Animation Revelation Forum

So, for anyone who has literally gone out of their way to avoid every word that I have ever said, it should be obvious that I'm a fan of Ninja Gaiden. But no, not just a regular fan, I have a fucking obsession with these games. I figured I should point out that, while some people are naive and just let nostalgia bias their opinions too much, I'm perfectly aware with how little the 2D and 3D games have in common, but IMO the 3D games still deserve to be called NG games in terms of being spiritual 3D successors to the 2D games. In reality, the first 3D Ninja Gaiden game was never meant to be an NG game. Itagaki had planned a new action game as a brand new IP from scratch, and then someone at Tecmo asked him to slap on the Ninja Gaiden name-tag because it would make for better marketing being based off of a classic series, so he obliged. But, you know what, I'm glad, because now NG had great games in both 2D and 3D.

So, I'll start off by briefly going over what I love about the classic 2D games, but in all honesty, as anyone can tell, I'm much bigger on the 3D games because they are honestly just more fun as games for me. Now, that shouldn't give anyone the mistaken idea that I don't still love the 3D games. The first true NG game was actually and arcade beat-em-up with no story-line that shamelessly tried to compete with the much more popular Double Dragon. For what its worth, it was a solid game for its time, but can't compare to the depth of the DD games, and by today's standards its easy to fault it for some of its poor design choices. Still, it deserves credit for starting up the series and giving gamers a good experience when it came out. Also, I have to say that it had some damn good graphics for its day, and it possibly has the most intense and memorable fucking continue screen that I have ever seen in a video game, as far as the traditional arcade countdown from 10 types of screens go. In those 10 seconds you could input a coin, and in doing so you would save Ryu, because you see, the continue screen featured an animation with Ryu being tied up in ropes by the game's enemies, desperately struggling to try and get out while a circular saw slowly descended down towards his skull. The screen would flash red if you ever let it reach him. Pretty awesome stuff, overall. ;D

Now, of course, the series is most well-known for its NES games. The first NES game was certainly an outstanding game for its day, but also wasn't perfect. It did have some moments of cheap difficulty, and while Ryu had some amazing acrobatic abilities, it was frustrating that he lacked the ability to actually scale walls, and that just a single enemy attack of any variety would knock him back so much. Still, the game was fun because it was the first truly successful game of its time to be so frantically fast-paced and really make the player quickly and efficiently use all of the acrobatic skills that they had at their disposal to skillfully platform through tough levels, while also swiftly slaying any foes that dared to get in their way, or that they dared to take on. It was a formula that was just plain fun when finally mastered, and it was even fun working one's way up to mastery, but it was the 2nd game that truly brought in all of the improvements that the series really needed. In this game, Ryu could scale walls and also had some cool new power-ups, such as the cloning ability, and overall the level design felt more fluid and more inspired. There is an interesting story about my experiences with the 3rd game, and my situation with it is somewhat similar to Desensitized's experiences with DKC3, but I'll get into that at a later time.

I'll leave off at this much for now, but later I'll go into why I love the 3D games so much, and how they are truly brilliant gems. It really ticks me off at how ignorantly some people (who I can tell you obviously have never even touched the 3D NG games) insult the 3D NG games just for stupid reasons of hate towards Itagaki and Team Ninja. I'll tell you some of the main reasons right now: People are nostalgia-fags who just can't stand the thought out their favorite 2D NG classics sharing the same name with the 3D series; people hate Itagaki for dissing some games that they liked; and of course the most recent reason is because a lot of people hate how Other M isn't as good as previous Metroid games, and how it has some similarities to Ninja Gaiden, so they take their frustration out on those games.

Well, a little tid-bit of info that I want to share to all of those idiots is that Ninja Gaiden Black is the NG series equivalent of what the Metroid Prime Trilogy is to the Metroid series. All any of those idiots would have to do to see that is actually try the fucking game.

**Ahem**

But of course I'll stop myself before I go into a rant.....

At any rate, I'll go into just why I love NGB so much, next time, and what qualities make it my personal favorite game of all time.

Longest post on the board so far. *we need an applaud smiley*

I found the original X-Box NG at Gorilla Games for $10. Since I don't think I'll find Black again soon, I might hit that up after I finish the games I already got for Christmas.

Sure thing. Its still a great game, and honestly the general consensus is that Black actually makes things a bit harder than the original game, if anything, unless you play on Ninja Dog mode, which is fine as long as you don't mind Ayane making you her bitch and forcing you to wear a feminine accessory throughout the duration of the game. :sly:

The only problem with the original game is that its not as polished as NGB, though I would have actually recommended it over NGB if XBL was still available from the original XBOX, as you could have downloaded the Hurricane Packs for free, and NGB is essentially NG with both of the Hurricane Packs already downloaded, minus the Intercept ability which kind of broke the game (as in it basically let the player cheat their way through most of the game's challenging moments).

Anyways, the only real setback in terms of gameplay is that you don't get the Lunar Staff in the original version of NG, which is fine since its not like it was that useful in the 1st game to begin with, and also you can't charge up attacks manually, but that only proved to be a truly useful feature at one particular point in the game, and you'll still do just fine without it (its probably better since it'll force you to learn how to charge attacks using essence, which is a necessary skill, anyways). You also get one less difficulty, but I don't count that as a setback since, somehow, I doubt that you intended to play this game on Master Ninja mode, anyways. :P

The original version of the game also lacks Mission Mode, but once again I doubt that you would have invested in that either, anyways

So, yeah, I encourage that you go ahead and play any version of the game that you can find, because whichever version it is, its still an amazing game. ;)

While that post was long, it was nothing in comparison to your Yu Yu Hakusho review on TV.com. :P

As for Ninja Gaiden, I liked it on Nintendo. I still plan on playing the new series, so don't think I forgot your recommendation. ;)

However, I have made a promise to myself. And I know you've said that the first Sigma game isn't that much inferior, but I have convinced myself that I WILL play the games as they were on the XBox, even if it means borrowing my cousin's XBox 360. :P

Quote from: talonmalon333 on December 28, 2010, 12:37:21 AM
While that post was long, it was nothing in comparison to your Yu Yu Hakusho review on TV.com. :P

That wasn't a review, that was a goddamn novel. :P

That was long as hell, but if you want novel-length, check out my EEnE review.

I'm still recovering from that.

So, E-K, how is the arcade Ninja Gaiden game? I've never played that one. :shit:

Beat Ninja Gaiden Black on Hard mode to unlock it. ;)

Anyways, its something that I'd call a decent game for its time. Its kind of fun to play for a little while, but honestly it hasn't aged all too well, especially when compared to other beat-em-ups of its era, like Double Dragon (which was the original Arcade NG's biggest influence). Its still a competent beat-em-up game, though, so its worth playing through at least once, IMO. Its really easy to abuse certain attacks, though, such as Ryu's Guillotine Throw (which I thought was kind of cool to see brought back in the 3D games as a tribute to the Arcade game). Ryu mostly fights with his fists in the arcade game, but a certain power-up allows him to use the Dragon Sword for a brief period of time, which is pretty cool since it instantly kills enemies in that game.

Oh, BTW, if anyone owns the original version of Ninja Gaiden for the XBOX, you can unlock the SNES trilogy version of the 3 NES games by collecting all 50 Golden Scarabs in the game, in which case Muramasa trades you the game's cartridge for them, and then you can go into Han's Bar and insert in the cartridge to unlock the games (yeah, that thing actually had a purpose after all :P ).

How about the Master System game?

I've honestly never had the oppurtunity to play that game myself, but old-school NG fans tell me that it was a descently-made game, but was fairly boring to play due to its lack of challenge (and without the challenge, the old-school NG formula's simplicity can be pretty dull).

As for a really obscure NG title, does anyone actually know that there was an NG game on the Game Gear? The game looks like shit, though. There was also an unfinished NG beat-em-up on the Sega Genesis that was never officially released, but a Beta version of it is available online somewhere.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Game Gear game is shit. It looks worse than the Master System game despite the Game Gear basically being a portable Master System.

I mean, compare:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhg101.kontek.net%2Fninjagaiden%2Fgamegear-1a.png&hash=0ebd2715ee875c3b72d10dd430393ae4e0c27497)

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhg101.kontek.net%2Fninjagaiden%2Fmastersystem-7.png&hash=2e93c9388f2620ee20ed57b84a9d0ebd4cb3f3c5)

That's just embarrassing.

That fucking skeleton. :lol:

So, this time I thought I'd just touch up on Ninja Gaiden 3 a little bit. Similar to Desensitized revisiting DKC3 and realizing it was better than he gave it credit for, I revisited a different version of NG3 and realized that it was much better than the crap-fest version that I played, and even the other version I played was still not the definitive version of the game, as it had many problems of its own.

Now, one thing that bugs me is that when reviewers or other people reference the NES NG games, they often reference them based on nostalgia and clearly haven't played them in a long time, or maybe not even at all (which is what I think in some cases). Now, for any U.S. NG fan who only has access to any U.S. versions of the original NG games (including myself), NG3 on the NES was a travesty. The first 2 NG games functioned mostly on memory-based difficulty, like most difficult NES games did at the time. The reason that the first 2 games got away with it was because they were fair to the players in terms of giving them unlimited continues, allowing the player to keep their progress in the game no matter how many times they died as long as they were willing to keep playing. For some reason the Japanese developers got the impression that American gamers loved a challenge more than Japan did, so they decided to make a special harder version of NG3 to be released in the U.S., and to be honest, that in and of itself would have been perfectly fine. Unfortunately, they half-assed the hell out of their job of making NG3 harder, and unfortunately what was actually quite a good game suffered a lot for it.

For starters, they took out the unlimited continues AS WELL as the password system that the Japanese version had, and limited American players to only 5 continues. In addition to that, they idiotically modified the U.S. version to have Ryu take double the normal amount of damage from enemies, to the point in which having a half-full health meter in NG3 was considered a low-health state in the American version of the game, because only a good 1 or 2 more hits could easily kill Ryu.

However, when I finally got around to playing the SNES trilogy which ported each of the 3 games, I found out that the SNES version released in the U.S. contained a port of the original Japanese version of NG3. Now while the SNES games had some problems in terms of glitches and even lag (yeah, its pretty sad when an SNES game actually lags from too much activity happening on-screen at once....I don't know how the developers managed to miss that), the SNES version of NG3 was still infinitely superior to the American NES version. When I played this version, looking at the gameplay from a fair standpoint, NG3 honestly has the workings of what could be considered the best of the NES NG trilogy if it didn't have those technical issues bogging it down as well.

I mean, think about it, here are what it had going for it that the first 2 games didn't:

-Ryu can now hang from ledges and can scale up a ledge without having to use a complicated jump mechanic to do it
-Ryu doesn't fall back nearly as much when hit by an enemy, and doesn't get knocked back into the nearest groundless area automatically
-You can now see the power-ups in containers, so you don't need to have to stupidly memorize what each container has in the game so that you don't lose a special ability that you like to have on you by accidentally picking up another one
-The level design is honestly better with more variety to it, including new sections in which Ryu scales up rather than simply going from left to right or vice-versa
-Ryu can now upgrade his Ki slot so that you can hold more ammo for whatever special ability or item that he has
-Ryu's sword extension special ability add-on is one of the most useful new additions to the game, and it doesn't even use up any sort of ammunition
-The bosses were more fun with less bull-shit tactics, but some were also kind of dull for being far too easy

Overall, the original game was clearly much easier than the first 2 the way it was originally intended to be played, but was also more fun at the parts that were done perfectly right because it relies much less on memorization-based difficulty and much more on just fun gameplay mechanics, with a perfect combination of both platforming and action. The only real negatives that I could sum up for the version that I played aside from its glitches and that one instance of lag would be:

-Weaker music than the first 2 games (but it still had a great track in its own right, and even it has some great stand-out themes that could be as good as the best ones from any other NG game)
-Ryu's jump mechanic was stupidly changed, specifically in terms of its physics and Ryu now floated down slowly, but that was more of a matter of getting used to as it didn't make the game cheap in any sort of way, though it did make the game feel like it played a bit slower in comparison to the first 2, and part of the charm of the NG games are their intense speed and pacing relative to other action games
-The clone power-up was removed (I loved that power-up and saw absolutely no justifiable reason to remove it in the 3rd installment of the game)

Other people would complain about the story being weaker than the first 2 games because it was "too ridiculous," but I find it laughable that anyone finds a different in quality between the 3 NES games in terms of story-line, because all 3 had ridiculous story-lines that made no sense. I fail to see how NG3 stood out at all from the first 2 games in this regard. My only guess is that most people remember the games when playing them at young ages, and at the time NG1 and 2 were among the only few games with cut-scenes, to it was a cool thing for that particular period of time relative to other games. People probably overlooked how nonsensical the stories were and only remember them through nostalgia, but by the time the 3rd game came people were a little older and cut-scenes were now a more common thing in games with some games having done it much better than NG games by that point in time, so people could finally see that the story aspect of NG wasn't that great, but only applied that knowledge to the 3rd game's story and let those of the first 2 slide purely based on nostalgia. Because, honestly, other than that you can't honestly tell me anything to really differentiate the story from one NES NG game as being more or less poorly written than any of the others.

So, overall, I found the version that was closer to the originally intended version of NG3 to be a worthy entry into the series, and a good end to the original trilogy in terms of gameplay. It really makes me interested in wanting to seek out the original Japanese version of the game someday and play that one, with the least amount of technical problems. It could end up being my favorite NG game in that case.

Overall, while I have to admit I used to mindlessly generalize the game as being terrible, I now see it as having the unfortunate fate of having a terrible U.S. release. The original version of the game truly is a fun experience, though, and despite being easier is just as much fun as the first 2 games for the right reasons.

Next time I get a chance to post, I'll probably talk about why I love the first 3D game, and why I consider the 3D NG games in general to be better games than the NES games, but subjectively and objectively speaking.

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention the fact that NG3 has no birds to deal with. That alone makes it worth playing.

Someone needs to hack 1 and remove the birds and fix the checkpoints. Then I would really have a hard time choosing between which game to play.

The worst thing about the 1st game is that you know that the developers were deliberately just being ass-holes when sending you back 3 levels after dying to a single one of the final bosses just once. I mean, they went so far as to admit that they discovered that feature as a glitch and could have easily fixed it but decided not to because they thought it'd be more "fun" for players to have to deal with that bull-shit.

Seriously, how sadistic can you get?

You know, hardcore fans of the classic games would hate to hear this, but for as much as they want to rag on Itagaki for not making his "3D" NG games play anything like the "2D" ones, the truth is that he at least had a much more balanced game with fair difficulty than any of the classic games, whether they want to accept that or not.

Now, I find it necessary to defend my position on why I personally find this game to still be ahead of its time in many regards, but since I'm lazy I'll only give 2 main reasons as to why.

Now, I LOVE the beat-em-up genre in general, which is my favorite sub-genre of action games. And I especially love hack n' slash games, which is my favorite sub-genre of beat-em-up games (and incidentally the only one that exists). And of all action games in general (and hell, all games ever, but for now we'll keep the focus on action games), NGB is clearly my favorite game ever. That's no secret to anyone who knows me.

But, let me just briefly elaborate (for once) WHY exactly it is my favorite game among the other beat-em-ups. It excels at 2 things that make it stand out to me. For one thing, I like how the combat, still to this day, is simply more fluid than any other action game around. Now, I LOVE DMC and Bayonetta from what I've gotten to play of them. They have a wild and fun over-the-top nature, and for that matter I know I'd also love games like God Hand, MadWorld, and No More Heroes. But by contrast, Ninja Gaiden doesn't feature nearly that level of craziness....or rather, it is pretty over-the-top, but in its own way. To be quite honest, I actually like the fact that Ninja Gaiden's combat is more grounded. What I mean is that NG's combat is still highly unrealistic yet the movements flow and have a feeling of a believability to them. I just like how the whole physics of the game mechanics works, in that everything Ryu does in terms of how he moves and fights feels like it has both rhyme and reason to it. Sure, he doesn't magically pull out some weird torture device to do awesome finisher moves to enemies like Bayonetta does, nor does he have so many bad-ass ways to maul enemies to pieces like Jack does (the dude from MadWorld), but its for the reason that his movements are so much more limited in terms of being believable in fluidity, yet feel so limitless in execution of the combat, that I find NG's handle on melee-based combat to be the best around in gaming.

And, the other reason is a rather simple one, but how exactly should I put it?....Well, OK, let me say this. I highly respect Hideki Kamiya. I really do. And for what its worth I didn't mind him saying that he didn't care about Ninja Gaiden games and even refused to acknowledge them as worthy action games (even though he admitted that he never actually played any of them). Stuff like that doesn't really tick me off, otherwise I'd eternally hate Tomonobu Itagaki if I let comments that developers said get to me. I also think that he did succeed at creating the best action game in Bayonetta....well, 2nd best, actually. You see, I do think that even Kamiya could learn one important thing about the evolution of hack n' slash games, despite being responsible for creating the genre himself. Bayonetta, DMC, and a bunch of other hack n' slash games for that matter could all benefit to some degree by incorporating an element that, so far, only the NG games have really seemed to go with (and that that its mostly just NGB, as even NG2 disappointingly kind of strayed a bit away from this aspect of gameplay).

Now, you know how F.E.A.R. is widely regarded as the game with THE best AI in any FPS game ever. Well, to me, in regards to AI and how they should respectively be programmed in terms of the game of their genre, I feel that NGB has the best AI in a beat-em-up game, ever. I mean, in the other games in the genre the enemies and bosses certainly aren't pushovers, but they are all clearly designed to give the players openings. In Ninja Gaiden....well, you REALLY get the feeling that those fuckers called enemies want Ryu dead, at any cost. And that may not mean much if I just say it, so let me just show you what I mean:

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jIriYhKsFI) is gameplay from God of War 3- Cool

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCY32Ouz8E8&feature=related) is gameplay from Devil May Cry 3- Awesome

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDFTwy5LeA) is gameplay from Bayonetta- Amazing

Here (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/ninjagaidenblack/video_player.html?id=JXw3lDH45bgNvzbb&tag=videos%3Btitle%3B18) is gameplay from Ninja Gaiden Black- I believe I just climaxed....So, does anyone else see a difference compared to the rest?

Now, I don't know about you guys, but that shit just gives me a fucking adrenaline rush.

Alright, in all seriousness, this is just my personal reasons for liking NG the best. I know I'm one of the few, but it really doesn't get enough credit for what it truly excels at in aspects that other games just don't choose to focus on at all. That's just me, though.

This (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/114/1145776p1.html) article has both potentially good and bad things to say about what NG3 might end up being like.

Also, is Hayashi calling the first 2 of the 3D NG games outdated? He uses the term "old" to describe them, which I agree with if he means that they are old-school in design, but if he means dated, then I disagree wholeheartedly. In some regards they may show age, but in terms of combat and the key components of an action game, I say that they are both far ahead of their time in terms of execution of their gameplay mechanics.

The one thing I kind of liked was how it seems that the enemy count will be reduced in this game in favor of making you work more to earn your kill by having fewer but much tougher and more challenging enemies (as in, more like NGB than NG2, if done right). But then he gets into all this bull-crap about "realistic" cutting and shit, and NG games aren't about realism (at least not in that regard), and it just seems like a poor excuse for him to slow down the combat for the casual players to be able to deal with. The problem with that is that slowing down the combat too much will take away the main thing that makes the combat in the 3D NG games so much fun to begin with, which is its intense level of speed. Eh, its reasons like this for why I hate the idea of Hayashi being in charge of new NG games,a nd in that regard I don't trust the current Team Ninja to make a competent action game on their own, and I especially don't trust Tecmo's reliability as a game publishing company.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 30, 2011, 12:33:22 PM
This (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/114/1145776p1.html) article has both potentially good and bad things to say about what NG3 might end up being like.

This sounds... kind of gross, to be honest.

Anyway, I agree with you about NGB having excellent AI, especially for the genre. It's always refreshing to see enemies use tactics to try and bring you down rather than just rushing you in a straight line or hiding behind cover.

Quote from: Foggle on January 30, 2011, 12:36:11 PM

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 30, 2011, 12:33:22 PM
This (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/114/1145776p1.html) article has both potentially good and bad things to say about what NG3 might end up being like.

This sounds... kind of gross, to be honest.

If you're talking about that whole "feeling of cutting" crap that Hayashi is spewing out, then I agree. I mean, I'm sure its not just me who actually likes hack n' slash games for being over the top and unrealistically "smooth" in terms of slicing up enemies. To me it seems like this whole shit that he's bringing up, aside from slowing down the action considerably (which would already be a huge setback to the game in and of itself), will make the next NG game feel more like a whole game based off of the chainsaw type of kill in Gears of War. While that type of kill is fun to do once in a while in that game, I don't want a whole fucking game based on slowly cutting up enemies and having to "feel the weight of flesh." In another game that's less action oriented (maybe like in a survival horror game with melee-based combat), that sort of mechanic might be fitting, but in a Ninja Gaiden game that just seems plain stupid.

QuoteAnyway, I agree with you about NGB having excellent AI, especially for the genre. It's always refreshing to see enemies use tactics to try and bring you down rather than just rushing you in a straight line or hiding behind cover.

Yeah, I like how the AI play to the strengths of the game's combat and how it forces you to play a bit strategically, or on pure skill and reflexes if you're good enough since the game is less about combo-ing your enemies into the air and more about skillfully evading them and finding the right opportunity to attack. Needless to say I like both types of gameplay quite a lot, but surprisingly enough I actually prefer the one that forces you to evade and use as much defense as offense over the one in which you are just mainly being offensive.

Yeah, this sounds more sadistic than hardcore. (This from the guy who replaced all the blood in NG 2 with pink disco lights?) I guess we'll see how it plays out; it might work well, after all.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on January 30, 2011, 12:50:25 PM
Yeah, I like how the AI play to the strengths of the game's combat and how it forces you to play a bit strategically, or on pure skill and reflexes if you're good enough since the game is less about combo-ing your enemies into the air and more about skillfully evading them and finding the right opportunity to attack. Needless to say I like both types of gameplay quite a lot, but surprisingly enough I actually prefer the one that forces you to evade and use as much defense as offense over the one in which you are just mainly being offensive.

This reminds me of something I hate about most hack n slash games, like, say, Monster Hunter. They want you to use strategy to beat your enemies, but your attacks and combos drag out for long periods of time and, even when you aren't mid-attack, the dodging is extremely hard to pull off (I don't remember if you could block in that game, but if you could, it was absolutely worthless). Pretty much every boss is a damage sponge and can off you in a couple of hits. There's also a time limit, and you can't pause the game. I'll get a lot of flack for this, but the game's slow pace and insurmountable difficulty just puts me to sleep. I know that it is technically possible to become good at the game, but I just don't have the resolve to try, especially when I could be playing something fast and exciting like NG or DMC instead.

Being strategic is both more gratifying and more plausible in fast-paced games like Ninja Gaiden. Every stylish kill brings me satisfaction rather than relief.

Well, yeah, one of the things I like about NG that I haven't noticed too much in other games is that you can often-times use your environment to your advantage. Like, for example, at one point in chapter 2 of NG2 when you're fighting in a courtyard, you can position yourself behind a well-placed tree that blocks/obscures the view of the archers on the other side. The archers will stay where they are and for the most part won't be able to hit you from the position that they are angled at, whereas the melee weapon ninjas will rush in and try to attack you, allowing you to take them out without worrying about getting shot from off-screen, and then going to deal with the archers themselves after the rest of the enemies are dealt with. Another example of a good strategy in Chapter 11 in which you can take out the archers up on the archer towers and then platform up to one of those towers, and then the plethora of IS ninjas that spawn and attack you after that have to jump up like that as well, but can only come in one at a time, allowing you to take them out easily (and the rest of the IS ninjas can't hit you since the tower perfectly shields you from oncoming projectile attacks. I really like that element of gameplay.

And, I agree, I just can't get into slow-paced hack n' slash games. I mean, in some cases they can be extremely fun if they give you a ton of ways to kill enemies and stuff (such as in MadWorld), but in games like Ninja Blade or Dante's Inferno, the combat just feels so slow-paced and dull, with very little variety to it.

Seems Hayashi is all for the blood now. (http://www.destructoid.com/gdc-11-ninja-gaiden-3-unmask-teaser-trailer--195282.phtml)

I find it funny how he criticized Itagaki for making NG2 too violent and now he's essentially marketing NG3 purely off of blood and gore. Fucking hypocrite....

The trailer does kind of piss me off, though. Now it'll just draw in more attacks from NG-haters about how this series is "for brain-dead players who just want a mindless gore fest with boobies in it." :oo:

Oh well, at any rate, being the attentive NG-fanatic that I am, I immediately noticed that Ryu wasn't using his Dragon Sword to sword-fuck whatever poor enemy he decided to strike when they were down....multiple times, over and over again. In fact, he didn't even have his DS with him. Instead he is using a particularly cool weapon that he got from a certain someone in NG2. I'll give bonus points to Foggle if he knows what I'm talking about. :joy:

I don't really remember. :whuh: I need to go back through that game soon.

Its like....the last weapon that you get in the game. After you beat Genshin for the 4th time he gives it to you and finally admits his defeat before he dies....you disappoint me, Foggle....:unimpressed:....

STOP! SHITSTORM TIME! (http://www.destructoid.com/ninja-gaiden-producer-thinks-bayonetta-is-old-news-196385.phtml)

Choice quotes:

Quote from: HayashiNinja Gaiden II is already outdated

Quote from: HayashiBayonetta is old, game design wise, already

Quote from: HayashiDifficulty level is not the main element we are focusing on

Quote from: Hayashiwe are fine not focusing on difficulty level. We don't care.

Bayonetta has sold millions. I guess people like "dated" design more than he realizes.

Ninja Gaiden Black is still my favorite action game of all-time, I really enjoy Bayonetta, and NG2 isn't perfect but what has Hayashi himself ever made -you know, "himself," without remaking Itagaki's game - that "out-dates" it, or any other game, for that matter?

You want to know what pisses me off the most about this statement? For all of his talking about wanting to cater to the fans, he probably just pissed 99% of them off with his "we don't care about the difficulty" statement. That, and his comments on Bayonetta will now attract even more unfair flaming towards the 3D NG games (the good ones, at least), no doubt easily causing the NG fan-base even more annoyance in dealing with haters, in that regard.

Oh well, fuck NG3. I'm happy with my "outdated" NGB and NG2 as it is. But thanks anyways, Hayashi. :sly:

Here's an interesting discussion question:

What do you guys think are sound complaints about the 3D NG games? And by contrast, what do you think are unfair or biased complaints about the series?

An example for the latter question would be of people complaining about the fact that the new games aren't at all like the NES games in terms of how they play (which is retarded because of course they'd have to play much differently as modern 3D games), but also in terms of not really having anything to do with the story of the NES games (which I personally never cared about because the story is shit in any NG game, though ironically I think the 1st Ninja Gaiden on the XBOX actually had a relatively decent story compared to the NES games and especially NG2 for the XBOX360).

Also, I've always wondered what people here think about Itagaki. Does the guy get more hate than he deserves or is it completely justified?

I'll answer this question right away, and I'll even go so far as to claim this as pretty much fact no matter how much anyone wants to argue:

Itagaki is cocky and has an arrogant attitude? And you know what, so does just about every other popular game developer out there, including people like Kamiya among Japanese developers (who does make great games and is probably a better designer) and Cliff Blezinski, and a bunch of other designers who make bold claims about their games. Miyamoto and Tim Schafer are perhaps the only 2 modest game developers that I know of.

To be honest, though, anyone with any common sense in the business should be more like that as opposed to not showing any confidence, as after all if you're not confident in your products than why should other people be? Here is what makes Itagaki different from the rest, though. Way back in 2000 the makers of Tekken insulted DOA for no real reason, but since Tekken is a more loved fighting series on the whole in terms of better mechanics or whatever, people felt it was justified. Itagaki retaliated by saying that Tekken was shit and then people hated him, and consequently Team Ninja ever since then, and from that time whether other people realize it or not there has always been bias against him that has spread, since occasionally he will insult other games (like Heavenly Sword....and who wouldn't get pissed at him for insulting such a "brilliant" game that deserves all the praise in the world :D ). Also, to be perfectly honest, I'm pretty sure Itagaki is smarter than he lets on, in that he knows that talking the way he does will get a rise out of people attracting more attention to him and by consequence giving his game more exposure, which is a pretty smart move, since apparently even if people hate him they still buy his games (and trust me, I know a lot of people who are fans of DOA and NG who love those games but despite Itagaki himself).

To be honest, though, people always conveniently ignore the numerous times when he's not an ass-hole, which is actually 90% of the time when he's acting completely normal. I suppose it doesn't matter to anyone that he has praised games like God of War (which surprises even me) and cited Ocarina of Time as one of his favorite games and biggest influences in developing the 3D Ninja Gaiden games, as well as Virtua Figher as his primarily influence to develop fighting games.

In terms of whether he can back up his bold claims, I'd say its up to opinions. I never cared for his DOA games, myself, but if they have managed to get the high review scores that they have gotten and have each sold millions, obviously they can't be that terrible, and must mean more to some people. As for the NG games, though, I would argue that they are clear proof that this guy knows how to make a great action game, personally.

Anyways, those are my thoughts on the guy. Is he arrogant? Yes, but in all fairness I can find just as many examples of various other developers being just as arrogant. What I think matters is whether he can justify his arrogance through great games, in which even just NGB alone is enough for me to make a good case for him.

Oh, and one more question:

How do you guys feel that the 3D NG games stack up to other hack n' slash games, and also action games in general?

I'll answer this one myself pretty briefly:

They certainly haven't changed anything like how DMC1 created a whole new genre (or what I still call a sub-genre/class), but in all honesty I feel more games should follow some of NG's better points, such as the combat and actually having intelligent enough enemies to try and actually kill the player rather than just standing around and waiting to get offed by a combo.

Also, other games need to follow how NGB does harder difficulty settings. Seriously, those difficulties that come after you get done with Normal mode are really what put that game above so many others for me.

I think if I had to look at things as objectively as possible (though, no matter what anyone else says, these matters are almost entirely subjective), then Bayonetta would probably be the best hack n' slash game so far, but even then I'd still argue that NGB is objectively superior to most other hack n' slash games even out today in terms of both its combat, design, and content. Maybe I'd have to rank God of War higher, though, just because it has better graphics and story or something like that, and DMC because it helped pave the way for other hack n' slash games.

But in terms of both challenge and fun, NG is honestly my favorite.

Since nobody else in interested in answering any of those questions, I'll ask a simpler one:

What do you guys think of Team Ninja's "apparent" decision to finally cave in and break the series's age-old traditional difficulty to be more accessible to the casual gamers out there? And by this, I don't just mean if you personally think its stupid or brilliant or are indifferent to it (though, by all means I encourage you to share your own personal thoughts about it), but also if you think it will really help make for a "better" game, or at least a more successful game in terms or reviews and sales.

To be fair, I'm sure that even Hayashi wouldn't be so stupid as to not include harder difficulties for the more hardcore fans of the series, so its not like the entire game will be easy, but its still a big change. That is to say that, in the past while Team Ninja had easier difficulties like Acolyte mode in NG2, it was made so that it would be easier for the more veteran players while still being just challenging enough for newcomers to the series (but apparently most newcomers found it too challenging). In this case, it seems like Team Ninja is dead-set on making an easy mode as easy as possible so that newcomers can breeze through it.

As for my thoughts, I personally couldn't care less as to whether it had a truly easy mode to it for those that want an easier experience, just so long as they actually included the harder difficulties for the veteran players. That said, whether they do or not is not even my main concern, as I still have little faith in this game actually turning out to be all that good at this current point in time, based on Hayashi's track record as a game developer so far.

All they need to do to make an action game "more accessible" is to offer multiple difficulty levels while making the default difficulty selection relatively easy.

Why easy? Because the current generation of gamers want to breeze through the game and feel like they are awesome. BUT they can't lower the difficulty to easy for some pride related reasons (there were surveys conducted on this, IIRC) as that's simply no good for them! The easy solution would be to make a NG game like the other two, then lower the difficulty to Ninja Dog and make that the default difficulty while having the proper difficulty levels still there for everyone else.

They don't need to make things "easier", all the common gamer wants is the illusion that they are good. You don't need to dumb the levels or enemies down to do that, just make the default difficulty really easy for the casuals while leaving the real difficulty untouched for everyone else.

I actually think Kamiya should have done that for Viewtiful Joe, as the game got a bad rap because of Adult difficulty being such a kick in the balls to new players who couldn't select Kids difficulty for some retarded reason. Simply put, give the illusion to the player and carry on like normal otherwise.

I pretty much agree with that sentiment, but its worth pointing out that in the case of Ninja Gaiden II a lot of gamers were infuriated because most of them found that even Acolyte (which is the game's "easy" mode) was too hard for them. The thing is, I actually never tried Acolyte mode until long after I beat the game on Master Ninja mode. Upon playing it, while I could maybe see that a newcomer would have some difficulty, its really not a bad difficulty level at all for new players. I believe that the problem is that it still required a bit of a learning curve and most casual players went into the game with the God of War mentality that you could get away with button mashing in the lower difficulty levels....and to be honest you sort of can get away with button mashing on that mode, but the problem for them was that it still forced the player to learn some basic skills in order to progress, such as utilizing blocking and the dash maneuver at the right times, and learning that some of the bigger enemies have resistance to staggering (so in other words just don't try to combo them when they are in animations in which you know you can't stun them, and just dodge or block them until you can stagger them again). Its really not very complex at all, but for some reason when a lot of gamers find an initial challenge, their first instinct is to find a way to blame it on the game, and unfortunately while NG2's enemies certainly aren't cheap for the most part (they are definitely fair on the lower difficulties, no matter what BS anyone spews out), it does admittedly have a flawed camera, but people took this notable flaw and exaggerated it to be much worse than it really was and claimed that the game took cheap shots all because they couldn't learn some simple tactics.

I think that's the problem. The 3D NG games, even at their easiest, still require a basic use of strategy over mindless button-mashing (and once again, you can still mash buttons in a sense, but you are expected to use some other common skills as well), and most modern gamers had a hard time accepting that style of gameplay.

What I find really odd, though, is how much the mentality on difficult games changed over such a short period of time. What I mean is that the first 3D Ninja Gaiden on the XBOX actually got PRAISED for its level of challenge and difficulty, but was noted as being completely fair, and the game garnered in some high review scores for its rewarding feeling of accomplishment for overcoming the difficulty, with NGB still being the highest rated hack n' slash game to date (according to game rankings), and that was only 4 years before NG2 came out. To be fair, critics didn't totally pan NG2, as it still got pretty decent review scores overall (I think it averaged out to either a solid 8 or an 8.1, or something in-between that, in terms of its average review score), but what I find troubling is that critics so readily embraced Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 for its lower difficulty level alone, saying that it made it a better game (obviously none of them ever played NGS2's version of Master Ninja mode, which is just as difficult as in the original version but for MUCH worse reasons). Stuff like that is what really ticks me off.

I think Kamiya got the difficulty thing down right with Bayonetta, though. While admittedly I haven't had the opportunity to play that much of the game above its default difficulty setting since I still don't own it, from what I have played its normal setting is mostly pretty easy for beginners, whereas its harder difficulties are a good step up in challenge while still mostly keeping things in fair play.

Ninja Gaiden 3 info:

60 frames per second.
Blood is back.
Difficulty level won't be toned down for casual gamers.
There will be both competitive and cooperative modes. One or both will support up to 8 players.
The store is gone. Weapons will upgrade over time.
Greater emphasis on story.
Co-op/versus
8 players

Is this also coming to 360?

Yeah, it was already announced a little while back that it would be multiplatform (confirmed for both the XBOX360 and PS3, which is probably the best decision for KoeiTecmo to make).

I'm still waiting for gameplay footage. I don't give a shit about anything Hayashi says unless he can actually prove that he can make great gameplay. If the gameplay demo at E3 showcases improvement of the core mechanics and adds in sections that take place on a 2D plane that are reminiscent of the classic NES games, then I'll take back everything I said about Hayashi and his lack of talent as a developer....the only problem is that's not going to happen. Seriously....does Ninja Gaiden even NEED a multiplayer mode? I still don't think this guy knows what the hell he's doing, yet he claims he knows what fans want (funny, since I don't ever recall anyone even asking for multiplayer).

Quote from: Desensitized on May 25, 2011, 02:13:12 PM
The store is gone. Weapons will upgrade over time.

:wth:....This game better still give you the option to choose how you upgrade your weapons, since carefully picking and managing which weapons to upgrade was a big part of the previous NG games.

Ninja Gaiden 3 better be good.

On a sidenote, Shinobi 3DS scans just leaked from Nintendo Power and its pretty much what I want from a ninja game. It's got a double jump with platforming, crazy action set pieces, and apparently has good combat (they made Web Of Shadows DS, which has a seemingly great combo system), and is all just as fast paced as the original games.

Of course, it's 2.5D and all instead of 3D, but its just such a SIMPLE concept to grasp that I can't imagine Hayashi screwing this up unless he really doesn't know what he's doing.

The thing is, Hayashi just doesn't strike me as creative enough to do something like that. Let me be honest, though, even if this was still a fully 3D NG game, I wouldn't mind if he can really nail down the gameplay. After all, NGB is my favorite action game ever and its fully in 3D, and to me its proof that you can make 3D melee based combat and controls that are just as good as any great 2D action game. That said, I would LOVE a blend of those 2 gameplay elements. Not only would it make for some great variety, but Hayashi would probably boost the review scores since even a lot of reviewers these days seem to really love the nostalgic value of old-school style action games and platformers.

However, as things stand right now, I'll be surprised enough if the gameplay manages to be just as good if not superior to the first 2 games in terms of its gameplay, even if its all still in 3D without those 2.5D segments. Is it possible for it to turn out to be a great game with Hayashi working on it: Well, I certainly won't say no to that without having seen what the gameplay is like, but as things are right now, I'm not exactly too optimistic about it.

As far as Shinobi goes, my ideal Shinobi game would be a 2/2.5D side-scroller like the original Master System and Genesis games, but with some mechanics implemented from the 3D games, such as the warp-dash ability which I still think is probably the best thing ever implemented into a game that had the name Shinobi in it. Of course, I still consider the 2D and 3D games to be 2 completely different series altogether, but even people who hate the 3D games still see fit to compare them and count the 3D ones as Shinobi games, so I'm just giving my honest opinion of how I'd want to blend the best of both game series.

At the very least, Tecmo should try to cash in on nostalgia with a 2D Ninja Gaiden on the 3DS. They could even call it Ninja Gaiden 4 (for the lulz) and get someone like WayForward or Treasure to make it if they are so inclined.

I would love to see more 3D action games implement sidescrolling, though. It lends itself well to certain set pieces better than 3D (and vice versa), and would add a lot of variety. It certainly kept me engaged during Sonic Colors and certain segments of Super Mario Galaxy 2.

But then, Tecmo is missing out on a lot of obvious stuff going on in the gaming world like the 2D revival. The death of Monster rancher and their refusal to rely on any non-TN or Musou game is getting beyond old.

Well, Tecmo is already a dying company and they aren't willing to take risks, and would rather just play it safe with games that they at least know will well moderately well for them. The problem is, while a risk could kill them, it could also save them big time if it pays off. If they keep going the way they are going, they will just last as a completely mediocre to shit quality company as they die out at a slower rate.

BTW, I found some scans of NG3:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdTHIo.jpg&hash=f61f1f66764494bcfbefae8418920644cafaf7fd)

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFa8K5.jpg&hash=372e933a37a0c7170503afa99e2be0b151d7157b)

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FapUdZ.jpg&hash=30fadc8eba2ed620de8b2b53ced2cf538de82e32)

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fq0dzS.jpg&hash=619607d9d1ee955d5e0288d8d5461de9ffcf74f9)

It....Looks like NG2. Well, I'm not saying that's necessarily a terrible thing, but so far, from what I can tell from these few pictures, the supposed gameplay and graphics look like they come straight out of NG2. For all Hayashi has carried on about how different the gameplay will be, it looks exactly the same from what I can tell. Maybe he'll prove me wrong at E3, but from these scans, it just looks like they are really trying to play it safe with the gameplay, granted that its better than totally fucking it up, but if it were Itagaki, the gameplay would take a huge step forward and it wouldn't come off looking like the same game as its predecessor.

On a side-note, I am kind of glad to see a city setting there. At least the level design looks like it will still pay homage to the old-school NES games in terms of the evironments that you fight in (which is to say that they are all completely ridiculous if this features Ryu traveling all around the world again; which I honestly kind of like).

As long as it features the traditional city rooftop battling that is a Ninja Gaiden staple, then all is good.

They could probably tone the blood down, though. Blood is all well and good, but almost looks like it could get distracting or block your view because of how much there is.

Nah, That won't be a problem. The screen-shots just purposely zoom in the camera angle (it was the same with NG2). The camera is zoomed back a little bit in the actual game so despite the amount of blood it doesn't seem like there is that much in comparison when you actually play the game, and it certainly doesn't obscure your view at all. That said, if they wanted to come up with an acceptable alternative to blood and gore, they could always got the route of the NES games and have Ryu's enemies inexplicably combust in a fiery explosion once Ryu so much as touches them with his sword. :sly:

So, after actually getting to read that PSM article about Hayashi's info on NG3, he basically confirmed that weapons will automatically upgrade in a specific story-driven order and you have no choice in the matter.

Starting my score for how much faith I have in NG3 to be a good game at 0 (which is from a neutral perspective), my faith is currently at -1....I can't wait to see how much lower it can go from here. :unimpressed:

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 30, 2011, 10:35:58 PM
So, after actually getting to read that PSM article about Hayashi's info on NG3, he basically confirmed that weapons will automatically upgrade in a specific story-driven order and you have no choice in the matter.

Starting my score for how much faith I have in NG3 to be a good game at 0 (which is from a neutral perspective), my faith is currently at -1....I can't wait to see how much lower it can go from here. :unimpressed:

Hell, it could be worse. The info you posted above actually momentarily restored my faith in the game.

So, I just saw the gameplay demo, and my worst fear came true: Quick Time Events. FUCK YOU HAYASHI!

To be specific, there is an over-abundance of them in combat, and I don't see what the point of that was when he could have just stuck with Oblieration Techniques which are the same general concept but much better implemented since you don't have a fucking button-prompt slowing things down with every single kill. Seriously, just watch some of the kick-ass videos of pros playing NG2 on Master Ninja to see what I mean. You get stylish kills without slowing down the combat. That said, the one genuine good thing I can say about the demo is that aside from the STUPID AS FUCK QTEs (sorry, I just can't get over that), the rest of the combat doesn't seem to have sacrificed its speed at all.

As it stands, I already know for sure that this game won't be nearly as good as NGB or NG2 in my book, but I was already expecting that. It doesn't look terrible, but in a way it is because now it feels more like "Ninja of War" than Ninja Gaiden. **Sigh** (still....even then the combat kicks the crap out of anything you'd find in a God of War game....just sayin').

The other thing that depresses me from this demo is that the enemy AI looks pis-poor compared to the other games. I HOPE that this is remedied on harder difficulty settings. Also, I hope that we still have fiend-killing like in the previous games. Don't get me wrong, I actually "prefer" the humanoid enemies in the 3D NG games (they are simply more well designed and more fun to fight), but I still love the aspect of fighting fiends and it would really tick me off if they totally removed that element of demonic/mystic creatures from the game completely.

So, yeah, I may still be up for playing this game when it comes out, but its definitely not going to be a day one buy for me, and I'm going to know to keep my expectations relatively low when picking it up.

I thought QTEs were dying, but this E3 has had more QTEs than I've seen in years.

Why do people enjoy them so much? They blow.

The reason people (usually casual gamers) enjoy them is that they are little mini-game challenge sequences (that really aren't all that hard to begin with as long as you have average reflexes) that basically allow players to do really cool looking moves and actions without having to get good at the game by gaining skill and learning combos. Its basically for lazy gamers who want a lazy form of gameplay. In the case of NG3, it doesn't seem like they totally butchered the combat system, but the QTEs definitely slows down the combat in a bad way, IMO.

Like I said, NG2 already had a MUCH better alternative to QTEs. Why no other games have learned from it and tried to implement some form of OTs is beyond me.

Also, you know what really pisses me off when I think about it? Somehow I bet that critics are going to like this game better than NG2 just because it complies to the demands to make the game play more commonly and turn it into a more generic-style hack n' slash. To be fair, the demo at least still felt enough like a Ninja Gaiden game that I haven't totally been turned off from playing it, but as far as I'm concerned its a step down from the previous NG games, and I'd like to tell Hayashi that I think his gameplay design for this game is far more dated than NG2's personally.

Oddly enough, Hayashi modernizing this game by immersing you into it by getting rid of save statues and instead giving you those hawks that fly down, Ryu being able to perform stealth kills, and having that operative (who is rumored to be Irene, but once again, its only just a "rumor" at this point) talking to Ryu (just like how most games these days has a disembodied voice talking to you as you play) don't bother me at all. I actually find those to be welcome additions to the game since I like those aspects implemented in other games. That said, QTEs are just plain unforgivable in my book.

Actually, the stealth kills do bother me a smidge, since Ryu is supposed to be a bad-ass warrior more than a ninja (he isn't supposed to be a ninja in any realistic sense, but just because it sounds cool), and Itagaki's vision of him as well as the original NES games was that he mowed down any enemies who were in his way as a form of honor, whereas back-stabbing them is dishonorable, but to be honest....I don't mind them going against that since I still think its a fun gameplay mechanic as long as its not implemented too often.

I re-watched the demo and decided to list my likes and dislikes:

Likes

Combat is still fast and fluid (minus the QTEs....)
Sliding
No projectile spam
Camera looks to be much better implemented than in previous games
UTs no longer reliant on essence (which no longer exists in the game); in other words, no more UT spam is possible
Ryu's new voice (this is the 3rd voice actor he has had, and believe it or not, this one seems the most fitting, to me)
New save system (believe it or not, I actually prefer it to the dragon statues for some reason....)
Stealth kills


Dislikes

QTEs
Removal of dismemberment and OTs
pis-poor enemy AI (not only are they less agressive, but they whine and beg for their lives....so annoying)
Wall-climbing (it just slows down the gameplay, and I don't see why Ryu can't just jump from wall-to-wall like in previous games)
Recycling NG2's music (yeah, you lazy bastards at Team Ninja, I noticed that)
Boss is just a QTE-fest with no health-bar
No enemy variety except for humanoid enemies (as of yet)

So far I count 8 likes and 7 dislikes going by the demo....so surprisingly that gives me one positive point on this game, but then I have to subtract one since one of my points is one thing that this game doesn't have that should have been removed to begin with (no projectile spam, which is definitely a good thing), so then it makes 7 positives and 7 negatives, which still makes me really neutral to this game.

You know, I wish Itagaki was still heading the development of these games. Back when I saw the NG2 demo a few years ago, my score was somewhere around +1000 or something like that for me, whereas over here even a +1 score is a bit of a stretch for me to make.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 06, 2011, 10:01:01 PMBoss is just a QTE-fest with no health-bar

What in the blue fuck? That seems like the worst news so far.

Yeah, it really does bother me A LOT. Other gamers might not get it....but I really like having boss health-bars. I like the feeling of progress of getting better at a tough boss. Even if I don't beat it on my 10th try, I take satisfaction in how low I got its health to come down since the first time that I fought it (in which case I would initially not have even been able to take out a quarter of its health). With no health bars, these boss fights will just become a pis-poor version of the boss fights from a Zelda game (I like Zelda's boss fights, but only because they are designed for its style of gameplay).

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 06, 2011, 09:04:58 PM
So, I just saw the gameplay demo, and my worst fear came true: Quick Time Events. FUCK YOU HAYASHI!

To be specific, there is an over-abundance of them in combat, and I don't see what the point of that was when he could have just stuck with Oblieration Techniques which are the same general concept but much better implemented since you don't have a fucking button-prompt slowing things down with every single kill. Seriously, just watch some of the kick-ass videos of pros playing NG2 on Master Ninja to see what I mean. You get stylish kills without slowing down the combat. That said, the one genuine good thing I can say about the demo is that aside from the STUPID AS FUCK QTEs (sorry, I just can't get over that), the rest of the combat doesn't seem to have sacrificed its speed at all.

As it stands, I already know for sure that this game won't be nearly as good as NGB or NG2 in my book, but I was already expecting that. It doesn't look terrible, but in a way it is because now it feels more like "Ninja of War" than Ninja Gaiden. **Sigh** (still....even then the combat kicks the crap out of anything you'd find in a God of War game....just sayin').

The other thing that depresses me from this demo is that the enemy AI looks pis-poor compared to the other games. I HOPE that this is remedied on harder difficulty settings. Also, I hope that we still have fiend-killing like in the previous games. Don't get me wrong, I actually "prefer" the humanoid enemies in the 3D NG games (they are simply more well designed and more fun to fight), but I still love the aspect of fighting fiends and it would really tick me off if they totally removed that element of demonic/mystic creatures from the game completely.

So, yeah, I may still be up for playing this game when it comes out, but its definitely not going to be a day one buy for me, and I'm going to know to keep my expectations relatively low when picking it up.

The series is forever dead to me. That's all I needed to read.

I'm normally fine with QTEs in games (I even like them, sometimes), but they really do not belong in Ninja Gaiden. What the fuck is Hayashi thinking?

Just an update: It turns out the part where Ryu guts his enemies in combat isn't a QTE sequence. The button-prompt only appears the first few times in the demo as a tutorial. After that, it can be used was a regular move in the game without the buttom-prompt (sort of like an OT), so that's one less QTE sequence in the game, but its still fucking stupid because it slows down the overall combat speed and flow. So, yeah, Hayashi can still go fuck himself.

Another thing that was pointed out to me was that the QTE where Ryu slides is one of Ryu's own general abilities rather than having you press a button that does something Ryu can't normally do. But in that case why the fuck would Hayashi make that a QTE sequence? He said he wouldn't dumb the difficulty down for fans, so why can't he just trust that we're smart enough to figure that out on our own. I actually like the addition of the slide maneuver to the game, it actually seems like something that fits NG, but I don't want to be told when I need to slide under a truck flying at me, or something like that. I'd rather die in the process of trying to figure it out by myself.

Oh, and after re-watching the demo yet again, I can already say that the fucking kunai climb has got to go? Why does Ryu even need it? Why can't he just use his flying bird flip maneuver (jumping back and forth between walls to scale them) to get up in like 2 seconds, as opposed to ever so slowly climbing up a simple wall, brick by brick. It seems both unnecessary and downright boring and tedious to do, and its yet another thing that slows down the pace and flow of the game. Uuuugggghhhh. So, yeah, its basically Uncharted Ninja of War. I won't say that its a terrible game, but it no longer feels like a real Ninja Gaiden game to me, so in that regard, I agree with GSF in that "Ninja Gaiden" is dead (at least the gameplay design that I have come to know and love from the series). The sad thing is that I'll still probably play this game anyways just because it happens to share the same title, though. :srs:

It's going to be on nintendo's new system.

Yeah, I commented on that on the E3 thread. I'm still pissed off at Hayashi about this game, but the fact that its going to the WiiU is just another reason for me to pick that up and transfer to Nintendo for good.

So, according to Hayashi, the QTEs seen in the E3 demo were apparently just moves that Ryu could normally do which are used in the first level for "tutorial" to ease people into Ryu's new abilities in the game (as he put it), and he claims that there won't be any QTEs in future levels of the game past the tutorial stage, or very few of them at that. If this is true, then that will be a HUGE relief for me, but somehow I'm still skeptical since after seeing what still resembles QTEs (at least to my untrained eyes, I suppose), I really don't trust Hayashi too much. But, he did specifically claim on video that there wouldn't be any past the tutorial, so I'm hoping he can at least keep his word about that.

I also watched the demo from someone else playing the game who was apparently much better than the person who played the demo for Game Trailers, and I have to say that the combat is definitely not bad as far as the Dragon Sword goes, as that player was able to chain together many more combos before using the gutting moves that slowed down the flow of the combat, so if more experienced players can use that feature to a minimum and spend more time chaining quick combos together than that will be yet another big relief for me.

As it stands, if those 2 above things are indeed true, then it'll restore just a bit of my faith that this game may be above average. I hope to GOD that their true, because despite what it may seem, I do really want this game to be good being that I am an NG fan, but right now I have very mixed feelings about this game, as I really like some additions but completely loathe some others.

Did anyone else besides me check out the demo? I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on it besides the pros, who mostly feel the same as me but I have to admit overreact way too much to some things that aren't necessarily bad changes at all, from my point of view.

I was getting annoyed when he was fighting and I kept seeing the action freeze and "B" highlighting the whole screen over and over.

Otherwise, graphically it looks very nice.

The button-prompt that appears in the middle of combat disappears after the first wave of enemies in the demo, so its not actually a QTE but just a tutorial. Still, I think its annoying that it slows down the overall combat, but it didn't look that bad either. What confuses me, though, is that Ryu pulled off some OT moves in the demo (at least they recycled those animations from NG2), so I'm confused as to if they keep those in the game or just integrate that into the new combat system as a "steel-on-bone" move.

Eh, Whatever, the demo looks OK but underwhelming for a 3D NG game. I hope that the gameplay improves in the future with fan feedback, but I won't hold my breath for anything like that to happen.

Wow....I just realized that we likely won't be getting back most weapons from NG2, because Hayashi keeps stressing that the weapons in this game will focus on sword-play, which basically means that any other weapons we get will likely just be the DS with new skins and possibly some unique combos of their own....but that's just plain stupid. In previous NG games we got numerous completely unique and varied weapons which each had their specific uses for strategic situations. If Hayashi is really dumb enough to remove that, then I deeply fear for the future of this series, assuming that it'll even have one after this game.

I know it may seem like I'm way too edgy about this thing and all since I'm sure not many people care whether this game is good or bad, but being a passionate NG fan, I just can't ignore shit like this. I mean, it'd be the equivalent of Capcom releasing Mega Man 11 but then saying that they wanted to focus on Mega Man's own regular M. Buster and then just giving you a different color for what shots look like every time you beat a boss. That'd be pretty lame, wouldn't it? Well, this is the same exact concept applied to Ninja Gaiden, from what I can tell. Its not confirmed yet, but as far as I can tell, its been heavily implied.

Even though I'm not all that excited for NG3, I realized that unlike many other classic game series and franchises, the NG series has never really gotten a proper retrospective except for one series of great articles that I can think of, and I kind of wanted to give my take on the series, and I figured since a new NG game will be coming out within less than a year, it might be as good a time as any to do one for this series, which while classic and popular among many retro and core gamers, seems to be slowly becoming more and more forgotten and distant from a lot of gamers as time goes on. Being that I am a big fan of the series myself, both the classic NES titles as well as the 3D games, I wanted to give my input on each of the games that I have played in the series, and I also plan to research and write about the more obscure games in the series that are nearly impossible to find and that I will likely never get to play, but my main focus will be on the main titles, anyways. I'll even create a separate blog for it (which I may just use for future game reviews that I want to do).

Now, keep in mind that I'm focused on finishing up my AR projects first so I don't plan to start this for a little while (plus I also want to order NGB online and replay the entire game before I write a main article on it). But, I just wanted to post here that I was planning on doing it, and I also was thinking that it'd be interesting if I could get any secondary opinions for anyone here who has played any of the games, not as full articles (unless someone wanted to do a full article of their own), as they could be from a few sentences to a whole essay long depending on how much that person wanted to write, to go along with the main article that I'd write for some of the games just to kind of get more than my opinion in there being that I'm obvious biased towards these games and will make them seem better than most people might find them if only because I love them so much, but it'd be nice to see some opinionated pieces on them to go with what I write about them to give some readers an alternate perspective (I plan to at least link to what I write on other boards that I go to, which is only....2, but I may just link to it on a few boards that I used to go to ages ago just to get some people to read it).

Once again, I'm only going to do this later on in the summer since I'm focused on AR stuff and since I have to work through a hospital rotation for 2 weeks starting from next week (so I'll be busy, then), but if anyone wants to volunteer to write a little something of their own later on, I'd really appreciate it, but either way its all cool. ;)

Oh, BTW, I'm going to create a blog for video-game reviews in general since I want to give my own takes on some games, from classics that I have only gotten to play recently like the Mega Man X games to other modern games that I want to give my own takes on, like the vastly underrated F.E.A.R. 2 (IMO). If anyone else wants in that'll be cool too, but like I said I won't be starting this for at least another month.

