CRUNCHYROLL WILL BE STREAMING ALL OF ASHITA NO JOE 2 STARTING AT 6PM EST TODAY! (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2014/03/22/crunchyroll-adds-champion-joe-2-anime-and-gto-taiwan-drama) Free users will get 7 episodes a week, while premium users will have all the episodes from the get go.
This is fantastic news! I'm pumped that the series is now finally going to be able to reach a mass audience of people, and legally! Hopefully CR adds the first series at some point as well.
And you people who haven't started reading/watching AnJ, well, here's some motivation. Go start. Now.
Wow. Its like all of a sudden everyone finally started to take notice of how awesome this series is at the same time that I did. :thumbup:
Are you able to watch 2 without seeing the first?
You can, but I strongly recommend reading part 1 first if you're mot against scans. You'd be robbing yourself of the complete experience, otherwise. That said, AnJ2 is an excellent adaptation of the second half of the manga.
If I can find a way to read it, I will!
Quote from: Avaitor on March 24, 2014, 02:47:24 PM
If I can find a way to read it, I will!
Here. (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/ashita_no_joe/)
Oh cool!
Shame about no first part, though.
Quote from: Avaitor on March 24, 2014, 08:36:56 PM
Yeah, seriously, this is about Ashita no Joe. Why don't you guys talk about that instead?
Well, E-K, Pharass, and I are the only three here who have read/watched the series, and until I finish the last 5 eps of
Joe 2, I don't think we really have anything new to talk about right now.
But can we please stop derailing the topic? It's clear Avaitor just isn't interested in watching
Jojo's atm, and you guys should just leave it at that.
Still no reason to say nobody talks about the show here. And no reason to be a post-deleting narc about it.
Now anyway, I watched the first of Ashita no Joe a while ago. I really liked the ambient tone in the first scene, where Joe's walking across the town. It's like something out of Once Upon a Time in the West. Once I find time, I might read the manga.
When I stop to consider it, Takamori probably had a lot of Western influences when writing this manga. I wouldn't be surprised if One Upon A Time in the West factored in as an influence for him later on in the series (both even came out in 1968, if I'm not mistaken).
I finished
Ashita no Joe 2 on Friday night. I was very pleased.
Spoiler
Of course, Joe knew his body better than anyone else. He knew he was deteriorating from the punch-drunk syndrome. "So what?" Indeed. Joe didn't care about what would happen to him after the match. His only concern was his fight with Jose. Joe fights because he loves boxing, the challenge, and the thrill that can only come from doing his best, pushing himself to the limit against a mighty opponent. Jose offers Joe his shining moment, an ability to match fists with one of the greatest boxers ever, to prove his mettle, to fight the best fight he could ever fight. If that was going to be the end of his career, so be it. He didn't care about what happened after the match, win or lose. So long as he could give his all against the man he respected most, for the sake of those who suffered along his path, and for himself, it just didn't matter.
For some time now I expected Yoko was in love with Joe. Really, with how far she went out of her way to help him, and how much she cared about his well-being, it was clear she had grown attached to him on a level exceeding mere business matters, or even that as a concerned friend. Her confession was a wonderfully powerful moment, since so rarely did she let her emotions get the better with her, and act so distressed at any time in the series. And while she was tempted to run away, avert her eyes from the gruesome spectacle in the ring, she knew she had to go back, and bear through it in order to see what she helped create through to the end. She needed to be there to support Joe. In a rare moment, she does not ask him to throw in the towel, as she usually did in past matches when things got rough. She encourages him to fight on. She understands that Joe has to see this through to the end, and her words gives him a push of energy to carry it on with intensity. I'm not sure if Joe reciprocates her romantic feelings for him, but as his gift to her proved, he certainly was grateful to her and and that she did for him through his career, helping him get to where he is. I feel bad that she had to lose another person she loved, and it's too bad we don't know how she carries herself afterwards, but I'd hope she managed to find happiness and live on for both their sakes.
I loved how pretty much every recurring character in Joe 2 came back to observe Joe and Jose's match. I liked the scene where all the prison inmates were together, talking about how while they've lost their youth and become adults, Joe still has his youth, and Aoyama wistful of those days. And I was happy to see Wolf return the money he borrowed, and his and Joe hanging out at the bar, Gondo looking on, backing out from greeting Joe so to not ruin their moment. That was a brilliant scene. I was happy to see both of them root for Joe in his match, and how at the end of it, Gondo takes his hat off for Joe. A quiet, but profound action of respect for a fallen friend.
I like how, during the fight, we learn more about Joe's life in the past before he met Danpei. How he was a vagabond, an orphaned child who lived life through wit and luck, but shallowly and aimlessly. What would have happened to Joe if he didn't meet Danpei? Would he have just been like that, alone, a drifter wandering about with nothing to do and a deep emptiness? It's hard to think about, since Joe's life was so radically redefined by Danpei and boxing, but those flashbacks, if anything, showed Joe always had one thing. A passion for survival. A willingness to fight against any odds and adversity, using any means possible, in order to win at life. That part about him hasn't changed. Though he has people who care about him now, he is still fighting a solitary battle. It's a battle against his own limits, but a battle all the same. Even if he had to reduce himself to a thoughtless husk motivated only by the fight, it was necessary. He had to make it through the entire fight giving it his best, never once faltering or deteriorating, even at the end.
