamic characters than at least 95% of its imitators. This is a surprisingly smart, and also very effectively emotional, series that is very representative of the mind-set and desires of lower-class Japanese citizens during a post WWII economy where poverty was all too common. Beyond that, it's also just a really fun series with great characters and an almost timeless sense of humor. Don't be fooled by its age. This series puts most series today to shame with how incredibly well-written it is, so it's definitely at no disadvantage there.
Right now scans only cover up to 13 out of a total of 20 volumes of the manga, but if it were ever to be completed in English, then you could bet that it comes with my highest recommendation possible. This is one series that clearly earned its status as being legendary.
I've been checking out the anime. Interestingly enough it seems to have quite a few differences from the manga, while following the same general story. I also heard that this anime had most of its episode scripts written by the author of the manga himself, so this should certainly be an interesting watch.
So now that you've finally caught up with the scans, CX, I was wondering what your thoughts on AnJ are past Joe and Rikiishi's official fight.
Also, now I can finally post this video up: http://youtu.be/q3hubP194-c
That was a fascinating video. I had already heard about peoples' reactions to that aftermath, but it's still amazing to hear of how strongly this series, and these characters, resonated with people. I think the greatest works of fiction are the ones that can leave the kind of impact that makes people truly, fully invest in them, as if they were real. For so many people to come together for the death of a fictional character, a manga character, in that time, and for people to be crying at that funeral too, that's the mark of something truly special. This series really must have meant a lot to people back then for it to have that kind of effect on people. It's no wonder it's still remembered as a classic to this day.
I've been meaning to post my thoughts on volumes 8-13 earlier, but I hadn't the time until now. Here goes:
Spoiler
The fight between Joe and Rikiishi lived up to expectations and then some. From the start it was a battle of endurance and strategy, with both fighters knowing that even just one powerful hit from the other would be enough to cost them the match. From there it just escalated in intensity, with Rikiishi pushing Joe out of his comfort zone like never before, rendering his attacks nearly useless and turning his own strategy on it's head. The section where they went back and forth exchanging hooks with each other was glorious. Seeing Joe have to drop his signature no guard stance, basically his pride as a boxer, in order to have a fighting chance at taking out Rikiishi is evidence enough of the intensity of the situation. And the resolution, with both of them in no guard stances, waiting for the other to strike first, was incredible. Both knew that whoever went first would be the one to go down. That was probably the most intense stare down I've ever seen. And of course, Rikishi, who knew Joe all too well, was able to win because Joe got too impatient, and overestimated his own ability, and underestimated Rikishi's. That singular mistake cost him the entire match. Really, one of the most incredible battles I've read. Not only was there so much weight to this battle, but it was more than just a battle of fists, but a battle of wills, determination, and wits. And it was a fight both could be proud of. Seeing Joe accept his defeat, and get up to acknowledge Rikishi, was a great moment....
And then, the aftermath. It was like a punch in the gut. And yet, so, so believable, which made the pain get across so much more.
The look on Joe's face when he heard the news said it all. I don't even know how to really describe it. It perfectly conveyed the agony, shock, grief, all the emotions Joe must have felt at that very moment. The moment he realized he killed Rikishi.
After this, the way Joe took the death at first was brilliantly subdued. The uncomfortableness of him playing with the kids instead of going to Rikishi's funeral, looking at his own punch in the mirror, beating up the punching bag non-stop until it was covered in blood...all of this building up in tension until he acknowledges the emptiness and pain he's feeling, breaking down in tears at the park. It's like a string of brilliant scenes after this. Yoko watching him from afar. Danpei, Nishi, and all the townspeople around him, worried about him. And then the scene at the bar, where he, a professional boxer, was beaten to a pulp by those low-life thugs. The closing words to part 1 couldn't have been any more poignant.
The whole sequence where Joe was aloof and a vagabond afterwards was brilliantly handled. It was a sorry sight to see Joe wallow in self-pity like that, to the point where even Nishi called him out on his bullshit. Two great moments of contrast were also well done. The first is between Joe and Wolf. The latter was forced to give up boxing, and now is a shell of himself, full of regret. Joe has quit on his own, but he still has life in him. Unlike Wolf, he can still fight. Wolf was at the point where he was incapable of overcoming his situation, but Joe can move on, and still achieve great things. The second great contrast was between Joe and Yoko when they met at that club. Joe has decided to wallow in the past, essentially giving up on living. Yoko on the other hand, has decided the best thing for her is to move on with her life and seek a new happiness. Dancing at the club is a way for her to overcome her grief and begin moving forward. I like how the manga takes it's time to realistically establish the long term grief Joe would have over Rikiishi's death. Most manga series nowadays, even good ones like One Piece and Toriko, have the characters get over their darkest point rather quickly. Joe, however, takes just the right amount of time to explore the situation, which makes the moment where he decides to train again really have a lot of impact and feel like a celebratory scene.
