I was originally going to post this in Marvel Live Action, but I care enough about distinguishing the medium to just make a separate topic for it.
Anyways, I know part of the fun of "What If...?" is supposed to be just allowing bizarre alternate Universe ideas to play out, but as a huge fan of Captain America: The First Avenger (my favorite MCU film), the nitpicky side of my brain was at work the whole time. So stuff like how Howard Stark thought to build an Iron Man-esque suit, and even the fact that it worked as well as it did bothered me a bit. For one thing, he wasn't so buddy-buddy with Steve before the Super Soldier Serum experiment, so I don't buy that he would go that far for him to build a suit exclusively for him to be part of the fight at that point in their relationship. Even putting that aside, Howard Stark was showcased to be kind of hit-and-miss with his less conventional inventions. He couldn't even get a flying car to work, let alone a fully functional flying suit. He also had notable duds in the Agent Carter TV series, and Iron Man 2 also emphasized this point with him being limited with what he could pull off by the technology of his time. I don't quite see how Carter becoming Cap instead of Steve would change his long-established character traits.
That said, putting my ass-hole nitpicky side away, it was fairly enjoyable for what it was. It does look like they will be using the same animation style throughout the whole series, though. While I actually quite liked the animation style myself, this feels like a huge missed opportunity to showcase different animation styles that can express unique artistic visions that fit the tones of each different kind of story, which I would argue is more fitting for an anthology series like this. I'm sure this was done to save on cost and production time, though, as what I'm suggesting would require entirely different animation teams for each individual episode.
Was the squid at the end supposed to be Shuma-Gorath, or an Agents of SHIELD thing?
Thought the first episode was okay, but the premise isn't weird enough to be an interesting What If since we've already seen Peggy lead the Howling Commandos into battle before. Though I'm having a hard time thinking of a cool What If revolving around the first Cap movie's events. Secret Empire's notoriety made "What if Steve joined Hydra?" too noxious for future plots, and too complicated for a 30-minute episode.
Now I liked the second episode a lot more, mostly due to Thanos' new jovial personality and the Black Order having stuff to do this time.
This definitely felt like it's own story rather than a cliff notes version of one of the movies with the main character swapped out.
Heard that the story where Spider-Man mutates into a hideous man-spider was considered for this show but turned down for being too dark, (https://collider.com/what-if-spider-man-story-too-dark-for-marvel/) which sounded confusing since the 90s cartoon adapted that plot. And that was the same 90s cartoon rife with censorship. So that decision's even more confusing in light of this episode, with Hank Pym going insane with grief and murdering all the Avengers out of revenge.
You know, I really liked the Starlord T'Challa episode and found the relationship between him and Yondu and the questions explored about identity and destiny compelling and thought the altered personalities of Thanos and Nebula were really fun. I thought the Captain Carter episode was an ok attempt at commenting on sexism in the military through the thought-question of how the army in the 1940s would react to a female super-soldier, but more than anything just appreciated the supportive relationship between Peggy and Steve and thought it was really sweet and cute. But man, I just thought the latest episode was dumb. The premise of all the Avengers being murdered before they could assemble is interesting, and I thought Hulk being exploded from the inside-out was morbidly funny (though it was kinda a weird censorship choice for him to explode into green gas instead of blood and guts). But the reason for all of it happening just being that Hank Pym went insane over Hope dying was hard to take seriously, but it didn't seem like they were playing it for laughs. :sweat:
Now I liked the latest What If more than the actual Doctor Strange movie. Especially Cumberbatch's performance. He was rather stiff in that film, likely owing to him struggling to do a convincing American accent. But he showed a wider array of emotion here.
The original X-Men: TAS is getting a direct sequel on Disney+.
https://www.thewrap.com/x-men-97-1990s-x-men-animated-series-2023
No better time for a recap. (https://youtu.be/t-K1D8y_Pxs)
The Spectacular Spider-Man is now on Netflix!! :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake: :shakeshakeshake:
https://www.netflix.com/search?q=the%20spectacular%20spider%20man&jbv=70204944
Young Justice's run on Netflix is what opened the door for season 3 to finally happen. I REALLY hope history repeats for the best Spidey cartoon.
Except Sony owns the rights to SSM while Marvel owns the rights to make Spider-Man cartoons, so they'd have to negotiate for anything like that to happen. It's not like YJ where DC owned the rights and the ability to make more of the show. And unless SSM got extremely high views on Netflix, like higher than Stranger Things, or a team of Sony and Disney execs were huge fans and willing to put aside differences, I don't see it in the cards. Unless Disney bought Sony or vice-versa, like how they can make a continuation of the 90s X-Men cartoon because they bought Saban ages ago, but I'd rather that not happen.
And even if all the rights were settled, it's been a while since "Make more Spectacular!" was the loudest voice from the Spider-Man fandom. Now, it's "Make TASM 3!" or "Make Raimi's Spider-Man 4!" I've even seen a few recently say they want a continuation of the MTV show.