And one more thing I'll probably do is post a short article here as to why NGB is my favorite game of all time, just as a warm-up of sorts, I suppose. At any rate, I just thought that I'd get this all out there, since I'm really in the mood to write about some video game related stuff.

So, CyberEvil (a veteran NG player from a site called Ninja Fortress) got his hands on the demo himself and wrote a detailed description of it. And, when I say detailed, I mean really in-depth stuff from specific changes in combo strings to how i-frames play out, so it was really insightful for other veteran players such as myself. That said, as was predicted, he said he wasn't impressed with the demo, though said that he hadn't lost faith in the game either and noted that there were some good things about the demo which he liked. He also said "not to worry" about QTEs since they are so far non-existent in the game and everything in the demo was just there for tutorial after all.

One thing he noted which was of big concern to all of us NG fans was the almost not-existent difficulty, though. He noted that the demo had a Normal mode and a Hard mode, and that he tried the Hard mode and didn't find himself struggling at all. Of course, nobody went into immediate panic about this because if its anything like previous NG games there will be more than one difficulty that's higher than hard mode, or there will at the very least be a Master Ninja mode, but for Hard mode to not be the least bit hard seems to be a cause for some worry at the moment. He also noted that the health bar completely regenerates after battles but said that this may just be specifically for the demo as its meant for more less experienced players to have an easier time with, I suppose.

I'd post his full post here but its pretty long, though I could always just link to it if anyone else wanted to check it out. Anyways, while it was an insightful post, nothing that he said seemed to surprise me in the least, as I pretty much already felt the same way from watching various playthroughs of the demo. I'm not really digging it, myself, but it doesn't necessarily look bad to me, either, so I have just a tiny slimmer of hope ATM that Hayashi is at least sensible enough to listen to user-feedback from long-time fans and veteran players and at least implement or change some of the core elements that most fans are suggesting in reaction to the demo.

So, I thought I'd update things that are confirmed about this game so far:

-The QTEs were confirmed to only be there for tutorial purposes for the public players in the demo. Hayashi points out that they are all abilities that Ryu can normally do and that they were only presented in QTE form for tutorial for new players, and said that they won't appear after the first level of the game. So, that's a HUGE relief, but it still doesn't change the fact that the SoB segments massively slow down the combat for a very gimmicky sort of kill, IMO.

-Dismemberment is completely GONE. Yeah, that awesome feature in NG2 that actually really affected the gameplay no longer exists in this game. To be fair, NGB didn't have any dismemberment aside from heads being lopped off on occasion, and that's still the best NG game out, IMO, so that doesn't automatically kill the game but at the same time I think its a huge step back from NG2's combat system which WAS one of the few things that the 2nd game did better than the 1st game.

- The competitive side of the multiplayer will include a 4 vs. 4 deathmatch sort of mode....yes, as in something you'd expect from an FPS game....Ninja of Duty, in other words which sounds completely ludicrous for a hack n' slash game, no less a Ninja Gaiden game at that. Maybe it could somehow be good, but really when I think about it it just sounds hilariously bad, plus any great multiplayer needs a ton of time in development to be tweaked to perfection, and with Hayashi rushing out a game that's only 30% done as it is by early next year, I doubt he'll even give any mode the time and attention that it needs to be great. I won't be surprised if NG3 only takes me 4 hours to beat....on my first time through without doing a speed-run....

-The demo featured both a Normal and Hard mode, and people who played the demo confirmed that hard mode wasn't really hard at all....

-Ninpo is confirmed to make a return in this game.

-There will no longer be a shop or potions to use, and your weapons will upgrade automatically as the story progresses.

-Killing enemies automatically replenishes bits of Ryu's health.

-SoBs occur at random and thus interrupt the flow of combo strings, and you are also punished for not completing them, so they do basically still play like QTEs in a sense, though it was confirmed that any button press will finish an SoB segment, rather than having to press the button that you are prompted to in the beginning of the stage.

-The Flying Swallow has been completely removed from this game, and has instead been replaced by a throw move in which Ryu grabs the enemy upon contact and impales him from behind.

-There is now a buffer window for OL charges (I don't expect any other person on this board besides me to know what the fuck that means, but trust me when I say that its really fucking around with the combat system for veteran players such as myself), so you can't rely on using them to pull off quick UTs, and instead must pull them off the normal way.

-UTs Will always contact enemies no matter where you are located relative to them, and the UTs will always do the same amount of damage each time (kills 3 normal enemies, but takes 2 of the 3 hits in the animation to take out enemies with a shield). This means that the more strategic risk/reward system of UTs from the previous games is completely gone from this installment of the game. In addition, UTs can no longer be spammed and you must kill a certain number of enemies and wait until Ryu's arm starts glowing to activate another UT (admittedly, this buffer is actually a "good" thing, believe it or not....but its among an ocean of shitty changes, so its a moot point).

-Stealth segments are completely optional and if you choose to just fight enemies normally then the fight will just proceed normally instead of you getting a free 1-hit kill (once again, another good thing, and its worth pointing out that I didn't even mind the stealth segments to begin with).


Most veteran players who have played the demo seem to pretty much agree that they were underwhelmed by the gameplay so far yet the demo also somehow showed enough good stuff that they said that they haven't lost hope in the game yet. In general, a lot of people who were originally backlashing the game, including other veteran players, are slowly warming up to it now, though still hold a healthy amount of skepticism.

I myself am back to square one, being completely skeptic but not getting the feeling that the game has totally gone down the crap-shoot just yet. As it stands, I think it'll probably end up being a decent action game in its own right but a shitty Ninja Gaiden game, but I'm going into it with those low expectations so I doubt it'll disappoint me any further than that. Some changes do strike me as surprisingly good, while others have me intrigued, but there are still too many that leave me quite disgusted.

Overall, I'm saying that this game is definitely not going to be anywhere close to as good as NGB and probably won't even be better than NG2 (which I liked a whole lost despite its numerous flaws), but I also think that it'll be different enough in its gameplay mechanics to stand apart from the rest of the series, anyways.

In fact, one thing I took notice to is how essentially very different each 3D NG game feels compared to one another. They have the same core mechanics, but unlike in other series a lot of gameplay elements change between them and they most certainly don't feel like more of the same in how they play and how they are designed at all. In this regard, I kind of have a lot of respect for the 3D NG games for at least trying something new each time without just playing it safe and sticking to the same formula, though admittedly I wouldn't mind a true sequel to NGB that DOES actually follow its formula, since its still a nearly perfect setup for any great action game, IMO.

So, apparently, the most recent PSM issue that's out has a 10-pages worth of exclusive material covering NG3 (supposedly more stuff than what was revealed at E3 this year). Its not like I have any faith in this game or anything, but its NG so I'm still following and tracking its progress for the time being since I'm still just interested enough in it to see how it turns out. I wouldn't mind knowing if there is any new relevant info presented in that article. I don't suppose anyone here actually subscribes to PSM, do they? :P

Oh, BTW, here (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=240916879267162&set=a.240916875933829.77503.159231720769012&type=1&theater) is the cover art for the new issue. I can't help but wonder why Ryu's signature Dragon Sword is deliberately missing from the picture (unless the artists were actually stupid enough to have left it out by accident :D ).

Also, once again, don't get the wrong idea as my stance on this game is still basically at square one (I neither hate it nor like it as of yet), but THIS (http://i.imgur.com/CE1s2.jpg) picture is fucking epic. Its my current wallpaper on my desktop, in fact. :thumbup:

Still....I'd like to know what the fuck the jets are doing in the background....

I've never heard of this guy or his show before, but wow (http://kotaku.com/5814938/episode-1-ninja-gaiden).................that was legitimately hilarious, especially considering its Japan.

I'm surprised that there is actually a Japanese gamer out there who even acknowledges the existence of Ninja Gaiden.

The last level playthrough is interesting since it alone takes up the entire second half of the video, and 4 guys have to team up to take turns taking it on so that no single one person gets driven insane by being sent back to the beginning of the stage. Smart team-work, lol.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 24, 2011, 10:16:19 PM
I'm surprised that there is actually a Japanese gamer out there who even acknowledges the existence of Ninja Gaiden.

Really? I figured it'd be more popular in Japan than overseas since it's a Japanese game. ???

Video is great so far. :lol:

Ninja "Ryukenden" used to be fairly popular back in its day in Japan, but hardly anyone seems to care about it in that country anymore, especially Tecmo....

Also, all of the 3D Ninja Gaiden games sold like absolute SHIT in Japan, even the Sigma games.

Ninja Gaiden has always been more popular in America than in Japan, even the NES games were more praised by American gamers. Its just like how Suda51's games are more popular and well-recognized in America compared to Japan....relatively speaking, anyways; that is to say that they aren't actually "popular" in America or anywhere, period, but at least they get great critical reception in America AND get a small but very dedicated fan-base, which is more than what I can say for how those games seem to be treated in Japan, in that they are completely ignored.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 24, 2011, 11:03:05 PM
Also, all of the 3D Ninja Gaiden games sold like absolute SHIT in Japan, even the Sigma games.

That's both disappointing and distressing. Oh well, if they'd rather play LovePlus and Criminal Girls, then so be it.

QuoteNinja Gaiden has always been more popular in America than in Japan, even the NES games were more praised by American gamers. Its just like how Suda51's games are more popular and well-recognized in America compared to Japan....relatively speaking, anyways; that is to say that they aren't actually "popular" in America or anywhere, period, but at least they get great critical reception in America AND get a small but very dedicated fan-base, which is more than what I can say for how those games seem to be treated in Japan, in that they are completely ignored.

I remember hearing about how when No More Heroes launched in Japan, Suda51 was hanging out at a game store willing to sign purchased copies, talk with fans, and give away free NMH-themed toilet paper. Absolutely no one showed up except for some guy from the press who was covering the event. Such a sad story.

This Retro Game Master show is freakin' hilarious, btw.

If even Dragon Sword sold like shit, then the series must really be in trouble. Portable games are supposed to sell well there.

Japanese gamers are pussies now anyways. They didn't buy Vanquish, Bayonetta, No More Heroes, or really any of their own games this gen, and they probably won't buy Shadows Of The Damned either. No, they'd rather play the shitty moe games with little to no gameplay, as that's what racks up the sales there.

I'm still pissed about not one Japanese gamer attending that launch party for No More Heroes in Japan. That must have made the team feel like shit.

I read an article about that No More Heroes public launch with Suda being there and nobody showing up. That's just seriously depressing. I mean, its not like I'm surprised that its not popular over there, but I have to say the fact that not even ONE SINGLE PERSON showed up to it is rather shocking. I mean, wow....I haven't even played the game yet, myself, and that still just depresses me to hear that.

Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword got really good reviews and I thought it was an extremely well-made game, hand-held or otherwise (and as it stands its the only thing to Hayashi's name that is pretty much solid quality that isn't based off of something Itagaki made first; its too bad he can't emulate that quality for NG3). Despite that, it sold like shit in both Japan and North America. Its a seriously underrated gem on the DS, IMO. If you can find it for a cheap price, I'd recommend at least giving it a try if you have the time. I thought it was a ton of fun, though a bit too easy for my taste (even on the harder difficulties), which is my only real gripe with it.

Quote from: Foggle on June 24, 2011, 11:08:53 PM
This Retro Game Master show is freakin' hilarious, btw.

My favorite part is how he and his teammates react to finding out that the final boss isn't really the "final" boss....twice. :D

I've been meaning to pick up Dragon Sword for awhile now, but I keep forgetting to and I don't know why. :(

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 25, 2011, 12:31:47 AM
My favorite part is how he and his teammates react to find out that the final boss isn't really the "final" boss....twice. :D

Just finished the video, actually. Funny stuff - this definitely seems like a show to keep up with. The original NG sure is sadistic. :lol:

Quote from: Desensitized on June 25, 2011, 12:22:52 AM
Japanese gamers are pussies now anyways. ... No, they'd rather play the shitty moe games with little to no gameplay, as that's what racks up the sales there.

I'm not sure if I can completely agree with this. Monster Hunter is the top-selling series in Japan, isn't it? That shit is fucking tedious. Some of the hardest games I've ever played; absolutely sadistic difficulty level and nothing cool, funny, or exciting in the game that really hooked me and made me want to get better. It's just not fun, for me. Disregarding my rant, I'd have to say that a pussy gamer wouldn't even touch those games, since they require tons of skill and dedication. But aside from that, you're right.

At least Yakuza sells well there. Can't fault them for that.

All they buy nowadays seems to be Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest. It's almost like they buy systems for one game and then never buy anything else... Except those moe games.

Games as a whole just aren't that big a deal in Japan this gen.

One of my friends has been trying to get me to play Monster Hunter for a while. From the little I've tried at his house, I think I'm good.

I can't help but notice that all Japanese trends are ass, but dumbass weaboos still eat them up. It's hard to keep up with the industry in general these days because of all that comes out and sells.

I just started playing Ninja Gaiden 2 again. I was getting devastated by the enemies at first, but after 15 minutes or so I was pulling off combos as well as I used to. I think the first level here is one of the best in any video game; it teaches you the controls but doesn't hold your hand, it lets you visit a variety of locations, and the boss fight at the end is awesome. The overall game design may not be as good as Black, but the combat itself is some of the best ever.

I know this doesn't really matter at all, but whenever I view the leaderboards, it says that I'm playing Acolyte when I am definitely on Warrior mode. Do you know the reason for this?

Quote from: Foggle on July 04, 2011, 11:26:03 AM
I just started playing Ninja Gaiden 2 again. I was getting devastated by the enemies at first, but after 15 minutes or so I was pulling off combos as well as I used to. I think the first level here is one of the best in any video game; it teaches you the controls but doesn't hold your hand, it lets you visit a variety of locations, and the boss fight at the end is awesome. The overall game design may not be as good as Black, but the combat itself is some of the best ever.

Its honestly my favorite combat system in any game ever. Bayonetta and DMC have more robust combo systems and God Hand easily has the most skill-based combat system that I have seen in any game ever, but NG has always been my favorite for how goddamn fast and fluid it is. In that department I still feel its quite unlike anything else in the genre, and I personally feel that its pretty unmatched. I always felt that NG2 definitely got the combat mechanics perfected over the first game. I kind of wish that NG3 would have just been NG2's combat system with NGB's level and overall gameplay design. That's all I really wanted and I'd be eternally content with the NG series.

Speaking of the combat, you should really experiment with the Blade of the Archfiend in New Game + mode (unfortunately since you only get it at the very end of the game for the last boss fight, you can only actually play around with it in New Game + ). I swear it has some of the most amazing moves I have ever seen in a video game. Underworld Drop is fucking godly, and if you can at least learn that one move and then use it when at the top of the clock-tower in chapter 8, you'll probably orgasm at just having witnessed one of the most awesome moments in gaming ever. I'm serious, try it, its a fucking amazing feeling performing an Undworld Drop on any enemy from over 200 feet in the air. :shakeshakeshake:

Anyways, I'm glad to see that you are enjoying the game again. I recently just finished playing the game on Acolyte mode, myself, for the first time, since I always skipped that difficulty ever since I got the game. I totally got thrown off at moments when I expected tougher versions of Fiends to appear and instead I got the wimpy versions of the dogs or other weaker enemies, and in some cases tough enemies were completely replaced with those tiny little bats. I really had a laugh there. :lol:

I also love chapter 1. It does a good job of teaching you all of the necessary skills (though not quite as good as NGB since that downright forces you to learn the basics in order to move on), and I just love a game that can throw you into the action right away. Your first real fight IS your tutorial, lol. My personal favorite chapters in the game are Chapter 2 (very reminiscent of the first game), 7 (easily the most well-designed chapter in the game; and I'll be honest, I fucking laughed my ass off at the exploding Armadillo at the end), and 11 (the most epic revenge chapter in any game ever). The only 2 chapters in the game that I downright hate are chapters 9 and 12. If you ever replay up to chapter 9, let me give you a little cheating glitch to get past the beginning of the level (and trust me, its not worth putting up with the frustration of the limitless water mines, so there is absolutely no shame in cheating your way through that part of the game).

Overall, I can fully admit that its a flawed game and it has its balance issues, but its hardly a "cheap" or "unfair" game up to Mentor mode (Master Ninja is fairly cheap, though, so I wouldn't recommend that difficulty if you can't put up with some serious frustration) and I feel that people to readily blame the game for some of their own faults. The camera is a nuisance at times but it doesn't ever obstruct my view that often, and the enemies all have attacks that can be avoided through fair play (except for Dagra Dai, that cheating SOB :burn: ). So really, I still say that half the complaints about this game's difficulty are completely unfounded.

QuoteI know this doesn't really matter at all, but whenever I view the leaderboards, it says that I'm playing Acolyte when I am definitely on Warrior mode. Do you know the reason for this?

Well, did you ever physically upload any of your scores? It should automatically update your information when you upload your scores. Either way, though, the leaderboards are useless for this game, because the scoring system is, horribly, horribly broken. Even after the patches, there are so many easy ways to cheat your way to a max score of 999,999,999. It really pissed off most fans of NGB who seriously played that game competitively to try and achieve the best possible scores that they could.

QuoteYeah, I'm on chapter 2 right now. I love how you start off in an area from the end of the first game's chapter 2. :)

Both chapter 2 and 11 really hit me with a blast of nostalgia for showing us very memorable stuff from the first 2 levels of NGB. I'll even admit that I shed a bit of a tear when I saw the pure fan-service Team Ninja did by including the entire starting area of the 1st game into Chapter 11 (its optional to go there, but it was so nice of them to include that "big" little easter-egg. ;)

QuoteI'll definitely want your help in chapter 9... fuck those water mines.

Yeah, that's one of the only few things that Sigma 2 did better than the original game: That is to say it was better in that regard by completely removing that feature from the game. Itagaki, you're still awesome, but what the FUCK were you thinking when you put those ass-retarded obstacles in the game?

Also, the water-mines are in chapter 5 as well right before a watermill, but they are easy to avoid if you just hug the left wall leading up to there, in which case you should be able to skip all of the mines (and if there is one there, then you can just jump right over it).

BTW, If there's one thing I'd recommend learning in the game that's a legitimate skill-based technique that makes the whole game SO much easier when you know it is the art of performing on-landing charge attacks. It takes all of 5 minutes to master and it is useful for the entire game. It lets you charge up ETs and UTs in an instant (if there is essence around) as long as you get your timing right. Also, try using some 360 degree spin moves (where you rotate the analogue stick about 180 degrees and then press or hold Y). Trust me, those are very useful moves that most people never learn about and they are entirely awesome to boot. They work with certain weapons, but I'll leave it up to you to experiment with the game's combat system (as to me that's a huge part of what makes it so much fun).

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 04, 2011, 12:16:19 PM
Also, try using some 360 degree spin moves (where you rotate the analogue stick about 180 degrees and then press or hold Y). Trust me, those are very useful moves that most people never learn about and they are entirely awesome to boot.

I actually did that for the first time ever (and completely by accident) about 30 minutes ago! Thanks for explaining how to do it, I had no idea. :lol:

I don't really remember much about chapter 11 (about 3 years since I've played this game). Since it's optional, how do you get to the area from the first game? I want to make sure I don't miss it. :SHOCK:

Silly Foggle, if you just remember the very start of the first game its easy to find the location. :sly:

But seriously, remember how you platform up a cliff-side in the first game then you jump up through what looks like the opening to a well? Just jump down that same passage when you see it in Chapter 11 (it comes right before a string that you shimmy across that leads to a save statue in a grassy field). Its basically a big empty whole that you can jump into, so its fairly hard to miss. There isn't really anything that you can do over there but its a nice little easter-egg all the same. Oh yeah, also if you shoot the targets in Chapter 2 and/or Chapter 11 (just like in the first game), you can get a refill of blue essence, red essence, and about 3,000 worth of yellow essence. Its another nice little easter-egg included from the first game. ;)

BTW, I'm not sure if you're aware but some weapons have alternate UT's that you can do by holding down Y when doing a 360 attack. Since this is common knowledge among all veterans of the game, I'll share it with you: The 360 ET/UT with the Lunar Staff rapes EVERYTHING in the entire game. I kid you not. It'll be your best friend on harder difficulties if you ever decide to try those at any point in time. On this difficulty its not necessary but still fairly useful in tight situations for crowd control, especially against the Lycans.

Ah, okay, thanks for clarifying. Since it's that obvious, I probably would have noticed when I got there.

Chapter 2 boss fight is awesome, though the mini-boss was kind of annoying since he had a bunch of mooks with him. Really liking the aesthetic in chapter 3... it's a shame I know I'm in for a retarded boss battle at the end. :sweat:

Quote from: Foggle on July 04, 2011, 08:59:47 PM
Ah, okay, thanks for clarifying. Since it's that obvious, I probably would have noticed when I got there.

I actually just played through that part of Chapter 11 on Mentor mode after we talked about it (I easily got in the mood to play some NG again and I have a save file on Mentor at the beginning of each chapter), and I realized that you don't even need to jump down the well hole. All you need to do is jump off the cliff instead of shimmying across the wire and you're there at the very first spot where you literally started NGB. That's just fucking awesome level design if I do say so myself. ;)

QuoteChapter 2 boss fight is awesome, though the mini-boss was kind of annoying since he had a bunch of mooks with him.

Genshin is pretty awesome, and easily the most well-designed boss in the game. Its cool to learn how to fight him properly and if you get good enough you can take him out without taking any damage at all. Also, you've just gotta admit that Genshin is a pretty good loser. He doesn't get sore about it when you beat him and he even honorably gives you his kick-ass sword at the end of the game. See, isn't he the nicest villain you ever met. :sly:

As for the 2nd Rasetsu fight, if you thought he was annoying with normal ninja minions on Warrior mode....Mentor and Master Ninja mode will make you want to commit suicide by hanging yourself with your controller wire....so make sure you play any harder difficulties with a wireless controller if you ever dare to try and take those down. ;)

As for me he's not hard at all on Warrior mode, anymore, but he's still a freaking nuisance on the harder difficulty settings. The battle where you fight 9 Rasetsus in a row on that long stone bridge in Chapter 10 is fucking epic, though (and its fair because they only come at you 3 at a time and its a straight path so they can never crowd around you.

QuoteReally liking the aesthetic in chapter 3... it's a shame I know I'm in for a retarded boss battle at the end. :sweat:

I love the whole nod to "Ninja in the USA" from chapters 3 and 4. Total fan-service to fans of the old-school NES Ninja Gaiden games. Who cares if it makes no sense? Its fucking awesome to have a ninja in New York City chopping up other ninjas and Fiends twice his size. Does God of War ever have Kratos wreaking havoc and beating the crap out of ninjas in NYC? I think not. :awesome:

(BTW I'm not trying to be an ass-hole to the GoW series, I just use that line against annoying GoW fans on other boards that bash NG for being too "cheap"; it always gets to them ;) ).

As for the boss battle at the end of chapter 3, save all of your Ninpo for it (you can use it for temporary invincibility when he sends his flying fish at you). Also have you Lunar Staff at at least level 2, and then learn to use its 360 charge attack (its 360 UT). If you charge it up before he closes in on you or right when he shoots his fishes at you, you'll be invincible in those animation frames and won't take any damage and if he passes by you he'll take some damage from you, so its a win-win situation. ;D

Its an annoying boss fight, but it can be made tolerable if you just save up your ninpo and health items for him. Also let me know if you ever have trouble with Alexei in the next chapter, as I have some really good tips and strategies for him (the number one of them being always stay close to him since he will RAPE you if you try to keep your distance from him).

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware of the most useful move in the game against IS ninjas (or humanoid enemies in general), but I'm assuming that you know how to perform the a basic move such as the Flying Swallow with the Dragon Sword (that's the move where you jump up in the air and press forward and "Y" and Ryu does a mid-air warp-dash to the enemy that you aimed at, and occasionally cuts off their heads or otherwise just stuns and damages them by slicing right through them). You may have noticed that some different weapons have their own variations of this move. Well, here's a neat trick if you do it with the Falcon's Talons (assuming that you have them upgraded at least to level 2): do a flying swallow to any humanoid enemy with the FT, and then after that animation when you're both in the air press "X" and then "Y" in immediate succession and you'll perform an Izuna Drop on the enemy. Its easy to chain that same attack when you are crowded by multiple ninjas, and its especially useful in IS ninja or rocket launcher ninja fights because you are completely invincible during the Izuna Drop animation. Once again, its a technique that Veterans discovered that makes the game easier for those having trouble with those sorts of fights (though its completely possible to do those fights without relying on that method if you're skilled enough to handle that sort of carnage, which isn't too hard at all on Acolyte or Warrior mode, IMO).

I just thought I'd drop you that little tip if you wanted to have fun experimenting with it (assuming that you don't already know how to do it, but if you do, then all the more power to you :) ).

Thanks for the tips. I'm trying to do a Dragon Sword run, so I already have it upgraded to level 3. :)

Chapter 3 is a bit of step down in quality from the first two. The first part is awesome, but it gets really obnoxious once you go underground (I got knocked into the water so many times at one point that the game practically became a slapstick comedy). The boss fight is currently pissing me off, but I figure I'll beat it eventually if I just keep trying. Gotten pretty close a couple of times.

Just beat him, and now I'm onto the much more palatable chapter 4. Only had to use two herbs, one grains, and two ninpo. I love how once you get him down to about 1/8 of his health bar he just topples over and lets you wail on him. So rewarding after such a tough fight, much more so than a quick time event, for sure.

Yeah, I think part of the problem is that Team Ninja made the first 2 chapters so awesome that they didn't put nearly as much time and effort into the later chapters again until Chapter 7.

Going by general fan opinion, most people hate Chapter 3 but I thought it was pretty decent (it was mostly fun until the last 3rd of the chapter, IMO). Chapter 4 is a step-up in quality except for that fight in the field where those flying dragons keep knocking you around and it always happens from off-camera (one of the few times that the camera is legitimately horrible in the game); I would strongly advise you to just skip that fight altogether by just walking into the building (being able to skip fights that you don't like is one good thing about this game ;) ). Chapter 5 is, IMO, the best looking level in the game; the design looks absolutely beautiful from start to finish and it has a great use of lighting as well, but the level has its annoyances in the form of some water-mines and enemies that you encounter on the water (they can be easily dealt with if you just rapidly spam the bow-gun, though, which you get early on in the level). Chapter 6 is pretty good overall, though the arrow-based fight with the flying dragons again on the bridge right before the final boss fight with Volf is terrible (and worst of all it can't be skipped :( ).

Then we get to Chapter 7, which is FUCKING AMAZING! I love everything about this chapter. The enemies are awesome (giant Dino-Mechs? FUCK YEAH! Now that's the ridiculous type of enemy design that I expect from a game paying homage to the old-school Ninja Gaiden games!). And yes, I even love fighting Genshin with a bunch of IS ninjas in the room (its actually fair and not too hard to deal with since you are given a lot of open space and can deal with them first before fighting Genshin himself as long as you keep your distance from him). Hell, I even love that fucking exploding Armadillo. Most people get pissed when it explodes, but I just laughed my ass off and called Team Ninja genius for being such trolls. To be fair, though, I blocked the explosion instictively on my first try, since I have learned to never trust this game and think that I'm safe when I'm really not; plus it was kind of rapidly blinking and flashing red a lot which was sort of a dead giveaway....I don't know why so many critics forgot their basic gaming skills to miss that obvious detail.

Chapter 8 is rocket-launcher ninjas galore, and do you know what: With the exception of the excruciating platforming segment in the Clock Tower at the end, its a fun chapter. I hated it at first but its not cheap really, because the rocket launcher ninjas always spawn in front of your camera's default position (so its your own fault if you change it), and once you learn the proper strategies to fight them properly, they are really a cinch to take down. The IS ninjas are the real threat in this level, if you ask me.

Chapter 9 is HORRID! GOD I FUCKING HATE THIS CHAPTER! I won't blame you if you stop playing the game at this point, Foggle, but if you stomach it, then you'll be treated to....

Chapter 10! Another great and epic chapter. Everything about this chapter is big and epic, from fighting 9 Rasetsus in a row on a long stone bridge to slicing up 100+ ninjas on a giant stairway before the final boss fight. Fucking steroid-induced awesomeness....except for the acid cave in the middle. That's the one really annoying hitch in the level. The rest of it is brilliant, though.

Chapter 11 is awesome. Its basically a more epic version of chapter 2, though if you hate IS ninjas than this chapter is not for you (well, I do hate them, but up to Mentor mode you can skillfully deal with them, so I find it to be an awesome chapter). It really sells the whole feeling of an epic revenge against impossible odds, though. Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 REALLY, SERIOUSLY, FUCKED THIS CHAPTER UP! Seriously, watch a youtube video of someone playing NG2's chapter 11 and compare it to NGS2's Chapter 14. Its such a fucking disgrace.

Chapter 12 is shit: not quite as terrible as chapter 9, but its still shit. I hate it, and I wish it weren't in the game along with chapter 9.

Chapters 13 and 14 are alright. Admittedly they are fairly weak for ending chapters, but they have their great moments as well. I neither love nor hate them, but overall I just think that the game should have really ended with Chapter 11 as it made for the most satisfying and epic conclusion chapter to the game (gameplay-wise). Fighting wave after wave of tough enemies in intense combat before squaring off for a final duel with Genshin is the ending that best suited NG2's style of gameplay. And even then it still would have been considerably longer than most action games (I'd say at least 10 hours of gameplay is to be had with the first 11 chapters of the game).

That's my take on the game as a whole, though. I think Chapters 1 and 2 are a really strong start, and that the game doesn't quite stay consistent with that quality throughout, but it does get back to it and even surpasses it on occasion. I do think that you'll like the offerings in later chapters for the most part, though.

Quote from: Foggle on July 04, 2011, 10:23:49 PM
Just beat him, and now I'm onto the much more palatable chapter 4. Only had to use two herbs, one grains, and two ninpo. I love how once you get him down to about 1/8 of his health bar he just topples over and lets you wail on him. So rewarding after such a tough fight, much more so than a quick time event, for sure.

The first time that happened on Master Ninja I did a little dance before preparing to finally take him out....except I waited too long and never realized that even though he was down he could still send his little annoying fish things at me....and I was at a shrivel of health left, so....yeah, that didn't end well, and I lost a good controller that day. :(

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 04, 2011, 10:28:41 PM
Chapter 11 is awesome. Its basically a more epic version of chapter 2, though if you hate IS ninjas than this chapter is not for you (well, I do hate them, but up to Mentor mode you can skillfully deal with them, so I find it to be an awesome chapter). It really sells the whole feeling of an epic revenge against impossible odds, though. Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 REALLY, SERIOUSLY, FUCKED THIS CHAPTER UP! Seriously, watch a youtube video of someone playing NG2's chapter 11 and compare it to NGS2's Chapter 14. Its such a fucking disgrace.

Is that the level where they replaced all the enemies with dogs for absolutely no reason? I think you showed me that a long time ago. Fucking mind-boggling.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 04, 2011, 10:30:07 PM
The first time that happened on Master Ninja I did a little dance before preparing to finally take him out....except I waited too long and never realized that even though he was down he could still send his little annoying fish things at me....and I was at a shrivel of health left, so....yeah, that didn't end well, and I lost a good controller that day. :(

Mother of god. I would have smashed my Xbox! That sounds horrifying.

Yeah....Dogs and 2 annoying Tengu things in the middle of the chapter that can OHK grab you. So, they definitely kept it hard, but in a way that's surprisingly more frustrating than any amount of projectile spam.

So, I read the new OPSM article about NG3, and the more I learn about the game the more I begin to realize what it is. And you know what? Now I finally understand what Hayahi's going for with this game.

You remember that Prince of Persia reboot game that Ubisoft released a couple of years back that completely streamlined everything, made things super easy and accessible for casual gamers, and basically made sure that the game was completely linear in every respect and was streamlined so that you had no real content and little to no upgrades of abilities or such throughout the game?

Yeah, that's basically what NG3 is turning into. I mean, we already know that there are no healing items, which I'd be fine with but then I realized that there actually are health extensions in the game as Hayashi confirmed, but that they are forced on you as you progress through the game. So yeah, that means there are no such thing as handicap runs for the pros. Way to go Hayashi. You really listened to the fans on that one.

Oh, but you haven't heard the best part yet. The previous NG games had new weapons that you got along the way, each of which were very different from Ryu's main weapon, The Dragon Sword, and each of which you could carefully choose to upgrade in the way that you wanted. Now all the weapons are tied to the story and are upgraded over time as the story progresses. But it gets even better: Hayashi pretty much implied that Ryu's weapons will "change" throughout the story (not actually be added into your inventory, which you no longer exists in this game), so now you'll have different weapons for different levels with different situations, which is great when you especially consider that they are FUCKING forced on you. Yup, No more strategic uses of weapons in the game. Hayashi will force you to play the game in one way and one way only, and you'll have to use the weapon that he says you can use for that part of the story, and there's no such thing as changing it up and challenging yourself by using a weaker but faster weapon or trying to make things easier through smart strategy by using certain weapons that are more effective against certain enemies. But here's the real clincher: Since he's so obsessed with his whole steel-on-bone concept (which is basically just his own terms for QTEs; yeah, I bet he thinks he's a fucking genius for coming up with the usage of that in the game), he says that the action is entirely focused on the sword this time in the game. So, that basically means no more diverse weapons. Andy different weapons we get will just be differing looking swords and knowing him, they'll just be new weapon skins with the same exact move-sets as before because Hayashi is a fucking lazy prick who thinks he's a genius developer.

FUCK YOU, HAYASHI! Itagaki may have been an arrogant ass, but at least he put a lot of genuine efforts into giving his games actual content. All you're doing is boasting about your new game and giving fans much less than previous installments gave players. People want a long and robust single-player mode with lots of replay value. Not a half-assed stream-line experience and multiplayer modes that nobody ever asked for. I hope you get mauled by hungry Ninja Dogs the next time you walk out into the streets you fucking series-destroying bastard! :devil: :anger: :burn:

This is why I'm getting more and more disillusioned with gaming.

Gamers badmouth the Super Guide feature Nintendo introduced in NSMBWii, but that's the way it SHOULD be to appeal to both casuals and hardcore gamers. The part is too hard? Let the CPU take over and show you how to get past it, or you can just figure it out on your own. That way the game can be as hard as NSMBWii, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and DKCR and no one will bitch, since hardcore gamers never have to use it.

This 6 hour corridor crap to appeal to the casual core is killing creativity.

Yeah, that's another big worry of mine: With all of this talk about useless multiplayer, we'll once again get another game with an extremely short and half-assed single-player. And the sad thing is that in games like these, the multiplayer itself is half-assed and gimmicky, not holding any real competitive value, since they are not DESIGNED to be multiplayer experiences.

Let me just say that I got FAR more play time out of Ninja Gaiden Black's 20+ hour story mode and its massive replay value than I have out of ANY multiplayer game in existence.

Even NG2 which had considerably less content than the first game still took me 13 hours to beat on my first run through the game.

That's the thing, when Itagaki was present, Team Ninja games if nothing else were always packed to the brim with content. Even the DOA games had a tone of unlockables and shit (not that I ever cared for them, anyways). As soon as Itagaki left and we saw Team Ninja function without him to make Metroid: Other M, what did we get?....A 7 hour story mode with no extra modes and almost no replay value. Don't get me wrong, from what I played of the game the gameplay was pretty solid, but I can see why Metroid fans were pissed. Aside from no exploration and a weak story, the game was just too damn short, and even that would have been fine if it had replay incentive but it really doesn't. Shit like this never would have flew by when Itagaki was present.

God, the current Team Ninja pisses me off so much. And don't listen to what Hayashi or anyone else says: Its not the same TN that was there when Itagaki was present. Hayashi conveniently never mentions that Itagaki basically took the top 20 Team Ninja employees with him to Valhalla Game Studios. That right there make it obvious as to why there is now a serious drop in quality in their content.

This (http://www.gamestm.co.uk/features/yosuke-hayashi-on-ninja-gaiden-3s-controversial-new-direction/) article perfectly sums up most of my (among many other fans) disappointments with the way NG3 is shaping up.

The author of that article really seems to understand the mindset of what NG fans want versus what Hayashi "thinks" that gamers want in a hack n' slash game in general. All he's doing is really playing it safe. Sure, NG3 is shaping up to be very different from any previous NG game, but that doesn't mean that its being different. Its just cowering down to the level of using stuff that are in other popular action games. Its clearly very scripted based on its demo (whereas the first 2 games weren't the least big scripted), and its more about forcing you to play one particular way rather than letting you experiment or use strategy.

Also, I don't like that Hayashi openly admits that he's going a totally different route in terms of where NG is headed compared to a game like Bayonetta. When Bayonetta came out it was the first hack n' slash game since the 1st DMC and since NGB that got praised for moving the genre a step further. As an NG fan I would want to see NG3 challenge that and try to strive to be the best game in the genre again. Instead what we're getting is a game that plays it safe trying to attract casual gamers who don't even give a rats ass about the series to begin with (believe me, I can tell you the sales for this game won't be any better than the first 2 games despite what Hayashi is putting in it).

One thing that especially bothers me is how much Hayashi contradicts the gaming philosophy behind Itagaki's NG games. Itagaki once stated that in other action games, the enemies are there for you to kill, but in NG games they are there to kill you. I LOVED that mindset for the NG games. Its the key thing that set it apart from all the other action games out there. I loved the tense situations it put you in and how it really tested all the skills you learned throughout the game and how you really got the feeling of fighting worthy opponents that really pushed you to the limit. Hell, even Bayonetta doesn't manage to capture that feeling of intense combat that is only signature of the NG games (despite its beautifully robust combat system, which I do indeed think is great). It really kills me inside to see that Hayashi is completely getting rid of that defining characteristic of NG and instead swapping it out with enemies that beg for their lives. What, does he want us to feel bad about killing cannon-fodder enemies in a video game? Because no matter how much he tries to sugar-code it, they are just cannon-fodder and this isn't such a unique and different game from other average action games.

Overall NG3 is already clearly such a disappointment. It doesn't seem like its mechanically a bad game or anything, as the demo's gameplay seemed fine, but really it just seems so standard. Were this any other hack n' slash game without the NG title, I highly doubt it would be getting much attention at all, since its just so standard. As a huge fan of the 3D NG games I really feel saddened to see that instead of a return to form for the series after NG2, we are instead getting yet a further step back. I sincerely wish that after NG3 gets mediocre reception and sales, Hayashi will realize that the series was better off doing what it does best: featuring intense and challenging gameplay and tough enemies with aggressive AI, with the open level design of NGB. That's all I want from a true sequel.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on August 14, 2011, 09:46:12 PM
I sincerely wish that after NG3 gets mediocre reception and sales, Hayashi will realize that the series was better off doing what it does best: featuring intense and challenging gameplay and tough enemies with aggressive AI, with the open level design of NGB.

Knowing Hayashi, if this does end up happening, then he'll just assume that gamers don't want any new Ninja Gaiden games at all and you can say hello to Dead Or Alive: Extreme Pornographic Film Studio Tycoon.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the mentality the industry adopts when it comes to franchises. One bad seller and they just stop. It doesn't even matter the reason why, they just chalk it up to people not wanting the series anymore.

That stupid mentality has killed a lot of good series because of bad executive decisions.

There was an article recently (which I'll try to fine) with an interview with Itagaki. In it he explained that (at least for Japanese companies, according to him) a lot of the higher-up executives of gaming companies these days are purely businessmen who don't really understand games. He said something like they pretend that they understand games but really they don't have a good grasp on the idea of how games work and thus can't really make a proper business out of gaming because they don't have a good idea of what the gaming community really wants, or the process by which developers should work by to get the best possible results. He mentions this in the context of explaining why he likes working with THQ so much (since he says some stuff about how Danny Bilson understands game development and gives him a lot of room to do what he needs to to make the game as good as possible).

Now, this is just purely Itagaki's opinion and not any straight up facts, but I only brought it up because as soon as he mentioned that I felt that there might be some bit of truth to that. I do think that the people running companies like Capcom and other big gaming companies these days are primarily businessmen, but businessmen who don't understand the business of gaming specifically, but just pretend to. I do think that you need to have a firm grasp on the perspective of gamers in order to make proper business decisions related to games. As for the sales thing, it seems to be more of a problem with Japanese games. Western companies generally seem to take criticisms into account to make a game better even if it initially flops, and will at least give it a few attempts before dropping it. With the Japanese games, though, it seems to be that if even one game in a franchise doesn't sell well then its at the very least in a danger zone of sorts (and in many cases they just drop the series).

I understand and accept the fact that gaming is now a multi-million dollar business and will be treated as such, however any good business people should understand their products, and if we have people who don't quite have and understanding of gaming specifically at the head of gaming companies, we will obviously get less than desirable results. Perhaps I'm looking too much into this, but that's just one possibility, I feel, that may be the problem with the mentality of how modern games should work.

I think Inafune said the same as well. And after he left, all this shit happened to Capcom, so there might be some truth there.

He also said the reason why Nintendo is so popular is because people like Iwata are in charge who actually made games and understand what both the audience, executives AND the developers want. It's probably why Nintendo's output has been of such high quality this gen, but its too bad most don't take from their example and instead actively try to avoid them.

Funniest let's play (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/ir/suede/suede-played/32086-ninja-gaiden-sigma-level-1) that I have ever seen for an NG game, yet (well actually ProtonJon has the funniest ones fro the original NES games, but this is the best one for the 3D games so far). I'm not usually a fan of these types of videos but since its NG related and I love the game to death, a lot of the humor really strikes home with me.

My favorite line in the video was something along the lines of: "Apparently in the world of Ninja Gaiden if you have gaping holes in your defense than you deserve to die...."

Even I didn't really realize how ridiculous that line in the game was until the Suede pointed it out in this video.

New pre-TGS screens (http://www.famitsu.com/news/201109/images/00049718/UGZFGzbHnI86asiM9WM6ShPg3e8MK2Xv.html) are out on Famitsu's website. They show Ryu in a desert setting this time, by the looks of it, which while not the most stellar of environments at least looks more interesting than the boring London level. Also, the new design for the bow looks admittedly cool, especially with how it now appears to be collapsible and folds up when Ryu puts it on his back.

I just thought it funny to mention that this game in many ways seems to parallel NG3 from the NES. It has more of a focus on futuristic technology and machines and robots and such among the enemy variety (along with mostly humanoid enemies), and also is the only 3D NG game now to feature a desert level (with NG3 on the NES being the only classic game to feature a desert level). It also still seems to be the weakest link in the series compared to the first 2 games, much like how NG3 on the NES was considered to be the weakest entry in the classic series, so its definitely living up to the NG3 title in that regard (though, to be fair, the original and un-butchered version of the game is quite good and still at least feels like NG-proper, which is currently more than you can say for the 3D NG3).

I have to admit....I laughed my ass off after watching the new trailer. For decades Ryu Hayabusa has been a video game character who just kills 1-dimensional enemies without a second though (and for that the player does so as well). It just seems hilariously contradictory in this trailer that he would even give one random dude the chance to beg for his life. I mean, in the world of NG he kills evil guys anyways, so why should it matter to him. At any rate, I don't really care about the story trailer, because I've never cared about story in an NG game (but if it somehow turns out to be interesting, which is doubtful, then that's just an additional bonus). I want to see if there are any new gameplay elements that can perhaps make me feel at least a little bit better about this game, because as it stands I'm still sorely disappointed with what I saw of its E3 gameplay earlier this year. Now's the time to see if Hayashi actually listened to any fan feedback since then.

Also, one thing that ticks me off is now that they have announced DOA5 for 2012 as well, I have to wonder just how seriously they are taking their games. It takes a long time a lot of focus just to develop a single game that's good. Splitting Team Ninja's focus into more than 1 game may just make for 2 completely mediocre games as opposed to 1 great game that stands out. Why can't he just wait until he's done with one game before announcing and working on another one? I'm not even a fan of the DOA games but I'm sure DOA fans would feel the same way about wanting Team Ninja to focus on that game after NG3 is done rather than developing both games simultaneously. That just splits up the effort and both games would end up being poorer products for it.

So, apparently the guy that Team Ninja highered to write the story for NG3, Masato Kato (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2011/09/14-1/video-ninja-gaiden-3-consequence-trailer), is credited as being the original writer for the first Ninja Gaiden on the NES, as well as JRPGs like Chrono Trigger (which is the only game in the entire genre that I've ever beaten) and FFVII. You know, if this game were meant to be a call-back to the NES classics and Hayashi learned not to take a damn story about a ninja running through modern cities so damn seriously, I would actually be excited for an over-the-top and absurd story in the vein of classic NG games. As it stands it just looks like another dull attempt at generic story-telling, and while it'll certainly be better than the previous games by default which barely even had what you could call stories, it still looks overly cheesy mostly in the bad ways, rather than in a fun and tongue-in-cheek way.

Either way, though, I never gave a shit about the story-line in NG games, but since Hayashi stresses how much he's focusing on it (especially over gameplay, apparently) so damn much, than it better as hell be fucking great (which is obviously never going to happen), otherwise I'll have another reason to be pissed at him for focusing on something so trivial (for an NG game, anyways) over the gameplay.

Hey guys, remember when the enemies in NG used to be so aggressive, like how in NGB they were so intense and constantly looked for openings or weak spots in your defense, forcing you to keep on your toes and always moving? Or how they would blow up their own arm to damage you and use suicidal attacks just to try and kill you in NG2?

Now let's look at how Hayashi, who clearly stresses how much he has payed attention to what fans love most about the 3D NG games, gives his own spin on how enemies should be handled in NG3. In other words, we go from insanely threatening and skillful ninjas and demons who cared nothing for their own lives as long as they could take you down, to these guys over here:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fh2.abload.de%2Fimg%2Fng3ena9ru.gif&hash=a8ffec3b05855b5624007e4d3eda81b89cbdf45d)

So, yeah, NG is dead. It was a good run while it lasted. RIP.

... I think I'm good with waiting for Shinobi 3DS as my ninja go-to game this year.

I still wish Sega would have let Platinum make a new 3D Shinobi game to go with it. It might give the NG series the kick in the pants it needs.

You should try NGB someday if you have the chance....that shit's a good game, even if it may not seem too appealing at first. ;D

Anyways, based on how Hayashi flat out ignored the success of Bayonetta and instead cowered away into trying to pull this shit by making NG a pussified version of its former self, I doubt that he would pay much more attention to even a ninja-themed game made by Platinum.

E-K will love this. (http://www.destructoid.com/ninja-gaiden-3-s-hero-mode-lets-you-take-it-easy-211880.phtml)

:whuh:

Oh, the hero and ninja mode thing was mentioned back at the beginning of TGS, so I knew about it. To be honest, I don't have any problems with it. If they were going to make the game more accessible to newcomers, I'd rather let them have the option for auto-guard and auto-evade then to dumb down the enemies and ruin the whole game for the hardcore fans. Games like DMC4 and Bayonetta also did something similar without compromising the challenge for more serious players, so I'm not against that type of addition to the game itself.

Here's the problem, though: Based on what I've seen, they DID basically dumb down the enemies anyways. We've gone from seriously threatening enemies that would blow up their arms and even use suicidal attacks all for the sake of killing you to a bunch of worthless whiners who constantly beg for their lives in the middle of the actual gameplay itself. That's the exact OPPOSITE of what NG's gameplay philosophy has always been about. I mean, that's seriously disappointing. I at least would be able to stomach it more if the enemies learned to shut up once in a while instead of repeating the same 2 or 3 stupid phrases a million times over in the span of just a few minutes. Its at times like this that I'm glad that enemies in the previous NG games at the very least knew the art of silence and not annoying the fuck out of you with their constant blabbering. Who the fuck even gives a shit about what the things on screen that you're slaughtering have to say. Imagine if in the classic NES NG games every enemy stopped to fucking talk and beg Ryu no to kill them while still attacking him anyways.

So, yeah, the dumb-ass Hayashi doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. Even if you pretended that this wasn't an NG game and looked at it in his own rights as a general action game, the way he's applying his ideas to this game are still beyond stupid.

So, instead of just bashing NG3 which I already know is going to be lame, I thought it'd be better to reflect on why I think NGB is such a great game, and why I wish I could experience another action game like it.

If you ask other people what the best game of the last decade was, you'd probably hear something like Halo, Resident Evil 4, Half-Life 2, Grand Theft Auto (insert number or subtitle here), or something along those lines, and to their credit they are all great games that have had a ton of influence on their respective genres.

However, as for me, my favorite game of the last decade was Ninja Gaiden (specifically Ninja Gaiden Black, but the game in essence is just Ninja Gaiden). Really, its more coincidence than anything else that I'm a fan of both the classics and the new 3D iterations, because both series have little to do with each other aside from sharing the Ninja Gaiden title (actually in Japan, the classics were titled Ninja Ryukenden, with Gaiden only being used for the American release of the old games). Many people don't know this, but back when work was first starting on Team Ninja's new action game in 1999 which was then untitled, it was never actually meant to be a Ninja Gaiden game. About half-way in development Tecmo just told Itagaki to slap the Ninja Gaiden title onto the game for marketing value, so he did, but really the game is its own action game that really isn't supposed to be related to the classic games, and for the most part it doesn't other than having Team Ninja add in some last-minute references to NG, such as making the main character Ryu Hayabus and adding in clever nods and references to the old games. A fun fact is also that one of the main creators of Ninja Gaiden was Itagaki's mentor back when he started working at Tecmo in the early 90's, and his first project there involved helping out with the SNES trilogy port of the classic series (that and Tecmo Bowl, I believe).

Anyways, its interesting looking at the game's development history, because originally it was supposed to be for the Dreamcast, and it certainly would have been interesting to see what the game would have been like had it finished development on that system. Needless to say, when Sega went under and stopped making DCs, Itagaki decided to move production of NG to the PS2, but that decision only lasted a short amount of time because after Itagaki received a dev-kit for the XBOX, he immediately decided to move the project to that console since it was the most powerful (in terms of processing power) of the current-gen consoles at the time. Another piece of interesting trivia which I've never been able to verify for accuracy is that after announcing Ninja Gaiden at E3 '02, Tecmo held an online poll asking fans which console they would most like to see a new NG game on, and the one that got the most votes was apparently the Nintendo Gamecube, which makes sense being that the classic NG titles (excluding the arcade game) were all NES titles back in the day (not including any ports). I don't know why they would do that when Itagaki was already clearly developing for the XBOX, though, so that piece of information might have been false or I may have read it wrong.

Anyways, the fact that Itagaki WAS developing it for the XBOX got him and Team Ninja tons of hate from fans of the classic games. That, and the fact that Ryu wasn't wearing his classic costume (which was later featured in NGB as an unlockable outfit) and that classic NES characters weren't present in any previews of the game.

So, that's just a brief history of the game's development, but overall it spent a total of 5 years being developed, though it took really long partly because of all of the system changes that the game had to go through. However the time and effort put into this game showed when it was released. At the time, and IMO still to this day, it had some of the best and fastest action around. The controls were perfect in how tight and responsive they were, and it really nailed the hack n' slash formula that many games follow today, even though NG doesn't really get any credit for that. It was different from DMC's combat style, which was equally great but was mechanically very different, but to me that was a good way for the game to stand out on its own rather than coming off as a pale imitator of DMC.

To me, an already amazing game was made even better when they re-tweaked it through 2 Hurricane packs and then downright perfected the mechanics with the release of Ninja Gaiden Black a year later. With NGB, the game now had 5 difficulty levels ranging from Ninja Dog to Master Ninja, and a total of 50 mission scenarios with 4 difficulty settings applicable to each. In the story mode, enemy types and spawns differed in each difficulty level to some degree to keep a level of unpredictability, items cost more, and the locations of items that you found were changed around, such as with items that you would find in a certain chest on one difficulty would be completely different from what you would find from that same chest on a different difficulty. In some cases it would be a healing elixir on normal mode but then it would unleash some bats to try and attack you on hard mode. It kept the experience fresh and interesting on each new difficulty, and it made overcoming new challenges even more rewarding.

The game itself could easily take the average player from 15-20 hours to complete on a first run through (it actually took me 20+ hours to complete my first time though, though that includes time I spent dying and retrying some tough boss fights). On top of that Mission Mode was so extensive and challenging that it added well over a hundred hours of play-time value to the game just in terms of trying to beat the missions on each difficulty and trying to maximize scores in them. Really, this game gave you at least as much value as other top-profile AAA games like RE4, and even more value than a lot of other ones that were considered to be amazing games and some of the best of the decade.

The game did get unanimous praise from critics, but it seems to go by mostly forgotten by them these days, though admittedly it didn't have nearly as much influence on its genre as other high-profile games did in theirs (the influence is certainly there, though), and if one were to pick the best hack n' slash game from a more objective stand-point it would usually be the first DMC which is understandable since on top of still being a great game it is also arguably still the most important game in the genre, being that it actually invented it to begin with. Still, while I have the highest level of respect for DMC, and even other great hack n' slash games and other action games in general that get a shit-ton of recognition, NGB will always my my personal favorite. I've just been kind of disappointed that ever since then the series has never been able to come close to matching the quality of that game for me.

I really like Ninja Gaiden II despite the flak it gets from a lot of people, and to me its a flawed game but still a great game at its core if you can look past its flaws, which can personally do. However it was no NGB and while I respect it for being very different from the first game in a lot of ways (whereas most videogame sequels would just play it safe and stick to the exact same formula as the first successful game without much deviation or new features added), some of those changes and the overall rushed feeling of the product ended up making it an inferior game to the first one instead of a superior one (although some of the changes were indeed superior). To me the NG games also have the best melee-based combat out of any action games made thus far, in terms of pure satisfaction and the sharpness of the controls, but of course that's just a personal preference. From what I hear NGS2 felt a bit sluggish in comparison and killed some of the responsiveness, and NG fans who have had the chance to try the demo of NG3 tend to complain about the controls feeling sluggish or downright unresponsive in areas that should control smoothly, so that just shows you how much Hayashi apparently likes to fuck up what the series already had right to begin with.

Anyways, I was just in the mood to annoyingly praise this game and rant about how great I think it is, so that's why I just wrote-up this post. A lot of people would probably think that I rate this game too highly, which is fine as I have to admit that its not as univerally appealing as some other high-profile games, but to me it will always be one of the greats. I think at the very least it deserves at least as much recognition and glory as Bayonetta, another fantastic hack n' slash game and probably the best one that's been released this generation.

One thing I realized that has always pissed me off about the 3D games in this series is how fans, including myself, have to wait an incredibly long time between installments. After Ninja Gaiden released in 2004, all we got for the next 4 years were revamps of that game, and don't get me wrong, I loved Ninja Gaiden Black (its the proper way to do a revamp of an already great game), and I can understand the point of Sigma in that it gave PS3 owners a chance to experience the game, but we didn't get a new Ninja Gaiden game until early on in 2008, 4 full years later. To be fair, at least we got 2 new games that year, 1 being Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword for the Nintendo DS which is a seriously underrated DS game, and the other being an actual sequel which it felt like I had been waiting forever for, and even then the sequel was unfortunately released in a rushed, unfinished, and unpolished state, which was really disappointing despite it being a great game underneath all of its flaws. I was still optimistic though and hoped for a 3rd installment to expand upon what the 2nd game did right, bring back elements from the 1st game that should have remained in the series, and also add in great new core concepts of its own to make for the best action game ever. But then all this shit came up with Itagaki leaving Tecmo and Team Ninja being in a rut for a while trying to get things organized under new leadership.

After that I got severely disappointed once they announced Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 (yet another revamp) instead of a full-on sequel, and in addition to that they announced their involvement in developing Metroid: Other M, which meant that they weren't even working on a new Ninja Gaiden game at the time. Then they finally announced NG3, but only a few months later at E3 fans were treated to huge disappointments as almost everything they feared would happen to the series after it came under new management happened.