But Joe doesn't even stop there! In most mangas that'd be the end of it, and Joe would have been over Rikiishi's death completely. But he's not. Even after regaining the conviction to box he still is affected by what happened psychologically, subconsciously avoiding hitting his opponents in the head. He doesn't necessarily become weaker, in fact, his return matches have him pulverize the competition. To have the protagonist make a comeback but still be scarred is a pretty rare thing to see. And then, of course, it leads to another lowest point. Those three matches Joe looses in a row, vomiting each time on the ring, are painful to read. The fact he can't escape the shadow of that match with Rikiishi, and is willing to go to new lows in order to pummel it out, is a depressing thing to see. Few manga have made me feel depressed, especially to the extent this series did in those three matches and Joe's decision to join the underground boxing circuit. But what's really brilliant is how it makes so much sense for the problem not to go away that easily. It's still something that has affected Joe in a significant way, and something he has to work at in order to overcome. It's a logical, and natural progression of his character arc and goes to a place where I haven't seen many series go. And it makes Joe's eventual overcoming of his trauma all the more satisfying.
I think it's brilliant how Carlos is introduced as a way to re-motivate Joe. In essence, he serves the role Rikiishi did; a goal to which Joe must overcome, something he was missing when he returned to boxing, explaining his soulless fighting during that time. I'm sure that was intentional on Yoko's part, and I'll love to see what else she's got in store to challenge Joe. Either way, Carlos and his manager are hilarious and lovable characters, and I loved how the rivalry between Joe and Carlos was established. Their exhibition match was wonderful, because through Carlos, Joe was finally able to let out all his baggage over the death of Rikiishi by finding pleasure in the sport again, and that felt like a victory well-earned. I really can't wait to see their official match.
I'm amazed at how much there is to laud about this series. The character development is cutting edge, whole, and the series is not afraid to embrace the harsh realities of the boxing world and bleak depths within it. There's so much going on in this manga thematically and in through it's characters that it's no wonder it feels so modern, and why it's considered such a beloved classic. I'm definitely in love with the series now, and am eager to finish this story. It's one of the finest comics I have ever encountered.
Wow! You basically just summed up my thoughts perfectly. I wanted to have a conversation about this with you, but I literally can't think of a single thing to add that you didn't already touch upon. But yes, I LOVE how the mangaka handled that death and its consequences on Joe's character. It's REALLY powerful stuff that has such a harsh reality behind it all that it can really affect people on an emotional level. When I said that most stuff that I had recently watched paled in comparison to this series, that's specifically what I meant. I hadn't read or watched anything in a long time that could so easily make me feel so strongly about its subject material in such a long time. When this manga shows you the low points of Joe's life, I feel depressed right along with him. Yet, when he manages to overcome his hardships, I genuinely feel the triumph of those moments. This manga is a roller-coaster of the highs and lows of Yabuki Joe's life, and really more than just being a sports manga about boxing, it really does have a lot to say, thematically, about life, and more specifically that of lower-class Japan in the late 1960's (though I would argue that you could apply many of its themes to your own life as well, which is truly amazing for it as a piece of foreign art).
Really, the only thing stopping this manga from being my new favorite of all time is that the scans aren't finished yet, putting that aside, though....yes, this is the single greatest comic that I have ever read, by far.
Oh and you've just gotta love Joe's character development. He's still as volatile and self-destructive as ever, but you've just gotta admire how much heart the guy has to him. I mean, after Danpei accidentally got him disqualified against Carlos, could you have ever imagined him standing up for him and defending him from angry spectators back at the beginning of the series? I love how Joe becomes more likable as a character as the series progresses, yet he is always still so flawed, but the tenuous thing is that this series is clearly very aware of his flaws as a human being, which oddly enough makes him feel more human than just about any other animated character that I have ever seen.
Joe's character development is one of my favorite parts about the manga too. Beyond all the growth he underwent in his character arc past the fight with Rikiishi, in the beginning of the series he was much more arrogant, selfish, and hot-headed. Slowly, though, thanks to the influence of the people around him, he's become much more caring of others. The Joe at the beginning of the series would never have stepped in to save Wolf from being pummeled to a pulp. Joe is also a lot more patient and mature now, willing to listen to other people's advice when need be and think strategically in order to win tough fights. Like you said, Joe is still very flawed and sometimes gets too riled up or pushes other peoples buttons too far, but he's definitely not the cocky jerk he used to be, and his growth from a street punk into a hero for the people of the slums is even inspiring. I agree that he's an incredibly human character, and definitely one of the most realistically developed ones I've seen in comics.
I think Joe is the perfect example of the right way to write a hot-headed character and still make him likable. I was wondering what separated him from characters like Naruto or Korra that just made him so much more endearing, but really it's that because he's such a human character and certainly was anything BUT sheltered throughout his whole life, you understand that he learned to be rough to fend for himself, and on top of that he's actually not the least bit stupid as people assume these types of characters tend to be. He constantly learns from his mistakes and has proven on numerous occasions that he's both capable of thinking through things strategically (on occasion even outclassing Danpei himself in this department) and he has very good insight into both himself and the people around him, like how he realized right away that he was really fighting Rikiishi's ghost rather than the highest ranked Bantam-weights back when he was trying to overcome his state of depression.
On top of this manga being one of my new favorites, Joe Yabuki has also easily become one of my favorite anime characters. You also really get a sense of just how influential he was, now that I see traces of him in man great anime characters, especially Spike from Cowboy Bebop. People on this board really need to give this series a chance. I think that they'd be surprised as to just how captivating it all is, and would find that the quality level of its writing puts most modern series to shame.
Now that I've finished the anime, I really want to read the rest of the manga for comparison. But holy shit was that an amazing finale, and one that this series truly deserved. It ends in a way that no other modern series has the balls to go for, but what we got was something with real depth to it, and while it may not be up everyone's alley, I for one really appreciate this ending. For me it's right up there with Cowboy Bebop's ending as one of the best and most iconic out there.