The flashbacks/visions of Rikishi was good foreshadowing of where this fight would lead Joe to, but they also were just additional motivation for Joe to succeed. After all, as much as this is a fight for himself, it is also a fight motivated by the fate of Rikishi, the man who inspired him to seriously become a boxer, and the man who's death forced him to overcome unbelievable adversity, adversity that lead him to meet Carlos, find a new goal in Jose, and become the fighter he is. So, those were some good scenes.
The fight was incredible. Joe pushed himself to the limit, and by the end, was a pure fighting machine, with determination so fierce it made the reserved Jose completely lose his wits. I enjoyed the return of the cross counter, and triple cross counter in the fight, as it seemed only natural to have Joe's signature moves be utilized in his finest hour. Not to mention the satisfaction in seeing Joe hit Jose that first time, and using his own tricks against him, is insurmountable. But I especially have to love what happened to Joe as the fight progressed. Jose has stayed champion thanks to his foresight to maintain a healthy body, something Joe failed to do. Joe, as usual, doesn't start off at his best in the first rounds, which lulled Jose into a false sense of security. However, once Joe started to gain momentum, standing up and fighting with fierce punches despite his weakened state, and near blindness in his right eye, he became afraid. Joe was willing to sacrifice his body, his life, in order to win the fight. Jose keeps himself healthy exactly because he is afraid of dying and injury. Joe was hanging on purely out of determination in the final rounds; his life was already forfeit, but he showed no signs of struggling. Despite his air of mightiness, Jose was actually weak-hearted as much as he was weak to punches, and that's why, in the heat of things, he snapped out of fear and committed a foul. There was no way he could stay rational against someone as anomalous as Joe. This pushed Jose to fight with all the strength he had to spare as well. This brought out the best in both fighters, which Joe gladly desired. Of course, the consequence is that Jose lost his healthiness; he is withered, bruised, his hair white, and is no doubt psychologically scarred. He may have technically won the fight, but in reality, he completely lost to the fire of Joe's spirit, which burned him up and left him broken. There is no way he'll be able to stay champion anymore, his body as it is. In the end, Joe got what he wanted, but Jose lost everything. It's a sad fate, but of course, one befitting someone who thought he could stay at the top for most of his career, underestimated his opponents, and never suffered a true defeat.
Now, the final scene. I'm going to bungle my thoughts on this. I still don't know how to best describe my feelings about it. It's funny how many series spoiled it for me, yet I didn't even realize yet. It did not in any way affect how powerful that image was, though. Joe Yabuki died with a smile. He burned up his youth in a fiery passion, performed the greatest fight he ever had in his career, and was now but ash. But there was really nothing waiting for Joe after this fight, nothing he wanted at least. His fight with Jose was everything he needed to leave the world happily. Death was by far the best fate for him, rather than being a crippled shell of himself like Carlos became. His body was failing him. As the fight went on he must have been in unbearable pain. But he did not deteriorate. His body lasted him, so he could see it through to the end. He lived and died a boxer in the prime of his strength and youth. I can't see any other fate that would be better. If you ask me, this is a happy ending. Of course, the other characters, Nishi, Danpei, and Yoko will despair and mourn, but Joe Yabuki had no regrets. He was glad to live a fulfilling life as a boxer, and leave the world at his peak. There was nothing left he needed to prove, or had to do in the world. He completely burned up, and was content to leave as pure white ashes.
I will say that there is one, singular thing I did not like about the ending...the usage of "Midnight Blues" when we see the final image of Joe. It may be "blues," but the song felt too upbeat for a powerful, (I would think) quiet and contemplative scene like that. I really think that either of the ending themes would have been more tonally appropriate. Just a nitpick, but something that did kind of rub me wrong.
Ultimately, Ashita no Joe ended as I thought it would as I got closer to the ending, and I was more than pleased with it. It was a strong ending, with a powerful final image, and left me thoroughly satisfied. I can only hope to find more gems like AnJ as I press onwards in polishing off my gargantuan manga and anime backlogs, but it'll be hard to top this series. It's a rarely crafted masterpiece.
Man, I wanted to do a super long post summing up my thoughts on the series, but I was waiting for you to finish it. I'll still address all of your points later on, so expect a really long post, but I agree with almost all of it (and I'd be curlous to now see how you would rate each arc compared to my ratings).
Spoiler
As for the ending insert song, I did actually enjoy Midnight Blues being placed there, since I don't consider it to necessarily be a tragic ending (as you yourself stated). It's actually not a bad song to represent what Joe was feeling at the end. Having said that, I implore you to go onto YouTube and check out this version of the ending from the movie:
http://youtu.be/ExHozD7lpDA
I think that was a much better choice for the ending song, even if I did like Midnight Blues.
Also, while this is ranked as my 2nd favorite anime, it could easily have been my favorite animated series of all time if it had been a complete adaptation of the series, since enjoying this series to its fullest pretty much requires you to have read or watched Part I. Still, it's a great adaptation of what I can pretty much call my favorite manga series that I have ever read, personally.