To put things into perspective, between NG2's release and NG3's announcement, Bayonetta was released and declared one of the best action games ever by fans and critics. As someone who really admires that game, I was hoping that my favorite hack n' slash series would be able to come back and come out with a more refined game that could compete with it, but instead what I've been seeing is a derivative  8-hour hack n' slash campaign that is completely uninspired and not only removes most of the depth and overall quality of the previous games, but also manages to look below par by the standards of much greater action games. It also has seemingly removed the trademark difficulty/challenge level of the series that fans were proud of. And I don't mean by just adding in an easier mode or something, which people would be fine with, but in that the whole game in general is just too easy, even on Hard mode (according to fans who have experienced the current demo-build of the game). And at 8 hours, its significantly shorter than previous games in the series (with the first game lasting players an average of 20 hours on a first run through, and the 2nd being around 15 hours).

Going back to the issue of how long it takes for a new NG game to come, after this game releases and undoubtedly disappoints fans, whether a new installment will remedy its faults or disappoint us even further, one thing is for certain: it'll take a long time for us to even hear about it. I mean, at least with other series that have a new gave every 2 years or so, if one game is not too great at least it can be fixed with a new game in half the time it takes for a new NG game to come out. I mean, look at the first 3 DMC games: the 1st was great, the 2nd released 2 years later was a disappointment, the 3rd released 2 years after that fixed everything that was wrong with the 2nd game and pleased fans once more. In the case of NG3, fans will be stuck with a sour-after-taste of sorts in the series for quite a long time, and even when a new NG game is announced after that there is still a good chance it'll suck.

So, the new stage demo went up on Gamespot today.

The bad news is that a lot of things that fans complained about are still in the game and won't be going anywhere, but I expected as much since I already know that this is not going to be a true NG game at heart (at least not in my eyes, anyways).

That said, I will say that the new demo showing the dessert stage shows substantial improvements over the boring London demo (the setting is still really dull, though). First off, 2 new enemy sets were show-cased (3 if you count the enemies riding on those dessert hover bikes) and they were both awesome. They both felt like proper Ninja Gaiden enemies as opposed to the whiny little bitches from the London stage. The sand assassins looks fucking cool and I love how they pop out and attack you by surprise (sort of like real assassins ;) ). They maneuver you a lot and also block really competently. I hope they represent more of the enemy types in this game than those pussy terrorists that beg for their lives all of the time. The alchemists were even better. They have a lot of moves that can damage you and they are EXTREMELY offensive. That's what I want to see from an NG enemy. They block you a lot of course, and they also work really well together as a team which forces you to use some strategy in taking them down. My only gripe about them is that most of their attacks are grabs and I hate when enemies have too many grab attacks, but they can still be skillfully avoided which should still make them fun to fight.

Also, the new bow is bad-ass. I love how it slows-down when you actually aim with it to make aiming and shooting much less needlessly frustrating like in previous games, and I also like how it folds up and fits onto Ryu's back so it doesn't look as bulky as the old bow.

I also liked how there was some pretty competent platforming in this stage of the demo. I'd like to see more platforming in the actual game as long as it is as fluid as that and actually has a good camera to support it this time around.

That said, I still think that the game is disappointing compared to previous NG games, but if this demo is indicative of the quality of the rest of the game, it should at least be decent to play through once. Its definitely no NGB, though.

Just as I expected multiplayer looks way too chaotic and it feels like people attack without rhyme or reason. Its just way too chaotic, and the frame-rate is inconsistent in some videos. Also there are no elements of strategy that I can really see in how the multiplayer is executed. At the very least they could have included different weapon pick-ups using weapons from previous NG games for some variety.

Or, better yet, they should not have created multiplayer at all. Why?

1. Because NO Ninja Gaiden fan I know (you know, the people who actually buy these games) ever indicated that they wanted any form of multiplayer except for maybe co-op which a few people did want.

2. Because it gives them an excuse to do a half-assed single player mode that's also half as long (probably even shorter) than previous NG games, and even less than half as in-depth with how limited its gameplay mechanics are.

3. Because IT'S A FUCKING NINJA GAIDEN GAME!

Who the fuck thinks of team deathmatch when they think of Ninja Gaiden? This isn't Halo or Team Fortress 2, its Ninja FUCKING Gaiden.

Hell, even the developers and Ninja Theory have enough brains not to try and add in some gimmicky multiplayer for DmC, despite all of the other stuff that they may or may not being doing wrong with it.

What's with this common mentality among developers that now every game must have some form of competitive multiplayer, whether it even fits the specific game genre or not, in order to sell well?

Is just having a lot of good single-player content not good enough to sell a game anymore, even if it has more content than most gimmicky multiplayer in other games?

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 08, 2011, 11:16:10 PM

2. Because it gives them an excuse to do a half-assed single player mode that's also half as long (probably even shorter) than previous NG games, and even less than half as in-depth with how limited its gameplay mechanics are.

This, unfortunately, has become far too common with modern games.

So....I think the alternate weapons that we've had in previous games that should have been featured in this game have been confirmed as DLC now (well, maybe not confirmed, but the most recent OXM article on NG had a representative state that it was highly probably to see other weapons featured as DLC sometime down the road). So, yeah, every weapon that isn't a sword must now be payed for separately. I believe that Team Ninja has officially sold out on its fan base.

Also, the game may only take 4 hours to beat. :(

Anyways, I really want to try and go back to playing NGB sometime since its been a while since I've last played it. It kind of saddens me how forgotten this game is these days. Sure it got its recognition when it came out, but its kind of underrated these days, IMO.

I hope that rumored 3DS Ninja Gaiden game is a 2D sidescroller. It's been way too long.

Yeah. Team Ninja has pretty much fucked up any potential that 3D NG had to go anywhere beyond NGB, so I'd at least like it if Tecmo could see fit to revitalize the classic 2D side-scrolling NG series that they've somehow managed to ignore for nearly 2 decades now. The funny thing is that there are tons of people with nostalgic love for the classic games who would buy a game like this on day 1 (I'd be one of them if I had the money for a 3DS), and yet Tecmo still makes it clear that they don't give a shit about the classics. Its no wonder why they almost went under after Itagaki left the company. Its clearly run by brainless morons who don't even know what the fuck audiences of their games actually want. It doesn't help that their only talented team of developers is now being run by one of the most unimaginative and boring minds in modern gaming, as far as I'm concerned.

For the record, I'm pretty sure that the upcoming NG3 will either kill the series or at the very least cause it to go through another long drought of having no games in relation to it coming out until someone once again revitalizes it years later. Hopefully it actually goes to someone talented by then.

It's weird because Ninja Gaiden on the NES was pretty big back in the day. Tecmo and Nintendo have a great relationship, NG3 is coming to Wii-U (I expect ports of the first two games eventually, too), and they even helped make a Metroid game.

The obvious thing to try and do is appeal to that base that buys the most Nintendo consoles (older gamers who grew up in the 8-bit era) by appealing directly to them with a Ninja Gaiden 4 type of deal. You advertise it, and I'm sure people would rush out in droves for it like they did for Mega Man 9 and Sonic Generations.

At this point, it's all I really want from Tecmo.

Yeah, people have openly been asking Tecmo to do this for years, and it would especially be fitting to happen next year since that would be Ninja Gaiden's 25th anniversary. The sad thing is that I can guarantee you that it will never happen. Tecmo has clearly forgotten about the series that once made it great (and I count the 3D NG games as a separate entity from the classics, to be honest), and the sad thing is that people have literally been begging them to do this for years (I know people on other boards who have e-mailed Tecmo reps in the past numerous times suggesting that they pull an MM9 with NG). I'd do it myself if I actually thought that Tecmo would listen, but like I said, they clearly don't give a shit. The funny thing is that it would probably sell better than any other game that they are currently releasing, with the exception of maybe DOA5 since that series still has its fan base even after all of these years.

Dead Or Alive 5 seems to show something I've suspected all along:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gonintendo.com%2Fcontent%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F2012_2%2Fnyuolv_thumb.jpg&hash=88cfc0db8e9b471f1e2fc36884ac5174c0f1da19)

They know.

No excuses now, Tecmo.

Well, for that matter, even DOA2, NGB, and NGS2 has that same NES throw-back costume. They've always known about the classic games. But unfortunately that's the closest we'll ever get to seeing them in the modern age of gaming. Tecmo has made it clear that they have absolutely no intentions of reviving the classic style of NG gameplay. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the first 2 games from the new series, but now Hayashi is dragging that to complete shit, and aside from homages like in previous TN games and most recently DOA5, I don't think we'll ever get to see a classic-style NG game again. Well, for that matter I don't even think we'll be seeing a 3D NG game ever again after NG3 comes out, as I'm 99% certain that it'll officially kill the series. Its very telling when almost every actual fan of the NG series (whether its the classics or the new games) thinks it looks like utter garbage.

So....I don't think that anyone on this board is going to really pick up a Play Station Vita, but in case you do I would suggest giving Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus a look. That's at least one game that can't be screwed and is pretty much guaranteed to be good. Well, I'd argue that it might be a nuisance to play a game like that on a handheld, but then again I think it would work out fine. Just don't play the game on Hero mode which TN is implementing into the game. The game is not meant to be played with an auto-guard feature for newbies. It wasn't designed for that, and it would probably just end up forcing your character to get guard-locked too many times since enemies are pretty aggressive in that game.

That said since I doubt anyone here will even consider picking up a Vita anytime soon, I doubt what I said matters much. In fact I'd recommend just getting the actual game on a console instead, but sadly me and Foggle are the only 2 people on this site who are even interested in 3D NG games. :(

As always, I'd always recommend Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword as a great handheld NG game, but I've already given up hope on anyone caring about that game since I'm pretty convinced that I'm the only person on the planet who even gives a shit about that game (honestly, even most NG fans snub the game just because its on a handheld....which IMO is incredibly stupid).

I keep forgetting about Dragon Sword, though I probably should pick it up when I see it since its so cheap.

But really, all I want from this series now is a proper 2D game to send it off, because at this rate it's probably done.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 09, 2012, 06:38:12 PMsadly me and Foggle are the only 2 people on this site who are even interested in 3D NG games. :(

Not necessarily true. :-\

Well, the way I see it, KoeiTecmo isn't too well financially, right now (even in Japan). Maybe if they end up going out of business another company can buy the NG IP off of them and actually listen to the thousands of fan mail begging for a new 2D NG game. That's basically the best hope we have by this point.

As far as Dragon Sword goes, its still the first game I'll be picking up when I finally buy myself a Nintendo DS.

Apparently Ninja Gaiden has a problem counting to 3. 2 great games on the NES, then a third one that would have been awesome if it weren't so horribly broken. Now we have 2 great games on modern consoles, soon to be followed up by a third one that completely misses the point and will probably kill the series once again.

If I ever get a Vita, which probably won't be until 2015 at the very earliest, I will definitely get the Ninja Gaiden port. One of my absolute favorite games, as you know. I must thank you for introducing it to me. ;)

I do intend to buy Dragon Sword some day... I just keep forgetting that it exists. I will definitely get it eventually.

Yeah, and I was SO sure that we may end up finally seeing a Ninja Gaiden 4 in some form. Apparently the series will never make it to that number, though. :-\

As for Dragon Sword, you're not alone. About 90% of the NG fan base forgets that it exists, whether they are fans of the classics or even the new games. ;)

The weird part is that if they just made a new 2D NG game and called it Ninja Gaiden 4, I'm pretty sure half the fanbase would be pretty upset at it and probably claim it's taking the spot of the "real" NG4 or something.

I just want another 2D NG game without the birds.

They could easily just give it some random subtitle like they did for Dragon Sword. I don't think anyone really cares whether it has a number attached to it. To real fans of the classics it'll still be the true NG4 regardless, assuming that they actually make it right.

Here you go, EK. (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/02/24/itagaki-talks-thq-troubles-devil-39-s-third-and-next-gen-consoles.aspx)

QuoteMy friend is a mercenary.

Goddamn it Itagaki! :lol:

QuoteMy game runs at 30. Our graphics engine can draw very beautiful images at 30 frames per second like the Battlefield series.

Aww...

QuoteWhat was the last great game that you played?
I can't remember which order I played, so I can't remember the latest one. Probably Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. That was very fun.

:srs:

Yeah, I read that article yesterday. Itagaki is hilarious as always. I do think its kind of annoying how he announced the game so early on in its development since he's been so tight-lipped about it ever since showing off a brief teaser of it 2 years ago. After that we haven't got jack shit except for a couple of interviews and concept art.

As for running at 30fps, I admit its a little disheartening, but I can deal with it if the game at least runs smooth. I mean, its better to have a game running at 30fps without any hiccups than it is to have a game forcing itself to run at 60fps but constantly slowing down and running into frame-rate problems because it can't handle it. That said I get the feeling that the game won't quite be on the level of speed and intensity of a Ninja Gaiden game, but even so I'm sure it'll still incorporate all of the good elements of a great action game into it that were present in NG, and as for the shooter elements of the game that has to do with how well Itagaki can handle making a shooter. I have no idea if it'll be any good, but here's to hoping the talented people at Valhalla can pull it off successfully! :thumbup:

30 FPS isn't bad or anything (Halo 1 is capped at 30 FPS and runs very smoothly), but 60 is always better for action-packed games such as this one. Personally, I'd rather have a high frame rate than great graphics, but I'm sure Devil's Third will still be totally awesome.

Quote from: Foggle on February 26, 2012, 05:25:31 PM

QuoteWhat was the last great game that you played?
I can't remember which order I played, so I can't remember the latest one. Probably Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. That was very fun.

:srs:

That's just Itagaki's way of saying that he hasn't bothered playing too much since he's too busy actually working on making his own game. And I'm fine with him liking CoD since according to him his game is really nothing like it, even if he does enjoy that game. I also like how he mentioned that the game will support much better melee combat than just the basic "tap a button to hit someone with the butt of your gun" mechanic that most shooters have. It'll probably be just as important as the shooting mechanics, and the way the game is shaping up it looks like its trying to successfully meld both ranged and melee action combat into a single experience. That's nothing new, of course, but most games that have tried that are usually lacking in one of the 2 areas, so hopefully this game can be good at both of them.

I also like how he emphasized that this game isn't going to be so heavy on scripted events like many of its competitors. That just bugs me about most action shooters that come out these days.

Quote from: Foggle on February 26, 2012, 05:43:24 PM
30 FPS isn't bad or anything (Halo 1 is capped at 30 FPS and runs very smoothly), but 60 is always better for action-packed games such as this one. Personally, I'd rather have a high frame rate than great graphics, but I'm sure Devil's Third will still be totally awesome.

True, but the game can still be have that "fast" sort of feeling to it even at 30fps, but it'll probably sacrifice some of that 60fps smoothness in animations and other areas that were present in Team Ninja games (since those all ran at 60fps), but I'm guessing that more than graphics the decision had more to do with wanting to make sure that the game ran smoothly. Ninja Gaiden II had some bouts of slow-down when there was too much carnage happening on screen, and although it wasn't too frequent, Itagaki hated that. He tends to like to have a lot of stuff going on with the AI and the action happening in the game, so I think that's why he settled at 30fps instead of 60fps. It could also be due to the fact that he's had to adjust to a completely different engine that what he used to work with back when he was the head of Team Ninja, so that's probably a factor as well, but overall if the game runs smoothly and is tons of fun I can forgive it for being only 30fps. At this point I really just want to see some actual gameplay footage of the game in motion (the E3 2010 trailer was just a concept promo of sorts: according to Itagaki the actual game looks a lot different in terms of both graphics and character design than what was seen in that trailer).

If it's a choice between 60fps and "narrow" or 30fps and "wide" (since he was comparing between those two specific games) then I'd like to see more wide action. Not so much "open world" or whatever, but battlefields with more space like Halo 1 or Reach. With a good enough combat system that could lead to more exciting opportunities.

While 60fps and "wide" would be amazing... Well, next gen!  :D Consoles are currently hitting their upper limits now, from everything I've seen a game like that can't be made current gen without suffering in some way.

Well, it could be done if it was being made for a high-end PC and not being scaled down for consoles (in which case it would have to be an exclusive), but barely anyone would have a PC good enough to run that, as that shit don't come cheap. :sly:

Knowing Itagaki, its probably going to be the latter of the 2, as he puts a lot of emphasis on the gameplay being completely "voluntary" on the player's part (that's the term he used in one interview, anyways). That is to say that he doesn't want to utilize preset actions like most games do (i.e., QTEs or variations of that, or scenarios in which you HAVE to play one way in order to progress). Also, he's no stranger to large and open levels. Ninja Gaiden/Black was one of those old-fashioned games where levels were big enough to actually warrant a map, and most of the world was inter-connected. You know, the type of game that most action games stray FAR away from being in preference of being completely linear (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but with shallow gameplay most of them have absolutely no replay value whatsoever).

At any rate, I guess I can't really say much until I actually see the game in action for myself. I'm guessing that if everything goes alright in terms of the game's production (let's just hope that THQs recent financial troubles doesn't have any major affects on the production of this game), then we can at least hope to see some real gameplay footage by this year's E3.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 26, 2012, 06:54:54 PM
Well, it could be done if it was being made for a high-end PC and not being scaled down for consoles (in which case it would have to be an exclusive), but barely anyone would have a PC good enough to run that, as that shit don't come cheap. :sly:

If you want the same graphical fidelity that you'd get from the console version, then yeah. But fairly basic rigs can run Battlefield 3 (which is "wide") at 60 FPS provided they turn the graphics settings down. ;)

So, another knock against this game that I just found out is that its one of those games where you can switch the difficulty on the  fly, meaning that its just another case of lazy design, since the only thing changing between difficulties is enemies taking more damage and you taking less. Compare that to previous NG games where enemy sets changed by each difficulty (the higher the difficulty, the earlier tougher enemies appeared, and there were more of them too), and this is yet another step back in content from the long list of stuff this game is excluding.

I'm not exactly sure how anyone at Team Ninja thinks they can defend ANY of these choices as being reasonable and a step up for the series. I understand that change is important to keep a series fresh, and I'd be all for it, but there's a difference between changing things for the better to just being flat out lazy by taking out all variety to a game to make it as standard and derivative as possible. In fact I don't think I even needed to say that sentence. That pretty much just sums up how far this series has fallen.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but with this game only 3 weeks away from release in North America....I really hope it bombs in both fan and critical reception. I REALLY do. At least that way Team Ninja may just get the message that NOBODY is willing to put up with them slacking off on this series just because Itagaki isn't around to force them to actually make a proper game.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 28, 2012, 11:54:29 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this, but with this game only 3 weeks away from release in North America....

Seriously? Wow, I hadn't heard about that at all. Definitely won't be picking it up. Probably never will. But if I do, I'll buy it used.

It releases March 20th here, but yeah, its not exactly something I'm planning to buy on day 1 either, like how I did for NG2. That said, I'll probably still pick it up used in the Summer time and play it anyways, just because its a Ninja Gaiden game. But if I hate it as much as I think I will, then it'll definitely be my last NG game made by this development team.

It's out in three weeks?!?

There's been no real hype at all for it, even from casual action fans.

Well, in terms of there being no hype, this series was always more of an underground hit, since it was more for hardcore gamers. I remember that NG2 barely had any hype behind it either except for from Ninja Gaiden fans. The fact that NG3 is trying to reach out to the casual crowd and still has almost no hype surrounding it just proves how lackluster the game becomes when it loses focus on what made the first 2 games so special in the first place. That is to say, it looks like another generic action game. I could easily see people confusing this game with Ninja Blade and they honestly wouldn't be too far off based on what I've seen of the game in previews and such.

I'm willing to be that the game will receive relatively low reception from both fans and critics alike, though, so maybe if Team Ninja is actually listening this time, they'll realize they're going in completely the wrong direction and keep that in mind for the next game....IF there is a next game in the NG series. I still fear that this game will be the death of the franchise, but maybe I'm just overreacting and jumping to conclusions.

So, being that I finally have a bit of free-time on my hands to get in a few hours of gaming, I popped in Ninja Gaiden II for the first time in nearly a year just to have a little bit of mindless fun. I say mindless in that I was playing on Warrior difficulty, which when I used to play the game a lot because so easy for me compared to the harder difficulties that it almost felt like a joke. Well....boy have I gotten rusty in the year that I've been away from this game. I could still make it through the first level without having to heal (including by using save statues, being that I didn't bother saving at all except for after beating the level itself), and I never died once for what I played through (which was only up to the mid-way point of the 2nd level), but I was really getting my ass-kicked by the most basic enemies in the game. The main reason for this was because my timing was way off. I didn't realize it before when I used to play the game a lot because I got so used to timing my attacks/combos, blocks, counters, and skillful dodging of enemy attacks. However, after having played other action games with much more forgiving timing and looser combat mechanics, coming back to NG2 really shows me how much stricter the game is. Its a lot more tight and responsive than the combat controls for most other action games, but it does require a certain amount of practice to get down right, otherwise you'll just be button mashing for the whole game and will get your ass kicked. Really, though, I like this sort of system. It makes me want to get better at it all over again and really experiment with the different strategical uses for various weapons and their unique combos and such.

From what I've heard from skilled NG veterans who've played various versions of the NG3 preview-build demos via various public gaming events, the combat mechanics in that game are apparently a lot more forgiving than previous games, and the game allows for a lot more button-mashing than in previous games (though they did at least say that Hard mode forced you to start playing a bit more carefully). If the game really does turn out to screw with the basic combat mechanics, then it'll be more disheartening than I thought. I mean limiting the game to only the sword was more than stupid enough as it is, but I really hope that they didn't seriously fuck around with even the combat mechanics of swords in this game as well.

The whole sword-only thing doesn't really bother me, to be honest. By that, I mean to say that I often play with only the Dragon Sword, just because I find it more satisfying to use than the other weapons (I'm not really sure why, though). But it's stupid that they cut all the other weapons out of the game, since I know I'm in the minority there.

I used to be like that because it was easier to use the Dragon Sword, since its sort of like a crutch being that it has some easy to spam attacks and is probably the fastest weapon in terms of getting that initial hit in (which is important since once you get one hit in you can temporarily stun-lock the enemy and get them into a combo). But honestly, I'd argue that relying only on the Dragon Sword is like missing out on more than half of the game. To be honest the other weapons have just as much depth to them as the Dragon Sword, and its clear that the developers put a lot of effort into each one. Its just that they reach require an initial hurdle to overcome since unlike most other games with more than one weapon, these ones are actually all unique to one another and play completely differently. So I can understand only relying on the DS because initially that's all I wanted to do as well, but honestly as far as NG2 goes, I no longer think that they are even close to the best weapon in the game. Most of the hardcore fans gravitate towards the Tonfas, and that's because those are INSANELY fun to use once you realize how you're supposed to use them. They also have the most satisfying UT in the game. ;)

Also, in terms of usefulness, the Lunar Staff is actually by far the most useful weapon in NG2 when you need it on the harder difficulty settings. That said, its only because one one specific ability it has, which is its alternate UT (which is funny because I never even KNEW that some weapons had alternate UTs until my 2nd time playing through the game :P ). Seriously, though, that thing absolutely destroys fiends and rapes most boss's health if you use it effectively. Its almost too overpowered in some instances. The Falcon's Talons are also overpowered, but not to quite the same extent, but they are also quite fun to use.

The other weapons, being the Dual Katanas (which aren't as well-controlled as just the Dragon Sword alone), Kusari-Gama, Vigoorian Flails, and Eclipse Scythe aren't nearly as good as the Dragon Sword or the other 3 weapons on the same level, IMO, but they are still fun to experiment with and definitely each have their own unique charm going for them.

To me taking all of those other weapons out of the game just takes away so much of the soul of a 3D NG game. The Dragon Sword is a great weapon, but I just love having the option to experiment with something new whenever I want to, and I do feel that NG players at least deserve that option even if some such as yourself don't really care to use it (which is fine, but like I said, its still great to have the option available). To me, personally, having an NG game without other weapons is like having a Ratchet and Clank game without any weapons except for the most basic starting gun. To some that may seem like a stretch, but that's really how I feel about it, honestly.

I'm pretty decent with a good portion of the other weapons, but I guess I just like the feel of the regular sword more because I'm better at using it. :P I'm definitely not hardcore enough for the higher difficulties.

Well, Mentor mode is pretty bearable once you get used to it and actually really fun with the perfect level of challenge once you get good at it. Master Ninja in NG2, on the other hand, is a fucking chore. Its very beatable, yes, but it really forces you to utlize some cheap tactics like spamming UTs and such throughout various portions of the game. Trying to free-style your way through that mode means that you're basically just relying on luck half of the time. Its the only part of the game where I do agree with most of the statements regarding BS difficulty and cheapness, because it does cross that fine line between challenging and just being plane unfair. That said Mentor mode is the perfect difficulty setting for me. When I was playing this game a lot, I couldn't bear to go back to Acolyte or Warrior mode because they ended up feeling so easy in comparison that they weren't even fun for me. That said now I suck at Warrior mode too, so it works well enough if I decide to continue playing through the rest of the game during my free-time. ;D

I tried Mentor mode once and the first boss buttblasted me so hard that I almost developed PTSD from it. Path of the Warrior is good enough for me, thanks. :lol:

Acolyte is lame, though. That's like playing Ninja Dog... it's just too easy for a game such as this one.

Yet somehow reviewers claimed that Acolyte mode was still far too hard for new players. Well, maybe they were right for all I know, but I thought it was a joke in terms of difficulty, and I for one always fully admitted that I am not very good at video games, but just merely average at most of them. I mean, you could basically get away with button-mashing through almost every single fight in that mode. Its quite saddening if modern gamers actually consider that to be a challenge....

Yeah, I'm admittedly not very good at vidya games, and I was able to make it through Warrior mode okay. Unfortunately, my achievements were tied to someone else's account by accident, so the internet will never know of my accomplishment (oh noes!). I do plan on finishing my current playthrough soon, though. It's kind of strange that I've only beaten NG 2 once, though... I keep going back to the first game for more.

That's no surprise. The thing is, NG2 has great foundations but its a very flawed game. That is to say that it has a great groundwork (an amazing combat system), and it has some awesome and challenging enemies, but everything else about the game is severely lacking. To put it simply, its an unfinished game, and its all too obvious. Its extremely glitchy in some areas, most of the boss fights are crap and a lot of them feel like they function without rhyme or reason, and there isn't nearly as much thought put into the level design as with the previous game. The game was clearly rushed out the door since Itagaki wanted to leave Tecmo as soon as possible (or they wanted him to leave as soon as possible, I'm not sure which, but either way he had to leave quickly). I really feel like this game still needed another year in development to be tweaked and fine-tuned to be as polished as it possibly could. And no, Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 is NOT what I think a polished, finished version of this game was meant to look like.

As for Ninja Gaiden Black, it was in development for a long longer than NG2, and it was itself a re-working of an already solid game, since NG1 was already the best action game around when it came out. Itagaki just took it and actually finished it with NGB.

Sigma 2 is really dumb. If anything, it feels more unfinished than the original. "Let's replace fun enemy encounters with some of those dogs! Yeah, that'll be great!"

I still LOVE to use this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDAiYc_sy8A) example of how big of a fuck-up Sigma 2 is. :>

So, if nothing else at least its confirmed that fiends are in NG3. I mean its already shitty enough with how it limits you in every other department, so having only human enemies in the game would have been yet another nail in the coffin, but it has been confirmed in various instances that "fantastical creatures/monsters appear as enemies in the game." According to BBFC (http://www.bbfc.co.uk/BDM286423/) (basically Britain's equivalent of ESRB), they even have "zombies" back in this game again. :P

Still, that's not enough to save it from being a piece of shit, but I guess even this little bit of info makes me glad to see that it hasn't totally abandoned everything from previous NG games.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCNdcP0Y_a4) is a really good video I found about how awesome of a game NG1 is. Granted that, I'm not sure why the reviewer seems to think that everyone hated this game, especially when he admits that it was a critically acclaimed game. That said he's totally right that this game got unfairly overshadowed by all of the other big 2004 releases. Had this released either a year earlier or a year later, it probably would have been far more popular and mainstream than it is now (which is to say that its still mainstream, but just barely cross that line between mainstream and a niche title).

The only thing I really disagree with him on (and everyone else for that matter), is that the camera really isn't that bad, especially in NGB where you have the ability to control it manually. It only ever screwed me up a few times in the game, but at least 99% of my hundreds of deaths in this game were my fault, completely. Also, he's right about how after you get over the initial hump in the first couple of levels, the difficulty only ever seems just barely above you're current skill level, so it feels like an attainable goal rather than something that's ridiculously impossible. That's what kept me playing through the game the whole way through. The difficulty and challenge level was just right that it compelled me to get better and beat the next big challenge to move on. Basically this game is difficulty done right.

So, according to a leaked version of the OXM review, this game is pretty much everything I expected: A watered down version of the previous 3D NG games. It does state that the game has 5 difficulty modes, though, and here are the descriptions for each (as worded from the magazine, apparently, according to the person who posted up the info of the review):

QuoteHero: A Nice label for what this pathetically easy mode has always been called- Ninja Dog.

Normal: Might as well call it "wuss-fest 2012" If you're a Gaiden veteran. Do not start here if you've ever completed a Ninja Gaiden game.

Hard: Bad guys get a bit tougher and it takes longer for your ninpo meter to build up. Series fans should probably start here.

Master Ninja: The badge of honor for masochistic gamers. Here you'll face not only tougher foes, but more of them as well. The attack dogs thrown at you here on the very first level aren't seen on the lower difficulty tiers until halfway through the game.

Ultimate Ninja: Itagaki would be proud. Your technique had better be perfect, because one hit from the weakest enemy will drain half of your health. Happy hunting...or more accurately, happy dying!

Ultimate Ninja sounds fucking stupid and its COMPLETELY against what the difficulty of Itagaki's NG games were all about. Both NGB and NG2 never had OHK moves from enemies even on Master Ninja mode. The game didn't punish you for making just 1 mistake, but instead the design took into account that you would inevitably make some mistakes and instead the difficulty was more about adjusting to the current situation and making up for any mistakes that you made as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Apparently nobody told Hayashi this after he made grabs kill you in just 1 hit in Master Ninja mode for NGS2. People hated this mode even more than the original game's Master Ninja mode, as broken as that could be at times. Hayashi claimed that he had listened to fan input, but that's obviously a load of shit. While I have beaten the first 2 games on their hardest difficulties and was looking to carry on the tradition even in this lesser installment of the series (whenever I actually even get to it), it looks as though this may be the first time I don't bother beating an NG game on its hardest difficulty. That's because Ultimate Ninja seems way harder than any previous NG game....but for the dumbest possible reason.

Shit like this is basically the definition of artificial difficulty. That is to say, rather than carefully designing and balancing the harder difficulty levels from the ground up, Hayashi took the lazy way out and just made it so that you die in a couple of hits, and then decided that hardcore fans would like that since apparently he thinks we are masochists. Fucking bullshit.

QuoteHero: A Nice label for what this pathetically easy mode has always been called- Ninja Dog.

From what I hear, Hero mode makes Ninja Dog look like Mentor. Isn't it actually impossible to die on this difficulty setting?

QuoteUltimate Ninja: Itagaki would be proud. Your technique had better be perfect, because one hit from the weakest enemy will drain half of your health. Happy hunting...or more accurately, happy dying!

No, Itagaki would not be proud. That isn't hard... that's just unfair. As you say, this completely contradicts Itagaki's design philosophy.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 09, 2012, 06:35:47 PM
Apparently nobody told Hayashi this after he made grabs kill you in just 1 hit in Master Ninja mode for NGS2.

...Seriously? That sounds absolutely horrible.

Quoteone hit from the weakest enemy will drain half of your health

How in any name of sanity is this considered difficulty? How about just giving enemies more attacks or add more obstacles to levels? Oh wait- effort, I forgot. There's nothing like relying on luck and hope you don't miss-time a single button press otherwise death and restart to rile up the blood. Real difficulty doesn't punish a player; it rewards them for doing well.

Just for comparison's sake, Master Ninja in NGB had new enemies that weren't even on the lower difficulty, and harder/tougher enemies appeared earlier on. The difficulty came in that the enemies had more attacks than before, moved a bit faster, and did more damage to you (they also took more hits, but even they they never became sponges that absorbed all of your attacks as they still went down fairly quickly at the hands of skilled players). Also, some chests spawned enemies while others gave you really weak versions of stronger items that you got in the same locations on the easier difficulties. Also, given that the old games had a shop system, upgrading weapons and buying items cost a lot more money than it did on lower difficulties so you had to spend your essence wisely.

In this game they just made it so that enemies can kill you in 1 or 2 hits on the hardest difficulty.

This is a prime example of how the idea of "hardcore" gaming has fallen so far in the past few years. I love challenging games. I HATE masochistic games. Developers need to realize that there is a clear difference between the 2 of them.

So, going by the launch trailer at least we get a giant T-Rex boss to fight as the traditional stupidly over-the-top boss fight that every game in the series must have. Actually I'd say that a ninja working for the UN and fighting terrorists is by far the stupidest thing in a Ninja Gaiden game ever....which oddly enough may fit the series after all since its always been about stupid but cool things rolled into 1 game (I mean NG1 on the NES had ninjas on jet-packs for crying out loud). That said no NG game would feel right without at least 1 ridiculously over-the-top fight (and robots/mechs don't count, because lots of games have that). A ninja fighting a T-Rex is so absurdly stupid that it just screams Ninja Gaiden, and I actually love it. Its probably one of the only things in this game that I'll be looking forward to when I finally get around to playing it (hopefully its actually a well designed boss fight rather than a QTE-fest, which, given what's been shown of this game up until now, is unfortunately entirely possible).

As harsh as I've been about this game up until now, I should make it clear that I think it'll be a decent enough action game on its own. Its just that my disappointment comes from it being a piss-poor Ninja Gaiden game, as my bias has me hold the first 2 NG games way above almost any other action game ever made that I've played.

Also, fiends were confirmed a while ago for mission mode, and while I'd prefer to have them in story mode as well, at least I will still get to fight fiends in this game (I also hear that the mission mode in this game gives you the option of playing solo or going co-op, which if that's true is a really good thing for me). That said the replay value of this game will obviously be shit compared to previous NG games, but you all know I'm still going to cave in and get it anyways. As much as I hate what this game as become, I don't exactly want the NG series to die, so I'll support it this time. I just REALLY hope that Team Ninja is smart enough to listen to fan-criticism from this game and actually make a proper NG game next time (if here is a next time). As it stands, this is merely just an appetizer compared to previous NG games, which are much meatier and have a "full-course" value (if that makes any sense).

T-Rex boss sounds awesome. I'm sure the game will be at least as good as Ninja Blade.

The funny thing is that even Ninja Blade had more weapons than this game....and they were all swords too, but at least they played differently from each other (whereas the different swords you get in NG3 only have slight combo variations that are barely noticeable to anyone who doesn't have the Dragon Sword's moveset completely memorized). Also, it may sound weird coming from me but Ninja Blade isn't really a bad game. Its just a derivative and uninspired hack n' slash, with way too many QTEs and brain-dead AI, but its not poorly designed or anything like that. Honestly its combat system is about as competent as that of God of War, and while it doesn't boast nearly the same level of sophisticated visuals it is at least self-aware of itself and its absurdly over-the-top for the fun of it. I don't really like it myself, don't get me wrong, but it got ragged on way more than it deserved, IMO. I at least liked what I played of it much better than what I played of Dante's Inferno (which for some reason seemed to get its own little cult following among gamers, even though its more of a God of War rip-off than Ninja Blade is a Ninja Gaiden rip-off....which its really not).

At any rate, if Ninja Gaiden 3 is going to be my hack n' slash "appetizer" for this year, then I'm definitely counting on MGS Rising to be my "main course." I'm really depending on Platinum Games to deliver, here.

Does the T-Rex boss coem equipped with lasers and missiles straped on to it? Because that would almost be enough for me to get the game.

Almost.

Well, I can't really tell from the trailer, but it has little red eye things implanted into it (which sort of makes it look like a cyborg dinosaur) and it appears to catch a rocket/missile in its mouth at one point in the trailer if that means anything at all. As for me, its a fucking Ninja vs. a T-Rex. If I was 8 years old I would think that's the coolest thing in the world. In fact I do actually think its one of the coolest things ever, just to give you an idea of how immature I still am. :sly:

Seriously, though, its kind of sad that for an NG game this is one of the only few highlights that I can see for the game, and that's assuming its any good to actually play through; though, according to the OXM review it was the best boss fight in the game, if that means anything at all.

That'll probably be the only thing in this game I'll go out of my way to check out. Of course, it's not quite as awesome as a Ninja fighting a four-armed Werewolf-like creature in a Roman-style Colosseum, but it's up there.

I just remembered that the bosses in this game don't have health bars, that's probably gonna suck.

Maybe I'll finally get a copy of Ninja Gaiden Sigma once I've cleared a few games off my plate. I'd get Ninja Gaiden Black, but none of the Xbox controllers I have are in good shape, and I've been on the fence on NGS2, partly out of the stuff about it said in this thread, and partly because it removed most of the blood and gore apparently. I know that one sounds petty, but in a game that's supposed to be difficult like Ninja Gaiden, there's something rewarding about seeing an enemy that's been giving you lots of grief get sliced into pieces for me, like a good way to satisfy your anger y'know?

Yeah, Ninja Gaiden Sigma 1 is fine. It removes some of the puzzles from the the first game in order to make everything feel more action-oriented in general, but even so it doesn't change too much up. I don't like the added in Rachael missions which you're forced to play through, but her chapters are short so they aren't much of a hindrance to the pacing of the game. Everything else about the game is still great, IMO. Though, be forewarned that NG may give you its fair share of camera troubles. People exaggerate the problems with the camera, IMO, but I admit it can be uncooperative at times. That said it only takes one button tap to re-center it behind you, and I honestly prefer it to any fixed camera angle since you get complete control over it yourself, which is why I think its not too big a problem once you get used to how the camera works in this game. My favorite part about the game is the enemy AI. What separates NG from DMC, Bayonetta, God of War, etc., is that its enemies don't just willingly give you the opportunity to attack them. They will block you when they can, and they are very aggressive and keep you on your toes. It makes the combat feel more strategic and it really feels rewarding to clear a room full of tough enemies that forced you to fight at your very best to overcome. And keep in mind, in the first game at least most enemies don't rely on cheap tactics to give you a tough time. They actually each have a pretty diverse selection of moves and abilities to use on you, so it makes them less predictable until you've had enough experience fighting each of them.

As for NGS2 compared to NG2, each game has their problems, but as you already know I'm in the crowd that prefers NG2. To be fair, barring Master Ninja mode, NGS2 undeniably has more balanced difficulty all the way up to Mentor mode, but it also screws around with NG2's gameplay formula in baffling ways, and I'm not even referring the lack of blood and gore, here (though I do totally get what you mean about it being a really rewarding feed-back for successfully taking down an enemy; it really is very satisfying, as sick as that probably sounds ;) ). For one thing, the number of enemies on-screen is significantly reduced, but they don't take the trouble to make them tougher to match NGB's approach (since that game had fewer but tougher enemies, whereas NG2 had more enemies but ones that were weaker individually, and challenged you by attacking you as a team). Also the game just feels barren due to the greatly decreased amount of enemies you encounter. That said I can't be fair by just saying to pass it off without giving it a chance. Try downloading the demo for NGS2 on the PS3 and compare it to NG2's demo on the XBOX360 if you ever get a chance. That'll give you a pretty good idea of how different each game is from one another, and which style of gameplay you might prefer.

Unfortunately, the NGS2 demo doesn't seem to be on the PSN store anymore. Kind of a pain since I only have a PS3 and all.

I wonder what they're going to change for the Wii-U version since that's apparently the "Sigma" version of the game.

They'll probably just add in some additional content to it. I doubt that they'll find creative ways to use the tablet controller or anything like that, so it'll probably just be more of the same from the XBOX360/PS3 versions of the game. Now, if the game hadn't actually gimped out on the weapon variety and player choice options in general (there are no shops and consequently no items in the game, and you only get one weapon at a time and they are all swords with generally the same basic move-set throughout the entire game), then they could have used the tablet as a menu which allowed you to use items and switch weapons and such on the fly. That would be great and add a WHOLE new gameplay element with its own level of depth to the game. In fact after saying that I'd love to see a WiiU version of the first 2 NG games utilizing that feature.

I wouldn't be suprised if the first 2 NG games got ported to the Wii U, preferably as a sort of "Ninja Gaiden Collection".

It would be smart for them to give options for them if they did. Include:

Ninja Gaiden
Ninja Gaiden Black
Ninja Gaiden Sigma
Ninja Gaiden 2
Ninja Gaiden 2 Sigma

They would have more than enough space for all that. Not to mention adding touch screen menu controls would be extremely easy to put in.

And if they're unable to fit them on one disc, they can just spread them across 2 disks. So Disc 1 would have all the versions of Ninja Gaiden 1, and hte same would apply for disc 2.

Knowing Hayashi it would just be the 2 Sigma games since he actually believes that they are definitively/objectively superior to the original versions of each game (and people say that Itagaki is arrogant :> ).

I'm going to make a slight adjustment to Desensitized's list for accuracy of what would make the optimal Ninja Gaiden collection package:

Ninja Gaiden WITH Hurricane Packs DLC (this is because the Hurricane Packs are literally no longer available through any legal means if you haven't already downloaded them, since XBL for the original XBOX was finally shut down for good about a year ago)

Ninja Gaiden Black (this basically makes releasing the original version of Ninja Gaiden without the DLC pretty pointless, as NGB has all of the stuff that it had plus extra weapons, more enemies, Ninja Dog mode and Master Ninja mode, and Mission Mode; and to be honest it has most of the stuff from the Hurricane Packs as well, except for the Intercept ability which was taken out because it kind of broke the game....)

Ninja Gaiden Sigma

Ninja Gaiden 2

Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2

Also, keep in mind that if these ports were untampered with, they would also come with the emulated versions of the SNES version of the Ninja Gaiden trilogy and the original arcade game, since those were included in Ninja Gaiden and Ninja Gaiden Black, respectively. So, it really would be the ultimate NG collection (it would have all of the good NG games, anyways). The only noteworthy game that would be excluded would be Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword, but that game is impossible to port to any other console than the DS because it was specifically designed to work with the DS's stylus and dual-screens. Well, maybe it would actually be possible to get it to work on the WiiU's tablet controller, so maybe that could be included as well, somehow.

With a special bonus of Ninja Gaiden 3 NES- the Japanese version with the English translation!  :sly:

Talk about easy money!

Yeah, I'd love to play the original Japanese version of that game. Someday when I actually have the money I'll track it down and buy it, no matter how expensive it is....well OK I have my limits, but still, my obsession with Ninja Gaiden will lead me to buy it at some point in time, along with a working NES console. I did play the SNES version of NG3 which was more or less based off of the Japanese version in terms of making you take normal damage instead of double damage and giving you infinite continues, but it had some odd technical flaws that were apparently never present in the NES version of the game (which is only what I've heard, but I'd take a gamble on believing it since unlike the 3rd game I do know the first 2 games well enough to spot technical flaws in the SNES port of them, as minuscule as they may be).

Alright, now this is one of the few genuinely (http://www.destructoid.com/ninja-gaiden-3-to-receive-free-dlc-packs-223812.phtml) great pieces of news that I have heard related to this game. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't make up for all of the other things that Hayashi has fucked up in this game, but its at least good to know that Tecmo and Team Ninja haven't yet sunk to the levels of Capcom in terms of their business decisions. Then again, I can't help but feel that this is somewhat of a response attempting to alleviate some of the fan back-lash that this game has been getting over the past few months in order to get on people's good side. That said, I'm not complaining about free DLC one bit, so I say bring it on.

Alright, one more good bit of news that I found out from a thread from a fellow NG fan is that fiends are in fact featured in the main game after all, though just not as much as in previous games. He got the information from the game's official strategy guide, which he somehow snagged a copy of even though its not supposed to officially release until the game's launch date, along with the game itself. According to him the game lists 26 different enemy types, so apparently enemy variety IS still there, even if most of them are humans (which I'm fine with as long as they are well-designed enemies, and aren't like those terrorists from the first stage that beg for their lives).

It seems like this game may not be as bad as I thought, though don't get me wrong, I know it'll still be a bad NG game. That said, at least its not totally devoid of variety, so it may have a bit more going for it than the extremely shallow experience that I have been expecting up until now.

That sounds cool. Hopefully Hayashi gets more right than he does wrong. I'll probably pick this up when it's $20.

YES! (http://www.famitsu.com/images/000/011/380/4f5daca2b617d.html)

I knew that even Hayashi couldn't be stupid enough to completely rule out any non-katana weapons from the game. Its still a pitiful weapon's roster of only 3 different weapon types compared to that of NGB and NG2, but at least we get 2 very great weapons from NG2 back (as FREE DLC, no less).

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.famitsu.com%2Fimages%2F000%2F011%2F380%2Fl_4f5daca4d35e1.jpg&hash=b4f20e9692f47d9c31347c0168bd2ac35e985205)

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.famitsu.com%2Fimages%2F000%2F011%2F380%2Fl_4f5daca7ecb72.jpg&hash=12f8bfa1fe6d35eee2f49410b41730c0016789f2)

Here's the official OXM review (http://www.oxmonline.com/ninja-gaiden-3-review?page=0,0).

The reviewer seems to understand this game from both an NG fan's perspective and a casual gamer's perspective. Its clear that this game, while probably fine enough in its own right, was not really made for NG fans. Hayashi is a sell-out, that's not surprising since he's been a sell-out ever since Sigma 2, but probably the most hurtful thing is when the review flat-out nails the major problem with this game: most gameplay decisions from previous games are taken out of the player's hands. Comparing this game to Itagaki's Ninja Gaiden games is the perfect example of what I consider to be wrong with the modernization of video games. There are actually people out there who think that stripping a game of content, strategy, and overall replay value in favor of a more "immersive and seamless" experience actually makes a better GAME. That's just the most idiotic logic that I've ever heard.

I'm still going to get the game at some point in time, probably after I finish this semester of college since I just flat-out don't have the time for it right now, but my only hope at this point is that Team Ninja listens to fan criticism and takes the next Ninja Gaiden game in the right direction. Of course, there may be no next game if this game doesn't sell well, and honestly this game has has virtually NO marketing whatsoever, and without fans hyping it up on the Internet like they did for the first 2 games, I doubt it'll sell as much as they did. Hopefully it still sells just enough to warrant a sequel and hopefully Team Ninja does respond positively to criticism, but that's just wishful thinking on my part, and unfortunately its REALLY a stretch for something like that to happen. I'd be more bummed out about this, but I've had months to prepare for disappointment, and at least MGSR is coming out this year so it should be able to satisfy my craving for a deep and satisfying hack n' slash action game.

So, some fans have gotten the game early, and one big general impression from most of them (whether they like the game or not) is that being limited to only one weapon makes the combat feel REALLY repetitive, and most of them claim to have already been dying to rekindle one of the classic weapons from the previous game as early as the 2nd stage, especially since there is no upgrade feature and all of Ryu's main moves for the Dragon Sword are unlocked from the start. Basically the only initiative to keep playing (that is to say, the only thing that you're rewarded with after all of the repetition) is the next cutscene.

As for the story (the thing Hayashi apparently thinks excuses all of his outlandish cuts from this game) has very mixed opinions among fans. I have no idea what its about, since even though I still fully expect it to suck (even if its being written by the guy who wrote the stories for the NES NG games, which haven't exactly aged all that well), I have a rule as to not spoil a story-line for myself, even that of a Ninja Gaiden game (being that the 3D NG games barely have stories to begin with, except for apparently this one). Despite the previous games hardly throwing out any story, apparently this game's story has a lot of references and call-backs to it somehow from what I've heard, which to me is more weird than cool since I have no idea what you could possibly call-back to when it comes to previous NG games that would make any coherent sense in a new story, but apparently its one of the few things that "some" fans seem to like. On the other hand, fans of the NES games are pissed since this game seems to have virtually no call-backs to those games despite Hayashi promising that it would (I'm not surprised that you can't take what a guy says like that to heart; I didn't expect him to acknowledge the classics the slightest, despite him trying to pull in old-school NES fans by saying that this game would pay more homage to those games).

That's about all I know of the game so far, although there are videos up there but to be fair I'm not going to watch any of them and just wait until I can get the game at some point and judge it for myself. Then I'll review it and say what I honestly feel. Having said that, none of what I've heard from fan feed-back so far is a surprise to me. This game seems to have turned out to be exactly what I expected: a derivative action game using the NG series title for marketing value (and even then, the series never had that much marketing value among modern gamers to begin with).

Here's a post from another board that comes from a fellow NG fan (one of the more reasonable one's who doesn't hate on the game JUST because its not the same game as previous NG games):

QuoteWell I finished it. WTF did I just play. This game feels so far removed from Ninja Gaiden games it's unbelievable. If I sat here and listed all my complaints and nitpicks I'd be here too long. There will be enough people doing that next week. I tell ya , say what you want about Itagaki , but this @$% wouldn't of been made on his watch.

Rather than bash it apart I'll just do some spoiler info for those that want it & I'll answer specific questions people might have. The best I can say about it is it's a decent action game.....but a terrible "Ninja Gaiden" game :(

**Spoilers**
You don't fight Genshin , he is in the game briefly but you don't fight him.

The Fiends we know and love we have seen are not in Story Mode , they are in Coop Missions.

The BSNs are only in 1 level , & now they never shut up.

The Bosses are pretty terrible. The final Boss is basically a reskinned Giant Buddha Statue.

The only Boss that was fun to fight was the thing the guy in the wheel chair turns into on the air craft carrier

There is an On Rails bow shooting segment ....felt soooooooo out of place in a Ninja Gaiden game. Made me sad :(

I dunno I'll post some more stuff later I guess /sigh

So yeah....it looks like us NGB fans will never get that true sequel that we've already waited 8 years for. I mean, the NG series just keeps taking steps back and gets worse with each installment (NG2 is still awesome, though) instead of moving forward and getting better....:'(

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 17, 2012, 09:59:31 PM
There is an On Rails bow shooting segment

:butbut:

With dual analog? Even if that wasn't in NG3 that would be a bad idea.

Quotethe thing the guy in the wheel chair turns into on the air craft carrier

And this is written by the guy who wrote the NES games? I guess he really did lose his mind when writing NES NG3.

He's also apparently credited for being the story-writer of Chrono Trigger, so....IDK, maybe he just realized that Hayashi was too busy thinking that he's so deep and creative to realize good story elements from bad ones, so he wrote a half-asses script with completely ridiculous characters in about 20 minutes and handed it in for a quick pay-check. At least I'm sure that's how the first 2 NG games were written, so that's really nothing new for the series as far as I'm concerned. :sly:

Here's gameplay of the Claws if anyone's interested. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYDeOzoaGos)

Yeah, I saw that yesterday. Its nice to see the claws in action again, but seeing that its already integrated into this game's mechanics this well got me and others to realize that the game had been developed with the Claws and Scythe as part of the full package to start with. The developers didn't say that and released it as DLC which is free with the online pass in order to get people to buy the game new....since they know that no fan would pass up the opportunity to use more than just a freaking katana in the game. Its nice to have their inclusion, I'm not complaining about that, but even then its still sad that these were both weapons already featured in NG2....along with the Dragon Sword....and 5 other completely different, unique, and equally versatile weapons....and that game had dismemberment as well which served more than just an aesthetic purpose since it played into the game's strategy....and yeah, I think you can see where I'm going with this. No matter what they do at this point, it just can't be ignored that this game is a HUGE step back for the series.

Also, here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnZ-N0bTpXY) some gameplay footage of Ninja Trials mode (which is this game's equivalent of missions mode from the first 2 games). To be fair, it looks MUCH better than the main game and far more challenging (plus it has fiends in it), but it still doesn't make up for the game's shortcomings, IMO. Still, its probably just enough to warrant my purchase of the game (the sad thing is that its still more content than the average non-DMC or Bayonetta action game would offer, but its way less than what people would expect from a Ninja Gaiden game).

So, apparently, even if you're playing Ninja Trials solo, there isn't any way for you to pause the game in that mode....well, let's just hope that people who end up doing really good on any of the missions don't have a sudden urge to go to the bathroom while playing through that. :>

No, but seriously, how the fuck could ANY half-competent developer forget to leave a feature like that out? :whuh:

Would yanking out the controller pause it? Sometimes that works on games that don't allow pausing (which is dumb).

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 18, 2012, 10:11:49 PM
Would yanking out the controller pause it? Sometimes that works on games that don't allow pausing (which is dumb).

Pressing the Xbox/PS button might also work.

Sounds awful, though.

So, apparently the best thing about the game is that we get a Robert T. Sturgeon cameo....which means that a cameo is more interesting than the actual gameplay. At any rate that's just the opinion of the more hardcore NG fans who have played through the game already. Still, at least its good that the NES NG games get SOME form of attention in this day and age.

IGN Gave it a 3/10, lol. Its no surprise seeing as how they were hating on the game the moment it was unveiled, but overall this may be the first time I'm actually kind of glad a game is getting a really low score (knowing them its probably somewhat exaggerated, since this did score that much lower than even Ninja Blade, after all). Don't get me wrong, I'd probably think its shit too (though the average reviewer probably won't be that harsh on the game), but if the game gets low enough review scores it'll force Hayashi and the rest of Team Ninja to never pull shit like this again. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm actually kind of hoping that the game does get bashed by critics this time. Its already getting torn apart by fans who have gotten the game early and played through it.

IGN also gave God Hand a 3. This could very well mean that Ninja Gaiden 3 is the best game in the series!

No, in this case....I kind of agree most of the stuff the reviewer is saying. Don't get me wrong, a 3 is still ridiculous (even the pros who have hated on this game said that its THAT bad like what IGN is saying), but I actually bothered to read this review and everything the reviewer railed on about this game is kind of the exact fears I had about what this game would turn into. Keep in mind, the reviewer is clearly a HUGE Ninja Gaiden fan, so he's reviewing it in comparison to the first 2 games as opposed to just an action game in general. Still, since I'm a Ninja Gaiden fan, I won't be surprised if I end up hating it as much, myself.

Also, the difference between this and God Hand is that God Hand actually has depth to it....and the hacks at IGN just couldn't fathom how to play it. On the other hand, all of the NG veterans who have already played this game have unanimous confirmed that it dumbs down the combat so much to the point of making it downright shallow. So in this case its not like IGN doesn't know how to play the game, because there isn't much to the game to begin with. Also, most fans actually agree with the IGN review on the point that being limited to the sword makes the game feel WAY too repetitive and tiring to play through (most people also even agreed that they were sick of it by the end of the 1st level). Keep in mind that's coming from hardcore NG fans, but seeing as how I am among them, that isn't exactly good news for me....

For comparison, here (http://www.vg247.com/2012/03/19/ninja-gaiden-3-reviews-polarize-the-gaming-press/) are all of the review scores that have come out for this game so far....DAMN! This game is pretty fucking polarizing, as you can already see. The reviewer that I think seems to be the most fair to it is Videogamer (giving it a 5/10; for comparison they gave NG2 a 9/10).

To be honest, there's only one other person I'm REALLY interested in hearing the opinion of in regards to this game. Right now he's probably sitting on a cushioned sofa with his signature leather jacket and shades laughing his ass off at Tecmo. :sly:

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 19, 2012, 10:33:48 AM
To be honest, there's only one other person I'm REALLY interested in hearing the opinion of in regards to this game. Right now he's probably sitting on a cushioned sofa with his signature leather jacket and shades laughing his ass off at Tecmo. :sly:

"Ninja Gaiden 3? I haven't heard about that. I think you're lying. It doesn't exist. If it does exist, then it's shit. I haven't played it, it's not real, but it would definitely be shit. Even worse than Devil May Cry. Yeah, that bad."

DLC Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOjiX-UTHMw#!)- It may sound cool that its free, but keep in mind that ALL of that content is recycled material from NG2 (both of the weapons as well as the bosses). And of course NG2 still had way more weapons than this.