There are 131 new pages up!
Thinking about the anime, I'd say that the only part of this entire story that I didn't quite care for was the whole Harimao segment, but it was a rather short story arc, and if the worst thing that I can say about a series is that I found one really small part of it to be kind of "eh," then that's a really good thing. In the grand scheme of everything, I pretty much loved everything else that this series had to offer.
GOD I love this series. I just can't get it out of my head, and now that I've finished the 2nd anime, I want to go back and finish the first one, watch the live-action movie, and do so e research to learn everything that I can about this series and the author and artist behind it. I'm literally that obsessed with it at this point, which hasn't happened to me with any anime series since Yu Yu Hakusho.
Goddamit the newest scan didn't even finish Joe and Carlos' fight! :srs:
That was some INTENSE stuff. Great tension at the beginning, cutting brutality when the blows started to fly, and then of course the battle of wits portions of the match, and I loved Joe's clever way to overcome Carlos' strategy against his rope ploy. I also loved seeing Carlos being pushed to his limits as well, finally acknowledging Joe's skills as a boxer and taking the match ever more seriously. But Joe is also taking this very seriously, really concentrating hard on ways to counter Carlos, and taking a gambit by allowing Carlos to demonstrate his counter strategy to him even though the blow could've easily knocked him out of the match. He's really developed in maturity and as a tactical fighter, though he still has his edge too. This match is honestly on the level of Joe and Rikiishi's official match so far, to me.
Aside from the greatness of the fight, I thought Yoko and Danpei got some great character moments too. But with Yoko in particular, I loved how they called back what Joe said to her during Joe and Rikishi's prison fight, since the situation is much the same as she is the architect of the fight and she must see it through no matter the outcome. Yoko's always been a very fascinating character to me and I've been enjoying her character arc like everything else in the manga. I hope she continues to have a good role in the story after this match.
Now I'm even more antsy to get to this part (and beyond) in the anime soon. Spring break can't come fast enough...
Alright, so I want to give my impressions of each arc in this series after my first run through it, and it'll be interesting to compare it to how I feel about it a few months later when I re-read/watch it again (and yes, I would gladly go through it again that soon, or possibly even sooner). Just keep in mind a few things. First of all, every ranking I give for each arc is relative to the series itself and not other series. If it were, then I'd end up giving almost EVERY single arc in the series a 10/10 because it's just that damn good to me. So if you see a 7/10 or 8/10, just know that it's only by this series' standards, and that compared to most other manga and anime, it would rank so much higher. Speaking of arcs, since this is a relatively obscure manga, there aren't any commonly agreed upon names for the story arcs by fans that I know of, so I can take the liberty of making them up for myself and drawing the boundaries where I see fit (since they can be kind of unclear at times). Finally, all rankings for stuff that comes past where the current translations of the manga are up to are going by the anime rather than the manga, so just keep that in mind.
With that said, here are my ratings:
Part I:
Tokyo Slums (8/10): This is an excellent way to start the series. It'd probably be too slow for most readers who don't have a good appreciation for setting up a story nicely, and it's not as though it has the strongest writing that this series has to offer, but what can you expect? It's just the best possible way to set up the characters, establish Joe Yabuki as the jerk-ass that he is, and it also establishes Danpei Tange as the man destined to train him. The kids are all likable companions who enlist in Joe's shenanigans, and Nishi is a great initial rival for Joe, who eventually becomes his best friend. For me, this arc covers up through to Joe's trial before he's sentenced to over a year in juvenile prison (so it includes the Tokyo Correctional House portion of the story).
Juvenile Prison (10/10)- This is where the story truly starts. I love the portrayal of the prison in this manga. The other kids really try to rough-house Joe and Nishi, and it quickly establishes itself as a facility where inmates have to look out for themselves and only the truly tough can gain enough respect from the other inmates to be left alone. Luckily Joe uses his strength to quickly dominate just about anyone who tries to oppose him....until he meets Rikiishi, who knocks him out in one punch during a failed escape attempt. This sets up one of the most memorable rivalries in the entire shounen genre, and in this arc we get a lot more exposure to characters like Danpei as he trains Joe. Nishi really proves himself to be a worthy friend to Joe, here, and the boxing matches that occur in prison are appropriately rough and gritty, but also very intense and entertaining. Yoko also becomes a more prominent character in this arc.
The Rise of Joe Yabuki (10/10)- After Joe gets out of prison, this manga gets even better. First we get to see the politics of the boxing world and how the corrupt businessmen and gym owners running Japan's boxing league all have it out for Danpei who ruined his own reputation in the past by being a drunk who constantly abused his own boxers. While it is a regretful part of his past, it is clear that Danpei has changed since then, and that they are just being corrupt ass-holes using their power to deny him a second chance by refusing to grant him a trainer's license to make his gym official and quality his boxers to take their own license exams. I won't spoil anything for anyone, but the way that Joe goes about "changing their minds" is one o the best moments in the series, and it really shows that unlike characters like Korra or Lion-O, Joe Yabuki is just as clever as he his hot-headed. The rise of Joe and Wolf to rookie stardom is great, and their match is amazingly intense. It's at this point that I knew this series would be a favorite of mine.