Yeah, I think I've mentioned this before, but Greg Weisman is known for being optimistic about his shows returning. He knew that Young Justice had a shot at a revival if it got high streams on Netflix, and it did, and it's more a question of when Gargoyles is coming back than if at this point. But he'll always be the first person to squash down excitement for Spectacular to come back. That says it all.
IIRC on his personal blog/place where Greg Weisman answers fans questions he did go into detail about the how/why we'll never see a Spectacular Spider-Man Season 3 and beyond for reasons already stated. From what I remembered, it went something like this:
Sony sold the rights to make cartoon series based on Spider-Man back to Disney/Marvel so that Sony could be able to keep the rights to making the movies since the movies are very profitable for them. Sony owns the rights to everything they did for SSM like the story line and designs and if Disney/Marvel wanted to use those, they had to negotiate/license them with Sony (Keep in mind, this was before things like the MCU blowing up into the juggernaut it is) & even Greg thinks that Marvel would rather have their own Spidey cartoon to call their own rather than having to give money to another party.
I'm aware Sony owns the rights, but sometimes in business unexpected things can happen. If Playstation 5 doesn't end up doing well for them in the long run that could result in them losing enough that they wouldn't care about handing the rights over Spidey over. But right now its only a possibility. Getting high ratings on Netflix will at least get it attention and recognition it deserves if nothing else. Maybe it would inspire a newer series with the same writing spirit?
Yeah, unexpected things can happen, but the odds of a 14-year-old show doing so well on Netflix that Disney decides to revive that and split the profits with Sony instead of just making their own Spider-Man cartoon is astronomically slim. And as for "same writing spirit", maybe it's how stupid YJ's gotten since the revival, but I'm not as enthused for a new season of SSM as I used to be.
A Spider-Man YouTuber recently got to Ultimate Spider-Man in his series of Spidey TV show video essays, and he tries so hard to see the brighter side of the cartoon before giving up. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu_k8NnpHtY)
So, has anyone checked out Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur yet? The first 2 episodes have premiered on Disney Channel. I think it's pretty good.
EDIT: The first 6 episodes are now up on Disney+ and DisneyNOW.
Spider-Verse 2 is still not here yet, but another crossing of the Spidey streams happened where Mary Jane's VA from the 90s cartoon recently bashed the ASM comics.
(https://preview.redd.it/mary-janes-voice-actor-from-the-90s-on-the-current-state-of-v0-skxuzqii1u1b1.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=bd2461e7098a1c2a8a6a262fa9a432efb701c332)
(https://preview.redd.it/mary-janes-voice-actor-from-the-90s-on-the-current-state-of-v0-pb5adrii1u1b1.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=25568256179939ba998614e97f3d2d6d58b9d813)
The first half of Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur's second season has been dumped on Disney+ and DisneyNOW.
https://disneynow.com/shows/marvels-moon-girl-and-devil-dinosaur
Disney really doesn't seem interested in keeping their animated shows around anymore, do they?
Yeah, I noticed other shows of theirs are dying out after just 2 seasons. Used to be 3 or occasionally 4, unless it was huge like Phineas and Ferb.
Not gonna lie, I'm a little curious after that trailer. Even if it reeks of this.
(https://preview.redd.it/ykj8pf3vxgk41.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=bcd20455502f689ac5c5395e3d60bd824d55ca48)
I'm only partway into the first season of my rewatch, not sure if I can catch up in time but I'm hopeful.
As tired as I am of reboots and revivals, I'm pretty hype for this.
They really thought they were doing something with this outro animation.
Rewatched the premiere of the old X-Men show, and spent most of it getting annoyed by Morph's laugh. I was almost glad he died, but then I remembered they brought him back a couple times in the show.
I'm still early in season 1, and I forgot about the outro. The fact that this looks like a PS1 fighting game render a couple of years before it came out is somewhat impressive, but definitely of its time.
And yeah, I was not saddened to see Morph die... for now.
I heard he was brought back to life due to fan outcry, and if true, why? His shrill laugh, redundant power thanks to Mystique, and lack of charisma were repellent.
Watching it now, the 2-part premiere itself is fine but kind of bare-bones in hindsight. Not to the degree of the first X-Men movie, but it doesn't feel like much is happening even though it throws all the main characters at you, gives you a fakeout main character death, and throws giant robot fights at the end. I blame it on Jubilee, she's not great as a POV character and spending an hour with her as the audience surrogate exacerbated that. There's a reason later adaptations either demote her to a minor role or a blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo. At least she's a little bit better than when the first film tried to use Rogue as their POV lead while removing most of what makes Rogue interesting?
But as a whole, it's interesting how this and Spider-Man were the successful entries in the 90s Marvel cartoon universe while the others are mostly footnotes that are almost only brought up as memes nowadays (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38VBv0ZenZU). Nobody then knew how to make a Fantastic Four or a Hulk cartoon work?
So the showrunner got fired and he deleted all his social media. (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/marvel-shocker-x-men-97-creator-beau-demayo-fired-1235850423/) wondering what happened.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on March 12, 2024, 08:04:04 PMSo the showrunner got fired and he deleted all his social media. (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/marvel-shocker-x-men-97-creator-beau-demayo-fired-1235850423/) wondering what happened.