And yes, now I see those iconic scenes from Cowboy Bebop and TTGL (and maybe you could kind of argue for several scenes in One Piece) in a completely different light. I wonder how many Western anime fans even realize that those are references to Ashits no Joe.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 30, 2014, 11:29:06 AM
Spoiler
As for the ending insert song, I did actually enjoy Midnight Blues being placed there, since I don't consider it to necessarily be a tragic ending (as you yourself stated). It's actually not a bad song, totally, to represent what Joe was feeling at the end. Having said that, I implore you to go onto YouTube and check out this version of the ending from the movie:
http://youtu.be/ExHozD7lpDA
I think that was a much better choice for the ending song, even if I did like Midnight Blues.
I do like that song better. It feels a lot quieter, and reflective than "Midnight Blues" felt to me.
I'll agree that lyrically "Midnight Blues" is fitting for that scene, but it still sounded a little too upbeat (what with the chorus going all YEAH YEAH) in the middle of it among other notes. I just thought that either ending theme would have been equally appropriate and in sound work better with the scene, but that's jut a silly nitpick on my part, since the scene was still very powerful as it was. :D
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 30, 2014, 11:29:06 AM
Also, while this is ranked as my 2nd favorite anime, it could easily have been my favorite animated series of all time if it had been a complete adaptation of the series, since enjoying this series to its fullest pretty much requires you to have read or watched Part I. Still, it's a great adaptation of what I can pretty much call my favorite manga series that I have ever read, personally.
I can agree with your sentiments. If it was an adaption of the entire manga, it could've very well been my favorite series. That said, it's still the most well-written and executed story with well-developed characters I've seen in animated form, which is why it's my second favorite anime and third favorite animated series (I will say that the gap between it and
Maison Ikkoku is small, but I still give the edge to
Joe 2).
Now we can finally do write-ups for the rest of the series. :thumbup:
That said, I know that we're both busy right now, so we don't have to get to those until maybe closer to summer-time.
I just hope that we can get some other people on this board into the series. It really deserves way more recognition in the West. It's series like this that truly baffle me as to how I ever at any point in time used to be impressed by series like Naruto.
Granted that it did help re-ignite my interest in manga and anime back in 2005, but at the time I had no clue of just what a slap in the face it was to all shounen series when there were true gems like Ashita no Joe to draw inspiration from.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 30, 2014, 11:53:46 AM
Now we can finally do write-ups for the rest of the series. :thumbup:
That said, I know that we're both busy right now, so we don't have to get to those until maybe closer to summer-time.
That would be best. I'll have a good amount of free-time starting in May. :)
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 30, 2014, 11:53:46 AM
I just hope that we can get some other people on this board into the series. It really deserves way more recognition in the West. It's series like this that truly baffle me as to how I ever at any point in time used to be impressed by series like Naruto.
Granted that it did help re-ignite my interest in manga and anime back in 2005, but at the time I had no clue of just what a slap in the face it was to all shounen series when there were true gems like Ashita no Joe to draw inspiration from.
In general, there are a lot of classic series that the majority of the U.S. anime fandom doesn't really know about, since it's always about what's new and current (or if it's a well-known legacy series like
Dragon Ball, though believe it or not I know anime fans, my age, in real life who have never watched a lick of any of that franchise). Most people have probably never even heard of AnJ, so hopefully
Joe 2 being put on Crunchyroll will help spread some awareness for it among western anime fans.
I'm just a bit ticked that they couldn't (or wouldn't?) get the rights to air the first anime. I love AnJ2, but it's just simply not going to be nearly as effective without coming into it knowing all of the character history from Part I. It's the equivalent of watching FMP: TSR without having seen the first season or Fumoffu, or seeing Serenity without having seen Firefly (which incidentally is something that I did before going back to watch the series), or The Avengers without having seen the films leading up to it.
Well, the first anime and second anime were produced by different studios, and aired on different networks, so they'd have to deal with a whole other contract in order to get the rights to the first series. Aside from that, they probably felt that the first series showed it's age more than the second one, not to mention they aren't really related to each other since the first anime covers up to the end of the Carlos Rivera arc and has quite a few differences. I can see why they'd go for Joe 2, which is newer, shorter, and features the most acclaimed parts of the series, than the first one, and I can understand their reluctance and difficulties to get both right off the bat. Hopefully, Joe 2 does well enough for them that they pick up the first series as well. As it is, while Joe 2 won't be as effective for people than people who have experienced the story that comes before it, it'll still be accessible enough for people to enjoy it, and I'm hopeful that'll raise it's popularity and recognizability in the western anime fandom.
I doubt it would be very expensive for them to acquire the first anime, though, and saying they aren't related is kind of stretching it, yes, the studios and staff that made them are different, but both share many of the same Seiyuu, and although their is overlap with the Carlos Rivera arc, the 2nd series still references all of the major events from the first series. Also, in Japan, the Part I is just as iconic as Part II, and putting dated animation aside (which you could argue about AnJ2 as well), the first series has aged really well for the most part. It does have some pacing issues, but compared to stuff like DBZ, Bleach, or Naruto, which apparently most people can tolerate just fine, the pacing issues are almost non-existent since at least shit keeps happening in each episode, and you don't spend multiple episodes on what is essentially one really drawn out scene.