Joe Yabuki vs. Rikiishi Tooru: The Ultimate Rivalry (11/10)- The build-up to this match, the actual match itself, and the aftermath are what encompass this arc, and good good is this some of the most amazing writing I have ever seen in any form of fiction. Everything from Rikiishi's intense weight-loss regimen to how this event affects both his and Joe's lives is truly some of the most captivating story-telling that I've ever had the pleasure of reading. I can't say anymore than that without spoiling it for anyone.
Part II: Square Jungle
The Fall Of Joe Yabuki (11/10)- This arc somehow manages the impossible task of carrying forward the momentum of the previous arc, and it's just as good. It's a bit misleading in the beginning, since Joe is already going through depression as he's wandering around Tokyo. The scene where he runs into his old rival Wolf who's working for the Yakuza now is a great way to start the arc, and the scene where he runs into Yoko at the night club is also memorable. Then Joe decides to try and make his comeback, and at first it seems like Joe is rising to further heights than ever before, but it doesn't take long for his fatal flaw to rear it's ugly head and nearly kill his boxing career. The following chapters where he is reduced to wandering around Japan participating in low-brow, fixed fights for washed-up boxers is really tragic stuff, but it just sets him up for yet another big come-back later on.
Carlos Rivera (10/10)- Carlos and his manager Roy are both hilarious characters, but on the more serious side of things, Rivera is the perfect motivation to kick Joe back into top gear and re-ignite his motivation to become a pro-boxer and aim for the world title. This is truly top-notch stuff.
Dragon Kim (10/10)- Once again, I won't spoil anything for anyone, here, but what Joe goes through here is reminiscent of what another character went through in an earlier arc, and it's very much poetic justice for him in this case. As for Dragon Kim, his back-story is one of the most intense and disturbing that I have ever seen for any anime character, and his fight with Joe does not disappoint in the slightest.
Joe Yabuki Does America (9/10)- I decided to get a little creative with this title. Sure, he goes to Hawaii which technically fits under the jurisdiction of the OPBF (at least according to this anime), but it is officially an American state, so it counts. Really-speaking, nothing very extraordinary happens in terms of plot, and Joe's actual opponent is quite forgettable. The REAL point of this arc is for Joe to finally confront the world champion by meeting him face-to-face for a real conversation, Jose Martinez. It's a lot of early build-up, but you can really tell that it's going to lead to something big.
Harimaou (7/10)- Easily the weakest part of the series, as the match felt unnecessary, but oddly enough....that's kind of the point, so in that regard it really wasn't unnecessary. Once again, it's very hard to talk about just what I mean without completely spoiling the story for you, so you'll just have to watch it for yourself. That said, it's still genuinely good stuff. It's just that it's not quite up to the usual standards of this series, but even on its own, it kills most modern shounen in terms of quality and memorability.
Joe Yabuki vs. Jose Mendoza: The Clash of Champions (11/10)- The last fight in the series, the ultimate climax, and the definitive ending....simply beautiful. Putting spoilers aside, even if I could explain the fight, no words I could come up with would do it any justice. And of course, just as important as the fight itself is what leads up to the fight, and I can't spoil that either. All I'll say is that last conversation between Yoko and Joe was a really memorable moment, and the way things wrapped up and concluded at the end couldn't have been more perfect for this kind of series, IMO. Truly an amazing ending for an amazing series, though it likely won't be up everyone's alley if you're too spoiled by more typical story-telling conventions.
I'll wait until I'm done with Joe 2 to put up my ratings, but that may be redundant since I 100% agree with yours up to Carlos Rivera.
Few series are so excellent all the way through.
TWO. WHOLE. FUCKING. VOLUMES. UPLOADED. IN. ONE. DAY. MUST! READ! :joy:
I just caught up with the current scans of the manga. Volumes 14 cover up through the end of the Joe vs. Carlos fight, and leads into the beginning of the Joe vs. Kim fight, which going by the anime is even better than the Carlos fight, which is saying a lot.
Spoiler
There were some differences between the anime and the manga in this part, but overall it was less extreme than removing so much material from the Carlos Rivera arc. One particular filler scene that I really appreciated from the anime was when both Joe and Danpei snuck back to their old Gym and ran into each other there by accident. They then agreed to spend just one more night in that Gym for old-time's sake before moving into the new one for good. I just love sentimental moments like that.
After seeing Kim's backstory in the manga, I'm pleased to see that the anime made no changes there, and didn't even edit out the head-bashing scene, either. That was some seriously disturbing yet surprisingly effective shit. I mean, it was even enough to make Joe Yabuki himself cringe, which you know means it then has to be something pretty fucked up.
I've got to really express how impressed I am with this series. 15 volumes in and not even ONE SINGLE TIME has this manga ever shows signs of slipping in quality. It's just as strong, if not even better, as how it was where I last left off at before these scans. How many series can you honestly say are that consistently great?
So would you say this is your new favorite series? ;)
Check his updated Favorite Manga and Anime lists. :humhumhum:
It'd be my #1 favorite myself if the manga was only completely translated. The recent progress shows promise that the translators'll be done soon, though.
Yeah, pretty much 5 untranslated volumes are all that stand in my way of calling this my favorite manga. I already know from the anime that the rest of the story is great, and there's really nothing else like this series. It's on a level of quality that is comparable to any of Tezuka's finest work.
So, have you had a chance to catch up to the manga yet, CX, or are you still waiting until Spring Break?