I was all set to support this game even if it would be a mediocre action game, but fuck it, I'm honestly waiting until it comes down in price. Impressions from fans have been fairly negative, and a lot of them are honestly claiming that the IGN review is pretty spot-on to the game's problems (even if it doesn't necessarily deserve a 3/10), which is that the game is so shallow and one-note that it has absolutely no substance to it. Also, just keep in mind that the people who said this pretty much hate IGN for their low review scores of other games, as a lot of NG fans I know also happen to be big-time fans of God Hand (just for the record ;) ). Any shortcomings that NG2 may have had seem liked minor nitpicks now, and even fans who didn't like it say its pretty much a masterpiece compared to this game (and apparently the story that they put so much focus on is so atrociously bad its actually hilarious....which in its own way is kind of a good thing, since its still fun to watch just to rip apart for all of its plot holes and terrible writing :lol: ). Oh yeah, and the T-Rex boss fight has become a laughing-stock among fans. Its by far the worst boss fight in Ninja Gaiden history because its such a joke. Seriously, just watch a gameplay video of that boss fight. The T-Rex's AI is so pathetically stupid that I guarantee you'll laugh your ass off at how much that thing fumbles around (you don't even have to do anything to stun it, the fucking thing automatically trips itself up in battle).

Needless to say, if anyone here ever has the interest in trying a modern Ninja Gaiden game, Do NOT start with this game. In fact avoid this game altogether and you'll be fine. Just start with NGB, or even NG2 for that matter (just keep in mind that its a flawed game so don't expect perfection). Hell, even Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 seems like fucking brilliance compared to this piece of shit. I kid you not. Its disappointing, but I'll still play it eventually, and if nothing else fans at least assure me that its so bad at some parts that its actually hilarious enough to make me laugh out loud, so at least I'll get "some" form of entertainment out of this.

Normally I'd say that I hope that Team Ninja "Dog" learns from their mistake of taking this game in the completely wrong direction and instead stick with and improve upon what works in NG4, but after this game I'll just be far more satisfied if they agree to just flat-out NEVER touch the Ninja Gaiden series again. I'd rather let it die out with just one bad game (or 2 if you want to count NES NG3, though even THAT game looks good when you compare it to this!) than have its horribly beaten corpse dragged through the mud in such a pathetic manner.

I HATE to have to agree with IGN, but I've seen more than enough of this game in action to realize as an NG fan that this is just a self-indulgent piece of shit. Yosuke Hayashi thinks he's being deep and meaningful by taking the series in new directions, when all he did with this game was take out almost EVERYTHING that made past games great and replaced them with things that plenty of OTHER action games have done and have done MUCH BETTER than this game. And even then he barely put anything new in the game compared to what he took out. So, essentially he just neutered the gameplay mechanics to the extreme and called it a better game. I hope he gets fired from being the director of Team Ninja. He doesn't deserve that position one bit. I can't wait to see how bad DOA5 bombs whenever that comes out.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 20, 2012, 11:14:03 AM
Team Ninja "Dog"

:lol:

Oh yeah, I'm curious... how does that "YOU WILL FEEL YOUR SWORD CUTTING THROUGH BONE AND TISSUE" shit work? Sounds like it'd be pretty disgusting and needlessly slow down the gameplay. Does it actually alter the gameplay significantly?

It completely disrupts combos and is annoying because there's no way to control it (it happens at random). I mean its kind of cool-ish the first time you do it....but by the 50th time (at which point you would still be on the 1st fucking level) you'll be pretty damn annoyed by it. It pisses me off because I was hoping NG would improve upon its already amazing combat system from NG2 to compete with Bayonetta which currently has the most robust combat system in an action game yet....and yet we get this shit. It can't even be used strategically because it happens at complete random without any player control over it whatsoever.

Also, if you want to know exactly what's wrong with this game from level-headed reviewers, check out this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHA2fSl5Cc0) video review. It sums up the game more perfectly than anyone else has done, so far.

Hayashi has basically proven to everyone that he and the rest of Team Ninja are absolutely useless without Itagaki. This was his first time to build a game from the ground-up as the leader of the development team, and he absolutely failed in every conceivable way possible. And its not due to anything that could have excuses like time or budget constraints, and it wasn't a problem of the game having any major technical bugs. He just took out great gameplay mechanics that fans and even critics loved about past games, and instead replaced with with flat-out TERRIBLE gameplay design decisions. They are so obviously bad that I have to wonder why NO ONE at that company stood up and questioned any of them. Does nobody at Team Ninja or Tecmo know how to make a decent action game (or even a competent game in general) any longer?

This is why I love Destructoid (aside from Sterling, of course).

List of things wrong with this game that I noticed in the video alone:
"Before you even get to the title screen, it gives you a quick time event of Ryu taking off his mask"
"He takes off his mask and there's, like, no pageantry to it at all" "And he looks like a fuckin' pansy, too."
"If you're playing a game where you're playing as a ninja fighting a giant metal dinosaur and it's boring, something went wrong."
The Robo-T-Rex model looks suspiciously similar to the one from BulletStorm.
"This game is one of those that likes to tell you repeatedly how to do stuff like 'push B to open a door'"
"It sure must be an important moves list if I've never had to refer to it once."
No progression at all. "Pretty much what you can do at the start of the game is what you can do at the end of the game."
"There are no items." What the shit? How do you heal or replenish ninpo?
"Muramasa store is gone in this one"
"There's no collectibles, no chests"
"There's no combo counter"
NO MORE ULTIMATE TECHNIQUES? WHAT THE FUCK HAYASHI
ONLY ONE NINPO ATTACK? WHAT THE FUCK HAYASHI
"Throughout the entire game... that same dragon animation"
"They added a lot of quick time events" "They added A LOT of quick time events"
KUNAI CLIMBING? I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I'M SEEING. WHAT THE FUCK HAYASHI
"There's a broken fence. I can't jump over it. I have to run down the stairs" "You can't jump anywhere"
"If it is glowing, you need to attack that part. That's pretty much every boss fight"
"The bosses don't have life bars"
"There's a stealth segment"
"It's a soulless game" "It's like what someone who doesn't like video games might think of video gaming as"

Holy shit this game sounds awful. Doubt I'll even pick it up used now.

Yup, And as you can imagine with me being the huge NG fan I am, it REALLY hurts me just to know that this game was even crapped out into existence. Hayashi just put out one big-ass shit-stain on what I consider to be one of the greatest action-franchises of all-time (or at least it WAS one of the greatest before this game was released).

As far as I'm concerned, Devil's Third is Ninja Gaiden 3. I mean, it even has "third" in the title.

It's like how Bayonetta is really the fourth Devil May Cry since Capcom skipped over # 2 for some reason.

Well, Devil's Third is technically a different genre, but according to Itagaki its a TPS that incorporates elements of both fighting and hack n' slash games (and Ninja Gaiden itself was a hack n' slash game that incorporated fighting game elements into it), so it'll be interesting to see what the gameplay for it looks like in action. Knowing Itagaki it won't just be some standard shooter where you primarily use your guns and your melee weapons and martial arts skills turn out to be just some close-quarters melee combat gimmick. The way he'll design it, the game will probably play out like a hybrid of Ninja Gaiden and Vanquish, where you are tactically required to mix up your strategy between using heavy firearm assault and crazy over-the-top melee combat. I really hope he finally shows off some real gameplay at this year's E3, since he totally left his fans hanging at TGS last year despite saying that he would be showing off the game at that time.

Alright, I saw that one scene of the game where Robert T. Sturgeon makes a cameo with his trademark sunglasses like in the NES  NG2. That's pretty much the only genuinely cool part in the entire game, IMO.

Everything Kotaku hates about Ninja Gaiden 3 (http://kotaku.com/5894896/heres-everything-i-cant-stand-about-ninja-gaiden-iii)

QuoteThere are times in life when you shouldn't mess with a good thing. To me, Ninja Gaiden III exemplifies this. Why are there Quick Time Events in Combat? What's with all the cheesy British stereotypes? What the heck happened to the Ninja Gaiden I know and love?

In the video above, you'll see exactly what I mean. In it, we present every weird and questionable design decision I came across in the game.

Come back Itagaki. We miss you.

That video is fucking hilarious....and disturbing at the same time, seeing as how its the bastardization of an entire franchise.

Ugh, the fact that you don't get a choice on whether or not you kill the soldier begging for his life bugs me. What the hell is the point of a scene like that if you don't get to choose? No More Heroes had those same "slow-walking exposition" gameplay bits as well (and it got pretty annoying in that game too) but those only happened right before you reached a save point.

If nothing else, at least Ryu has a pretty cool voice (Troy Baker for the win).

It pisses me off more than anything else because for what little character Ryu had since the NES games, at least he was always portrayed as a classic honorable protagonist. Hayashi probably thinks he's being dark and edgy by pulling shit like this, but he's just fucking with over 2 decades of gaming legacy by making Ryu just as big of a douche as a character like Kratos in a scene like this. Even Dante wouldn't be that much of an ass-hole. This is the type of characterization that I HATE in gaming. Somehow developers and other people think shit like this is "bad-ass," when its really just stupid and gratuitous.

Ryu's voice actor is fine in this game, though I preferred his NG2 voice actor (Josh Keaton, from TSSM) as he seemed to just fit the character better (granted that Ryu was actually likable in previous NG games unlike the dick he is in this game). Of course, I prefer Ryu in these games when he mostly doesn't talk unless he feels the need to. He makes a much better "silent"-type character.

Also, I'd just prefer if situations like this never came up in an NG game altogether. This is the polar opposite of the enemy philosophy that Itagaki had (in that in NG games, enemies existed to kill you, not the other way around). In NG2, even if you cut off a ninja's leg, he would still be crawling towards you ready to give up his life with a suicide kill. In this game, if you so much as touch one of these pansies they start begging for their lives. Enemies like those aren't even worth killing. :oo:

So I'm watching a playthrough of the early bits of NG 3... did you know that the first enemy you kill in the game is not only taken down with a quick time event, but also crawls away and begs for his life until you finish him off? Sickening.

That's been known ever since E3 last year. Didn't you see me bitching about all that shit endlessly on these threads for the past few months? :D

Notice that enemies crawling away from you is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Itagaki's philosophy on enemies (and really game design in general). In Ninja Gaiden II, enemies always came at you, and even after losing a limb they would still come towards you ready to give up their lives with suicidal attacks just to take you down. They were completely aggressive and didn't intend on giving you any breathing room. Even if you cut off one of their legs, they would slowly crawl towards you inch by inch, and wouldn't give up until one of you finished off the other. In NG2, if you mortally wound an enemy (without actually, you know, cutting off any of their limbs....which is pretty ironic for a game that is all about emphasizing "cutting" according to Hayashi), they will beg for their lives and crawl away from you. That's just pitiful, and Itagaki's Ryu wouldn't see such enemies as even worth killing. Hayashi's Ryu is a fucking pansy. Itagaki once said that in other games, enemies existed for you to kill, but in NG games, enemies existed to kill you. Its a gameplay design philosophy that I was quite fond of, and its one of the core pieces of an NG experience that made it stand out from every other game in the action genre. Hayashi basically stripped this entire series of its identity with NG3 in order to make "his" NG game, and I'm not opposed to him taking a different direction of Itagaki and putting his own spin on an NG game, but I am very much opposed to it when "his" version is nothing more than a bad collection of all of the modern gaming trends and cliches all rolled up into one boring as fuck game.

If Hayashi wanted to make a game about the consequences of killing and the moral dilemmas it presented, then fine, but it should NOT have been a Ninja Gaiden game (he should have actually been creative and made a new IP), and it shouldn't have been something so pretentious that it lets increased focus on story be an excuse for decreased focus on gameplay with actual depth to it (and even in that regard the story is even WORSE than previous games, because its told just as badly, except now there's more of it that you have to sit through than ever before). Furthermore, after having seen so much of how the game plays out, Hayashi is a complete amateur designer and I can see that he tried to talk big and arrogant like Itagaki, but the difference between him and Itagaki is that Itagaki can actually BACK UP his arrogance, something Hayashi clearly forgot about.

Also, the whole consequences of NG3 isn't even done remotely well. Early on there is an interactive scene in which a soldier begs for his life and you have to press a button to cut him down. I thought that maybe it was some generic moral choice sort of thing that other games would do and that you could choose to let him go. It turns out that its just a glorified QTE and you have to cut him down no matter what, so what was even the point of putting something like that in there? At least if it gave you a choice and had some repercussions on later events in the story it might be mildly amusing as a gameplay feature, but no, Hayashi was so blinded by his pretentious "vision" that he couldn't even get basic game design like that right.

Also, this game got lashed really good by critics, and for once I'm happy about the negative review scores, because while the NG series didn't deserve such an atrocity, Hayashi, Team Ninja, and Tecmo really did for being so out of line and so full of themselves. They had no interest in actually listening to what fans wanted (which was basically an improved NG game with the best aspects of NGB and NG2 in one game). They were more interested in cutting corners and just copying other gameplay elements from other games that don't fit in-line with NGs style of gameplay and which just do it better than an NG game ever could. For me, Ninja Gaiden is about challenge, skill, precision, strategy, and FUN (yes, I consider all of those elements to add up to a fun game), and this game delivered absolutely NONE of those elements. Its like Hayashi forgot somewhere along the line that he was supposed to be making a game, and that games, by definition, are meant to actually be fun to play, aside from whatever pretentious notions he thought was supposed to define a game.

At this point I hope Tecmo realizes just how fucking lost they are without Itagaki. I'm not saying that the man is the best developer ever or that he's even on the same level as some of the greatest developers of all-time, but the man knows GAME design and what most people generally want to see in a game, and he comes up with creative ideas to integrate into games that adds to their depth, challenge, and overall level of fun, and that's something that clearly NO ONE else at Tecmo seems to be aware of. Fuck this company. I don't think I'll ever buy another NG game again, as long as its made by this team. Call me if and when they ever outsource an NG game to a development team with actual talent behind it. Then I "might" actually be somewhat interested in checking it out.

What fun is it to kill enemies running away from you?

Just to be clear, this game (to me) is so bad that it makes Ninja Blade look like a fucking masterpiece (and no, I'm not even joking). Every other so-called "bad sequel" to a game series that I know of probably can't even compare to this. I would much rather play Devil May Cry 2, Metal Gear Solid 2, or Resident Evil 5 (single-player, at that) than this piece of garbage.

If even that's not enough, let me put it this way: compared to this game, NG3 on the NES is actually legitimately great. Once again, I'm not joking in the slightest (and I'm not just talking about the superior Japanese version, I'd rather play the unfair North American version that we got as well).

Its not that this game is mechanically flawed (aside from being god awfully shallow) or has lots of technical bugs or glitches or anything like that. Its that this game is soulless. It has no heart to it. That may sound corny and useless to some people, but it basically means that this game has absolutely 0% substance. There's nothing to it. It holds your hand the whole way through and its even an insult to casual gamers, who I know could at least put up with more challenging games than this piece of shit (the game's difficulty is below average; whether you're playing on Normal or Hard, just mash "X" and 99% of the time you'll win; even casual NG fans have confirmed this).

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 22, 2012, 02:17:31 PM
Furthermore, after having seen so much of how the game plays out, Hayashi is a complete amateur designer and I can see that he tried to talk big and arrogant like Itagaki, but the difference between him and Itagaki is that Itagaki can actually BACK UP his arrogance, something Hayashi clearly forgot about.

Itagaki's arrogance is also funny as hell. His Top 5 Most Hated Games list (Tekken, Tekken 2, Tekken 3, Tekken 4, Tekken 5) is just brilliant.

Hayashi somehow had the balls to call NG 2 and Bayonetta "outdated." What a joke.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 22, 2012, 02:20:00 PM
What fun is it to kill enemies running away from you?

My thoughts exactly.

Quote from: Foggle on March 22, 2012, 03:01:41 PM

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 22, 2012, 02:17:31 PM
Furthermore, after having seen so much of how the game plays out, Hayashi is a complete amateur designer and I can see that he tried to talk big and arrogant like Itagaki, but the difference between him and Itagaki is that Itagaki can actually BACK UP his arrogance, something Hayashi clearly forgot about.

Itagaki's arrogance is also funny as hell. His Top 5 Most Hated Games list (Tekken, Tekken 2, Tekken 3, Tekken 4, Tekken 5) is just brilliant.

Hayashi somehow had the balls to call NG 2 and Bayonetta "outdated." What a joke.

What the hell does that even mean in this context? Those games were released fairly recently. Had he said that about the original Devil May Cry and God of War, I would maybe understand hwere he's coming from (though I still wouldn't agree) since it's been quite sometime since those were released.

God I hope that Metal Gear Rising show's him what a real hack'n slash game is.

Quote from: Foggle on March 22, 2012, 03:01:41 PM
Itagaki's arrogance is also funny as hell. His Top 5 Most Hated Games list (Tekken, Tekken 2, Tekken 3, Tekken 4, Tekken 5) is just brilliant.

In that regard, he's actually just joking. He definitely doesn't like Tekken (but he has said that he honestly doesn't hate it THAT much, either), but he has a lot of respect for Katsuhiro Harada, that series' director. They actually had a pretty harmless rivalry as fighting game developers back in Itagaki's DOA days, and in an interview last year Harada admitted that he kind of missed having people like Itagaki around since he quite enjoyed the exchange of trash-talking and insulting one another in a mostly non-serious way. They even met up for a double-interview and went at it and had fun roasting each other for old times' sake in a Famitsu magazine interview last year. So believe it or not, despite what he says he's not really on bad terms with most big-name competing developers. Basically Itagaki does speak his mind, but a lot of people in the West take it as him just bashing other games and their developers, when its really just him sort of showing his sense of humor and sticking it to his rivals. He's also the type of guy who doesn't give a crap what haters say. I love how when some gamers and maybe even a few critics bashed in the first NG game on the XBOX for being too difficult, he simply retorted that they just weren't good enough for his game (as in, they weren't worth the GAME's time, lol :P ). Shit like that is fucking brilliant. I wish we had more developers who could speak their mind like that. It leads to some pretty fun interviews, at the very least.

Here's a post from someone on another board that kind of explains Itagaki's relation with other developers that he "talks smack about."

Quote^^
the funny thing about the bashing is that it is just a form of "developer" trolling.

I was going back and forth with Hideki Kamiya on twitter, and he told me that these game directors constantly bust each others balls and bash each other's games. He even tweeted me a cool pic of him, Itagaki, and Hideo Kojima together.

We just dont get the Japanese culture and their sense of humor some times. Also, I'm sure some stuff gets lost in translation from Japanese to English as well.

QuoteHayashi somehow had the balls to call NG 2 and Bayonetta "outdated." What a joke.

Wait. Hayashi has balls? That's news to me....:SHOCK:

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 22, 2012, 03:23:33 PM

Quote from: Foggle on March 22, 2012, 03:01:41 PM
Itagaki's arrogance is also funny as hell. His Top 5 Most Hated Games list (Tekken, Tekken 2, Tekken 3, Tekken 4, Tekken 5) is just brilliant.

In that regard, he's actually just joking.

I know, that's why it's hilarious. As your quote says, I'm pretty sure he's actually friends with Harada, Kamiya, etc. and that's why they're always giving each other shit. It's really funny and kind of cute.

So, Tecmo has opened an online survey (http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/form/ng3_eu) to collect fan reception on the game. That said, that 500 character limit is not NEARLY enough to list the problems with the game, and I doubt that they'll even listen to a survey for real, but I did it anyways because its worth it to at least give it a shot for NG fans to have their opinions heard (or I guess read, in this case) for once. At any rate, I heard that after DMC2 Capcom held a survey of their own for what fans wanted to see improved in the series, and it turns out they actually must have listened since then we got DMC3, a complete 180 in quality and by far the best game in the series to date (IMO), and that was of course without Kamiya on board to supervise the game. That said, its still a total stretch for something lucky like that to happen with NG, but I figured that with NG being one of the most important gaming franchises to me, personally, it was worth me sparing a few minutes of my time to basically just tell these guys to get the series back on track and not totally abandon what worked about previous games. That said, given the low review scores for this game, I have a feeling that it won't sell well and it may be doomed to fade into obscurity, but on the off chance that it doesn't, I'd at least like a future NG game to be actually good and fun to play again.

Ninja Team simply needs a good director in charge of them. If anything, this game proves that Hayashi is NOT it. The game's ideas can be flawlessly executed, but if the director is giving them bad ideas, there's little they can do except implement it as well as they can.

The answer to the problem is to simply get a new director.

Well, I should clarify that "technically" Hayashi wasn't the director of this game. Officially he's the producer. The actual director is some guy I can't be bothered to remember the name of. That said going by all of the interviews leading up to this game, it was clear that Hayashi was the main man behind the scenes, calling the shots and saying what belongs in the game and what doesn't. He seems to have taken credit for the ideas, so he may as well have directed this game.

But yes, you're right. Team Ninja is a talented team of PROGRAMMERS. They can make great looking games with great mechanics....if they actually have a competent leader who leads them in the right direction. I'm sure Hayashi is a brilliant programmer (after all he headed a lot of the main programming for Ninja Gaiden Black, believe it or not), but he's an incompetent director. He doesn't have the creative prowess or talent to actually design and make an action game from scratch. People may have liked the Sigma games, but those were still just Itagaki's games with Hayashi tweaking them to his preferences. This was the first time Hayashi got to have a big role in leading an action game that he and Team Ninja built up from scratch without any base game made by Itagaki to work from, and it proves that his leadership of the team was clearly too weak and uninspired.

The NG 3 GameFAQs boards are hilarious.

QuoteHoly s***! *idea*

Tameem and hayashi-chan should team up and make a cross over game! It would be the best thing EVER!!!!!!! XD

QuoteI'm with you on that.

Imagine...

Listen to me on this one...just hear me out..

Dante and Ryu

Yes...Dante and Ryu

Both dual kunai climb.

Boom....the world would explode in anticipation for a Dante and Ryu co-op kunai climb.

QuoteIt be a game soley based on kunai climbing really tall structures by alternating trigger buttons and throwing shurikens at pigeons as you scale mountains, skyscrapers and planes as you progress each level.

It be a game with deep meaning about life and looking deep into your heart for the answers.

Kunai Climb over that to your very soul and let loose with trigger buttons.

I bring you

KUNAI CLIMB - DmC x NG

You know, one thing I have always praised the Ninja Gaiden series for was its superb combat animations. I mean, other hack n' slash games have good animations, but Ninja Gaiden is just on a whole different level. Back when the first game in the 3D series came out in 2004, it was WAY ahead of its time in this department, with a flow to it that even few action games today can come close to matching. You really get a closer feeling of martial arts in this game's combat than in other games that attempt the same thing, IMO.

I bring this up because that's one thing the first game did so right that even the sequels basically just recycled the same animations for the most part. Of course, Ninja Gaiden II added in quite a few more of its own, but its something that the first game can really attest to since even to this day those same animations are still being used and it still looks good in action. Yes, even in NG3 at least the game "animates," well. But, that kind of brings me to my point....I've watched a good deal of gameplay of the game, and did you know that literally 99% of that game's animations are completely recycled from the first 2 games? Now, like I said, the first game was so far ahead of its time that even the 2nd game stuck to its animations, but it still added MANY more new ones. When it came out with the dismemberment feature, it added a plethora of new weapon animations in the form of finisher moves and even how enemy attacks animated when they were missing specific limbs. In other words, even though it obviously recycled things from the first game, you could tell that a lot of effort was still put into enhancing the game in every possible aspect, even the areas it was strong in.

I was thinking that the only areas NG3 looks OK in is during segments where Ryu isn't constantly being interrupted by QTEs and can just free-form his combat, even if its only with just 1 weapon....which is also obviously just recycled from previous games that actually has WAY more than just that to recycle from, but I digress....

Anyways, I noticed that quite a few of the "new" animations (which is basically part of the few "new" things which I felt it even had to offer given how much it recycled stuff from previous games while actually dropping most of the other stuff they had and not actually adding anything back to compensate for it) for this game which I thought looked kind of cool were in fact also mostly recycled from previous games. Most of the only new animations this game had to offer were deliberately highlighted in the QTE-like segments of combat....except even a lot of those weren't new. For example, that move that replaced the Flying Swallow where he stabs the enemy from behind and tosses him aside was actually not even a new move, or at least not a new animation. Its kind of obscure but if you played Ninja Gaiden Black on Very Hard mode or Master Ninja, you would encounter tougher ninja enemies and they would have new moves not previously seen. One of them was the very animation in the move that Ryu used to replace the Flying Swallow. Also, those finisher moves that you see him perform on enemies are actually just recycled OT's from NG2.

Well, at any rate that was just a fun bit of trivia that I felt like bringing up mostly out of boredom. I said that more to highlight how far ahead of their time the older 3D NG games were that they can still have less common animations of their's used as highlighted pieces of combat in the new NG3, and most people (including many fans) don't even realize that none of it is really new stuff.

It also highlights just how lazy and cheap Tecmo and Team Ninja are. I have just started to realize that most of the new stuff that this game is using is not new at all. Its just recycled from previous games but they try to execute them in a different way that looks more like modern Western action games, and surely enough they fail miserably at it.

Also, I still can't get over the fact that they were willing to recycle so much but couldn't bother to recycle ALL of the weapons from NG2. That makes them pretty big dumb-asses in my book. I mean, the game would then be criticized for not doing much new, but EVEN then it would still have way more combat depth and variety than most modern action games out there, and it would have probably gotten higher review scores just for that (and it would have been cheap to do, too). In that regard, whoever's decision it was to approve the use of only 1 weapon in NGB seriously needs to be educated in the most basic fundamentals of good game design....actually, in that case, they don't deserve to be making games, period (the DLC doesn't count for shit....and that's recycled too, anyways....and its STILL not even close to as much as what NG2 offered in weapons' variety).

The sad thing is that NG 3 would have been far better even if it had simply been little more than a glorified level pack for NG 2 (or even NGS 2).

Pretty much. Like I said, I would actually be more forgiving of Hayashi and this game IF the so-called changes he were brining to the table were something unique and which made this game still stand out from the crowd. If it was a risk that just didn't pay off, then I could live with that. What pisses me off is that he talked big as if he were really taking a big risk and as if he were somehow pulling off a "less is more" sort of thing by somehow only giving you the sword and a gimmicky mechanic that lets you "feel what its like to CUT someone" (which ironically enough actually only further LIMITS combat since now you can't even free-form combos with that mechanic kicking in at random, and being completely out of the hands of player control). He also saw fit to remove the game's currency systems and shops, and basically didn't let you do anything in the game except what he wanted you to do. "LESS IS MORE DOESN'T APPLY TO GAMEPLAY CONTENT YOU AMATEUR DUMBASS! Seriously, someone needs to smack this guy upside the head to get that message into his head. He claims to be a big fan of the old-school NES games and said that he wanted to bring the series back to his roots. If that were true, he should have known (as any fan of the oldschool NES games as well as Itagaki's NG games, for that matter, would know) that what made people a fan of those games in the first place was the exciting challenge they all offered, forcing players to come up with good strategies to overcome tough situation after tough situation. The difficulty level of NG3 is such a joke that even mainstream gamers would find it insultingly easy. This guy has no idea what he's doing.

Also, the so-called changes that he made to justify cutting out so much out from prior games weren't anything new at all. They were just new to the Ninja Gaiden series, and Itagaki never incorporated those into NG2 (even though they were popular gameplay mechanics in Western games even at that time), for a reason. A very obvious reason. They don't fit, simple as that. Hayashi tried to force stuff like QTEs, scripted segments in which you have little control over your character and are forced to proceed in just one direction, and other useless set-piece moments that do nothing to enhance the actual gameplay mechanics of the game. Not a single thing that Hayashi "added" to this game was creative in the least. He just stole them from other games that use those mechanics far better than he could ever implement them.

Yesterday, after playing it over my cousin's house at her son's 1st birthday party, a friend of the family let me borrow Ninja Gaiden II. I believe it was after midnight when I started playing. Got to the 2nd stage again after getting their for the first time yesterday. I'm getting used to the camera (shut up, I don't want to hear a lenghty rant about the camera...again) and I'm loving the Falcon Claw's and the Lunar Staff. It makes me sad that this is going to be the last available good hack n' slash for awhile.

Also, I realized I was on Warrior and not Acolyte when I noticed the chest at the beginning was missing and the enemies were clearly harder and had more difficult types among them. Back in 2008 when Ninja Gaiden II and Devil May Cry 4 were the very first games I brought for my 360, I must have skipped Acolyte because I thought it was the ignorable Easy mode like I do for all games but this is Ninja Gaiden so I don't mind going through all the difficulties. I forgot what part in the 2nd level I left off on but I do remember that I leveled up the Lunar Staff and Falcon's Claws.

My only problem with the game on Warrior is that it actually gets a bit too easy later down the line when you fully upgrade most of your weapons since they don't really ramp up the enemy difficulty that much. That said Mentor is by far the best difficulty in tihs game, and it feels like Ninja Gaiden proper pretty much the whole way through.

The weapons in this game are great, and they each have their own strengths and weaknesses that make them fun to experiment with in different situations. The Falcon's Talons are great but they also have a really cheap and exploitable FS transition into ID move which newbies can spam (I refrained from doing this, though, because it just wasn't actually much fun to abuse cheap tactics in a Ninja Gaiden game). The FT at level 3 have some of the coolest combos in the game, and they are the 3rd fastest weapon in the game so its easy to chain combos with them.

The Lunar Staff is downright overpowered if you realize that its alternate UT absolutely rapes anything that gets in its way. Its not my favorite weapon in the game for combos, but it is by far the most practical and powerful weapon in the game.

You should keep on a look out for the Vigoorian Flails in this game (its just a shame that they are the last weapons you pick-up, and on top of that you find them in the WORST level of the game....and just as a warning, Chapter 9 is complete garbage, by far the worst level I've played in any Ninja Gaiden game). Knowing that you are a big DMC fan, the VF in this game (which are completely upgraded from NGB), have TONS of aerial combos and they are the best weapons to juggle enemies with. Admittedly they are also the least practical weapon in the game, but they are fun to do for combo and skill runs on New Game + where you can use them from the beginning of the game.

The Tonfa are probably my favorite melee weapon in the game mostly due to its many useful nuances. If you are a fan of the finer points of combat systems in these types of games, GSF, take note that the Tonfa allow you to combo-cancel, which you should know is an extremely useful feature in hack n' slash games from playing DMC, I would suspect.

Oh, just as a warning, Gigadeath from Chapter 3 is a cheap motherfucker. Its a shitty boss fight that thankfully you only have to deal with once, but just be weary that you should keep well-stocked on healing items for that boss fight just so that you don't have to pull your hair out from pure rage at how badly designed he is.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 25, 2012, 11:42:42 AM
My only problem with the game on Warrior is that it actually gets a bit too easy later down the line

For you, maybe. :P

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 25, 2012, 11:42:42 AM
My only problem with the game on Warrior is that it actually gets a bit too easy later down the line when you fully upgrade most of your weapons since they don't really ramp up the enemy difficulty that much. That said Mentor is by far the best difficulty in tihs game, and it feels like Ninja Gaiden proper pretty much the whole way through.

The weapons in this game are great, and they each have their own strengths and weaknesses that make them fun to experiment with in different situations. The Falcon's Talons are great but they also have a really cheap and exploitable FS transition into ID move which newbies can spam (I refrained from doing this, though, because it just wasn't actually much fun to abuse cheap tactics in a Ninja Gaiden game). The FT at level 3 have some of the coolest combos in the game, and they are the 3rd fastest weapon in the game so its easy to chain combos with them.

The Lunar Staff is downright overpowered if you realize that its alternate UT absolutely rapes anything that gets in its way. Its not my favorite weapon in the game for combos, but it is by far the most practical and powerful weapon in the game.

You should keep on a look out for the Vigoorian Flails in this game (its just a shame that they are the last weapons you pick-up, and on top of that you find them in the WORST level of the game....and just as a warning, Chapter 9 is complete garbage, by far the worst level I've played in any Ninja Gaiden game). Knowing that you are a big DMC fan, the VF in this game (which are completely upgraded from NGB), have TONS of aerial combos and they are the best weapons to juggle enemies with. Admittedly they are also the least practical weapon in the game, but they are fun to do for combo and skill runs on New Game + where you can use them from the beginning of the game.

The Tonfa are probably my favorite melee weapon in the game mostly due to its many useful nuances. If you are a fan of the finer points of combat systems in these types of games, GSF, take note that the Tonfa allow you to combo-cancel, which you should know is an extremely useful feature in hack n' slash games from playing DMC, I would suspect.

Oh, just as a warning, Gigadeath from Chapter 3 is a cheap motherfucker. Its a shitty boss fight that thankfully you only have to deal with once, but just be weary that you should keep well-stocked on healing items for that boss fight just so that you don't have to pull your hair out from pure rage at how badly designed he is.

II has New Game +? Ah sweet fuck yeah!

Thanks for the info oh and I'm not much of a technical gamer. :sweat:

Ah yes, my bad. I can't expect every average gamer out there to be on my godly level of skill in gaming, after all. :>

You're probably are compared to me. :lol: I'm just more persistent than most.

That stage 3 boss really is a son of a bitch. I had use all my ninpo and healing items, including that life of the thousand whatever maximum health upgrade that I believe I got from the trial in that stage. Even then I was more than likely one hit away from dying but luckily I beat him on the first try. Also stage 4's mid boss is a bitch and I think I had use every single item I had again including another one to boost my maximum health so I could heal all the way. That scream attack has no apparent warning and takes like half my health bar. WTF?! I was circling him like no one's business and still got blasted. I'm inside the Statue Of Liberty right now. I believe right before the trail since I went to sleep knowing beating this one will take forever.

Quote from: gunswordfist on March 27, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
That stage 3 boss really is a son of a bitch. I had use all my ninpo and healing items, including that life of the thousand whatever maximum health upgrade that I believe I got from the trial in that stage. Even then I was more than likely one hit away from dying but luckily I beat him on the first try.

Well, I warned you. :>

QuoteAlso stage 4's mid boss is a bitch and I think I had use every single item I had again including another one to boost my maximum health so I could heal all the way. That scream attack has no apparent warning and takes like half my health bar. WTF?!

This boss is actually pretty easy if you know what you're doing. For starters, you shouldn't be attacking him from the front. If the fact that it has no eyes isn't a big enough hint, I'll make it easier for you: its blind! ;)

That means you should instinctively sneak around him and attack him from behind (I just realized that there's no way to say a line like this without it sounding like some sort of sexual innuendo :D).

QuoteI was circling him like no one's business and still got blasted. I'm inside the Statue Of Liberty right now. I believe right before the trail since I went to sleep knowing beating this one will take forever.

OH, HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! Just going by how much trouble you had with the mid-boss of the stage, you are NOT going to like Alexei. He's not really cheap or anything, but lets just say that out of all of the bosses in the game he requires the quickest reflexes for you to dodge his attacks, and he attacks you A LOT! :sly:

I meant to say Trial not trail. I swear I edited that before I posted it.

Anyway, that's for the warning, ass-fucker.

"That's actually death you smell." Oh Ryu :sly: I just beat Alexei. He was pretty easy...well thanks to all the items I had. I had one small healing thing two grains, a devil whatchamacallit and conveniently enough yet another life of the thousands whogivesadamns.

Almost every boss in this game can be considered easy on Acolyte or Warrior mode, honestly, even the cheap ones. The game was really meant to be played on Mentor difficulty for anyone who knows what they're doing, though. :>

Anyways, Volf is the next greater fiend you take down, but he's the easiest of all. Oh yeah, I'm guessing that you're still on Chapter 5, but when you get to Chapter 6 you'll fight a certain mid-boss called the drunken skeleton. As a fun fact, keep in mind that Tomonobu Itagaki himself did the motion capture for that boss. Its hilarious when you realize that its him doing it and just why the boss is called the DRUNKEN skeleton, lol. :D

Oh yeah, BTW, if I haven't already told you, at the end of the Chapter 7 boss fight, hold block immediately after you kill the boss. Trust me, you'll thank me later. :sly:

Finally decided to get Ninja Gaiden Sigma today, after having played the demo for so long. Fortunately, it didn't really feel like a chore having to go through the first level yet again, mainly because I didn't even have any special techniques to use (the demo gives you everything at the start), and other than having to heal once or twice, I didn't have much trouble.

The third and fourth chapters ramped up the difficulty for me. Chapter 3 because of some cheap deaths (getting thrown of a ledge because some mook got lucky, even though you were at full health really isn't a fun way to die) and a rather annoying boss, and chapter 4 because I was too stupid to notice the Muramasa shop in the clock tower where I can stock up on potions until a few deaths later. Just finished Chapter 4, and I should be heading toward the first Rachel mission.

Loving the game so far, but I don't know if this is just a trait of Sigma, but this game is way to generous in giving out the "Master Ninja" ranking, even if I take over an hour to complete a mission and die a half-dozen times.

Sweet! Someone else besides me, GSF, and Foggle has finally picked up a 3D NG game! ;D

Quote from: Rynnec on March 29, 2012, 01:26:31 AM
Finally decided to get Ninja Gaiden Sigma today, after having played the demo for so long. Fortunately, it didn't really feel like a chore having to go through the first level yet again, mainly because I didn't even have any special techniques to use (the demo gives you everything at the start), and other than having to heal once or twice, I didn't have much trouble.

I believe the difficulty for NGS on Normal was slightly toned down from NGB. Keep in mind, there weren't any drastic changes, but the bosses were made a little bit easier than before (Murai seems to block much less in Sigma, and Maskado from Chapter 2 seemed to take more damage from being hit). That said the first 2 chapters are generally more for tutorial so they did a good job making those feel more balanced for newcomers, IMO.

QuoteThe third and fourth chapters ramped up the difficulty for me. Chapter 3 because of some cheap deaths (getting thrown of a ledge because some mook got lucky, even though you were at full health really isn't a fun way to die)

If you're talking about that one moment where you are coming around a corner and that one soldier attacks you and manages to throw you off of the air-ship, that is pretty BS but cheap deaths like that are rare in the game, and you may be glad to know that Chapter 3 is pretty much the only level where you can die from falling off of platforms. The rest of the game doesn't have any bottomless pits that you have to worry about. Its all just being killed by things the good old fashioned way....by getting smacked around a lot! :thumbup:

Quoteand a rather annoying boss

Well, I haven't specifically played that boss in Sigma, but Dynamo in NGB is really more of an easy boss fight nuisance once you get his attack pattern down.

Quoteand chapter 4 because I was too stupid to notice the Muramasa shop in the clock tower where I can stock up on potions until a few deaths later. Just finished Chapter 4, and I should be heading toward the first Rachel mission.

Heh, I remember my first experience with Tairon. I actually kind of stumbled into Muramasa's shop by accident. I was in the middle of a fight with some soldiers and then just happened to tap X to attack, but that also happened to be the button to open the door which I just happened to be standing next to. :D

QuoteLoving the game so far, but I don't know if this is just a trait of Sigma, but this game is way to generous in giving out the "Master Ninja" ranking, even if I take over an hour to complete a mission and die a half-dozen times.

Sigma made Karma scoring MUCH easier on Normal and Hard mode. Very Hard and Master Ninja are still much stricter, though. In NGB you were really punished for taking too long on levels, and you also got big score detractors for using healing items and Ninpo.

I'm glad that you're enjoying the game, though. If you can, you should try and experiment around with different weapons since part of the fun of the game for me was learning the intricacies of Ryu's arsenal, and what weapons worked best in which areas. The combat from the first game isn't as robust as DMC3 or Bayonetta, but its still got a lot of hidden depth that pays off during the harder sections that come up.

One gripe that I have with Sigma is that it removed most of the puzzles from NGB, which I found to sort of ruin the pacing of the game. I mean, the puzzles were laughably easy for sure, but the point of them being there was that they served as good pace-breakers after intense battles to allow you to relax for a little while before getting into the next heated confrontation. Instead it just replaced those with more enemy encounters, which doesn't really detract from the game too much since they can usually be skipped, but I do find that it makes the pacing feel a bit more uneven, personally. Also the Rachael missions should have been optional, IMO. As you'll soon find out, she's just not much fun to play as.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 28, 2012, 10:34:04 PM
Almost every boss in this game can be considered easy on Acolyte or Warrior mode, honestly, even the cheap ones. The game was really meant to be played on Mentor difficulty for anyone who knows what they're doing, though. :>

Anyways, Volf is the next greater fiend you take down, but he's the easiest of all. Oh yeah, I'm guessing that you're still on Chapter 5, but when you get to Chapter 6 you'll fight a certain mid-boss called the drunken skeleton. As a fun fact, keep in mind that Tomonobu Itagaki himself did the motion capture for that boss. Its hilarious when you realize that its him doing it and just why the boss is called the DRUNKEN skeleton, lol. :D

Oh yeah, BTW, if I haven't already told you, at the end of the Chapter 7 boss fight, hold block immediately after you kill the boss. Trust me, you'll thank me later. :sly:

Ah yes, the exploding boss I already heard you talk about years ago.

Oh yeah, one thing that I Sigma took out that I kind of miss from Black is that campy opening narration before the start of the game. It sets up a suitably cheesy tone for the game but also gives it a somewhat epic feeling back-story at the same time.

I'm talking about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ona5vdHIWk) opening, to be precise.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 29, 2012, 01:48:03 AM
If you're talking about that one moment where you are coming around a corner and that one soldier attacks you and manages to throw you off of the air-ship, that is pretty BS but cheap deaths like that are rare in the game, and you may be glad to know that Chapter 3 is pretty much the only level where you can die from falling off of platforms. The rest of the game doesn't have any bottomless pits that you have to worry about. Its all just being killed by things the good old fashioned way....by getting smacked around a lot! :thumbup:

That's defintely a relief. ;D

Quote
Well, I haven't specifically played that boss in Sigma, but Dynamo in NGB is really more of an easy boss fight nuisance once you get his attack pattern down.

Most of the difficulty came from dodging the thunder blasts from his gun, couldn't really find a good enough method to dodge them. This was the part where I thought that making the wind run home in on the nearest enemy made things a bit more harder than necessary, granted, it does make it easier to use the Flying Swallow so you can interrupt his charge-up.

QuoteSigma made Karma scoring MUCH easier on Normal and Hard mode. Very Hard and Master Ninja are still much stricter, though. In NGB you were really punished for taking too long on levels, and you also got big score detractors for using healing items and Ninpo.

I'm glad that you're enjoying the game, though. If you can, you should try and experiment around with different weapons since part of the fun of the game for me was learning the intricacies of Ryu's arsenal, and what weapons worked best in which areas. The combat from the first game isn't as robust as DMC3 or Bayonetta, but its still got a lot of hidden depth that pays off during the harder sections that come up.

Yup, been experimenting with weapons usually right after I get them, and I've already upgraded the Dragon Sword, Lunar, and the Dragon's Claw & Tiger Fang to the next level. The combat is really fun and intense without ever being to unfair. It's like you're playing a fighting game almost.

QuoteOne gripe that I have with Sigma is that it removed most of the puzzles from NGB, which I found to sort of ruin the pacing of the game. I mean, the puzzles were laughably easy for sure, but the point of them being there was that they served as good pace-breakers after intense battles to allow you to relax for a little while before getting into the next heated confrontation. Instead it just replaced those with more enemy encounters, which doesn't really detract from the game too much since they can usually be skipped, but I do find that it makes the pacing feel a bit more uneven, personally. Also the Rachael missions should have been optional, IMO. As you'll soon find out, she's just not much fun to play as.

Once, this is done, I'll really have to watch a youtube playthrough of Black to see how really different things are. I'd track down a physical copy of Black myself, but like I said earlier in the thread, none of my Xbox controllers are in particularly good shape.

The changes between Black and Sigma are mostly negligible, though I'd say Black is probably better overall. Not by a lot or anything, and I'd give both versions of NG 1 the exact same rating, but I think Black is objectively superior since it's closer to Itagaki's original vision.

Quote from: Rynnec on March 29, 2012, 02:26:20 AM
Most of the difficulty came from dodging the thunder blasts from his gun, couldn't really find a good enough method to dodge them.

If you haven't started doing it yet, you should learn to chain together your rolls and jumps. Doing that is the number one best way to avoid 99% of all projectile-based attacks in this game, especially from bosses. Before I learned to do it I was having a much harder time dodging and maneuvering boss attacks but after I practiced with that method a little bit it became a cinch to dodge most attacks. Of course actually getting in up close to fight bosses head to head is another story, but at least that will take care of dodging any future projectiles. ;)

QuoteYup, been experimenting with weapons usually right after I get them, and I've already upgraded the Dragon Sword, Lunar, and the Dragon's Claw & Tiger Fang to the next level. The combat is really fun and intense without ever being to unfair. It's like you're playing a fighting game almost.

Yeah, NG is typically the hack n' slash game among the lot that gets compared most to fighting games. To be fair, it basically more or less works like a fighting game in a hack n' slash setting with its combat system (sort of like if a Soul Calibur style adventure game was done right, IMO ;) ). With DMC and Bayonetta, they have a more unique combo-heavy feel to them, and with God of War, its just more about being flashy and brutal than learning the intricacies of its combat system. With Ninja Gaiden, I also feel that its enemy design also helps contribute to the fighting game feel since they tend to be more aggressive than in most other action games (though I'm aware you're playing on Normal right now, even in this mode some of the later enemies will start giving you a run for your money, so keep on your toes in preparation for that ;) ).

QuoteOnce, this is done, I'll really have to watch a youtube playthrough of Black to see how really different things are. I'd track down a physical copy of Black myself, but like I said earlier in the thread, none of my Xbox controllers are in particularly good shape.

Well, it'd take a long time to sit through each game to spot the majorly noticeable differences, but after you finish the game I can highlight some specific changes that I noticed for you and point you out to them just for your knowledge. ;)

Quote from: Foggle on March 29, 2012, 02:31:57 AM
The changes between Black and Sigma are mostly negligible, though I'd say Black is probably better overall. Not by a lot or anything, and I'd give both versions of NG 1 the exact same rating, but I think Black is objectively superior since it's closer to Itagaki's original vision.

Well, for me its not so much about Itagaki's original vision as it is that I found that some of Sigma's changes were more questionable rather than better. That said its really just subjective, so there is no objectively better version, though of course you know that I prefer Black. Oddly enough, though, it has more to do with what Sigma added than what it changed. It made it so that you have to shake the six-axis controller to get Ninpo to work at full power which I found to be rather annoying (but a minor nuisance at that), and it forced you through the Rachael missions which I found to be pretty boring, personally.

That said, I'm not trying to be a snob here. Its still 95% the same game and its still an amazing game. I just think that Hayashi didn't really do anything to make the core game better. He just added a couple of things that are just....there, rather than anything else. They don't hurt the game (or at least not much), but they don't really help it either. For that its basically the same game with some changes that a hardcore fan like me likes to nitpick, but for everyone else its basically the same great game as NGB. ;)

Now, Sigma 2 on the other hand is a COMPLETELY different story. That one is a complete overhaul from the original XBOX360 version, and I'm talking about FAR more than just the lack of blood and gore. To be fair, I can see how someone would find it subjectively superior to the original version of the game, but absolutely nobody can deny that its pretty much a different game on the whole than the original.

Welp, just hearing about the motion sensoring, Black>>>>>>>>>>>Sigma.

To be fair, I own Sigma and have beaten it multiple times, and this is the first I've ever heard of the motion control shit...

You own Sigma and you aren't aware that shaking the six-axis powers up your Ninpo?

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 29, 2012, 10:01:05 PM
You own Sigma and you aren't aware that shaking the six-axis powers up your Ninpo?

Yep. :happytime: I always wondered why Ninpo was so much weaker than in Black, lol...

Well, either way, its not a big deal because the 1st game didn't have much strategic use for Ninpo aside from using it to become temporarily invincible against hard to avoid boss attacks. That said, I do think the fact that you needed to shake the controller to power it up was more of a nuisance than a harmless new feature.

At any rate, at least THAT is a far better use of the six-axis than the boob-jiggle feature from Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2. :>

Rachel really is unwieldly to use. She isn't anywhere near as polished as Ryu. Her boss battle with Gamov was also kinda cheap to (those guns do way too much damage). At least her levels are short.

God damn spirit fish! Ghost fish are extremely easy to beat on land but above and below water is a real problem. After I while, I just went to sleep early this morning after it took too long to find the way out with all those damn fish following me.

The fish are actually extremely easy to kill underwater. Just get out your bow gun (yes, it actually DOES serve a purpose in this game), and keep tapping B repeatedly. You don't even have to aim it. It'll automatically kill a bunch of them instantly once they get near you.

Of course, if you're like me, I would suggest not even confronting the fish. Just run straight to the boss fight and after defeating it you'll complete the chapter, then you'll start up the next chapter in the same area where you defeated the boss and will be free to explore the ruins and look underwater for hidden treasure without any ghost fish to get in your way since they disappear after you kill the boss. ;)

Quote from: Rynnec on March 30, 2012, 12:56:01 AM
Rachel really is unwieldly to use. She isn't anywhere near as polished as Ryu. Her boss battle with Gamov was also kinda cheap to (those guns do way too much damage). At least her levels are short.

Also, keep in mind that this is one of the only noticeable additions that Yosuke Hayashi made to the game that was clearly not in Black (that is to say that he and the part of the team working under him made this from scratch, without just building off of Itagaki's material). Compare that to the rest of the game and it just feels out of place and boring, and Rachel's animations aren't even as well-designed as Ryu's (seriously, she walks like she's got a pole up her ass). Now, the guy who was behind this addition to the game was also the guy in-charge of creating Ninja Gaiden 3 from scratch. All of a sudden it becomes clear why that game turned out to be as big of a disaster as it did. ;)

If nothing else, I believe Ninja Gaiden 3 can at least match Resident Evil for having some of the most hilarious bad dialogue in gaming, and it achieved it with only 1 game alone! Take a look at some of this brilliant writing that Team Ninja was up to when coming up with the story which they were clearly focusing on more than the actual gameplay:

"I keep forgetting you're a Ninja" (seriously, this line in any context in a game with freaking NINJA in the title automatically qualifies as bad dialogue)

A scene from the 2nd level of the game:

Mizuki: "It's alright Kana, you don't have to be afraid of him. He may look kinda scary, but he's a good man."
Ryu: "I'm not....scary...."

(OK, Were this actually intentional it would be legitimately funny given Ryu's priceless reaction in this scene, but Hayashi clearly took this game very seriously, so it makes this scene even more ridiculous and hilarious :D ).

Another scene:

Regent: "Ah! Fast as ever! You ninja are nothing if not punctual."
Ryu: "You again. Now I know LoA is up to something. Tell me about the dinosaurs!"
Regent: Ah! Clones, from fossil cells."
Ryu: "Why?"
Regent: "Hahahaha! Why? Business, of course! How many children would want a dinosaur as a pet? We could sell millions of the things!"

Actually, to be fair I do believe that last line was supposed to be intentionally sarcastic, but if you watch the scene its still funny in a way that they clearly didn't intend. Whoever voice acts as the Regent knows how absurd and badly written the dialogue is and plays him WAY over the top, which is actually sadly one of the most entertaining things about the game. :P

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 02, 2012, 01:16:32 AM
Regent: "Hahahaha! Why? Business, of course! How many children would want a dinosaur as a pet? We could sell millions of the things!"

lmfao, are you kidding me? How was someone even capable of writing this without instantly bursting into flames?

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 02, 2012, 01:16:32 AM
If nothing else, I believe Ninja Gaiden 3 can at least match Resident Evil for having some of the most hilarious bad dialogue in gaming, and it achieved it with only 1 game alone! Take a look at some of this brilliant writing that Team Ninja was up to when coming up with the story which they were clearly focusing on more than the actual gameplay:

"I keep forgetting you're a Ninja" (seriously, this line in any context in a game with freaking NINJA in the title automatically qualifies as bad dialogue)

A scene from the 2nd level of the game:

Mizuki: "It's alright Kana, you don't have to be afraid of him. He may look kinda scary, but he's a good man."
Ryu: "I'm not....scary...."

(OK, Were this actually intentional it would be legitimately funny given Ryu's priceless reaction in this scene, but Hayashi clearly took this game very seriously, so it makes this scene even more ridiculous and hilarious :D ).

Another scene:

Regent: "Ah! Fast as ever! You ninja are nothing if not punctual."
Ryu: "You again. Now I know LoA is up to something. Tell me about the dinosaurs!"
Regent: Ah! Clones, from fossil cells."
Ryu: "Why?"
Regent: "Hahahaha! Why? Business, of course! How many children would want a dinosaur as a pet? We could sell millions of the things!"

Actually, to be fair I do believe that last line was supposed to be intentionally sarcastic, but if you watch the scene its still funny in a way that they clearly didn't intend. Whoever voice acts as the Regent knows how absurd and badly written the dialogue is and plays him WAY over the top, which is actually sadly one of the most entertaining things about the game. :P

AHHHHHHH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

EXCELLENT Fan video review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAbvZAUS03E) of Ninja Gaiden 3. This is a well-made fan review of Ninja Gaiden 3 by a sensible fan of the series intended for other sensible fans of the series. It basically directly compares Ninja Gaiden 3 to its predecessors and points out just why its such a big step down for the series, as well as why its just not a good game even in its own right. I really wish there was some way to get every single member of Team Ninja involved with this game to watch this review. THEY really need to see shit like this to realize just how badly they fucked up with this game.

Lol, I love this guy's description of Ninja Gaiden 2's plot. The video is completely spot on, especially his opinion of Steel On Bone. As someone who enjoys films like I Saw The Devil and loves the level of blood/gore in MadWorld, I find the concept of SOB to be sick and disgusting. Hayashi is clearly a sociopath. :P
Ryu: I've just... never thought about being a father. I'm touched. :whuh:

Quote from: Foggle on April 02, 2012, 10:01:07 PM
Lol, I love this guy's description of Ninja Gaiden 2's plot.

"In Ninja Gaiden II, Ryu gets something stolen from his house and he wants that shit back. So, he kills all the dudes who stole his shit and saves the world in the process." LOL :D

QuoteThe video is completely spot on, especially his opinion of Steel On Bone. As someone who enjoys films like I Saw The Devil and loves the level of blood/gore in MadWorld, I find the concept of SOB to be sick and disgusting. Hayashi is clearly a sociopath. :P

Yeah, I love how he calls NG2 senseless violence yet replaces its cartoony and over-the-top dismemberment with a downright sadistic bone cutting mechanic that isn't even actually any fun to pull off. Its just gross.

QuoteRyu: I've just... never thought of being a father. I'm touched. :whuh:

A part of me died when I heard him utter that line. :'(

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 30, 2012, 12:53:01 PM
The fish are actually extremely easy to kill underwater. Just get out your bow gun (yes, it actually DOES serve a purpose in this game), and keep tapping B repeatedly. You don't even have to aim it. It'll automatically kill a bunch of them instantly once they get near you.

Of course, if you're like me, I would suggest not even confronting the fish. Just run straight to the boss fight and after defeating it you'll complete the chapter, then you'll start up the next chapter in the same area where you defeated the boss and will be free to explore the ruins and look underwater for hidden treasure without any ghost fish to get in your way since they disappear after you kill the boss. ;)

I avoided this on purpose due to me hating anything being spoiled/love of discovery for myself but either way, it still didn't tell me where the hell the way out was. I searched for problem over two hours until I found that damn key on that seemingly random pillar.

Anyway, I love the hell out of the music in Volf's level. That was one hell of a level. I was really impressed. That would have been like half of a game for one of today's shitty games. (Even though I think I may have forgotten where one level began and another level ended because they ran together)

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 02, 2012, 10:07:28 PM

Quote from: Foggle on April 02, 2012, 10:01:07 PM
Lol, I love this guy's description of Ninja Gaiden 2's plot.

"In Ninja Gaiden II, Ryu gets something stolen from his house and he wants that shit back. So, he kills all the dudes who stole his shit and saves the world in the process." LOL :D

Quote:D

At the end game of Sigma right now (chapter 18). Outside a few really frustrating moments (the Fireworms, and the Spirit Fish, which I'll go into more detail later) the games been a blast.  Alma (both forms) was suprisingly easy once you get the hang of dodging her attacks, Same deal with Doku (at least his first form). The other bosses I don't really remember any being particularly hard or easy. And out of all enemies, only the Red Dino Fiends have been giving me any noteworthy trouble. Of course, this brings me to my most hated enemy...