Personally, I don't buy it that the first season would be that difficult to acquire, or that there is a good reason to have passed it up and go straight for the second season.
I suppose they just didn't see a need to get the first series, since the second does stand on it's own well-enough. They also don't know whether the series will pull it's weight in streaming hits, since despite it's critical acclaim it's also obscure here, so they probably felt it would be too much of an investment to get both when the series is untested in the west. So, just choosing one, I can see why they went for Joe 2, which is shorter, relatively newer, can be watched without seeing the first series, and has a conclusive ending, than the first series. It may not have been difficult to acquire to first series, but I can think I understand their rationale in getting the second one first on a "business" perspective.
Perhaps, but I just hope that somehow Joe 2 catches on just enough to warrant people looking into the entire series.
So, in a few days, Abarenbou Kishi!! Matsutarou will begin airing for the Spring anime season. What does this have to do with Ashita no Joe? Well, it's based on a very popular shounen manga by Tetsuya Chiba, the very same "artist" of Ashita no Joe, as you can tell by their very similar art-styles (and don't listen to the sources that incorrectly call him the author of AnJ, although he did have some input on the story and characters, from what I understand).
Now, Asaou Takamori had no involvement with this series, so I'm not exactly expecting AnJ levels of quality from it, but in being heavily involved in the making of such a critically-acclaimed classic, I want to give Chiba the benefit of the doubt and check out this adaptation of his series. The only caveat....is that it's being done by Toei animation, the most shameless "corner-cutting" animation company in the business since Hanna-Barbera. That said, since there are no other English translations of this series available, it's all that I have to go on. I'll check it out this weekend and possibly do a brief entry on it for the seasonal clusterfuck if it's at all worth talking about. Here's a promo:
http://youtu.be/lktW3OzxbV4
Yeah, I've known about this show since it was first announced, and have been wary about how this series will turn out ever since I heard Toei's name was attached to it. I'm still going to check out the first episode/s. The preview didn't do much to inspire me with hope for good animation, but the drawings are expressive enough to make it still look interesting. Maybe Toei will treat a classic manga series with more respect and effort than their modern, ongoing stuff. Here's hoping...
The thing that stuck out to me about the trailer is how lively and exuberant Chiba's art-style is, even with the limited animation provided by Toei. It's really a testament to his talent that it can look good even with Toei's cheap-ass animators.
So, I haven't been able to watch Matsutaro yet because no site has uploaded it and I'm not wasting a two-week free trial for Crunchyroll premium access just for it, but judging by the comments, reception is very mixed, which makes me a cautious. I do like the opening, though. It's got a classic, nostalgic feel to it, and definitely stands out amongst the mediocre j-pop most anime openings have got these days.
The problem with mixed reception could either reflect the series possibly being too old-school for some people (and having a slow start), or it could be that Toei just did a shitty job adapting it. While I'm hoping it's the former reason, I'm really suspecting it's the latter. I know that the manga was very popular and well-liked in Japan, and I done doubt Chiba's talent, so I'm really thinking that this is probably another fuck-up from Toei.
Well, most of the negative comments are about Matsutaro being an unlikeable character, which is why I'm concerned. Hopefully someone uploads the episode soon so I can judge it for myself.
I watched it. It's not necessarily bad, but I can understand the comments about Matsutarou being a dick. He literally goes as far as to steal candy from a baby, and then later almost runs over that same baby. Even Joe, in the beginning of AnJ, would never stoop that low. I'm kind of wondering if he's supposed to start out as a jerk and become more likable over time (like Joe did), but either way, he did go a bit too far in this episode.
Overall the series hasn't impressed me with the first episode, but it's also the first episode, so I can kind of understand that since a lot of anime have pretty unremarkable beginnings. I'm going to at least need to see a few more episodes to see if this series is worth my time. In the meanwhile, I'll give Chiba the benefit of the doubt and just blame Toei for any shortcomings of this series because it's convenient, and because I have no access to the original manga. That said, it's definitely no AnJ, but I wasn't really expecting that, either.
What does work in the show's favor is Chiba's lively art-style. Toei's cheap animation, however, kind of sucks the fun out of that.
I also just watched the episode, and, um, yeah, Matsutaro is a pretty unlikeable character right now. Like, there were no evident redeeming qualities about him in this episode (it's kind of hard not to be pissed off at him for almost running over his own baby sibling), and I generally don't care for these over-the-top women obsessed kind of characters either. I did like how there was not any wrestling whatsoever in this episode, instead establishing Matsutaro's character, like Ashita no Joe....yet unlike Joe, nothing about Matsutaro presented here makes me really that interested in exploring who he is. It's also kind of disconcerting to me that the episode ends with Matsutaro thrown into jail. I hope this doesn't re-tread the Juvenile Prison arc of AnJ. Otherwise, things happened kind of slowly in the first episode and nothing that exciting happened or made me like the characters, so it was a pretty mediocre beginning to the series, in my opinion.
As for the animation/production values, well, the animation is cheap as expected, but I'll say for the most part Toei did a good job directing the episode in a way that doesn't call attention to it. Of course....this is the first episode, which means that the production values will slowly start to decrease from here on out, so it inevitably will look worse down the line. At least Chiba's art gives the show an easily expressive style. Matsutaro had some great expressions here.