I'm going to try and read the new scans tonight, if I can fit it in after doing homework/packing/finishing library books I have to return. Otherwise I'll just read them tomorrow since I'll have the night free after my flight.
And....volume 16 is out. Thank you so much fan-translators for the sped-up releases. I don't know what I'd do without you. :thumbup:
It does make me kind of regret finishing the series via the anime and not just waiting for the rest of the manga to come out, but how was I supposed to know that just shortly after I caught up to it that we'd suddenly be getting full volume releases in rapid succession? Of course, the anime was terrific, so watching it certainly wasn't a bad thing, and despite knowing what happens, this series proves how amazing and classic it is in that it's every bit as exciting going through the same events in the manga that I already watched in the anime.
At this point I might as well just declare this my favorite manga ever, since it's obvious that it's not possible for it to disappoint me at any point in the story, but just for the sake of completion I'll still hold off until I've read all of it.
I just finished volume 16, and wow am I impressed at just how good this manga still is. There were only a few notable differences in the anime version, but I really appreciate the detail put into different places in both versions. In particular I like how certain events take place earlier in the manga than the anime, such as Joe and Danpei moving into their new gym (though I love that one filler scene from the anime where they both go back to stay in the old gym for one final night), as well as how Danpei tests Joe for being Punch Drunk before the Hawaii trip rather than before the World Title match, which to me felt a bit late to catch onto Joe's problem by that point in time. On the other hand, I do enjoy how the anime really helps to expand Yoko's already prominent role in the story, and we get to see what she's actually up to in many scenes that just happened off-panel in the manga. Both versions have their strengths, though overall I still prefer the manga for its consistency.
I've caught up on the scans. Volume #16 was probably the least changed when the material was adapted in the anime so far, especially concerning the Dragon Kim fight. Still, I liked those extra scenes with Yoko and the investigator (I forget his name atm), and seeing her interact with Mendoza's family and befriend them in order to get the exclusive rights to Mendoza's fights in Japan. Those were great scenes and I enjoyed how the anime showed how active she was in helping Joe's career after the Carlos Rivera arc while here in the manga it's happening off-screen. Also, I really like the investigator guy that helps provide information to Yoko and Joe in the anime, so I'm surprised he isn't in the manga at all.
One thing that I really think the anime does better than the manga, though, is Nishii. Nishii just suddenly disappears in the manga half-way into the Carlos Rivera arc, and while we see some brief closure for him and Noriko in this volume, for a character that played a significant role for most of the manga and is Joe's best friend, it just feels off that he's written out like this. I preferred how in the anime, he gets a whole episode of closure on his boxing career to himself, and continues to stick around and second during Joe's matches.
Still, the manga is as solid as ever, and the final 4 volumes should be just as great. With the volumes coming out so quickly now, it should only be a matter of time before it's all completely translated. I wonder whether I should just wait for that, even though I only have 16 episodes left of the anime. I probably won't since I'm enjoying Joe 2 a lot and do want to finish it, even though now that I'm super busy with class work it'll take me until a good while yet to do so.
While the last few releases were a pleasant surprise, we may have just gotten lucky, and there's no telling how long it will be until the next release.
The addition of the reporter, while not necessary to the plot, did a good job of dealing with a lot of the exposition in the series without actually making it feel like exposition. Furthermore it gives Yoko someone besides Joe to interact with.
The anime does sacrifice the more fluid pacing of the manga by adding these scenes in, of course, but most of the additions themselves are good, so it's a fair trade-off.
Also I just have to say, as someone who just tends to think a lot of Japanese voice-acting sounds similar and can't really distinguish too many voices, I LOVE Joe's voice. Granted that, he clearly sounds way older than he is, but his voice is just the right brand of effectively dramatic, humorous, and bad-ass. And you just have to see how amazing the seiyuu's performance in the final episode is. That guy hits emotional notes in a way that I never thought was possible for Joe's character to go to based on his voice. Seriously, this guy deserves a medal, and as far as I know, Joe is the only VA credit to his name. He's never voice acted as any other character in his entire career, so then I can only conclude that he was just born to play Joe.
Well, according to IMDb he voice acted a character named Dr. Flitz in an anime movie called "Kaz wo Mita Shonen" and also has done several live-action roles, but I agree he perfectly captured Joe's character and is definitely one of the more memorable voices I've heard in anime, right up there with Fumi Hirano's Lum for me (which is high praise since that's by far my favorite non-dubbed VA performance in anime).
Volume 17 is up, now. Man, we really are getting close to the end of the manga. It's very likely that it'll be finished in another few months if we keep getting big releases at this rate. And really, it has nearly cemented its spot as my favorite manga of all time, and my favorite shounen series, period.
Interesting. In the anime, Joe wasn't able to keep his 2-round KO promise in his fight against Pinang, whereas in the manga, he does follow through with it (although just barely).