Those damned spirit fish. Seriously, they're such a goddamn cheap-ass bunch. You can't block them (at least from what I can tell), they only have one attack, they always come in swarms, and worst of all, they're challenging in an annoying way. I'd honestly rather fight an army of Red Dinos then deal with those damn fish again, at least they require actual skill and strategy to beat, with the fish the only way to deal with them is to equip the flails and mindlessly mash the attack button until all 5 dozen of them are dead.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 02, 2012, 09:34:16 PM
EXCELLENT Fan video review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAbvZAUS03E) of Ninja Gaiden 3. This is a well-made fan review of Ninja Gaiden 3 by a sensible fan of the series intended for other sensible fans of the series. It basically directly compares Ninja Gaiden 3 to its predecessors and points out just why its such a big step down for the series, as well as why its just not a good game even in its own right. I really wish there was some way to get every single member of Team Ninja involved with this game to watch this review. THEY really need to see shit like this to realize just how badly they fucked up with this game.

Have you watched his playthrough of the game? It's a great way of experiencing the game without having to waste time actually playing it.

Quote from: Rynnec on April 04, 2012, 07:45:23 PM
Have you watched his playthrough of the game? It's a great way of experiencing the game without having to waste time actually playing it.

Watching it now. NG 3 really reminds me of those awful Painkiller sequels where you'd end up sitting in one area for 10+ minutes fighting the exact same enemies over and over as they constantly respawned. Boring as hell.

This first battle with the red-robed guy actually looks really fun. Very reminiscent of the boss fights in the Yakuza series.

Literally the only thing that's appealed to me so far.

Quote from: Rynnec on April 04, 2012, 07:45:23 PM
At the end game of Sigma right now (chapter 18). Outside a few really frustrating moments (the Fireworms, and the Spirit Fish, which I'll go into more detail later) the games been a blast.  Alma (both forms) was suprisingly easy once you get the hang of dodging her attacks, Same deal with Doku (at least his first form). The other bosses I don't really remember any being particularly hard or easy. And out of all enemies, only the Red Dino Fiends have been giving me any noteworthy trouble. Of course, this brings me to my most hated enemy...

Glad to see you're enjoying it. Sigma did tone down some of the difficulty from NGB on the XBOX, but overall its still mostly the same mechanics. That said, I think you can see by now that many people have overrated the difficulty of the 3D NG games (mostly casual gamers who couldn't get past the 1st level of course ;) ). This is unfortunate, because so many people were steered away from the game thinking it was impossible, when really it just had a bit of a steeper learning curve than most other action games. This is the same thing that kept DMC games from being as popular as it really deserved (its certainly popular among hardcore gamers, but its another series that casual gamers have strayed away from just because they here its really hard, when its more of a game with a longer learning curve and one that punishes button mashing).

QuoteThose damned spirit fish. Seriously, they're such a goddamn cheap-ass bunch. You can't block them (at least from what I can tell), they only have one attack, they always come in swarms, and worst of all, they're challenging in an annoying way. I'd honestly rather fight an army of Red Dinos then deal with those damn fish again, at least they require actual skill and strategy to beat, with the fish the only way to deal with them is to equip the flails and mindlessly mash the attack button until all 5 dozen of them are dead.

Hahaha, I was waiting for your reaction to this enemy. Those things were a nightmare for me on my first time playing through the game as well. I also noticed that mashing the flails is the most common strategy that newcomers use to deal with them (myself included, the first time I played through the game). It'll really infuriate you when you realize it, though, but there is a REALLY simple way to defeat them without taking any damage and making a ton of essence off them in the process. Since you're already past them there's no point in explaining the method, but if you chained UTs with the Dabilahro, they would become a piece of cake. Its the fact that they have only one attack that makes them so exploitable in the end. That said, they ARE a pretty stupid enemy. I'm not sure what Itagaki was smoking when he decided to put ghost fish as an enemy in the game. I mean, think about it, they are flying ghost forms of fish....WTF kind of enemy is that? :D

QuoteHave you watched his playthrough of the game? It's a great way of experiencing the game without having to waste time actually playing it.

I watched his first video, but then couldn't bare to watch anymore because the monotony of the game just drove me insane. With Ninja Gaiden Black/Sigma and NG2, I could watch pros play those games for hours and see what kind of sick combos they come up with or how they effectively and efficiently deal with a tough group of enemies in a record time with skill, proficiency, and good strategy. Ninja Gaiden 3 is the first NG game that's just flat-out boring me for me to even watch being played, and is probably even more boring to play.

Check out what's coming to the 3DS (hopefully as 3D classics):

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F2sY6N.jpg&hash=378f036207ae8a48dd21c954a9c92490601cb89f)

Though I think the arcade game is mislabeled and is actually the first NES game.  They wouldn't skip 1 for 2 and 3 when 1 is the most popular.

Heck, I'd actually rebuy them all for portability. Specifically 2.

Very nice. I'd happily buy them all!

Back to NG 3; is Ryu fucking quick-scoping with his bow? This game just gets worse and worse...

Quote from: Foggle on April 04, 2012, 08:51:25 PM
This first battle with the red-robed guy actually looks really fun. Very reminiscent of the boss fights in the Yakuza series.

Literally the only thing that's appealed to me so far.

That battle is pretty much one of the only highlights of this game, but the sad thing is that EVEN THAT has been done better in previous NG games. I mean, compare that battle to THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8QAxh5CtiU) one from NGB, and tell me which one seems more intense and requires more skill.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 04, 2012, 08:58:13 PM
Check out what's coming to the 3DS (hopefully as 3D classics):

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F2sY6N.jpg&hash=378f036207ae8a48dd21c954a9c92490601cb89f)

Though I think the arcade game is mislabeled and is actually the first NES game.  They wouldn't skip 1 for 2 and 3 when 1 is the most popular.

Heck, I'd actually rebuy them all for portability. Specifically 2.

The description for the Arcade NG game does indeed sound more like the arcade NG game than the NES one. It'd be strange to exclude the first game from the package and replace it with the arcade game, though. That said, I'd happily buy a collection like that if I owned a 3DS.

I must admit, for a second I got excited by your post because for some reason I thought it was showing some announcement of a new 2D side-scroller NG game for the 3DS, but then reality hit me when I realized that the hacks at Tecmo and Team Ninja would never actually think to do something awesome like that for fans of the series who have bee dying for a new 2D game for ages. :(

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 04, 2012, 09:05:26 PM

Quote from: Foggle on April 04, 2012, 08:51:25 PM
This first battle with the red-robed guy actually looks really fun. Very reminiscent of the boss fights in the Yakuza series.

Literally the only thing that's appealed to me so far.

That battle is pretty much one of the only highlights of this game, but the sad thing is that EVEN THAT has been done better in previous NG games. I mean, compare that battle to THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8QAxh5CtiU) one from NGB, and tell me which one seems more intense and requires more skill.

Awesome. Bonus points for the Doppelgangers not having any cheap-ass grab moves.

ARK just hit Steel On Bone five times in a row. My god Hayashi... what have you done to this series...

Everyone... watch this video from 1:15-3:10 and tell me this isn't the worst hack 'n slash game of the past three years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mSMM_dTRyY&feature=related

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 04, 2012, 09:09:27 PMI must admit, for a second I got excited by your post because for some reason I thought it was showing some announcement of a new 2D side-scroller NG game for the 3DS, but then reality hit me when I realized that the hacks at Tecmo and Team Ninja would never actually think to do something awesome like that for fans of the series who have bee dying for a new 2D game for ages. :(

Sakamoto and Ninja Team can "make up" for Other M (though it wasn't that bad gameplay-wise) and NG3 HD by getting together to make a Metroid V and Ninja Gaiden 4 (they even have the writer now!) for the 3DS.

Then we can forget this whole thing ever happened.  :D

(When I first saw the listing that's what I was hoping for, too)

Sakamoto can make up for Metroid: Other M. I seriously doubt that Team Ninja can make up for anything, though, unless they have a good leader to direct them, and Yosuke Hayashi is NOT a good leader. That said, they still have DOA5 coming out in a few months, and while I'm not a fan of the series, I'll be really interested to see how it turns out. The way I see it, its basically their last chance to prove that they can competently make a decent game without Itagaki being there to tell them what they need to do to properly make a game. The way I see it, the release of DOA5 could potentially make or break the new Team Ninja.

At any rate, I do NOT want to see them tackle another 3D NG game after NG3, and I'm not even sure I'd like a 2D NG game by them with their current gameplay design sensibilities, but I still must admit that my desire to play some classic style NG also makes me want to give them a chance to try out something like that on the off chance that it'll work and I can play a brand new great 2D NG game. At any rate, I'd rather see them try to tackle something new (to them) like that rather than make another 3D NG game and butcher the series even further with it.

Just beat Ninja Gaiden Sigma. The Final Boss was somewhat anticlimactic, but still fun. I have to say that I had to chuckle at the reveal of Murai being the main Villain. I had already known that before hand, but the way it was done and with no buildup whatsoever made it come across as a parody. :D And did Ryu turn into a rainbow at the end when he left Rachel?

Gonna try and beat Hard Mode now, mainly to unlock the Dark Dragon Blade (which I'm dissapointed you never properly used) and the Dark Dragon Costume.

Well, Ninja Gaiden games were never exactly known for remarkable story-telling, so the fact that you could see the so-called plot twist of the ending coming miles away was really no surprise....literally.

The final boss battle gave me a bit of trouble in Ninja Gaiden Black, but I haven't tired it in Sigma. Still, compared to previous boss battles, it definitely wasn't very difficult.

Anyways, Normal is a decent enough challenge without really being too hard on the player. Enjoy playing the game through hard mode. Its not that much harder, honestly, but you may appreciate that the game throws some brand new enemies at you that you haven't encountered before, and now you'll finally get to fight the Evil Fiend Ryu bosses which are among my favorite fights in the game, since they have all of the abilities that you have an have the proficiency of efficient machines since they are computer controlled AI. ;)

Also, be a bit more weary of opening treasure chests this time. Some of them have different items in them (sometimes worse or occasionally better than the items that you found in those same respective chests on the Normal difficulty setting), and you may find some different weapons in different areas than before, but sometimes you may find a not so pleasant surprise in chests. For example, remember those fish that you hate so much? Yeah, don't say I didn't warn you when they suddenly spring out of a chest and start chomping on your flesh without warning. Those things'll drain your life WAY faster on Hard mode. :P

Also, some of the bosses you found pretty easy the first time around may not seem so simple on Hard mode, but its still pretty manageable. Now, if you ever feel like playing the game a 3rd time through and want the REAL Ninja Gaiden challenge that the series is associated with, you'll want to play through Very Hard mode. The jump from Hard to Very Hard is pretty substantial, and enemies will really start to kick your ass at every little slip-up that you make. Also upgrading weapons and buying items costs A LOT more on harder difficulties, so spend your essence wisely. :thumbup:

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 05, 2012, 12:46:13 AM
For example, remember those fish that you hate so much? Yeah, don't say I didn't warn you when they suddenly spring out of a chest and start chomping on your flesh without warning.

FUCK THAT SHIT ARGGHGHGH :unimpressed:

Evil Fiend Ryu is awesome. One of the best bosses in any game, easily.

Quote from: Rynnec on April 05, 2012, 12:27:35 AM
Gonna try and beat Hard Mode now, mainly to unlock the Dark Dragon Blade (which I'm dissapointed you never properly used) and the Dark Dragon Costume.

Well, I'm not really sure how if it works the same way in Sigma, but in NGB you unlocked the DDB on Normal by collecting all 50 Golden Scarabs and giving them to Murai. Usually you could collect all 13 scarabs by Chapter 13 of the game, if I'm not mistaken. Also, if you play through Mission Mode, some missions allow you to use the DDB among the preset weapon selections.

Just as a fun fact, in NG1 the reward Murai gave you for collecting all 50 Golden Scarabs was an SNES cartridge of the original Ninja Gaiden trilogy. If you took it over to the Arcade Machine in Han's Bar, you could insert it in there and unlock an emulated version of the SNES version of the original NG games and play through any of them. It was a pretty neat addition that was sadly removed from NGB/S because Nintendo got pissed at Tecmo for making a port like that since it conflicted with some legal terms with Nintendo, or some shit like that, based on what I've heard.

In Sigma, getting all the Golden Scarabs and taking them to Muramasa gives you the Plasma Saber, which is basically just a reskinned True Dragon Sword, but it's still pretty cool.

Quoteremember those fish that you hate so much? Yeah, don't say I didn't warn you when they suddenly spring out of a chest and start chomping on your flesh without warning. Those things'll drain your life WAY faster on Hard mode.

   :frown:

Early yesterday morning I beat stage 7. During the easiest time I had with the bosses....I got blown up because I forgot to block because the level was so long so I didn't remember. When the screen turned yellow I went "Oh, that's right." Luckily it starts back at that boss. Nice design touch.

Quote from: Rynnec on April 04, 2012, 07:45:23 PM
At the end game of Sigma right now (chapter 18). Outside a few really frustrating moments (the Fireworms, and the Spirit Fish, which I'll go into more detail later)

The Spirit Fish are extremely easy to defeat. I hinted at that in an earlier post. Just get the Dragon Sword and jump back and forth. It's basically just from orbs or whatever the hell they are called from there on.

Quote from: Foggle on April 04, 2012, 09:19:04 PM
Everyone... watch this video from 1:15-3:10 and tell me this isn't the worst hack 'n slash game of the past three years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mSMM_dTRyY&feature=related

NOOOOO!! NOT A QTE! NOOOOO! That also reminds me how much I hate flying enemies in NG2...but this is far far worse.

That was actually the very first time I've seen any footage of that game...I want to keep it like that.

Quote from: Rynnec on April 05, 2012, 12:27:35 AM
Just beat Ninja Gaiden Sigma. The Final Boss was somewhat anticlimactic, but still fun. I have to say that I had to chuckle at the reveal of Murai being the main Villain. I had already known that before hand, but the way it was done and with no buildup whatsoever made it come across as a parody. :D And did Ryu turn into a rainbow at the end when he left Rachel?

Gonna try and beat Hard Mode now, mainly to unlock the Dark Dragon Blade (which I'm dissapointed you never properly used) and the Dark Dragon Costume.

:D Yeah, the only buildup is when Murai was talking about power for like a second at the beginning.

Quote from: Foggle on April 04, 2012, 09:10:37 PM

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 04, 2012, 09:05:26 PM

Quote from: Foggle on April 04, 2012, 08:51:25 PM
This first battle with the red-robed guy actually looks really fun. Very reminiscent of the boss fights in the Yakuza series.

Literally the only thing that's appealed to me so far.

That battle is pretty much one of the only highlights of this game, but the sad thing is that EVEN THAT has been done better in previous NG games. I mean, compare that battle to THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8QAxh5CtiU) one from NGB, and tell me which one seems more intense and requires more skill.

Awesome. Bonus points for the Doppelgangers not having any cheap-ass grab moves.

ARK just hit Steel On Bone five times in a row. My god Hayashi... what have you done to this series...

Sigma has a quite a few grab moves that do too much damage as well, not sure if the damage output for those moves are Sigma exclusive or not, but if they are than Hayashi definitely has a hard on for them or something.

I really don't like how 3 makes you so reliant on Ninpo to clear out waves of enemies. In the 1/Black/Sigma you could go through the game without using any Ninpo at all (and I'm sure the same applies to 2) and was actually quite useless from my experience. Here it's too overpowered and easy to fill up. To make things worse, not only do you only have that one Flaming Dragon attack (which, while pretty kickass at first, gets old fast) as your sole Ninpo, it also seems to be the only way to restore health. If Hayashi was going for health regenerating system, then he should have made it so that you get health restored as you do more damage to enemies, thus rewarding the player for playing well.

Quote from: Rynnec on April 06, 2012, 10:56:22 PM
Sigma has a quite a few grab moves that do too much damage as well, not sure if the damage output for those moves are Sigma exclusive or not, but if they are than Hayashi definitely has a hard on for them or something.

I actually don't mind the high damage of grab moves in the first game in general, because IMO there are clear warning animations for most of them that gives you plenty of time to react to them and evade them in time. It makes for some exciting reflex-based combat. Now, in Sigma 2 Hayashi really screws up on Master Ninja mode by making grab moves that OHK you, many of them occuring WITHOUT sufficient warning animation or even sound cues. Now that's just cheap BS.

QuoteI really don't like how 3 makes you so reliant on Ninpo to clear out waves of enemies. In the 1/Black/Sigma you could go through the game without using any Ninpo at all (and I'm sure the same applies to 2) and was actually quite useless from my experience.

On the harder difficulties Ninpo can come in really useful for the temporary invincibility that they give you, but other than that they don't have much strategic purpose in the 1st game, which I'm fine with since I always preferred NG games for their superb combat rather than having to rely on little gimmicks like Ninpo. The 2nd game did actually have a bit more strategic use for Ninpo on the harder difficulty settings, but once again didn't do too much with the concept, but its still a vital resource since it comes in very handy during some of the tougher fights of the game (specifically the BS boss fight in Chapter 9 which is ridiculously cheap without it, IMO).

QuoteHere it's too overpowered and easy to fill up. To make things worse, not only do you only have that one Flaming Dragon attack (which, while pretty kickass at first, gets old fast) as your sole Ninpo, it also seems to be the only way to restore health. If Hayashi was going for health regenerating system, then he should have made it so that you get health restored as you do more damage to enemies, thus rewarding the player for playing well.

Or he shouldn't have been a dumb-ass by removing essence from the game. That way blue orbs could refill your health when it was getting low provided that you could still kill enemies. I like how in NGB the game actually increases the rate of blue essence that you find specifically when you're health is low. It creates a very balanced feel to the difficulty and overall gameplay, and its a perfect option for people to use when they want to do handicap runs (which consists of playing the game on MNM without upgrading your original sized health bar and not using any ninpo throughout the entire game). Using Ninpo to restore you're health mid-battle is probably the stupidest "strategic" use he could have come up with for it. All it does is make battles more repetitive, as you'll basically just work towards building up your ninpo meter and unleashing it every time you're health gets low, also clearing the room of a number of enemies in the process.

Removing the essence also removes the charge attacks and all the strategic uses essence provided for it (e.g: killing the weakest enemy in a group and using its left over essence to charge up your move faster and unleashing it on a stronger enemy). 

Yeah. I mean, at first I didn't mind it since it stopped the exploitability of chaining UT attacks, so I thought the game would be more focused on free-forming when I initially realized that change. But the fact that Hayashi decided to make each battle an arena-style battle with countless enemies coming at you in each level, it made me wish that you could UT chain in NG3 just so that fights in the game would end MUCH quicker than what they take to complete. I don't mind nerfing the UTs since relying on them can make them overpowered at times, but if that's the case he should have improved the fundamentals of the regular combat. The fact that he actually regressed an already stellar combat system is proof of not only his inability as a game designer, but that he's just a flat-out bad game designer in general, at least when it comes to making a full-fledged action game from the ground up.

Really, I just hope that the current Team Ninja doesn't even touch Ninja Gaiden after the catastrophe that is NG3. They don't deserve to work on and screw up such a renowned and well-respected series, IMO. If Tecmo wants to make an NG4, or a new NG game in general, they'd better outsource it to a capable developer of action games rather than letting the hacks currently running Team Ninja take another stab at it. Of course, the most ideal thing for me as a fan of Itagaki's NG games would be for the NG IP to be outsourced to Valhalla Game Studios, but Itagaki has made it clear that he doesn't really have interest in making any more NG games and I'm pretty sure that he doesn't ever want anything to do with Tecmo anymore, either (which I can't blame him for, of course).

Since I'm a Ninja Gaiden fan, I'll still eventually end up playing NG3 just to say that I did, but I won't be buying it until around the end of Summer when it should drop to about $20 in price.

On the other hand, once my Summer starts up in May, it'll be a perfect opportunity for me to grab the DMC HD Collection to get my hack n' slash fix, though mainly with DMC3 which from what I've played of it is by far my most preferred game of the series. I felt that DMC4 toned things down way too much and that Nero was a less interesting character than Dante in terms of gameplay mechanics. The Devil Bringer arm was kind of cool at first but its novelty wore off fast, and while it is a useful mechanic in chaining together combos, it feels like a poor substitute for just giving Nero multiple weapons to switch between (like with Dante), instead. Its still a good game in its own right, IMO, but I stopped playing it half-way through DMD mode because I just wasn't feeling the same level of satisfaction with the game's combat as I was with the few hours I got to play of DMC3. As for the first game, admittedly I've only played through the first 4 missions of that game, and its definitely a great game, but I see it more as a great action/adventure game in general as opposed to a great hack n' slash game, since its combat system feels deeper than the average action game, but downright primitive in comparison to how far DMC3 took the combat system for the series.

Also, as far as hack n' slash games go I still have yet to actually pick up Bayonetta, so I'll be sure to do that as well before I work my way around to getting NG3 and trudging through its boring and repetitive campaign. Seeing as how Ninja Gaiden was my favorite action game series of all time, I just feel downright devastated by how far the series has fallen with just this 1 game. Here I was hoping for a new NG game that could compete with the likes of the highly praised Bayonetta, but instead what I got was an NG game that couldn't even compete with any average action game let alone a high-profile one made by actual talented developers who know how to make good action games.

Nero has better combos than DMC3 and 4 Dante.

Quote from: gunswordfist on April 07, 2012, 10:05:21 PM
Nero has better combos than DMC3 and 4 Dante.

Go watch any of the plethora of combo videos by DMC pros for Dante in DMC3 and then compare them to combo videos for Nero in DMC4. You are flat-out wrong, and I haven't even beat a single DMC game ASIDE from 4. Having played 4 up to DMD mode and having a relatively decent grasp on the main extents of Nero's combat system, I can say that even DMC4 Dante also has far more depth to him than Nero. Nero has 1 sword, 1 gun, and a Devil Bringer to chain combos with, and has some additional abilities in Devil Trigger Mode. Dante has 3 melee weapons that can be switched on the fly (even in mid-combos), 3 ranged weapons that can be switched on the fly (once again, even mid-combat), and one of his ranged weapons can be switched into different forms within itself (Pandora's Box). In addition to that Dante has 4 different styles (5 if you count the one that allows you to use Vergil's sword), and can also switch between those on the fly and in the middle of combat. The combo possibilities with Dante are nearly endless. In comparison Nero's combo-system feels downright shallow, though to be fair it still has more depth to it than any average hack n' slash game, but the bottom line is that you are flat-out wrong. ;)

DmC Dante has better combos than DMC 1-4 Dante and Nero. :happytime:

DmC? I can't recall any game with that title. You must be making things up. :>

dmc isn't about combos. In fact, you could say it's above simple things like gameplay. It's a tour-du-force. The future.

It's about the Underground man. It's about youth rebellion! Sticking it to the man! It's the voice of this generations youth.

Pandora's box sucks. Dante's only good for two swords (one is a style) and whatever Ifrit's called in DMC4. All take Nero's sword attacks and much better air combos (remember, DMC is great for juggling) over that.

Quote from: gunswordfist on April 08, 2012, 12:55:45 AM
Pandora's box sucks.

Pandora's Box has some of the best uses out of any ranged weapon in DMC4. Its hilarious how I know more about this game than you do considering its your favorite hack n' slash of this gen.

QuoteDante's only good for two swords (one is a style) and whatever Ifrit's called in DMC4. All take Nero's sword attacks and much better air combos (remember, DMC is great for juggling) over that.

Nero's Juggling is pathetic compared to Dante's, and Dante is FAR better for air-comboing than Nero. In fact, you can actually juggle stay in the air for as long as you're attacking an enemy with Dante without ever touching the ground, which isn't even possible with Nero. That even includes bosses. Won't proof. Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcqXpDMxi9E). There, I just factually proved your "opinion" wrong. :thumbup:

But, hey, if you prefer having only one boring melee weapon and ranged weapon set and don't actually like having any other weapons to enhance combat depth, then you should play this game called Ninja Gaiden 3, as it seems right up your alley. I mean, after all its easy and we all know how much of a pussy you are when it comes to having a real challenge. So don't worry, games like that will hold your hand all the way through, just like how Nero does in DMC4. :>

Quality > Quantity. And if you don't know how to stay in the air with Nero's Devil Bringer and how many more air attacks he has than Dante than you need to go see a doctor. Nero was clearly made to be more geared towards air comboing while Dante still just has the same sword air combo from DMC3.

Quote from: gunswordfist on April 08, 2012, 01:32:19 AM
Quality > Quantity.

Indeed. The thing is, Nero has absolutely NO quality to begin with. Red Queen is a lame-ass sword and is also much slower to wield than Dante's Rebellion, unless you use Exceed/MAX-Act which is a downright stupid way to have to power up Nero's attacks and actually get him to attack faster than a snail.

QuoteAnd if you don't know how to stay in the air with Nero's Devil Bringer and how many more air attacks he has than Dante than you need to go see a doctor.

I think you need to learn how to play the game. Nero's Devil Bring is a SHALLOW addition to the game for button-mashers like you. It helps him stay in the air longer but it requires absolutely no skill to use and Nero STILL can't air combo nearly as well as Dante even with utilizing the Devil Bringer arm.

Also, I'd tell you to see a doctor or psychologist in general, but the fact is nobody could help you with your immense stupidity.

QuoteNero was clearly made to be more geared towards air comboing

No. Nero was clearly made to be more geared towards the casual crowd such as yourself who have NO SKILL to be able to air combo the proper way. People like you are afraid of having to utilize actual skills in a game, after all. :>

Quotewhile Dante still just has the same sword air combo from DMC3.

First of all, even DMC3 Dante's air-combos are FAR superior to anything Nero can pull off. Second of all, DMC4 Dante can switch between styles on fly which was not possible in DMC3 in which you had to stick to one style at a time. That means that Dante can switch between Trickster and Sword Master which both drastically increase his air-combo abilities, with the former allowing him to maneuver in the air and stay in the air longer in general if utilized correctly, and the latter allowing him to use and chain together multiple extra sword combos in mid-air that he can't utilize when using another style. Once again, I find it hilarious that I know more about you favorite action game series than you do. :D

 :D Oh that's right, Dante has to change his freaking style just to use that one sword air combo. Doesn't he just do one attack in the air if he doesn't use those two styles? :lol:

And how are Dante's air combos superior? Again, Nero has more and he also beats Dante in quantity with his number of sword attacks. Sounds like you are geared towards not paying attention. :sly:

Quote from: gunswordfist on April 08, 2012, 01:50:05 AM
:D Oh that's right, Dante has to change his freaking style just to use that one sword air combo. Doesn't he just do one attack in the air if he doesn't use those two styles? :lol:

And everything you just said only confirms that Dante has superior combo abilities to Nero. So, yeah....you kind of just killed your own point with that post. Good job, you did my work for me. Now I don't even have to argue with you on that point. :thumbup:

QuoteAnd how are Dante's air combos superior?

A better question is how long has it been since you've had you're eyes checked....or your common sense for that matter? :>

QuoteAgain, Nero has more

How? All you say is that Nero is better. I at least offer factual evidence to support my claims. All you do is just claim stuff and can't even back it up. You argue like a 6-year old who just likes one character better than the other because he thinks he looks cooler or some stupid shit like that which doesn't concern me, being that I only give a shit about actual gameplay mechanics, with Nero severely lacking in that department.

Quoteand he also beats Dante in quantity with his number of sword attacks. Sounds like you are geared towards not paying attention. :sly:

Let's see, here are a list of ALL of Nero's pre-set combos and attacks:

Red Queen Combo A, B, C, D
Aerial Combo
Roulette Spin
High Roller
Streak (which is just a shittier version of Dante's Stinger)
Split
Double Down
Calibur
Shuffle

All together that's 12 different attacks. And that's ALL he can do with his sword aside from doing the EX versions of those moves, which are just more powered up versions of those combos that you can do by filling up you're EX-Guage.

Now look at Dante's melee abilities:

Rebellion:

Rebellion Combo A, B
Helm Breaker
High Time
Stinger
Million Stab
Round Trip
Prop (SM)
Shredder (SM)
Aerial Rave (SM)
Drive (SM)
Quick Drive (SM)
Over Drive (SM)
Dance Macabre (SM)

That's 14 combos with Rebellion ALONE, which already puts him above Nero, but hell, let's keep going with his other melee weapons:

Gilgamesh:

Gilgamesh Combo A, B
Full House
Draw
Straight
Kick 13
Flush
Shock! (SM)
Shocking! (SM)
Beast Uppercut (SM)
Rising Dragon (SM)
Divine Dragon (SM)
Real Impact (SM)

Lucifer:

Lucifer Combo A, B, C, D, E
Splash
Ecstasy
Pin-Up
Discipline (SM)
Climax (SM)
Bondage (SM)

BTW, Those names are intentional, its meant to be humorous in a really weird Japanese perverted sort of way. :D

Anyways, there you go. Dante factually beat Nero in quantity and anyone with a brain can tell that his combat just has more depth and thus far more actual quality to it. You basically have no argument against me here, GSF. :sly:

Just for comparison's sake (since I was feeling bored), here is a list of Ryu's combos for each of his weapons in NG2, starting with the Dragon Sword:

Dragon Sword:

Ground:
Piercing Dragon's Fang X, X, X, X, X 1
Dragon Tear X, X, X, Forward + X 3
Steel Splitter X, X, X, Y 4
Tiger Roar X, X, Y 1
Fang of the Wolf X, X, Y, Y 2
Fortuitous Phoenix X, X, Y, Y, Y, Y 3
Ikaruga X, X, Y, Forward + Y 2
Seal of Ten X, X, Forward + X, X 1
Three Lights X, X, Forward + X, Y 1
Wrath of Izanagi X, X, Forward + X, Y, Y 2
Blade of the Empty Air X, Y, X 1
Blade of Susano'o X, Y, X, X, X, X 2
Izuna Drop (Throw) X, Y, X, X, X, Y 2
Scarlet Dragon X, Hold Y 1
Cloud Dragon Flying Swallow X, Hold Y, Y, Y, Y 4
Windmill Slash Forward + X 1
Violent Wind Forward + X, X, Forward + X 1
Violent Gale Forward + X, X, Forward + X, X 2
Piercing Wind Forward + X, X, Forward + Y 1
Dragon of Heaven Forward + X, X, Forward + Y, Y, Forward + Y 2
Dragon of Earth Forward + X, X, Forward + Y, Y, Forward + Hold Y 2
Crimson Tempest Y, Y 1
Undefeatable Demon Y, Y, Y 2
Haze Straight Slash Hold Y 1
Oblivion Cross Cut Hold Y with essence 1
Blade of the Dragon's Scales Hold Y with maximum essence 4
Azure Dragon Forward + Y 1
Scarlet Dragon Forward + Hold Y 1
Violent Wind X (while running) 1
Violent Gale X, X (while running) 2
Piercing Wind Y (while running) 1
Dragon of Heaven Y, Y, Forward + Y (while running) 2
Dragon of Earth Y, Y, Forward + Hold Y (while running) 2
Flying Crane Circle + Y 2
Gleaming Blade Circle + Hold Y 3
Roaring Gleam Circle + Hold Y with essence 3
True Dragon Gleam Circle + Hold Y with maximum essence 4
Deep Crimson X, X (while blocking) 1
Gleaming Cross Y (while blocking) 1
Rising Dragon Y (next to downed enemy) 1

In Air:
Blade of the Empty Air X 1
Blade of Nirrti X, X, X, X 2
Izuna Drop (Throw) X, X, X, Y 2
Helmet Splitter Y 1
Air Destruction Slash X (while jumping forward) 1
Falling Dragon Blade Y (while jumping forward) 1
Flying Swallow Forward + Y (while jumping forward) 1
Azure Swallow Forward + Y, Y (while jumping forward) 2
Divine Flying Swallow Forward + Y, Y, Y (while jumping forward) 3
Spinning Blade X (while landing jump) 2
Guillotine Throw (Throw) A + X (while jumping near enemy) 1

On Wall:
Flying Swallow X or Y (while wall running) 1
Flying Dragon Blade X 1
Cicada Slash Y 1
Divine Flying Dragon X (during Flying Bird Flip) 1
Divine Cicada Slash Y (during Flying Bird Flip) 1

In Water:
Divider of Waves X, X (while running on water) 1
Blade of Empty Water X, Y, X (while running on water) 1
Blade of Empty Seas X, Y, X, X (while running on water) 2
Aquatic Flying Swallow Y (while running on water) 1
Heavy Mists X (at water surface) 1
Flying Osprey Y (at water surface) 1
Demon Shark X (underwater) 1
Great Demon Shark Y (underwater) 1

Movement:
Reverse Wind Left Trigger + any movement 1
Wind Path A (while jumping near enemy) 1
Wind Run A + X 1
Flying Bird Flip A (on wall) 1
Calm Water Run A + X (while running on water) 1
Calm Water Break Left Trigger + A (while running on water) 1

I just realized that posting up all of the combos for each of Ryu's weapons in NG2 went WAY over the character limit for a single post on this board.

Maybe I'll post the rest up tomorrow in single installments just to forcibly remind people why Itagaki's NG games will never be topped by anything the hacks and Tecmo try to do without him. ;)

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 08, 2012, 02:10:03 AM
Discipline (SM)
Climax (SM)
Bondage (SM)

:whuh:

Actually, Drive attack, any form of Stinger and upward slash attacks aren't combos. Nero has more attacks per combo (which is what I was talking about). Nice try writing all of that for no reason though. :sly:

How do you not notice these things? I mean, look at the cutscene where Dante receives the damn weapon for the first time. Its basically an entire minute of him sputing out sexual innuendo. :blush:

Quote from: gunswordfist on April 08, 2012, 11:51:50 AM
Actually, Drive attack, any form of Stinger and upward slash attacks aren't combos. Nero has more attacks per combo (which is what I was talking about). Nice try writing all of that for no reason though. :sly:

You mentioned sword attacks. You never used the terminology combos. The funny thing is that if you take away that stuff from Dante you also take away Nero's "basic attacks" as well, leaving him with only 4 combos. Once again, you still just proved yourself wrong. And yet again, you just did my work for me. Good job there, pal. :>

Take this with a grain of salt because it's just a rumor, but apparently Ninja Gaiden 3's sales are absolutely pathetic. It's sold something like 100,000 copies across both consoles. That's worse than No More Heroes back when it was Wii-exclusive.

Regardless of rumors, I wouldn't doubt one bit that this game sold like shit. If it sold 100,000 copies, then its lucky that it even got that far, because it certainly doesn't deserve it.

This will lead to either one of 2 things happening. Either:

1. Tecmo will assume that nobody wants to play Ninja Gaiden games anymore and will stop producing new Ninja Gaiden games in general and focus on Dead or Alive which is basically the ONLY popular franchise they have left....until they screw that up as well

OR....

2. Tecmo will see that Ninja Gaiden is basically still one of the only 2 popular series they have and will learn from their mistake of letting a hack like Hayashi and whoever the director of NG3 was lead the development of such an important series, and either higher a more talented lead developer to make the next NG game, OR outsource the next NG game to a developer that is talented in making hack n' slash based action games, which means they'd essentially have to either outsource NG4 to Platinum (and I doubt they'd actually be interested in working on an NG game, to be honest), or Itagaki (who I KNOW is not interested in working on another NG game, and even if he was he wouldn't do any favors for Tecmo after how badly they pissed him off).

So, yeah, the Ninja Gaiden series is pretty much screwed in terms of getting any sequels, or if it does they will either be poor or have to be on a much smaller scale and probably be XBLA/PSN or handheld spin-offs (which in its own way could be a GREAT thing for the series IF it actually had talented and creative developers behind it, but of course that's no longer the case), but most likely the series will now die a sad and meaningless death like it did back with the NES era NG games, but hopefully just like NG on the XBOX resurrected the series with a bang, maybe someday a decade or so in the future the series can once again be revived by a talented developer who has a great respect for old-school gaming. Sadly, with the direction gaming has been moving in this generation, if things continue this way and with this mind-set, than the Ninja Gaiden series is pretty much doomed to fade into obscurity in almost no time at all. In that regard, I can't really even blame Hayashi and Team Ninja for that since I felt that this was bound to happen regardless of how NG3 turned out to be, but making an absolutely horrid NG game in an attempt to cater to a mainstream audience only added in that extra nail into the coffin and pretty much confirmed the death of this series. At least of NG3 was good enough fans would have supported it to get at least a couple more sequels out of the series before it finally died out. With this we now end the NG series on an extremely low note.

Yeah, Chapter 9 was a pain in the ass. After going through that long ass tunnel multiple times my strategy of using the chain weapon because its UT plays out even when a target isn't hit and having that bitchass worm run into it finally worked. I did appreciate all the Essence I got. I got to upgrade 2 weapons I believe after the tunnel and I think one more a little later on and then I believe after that Chapter from left over Essence. Before that, it was life having a budget where you afford to also have your girlfriend eat when you go to a restaurant. It's been forever since I upgraded because everything went towards healing items (not including the too expensive rebirth whatsitcallit) with the occasional purchase of arrows and incendiary shuriken. After that I had everything and all my weapons were upgraded at least once with a few max outs in there.

I loved Chapter 10. Best parts where the army of ninjas coming down the stairs and when they winged demon ran through the door the second I opened the door after a save point/shop part. I was like "WTH?!" Elizebet was really easy. :sly:

Yeah, chapter 10 is awesome, with the exception of that lame acid-cave section. The whole chapter was full of tough enemies from start to finish and the staircase battle with the hundred ninjas charging down at you was nothing short of epic. Elizabet is easy on Acolyte and Warrior, but she's a real bitch on Mentor and Master Ninja, to the point of just being plain not fun to fight.

As for chapter 11, its also an awesome chapter provided you play the game on the harder difficulties (the way it was meant to be played), and are actually pretty good at the game. The enemy carnage that occurs in that level is still unrivaled by any other game that I've played.

Chapter 12 is another pain in the ass chapter, though not as bad as chapter 9, and chapter 13 is kind of cool for free-forming potential, but aside from that its a pretty bland and uninspired chapter that's really just nothing but enemy gauntlets followed by small waves of enemies one after another. Chapter 14 is also pretty weak, honestly, with the only really cool boss fight being Fiend Genshin and the 1st form of the Archfiend. Elizabet is still no fun to fight, The Archfiend form 2 is a pretty "meh" final boss, and Dagra Dai is a cheap-ass motherfucker.

I actually really like Chapter 12 and 13. Archfiend's first form is pissing me off though. I believe I finally figured out a strategy for it but after like 30 deaths, the game is getting a break from me until tomorrow.

I like Chapter 13 as well, but I just feel that the level design itself is really bland in the sense that it feels like a filler chapter. I do love it for the ability to free-form small groups of enemies at your will, though.

The Archfiend's first form is actually really easy. All you have to do is charge a UT with your bow and use the auto-aiming feature. I hope that you aren't manually aiming at the boss, since the auto-aim works perfectly on it and makes it FAR easier to deal with. Other than that, all you have to do is quickly dash to the other side of the screen every single time that you hit it, so that you can avoid its attacks and charge up and hit it with another shot before it has a chance to attack you again. If it happens to summon those spirits on you, all you have to do is activate your Flame Phoenix ninpo to shield yourself from their attacks (it works just fine even if its only at level 1). Its actually a really easy boss fight at its core.

Recently I sat down and played some classic Ninja Gaiden II for old time's sake. To any modern gamer who has never played a side-scroller like this before and has been conditioned to the easy hand-holding of modern games, this would be one of the WORST games to use to introduce them to classic gaming. And you know what? I love this game for that. It kicks your ass right from the start. Its not insanely hard or anything once you practice with it, and its considerably easier and less cheap than the first NG game, but its still ruthless and unforgiving to those just starting out the game, or in my case since I was really rusty with the game I died quite a few times in the 2nd level alone. What I like about the game, though, is that there almost always seems to be a perfect way to maneuver through a crowd of enemies and make a flawless path for yourself without getting touched and being as quick and efficient as possible with supreme ninja acrobatics. This is a game that earns the right to have the world "ninja" in its title.

I really wish Tecmo would've made a Ninja Gaiden IV in the same vein that Capcom made Mega Man 9 and 10. I'd love a good throw-back game that brought back the spirit of the classic games. Of course I'm a huge fan of Itagaki's 3D NG games, and to be honest I do consider those to be superior games on the whole, but the retro gamer in me just wants some classic style Ninja Gaiden right now.

Something else that I would REALLY appreciate, though, if a creative and talented enough developer were to make it, would be a 16-bit "Super" Ninja Gaiden. That is to say, I would like to see the 16-bit evolution of the classic side-scrolling NG game that I had always wanted but never got. Other great series like Mario, Castlevania, Contra, and many others that were hits in the 8-bit era got fantastic new installments in the SNES and Genesis era that really took them to new tiers and let them explore all new kinds of gameplay elements while still sticking true to their classic formulas. I REALLY wanted to see that happen for Ninja Gaiden but never got it. Its something that I'm sure will never happen, but if I were to name the number one most wanted game that I would want to get made, it would be Super Ninja Gaiden (with the Super being what I would expect an SNES Ninja Gaiden title to be called, being that it was what every other big Nintendo franchise making the jump to 16-bit was getting stuck in their title).

Sadly, Ninja Gaiden fans like myself get shitty developers like Hayashi making crappy games like the NG3 that we just got, which shits all over the fundamentals of the entire series from the NES games to Itagaki's NG games. Its a sad time to be fan of this series. :imnothappy:

Beat Archfiend and of course the game at 3 pm today. Beat that Dagai jackass with the right amt of items left, actually used auto aim and easily beat AF's 1st form. After something over 10 tries I beat his 2nd form with the staff. lol at Ryu accidentally reviving him.Do you have to do new game plus on the same difficulty?

Yeah, the new game + feature only works on the difficulty that you beat the game on. There are 2 options you have: You can do a successive play and keep you're arsenal just the way it was when you beat the game (with basically all or most of your weapons upgraded, as well as you're health bar and ninpo slots), or you can choose to start out again with all of your weapons at their base stats/forms (basically they all start out at level one) and lose all items you were carrying on you in addition to starting out with your original-sized health bar and only 3 ninpo slots (this mode is basically only something you would choose if you want to actually be able to upload your Karma scores online or if you want to do a handicap run but don't want to be limited to just the Dragon Sword).

If you start a new game on a harder difficulty setting, you'll have to beat that difficulty from the ground up before you can unlock new game + for it. The reason its not the same as how DMC lets you carry you're weapons and abilities to the next difficulty level is because its meant to be a challenge and you have to earn those weapons again by starting out with your base-stats once again when you start a higher difficulty for the first time. It makes the first few stages extremely challenging, but it also makes you multiple times better at the game if you can make it past the first few chapters since it forces you to dramatically improve you're most essential skills before you can earn the higher-powered weapons and increased health and ninpo to give you a much better advantage in the tougher fights later on in the game.

NG 3 now has a downloadable demo. You gonna' grab it, EK? :sly:

I heard about this on the NG board yesterday, and I honestly checked for it but didn't find any demo up. Either it got taken down after a brief amount of time or for some reason Team Ninja decided to pull the XBOX360 version of the NG3 demo while leaving it up for PS3 users. Either way, I can't locate any demo, and I've looked everywhere for it.

That isn't to say that I'm at all eager to play this game, but as a huge Ninja Gaiden fan I'm at least curious enough to want to try the worst game in the franchise (well, OK, to be fair the Game Gear NG is probably the worst one, but still, this game is a travesty).

Just played the demo. The few good things I can say about it are: The music is good (particularly the main menu theme), and the combat looks cool, if nothing else. Everything else is just bleh. The enemies are so easy it's pathetic, the boss was a joke, the stealth segments are ass, and the kunai climbing is a pain.

Pretty much what I was expecting from the game.

Having played the first game rather recently, how would you say that this game compares to that in terms of combat mechanics and its overall level of fun, from your perspective?

To be more specific, does the combat seem as responsive and precise as the first game, or does this game clearly feel like it was made by an entirely different team than the one that made the first game?

I just played a bit of NG2 since I was in the mood (and on Acolyte, no less), being that I'm burned out for the day and won't be able to resume studying until the evening since I just need a few hours to chill out and get back into the mood to hit the books (which is basically what I've been doing all semester, anyways, so I deserve a break every now and then).

I was messing around with the Vigoorian Flails, among other weapons. First off, aside from this weapon getting a MAJOR upgrade from the flails in the first game (and I liked those weapons as they were in the first game), I just have to give this game credit for its massively improved combat system (and once again, I already thought it was a good combat system as it was in NGB). Everything just feels so much faster without sacrificing any of the precision and depth of the first game. Hell, this game has far deeper combat that just about trumps the first game in every way in terms of both fluidity and general mechanics. That said, I do see how some people would be turned off by the over-the-top nature of the dismemberment in this game, but Ninja Gaiden has always been a more "cartoony" kind of game to me since the NES days, and I feel that the absurd nature of having enemies easily dismembered fits in just fine with a Ninja Gaiden game. The thing I like about it so much, though, is that its not purely just a visual aesthetic as so many onlookers of the series seem to think. It has a very mechanical and strategic element to it that really influences how you play the game on the higher difficulties. You'll want to learn what specific weapons have higher dismemberment rates than others on which specific enemies, and which moves for each specific weapon bring that dismemberment rate to its max. Its all about efficiency rather than just stringing together combos (basically, take your enemies out as fast and effectively as possible before they have a chance to do some serious damage to you), but the beauty of this game is that, aside from MNM, you can play with a free-flow comb-heavy style if you so choose to, as well. This game doesn't limit you to just one play-style (once again, except for MNM, which I'm OK with since Mentor still provides plenty of challenge and replay value on its own), and in general I feel like the game's combat alone offers you up so much variety that it never really feels repetitive (unless you just play it safe and stick with the Dragon Sword the whole time if only for the sake of familiarity). Even weapons which I used to dislike turn out to be brilliant and have their uses once I experiment with them a little bit, such as the Kusari-Gama.

Even without having played it, I can tell that Ninja Gaiden 3 clearly missed the point of all of that. I wanted to see the game improve on NG2's weaknesses while still retaining its amazing combat system. Hell, that's what just about EVERYBODY wanted, especially Ninja Gaiden fans. How Team Ninja decides to instead regress with the combat system and do nothing to improve the weaknesses of the previous games in any conceivable way is beyond me. It seems so simple, but I guess that team really is clueless on how to make a video game without Itagaki and the other third or so of the team that he took with him when he left. Quite clearly it must have been the only good third of the team. The rest of them just have just been there strictly for the labor part of the programming, rather than for any of the creative parts of it.

It definitely feels more sluggish than the first game. The game feels slower in general really.

In terms of the combats fun factor, it has a few good things going for it. Its flashy and over-the-top (the pseudo-finishing move animations are particularly fun to watch), and some of the choreogrophy is good (sans the steel-on-bone miscreant), and the combos look pretty kickass in and of themselves. Of course, this all of this is mitigated by the fact that you're just mindlessly mashing one button, two buttons when you get bored, without regard for even the most basic of strategy. It gets to the point where you just want to use your Ninpo just to get things done and over with.  If this games enemies were as tough as Sigma's, I'd deliberately ignore any easy-tickets like Ninpo so I could test my abilities against them. I hardly remember blocking all that much either, in Sigma blocking was a vital part of the combat, here I just blocked once or twice.

The game also becomes harder the more you clear out enemies. So say you're fighting like two dozen mooks, and you manage to dwindle them down to two, those two enemies will give you a harder time as a duo than they did as a large group. ProjectARK goes into slightly more detail on this in his playthrough of the game.

And this is a minor nitpick, but when the game forces you to kill the soldier, it automatically equips the Dragon Sword, regardless of what weapon you had equipped before. If the game's gonna force me to be a dick for no reason, at least let me go Grim Reaper on the guys ass.

So, I finally played the demo.

Its even WORSE than I expected, if you can believe that. I was expecting a mindless hack n' slash game, which was bad enough, but this game can't even FUNCTION right. I encountered slow-down occurring on and off whenever the game felt like it, in the middle of battles. That is  to say, the game would only be responsive to me when it wanted to, and it really hampered my controller input, so there were at least 1 out of every 3 or so times I tried to pull off a move that ended up failing because of a mixture of slow-down in the frame rate and unresponsive controls. NEITHER of the first 2 games had this problem at all, and I found this problem occurring in a POST-RELEASE demo of this game, for crying out loud. I shudder to think just how bad the actual game must be to play if its like this the whole fucking time.

I tried out all 3 weapons, and I have to say that the Scythe in particular was HORRIBLY butchered in this game. I don't mind that the move-set works differently, as its a sequel and it should be different. That said, I hate the fact that this weapon clearly does NOT work with their SoB mechanic in mind. Its way too powerful so after just 1 or 2 hits I already involuntarily enter an SoB animation, and end up killing an enemy even if I don't want to. its out of my control.

In fact, "control" is the key word of the day, here. Easy or not, I could at least still enjoy this game if I felt I was mostly in control of my own actions like in the first 2 games. Over here, I honestly feel more like the game is playing itself for me if all I do  to give my own input is to press X repeated, and maybe through a Y in there when I feel like it if I want to see a slight bit of variation. The other major control issue I have with this game is the idiotic decision they made to have you automatically enter an OT animation whenever an enemy is in a near death state, regardless of whether you press X or Y (in the 2nd game you specifically had to press Y to do so, because it was supposed to be in your control), and regardless even of whether you are already in the middle of a combo or not. This leads to many moments in which I'm trying to set up a combo string for myself and automatically have it interrupted by a finishing move that's been pulled off against my will.

Another thing I hate about this game is that it becomes so lenient with the button-timing for combos that it actually actively pulls off combos for you that were the same ones that took MUCH more skill and precision to pull off in NG2. I was infuriated to see that I unintentionally pulled off one of my favorite moves with the Falcon's Talons in NG3 that took me some practice to get down in NG2, and I really wasn't even trying to do that.

I absolutely detest that this game thinks so lowly of the average player (even the typical gamer isn't that pathetically unskilled that they need the game to do everything for them) that it downright takes the responsive controls from the previous games out of their hands and instead just rewards them for tapping X repeatedly. To put things into perspective, even God of War has FAR more precision than this game. Hell, even NINJA BLADE of all things is more responsive than this piece of garbage. I hope that Yosuke Hayashi and everyone at Tecmo who had a hand in making the key decisions for this game's design end up realizing just how terrible they are as game designers. I hope that they realize that they don't belong in the video game industry and leave it entirely to pursue other interests, because they really should NOT be making games. I have never been so pissed off at a game in my life, but this game is so actively stupid its insulting. I mean, its not just that they made bad design decisions in general and made a far inferior game in that regard, but they even fucked with the one thing that the first 2 games got definitively right with both fans and critics alike, the combat system. This game completely fucked with it and made it infuriatingly unresponsive and basically turned one of the best combat systems of all time into a combat system that's even worse than the average hack n' slash game of this generation. Truly, if there were any doubts before, it can now be seen that the first 2 games were good BECAUSE of Itagaki and his key members who he took with him after leaving Tecmo. Its just so blatantly obvious by how bad this game is, or this is at least the case for Ninja Gaiden, since to be fair I can't judge DOA5 being that I'm not even much of a fan of the previous games and don't really have anything to compare it to. Still, I would not be one bit surprised if they manage to fuck that game up, too.

DOA 5 has QTEs.

Quote from: Foggle on May 06, 2012, 01:52:20 PM
DOA 5 has QTEs.

Actually, it does not. It just has a new mechanic that is its equivalent of the "special attacks" that are common in fighting games these days. They are called "power blows" and they are completely under player control (so even if you have one that's ready to use, you don't have to). If you do choose to do it then there is a moment where you choose to press one of 2 buttons to attack or throw, while you're opponent presses one of 2 buttons to guard or block, but those aren't QTE either but rather just an extension of the rock-paper-scissor system that the DOA games have with their combat system. In this regard, even Team Ninja isn't stupid enough to put QTEs into a fighting game that's based off of precision and player control. At least I hope they aren't that stupid, but so far they haven't shown anything like that in the game, yet.

I heard it did, but that was from GameFAQs people. Can never trust them.

Hopefully they'll get DOA 5 right. Some of my friends liked the 3DS one.

The funny thing about the 3DS one is that while it got decent reviews and reception, many long-time fans have pointed out that it completely recycles both stages and characters from previous games. That is to say, everything about it that is good still essentially comes from material in Itagaki's DOA games. This is the first DOA game that's made completely without Itagaki.

For what its worth, it doesn't look nearly ad bad as NG3, and fans of DOA who know and love previous DOA games have been responding quite positively so far to both the demo and the footage of this game. It also has a different half of the team working on it than the one that worked on Ninja Gaiden (Team Ninja was effectively splint into 2 since they were working on both projects simultaneously), and of course the director of DOA5 is different from NG3. So, lets just hope for Team Ninja's sake that its the good half of the team, if it DOES indeed have a good half.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abload.de%2Fimg%2Fng3dindbjo9.gif&hash=221e647ff76f93b710a3e3ca826e2f54e62ee43a)

Beautiful.

Damnit, Foggle! Stop reminding me about the worst thing to happen to all of gaming! :anger: (IMO, of course) :>

Platinum's Atsushi Inaba had this to say:

QuoteThere are comparisons being made between Metal Gear Rising and Ninja Gaiden. I really don't want this to be compared with that shitty game Ninja Gaiden 3.

https://twitter.com/PG_inaba/status/208878552341430272

Yeah, if I was making an action game, I wouldn't want it compared to the worst action game in recent memory, either. ;)

Seriously, I hope Hayashi is really being exposed to all of this verbal criticism that his game is getting. He really deserves the back-lash. So does all of Tecmo. What ignorant people to pretty much ignore everything that fans wanted and make a sequel that NOBODY wanted. This game almost makes me feel ashamed to be an NG fan. Now, until some other NG game miraculously comes out to clear this shit-stain's name by actually being good, I have a feeling that I'll get a lot of funny looks from people when I claim to be an NG fan, because in their mind this piece of garbage is the first thing that'll come to their mind. None of you have any idea how hard it is to be an NG fan in this day and age, when even the series itself finally gave its fans the middle finger (or at least Tecmo did).

I don't know if anyone cares at this point, but in the Wii U third party montage (http://animationrevelation.com/forum/index.php) there's footage of Ryu using a Wind Ninpo that doesn't look too overpowered, insteado of the fire dragon one. However, Steel-on-bone still seems to be present. If this were a better game, I'd be dissapointed that the Wind Ninpo didn't manifest itself as some kind of animal too (i.e, something like a Wind Bird).

What do you guys think? Last ditch effort for TN to save the dignity of NG3?

The only way to possibly salvage NG3 would be to just redo the entire game from scratch. At this point, even if they brought back all of the weapons from the previous games, which would be more than 3 times the weapon offering that this game has (and that's INCLUDING the DLC), it still wouldn't make this a better game, because its core mechanics are totally screwed up, its enemies are pathetically brain-dead, and its level design is some of the most bland and uninspired that I've seen in any action game this generation. I'll tell you this much for sure, after that travesty, its going to take A LOT to win back the NG crowd, and even then that wouldn't be enough to make up for the clear losses that Tecmo made on this game (selling much less than a million copies is a huge step down from the previous games).

That's what pisses me off the most. I could handle a bad Ninja Gaiden game, but I can't deal with the likelihood that it'll also be the last Ninja Gaiden game. Its just so sad to end such a great series on such a sour note.

Oh, BTW, that wind ninpo is ripped straight from NG2, so its also nothing new. Hayashi can't even come up with his own stuff anymore.

What makes NG3 all the more infuriating, is that the multiplayer mode looks like it plays exactly like the previous games. So there's virtually no reason Tecmo couldn't have made the single-player campaign have the same mechanics.

Needless to say, it looks like Nintendo is going to try to make the best out of a bad game. (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/30552) Ideally, this can lead to Nintendo making NG4 themselves, but that's probably just me being too optimistic.

If they remove Steel On Bone, add in more weapons, tone down the QTEs, get rid of the cowardly enemies, throw out the "I'M JUST TRYING TO FEED MY KIDS" sequence, improve the AI to add actual challenge, and redo nearly every single boss fight, then it might be worth playing. Might.

Quote from: Foggle on June 06, 2012, 01:57:48 PM
If they remove Steel On Bone, add in more weapons, tone down the QTEs, get rid of the cowardly enemies, throw out the "I'M JUST TRYING TO FEED MY KIDS" sequence, improve the AI to add actual challenge, and redo nearly every single boss fight, then it might be worth playing. Might.