I do want to give this show another episode or two to see if the story picks up and Matsutaro becomes a more likable protagonist, but I can't say I found this episode very good. Of course, the manga couldn't have run for 36 volumes without having merit to it, so it I'd hope it becomes better. I guess we'll have to see.
I think what made Joe less offensive than Matsutaro (aside from not carelessly almost killing a baby, let alone his own sibling, without any regard for their lives whatsoever) is that he was really more of a neutral personality rather than an oppressive one. Matsutaro is outright mean to people for no reason whatsoever. Joe, on the other hand, had more of a "if you don't fuck around with me, I won't fuck you up" kind of attitude about him. He did rough up some kids in the beginning as well, but the difference here is that these kids were old enough to fight, and in fact tried to ambush him and came at him armed with street weapons. Joe has the case of self-defense on his side. On the other hand....Matsutaro almost killed a fucking baby. You can't get anymore innocent than that. There is no comparison. The reaction from his other siblings shouldn't have been a comical one of "you jerk!" It should've been...."WTF? Rot in hell you psychopath!"
In fact, now that I think about it, nothing else in the episode bothered me that much. It wasn't good, but it wasn't necessarily bad either. But this one moment, the more I dwell on it, almost makes Matsutaro irredeemable for me. To be fair, he wasn't the one driving the truck, but he was the one messing around with the driver. Still, it's not so much the fact that the truck almost ran her over, but that Matsutaro didn't even take a moment to acknowledge that which made him come off as so terrible. If it turns out that this is more Toei's doing than Chiba's then it'll only further cement my hate for the company. If it really was Chiba's writing, though, then Takamori must have been shaking his head in disappointment at his former co-worker, at the time.
Would one of you like to write a piece about Matsutaro for the Clusterfuck?
Perhaps we should give CX a shot at a guest entry for once. I'd write something, but now I fear it would be about nothing more than bashing that once scene from the episode that really digests me. Other than that, the premiere was inoffensive and completely unremarkable (as in not stand-out good or bad, and thus kind of boring to write about for me).
Never mind, I just watched it. I was disgusted enough that I think I need to write about this one.
Aw, darn, I guess that means I just wrote a three-page review of Matsutaro for nothing, then. :imnothappy:
Quote from: Cartoon X on April 06, 2014, 12:20:50 AM
Aw, darn, I guess that means I just wrote a three-page review of Matsutaro for nothing, then. :imnothappy:
Give it to us anyway, please.
Just keep in kind that it's not unlike Toei to completely fuck with the source material of good manga. I've never read the original manga since it's not available in English, but I'd like to think it's persisted as a popular series in Japan since the 70's for a reason. Then again....this is Japan. Still, just keep in mind that this in no way reflects the quality of Chiba's most famous series, Ashita no Joe (partly being because he didn't actually write it, but just illustrated it). I'd still like to think that he has a better writing sense than that by having worked with one of Japan's greatest minds in comic book fiction, but there's no way I'll ever know that unless the manga was ever available in English.
All I'm saying is....if you're going to roast this series in your write-up, grill Toei instead of Chiba, just because. :sly:
Quote from: Cartoon X on April 06, 2014, 12:20:50 AM
Aw, darn, I guess that means I just wrote a three-page review of Matsutaro for nothing, then. :imnothappy:
Three pages?!? Yeah you're getting your own article for that.
I like to think all of the douchiness from the main character is only because it's from a 70s manga, so changing values could potentially make his actions a bit more charitable for middle-aged viewers than us. Granted, he's still a twat, but it was probably not Toei's best intentions to adapt a series from 1977 without thinking some things through.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on April 06, 2014, 12:23:23 AM
Quote from: Cartoon X on April 06, 2014, 12:20:50 AM
Aw, darn, I guess that means I just wrote a three-page review of Matsutaro for nothing, then. :imnothappy:
Give it to us anyway, please.
Yes.
Okay! :) How should I send it?
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on April 06, 2014, 12:32:16 AM
I like to think all of the douchiness from the main character is only because it's from a 70s manga, so changing values could potentially make his actions a bit more charitable for middle-aged viewers than us. Granted, he's still a twat, but it was probably not Toei's best intentions to adapt a series from 1977 without thinking some things through.
That's really no excuse for Matsutaro's actions, though. Ashita no Joe and Black Jack came from eras where Japan had different values, and they still featured far more likable characters than Matsutaro, even when they were morally gray (especially with Joe in the beginning of the manga). The difference between Joe and Matsutaro is that, even when Joe was a jerky delinquent, he was still an interesting and compelling character. Aside from Matsutaro's horrible and selfish actions....he's pretty bland so far.
Like I said, though, I'll give the series a few more episodes before passing final judgement off on it.
Also, I read a blog where someone questioned why this anime was made, given that sumo wrestling's a dying art in Japan and the year gap from the manga's creation. Since Toei's already making Digimon Avengers, Dalek's favorite PreCure, and Kamen Rider, they're spreading their already languid arms a bit thin.
Quote from: Cartoon X on April 06, 2014, 12:50:25 AM
Okay! :) How should I send it?
Sorry, I missed this. Just PM it to me or one of the other admins and it'll be posted up for you.