One thing that I like better in the manga is that they start hinting about Joe's health problems WAY earlier on than in the anime, and if you're paying attention, you can clearly see then progress over time. In the anime it almost feels like a last-minute thing since they don't really get into it until after the Hawaii arc.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 22, 2014, 12:25:20 AM
Alright, so I want to give my impressions of each arc in this series after my first run through it, and it'll be interesting to compare it to how I feel about it a few months later when I re-read/watch it again (and yes, I would gladly go through it again that soon, or possibly even sooner). Just keep in mind a few things. First of all, every ranking I give for each arc is relative to the series itself and not other series. If it were, then I'd end up giving almost EVERY single arc in the series a 10/10 because it's just that damn good to me. So if you see a 7/10 or 8/10, just know that it's only by this series' standards, and that compared to most other manga and anime, it would rank so much higher. Speaking of arcs, since this is a relatively obscure manga, there aren't any commonly agreed upon names for the story arcs by fans that I know of, so I can take the liberty of making them up for myself and drawing the boundaries where I see fit (since they can be kind of unclear at times). Finally, all rankings for stuff that comes past where the current translations of the manga are up to are going by the anime rather than the manga, so just keep that in mind.
With that said, here are my ratings:
Part I:
Doya Town Slums (8/10): This is an excellent way to start the series. It'd probably be too slow for most readers who don't have a good appreciation for setting up a story nicely, and it's not as though it has the strongest writing that this series has to offer, but what can you expect? It's just the best possible way to set up the characters, establish Joe Yabuki as the jerk-ass that he is, and it also establishes Danpei Tange as the man destined to train him. The kids are all likable companions who enlist in Joe's shenanigans, and Nishi is a great initial rival for Joe, who eventually becomes his best friend. For me, this arc covers up through to Joe's trial before he's sentenced to over a year in juvenile prison (so it includes the Tokyo Correctional House portion of the story).
Juvenile Prison (10/10)- This is where the story truly starts. I love the portrayal of the prison in this manga. The other kids really try to rough-house Joe and Nishi, and it quickly establishes itself as a facility where inmates have to look out for themselves and only the truly tough can gain enough respect from the other inmates to be left alone. Luckily Joe uses his strength to quickly dominate just about anyone who tries to oppose him....until he meets Rikiishi, who knocks him out in one punch during a failed escape attempt. This sets up one of the most memorable rivalries in the entire shounen genre, and in this arc we get a lot more exposure to characters like Danpei as he trains Joe. Nishi really proves himself to be a worthy friend to Joe, here, and the boxing matches that occur in prison are appropriately rough and gritty, but also very intense and entertaining. Yoko also becomes a more prominent character in this arc.
The Rise of Joe Yabuki (10/10)- After Joe gets out of prison, this manga gets even better. First we get to see the politics of the boxing world and how the corrupt businessmen and gym owners running Japan's boxing league all have it out for Danpei who ruined his own reputation in the past by being a drunk who constantly abused his own boxers. While it is a regretful part of his past, it is clear that Danpei has changed since then, and that they are just being corrupt ass-holes using their power to deny him a second chance by refusing to grant him a trainer's license to make his gym official and quality his boxers to take their own license exams. I won't spoil anything for anyone, but the way that Joe goes about "changing their minds" is one o the best moments in the series, and it really shows that unlike characters like Korra or Lion-O, Joe Yabuki is just as clever as he his hot-headed. The rise of Joe and Wolf to rookie stardom is great, and their match is amazingly intense. It's at this point that I knew this series would be a favorite of mine.
Rikiishi Tooru (11/10)- The build-up to this match, the actual match itself, and the aftermath are what encompass this arc, and good good is this some of the most amazing writing I have ever seen in any form of fiction. Everything from Rikiishi's intense weight-loss regimen to how this event affects both his and Joe's lives is truly some of the most captivating story-telling that I've ever had the pleasure of reading. I can't say anymore than that without spoiling it for anyone.
Part II: Square Jungle
The Fall Of Joe Yabuki (11/10)- This arc somehow manages the impossible task of carrying forward the momentum of the previous arc, and it's just as good. It's a bit misleading in the beginning, since Joe is already going through depression as he's wandering around Tokyo. The scene where he runs into his old rival Wolf who's working for the Yakuza now is a great way to start the arc, and the scene where he runs into Yoko at the night club is also memorable. Then Joe decides to try and make his comeback, and at first it seems like Joe is rising to further heights than ever before, but it doesn't take long for his fatal flaw to rear it's ugly head and nearly kill his boxing career. The following chapters where he is reduced to wandering around Japan participating in low-brow, fixed fights for washed-up boxers is really tragic stuff, but it just sets him up for yet another big come-back later on.
Carlos Rivera (10/10)- Carlos and his manager Roy are both hilarious characters, but on the more serious side of things, Rivera is the perfect motivation to kick Joe back into top gear and re-ignite his motivation to become a pro-boxer and aim for the world title. This is truly top-notch stuff.
Dragon Kim (10/10)- Once again, I won't spoil anything for anyone, here, but what Joe goes through here is reminiscent of what another character went through in an earlier arc, and it's very much poetic justice for him in this case. As for Dragon Kim, his back-story is one of the most intense and disturbing that I have ever seen for any anime character, and his fight with Joe does not disappoint in the slightest.
Hawaii (9/10)- I decided to get a little creative with this title. Sure, he goes to Hawaii which technically fits under the jurisdiction of the OPBF (at least according to this anime), but it is officially an American state, so it counts. Really-speaking, nothing very extraordinary happens in terms of plot, and Joe's actual opponent is quite forgettable. The REAL point of this arc is for Joe to finally confront the world champion by meeting him face-to-face for a real conversation, Jose Martinez. It's a lot of early build-up, but you can really tell that it's going to lead to something big.