So, in other words, they'd need to make an entirely new (and better) game from scratch in order to make this game any good. Yeah, my thoughts exactly. ;)

I honestly wouldn't mind Ninja Gaiden going back to its old home on Nintendo, though. Sure, the series was never a Nintendo exclusive, but Nintendo is where it gained its recognition and became popular back in the day. Actually, what would be fitting would be for Nintendo to publish a rebooted classic-style NG series in the vein of the NES games (they could call it New Ninja Gaiden, like how they have the NSMB series and such). The modern Ninja Gaiden series could continue as a multiplatform release across all HD consoles, whereas Nintendo could have exclusivity to the classic style NG series. I'd totally be up for that, myself, as long as Nintendo got anyone other than Team Ninja to make the classic style games, and Tecmo outsourced the next modern NG game to Valhalla Game Studios so that Itagaki and co. could work on it. That is of course impossible given the luck of my favorite series in the video game industry, but a guy can dream. :thumbup:

MOTHER FUCKERS! (http://e3.nintendo.com/games/#/wiiu/ninja-gaiden)

QuoteFeatures:

Unique Wii U controls ? During single-player mode, players can enjoy faster and more fluid action by using the touch screen of the Wii U GamePad controller to select weapons, execute Ninpo, see in-game information and much more.

New Weapons and Ninpo Types ? Exclusive to the Wii U version, the game includes six weapon types and three Ninpo types, allowing for greater game-play variation and deeper strategy.

Character/Weapon Progression System ? Using the Karma points earned during game play, a player can upgrade his weapons and Ninpo and increase the character HP level.

Faster, More Intense Battles ? Improved enemy AI, the return of dismemberment, as well as new enemy types and battle areas have been added for greater variety in battles and increased replay value.

Multiple new weapons, multiple ninpo, CHARACTER PROGRESSION/WEAPON UPGRADES (which I assume means that shops are returning), IMPROVED ENEMY AI, new enemy types, and RETURN OF THE DISMEMBERMENT SYSTEM!

In other words, everything that already SHOULD HAVE been in the original version of the game to begin with (and hilariously, even with 6 weapons this game STILL falls short of the first 2 games in weapon variety).

So, in other words, Tecmo/Team Ninja are trolling every poor sap who bought this game on the XBOX360 and PS3. Thankfully I didn't buy it, and now I'm not going to. The game will still probably suck, but at least with those additions I might actually be able to stomach playing through it. But, yeah, yet another third party game that will be better on the WiiU, even though its still a piece of shit either way you look at it. Still, that information enrages me more than anything. Why not make a proper NG4 and let each system have those additions, Why should Team Ninja troll long-time fans who have supported their games on the XBOX360 and even the PS3 (with the Sigma games), by not even giving them a complete fucking game. I seriously want to punch Yosuke Hayashi in the face right now.

Wow. Now all they have to do is remove Steel On Bone and tighten up the boss fights and it might actually be worth playing. Though they should also consider cutting out the cowardly enemies and I'M JUST TRYIN TO FEED MY KIDS shit.

They should remove all of the cut-scenes, while their at it. In past NG games the stories sucked, but at least you could ignore them and they weren't a primary focus of the game. In NG3, however, the forced the shitty story on you, and it was absolutely cringe-worthy. This game would actively be better without any story at all. Either that, or overhaul the whole damn thing and add in new cut-scenes and pretend its a completely different story, and that the story of the HD games never happened; in my mind they never did....and yes, as terrible as NG games are at story-telling, I have worked out my own "canon" for them in my head....when I had way too much time on my hands. :D

No, but seriously, everything here is the MINIMUM of what fans were expecting in the NG3 that we got. I feel sorry for long-time fans who bought this game and were left so utterly disappointed. They deserve much better treatment than that.

Oh, and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSBqRXcKLN4&feature=g-all-u), would you look at that. Dismemberment is back (though it looks way too over-the-top here, even by NG2's standards). Still, I'm really pissed. This should have been there to begin with.

You can actually skip the cutscenes in NG3 by pressing start, and selecting "skip movie" during the cutscene. You have to wait 10 seconds after the cutscene starts before the option becomes highlighted though.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 07, 2012, 05:25:45 PM
Oh, and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSBqRXcKLN4&feature=g-all-u), would you look at that. Dismemberment is back (though it looks way too over-the-top here, even by NG2's standards). Still, I'm really pissed. This should have been there to begin with.

The game looks like a has a semblance of fun now. It probably won't bring back the challenge of the previous games, but it should be good for blowing off steam, and being flashy.

Metal Gear Rising is still better. :P

Well, yeah, that game is being made by actual talented developers and actually has good groundwork gameplay to build off of. Ninja Gaiden 3 was made by a faux-Team Ninja that didn't really consist of the same team that made the first 2 NG games, since most of the team members resigned from Tecmo after NG2 was completed, and Itagaki took a bunch of them with him when he collaborated with Kanematsu to create VGS.

Still, maybe this team can actually gain some experience and work from the ground up to get the NG series back to its former glory, but unfortunately that's just wishful thinking on my part. We'd need Itagaki and the rest of Team Ninja back if we ever wanted a true NG sequel that could potentially put all of its competitors to shame.

Holy shit. They're actually doing it. (http://www.2d-x.com/ninja-gaiden-3-razors-edge-wii-u-it-doesnt-suck/)

This may not end up being as good as the previous games, but damn, they're actually trying this time.

Holy shit! Did they... did they seriously find a way to make NG 3 good? :o Good on you, Team Ninja!

Actually, the general thought now is that Team Ninja underhandedly had this planned for a LONG time. Remember how NG3 was announced with the subtitle "Razor's Edge" on the Wii U indicating that it would have lots of additional content to it like the Sigma games, hence getting a significant subtitle to indicate its difference? That was at last year's E3, and most fans now figure that there's no way that Team Ninja could just implement these changes in the game for the Wii U's launch which is just a few months away, as it releases later this year. These changes and additions of gameplay elements would have had to have been in the works for longer than that if they would need them functional for a Wii U launch, and now the speculation is that Team Ninja made a deal with Nintendo long ago to release all of this content exclusively on the Wii U version, but Team Ninja got lazy and instead of creating lots of content they just gave us XBOX360 and PS3 owners HALF of a game and are simply now just releasing the full game with some minor new additions on the Wii U, which honestly seems pretty plausible given just how substantially different and better this version of the game is shaping up to be.

If this is really true, then it may make for a better game (though still laughably inferior to the first 2 games), but it'll come at the cost of betraying the core NG fan-base since it'd force them to buy a new console and buy the game again to get the full experience, which is just fucking underhanded business practice on Tecmo and Team Ninja's part.

Unbelievable.

I'd still rather a port of Ninja Gaiden Black and Ninja Gaiden II.

I'd rather than make a new Ninja Gaiden game entirely rather than trying to salvage a crappy one. Preferably a new 2D entry. But, yeah, like always that's never going to happen, given the luck us NG fans have. :imnothappy:

Have any of you guys ever seen the Turbografix 16 ports of the Ninja Gaiden games? They look totally different and have completely different sounding music and sound effects. They even have THEIR OWN SPELLING MISTAKES!

"Father, I swear I will revenge your death!" :sly:

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj_nZdlr9bU) is the entire first game in action on the TG16.

So, this (http://youtu.be/CRlyL8XMJAQ?t=3m28s) video reviews the Game Gear Ninja Gaiden game (along with various other Game Gear titles) in relatively good video quality. Apparently an iOS game ripped this off. Considering that this game looks like utter shit as it is, that's just sad.

At any rate, I'd still play this game just because its a Ninja Gaiden game and I will play every NG game in existence at some point in time, even the most obscure ones.

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/07/06/devils-third-to-be-expanded-into-film-manga-and-animation-as-well/

So... they're going to make a movie adaptation? That's cool.

More importantly; PC version confirmed! YES!

Well, as a new company (relatively, anyways) without a single game out yet, I think that they want to start out with a franchise in mind to expand and grow off of. All of those adaptations will probably only happen if the game is successful, though, and even then it'll probably be stuff like novel and manga spin-offs rather than a movie or anime. That said, it definitely shows how ambitious of a project this is for them, and it means that Itagaki and his team must have been putting their all into this game. That said, if THQ is any indication, while this game may kick-ass, it probably won't sell as much as it deserves to. Some people on neogaf are being dumb-asses and saying that THQ dropping it is a sign that it'll suck. I guess they never realized that THQ is on the verge of bankruptcy and that they can't afford to spend the millions it would cost to properly advertise this game, and that even then it might not pay off despite the game being good. See Vanquish to get a perfect example of what I mean. The game was excellent and got great reviews, but it never really sold all that well, especially compared to AAA TPS games like Gears of War and Uncharted. Just because THQ dropped it doesn't mean the game wasn't shaping up well. It just means that the game was proving too costly for them to continue producing when the pay-off wouldn't be enough since realistically, they knew the game probably wouldn't sell very well regardless of how good it was (its sad but its also very true).

So Tecmo is releasing the NES version of Ninja Gaiden 1 on the 3DS virtual console within the next few weeks. I have it on the Wii so I'm good, but for those who want an official portable version with a save stating feature (yeah for better check-pointing!) and have a 3DS should keep an eye out.

Other than the birds and the terrible checkpoints at times, it's one of the best games on the NES.

But I do wish they would port the Game Boy and Game Gear ones to the 3DS as well.

Just so long as it is a direct port of the NES version of the game and not the flawed SNES port, it makes for a pretty sweet deal.

Yeah, they only release the NES versions on the 3DS VC, they haven't added SNES games yet. I actually think this might be the first third party VC game.

Hey E-K... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIBw5M6f_YA)

Also, apparently this version of the game has full two-player co-op.

If they managed to fix Ninja Gaiden 3 that would be quite amazing.

Going by that trailer, I at least have to give Team Ninja credit for actually trying to make the best out of a bad game. The problem is that if the foundation is bad, then the best you can do is to upgrade it to something medicore (at best) or equally as shitty. Most of my problems with NG3, unfortunately, lie at its core, and that stuff unfortunately can't be changed no matter how much they pile onto it (they'd basically have to remake the whole game from scratch to fix it).

What this video shows me is that they ARE actually listening to some feedback now. So my best hope is that they will take what they learned about how NOT to make an NG game with NG3 and make a much better NG game with the next game (assuming that Razor's Edge sells just enough to give them a reason to make a sequel).

I don't really know what it is, but while I appreciate that they are changing the tone of the game to being more tounge-in-cheek rather than inappropriately stern and serious and only funny in all of the worst and most unintentional ways (like the original release of the game), the game still lacks a "soul" to me, if that makes any sense. In perspective, a game like NG2 had a lot of problems, but it still felt like there was a genuine soul to it, where you could feel that the people making the game really gave a shit and wanted to make a truly great action game (but unfortunately had to succumb to the limit of severe time constraints and trying to accomplish too much in too little time). With NG3, the game will always feel to me like a game that just does what it thinks everyone else wants to see and do in the game, rather than being what the developers themselves would really want to put into a game to make it great. That's the main difference between NG3 and Itagaki's NG games for me, personally.

To put it simply: I want an NG game that the developers themselves are actually proud of making. You can feel with this game that Team Ninja themselves know that its a piece of crap and are ashamed of it, so no matter what it'll be a crap game. With a game like NGB, you can tell that they really loved it, which is why its so damn good.

I still hope Ninja Gaiden 4 is a 2D sidescroller.  ;)

At this point, I highly doubt that the current Team Ninja could even make a good 2D side-scrolling action game. I'm willing to bet that rather than cribbing off popular movie games, they'll instead attempt to copy pretentious arthouse platformers like Braid or Limbo rather than trying to actually make a good game. As long as people like Hayashi are left in charge of Team Ninja, that's about all we can expect from future NG games made by them.

Honestly, I just want the next NG game to be made by a different development team entirely.

In the meanwhile, I'm growing ever more impatient for the TRUE Team Ninja (aka VGS) to release some new info about Devil's Third.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on September 14, 2012, 12:48:37 PMIn the meanwhile, I'm growing ever more impatient for the TRUE Team Ninja (aka VGS) to release some new info about Devil's Third.

After Bayonetta 2's reveal... I'm just spit-balling here but what if....

I think the internet would destroy itself to kill Nintendo.

LOL! :lol:

That'd certainly stick it to all those anti-Nintendo snobs out there. :P

That said, Devil's Third has been confirmed for a cross-platform release (including the Wii-U and the PC) for over a year, and I'm pretty sure that isn't going to change (assuming that the game actually DOES ever come out).

Inafune is making a Ninja Gaiden spin-off. (http://www.siliconera.com/2012/09/19/yaiba-ninja-gaiden-z-screenshots-look-stylish-and-bloody-all-at-once/)

QuoteLost Planet 3 developer, Spark Unlimited

Sigh.

Also, it's still not 2D enough.  :P

Hey, if Keiji Inafune is involved, that's enough to get me excited. Granted that....I don't now how much influence he has over the development of this game, but I'll gladly take Ryu slicing up zombies, whether it be in 2D or 3D.

I'm sure it'll be no Ninja Gaiden Black or Ninja Gaiden II (NES), but it'll probably be the best NG game we've had in years, and as a huge NG fan that's a big deal to me, especially after the travesty of NG3. Also, if you look closely in the trailer, I believe you can vaguely see in the footage that Ryu is wearing his classic blue ninja costume from the NES games! ;D

Also, the concept for this game is awesome. I always though it'd be cool to play a game in a franchise with an established hero where you play as an enemy of the hero. In this case you play as some guy named Yaiba who's out for revenge against Ryu, which completely makes sense because Ryu has killed a lot of rival ninjas. It'd be awesome if he turns out to be a fallen Black Spider ninja, which is from Ryu's rival clan.

OK, I just realized who Spark Unlimited are....and all of a sudden any hope I had for there being a good NG related game coming out anytime soon has once again vanished.

How did the series fall THIS fucking far as soon as Itagaki left?

Also, I do sincerely wish for a Ninja Gaiden game that would touch back to the series's NES routes. I mean, I'd LOVE a great new 3D NG game that can be as good or even possibly top Ninja Gaiden Black, but I'm pretty sure that such a feat is now impossible since nobody at Tecmo or Team Ninja seems to be interested in making a good 3D NG game that the fans want.

At least I'd love a great classic 2D NG game, and many fans have been begging for one, but Tecmo and Team Ninja apparently aren't aware that they exit. That, or they refuse to make an NG game that can't rip off of modern shooters and movie games....because when one things NG, they think of Call of Duty....yeah, that logic makes perfect sense. :thinkin:

Well, Inafune's studio is involved, and Spark Unlimited has only made shooters thus far, so I'd say it's safe to be cautiously optimistic for this game.

Hmm, zombies and mechs. Those things are too slow for super fast ninjas (or whatever the hell Yaiba Dabba Doo is). I also have no clue how Inafune would do on a hack n slash game.

Another thing that bothers me about the idea of this game when I think about it is the idea that the main enemy type (or possibly even the only enemy type) in this game will be zombies. That's fine for an ordinary hack n' slash game, but its not quite what I look for in a Ninja Gaiden game, whether its 2D or 3D. With 2D NG games, I would want a lot of emphasis on intense and challenging platforming combined with simple but fun slash-based action, and of course some classic ninja magic would always be welcome. A game full of zombies certainly doesn't fit the profile of making for a good 2D NG experience. Now the problem in the 3D realm of things is that it also doesn't fit in with what I have come to love a bout the 3D NG games, anyways (or at least the first 2). I love the idea of having really challenging enemies that really put your skills and wits to the test, as you have to constantly be reflexively alert to any quick and deadly attacks that they can throw at you while also having a mental strategy going into tough battles to ensure that you prevail. The whole idea of zombies pretty much rules out the idea of good AI altogether, as there is just supposed to be a lot of them and they usually amount to nothing more than fodder for your sword. That's the last thing I want to see from an NG game, especially a 3D one after the greatness of NGB and how it showed me the rewarding feeling of fighting tough enemy AI.

Now, to be fair we've only seen flashes of gameplay, so that's really nothing to base the entire game off of. For all I could know the zombies in this game could be completely different than the stereotypical zombies of most modern games, and they could be more along the lines of the undead ninjas from NG2 (which would be fucking awesome, just so long as they removed the projectile spam from them in this game). That said, I sincerely doubt it'll be like that. It just seems that no developer who makes or has made hack n' slash games seems to have anything close to that mentality save for Itagaki. Its really a shame, as  I've wanted something that can step up from what NGB offered me in the enemy AI department and yet no game (not even its own sequel) has come close to delivering on that, IMO.

They should have gotten WayForward, Treasure, Inticreates, or Dreamrift to make a new Ninja Gaiden.

Yeah, I know I'm a broken record at this point, but Tecmo is really missing out on money here.

Apparently Spark Unlimited approached them to make a Ninja Gaiden spin-off, based on what I've read.

I have to wonder if the good modern developers of retro-style games even give a shit about classic Ninja Gaiden. It sure doesn't seem that way. :cry:

Then again, Tecmo clearly gives even less of a shit about the series.

I dunno, it seems that Sega even made a classic style Shinobi game, and Nintendo (their new best buddies) seem to have no problem making 2D games and selling bunches of them... and Ninja Gaiden was huge back in the NES days, it just seems like an easy thing to do. I mean, NES NG3 didn't even really hurt the series much. It seems to me that getting the series back on track at this point is not gonna come through relying on terrible third party developers, but a reworking of the original formula with a modern twist to get people excited again.

But I'm heavily biased here, so I dunno if they've even thought of it and have discarded it already. then again, they haven't re-released NES Rygar yet so maybe they really don't know what's going on.

Still, a 2D classic-style Ninja Gaiden with a more modernized soundtrack like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbk9ONmUWZQ&feature=relmfu) would be killer.

QuoteNinja Gaiden 3: Razors Edge Cuts "Steel On Bone" QTEs, Goes Back To Series Roots

Quotethe enemies are more aggressive and they won't plead for their lives anymore. Director Fumihiko Yasuda confirmed that they removed cowering enemies from Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge. Enemies feel "smarter" since you can't repeat the same attack pattern and they will gang up on a player instead of waiting for you to kill them. The "steel & bone" quick time kills are gone. Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge has dismemberment instead.

QuoteWhile I breezed through the first wave of enemies, the third group finished Ayane off. One enemy who lost his leg crawled towards Ayane and self destructed taking off about 1/3 of Ayane's life.

QuoteNinja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge will have free downloadable content after the game launches. Hayashi didn't reveal the content, but gave hints saying there was "quite a bit" and "series fans are going to love it."

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/09/19/ninja-gaiden-3-razors-edge-cuts-steel-on-bone-qtes-goes-back-to-series-roots/

OK, So at least Team Ninja is listening. Fans are still suitably pissed at them for making all of these improvements exclusive to the WiiU version of the game. I myself don't mind it because its just business, but I just hope that this is a sign that Team Ninja actually has a hope of making a good NG game with the next installment.

As for NGZ, I just hope its not one of those cases where a veteran and top-line game creator (in this case Keiji Inafune) simply attaches his name to the title for marketing value by getting people hyped up for it, but actually has little to no involvement with the game itself. That would honestly piss me off more than anything else. If this is really a game that he's involved with making, then I hope that he really is actually involved with developing it every step of the way.

I was kind of bored so I decided to do a little bit of math. I went onto Meta Critic and looked at the cumulative average score (http://www.metacritic.com/company/team-ninja?filter-options=games&num_items=30&sort_options=date) for Team Ninja's library of games. As of right now with the current scores for the recently released DOA5 being included, the average score for Team Ninja games is 76%, though this may be subject to slight change as reviews are still coming out for DOA5 and its own average score can change a bit.

The point of doing this, though, was that I wanted to find the average for Team Ninja's review scores back when it was lead by Itagaki (by including games that were only released under Itagaki direction), and compare it to their review scores now as it is lead by Hayashi.

Calculating the average just from the games that had Itagaki's involvement (which does NOT include the Sigma games, in this case), I calculated an average of 82.27%, which would mean that the average score for Team Ninja games has dropped by approximately 8% since Itagaki's departure. If I were to actually include the Sigma games which were at least made while Itagaki was still head of the team, the average would have only been about half a percent higher, so they don't really make that big of a difference in this particular case. I also decided to just give them as a little boost to Hayashi since they are the highest rated games that he's directed (which is hilarious since they were both just revamps of the games that Itagaki had already directed on the XBOX and XBOX360, respectively).

Now, the interesting thing is only taking the average Team Ninja score for their games that were made without Itagaki's direction (in this case I am including the Sigma games). So, basically this is the average score for games under the Team Ninja lacking many of the key members that Itagaki took with him to VGS, and under the leadership of Yosuke Hayashi. I decided to do Hayashi another favor and only count NG3 once since it was just a multiplatform game (and not like a Sigma upgrade, so you can't argue that its 2 different versions of the game), and I only counted DOA5 once as well (and I took the higher score from the PS3 version of the game). The average in this case is 71.63%, More than 10% lower than the average score for the Itagaki-lead Team Ninja's library of games.

I only did this out of boredom and a bit of curiosity, and I'm not a fan of relying on reviews from critics or using MC, but in this case you can't deny that there is a strong consensus of how far Team Ninja has fallen in quality without Itagaki's guidance.

So....Team Ninja is REALLY going all-out on this game. Its clear that a lot of this stuff was already designed well before the initial release of the game on the XBOX360 and PS3, with Hayashi and co. obviously withholding it as Nintendo exclusive content, but after the deservedly terrible reception for the very lackluster NG3, they are going balls out trying to make this game worth something. I'm still extremely skeptical, but this article (http://www.2d-x.com/ninja-gaiden-3-razors-edge-for-wii-u-jusr-keeps-getting-better/) right here is ever so slightly starting to sway my interest back toward this new release, which is saying a lot after what a huge disappointment NG3 was to me. Here are the key points:

QuoteLet's move on to the content that the latest build of Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge presents, which I've compiled into a handy dandy list.

Perhaps the most significant change of all is the fact that Ryu is actually responsive in Razor's Edge. Ryu's recovery has been shortened greatly, so players can easily cancel into a dodge or block as the situation demands.

Enemies have been improved. They are more aggressive, and some have access to new moves. The basic terrorist grunts and alchemists are the most obvious examples.

Combat has been redesigned to have a more technical feel. Enemies have more stagger animations (including wall damage/stuns). Both playable characters now have a universal grab (the Guillotine throw).

Charge attacks are extremely fast. Ninja Gaiden 3 introduced a charge mechanic, whereby holding down the heavy attack resulted in a powerful combo extension. The length of time needed to charge this attack has been reduced dramatically.

There are six weapons available to Ryu in Razor's Edge right from the get-go. Ryu now has access to the claws, scythe, dual katanas, staff, and an as-of-yet unrevealed weapon, on top of the standard katana.

Karma has been redesigned to function as both the point/ranking system, as well as currency.

Collectible items have been reintroduced. The Golden Scarabs from the original Ninja Gaiden, and Crystal Skulls from Ninja Gaiden 2 are strewn about each stage, and can be collected for an instant Karma bonus.

Players can use this Karma currency to purchase upgrades for weapons and magic (Ninpo) as well as unique combat abilities and even in-game costumes.

The new "Cicada Surge" teleportation ability has been polished greatly since its reveal back during E3. It is an incredibly handy way to get out of overwhelming situations.

A new ability, called "Four Rings" has been introduced. It is a 360 shuriken attack that stuns enemies surrounding Ryu, and can be tacked on to combos on-the-fly, much like ordinary shuriken attacks.

Ultimate Techniques can be used even when Ryu/Ayane's weapons aren't glowing red, simply by holding down and charging a heavy attack (much like in Ninja Gaiden 2). Ultimate Techniques have two charge levels once again.

Ninpo is still earned through combat. However, you can keep your Ninpo charge between encounters now, allowing you to cast magic or save it as you see fit.

Bosses have life gauges now. You can see their health on the bottom of the screen.

Also, its worth pointing out that the writer of this article REALLY knows his shot about Ninja Gaiden. He wrote another article a few months back about why the original release of NG3 was a bad game and went into explicit detail on the game's core mechanics with a lot of technical jargon that only hardcore NG or hack n' slash fans would really get. So for someone like him to say that this game is a lot more technical and skill-based than the NG3 that we got means that Team Ninja must know what they're doing now to some degree. I hope that this is a positive sign for the future of this series, though I still don't think that they can really save this game THAT much given what crap it was to begin with. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, though.

Keep your eyes peeled for November 13th, since IGN will e revealing their first review of a Wii-U game- and that will be Razor's Edge.

Then we'll know for sure just what Team Ninja has learned.

Interesting, I heard elsewhere that Tecmo had pushed back the release date of NG3 to January of next year, but maybe they went back on that in order to get the game out for launch, after all.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see IGN's review on this full version of NG3 (I refuse to call this an enhanced version when this is minimally what the original product was clearly intended to be), considering their "previous review" on the initial NG3 release for the PS3/XBOX360.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 06, 2012, 07:59:49 PM
Then we'll know for sure just what Team Ninja has learned.

From IGN? lolno

I still can't get over the fact that IGN classifies Halo 4 as a revolutionary game for the basic reason that it has nice looking graphics and pretty CG cutscenes. Seriously, look at their review. They say that its innovative and somehow changes the scope of the FPS genre yet they give no reasons as to how it does that. Most of their review just gawks at how much they like the look and sound of the game and how the gameplay is basically like every other Halo game except more refined....which I guess somehow counts as innovation to them.

Quote from: Foggle on November 06, 2012, 08:24:24 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 06, 2012, 07:59:49 PM
Then we'll know for sure just what Team Ninja has learned.

From IGN? lolno

I'm not expecting a good rating or even a good review, just a more detailed account of what was changed/improved/removed.

Because IGN reviews are some of the worst.

Why they haven't become an industry joke like Destructoid and Kotaku by now is beyond me.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 06, 2012, 08:32:52 PM
I'm not expecting a good rating or even a good review, just a more detailed account of what was changed/improved/removed.

Ah, that makes more sense. I thought you'd lost it there for a second! :lol:

Seriously, after their God Hand and Double Dragon Neon reviews...

Not to mention stuff like this (http://ca.ign.com/articles/2009/11/17/group-session-new-super-mario-bros-wii).

Yet Halo 4 is revolutionary for having pretty graphics.

Quote from: http://www.siliconera.com/2012/11/12/team-ninja-on-developing-for-wii-u-bringing-qte-free-ninja-gaiden-3-to-ps3-360/The most significant changes in Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge are under the hood. Team Ninja cut out the Steel on Bone quick time events and revamped enemy artificial intelligence. They fight to the death in Razor's Edge instead of pleading for their lives. Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge also gives Ryu DLC weapons like the Falcon Talons when the game starts and adds Ayane as a playable character in certain missions. Fans have been critical of Ninja Gaiden 3′s QTE, so I asked Hayashi-san if they would re-release the game with hardcore features like enhanced AI and dismemberment or offer fans who bought the PS3 and Xbox 360 version a downloadable update.

"Right now we are just really focused on getting Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge out, but we do want as many people as possible to experience that challenge and that fun. So having that on other platforms we're working on that idea. We are looking at that, but right now, we are focused on Razor's Edge," Hayashi answered.

Nice to see Hayashi trying to atone for his sins.  ;D

I've decided that I'm just gonna wait to here what veteran fan of the series who happen to get a WiiU think of the game when they play it. Based on their opinions, its really the only way that I'll know for sure if Team Ninja is truly back on the right track with the NG series. I mean, the fact that they were dumb enough to completely betray their fan-base the moment Itagaki and other head members left just really damaged their current image to a point that will be hard for them to repair among many NG fans, including myself.

IGN review - 7.6 (http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/11/13/ninja-gaiden-3-razors-edge-review)

For reference they gave the original version a 3.

GamesRadar comparison video (http://youtu.be/vUC8Qe4FsL4)

So, basically Team Ninja used the XBOX360 and PS3 versions of the game as a glorified beta-test for the actual game they were releasing, which itself was a mediocre NG experience that didn't really strive to do anything more than the previous 2 games. Pretty much what I expected.

As per usual, I'm just more interested to see if Team Ninja can make up for NG3 by making NG4 a great game rather than just re-releasing NG3 and fixing up some of its numerous problems.

One thing that has always bugged me is how a lot of people just assume that people didn't like NG3 for taking out enemy dismemberment and toning down the difficulty (to which they use the argument that the game still has higher difficulty modes). Any fan of the 3D NG games could point out to you that fans of the series don't love it for the hyper-violence (I myself am indifferent to the violence for the most part, honestly). If you play the games, you'd know that dismemberment (at least in NG2, as it wasn't present in NG1 and I don't know how it works in this game) is an actual gameplay mechanic that isn't just for the visuals. It has its own strategic uses in taking down certain enemies and effects enemy AI, by making some enemy types for aggressive when they are dismembered while others become severely weakened and limited by it, yet hold some potentially more dangerous attacks if you are careless around them. To put it simply, the main thing that pissed fans off about NG3 was its utter lack of depth and soul. The game has no substance to it, on top of stripping away almost all of the content that previous games offered. Normal mode just rewarded players for mashing on buttons, while the harder difficulties completely missed the point of what fans liked about the challenge of the previous games. The challenge came from fighting tons of enemies in arena like environments and having to deal with tons of projectile spam (even more often than in NG2), which is NOT good challenge. Its just simply not fun and feels tedious. The previous games, mainly NGB/S, took the time and care, which most developers have given up on in the modern age of gaming, to really craft terrific higher difficulty modes that increased the level of difficulty without sacrificing the genuine fun of the game at its core. Stronger enemies were introduced in earlier levels in the game on harder difficulties and some completely new enemies appeared altogether, ensuring that you didn't know exactly what to expect around each corner. The game also took the time and care to change up the locations of where you find certain weapons and items, replaced the usual items you found in treasure chests with different ones (usually they would be inferior on harder difficulties, but sometimes they could throw you for a loop with even better items than what are usually there, or you could be surprised by a bunch of bats or ghost fish popping out of a chest that used to contain a healing item), ensuring that you couldn't just rely on memorization to know what you were going to get. I could list a plethora of other things that the previous games got right in the difficulty department, but suffice it to say that when I say Ninja Gaiden Black is my personal favorite game of all time, that's really taking Very Hard and Master Ninja modes into account as IMO those are the intended ways to play the game.

At any rate, I am genuinely glad to see that Team Ninja is at least moving away from all of the bull-crap they were trying to push in the original release of NG3, but when NG4 comes out, I want to see an NG game that really capitalizes on and pushes forward the series' strengths, rather than just try to be satisfactory by merely fulfilling the normal status quo.

It's still the weakest NG game, but at least with this they seemed to fix everything wrong with it short of level design and level progression. If they learned this much, hopefully they can apply it to a brand new game in the future as every single thing they changed "for the better" was everything they ended up going back on in this remake.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 15, 2012, 11:13:55 AM
It's still the weakest NG game, but at least with this they seemed to fix everything wrong with it short of level design and level progression. If they learned this much, hopefully they can apply it to a brand new game in the future as every single thing they changed "for the better" was everything they ended up going back on in this remake.

Actually, this version DOES have level progression (I'm assuming that you're referring to being able to level up your weapons). Pitifully enough, though, it still has less weapons than either of the first 2 games, and absolutely none of them are new.

I do have hope that Team Ninja can salvage this series and make it great again with future installments, but I hope that they don't rely so heavily on recycling material from past games. A lot of this extra content is STILL just re-rendered stuff that was already in previous games. I mean, I love NGB, but if I want to fight Alma or Doku, I'll play that game. I shouldn't have to be fighting those exact same bosses as extra content in this the 3rd game as well. Its funny that even 4 years after Itagaki's departure from Tecmo, Team Ninja is STILL cribbing heavily off of content from the NG games that he directed. :P

Status quo NG is still better than shit like DmC, at least. And we need more games like Ninja Gaiden anyway, even if they are merely "good", since that genre is painfully underrepresented.

I certainly agree to some extent, but as a fan of the series its understandable that I along with others would want this series to stand out as being truly great once again. Back when NGB came out, it really blew a lot of people away, especially since it was at a time when fair challenge in a game was considered a good thing, as reflected by the overwhelmingly positive reviews at the time from critics (its kind of hard to believe these days that a game like NGB could be so critically acclaimed, but that's back at a time when gaming journalism still made sense). Its one of those games that has that magical quality of smoothness to it that most other games can only strive for. The moment I first started playing the game, everything felt perfect, from the simple and sensible controls to Ryu's wide arsenal of moves and how he could use his acrobatics to interact with and traverse his environment. The enemy design was also great with smart enemies being featured for this type of game and with plenty of variety to go around in terms of weapon variety and different enemy types, ensuring that the game never felt monotonous. There was also a healthy amount of mini-puzzle solving elements thrown in with some more Zelda-esque style exploration (albeit on a suitably light scale as this was still mostly an action game). Something about the game's general chemistry just worked perfectly for it, or at least for me and many devoted fans of the title.

When I think about it, 3D NG was at its best when it wasn't just about combat. I mean, the combat was amazing and it was still the driving force of what made the gameplay so great, but the first game also had, IMO, brilliant level design and much more well thought-out boss fights. I feel like even with NG2, which I still loved, the series had sort of forgotten that it had more to offer than just stellar combat, and sadly with NG3 the 3D NG games are just associated by the masses as being glorified gore-fests that are supposed to be hard (except for NG3 which made it easy). As a testament to NGB's greatness, it had only a little bit of blood, no gore (no dismemberment aside from the occasional head being lopped off), and in general had a very tame level of violence, even for its time. Yet, its still by far the best game in the series (even if we're bringing the classic 2D NG games into the mix), and it still holds up for many as one of the greatest action/adventure games ever made, hack n' slash or otherwise. While I think that NG2 is a great (but flawed) game, its hardly the best in its class like NGB, and NG3 is just a sad former self of what the series was at its peak.

So, I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I want the series to hit a peak again. Fans have been waiting for a true sequel that capitalizes on all of what made NGB such a great and memorable game to play, and that doesn't just include the combat. Blood and gore is all fine and dandy, and I really like the dismemberment system as a gameplay mechanic, but I just want to see Team Ninja make an effort to really try and make the best NG game in the series, rather than just try to make one that does stuff that previous games have already accomplished in order to make a quick buck from the loyal fan-base. Doing the latter will make for a satisfactory experience, but not for a great one.

When I said "level progression" I was thinking more along the lines of story progression which effect events, encounters, and bosses, but I didn't mean the actual story (which is irrelevant, really) just how the game progresses through levels. I just don't know what the proper term for that is.  :sweat:

Also, I too would like the series to bring back more adventure elements that Black had. 2 was fun, but I would have preferred more things to do than combat.

Well, its worth noting that 2 was supposed to have more adventure elements and such but Team Ninja was focusing on perfecting the enhanced combat system first. The main problem with the game's development is that it had to be rushed out the door due to Itagaki's abrupt departure from Tecmo. In that regard, they had spent most of their time perfecting the new combat system (which is still to this day one of the best in the genre, IMO), but they clearly didn't get enough time to balance out the enemies and bosses and make more interesting level designs, hence we got a much more linear and far less polished NG experience, one which I have still learned to love and appreciate on its own merits, but one that also pales in comparison to its predecessor. To me NGB is still the gold standard for how to make a proper 3D NG game. Ninja Gaiden II on the NES is the gold standard for the classic games, IMO. :thumbup:

RUMOR: Team Ninja Dog is bringing the Razor's Edge version of Ninja Gaiden 3 to Xbox 360 and PS3... for full retail price!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501797

If that happens, then I'll essentially just get the game when it comes down to around $20 in price, which shouldn't take too long.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 15, 2012, 10:40:18 AM
GamesRadar comparison video (http://youtu.be/vUC8Qe4FsL4)

Annndddd that's like the 2nd footage of a Wii-U game I've ever seen. I love comparison videos.

So, Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z has been revealed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaPx9mDUBsM) as a next-gen console title. Its also apparently a shooter....:srs:

So Gamefly just shipped my copy of Razor's Edge today, so I should be getting it in a few days. I'lll be sure to tell you my thoughts on the game once I get it.

Speaking of Ninja Gaiden, have you tried the 2nd one yet? Its overall not as good a game as the first one, IMO (despite the improved combat, which IS saying a lot given how great it already was in the first game), but its still a worthy successor to it. I know that you don't have an XBOX360 but for what its worth while I do find Sigma 2 to be the overall inferior version of the game from a hardcore fan's standpoint (it is the better game, however, from a technical standpoint which is why it got better reception from critics), its not like Hayashi completely butchered the game, and the core of what makes it great is still mostly present, IMO. The lack of blood really isn't an issue, though fundamentally the way the game may feel can be quite different from the XBOX360 version, in which hacking off limbs happens at a less frequent rate than in the 360 version, which could be a good or bad thing depending on who you ask, since it is actually a game mechanic and not just used for flash effect.

My main gripe with the game is really more about how it handles its harder difficulties, which shouldn't be a problem. I criticized the original release of the game for its Master Ninja mode and how that relied a bit too heavily on some annoying enemy tactics that forced you to only follow one monotonous strategy in many situations in order to play it safe. Sigma tried to change things up with how it handled the difficulty to make it less frustrating but still just as challenging, and its solution was a radically different kind of difficulty that IMO is even worse than NG2's take on it. With Sigma, rather than worrying about stuff like projectile spam, you instead have to worry about 1-hit kills, which the original version of the game (to its credit) never resorted to. Sigma 2 does give you less enemies on screen at once for the most part, so it is doable, but from what I've played of it I just don't like the feeling of doing exceptionally good through a fight only to be completely screwed over by just one mistake (or sometimes you don't even make a mistake and get killed anyways because of occasionally bad hit detection).

Like I said, though, none of that really even matters if you don't play the harder difficulties of NG, anyways. My other gripe, though, is that Mentor mode, the most satisfyingly challenging yet mostly balanced mode from the original version of the game is made way too easy in Sigma 2, so you get the feeling that there was room for another difficulty in-between Mentor and Master Ninja in that game.

To Sigma 2's credit, though, it does offer up more content than the original game, and while it does sacrifice a lot of what made the challenge in the first game fun, it also rarely ever sinks to the lows of the most terrible points in that game, and generally removes all of the more frustrating elements that it had, the most notable of which being entirely replacing the end boss fight from Chapter 9, which I HATED in the original version of the game. Sure the new one is pretty generic and kind of bland, but I'll easily take it over the cheap, infuriating "pieces" of shit that we got for the end-stage boss fight of that chapter in the original version of the game.

Ninja Gaiden 1 is coming to the 3DS VC either this week or next and I'm contemplating it simply for the save state feature and portability. Save states are usually a good way for me to practice certain sequences over and over (and put checkpoints where the game SHOULD have them) and being able to play Ninja Gaiden on the go is a very tempting proposition.

Though I do wish Tecmo would release Ninja Gaiden Shadow.

Quote from: Ensatsu-kenSpeaking of Ninja Gaiden, have you tried the 2nd one yet?

No, not yet, though after reading your post, I'll try it out ASAP (Admittedly, that comparison video posted in this thread awhile back turned me off the Sigma version of II quite a bit). Honestly, I probably should've picked up Sigma II regardless since Sigma I's hard mode is kicking my ass. :sweat:

You know, for anyone playing the old-school NES Ninja Gaiden games today, it probably might not be apparent of what was so special about them, and admittedly a lot of their charm comes from them being great games for their time (and still good games today, but clearly not having aged well in some aspects, at least). That said, having at least tried several classic NES games over the years, I can really appreciate what Ninja Gaiden brought to the table. Most notably, I tried playing the original Castlevania on the NES recently, and while I enjoyed what I played of it (minus the Medusa Heads), I found that it was frustrating for some reasons that seem like they would have been simple to fix and would have made the game so much more enjoyable as a whole. My main complaint is not being able to control your jumps in mid-air. You'd really have to play it to understand, but that makes platforming in the game feel REALLY constrained. The thing is, this was kind of a norm for a lot of games at the time, and stuff like Mario were just the exception. Castlevania is also a much slower-paced platformer and does pull quite a bit more of the cheap difficulty tricks that old-school games were notorious for, even though you could still say that the game is mostly fair in terms of getting through stages without dying. The reason I mention this, though, is because Ninja Gaiden was compared a lot to Castlevania in its day, which seems strange at first but if you look at both games NG clearly took a lot of influence from the former. The whole HUD layout was ripped straight from Castlevania, including the boss health bar being present under your character's health bare, and having special items that are activated by pressing "up" and the attack button and having limited ammo for those items. Ninja Gaiden, however, is far more fun to play IMO, and that's thanks to much better controls. Ryu can change the direction of his jump in mid-air, and the game is faster-paced making Ryu's movements feel far more responsive than Simon Belmont's. The platforming itself also feels a bit more creative for the time, IMO, with Ryu having to overcome certain obstacles by utilizing his unique ninja skills such as sticking to walls and hanging off/shimmying along poles (which was an element more prominent in NG3 on the NES). I also like that all enemies aside from bosses died in just 1 hit, making for a much smoother and more consistent experience.

Now, that isn't meant to trash Castlevania or any other classic 2D side-scrollers of the time, but I really do appreciate how many improvements and refinements that classic Ninja Gaiden games brought to the table for the genre during that era of gaming. Of course, Ninja Gaiden still had some cheap moments and was guilty of also emulating some of the bad aspects of those games that it took clear influence from, such as being knocked way back every time you got hit and having a cheap enemy-type in the form of the birds, but it was still a much faster and more responsive game for its time, while still keeping a lot of fair challenge in the mix, and I really respect that element of the NG games.

If it means anything I'll definitely get Ninja Gaiden III when it comes out on the eshop VC.

With save states, the game would be far less frustrating since I would use them at the start of every level. (In other words, no more limited continue annoyances)

I mean there are very few games I would double dip for to have portable, but I think the 2D NG games would be some of them.

Just beat the first level of Razor's Edge. For reference, I decided to play the vanilla NG3 demo beforehand just to compare the two. That game was somehow worse than I remembered. Razor's Edge is a vast improvement, but that's really not saying much.

First off, the game still seems to have the same (godawful) story and cutscenes, fortunately it's easier to skip them. And right off the bat you notice the first gameplay improvement: soldiers no longer beg for their lives like pussies, and the segment where Ryu kills that defenseless soldier has been comlpletely removed. Enemies are also more aggressive and more NG-like, nothing like the first two games mind you, as you can still get by with mashing the Y button, but you'll actually have to be somewhat concious of when you strike (read:you actually have to use the block and dodge mechanics on a regular basis). Unfortunately, essence is still absent from the game, which makes certain bosses tougher than they really need to be, the Spider-Tank boss for example was excessively difficult because of this. You still defeat the boss with the same method, but it's much more aggressive with frequent damage-dealing missle attacks that take out a chunk of your (small) health, in a regular Ninja Gaiden game you'd get essence everytime you destroy one of its legs, but here the ONLY way to heal mid-combat is via Ninpo, this also makes charge attacks (which have been brought back) a liability during bosses as well. I was still able to defeat the boss by studying its attack pattern, but even that was more of a pain than it needed to be since the camera was a bit too close to the action (more on that in a bit). The healing thing was probably to balance out that you get fully healed after each combat section, but it's gonna be a love it or hate it thing.

Speaking of the camera, yeah that's a bit more irritating here than in Sigma. You can still kinda control it, but ony at preset angle's with the shoulder button. Sometimes the camera can be a bit too close to the action for comfort, which is a problem for when a lot of shit happens at once like the afformented Spider-Tank fight, the Regent fight also suffered a bit from this, but not enough to take away the fun challenge of the boss (I died a lot against that guy). Ninpo, while vastly improved, feels rather lazy due to them just reusing ones from the previous games. I actually kind of liked the concept of a Ninpo in the form of a Fire Dragon in the original NG3, I think they should've just taken that basic concept, but treat it the same way Ninpo is normally treated, the other elements would get their own animal's too (Water could be a Shark, Wind can be a Bird, Thunder a Tiger, Ice a Wolf, etc.)  that all do their own unique thing, that would've made Ninpo a bit more unique in this game, and just as strategic yet optional as it was in previous games.

On the plus side, attacks, abilites, ninpo, etc. are now purchased and upgraded (via Karma). You can now upgrade them whenever you want, so long as you're not in the middle of combat. As expected, weapons also return (and are similarly upgradeable), I got the Talon's early on (the Falcon give them to you). Segments where you're forced to walk slowly as you chat with that one CO chick ala No More Heroes are completely removed, Steel-on-bone is much less frequent, and auto-UT's are no longer auto.

As far as first impressions go, this is at least a somewhat decent Hack'n Slash. Not quite as refined as 1/Black/Sigma, and far inferior to Metal Gear Rising. I'd say it's about on par with DmC in terms of overall fun.

Thanks for your input on the game. It sounds like what I expected. Despite Team Ninja realizing their mistakes and doing everything in their power to make this game into a proper NG sequel, it just had such a lackluster core that the best they could really do was patch the game up instead of fixing it properly. Even if they improve the enemies, challenge, and content of the game, it doesn't change the extremely bland levels that are nothing more than just arenas linked by hallways and the occasional scripted set-piece moments where all you're really doing is tediously fighting the same waves of enemies over and over again or pulling the trigger buttons to Kunai climb over and over again. I am however glad to here that needlessly slowing Ryu down during those radio segments where he's chatting with Mizuki or Ishigami are completely removed. Its stupid that Ryu would need to slow his ass down just to talk. Team Ninja was literally just ripping that element straight from most modern TPS games.

One question I do have for you that you didn't mention, though, is how is the slowdown in this game? It was already pretty atrocious in NG3, but I've heard some people say that its even worse in this game, whereas others say that its basically the same as before, and only a few people have said that its improved (but even in that case they note that its only a slight improvement). How much slowdown did you encounter while playing this game?

Honestly, though, I really hope that Team Ninja goes back and re-evaluates just why the hell Ninja Gaiden 1/Black/Sigma was such a huge success in the first place. I mean, its the highest rated game that they've EVER made for crying out loud, and if you go onto Game Rankings its aggregate review scores rank it as one of the top 50 greatest games of all time. Yet for whatever reason, Team Ninja seems to be trying everything in their power to push the series away from that direction and bog it down with baffling design choices which just make no sense.

I think I do recall Hayashi once saying that they make games with a Japanese mentality for Japanese gamers, but if that's the case then there is the clear-cut problem. Despite being a Japanese developer, Team Ninja's games have NEVER been successful in Japan, except for maybe the first couple of DOA games that were released in arcades at the time. A majority of the revenue for their games have come from North America, as there is a lot of fan support for their games from the west. Sometimes you just have to realize how your core fan-base is and market to them. This was true of series like Resident Evil and DMC, for example, which were always far more popular in the west than they were in Japan (though "Biohazard" is still fairly popular in Japan from what I can understand). Itagaki knew this and thus catered to the preferences of his core audience with his games. Hayashi seems to be obnoxiously snubbing this idea and running the NG series into the ground with his logic.

Sounds like a good $20 buy, like DmC. :)

Also, I'm pretty sure Hayashi said that Team Ninja Dog was trying to appeal more to westerners with NG3, and that's why it was bad. (What a great excuse, amirite?)

Quote from: Ensatsu-kenor pulling the trigger buttons to Kunai climb over and over again.

That's something I forgot to mention actually. Kunai climbing seems to be reduced, it's still there, but just in smaller doses.

QuoteOne question I do have for you that you didn't mention, though, is how is the slowdown in this game? It was already pretty atrocious in NG3, but I've heard some people say that its even worse in this game, whereas others say that its basically the same as before, and only a few people have said that its improved (but even in that case they note that its only a slight improvement). How much slowdown did you encounter while playing this game?

That's another thing I forgot to mention. There is a bit of slow down. I don't remember when they happened, but it's there, and it's very annoying.

I find it absolutely hilarious that Ninja Gaiden Black on the original XBOX had no slow-down problems whatsoever. Then we got the Sigma version of the game, and while I encountered no slowdown in the parts of it that I played, myself, I've heard some people say its there, but even the ones that do say its there say that its pretty rare so its hardly worth nothing, really. Then we got NG2 and that game was clearly rushed and had some significant slowdown, but it never happened that frequently and it really only occurred at the parts of the game where too many enemies appeared on screen at once, but most of that stuff was patched so now the game hardly has any slowdown issues. Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 had no slowdown either but it significantly reduced the enemy count so that kind of explains why. I'd actually be fine with this if the enemies were as agile as they were in NGB/S, but they are only moderately tweaked to be a bit tougher than their counterparts from the original version of the game.

After all of this, we got NG3, a game that's coming out close to the end of this generation's life-cycle, so you know that the developers have had plenty of experience working on these consoles by now and have no excuses for bugs and whatnot. Yet this NG3 had the most slowdown of any NG game to date, and it didn't have anymore enemies on screen at one time than NG2 typically had and could handle, and on top of that it didn't even have dismemberment animations and graphics to account for, but instead just had simple blood effects, and the environments were extremely plain and barren, so its not like there were a lot of effects pulled off there that could cause the game to slowdown, yet for some reason the game contained significant slowdown. Well, now we're finally at the enhanced version of NG3 with Razor's Edge, and basically STILL nothing has been done to fix the slowdown. This is pretty damn pathetic of Team Ninja by this point. Slowdown in an NG game is no minor gripe. The game's are supposed to be highly technical, and in this more challenging version of NG3, you'd expect them to make sure that the game controlled smoothly and flowed smoothly at a consistent frame-rate, yet they've taken no such measures, making a lot of the hard parts in this game feel more cheap and unfair than they are genuinely challenging. Team Ninja still doesn't get it. People didn't like the past NG games JUST because they were hard, but because they gave you the all the tools and tight and polished controls that you needed to get the job done (well, mostly with NG2, as NGB was the only really perfectly balanced game in the series). Those games were challenging in a fun way because you always felt like you were in complete control of Ryu and that he was responsive to your every command, so if you died it was your own fault a majority of the time. In NG3, I get the feeling that quite a lot of potential deaths could come about from circumstances that are completely out of your control, and having read comments by fans who have been playing through the game on harder difficulty settings, that definitely seems to be the case. This doesn't really give me a lot of faith in the current Team Ninja.

I've never encountered slowdown in NGS either. Maybe you have to install it to the hard drive or something.

Mizuki:"I keep forgetting you're a Ninja."

HE'S WEARING A NINJA OUTFIT, HOW COULD YOU FORGET THAT HE'S A NINJA YOU DUMBFUCK?!

And they kept in those stupid bazooka launcher mooks in unreachable places that can only be taken out with the bow. WTF Team Ninja? And would it have killed them to drop it with those stupid waves of enemes? It's bad enough the lack of essence makes things harder than they really should be. These battles take WAY too long to finish.

You know something else I appreciated about NG2? In addition to making battles really fast-paced, preventing them from ever dragging out for too long (including boss battles, which is one thing that I really appreciate), there were many instances in the game where if you didn't feel like fighting a particular wave of enemies as you were making your way to your next destination....you didn't really have to. A lot of fights in the previous NG games could be skipped, much like how you could skip most enemies in the NES NG games. Of course in order to prevent you from constantly skipping enemies, the game made it so that essence that you collect from dead enemies is your main form of currency, which you need to upgrade your weapons and buy some health for tougher boss battles which you can't skip. So it was still in your best interest to fight most of the time, but it was a nice touch that the first 2 games never succumbed to that syndrome of locking you in a room every time a new wave of enemies appeared, which is something that made it stand out from its competition like DMC and Bayonetta.

Got to the first Ayane mission in Razor's Edge, just in the nick of time too. I was about ready to give up hope on this game.

Perhaps unsuprisingly, her first level is much better and more fun to play than Ryu's levels. The waves of enemies aren't as obnoxiously large, the one kunai climbing segment lasts approximately less than 3 seconds, and the cutscenes and dialogue are campy and tounge-in-cheek (I actually gave a light chuckle at some of Ayane and Irene's banter). Outside the boss battle, it didn't feel anywhere near as hard as Sigma did, it's still tough fortunately, especially newcomers (Ayane's first boss will destroy them). For the boss battle you have to fight three sword-wielding Alchemists at once, and they're all similar to Regent. This kind of challenge is something I would've expected from the higher difficulties, so I had a very hard time until I found using UT and Ninpo until two of them were did so I could focus on the last when worked pretty well as a strategy. Hooray for cheap tactics!

Well, that's at least a tiny bit reassuring that Team Ninja can still make some genuinely fun gameplay. That said, I still don't think that they "get" what part of the difficulty of previous NG games that people actually liked. They were challenging, sure, but the fun came from finding ways to overcome each new challenging situation. In Ninja Gaiden Black, there isn't a single fight in the game that only has just one single strategy or tactic behind beating it. Hell, even Ghost Fish can be dispatched efficiently in a number of ways. Ninja Gaiden II was pretty good about the enemies for the most part, but it had some cheap projectile spam in parts and the boss fights felt extremely limiting in how you could approach them, which was a serious step down from the first game. With NG3, they went even further in that direction, indicating that Team Ninja really doesn't get the while people love a good challenge, that challenge still has to be fun.

Yeah, even in that Ayane level I felt the games difficulty lacked a little something that NGB/S had, and I think you described that something well. Stuff like the projectile spam is really keeping this game down.

So I got Ninja Gaiden on the VC.

Yeah, it was worth it for save stating. That way I can practice bosses or sequences as much as I want, but I still don't use it mid-level. Though I was tempted to when I got to the part before the boss in 3-2... man, that last jump.

Then I got to 4-1 and that badly placed soldier crouched before the jump. I have no shuriken, so I have no way to reliably hit him. This game can be a real shame at times, because outside of cheap enemy placement (the birds are coming up!) the level design is pretty great and the story is fun, too. I'm glad I got it for portable play.

The first Ninja Gaiden is a classic. It has some undeniably cheap enemy placement and some really frustrating jumps, but no one can deny that at least 95% of the game comes down to the player's own skill and timing.

I do feel that Ninja Gaiden II managed to balance out things the most, though even it has its fair share of cheap enemy placement.

So, Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 Plus (Yeah, its a mouthful, I know) is releasing on the PSV next month. Apparently it has some additional content not in the console version while retaining all of the content that Sigma 2 already had, with the exception that it restores the blood from the original version of NG2....and that's about it. Its really not much news, but I felt like mentioning it anyways since its the most interesting (read: only) thing happening with the Ninja Gaiden series right now.

Man, it really sucks when one of your favorite series is down in the dirt like this to the point that the only thing that I can think to bring up about it is a port of the console version of the game to an already near dead handheld system. Oh well, it'll still probably be the 2nd best game that the Vita has to offer by default, next to Ninja Gaiden Sigma, if only because nothing else on that system interests me in the slightest. You'd think Sony would have gone out of their way to support it with software after hyping up so much at E3 a couple of years ago, and yet its already on death's row. Well, that's Sony for you, I suppose.

Can't wait for Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge Sigma Plus next year!

Since we haven't heard anything about Devil's Third's production in ages, I'm just going to assume that the whole project has fallen through and that the game is officially dead, and Itagaki just doesn't want to admit it yet. In that case, I think that Tecmo should immediately reach out to him, apologize to him whether they were right or wrong just so that guy can live with his ego, and get him to agree to make a new Ninja Gaiden game. That's the only way I could see this series redeeming itself....and its never going to happen.

It really sucks that Itagaki had to meet with so much bad luck in the development of Devil's Third. To be fair, it was partly his own fault for signing on with THQ (well, it'd be a joint fault of both him and Kanematsu as well, with the latter being the CEO of the company). He should have probably done more research and predicted that THQ might go under before the development of his game was complete. That said, you can't really blame anyone for the company that developed the engine, which he was originally going to use for the game, going under. That was unpredictable and you can't really expect anyone to have reasonable seen it coming. After that, it was reported that Itagaki, while still working closely with THQ, ended up in an agreement with Vigil Games to use their Darksiders engine to develop his game. And then THQ gave the rights for Devil's Third back to Valhalla Games Studios and parted ways with the developer. Then THQ went bankrupt, and Vigil Games is the ONLY company that didn't get bought out by another publisher. And....they pretty much have gone under (or inevitably will go under if they haven't already) if I'm not mistaken, and being that VGS was using their engine to develop DT....yeah, that game's pretty much kaput, now.