I already sent it to Foggle. :)
Cool! Can't wait to read it! :thumbup:
So, getting back to the topic of Ashita no Joe, I was wondering if you wanted to rate the story arcs like how I previously did (you can do it on the manga thread or this one for the anime, it doesn't really matter).
Also, what are some of your favorite moments of the series (remember to put any important plot points and character development under spoiler tags).
For me, personally, the best segment of the entire series was from the ending of Part I to the opening arc of Part II. That isn't to say that the series went downhill in any way at all past that point, but more so that Joe's depression really stuck a cord with me on an emotional level. It's not particularly deep or complex, but the simplicity of it is why it appeals to me so much. His psychological slump is something that he's going through for a very human reason, and these arcs, more than any other in the series, show you just how human of a character Joe Yabuki is.
Other than that, there are a lot of little things that I love which are dispersed throughout this story, but I must give props to the amazing ending. It's easily one of the most classic and highly-referenced endings in any manga or anime series.
Spoiler
After all, how many modern shounen series would have the balls to kill off the main character at the end? You just wouldn't see this in most modern shounen series. And it's not like it's a Shakespearean type tragedy of a death. It fits the tone of the series. I feel as though Joe dying with a smile on his face shows the audience that he is completely satisfied with accomplishing what he set out to do. He essentially leaves the world with absolutely no regrets (for himself, of course). The bitter part of it has more to do with the people who care about him. Obviously both Yoko and Danpei would quit the boxing business for good after this. I would like to hope that Danpei doesn't go back to being a drunk, and that Yoko could still find happiness despite the 2nd man she loved dying in the ring, but the beauty of it is that Takamori leaves it up to the audience to interpret things how they will. At any rate, the fight leading up to Joe's death was suitably climactic, and it almost makes me wish that I were born a Japanese person at the perfect age to read AnJ when it was out just to experience it as it was when it was a currently serialized series. I can't imagine how excited people must've been whenever a new chapter of this series was published.
I'll put up my ratings for the story arcs in the manga thread, since I've experienced more of the story through the manga than the anime.
As for my favorite moments...
Spoiler
The first that comes to mind is the Dragon Kim fight. I liked how initially Joe didn't feel he had it in him beat someone who had struggled through a life of hell, but he came to realize Kim was just making excuses for himself; he had a tragic childhood, yes, but that has nothing to do with how strong he is as a boxer or Joe's ability to beat him. Moreover, Joe realized he already has faced someone who went through hell; Rikishi. No, Rikishi didn't suffer from the trauma of killing his own father or anything, but he starved himself to his breaking point, willingly, purposefully, in order to fight Joe. While Kim had no choice as a kid to starve and live through a hell, Rikishi chose to endure that kind of pain, he sacrificed his own health and the pleasures of eating good food for the sake of fulfilling a promise, and he didn't back down. And it is the fact that Rikishi chose to experience the pain of starvation while Kim was forced that leads Joe to realize Kim isn't as indomitable as he seems, nor does he have the willpower of Rikishi to endure hardships willingly. And while Joe, like Rikishi, worked exhaustingly to reduce his weight to meet the lint, and is willing to get up again and again after taking beatings, Kim, who doesn't have much affinity for boxing and just sees it as a game, lacks that kind of resolve. He may be physically strong, but he lacks the passion for boxing and the ability to endure pain for it's sake like Joe or Rikishi, and inspired by the memory of what Rikishi did for their fight, Joe ultimately is able to overcome Kim. I just really love the idea behind that fight, how it tied in with Joe's weight struggle, messed with his confidence, and how it connected the arc back to Rikishi's struggle with weight loss and his fight with Joe, and that's why it seems to really stick in my mind.
There are other moments I love, obviously. I just don't have it in me to write about them all right now. I will say that Mendoza saying "See you again" to Joe at the end of the Hawaii arc and Joe's happy reaction to finally be acknowledged by him was a memorable scene to me, and was Mendoza's and Joe's first encounter.
To be honest, I actually expected Joe was going to die at the end because of all the build up, because as I was watching the series past the Harimao fight I kept thinking that was really the only natural destination for the series and Joe's character arc. Joe's sole, final goal was fighting his best fight he could with Mendoza, and his weathered body lasted him until he did that, and afterwards, he had nothing left he needed to accomplish, so satisfied with his life's journey, he peacefully, and happily, expired. Basically, I agree with all your points on the ending, and in fact I said the same kind of things earlier in that post where I talked about what I though about the Joe vs. Jose fight and the ending and stuff. I like that it's ambiguous as to how the other characters will move on, but I'd also like to think Danpei continues to train aspiring boxers and Yoko finds happiness and love again, somehow.
I'd say my favorite segment of the series have got to be the events from Joe and Rikishi's official fight (including the build up to it) all the way through the final fight with Carlos. Joe having to deal with his psychological scars and not only just find the resolve to fight again, but be able to overcome the trauma that unconsciously affects his boxing, and just how low his life was at this point as he struggled to return to form, definitely was the most striking part of the series to me as well, but I also loved the satisfaction of seeing him overcome it, and fight a glorious fight with Carlos, a man who was incredibly similar to him and had his same wild spirit and passion for the sport, that both of them could be proud of, really felt like a victory and was an uplifting moment. So, I think I like those parts best because it's a rollercoaster of the highs and lows in Joe's life, with the low being his absolute low and the high being his absolute high (until his fight with Mendoza), and I think it's the part that best encapsulates the greatest strengths of the series and it's characters as well.