Harimaou (7/10)- Easily the weakest part of the series, as the match felt unnecessary, but oddly enough....that's kind of the point, so in that regard it really wasn't unnecessary. Once again, it's very hard to talk about just what I mean without completely spoiling the story for you, so you'll just have to watch it for yourself. That said, it's still genuinely good stuff. It's just that it's not quite up to the usual standards of this series, but even on its own, it kills most modern shounen in terms of quality and memorability.
Jose Mendoza (11/10)- The last fight in the series, the ultimate climax, and the definitive ending....simply beautiful. Putting spoilers aside, even if I could explain the fight, no words I could come up with would do it any justice. And of course, just as important as the fight itself is what leads up to the fight, and I can't spoil that either. All I'll say is that last conversation between Yoko and Joe was a really memorable moment, and the way things wrapped up and concluded at the end couldn't have been more perfect for this kind of series, IMO. Truly an amazing ending for an amazing series, though it likely won't be up everyone's alley if you're too spoiled by more typical story-telling conventions.
I fixed my story arc titles to make them seem more official n' stuff.
And, volume 18 is up. Just 2 more to go! We're almost there, people! :shakeshakeshake:
They've been releasing a new volume every two-three weeks since February. I expect, if there are no more delays, the entire manga should be fully translated by June. :)
Volume 19 is out, and according to Hox (the scanlator), volume 20 will be out on the 27th, which is just a week from now. Even though I've already seen the ending in the anime, I can't wait to go through it again in manga form.
It'd be nice if Hox translated Kyojin no Hoshi next. He did a good job with AnJ.
It's great that the manga will finally be completely translated. I look forward to next monday.
He probably won't get to any other Takamori-written manga for a while, if ever. I believe he stated in the comments section of one of his blog posts for AnJ that he has other projects that he's working on, and only put them on hold just to finish the rest of AnJ up first. For that much, I'm pretty grateful, because if he didn't do it, we'd probably have the rest of the series untranslated for years. Now it will at least be possible to read the entire story from start to finish via the manga. In a way I kind of regret having finished the series via the anime, first. Don't get me wrong, AnJ2 was a great adaptation, but I still would have preferred finishing the story in the format that I started it with, being the manga. Had I known that the releases would be complete in just a matter of a few months, I would've waited instead.
That said, even so, it didn't ruin the impact or quality of the series nearly enough to stop it from being a favorite of mine. It's still my new favorite manga, and AnJ2 is still one of my new favorite anime, so that's really a testament to the sheer timelessness of this story as classic work of fiction.
Favorite manga of all time confirmed. Now that its finally all translated into English, nobody has an excuse not to read it.
Ah, I forgot the final volume was going to be released today. Good, time to finish my new favorite manga. :)
BTW, CX, after you finish it, this is required reading: http://hoxtranslations.blogspot.com/2014/04/many-thoughts-on-good-manga-10.html?m=1
Hox is my new fucking hero. And this easily puts my own AnJ article to shame.
That was a very insightful article. I had no idea about the series' connections to the gekiga movement and how innovative Chiba's art was at the time. I also didn't even think about the similarities between Yoko and Joe before, but he put that relationship in perspective. Not only that, but I had no idea Chiba altered Takamori's original ending to it's iconic, ambiguous form either, and that and the reasons why the ending is ambiguous and what it represents thematically are things that I don't think I could have possibly understood without the information that Hox knows. His take on the cultural relevance and analysis of the subtleties of the characters and their development does a great job illustrating just why the series is such an important, powerful work and one of the best in the medium.
His article also makes me lament not knowing japanese, since I'd love to read many of the titles he references in his article, but most of them are untranslated. Not only that, but as I've been researching series I want to read recently, I discovered many interesting titles that, sadly, have no english translation yet. It's a real shame, since I'd bet there are many classic series from the 60-70's period in particular that would likely be excellent reads. It's not like my backlog isn't already big enough as it is, but it is something that motivates me to try and learn the language, sometime.
I didn't get a chance to comment about the article, but goddamn was it incredibly well-written. I have really appreciated Hox's very natural sounding translations for this series. Most translators go for a very raw kind of sentence structure that sounds strange in English. With Hox, you could honestly mistake his dialogue for something you'd expect in an official release from Viz or another NA manga distributor. I'm so glad that he's going back to redo the first 6 volumes (which, BTW, weren't done by him).
As for the article, he hit the nail on the head with why Joe and Yoko are the 2 best characters in the manga. I really agree with him about their similarities, and how Joe hit her too cost to home when he criticized her philanthropy as nothing more than publicity to make herself feel like a good person. I also love how he explains why it's OK for Joe and Yoko to be morally gray characters and still have them be endearing. He also tried to defend Matsutaro a little bit given how much heat that anime got, which almost makes me want to give it another chance, though I still attest that Joe is a better character because his lack of moral in the beginning of the series had an actual good reason behind it, whereas Matsutaro really doesn't share the same excuse.