So, it seems he was also previously fired from
The Witcher's writers room due to abusive behavior.
Yeah, he's getting blacklisted.
Spoiler
So... Magneto/Rogue seems to be a thing they're hinting at. That's really weird. And yeah, I saw they've had a fling in the comics, but everyone's had a fling among the X-Men.
So that's why the X-Men '97 guy got fired. Lmao. (https://x.com/XMenUpdate/status/1824482794871173152)
So... weird choice to emulate the MTV Spider-Man cartoon's animation.
At least it's not woke or whatever.
I tried watching it earlier and the animation style is a bit of a turn off. It really does feel like animated cut scene from a video game like TellTale Games, but on an even lower budget than those games.
I'm also not keen on the animation style. That aside, I watched the first two episodes with zero expectations. On the plus side, it was pretty decent as far as animated Spider-Man shows go, so far (I still have no idea if this is supposed to be the MCU Spider-Man or not). On the negative side, it just makes me wish I was watching TSSM instead which was just a better version if what this show's trying to be.
For what it's worth, it didn't actively annoy me like Ultimate Spider-Man, nor was it dull like the 2017 show. Unlike those two, there's something here that feels more than just padding to fill in Disney XD schedules. And I like this show's Norman, even if Norman's a pretty easy character to not fuck up. But some of the adaptation changes confused me like Nico Minoru and Amadeus Cho being part of Peter's circle, or him being friends with Tombstone. Or when Doctor Strange showed up in this version of the origin story and his voice was so grating and out of step with everyone else.
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on January 30, 2025, 12:59:36 PM(I still have no idea if this is supposed to be the MCU Spider-Man or not).
I assume it isn't since Ned's not here and it'd seem pretty weird to introduce a whole new cast if continuity means Peter will leave most of them behind in a year at most. I imagine it's like how that MTV Spider-Man cartoon was meant to be a sequel to the first Raimi movie, but contradicted so much stuff and it was obvious Raimi didn't watch an episode that nobody seriously acknowledges the connection.
And yeah, as far as Spider-Man cartoon shows go, it's at least above the usual curve. Poor Peter's had a pretty uneven track record of animated series. One really good show that ended before its time, the very cheesy and over-the-top 90s series that I still like and occasionally rewatch nonetheless, the bizarre and poorly animated 60s show that's carried mostly by memes and Bakshi insanity, and that's about it in terms of the good ones. I guess Amazing Friends was decent enough. Everything else though, Christ. At least Unlimited had a cool opening?
Quote from: Avaitor on January 29, 2025, 11:20:30 AMAt least it's not woke or whatever.
Genuinely curious what he meant by that or if he watched his own show, because there was a whole montage of Tombstone getting racially profiled by cops and onlookers when he was walking home from school.
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on February 01, 2025, 02:55:55 AMGenuinely curious what he meant by that or if he watched his own show, because there was a whole montage of Tombstone getting racially profiled by cops and onlookers when he was walking home from school.
I saw someone mentioned that Peter's VA meant that there wasn't things like a Trump stand-in or some long rant about White Supremacy or the Patriarchy. Like, I need to find a source for that, but as far as I can tell, I didn't see anything like that in the 2 episodes that premiered and I do think with how diverse the cast is, it sort of tracks for me. All I know is that the director/showrunner had to defend Peter's VA by saying that he misspoke.
Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur's final episodes are all up on DisneyNOW.
https://disneynow.com/show/f31300a4-1a25-47c0-8f4f-ec2c85a81680
So, after watching the entire season I can honestly say that YFNSM is genuinely a pretty good show. Color me pleasantly surprised considering I had no expectations whatsoever from this series (of anything I was going in with some baggage). Now, to be clear, I'd take a TSSM season 3 over this any day, but I still have to give credit where it's due and I think they made a genuinely heartfelt Spider-Man series that progressively got better as the series progressed.
A minor nitpick is that I didn't like how two of Peter's Intern colleagues who are clearly positioned to be bigger characters in the future were kind of one-demensional and acted like dicks to Peter with little nuance (particularly Amadeus Cho), but I'm sure they are going to get fleshed out later on all the same if we make it that far.
Yeah, animation style aside, it feels more like a step in the right direction after the last two shows. The Strange appearance I initially thought was just random fanservice for the sake of it paid off. Tombstone's got his character arc. Josh Keaton showing up.
And I agree about Amadeus Cho. He's always been a character I thought was a little neat ages ago, but ever since they tried to make him the new Hulk and failed, nobody's really had a cool idea for him since.
Since the 2010s era of Marvel cartoons has been dead for a while, here's an autopsy.
I heard the continuity in these shows was an absolute mess, with 2 Peter Parkers just co-existing by accident and even the executive producers having no clue if the Avengers cartoon is even canon to itself, but I didn't realize it was that bad. And yeah, the shows were always going to be shit on for replacing SSM and EMH, you can see that from how other Spider-Man media and even Invincible use Josh Keaton as if even the execs on those felt he was robbed, but it's like the Loeb shows didn't even try. You'd think with the job security in making a 100+ episode cartoon, they'd go wild and do something cool instead of... well, Ultimate Spider-Man.