Sometime later I think I might make a top ten favorite moments in the series list in the manga thread (say, there's an idea I can do for a few shows/manga...), and then I'll elaborate more on some of the other parts of the series that really made an impression on me.
I've been watching through the first anime for AnJ. Honestly it's a lot better paced than I gave it credit for. As of episode 29, Joe is already taking his licensure exam. The anime does have a lot of animation mistakes (such as incorrect coloring or outfits or backgrounds in certain scenes), but that's pretty much a staple of animation from that time period, and not only does it not hurt the experience, but it even sort of adds to its charm in a crude but amusing sort of way.
Also, as far as favorite moments go, the way that Joe actually attains the right to get his gym and himself licensed is easily on of my favorite parts (and the anime handles it so well). In one regard it shows how clever Joe can be, in how he both uses the business politics of boxing AND the media to his advantage, essentially baiting and manipulating reporters into a story that makes him look good and the higher-ups who denied his gym an official license to be old, corrupt, senile douche-bags (which to be fair they pretty much are) while he comes off as a total bad-ass (which is because he is a total bad-ass). In general, the scene is as bad-ass as it is clever, and is easily among the story's best "fun" moments.
Watched the live-action movie. Here's the thing....AnJ just doesn't translate well into live-action, as it is a manga that relies heavily on its cartoony art-style to make for convincing physics-defying actions and such. Trying to do that in live-action and playing it straight is just silly. Furthermore, trying to condense about 8 or 9 volumes of manga material into a 2 hour film yields exactly the sloppy results you would expect. We get all of the iconic parts of the story and characters without any of the charm or wit that made them so engaging in the first place. Additionally, the movie does an unforgivable thing and screws up Yoko's character, who as you know is one of my favorites. They make her needlessly unlikable for a pretty stupid reason that I won't say because it's still technically a spoiler for the movie (but trust me, it's stupid). I definitely would NOT recommend this movie as a gateway into the series.
Having said that, as a fan, I do have to appreciate the effort. Despite its faults,you can really tell that the people making this film had a lot of respect for the source-material and did the best that they could. It doesn't necessarily redeem the movie in any way, but it does make it an amusing curiosity for hardcore fans. Also, the movie's re-rendition of the original theme song from the first anime is spectacular. I wish I could find a recording of it on YouTube.
I picked up the compilation movie of the first series a few months ago for some random reason.
It's interesting as a historical piece of animation, but don't see myself watching the whole thing. Joe's the sort of classic shounen character that is simultaneously charming yet annoying in his narrow-mided nature.
I did laugh at the possibly unintended homoeroticism vibes, even if I did feel a bit sad about it later on.
Eh, a compilation movie really isn't a good way to judge the series, it shows you tons of scenes out of proper context, and there is a lot more to Joe's character than just being a typical narrow-minded shounen protagonist. On the contrary he's quite clever in many situations, and while his personality isn't the most likable, it makes a lot more sense why he acts like he does when viewing the series as a whole. Watching a compilation movie (which is a form that this series was never intended to be viewed in) just does it no justice. Either way, though, the manga is the best version to go with, IMO. It's my favorite manga for a reason.
Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 13, 2014, 11:42:32 PM
Eh, a compilation movie really isn't a good way to judge the series, it shows you tons of scenes out of proper context, and there is a lot more to Joe's character than just being a typical narrow-minded shounen protagonist. On the contrary he's quite clever in many situations, and while his personality isn't the most likable, it makes a lot more sense why he acts like he does when viewing the series as a whole. Watching a compilation movie (which is a form that this series was never intended to be viewed in) just does it no justice. Either way, though, the manga is the best version to go with, IMO. It's my favorite manga for a reason.
Fair enough. It's not a great idea to completely judge the entire series based on a simple compilation, but it's still a taste of what the story is all about. I've only mentioned it as a point of reference. Admittedly, it's quite possible that a few things might come across differently with a lot more context. Mind you, I did notice that there is a translation project for the TV series. Is there one for the manga as well?
Unoficially, the manga has been completely translated, though the translations for the first few volumes are a bit shaky. For now, that's pretty much the only way to read the series in English, as the prospect of an official release is highly unlikely for any old manga that was not written by Tezuka.
As for the anime, the entire second series is streaming for free on Crunchy Roll. The first anime has been fan-subbed up to episode 71 (which is pretty close to the end of its run), but the pacing of that series may be a bit too slow for most people, hence why I recommend the manga.
It's up to you though, if you ever feel like giving the full series a shot. I can't promise that you'll like it as much as I do, but I can promise that it'll come off more coherently and better written than a very condensed movie version. ;)
I'll just use this old thread to update my thoughts on Magalobox because why the fuck not?
Anyways, it's two for two so far and Junk Dog picking the ring name Joe sent a chill down my spine. I'm really saddened by the fact that not that many people are watching this show. It's easily an anime of the year contender for me and at that would probably make my top 10 list if I still actually did those.