By far, though, the 2 points I agreed with him the most on were in regard to the character development and artwork. With the former, too many modern shounen just attribute character development to characters having major changes after a major event that relates to them, rather than having them gradually, subtly grow and mature over time. Case in point being Naruto and almost any other shounen of its ilk out there. You'll have a villain characters he'll have some bad outlook on life because of whatever cliche reason, and he'll get defeated by the hero and almost immediately become a good guy. Joe is so ahead of its time in how skillfully the character development is handled. As for the artwork, Togashi really needs to take notes, as do many other shounen mangaka. Simply explaining what a character is feeling at any given moment ruins the pleasure of viewer interpretation and the re-read value that comes with it. There are so many silent scenes in AnJ where an entire piece of narrative can be so clearly delivered without a single word of text, but rather just the facial expressions of the characters. I REALLY wish that more shounen (and even some seinen) mangaka could do this effectively.
I really want other people on this board to read this article, but unfortunately it's something that I could never recommend to anyone unless they finished the series first, so I'll have to abstain from that.
I've re-read it several times, and I'm pretty sure that AnJ volume 9 is not only my favorite volume of the series, but also of any manga or comic that I've ever read, period. The artwork is top-notch to the point where so much is communicated to the reader without the need for dialogue, and the dialogue that is there is very heartfelt and full of raw emotion. The funny thing is that there isn't a single major boxing match in the entire volume. It's purely just about the characters and reveals just how truly layered and nuanced they all are. Plus, as far as the manga goes, it's pretty much the last time that Nishi gets some good characterization focus, since he just fades into the background for most of the second half of the series.
This is also the part where Yoko starts developing into one of the best characters in the series, coming a long way from the naive rich girl that she was up to this point. It's funny how a manga from over 40 years ago has better character development for its female lead than 99% of any modern shounen series.
So, are you ever going to give your ratings for each arc, CX?
BTW i've read through the entire series twice already, and have gone tht ought my favorite parts multiple more times. It's still my favorite manga ever.
By now I've re-read most of this manga twice over (making for 3 times total), and no, I'm not joking, here. In just a year, I've already gone back to it so much because I just find the material to be that potent that it begs to be revisited.
Just like with Dragon Ball, I'm going to rank the arcs from my least favorite to favorite.
10. Harimau
9. Doya Town (Tokyo Slums)
8. Hawaii
7. Dragon Kim
6. Juvenile Prison
5. Jose Mendoza
4. Rising Star
3. Carlos Rivera
2. Rikiishi Tooru
1. The Fall of Joe Yabuki
Upon re-reads, I can say that Harimau wasn't really a bad arc, but just felt rather unecessary. That's what I like to call a "serialization filler" arc, in that it was probably just written to prolong the story as if you cut it out, it wouldn't really have much effect on the story or character development even if it was gone. Every other arc in the series was great, though, and felt necessary. Admittedly it's a bit hard to go back to the Tokyo Slums arc (and I'm not sure if this is correct, but I've seen that the town actually has a name, and it's called Doya Town), which is fun and entertaining to be sure, but upon re-reads, it clearly lacks the depth and nuance in the writing quality that all of the later arcs had. Everything else in the series is great, and I don't use the word great lightly.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on July 12, 2014, 08:53:19 PM
So, are you ever going to give your ratings for each arc, CX?
I realized I still haven't done this. Maybe I'll get to it sometime soon.
For now, though:
10. Doya Town (Tokyo Slums)
9. Harimao
8. Hawaii
7. Juvenile Prison
6. Dragon Kim
5. Rising Star
4. Jose Mendoza
3. Carlos Rivera
2. Rikishii Tooru
1. The Fall of Joe Yabuki
So, I've been re-reading this manga off and on over the past few months. Of course, it's almost unbelievable to me how my appreciation for it only grows the more that I view it as time goes by. That said, I wanted to rectify a personal little label that I gave to a particularly excellent story arc from this series.
That of course would be The Fall of Joe Yabuki arc, a title which I made up on the spot since this series is not nearly popular enough in the West to have fan-standardized names for each arc. That said, on my most recent read-through of this arc, it occurred to me that Joe Yabuki starts out at, or at least near, his lowest point. By the end of it, which I mark as the point just before he meets Yoko at her mansion, he has done a complete turn-around and has ignited a new fire and drive within himself. That's hardly what I would call "falling," and Joe really had his fall between the Rikiishi arc and the end of Part 1 of the manga.
As I had described in my write-up for this story last year, it detailed the break-down and subsequent build-up into the iconic character that Joe became known as in Japan. That's just it; by the end of this arc, Joe has, in a sense, been re-constructed as a character. Thus, I personally feel that it would be more appropriate to title this arc as The Rebirth of Joe Yabuki (or maybe "Revival" in place of Rebirth if that sounds a bit too extreme of a term to use). Perhaps a bit pretentious, I'll grant you, but it's certainly more fitting than the previous title that I gave it.
Good point. I wish either of us had considered that before we labeled it like we did in our list. :sweat:
Well, I could always go back and edit it later on, when I have the time.
So the other day, I bought the entire Deluxe Edition release of Ashita no Joe! They're hardcover and they include color pages at the beginning of each volume. Definitely worth the money! ;D
Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbUguuqXgAEEE5_?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbUkJiOWoAAY12b?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbUkJiNXQAEcj3x?format=jpg&name=large)
:huh:
Those look excellent! Really looking forward to the day that we get something similar stateside.
Super envious of you. That quality looks great!
I'm still bummed that this manga has not received an official English release. I was hoping that the popularity of Megalobox would have raised enough interest in it to give it a limited release like Akira got for those reprint collections that had the books flipped back into their original format.
I'll collect the series myself, someday, but I'll hold off for now since I've been spending a bit more than I'd like to as of late.