I'm pretty sure THQ would have been just fine if not for uDraw, which didn't even come out until after Itagaki signed a publishing deal with them. Hardly his fault, if that's the case.

Its just such a shame. You've got the lead developer behind the old DOA and 3D NG games. He made Dead or Alive 2 which, while not a hardcore tournament fighter, was a really fun and highly praised fighting game for its time, bringing a lot of inventive ideas to the table with its really interesting use of environments, and it backed up its graphcial prowess with really fluid animations and tight controls, making for some exhilarating combat. The other DOA games Itagaki made weren't as great as this, but they were certainly solid. Then he made Ninja Gaiden Black, which was hailed as one of the greatest action games of all time, even in the presence of high competition such as the equally acclaimed Devil May Cry to stand against. It was an amazing game that was made even better through the "director's cut" version of sorts in Ninja Gaiden Black. After that he made Ninja Gaiden II, and while  the game got screwed due to having its production severely rushed because of Itagaki having to leave the company, it still managed to be a truly great game (if you could look past its flaws), and one of the best offerings in the genre for this generation. Its nowhere near as good as something as polished and fine-tuned as Bayonetta, but it still stands out for its unique approach to combat and having some of the most satisfying melee action of the genre, even to this date.

All this amounts to a guy who has talent. If NG2 is the type of game that he could make under the worst possible conditions, you'd have to wonder what he and his team could come up with if given free reign and enough time to make the game that they wanted to. The guy clearly has talent as a developer, and always brings something unique to this games that aren't so apparently obvious on the outset, but the brilliance really hits you when you actually sit down to play the games that he makes. Now, as for Devil's Third, it felt like he was going in the right direction with it. The game had a lot to do with military warfare given Itagaki's interest in the subject-material. However, he was clearly putting his own signature over-the-top spin on the genre, putting an equally heavy emphasis on melee combat, and even went so far as to stress that unlike Call of Duty games (which he admitted to liking), his game would not rely on scripted events and would be more about giving you the freedom to play through the game the way that you wanted to. That's something I've really been wanting more of from the genre. At any rate, all this sounded great on paper....and by the looks of it, I assume that it'll only ever stay on paper. The game has been in development for way too long and undergone so many problems that I don't even know if VGS can afford to finish it. Even if they can, all of the damage it has gone through in development hell will probably be clear as day, and the game will probably be a disaster if its ever released if only because there's no way that Itagaki and his team could work out all of the technical problems that it would have after so many abrupt changes in such a short period of time, and they couldn't afford to delay the production of this game for a few more years to make it all work out fine. So, in the end, the game will either come out or be a disaster, or Itagaki and company will have to abandon the project entirely and come up with something new, which will probably have to be a smaller-budget game that's more fit for download than the full-blown retail AAA kind of title that he was going for. In some ways, it might not be such a bad thing if he and his team are forced to make lower budget games and use more creativity to make them stand out, but its really unfortunate that his project will likely never see the light of day, or completely bomb even if it does get to that point, now.

I still don't think Devil's Third is dead. If a publisher doesn't pick it up soon, maybe they'll look to Kickstarter or something to crowd-source a digital release? Also, I doubt it'll be a disaster if released, even with the development hell it's been through.

Quote from: Foggle on February 10, 2013, 10:31:38 PM
I still don't think Devil's Third is dead. If a publisher doesn't pick it up soon, maybe they'll look to Kickstarter or something to crowd-source a digital release? Also, I doubt it'll be a disaster if released, even with the development hell it's been through.

Well, it was mainly the part about the game having to completely switch to a new engine when it was already so far along in production that made me think that a lot of technical problems could arise in the process. To be honest, I know next to nothing about the technical aspects of how these games are made, so maybe my worry is just me being completely misinformed and naive in the workings of the process of game development. That said, it sounds like that was a major blow that really held back the development of this game and even may have set it back by quite a bit. But I suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens as things unfold later on this year.

As for VGS, though, last I heard they partnered up with the Korean PC developer Doobic in order to finish the production of their game, and Doobic was even going to work on the PC port of Devil's Third. That said, nothing else has been announced since then, so my best hope is that Itagaki and company are just really hard at work developing the game as quickly but efficiently as possible. I really don't have high hopes for the game anymore, but if the game really does end up getting released and at least manages to turn out to be good from a critical standpoint, then I'd have to give huge props to Itagaki and VGS for being able to salvage good material out of a series of disaster announcements like that.

Hopefully this will make you feel a little better.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fniezgrani.pl%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F09%2FZrzut-ekranu-2010-09-18-godz.-10.54.02.jpg&hash=eddd8afb644de4c96f43b3feec336a5e0c0e46e1)

That picture is old and only reminds me of a dream team that will never come to be. You suck at cheering people up, Foggle. :imnothappy:

So, this is actually kind of old news, but Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge has is coming to the XBOX360 and PS3 next month. This is probably when I'll finally buckle down and get the game since my inner Ninja Gaiden-fan has to be able to say that I at least completed the game once.

Don't get me wrong, I still fully expect it to be garbage, but I just can't resist the urge to still play through the full thing. It just doesn't feel right if I completely ignore the game, being what a huge NG fan I am, even if it fully deserves to be ignored. Its sort of like how I absolutely HAD to play through DMC2 and get it over with before moving onto 3, just so I could say that I honestly gave the game a try, even though I knew full well going into it that I would hate it.

Nintendo really should have tried to save the game if it was that far along like they did with Bayonetta 2. Because I'm not really sure who else would publish it without sending it out to die.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on March 01, 2013, 06:03:36 PM
Nintendo really should have tried to save the game if it was that far along like they did with Bayonetta 2. Because I'm not really sure who else would publish it without sending it out to die.

I bet Devolver Digital would do it if they could. Though it'd most likely only ever see a PC release due to how big Devil's Third probably is.

Its a real shame, because in Itagaki's last interview (which was over 6 months ago), he claimed that when THQ gave the rights to Devil's Third back to VGS, the game was already 70% done. It was at least close to complete enough for THQ to attempt shopping it around to other publishers, but nobody would bite given the track record of how poorly most Japanese developed action games sell these days (with only a few exceptions being present, of course).

While I think the game would be great, it sort of does make sense that it wouldn't perform that well. Even Itagaki's best action game, NGB, didn't do THAT well. It sold less than a million copies on its own, and only managed to make 1.5 million copies when its sales figures were COMBINED with NGB's (meaning that both releases of the game sold under a million copies). Ninja Gaiden Sigma's sales were even worse, as they barely managed to scrape half a million sales. Mind you, these aren't bad sales by the standards of an average action game, but given the huge critical acclaim that the first Ninja Gaiden got, those sales figures were surprisingly low compared to any of its competitors, like DMC and God of War.

Publishers probably figure that whether Devil's Third was any good or not, it still probably wouldn't sell well, and while that really sucks, its probably true. I mean, even Vanquish didn't sell all that well despite rave reviews and a dedicated fan-base for Platinum Games. I guess more people would rather play a highly scripted and completely "safe" TPS game than something that tries to be a bit different in favor of something new and exciting. :-\

So, the news is that apparently Team Ninja can't even get a freaking port right anymore. Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 Plus released on the PSV a couple of weeks ago, and its marred with all sorts of technical issues that weren't present in the port of the first game. For one thing, the game has slow-down....and that's on top of it already being cut down to run at 30 FPS.

Just in case there are any hater of Itagaki who thought to themselves that Team Ninja would be fine without him and his head members which he took with him, just take a moment to consider that Team Ninja's ONLY successful games over the past few years since his departure are ports of games that HE lead the development of, and with the latest port, they can't even get that right anymore. Truly this series is doomed. I anticipate that we'll still get sequels because this is basically the highest selling series that KoeiTecmo has at its disposal aside from Dynasty Warriors and Dead or Alive. And by highest selling, I mean that it can't even break past a million copies like the previous games did. So we're basically going to get half-assed sequels that only a small number of fanboys, who can't admit that this series has gone to shit, will ever play. And thus this series will die a slow painful death.

Honestly, I'd rather just have the series die with NG3 if that's the case. At least its only one incredibly shitty game to hamper its name, as opposed to like a series of shit that follows.

So, I just played through the Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge demo. Here are my thoughts:

Basically, the game is way more polished and challenging than the original release of the game....but its all for naught, because it still sucks. To be more specific, yes the game is filled with more content than the original game, but it all feels like shallow add-ons with not much thought put behind how these elements could better be incorporated into the game. I can use any of 6 different weapons for Ryu, but unlike NGB or NG2, I really can't find any incentive to use one over the other. The game just seems to reward button-mashing in terms of actual combat inputs. The challenge comes more from putting up with bull-shit, and in that regard, its difficult, but not in a way that's fun. Yeah, NG2 had those damned rocket launcher enemies as well, but in that game you could cleverly use your enviroment to your advantage and lure enemies to places that they couldn't fire at you, or prioritize them and take them out first. In NG3RE, you have to constantly deal with these ass-holes in places that you can't reach while fighting enemies on the ground and constantly having to avoid rockets from off-camera. You could try shooting the rocket launcher enemies and killing them off first, but its nearly impossible to get a chance to hit them when you have too many enemies on the ground attacking you, and even if you do manage to kill one of them, another one will be ready to re-spawn in his place. Its just tedious difficulty rather than something that's fun. The melee combat challenge just comes from knowing when to block and dodge, which is all fine and dandy, except for the fact that the controls are CLEARLY far less responsive than they were in the first 2 games. I don't know how Team Ninja actually managed to fuck up something that was as close to perfect as possible in the first 2 games, but they did. The timing for chaining combos and linking them into evasion (in this game you slide instead of roll or dash), is totally off. That means the best tactic ends up being that I just have to run to one corner of the room, charge up a ultimate technique, and unleash on the dumb-ass AI when they get close enough to me. Its monotonous and boring, and really makes the combat feel extremely shallow.

I also played the Ayane chapter in the demo. For what its worth, she is far more quick and fun to play as than this game's version of Ryu, but her combat unfortunately succumbs to the same issues as Ryu's gameplay, so its still not very fun to play as her. It was after having played through her chapter that I realized that, despite how much Team Ninja has added to the game, it still feels so fundamentally mediocre, and in some cases downright bad. It just proves that there really was MUCH more to the first 2 NG games besides cool looking action and violence. Those games were so fine-tuned to offer the most precise combat possible, and they had some of the most fluid and responsive controls in the genre. They also took better care to make for more interesting level design (even NG2's linear levels were still better designed than the glorified combat arenas linked by hallways approach that NG3 goes for). They also had much better enemy AI, where in NGB your enemies blocked and dodged as much as you would, and they wouldn't stupidly let you use obvious tactics like charging up a UT at free-will (they could easily interrupt that before you could pull it off). In NG2, the individual enemies weren't as smart, but instead they worked better as a team or unit, with some enemies trying to surround you, while others stayed back and fired any ranged attacks that they had at you from a distance, forcing you to get to strategically better ground to carry on attacking them, or prioritize which enemies to take out first.

Ninja Gaiden 3's enemies offer up none of these complex roles, and they just feel like fodder to kill over and over again. Its just fighting wave after wave of enemy, with the challenge coming from endurance and putting up with bull-shit as opposed to being reflexively adept at combat and strategically using your weapons and various attacks, while properly conserving healing items and Ninpo. So, its safe to say that after having played NG3RE's demo, that the game is just a failed project, plain and simple. Its not incomplete, its just badly designed. Team Ninja really has to start from scratch and re-assess what makes a Ninja Gaiden game good if they ever plan to continue this series, because if they think that just copying NG3's formula and adding in a lot of other features is going to be good enough from now on, then this series will be dead before long.

So, as you would expect, early previews of Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z aren't very favorable, right now. The comic-book art-style is apparently the only thing the game has going for it. Keiji Inafune himself has stated that he does not consider the combat to be very important, and apparently the animations in the game look uneven and stiff. That said, the game is still early in development, but I'm still already expecting a disaster just so that I won't be monumentally disappointed again.

You guys have absolutely no idea how badly it hurts to be a Ninja Gaiden fan, right now. :imnothappy:

OK, this bit from this interview (http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/27/4151090/yaiba-ninja-gaiden-z-team-ninja-preview-gdc) made me chuckle:

Quote"Back in the day when I was creating Onimusha, I was friends with [former Team Ninja head Tomonobu] Itagaki-san," Inafune said. "He complimented me by saying he really liked Onimusha, but he also said that 'I'm creating this new title that's better than yours.' He was talking about the Ninja Gaiden reboot. I played it and thought it was good but I still feel competitive [about it]."

That's Itagaki for you. He loves to rub his work in rival developers' faces. I could imagine it going something like:

Inafune: So, Itagaki, what do you think of my new hack n' slash game, Onimusha?

Itagaki: Oni-whatever? Yeah, its kind of cool, I guess, but my new Ninja Gaiden game will absolutely destroy it. Hahahaha!

Team Ninja is now two separate teams. I wonder why? Maybe they're planning on having Hayashi make a NG game and then having the second team Razor's Edge it upon completion.

Its sad to see that the Ninja Gaiden fan-base has lowered their standards so much, and many consider Razor's Edge to be a good game. Its improved from NG3 vanilla for sure, but its still complete ass compared to what we previously got, and I can't stand fans just accepting some shit like this as being "good enough" when its clearly just a sub-par hack n' slash game. The demo showed me that just adding content isn't enough to make a good NG game, The controls feel WAY less responsive than Ninja Gaiden Black ad Ninja Gaiden II, and the difficulty feels cheap more than ever in this game compared to previous games. Even the rocket launcher enemies in NG2 weren't as ridiculous as they were in this game, and at least in that game you could actually find them in places that you could physically reach (meaning that you could take them out with melee attacks), whereas in this game you are only limited to ranged attacks to take them out, which is really frustrating given the finicky auto-aim that this game has to offer. At best this is a below average hack n' slash game, and as a huge NG fan myself, I just cannot except this as being good design, in any form. I do hope that the next proper NG game (NGZ doesn't count) turns out to be a true return to form, but until then, I'm not going to lie to myself and say that any form of NG3 is the least bit satisfying, because it really isn't. Its still pretty much the DMC2 of the NG series, even with the added content.

I tried playing the Razor's Edge demo. It made a good first impression; it's fast as hell, and Normal mode is pretty tough. But it still seemed offensively mediocre overall.

Good fucking lord is it boring. The levels feel like brief hallways connecting to glorified arenas. I swear, half of Ayane's demo stage takes place in the EXACT same circular area. You get one wave of at least 20 enemies, then another wave of 10 more who take extra hits to kill, then a boss fight against three enemies who can kill you pretty fast, and if you die on the boss fight, you have to restart from the second wave. Every major encounter is at least five minutes long for no goddamn reason, and the enemies don't drop health pickups at all - meaning that the game is only hard because the checkpoint system is, quite frankly, stupid. And then of course there are those goddamn rocket launcher ninjas. They were somewhat annoying in the previous games, but easily killable/avoidable if you knew what you were doing. Razor's Edge just spams them at you, and usually puts them on high ledges so you have to take the time to use the bow while each arena spawns 50,000 enemies and you get killed by some dude with no legs crawling around with a grenade because taking <2 seconds to auto aim and fire your bow at someone means certain death. Also, it felt like I had less moves at my disposal than in NG2. In fact, I actually did better at the game when I randomly mashed the buttons than when I tried to play strategically like in the other games.

Precisely how I felt after playing the demo. It's clear proof that there was much more to Itagaki's NG than just simple gore and violence. This and future NG games can try and throw as much of that in as they want to try and please the fans, but there's really just no substitute for a creative mind and actual good game design. Unfortunately, the NG franchise is now in the hands of complete amateurs.

Yeah, I read your impressions after I posted mine and laughed at how similar ours were. Team Ninja Dog has truly ruined NG. :(

The humor in Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z is the least Ninja Gaiden thing I've ever seen....yet shamefully I have to admit that I chuckled at how intentionally ludicrous it was. Actually, the line "Honor and death go together like hot sauce and my balls" is so godawful that I should hate the writer but I hate myself more for actually laughing at it. Perhaps its just the fact that Ninja Gaiden has always kind of been such a bland Universe on a character-basis that its automatically kind of funny to stick a guy with ANY personality at all into that very Universe. On the downside, the few bits of gameplay I saw look like shit, but to be fair the series already hit its low point with NG3, so it can't really phase me if this game sucks as well.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 11, 2013, 11:47:21 PM"Honor and death go together like hot sauce and my balls"

:jawdrop:

Well, at the very least it'd be interesting to see how the stoic and completely unemotional and indifferent Ryu Hayabusa would react to someone like Yaiba. Hell, Ryu would just look at him indifferently for a second and then cut him in half like every other enemy he has killed....oh wait, he does that in the trailer. :happytime:

IT'S NOT DEAD!!!! (http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/12/27/itagaki-confirms-devils-third-release-for-2014-the-game-is-80-complete-looks-finished/) :joy:

Please don't let the game suck after all of this time. And I'm praying that it's still going to be released on the last-gen consoles as originally planned.

Meanwhile NGZ still looks like shit. Shame on you, Team Ninja.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 27, 2013, 10:43:14 PM
IT'S NOT DEAD!!!! (http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/12/27/itagaki-confirms-devils-third-release-for-2014-the-game-is-80-complete-looks-finished/) :joy:

Hooray!! :joy: I still remember how awesome that trailer looked. I guess this means they secured a publisher?

Even if it does come out for current gen consoles, it'll probably still be on Xbox 360 and PS3 as well.

I remember hearing Itagaki talk about the gameplay before. It seems like it'll be more of a multiplayer focused game, but if it's by Itagaki then I'm certainly willing to give it a try, especially since it'll have melee combat just as much as shooting.

I do think that this game will end up being smaller scale than Itagaki wanted, though. It's now an independent game, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but without a big budget backing him, he undeniably would've had to cut some things that he originally wanted to do.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 29, 2013, 10:24:59 AM
I remember hearing Itagaki talk about the gameplay before. It seems like it'll be more of a multiplayer focused game, but if it's by Itagaki then I'm certainly willing to give it a try, especially since it'll have melee combat just as much as shooting.

Hopefully that means cooperative rather than competitive. Since it no longer has a big publisher backing it, DT will probably go the way of Anarchy Reigns if it turns out to be a deathmatch-focused game. Then again, the existence of a PC version will likely extend its shelf life far past AR's.

Yeah, and they do have another independent developer experienced with PC games handling that port, so that may be the version to go for. I think it's going to be more about competitive play, though.

Even so, we do know that it will still have a single-player mode, and knowing Itagaki, it'll most likely be something that's infinitely replayable.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 29, 2013, 12:34:49 PM
Even so, we do know that it will still have a single-player mode, and knowing Itagaki, it'll most likely be something that's infinitely replayable.

Oh, that's good! The trailer made it look like a single-player game, though since it showed off two characters I figured that meant it'd be co-op focused or something. Devil's Third is probably my most anticipated game right now after Bayonetta 2, though it could become number 1 after more substantial gameplay footage is released. :)

Bayonetta 2 would be my most anticipated game if I owned a Wii-U, but I still need to play through the first game again.

Oh, BTW, speaking of Ninja Gaiden....did anyone else remember that it was this franchise's 25th anniversary? No, well don't worry, Tecmo didn't give a shit, either. :oo:

You know, while I can't stand the way that the NG series is going without Itagaki, I do think that one thing they have the right idea about is treating the series mythos like a comic book. I mean, if you think about it, the characters and world are so all over the place and inconsistent that it feels like a long-running comic book series. So using that as an excuse to do whatever you want with the Universe could lead to actual good story possibilities. Team Ninja would do better to higher a good comic book writer as opposed to some hack who writes most of their stories.

So, Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z is coming out tomorrow and I only JUST remembered that this was even a thing. It says a lot about how much NG3 destroyed the series for me that I'm now at the point where a new NG game is coming out and I can't even bring myself to give a shit.

At this point I'm just praying that Devil's Third will come out this year to give me at least some taste of great action-gaming. But even though Itagaki said it would....the guy's word is about as good as his bizarre sense of fashion. He's made several statements that it would come out in 2012, then it got delayed to 2013, and now he says 2014, but until I see an actual trailer for the game, I'm seriously doubting that it'll be coming out this year. I think that VGS really needs to find a publisher first, and the fact that apparently nobody would buy the property from THQ is not a good sign.

And speak of the devil (pun fully intended): http://playeressence.com/devils-third-announcement-coming-soon-says-former-thq-games-boss/

At this point the only thing I'm worried about is where this game (Devil's Third) will release. I want to save up for a good PC, so I just hope it comes onto that platform, which I think it will. Still, I'd like to see it on XBOX360 if it does indeed come out this year. If it comes out for the XBONE and PS4 only, I likely won't get to play it for a long while.

So, NGZ is getting shit reviews as predicted. No surprise there, and quite frankly I don't care like I did with NG3 because I was never really interested in this game. What I do want to point out is one of the funniest (and completely true) fan comments that I've ever seen:

QuoteIts amazing how the franchise just gets worse and worse with every new installment. You think they hit the bottom, but they just keep digging.

At this point, Ninja Gaiden 4 will probably destroy your console upon pressing start and maybe give you cancer.

Thank you random forum poster. That comment just made my day. :joy:

 :DRight on the money!

I just realized that NGZ is the only NG game to have been released on Steam, and thus is essentially the only NG game with an "official" PC port (at least in North America, since I believe some of the classics got ported to the PC overseas, way back in the day). Now I can't stop thinking that the only exposure PC-only gamers will ever get to this series (unless they use emulators), is this vulgar mess.

Granted that, I don't think PC-only gamers care for these types of action games for the most part, especially the elitists a who snub their noses at any and all console games, but it's still an inexcusably bad showing for a franchise that frankly deserves better treatment.

On another note, shame on you, Keiji Inafune, for putting this project into motion. It annoys me that he was apparently the one who approached Team Ninja about the concept for this game, yet then he an "Hayashit" decided to hand this over to a third party Western developer who are known for having a shitty track record of games. The clear lack of respect that this long-running, well-established series has been getting, even from its own company and developers, is just fucking sad. :(

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 19, 2014, 09:03:10 PM
Granted that, I don't think PC-only gamers care for these types of action games for the most part, especially the elitists a who snub their noses at any and all console games, but it's still an inexcusably bad showing for a franchise that frankly deserves better treatment.

Actually, PC-only gamers love third person action games if the Steam forums and Rock Paper Shotgun comment sections are any indication. Devil May Cry 4 and DmC received much better reception on PC than consoles because that's really all they had to play in terms of the genre. People have been clamoring for ports of Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden 1/2, and a redo of DMC 3 for ages.

I'm surprised that Capcom never ported over the DMC HD collection to the PC, though from what I've heard, porting some of those older games over to the PC isn't as easy as it sounds. DMC4 runs on the MT Framework engine, which works much better for PC ports (once again, according to what I've heard). Games like NGZ and DmC run on the Unreal 3 engine, which was pretty much designed with PC games in mind, so those are no-brainers. I have no idea if the engine that TN used for the NG games makes it hard to port them to the PC, but if Hayashi proved at least one thing, it's that they can be ported. By all accounts, porting NGB to the PS3 as NGS was no easy task, since that game was designed to run specifically on the XBOX's hardware, and as we all know, Sony's consoles have a very different set-up, which is why so many of the early third party ports do XBOX360 or PC games ran like shit on the PS3 (F.E.A.R. being one of the many casualties).

From what I hear, the new RE4 port runs really well, and makes up for the shitty one they tried to pass by back in 2006 or so. Going by that, they can still definitely port these games. It'll just take some more time and effort....which kind of makes it obvious why we haven't already gotten these pots in the first place.

It'd be great for the genre to get many classics ported to the PC, though, to expand the user-base of players. It's just like how this gen allowed console gamers to get some older PC games that couldn't be handled on the original XBOX or PS2, and now games like Half-Life 2 and F.E.A.R. have way more fans than before. The same could be true for stuff like Ninja Gaiden and Bayonetta if those ever got the same treatment, but I seriously doubt that it'll ever happen, unfortunately.

Well, I just beat Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge. God, that was painful. Story mode was terrible to the point that I feel compelled to write a full review nailing everything wrong with this game as an action game in general. I think what hurt me the most was the unresponsiveness of the controls for Ryu. It artificially increases the difficulty of the game. That's right, Team Ninja doesn't know or understand how to craft genuinely challenging gameplay anymore. I mean, what happened? Even without Itagaki and some key members, how did they allow the bar to fall this low? I'm really not interested in NG4 at this point. The only half-way decent thing about this game is the Ninja Trials, which are kind of fun since they are pure combat without all of the shitty gimmicks from story mode, but even those pale in comparison to the excellent Mission Mode from NGB and Sigma, which feel much more fair and less monotonous.

The Seraphim17 gave his thoughts on NGZ in this Balls Deep video: http://youtu.be/IrutfVY0QXk

He does a good job of pointing out why the game sucks while not coming off like an angry fanboy, since you can tell that he was trying to be positive about this game in terms of highlighting some of it's more interesting ideas, but also showing why they still don't save it from being shit.

He really does bring a lot of insight into games of this genre, which is why I love watching his playthroughs and listening to his commentary.

But, what he says near the end is so true: Ninja Gaiden as a series is pretty much dead. Team Ninja or another developer would have to do something MASSIVELY amazing to make up for the past couple of games, and that's just flat-out not going to happen.

Since Desensitized has done it for Contra and Castlevania, I thought, why not give one of my favorite franchises the same treatment?

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Ninja Gaiden (1988/Arcade)

While many believe that this iconic series was started on the NES, the truth is that it took its first step out the door with this more obscure arcade game, just a year before the NES release. The game was....not exactly great. While not necessarily a bad game for its time, it felt like a cheap knock-off of Double Dragon, and from experience with the XBOX port of the game, it felt like it was designed to eat quarters with some unfair difficulty that you kind of had to use cheap tactics to get through unless you wanted to spare a lot of continues. Overall, it's a noble effort, but certainly not the best way to start off such an iconic franchise.

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Ninja Gaiden (1989/NES)

Now, this was more like it. Whereas the original Ninja Gaiden took influence from Double Dragon, beat-em-ups weren't quite as popular of a genre when it came to consoles. With a new development team at the helm in-house at Tecmo, it was decided to make a completely different kind of game, and rather than taking inspiration from beat-em-ups, they wanted to go for more of an action platformer vibe, and most prominently took influence from the Castlevania series. However, what they managed to do was to make a game that arguably had better controls and more intuitive level design than the older Castlevania titles, and thus while the game was just as hard, it arguably felt a lot less cheap when you ended up dying. Sure, they also took some of the less than stellar elements from Castlevania as well, such as the birds basically being replacements for the Medusa Heads, and your character seemingly gravitating toward bottomless pits whenever he was hit, but thanks to much tighter design, it felt like it was genuinely your fault when you did get hit, more often than not. The game isn't perfect by any means, and it has its cheap moments, especially with that grueling final boss gauntlet which sends you back to the beginning of the level after just 1 death, but even so, nobody can deny this game's status as a classic, and its popularity persisted because, at the end of the day, it was still fun.

Of course, it only goes without saying that the game did one other very incredible thing that very few games of its time can claim, and that's the addition of story-driven cutscenes. While the story can be seen as very cheesy and poorly written by today's standards, it was undoubtedly a spectacle in its day, and helped pioneer the advancement of videogame story-telling in a way that's still being felt to this very day. It's pretty ironic considering that these games never had great story-telling, yet had so much influence on the medium in that regard. And while the story in this game itself is nothing truly special, it still feels very charming and helps give your character a purpose, which makes each new cutscene that you earn by completing a new level feel all the more rewarding. And on top of all of that, this game has what I consider to be one of the greatest videogame soundtracks of all time. This is right up there with Mega Man and Sonic the Hedgehog when it comes to classic, iconic videogame tunes. When you put the complete package together, it's no wonder that this game was a hit, and thankfully this is what really kickstarted the franchise that we know and love to this day.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvideogamecritic.com%2Fimages%2Fnes%2Fninja_gaiden_ii__the_dark_sword_of_chaos.jpg&hash=7b499e264da2a812b945058cd21d2f5cea6026dc)
Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos (1990/NES)

Honestly, while this is my favorite 2D Ninja Gaiden game by far, there isn't that much to say about it because I already covered most of what makes 2D NG great in the first place with my entry about the first game. This game essentially takes that, and amps it up to 11 in every possible regard. The controls are just as tight, but now Ryu's abilities are even sharper, including his ability to scale walls (whereas before he had to jump back and forth between them, which you can still do here if you want), and the power-ups are the best the series has ever had, with my personal favorite being the ninja clones that can fight alongside you. Now that's innovation. On top of that, the levels are really creative with the different weather conditions affecting gameplay, which some may hate, but I found it to be an interesting and fair challenge. The music is also somehow just as good as it was in the first game, making this another one of the greatest videogame soundtracks of all time, which is a tall order that they somehow managed to fill. And finally, while still not great by today's standards, the story is even better than in the original, IMO, and went into fairly dark territory for an NES game, including the death of Irene, one of the main characters (even if Irene was resurrected by the end, it must have been a shock to kids to see her stabbed to death in cold blood). Overall, the 2D games just never got better than this.

Also, this game introduced us to Robert T. Sturgeon, a side character, and arguably the biggest video game bad-ass before Duke Nukem even existed. That alone is enough to make this game amazing.

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Ninja Gaiden III: The Ancient Ship of Doom (1991/NES)

For the longest time, this game has been regarded as one of the worst games in the franchise, and generally terrible, and after having replayed it on more than one occasion, I have to say that this is simply not true. But, just to get it out of the way, let's see what this game does wrong. Well, for one thing, the music is not nearly as good as in the first 2 games. Admittedly that's a big hit for a series that was known for its excellent music, but sometimes music isn't everything, either. Additionally, you also took double damage than what you previously used to take, and had limited continues whereas the previous games let you continue as much as you want, as long as you didn't give up. That was certainly a huge problem....in the North American version of the game, whereas the original Japanese release had you take a normal amount of damage from attacks and let you continue infinitely, like in the previous games. Also, you could say that the difficulty was a bit more uneven, with some sections alternating between ridiculously hard and laughably easy. It certainly didn't feel as well-paced as its predecessors. I've also heard it said that the story was crap and didn't live up to the first 2 games (and also confusing for some because it takes place in-between the first 2 games, but the American instruction manual said that it was a sequel to NG2), but honestly, for a series that has always had campy and nonsensical stories, I've always found this complaint to just be flat-out silly.

Those are what we call flaws, and yes the game has them, but does that make it a bad game entirely? Not if it makes up for it with improvements to the general gameplay formula, which it most certainly did. For one thing, the platforming in this game is actually the most intuitive that it has ever been in the series. Ryu can do everything that he did before, in addition to hanging from ledges, and when it comes to scaling an edge to the top, he no longer has to do that really weird jump, but instead just automatically climbs up when you push up on the d-pad, as he should. The power-ups aren't as creative as in the second game, but it does redeem itself with the sword extension power-up, which is incredibly awesome and probably my third favorite in the entire series. Also, the stages show some more creativity with new sections where you have to scale up a level before something like lava or spikes end up getting you. These sections are really intense and a lot of fun since they manage to be challenging but mostly fair. So, I don't know what it is that makes people give this game such a bad rep, which quite frankly it doesn't deserve. It has flaws, yes, but it also has strengths, and IMO, the strengths outweigh the flaws.

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Ninja Gaiden Shadow (1991/Game Boy)

This game was actually never originally meant to be a Ninja Gaiden game. It was meant to be a GB adaptation of the NES game, Shadow of the Ninja, made by a different development team than the NES Ninja Gaiden trilogy, called Natsume, until Tecmo had them re-purpose the game as an NG spin-off. You may recognize these guys as the ones who also made the excellent beat-em-up title Ninja Warriors on the SNES, as well as that kick-ass Power Rangers game for the same system. That said, I honestly can't comment on this game specifically, as I've never played it. I've heard that it's decent, but doesn't quite stack up to the NES titles, which is about what I would expect. But, maybe I'll give it a try someday, all the same.

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Ninja Gaiden (1991/Sega Game Gear)

Yeah....this one pretty much speaks for itself. It's easily the most obscure Ninja Gaiden game ever released for a reason. It looks like crap, and from what I've heard, it plays like crap as well. Moving on....

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Ninja Gaiden (1992/Sega Master System)

This is the third NG game in a row that I haven't played, and to be fair, it's hard to find since it's also pretty obscure these days. I may just end up going ahead and using an emulator for this so I can play it, but the fact that I am willing to play it is saying something. Would you believe that this game was actually very well-received by critics at the time of its release? It was praised for its sharp gameplay, and while being developed by a different development team, was considered to be just as worthy as any of the NES games in bearing the Ninja Gaiden name. It also had its fair share of cutscenes, and the game's aesthetic look seemed to take influence from the Shinobi games, a series which you could consider to be Ninja Gaiden's rival during that era of gaming, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

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Ninja Gaiden/Black (2004/2005/XBOX)

So, for those of you unacquainted with the franchise, you may notice a peculiar 12-year gap between the last Ninja Gaiden game and this one. That's because, for the longest time, the series suddenly just disappeared (very much like a ninja ;)). Attempts were made to make new games. There was a game in development for the Genesis which never saw the light of day, though a ROM of the unfinished Beta version has been leaked online for years. And then came the 64-bit era, where quite frankly, 2D games weren't usually as profitable, and Tecmo couldn't find a developer who could figure out how to translate the classic 2D franchise successfully into the 3D realm. So, an entire generation (arguably 2) went by without a new Ninja Gaiden game.

Enter in then Tecmo newbie Tomonobu Itagaki. He got his start in the company by working as an assistant programmer on the sports game Tecmo Bowl, and as I understand, was mentored by one of the senior programmers of the NES NG games. It wasn't until the mid-90's when he moved his way far up enough in the dying company to finally be given charge of directing a brand new IP of his own. He decided to make a fighting game called Dead or Alive, in reference to how this one game could decide the fate of the nearly bankrupt publisher, and using his hand-picked development team which would eventually come to be known as Team Ninja, they made a brand new fighting game series that was quite successful in Japanese arcades, and even managed to do well overseas, at the time. What does this have to do with Ninja Gaiden? Well, admittedly not much, except for the fact that, as an homage and tribute to the series, Itagaki saw fit to include Ryu Hayabusa as a playable character in these games, managing to barely keep the Ninja Gaiden legacy alive during its long hiatus.

Then, in 1999, while still in the development process of Dead or Alive 2, Itagaki along with Team Ninja had conceived the idea to make a new character action game for the Sega Dreamcast, a system which Itagaki rightfully loved for its top-of-the-line specs (at the time) and excellent controller which was ideal for the type of game that he wanted to make. This was actually never originally thought up as a Ninja Gaiden game, with Itagaki claiming that the higher-ups at Tecmo asked him to make it a new Ninja Gaiden game since the character of Ryu Hayabusa was still fairly recognizable and somewhat popular thanks to his inclusions in the DOA games. Itagaki complied, and thus we entered into a new era of Ninja Gaiden games.

In this case, since development of DOA2 was still underway, they didn't really get too much into the development process of this game until after DOA2's release, at which point the Dreamcast was failing and soon after halted production completely. Because of this, it was decided that development for the game would be geared toward the PS2, until Itagaki got his chance to try an XBOX dev kit, and instantly fell in love with it, partly because its design reminded him quite a bit about the Dreamcast, and also because the system was flat-out more powerful than the PS2 or GC, and he favored the console that he could make the better game on, rather than the one that would get him more sales.

Finally, the game was released on the XBOX in 2004, to unanimous critical acclaim. Quite frankly, this game had very little in common with the NES games, to the dismay of many classic NG fans. It did have the 3D interpretation of some of its classic elements, including stuff like the windmill shuriken and Ryu Hayabusa's Dragon Sword and platforming techniques, but other than that, it was a completely different type of game. Rather than an action platformer, it was a straight-up character action game, in the vein of Devil May Cry. And the haters can say what they want, but this was for the best. Unlike Contra, Castlevania, Mega Man, DKC, and so many other classic 2D franchises that didn't translate well into 3D, Ninja Gaiden instead took a different approach and instead was a game that was designed to fit a gameplay style that worked extremely well in 3D. What's the point of calling it Ninja Gaiden, then? Because even with all of these differences, it retained the spirit of Ninja Gaiden in its purest form. It was brutally difficult, but fair. It was super responsive with good controls and excellent pacing, but it still required a learning curve. And it had the trademark nonsensical story of the older games, but at the end of the day, the heart was still there in the gameplay.

Not only is this the best 3D Ninja Gaiden game to date, but it's the best NG game period, IMO. Despite Itagaki's denial, it does clearly take much influence from the original DMC, but the enemy design of the game is just as brilliant, with incredibly well-designed AI that is still unrivaled in the genre to this day. The combat was also (and still is) some of the most satisfying around, with this being one of the first games to force you to think just as much about how to play defensively as offensively. Button mashers were quickly punished, but those who learned the ropes were treated to an excellent combat system that, while not quite as deep as later action games like DMC 3/4 and Bayonetta, held its own against any of them through incredible nuance, responsive controls, and unparalleled action when it came to the actual fluidity of combat, which quite frankly no game has done better than this one, to date.

Rather than a level-to-level straightforward experience, we had more labyrinth like dungeon-style levels, much like in a Zelda game, with careful thought put into making it fun to explore, but easy to navigate so as not to offset the action elements of the game. There were chests in which you could find items, new weapons, or be treated to deadly bats depending on what chest you opened and what difficulty you were playing on. And that's ingenious. To date, no other game has done harder difficulties as well as NGB, in which you are introduced to completely brand new enemies that you never even encountered before on the lower difficulties, harder enemies appear much earlier on in the game, and the contents of chests and location of certain weapons has been completely swapped around to make each experience with the game feel completely different from the last, all the way up to Master Ninja mode. Speaking of which, as a testament to how well-designed and fair this game is, several people have managed to clear this game on that mode without taking any damage at all. Now you just flat-out can't bitch and moan and whine about a game's difficulty when it's possible to get that good at it through practice and skill.

As if that's not enough, this game was also remarkably ahead of its time in one regard you wouldn't expect: additional online content for console games, otherwise known as downloadable content, or DLC. Yep, an entire generation before this became such a common thing, and while this was already a common practice for PC games, Ninja Gaiden was one of the first games on consoles to expand the experience through additional downloads that enhanced the experience, and they were completely FREE, no less. We got 2 Hurricane Packs, which among other things, added new enemies to the game, as well as gave us the addition of Ryu's now famous Lunar Staff, one of the best weapons in the series.

Then Ninja Gaiden Black was released a year later, including most of the Hurricane Pack content, and way more than that, with an entirely new Mission Mode that skyrocketed the replay value of this game so high that it's insane. I could go on and on about how amazing this title is, but suffice it to say that it's clearly my favorite Ninja Gaiden game, AND my favorite video game of all time for a reason. I don't see anything dethroning it for a long time to come, in my eyes.

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Ninja Gaiden Sigma (2007/PlayStation 3/PlayStation Vita)

This was a retooled version of Ninja Gaiden Black, with updated HD graphics and certain level structure and enemy changes for the PS3, as well as a new playable character and even a new weapon for Ryu. The project was not overseen by Itagaki, but instead headed by his protege, Yosuke Hayashi....I won't bother saying much about the guy, but he'll definitely have an influence on the series later on....and not for the better. At any rate, while several of this game's changes and additions actually make the game come off as inferior to the XBOX version in the opinions of most fans, the fact that it's still based on that game makes it excellent by default, and to its credit, it had several little touches that would prove to be great gameplay additions and appear in later games. Among these, the game allowed Ryu to now fire his bow from mid-air, which made some frustrating segments from the earlier versions of the game now feel much more manageable, and the game also added in the Dragon's Claw and Tiger's Fan, otherwise known as the dual katanas, which would also show up in future installments of the series.

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Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword (2008/Nintendo DS)

This was a side-project that Itagaki and Hayashi both oversaw, and was meant to whet the appetite of fans eagerly anticipating NG2 later that year. Unfortunately, despite good reviews from critics, the game sold poorly, and to date is one of the most overlooked and underrated games that I have ever played. While not necessarily as great as the best games in the franchise, Dragon Sword was a completely unique experience that took full advantage of the DS's hardware and made for something that was fun form beginning to end. Rather than just using buttons, you controlled Ryu with the stylus, and used a combination of physical attacks and magic to progress through the game, killing enemies and solving puzzles. It's a fun game for what it is, and probably deserved a bit more attention than it got, but I'm just glad that it exists and that I got the chance to play it. It may not be for everyone, but as a Ninja Gaiden game, it's definitely a worthy entry in the franchise.

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Ninja Gaiden II (2008/XBOX 360)

I've already covered this game in detail on my most anticipated games list, so I won't say too much more over here. That said, yes, this was my most anticipated game of all time, and in some regards it can be seen as a letdown, while in other ways it's still a great game, just with numerous flaws holding it back from being as great as it should've been. You see, Itagaki was about done with Tecmo at the time, and this was the last game that he directed for them before he quit the company and sued them over unpaid bonuses that were promised to him. So, as a consequence, this game had to be rushed to meet a release deadline, and wasn't pushed back like his usual releases, meaning that he didn't have the time to fine-tun and polish the game to near perfection like usual, which meant that it had numerous balance issues, and in general felt unfinished.

Despite all of this, the game was still great, and generally well-received by critics, and whether people love it or hate it, most people unanimously agree that it succeeded in one area in particular: the combat. Everything that was great about the combat in the first game was even better here. Once again, rather than try to be as insanely deep as DMC 3/4, this game instead took a more accessible approach, but still made the combat extremely nuanced and skill-based for more hardcore players who really wanted to get good at the game, and implemented a new OT system that made this what I consider to be the best and most satisfying combat system of all time, for any game that I have ever played. Unfortunately....just about everything else in the game felt like a step back from the previous title, including some really annoying enemies and bosses, though most were pretty well-designed, though not nearly as well as in the first game. Additionally, while aesthetically pleasing, the level design was more linear rather than the interesting Zelda-like levels from the first game, which also didn't bode well with me, even though I still enjoyed most of the levels. Overall, the strengths outweighed the weaknesses with this one, but there's no doubt that it could've been better had it had the proper amount of time that it needed to be tuned into its full potential. Sadly, in the one chance that our good old friend Yosuke Hayashi had to do that after Itagaki's departure from Tecmo and Team Ninja, he didn't exactly deliver. Speaking of which....

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Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2/Plus (2009/PlayStation 3/PlayStation Vita)

Trust me, whereas the first Sigma had plenty of changes, this game was a complete overhaul of NG2, and quite frankly feels almost entirely like a different game. On the plus side, it added a lot of new content, including a mission mode, and for the first time ever in the series, co-operative multiplayer (albeit with a crappy net-code, making for some serious lag during certain sessions). Most notably, the blood and violence had been almost completely removed, but putting that aside, the way the game's mechanics worked were also botched to some degree. On the one hand, if you're one of the few whining pricks who hated the OT system, then this game sort of appeased you because it made it much harder to dismember enemies than before, though it was still a prominent feature in the game. That said, some people may enjoy that if they like more free-style combos and don't want to finish enemies off too quickly and efficiently, but quite frankly that's never what NG's combat was about to begin with. Also, enemy placements were completely changed, and some new bosses were added to the game, with some levels in particular feeling flat-out unrecognizable from their NG2 counterpart. In the case of NG2's Chapter 11 (which is NGS2's Chapter 14), the entire level was butchered, but it's only fair to mention that some of the worst NG2 levels were actually changed for the better (albeit not by much), including NG2's Chapter 9, Heart of Darkness, which was the worst level in the entire game, and was actually made a lot less frustrating and a lot more streamlined in Sigma 2, including with the change in the boss fights for that level. On its own, it's actually a really good and well above average character action game with excellent combat and tons of content and replay value. That said, compared to NG2, it does feel like they really just tried to make a different game, as opposed to fixing what was wrong with NG2 and helping it reach its true full potential, so in that regard, many fans, including myself, are disappointed in it and consider it to be a huge missed opportunity on Team Ninja's part.

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Ninja Gaiden 3 (2012/XBOX 360/PlayStation 3)

And we finally come to this piece of shit. As the first game that Yosuke Hayashi directed from the ground up on his own, it's an utter failure. Quite frankly it's not all his fault. No doubt KoeiTecmo (this was the first new NG game released after the company merger) mandated that this game try to be more modern to appeal to a wider demographic of gamers, and they also wanted to take a note from Capcom and other big publishers by holding back content and trying to make more money on paid DLC. And, of course, multiplayer. That's exactly what a series that was always one of the premiere single-player action gaming experiences needed.

In all seriousness, I'm past being angry at this game. I accept that it's a thing, and I just choose not to really let it phase me anymore. I can't help but always be at least a little saddened by it, though. For one thing, it TRIES to convince us that this time we have a Ninja Gaiden game with a story worth telling, but whereas every other game in the series was charming at least in how cheesy and campy the stories were, this one is just as nonsensical and convoluted with the extra detractor of taking itself way too seriously for its own good, making it come off as self-indulgent and just flat-out cringe-worthy (That "Will you be my daddy?" part makes me want to hurl every time that I see it). So, what went wrong with this game?

Well, I could talk about how stupid the decisions were from the beginning, like limiting your arsenal to just one weapon, in a series that was known for having such a wide variety of different weapons. I could mention how making it button-masher friendly killed the fun for veteran players who wanted a fun challenge with plenty of combat options at their disposal. Maybe it might be how the game flat-out left out the OT system from the previous game and instead dumbed down the combat and killed combo potential with randomly generated Steel on Bone attacks which were just disgusting quick time events where you slowly sawed through an enemy's bones and organs. Perhaps I should talk about how the game abandoned its trademark difficulty in order for an easier experience, and instead gave us fake difficulty on the harder difficulty settings by throwing insanely large enemy gauntlets at us and making it so that one or two cheaply placed attacks could kill you, and unlike in previous games, you couldn't hold an inventory of healing items to wisely manage throughout your battles. But, no, those are merely features, and this game went horribly wrong in one particular way that explains how all of those things even happened in the first place.

Put simply, KoeiTecmo and Team Ninja betrayed the ideals and concepts of what made the NG franchise what it was. They made a game that was ashamed of its old-school roots and history, and ashamed of the fans who had supported it for so long. What we got was a game with a crappy story and just as crappy gameplay to complement it, in that they had even taken away the one thing that NG games had always gotten right since their inception: responsive controls. Deaths no longer felt fair in the slightest, and even when you were winning, you weren't really having fun. It made Ryu Hayabusa into as big of an ass-hole character as Kratos, just in the name of trying to make him a Dark Hero because they thought that somehow that made the game more mature and appealing. This game is just mediocre at best, and flat-out bad when it's anything less than its best. It may not technically be a terrible game, but more than anything, it just feels tedious and boring, which should never be used to describe a Ninja Gaiden game. Definitely pass on this one.

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Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge (2012/Wii U/XBOX 360/PlayStation 3)

Now, I'll give Team Ninja credit where it's due. They tried. They REALLY tried. They realized that NG3 was a failure, and they know they fucked up, so they tried to make up for it by completely overhauling the game even more than they overhauled the Sigma games. There is tons more content than ever before, tons of weapons added back in, new playable characters, over 100 playable co-op missions, the same shitty multiplayer except with more maps, and increased difficulty so that you can't button mash your way to victory. And yet, remember what I said in the previous entry. The real problem, rather than talking about all of the features and smaller details, was that when you look at the bigger picture, NG3 was a game that fundamentally, at its core, betrayed what the series was. When you have a game like that, it doesn't matter how much you add to it. You can't fix what already lacked the foundation to build anything off of in the first place. Is the game better with all these additions? Technically, yes. But it's better in the same way that adding ice-cream, whipped cream, and a cherry on top of a giant bowl of turd is better than just a giant bowl of turd by itself. That turd is still going to be there, and it's still going to taste like shit when you eat it.

I will say that the game did one solitary thing right, and that is how it changed the SoB mechanic from being a gross QTE that activated at random to being a calculated grab counter that added to the game's strategy. I hate grab moves in these games, and for a game like this to make it something that you can skillfully counter into an instant kill move is surprisingly brilliant. If just one thing from this game were to return in NG4 (if that game even happens), I would want it to be this. Other than that, this game can also be skipped.

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Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z (2014/XBOX 360/PlayStation 3)

**Sigh**....And it gets worse. Finally we come to this game. The most recent game released under the official title of "Ninja Gaiden," and I won't beat around the bush here. It doesn't deserve it. It deserves it even less than Ninja Gaiden 3 does, and that's saying something. The very little that I've tried of it is very telling, and everything that I've heard about it, whether it be from critics or actual fans of Ninja Gaiden, is completely and rightfully negative. Whereas NG3 was a game that betrayed what the franchise was all about, this is a game that flat-out doesn't understand it.

I'm so disappointed in Team Ninja for even allowing this game to happen. I'm disappointed in Keiji Inafune and Comcept for being the ones to propose this game in the first place, yet take no responsibility for developing it themselves, and in that regard Inafune has completely disrespected the NG franchise and its fan base, which seriously almost makes me want to flat-out not play Mighty No. 9 just to spite him, but I know that's meaningless and that the game will probably be good because HE AND HIS TEAM ARE ACTUALLY DEVELOPING IT. Just don't attach your name to a project that you really have absolutely nothing to do with. No, instead this game was outsourced to Spark Unlimited, a team who had not only never made a game even remotely close to the hack n' slash or action platformer genre, but who's highest crowning achievement to date is Lost Planet 3....just take that in for a second. Their best reviewed game is one that got mostly mediocre reception from critics and gamers, and was the third game in a series that was already mostly considered a failure since its second installment. Why a developer of that....caliber would be trusted with one of the most iconic (or previously most iconic) series in gaming history is beyond me, but it happened, and as predicted the game completely misses the point of what a Ninja Gaiden game is. Beyond that, it's just a flat-out bad game. The controls are bad, the difficulty is cheap, and the design is ugly. The humor is low-brow, which normally I actually kind of like in videogames, but over here it's just flat-out not funny. The game just sucks, plain and simple, and is a sour note to leave off on, so hopefully this isn't the last NG game that we ever get, and the series can redeem itself in the future. I'm not keeping my hopes up, though.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is my comprehensive thoughts and analysis of the Ninja Gaiden franchise. Despite the hiccups that it's had in recent years, I still consider it to be one of my all time favorite video game series, and hopefully the pre-NG3 entries can help highlight why I love it so much. It's sad to see that the series has been all but forgotten by most modern gamers, and it's not what it once was in that regard. It truly does deserve more attention, or at least the older games do, and while the recent entries have hampered its reputation, I'm hoping that one day it can earn back its status as a seal of videogame quality.

Whoa, that was awesome to read! But I mean, it's NG, so I'm not surprised that you nailed it. ;)

Thanks! ;D

I had been writing that in bits and pieces during my spare time over the past couple of days.

I just wish that the series was more well respected than it currently is. Thanks to a few bad games, it seems to have almost become a complete joke among general gamers, but looking at the series as a whole, there is still way more good than bad, IMO.

Good posts!

Ninja Gaiden Shadow is kind of fun, but not really worth playing. It's an okay time waster at best and a mediocre version of the NES titles at worst. There really isn't much good or bad to say about it.

Sigma is weird because it has just as many improvements as it does downgrades. Like, it's almost literally split down the middle: half of the additions to the game are for the better, but the other half are for the worse. It's generally my go-to version of the game at this point, though, since I actually own it on a disc unlike Black, and I have this weird thing about retail copies of games.

This may be getting off-topic a bit, but apparently Hideki Kamiya doesn't think too highly of Inafune (I believe he said something to the extent of, "he's a businessman, not a game designer"). Apparently Inafune's made a lot of bad decisions and enemies in the industry over the years, including pushing for Clover to be shut down.

Quote from: Foggle on October 27, 2014, 11:15:21 PMGood posts!

Thanks! :thumbup:

QuoteNinja Gaiden Shadow is kind of fun, but not really worth playing. It's an okay time waster at best and a mediocre version of the NES titles at worst. There really isn't much good or bad to say about it

That's about as much as I expected, but since I'm a Ninja Gaiden fan and the game is incredibly short, I don't see the harm in playing it just to say that I did.

QuoteSigma is weird because it has just as many improvements as it does downgrades. Like, it's almost literally split down the middle: half of the additions to the game are for the better, but the other half are for the worse. It's generally my go-to version of the game at this point, though, since I actually own it on a disc unlike Black, and I have this weird thing about retail copies of games.

I think it's a solid port/re-release. It's just that I don't care for most of the additions and level structure changes, though like I said, some of them did improve the gameplay for the better, even if not by much.

QuoteThis may be getting off-topic a bit, but apparently Hideki Kamiya doesn't think too highly of Inafune (I believe he said something to the extent of, "he's a businessman, not a game designer"). Apparently Inafune's made a lot of bad decisions and enemies in the industry over the years, including pushing for Clover to be shut down.

Well, it wouldn't be the first thing that he doesn't think too highly of. :>

But, yeah, despite being a great creator in his own right (and I would call him a game designer, myself), there is still some truth to that part about him being a business man, as well, and as we've clearly seen, he's not incapable of making bad decisions.

that gb ng sounds good. i didn't know the reboot was originally for dreamcast. lastly, doom changes the location of some of its items but i don't think to the extent the good 3d ninja gaidens do.

For NG3, you should have used a screen of one of those soldiers begging for their life. Talk about misunderstanding basic concepts.

Good job on the posts. Ninja Gaiden was a pretty good series with a fairly spotless track record... until recently. The worst part about the Comcept game is that had Inafune given it to Inticreates, you would have basically got a Ninja Gaiden IV on par with the NES games. Those guys are the current reigning kings of sidescrolling action platformers in Japan.

But, nope. We get Spark Unlimited. Talk about a waste of everyone's time.

Thanks! :)

Maybe I'll make that picture swap later on. :sly:

And yeah, I'm so disappointed that Inafune just lazily slapped a zombie concept one Ninja Gaiden (cuz zombies are kewl nowz, durrrrr.....>_<), when he could've contracted a more talented developer to do something more interesting with the franchise.

So, recently a petition has been going around to bring the Ninja Gaiden series over to Steam. While I doubt that anything will come of it, I think that it would be amazing to have the first 2 games on the PC. The things that a good modding community could do with them would be so interesting, and especially the 2nd game could benefit from a port since they could fix the frame rate issues and have it consistently running at 60 FPS with all of the blood, gore, and dismemberment intact. They could also get rid of some annoying glitches and remove some crappy enemy encounters and boss fights from the game, but unfortunately that would be asking too much from KoeiTecmo, who apparently don't know the first thing about how to make a good game anymore.

http://mobile.siliconera.com/all/2014-12-02-tomonobu-itagaki-dead-alive-5-daughter-totally-ruined#2

Now, to be fair, I would have much rather had him say this about NG3, since that game actually hurt me a lot, whereas the general DOA fan community actually really seems to like DOA5, overall. That said, it's so refreshing to see classic Itagaki after so many years, doing what he does best: insulting and trashing any games that weren't made by him. :>

no wonder him and kamiya get along so well.

QuoteComing from a Polygon interview with Hideo Yoshizawa, director of 1988's Ninja Gaiden...

"Mr. Yoshizawa was great at enemy placement and pacing. I was always impressed by that. But unfortunately, the game's difficulty was too hard, even for the development team. So during the bug-checking process, team members were basically crying while trying to get through the game."

If they would have removed the birds and had more checkpoints the game would have been pretty close to perfect.

i like getting into the zone in that game. it doesn't stop me from getting my butt kicked at certain parts though.

Reading the interview, it helps hint at what I've always suspected: that Kato's script was heavily interfered with in NG3, seeing as how Hayashi was obsessively fixated on his theme for the game, limiting what Kato could work with. The dude wrote Chronno Trigger, so he can write good stories, but clearly he was half-assing NG3 for a paycheck, because he had no enthusiasm for such a half-assed game. That said, the one thing that he mentioned which I did appreciate in that game was all of the subtle little references and nods to the classic NES games, all of which I did notice on my first and only playthrough of it.

Is it worth owning Ninja Gaiden III on Virtual Console, limited continues and all?

Only on the 3DS or Wii U for save states. I use them between levels to deal with the stupid continue limit.

It's funny how Castlevania III and Ninja Gaiden III were made harder for the USA, but they thought that Lost Levels was too much for us. :P

I dislike the US difficulty increase for the same reason I dislike most of Lost Levels' difficulty. It's all artificial. Taking less hits before death or making the player use pixel perfect jumps with loose controls and physics is just unfair to the player.

NG3 is only on the Wii and 3DS eShop afaik.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 19, 2015, 03:46:30 PM
I dislike the US difficulty increase for the same reason I dislike most of Lost Levels' difficulty. It's all artificial. Taking less hits before death or making the player use pixel perfect jumps with loose controls and physics is just unfair to the player.

Yep. US Castlevania 3 doesn't especially bother me, though.

Quote from: Foggle on February 19, 2015, 03:50:21 PM
NG3 is only on the Wii and 3DS eShop afaik.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 19, 2015, 03:46:30 PM
I dislike the US difficulty increase for the same reason I dislike most of Lost Levels' difficulty. It's all artificial. Taking less hits before death or making the player use pixel perfect jumps with loose controls and physics is just unfair to the player.

Yep. US Castlevania 3 doesn't especially bother me, though.

Castlevania 3 is just tough no matter what. NG3's changes were utterly needless and only negatively affect the game.

Castlevania III might take it a little too far, mainly by forcing you to redo the final level when you die against Dracula. However, that doesn't stop it from being great.

Lord forgive me for what I have done.

I was low on money but still wanted to reach platinum Club Nintendo status before the end of the month. I noticed that NG3 Razor's Edge was only $10 and gives 60 coins... so I bought it. I'm sorry E-K... I have failed you...

Just so you guys know, this is the same Foggle who is choosing not to play Twilight Princess.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 08, 2015, 10:00:50 PM
Just so you guys know, this is the same Foggle who is choosing not to play Twilight Princess.

Twilight Princess is $30+ and won't give me many coins. >:(

Quote from: Foggle on March 08, 2015, 09:57:47 PM
Lord forgive me for what I have done.

I was low on money but still wanted to reach platinum Club Nintendo status before the end of the month. I noticed that NG3 Razor's Edge was only $10 and gives 60 coins... so I bought it. I'm sorry E-K... I have failed you...

:anthony:

First you worked for Gamestop, now this? :oo:

Well, I can't rightfully blame you since I bought the game as well, but as punishment you should force yourself to play through the first 3 levels. :sly:

I mention the first 3 levels because, while the game is shit, it's deceptive at first. The beginning makes you believe that it'll at least be an acceptably mediocre experience. At some point in the third level, there will come a segment where the game completely jumps the shark, and no amount of added content can possibly make it any better. I want you to experience that part where you realize that you are playing utter shit, and just how shitty it really is. Then you will have a burning sensation to find either NGB or NG2 (whichever is more readily accessible to your position), and pop it in to make sure that you aren't going crazy; that the first two games were legitimately good the whole time. A deep sensation of relief will then hit you when you confirm that, yes, Hayashidiot did fuck up NG3, and yes, the first two games are still awesome no matter how bad the later ones are.

Do not, under any circumstances, though, ever try this with Yaiba. I'm afraid that you won't survive the encounter.

To be honest, the only reason I even contemplated buying the game was because it gives you the most value for money on coins, and I'm sure the final platinum reward will be something awesome that more than makes up for the $10. Of course, once my copy arrives, I won't want to just leave it lying around, so I'll be sure to at least beat the first three levels. :whuh:

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 08, 2015, 10:35:49 PM
Do not, under any circumstances, though, ever try this with Yaiba. I'm afraid that you won't survive the encounter.

I watched some videos of Yaiba and it didn't look that bad (story aside - yeesh that was rancid). However, this is probably a case where actually playing the game is a lot worse than just watching it.

I regularly watch a YouTube channel from user TS17, who does walkthroughs of all sorts of games on their hardest difficulties (like NGS on Master Ninja mode, RE4 on Professional with no damage taken, and TEW on Akumu with no upgrades or keys, just to name a few). He has a series called Balls Deep where he plays bits of games that he never plans to do an actual walkthrough for. As someone who hates NG3 himself, he notes that it at least felt competent enough to properly complete. With NGZ, he noted how hard the game was (and this from a guy who can no damage games on their hardest difficulty settings), but for the wrong reasons. The controls are bad, the enemies are ridiculously cheap, and on harder difficulties you are forced to rely on luck because the people at Spark Unlimited have no idea how to properly balance an action game.

Yes, it really is THAT bad. Other NG fans have confirmed it as well. I absolutely refuse to play it, even out of curiosity.

On another note, I read a recent interview where NG3 writer Masato Kato claimed that Hayashi/Team Ninja had most of his original story for the game cut and changed/altered a lot of stuff that he had written. Among the few things left in tact were references to the NES game, one in the form of a woman shooting Ryu in the back, and another being a brief cameo by Robert T. Sturgeon from NGII (NES). Still, he was credited for writing the story. For those who don't know, Kato wrote the stories for the NES NG trilogy, as well as receiving story credits for RPGs like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VII. If that's true....then all of a sudden that cringe-worthy "Will you be my daddy?" scene, among others, makes a lot more sense if Hayashidiot wrote it.

I only saw some early parts of NGZ, which is probably why it didn't look that bad. I assume it must become completely broken in later levels.

I remember watching a lot of the NG3 story on YouTube. God, it's so bad. Not surprising that Hayashi wrote it himself.

Oh, BTW, when I said the first 3 levels, I meant the Ryu levels. I think that Ayane has one in-between that, but it doesn't count. Surprisingly, it's better than any of Ryu's gameplay, and ALMOST decent, if it weren't for the fact that the game basically forces you to either spam UTs or SOBs.

I remember liking Ayane's gameplay a lot more than Ryu's in the demo.

ALL of the female playable characters are more fun than Ryu. It's really baffling.

When the main character of your game is the least fun to play as, you know there's a problem. :-X

How many do YOU know? (http://www.gonintendo.com/s/250348-a-look-at-18-ninja-gaiden-facts)

I literally already knew all of that (and they were even inaccurate on some of their information), but it was still a fun video. I like how they also feel that Ryu would be a great character fit for a Smash Bros. game. At least make him a DLC character, Nintendo!

The same director of the NES Ninja Gaiden games directed Klonoa. Explains a lot.

What would be clever is crossover DLC with Devil's Third. Ryu Hayabusa as an unlockable character or multiplayer costume.

As for Smash, well, you could always vote in the official character poll for him!

Team Ninja is developing an arcade-exclusive Final Fantasy game: http://gamerant.com/dissidia-final-fantasy-arcade-team-ninja/

Well, if it means that they will be keeping their grubby little hands off of the NG franchise for that much longer, then that's a good thing.

Funny how Final Fantasy is a better series these days. :sly:

It's already confirmed to be coming to PS4 later on with enhanced graphics.

Honestly, it'll probably be a good game. This is very much contract work based on a pre-existing model like Hyrule Warriors was, and that was easily Team Ninja Dog's best work.

As long as Hayashit isn't directing it. Dead or Alive 5 and Hyrule Warriors were the best reviewed games that TN was involved with in the post-Itagaki-era, and one thing that they both have in common is that Hayashit didn't direct either of them. He was just relegated to being credited as a producer for each title.

So, the Ninja Gaiden Sigma games are available for $8 a piece via PSN (until the 20th) for anyone who wants them:

http://gearnuke.com/psn-flash-sale-offers-koei-tecmo-games-including-dynasty-warriors-ninja-gaiden/

This would be a good opportunity to get NGS2 for cheap, for those who don't have the option of playing the X360 version of the game.

I plan on owning a physical copy of the game, but this is a great deal. Ninja Gaiden Sigma is next on my playlist, and Sigma 2 shouldn't be too much longer afterward!

So on a 1 to 10 scale, what do you guys rate the NG games?

My own personal bias:

Ninja Gaiden Arcade (6/10)
Ninja Gaiden (8/10)
Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos (9/10)
Ninja Gaiden III: The Ancient Ship of Doom (7/10)
Ninja Gaiden/Black/Sigma (10/10)
Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword (8/10)
Ninja Gaiden 2 (9/10)
Ninja Gaiden 3 (4/10)
Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge (5/10)
Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z (3/10)

Now, which do you hate more between 3 and Z? I know you recognize Z as the worse game, but I was wondering if maybe you have more negative feelings about 3 being that it is the game responsible for killing your favorite series. :P

Well, I've played more of 3 than Z, and it certainly feels like a bigger disappointment to me since it was actually made by Team Ninja and still sucks. With Z, it was made by a shitty NA developer who had never made a hack n' slash game in their life, so it kind of makes sense thst it would suck.

Since successors to dead classic franchises are currently a thing, maybe Ninja Gaiden should go on the list.

Made me think of the 2D series.

That would probably be the Ninja Gaiden style that would get a revival. Simply because it's an action platformer, and platformers seem to be the types of games that currently are getting successors (for example Banjo-Kazooie, Mega Man, and Castlevania are all, to a certain extent, platformers).

I'd love that. We need more NG style platformers.

So today, I finally started playing Ninja Gaiden (feels weird to finally say that). I'm only about an hour in. I would play more, but I have work soon, but I'm hoping to get in plenty of playtime tomorrow. Anyway, as I predicted, I'm kind of bad at the game right now. The first boss of the game, the old man in the temple, gave me a bit of trouble as did some of the ninjas that I faced shortly afterward. I'm currently in the middle of the burning Hayabusa Village, and faced some of the enemies on horseback. They gave me trouble, too. Yeah, I've encountered some difficulty, though I'm not sure good I am relative to you guys when you first played it. :P

I have to say, I'm really digging the combat system. The game's been tough for me, as I made clear, but it's also pretty exhilarating, in a good way. And the controls? Ryu is a lot of fun to just move with. Jumping, running up walls, running up walls and then jumping, and running on water, I've been very pleased. In that sense, it's like the original games on the NES. May be a different genre, but Ryu feels great to use just like he did then. Speaking of Ryu, is he wearing the same outfit that he did in the NES games? It doesn't look totally identical, but I figured it might be like a modern update.

Also, even though the game was made for XBox, I have to say that, aesthetically, it looks pretty nice.

This is the classic costume:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardcoregaming101.net%2Fninjagaiden%2Fblack-cost-5.jpg&hash=8b075a4039f83e0caa0d2d5089087099a91c36b8)

It is pretty cool.

Yeah, I recognize that for sure.

Nice.

Wait, Ninja Gaiden 1 had water running?

It's surreal to see you finally playing this game. ;D

Anyways, since the game doesn't do the best job of explaining how its own mechanics work, let me clear a few things up for you:

-You can charge up attacks for Ultimate Techniques with each weapon, as I'm sure that you know, but you can also absorb essence to do a quick charge to unleash on enemies in a practical sense. Doing this is extremely useful and powerful, but it will come at the cost of whatever the essence itself that you used up was. But killing enemies with this techinque will yield you multiple times more yellow essence than normal. And as I'm sure that you've already determined, yellow essence is currency, blue essence restores health, and red essence restores Ninpo/magic. Absorbing one piece of yellow essence insta-charges a level 1 UT, but absorbing 2 pieces will insta-charge a level 2 UT. Since they are more rare, you only need to absorb a single piece of either blue or red essence to charge a full UT. Additionally, to do an even quicker animation charge for UTs, you can time it so that you press and hold Triangle right after landing from a jump to skip the animation entirely and come straight out with a UT. Though, the enemy has to be in range, otherwise your attack will whiff.

-The horseback enemies are admittedly among the least fun to fight, but take solace in the fact that they literally only show up in the second level. Furthermore, there is a much easier strategy to fight them. First, completely forget about the bow in this case. You really don't need it. Just stand in a corner of the arena, and take out your Lunar Staff (I'm assuming that you picked it up by now, unless you somehow missed it), and just charge up UTs while waiting for the enemies to approach you. They will be off camera, but when they get close the camera will pan out toward their direction, which is how you'll know that they are coming close. Time it so that you release your UT just before they are close enough to hit you (UT's also give you i-frames, so you can't be hurt or interrupted during those attacks). You might get hit by an arrow or two doing this strategy, but it's no problem as you can just get back to your corner and keep going. This is the easiest strategy to take down these enemies, and it always works well if you do it right.

-You can chain together rolls and jumps to keep yourself mobile and nearly impossible to hit. Practice doing that often, and get in the habit of holding down the block button when you aren't on the offensive. It saves you from the trouble of having to quickly react to a lot of quick attacks, saving you a lot of health in the long run.

In general, there is so much to this game's combat and mechanics, and the brilliance of its design is that all of the tools are there for your success. Plenty of skilled players have beaten the game on Master Ninja difficulty without taking any damage, so take that as encouragement that you can prevail through any situation, even if you are low on health and items. I almost wish I could be sitting in the same room as you to coach you in person and demonstrate what to do, but a lot of the fun of this game comes from learning the more intricate nature of its gameplay mechanics for yourself, and the rewarding feeling that you get for starting to play it better. I hope that you remmeber to enjoy yourself, in that regard, even at moments when you are losing. ;)

Quote from: gunswordfist on May 13, 2015, 01:47:39 PMWait, Ninja Gaiden 1 had water running?

How did you never notice this?

And yes, the Legendary Black Falcon costume is an update for the reboot. While I like Ryu's classic costume, which is unlockable in this game, I can understand why they made the change to better appeal to a modern gaming audience.

I may have been late, but I always intended to get to it. :D

I was playing around with the way Ryu moves for a while and I've got a hang of it, well at least to a certain extent because I'm sure there's still so much I've yet to learn. The Ultimate Techniques ability is the one where Ryu charges the Dragon Sword in place, right (by the way, I think I remember the Dragon Sword being the weapon from the NES games)? As for the horseback enemies, they remind me that there were really quite a few times when I came close to death in the hour I played.

That strategy you mentioned, of getting in the habit of keeping the block button pressed when not attacking, is something I was working on doing. I was also working on utilizing jumping in combat, though I need to keep training on that as I kind of made Ryu look goofy flying all over the place. I do want to get better at this game and master strategies, which I think is a very good thing for a game to motivate the player to do. This game is also getting me excited about really exploring the hack and slash genre.

Also, I recently purchased Sigma 2 and it's currently being shipped to my house, so I think we know what game I'll be playing after this one. ;)

Quote from: talonmalon333 on May 13, 2015, 10:15:14 PMThe Ultimate Techniques ability is the one where Ryu charges the Dragon Sword in place, right (by the way, I think I remember the Dragon Sword being the weapon from the NES games)?

Yes, the Dragon Sword is from the NES games. It's a sacred, ancient weapon passed down through generations to the head of the Hayabusa clan. And the UT is the charge-up move, but it can be done with any melee weapon in the game except the Nunchucks and Wooden Sword, not just the Dragon Sword.

QuoteThat strategy you mentioned, of getting in the habit of keeping the block button pressed when not attacking, is something I was working on doing. I was also working on utilizing jumping in combat, though I need to keep training on that as I kind of made Ryu look goofy flying all over the place. I do want to get better at this game and master strategies, which I think is a very good thing for a game to motivate the player to do. This game is also getting me excited about really exploring the hack and slash genre.

Yeah, there are some really great games in this genre. :)

QuoteAlso, I recently purchased Sigma 2 and it's currently being shipped to my house, so I think we know what game I'll be playing after this one. ;)

Glad to hear it! Just keep your expectations in check, as it won't be as good as this game, except for the combat which is better in either version of the sequel.

I just spent a lot of time trying to get through a single area. Just past that portion in the village where you're attacked by those horseback riders, I had to fight another one of them on a small bridge, and they were on fire and had the help of those enemies that teleport and shoot beams. I really died quite a few times in that area. But what I like about the difficulty is that, when I die, I can frequently pinpoint the reason why I failed, so that I can try to correct it when I try again. I have yet to feel like I died for something that couldn't have possibly been my fault, and even though I'm still early in the game, I have faith that the game will continue to balance its difficulty this way until the end. It's that good kind of challenge where, even when you get frustrated, it's frustrating in a way that makes you want to try again and do it right, and then feel such satisfaction when you accomplish that.

Though I'm sure you guys have said that countless times by now, even just within this thread, so I'm probably not saying anything new. Just humor me because, as much as you guys are probably well familiar with this game, it's new to me. I just wanted to state that early on because I'll probably be preaching to the choir all throughout my playthrough of this game. :P

Now I have a question, which I want to ask while I'm still this early in the game. To start... I kind of... missed the Lunar Staff that you were referring to earlier, E-K. I'm a bit annoyed with myself because, considering how hard this game will probably be, I can't be making mistakes like that again. Will I get the chance to go back to earlier areas in the near future, such as the first part of the village as well as the temple from Act I, so that I can pick it up? If not, do you think it would be best if I just start the game over again and make sure I get that staff before getting too far?

The Lunar Staff is not available until Chapter 4 in Sigma. It's only unlocked from the start in Black. :)

Yeah, my bad Talon. I forgot that Hayashit saw fit to change the placement of the Lunar Staff for no reason (at least on Normal difficulty). It's really useful for that fight. But don't worry, you can still use the strategy that I told you about with the Dragon Sword instead. Just keep in mind that it has a shorter attack range than the staff, so you'll have to let enemies get a bit closer to connect with a UT.

And yes, I love how the challenge in this game is by design rather than cheap enemies or bad controls, something that Team Ninja forgot after Itagaki left. I also died a shit-ton on my first playthrough, but rather than get frustrated and quit, I was usually just compelled to come back for more, and keep trying again until I got it right. Very few games these days can perfectly craft that intense but still fun and rewarding level of challenge.

The best part is that on replays, you can easily brush off sections that beat the crap out of you on your first playthrough like they are nothing, and wonder how you ever found them hard to begin with. That happened to me when I just replayed NGB on Normal for fun a few years ago, a game that I had already beat on Master Ninja. :thumbup:

No problem. I'm just glad I didn't miss it. :P

Another thing I really like is that the enemies in the game seem really smart. I'm not sure how smart they are compared to enemies from other hack and slash games, but the AI for them seems especially good as if they were actually being controlled by a real player!

Also, whenever I die multiple times in a row, on the Game Over screen it will occasionally ask me if I want to abandon the ways of the ninja. Is that a recommendation to switch over to easy mode? If I were to name a tiny nitpick I have with the game so far, that would be the only one, if only because when I die I have a habit of repeatedly hitting the X button to get past the Game Over screen, but I have to be careful to avoid not saying "Yes" to abandoning the ways of the ninja. And I'm going to play through this game on nothing less than Normal difficulty. :P

Heh, I played II on Ninja Dog and enjoyed it.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on May 14, 2015, 08:21:16 PM
Also, whenever I die multiple times in a row, on the Game Over screen it will occasionally ask me if I want to abandon the ways of the ninja. Is that a recommendation to switch over to easy mode? If I were to name a tiny nitpick I have with the game so far, that would be the only one, if only because when I die I have a habit of repeatedly hitting the X button to get past the Game Over screen, but I have to be careful to avoid not saying "Yes" to abandoning the ways of the ninja. And I'm going to play through this game on nothing less than Normal difficulty. :P

Hayashit really wants you to take the easy way out.

I need to pick up a retail copy of Black someday.

That particular feature only comes up during the first level in NGB, and was copied directly from that very same feature from the first Devil May Cry game. After you clear the first level, it never asks you again no matter how many times that you die, since the logic is that clearly you either don't want or need to switch to easy (Ninja Dog) mode by that point. Hayashit clearly couldn't comprehend this concept, and thus fixed it so that the game would keep pestering you about this at challenging sections no matter how far you get.

So between constantly asking you to abandon the ways of the ninja, and moving the Lunar Staff, I'm already starting to see why you guys don't like Yosuke Hayashi. :P

Also, taking the discussion to the 2D games for a moment, I recently learned about the SNES remakes of the NG trilogy. Are those good?

The Sigma 1 changes are stupid but not particularly egregious. It's inferior to Black, sure, but nothing like what Team Ninja Dog did with Sigma 2 and NG3...

I've only played the emulated version of those. Sometimes the controls are unresponsive (but rarely) and it uses the Japanese version of NG3 with regular health damage and unlimited continues, but the game also has some inexplicable lag issues in some sections that weren't present in the original. So, they aren't perfect ports, but aside from a few minor changes and set-backs, they are the same exact games and perfectly playable.

Sigma 1 had a few positive changes:

-Better graphics and lighting (obviously)
-The ability to shoot your bow from mid-air
-Running on water is simplified
-Adds the Dragon's Claw and Tiger's Fang as a new weapon

Every other change or addition is either pointless or serves to only make the game feel inferior to Black. Aside from the Rachael missions, though, it's still a great game and mostly follows the original version.

Also, it inexplicably removes the two coolest unlockable alternate costumes from NGB.

I'm in the middle of the third chapter, the airship, and just conquered one of the most fun parts of the game so far that I've experienced. It's a giant room where you face wave after wave of enemies. I love the combat in this game and found that part to be really exhilarating. Seriously, I spent over half an hour on that room, constantly trying to beat it and constantly failing. But I ultimately came out on top and it felt so good. :thumbup:

Oh, quick note: make sure that you grab all 3 Golden Scarabs on the airship before completing the chapter (unless Hayashit changed the locations of those as well), since this is one of the few areas in the game that you can't go back to once you complete it. It's not too big a deal, though, if you don't really care about getting 100% completion, but the reward for collecting all 50 of them is pretty cool.

As for that airship section, are you talking about the bit where you are turning the crank to extend the bridge while waves of enemies attack you, or where you have to descend in an elevator and fight waves of enemies in different rooms around the command deck?

Either way, it's a really cool level aesthetically, and a fun way to introduce you to the industrial theme of the Vigoor Empire.

Speaking of large waves of enemies, you should be aware that there are certain sections in the game where it seems like endless waves of enemies keep spawning in certain rooms. If this happens, it's called a Fiend challenge, and that means that it's optional to complete, or you can skip it and move on. These do however yield a reward upon completion, and you earn a ton of currency just for all of the enemies that you kill, so it is worth completting the easier ones like the ones with the Pill Bug or Wasp demons. Stuff with ninjas or bigger enemies will be considerably harder to complete, though, and aren't worth the effort on your first run through, as they are meant for more experienced players.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 17, 2015, 07:04:55 PM
Oh, quick note: make sure that you grab all 3 Golden Scarabs on the airship before completing the chapter (unless Hayashit changed the locations of those as well), since this is one of the few areas in the game that you can't go back to once you complete it. It's not too big a deal, though, if you don't really care about getting 100% completion, but the reward for collecting all 50 of them is pretty cool.

Thanks for letting me know. I don't think I've seen any yet but I'll try to find them.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 17, 2015, 07:04:55 PMAs for that airship section, are you talking about the bit where you are turning the crank to extend the bridge while waves of enemies attack you, or where you have to descend in an elevator and fight waves of enemies in different rooms around the command deck?

Either way, it's a really cool level aesthetically, and a fun way to introduce you to the industrial theme of the Vigoor Empire.

It was shortly after the bit where I had to turn the crank. It was a big square room with a bunch of crates in the back, and enemies were leaping through the windows non-stop. It was a lot of fun. Every time I died, I felt less frustrated, and more good about how I could tell I was slowly getting better and better. :D

One thing I think I need to make improvement on is that I haven't yet found many good uses for the bow and charge-up moves. This is because the combat is so fast paced that, during battles, I can never find ways to effectively pull off slower attacks. There have been a few moments where I used the charge up moves, but with the bow I only found one moment I was able to use it well (it was a section in the airship where I had to kill two enemies that were far away). I imagine when I get better I will find better ways to utilize these strengths, though.

The bow is really only meant for long-range kills, shooting switches to activate something (exactly like in Zelda), and certain boss fights. It's not really meant to be used for regular combat with normal enemies, so don't worry about that too much. The shurikens are useful for stunning enemies, canceling out of certain attacks (an advanced mechanic that you don't need to worry about at all on Normal difficulty), and killing bats quickly.

With the charge-up moves (UTs), just reference my earlier post explaining how that mechanic works. Maybe I could also see if there is a tutorial video to link to. I'm all for having you discover stuff on your own, but that one aspect of combat comes in really handy.

As for the Golden Scarabs, just look up the location of the ones on the airship online. Most of the other ones are in places that you can access at multiple points throughout the game, but you only get one chance to grab the ones on the airship.

I really like the Dragon Claw and Tiger Fang swords. :D

I also got the Lunar Staff and nunchucks, but I especially love those swords.

The Dragon's Claw and Tiger's Fang was one of the few good additions that Sigma made. That said, the NG2/S2 version of that weapon is far better and more versatile.

The Lunar Staff is one of the most useful weapons in either of the first two NG games if you know how to use it properly.

Also, have you gotten around to upgrading any of your weapons yet, Talon? If I were you, I'd put priority on leveling up the Dragon Sword over other weapons, and then put your resources toward other stuff.

I'm not sure where you're at in the game right now, but if you've made it to Pleasure Street (the location of Han's Bar), then you can find the Windmill Shuriken (a weapon from the NES games) hidden in an alley located right next to the bar. In order to get to it you'll have to think about Ayane's clue about following a certain color.

Sorry I haven't posted here in a while. I meant to do so sooner, but I haven't had a huge amount of playtime with this game. Partially for that reason, I'm still on Chapter 4. However, another reason I'm still on this chapter is because of the Black Ninja Clan. I've gotten better at fighting them, but sometimes they will still annhiliate me. I generally can fight them pretty well, but it seems like, when I make a mistake, it can easily cost me my entire life meter. They almost always appear in groups of three, which is the main reason I die against them.

As for upgrading, I recently upgraded the Dragon Sword. I'm wondering since you say I should focus on upgrading it: is it the best weapon in the game?

More like it's the easiest weapon in the game to use for newcomers. The other weapons can be useful, but require you to adjust your play-style somewhat, and on your first run through the Dragon Sword is the best possible crutch to rely on, since it has a few simple but powerful combos that are very useful and relatively easy to learn, and it also has the Flying Swallow, the most exploitable move in the game.

As for the Black Spider Ninjas, the Izuna Drop and the Guillotine Throw are the best moves to use on them, assuming that you have either of those technique scrolls. Be glad you aren't playing NG2, where they outright spam Incendiary Shurikens on you. :sweat:

I probably used the flying swallow more than anything else in that game.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on May 22, 2015, 04:09:34 PM
More like it's the easiest weapon in the game to use for newcomers. The other weapons can be useful, but require you to adjust your play-style somewhat, and on your first run through the Dragon Sword is the best possible crutch to rely on, since it has a few simple but powerful combos that are very useful and relatively easy to learn, and it also has the Flying Swallow, the most exploitable move in the game.

As for the Black Spider Ninjas, the Izuna Drop and the Guillotine Throw are the best moves to use on them, assuming that you have either of those technique scrolls. Be glad you aren't playing NG2, where they outright spam Incendiary Shurikens on you. :sweat:

As much as I love using the Dragon's Claw and Tiger's Fang, I do find myself having the best luck using the Dragon Sword. The Lunar also seems good but a bit harder to use, and its base damage feels a bit weaker than the Dragon Sword (might be wrong there, though).

About those moves you mentioned, I do admit that I don't yet really know the names of all the attacks I have yet. Like, I'd know what they look like, but right now I can't quite remember some of the move names. Also, those Incendiary Shurikens have been a pain, though I'm sure they are worse in 2. :P

Well, keep in mind that the damage of of each weapon increases when you upgrade it, including the Lunar Staff.

As for the Izuna Drop, you can only use it when you acquire the technique scroll for it, which you can either find in Tairon or which you can buy from Muramasa if you miss it. The combo itself is: STSSST, and you have to make sure to only tap (and not hold) the triangle button the first time that you press it in the combo, so that Ryu jumps up with the enemy when he launches them. If you're timing is off then he'll just do a regular launch attack where he stays on the ground. If you pull the attack off successfully, it'll look like this:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview7%2F20140424%2F5023710%2Fizuna-drop-o.gif&hash=7458ece606e3591acf5b62749ba3fcdb238ec199)

Dear God is that awesome.

That? That's nothing compared to doing it from the top of the clock tower in the second game.

Cause for concern?

Quote from: http://jp.jnocnews.jp/news/show.aspx?id=54369Itagaki gave an interview to People's Daily Overseas Edition Japan Monthly, and said some pretty funny things. To note, this is a Japanese edition of a China newspaper, so keep in mind that his comments are likely intended to be for readers who have an interest in China-centric news.

When asked about the future of Valhalla Studios, he said that they're currently committed to finishing Devil's Third on WiiU, but after it ships, they'll be developing mobile games. He goes on to talk about mobile gaming culture in China, and how it is a huge market which has a strong social culture. He hopes to tie-in with Chinese companies in future to take full advantage of the growing market there.

Of course, this doesn't mean they're going to only make mobile games after Devil's Third, so it's probably nothing to worry about. Still makes my skin crawl, though.

There's a lot of money to be made in the mobile games market, and those types of games are especially more beneficial to small companies since they cost relatively little to make. That said, I can't see Itagaki outright abandoning the development of games on consoles. I think that VGS as a company will make mobile games to earn some much needed money to stay afloat, but I don't interpret that as meaning that they won't still make real games as well.

The fact that Itagaki has never brought up mobile gaming in any English interviews that he's done is a pretty good sign of that.

It might have something to do with all the work that went into Devil's Third that they might never make back. I don't blame them for wanting to make some obvious money.

That said, I'm sure console games are still on the table. This E3 will be very interesting indeed.

Even Insomniac is doing mobile games now, presumably to make some quick cash since their major console releases don't sell as well anymore. It's a smart business strategy, certainly, but that quote almost reads like they're going all in on phones like Konami.

Nowhere in the translation does it say that Itagaki and VGS will solely be making mobile games after Devil's Third. Yet if you Google this, literally every article reads with the headline that VGS is leaving console development for good to focus on mobile games, despite nothing like that being even remotely hinted at.

This is why I despie video game journalists.

Well, when you assume, you

Their first IP: Ninja Garden.

So one of the cords for my PS3 no longer works. We frequently transport that console around my house, so I think constantly plugging and unplugging it wore down that cord. This means my playthrough of Ninja Gaiden is going to have to be delayed. I'm not pleased. :burn:

Well, since DT is apparently terrible, there goes my last hope at even a great spiritual successor to Ninja Gaiden. I do have a strong feeling that this game's failure has way more to do with other behind-the-scenes factors than with VGS having any lack of talent as a development team.

But still, the likelihood that they'll ever get a chance to make a new console game has probably just gone down the drain.

Meanwhile, Team Ninja actually has decent resources and competent programmers at their disposal, but nobody competent enough to lead such a development team.

In the deep pockets of my inner mind, I shall hold a burial and funeral service for the essence of Ninja Gaiden and any chance that it had at a future.

The series and all that it once stood for is no more and shall never be again. And that makes me sad. :(

I'm reading that the Devil's Third previously in development at THQ was almost completely scrapped last year when they had to switch engines. Apparently, they thought it would be easy to convert everything over to UE3, but it wasn't. This left them with a little over a year to rebuild the entire game (which, by all accounts, is huge) from scratch on a console that is notoriously more difficult to develop for than its contemporaries. Also, it seems to me like Nintendo probably never really cared much for DT even in its original form, and didn't give VGS much money to "finish" it. Suddenly the game's badness makes a lot more sense.

This sucks. Absolutely no one is even making a spiritual Ninja Gaiden, much less a good one. It was one of my favorite series so this really sucks.

Metal Gear Rising, though not especially similar to the first two games, is probably the closest we'll ever get to a proper Ninja Gaiden 3. :cry:

Some Devil's Third gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW0EHen1p1w

To be honest, it doesn't really seem that bad to me. Certainly not "Itagaki's next masterpiece" or whatever, but I've seen much worse. It just looks like a low budget game with a troubled development cycle.

Some of the textures look laughably bad (but once again, development hell), yet I wouldn't say that it looks broken or unplayable.

At worst, it's probably Aliens: Colonial Marines levels of bad. As in playable, but not fun. That said, I'll wait for impressions from Itagaki-fans to see if this game might have some redeeming qualities.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defunctgames.com%2Fpic%2Fmagazines%2Fegm%2Fegm37.jpg&hash=0981a1d5788f8a3ebd2f4c0b0e73cfdb44f40d14)

I still want my 16-bit NG4, guys.

So many great previews at one time. :'( can we get gaming back to that state?

According to EA, none of those games exist. Also the Strider 2 in the magazine is not the real Strider 2 that came out years later. It's the unofficial licensed sequel that was quite crap.

But yeah, a DLC sidescrolling platformer with either hand-drawn goodness like Muramasa meets A Boy & His Blob, or a 2.5D game like Klonoa meets Hard Corps Uprising, would be great. I still can't believe I still have to ask for this so many years after Mega Man 9. How has this not happened yet?

At this point, their best way to build good will is a 2D Ninja Gaiden IV either by WayForward or co-developed with someone like Inticreates. At this point, a 3D NG4 would be a very hard sell.

I thought you were talking about why they weren't making a Strider like that for a second. I want to play the last Strider. I liked the demo.

I haven't gotten around to the new Strider yet. I haven't heard much about it, either. I assume it must be at least decent.

All I know about it is my brother has it and likes it. Heh.

Devil's Third will be released by Nintendo of America for Wii U. There will also be a free-to-play multiplayer-only PC version published by VGS themselves. http://www.valhallagamestudios.com/en/company/release/20150721.pdf

Well, at least I might be able to try it in some capacity.

Maybe Nintendo is just really good at cutting trailers, but this actually looks like a lot of fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuV_9zpKMZQ

Well, regardless of the game's quality, you can definitely see how there's a good game in there, and that had Itagaki been able to realize his true vision of the game, it would be absolutely amazing. As it stands, the gameplay that I've seen recently doesn't look very polished, but it also doesn't look quite as terrible as some critics suggest, either.Well, regardless of the game's quality, you can definitely see how there's a good game in there, and that had Itagaki been able to realize his true vision of the game, it would be absolutely amazing. As it stands, the gameplay that I've seen recently doesn't look very polished, but it also doesn't look quite as terrible as some critics suggest, either.

This is probably the closest thing that I've seen to a positive preview of this game so far: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/07/video_summing_up_the_good_and_bad_of_devils_third

It still has a bunch of negative points about the game, but hey, at least they say that it's challenging in a fair way.

Team Ninja just released a trailer for their next major game, Ni-Oh:

https://youtu.be/IvfGYXIOems

A brief bit of history: This game was actually in planning for a LONG time. I mean to say that this was something that TN had in mind back when Itagaki was still the head developer.

Watching the trailer, there isn't a whole lot to go on, but....it honestly looks pretty good, IMO. Sort of like Ninja Gaiden meets Dark Souls/Bloodborne, with a Japanese horror aesthetic mixed in.

The problem? Well, Team Ninja hasn't exactly been on their A-game since the post-Itagaki era. Metroid: Other M was controversial, to say the least, NG3 was a tragedy, and while I've heard that DOA5 is good, the shameless milking of that game has not exactly helped to restore my good will with the developer. So, I'm naturally very skeptical. Had this trailer come out off the heels of NG2, though, I probably would've been stoked.

Yet, I never wanted to hate on the team to begin with, and there's a part of me that desperately wants them to return to form, even without Itagaki. For that reason, I'm cautiously optimistic for this game. I know that at the very least, it's something that is a passion project for them given how long they were planning it for. While it's too short to judge the trailer, this just looks like it's headed in the right direction, at least conceptually. It also has a very interesting visual style, and I'd like to see more of it. I'm praying for this game to be good. I really want a return to the Team Ninja that I used to know and love.

Looking at all of the positive feedback and excitement from people online, it looks like I'm not the only one who sees promise in this game.

This is drawing the attention of NG, Souls, and Onimusha fans from everywhere. I even saw one commentor speculate that the Team Ninja that made NGB was secretly working on this game for ten tears (it was originally announced in 2005, FTR), and that they passed the development of all of their other projects until now to smaller "B" and "C" teams, which is absurd, but also a hilarious thought. :lol:

It looks really good!

If it's as good as it looks, I'll forgive Hayashit for NG3, stop calling the developer Team Ninja Dog, and also stop calling him Hayashit....well, I can promise the first two, anyways.

It really does feel like Team Ninja are trying their best this time. You motherfuckers actually have me pulling for you to redeem yourselves. Please don't let me down again. :thinkin:

On another note, people have pointed this out, but the main character resembles the guy from The Witcher series.

Also, the original concept for this game was based on an unfinished script for "Akira Kurosawa's Oni," which is a fucking inspired concept. I'm not sure if that's still the case, but I really hope that it is.

That looks pretty damn good. I thought it was going to be more of a samurai vs samurai type of game until the monster started flashing on the screen. :D I hope Tecmo doesn't fuck this up..

People have been nicknaming this game "Samurai Gaiden" too, lol. :lol:

 :D I'd certainly play that. It also reminds me of how criminal it is that prime Team Ninja never did a Rurouni Kenshin game.

Well, it would've had to be a prequel to the main series from back when Kenshin was a killer, since Team Ninja's action games tend to be on the more violent side. But it would've been an awesome game during the mid-2000's.

 :SHOCK: That would have been the best kind of game.

I was shocked to find out how long Ni-Oh has been in development, that it's based on an unfinished Kurosawa film, and that Team Ninja Dog is behind it! It's definitely one of the coolest-looking "new" IPs I've seen recently, and my second most anticipated game from yesterday's Sony conference after the Yakuza 1 remake.

I knew you'd be excited about the Yakuza remake.

It's funny to think that I first heard about it as a PS3 launch title. :D

Also, Foggle, did you know that this game was originally going to be a movie tie-in? The movie was going to be directed by Kurosawa's son, but it got scrapped in pre-production.

Back then Omega Force was supposed to develop the game, and it was going to be more like a Musou game. The project was put on hold for still unspecified reasons.

When Koei merged with Tecmo back in 2009, they announced the game again and said that Team Ninja would be developing it. But then we literally didn't hear anything more about it until just recently.

I still need to see more gameplay, but the game just looks so legit even from the short trailer. I really hope that Team Ninja can finally redeem themselves with this. I feel like the actual team itself is still full of talented people, but lacked compotent directing when they made some of their previous games after NG2 came out.

Perhaps they may have learned from their past failures. I won't get my hopes up too high, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed since I'm still waiting for a game that can match or surpass NGB's quality from these guys.

This would be steep expectations

Oh yeah, I'm no fool. I still don't fully trust Team Ninja. I just have a sliver if hope for some of their former glory with the little that I've seen of this game.

On another note, though, the people complaining about the main character not looking Japanese are idiots. If they did the slightest bit of research, they'd know that he's supposed to be half-western by birth. His design is intentional.

Witcher Japan!

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 16, 2015, 08:06:15 PM
Also, Foggle, did you know that this game was originally going to be a movie tie-in? The movie was going to be directed by Kurosawa's son, but it got scrappe in pre-production.

Back then Omega Force was supposed to develop the game, and it was going to be more like a Musou game. The project was put on hold for still unspecified reasons.

Huh. The new version certainly should be more interesting and hopefully better!

The short gameplay segment looked nice. At first, I groaned thinking it would be a Souls clone, but then I saw all the creepy supernatural stuff and got excited. Looks like a long lost PS2-era action-adventure. :joy:

Quote from: gunswordfist on September 16, 2015, 08:04:59 PM
I knew you'd be excited about the Yakuza remake.

:D

Funny thing is that I read some comments that had the opposite opinion of yours. Some people thought it was a historical samurai game at first and then groaned when the supernatural monsters were revealed. :D

The thing is, clearly Team Ninja has experience and knows how to craft satisfyingly deep and nuanced combat, so I expect that they could make more than just a Souls clone, but the question is: will they?

This is awkward..I thought Foggle would be excited about a Souls clone.

Quote from: gunswordfist on September 16, 2015, 08:28:37 PM
This is awkward..I thought Foggle would be excited about a Souls clone.

I like the Souls games, but between Dark Souls 2, Lords of the Fallen, Bloodborne, next year's Dark Souls 3, and the leaked Bloodborne 2, the market is getting oversaturated with releases of their type IMO. Reading more about it, I think Ni-Oh is more of straight character action game than a hardcore action RPG, though, so a similar combat system wouldn't bother me.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 16, 2015, 08:24:26 PM
Funny thing is that I read some comments that had the opposite opinion of yours. Some people thought it was a historical samurai game at first and then groaned when the supernatural monsters were revealed. :D

The thing is, clearly Team Ninja has experience and knows how to craft satisfyingly deep and nuanced combat, so I expect that they could make more than just a Souls clone, but the question is: will they?

I hope it turns out as good as it looks! A historical samurai game could also be great (please localize Yakuza Ishin, Sega/Sony), but I'm a sucker for horror influences in my video games. That trailer was absolutely dripping with style, and looked much more appealing than anything TN's made since NG2.

If this trailer had come out after NG2 was TN's latest game, back when Team Ninja was an awesome developer to me, I would've been hyped beyond belief and blindly handed my money over to them. Given their track record in the past few years, I'm cautiously optimistic, but if this is a good game, then I'll actually be super excited for NG4, and if TN becomes a good developer again, I will know that miracles really exist.

And I love J-horror elements in any game. ;)

So, I didn't have the opportunity to watch the live demo, but someone who did noted the following:

QuoteOhh, more noticable things.

- Flask looks like it'll be used for health or mana or whatever.
- Multiple weapons confirmed.
- More than one summon/buff confirmed too. Different elements it looks like.
- Like a bunch of people have said before, it is very stance based.
- It might actually be limb based as well - aiming for certain limbs and such ala Deep Down's gameplay.

I like what I'm hearing, at least. It sounds like an interesting, in-depth combat system.

Obliteration?  :)

https://youtu.be/yuY6R-iF3XU

My response to Team Ninja:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemecrunch.com%2Fmeme%2FDVN9%2Fgentlemen-you-had-my-curiosity%2Fimage.jpg&hash=dd77d00e08d229ebff88ad73a780103b8760469b)

I'm totally fine with them taking inspiration from Dark Souls for the gameplay style, but adding their own spin to it with a completely different combat system (something they've proven that they can execute extremely well).

Remember, Ninja Gaiden basically took inspiration from Devil May Cry, and it's my favorite game ever. Not saying that I now suddenly trust modern Team Ninja, but I am perfectly fine with the direction that they are going in with this game. Clearly it's no button-masher, and unlike NG3, the combat actually looks skill-based, versatile, and fair.

Samurai Souls Musha Gaiden is now on my radar.

It looks like they are going for a Dark Souls feel with how the enemies look slower (still faster than souls though) and it looks like the game has its on equivalent of the bonfire.

I'm not sure if this is worth anything, but Shuhei Yoshida (President of Sony Computer Entertainment) said that Nioh is his most anticipated third party PS4 exclusive:

http://www.vgtime.com/article/4510485.jhtml

In general, this game is getting a lot of positive hype from both fans and media that fall into the demographic that like hardcore hack n' slash games like Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha, as well as the Souls RPGs.

This game still hasn't had that much revealed about it, but going by the gameplay demo, it really does look up my alley as well. Can fortune be kind to me for once? Is it possible that Team Ninja is starting to get back on track? I can only dream....

Dreaming right with you..

Hayashi redeemed?

Well, it hasn't been revealed yet if he's directing this or just producing it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's him.

It seems Nintendo of America printed less than 1000 retail copies of Devil's Third. It's already sold out everywhere and probably won't be coming back. Some people are predicting that Itagaki will never be able to direct a traditional home console game again.

I'm sorry, E-K. :'(

Well, I wasn't expecting it to really do well after the bad reception (though I've heard from even some non-Itagaki fans that the multi-player is legitimately fun).

As for Itagaki never directing a home console games again, the people claiming that he won't are mostly ignorant haters. Whether he does or not is really up to him. One bad game that went through development hell from a publisher going under doesn't undo over a decade of critically and financially successful games from the rest of his career.

I mean, the greatness of Ninja Gaiden 1/2 and the early DOA games will never be erased, but the game industry (especially AAA) is cold and heartless, and I feel like Itagaki might have a hard time finding funding for titles in the future. Most of my favorite niche action games get made out of luck more than anything - Platinum sustains themselves off of contract work, and thus will probably never go out of business or be particularly upscale, Grasshopper used to make a lot of fun titles for every publisher imaginable but might as well have closed down after getting bought by GungHo, Drakengard/Nier sequels only exist because Yoko Taro is friends with the higher-ups at Square Enix, etc. Mikami was able to bounce back after both God Hand and Vanquish bombed (though the latter was at least critically acclaimed), so Itagaki probably still has a chance with his similar clout, but considering how only Nintendo was willing to publish DT, and they basically sent it out to die, I'm worried that this really might be the end for him. Plus, Valhalla Games is apparently getting sued by the film studio Valhalla for copyright infringement. :(

I doubt that lawsuit will pan out.

As for making games, I'm willing to bet that he could get a smaller-budget game funded via Kickstarter and then work his way up from there.

That's true. I'd Kickstart an Itagaki Ninja Gaiden-like in a heartbeat.

At any rate, VGS is still trying to support DT's online multiplayer, so apparently a small but dedicated user-base still exists for it.

Hopefully the company can stay afloat, though, and start on a new project by 2017 for consoles and/or PC.

Devil's Third's multiplayer service will be discontinued at the end of the year. http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16983/session/L3RpbWUvMTQ2NjY1NjYyMC9zaWQvclc2c0VLVG0%3D

That didn't last long...

That's only on Nintendo, though. The PC version is still there, and (apparently) has a small but dedicated community....in Russia.

Yeah, any way you look at it, the game is a failure, but it's still not quite dead yet.

In Soviet Russia, game plays you!

TS17 finally attempts to play through Devil's Third. The result is pretty funny: https://youtu.be/Wf7GuidGW4k

God, this game looks bad... but in an extremely amusing way. Might be worth a playthrough if copies ever become super cheap. Video is very funny; also, I love TS17's voice.

Part 2 is up: http://youtu.be/71MPjc_62zQ

This may be the most hilarious playthrough series that I've seen for any game on YouTube. :D

Quote from: Foggle on July 28, 2016, 11:03:42 PMGod, this game looks bad... but in an extremely amusing way. Might be worth a playthrough if copies ever become super cheap. Video is very funny; also, I love TS17's voice.

Yeah, his accent has always had a strange appeal to me. In general I just love his commentary which balances out good explanations of strategies on how to get better at tough games with great insight into what works and doesn't work about the types of games that he covers, and with a healthy dose of humor thrown in. It also helps that TS17's opinions on gaming tend to line up a lot with my own.

So while opinions vary somewhat, all of the early reported reviews for Nioh so far have been positive. Whether people prefer the Souls games or not, the unanimous points of praise for this game seems to be for its "extremely challenging but fair" gameplay and it's "deep and intricate" combat system. While I don't put much stock in game journalism anymore, the fact that various YouTube game reviewers whos' opinions I actually have some faith in (including people like The Gaming Brit who has a taste in gaming that's very similar to my own) have spoken rather highly of all of the demos so far gives me a lot of hope and anticipation for this game next week.

Am I dreaming, or has Team Ninja finally made a return to form after nearly a decade of churning out disappointing garbage?

I played the "Last Chance Demo" for Nioh a few weeks ago and loved it.  I'm not a huge Souls guy, but something about the game really clicked with me.  Between my Nintendo Switch pre-order and various other purchases, I'm probably going to hold off on buying more games for a few months, but Nioh is definitely something I want to pick up at some point.

I only played the Alpha demo, and while it was really rough, it was certainly far better than anything Team Ninja's released since Ninja Gaiden 2. If they tightened that up, I can definitely see it being one of the best games this year. Unfortunately, all my gaming money is about to be blown on Nier Automata, Yooka-Laylee, and Persona 5, but I hope to get Nioh sometime around my birthday in June. :)

I really can't stress enough how happy this game makes me. I thought that the glory days of Team Ninja were long dead. When this game was first announced to be out of development hell and showed off some new footage, it perked my interest, but I still had rather low expectations for it. After the Alpha demo came out and people had mixed but still a fairly positive reaction to it, I was a bit more curious, but still cautious about expecting much. Then the Beta came out and people were suddenly starting to give the game a lot of positive buzz. It became apparent that Team Ninja really listened to feedback and gave the game a huge overhaul in order to perfect the mechanics as best as possible. And now that I've finally had a reasonable amount of time to play through a chunk of the game, I can honestly say that it's definitely Team Ninja at their best effort once again. The mechanics are intricate, nuanced, and most importantly fun, but more importantly, you can tell that this is a game which they truly believed in as a development team and had a lot of fun making, especially with all of the in-jokes, Easter Eggs, and fun secrets literally scattered everywhere throughout the game. In general, you can tell that a ton of thought and love was put into every single aspect of this game's design, and for that reason it's on par with the best of the best, IMO.

The NES games are getting a definitive release of the soundtracks. (http://bigwax.fr/en/brave-wave)

Quote- project overseen by Keiji Yamagishi, composer of the original NES Ninja Gaiden
- went through a digital restoration process
- recordings are now more crisp and sharp
- Ninja Gaiden The Definitive Soundtrack Volume 1 features 59 tracks, including every song and sound from Ninja Gaiden
- this includes composers Keiji Yamagishi, Mikio Saito, and Ryuichi Nitta
- Ninja Gaiden The Definitive Soundtrack Volume 2 features 59 tracks, covering Ninja Gaiden II and III
- this composers Ryuichi Nitta, Mayuko Okamura, Rika Shigeno, and Kaori Nakabai
- soundtracks are available through streaming, digital download, CD and vinyl
- vinyl will release on or before July 1, 2017
- this version will feature an essay on the game, and an exclusive roundtable interview with developers and composers

My bank account is already running thin as it is. You can't tempt me like this, damnit! :drool:

OK, so I know that this isn't technically a Ninja Gaiden game, but The Messenger (https://youtu.be/DvxRZxKVT58) looks like the closest thing that we'll ever get to a new NES style Ninja Gaiden sequel. It's clearly one big homage to classic NG and other classic action side-scrollers. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for this one.

So is this series dead now? Did 3 really kill it?

Not sure whether you're referring to the classic series or the new ones since the prospect of the third game killing the franchise is common to both iterations of it. :sly:

In all seriousness, though, we're never going to get an official classic-style NG game ever again. KoeiTecmo is just way too boring and predictable of a studio to do something cool like that, even if it would be relatively cheap and quick to make, so long as the developers actually understood how to design good mechanics and levels for a 2D side-scroller. That's why the prospect of this new game which is a clear homage to classic Ninja Gaiden (the creator even stated in an interview that Ninja Gaiden 2 on the NES was his primary influence when it came to designing this game) really excites me. It's the closest thing that we'll ever get to a sequel to that style of games for the series.

As for the 3D action/hack n' slash series, despite NG3 and Yaiba being both critical and financial bombs (and deservedly so), it's doubtful that the series is dead. Team Ninja have stated that they will eventually make an NG4, just that they were taking a break from the series to work on other projects. More than likely we'll be getting Dead or Alive 6 before we get a new Ninja Gaiden game. That said, Nioh is proof that they still have their character action game sensibilities about them, and the huge Ninja Gaiden references and tie-ins with the final DLC shows that the developer is still very interested in sticking with the Ninja Gaiden brand. Just to give off a minor spoiler, one of the side-missions has you fighting one of Ryu Hayabusa's ancestors who's wearing the classic NES Ninja Gaiden armor and wielding the Dragon Sword. Upon defeating him the main theme song to the original NES Ninja Gaiden briefly plays in the background to accompany the victory logo.

So, yeah, we'll probably be getting an NG4 in the 3D series, but not for at least another couple of years.

They're definitely working on something since they finally decided to move on from DoA5. I guess my question would be what kind of style would a Ninja Gaiden 4 be like? With the success of Nioh, and the "love" for stamina bars would that be wanted? Would it even fit in a Ninja Gaiden game?

Personally, the only thing I'd want implemented from Nioh is the ability to customize Ryu. That's it. Maybe item/weapon boxes as well, but in terms of combat / gameplay I feel Ninja Gaiden 2's combat was spot on and I'd rather go back to that. Till this day I still don't think there's been a game made that can actually match NG2's combat (outside of NGB)

And, while I have nothing against demon slaying, I do want to play a Ninja Gaiden where your foes are humans. Overly powerful or something. I sort of role my eyes when it comes to giant demons as boss encounters. Nioh does a great job making figures like Masamune Date feel like an actual threat and I'd like to see more attempts like that.

It's still a toss up weather their next game will be a new DOA or NG. I'd prefer NG myself, but DOA makes them good money whereas the last to NG games severely underperformed. Can't imagine why....:>

That said, we will still get a new NG game eventually. I doubt that it'll have a stamina bar. Team Ninja understand well enough what the difference is between an action game and a Souls game. That said, in addition to the customizable armor pieces, I would personally love to see the stance system make a transition into Ninja Gaiden's brand of combat while also still keeping UTs and OTs.

I'm in complete agreement with you about NG2 though. To this day, I have yet to play an action game of any kind with a better designed combat system. If you could somehow combine that visceral satisfaction with the ingenuity of a stance system, I feel as though it would put the rest of the genre to shame.

I also agree about more human opponents. Even in Nioh, I personally loved that there were more human bosses than Yokai, simply because it's a lot of fun to fight enemies who play by the same rule set as you. In that regard, you can guard-break, parry, launch, and knock-down human enemies and bosses, which is ridiculously fun.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 07, 2018, 08:02:22 PM
That said, we will still get a new NG game eventually. I doubt that it'll have a stamina bar. Team Ninja understand well enough what the difference is between an action game and a Souls game. That said, in addition to the customizable armor pieces, I would personally love to see the stance system make a transition into Ninja Gaiden's brand of combat while also still keeping UTs and OTs.

I'm in complete agreement with you about NG2 though. To this day, I have yet to play an action game of any kind with a better designed combat system. If you could somehow combine that visceral satisfaction with the ingenuity of a stance system, I feel as though it would put the rest of the genre to shame.

I also agree about more human opponents. Even in Nioh, I personally loved that there were more human bosses than Yokai, simply because it's a lot of fun to fight enemies who play by the same rule set as you. In that regard, you can guard-break, parry, launch, and knock-down human enemies and bosses, which is ridiculously fun.

Sold!!!! I didn't even think about changing stances, but it sounds too good to pass up. Each stance has its very own UT/OT.

Edit:

Ninja Gaiden 2's combat is already intuitive as it is, and not to mention, we have to imagine that a new Ninja Gaiden would have weapon changing similar to that of Nioh or perhaps Dante/Vergil in DMC4. I'd say that'd be reaching fighting game levels of depth in combat, and I'm all for it. Perhaps it's time to go open world as well? But I wouldn't know how would that turn out.

"If cocaine was playable, this is it. (https://youtu.be/kjcotB7E6oE)"

                                     -The Gaming Brit Show, 2018

That may just be the most perfect summary of Ninja Gaiden II on the XBOX360 that I've ever heard.

Great video! Ninja Gaiden 2 really is a game made by insane people, and that's why I love it so much. There have certainly been crazier games released since the original 360 version of NG2, but none that were so nonchalant about it. The bullshit parts don't even feel like trolling, just Itagaki screaming for the player to fuck off. Goddamn does it need a proper remaster for modern consoles, or at the very least backwards compatibility on the Xbone.

Yeah, it really goes to show how much the landscape of gaming has changed in just a decade since then. I mean, while the game was ridiculous even back then, it still wasn't that uncommon to have such "gamey" games also be huge AAA titles that were highly anticipated releases. These days that just doesn't happen anymore for mainstream titles.

I'm somewhat different in preference from TGBS in that I do very much prefer the balance and intricate design of the original game, but I also do really appreciate the unrestrained insanity of the sequel. The game gives no fucks and throws everything at you without rhyme or reason, yet while that sounds like a disaster on paper, it strangely works more often than it doesn't.

He said it best when he described this game as the purest translation of a classic NES game to a modern(ish) 3D platform.

So, apparently Team Ninja has admitted that most of the source code for the XBOX/360 versions of the first two Ninja Gaiden games has been lost, which is why they keep re-releasing the Sigma versions:

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/3/25/22350928/ninja-gaiden-master-collection-koei-tecmo-black-game-preservation-data-loss

Guess we can chalk that up to yet another case of the shitty state of game preservation.