Alright, this week's episode has me convinced that this is in fact set in the same Universe as Ashita no Joe with all of the subtle little hints that go beyond just mere reference. At any rate I'm really loving the animation style and music of this series. I also love how they are handling the kids here as an integral part of the story.
Finally saw the first three episodes of Megalobox. Engaging action and characters, excellent direction and animation, and some catchy and atmospheric music. This is incredible so far. If it keeps this up this is easily going to be one of the year's best. Every piece of this hits the mark.
I especially love how they de-ressed the animation quality and then upscaled it back to HD quality from there to make it feel like authentic 80's style animation. It's a really cool effect.
The music in this show is also superb. I'd seriously consider buying the soundtrack for it if that ever gets released over here.
I'm quite impressed at how well directed and animated this show is. The fight in this episode was intense and paced tightly with just enough hints at where the story is (probably) going to end. The contrast between "Gearless" Joe (also a reference to "Shoeless" Joe) and Yuri's reliance on the highest end tech is a nice touch. I'm definitely also interested in knowing who this new opponent is.
Not dead yet.
There was a character in the manga who briefly appeared in a flashback: a guy formerly trained by Danpei who got kicked out since he had no passion for the sport. This new character seems like he has some past relation to JD's coach in this series, so he could be a combination of that concept while taking characteristics from one of Joe's rivals in the original manga such as Wolf Kanagushi. We'll just have to wait and see.
So I downloaded VRV and started watching the show during my break at work, an episode a day. Holy shit, you guys aren't kidding, it's really good!
I'd say that it works without the nods to AnJ, but let's be real, that's the bulk of the show. I think it's still quite good even if you're unfamiliar, however.
I'm very unfamiliar. The last two episodes really got my in my feels.
Quote from: Avaitor on May 08, 2018, 01:56:46 PMSo I downloaded VRV and started watching the show during my break at work, an episode a day. Holy shit, you guys aren't kidding, it's really good!
I'd say that it works without the nods to AnJ, but let's be real, that's the bulk of the show. I think it's still quite good even if you're unfamiliar, however.
Glad you're enjoying it as much as the rest of us! :joy:
It definitely works as a stand-alone series, which is part of what's so brilliant about it. If you've never read or watched AnJ, you can still be enthralled by this show's excellent story-telling and gorgeous animation and still come out with a completely fulfilling experience that stands on it's own. However, if you're already a fan of the source material, then it can enhance the experience even further, and not just through mere fanservice but also by using certain iconic imagery, names, or quotes from the original manga to add new meaning and depth to certain scenes based on that knowledge. I just can't stress enough how well written this anime is.
I really enjoyed the finale.
Spoiler
Although the ending is a little more serene then I was expecting. I guess I was expecting something more bittersweet like AnJ's ending, but you can also make a case that it wasn't that happy of an ending, just that everyone seems to be doing okay at this point. And I do like seeing Joe alive and well this time, all things considered.
Someone needs to pick this up ASAP, and 1- get it on Toonami and 2- help us get closer to AnJ to be officially released stateside.
Funny enough it hadn't occurred to me that this series was only a single cour long until it ended. I guess I was just that into it. While the ending here doesn't quite have the same emotional punch as its source of inspiration, it was satisfying enough for the sort of story being told here.
It's easily my favorite anime of the year so far, and I'll probably buy the soundtrack for it as well, which is something that I pretty much never do, but this is just too damn good to pass up
I really liked the ending.
Spoiler
It beats doing the same thing as AnJ while still following the core themes of the story. Joe proved himself and can now move on with his life. A happy ending was unexpected, but all their sacrifices paid off. I enjoyed it.
Would be nice to get this airing on TV here. It might finally give a push to giving the original show and manga an official release. We're more than due for it.
Viz got the license. (https://www.toonzone.net/viz-media-gets-two-new-mangas-and-a-new-anime)
I was kind of hoping for FUNimation to get it, but Viz has proven that they can do a good English dub if they at least give enough of a shit about the series.
Anyways, it'll be a major fail if Toonami doesn't manage to snag this one.
This isn't directly related to AnJ, but was anyone aware that the Karate Master anime series (https://www.rightstufanime.com/Karate-Master-DVD) that Discotek released a few years ago is an adaption of an Asaki Takamori manga (and also directed by Osamu Dezaki)? I haven't heard anything about the series, but Takamori's relation to it alone makes me want to buy it out of pure curiosity.
A second season is in production. (http://toonamifaithful.com/megalo-box-2-is-in-production)
Definitely curious. Are we going to see the show's equivalent to Carlos and/or Mendoza in this one?
I wouldn't be surprised if we do. Megalobox's first season definitely took more inspiration from the first half of AnJ than the latter half, so I think we might see the second season bring in the thematic elements of AnJ 2. This second season's premiere window also seems to be lining up with the 40th anniversary of AnJ 2.
On a side note, LumRanmaYasha was present for the announcement at ANYC, since we were covering it as press, and CR ended up using Lum's pic for their Twitter! (https://twitter.com/Crunchyroll/status/1195813562691792896?s=20) ;D
Season 2 trailer. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiJQ7F5mJKA)
Shit, this might top the first season. :zonk: