Animation Revelation Forum

Time to stop it with the suckage and make a topic for the best game series ever.

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My favorites are Majora's Mask and The Wind Waker, which have the best stories and most content. I also adore Twilight Princess. And let's not forget Ocarina of Time which, as we all know, has held the title of "Best Game Ever" since 1998. The handhelds, particularly Link's Awakening and the DS title Spirit Tracks , are also great!

I owned the earlier games when I was extremely young, but didn't REALLY start the series till A Link to the Past, back when I was probably 5 or something. I still love that one, but not as much as the 3D games, or Link's Awakening.

Coincidentally I just recently came across my old N64 since I was looking for it to hand down to my little sister, since she's just old enough to start playing those games (though, since she's only 6 she just goofs around a lot in them rather than really understanding what she's really supposed to do).

Anyways, I dusted the old thing off and tried to boot it up with Ocarina of Time, and it did finally start up but only after a few attempts of me using old tricks like blowing on the cartridge and sticking in a mini-dust collecting thing to clean out the inside part of the machine where the cartridge goes. It doesn't always start-up, and if someone moves the system while a game is running it usually freezes, but other than that the games play smoothly and all of the memory from my old save files are still there, including the file where I basically did 100% of everying in Ocarina of Time.

So, I've basically been replaying OoT via a new file, and I'm having a blast with it. Its been well over 2 years since I last touched the game, but badly aged graphics aside, the game holds up almost perfectly, IMO. My only current gripe with it is that the game won't ever save the area of your location, but just any of the items that you've collected and the overall progress you've made with locked or obscure areas in a dungeon. Its a bit annoying having to start back from Kokiri Village everytime I start up the game. Other than that, though, its still just as fun as I remember it. I'm currently at the part where I have to get the Goron's Stone from Dodongo's Cavern (though, I haven't actually entered the cavern yet).

Anyways, after I beat OoT again, I may go on to replay Majora's Mask, as well.

That's awesome! I think my cartridge still works, though I was kind of a jerk to it when I was younger (for example, glitching the game into converting totally into Japanese). It's aged wonderfully like you said. And even graphic-wise it doesn't look awful, which is how most PS1 games look now. One thing I like about the game is how easy it is to play. Of all the 3D Zeldas, this one is the easiest to pick up and play nonstop, even if it's not my favorite. Admittedly it's not too tough these days, but I won't claim I DIDN'T have trouble on the Water Temple back in the day.

Also, I'm just curious. Like, when did you get it? There's difference between versions depending on how early you bought the copy. Like, some of the sound effects are altered, music has been completely changed, and so on. Do you know how new your copy of the game is?

I look forward to getting the 3DS version of OoT, as I like my Zelda's portable, but my heart will always belong to the 2D games.

I really wish we could see Nintendo make a new LA/LTTP style game. It's been so long.

Fuck the Water Temple. I hated that shit. Still do.

Quote from: Desensitized on May 29, 2011, 09:44:59 AM
I look forward to getting the 3DS version of OoT, as I like my Zelda's portable, but my heart will always belong to the 2D games.

I really wish we could see Nintendo make a new LA/LTTP style game. It's been so long.

Four Swords Adventures for the GameCube was that 2D style, and it was BEAUTIFUL.

Quote from: Foggle on May 29, 2011, 09:56:20 AM
Fuck the Water Temple. I hated that shit. Still do.

I think it's awesome. It's Ocarina of Time's only hard dungeon. :P

I may be the only one who didn't find the Water Temple to be all that hard. There were some tough puzzles in there, and if you ever had to deal with enemies underwater while wearing the iron boots it would be a real nuissance, but other than that it was all fairly straightforward, IMO.

Oh, BTW, out of curiosity, am I the only one who got freaked out by the Shadow Temple as a kid....or at least the underground passage beneath the well....

Difficulty-wise, me go...
Water Temple > Forest Temple > Fire Temple > Shadow Temple > Spirit Temple

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 29, 2011, 11:20:27 AMOh, BTW, out of curiosity, am I the only one who got freaked out by the Shadow Temple as a kid....or at least the underground passage beneath the well....

No, no you are not.

I never found it all that hard either. Inventory switching with the boots was kind of boring, but it wasn't anything mindbendingly hard.

I guess I just get lost really easily. :sweat:

Link's Awakening is the only Zelda game I've ever beaten.

Never got to play Ocarina Of Time.

Water Temple still gives me trouble from time to time, even now. It's just a very easy place to get lost in. The puzzles themselves aren't that bad; it's just trying to find your way around, more than anything.

...but yeah, I love OoT. I make it a point to play through it again, at least once every other year. And honestly? It never gets old. Must be the nostalgia factor; either way, I absolutely love that game.

Quote from: gunswordfist on June 02, 2011, 11:19:37 AM
Never got to play Ocarina Of Time.

:whuh:

Quote from: Kiddington on June 02, 2011, 03:11:13 PM
Water Temple still gives me trouble from time to time, even now. It's just a very easy place to get lost in. The puzzles themselves aren't that bad; it's just trying to find your way around, more than anything.

...but yeah, I love OoT. I make it a point to play through it again, at least once every other year. And honestly? It never gets old. Must be the nostalgia factor; either way, I absolutely love that game.

To be honest, I don't think it only holds up form nostalgia. A lot of its gameplay mechanics STILL feel very well implemented today, and even after all of the modern games with their sandbox gameplay and big environments and such, this game doesn't feel the least bit small in comparison. It still feels like its as big and expansive of a world as ever, and I really get immersed in exploring all of the towns and temples and other areas and such, in order to find every last heart container or other special items. I can agree that other 3D Zelda games are probably mechanically better games than this one, but I still find that this one has my favorite design by far out of all of them (in terms of how its world is designed and how the quests play out). Also, seeing as how every Zelda game has its "gimmick," this is my favorite one, what with being able to switch between child and adult link and going back and forth through time.

Of course, I must admit, I STILL have yet to get a chance to play Twilight Princes but, one of these days....

A friend on FB linked to the Great Fairy Mountain music, and now I have a major urge to play OOT again. Majora, too. I'll try to buy a card to get them both later.

So guys, what would you say is the best song in the game?

For me, I have to split up my favorite themes between my favorite minor theme (ones that aren't quite as long and only used for specific areas in the game) and the major music themes (ones that are used for a lot of major parts in the game, and are generally longer and fully orchestrated). I can't think of my favorite major theme yet, but as for the more minor themes, my personal favorite has to be the Gerudo Valley theme. Its like the music was taken for an epic Western film and put into a Zelda game, except it totally fits the Zelda game and it manages to be both a calm and relaxing yet simultaneously adventurous theme, and that's a pretty fucking hard combination to do, but its probably the music theme that I come out remembering the most out of the entire game (not counting any of the major themes) to be honest.

Gerudo Valley.

Gerudo Valley is amazing. One of my top 3 favorites in the entire series, along with the Song of Storms and Dragon Roost Island.

I go with the original Fire Temple music. It's a shame they changed it. I don't see why the chant was so inappropriate.

It's been confirmed that they are reorchestrating the Hyrule Field theme for the 3DS version. Want to hear it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0CZDt8-LXg

Easily it'll be the best song in the game.

And also, I'd just like to say that this...

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcf.shacknews.com%2Fimages%2F20110607%2Fwiiuzeldatease_grab_18364.nphd.jpg&hash=34d4a75c0faedb5ec2067f97feaf0393b8ea2b7b)

Looks better then The Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and even Skyward Sword!

Now that's a way to come home!

Looks great.

Quote from: Avaitor on June 07, 2011, 06:47:18 PM
Now that's a way to come home!

Looks great.

What do you mean?

Quote from: talonmalon333 on June 07, 2011, 08:19:12 PM

Quote from: Avaitor on June 07, 2011, 06:47:18 PM
Now that's a way to come home!

Looks great.

What do you mean?

This was one of the first posts I read after I came back from a couple of days away at Gainesville.

Do you want anything more from me?

Quote from: Avaitor on June 07, 2011, 11:23:45 PMThis was one of the first posts I read after I came back from a couple of days away at Gainesville.

That's cool. I haven't seen you since I started making occasional recently lately, but it's good to see ya! :)

Quote from: Avaitor on June 07, 2011, 11:23:45 PMDo you want anything more from me?

Well some cash would be good.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on June 08, 2011, 11:26:36 AM

Quote from: Avaitor on June 07, 2011, 11:23:45 PMThis was one of the first posts I read after I came back from a couple of days away at Gainesville.

That's cool. I haven't seen you since I started making occasional recently lately, but it's good to see ya! :)

Yeah, I've been busy a little more lately. I'm also way behind on E3 news, and I'm going to change that soon. From what I can tell about the Wii U, I'm interested.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on June 08, 2011, 11:26:36 AM

Quote from: Avaitor on June 07, 2011, 11:23:45 PMDo you want anything more from me?

Well some cash would be good.

you say that now...

Quote from: Avaitor on June 08, 2011, 11:35:24 AMYeah, I've been busy a little more lately. I'm also way behind on E3 news, and I'm going to change that soon. From what I can tell about the Wii U, I'm interested.

That's cool, then! I'm currently just making occasional visits.  I'm online less now then I used to be, with the exception of a few things, which is why I vanished from here in the first place.

And just so you know, the image of Zelda for Wii U... it's not an actual game. Just a tech demo. :(

Quote from: Avaitor on June 08, 2011, 11:35:24 AMyou say that now...

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Stop it! This is between you and me!

I haven't really been keeping up with Skyward Sword like I probably should, so when I learned that there's apparently a very Metroid style exploration system at work (including both the sky overworld and the one on the ground) and a reliance on more types of clever gadgets and weapons sounds very interesting.

Quote from: Desensitized on August 24, 2011, 03:49:33 PM
I haven't really been keeping up with Skyward Sword like I probably should, so when I learned that there's apparently a very Metroid style exploration system at work (including both the sky overworld and the one on the ground) and a reliance on more types of clever gadgets and weapons sounds very interesting.

I've purposely avoided anything on SS since this year's E3. ;)

I need that remote bundle pre-order deal they've got going right now. NEED IT.

Gold Zelda Wiimote = awesomesauce. Oh, where art thou, $70? Spending money, Y U NO COME TO MEEEEE?  :wth:

I'm doing the preorder soon, and the game will be either a late birthday or early Christmas present, depending on whatever decision my mom and I make.

Wow, I just realized that I think I've gotten every Zelda game short of the N64 ones within the launch month. Skyward Sword is most likely in my future.

The Zelda community is currently in an uproar. Why? Well somehow, the Skyward Sword text dump has been leaked.

I'm still ignoring all news on this game. I want to go into this blind.

Quote from: Desensitized on November 09, 2011, 01:41:31 PM
I'm still ignoring all news on this game. I want to go into this blind.

I think this thread's avoided news. As for SS, I've avoided news too... But people who've kept up with it are telling me the story is good... like, really good. AND the controls are perfect. AND the difficulty is great. AND the game is full of content. AND the graphics are gorgeous.

So yeah, SS couldn't come soon enough. I'm hoping it'll at least be as good as Wind Waker or Twilight Princess.

Are we still expected to buy Wii Motion Plus wands? And how many?

Quote from: Angus on November 10, 2011, 05:33:49 PM
Are we still expected to buy Wii Motion Plus wands? And how many?

It's sold separately. But there's also a collector's edition that comes with a gold Wii Motion Plus.

Got that Gold thingy pre-ordered   .3. suppposedly comes with a music CD too. I guess we'll have another player for Mario Kart ;)

So, the game has been getting pretty high review scores (as expected for a Zelda game) from most gaming sites and magazines, but for some reason a lot of people seem really pissed off about 1 review in particular, which is Gamespot's review (they gave the game a 7.5/10).

I haven't seen the review myself, so I'm not sure what the big fuss is over one review (especially from a site as biased as GS), but from what I've heard apparently the reviewer said that the controls were bad but then admitted to not knowing how some particular key functions were supposed to work (that's only what I've heard, anyways). Personally I don't really care about reviews, but just for reference no other review that I know of complained about the controls at all (most were apparently surprised by how fluid it was, for a Zelda game that fully utilized motion controls).

Personally I'd have picked this game on on day 1 (it'd be the rare occasion where I'd save up for a game months in advance and pre-order myself a copy of it) if I actually owned a Wii. I still really want to get a Wii for this, and of course Twilight Princess as well.

Heh, Gamespot was the outlier on Twilight Princess, too. It's just one of those franchises they don't care for, I'm guessing.

Isn't OOT one of like, 2 games to get a perfect 10 from them, though?

Quote from: Avaitor on November 16, 2011, 06:25:14 PM
Isn't OOT one of like, 2 games to get a perfect 10 from them, though?

As far as I know they've given 4 games a 10 (probably more than that, but that's all that I know of): OoT, Soul Calibur, MGS4, and GTA4.

It should probably be noted that so far, Skyward Sword's average score is 94/100 (according to Metacritic), so its still fairing extremely well among most reviewers. I believe IGN even gave it a perfect score.

7.5 is still a good score. I can't see why people would complain unless the scores were <6.

Besides, they're just reviews. Unless a legitimately good title is unfairly bashed or a terrible/mediocre game is praised as being excellent, I don't see why anyone should care. Fanboys should just play the damn game and decide for themselves.

Quote from: Foggle on November 16, 2011, 08:23:18 PM
7.5 is still a good score. I can't see why people would complain unless the scores were <6.

Fanboys of big franchises in particular just can't stand it when a game series they love gets a game released that scores anything less than a 9/10, for some reason. They feel as though those games are just obligated to get high scores just because they are part of a great franchise, regardless of their own merits as a stand-alone title.

As I said, though, personally I stopped giving a fuck about review scores a long time ago. At best its useful enough to use a review score average to gauge whether or not a game is generally fun or total garbage, but even in that case you can't trust review averages too much because the games could still be fun but the critics may be too busy being snobs about trivial shit to notice that (see games like Duke Nukem Forever and Splatterhouse to get what I'm talking about).

I know Perfect Dark also got a 10. I think the first MGS might have too.

But yeah, you guys are right, reviews are meaningless.

The first MGS got an 8.5 on Gamespot, and Perfect Dark got a 9.9 (which to be fair isn't exactly far off from a 10, anyways). Honestly, though, I've never gotten the point of putting decimal points in scores. Why can't a game just have some solid number assigned to it. Does it really need a .5 or even something as specific as a .3? Does it really mean a substantial difference in quality between 2 games if they differ by a score of .1? Yeah, like I said, its stupid and honestly downright gimmicky.

Personally I don't care for assigning things generalized scores myself. To me that kind of kills the point of writing a review.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 16, 2011, 07:30:59 PM

Quote from: Avaitor on November 16, 2011, 06:25:14 PM
Isn't OOT one of like, 2 games to get a perfect 10 from them, though?

As far as I know they've given 4 games a 10 (probably more than that, but that's all that I know of): OoT, Soul Calibur, MGS4, and GTA4.

It should probably be noted that so far, Skyward Sword's average score is 94/100 (according to Metacritic), so its still fairing extremely well among most reviewers. I believe IGN even gave it a perfect score.

Didn't Tony Hawk get a 10?

I think it was Tony Hawk 3 that got a 10. Which I don't agree with. The first two game were miles better, the third was a total cakewalk and 4 was almost self-parody.

But points like 8.8 and 9.9 are just bizarre. The numbers just sound completely arbitrary at that point.

Quote from: Desensitized on November 17, 2011, 12:46:45 PM
I think it was Tony Hawk 3 that got a 10. Which I don't agree with. The first two game were miles better, the third was a total cakewalk and 4 was almost self-parody.

Really? Well, the 2nd one was good but the 1st one sucked, IMO. Also Tony Hawk 3 had some much tougher objectives to get through in each stage than the 2nd one, which I played quite a lot of on the N64. Either way, though, none of those games really deserved a 10, IMO. I do think that 2 and 3 are fun games, but not really games that would hold my interest for far too long.

You did not just say Tony Hawk 1 sucked...you better not own any horses because I'm about to cut one of their heads off.

Bitch, I'd shove that horse head straight up your ass, anyways. Right along with a copy of that shitty-ass game Tony Hawk 1. :anger:

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 17, 2011, 01:32:31 PM
Bitch, I'd shove that horse head straight up your ass, anyways. Right along with a copy of that shitty-ass game Tony Hawk 1. :anger:

So you buy horses just to shove their heads up men's arses? This is not the time to leak out fetishes of yours, ensatsuken.  :sly:

So you fantasize about men having horse heads shoved up their asses. I'd say the same to you about not leaking out sick fetishes of yours, but in your case I'm not one bit surprised if that's true. :>

I love Tony Hawk 1. It was the first skateboarding game that I ever really enjoyed, and it was pretty simple and straightforward like an arcade game. 2 is better because they added just the right amount or depth and extras, but 3 was just boring. It was the same game only they made the levels bigger which was not what the series needed, IMO, it just makes everything harder to find and breaks pacing (like doing all the objectives in 2 minutes which was fun), but it's not all that bad. 4 blew, though.

Quote from: Desensitized on November 17, 2011, 01:44:15 PM
I love Tony Hawk 1. It was the first skateboarding game that I ever really enjoyed, and it was pretty simple and straightforward like an arcade game. 2 is better because they added just the right amount or depth and extras, but 3 was just boring. It was the same game only they made the levels bigger which was not what the series needed, IMO, it just makes everything harder to find and breaks pacing (like doing all the objectives in 2 minutes which was fun), but it's not all that bad. 4 blew, though.

Yeah, that's fine, but I disagree. Personally, I think 1 was pretty boring (not bad, but just "meh"). You can say what you want about 3, but it was more than just bigger levels. It was straight up more fun, IMO. The mechanics were deeper and the pacing wasn't really broken up at all. It just took a lot more skill to overcome some obstacles or complete some challenges, which I personally prefer in these types of games.

2 was incredible. I'm not a big fan of skateboarding games at all, but that's easily one of the best of its kind. It's also one of a handful of games to get a Platinum award (all 10's across the board) in EGM, so I'm obviously not alone in thinking that. Although it was technically two of a handful, since both the PS1 and Dreamcast versions were rated separately and got in on their own.

But back to the thread, 3 other games to get Platinum awards from the mag are OOT, MM and TP. It'd be cool if SS was another.

For me, Oracle of Ages/Seasons are the pinnacle of handheld Zelda games, and as far as I'm concerned their my favorite 2D Zelda games as well. They may not be as big as something as LTTP, but they make up for it by being more focused, and IMO they have more interesting dungeons and bosses. That said I plan to replay LTTP sometime soon, so maybe I'll find a newfound love for the game on my next play-through of it. Its not that I dislike the game, because its an awesome game, and a true classic, but much like how people find OOT to be overrated among 3D Zelda games, I didn't exactly find LTTP to the the best 2D Zelda game. Maybe another go through it will give me a new perspective on it, though. After all, I haven't played it in over 3 years.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on November 17, 2011, 04:02:48 PM
For me, Oracle of Ages/Seasons are the pinnacle of handheld Zelda games, and as far as I'm concerned their my favorite 2D Zelda games as well. They may not be as big as something as LTTP, but they make up for it by being more focused, and IMO they have more interesting dungeons and bosses. That said I plan to replay LTTP sometime soon, so maybe I'll find a newfound love for the game on my next play-through of it. Its not that I dislike the game, because its an awesome game, and a true classic, but much like how people find OOT to be overrated among 3D Zelda games, I didn't exactly find LTTP to the the best 2D Zelda game. Maybe another go through it will give me a new perspective on it, though. After all, I haven't played it in over 3 years.

I need to play OoS and OoA again cause it's been ages for me as well. As for ALttP, yeah, I agree. I actually dropped it in my most recent replay. Light World is awesome, Dark World is kinda boring to me.

1. A Link to the Past
2. Link's Awakening
3. The Minish Cap
4. Oracle of Ages
5. Four Swords Adventures
6. Oracle of Seasons
7. The Wind Waker
8. The Legend of Zelda
9. Majora's Mask
10. Twilight Princess
11. Ocarina of Time
12. Four Swords
13. The Adventure of Link
14. Spirit Tracks
15. Phantom Hourglass

I hope there's a 3DS MM remake, but most of all... I really hope they go back to classic 2D style Zelda for the next portable game.

1. Ocarina of Time
2. Majora's Mask
3. Oracle of Ages
4. Oracle of Seasons
5. A Link to the Past
6. The Wind Waker
7. Twilight Princess
8. Link's Awakening
9. The Minish Cap
10. The Legend of Zelda
11. Four Swords Adventure
12. The Adventure of Link
13. Four Swords
14. Spirit Tracks
15. Phantom Hourglass

The only games on this list that I actually dislike are, obviously, the last two. I long for the days when handheld Zelda was actually fun, and not the cumbersome, boring chore that the two DS titles turned out to be (just recently beat Spirit Tracks, by the way; only Zelda game that actually took me over a year to beat, let alone TWO. Yes, I was that bored with it).

I still have yet to play either of those games, myself. When I finally get around to getting a DS, those'll probably be among my top 10 must have games for the platform.

I never got to play Ocarina of Time. I've never even seen some play Windwaker. I've never played Oracle of Ages. I've never played Four Swords. I haven't played any of the DS games. I never came anywhere close to beating Link to the Past or Majora's Mask and haven't gotten to far with the first one so:

1. Oracle of Seasons
2. Link's Awakening

Even then, my oldest little brother beat some, if not a lot of my playthrough of Oracle of Seasons and I haven't played the GBC version of Link's Awakening yet.

I don't think anyone particularly cares, but Nintendo has been releasing a Zelda book in Japan. And from a source, we've gotten what could potentially be the Zelda timeline.

UPDATE: This timeline has been confirmed to be official.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newnintendo.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2FZtimeline.jpg&hash=02ebf8a30e77df076f1696dfca497e819bed2713)

So, then the first timeline is the one I should want more games from? Also, I thought Link's Awakening was a sequel to ALTTP, and I thought the Oracle games took place after Zelda 2.

We also need to see more of Vaati. So underused.

Quote from: Desensitized on December 25, 2011, 12:11:56 PM
So, then the first timeline is the one I should want more games from? Also, I thought Link's Awakening was a sequel to ALTTP, and I thought the Oracle games took place after Zelda 2.

We also need to see more of Vaati. So underused.

First timeline? What do you mean?

LA is a sequel to ALttP. But OoS and OoA are interquels... Basically, that Link gets to start in four games. Lucky dog.

By first time line, I meant the one on the far left.

I guess ALTTP Link is my favorite Link, then.

So here's the most recent (and almost definitely fake) rumor:

Nintendo is working on two separate Zelda games for the 3DS entitled "Fire Prophecy" and "Ice Prophecy" not too dissimilar from something they did back on the Game Boy Color. Now while this specific rumor is almost certainly fake, does anyone else think this something they should do next? Honestly, I think this would be just the thing the series needs to get a shot in the arm on portables again after the DS games killed a lot of its momentum.

Plus, who wouldn't want two new Zelda games instead of one?  ;)

I'd very much like for Nintendo to pull off something very similar to what they did for Oracle of Ages/Seasons. I think that would probably be a good route for them to take with respect to the handheld Zelda games, as opposed to just making sequels to The Wind Waker, which from what I can tell have received very mixed reactions from fans (which I think by default makes them the least liked of all of Zelda's handheld outings, even if they do still get generally positive reception).

They should have a bunch of 2D games on the 3DS and a legit Wind Waker sequel on the Wii, then make the next big 3D adventure for Wii-U. :)

I want a downloadable new 2D Zelda. They don't even have to HD it up. Just give me rooms that are larger than one screen a la Oracles and a New Game + that emphasis using all your equipment to get through the game and I'm set.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi961.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae97%2Fjakub93pl%2F1c552091.jpg&hash=9e517e3cb7a09df6db131224911af1b0bb88a0b8)

New Legend Of Zelda? Sweet! I hope it's 2D!

Soon after Skyward Sword's release, they said that two Zelda games are in the works (presumably one for the 3DS, and one for the Wii U), so I expected something like this.

By the way, what did some of you guys think of Skyward Sword?

Actually, Skyward Sword did prove one thing to me and that was that I'm not into the Ocarina Of Time style 3D Zelda games. For a series that everyone complains is stale, there really are more than one style of game in there.

You have the classic 2D games started with Zelda 1 that evolved through A Link To The Past and tweaked with Link's Awakening, Minish Cap, and the Oracle games. Clearly these are my favorites, but that doesn't mean I hate the others. We haven't gotten one of these since the GBA, and we're about due.

Then there's Zelda 2. While I'd LOVE Miyamoto to make a full blown exploration platformer (NOT a Metroidvania, something closer to Clash At Demonhead meets Zelda 2), this is probably unlikely. I would not turn this down at all, though.

Next is Ocarina Of Time, which took the LTTP formula and basically made it more straightforward. This continued with Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, where it was the same basic formula, just built on and refined. This is arguably the most popular style, and probably the most controversial (IE fans of one game of this style tend to hate on the others in it) since it is the most well known in the last how many years.

And then you have the "experimental ideas". Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker. This is my favorite of the 3D Zelda style because both of those games were completely unpredictable to me and for completely separate reasons. Majora's Mask is tighter and more closed in, and Wind Waker is by far the most wide open Zelda that captures the spirit of adventure from the original game, you can criticize the sailing (and yes, it could be faster) but it adds a lot of breadth to the world while keeping it simple in Zelda terms. The two games are opposites, but are Zelda through and through. This is what I'd like to see revisited again.

Last and certainly least is the Phantom Hourglass formula. Taking the 2D overhead style and simplifying it for minigame touch gimmicks and a side "project" like boats or trains on the side. Spirit Tracks bombed in Japan and under-preformed here, so this style is probably done.

See? There are multiple styles here. Honestly, I want more of the classic and experimental 3D ones. Those are my absolute favorite games in the series.

Well, I'm a huge fan of the OoT style so I personally can't complain any Zelda games following that style. That said I agree that we should get a return of both the classic 2D style Zelda games as well as the more experimental 3D ones (though to be fair they were still heavily inspired by OoT's style, but they just strayed further away from it in some areas than TP and SS did, since I hear that those games relied heavily on OoT's tried and true formula in comparison to MM and WW).

Honestly I could never really get into LTTP no matter how much I tried, but I still respect the style that it set up and I'm a huge fan of the Oracle Games and I liked what I've played of Minish Cap and various other 2D Zelda games, so I wouldn't mind another great title in the vein of those games.

I like pretty much all the styles, but after I played OoT, neither of the other two really held my attention and I sort of drifted away from them. I never finished either because I just plain lost interest. Majora's Mask hooked me because I had no idea what was going on, and Wind Waker caught me off guard because of the scope (making the world big without complicating it up was a huge deal to me) and it gave me the same punch as the first time I played the 2D games and the first time I played OoT. If anyone is complaining about Zelda feeling stale it's probably because the last two console games were basically more refined OoT style games. We're about due for something different there.

As for the portables... Classic 2D. This is a no-brainer. The PH style games were not what people wanted, and we've been denied an old school Zelda for so long (As I said, the last one was on the GBA!) while Mario, Kirby, and Donkey Kong are getting classic style games. It just isn't fair. :(

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention the Four Swords games. A new Four Swords Adventure game like the Gamecube one would be awesome. those games are more arcade-style action games mixed with Zelda, but they're pretty great in their own right.

I wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo released a new 2D-style Zelda this year. That's a truckload of money waiting to be made.

Anyway, I still haven't played much of Skyward Sword yet (too busy with other games), but maybe I'll get back to it once I'm finished with my second No More Heroes playthrough.

Four Swords would be great for me if I could actually find friends to play them with. :(

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 27, 2012, 12:04:47 AM
Four Swords would be great for me if I could actually find friends to play them with. :(

I actually played through with two of my friends who had GBAs. We never ended up finishing the game because of the fights that would ensue over stupid things like who would pull what switch. This never happened when we played Crystal Chronicles, PSO, Left 4 Dead, or any other co-op game. Just this one for some reason.

But I can imagine it would work better now with a 3DS system where the GBA can use the bottom screen and the Gamecube the top instead of having to wrangle GBAs and link cables... and hopefully online co-op.

The thing about Zelda is, as much as I love the series, they rarely improve on what they made with OoT. Really, TP was the only one that did. It was the perfect progression. MM, WW, and SS were more focused on (for lack of a better term) gimmicks... This is barely even an opinion either. The facts can be seen in the success of these games. OoT and TP were overwhelmingly acclaimed. MM and WW just didn't resonate with people, and what you guys may not know is that SS flopped, pretty badly. People want progression, not reinvention. Just look at the success of Mario and Pokemon.

And in case anyone is curious, no I'm not recommending "REHASH, REHASH!!!!!!!". Games can still have their own identity while sticking to the main formula. Link's Awakening, for example.

So from an objective point of view, what Zelda really needs is a TP sequel featuring the Wii U tablet.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgamingbolt.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F06%2Fzelda-wii-u.jpg&hash=2b981a8ecd62ce155bf489b6c0b309215bb317be)

Cause while I loved MM, SS, and WW, the developers shouldn't just keep introducing new art styles and whatnot. It'll just divide the fanbase yet again. ???

Skyward Sword was technically a Twilight Princess sequel. Just like OoT it had the "multiple level/worlds" gimmick, the eight main dungeons, and most of the same story beats. I really don't know how SS could be more like TP without copping the same exact art style.

What I would love is a Zelda game that gets you started into the gameplay fast. Link's Awakening, the first thing you do is go get your sword, for instance. A Link To The Past, you get a sword from your uncle and there you are. Wind Waker was a bit better about this, but most non-2D Zelda games take too long to get to the main story. I think it's really the shell that people are tired of. The dungeons and general gameplay is still great (SS even introduced some cool items), but there's a lot of needless clutter in there. A Zelda game just needs things like a bow and arrow, bombs, hookshot, something like the leaf from WW, and something like the scarab from SS along with the standard sword and shield. Most of the other items are completely situational and are mostly a waste. Heck, give me Roc's Feather and I'll never use anything else.

Also, I could really do without the "Navi style" companions. They're completely unnecessary. Something like the phone in LA would be much preferred.

Make a Zelda game that throws you into the action, put out a slightly different style of story like Wind Waker or Majora's Mask, tone down the gimmick items, and keep it simple. Zelda doesn't need reinvention or rehash, it just needs to keep it simple. What needs to go is the "multiple world" thing they've been milking in most 3D Zelda games since ALTTP.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 27, 2012, 03:13:51 PM
Skyward Sword was technically a Twilight Princess sequel. Just like OoT it had the "multiple level/worlds" gimmick, the eight main dungeons, and most of the same story beats. I really don't know how SS could be more like TP without copping the same exact art style.

It was made around a completely new control scheme. That's a pretty big deal. :P

Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 27, 2012, 03:19:07 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 27, 2012, 03:13:51 PM
Skyward Sword was technically a Twilight Princess sequel. Just like OoT it had the "multiple level/worlds" gimmick, the eight main dungeons, and most of the same story beats. I really don't know how SS could be more like TP without copping the same exact art style.

It was made around a completely new control scheme. That's a pretty big deal. :P

Well, yeah that changed the controls. But it didn't really have much to do with changing anything in the actual game. You still use a sword and shield, you still go to 8 dungeons, you still have a useless helper that never shuts up, and you still get a ton of items you'll never use more than a few times. And it still takes WAY too long to get into the main game.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 27, 2012, 03:24:42 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 27, 2012, 03:19:07 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 27, 2012, 03:13:51 PM
Skyward Sword was technically a Twilight Princess sequel. Just like OoT it had the "multiple level/worlds" gimmick, the eight main dungeons, and most of the same story beats. I really don't know how SS could be more like TP without copping the same exact art style.

It was made around a completely new control scheme. That's a pretty big deal. :P

Well, yeah that changed the controls. But it didn't really have much to do with changing anything in the actual game. You still use a sword and shield, you still go to 8 dungeons, you still have a useless helper that never shuts up, and you still get a ton of items you'll never use more than a few times. And it still takes WAY too long to get into the main game.

It's not just. The game is designed entirely around the control scheme. The puzzles, enemies, bosses, a whole lot, really.

I like it slightly more than TP. But I actually think TP is more polished and less flawed.

I don't know where you heard that MM and WW didn't resonate with people, because they both got great reception from critics and a ton of Zelda fans love MM and WW. Are they as popular as OoT or TP, no, but they are still games that were generally well received and I have encountered many people who consider each of those respective games their personal favorites in the Zelda series.

Also, following the OoT formula is what SS got most criticized for by most critics. They said it didn't take many measure to evolve itself from such an old formula and therefore didn't feel as fresh as some of the previous 3D Zelda games, and those games were actually praised and well-liked BECAUSE of their gimmicks, since it let them stand alone as great games and did unique and interesting stuff with the established formula rather than follow it to the letter, which made those games much less predictable and gave them a very fresh sort of feeling.

Now, I'm a huge fan of OoT's style so I don't mind a few rehashes because its honestly a great formula. One thing that REALLY bugs me is when people who don't like the new games sticking to that formula consider those games lazily designed. Sticking to a tried and true formula to play it safe is one thing and I can understand and even agree with that criticism, but by no means do any of the newer 3D Zelda games come off as lazy to me. I haven't played them, sure, but I have seen tons of footage of them being played and have watched friends play various chunks of TP back when that came out, and the puzzles and level designs are full of creativity and great ideas. So really, its not like Nintendo has been dropping the ball on actual quality when it comes to newer Zelda games. Its more like they are just playing it a little to safe and staying close to a rather predictable and old formula.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 27, 2012, 03:42:46 PM
I don't know where you heard that MM and WW didn't resonate with people, because they both got great reception from critics and a ton of Zelda fans love MM and WW. Are they as popular as OoT or TP, no, but they are still games that were generally well received and I have encountered many people who consider each of those respective games their personal favorites in the Zelda series.

Also, following the OoT formula is what SS got most criticized for by most critics. They said it didn't take many measure to evolve itself from such an old formula and therefore didn't feel as fresh as some of the previous 3D Zelda games, and those games were actually praised and well-liked BECAUSE of their gimmicks, since it let them stand alone as great games and did unique and interesting stuff with the established formula rather than follow it to the letter, which made those games much less predictable and gave them a very fresh sort of feeling.

Now, I'm a huge fan of OoT's style so I don't mind a few rehashes because its honestly a great formula. One thing that REALLY bugs me is when people who don't like the new games sticking to that formula consider those games lazily designed. Sticking to a tried and true formula to play it safe is one thing and I can understand and even agree with that criticism, but by no means do any of the newer 3D Zelda games come off as lazy to me. I haven't played them, sure, but I have seen tons of footage of them being played and have watched friends play various chunks of TP back when that came out, and the puzzles and level designs are full of creativity and great ideas. So really, its not like Nintendo has been dropping the ball on actual quality when it comes to newer Zelda games. Its more like they are just playing it a little to safe and staying close to a rather predictable and old formula.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the new 3D games. I still love them personally. But it's indeed a fact that people haven't been as big fan of some of them (though like you said, they were still very well received, but that's largely cause they have "Zelda" in their title). People didn't like the time mechanics of MM, the frequent use of sailing in WW, and the control scheme of SS (which, despite what you may think, I've heard dozens of complaints about (I'm a staff member on a Zelda site, so I hear a bit more. :P)).

I agree that rehashes aren't the best idea. But I do think the best idea is to find a middle ground between reusing ideas and coming up with new ones. Mario, for example, doesn't just rehash things except for plot. With him they come up with new ideas, but those ideas do more of a job of complimenting what already makes Mario fantastic.

Like I said though, I still love those games, and as you know, MM is my favorite in the series. I'm just speaking on info I've gained from fans.

By the way, have anyone heard the 25th anniversary orchestrated tracks? They're brilliant. This one, TP one, makes me feel bad that they decided against orchestration in that game. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKhLkgqEFZM

I just popped in Wind Waker and it took me 20 minutes to get to the first dungeon. There were tutorials, but all but the short combat one and platforming one were optional and skippable. I really don't understand why other Zelda games can't do this at the start, too? There was no reason for TP or SS to take 4 times as long to accomplish the same thing.

Anyway, I started it and worked my way through the first dungeon and I think I'll start a replay of it. It's been long enough since my save deletion and it hooked me a lot faster than SS did.

Toon Link is still awesome.

By first dungeon do you mean the fortress where Toon Link's sister is being held? Because I don't really count that as a true dungeon, and even if it is I kind of found that part to be a little slow since you had to be stealthy being that you didn't have weapons on you for a portion of that area. Well, maybe my memory is foggy on WW but that's what I remember coming first. I do think that the game is pretty awesome, though, and it doesn't take too long to get invested in the deep exploration and awesome dungeons that the game has to offer. That said, while I myself am the type of gamer who hates games that take way too long to get you into the action (which is the main reason for why I can't get into most RPGs), I never really minded it too much in Zelda games. It does a good job of building up the characters and world around you, and its one of the few games where I'm actually somewhat interested in the story, so I don't mind the whole first hour full of exposition thing that most 3D Zelda games having going on. I do agree that its better to get you into the action as quickly as possible, though.

I think SS especially did a good job with it's "slow start". It just does so well establishing the relationship between Link and Zelda. Like, so good that when that moment I knew it was going to end (I recognized it from E3), I just wished it would last forever.

/corneyness

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 27, 2012, 06:33:15 PM
By first dungeon do you mean the fortress where Toon Link's sister is being held? Because I don't really count that as a true dungeon, and even if it is I kind of found that part to be a little slow since you had to be stealthy being that you didn't have weapons on you for a portion of that area. Well, maybe my memory is foggy on WW but that's what I remember coming first. I do think that the game is pretty awesome, though, and it doesn't take too long to get invested in the deep exploration and awesome dungeons that the game has to offer. That said, while I myself am the type of gamer who hates games that take way too long to get you into the action (which is the main reason for why I can't get into most RPGs), I never really minded it too much in Zelda games. It does a good job of building up the characters and world around you, and its one of the few games where I'm actually somewhat interested in the story, so I don't mind the whole first hour full of exposition thing that most 3D Zelda games having going on. I do agree that its better to get you into the action as quickly as possible, though.

Well compared to TP which has nothing of the sort for well over an hour and the same with SS, it's a much faster start. Wind Waker gets you started on your quest pretty fast. Wind Waker introduces all the concepts to you as the story unfolds instead of presenting you with everything and then letting the story really start.

Als, talon's crazy, the combat is great.  :P

Twilight Princess had the most tedious beginning of all the 3D games. The other games at least had you do something of interest. In TP I recall the first thing having you do in Wolf form is a tedious fetch quest.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 27, 2012, 07:04:26 PM
Als, talon's crazy, the combat is great.  :P

Hey now, I wasn't bashing the games. Like I said, I love WW and SS, and MM is my favorite in the series. I like what these games have that differentiates them. When I said OoT and TP are the ones that resonated best, I was just referring to info that I've gathered about the general public, not my personal opinion. I'll admit that I can be wrong about my explanation, but I feel pretty confident about it.

EDIT: And I just realized I'd forgotten that WW rant I went on a few weeks ago. :P

In the meantime, I'd like to bring back up a question I asked a few days ago.

What did you guys think of SS?

Well, Desensitized has already made it clear that he doesn't like it, Avaitor probably doesn't like it either since he couldn't bother to keep playing it, and aside from those 2 and yourself I don't think that anyone else here has played Skyward Sword yet.

If I was playing it, I'd probably like it, but I can't be certain until I actually get a Wii and play it for myself, so until then its not exactly a very well-liked game on this board.

I've played it, I'm just not that far into it. Not out of disinterest mind you, but more because I got distracted by other games.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on March 01, 2012, 03:08:47 PM
Well, Desensitized has already made it clear that he doesn't like it, Avaitor probably doesn't like it either since he couldn't bother to keep playing it, and aside from those 2 and yourself I don't think that anyone else here has played Skyward Sword yet.

If I was playing it, I'd probably like it, but I can't be certain until I actually get a Wii and play it for myself, so until then its not exactly a very well-liked game on this board.

Ouch. :P

I actually thought Foggle played it though.

I have not. I want to, though. :(

Quote from: Foggle on March 01, 2012, 04:37:39 PM
I have not. I want to, though. :(

But you said you got it for Christmas, and went on to call it the best in the series.

:whuh:

I got up to the Dragon Roost dungeon in Wind Waker before I decided to stop for today. I really enjoy the scope and tone of the game, I even went out of my way to do some side quests and got some heart pieces and camera. There's just something about this Zelda that keeps me coming back.

I got it for Christmas, but I have barely had any time to play games since, which I have mostly devoted to my complete Resident Evil run. So once I have more time to game, I'll get to finishing it. I've played about five hours of it so far, and it's easily one of the best 3D games in the series.

I said something to the extent of "it may very well be the best in the series." But I never said I'd finished it, or that I'd even gotten very far in it. I refrained from responding to your question because I don't really know how well the full game will stack up.

Quote from: Foggle on March 01, 2012, 05:12:04 PM
I got it for Christmas, but I have barely had any time to play games since, which I have mostly devoted to my complete Resident Evil run.

So you stopped SS for RE5...

AJGIAENGKSHSKJDHNJFXDKGXDKJFGHNSKHGSDIHNFKHNDFHNYOUSTOPTHISRIGHTNOW.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on March 01, 2012, 05:14:53 PM

Quote from: Foggle on March 01, 2012, 05:12:04 PM
I got it for Christmas, but I have barely had any time to play games since, which I have mostly devoted to my complete Resident Evil run.

So you stopped SS for RE5...

AJGIAENGKSHSKJDHNJFXDKGXDKJFGHNSKHGSDIHNFKHNDFHNYOUSTOPTHISRIGHTNOW.

I concur, man.  :oo:

Nah, I stopped SS for RE 1, 2, 3, Code Veronica, 0, 4, and Umbrella/Darkside Chronicles. 5 was more of a necessary evil to complete my run. ;)

I'll probably play it once I have a lot of time to just sit around and game. Zelda is one of those things that really sucks away my free time.

Playing Skyward Sword for real reals now. Restarted the game since it's been so long since I've played any of it.

The motion controls were really cool at first, but honestly, now that the novelty's worn off, I think this game would've been much better without them. I feel like Miyamoto most of the time during combat (you know what I'm talking about) and the flying controls are godawful. SS has way too many cutscenes, too. If Nintendo was going to put this many unskippable story cinematics in their game, they might as well have given them voice acting. Yeah, sue me, I wish a Zelda game had voice acting.

Level design-wise, SS doesn't even hold a candle to Wind Waker or the N64 titles so far, though I'm sure it gets better. But Fi's hand-holding is really getting on my nerves.

While it may sound like I'm hating on it, I'm actually really enjoying the game so far. It isn't blowing me away like most of the series' other entries, but it's still pretty good. Hopefully it improves by the end.

Yeah, I really don't like the flying controls. I keep on diving down when I don't want to.

I've been planning on trying it again, but I just haven't been impressed with SS all that much. I really wish Desen it TP in his list instead.

I still need to play TP for more than 30 minutes. Which control scheme for that one is better, Wii or GC (and if it's the latter, can you plug a GC controller in to play the Wii version a la RE 4?)?

Quote from: Foggle on April 18, 2012, 11:50:43 PM
Playing Skyward Sword for real reals now. Restarted the game since it's been so long since I've played any of it.

The motion controls were really cool at first, but honestly, now that the novelty's worn off, I think this game would've been much better without them. I feel like Miyamoto most of the time during combat (you know what I'm talking about) and the flying controls are godawful. SS has way too many cutscenes, too. If Nintendo was going to put this many unskippable story cinematics in their game, they might as well have given them voice acting. Yeah, sue me, I wish a Zelda game had voice acting.

Level design-wise, SS doesn't even hold a candle to Wind Waker or the N64 titles so far, though I'm sure it gets better. But Fi's hand-holding is really getting on my nerves.

While it may sound like I'm hating on it, I'm actually really enjoying the game so far. It isn't blowing me away like most of the series' other entries, but it's still pretty good. Hopefully it improves by the end.

I hear you. While I was in love with this game when it first came out, I've since mellowed out about it and have issues with it now. It's still great, just not one of the BEST GAMES EVAR.

The dungeons get much better later on. However, my issue with the game is the overworld. It's just more dungeon. The past Zelda games had breathing room between dungeons, time to relax or explore. But in SS, not really. As for the motion controls, I like them as an alternative to traditional controls, not better or worse. But I do have an issue with how they feel the need to tack them onto every little speck of the game. It makes the game feel like a tech demo.

Also, for the record, I think WW's dungeons sucked. Badly. :P

Quote from: Foggle on April 19, 2012, 09:36:26 AM
I still need to play TP for more than 30 minutes. Which control scheme for that one is better, Wii or GC (and if it's the latter, can you plug a GC controller in to play the Wii version a la RE 4?)?

The GC version of TP is much better (also, the GC controller doesn't work with the Wii version). To be honest, I find TP's motion controls to be a joke. Unlike SS's perfect sword control, TP's was just shake the Wiimote to make Link swing it, or as some might call it, waggle. Plus, there's a delay between swinging the Wiimote and Link swinging his sword. It's just lazy, tacked on motion controls that were done to sell copies of the game.

Also, it's worth mentioning that in the Wii version, they mirrored the entire game so that Link could be right handed.

Admittedly, the Wii version did sell better. But I attribute that entirely to it being a Wii launch title. Plus, the GC version came out later, once people had moved on from that console.

What was wrong with WW's dungeons? They felt the exact same as Ocarina's and Twilight Princess' to me.

It's not that I disagree with you, it's just been so long since I played any of those particular three and in my memory, the dungeons were pretty much the same style in each one.  :sweat: Unless you mean the team-ups with the bird girl and the wood thing, which I would agree was pretty awful.

One more thing, Foggle. I do want to see voice acting in Zelda. I know people are afraid of it, but I think voice acting can only add to the experience as long as it's passable.

Quote from: Nel on April 19, 2012, 11:19:49 AM
What was wrong with WW's dungeons? They felt the exact same as Ocarina's and Twilight Princess' to me.

It's not that I disagree with you, it's just been so long since I played any of those particular three and in my memory, the dungeons were pretty much the same style in each one.  :sweat: Unless you mean the team-ups with the bird girl and the wood thing, which I would agree was pretty awful.

It's the team-ups that I really hate. But even the first few dungeons just feel... dull. Maybe it's just the atmosphere or lack of any real music. I also think they kinda dragged on.

I don't mind the idea of voice acting in Zelda at all, just so long as Link stays traditionally silent. It just wouldn't feel right to hear him talk, IMO, even if he has a good voice actor in his role.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 19, 2012, 11:26:30 AM
I don't mind the idea of voice acting in Zelda at all, just so long as Link stays traditionally silent. It just wouldn't feel right to hear him talk, IMO, even if he has a good voice actor in his role.

That's exactly how I feel. Another idea I occasionally think about is if they just use a made up Hylian language. I think it could be interesting.

Okay, I can kind of agree with the dragging thing. But I did enjoy the music that was there for Temple Of the Gods at least. I just wish they had more dungeons. I always get irritated when a LoZ game has less than 8. Other games in the series spoiled me that way, I guess.

Quote from: Nel on April 19, 2012, 11:52:45 AM
Okay, I can kind of agree with the dragging thing. But I did enjoy the music that was there for Temple Of the Gods at least. I just wish they had more dungeons. I always get irritated when a LoZ game has less than 8. Other games in the series spoiled me that way, I guess.

The Tower of the Gods wasn't terrible, and I enjoyed Forsaken Fortress. But I didn't like the rest. I also don't mind when there are less than eight dungeons, as long as they are made well.

Well, it's more of the missed opportunities that bugged me in WW. The third jewel thing you get from Jabun? Should have had a dungeon at the ruined island to go rescue him and get it. The volcano island and ice islands where you go to get the power bracelet and the other thing. Should have been dungeons. The Triforce piece(s)? Should have been the final dungeon before Ganondorf, instead of a long series of boring treasure hunts via sailing. It just feels like it's had its wings clipped, so to speak.

Yeah, while Wind Waker may actually be my favorite Zelda game, parts of it definitely seem rushed.

Quote from: Nel on April 19, 2012, 12:26:12 PM
Should have had a dungeon at the ruined island to go rescue him and get it.

The Triforce piece(s)? Should have been the final dungeon before Ganondorf, instead of a long series of boring treasure hunts via sailing. 

I actually really liked getting the third pearl. I don't think that was rushed. Too early on in the game to assume that. I think Nintendo just wanted to try something new. Really liked the atmosphere of the whole section. And considering how I feel about WW's dungeons in general, I think it's better they avoided another one. :P

And I didn't mind the Triforce hunt. I really like the freedom you have at that point.

I still like WW the best of all 3D Zeldas, but yeah it was clearly rushed which is why it isn't as perfect as it could be. But man, even playing it now, the can controls, looks, sounds, and just plain feels perfect to play. It's the only 3D Zelda that just fits me like a glove.

It has the best art style, too. I never got the hate.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 19, 2012, 06:35:41 PM
It has the best art style, too. I never got the hate.

Nine year olds raged about it because it was "for babies," basically.

Speaking of art styles, is Zelda ever going to stick with one? When will it ever get over it's identity crisis? :P

I personally love the fact that it changes art-styles so drastically between games. Each art-style suits its respective game just fine, and personally I'd get rather tired of seeing multiple games that stick to the same old art-style over years upon years worth of entries in the series.

Speaking of which, Skyward Sword's art style is... odd. It's like a cross between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. It's good for the most part, but some things just look really off. Out of place.

I haven't played the game yet myself, so I can't really comment too much on it, but I like what I've seen of SS's art-style. It feels very well-suited to a Zelda game and I think it has some of the best character designs of the series. But, once again, that's only based on what I've seen from previews of the game.

The levels themselves (especially areas with water) look excellent, as do the character models for Link and Zelda. The rest of the character/enemy models are a bit strange in that they don't really click with the majority of the game's art... they look like they're either lifted directly from Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. Kinda' awkward at times.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 19, 2012, 06:59:07 PM
I personally love the fact that it changes art-styles so drastically between games. Each art-style suits its respective game just fine, and personally I'd get rather tired of seeing multiple games that stick to the same old art-style over years upon years worth of entries in the series.

No other series changes it's art style the way Zelda constantly does. Why would Zelda in particular bother you if it chose to pick a permanent look?

Plus, games can still use the same style, but have a different aesthetic or feel. Just look at OoT and MM.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.gamefaqs.net%2Fscreens%2F7%2F7%2Fe%2Fgfs_14052_1_2.jpg&hash=26b8deff15f1d41157ab1c021cf5073a536dc214)

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.gamefilia.com%2Ffiles%2Fimce%2Fu573368%2Flegen1_gif.jpeg&hash=d8d79723e53c3b5cbf8c036223d9363cfa89a193)

I might even argue TP is the same style, just upgraded (cause we all know the GC is more powerful than the N64).

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcubemedia.ign.com%2Fcube%2Fimage%2Farticle%2F751%2F751266%2Fthe-legend-of-zelda-twilight-princess-20061215032758558-000.jpg&hash=ef93202854cfd290818f040d6a275b7dd33757e4)

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 19, 2012, 08:23:50 PM
No other series changes it's art style the way Zelda constantly does. Why would Zelda in particular bother you if it chose to pick a permanent look?

I didn't say it would bother me. I said that it would get tiring to use the same art-style over and over again. I LIKE the fact that it changes art-styles. Why is that a hard concept to understand?

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 19, 2012, 08:41:16 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 19, 2012, 08:23:50 PM
No other series changes it's art style the way Zelda constantly does. Why would Zelda in particular bother you if it chose to pick a permanent look?

I didn't say it would bother me. I said that it would get tiring to use the same art-style over and over again. I LIKE the fact that it changes art-styles. Why is that a hard concept to understand?

Take it easy. I wasn't trying to jump on you. :P

I do see what you mean. And typically, the look they pick that suits the game does suit the mood of the games. I just think that, if they pick a versatile look and just stick with it (preferable the OoT-MM-TP-Wii U Tech Demo), the series would have more of an identity (which it had until WW). Plus, they'd be able to focus more on pure game content rather than designing new graphical styles from the ground up. In fact, they once stated that, if SS had TP's graphics, it could've been done by E3 2010. :o

That's just my opinion on the matter.

I wasn't trying to attack you. I was just defending my opinion on the matter.

At any rate I think we can at least agree that most art-styles that each Zelda game picks look good in general. Maybe not all of them can please everyone, but for me its a factor that helps each new entry in the series feel fresh and something that stands on its own.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 19, 2012, 09:52:06 PM
I wasn't trying to attack you. I was just defending my opinion on the matter.

At any rate I think we can at least agree that most art-styles that each Zelda game picks look good in general. Maybe not all of them can please everyone, but for me its a factor that helps each new entry in the series feel fresh and something that stands on its own.

My bad. I took the "hard concept to understand" line the wrong way. :sweat:

Yeah, I do agree with you. Most of them do look great. Which style is your favorite? I like OoT's mostly cause it just suits the series so well. However, I'd say that WW currently looks the best and has the most timeless appearance. Never get tired of looking at that ocean.

Also, I'm not sure if you ever played Four Swords Adventures, but parts of it look lovely. This shot, for example.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freocities.com%2FTimesSquare%2Fcauldron%2F3463%2FRainbowWaterfall.jpg&hash=0f27a9e3a00c9d9c7b5d71d1b2ee29fc11caa944)

I'd have to second the Wind Waker art style being my favorite. Its by far the most unique and has the most appealing character, enemy, and environmental designs to me.

I'm still fond on the Twilight Princess look myself. I think it's a good balance of light and dark, and a less dated take on the OOT/MM style.

The Wind Waker designs definitely get credit for originality and color though.

I think Wind Waker definitely has the best art style. Never get tired of that ocean, and some of the goofy character designs still make me laugh.

My opinion might change once I actually spend some quality time with TP, though.

I love the design to Wind Waker as well. Really, unless your onus on Zelda is that anything and everything look like OoT (which, at the time, was the general perception), I don't know how you cannot like it. The art styles go well beyond "Toon Link", and the overall environments look downright gorgeous at times.

Honestly, I just wish they'd make another game using this art style that's actually, you know, good. I've made it known that Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks simply are not my cup of tea; too slow, too gimmicky, and too dependent on awkward touch-screen controls. I'd love to see another console installment with the WW art style, but unfortunately, that'll probably never happen now. It looks as though the two distinctive art styles are being reserved for only one area of development at a time (OoT/TP style for consoles, WW style for handhelds).

Well, I grew up with the original games and ALTTP so this is basically what I always saw with Zelda:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_l6hwpezPcT1qzj5ggo1_500.jpg&hash=c61917ac71b9025a1fd2f74e895b9b3031599125)

which is why I really liked Wind Waker's art style.

Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 03:59:48 PM
Honestly, I just wish they'd make another game using this art style that's actually, you know, good. I've made it known that Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks simply are not my cup of tea; too slow, too gimmicky, and too dependent on awkward touch-screen controls.

I remember liking Minish Cap. Haven't played it since release, but it was pretty awesome IMO.

Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 05:14:24 PM

Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 03:59:48 PM
Honestly, I just wish they'd make another game using this art style that's actually, you know, good. I've made it known that Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks simply are not my cup of tea; too slow, too gimmicky, and too dependent on awkward touch-screen controls.

I remember liking Minish Cap. Haven't played it since release, but it was pretty awesome IMO.

Pssh, I can't believe I actually forgot about that; probably because it's been so long since I've played it as well.

Yeah, Minish Cap was great from what I remember. A really underrated one too, since you don't hear about it all that much anymore. I should really play it again one of these days.

3DS really needs something like MC. Back to basics 2D Zelda adventure with the Wind Waker art style. Would be amazing.

Minish Cap was the last 2D Zelda, too. I've been wanting another one since.  :cry:

Here's hoping for E3 to surprise...

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 05:33:49 PM
Minish Cap was the last 2D Zelda, too. I've been wanting another one since.  :cry:

Here's hoping for E3 to surprise...

Shit, there hasn't been a true 2D Zelda since MC? What the fuck Nintendo. :wth:

Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 05:34:55 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 05:33:49 PM
Minish Cap was the last 2D Zelda, too. I've been wanting another one since.  :cry:

Here's hoping for E3 to surprise...

Shit, there hasn't been a true 2D Zelda since MC? What the fuck Nintendo. :wth:

No, we haven't gotten one since. After MC we got the DS games which were not traditional at all.

Since they bombed and they know we want classic Zelda again, we can only hope they learned.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnintendo3dsdaily.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Fzelda_swapnote.jpg&hash=068d6ec25333c1000ee97c70d7b801967186519f)

Don't let me down, Nintendo!

I want to see another non-gimmicky 2D Zelda and another 3D Zelda without motion controls before I die. :(

Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 05:42:19 PM
I want to see another non-gimmicky 2D Zelda and another 3D Zelda without motion controls before I die. :(

This. Everything about this, right here.

The DS titles just kill me. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but there's really nothing about them that I like at all. The stylus touch-screen controls are awkward as hell, and nothing about the graphical style appeals to me in the way it's being used (even though they do use the spiffy Wind Waker graphics, it's just not working for me in those two instances). And of course, not to mention, they are the most boring Zelda games ever made. Zelda handhelds used to be a thing of beauty; Minish Cap, Link's Awakening, the ever-so-awesome Oracle titles... I mean, what happened? How did we go from the aforementioned to these?

I find it interesting that Minish Cap and the Oracle games were actually developed by Capcom instead of Nintendo. Clearly they understand what makes a great 2D Zelda better than the original creators...

Link's Awakening is my second favorite Zelda after Wind Waker. I love everything about that game. Third and fourth are the Oracles, and fifth is Majora's Mask. (Ease up, guys; OoT and LttP are sixth and seventh, respectively.) I really feel like the magic has been somewhat lost since WW...

Nintendo was weird with the DS. Some games had forced touch screen stuff it didn't need, and others just used it for simply having a second screen. The games that benefited were traditional games like the Castlevania's for getting a map on the bottom screen, Contra 4 for more screen space, and those touch screen games and gimmicky games like Hatsworth. Zelda didn't do any of that.

Zelda simply took control away from you and dumbed everything down because Zelda wasn't made for touch screen, and used boring gimmicks to fill time. Considering the Game Boy games were known for pushing the classic Zelda style forward with each game, these were massive disappointments.

But the weird part was, they only did this to Zelda and Metroid. We never got a 2D Metroid that could take advantage of dual screens for maps, or a traditional Zelda that could use touch screens for item management (until the OoT remake), despite them being obvious choices.

Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 05:57:50 PM
I find it interesting that Minish Cap and the Oracle games were actually developed by Capcom instead of Nintendo. Clearly they understand what makes a great 2D Zelda better than the original creators...

Specifically Flagship who Nintendo now owns. And made Skyward Sword.

I really like every traditional Zelda after the NES games a lot. There's nothing quite like a fun top down Zelda. Though I do like the 3D games, The 2D ones are just faster to me.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 05:59:03 PM
We never got a 2D Metroid that could take advantage of dual screens for maps

Ugh, don't remind me. Hunters was complete garbage. FPS do not belong on portable consoles...

STILL WAITING FOR METROID 5, NINTENDO. OTHER M DOESN'T COUNT.

Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 06:03:37 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 05:59:03 PM
We never got a 2D Metroid that could take advantage of dual screens for maps

Ugh, don't remind me. Hunters was complete garbage. FPS do not belong on portable consoles...

STILL WAITING FOR METROID 5, NINTENDO. OTHER M DOESN'T COUNT.

It was even worse for me because I thought Zero Mission and Fusion were on par with Super and to see them passed over like that for an entire generation was a total letdown.

Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 05:42:19 PM
I want to see another non-gimmicky 2D Zelda and another 3D Zelda without motion controls before I die. :(

The handheld Zelda games are no more gimmicky than the console ones.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 20, 2012, 06:30:32 PM

Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 05:42:19 PM
I want to see another non-gimmicky 2D Zelda and another 3D Zelda without motion controls before I die. :(

The handheld Zelda games are no more gimmicky than the console ones.

"Gimmicky" is in reference to the control scheme. The only similarly gimmicky console Zelda is Skyward Sword.

I can still move Link with the analogue stick in the Wii games, so I have no complaints.

I like the DS Zelda games. Sue me. :P

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 20, 2012, 10:16:04 AM
Yeah, I do agree with you. Most of them do look great. Which style is your favorite? I like OoT's mostly cause it just suits the series so well. However, I'd say that WW currently looks the best and has the most timeless appearance. Never get tired of looking at that ocean.

I feel like elaborating on this post.

I said WW looks the best of the games so far, but that doesn't necessarily mean I like it's style the best. I actually prefer OoT's style. Artwork like this is beautiful.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rapidfiregames.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fpics%2Fzeldaocarinaoftime3D%2Fart-001.jpg&hash=524387d38f1b76806f1aacfb0c8bb4f318f17e1b)

However, despite this, I don't think OoT's style has been used to it's fullest potential (OoT 3D looked like crap). WW's, on the other hand, was so simple and achievable on the GC. Hence why it looks so stunning.

(To be specific, I like MM's look better than OoT's. But it kinda falls under the same heading. Even so, the artistic choices made with MM are just great.)

Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 05:42:19 PM
I want to see another non-gimmicky 2D Zelda and another 3D Zelda without motion controls before I die. :(

If you don't want to see them use WMP again, there's hope for you. SS was a failure for Nintendo and one of their biggest financial mistakes ever, so they might not want to stick with WMP after all. Besides, if any franchise can show off the Wii U controller's potential, I feel like it's Zelda.

Quote from: Avaitor on April 20, 2012, 12:47:51 PM
I'm still fond on the Twilight Princess look myself. I think it's a good balance of light and dark, and a less dated take on the OOT/MM style.

I think TP itself looks dated. But again, it's style carries so much potential. All I need to do is link to that screenshot of the Zelda Wii U tech demo.

http://greatgamingcrusade.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/ZeldaWiiUScreen.jpg

Simply gorgeous.

If they made Zelda Wii U look like that, it would sell like hotcakes and make Zelda a big seller again.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 20, 2012, 07:34:05 PM
SS was a failure for Nintendo and one of their biggest financial mistakes ever

...What? Really!? That's incredibly surprising.

Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 07:45:45 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 20, 2012, 07:34:05 PM
SS was a failure for Nintendo and one of their biggest financial mistakes ever

...What? Really!? That's incredibly surprising.

It makes sense if you think about it. SS's controls probably put off so many people. And supposedly it was one of Nintendo's most expensive games to make, ever. In addition, they've admitted themselves that they had expectations for the game, and it didn't meet them. The game sold quite well in the first month... but not at all since.

I was kinda up for Nintendo pulling another MM style sequel to SS, where they'd recycle everything and quickly pump out a direct sequel within a year or two (and this would make sense because the Wii will continue it's life cycle even when the Wii U is out). But from Nintendo's point of view, this probably isn't worth it.

Feel like posting my favorites from the series. Like before, I'm just gonna break them into tiers. I assume you're all familiar with the abbreviations?

Tier 1 - MM, TP, SS, WW
Tier 2 - OoT, ALttP, LA, ST
Tier 3 - LoZ, AoL, FSA, MC
Tier 4 - OoS, OoA, PH, FS

WW, ST, and MC are at the very bottom of their tiers. And yes, I did just put ST pretty high up.

EDIT: Sorry about the double post. Someone can merge them if that's better.

Oracles in bottom tier.

:burn:

Spirit Tracks over ever single 2D game other the ALTTP and LA?  :butbut:

Well, I respect your opinion and all, but no way in hell will I ever agree with anyone about the Oracle games being bottom tier Zelda games.

For me they are the best 2D Zelda games by far (the only one that I haven't really played enough of is Minish Cap, but I'll get into that one of these days).

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 21, 2012, 05:50:58 PM
Well, I respect your opinion and all, but no way in hell will I ever agree with anyone about the Oracle games being bottom tier Zelda games.

For me they are the best 2D Zelda games by far (the only one that I haven't really played enough of is Minish Cap, but I'll get into that one of these days).

Agreed. :thumbup:

The Oracle games were great. There's so much content in them, and together they make quite a long and epic adventure.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 21, 2012, 05:54:51 PM
The Oracle games were great. There's so much content in them, and together they make quite a long and epic adventure.

Are they available on the 3DS virtual console? I know Link's Awakening is.

The Oracles were the best thing to happen to handheld Zelda. Any handheled LoZ that's come out since has failed to measure.

Quote from: Foggle on April 21, 2012, 05:56:34 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 21, 2012, 05:54:51 PM
The Oracle games were great. There's so much content in them, and together they make quite a long and epic adventure.

Are they available on the 3DS virtual console? I know Link's Awakening is.

No.

Quote from: Foggle on April 21, 2012, 05:56:34 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 21, 2012, 05:54:51 PM
The Oracle games were great. There's so much content in them, and together they make quite a long and epic adventure.

Are they available on the 3DS virtual console? I know Link's Awakening is.

They probably will be sooner or later.

So far Zelda 1, 2, Minish Cap (for ambassadors), and Link's Awakening DX are on it with rumors of ALTTP as a 3D Classic. So basically it seems like all the 2D games will be on there eventually.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 21, 2012, 05:14:13 PM
Spirit Tracks over ever single 2D game other the ALTTP and LA?  :butbut:

LoZ is a good game and very important... But it's definitely dated. A lot.

AoL is also good, but again, dated. It's combat relies more on memorization than skill, practically.

OoS & OoA... this part is directed at everyone who's curious about this placement of them. I like these games, but I don't have the best memory of them. Last time I played them was... I don't even remember. I do remember OoA being a bit of a chore, and the bosses in both were a bit "meh", but we'll see what happens when I replay them some day.

FS was a fun multiplayer game... That's all I can say.

FSA was a very fun multiplayer game... Again, that's all I can say.

MC was great... But I find it to be a little generic and forgettable in comparison to the others.

PH... is this thing a game, or a tech demo? :P

(Let me know if I missed any.)

I really loved ST. I don't feel it's the right direction for the series. But for what it is, it's great.

No, it's fine. It's your opinion. I just didn't really enjoy the DS games all that much.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 21, 2012, 06:59:27 PM
No, it's fine. It's your opinion. I just didn't really enjoy the DS games all that much.

I can at least agree that PH wasn't too great. That game could've used more time in development.

As for SS's graphics, I like them. Realistic proportions and cel-shading. TP meets WW, with a touch of "impressionism" to hide the Wii's attempt to cope with the game's size. I feel like it's a very good way for the series to express itself, and I wouldn't be against them sticking with it.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwiimedia.ign.com%2Fwii%2Fimage%2Farticle%2F121%2F1210401%2Fthe-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword-20111021110920212-000.jpg&hash=c53dc40f46d51438f1c804359b1816d07d4a92c4)

I think Miyamoto and Aonuma even said they found the perfect Zelda graphical style with this game.

You guys ever see these re-textured images of TP? I'll post the original pictures, and then the re-textured ones so you can compare them directly.

ORIGINAL
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fnews%2F2010%2F08%2Ftwilight_princess_with_high_res_textures_looks_fantastic%2Fattachment%2F2%2Flarge.jpg&hash=4b7d296b2c91bdc47f87a0bcac2889703f86ec49)

UPDATED
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fnews%2F2010%2F08%2Ftwilight_princess_with_high_res_textures_looks_fantastic%2Fattachment%2F3%2Flarge.jpg&hash=701c2c2f7bf711aeebf391c75e71a2537b2c1865)

ORIGINAL
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fnews%2F2010%2F08%2Ftwilight_princess_with_high_res_textures_looks_fantastic%2Fattachment%2F1%2Flarge.jpg&hash=cf949091d8635a7d05f9083d9ac9b3a7a5d5c997)

UPDATED
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fnews%2F2010%2F08%2Ftwilight_princess_with_high_res_textures_looks_fantastic%2Fattachment%2F0%2Flarge.jpg&hash=8acf00195009ef63566a6bfacd8e3f0a5714876d)

Miyamoto and the crew were planning on improving the graphics for the Wii version, but they ran out of time. So these images can probably give us a good idea of what it potentially could've looked like.

Dayum, those updated textures are real pretty.

Quote from: Foggle on April 30, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Dayum, those updated textures are real pretty.

Definitely brings the game's look up to date.

By the way, to anyone playing SS... there's a free "patch" in the Wii shop that you should download. Why? Because there's an end-game glitch in the game. :o

A patch!? For a Wii game?! Madness!

Quote from: Foggle on May 01, 2012, 12:07:57 AM
A patch!? For a Wii game?! Madness!

It feels so old school in comparison to the typical patch. :P

So most of my Club Nintendo points were going to expire soon. Since the games currently available didn't interest me too much, I went with these.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F29.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m3q9u3oMrm1r6se0bo1_500.jpg&hash=c89948cb38e33810d785e7be366ae14b76723228)

I'm saving them for when I move to Orlando, although I might put the middle up now.

Quote from: Brak's Dad on May 08, 2012, 06:47:29 PM
So most of my Club Nintendo points were going to expire soon. Since the games currently available didn't interest me too much, I went with these.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcheck%2520out%2520what%2520came%2520in%2520the%2520mail%2520today.%3Cbr%2520%2F%253E%253Cbr%2520%2F%253EI%3Fm%2520saving%2520these%2520for%2520when%2520I%2520go%2520to%2520Orlando.%2520But%2520I%2520might%2520hang%2520up%2520the%2520middle%2520now%2C%2520though.&hash=2d197735359f0690a2d0e166c9532f9322333c32)

I'm saving them for when I move to Orlando, although I might put the middle up now.

What games?

Yeah, I don't see anything.

Goddammit, I'm so fucking stupid. c/ped the wrong thing.

Edited my post, so check that out.

Very cool! I need more posters, myself. :thumbup:

Wow, Zelda Wii-U will probably look amazing going on history:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJVqJd.jpg&hash=aaf6b2bb1d3f5c654adf07044b130f1ab77209c2)

Someone made this based on Nintendo's data:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamescharts.fr%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2Fgraphgaf2.png&hash=d6365bdb0dfbfdf2be10bbab29c3fb64aba433cb)

Maybe that will preempt some future arguments!

So if you combine the Wii and GC versions together, Twilight Princess is the highest seller. Interesting.

Also it should be mentioned those SS sales are based on only 5 months. When all is said and done it'll probably be rated #4 behind OoT, LoZ, and TP. I would like to have seen the Oracle games for comparison, too.

Anyway, I think this proves that there really isn't any Zelda fatigue. Just people who don't want non-traditional touch screen gameplay judging from the drop off.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamescharts.fr%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2Fretrowzelda32.png&hash=1dec47e5762646211961f85a15d44869801dbce4)

A few more for remakes and spin offs.

Too bad there's no data for the Oracles, or Minish Cap.

IMO this is what they should be doing for the next handheld Zelda (going back to what works). No more touchscreen-only games kthx.

I would imagine they sold around the same as the LADX and LTTP remakes on their systems. To be honest, all I really want is a classic top down Zelda for the 3DS, a *NLOZ* if you will.

Since we already have an OoT remake and most likely a MM one, we're pretty well covered for the 3D ones.

If you combine Wii and GC, TP is around OoT's level. But if we're combining, OoT is still #1 including the remake. And that doesn't count all the ports.

As for SS, I doubt it'll go down as one of the top sellers. It sold quickly in the first week, but after the first month, it's sales have basically come to a screeching halt.

All those games also had budget releases (except the DS ones) which shot sales up a lot for them. It's actually why Super Mario Galaxy is so high on the Mario list since otherwise it was around Galaxy 2's sales which didn't have a budget release. I imagine by the end of its life SS will be at least #4 on the list.

I still think they should try a New Legend Of Zelda style of game if only to see how it does.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 24, 2012, 05:54:54 PMI imagine by the end of its life SS will be at least #4 on the list.

To achieve that, copies of SS would need to be getting sold. The game's been out for only six months, and that's already stopped happening. :happytime:

Quote from: talonmalon333 on May 25, 2012, 12:35:33 AM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 24, 2012, 05:54:54 PMI imagine by the end of its life SS will be at least #4 on the list.

To achieve that, copies of SS would need to be getting sold. The game's been out for only six months, and that's already stopped happening. :happytime:

A budget release alone would already put it over those. The game is still selling right now, just not amazingly.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 25, 2012, 12:45:50 AM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on May 25, 2012, 12:35:33 AM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 24, 2012, 05:54:54 PMI imagine by the end of its life SS will be at least #4 on the list.

To achieve that, copies of SS would need to be getting sold. The game's been out for only six months, and that's already stopped happening. :happytime:

A budget release alone would already put it over those. The game is still selling right now, just not amazingly.

That should happen soon enough. More and more I've been (slowly) noticing new additions to the "Nintendo Selects" line. It's taken them a lot longer to get with this than it did for the GameCube, but I blame that on the Wii being a lot more popular. They needed to do everything they could to spur Cube sales; I can still remember the days of the Double Dash pack-in set going for only $99, and the Wii was still light years away at that point.

Prediction: SS, Galaxy 2, DKCR, Wario Land Shake It (can't believe this isn't here already; it's a lot older than most of these, yet it's still going for full price everywhere I see it) and Return to Dreamland should all be included on the budget list within the next year or two. By that point, the Wii U should be ready to go, and I can imagine most of these big box stores will want to clear out the old stuff sooner rather than later (some of the lesser known additions like Epic Mickey are already down to as low as $10, and those aren't even included in the Selects line).

Bought Link's Awakening on the 3DS store. First time playing it since 1999, I think.

Blasting through the dungeons. It's funny, there will be parts I had trouble with as a kid that I am doing with no trouble, and other parts I remember breezing by that I can't for the life of me figure out now. XD Heck, some parts I didn't even remember existed.

But yeah, after finally playing ALttP last summer for the first time, and replaying this, I gotta say: I want a new top-down Zelda game in the style of these. The last time I had this much fun with Zelda was Minish Cap.

Oh. And I want the Oracle games in the 3DS store. Right the hell now.  ;D

Minish Cap is really underrated. Seems to almost be a forgotten relic in the Zelda series anymore; hardly hear anyone talk about it (heck, even I forgot to mention it at one point a while ago when we were talking about this). I should get around to playing it again one of these days.

I miss classic handheld Zelda so much, though. I really, really hope they don't go back to the well and give us another touchscreen PH/ST repeat for the next handheld installment (I've made my disdain for those two well known by now, so I'll stop here). They've been going old-school with Mario sidescrollers since 2006, now let's give top-down Zelda some love.

Quote from: Kiddington on May 25, 2012, 01:54:15 AM
Minish Cap is really underrated. Seems to almost be a forgotten relic in the Zelda series anymore; hardly hear anyone talk about it (heck, even I forgot to mention it at one point a while ago when we were talking about this). I should get around to playing it again one of these days.

I miss classic handheld Zelda so much, though. I really, really hope they don't go back to the well and give us another touchscreen PH/ST repeat for the next handheld installment (I've made my disdain for those two well known by now, so I'll stop here). They've been going old-school with Mario sidescrollers since 2006, now let's give top-down Zelda some love.

Well, luckily the 3DS seems to focus more on the 3D screen for the main action while the touch screen takes the role of handling all the extra stuff, so I think the chance of a PH/SS style game are slimmer because of that.

They've said the next handheld will not be stylus controlled, due to the 3D nature of the console.

Finished Link's Awakening on the 3DS VC today. What a blast from the past that was. Way easier than when I was a kid, but the ending still guts me. Always tried to play a no-death game just so Marin can live on as a seagull after the island disappears.  :'(

I'm currently playing Minish Cap on my 3DS and am totally digging this.

We need a new Zelda like this badly, just playing through it (and barely remembering it) and I'm constantly reminded at why this is my favorite style of Zelda.

E3 can't come soon enough!

I beat Minish Cap and I remain impressed. It was quite the fun game.

My only issue? The length. Plot-wise, I guess it makes sense since you're constructing the Four Sword (This is where it originates) and fighting Vaati for the first time so collecting the 4 elements makes sense. They try to make up for it, though. There's usually quite a lot to do between most dungeons, and a lot of kinstones to keep you busy, the only issue being that there are no sidequests or hidden items outside of them leading to them being rather limiting unless you seek them out. Still, 6 excellent dungeons, great weapons, and fantastic game-play make it a great Zelda game.

My only story-ish gripe is that Skyward Sword Link has the cap when the cap is supposed to originate here as Ezlo. Even the stain-glass of Link's predecessor (obviously SS) isn't wearing the cap, it is an element they should have kept. I like being reminded of Ezlo as he's the best sidekick Link has ever had.

Nonetheless, I enjoy top down classic Zelda, and I can only hope for more of it in the future (and hopefully next week at E3) as it truly is my favorite type.

And one of my personal favorite items that the 3D games have continually failed for not including:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fzelda%2Fimages%2F8%2F89%2FRoc%2527s_Cape_%28The_Minish_Cap%29.png&hash=d08c4f961884e7560c8885cbfc1043c23eb79aba)

I think MC was meant to be the origin of the cap, but they scrapped that idea.

In fact, I've always believed MC was originally meant to be a sort of origin story for the series. The Japanese version even ends saying saying "This is the end of Link's first adventure". Want more evidence? Look at this beta shot of MC.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeldainformer.com%2FImages%2Farticles%2Fmc_logo_old.jpg&hash=9a4cd93f794d95ecd4c420fcf21a3fb5d77f932d)

What do you see there? Yep, it's the Master Sword, instead of the Four Sword. Being that MC tells the story of the Four Sword's creation, it's very possible that it was originally going to be the story of the Master Sword's creation, a story that, as we all know, became the basis of SS's story.

MC and SS also had the same director, Hidemaro Fujibayashi. Some more food for thought, eh?

Weird. But cool.

Still, I like the cap basically being a gift from Ezlo explaining where Link got the iconic cap from. It was a nice touch.

Is it just me or are there too many Zelda games that have seemingly gone back in time to try and be "the origin" story? First it was A Link to the Past that was supposed to be the origin. But then Ocarina of Time came out and that was supposed to be the origin of origins. But then Majora's Mask complicated the timeline even more by taking place between Link's childhood and adulthood from Ocarina of Time....or was it the same time as his childhood from OoT since he was still a kid? You see, I don't even know, because its as confusing as shit. Then The Minish Cap came out and it was supposed to tell one of the earliest tales of Link. And recently we had Skyward Sword which has been toted as "the origin of origin stories" for the series. Why do I get the feeling that within the next decade we'll get at least another Zelda game or 2 that goes even further back and claims to be the REAL origin story? Why can't the series either just move forward or just be a series of seemingly parallel Universes that don't necessarily have any coherent continuity with one another? I like the games well enough as stand alone titles. Zelda has never had any appeal to anyone for continuity, anyways.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 02, 2012, 12:17:52 AM
Is it just me or are there too many Zelda games that have seemingly gone back in time to try and be "the origin" story. First it was A Link to the Past that was supposed to be the origin. But then Ocarina of Time came out and that was supposed to be the origin of origins. But then Majora's Mask complicated the timeline even more by taking place between Link's childhood and adulthood from Ocarina of Time....or was it the same time as his childhood from OoT since he was still a kid? You see, I don't even know, because its as confusing as shit. Then the Minish Cap came out and was supposed to tell one of the earliest tales of Link. And recently we has Skyward Sword which has been toted as "the origin of origin stories" for the series. Why do I get the feeling that within the next decade we'll get at least another Zelda game or 2 that goes even further back and claims to be the REAL origin story? Why can't the series either just move forward or just be a series of seemingly parallel Universes that don't necessarily have any coherent continuity with one another? I like the games well enough as stand alone titles, anyways? Zelda has never had any appeal to anyone for continuity, anyways.

I agree with you, I've been wanting an actual Zelda 2 sequel for the longest time.

I accepted Minish Cap for not only showing the creation of the Four Sword (and all subsequent Four Sword games) as well as the hat, but I could have done without SS being ANOTHER early story.

I hope the next Zelda is post-Zelda 2 finally.

I don't really pay attention to the plot or continuity in Zelda games. At this point, even Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden 2 make more sense than the LoZ canon...

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 12:21:00 AM
I hope the next Zelda is post-Zelda 2 finally.

Isn't Twilight Princess post-Zelda 2?

I understand why they keep on trying to make "origin" Zelda games, since there's a market to sell origin stories once every few years, but it's such a mindfuck to consider what's canon and what's not that I don't see why anyone would go out of their way to.

Quote from: Foggle on June 02, 2012, 12:22:26 AM
I don't really pay attention to the plot or continuity in Zelda games. At this point, even Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden 2 make more sense than the LoZ canon...

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 12:21:00 AM
I hope the next Zelda is post-Zelda 2 finally.

Isn't Twilight Princess post-Zelda 2?

... This is why the Zelda timeline is so annoying. I really hope we get a parallel dimension game that merges all three timelines together again so things can go back to normal. The three streams makes it really confusing.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeldauniverse.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2007%2F08%2Ftimeline.jpg&hash=bdd5cdab066957b039cffc722145696d2ac79d43)

Zelda 2 is still the last game in the series... Despite being the second game made.  :-[

I agree. I almost yelled at the screen when Skyward Sword changed the origin.

"What?! A warrior outfit? No! No no no! It was a gift from the... the thing! The hat thing! That used to be a midget thing!"  :unimpressed:

Man, i love Minish Cap. I believe there was data that showed that the Royal Crypt was going to be a full blown level at some point. I think the only problems I had with the game were the length (Only, what, six dungeons?) and that it was a tad too easy. I've never died in that game. Not once. I remember getting so pumped after beating that the first run-through with no deaths that I popped right into A Link To The Past on GBA. ALttP kicked my sorry ass so hard, I was discouraged from playing the thing until 2011. Also, the map seemed a bit... small. Then again, I just played Link's Awakening, and looking at that and the Oracle games' overworld maps, they all seem smaller than I remember. But with MC, it's something I noticed on the first playthrough.

That's really interesting that the Master Sword was originally there first. Probably would have made for an amazing tale if it explained that sword's origin too, and having Vaati involved with the whole ordeal. Speaking of which, this incarnation of Vaati made him my favorite series villain. Seriously, it made FSA disappointing in hindsight because he was so cool in this. They need to bring him back sometime in that grey-skinned form, and the eye form can stay as his "Ganon transformation" equivalent. Ganondorf's featured enough, let Vaati hijack the plot sometime.

*Remembers when he thought Ghirahim was Vaati, and got his hopes up*

EDIT: (while I was typing this, 5 replies had been posted. Sweet mother of shit. XD) I agree that we need a game down the line that fuses the timelines together again. Maybe play in three different styles in one game? (Overhead, realistic, cel-shaded, etc.). Also, agree on the origin stories. Seems like they focus on "no this is the real beginning" a few too many times.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 12:28:05 AM
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/timeline.jpg

Oh wow! That makes Metal Gear look coherent. :o

Metal Gear's timeline is easy.

Big Boss is weird-

Metal Gear Solid 3
Peace Walker

Snake is a rookie-

Metal Gear
Metal Gear 2

Snake has a fever dream while recovering-

Snake's Revenge

Snake is called back into action-

Metal Gear Solid

Snake retires with Meryl and lives happily ever after.


And that's the Metal Gear story.

What about Portable Ops and Rising? ???

Oh, and Ghost Babel! Can't forget that one.

Ghost Babel is apparently an alternate universe, same with the Ac!d games. I wish the Ghost Babel universe was canon.  :-\

Quote from: Foggle on June 02, 2012, 12:39:23 AM
What about Portable Ops and Rising? ???

Oh forgot about those.

Portable Ops is probably between 3 and PW and Rising is a long time after MGS1 since it's basically a new story.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 12:41:19 AM
Ghost Babel is apparently an alternate universe, same with the Ac!d games. I wish the Ghost Babel universe was canon.  :-\

Oh, I see. Are the Ac!d games any good? They're the only ones I haven't played.

Also, it's interesting to note in that Zelda timeline that ALTTP Link was in the highest concentration of games (and IMO, the best ones), compared to any of the others.

Quote from: Foggle on June 02, 2012, 12:43:18 AM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 12:41:19 AM
Ghost Babel is apparently an alternate universe, same with the Ac!d games. I wish the Ghost Babel universe was canon.  :-\

Oh, I see. Are the Ac!d games any good? They're the only ones I haven't played.

They're different. I never got around to 2 since it was nigh impossible to find around here, but they were an interesting idea of blending stealth and strategy gameplay together. People were no very receptive to them however because they wanted a normal stealth game.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 12:28:05 AM

Quote from: Foggle on June 02, 2012, 12:22:26 AM
I don't really pay attention to the plot or continuity in Zelda games. At this point, even Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden 2 make more sense than the LoZ canon...

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 12:21:00 AM
I hope the next Zelda is post-Zelda 2 finally.

Isn't Twilight Princess post-Zelda 2?

... This is why the Zelda timeline is so annoying. I really hope we get a parallel dimension game that merges all three timelines together again so things can go back to normal. The three streams makes it really confusing.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeldauniverse.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2007%2F08%2Ftimeline.jpg&hash=bdd5cdab066957b039cffc722145696d2ac79d43)

Zelda 2 is still the last game in the series... Despite being the second game made.  :-[

Eh, merging the timelines would just make an even bigger mess of things, IMO. I like the split timeline idea, it gives Nintendo more leeway to take bigger risks with the franchise without completely screwing it over (e.g If they make a drastic change to a game set in one timeline that gets badly recepted, they always have another timeline to fall back on). Too bad they seem more focused on going backwards rather than forwards.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 12:47:40 AM
Also, it's interesting to not in that Zelda timeline that ALTTP Link was in the highest concentration of games (and IMO, the best ones), compared to any of the others.

I've been making this joke about how I'm glad Link was killed by Ganon so that timeline could exist. Most of my favorite games in the series are in that timeline.  :awesome:

Poor ALttP Link, though. Saves Hyrule, Holodrum, and Labrynna from Ganon (within two separate occasions), gets stuck on an island that doesn't actually exist, gets crushed on by a girl who's actually a seagull, and gets stranded in the middle of the ocean after it's all said and done. I hope that bigass whale gave him a lift home.

Quote from: Nel on June 02, 2012, 01:04:45 AM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 12:47:40 AM
Also, it's interesting to not in that Zelda timeline that ALTTP Link was in the highest concentration of games (and IMO, the best ones), compared to any of the others.

I've been making this joke about how I'm glad Link was killed by Ganon so that timeline could exist. Most of my favorite games in the series are in that timeline.  :awesome:

Poor ALttP Link, though. Saves Hyrule, Holodrum, and Labrynna from Ganon (within two separate occasions), gets stuck on an island that doesn't actually exist, gets crushed on by a girl who's actually a seagull, and gets stranded in the middle of the ocean after it's all said and done. I hope that bigass whale gave him a lift home.

I think he got a better fate to him than Kid Link from OoT... Who apparently never made it out of the forest in Majora's Mask.

Then there's Adult Link's world getting flooded out...

Wow, OoT did a lot of damage to Zelda's world!

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 01, 2012, 11:24:49 PM
Weird. But cool.

Still, I like the cap basically being a gift from Ezlo explaining where Link got the iconic cap from. It was a nice touch.

AoL was meant to be the story about "the first Zelda". That's no longer the case, either. :P

Also, OoT was meant to be the "Imprisoning War", which is the backstory of ALttP. That's been changed.

I think the timeline is somewhat interesting. After beating games, I enjoy wondering where they go in relation to the other games. I just wish that Nintendo would adhere to their original intent a little bit more. I also think they shouldn't have revealed the timeline. I don't have many issues with the timeline itself. I just think, by keeping it a secret, not only does it keep interest up, it also emphasizes the fact that the timeline isn't important to the individual games. We simply don't have to know it to enjoy the games.

... But if any of you are curious what I think, FS should be after TP, and featuring the same Link as in FSA. It just makes the continuity so much better.

I love that so much. Despite Demise's curse basically ensuring that Link would come back to fight Ganondorf eventually, the gods basically say "fuck it" and drown everything. Like that's their own solution to stop the curse, and then there's that awkward moment when they realize some Hylians actually survived.  :D

Whoa, maybe you should put a spoiler warning in there. :sweat:

I always thought FSA was just kind of haphazardly placed in the timeline. There isn't any reason it couldn't take place... well, anywhere else. It was probably put there to fill space.  :P

Four Swords taking place right after Minish Cap feels weird, too. Vaati should have been sealed a little bit longer than that!

Quote from: Nel on June 02, 2012, 01:21:55 AM
I love that so much. Despite Demise's curse basically ensuring that Link would come back to fight Ganondorf eventually, the gods basically say "fuck it" and drown everything. Like that's their own solution to stop the curse, and then there's that awkward moment when they realize some Hylians actually survived.  :D

So weird that they didn't do that when Link actually "lost", though. But then we wouldn't have gotten the "classic Zelda" timeline which is why I assume it was put there as that is basically the original timeline from NES to GBC.

Honestly, I haven't payed attention to the Zelda timeline since... well, ever. Trying to piece this series together into one coherent string of events, it's just...  :whuh:

Better for my sanity that way. I just like to think in the back of my mind that somehow, someway, it all works, and I don't dare question it.  :P

Oh, hell. Sorry Talon. I thought it had been out long enough.

How do I set spoilers on this board? What I usually do on other boards isn't working here.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 01:25:02 AM
I always thought FSA was just kind of haphazardly placed in the timeline. There isn't any reason it couldn't take place... well, anywhere else. It was probably put there to fill space.  :P

It actually fits after TP decently. If you remember, at the end of TP (SPOILER ALERT)...

Ganon states that "this battle doesn't end here", or something along those lines. Basically, saying that he'd return... FSA is the only game where it's flat out stated that this is a new/reincarnated Ganon.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 01:25:02 AMFour Swords taking place right after Minish Cap feels weird, too. Vaati should have been sealed a little bit longer than that!

My main issue is that FSA acts like it's the same Link that defeated Vaati in FS. The intro even states that, after FS, Hyrule remained in a state of peace... Which hardly makes sense if Hyrule was in danger several times between games. :P

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 01:25:02 AMSo weird that they didn't do that when Link actually "lost", though. But then we wouldn't have gotten the "classic Zelda" timeline which is why I assume it was put there as that is basically the original timeline from NES to GBC.

They flooded Hyrule before WW cause the Hylians couldn't stop Ganon. But in the classic Zelda timeline (commonly known as the "Decline Timeline", or DT) the Sages could still face Ganon, and I believe Hyrule's knights were still alive.

I've always really liked WW's ending, cause it ensured the end of the battle, and opens up a new future for the history of the world. Hyrule's gone, Ganon's been destroyed for good, and Link and Tetra sail "wherever the wind takes them"... Though they ended up making two sequels to this ending. :P

FSA's placement in the timeline is somehwat odd because, iirc, it explained how Ganon got his Trident. But that's the only game in the timeline where Ganon appears with his trident.

There just feels like a giant amount of time between Twilight Princess and FSA and it feels like something is missing. Probably because that timeline was shaping up to be pretty grim (MM and TP), and all of a sudden things are normal again in FSA.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on June 02, 2012, 01:31:27 AMI've always really liked WW's ending, cause it ensured the end of the battle, and opens up a new future for the history of the world. Hyrule's gone, Ganon's been destroyed for good, and Link and Tetra sail "wherever the wind takes them"... Though they ended up making two sequels to this ending. :P

Well, aren't the sequels just their continuing adventures?  ??? There basically is no more Hyrule in that timeline, which is why those games are so different.

However, I do like the three timelines for having different approaches (the classic one, the dark one, and the new world one) but I would like them to converge on one again at some point. They can always go back and tell other series in the timelines if they want, but I would prefer having things straightforward again.

But despite all this, I don't really care all that much about the timeline as a whole. It's just fun to discuss when bored.  :P

Quote from: Rynnec on June 02, 2012, 01:36:00 AM
FSA's placement in the timeline is somehwat odd because, iirc, it explained how Ganon got his Trident. But that's the only game in the timeline where Ganon appears with his trident.

Admittedly, that's weird. There was a time when I thought the timeline contained a straight line of "MC-FS-FSA-ALttP-OoX-LA-LoZ-AoL", mainly cause FSA contains so many elements of ALttP, and introduces the Trident. It also shows Ganon getting sealed away, which is how we find him in ALttP.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 01:41:35 AM
There just feels like a giant amount of time between Twilight Princess and FSA and it feels like something is missing. Probably because that timeline was shaping up to be pretty grim (MM and TP), and all of a sudden things are normal again in FSA.

Don't forget. There's still time for more games to happen after TP. I wouldn't be surprised if Zelda Wii U is a sequel to TP, in fact.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 01:41:35 AM
Well, aren't the sequels just their continuing adventures?  ??? There basically is no more Hyrule in that timeline, which is why those games are so different.

True. It's just that, in my opinion, WW is such a good finale that I think no games should've ever come after it. Before PH came out, I believed that the intent was to leave the future of the world up to the player's imagination. ST introduces a new Hyrule (that's not a spoiler, as it's mentioned in the manual for the game). This New Hyrule is so different that it's no big deal... But I don't know. I feel like I didn't need the future of this timeline explained to me. :-\

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 01:41:35 AMHowever, I do like the three timelines for having different approaches (the classic one, the dark one, and the new world one) but I would like them to converge on one again at some point. They can always go back and tell other series in the timelines if they want, but I would prefer having things straightforward again.

But if the timelines merged together, what would become the real one? Would the Great Sea suddenly vanish, or would it drop onto all the people that were living content in Hyrule in the other timelines? Merging them is just a messy idea, in my opinion. :P

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 02, 2012, 01:41:35 AMBut despite all this, I don't really care all that much about the timeline as a whole. It's just fun to discuss when bored.  :P

That's good. I was kind of worried that my timeline knowledge would bore you guys, but I'm glad that some of you are at least a little interested.

Quote from: Nel on June 02, 2012, 01:30:54 AM
Oh, hell. Sorry Talon. I thought it had been out long enough.

How do I set spoilers on this board? What I usually do on other boards isn't working here.

I'm not sure. You might want to ask one of the staff members here. :P

Anyone here hear about that (obviously fake) Majora's Mask Wii U trailer?

Nope. What went down?

Yeah, I didn't buy it before it was even confirmed as fake. Nintendo already confirmed a new 3DS Zelda was coming before any more remakes.

Here it is, Foggle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyazYYev7Nw

As stated before, it must be fake. As for my personal opinions on if they made a game like it, I'm mixed. On one hand, it resembles the MM artwork more. But on the other, it's a little over the top.

Very cool video, even if it is fake! :)

Here's something that ya'll should know.

The Legend of Zelda: Battle Quest, one of the games in NintendoLand, can be played with either WMP or the GamePad. Take that however you like.

Last night was the 2nd day of my first playthrough of Ocarina Of Time. I fought and then after a few tries, killed the first boss, that spider thing or whatever it is. Then I did a bunch of traveling around on the map, went to the ranch, got the shield I can't use yet, went into every place I could find in Hyrule Village and got all the way up to the guarded gate that blocks the path to the castle. Tonight I will get past that part.

I don't think I've ever seen any cutscenes in this game before. I've never played it before, I've just seen my old friend play a few parts, namely the end. So I was like "Oh purdy" during the Ganon and then the 3 Goddesses cutscenes.

For the third day yesterday in the afternoon and then again late at night to early this morning, I looked around the K something village, found all the chickens except one, tried to go to the grave guy at the right time but got annoyed since I kept on coming back at the wrong times, killed a ghost, found all the places I could in the village and then left to try to finally get into the castle. I figured out I could climb up the vine by the little girl, hatched the egg she gave me and tried evaded some guards then I went to sleep. Will try again later.

This reminds me that i still need to beat it. I've loved playing through this muuuuch farther than I ever did as a kid, but I stopped my 3DS playthrough about halfway through Ganon's Castle.

Here's an interview about Zelda's future. Non-bolded parts are Miyamoto.

We know there?s a new Mario game coming for the Wii U, New Super Mario Bros. U. Last year when the Wii U was first introduced, a standalone Zelda battle scene was created to showcase the system?s high-definition graphics. What about the Wii U intrigues you for what you could do in a Zelda game?
Obviously we stared that experiment last year and used that to sort of showcase some of the HD visuals. And obviously when you look at that, you do get a positive reaction to how simply having the HD visuals in a Zelda game can really make the game look wonderful and give it sort of a high-quality feel. But one thing that?s interesting is we?re seeing how the way that tastes are broadening in video games and you have some people who prefer more casual experiences, and you have some people who prefer sort of those more in-depth experiences. Obviously, as a company that?s been making games for a very long time, we tend to be more on the deeper, longer game side of things. But really what we continue to ask ourselves as we have over the years is, ?What is the most important element of Zelda if we were to try to make a Zelda game that a lot of people can play?? So we have a number of different experiments going on, and [when] we decide that we?ve found the right one of those to really help bring Zelda to a very big audience, then we?ll be happy to announce it.
So you?re sort of in the R&D stage?
Yeah. With the last game, Skyward Sword, that was a game where you had motion control to use your weapons and a lot of different items, and I thought that was a lot of fun, but there were some people who weren?t able to do that or didn?t like it as much and stopped playing partway through it. So we?re in the phase where we?re looking back at what?s worked very well and what has been missing and how can we evolve it further.
I do think of some other Zelda games where you?d play a song or something and a screen would come up and you?d have to match a certain pattern within the song to advance in the game. It seems like the touchscreen on the GamePad does sort of offer interesting ways of incorporating that element of the Zelda experience into a Wii U game.
Maybe I?ll take that idea. [Laughs]

Honestly... I'm a bit worried.

Why?

As long as 3Ds gets a traditional Zelda, I don't really care where the console ones go.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 07, 2012, 08:40:21 PM
Why?

Indeed. I'm particularly fond of this bit:

Quote from: talonmalon333 on June 07, 2012, 08:32:21 PM
Yeah. With the last game, Skyward Sword, that was a game where you had motion control to use your weapons and a lot of different items, and I thought that was a lot of fun, but there were some people who weren't able to do that or didn't like it as much and stopped playing partway through it. So we're in the phase where we're looking back at what's worked very well and what has been missing and how can we evolve it further.

I see no reason to be worried at all.

Played Ocarina Of Time on Friday. Got nowhere. Embarassing.

By the way, did you guys hear those claims that SS was the "longest Zelda in development" or "SS took 4-5 years to make"?

Just so you know, I'm almost positive that's BS. Based on what I've heard recently, the game truly took... a year and a half, maybe two, to make. It makes sense, really, if you think back to it's E3 2010 presentation. The game was clearly in it's early stages back then, and the art style was so untidy.

So yeah, SS is the biggest sham in the series. :P

For some reason, Saria's Song makes me think about Tomba.

Hmm... (http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/12/next-zelda-remake-on-3ds-could-either-be-majoras-mask-or-a-link-to-the-past/)

Don't remake Link to the Past, Nintendo! Make sequels to it! :SHOCK:

The quote itself is a bit strange. It talks as if Zelda 3DS hasn't been in development for a year now, despite the fact that past quotes say it has been.

Also, not sure why Nintendo has an issue choosing between the two. Grezzo would handle MM3D, and Nintendo could do whatever they want.

Oh man, I hope not. I don't want a repeat of Mario on the GBA. Only remakes.

Give me my classic top-down Zelda game!  :'(

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 13, 2012, 09:14:08 PM
Oh man, I hope not. I don't want a repeat of Mario on the GBA. Only remakes.

Give me my classic top-down Zelda game!  :'(

I infinitely agree with new games over remakes. At the same time though, Nintendo could do the top-down game, and Grezzo could do the remake.

Quote from: Foggle on June 13, 2012, 12:05:33 PM
Hmm... (http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/12/next-zelda-remake-on-3ds-could-either-be-majoras-mask-or-a-link-to-the-past/)

Don't remake Link to the Past, Nintendo! Make sequels to it! :SHOCK:

Indeed. I want to see that Link make it out of his "lost at sea" situation. Same Link, different shit. I like ALttP, but it was already remade for GBA and is on the VC.

There's a remake?

On Ocarina Of Time, I played up to early this morning. I got to Dodongo (sp?) Cavern about two days ago and finally got the Bomb Bag finally and up to the part where you get the platform to rise to the 2nd floor.

Did anyone else play OoT3D?

Quote from: talonmalon333 on June 14, 2012, 01:56:38 PM
Did anyone else play OoT3D?

That's the version I've been playing.

I have it, played up to Jabu Jabu's belly before I put it down.

I hate that dungeon.

On Ocarina Of Time today I:
-Figured out how to get past that gate in the Royal family Tomb and then went on to get the Sun Song or whatever it's called
-Got the bigger bomb bag from that hot rolling creature. Took my last bomb to get that right.
-Got that Golden Skullula (sp) in the rock filled place in Goron (sp?) City and one behind the mountain walls.
-Got some magic beans from the guy by that stream.
-Found a cow
-And I got nowhere in Dondongo's Cavern due to me not feeling like coming back from the stream. Will plant the three magic beans I brought tomorrow.

So IGN has started a sort of pole to help Nintendo decide on their next handheld Zelda. The three choices are...

-MM Remake
-ALttP Remake
-ALttP Sequel

Ladies and gentleman, we've finally reached the point where people would rather have a remake than a brand new game. And by that, I mean "a lot more people".

(The remake that's being favored is MM, by the way.)

I'd take all three of those over PH and ST, but yeesh.

Why do people want a remake over a new game?

We already know we're getting a remake eventually, and we just had one- how about something new?

... And wouldn't it be a Link's Awakening sequel?

ST is probably one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had. Oh, and it had the worst control scheme ever. ... I actually liked it though...

As for people preferring a remake, I'll be in the Animation Revelation Crying Corner if anyone else wants to join me.

:cry:

After yet another OoT remake (the 3DS one being a lot more highly publicized than the 'Cube versions, though), natural sentiment was going to be high for Majora's Mask. N64 Zelda is what's fresh for a lot of people right now, so of course they want more.

Still, though... that much preference over a new game entirely? What? :wth:

Maybe Ninty's experiments with stylus controls and motion controls have turned people off from the prospect of a new game?  :sly:

Okay, maybe not. Maybe (definitely) that's just me. I want a new Zelda, I'm just a bit wary of all these gimmicks since I've hated the last three games. That and I just played ALttP and MM last year.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 16, 2012, 12:46:41 AM
Why do people want a remake over a new game?

Well, to be fair, the proposed remakes of Resident Evil 2 and Serious Sam 2 are some of my most wanted games of all time.

But yeah, enough LoZ remakes! We need more new games. :immad:

Quote from: Foggle on June 16, 2012, 10:12:52 AM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 16, 2012, 12:46:41 AM
Why do people want a remake over a new game?

Well, to be fair, the proposed remakes of Resident Evil 2 and Serious Sam 2 are some of my most wanted games of all time.

But yeah, enough LoZ remakes! We need more new games. :immad:

... Okay I admit, I would love REmake 2. :sweat:

Quote from: Nel on June 16, 2012, 02:20:25 AM
Maybe Ninty's experiments with stylus controls and motion controls have turned people off from the prospect of a new game?  :sly:

Well, I can't exactly say I want another PH or ST (I rail on those games every chance I get, perhaps a bit unfairly, but I still really don't like them) so you may be onto something with that.

I don't know why Nintendo can't just go back to what works. After so many years hiatus, they started churning out 2D Mario again with consistent frequency, so why not go and do the same for Zelda? Go back to the top-down style, ala ALttP/Link's Awakening/Oracles/etc. You'd have a few manchildren crying that Nintendo is going backwards yet again (as they continue to do whenever a new 2D Mario is released), but otherwise, people would love it.

Me three. Why can't the right series ever get remakes?

Last night, on OOT I finally got to Dorongo and beat him. Then I got up to Death Mountain, was creeped out by how large that owl actually was and then met the creepy Great Fairy. Creepy.
Edit: Did I mention that Dorongo's death was extra cruel. Damn Nintendo :shit: lol @ when Link ran away and screamed when those rolling creatures tried to hug him. Good to see some comedy in the game.

God damn, I see why someone here was complaining about Inside Jabu Jabu. That place is hell. Last night I used my milk to make room for the fish once I realized the Zoraa were giving me a clue about Jabu since they kept on talking about fish. Then it was those damn jellyfish that I believe made me end up using Poe. Then later on I used my fairy wherever when I died. I got up to Jabu's mouth with the Princess then turned back when I remembered the brat said she wasn't leaving until she got something. I was running low on life looking around and I forgot what killed me but that stretchy thing I couldn't figure out how to kill and those electric tail things sure didn't help. So annoying. Oh and I had to start back with my bottles empty since I did plan to not save while in there but it was too annoying to hit be and not save at the start menu since you are always prompted to save. Ugh.

So what are everyone's current opinions about Skyward Sword? Am I still the only one who likes it? .3.

I still loathe it.  :blush:

Quote from: Nel on July 10, 2012, 02:46:28 PM
I still loathe it.  :blush:

Why?

Oh, you know. Terrible intro, terrible motion controls, terrible excuse for an overworld, bland soundtrack, disappointing dungeons, silent realms, stamina bar, an assistant who is somehow more annoying than Navi... and so forth. Twilight Princess may have been bland, but I still could have fun. Playing Skyward Sword just felt like a chore.

I agree with Nel. Though I actually like the intro for what it is.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on July 10, 2012, 11:47:58 AM
So what are everyone's current opinions about Skyward Sword? Am I still the only one who likes it? .3.

Well, on this board, maybe, but the game still has a lot of fans who love it from what I've seen. Its safe to say that its probably the least popular 3D Zelda game among fans, though, but I still need to play it for myself to judge whether I like it or not.

I still find it boring.

My Wii started working again (don't ask me how it died or came back to life- I couldn't tell you), so I think I'll get around to playing it again after I finish Thousand-Year-Door.

I think it's better than you guys give it credit for. Sure, the game has massive issues (iffy motion controls, annoying fetch quests, WTF level design, Fi, too much exposition, etc.), but it still had its perks. It's also worth mentioning that the game was thrown together in two years, or less.

My issue is that they talked so big pre-release while they were scrambling to complete it and hiring outside studios to polish up the graphics, all just to get it out on time. Not to mention they wasted to much time. Personally, I can agree that it is probably the worst of the 3D Zelda games, but it's still a great game. And I wouldn't say it fell below my expectations... though admittedly I try not to have any when going into games.

Thoughts on the idea of a Zelda reboot, guys?

What would a reboot entail exactly? I know there's the whole timeline thing, but Zelda's timeline has never really played a major role in things. Zelda's continuity is rather loose.

Now, if you meant a gameplay reboot, then a "back-to-basics" Zelda game with a top-down camera would be pretty interesting to see.

Quote from: Rynnec on July 16, 2012, 05:48:06 PM
What would a reboot entail exactly? I know there's the whole timeline thing, but Zelda's timeline has never really played a major role in things. Zelda's continuity is rather loose.

Now, if you meant a gameplay reboot, then a "back-to-basics" Zelda game with a top-down camera would be pretty interesting to see.

Pretty much everything, I mean. Story reboot, gameplay reboot, etc.

I don't care about a story reboot because I don't play Zelda games for their stories. I do enjoy their stories, so don't get me wrong, but its not like there is a huge sense of continuity with the series to begin with, and most titles feel completely stand-alone, so in that regard a reboot of the story would accomplish nothing except setting up a continuous Zelda story-line, and honestly that doesn't appeal to me at all. I like and prefer Zelda being an episodic series of games rather than a convoluted continuous one.

As for the gameplay, isn't every new game pretty much a reboot? Well, its more accurate to say that each new game comes up with its own new gimmick, so its not like the series is playing the same tricks that it did in the last few games or so with each new release. You have you're typical puzzle solving and such, but each game has a brilliant sense of variety that makes it stand out and feel unique from every other game in the series. And besides, wasn't Skyward Sword in and of itself a reboot of the gameplay? I mean, the whole thing was motion-controlled and the over-world was changed so it was more like the entire game was a huge dungeon whereas other Zelda games had you do more activities in towns and such between main dungeons. Really speaking, though, the Zelda series is one of the most diverse franchises in all of gaming. For the most part, there aren't 2 games in the entire series that feel all that similar, with maybe a few exceptions to that rule. That's more than I can say for any other big franchise sans Mario, as most other game series are content with just making a few new additions to the gameplay with each sequel rather than completely coming up with an entirely different concept.

Basically, the original Zelda and LTTP set up the main style of play for 2D Zelda games, and Ocarina of Time set it up for 3D Zelda games. Most Zelda games since then have used the basic blueprint structure of those games for their core gameplay elements but then added in a completely unique flavor of their own with their own concepts, gimmicks, spins, and twists put on the formula.

So, in short, the answer is no, I don't think the series needs a reboot. In fact I think reboots have become so ridiculously overused these days in more mediums of entertainment than just gaming. Some series are fine the way they are. I have no idea why so many people are so fascinated with seeing a reboot of everything. Most of the times reboots just turn out to be shitty copies of what's popular at the time, anyways.

I just want a 2D top down Zelda game. It doesn't even need a big story, just a classic style Zelda game.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 16, 2012, 08:02:42 PM
I just want a 2D top down Zelda game. It doesn't even need a big story, just a classic style Zelda game.

Pretty much this. The series really doesn't need a story reboot considering how easy it is to do a self-contained story in this series without referencing the others. But moar Vaati pls. I think he has so much more potential than just "giant eyeball". Also, I'd like it if they kept reusing races like the Minish, Twili and Lokomo. That's the kind of series continuity I like. It stinks when they keep introducing all these cool races but we never see them figure into any plots again.

It'd be awesome if they could get the people who made the Oracle games to make another 2D Zelda game. I still say that those are the best 2D Zelda games that I have ever played, and those developers given the proper scope with modern hand-held technology could make one of the most creative and all-out awesome 2D Zelda games to date. Unfortunately Nintendo seems to forget that despite the success of the 3D Zelda games, it still has a huge fan following from its 2D roots, and that style of gameplay still works really well.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 16, 2012, 08:42:05 PM
It'd be awesome if they could get the people who made the Oracle games to make another 2D Zelda game.

That was Capcom. Can we still trust them? :P

Quote from: talonmalon333 on July 16, 2012, 08:50:07 PM

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 16, 2012, 08:42:05 PM
It'd be awesome if they could get the people who made the Oracle games to make another 2D Zelda game.

That was Capcom. Can we still trust them? :P

Flagship, actually.

They made Skyward sword.  :D

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 16, 2012, 08:56:03 PM
They made Skyward sword.  :D

What? I thought SS was in-house.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on July 16, 2012, 08:50:07 PM
That was Capcom. Can we still trust them? :P

Actually it was Flagship, which was just a subsidiary of Capcom (just like how Clover Studios was a subsidiary of Capcom). The suits and higher-ups at Capcom are the ones who have sunk the company with such crappy business practices. The developers that worked for Capcom when it was in its prime are supremely talented, though. I have no idea if the developer Flagship even still exists, but I was saying that it would be cool if most of the people who were part of Flaship and involved with making the Oracle games could come together to make a new 2D Zelda game. Its an impossible scenario, which I'm aware of, but that would be my ideal set-up for a team of developers to make a truly great 2D Zelda title.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 16, 2012, 08:56:03 PM
Flagship, actually.

They made Skyward sword.  :D

Really? Hmmmm....Wikipedia tells me that it was Nintendo EAD that developed SS....and we all know that Wiki never lies. ;)

They did. Flagship doesn't exist anymore.

Quote from: Foggle on July 16, 2012, 08:57:14 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 16, 2012, 08:56:03 PM
They made Skyward sword.  :D

What? I thought SS was in-house.

Nintendo bought Flagship and the director for the Oracle games and Minish Cap directed SS.

I'm sure there's a link on google or Wiki that you can find.

Well, I still haven't played SS so I have no comment on that, but regardless of whether you guys liked it or not, you can't deny that the director of that game KNOWS how to make a great 2D Zelda game. I mean, if he indeed was also behind the Oracle games and MM, then that means he got it right 3 times in a row, so you know its no fluke.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 16, 2012, 09:02:40 PM
Well, I still haven't played SS so I have no comment on that, but regardless of whether you guys liked it or not, you can't deny that the director of that game KNOWS how to make a great 2D Zelda game. I mean, if he indeed was also behind the Oracle games and MM, then that means he got it right 3 times in a row, so you know its no fluke.

He's probably better suited to the 2D style. Either way, I hope the next Zelda game is top down. We're way too overdue for one.

I have my own opinions about the idea of a Zelda reboot. But it'll probably be a long post, so I'll do it later. :P

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 16, 2012, 08:42:05 PMUnfortunately Nintendo seems to forget that despite the success of the 3D Zelda games, it still has a huge fan following from its 2D roots, and that style of gameplay still works really well.

Let's not forget Nintendo is heavily considering another 2D game right now. ;)

I was never sure why they put the guy who did MC in as SS's director. Clearly he wasn't up to the task.

Well, I still have yet to play SS, so once again, I don't know what to think of it. Maybe the motion controls are problematic, but as for the actual game design itself, I have a feeling that its the type of game that I'd like better than you guys do. To be honest, I love the idea of a Zelda game that puts more emphasis on the puzzles and adventure elements. I like side missions and stuff, but honestly all that stuff is kind of just padding to me. I'm good with the game if it has a lot of substance to it, at the very least. I'm sure it takes a while to get into, but honestly that's the same for almost every Zelda game, IMO, including both ALTTP and OOT, among the other games in the franchise. The only exception to the rule for me is, once again, the Oracle games (though even those took me about 15+ minutes to get into, but they move along pretty quickly, which I really like about them).

I don't really care if they reboot Zelda or not. As long as they remember that the franchise is about adventure and exploration, not story or combat or anything like that.

I don't know if that's what they got wrong with SS, but that's all that really matters to me.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 16, 2012, 09:09:21 PM
Well, I still have yet to play SS, so once again, I don't know what to think of it. Maybe the motion controls are problematic, but as for the actual game design itself, I have a feeling that its the type of game that I'd like better than you guys do. To be honest, I love the idea of a Zelda game that puts more emphasis on the puzzles and adventure elements. I like side missions and stuff, but honestly all that stuff is kind of just padding to me. I'm good with the game if it has a lot of substance to it, at the very least. I'm sure it takes a while to get into, but honestly that's the same for almost every Zelda game, IMO, including both ALTTP and OOT, among the other games in the franchise. The only exception to the rule for me is, once again, the Oracle games (though even those took me about 15+ minutes to get into, but they move along pretty quickly, which I really like about them).

Don't get me wrong, I think SS is a great game. I just, shall we say, hate everything that it stands for. :P

I do imagine you might like it more than I do, as you're a bigger fan of Zelda puzzles. At the same time, the game has a lot of fetch quests, and not just as side content. Much of it is incorporated into the main game. What you'll hear from me and most is that the game's pacing isn't too great, especially compared to OoT which had marvelous pacing.

But that said, yeah, it's indeed a great game. But if I can make a recommendation, if you get the chance, I highly suggest playing TP first.

Now in the meantime, I'm gonna list my favorites. But I can't rank them anymore. And tiers are reliable, so...

Tier 1: OoT, MM, TP
Tier 2: ALttP, LA, WW, SS
Tier 3: LoZ, AoL, MC, ST
Tier 4: FS, FSA, PH

OoS and OoA will be reinstated after I get to replay them both. Too long since I've beaten either.

Mine:

God Tier: OoT, MM, ALttP, LA, WW, MC, Oracles
Good Tier: LoZ, FSA, FS
Not Always Horribly Painful Tier: AoL, SS
Shit Tier: ST, PH

Haven't played TP.

Mine is pretty close to Foggle's one. AoL would be so much better if the difficulty wasn't so cheesy.

Quote from: Foggle on July 17, 2012, 12:40:04 AM
Mine:

God Tier: OoT, MM, ALttP, LA, WW, MC, Oracles
Good Tier: LoZ, FSA, FS
Not Always Horribly Painful Tier: AoL, SS
Shit Tier: ST, PH

Isn't that top tier a little cluttered? :P

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 17, 2012, 12:49:01 AM
AoL would be so much better if the difficulty wasn't so cheesy.

This is my favorite description of AoL's difficulty ever.

Quote from: Foggle on July 17, 2012, 12:40:04 AM
Haven't played TP.

:huh: :huh: :huh:

Quote from: talonmalon333 on July 17, 2012, 12:50:55 AM
Isn't that top tier a little cluttered? :P

It's an awesome series, what can I say? :sweat:

Quote:huh: :huh: :huh:

This year... I will get a copy and play it... hopefully...

For me, its like this (based only on the Zelda games that I have played):

Top Tier:
Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
The Wind Waker
Oracle of Ages/Seasons
Minish Cap

Middle Tier (I warn you, this one will be blasphemy to the rest of you):
A Link to the Past (I respect this game a lot, but I honestly have so much trouble getting into it)
Link's Awakening (Same as above, really)
The Legend of Zelda (once again, I respect this one, but this time it flat out hasn't aged as well as its 2D successors)
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (I don't really like this game, but I only kept it up here for one reason, which is that it isn't nearly as bad as the worst Zelda games of all time)

Bottom Tier:
CDI Zelda games (I've only ever played a few minutes of one of these games, but that's enough for me to know what abominations they are)

Actually, I can admit that Link's Awakening is overrated as all hell by nostalgic gamers, even if it is my favorite 2D Zelda (possibly due to nostalgia)...

Nostalgia isn't needed to recognize that LA is better than OoS and OoA. :sly:

OK, Talon, state your reasons. What makes LA more creative, unique, and more well designed than either of those games?

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 17, 2012, 02:50:56 PM
OK, Talon, I'll give you a chance. State your reasons. What makes LA more creative, unique, and more well designed than either of those games?

Well I prefer the story, dungeons, pacing, and world better in LA. But my main point with that post was that many people who love LA, such as myself, aren't just tied down by nostalgia. There are reasons to prefer LA, just as I'm sure you have your reasons to prefer OoS and OoA... I believe it's a fine game that's aged very well. The OoX games are also great, but there are a few points, mostly in OoA, that slightly bored me (for example, to me it feels like the game just comes to a halt when Link gets washed up on an island and has to get his items back from those creatures). I'm currently in the process of replaying them though, so my opinion may change.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on July 17, 2012, 03:02:00 PM
Well I prefer the story

You mean the bare-bones story that is in just about every Zelda game. OK, I don't see what makes it special, and the twist that its all a dream doesn't help it much, but fair enough if that's your opinion.

Quotedungeons, pacing, and world better in LA.

You're going to have to elaborate on that.  How exactly is it better? The dungeons in LA felt very basic to me. You had block puzzles, turn-styles, and a lot of tropes that the series is known for. All of that stuff was in the Oracle games as well, but they also had so much more creativity. They actually did 2D segments really well for the first time (you know, as in better than AoL), and stuff like the magnetic gloves made for some really creative platforming segments. And remember the light and dark world concept of ALTTP? Ages had its equivalent of that with the past and present, and Seasons actually even doubled that with the 4 seasons, all of which are substantially different environments from one another, which really shows the amount of effort the level designers put into making those games. The worlds in the Oracle games just felt like they had so much more to offer. Also, I can't think of a 2D Zelda game with more perfect pacing than the Oracle games. Maybe ALTTP is just as good, but I don't see how it could be any better. The Oracle games literally wasted none of your time. There were side-quests in between dungeons, but they were of course optional, and those games never bogged you down with a ton of trivial tasks or boring fetch quests in between main dungeons. If you were really centered on going to the next main dungeon, you could do so after a few clear and simple tasks were performed, which themselves were interesting since they played to the series' strenghts in the form of puzzles or fun mini-games. If you wanted to have some fun before going to the next dungeon and do some other stuff, then the game had plenty of side-quests for you to take part in before you were ready to move on.

QuoteBut my main point with that post was that many people who love LA, such as myself, aren't just tied down by nostalgia. There are reasons to prefer LA, just as I'm sure you have your reasons to prefer OoS and OoA... I believe it's a fine game that's aged very well. The OoX games are also great, but there are a few points, mostly in OoA, that slightly bored me (for example, to me it feels like the game just comes to a halt when Link gets washed up on an island and has to get his items back from those creatures). I'm currently in the process of replaying them though, so my opinion may change.

That part where Link gets washed up and has to regain his items only drags if you aren't very good at playing a Zelda game to begin with. It doesn't take that long to pass it if you know what you're doing. Which is to say, even if its you're first time playing the game, if you get how a Zelda game works, how to use clues, solve puzzles, and talk to the right people and such, then regaining your items at that part doesn't take more than 15 minutes.

As for LA, I never implied myself that it was a product of nostalgia. I did say that I respect the game. I just couldn't really get into it, personally.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 17, 2012, 03:14:14 PM
As for LA, I never implied myself that it was a product of nostalgia. I did say that I respect the game. I just couldn't really get into it, personally.

Fair enough. I misinterpreted your post, then. But as for my thoughts...

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 17, 2012, 03:14:14 PM
You mean the bare-bones story that is in just about every Zelda game. OK, I don't see what makes it special, and the twist that its all a dream doesn't help it much, but fair enough if that's your opinion.

The fact that it's a dream is what makes the story. Especially the entire ending, where the only way for Link to escape the island is to completely erase it, and all its people, including Marin. For a video game, and a Zelda game especially, it's pretty heavy, probably only second to WW's ending at that.

But I do have to say, in my current replay of OoA, storywise, the Symmetry City portion is pretty effective.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 17, 2012, 03:14:14 PM
You're going to have to elaborate on that.  How exactly is it better? The dungeons in LA felt very basic to me. You had block puzzles, turn-styles, and a lot of tropes that the series is known for. All of that stuff was in the Oracle games as well, but they also had so much more creativity. They actually did 2D segments really well for the first time (you know, as in better than AoL), and stuff like the magnetic gloves made for some really creative platforming segments. And remember the light and dark world concept of ALTTP? Ages had its equivalent of that with the past and present, and Seasons actually even doubled that with the 4 seasons, all of which are substantially different environments from one another, which really shows the amount of effort the level designers put into making those games. The worlds in the Oracle games just felt like they had so much more to offer. Also, I can't think of a 2D Zelda game with more perfect pacing than the Oracle games. Maybe ALTTP is just as good, but I don't see how it could be any better. The Oracle games literally wasted none of your time. There were side-quests in between dungeons, but they were of course optional, and those games never bogged you down with a ton of trivial tasks or boring fetch quests in between main dungeons. If you were really centered on going to the next main dungeon, you could do so after a few clear and simple tasks were performed, which themselves were interesting since they played to the series' strenghts in the form of puzzles or fun mini-games. If you wanted to have some fun before going to the next dungeon and do some other stuff, then the game had plenty of side-quests for you to take part in before you were ready to move on.

Dungeons: I'm now in the middle of OoA. And at least for this game, now that I've gotten this far, I might agree with you. The dungeons in this game are pretty great. Once I get to OoS I'll decide how it compares.

Pacing: The idea of having control over time and seasons is cool, but it also involves backtracking which slows things down a bit for me. But putting those aside, they still have more backtracking than LA, which barely had any at all. For example, before getting to Symmetry City in OoA, you gotta find carpenters to build a bridge to get in, which is alright. But before you can even do that, you gotta go back to a forest to save the kangaroo in order to help you save the carpenters. It's practically a fetchquest within a fetchquest. :-\

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 17, 2012, 03:14:14 PM
That part where Link gets washed up and has to regain his items only drags if you aren't very good at playing a Zelda game to begin with. It doesn't take that long to pass it if you know what you're doing. Which is to say, even if its you're first time playing the game, if you get how a Zelda game works, how to use clues, solve puzzles, and talk to the right people and such, then regaining your items at that part doesn't take more than 15 minutes.

I just did it a day or two ago, and I found it to be kind of boring and not really hard. :P

I like LA because it's 100% classic no-frills Zelda. There are no gimmicks, no padding, and it flows very well from point to point. It's probably the most fun Zelda for me to just pick up and play whenever. IMO, that might be why so many people like it.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 17, 2012, 07:28:27 PM
I like LA because it's 100% classic no-frills Zelda. There are no gimmicks, no padding, and it flows very well from point to point. It's probably the most fun Zelda for me to just pick up and play whenever. IMO, that might be why so many people like it.

This sums it up. LA is proof that a Zelda game can be different, without going into gimmick territory.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on July 17, 2012, 06:45:41 PM
Pacing: The idea of having control over time and seasons is cool, but it also involves backtracking which slows things down a bit for me. But putting those aside, they still have more backtracking than LA, which barely had any at all. For example, before getting to Symmetry City in OoA, you gotta find carpenters to build a bridge to get in, which is alright. But before you can even do that, you gotta go back to a forest to save the kangaroo in order to help you save the carpenters. It's practically a fetchquest within a fetchquest. :-\

That's not a fetch-quest. What you call back-tracking is in every Zelda game, including LA. I don't know how you're giving that game the slip here, but it definitely required you to go back to areas you had already visited on more than just a few occasions. What makes it work in good Zelda games is how they alter things up when you revisit an area. You're talking about the Oracle games having fetch-quests, but I couldn't disagree more, because most of the time its doing what Zelda does best and having you overcome obstacles. You go back to certain areas but in each game whenever you do that you do it under different conditions (either in the past or present or during different seasons). So its not like you're playing the same area twice, because everything changes on you're second visit, including the environment and enemies. If you'd still hold back-tracking against these games, then you'd have to hold it against every Zelda game because I don't know that I've played any other Zelda game as diverse as these 2, personally.

QuoteI just did it a day or two ago, and I found it to be kind of boring and not really hard. :P

You see. You just admitted that its not hard. In which case it shouldn't have taken you more than 10+ minutes to get past that part (that's how long it took me). You're really going to single out 10-minutes worth of gameplay and use it as an argument against the quality of an entire game?

Quote from: talonmalon333 on July 17, 2012, 09:03:43 PM
This sums it up. LA is proof that a Zelda game can be different, without going into gimmick territory.

You guys are using gimmick as a bad word here. Almost every Zelda game aside from the original has gimmicks. But gimmicks aren't inherently a bad thing. In the Zelda games they are used as entire gameplay elements to formulate the main concept of how to traverse the game, adding a unique flavor to each game without making them any more shallow or complex. To me, Link's Awakening honestly feels kind of boring. It has basic puzzles that I've seen done in other Zelda games, it has very basic combat which is once again no better than in any other 2D Zelda game, and....that's kind of it. I just don't see what it does "better" than other 2D Zelda games, but I guess I'm just missing something here.

That would be implying I think the Dark World, Shrinking, Sailing, Time, and Season gimmicks are bad. I don't!  :D

But sometimes I don't want to deal with that stuff, so I pop in Link's Awakening and have a ball with a simple and tight action adventure. Just 8 dungeons, a sword and feather, and an owl giving you hints. Yeah the dungeons are simple, but I like that they are. It's a simpler and more straightforward Zelda than any of the others, and sometimes that's what I want to play.

Fair enough. I can understand that point. ;)

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 17, 2012, 10:17:58 PM
That would be implying I think the Dark World, Shrinking, Sailing, Time, and Season gimmicks are bad. I don't!  :D

Wait a minute, are you referring to The Wind Waker's sailing gimmick? I know Talon and myself like the sailing, but I thought you HATED that gimmick. :P

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 17, 2012, 09:45:22 PM
That's not a fetch-quest. What you call back-tracking is in every Zelda game, including LA. I don't know how you're giving that game the slip here, but it definitely required you to go back to areas you had already visited on more than just a few occasions. What makes it work in good Zelda games is how they alter things up when you revisit an area. You're talking about the Oracle games having fetch-quests, but I couldn't disagree more, because most of the time its doing what Zelda does bests and having you overcome obstacles. You go back to certain areas but in each game whenever you do that you do it under different conditions (either in the past or present or during different seasons). So its not like you're playing the same area twice, because everything changes on you're second visit, including the environment and enemies. If you'd still hold back-tracking against these games, then you'd have to hold it against every Zelda game because I don't know that I've played any other Zelda game as diverse as these 2, personally.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 17, 2012, 09:45:22 PMYou see. You just admitted that its not hard. In which case it shouldn't have taken you more than 10+ minutes to get past that part (that's how long it took me). You're really going to single out 10-minutes worth of gameplay and use it as an argument against the quality of an entire game?

I do hold back-tracking against most Zelda games. Too many of them, with SS being the worst offender, use it to extent game length. OoX wasn't nearly as bad as some other games, but there were still those moments that were just tedious to me. The island section of getting back your equipment might've only been about 20 minutes, but things like that add up. LA had very little of this, if any at all.

I typically cite OoT as a Zelda with perfect pacing, just for future reference. ;)

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 17, 2012, 09:49:38 PM
You guys are using gimmick as a bad word here. Almost every Zelda game aside from the original has gimmicks. But gimmicks aren't inherently a bad thing. In the Zelda games they are used as entire gameplay elements to formulate the main concept of how to traverse the game, adding a unique flavor to each game without making them any more shallow or complex. To me, Link's Awakening honestly feels kind of boring. It has basic puzzles that I've seen done in other Zelda games, it has very basic combat which is once again no better than in any other 2D Zelda game, and....that's kind of it. I just don't see what it does "better" than other 2D Zelda games, but I guess I'm just missing something here.

AoL really didn't have any gimmicks. As different as it was, it was also made in a time when sequels were rare... I might also argue that OoT and TP didn't have any gimmicks. Especially OoT, as the time traveling aspect of the game was just different ways of playing the game traditionally. It didn't really change up the gameplay much at all.

As for the rest, Spark summed it up perfectly.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 17, 2012, 10:20:01 PM

Wait a minute, are you referring to The Wind Waker's sailing gimmick? I know Talon and myself like the sailing, but I thought you HATED that gimmick. :P

Maybe he meant PH's sailing.

:blush:

AoL needs a full scale ground up remake. A 2D platformer Zelda could be a great thing, if only it just wasn't so haphazardly put together.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 17, 2012, 10:20:01 PM
Fair enough. I can understand that point. ;)

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 17, 2012, 10:17:58 PM
That would be implying I think the Dark World, Shrinking, Sailing, Time, and Season gimmicks are bad. I don't!  :D

Wait a minute, are you referring to The Wind Waker's sailing gimmick? I know Talon and myself like the sailing, but I thought you HATED that gimmick. :P

I hate the Triforce hunt. The actual sailing I don't have much issue with, I like the scale it gives to the world.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 17, 2012, 10:35:42 PM
I hate the Triforce hunt. The actual sailing I don't have much issue with, I like the scale it gives to the world.

I feel the same way. I absolutely love the sailing, but I really do hate the Triforce hunt.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 17, 2012, 10:35:42 PM
AoL needs a full scale ground up remake. A 2D platformer Zelda could be a great thing, if only it just wasn't so haphazardly put together.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deviantart.com%2Fdownload%2F171926943%2FZelda_II_HD_by_ReddFloxy.jpg&hash=aaa7f2ff4984d1c9e12d16cc012db48bd61e2ddc)

I'd be fine with an AoL remake if they update the graphics and balance it out. The challenge really doesn't need to be nerfed, but the game could send you back to temple entrances upon getting Game Overs, rather than forcing you to start from the beginning.

Could be a good WiiWare (WiiUWare?) title?

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 17, 2012, 10:35:42 PM
I hate the Triforce hunt. The actual sailing I don't have much issue with, I like the scale it gives to the world.

As EK mentioned, I do love the sailing (though I can agree that they could've shortened the size of the ocean, to please everyone). But I have mixed feelings about the Triforce hunt. I love exploring the islands and finding the charts. But I don't enjoy having the charts deciphered, and then having to pull up the chests. I'd prefer them to simply hide the Triforce pieces in place of the charts.

As for the reboot idea, to be honest, I'm in favor of it. I'd like to see Zelda let go of all the conventions it has picked up over the years. Besides, I think Hyrule kind of sucks. There's far too many races with not enough depth, the history is cheesy and repetitive, the lore just isn't that interesting.

After playing the OoX games for the first time in a while, I can do accurate rankings for the series.

MM > OoT = TP > WW > ALttP = LA > SS > LoZ > AoL > OoA > OoS > ST > MC > PH > FSA > FS

You enjoy SS and AoL more than the Oracle games or Minish Cap?

Any particular reason?

Well, like I said, being that I haven't played SS I can't comment on that game, but I'd be interested to hear you're reasoning for preferring AoL over the Oracle games and Minish Cap as well? I guess its a very divisive game, but I found those other games to be near perfect at what they set out to do. With AoL, even for people who like its gameplay style a lot of them still agree that it has flaws compared to other 2D side-scrolling games.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 30, 2012, 07:22:01 PM
You enjoy SS and AoL more than the Oracle games or Minish Cap?

Any particular reason?

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on July 30, 2012, 07:44:55 PM
Well, like I said, being that I haven't played SS I can't comment on that game, but I'd be interested to hear you're reasoning for preferring AoL over the Oracle games and Minish Cap as well? I guess its a very divisive game, but I found those other games to be near perfect at what they set out to do. With AoL, even for people who like its gameplay style a lot of them still agree that it has flaws compared to other 2D side-scrolling games.

I do have my issues with SS. As I've said before, I hate "everything that it stands for". It basically compiles all of my problems with modern Zelda... Having said that, when the game does things right, it completely wows me. The dungeons that aren't just average or mediocre are some of the best in the series, the story arc involving Link and Zelda is wonderful, the songs that are memorable are lovely, and so on.

I think AoL is very underrated. I do understand the issues people have with it, though. However, the only problem with it that I have, is going back to the beginning after every Game Over. Everything else about the game is great. I truly do believe that LoZ and AoL have the best concepts in the series, even though neither could really use those ideas to their fullest potential, due to their age... Oh, and luckily, re-releases fixed those seizure inducing death scenes. :P

I've been replaying OoS and OoA lately. I do think both are great games, better than I remember, actually. They are low on my list purely by default.

As for MC, I think this is the only part I'll have to highly disagree. It was a good game, but I think it was the most standard game in the series. It rarely failed at things, but it also didn't excel at anything for me. I should replay it someday, though.

Well, it was the last classic style Zelda game, so it probably gets a pass for that, but I thought the shrinking gimmick was one of the best in the series which led to a lot of fun puzzles and situations. Replaying it on the 3DS reminded me of how much I miss Zelda games like this.

I love the hell out of Minish Cap, but the overworld feels really, really small to me. But then, replaying Links Awakening, that overworld felt smaller than I remember too.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on July 30, 2012, 08:43:17 PM
Well, it was the last classic style Zelda game, so it probably gets a pass for that, but I thought the shrinking gimmick was one of the best in the series which led to a lot of fun puzzles and situations. Replaying it on the 3DS reminded me of how much I miss Zelda games like this.

I do really love the old 2D style Zelda. Miss it, too. The stylus controls in the DS games were awful ("No Link, swing your sword at the enemy! Don't roll into it!" "Link, why'd you jump off that cliff? Idiot!"). :P

Anyway, hopefully my above explanation covered what you guys were asking. I'm not the best at explaining things... In the meantime, I just finished OoS (Onox actually gave me a bit of trouble, Veran didn't though). These would be my updated tiers.

Tier 1: OoT, MM, TP
Tier 2: LoZ, ALttP, LA, WW
Tier 3: AoL, OoS, OoA, SS
Tier 4: MC, PH, ST
Tier 5: FS, FSA

Hyrule Historia is coming January 16 for $35. I must have it!

http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/20-921/The-Legend-of-Zelda-Hyrule-Historia-HC

Quote from: Nel on August 17, 2012, 10:23:57 AM
Hyrule Historia is coming January 16 for $35. I must have it!

http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/20-921/The-Legend-of-Zelda-Hyrule-Historia-HC

Does that contain anything about development history or artwork. If it's just about things like the timeline and character stories, I'll pass. In all honesty, Zelda's lore is a bit... dead, to me. :P

There's concept art. And if that's not good enough, well, more copies for me.  :thinkin:

What do most of you guys think of Twilight Princess?

Insanely overhyped year after year until it came out. Zelda felt much more minor with Midna and Ilia around. Didn't really like the wolf gimmick, thought we spent too much time in Ordon Village, hate hate HATED that Ganon took over the antagonist role from Zant. I dunno, the second he took over, the whole thing felt like it fell flat on it's face. Ganondorf just feels... there. Also, the majority of the NPCs were ugly as hell. Design-wise, not graphic-wise.

That said, I love the nods to previous games (music stones, Old Kakariko, the Hero of Time's spirit, the Temple Of Time), I thought the Twilight Realm sections were beautiful, the overworld was awesome, I like how lively Hyrule Castle Town was, I enjoyed the dungeons and bosses, the music is great, and while I don't like Ganondorf being there, his death scene is badass.

It's the last Zelda I liked, but unlike the games before it, I didn't really want to play it again.

Fun Fact: I actually won the game in a Nintendo Power contest back in 2006. Got a Twilight Princess shirt along with it.

Oh, cool! Congrats on that!

I got TP with my launch Wii and played through a chunk of it before I lost interest. The dungeons and bosses were cool, but I didn't really like how slow everything was and how boring most of the over-world quests were.

It's sort of like Skyward Sword to me where I think its a great game on its own merits, its not really the Zelda style I enjoy. I prefer the more focused and experimental ideas of Majora's Mask or as wide and clever as Wind Waker when it comes to 3D Zelda.

I lost interest in the middle of the Temple of Time. The sidequests (which make up the bulk of Zelda for me, personally) were rather forgettable, and it didn't help that none of the Town area's where fun to explore. Compared to Wind Waker, it felt like a real step down.

It's decent, but come to think of it, I don't believe I've ever beaten it. I honestly can't remember where I left off though.

Count me in as someone who liked Wind Waker a lot better, which is still, IMO, the last truly great Zelda (haven't played Skyward Sword yet).

Be careful with spoilers, Nel. :P

Anyway, I was a big fan of TP. The dungeons blow WW's out of the water (no pun intended), and I really liked the atmosphere and story. Admittedly, some of Zelda's bad habits showed in this game, like too much filler content. But then again, are you guys letting WW get away with that? :P

Spoilers? Really? The game is six years old, man. I thought most people who cared to play it would know about that by now.

Personally, my cutoff point for spoiler tags is six months.

Still better than Skyward Sword.

Quote from: Nel on August 25, 2012, 11:50:58 AM
Spoilers? Really? The game is six years old, man. I thought most people who cared to play it would know about that by now.

Personally, my cutoff point for spoiler tags is six months.

I'm the same way. It's just that I think there are a number of people here who haven't played TP.

Quote from: Nel on August 25, 2012, 11:50:58 AM
Spoilers? Really? The game is six years old, man. I thought most people who cared to play it would know about that by now.

Personally, my cutoff point for spoiler tags is six months.

I love Zelda and I still haven't played the game yet on a count of I don't own either a GC or a Wii. I have personally avoided most spoilers as I still one day plan on playing the game.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on August 25, 2012, 11:19:57 AM
Be careful with spoilers, Nel. :P

Anyway, I was a big fan of TP. The dungeons blow WW's out of the water (no pun intended), and I really liked the atmosphere and story. Admittedly, some of Zelda's bad habits showed in this game, like too much filler content. But then again, are you guys letting WW get away with that? :P

Other than the Triforce hunt which comes near the tail end, I don't find much filler with it.

TP had filler EVERYWHERE. It's the main reason I lost interest... well that and most of the gadgets being completely useless outside of the dungeon you found them in. It was something I thought they were going to fix in SS, but ended up with other problems instead.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on August 25, 2012, 06:28:10 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on August 25, 2012, 11:19:57 AM
Be careful with spoilers, Nel. :P

Anyway, I was a big fan of TP. The dungeons blow WW's out of the water (no pun intended), and I really liked the atmosphere and story. Admittedly, some of Zelda's bad habits showed in this game, like too much filler content. But then again, are you guys letting WW get away with that? :P

Other than the Triforce hunt which comes near the tail end, I don't find much filler with it.

TP had filler EVERYWHERE. It's the main reason I lost interest... well that and most of the gadgets being completely useless outside of the dungeon you found them in. It was something I thought they were going to fix in SS, but ended up with other problems instead.

TP had filler in the intro, in the repeated Lost Woods portion, and finding those letters before the final dungeon. All of those are quite short. I guess you could make an argument for the wolf parts, but even then, those are a pretty big part of the game's story and atmosphere.

WW had the Triforce hunt which was pretty long, as well as those 2 sections before the Earth and Wind dungeons where you gotta go constantly run back and forth between finding items to reach the dungeon, as well as finding the Sages. That amounts to a larger amount of time.

A game with filler EVERYWHERE, is SS. :P

The intro to TP was most definitely NOT short. It was one of my biggest pet peeves.

I didn't say WW had no filler, but it was a lot more enjoyable (Hunt aside) than any of the quests in TP in which I also found the wolf parts really dull.

But as I said previously I'm not the biggest 3D Zelda fan so I already know my opinion on it isn't popular.

So I feel like trying to rank all the Zelda games from worst to best, as well as putting in reasons for them. I'll start at the bottom and work up toward the top. It's spoiler-free, so anyone can read it all if they are curious. Prepare for a lot of writing.

#16
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The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords
Is it a crime that this game is lowest on the list? Certainly not. It's little more than a multiplayer mini-game. They didn't intend for Ocarina of Time quality. What this game set out to do, it does adequately. It's nothing special. But for a single playthrough, it's fun to check out with friends, especially now that it's playable without all the crap that was necessary in its GBA form.

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The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures
Again, AAA quality wasn't expected from this game. Four Swords Adventures is essentially a better version of Four Swords, but with more story and a whole lot of A Link to the Past nostalgia. Like its predecessor, this game is fun for a single playthrough. Plus, it's also one of the most visually appealing games in the series, hence why I used such a big image to represent it. Wish I had gotten a waterfall picture...

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The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
Phantom Hourglass is, hands down, the worst traditional Zelda game. This mostly has to do with the infamous Temple of the Ocean King, which is the single worst part of the entire series. It's repetitive (because you're forced to go through it multiple times through the game), and its timed, just to make you do it all over again if you fail right before the end. And that's among the other problems, like the dungeons aren't too inspired, the controls are a bit flimsy, and the music is boring for the most part. But on the other hand, a few puzzles are clever, the story can be interesting, Linebeck is one of the best characters in this whole series, and the humor is also great. In no way is Phantom Hourglass a top tier game, but that's not easy to achieve in this franchise. Weak Zelda game, but good game in its own right. Good fun.

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The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks
I know people on this site tend to lug this in with Phantom Hourglass, but have you guys actually played it? It's far from perfect, but the majority of its issues are things it just couldn't let go of from the last game (such as the mediocre stylus controls). But aside from those, Spirit Tracks is quite an enjoyable game. Plus, it features Princess Zelda in her best role... at least as of the time of this game's release. The dungeons are solid, items pretty fun, the soundtrack is simply awesome, the story's good, and just some great Zelda moments in general can be found in this game. Plus, they replaced the Temple of the Ocean King with one of the more clever dungeons in the series, the Tower of Spirits. Again, it's definitely held back from Phantom Hourglass issues, but Spirit Tracks still fixed many of that game's flaws and created an adventure that's much more enjoyable.

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The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
The last top-down, 2D Zelda released as of now. The Minish Cap seems to be a favorite here... Why, though? I think it's a noticeable step below the handheld Zelda games that came before it. Truthfully, I was close to giving this spot to Spirit Tracks because I think that game is just as enjoyable, but I ended up giving it to this out of respect (as I far prefer the direction and concepts of this game for the series overall). But I guess that's enough hating on it, because The Minish Cap is still a solid game. A little too easy and short, but its overworld, dungeons, music, and combat were great. It also features Vaati at his best. And I loved the final battle. I also loved the subtle storytelling of this game (sadly though, it seems Nintendo no longer cares about it). Let's hope that Nintendo decides to go through with their plans to make another 2D Zelda.

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Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
A game that was released in a time where sequels were a new thing, and it shows. It should go without saying, but Zelda II is very different from its predecessor, not to mention every other game in the franchise. I can wholly understand why others would dislike this game, but I think that Zelda II was a great game. It introduced some things that are commonplace in Zelda now, such as towns. It also had deeper combat and magic, which is now a thing of the past. And of course, it's by far the hardest game in the series. But you know, with the exception of being thrown back to the very beginning after every Game Over (that was very annoying), I think this game's challenge is pretty fair. It's nowhere near the hardest game on the Nintendo. That challenge might make it harder to pick up and replay than some other games, but I still think Zelda II was a fine game, and beating it is an accomplishment for any gamer.

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The Legend of Zelda
The original. The beginning of this legendary franchise, and one of the forefathers of the RPG genre, The Legend of Zelda just barely made my top 10. That's not because it's a weak game, it's just that many games in the series took this game's ideas, and improved on them. The controls are a bit limited, some secrets are too hard to find without a walkthrough, and the overworld map is unreadable. But putting those aside, what's funny is that other games expanded on these ideas so much, that this game is practically unique in the series now. There's more real exploration, the storyline is less scripted, the challenge is higher than any other game in the series (excluding Zelda II), and some of the items in this game were never seen again. It is no longer one of the greatest games ever, but it's definitely one of the most important, for we would've never had Zelda without it.

#9
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The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons
This game, as well as its partner, Oracle of Ages, is frequently seen as one of the best titles in the series. And I completely understand why. Because it's excellent. The dungeons are all great, especially later on. Also, the items are seriously awesome, some of the best in the series (but many were never seen again). I'd also like to mention that final boss battle, which is probably one of the hardest fights in the entire series. The ability to play around with seasons adds much variety to the gameplay, and the inclusion of another entire world only adds to that.

#8
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The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages
The other game in the pair. I can see why anyone would have trouble picking which of these games is better. But to me, it's definitely Oracle of Ages. The level design is just a little more clever (the items aren't quite as good, though). Plus, the story is far more engaging, because of characters like Nayru, who is far more developed than Din, and Veran who is a much better villain than Onox. Also, the soundtrack is fantastic. In addition to those, I preferred the ability to control time. I just think it changed things more than control over seasons did. But I guess comparing these games is pointless, as they are both excellent and essential. And linking them together creates a fantastic Zelda experience.

#7
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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Don't hate, guys. Skyward Sword is a great game. I can see the problems that most have with it, and they do keep it from the ranks of the very best. It's padded with tedious busywork, Fi is annoying, a lot of the motion controls are simply tacked on, and so on. But you know what? How much bad can all that really be? If you can look past it, Skyward Sword is a very enjoyable adventure. It has some ingenious dungeon design, and that includes some of my favorite Zelda dungeons ever. It has an excellent central town which, in this series, is only beaten by Clock Town from Majora's Mask. Wii Motion Plus' implementation isn't perfect, but it's good enough and offers a fresh way to play Zelda. The music is a mixed bag. Some songs were just beautiful, but others aren't so memorable. The story's execution got a bit heavy-handed in parts, but I really love the connection between Link and Zelda here. It's for that reason that Skyward Sword has one of my favorite openings in the series, because there's just something so... warm, about it. You truly do care that Link wants to protect Zelda. And that's the mark of a good game. Skyward Sword kept me invested.

#6
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The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
Capcom's Oracle duo was great. But in my opinion, they did not quite top Nintendo's own handheld achievement, Link's Awakening. This is definitely one of the more... quirky games in the series, mainly because the events of this game are a dream (I consider that to be as much of a spoiler as Darth Vader being Luke's father is). The dungeons are all great, and the overworld is more filled than perhaps any other game in the series. And I just love the atmosphere of this game, which is helped by the soundtrack. I should also mention the humor, which is some of the best in the series. And when this game was re-relased on the GBC, the humor and quirkiness was only heightened. I should also mention, Link's Awakening has one of the best Zelda storylines. First of all is the bond between Link and Marin, which I feel is one of the best in the series (probably only beaten by Link and Zelda in Skyward Sword). But on top of that is the idea to make this adventure a dream, which actually makes it much better. Just put yourself in Link's place. You get attached to these people in a tropical paradise, and maybe even finding yourself falling for a cute girl there (who's obviously into you). But you still have a home that you must return to, and the only way to do that is to erase Koholint Island. Forever... You have to admit, that's pretty heavy, particularly for a series that isn't known for grade-A storytelling. And I think the game's story and atmosphere can be felt strongly in its signature musical piece, the Ballad of the Wind Fish. It's just one more way that Link's Awakening stepped out of Zelda's comfort zone. And it was all the better for that.

#5
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The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
The definitive 2D Zelda experience. A Link to the Past is a masterfully crafted Zelda adventure from start to finish, with perfect pacing, fantastic dungeons, a complete overworld, a captivating storyline, and more. The Zelda team wisely took the concepts of the original Zelda and built them into something far greater. I love the introduction of two different worlds in this game, as both the light and dark worlds are very thrilling. I loved the action in this game, despite it being limited to very few abilities. The final battle against Ganon is very memorable, and I also love the suspense that's built up to his appearance... And beyond all that, A Link to the Past just means something special to me. It was the very first Zelda game I ever played. I remember how much I loved going to my friend's house back then, to play this game. And I remember how awesome it was to eventually own it for myself. It was my favorite video game. Over the course of time, that friend and I long ago parted ways, but I think we'll always have the memories of this game to look back on and smile at. As I became a fan of the series and played more of these games, A Link to the Past took a few steps back to other games. But even still, it's quality has stood the test of time perfectly, and it is still deserving of a spot in my top 5. Would it be in this spot had I not grown up with it? I would say yes. My decision to place it here had very little to do with nostalgia.

#4
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The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
Now we're really getting into top tier Zelda material. The Wind Waker is a beautiful game, in more ways than just the graphics... But since I can't not talk about that, it's definitely worth mentioning that The Wind Waker is one of the most beautiful looking games in the series. So many sites, such as the endless ocean, are just gorgeous to look at. But that's not all this game has to offer. The Wind Waker captures the feeling of adventure perfectly. Was the ocean too big? Maybe, but I don't care. Sailing as the moon rise over those waters, wondering what I would find was so fun, no matter if I came across a submarine housing a great treasure, or the haunting Ghost Ship. Touches like that just aren't found in recent games like Skyward Sword. The Great Sea was filled with mystery. In fact, I still haven't found everything there is to get out there. As for the main quest, this game presents to you one of the best Zelda storylines yet, with an ending that's both emotional and beautiful, as well as the best villain in the series and possibly one of the greatest video game antagonists ever. The dungeon design is also great. It's true that the main temples are a step down from previous games in terms of quality. However, the game more than makes up for that with the side dungeons that you find across the ocean. Some of them are required, such as that labyrinth where you sink deeper and deeper into the earth fighting monsters, or the mysterious basement of a seemingly safe beach house. Others are completely optional, like one where you find an entire nest of ChuChus (just to remind people who forget, ChuChus are monsters made of jelly and appear in different colors). I would also like to talk about the combat. Not only are the controls more smooth than the Nintendo 64 Zelda games, but this game also introduced an amusing "Parry" attack, which is more effective than the regular sword attacks. And then there are the items which are great and plentiful, the best of which being the grappling hook. The music is awesome in this game. Zelda music has never been as versatile as it is here, and this game features some of the most recognized songs in the series. Did I miss anything? I could talk about how good this game is for hours, but you guys probably get it. The Wind Waker is great.

#3
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The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
It seems like hardcore Zelda fans are divided on which GameCube Zelda (unless you consider Twilight Princess to be a Wii title) they prefer. To me, it's a close call. But Twilight Princess edges out over The Wind Waker. It's such a beautiful, atmospheric game with fantastic gameplay. On top of that is a very well written and emotional story, and you've got a masterpiece of game design. Twilight Princess has arguably the greatest dungeons in the entire series, particularly the later ones. It also features Wolf Link, who travels around the Twilight. As for the Twilight itself, it's a key component of the plot, but fans have mixed opinions on it from a gameplay point of view. Admittedly, it's not the hell on earth that they really could've made it into, but I don't think it's bad, nor does it actually detract from the overall experience. Because Twilight Princess really is a great experience. The character named Midna is a big part of it. I won't say much about her or the story itself, because I know there are a few people here who haven't beaten this game yet. But I don't think you'll be disappointed. In the story, there is one plot twist that some people didn't like. Again, I won't spoil, but I'll just say that I think it was great, and leave it at that. Twilight Princess also has one of the biggest inventories in the series. They aren't all used much, but they are very fun to use, and by this point I think we're all used to Zelda items that are ignored after a single dungeon. This also has the best mini-games in the series, with the single best being the fishing pond. That was in previous games, but it's the best by far here. In addition to being much more fun, it also has fantastic atmosphere. And that's something Twilight Princess really excels at, in every single way from beginning to end. The soundtrack greatly contributed to this fact, too. It's not as versatile as The Wind Waker's music. However, I think it's the most emotional Zelda soundtrack, and arguably the best in the entire series. In so many ways, this game is so top notch. In 2004, Twilight Princess was introduced and was given one of the biggest applauds in video game history. And in 2006, they truly delivered.

#2
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The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
The big one. Nintendo's signature piece de resistance. A title that's frequently considered to be the greatest video game ever released, Ocarina of Time is a legend in the world of gaming. And that's not all just due to its importance, because Ocarina of Time's quality stands on its own. It is simply a perfect package. While other games in the franchise have their setbacks, like Phantom Hourglass' Temple of the Ocean King or Twilight Princess' wolf segments, Ocarina of Time doesn't have anything of the sort. It's nearly flawless. Its pacing is unbelievably slick, its top quality dungeon design never falters, its side content is quite enjoyable, its music is consistently great, and even the graphics aren't unappealing over a decade after the game's release. And then there's the ability to switch between child and adult Link, a concept that is similar, but superior, to A Link to the Past's two worlds. All of this is held together by a storyline that might not have as much of an emotional punch as later installments. But even still, it keeps you engaged with some of the most memorable plot twists in any video game. Everyone remembers that iconic scene of Link pulling the Master Sword from that pedestal, only to wake up as an adult in a cruel, harsh world unlike the comforting one that he had grown accustomed to. And the only way for him to emerge victorious was to accept this world, to conquer dungeons and grow in strength until you can defeat anything. Once you vanquish Ganon and save Zelda, you look back and remember the experience. And quite an experience it was. Ocarina of Time will live forever in the world of gaming.

#1
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The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Ocarina of Time, as stated earlier, was hailed by many as the best game ever. So how on earth could you possibly top that? Well, in the end, I didn't have an easy time picking another game over it. But Majora's Mask still won. This game is a perfect example of how to sequel a perfect game. Ocarina of Time was virtually flawless, so all they had to do was build on that while still giving the game its own spin to become something original. For Miyamoto to have given us two games like this, the Nintendo 64 era was probably the golden age for Zelda. First Ocarina of Time brought us a perfect package. And then Majora's Mask fleshed that out. It might've been smaller, with a more compact world and fewer dungeons. But the dungeons that are there are all genius, ending with what is arguably the best dungeon in the whole series. Majora's Mask's field is also a step in the right direction for Zelda, containing quite a few secrets and easter eggs. In the center of it is Clock Town which is, by far, the greatest town in the entire series. Not only is it a central piece of the story, it is also filled with awesome side quests, including a well known one that takes place over the course of three days. And speaking which, the three-day system was a smart creation, as it allowed far more character development than Zelda has been able to see since. Because of that, Majora's Mask has the best storyline in the series. Instead of being filled with cutscenes, the storyline is told in passing through the environment, a method of storytelling that video games can be the best at. And then there are the regions that you must explore, each being well designed and atmospheric. There are also the masks, with transformation masks that bring much variety to the gameplay, as well as regular masks that can be used either in a sidequest, or to progress in the main storyline. I could go on, but I'll stop here. Majora's Mask is just a great game. It's the most emotional Zelda game, but it also has fantastic gameplay to go with that. It's the greatest Zelda, and one of my favorite video games of all time.

... I think I went on long enough. That sure took a lot of time to write out. But anyway, so those are my opinions on every Zelda game, and how they compare to each other. If you choose to read it, feel free to respond to it or ask me anything you want. I congratulate anyone who can get through all that gibberish. :P

Great list and rankings!

I remember a long time ago, EGM made a "greatest games of all time" list, and had both Ocarina and Majora right outside of the top 10, with MM ranking just one slot higher. It was a controversial opinion they defended, and one that few people have made since, but it's a refreshing change, and quite deserving, at that.

Great list!

Wholeheartedly agree with Majora's Mask at #1; playing through it again right now (up to Great Bay, by the way), this is the complete Zelda experience, even moreso than OoT (not, of course, taking anything away from OoT; this just improves upon the formula so much). In particular, the emotion; no Zelda game can match the emotion of Majora's Mask, from the impending sense of doom, to the sense of awakening you give these worlds like Snowhead and the Deku Palace when you take down the monster polluting those respective lands. And the sidequests... you've got to love those sidequests. There's just so much to do beyond saving the world, in a way no other Zelda has yet to match, with all of the shooting galleries, mini-games, and even just little stuff like the Bank and Curiosity Shop. And lest I not forget, the wonderful supporting cast. To this day, no Zelda has given us the kind of cast Majora's Mask has to offer; Anju and Kafei, Romani and Cremia, the Gormon Brothers, the Indigo-Go's... you can't help but appreciate the sense of depth it gives you with how all of these characters are connected and tied together.

I don't want to take anything away from the rest of the list (probably would've ranked the Capcom twins a little higher, and Spirit Tracks/PH lower), but I simply don't have enough nice things to say about Majora's Mask. It is such a great game, and easily one of my all-time favorites (top 10 for sure, probably even top 5).

Quote from: Avaitor on October 23, 2012, 07:23:01 PM
Great list and rankings!

I remember a long time ago, EGM made a "greatest games of all time" list, and had both Ocarina and Majora right outside of the top 10, with MM ranking just one slot higher. It was a controversial opinion they defended, and one that few people have made since, but it's a refreshing change, and quite deserving, at that.

Think I missed that list. But I can't tell what's more surprising between seeing someone rank MM above OoT, or simply seeing them not put OoT in the top 10 at all. :P

Quote from: Kiddington on October 23, 2012, 07:52:57 PM
Great list!

Wholeheartedly agree with Majora's Mask at #1; playing through it again right now (up to Great Bay, by the way), this is the complete Zelda experience, even moreso than OoT (not, of course, taking anything away from OoT; this just improves upon the formula so much). In particular, the emotion; no Zelda game can match the emotion of Majora's Mask, from the impending sense of doom, to the sense of awakening you give these worlds like Snowhead and the Deku Palace when you take down the monster polluting those respective lands. And the sidequests... you've got to love those sidequests. There's just so much to do beyond saving the world, in a way no other Zelda has yet to match, with all of the shooting galleries, mini-games, and even just little stuff like the Bank and Curiosity Shop. And lest I not forget, the wonderful supporting cast. To this day, no Zelda has given us the kind of cast Majora's Mask has to offer; Anju and Kafei, Romani and Cremia, the Gormon Brothers, the Indigo-Go's... you can't help but appreciate the sense of depth it gives you with how all of these characters are connected and tied together.

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. There's something very real about the story in MM, mainly because of the characters and their emotions. I think a lot of this is thanks to the fact that the developers didn't need to start from scratch when making this game. They were able to recycle the graphics, as well as a lot of character models, from OoT. And that gave them the ability to focus entirely on game content. If Zelda Wii U turns out to be something special, I wouldn't mind them pulling a similar strategy and having a direct sequel out 2 years later.

Quote from: Kiddington on October 23, 2012, 07:52:57 PM
I don't want to take anything away from the rest of the list (probably would've ranked the Capcom twins a little higher, and Spirit Tracks/PH lower), but I simply don't have enough nice things to say about Majora's Mask. It is such a great game, and easily one of my all-time favorites (top 10 for sure, probably even top 5).

I see what you mean. I actually felt bad that the Oracle games were as low as they were, but I just really liked Skyward Sword. I thought from the beginning that I'd probably give the win to Majora's Mask in the end. Probably be in my top 5, too. I can only imagine it getting beaten by the Mario Galaxy games, and maybe a few multiplayers.

And thanks, guys.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on October 23, 2012, 11:25:37 PM

Quote from: Avaitor on October 23, 2012, 07:23:01 PM
Great list and rankings!

I remember a long time ago, EGM made a "greatest games of all time" list, and had both Ocarina and Majora right outside of the top 10, with MM ranking just one slot higher. It was a controversial opinion they defended, and one that few people have made since, but it's a refreshing change, and quite deserving, at that.

Think I missed that list. But I can't tell what's more surprising between seeing someone rank MM above OoT, or simply seeing them not put OoT in the top 10 at all. :P

I was wrong- they both made it in the top 10.

Here's the list. (http://sunriseblvd.wordpress.com/2008/07/15/egms-100-best-games-ever/)

Edit: Oh wow, this list is not as good as I remember. Why would you go with the All-Stars version of SMB over the original?

I'd be interested in seeing if any of you guys can do a list (you don't have to go all pics and details, like I did).

Uh, all I can really think of is that I'd put Four Swords Adventure and ALTTP a little higher. Otherwise, I really like your list.

Quote from: Avaitor on October 25, 2012, 12:12:43 PM
Uh, all I can really think of is that I'd put Four Swords Adventure and ALTTP a little higher. Otherwise, I really like your list.

I'm assuming TP, too? I kind of remember you favoring that one.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on October 25, 2012, 12:23:49 PM

Quote from: Avaitor on October 25, 2012, 12:12:43 PM
Uh, all I can really think of is that I'd put Four Swords Adventure and ALTTP a little higher. Otherwise, I really like your list.

I'm assuming TP, too? I kind of remember you favoring that one.

It's one of my very favorites, yes, but TP is fine where it is. :)

I'd move the Oracles above Link's Awakening and swap Wind Waker and TP. Awesome list otherwise! :thumbup:

Not really a list guy, but I'd definitely move the Oracles to the top, FSA much higher, and Skyward Sword would fall right down with the DS titles and Zelda II.

Good list. Honestly, I'm just glad the the next 3DS Zelda won't be like the DS titles (since those bombed) as Nintendo promised. I can only hope we finally get a top-down Zelda for the system. It's been too long.

This article isn't exactly the newest of news, but for some reason it's been revived lately and discussed. It is rumored ideas about Zelda Wii U.

http://wiiudaily.com/2012/09/wii-u-zelda-game-coming-2014/

If you're curious what I think, I'll just cope and paste what I said elsewhere to here.

QuoteI'm not saying this stuff won't happen. We just shouldn't be so sure that it will. Not to mention, that's not really new news.

But for the sake of discussion, let's talk as if this is indeed factual. As for the graphics idea, not sure. I think Skyward Sword looked quite good. I just can't help but question Nintendo, because the majority of people really didn't like that look. I'm mixed on the gameplay ideas as well. "It'll be the most innovative game ever"? Wasn't Skyward Sword also supposed to be the most innovative game ever? Sometimes, I don't think Nintendo will ever learn. Not every Zelda has to be the most innovative game ever. Honestly, you can take that entire article, change a few words here and there, and it'll be almost the exact same as one of those pre-release Skyward Sword articles. Just read this last paragraph and imagine Skyward Sword instead of Zelda Wii U, and imagine Wii instead of Wii U.

The Wii U Zelda game will redefine gaming with its features and innovation, and will offer things that only the Wii U can do. ?It?ll have some revolutionizing gameplay. It has stuff that would never be possible on any other console, and it?s not just one cool feature, it?s one cool feature after another. Each dungeon will offer a different gameplay experience with the tablet controller. It?ll be the most innovative game ever, they got stuff that will be copied by others for years.?

All said and done, the ideas and thoughts posted here sound okay. You just can't help but think that it's so typical.

It will be interesting when the next Zelda comes out because then Skyward Sword will be the best Zelda ever.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 03, 2012, 01:13:59 PM
It will be interesting when the next Zelda comes out because then Skyward Sword will be the best Zelda ever.

What?

Quote from: talonmalon333 on December 03, 2012, 01:31:22 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 03, 2012, 01:13:59 PM
It will be interesting when the next Zelda comes out because then Skyward Sword will be the best Zelda ever.

What?

The Zelda cycle.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 03, 2012, 03:18:53 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on December 03, 2012, 01:31:22 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 03, 2012, 01:13:59 PM
It will be interesting when the next Zelda comes out because then Skyward Sword will be the best Zelda ever.

What?

The Zelda cycle.

How is that even relevant to what I said? :P

You were talking about the next Zelda.

My reaction is that the most interesting part of the next Zelda will be finding out how Skyward Sword is the best Zelda game due to the Zelda cycle.

I'd like to take this moment to kindly call bullshit on the Zelda cycle theory. :P

I know there's the whole "Zelda fans constantly change their minds the horror! Skyward Sword is so good don't you people see you're wrong because it's just a phase!" idea. That certain people within the Zelda fanbase will complain about certain things makes sense... but that's because they are just people with their own opinions. I haven't come across a single person who shifts back and forth between their opinions on a whim like implied by the Zelda cycle. I imagine there are a few, but that's nothing really. Yes, some people prefer one thing over the other, but it doesn't randomly change with the times. They just get vocal about something they don't like. The people who were pissed about Wind Waker's graphics got vocal when they say it was cartoony, and vice versa for Twilight Princess. Same could be said about the sailing and wolf stuff in them. But those people didn't randomly change their minds afterwards; they were separate people within one group. Many of them still exist today, and those who changed their mind simply let it go. Nothing to do with some made-up cycle.

I think I tend to get annoyed by it from coming across these hardcore Skyward Sword fans crying that everyone is trying to bully them, claiming that the only reason we haven't been enlightened on how "revolutionary and magnificent" the game supposedly is, is because we're apparently in some dumb fanboy phase, going through the motions of the Zelda cycle. Trust me, it makes discussion on the topic painful cause it's their only card. :P

Yes, many of us have had a mixed response to Skyward Sword, moreso than for the other previous 3D games... But it's not because of some random phase. It's completely a reaction to some weird and questionable design choices. Skyward Sword has gotten less love because Nintendo managed to do more to piss people off this time. One simply cannot take things like its extreme linearity, holding the players by the hand to the point of insulting their intelligence, the constant fetchquests and recycling of old areas, as well as other minor things, and say "Oh they are just going through a phase. There's nothing to complain about". And in the end, I can assure you that Skyward Sword will never be seen as the best Zelda ever by the large group in the fanbase.

I also say this as someone who hasn't ever been effected by the whole Zelda cycle idea. I have loved Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask since I was a young child (I'm also one of the people who was a Majora's Mask fan before it was "cool"). Just the same, I adored Wind Waker and Twilight Princess even if they had a few pacing issues. I think Skyward Sword was also a damn fine game despite being heavily flawed (flaws I am quite capable of looking past for the most part, but I wouldn't question anyone who disliked the game because of them).

... So yeah, that's it for my rant. As you can tell, I am quite firm with this belief. It's nothing at all against what you said, so no worries. But anyway, you've heard my thoughts now, so I'd be interested in hearing yours if you wish. ;)

I believe Desensitized is referring to how Zelda fans (and many Nintendo fans in general), will find every reason they can to nitpick and complain about the newest game coming out and then talk about how great the previous installment was despite most of them probably complaining about that game when it was first coming out as well and overrating the game that came before it. Or at least that's what I think he's referring to, as that's what I usually tend to notice with each new major release in the Zelda franchise.

Another example is when a lot of people used to complain about Majora's Mask not being nearly as good as Ocarina of Time, but then when people look back on both games a lot of people see MM as the better game. I'm actually not one of those people, though I do like both games, but I'm just pointing it out that a lot of people have since changed their minds on the matter.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 03, 2012, 04:09:56 PM
I believe Desensitized is referring to how Zelda fans (and many Nintendo fans in general), will find every reason they can to nitpick and complain about the newest game coming out and then talk about how great the previous installment was despite most of them probably complaining about that game when it was first coming out as well and overrating the game that came before it. Or at least that's what I think he's referring to, as that's what I usually tend to notice with each new major release in the Zelda franchise.

Another example is when a lot of people used to complain about Majora's Mask not being nearly as good as Ocarina of Time, but then when people look back on both games a lot of people see MM as the better game. I'm actually not one of those people, though I do like both games, but I'm just pointing it out that a lot of people have since changed their minds on the matter.

True. I just think that the whole Zelda cycle is an exaggeration, and that it's really nothing more than certain sub-divisions of the fanbase who get vocal about things they dislike in the games, rather than people constantly changing their opinions.

You can consider this as my tl;dr version of my above rant. :P

I was actually writing that post of mine before you posted your response to Desen, but you had already made that post by the time I posted my response up so I hadn't read your post yet. :D

It may be somewhat of an exaggeration, but I have noticed that pattern among the fan base as well, though to be fair I'm considerably more distant from the core Zelda fan base than you are so you probably know better in that regard.

As for me, I'm way behind on the Zelda games, anyways, and I really need to get around to playing Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword one of these days. I also want to try Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. I know that neither of those games are liked by anyone on this particular board, but they have gotten generally positive reception and I find that I can disagree with you guys about the games that I like in at least a few instances, anyways, so I still feel compelled to try both of those titles, especially since I really enjoyed The Wind Waker's story and want to see the continuation of it.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 03, 2012, 04:18:33 PM
I was actually writing that post of mine before you posted your response to Desen, but you had already made that post by the time I posted my response up so I hadn't read your post yet. :D

It may be somewhat of an exaggeration, but I have noticed that pattern among the fan base as well, though to be fair I'm considerably more distant from the core Zelda fan base than you are so you probably know better in that regard.

As for me, I'm way behind on the Zelda games, anyways, and I really need to get around to playing Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword one of these days. I also want to try Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. I know that neither of those games are liked by anyone on this particular board, but they have gotten generally positive reception and I find that I can disagree with you guys about the games that I like in at least a few instances, anyways, so I still feel compelled to try both of those titles, especially since I really enjoyed The Wind Waker's story and want to see the continuation of it.

No worries. The 2-sentence version of that post probably got the point across better than my ramblings, anyway. ;D

I do imagine there are indeed some people who switch their opinions when new games come out. But like you mentioned in your above post, that goes beyond Zelda and could be said about other franchises as well.

As for those games you mentioned, I agree and highly recommend them. I'm not sure what your console plans are, but I imagine the Wii is getting lower and lower in price (I'm actually seeing it run for as low as $70 range on Amazon). Twilight Princess is one of my favorite games ever (I think Avaitor was a fan as well). And though my earlier post might lead anyone to think otherwise, I really did like Skyward Sword as a whole. Glad you're interested in the DS games, too. Phantom Hourglass has some repetition that I imagine you'll likely agree with when you get to play it, but as a stand alone game it's still quite good. I was actually a fan of Spirit Tracks. Sure, it might not be as good as most of the other games in the series, but it was still very good and had some surprisingly funny moments. It also fixed a lot of issues from Phantom Hourglass, like replacing the repetitive parts with something similar but awesome. Oh, and the music is simply awesome, such as the main theme (which was used in promotion for the game, so posting it here isn't much of a spoiler). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W_bFLwB0WY

I still remember the Majora's Mask reaction. It was pretty vicious at the time. Much the same as Wind Waker's reveal.

Honestly, I just want a classic top down Zelda on the 3DS and a Zelda closer to Majora's Mask or Wind Waker on the U. I want them to step away from the ALTTP/OOT style and the linear ideas of SS and try something new again for the U.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 03, 2012, 11:24:34 PM
I still remember the Majora's Mask reaction. It was pretty vicious at the time. Much the same as Wind Waker's reveal.

Honestly, I just want a classic top down Zelda on the 3DS and a Zelda closer to Majora's Mask or Wind Waker on the U. I want them to step away from the ALTTP/OOT style and the linear ideas of SS and try something new again for the U.

I think something I really want now is a good world, with plenty of content and depth. That might be why I kind of think a western developer or something would be a benefit, and is why I am in support of a Retro Studios Zelda. Even if it's just a collaboration with them, I truly believe it could benefit the series. That, and they need to change up the gameplay to get out of this fetchquest-dungeon-fetchquest pattern that they've fallen into.

But every Zelda game is like that. Majora's Mask has plenty of fetch-quests, albeit with a twist on it pertaining to the game's 3-day gimmick, and the 2D Zelda games aren't the least bit shy of them either. I usually end up having to get some item (or rather "fetch" it, if you will), in order to progress to another part of the game, and so on and so forth. That's just part of the standard Zelda formula, really, but I honestly don't mind it as long as the adventure elements along the way are fun to play through. For me, a great Zelda experience isn't determined by the goal of what you are doing but rather how much fun you have actually doing it, as it pretty much is for all games, really.

Also, the Ocarina of Time style is great. Its popular for a reason and I don't want to see it go away just because its the dominant style. And for the record, aside from having sailing in it and having a cartoony art-style, The Wind Waker wasn't really that much different from the regular Zelda formula (which is fine with me as I love the game the way it is). Majora's Mask is really the only one you can argue to have a gimmick that really ends up changing the core gameplay formula of the game, but even then it still feels very much like a Zelda game, but just with more experimentation, which I'm also fine with.

My gripe with MM, though, and the reason I don't love it quite as much as you guys do (I do like it, I just have issues with it), is how the gimmick is terrific on paper, but can be quite annoying for me in execution. I love how the whole time system works in terms of having different events happen on different days which effects whether you can access certain areas or not, and how you can travel back in time and such to effect certain events that happen on later days. The problem I've always had is how the game handles the system. I honestly would have rather it given you manual control over the time and let you choose to progress to a later point in time in the game at your own will. Yeah, that's kind of not realistic but it is a game and the point is to have fun, and that mechanic wouldn't break the game as much as it would just make it more convenient to play. You see, I HATE having games force you to stay on a strictly timed schedule. I like to take my time at certain areas, and especially in dungeons its really grating to know that I can't just do things at my own pace all the time. I know a lot of people don't have problems getting dungeons completed in time in MM, but for me I can easily get stuck on certain puzzles in each dungeon, and it puts me on the edge because I know that every second I waste is dwindling the time I have left to complete the dungeon before the end of the 3 days (and yes, I always have the time slowed down, but it still only takes 10 minutes for a day to end and night to come on, and that goes by pretty quickly for me). Of course, you could always save your progress, but that brings me to my other problem. I hate the save system in this game. I hate having to go back in time to save your progress and losing all of your loose items in the process. I just find that to be a pretty annoying mechanic, honestly. Sure, there are the owl statues, but those can only ever be used once at a time, so if you were to start up a game after saving there you'd effectively lose that save until you saved again regularly.

Anyways, while that IS honestly a big problem for me, personally, I still do like the game on the whole. I just can't personally agree that its better than Ocarina of Time, which I still think is a brilliant game, personally.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 04, 2012, 12:08:51 AM
But every Zelda game is like that. Majora's Mask has plenty of fetch-quests, albeit with a twist on it pertaining to the game's 3-day gimmick, and the 2D Zelda games aren't the least bit shy of them either. I usually end up having to get some item (or rather "fetch" it, if you will), in order to progress to another part of the game, and so on and so forth. That's just part of the standard Zelda formula, really, but I honestly don't mind it as long as the adventure elements along the way are fun to play through. For me, a great Zelda experience isn't determined by the goal of what you are doing but rather how much fun you have actually doing it, as it pretty much is for all games, really.

I can't say much since you haven't played it yet, but I personally think they laid it on a little thick in Skyward Sword. You're right that the experience isn't determined by the goal of what you're doing. But I think Skyward Sword's fetchquests just became busy work, like you're about to do something really awesome but then the game tells you to go back to some random place to get an item before coming back and making progress, and it just feels like they are padding out the game's length. I didn't mind the Triforce hunt in Wind Waker, or the wolf segments in Twilight Princess (which you've probably heard a little about, and maybe why people found them boring), but Skyward Sword went a little too far.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 04, 2012, 12:08:51 AM
Also, the Ocarina of Time style is great. Its popular for a reason and I don't want to see it go away just because its the dominant style. And for the record, aside from having sailing in it and having a cartoony art-style, The Wind Waker wasn't really that much different from the regular Zelda formula (which is fine with me as I love the game the way it is). Majora's Mask is really the only one you can argue to have a gimmick that really ends up changing the core gameplay formula of the game, but even then it still feels very much like a Zelda game, but just with more experimentation, which I'm also fine with.

My gripe with MM, though, and the reason I don't love it quite as much as you guys do (I do like it, I just have issues with it), is how the gimmick is terrific on paper, but can be quite annoying for me in execution. I love how the whole time system works in terms of having different events happen on different days which effects whether you can access certain areas or not, and how you can travel back in time and such to effect certain events that happen on later days. The problem I've always had is how the game handles the system. I honestly would have rather it given you manual control over the time and let you choose to progress to a later point in time in the game at your own will. Yeah, that's kind of not realistic but it is a game and the point is to have fun, and that mechanic wouldn't break the game as much as it would just make it more convenient to play. You see, I HATE having games force you to stay on a strictly timed schedule. I like to take my time at certain areas, and especially in dungeons its really grating to know that I can't just do things at my own pace all the time. I know a lot of people don't have problems getting dungeons completed in time in MM, but for me I can easily get stuck on certain puzzles in each dungeon, and it puts me on the edge because I know that every second I waste is dwindling the time I have left to complete the dungeon before the end of the 3 days (and yes, I always have the time slowed down, but it still only takes 10 minutes for a day to end and night to come on, and that goes by pretty quickly for me). Of course, you could always save your progress, but that brings me to my other problem. I hate the save system in this game. I hate having to go back in time to save your progress and losing all of your loose items in the process. I just find that to be a pretty annoying mechanic, honestly. Sure, there are the owl statues, but those can only ever be used once at a time, so if you were to start up a game after saving there you'd effectively lose that save until you saved again regularly.

Anyways, while that IS honestly a big problem for me, personally, I still do like the game on the whole. I just can't personally agree that its better than Ocarina of Time, which I still think is a brilliant game, personally.

I understand your points. I think at least once for each dungeon in the game, I had taken all 3 days to reach the end of them (and in some of those cases, I wasn't even successful, and had to restart time and do it all over again). I mostly like Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask about equal (in fact I remember listing all the Zelda games from worst to best on this site a few months ago, and I think I put Ocarina at #2 and Majora at #1).

Another thing, hearing your issue with Majora's Mask, I think you'll also have an issue with one of the central parts of Phantom Hourglass. But I still recommend that game if you get the chance to play it. ;)

Also, I know everyone will disagree, but I'd like to mention I kinda think that...

Spirit Tracks > Minish Cap

That reminds me that I still have to get back to Minish Cap one of these days, as its a game that I actually have the means to play legally.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 07, 2012, 03:11:41 PM
That reminds me that I still have to get back to Minish Cap one of these days, as its a game that I actually have the means to play legally.

For some reason, I thought everyone here played Minish Cap. I was actually slightly late on getting to it.

As for ST, I might like it a bit more cause it has a whole lot of dungeons and good puzzles.

I didn't get to play Minish Cup. I wanted to, but just never happened.

Here's what Aonuma said about what they were thinking over for the next Zelda:

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FxuiTxLd.jpg&hash=3044f5e8f715e6a16f839b065a976fb257abdf1a)

I do wonder what these will lead to for the next game.

So why are they bringing Wind Waker to Wii U? 10 year anniversary? Purdyer graphics? New content?

Apparently they were fooling around with seeing how the old Zelda games looked in HD and thought Wind Waker looked so good in HD they wanted to remake it.

What else they've put in the game remains to be seen as this was just the announcement.

Well, it will look amazing, that's for sure.

So, uh, yeah, got Hyrule Historia in the mail today. Book is gorgeous. First section is for Skyward Sword (I didn't like the game, but all the concept art and explanations is interesting nonetheless, i.e. Zelda's harp ), second section is the explanation of the timeline, third is concept art for all the games so far (Ganondorf actually had an illustration for the Oracle games, but as he only appeared as Ganon in it they never got to use it. Looks interesting, he's really slim in that artist's style), and last is a promo manga for Skyward Sword I think. Funny thing is, it appears to focus on

Spoiler

a Link predating the SS Link, the one who first fought for Hylia and sealed demise. He has a red cape and it looks badass

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Also, the typical write-ups from Miyamoto and the other guy (Iizuka? Look, I'm tired.)

Point is, it's a great book. I can't seem to find a mention of the CD-i games though.  :lol: (Though it even includes a short paragraph on BS The Legend Of Zelda.)

Quote from: Nel_Annette on February 01, 2013, 12:50:50 AM
Funny thing is, it appears to focus on

Spoiler

a Link predating the SS Link, the one who first fought for Hylia and sealed demise. He has a red cape and it looks badass

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Spoiler

Shouldn't that refer to SS Link himself? :P

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I'm going to have to actually read it, I guess. The way it ended really made it seem like it took place before.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on February 01, 2013, 01:20:44 AM
I'm going to have to actually read it, I guess. The way it ended really made it seem like it took place before.

What I mean is that, if I remember the game's ending correctly...

Spoiler

SS Link goes back in time and is the one who seals Demise.

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No, this takes place before even that. I'm skimming it now, and the Link it focuses on (btw, massive spoilers for the end of the thing, in non-spoilery terms it definitely makes it clear the SS Link comes afterward)

Spoiler

is framed, jailed, released by the kingdom after the person who frames him dies, charges with an army against Demise, flies the red Loftwing into battle, dies after sealing Demise, and Hylia picks up his corpse and promises to reincarnate him. Flash forward to SS Link as a young boy, who then meets his bird for the first time.[/spoilers]

It says the manga is exclusive to Hyrule Historia, so I don't know if that makes it canon or what. But they should really bring the red cape into the games. Link looks awesome with it over his tunic.

But then, I never finished SS, so what do I know. Is that what happens in the game?

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What do you guys think of the Ocarina of Time remake, as well as the upcoming Wind Wake remake?

It's a good remake since it's at full 60fps with updated models, and it's portable (with Master Quest content) and with a touch screen menu. I look forward to the obvious Majora's Mask remake, though hopefully that happens after we can get an original 3DS Zelda.

I'm THRILLED for the Wind Waker remake, since it's my favorite 3D Zelda and will really enjoy playing it off-screen. I hope they add some content (a bonus dungeon or two would be great) and change the Triforce Hunt somehow, but otherwise I'm definitely looking forward to it.

I think they both look great considering the graphical power of the consoles they were released on, but they both butcher the aesthetics of their original versions (unless Wind Waker Wii U goes through big changes).

Eh, I far prefer the way the 3DS version of Ocarina looks to the N64 version. But then I've never had much love for N64 aesthetics.

As for Wind Waker, I'll have to see more footage to judge.

The only problem I had with OOT is that it didn't add any new dungeons, or include any of the features and locations that had to be cut from the original release.

My issue with Ocarina of Time 3DS is that I think they toned the brightness up a bit too much. Just look at how much brighter the colors in Hyrule Field are compared to the original. Plus, places such as the Shadow Temple and the final boss fight are far brighter than the original, and you can see more than what was intended. It just loses some of the menace.

There are also a few... strange things about it. Overall, I don't consider it a good or bad port. It's just a weird one, though it's arguably the ideal version of the game.

I actually prefer the brighter look. I'm just not a fan of darker looking games, whether its intentional or not. That's one thing that kind of bugs me about the original DMC, in terms of how dark some of those areas look. I personally prefer to be able to see my environments, so bright and colorful works just fine for me. As far as Zelda games go, they are adventure games first and foremost, so to me a broader color-palette and brighter visuals fits the tone of any Zelda game just fine. While I haven't played the 3DS version of OOT, I can easily say that I prefer the look of that game to the original graphics of the game. Either way, though, its still my personal favorite Zelda game, and my 2nd favorite game of all-time.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on February 14, 2013, 05:12:01 PM
I actually prefer the brighter look. I'm just not a fan of darker looking games, whether its intentional or not. That's one thing that kind of bugs me about the original DMC, in terms of how dark some of those areas look. I personally prefer to be able to see my environments, so bright and colorful works just fine for me. As far as Zelda games go, they are adventure games first and foremost, so to me a broader color-palette and brighter visuals fits the tone of any Zelda game just fine. While I haven't played the 3DS version of OOT, I can easily say that I prefer the look of that game to the original graphics of the game. Either way, though, its still my personal favorite Zelda game, and my 2nd favorite game of all-time.

When it comes to the brightness, I don't actually particularly mind how much brighter most of the colors in the game are too much. My main problem is  the parts that are supposed to be darker get brightened up too much, like in the final battle. In the original, I remember when Ganon launches out of the ruins of his castle and transforms, he's sort of covered in shadow, and you can barely see his monster pig form. But in Ocarina of Time 3D, the whole scene is completely visible. I just think that takes some of the atmosphere away.

EDIT:

Here's another bit. It's the scene where Link leaves the forest at the beginning and Saria says goodbye. I think it just sets the mood better with the shadows. Image comparison in the spoiler tags.

Spoiler

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.gamesradar.com%2Fimages%2Fmb%2FGamesRadar%2Fus%2FGames%2FL%2FLegend%2520of%2520Zelda%2520Ocarina%2520of%2520Time%25203D%2FEverything%2520Else%2FSuper%2520Review%2F061611_zeldacomparison_ocarina1--article_image.jpg&hash=c523610368f2568410a16f737b3c081492211839)

Spoiler

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I enjoyed the port. Better graphics, I enjoyed the brightness, I love the revamp to the Water Temple, and to a further extent, the way they handled the inventory system.

Still don't know how I feel about the WW remake. Sure, it looks good, but the bloom is turned up to eleven, and instead of looking like cartoons, the characters seem less cel-shaded, which make them look like sausage people. There's going to have to be some significant extra content for me to buy it.

I agree, the bloom and character models are both extremely off-putting. Would much rather look at/play the GameCube version.

I haven't seen any videos displaying how the game looks in motion, and still screens are not enough for me to go on. I'll reserve my judgement on the look of the HD port until I see some actual gameplay footage of it.

Quote from: Foggle on February 14, 2013, 08:44:50 PM
I agree, the bloom and character models are both extremely off-putting. Would much rather look at/play the GameCube version.

I think the released game will look different. I've noticed many early pics for games appear to be heavy on the bloom. As for the character models, they do kind of lack the simplistic charm of the original.

It's true that it's too early to say since we only got a few pics. But judging by them alone, I prefer regular Wind Waker, when running on the Nintendo Dolphin. It looks especially gorgeous.

EDIT: Looks like these pictures are too big to see them entirely here. Ah well. Opening them in a new tab should do the trick.

Spoiler

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.dm1.livefilestore.com%2Fy1p6SC63mM5wYF_IdHxHPuwmdPV7YVn3F8nsV77XWwj7mCt5z_P7eyMxszfD9vS46-hOY72vbH3MaYA8IBg5wS5qg%2FZelda%2520WW%252022.jpg%3Frdrts%3D35681319&hash=7c9fedc29b69cdce61396c22cb74f9cf02347aaa)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnintendoeverything.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F04%2Fwind_waker_dolphin-11.jpg&hash=876613e1f802f1f24a31409ec89de7fc5921c5db)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwiiuandmii.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FWind-Waker-Dolphin.jpg&hash=007bdacaeccdfc684c877bf24c8906f5e8e76982)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.dm1.livefilestore.com%2Fy1pkq-Y4Rdp3XFvliD2d9ICVND1EhmeYzux_djRFYRDAinrFlLxR-6YBJ0lkGwwHhoOgj5KURlPieWQKItpC32rrg%2FZelda%2520WW%252024.jpg%3Frdrts%3D35681350&hash=69dfdd33f9c3a8bfef322ab1d199343009aec9fc)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnintendoeverything.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F04%2Fwind_waker_dolphin-3.jpg&hash=3a0ea795114e151a623e2d6b118eaaa5c2edc26a)

Spoiler

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Man oh man that shit's drool worthy. I'd love it more if they went with that.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on February 16, 2013, 05:37:01 PM
Man oh man that shit's drool worthy. I'd love it more if they went with that.

Not only that, but it'd also be much easier to do than having to make entirely new graphics like they are now. Then they could spend that extra time creating new content. ;D

My PC gets like 10 FPS in Dolphin for most games I've tried, and that's with the normal GameCube-level graphics.

Quote from: Foggle on February 16, 2013, 06:13:56 PM
My PC gets like 10 FPS in Dolphin for most games I've tried, and that's with the normal GameCube-level graphics.

Can you translate that for the non-tech savy folk? :sweat:

Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 16, 2013, 06:22:52 PM
Can you translate that for the non-tech savy folk? :sweat:

GameCube games, even before getting buffed up with those beautiful graphic enhancements, run like PowerPoint presentations on my computer.

Quote from: Foggle on February 16, 2013, 06:26:24 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 16, 2013, 06:22:52 PM
Can you translate that for the non-tech savy folk? :sweat:

GameCube games, even before getting buffed up with those beautiful graphic enhancements, run like PowerPoint presentations on my computer.

Don't you have a solid computer?

Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 16, 2013, 07:12:34 PM
Don't you have a solid computer?

GameCube emulation is still kind of bad for non-high end computers, at least in my experience.

Quote from: Foggle on February 16, 2013, 07:32:38 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 16, 2013, 07:12:34 PM
Don't you have a solid computer?

GameCube emulation is still kind of bad for non-high end computers, at least in my experience.

What's the best your PC can run?

Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 17, 2013, 12:04:15 AM
What's the best your PC can run?

I'm not sure. I get really good performance in both The Witcher 2 and Crysis on high settings though. DirectX 10 and 11 rendering overheats my video card 50% of the time, but I could play games on DX10/11 if I had better airflow. My case is kind of terrible.

Basically, it's good enough to make most games look great and play well (except for PlanetSide 2, that's barely playable on minimum settings for me), but not a super amazing beast machine, either. As long as the GPU doesn't burn up, it'll probably last me another 3-5 years without upgrading.

I think I've decided why I'm not the biggest fan of the Ocarina of Time 3DS remake. It's not the graphics that are the problem. It's the shadows. And that might seem like a little thing. But to me, it just kills the mood at parts. Look at these three image comparisons in this spoiler tag. They are all scenes that I think worked so much better with shadows.

Spoiler

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.gamesradar.com%2Fimages%2Fmb%2FGamesRadar%2Fus%2FGames%2FL%2FLegend%2520of%2520Zelda%2520Ocarina%2520of%2520Time%25203D%2FEverything%2520Else%2FSuper%2520Review%2F061611_zeldacomparison_ocarina1--article_image.jpg&hash=c523610368f2568410a16f737b3c081492211839)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeldadungeon.net%2Fimages%2FNews%2FFolder%2F11-03-09%2FOoT-Comparison-10-Small.jpg&hash=3156f979264709605f1e94048b624098bcd20c70)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg253.imageshack.us%2Fimg253%2F9540%2Fzelda2.png&hash=8cb1462fcdf962b0169ca20ebd58f8a0107c238a)

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The last one in particular just isn't the same in the remake. I blame the Nintendo 3DS, being that they had to utilize the 3D effect (which isn't even that good or worth it anyway), and thus likely had to tone down the shadow effect. Just another reason why I think they shouldn't have even created the 3D effect.

But anyway this, among a few other things, is why I kind of prefer just sticking with the original.

Sorry, but sub-30fps will always make it the inferior version to me.

I still haven't played the 3DS remake of the game, but Ocarina of Time is still my 2nd favorite game of all time.

Yeah, the lack of shadows is pretty jarring, especially when looking at the games side by side like that.

I also think the GameCube version of Wind Waker looks better than the new one (at the moment) because the HD version's bloom is awful and the character outlines look worse.

Quote from: Foggle on April 08, 2013, 05:25:31 PM
Yeah, the lack of shadows is pretty jarring, especially when looking at the games side by side like that.

I also think the GameCube version of Wind Waker looks better than the new one (at the moment) because the HD version's bloom is awful and the character outlines look worse.

To be fair, we haven't seen the thing in motion yet. Though I do question the art style change a bit. I have no problem with them looking more like dolls, but it's an interesting change.

I restarted Skyward Sword about three days ago. The last time I played it, according to the file, was December 2011. Mother of god.

One of these games, I'll restart it as well.

To my sadness, I'm finding that I dislike it even more than I did originally. I'm going to try and get to at least the second temple before calling it quits, but I'm trying to give SS an honest chance here. I really am.

And I still have yet to play Twilight Princess. As you can all clearly see, I'm WAY behind on my Zelda gaming. That said, I'm still going to play Skyward Sword some day, despite all of the negative reception it has got from you guys. As one of the main-series Zelda games, I just can't completely resist playing it if I have the means to (which so far, I currently don't).

A lot of people really like Skyward Sword, so you might. Personally, the only reason I don't is because my Wii Motion Plus doesn't seem to work properly, rendering the game almost unplayable.

Quote from: Foggle on April 08, 2013, 07:07:02 PM
A lot of people really like Skyward Sword, so you might. Personally, the only reason I don't is because my Wii Motion Plus doesn't seem to work properly, rendering the game almost unplayable.

Grab a cheap copy of Red Steel 2 with the motion plus and give it another try.

I honestly didn't enjoy it because it had way too many corridors. I might give it another go one day but it sort of showed that I'm not the biggest fan of 3D Zelda outside of certain games.

Quote from: Foggle on April 08, 2013, 05:25:31 PM

I also think the GameCube version of Wind Waker looks better than the new one (at the moment) because the HD version's bloom is awful and the character outlines look worse.

I hope they re-release the original Wind Waker on the Wii U Virtual Console. I might just get that instead of the remake, unless they modify the character models by release date.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 08, 2013, 06:30:24 PM
To my sadness, I'm finding that I dislike it even more than I did originally. I'm going to try and get to at least the second temple before calling it quits, but I'm trying to give SS an honest chance here. I really am.

If you can power through, it does get better. The dungeons later in the game rank among the best in the series, in my opinion. The story's also enjoyable, if you're interested in that.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 08, 2013, 06:50:18 PM
And I still have yet to play Twilight Princess. As you can all clearly see, I'm WAY behind on my Zelda gaming. That said, I'm still going to play Skyward Sword some day, despite all of the negative reception it has got from you guys. As one of the main-series Zelda games, I just can't completely resist playing it if I have the means to (which so far, I currently don't).

To use a somewhat overused phrase in the Zelda fanbase, I think Skyward Sword is a good game, but a bad Zelda game. That means you'll likely enjoy it more than the majority of modern games.

Quote from: Foggle on April 08, 2013, 07:07:02 PM
A lot of people really like Skyward Sword, so you might. Personally, the only reason I don't is because my Wii Motion Plus doesn't seem to work properly, rendering the game almost unplayable.

Is your WMP broken or something? There's a small lag for me, but it's very much playable. To me the game's main problem is the repetition. If you're someone who doesn't like that, this game can be torture. :P

Right now, it's a combination of three things.

-The controls are awful. I don't know if my Wii Motion Plus is fucked up too, but sword-fighting is awful and Link won't balance on ropes for shit.

-Fi is annoying. I don't need to be told what to do every two minutes by the most boring side character in the series. Dowsing is useless. The game kept telling me to use dowsing to find the missing Kiwi's or whatever they're called. Guess what? I found all of them without using the dowsing system at all. Telling me to use it in the next area to find Zelda? Could she be in that giant ass temple on the other side of the map? Sure enough, I used the dowsing here and it did pinpoint at the giant temple. It seems like such an unnecessary feature.

-This game is ugly. I'm not trying to sound like a graphics whore here, I still love the Wind Waker's grapics, I still liked Twilight Princess', I like Sonic Colors, all standard definition games. Skyward Sword is ass-ugly. I don't know if they were trying to use an art style to give everything a pastel painting look, but faraway objects are incredibly blurry and it just looks terrible.

I will power through, Talon. I didn't spend $50 to not play this game.  :lol: But the further I play this game, the more I'm remembering why I put it down in the first place.  Which is disheartening. I was super excited for this back in 2011.

Music's still baller, though.  :thinkin:

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 08, 2013, 07:10:44 PM
Grab a cheap copy of Red Steel 2 with the motion plus and give it another try.

Yeah, I know, I've been meaning to for a while. :sweat:

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 08, 2013, 07:14:19 PM
Is your WMP broken or something?

Yes. It only reads my movements correctly about 20% of the time.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 08, 2013, 07:22:52 PM
-The controls are awful. I don't know if my Wii Motion Plus is fucked up two, but sword-fighting is awful and Link won't balance on ropes for shit.

This is exactly my problem with the game as well.

I actually agree about the graphics. I'm not one to put much stock in graphics, but I didn't really like SS's art-style all too much. It was really blurry (and I was playing on an standard def TV) and muddy looking as a whole.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 08, 2013, 07:22:52 PM
-The controls are awful. I don't know if my Wii Motion Plus is fucked up too, but sword-fighting is awful and Link won't balance on ropes for shit.

I didn't have too much of a problem with them. I don't think they were better than traditional controls. But I thought it was a nice unique way to play Zelda for one game.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 08, 2013, 07:22:52 PM
-Fi is annoying. I don't need to be told what to do every two minutes by the most boring side character in the series. Dowsing is useless. The game kept telling me to use dowsing to find the missing Kiwi's or whatever they're called. Guess what? I found all of them without using the dowsing system at all. Telling me to use it in the next area to find Zelda? Could she be in that giant ass temple on the other side of the map? Sure enough, I used the dowsing here and it did pinpoint at the giant temple. It seems like such an unnecessary feature.

>Navi is infamous as one of the most hated video game partners ever.
>Nintendo responds by making Fi even worse, far worse.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 08, 2013, 07:22:52 PM
-This game is ugly. I'm not trying to sound like a graphics whore here, I still love the Wind Waker's grapics, I still liked Twilight Princess', I like Sonic Colors, all standard definition games. Skyward Sword is ass-ugly. I don't know if they were trying to use an art style to give everything a pastel painting look, but faraway objects are incredibly blurry and it just looks terrible.

I actually thought it looked nice. Though most of my examples would be spoilers.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 08, 2013, 07:22:52 PM
I will power through, Talon. I didn't spend $50 to not play this game.  :lol: But the further I play this game, the more I'm remembering why I put it down in the first place.  Which is disheartening. I was super excited for this back in 2011.

That's fair. I understand how it can be a bit underwhelming. :P

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 08, 2013, 07:22:52 PM
Music's still baller, though.  :thinkin:

I loved the soundtrack. But the other 3D game's soundtracks were better.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 08, 2013, 07:10:44 PM
I honestly didn't enjoy it because it had way too many corridors. I might give it another go one day but it sort of showed that I'm not the biggest fan of 3D Zelda outside of certain games.

Having too many corridors certainly doesn't sound like an archetype of 3D Zelda games to me. Hell, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and The Wind Waker are full of wide and open environments that are very cleverly designed. It may just be that game that's at fault.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 08, 2013, 07:36:04 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 08, 2013, 07:10:44 PM
I honestly didn't enjoy it because it had way too many corridors. I might give it another go one day but it sort of showed that I'm not the biggest fan of 3D Zelda outside of certain games.

Having too many corridors certainly doesn't sound like an archetype of 3D Zelda games to me. Hell, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and The Wind Waker are full of wide and open environments that are very cleverly designed. It may just be that game that's at fault.

Well, it was basically the OoT formula with more tutorials and in corridors. The corridors just made it worse because there was less to do.

Honestly, I might have actually enjoyed it if I hadn't already played so many better Zelda games that had less restrictions.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 08, 2013, 07:36:04 PM
Having too many corridors certainly doesn't sound like an archetype of 3D Zelda games to me. Hell, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and The Wind Waker are full of wide and open environments that are very cleverly designed. It may just be that game that's at fault.

Wind Waker's ocean is ginormous!

I wouldn't really call them corridors. The levels were pretty big. The main problem was that you could NEVER go off the beaten path unless you were in the sky. There was absolutely no exploration.

I actually like the art-style of Skyward Sword, but admittedly I haven't actually played the game in front of me on a TV. I've really only been limited to seeing brief gameplay videos of it on Youtube (mostly in high quality, though). So, I can't really comment on how blurry it looks or anything like that until I actually get a Wii and play the game for myself. In terms of the actual style of art, though, I think it looks fine. If I were to be honest, while I love The Wind Waker's art-style as well, I still prefer the tone and style of games like Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess to it.

My favorite Zelda artstyle might be the original's. :P

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcade-gear.com%2FGames%2FZelda%2FZelda_Art_01.jpg&hash=3b636fc9db01f2249d6719321025be8dd5b52ea1)

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 08, 2013, 07:42:22 PM
I wouldn't really call them corridors. The levels were pretty big. The main problem was that you could NEVER go off the beaten path unless you were in the sky. There was absolutely no exploration.

Well, OK, that actually DOES sound like a problem to me. I love exploration. If Skyward Sword really limits you in that regard just to keep you from getting lost, then it could really detract from the overall enjoyment-factor of the game for me. I actually "like" getting lost in Zelda games. Well, to be clear, I don't like being stuck on a puzzle or in a dungeon for too long, but I do like the overwhelming size of each new dungeon I go to, which is basically a new labyrinth for me to work my way through. Sure, you will usually get a map of the area pretty early on, but I love that initial aspect of having to explore the dungeon all over, not really knowing where I have to go right away, and then I can slowly piece together where I need to go and what I need to do. To me, that's actually the main appeal of Zelda games.

Skyward Sword feels like it wants to make for a very colorful world, almost like Oz in the Zelda universe, yet it ends up as a dark, ugly little game.

Once again, I have yet to play the game itself, but just based on what I've seen, I still really dig the art-style. Perhaps if I play the game for a few hours, it'll start to look ugly to me, though. I'll have to see.

Yeah, it looks better from a distance than in actual motion, honestly.

To be clear though, I don't really mean things like how they designed the characters or the colorful environments. That's fine. It's something you notice as you play it, Ensatsu. The further you are from an object, it gets blurrier and blurrier until it's just a mesh of color. This applies to everything. And it all has this texture to it, like it was made of felt or a pastel painting or something. Faraway things in Skyward Sword look like old PS1/N64 graphics to me, and it's incredibly distracting.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 08, 2013, 07:47:08 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 08, 2013, 07:42:22 PM
I wouldn't really call them corridors. The levels were pretty big. The main problem was that you could NEVER go off the beaten path unless you were in the sky. There was absolutely no exploration.

Well, OK, that actually DOES sound like a problem to me. I love exploration. If Skyward Sword really limits you in that regard just to keep you from getting lost, then it could really detract from the overall enjoyment-factor of the game for me. I actually "like" getting lost in Zelda games. Well, to be clear, I don't like being stuck on a puzzle or in a dungeon for too long, but I do like the overwhelming size of each new dungeon I go to, which is basically a new labyrinth for me to work my way through. Sure, you will usually get a map of the area pretty early on, but I love that initial aspect of having to explore the dungeon all over, not really knowing where I have to go right away, and then I can slowly piece together where I need to go and what I need to do. To me, that's actually the main appeal of Zelda games.

That's what I mean by corridors, the level design is basically a straight line. While Twilight Princess might not be my favorite Zelda it had a lot of wide open exploration elements. This game starts out with tutorials and small corridors and rarely gets wider than that. I had to stop playing because it felt almost like I was on-rails at times.

Oh, OK, I see how that could be a problem. I guess I was referring more to how the actual design of the world and characters looked. To me, I like that aspect of the game's look. However, the technical problems that you described would be very distracting for me, as well, especially with things blurring in and out of vision, which really puts a strain on my eyes in games that do that.

Yeah, I actually quite like the character art. I like how Faron Woods looks with the big colorful mushrooms everywhere. That stuff's still cool-looking.  :thumbup:

I think the dungeons are artistically the best parts of the game. They all look awesome, with one in particular being the standout (won't spoil, but I think it's the fourth dungeon)... That was actually a problem I had with Wind Waker. The game as a whole was beautiful, but the dungeons looked pretty bland.

Nintendo just announced exactly what I wanted.

Nintendo 3DS
Top-down Zelda
Sequel to Link To The Past
3D graphics featuring camera movement
It looks to have traditional controls

Here is the announcement (http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/04/17/new-zelda-game-announced-for-nintendo-3ds)

Here is the video (http://n4g.com/news/1235473/zelda-3ds-first-footage)

As you can imagine, I'm hyped. I've been waiting for a new top down Zelda since Minish Cap and that it's a sequel to my favorite Zelda game makes it all the more awesome.

Oh wow, that sounds awesome!  The most excited I've been for a Zelda game in a while.

Looks like this is the year to be a classic Zelda fan with the Oracle games coming to the eshop on May 30th, the Wind Waker remake coming to Wii-U and the new classic 2D Zelda coming to the 3DS this holiday.

I just downloaded the eshop trailer. The gameplay is on the top screen in wide screen and 3D and it seems the bottom screen is for tool select so it has traditional controls.

Excite!

YeeeeeEEEESSSS!!!

Finally!

Ohhhhhhhhhh snaaaaaaaaaap

I am excited!  :happytime:

Wow, that sounds great!

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fnews%2F2013%2F04%2Fnew_legend_of_zelda_title_confirmed_for_nintendo_3ds_due_late_2013%2Fattachment%2F9%2Foriginal.jpg&hash=d208b145362a088958be8ec12df3832dbfafd059)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fnews%2F2013%2F04%2Fnew_legend_of_zelda_title_confirmed_for_nintendo_3ds_due_late_2013%2Fattachment%2F8%2Foriginal.jpg&hash=140822d8076a70669ce366f25867621c344ce2a5)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fnews%2F2013%2F04%2Fnew_legend_of_zelda_title_confirmed_for_nintendo_3ds_due_late_2013%2Fattachment%2F7%2Foriginal.jpg&hash=a884e4b08a1a80a22a701d43fbd996dd4a4e1d3f)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fnews%2F2013%2F04%2Fnew_legend_of_zelda_title_confirmed_for_nintendo_3ds_due_late_2013%2Fattachment%2F10%2Foriginal.jpg&hash=53f66f1343211b48a221f2f86804612cf0be5e22)

They even used the LTTP style Link. I haven't been this pumped for a Zelda game since Wind Waker.

Link has never looked more feminine!

Quote from: Foggle on April 17, 2013, 02:03:37 PM
Link has never looked more feminine!

You won't goad me into posting that filth.  :unimpressed:

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 17, 2013, 02:18:55 PM

Quote from: Foggle on April 17, 2013, 02:03:37 PM
Link has never looked more feminine!

You won't goad me into posting that filth.  :unimpressed:

:lol: No, but seriously, it looks great! I'm excited.

The graphics look a bit weird, but I'm glad they are making a new top down Zelda. Overall, looking good.

There's a part of me that wants this to take place after he went to Holodrum, Labrynna and Koholint Island. You know, like he finally returns to Hyrule and finds there's trouble that's been going on while he's been gone.

Plus, we need closure on that Link's Awakening ending. Did the Windfish help him get back or just leave him stranded in the ocean?

Found out on FAN and rushed over here because I knew a certain someone would be excited!  8) I love the 3D Zeldas, but come on! It's Link to the fricken Past!  :worship:

There is simply no image or gif that could possibly be appropriate enough for this. This is awesome beyond words. This, as well as the Ducktales remake, this is an awesome year for classic games.

A Link To The Past
Oracle Of Seasons/Ages
Link's Awakening

That's the official order which makes me think that Link's Awakening was him coming back from Holodrum/Labrynna (whichever one you played first) and getting shipwrecked. I would assume this new game is him either finally getting back home or just before he sets out for Holodrum/Labrynna. Putting it after Link's Awakening would tie off the era quite nicely.

I wouldn't mind a callback to Zelda II to make it about preventing Ganon's resurrection or a bridge to how the world ended up like Zelda I. Either way, this is my favorite Link timeline so whatever they do is fine to me.

Looking back through the thread, this seems like the game the majority of us were hoping for since Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword came out. Here's hoping EAD can handle it since the last traditional 2D Zelda they made was Link's Awakening.

Also here's my favorite old post:

Quote from: talonmalon333 on July 10, 2012, 11:47:58 AM
So what are everyone's current opinions about Skyward Sword? Am I still the only one who likes it? .3.

lol.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 17, 2013, 07:15:21 PM

Also here's my favorite old post:

Quote from: talonmalon333 on July 10, 2012, 11:47:58 AM
So what are everyone's current opinions about Skyward Sword? Am I still the only one who likes it? .3.

lol.

:D I still retain the belief that it was a good game, but a bad Zelda game.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 17, 2013, 06:22:10 PM
There's a part of me that wants this to take place after he went to Holodrum, Labrynna and Koholint Island. You know, like he finally returns to Hyrule and finds there's trouble that's been going on while he's been gone.

Plus, we need closure on that Link's Awakening ending. Did the Windfish help him get back or just leave him stranded in the ocean?

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 17, 2013, 06:37:06 PM
A Link To The Past
Oracle Of Seasons/Ages
Link's Awakening

That's the official order which makes me think that Link's Awakening was him coming back from Holodrum/Labrynna (whichever one you played first) and getting shipwrecked. I would assume this new game is him either finally getting back home or just before he sets out for Holodrum/Labrynna. Putting it after Link's Awakening would tie off the era quite nicely.

I wouldn't mind a callback to Zelda II to make it about preventing Ganon's resurrection or a bridge to how the world ended up like Zelda I. Either way, this is my favorite Link timeline so whatever they do is fine to me.

Might also be a prequel to ALttP. The Link in this game looks younger than the ALttP one, so he could either be younger, or a different Link altogether. Guess we'll see... They might even put it in one of the other continuities separate from ALttP. After all, Four Swords Adventures was also very similar to ALttP, but was in a different timeline. I wouldn't be surprised if they never plan on touching that timeline with the classic games.

... Or maybe in a massive "screw the timeline" moment, Nintendo will retcon the 2D games onto one of the other timelines, and will use this game to bridge the gap. :awesome:

Oh apparently there's a 2 in the official title, so I doubt it's a prequel.

Bill Trinen says:

Quote"There is a '2' in the Japanese title. So, yeah, I think as I described today, it's an all-new game, it is an all-new story. From a story perspective there are connections, so it does fall after A Link to the Past. And it's set in the same world, but introduces that new gameplay mechanic. So, yeah, I guess by that definition ..."

Edit:

Also-

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gonintendo.com%2Fcontent%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F2013_4%2Fxocr1cc__large.png&hash=b32b41482230b58f536432a053d1b9a3fe731dc6)

13 Minute gameplay demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE_xMCt9VLw&feature=share&list=UUbIh1VbkLpsu-fRi23q6HFA)

The bottom screen is a map and quick select for items. Classic Zelda is back!  8)

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 17, 2013, 07:22:26 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 17, 2013, 07:15:21 PM

Also here's my favorite old post:

Quote from: talonmalon333 on July 10, 2012, 11:47:58 AM
So what are everyone's current opinions about Skyward Sword? Am I still the only one who likes it? .3.

lol.

:D I still retain the belief that it was a good game, but a bad Zelda game.

I know I seem to be in a bumping mood today, but I do think this was a legit point. Does everyone here who played Skyward Sword still dislike it at this point? I just don't think it comes anywhere near being bad.

It seems that on this site, I'm the only one with a "that's cool" attitude about this upcoming game.

To me, the coolest part about it is the fact that top down Zelda is back (which is of course a great thing). But the game itself hasn't left me really excited so far.

All they showed is a demo dungeon and some random map gameplay in an announcement trailer.

Being that the traditional Zelda games Nintendo made themselves are The Legend Of Zelda (NES), A Link to The Past, and Link's Awakening, I don't have much reason to not be excited. Unless you aren't a fan of top down Zelda I'm not sure why you wouldn't be excited. Especially since we haven't gotten one of these since the Game Boy Advance two generations ago.

I'm just going off the fact that it's traditional Zelda being made by Nintendo's Zelda team which hasn't happened in almost 20 years. It might help the next 3D Zelda to revisit pre-OoT elements, as well. It can only help, really.

So personally I'm not seeing a downside.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 04:30:48 PM
I'm just going off the fact that it's traditional Zelda being made by Nintendo's Zelda team which hasn't happened in almost 20 years.

Well, uh, exactly. They haven't made one in 20 years. Maybe he's worried they might have lost their touch or the team has completely changed for the worse?

Not that I feel that way, myself.

Quote from: Foggle on April 22, 2013, 04:39:14 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 04:30:48 PM
I'm just going off the fact that it's traditional Zelda being made by Nintendo's Zelda team which hasn't happened in almost 20 years.

Well, uh, exactly. They haven't made one in 20 years. Maybe he's worried they might have lost their touch or the team has completely changed for the worse?

Not that I feel that way, myself.

I dunno, of all the things to complain about with Nintendo worrying that they can't make a good game is pretty low on my worry list. It's being directed by Eiji Aonuma who is fairly well acquainted with the style of gameplay so I'm not really concerned.

I would have been more worried about Capcom making the Oracle games back in the day, but look how that turned out!  ;)

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 04:30:48 PM
All they showed is a demo dungeon and some random map gameplay in an announcement trailer.

Being that the traditional Zelda games Nintendo made themselves are The Legend Of Zelda (NES), A Link to The Past, and Link's Awakening, I don't have much reason to not be excited. Unless you aren't a fan of top down Zelda I'm not sure why you wouldn't be excited. Especially since we haven't gotten one of these since the Game Boy Advance two generations ago.

I'm just going off the fact that it's traditional Zelda being made by Nintendo's Zelda team which hasn't happened in almost 20 years. It might help the next 3D Zelda to revisit pre-OoT elements, as well. It can only help, really.

So personally I'm not seeing a downside.

I'm not saying it won't be great, and I'm not saying I find there to be a downside. I just haven't seen enough to get as excited as many other people. Having top down classic Zelda back is a great thing, though (the PH and ST touch screen style can burn in hell for the rest of eternity and beyond). The actual content just hasn't "wowed" me though.

To be fair though....its a top-down Zelda game. They are marvelously fun to play, but not exactly the most exciting games to watch (they aren't exactly about flash or anything like that). And besides, we've only seen 10+ minutes worth of footage. That's hardly enough to conclude whether there is or isn't enough to a game to get excited about it or not. To put things into perspective, if I were to show up a sample of gameplay from A Link to the Past to someone who never played it before, it probably wouldn't look like anything special until they actually played the game themselves in full. Zelda games lend themselves well to proper play-throughs and are fun when you play them from start to finish. They don't try to do anything too flashy or gimmicky, though, so its not like watching 10+ minutes worth of gameplay can fairly be expected to do anything for anyone other than to let them know what the core mechanics will be like.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 22, 2013, 05:10:11 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 04:30:48 PM
All they showed is a demo dungeon and some random map gameplay in an announcement trailer.

Being that the traditional Zelda games Nintendo made themselves are The Legend Of Zelda (NES), A Link to The Past, and Link's Awakening, I don't have much reason to not be excited. Unless you aren't a fan of top down Zelda I'm not sure why you wouldn't be excited. Especially since we haven't gotten one of these since the Game Boy Advance two generations ago.

I'm just going off the fact that it's traditional Zelda being made by Nintendo's Zelda team which hasn't happened in almost 20 years. It might help the next 3D Zelda to revisit pre-OoT elements, as well. It can only help, really.

So personally I'm not seeing a downside.

I'm not saying it won't be great, and I'm not saying I find there to be a downside. I just haven't seen enough to get as excited as many other people. Having top down classic Zelda back is a great thing, though (the PH and ST touch screen style can burn in hell for the rest of eternity and beyond). The actual content just hasn't "wowed" me though.

Oh, well that's understandable. The teaser was enough for me, but then again it's what I wanted so that's expected. Sort of like the Wind Waker HD release, we might as well wait for more footage.

Maybe Skyward Sword had caused me to worry about whatever Zelda was going to be announced next, regardless of the style. :sweat:

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 22, 2013, 06:14:44 PM
Maybe Skyward Sword had caused me to worry about whatever Zelda was going to be announced next, regardless of the style. :sweat:

"Announcing The Legend Of Zelda: Jar Of Voices. Take Link off into an adventure in the ancient tunnels of Hyrule and use a microphone peripheral to tell him what to do! No buttons at all!"

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 22, 2013, 06:28:55 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 22, 2013, 06:14:44 PM
Maybe Skyward Sword had caused me to worry about whatever Zelda was going to be announced next, regardless of the style. :sweat:

"Announcing The Legend Of Zelda: Jar Of Voices. Take Link off into an adventure in the ancient tunnels of Hyrule and use a microphone peripheral to tell him what to do! No buttons at all!"

See, this would have worried me.

Spoiler

I was expecting this on the DS after Spirit Tracks

[close]

Well, we had trains and boats, so I was expecting planes next.  :P

Though I suppose the Loftwing counts.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 22, 2013, 06:28:55 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 22, 2013, 06:14:44 PM
Maybe Skyward Sword had caused me to worry about whatever Zelda was going to be announced next, regardless of the style. :sweat:

"Announcing The Legend Of Zelda: Jar Of Voices. Take Link off into an adventure in the ancient tunnels of Hyrule and use a microphone peripheral to tell him what to do! No buttons at all!"

I'm not sure if that's gimmicky enough. >_<

Speaking of style, what graphical style do you guys think Zelda Wii U should, and will, have?

It will look like OoT in HD. That's my guess.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 07:57:31 PM
It will look like OoT in HD. That's my guess.

And that's the way it should be, because OoT is the best Zelda game ever and has the best Zelda art-style ever. This is of course complete fact, and anyone who disagrees with it is automatically wrong because opinions are for losers. :>

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 22, 2013, 08:41:39 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 07:57:31 PM
It will look like OoT in HD. That's my guess.

And that's the way it should be, because OoT is the best Zelda game ever and has the best Zelda art-style ever. This is of course complete fact, and anyone who disagrees with it is automatically wrong because opinions are for losers. :>

I was just saying it because that was what the Wii-U demo looked like.  :??:

But seriously, they need to hook a lot of people this time so they can't afford to go with a Wind Waker-style surprise or a strange Skyward Sword-style 'why bother' that might scare people off before they even look at it. For a 3D Zelda, OoT-style art is the safest bet.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 22, 2013, 08:41:39 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 07:57:31 PM
It will look like OoT in HD. That's my guess.

And that's the way it should be, because OoT is the best Zelda game ever and has the best Zelda art-style ever. This is of course complete fact, and anyone who disagrees with it is automatically wrong because opinions are for losers. :>

... I actually kind of agree with that opinion. >_<

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 08:47:07 PM

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 22, 2013, 08:41:39 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 07:57:31 PM
It will look like OoT in HD. That's my guess.

And that's the way it should be, because OoT is the best Zelda game ever and has the best Zelda art-style ever. This is of course complete fact, and anyone who disagrees with it is automatically wrong because opinions are for losers. :>

I was just saying it because that was what the Wii-U demo looked like.  :??:

But seriously, they need to hook a lot of people this time so they can't afford to go with a Wind Waker-style surprise or a strange Skyward Sword-style 'why bother' that might scare people off before they even look at it. For a 3D Zelda, OoT-style art is the safest bet.

Or the TP look. The Zelda Wii U tech demo, which was an upgraded version of its visuals, was beautiful. And it drew a lot of attention. I'm sure it would help bring in more people in a full game. In fact, I think it was more talked about than Skyward Sword at that E3 (this was before it was released)

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwii.mmgn.com%2FLib%2FImages%2FNews%2FNormal%2FRetro-Studios-could-work-on-Zelda-Miyamoto-1079853.jpg&hash=617ec05e0ab5832b29f973d0a2be484928526ff2)

Yeah, that. I think that will be the art style they use.

My prediction is that, first of all, and being that they are already making a remake of Wind Waker, they won't use that game's art style. I can see them doing the TP look, or the SS look (I know they loved that art style). Course, they might also decide to do something new.

After revisiting a lot of the games, I think I prefer the "weirder" entries for the most part. Like, I enjoy Ocarina of Time and Link to the Past, but I vastly prefer Wind Waker, Link's Awakening, Majora's Mask, the Oracles, etc.

Quote from: Foggle on April 22, 2013, 09:49:51 PM
After revisiting a lot of the games, I think I prefer the "weirder" entries for the most part. Like, I enjoy Ocarina of Time and Link to the Past, but I vastly prefer Wind Waker, Link's Awakening, Majora's Mask, the Oracles, etc.

How are the Oracle games the least bit weird? They are straight up classic-style 2D Zelda games, rather than being a bit too linear like Link's Awakening, or having the strange sailing gimmick of The Wind Waker, or the time-limit of Majora's Mask.

And I think it's just become popular opinion to undersell Ocarina of Time these days just because it was so popular in its day and for several years thereafter. As someone who loves The Wind Waker (its also one of my favorite games of all-time), I can say that I still find Ocarina of Time to have vastly superior level design to it (and I mean in regard to the dungeons, not taking the sailing bits into account). Majora's Mask has equally great level design to OoT, IMO, but what holds it back for me is the 3-day time-limit gimmick, which I personally hate. If it weren't for the fact that I was constantly under a time-limit to complete each dungeon, I could have honestly seen MM as my favorite, but that one gimmick really just goes against a fundamental aspect of what I like in gaming, and that's being able to take my time with things (and yes, I know how to slow-down time, but I still hate the concept of constantly being on a time-limit).

Maybe "weird" isn't the right word. Whatever.

Also, while I like OoT, I just don't enjoy it as much as other people do. Same with LttP. If I was underselling them, I'd say they were overrated, but I'm not. They just don't really do it for me like the others I listed do.

That's fine. Its still a fact that OoT is the best Zelda game ever, though. :sly:

I do probably think Ocarina of Time is the best in the series. Everything, just, fell into place perfectly with the gameplay, level design, story, and pacing. Wind Waker, for example, is a great game but I think it doesn't feel as well put together, if that makes sense. The pacing doesn't feel as right.

I love the Wind Waker, but if I had to say its one weakness for me, its definitely the pacing. At times its fine, but there are parts of the game that drag (ironically, though, I didn't mind the Triforce hunt, of all things). Also, the level design felt like it was a bit more simplistic than in OoT and MM. The puzzles in general just felt a bit too easy for a Zelda game, perhaps to cater to the more casual gamers of the time. That said, the game was still a ton of fun on the whole and it always kept me interested enough to want to come back for more.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 22, 2013, 10:43:58 PM
I love the Wind Waker, but if I had to say its one weakness for me, its definitely the pacing. At times its fine, but there are parts of the game that drag (ironically, though, I didn't mind the Triforce hunt, of all things). Also, the level design felt like it was a bit more simplistic than in OoT and MM. The puzzles in general just felt a bit too easy for a Zelda game, perhaps to cater to the more casual gamers of the time. That said, the game was still a ton of fun on the whole and it always kept me interested enough to want to come back for more.

I agree with all that. Wind Waker does drag a little bit at points. With OoT, on the other hand, there was never a dull moment. I really can't think of any flaws in that game, honestly. Same with MM, at least to me.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 22, 2013, 11:00:23 PM

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 22, 2013, 10:43:58 PM
I love the Wind Waker, but if I had to say its one weakness for me, its definitely the pacing. At times its fine, but there are parts of the game that drag (ironically, though, I didn't mind the Triforce hunt, of all things). Also, the level design felt like it was a bit more simplistic than in OoT and MM. The puzzles in general just felt a bit too easy for a Zelda game, perhaps to cater to the more casual gamers of the time. That said, the game was still a ton of fun on the whole and it always kept me interested enough to want to come back for more.

I agree with all that. Wind Waker does drag a little bit at points. With OoT, on the other hand, there was never a dull moment. I really can't think of any flaws in that game, honestly. Same with MM, at least to me.

Jabu Jabu's Belly.

Spoiler

I bet you were expecting me to say the Water Temple! But I actually like that one.

[close]

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 11:02:37 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 22, 2013, 11:00:23 PM

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on April 22, 2013, 10:43:58 PM
I love the Wind Waker, but if I had to say its one weakness for me, its definitely the pacing. At times its fine, but there are parts of the game that drag (ironically, though, I didn't mind the Triforce hunt, of all things). Also, the level design felt like it was a bit more simplistic than in OoT and MM. The puzzles in general just felt a bit too easy for a Zelda game, perhaps to cater to the more casual gamers of the time. That said, the game was still a ton of fun on the whole and it always kept me interested enough to want to come back for more.

I agree with all that. Wind Waker does drag a little bit at points. With OoT, on the other hand, there was never a dull moment. I really can't think of any flaws in that game, honestly. Same with MM, at least to me.

Jabu Jabu's Belly.

Spoiler

I bet you were expecting me to say the Water Temple! But I actually like that one.

[close]

I like Jabu Jabu's Belly as well.

:humhumhum:

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 22, 2013, 11:02:37 PM
Jabu Jabu's Belly.

Preposterous.

Barinade > everything

Ya'll probably know this, but I was the odd kid who preferred Majora to Ocarina back in the day.

I haven't played either one in ages, but based on my memory, that opinion might stay the same.

I like Majora's Mask better now that I'm older, but I was one of the typical Ocarina kids growing up.

...of course, that isn't to say that I didn't like Majora's Mask during my very first playthrough (at like 8-9 years old); just that I've come to appreciate it far more now than I did then. At that age, things like depth (and I still say this game has more depth than any Zelda game ever) and character development didn't mean a whole lot to me; I just wanted something to occupy my one-track mind.

MM probably does have the best story in the series. But in my opinion, WW and TP give it a run for its money.

Ocarina of Time's story is still nothing to scoff at. The game did a great job in truly expanding the Zelda mythos of the Zelda franchise from what was already present in the classic 2D games before it. Majora's Mask and all future Zelda games owe a lot to it for many of the core fundamentals it helped set up with the mythology Hyrule and the entire Zelda Universe in general. Of course, A Link to the Past deserves just as much credit, as it expanded things a lot from the NES games, itself. Still, OoT, to me, has a very basic and simplistic yet very entertaining to follow story.

Majora's Mask has more "character depth" with its villain, the Skull Kid, which is easily the highlight of the game's story for me. That said, you all know that I'm a gameplay over story sort of guy, and while the general gameplay in MM is excellent, like I said, that 3-day time-limit REALLY bothered me a lot. Apparently nobody else seemed to care about it, though, but I'm just kind of weird that way, I guess.

The 3-Day limit bothered me a lot more when I was younger.

Looking at it now, it's a nice twist, and gives the game a bit of an interesting challenge. Still, you could always just slow down the flow of time with one of the "secret" ocarina songs, so it's not something that's hard to get around.

Back in the late 90s, Jabu Jabu's Belly actually totally turned me off of the game, and Majora's time-limit kept me away from that as well.

Of course, my opinions of both have changed. I appreciate Ocarina for what it is, but it's just kind of "there" for me. I love Majora though. The melancholy tone, the epic number of sidequests, and all the crazy fan theories more than make up for the time limit and the few dungeons. I mean, I loathe time limits in games, but with MM I feel it melds well into what's going on and enhances the mood.

I too liked OoT's simple story. It also has some of the most memorable game twists ever (Sheik ---> Zelda, Link pulling the Master Sword and becoming an adult leading to Ganon taking over the world, etc.). I also liked Skyward Sword's story, mainly cause of the story arc of Link and Zelda.

But after the three games I mentioned earlier (MM, WW, and TP), I think my favorite Zelda story might be Link's Awakening. Simple but also emotional. The whole dream twist just worked so well.

Quote from: Kiddington on April 23, 2013, 12:47:25 AM
The 3-Day limit bothered me a lot more when I was younger.

Looking at it now, it's a nice twist, and gives the game a bit of an interesting challenge. Still, you could always just slow down the flow of time with one of the "secret" ocarina songs, so it's not something that's hard to get around.

I like the twist itself, but I don't like the execution. And as I've stated before, I'm well aware that you could slow down time. I still hate the twist because even when you did slow down time, there was still a very clear limit on how much time you had to complete a given temple. You may say that it was more than enough time, but for me I suck at certain puzzles and hate to use guides, so yes, I did run out of times at least a few times during the game and had to save the game and reset time, which I hate because I lose all of my non-essential items and pocket-money in the process (yet for some reason all of your important items and keys stay with you), which I just thought was a completely stupid concept, personally. There are the owl statues, but you could only use each of those once at a time, and if you started up a new save, you couldn't use them directly again. For me, that really made things unnecessarily frustrating at times.

On the whole, I still think its a brilliant game. Its just that the gimmick really stopped it from being my favorite Zelda game, personally.

I think the only instance in which the time limit really killed me was in the Great Bay Temple (which is just a mess of mazes and switches). I had to start over more than a few times on that one (the boss was no cakewalk, either). Otherwise, with time slowed, it was usually more than enough.

That's just me, though. I could see where most people would have trouble, especially there and Stone Tower Temple.

I just get a much greater sense of adventure from the games I listed. They might not be "better", but they do more for the pleasure center of my brain. Stuff like that just makes me really excited and happy, even today. That unexplainable feeling is also why I like Bayonetta more than Devil May Cry 3, Resident Evil 4 more than its predecessors and sequels, Mass Effect 2 more than the games it's sandwiched between, etc.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 23, 2013, 12:54:04 AM
I appreciate Ocarina for what it is, but it's just kind of "there" for me. I love Majora though. The melancholy tone, the epic number of sidequests, and all the crazy fan theories more than make up for the time limit and the few dungeons. I mean, I loathe time limits in games, but with MM I feel it melds well into what's going on and enhances the mood.

Yes, this is exactly my opinion...!

Quote from: Foggle on April 23, 2013, 07:53:31 AM
I just get a much greater sense of adventure from the games I listed. They might not be "better", but they do more for the pleasure center of my brain.

Even though I succumb to saying stuff like that all the time, there's no such thing as any of these games being "better" than one another as if its a fact. They are all high quality titles to the point where its completely subjective as to which ones are your favorites. So, on that end, nobody's really questioning why those games are you favorites (and I like them a ton myself, as well, ESPECIALLY the Oracle games). :thumbup:

On that note, though, its precisely the reason that you mentioned that I prefer OoT to any other Zelda game that I've played. I LOVE adventure, and oddly enough, I feel THAT is the Zelda game that embodies the spirit of adventure more than any other. At least to me, anyways.

QuoteStuff like that just makes me really excited and happy, even today. That unexplainable feeling is also why I like Bayonetta more than Devil May Cry 3, Resident Evil 4 more than its predecessors and sequels, Mass Effect 2 more than the games it's sandwiched between, etc.

Its also the reason I still think that Ninja Gaiden Black is by far the best hack n' slash game that I have ever played. Bayonetta's combat system is more robust (as are DMC3 and 4's combat systems), but NGB feels more dynamic to me on the whole, both in terms of its level design (which is more Zelda-esque to a certain degree, ironically) and the overall feeling of fighting in that game, which is more about predicting the motions of he enemy AI and reacting to that as well as using some weapon strategy rather than in improving your skills with combos and pure offense. Needless to say, though, I think these are all some of the best hack n' slash games of all time, so I can see why many people would prefer the other games over NG. I'm just such a huge fan of good hack n' slash games to the point where I don't really care too much which ones are the best because any one of the best ones can utterly suck me in. :)

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 23, 2013, 12:54:04 AM
Yes, this is exactly my opinion...!

If we're going for the "just kind of there" Zelda game, that's exactly how I feel about Link's Awakening, which is probably the most unremarkable Zelda game that I've ever played. Not bad, mind you, and quite enjoyable in its own right, but compared to other 2D Zelda games (and even the 3D ones, for that matter)....I guess I just never really found it to be all that memorable. That's just me, though.

Oh, and regardless of whether you care for Ocarina of Time on the whole as a game or not, I'm just going to go on record as saying that I personally find it to have the best and most memorable music out of any of the 3D Zelda games. On that note, I will shut my eyes and ears to any other opinions like an obnoxious fanboy to the very end. I just love the fuck out of OoT's soundtrack that much, and I mean pretty much all of it.

Every 3D Zelda game has a fantastic soundtrack, with Skyward Sword being the exception.......... again. .3.

Once again, being that I haven't played the game, I haven't heard any of the game's music other than its main theme (which itself is basically just OoT's theme in reverse....no, literally, that's exactly what it is), so I can't give an opinion on it until I play the game for myself. The same goes for Twilight Princess, of course.

Trying to decide whether OOT or MM is better is like trying to decide if you like the Sopranos more than the Wire or Mad Men over Breaking Bad.

Whichever way you go, everyone wins.

I agree that OoT has the best soundtrack, actually. ;)

Quote from: Avaitor on April 23, 2013, 12:37:01 PM
Trying to decide whether OOT or MM is better is like trying to decide if you like the Sopranos more than the Wire or Mad Men over Breaking Bad.

Whichever way you go, everyone wins.

bscly

For soundtracks, I'd go:

TP >/= WW > MM > OoT > SS

All of them have excellent soundtracks though, except SS (which had a great soundtrack, but not nearly on the level of the other four).

OoT > MM > WW

Like I said, I can't rank TP or SS because I'm not familiar with those game's soundtracks.

Girahim's theme (and Levias) is where it's at. I actually did like what I was hearing of Faron Woods while playing it, but it didn't stick.

A Link To The Past has the best soundtrack in my opinion. It just hits every note perfectly.

#1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPG2yDvD_08)
#2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgQaK7TGjX4)
#3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVWpFXtHhPc)
#4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yoXzfBHn4Y)
#5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uR7doemZD0)

I do like the atmosphere the best for being as bright as Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker and being as dark as Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess. The Dark World theme is still my favorite Zelda theme.

My favorite Zelda song is the credits theme to TP. That's just really emotional. Heck, that's basically why TP has my favorite soundtrack in the series. It's the most emotional overall. WW has my 2nd favorite soundtrack cause it's the most versatile. With things like the Dragon Roost song, there is just so much variety to that soundtrack. I also love the OoT and MM soundtracks, but in my opinion they are held back a bit by the console's sound quality. Just a little bit, though.

I'd rate the soundtracks as such:

OoT > ALttP > TP > MM > WW

I absolutely love OoT's soundtrack, as I'm sure you're well aware (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCJXvrM0PG8). The ambiance is just beautiful in almost every situation. ALttP is just a great soundtrack all around (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoLT24KcEIY), TP is more emotional but it works really well (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q430UUQs17s), and MM's fits the dark tone of the series of a tee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOk0I-1K_bo). I hate to push WW all the way to the back of line like that, because it has some really great stuff as well. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXGGvsHq6iA)

Honestly, there isn't a bad soundtrack to be had in this bunch; it's basically just a ranking of absolute favorite to slightly less favorite. The only one I can't comment on is SS, as I haven't played it yet, buuuuut... it sounds like I'm really not missing much.  :humhumhum:

Here's an odd tangent. I hope they never put a game in the timeline between OoT and ALTTP. I really like the build up of having no hero for such a long time that when Link appears just about no one remembers there was ever a hero and it makes his constant victories surprise even Ganon by the end. It's kind of silly to mention, but it's really the only Zelda game like that. Every other one has an inkling of knowledge about a previous hero except ALTTP (they only talk about long ago wars) where an unknown hero comes out of nowhere. He not only stops the wizard, but ends up saving a whole world of darkness with the odds wildly stacked against him.

That's probably why it's my favorite Zelda story.

I think ALTTP happens in the timeline where Link never became the Hero of Time, so to a good majority of Hyrule there never was a hero at all.

The only thing they can really explore in those games is the Imprisoning War.

Quote from: Rynnec on April 23, 2013, 07:57:20 PM
I think ALTTP happens in the timeline where Link never became the Hero of Time, so to a good majority of Hyrule there never was a hero at all.

The only thing they can really explore in those games is the Imprisoning War.

You're right. The Sealing War talked about in the ALTTP opening was fought by the sages and knights to seal Ganon away in the Dark World which held until ALTTP and Link arrived to stop him. Basically after OoT and "the hero fails" the Sealing War ended with Ganon trapped in the Dark World so there was no Ganon for Link to fight until ALTTP.

Even if they picked another villain for Link to fight in that timeline it wouldn't work because Ganon is literally sitting over there looming over the world in wait.

It's why I'm glad the 3DS game isn't a prequel because it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. Though I would hope it's post-Link's Awakening just so it can bookend that era.

It's kind of funny that in a way, but looking at the entire timeline, the thing that keeps happening to Ganon (getting defeated, only to come back somewhere down the line) seems to apply to Link too on the Decline timeline. He's ultimately killed by Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time, but he comes back in A Link To The Past (not the same Link of course, but you know what I mean.) Seems like no matter which piece of the puzzle you remove, history will just replace it somewhere down the line, so no side can ever truly achieve a permanent victory. I have no doubt that a new Ganondorf would eventually be born in the Wind Waker timeline, if they choose to continue it.

Spirit Tracks has one of the better soundtracks in the series. Don't care what the haters say. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W_bFLwB0WY

To be fair, after ALTTP in that timeline Ganon only comes back through necromancy (and only once is he not a mindless beast or a vision) and Ganondorf and Aganhim (I can never spell that right) never reappear. Maybe the reason they never followed up on Zelda 2 is because that's actually the end?  :D

Who knows?

I always thought it would be interesting if there was some spin-off playing as other characters avenging the Hero of Time during the Imprisoning War. :P

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 23, 2013, 08:18:56 PM
Maybe the reason they never followed up on Zelda 2 is because that's actually the end?  :D

Zelda 2 always seemed to have a finality fairy tale ending to me. "Link wakes up the princess from her slumber, Ganon's resurrection is prevented, Hyrule is restored, and they all live happily ever after" sort of thing.

By the time Zelda 2 comes around, so much time has passed since Skyward Sword (for crying out loud, the "first" Princess Zelda that Link's trying to wake up was born some time after ALttP), that the Goddesses and Hylia appear to have been completely forgotten and Hyrule is somehow practicing Christianity.  :P Also interesting is that I think Hyrule Historia mentions that by the first Legend Of Zelda, Ganon's become such a mindless beast that he doesn't even remember ever being Ganondorf.

I love the mythos so much. <3

Funny thing about Ganon returning in the Wind Waker Universe is that there were a lot of theories back in the day that Vaati would be the one to revive Ganon (mostly based on Ganon's final words). I'd really like that if it actually happened.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 23, 2013, 08:27:32 PM
By the time Zelda 2 comes around, so much time has passed since Skyward Sword (for crying out loud, the "first" Princess Zelda that Link's trying to wake up was born some time after ALttP), that the Goddesses and Hylia appear to have been completely forgotten and Hyrule is somehow practicing Christianity.  :P Also interesting is that I think Hyrule Historia mentions that by the first Legend Of Zelda, Ganon's become such a mindless beast that he doesn't even remember ever being Ganondorf.

I love the mythos so much. <3

That's what I love about the split timeline, all the different outcomes and possibilities.

After ALTTP, we're left with three Ganon resurrections.

1. Oracles - It's literally a mindless beast and Twinrova failed.
2. Link's Awakening - It's a nightmare so it's not him, just a vision.
3. Legend Of Zelda - Properly resurrected (all those attempts must have finally lead to perfection) only he seems degraded from before. Plus I think Link actually purifies the ashes (this I can't remember right) so that prevents him from coming back and Zelda 2 seems pretty intent on wiping whatever spell they kept trying to use to bring Ganon back from existence.

Otherwise I don't really see why they never followed after Zelda 2 unless that really is the end of that timeline as far as the battle is concerned.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 23, 2013, 08:27:32 PMAlso interesting is that I think Hyrule Historia mentions that by the first Legend Of Zelda, Ganon's become such a mindless beast that he doesn't even remember ever being Ganondorf.

I think that idea is just something that lends itself well to such an early game with little dialogue, that just so happens to fall near the end of the timeline. It's a feeling I personally had gotten from Zelda I Ganon for years.

As a whole though, I think the mythos are kind of a mess. :P

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 23, 2013, 08:36:28 PM

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 23, 2013, 08:27:32 PMAlso interesting is that I think Hyrule Historia mentions that by the first Legend Of Zelda, Ganon's become such a mindless beast that he doesn't even remember ever being Ganondorf.

I think that idea is just something that lends itself well to such an early game with little dialogue, that just so happens to fall near the end of the timeline. It's a feeling I personally had gotten from Zelda I Ganon for years.

As a whole though, I think the mythos are kind of a mess. :P

Well, Nintendo has always had a Stephen King-style when it comes to the Zelda series: they focus on gameplay first, then try to jam a story in there and hope it makes sense and can fit in somewhere in the overall universe of the franchise. Not that I have a problem with that. If I was a huge story > gameplay dude, then Other M wouldn't be anywhere near my list of favourite games.

Quote from: RacattackForce on April 24, 2013, 10:59:33 AM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 23, 2013, 08:36:28 PM

Quote from: Nel_Annette on April 23, 2013, 08:27:32 PMAlso interesting is that I think Hyrule Historia mentions that by the first Legend Of Zelda, Ganon's become such a mindless beast that he doesn't even remember ever being Ganondorf.

I think that idea is just something that lends itself well to such an early game with little dialogue, that just so happens to fall near the end of the timeline. It's a feeling I personally had gotten from Zelda I Ganon for years.

As a whole though, I think the mythos are kind of a mess. :P

Well, Nintendo has always had a Stephen King-style when it comes to the Zelda series: they focus on gameplay first, then try to jam a story in there and hope it makes sense and can fit in somewhere in the overall universe of the franchise. 

Stephen King is a video game developer? :joy:

Quote from: RacattackForce on April 24, 2013, 10:59:33 AM
Well, Nintendo has always had a Stephen King-style when it comes to the Zelda series: they focus on gameplay first, then try to jam a story in there and hope it makes sense and can fit in somewhere in the overall universe of the franchise. Not that I have a problem with that. If I was a huge story > gameplay dude, then Other M wouldn't be anywhere near my list of favourite games.

Personally, that's the way I like it. That's not to say that I don't respect a great story and expert narrative, because I totally do. Its just that, I'm a dude who's into gaming for the sake of....well, gaming. Most of my favorite games of all-time have mediocre to downright non-existent stories, but the one thing that they have in common is excellent gameplay, through and through. That's probably why I find that in this day and age, most Nintendo games appeal to me way more than most modern games on the XBOX360 and PS3, since a lot of those games don't seem to put quite as much focus as I'd like in the aspects of gaming that I particularly care about.

Since we're on the topic of story, I think the reason Majora's Mask has my favorite Zelda story is because I feel as if there's more to it than just the main quest. Because in order to save everyone, you need to do more than just prevent the world from being destroyed. Since everyone's lives in that game are just screwed up, and the story means so little if you just ignore the sidequests. But when you do, you see how good some of the game's NPCs are.

That said, I really like the stories of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, too. I like the themes of Wind Waker and how it connects back to Ocarina of Time (and it's done in a meaningful way to enhance the experience), with the ending being perhaps my favorite in the series. Twilight Princess' story is really strong for reasons I won't go into, being that a number of people here still haven't played it. :P

I'd also like to add that I really like Skyward Sword's storyline, if only because of Link and Princess Zelda's arc. That game was her best appearance yet. And of course there's Ocarina of Time, which has a good story for the reasons stated in this thread recently.

Majora's Mask's problem is that you NEED a strategy guide or else you are totally lost. Literally so much of the game is extremely hard to figure out by yourself.

Beyond that, it's by far my favorite Zelda game. It's amazing how much they were able to accomplish on the little old N64.

ScrewAttack's 10 Worst Zelda Bosses (http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=201568)

Anyone agree?

I actually think the final boss in Oracle of Seasons is frustrating and not very fun.

The final boss in Oracle of Seasons is probably one of the weaker boss fights in the game, but its not really all that hard, to be honest, so I was never really frustrated with it, myself. I mean, the pattern is pretty easy to get down, and I even managed to beat the boss with the Wooden Sword, which takes twice as many hits to kill the final boss with than the Noble Sword.

On the flip side, here was their best boss list (http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/screwattack-top-10s/top-10-zelda-bosses) they did before.

I have to agree that the spinner boss was the highlight of Twilight Princess. It was such a shame at how wasted it was after that dungeon.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 30, 2013, 06:09:24 PM
I have to agree that the spinner boss was the highlight of Twilight Princess.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 30, 2013, 06:09:24 PM
the highlight of Twilight Princess.

:thinkin:

I don't see how that's a controversial opinion.

It is a great boss fight.

I started a new game in ALttP last night. It's a game I can keep going back to. And I always forget enough to make it a fun experience, like forgetting to get the Ice Rod before the Lanmola fight and getting my ass handed to me.

And making the golden Master Sword. Still easily one of the most satisfying things to do.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 30, 2013, 06:15:30 PM
I don't see how that's a controversial opinion.

Makes the rest of the game seem not good enough if the highlight of it all is just an item. :P

But, I kid.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 30, 2013, 06:33:48 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 30, 2013, 06:15:30 PM
I don't see how that's a controversial opinion.

Makes the rest of the game seem not good enough if the highlight of it all is just an item. :P

But, I kid.

I was mainly referring to the boss battle, but yes the spinner was a really cool item that was way underused.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 30, 2013, 06:40:22 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 30, 2013, 06:33:48 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 30, 2013, 06:15:30 PM
I don't see how that's a controversial opinion.

Makes the rest of the game seem not good enough if the highlight of it all is just an item. :P

But, I kid.

I was mainly referring to the boss battle, but yes the spinner was a really cool item that was way underused.

Ah. I can understand that, then. It was a good boss battle, though there are a few other ones in the game I like a bit more.

Going back to the Oracle games for a sec though, which one do you guys prefer. Seasons, or Ages?

I like Ages more.

When I first played them I liked Seasons more but over the years I've liked Ages more and more to the point where I think it succeeds better at everything it sets out to do. Seasons is still a great game, however.

Ages was the only one I had for a long time. I had rented Seasons a few times but I didn't buy a used copy until years later. I do think I always had more trouble fighting Veran than I did Onyx though.

I like Ages more as a whole. I just like the dungeon design and the world more, and I also think changing time brought more variety than the seasons. I also like the story more. Onox wasn't a very great villain.

I will say though, Seasons had better items. I still remember those magnetic gloves, the controllable boomerang, the flying cape, that really cool slingshot, all that good stuff.

Yeah, Roc's Cape is still my favorite item in the series. A shame it didn't carry over into Ages. I was thrilled when it appeared in Minish Cap.

The magnetic gloves should return, too. Those were awesome.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 30, 2013, 07:20:29 PM
I like Ages more.

When I first played them I liked Seasons more but over the years I've liked Ages more and more to the point where I think it succeeds better at everything it sets out to do. Seasons is still a great game, however.

I have the opposite opinion, and interestingly enough I played them in the opposite order. I played the hell out of Ages first, then got Seasons over a year later, but came to appreciate that one more over time.

Needless to say, I still love the hell out of both games, and they both still pretty much rank as my favorite 2D Zelda game of all time. I just can't fathom ranking one over the other, as to me they feel more like 1 great experience split into 2 sizable episodes.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on April 30, 2013, 09:42:34 PM
The magnetic gloves should return, too. Those were awesome.

This.

http://gengame.net/2013/05/aonuma-talks-zelda-3ds-mentions-the-dark-world/

I'm not sure how they're gonna pull that off, but honestly I was hoping it wouldn't have returned. I would have preferred them just making the over-world twice as big instead.

I guess I'll wait to see it in action first.

What do you guys think of Zelda II: The Adventure of Link?

It's 2D Zelda done wrong. The trip you have to take just to get to the final temple is unforgiving and brutal.

I think it's far less brutal and unforgiving than many NES games.

Its probably my least favorite canon Zelda game out of the ones that I have played, but I do still like the idea of a Zelda side-scroller, and wish that Nintendo would give it another honest chance. It was just executed poorly in Zelda II. Bits and pieces of Link's Awakening and the Oracle games toyed with the side-scrolling gameplay a bit, and it was definitely an improvement (though also kind of uneventful and somewhat pointless, to be honest), but I do think there would be room for a Zelda game to work in the side-scrolling format. Of course, some might say that the 2D Metroid games are basically what a good Zelda game would be like from that perspective, but I think it could still have its own flavor to it if you incorporate the towns and other unique Zelda elements into the mix.

Anyways, that's just an idea on my part.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on May 21, 2013, 05:20:46 PM
I think it's far less brutal and unforgiving than many NES games.

Other than the completely broken games, I disagree.

So, I'm half-way through Dungeon 8 in Oracle of Ages, and....I'm stumped again. Man, I'm honestly usually pretty good at puzzles, but this game really keeps throwing more curve balls towards the end. Its one of those puzzles that feels like it should have a relatively simple solution, yet I really can't seem to figure out just what I'm supposed to do, here.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on May 21, 2013, 05:25:43 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on May 21, 2013, 05:20:46 PM
I think it's far less brutal and unforgiving than many NES games.

Other than the completely broken games, I disagree.

Really? Other than the "Game Over, Go Back to the Start" issue, I don't think it's brutal at all.

But anyway, as for AoL overall, I kind of think it's underrated. I like it just as much as the original Zelda, but in its own way. I guess I just find the combat and leveling-up system to be really satisfying.

I just beat Oracle of Ages. Man, Veran was pretty damn easy. I was kind of disappointed that she really required no clever strategy to beat. Basically you could just hit her with your sword or any kinds of seeds from the seed shooter and it would do damage to her. I guess I shouldn't be complaining since it could have been worse and been a frustratingly hard boss fight, but sometimes I feel like when the final boss is a cakewalk, it makes an otherwise great game feel a bit anticlimactic. Either way, though, the overall quality of the game is still great, and this along with Seasons makes up my favorite 2D Zelda game to date.

Speaking of which, I need to move onto Seasons next, which I plan on starting tomorrow. Also, I wanted to bring up the Zelda time-line for a moment. I remember Nintendo officially saying that Oracle of Ages and Seasons could take place one after the other, and either case would work out based on which one you played first. That said, I've decided to come to my own personal conclusion and say that I think Seasons would most likely take place after Ages. First off, part of Ages by default HAS to take place before Seasons due to the time-travel gimmick in which you go hundreds of years in the past, so on that note ages can either only take place in-between the past and present of Ages or after it, and to me taking place after the whole time-travel debacle makes the most sense, as I swear having the same link go on a time-travel adventure that takes place before and after another major adventure is has to be some sort of set-up for a paradox to start up. That said, the other reason I think of Seasons as the sequel to Ages, story-wise, is because Twinrova is only revealed at the very end of Ages, whereas they are seen scheming starting from the very beginning of Seasons, and I like to interpret that as them plotting their next attack after having Veran defeated by Link in Ages. At the end of ages they indicate that they still got what they wanted out of Veran because she had disrupted the time-stream enough to still have some ensuing disorder retained even after he demise. It felt like Twinrova had some bigger goal in mind, and in Ages they acted like they had just carried out phase 1 of their plan, whereas in Seasons you tend to get the feeling that they are already in the middle of some grand master plan that had already been started (and in that regard I of course interpret Ages at the beginning). At any rate, that's the conclusion that I have come to based on my own speculation.

Having said that, I only have one gripe right now, and that's figuring out just how the fuck I'm supposed to enter that full code that I got at the end of the game to go to Holodrum. The code is 20 digits long, but the code box only ever allows me to enter in 5 digits at a time. Whenever I press the space button on letter-box screen, it just overwrites whatever the I had in the 5th slot of space. I can't believe that, of all things, a stupid password screen is giving me the biggest amount of trouble.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 22, 2013, 06:14:41 PM
I just beat Oracle of Ages. Man, Veran was pretty damn easy. I was kind of disappointed that she really required no clever strategy to beat. Basically you could just hit her with your sword or any kinds of seeds from the seed shooter and it would do damage to her. I guess I shouldn't be complaining since it could have been worse and been a frustratingly hard boss fight, but sometimes I feel like when the final boss is a cakewalk, it makes an otherwise great game feel a bit anticlimactic. Either way, though, the overall quality of the game is still great, and this along with Seasons makes up my favorite 2D Zelda game to date.

When I played Ages as a kid, I actually struggled a decent amount with Veran. But when I finally replayed it last year, I didn't have too much trouble. So I agree there. If I remember correctly, Onox is a bit harder though.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 22, 2013, 06:14:41 PM
That said, the other reason I think of Seasons as the sequel to Ages, story-wise, is because Twinrova is only revealed at the very end of Ages, whereas they are seen scheming starting from the very beginning of Seasons, and I like to interpret that as them plotting their next attack after having Veran defeated by Link in Ages. At the end of ages they indicate that they still got what they wanted out of Veran because she had disrupted the time-stream enough to still have some ensuing disorder retained even after he demise. It felt like Twinrova had some bigger goal in mind, and in Ages they acted like they had just carried out phase 1 of their plan, whereas in Seasons you tend to get the feeling that they are already in the middle of some grand master plan that had already been started (and in that regard I of course interpret Ages at the beginning).

If you play Seasons and then link to Ages, those events go differently. ;)

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 22, 2013, 06:14:41 PM
Having said that, I only have one gripe right now, and that's figuring out just how the fuck I'm supposed to enter that full code that I got at the end of the game to go to Holodrum. The code is 20 digits long, but the code box only ever allows me to enter in 5 digits at a time. Whenever I press the space button on letter-box screen, it just overwrites whatever the I had in the 5th slot of space. I can't believe that, of all things, a stupid password screen is giving me the biggest amount of trouble.

Are you trying to implement the code in the Maku Tree? I think you need to create a file in Oracle of Seasons first, and enter the password in that game upon starting a file.

Oh, I see. I guess that makes sense, but it still doesn't explain why I'm only allowed to enter 5 digits at a time.

And as for my timeline theory, I still stick by my opinion that it just makes more sense for Seasons to take place after Ages because of the whole time-travel debacle. It just makes it feel weird to know that this version of Link has a major adventure in-between another major adventure, rather than before or after it. There's that, and also the fact that if Link could travel through time, why not go back to Holodrum, travel back in time, and leave tons of useful items in a safe spot that he knows he'll come uncover in his Seasons journey which would basically allow him to clear the rest of his quest there with ease and have all the power he needs to stop Veran before she even has a chance to get away with Nayru's body into the past and disrupt the time-stream? If he had already completed his quest for Ages by the time he got to Seasons, then he couldn't really do anything at that point and it would just make sense that he would go through the standard procedure and go through every obstacle in his way while re-collecting items from scratch just to defeat Onox and restore the Temple of Seasons back to normal.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 22, 2013, 07:22:17 PM
Oh, I see. I guess that makes sense, but it still doesn't explain why I'm only allowed to enter 5 digits at a time.

Assuming you tried entering the password inside of the Maku Tree, that place is intended for smaller "secrets" (such as making certain items appear in the other game) which, if I remember correctly, only require 5 digits.

It might have something to do with the game's coding. When linking to the second quest, the linked game might need such an overhaul that it requires 20 digits, or something like that.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 22, 2013, 07:22:17 PM
And as for my timeline theory, I still stick by my opinion that it just makes more sense for Seasons to take place after Ages because of the whole time-travel debacle. It just makes it feel weird to know that this version of Link has a major adventure in-between another major adventure, rather than before or after it. There's that, and also the fact that if Link could travel through time, why not go back to Holodrum, travel back in time, and leave tons of useful items in a safe spot that he knows he'll come uncover in his Seasons journey which would basically allow him to clear the rest of his quest there with ease and have all the power he needs to stop Veran before she even has a chance to get away with Nayru's body into the past and disrupt the time-stream? If he had already completed his quest for Ages by the time he got to Seasons, then he couldn't really do anything at that point and it would just make sense that he would go through the standard procedure and go through every obstacle in his way while re-collecting items from scratch just to defeat Onox and restore the Temple of Seasons back to normal.

Makes sense. And on top of that, if I remember correctly, there's also some in-game evidence that makes Ages ---> Seasons seem a bit more logical (which I won't state yet, since you're in the process of replaying the games).

So I think I've decided on a favorites order on the Zelda games, from best to worst.

1. Majora's Mask
2. Ocarina of Time
3. Twilight Princess
4. The Wind Waker
5. A Link to the Past
6. Link's Awakening
7. Oracle of Ages
8. Oracle of Seasons
9. The Legend of Zelda
10. Skyward Sword
11. The Adventure of Link
12. The Minish Cap
13. Spirit Tracks
14. Four Swords Adventures
15. Four Swords
16. Phantom Hourglass

I do have to say, while none of these games are bad, the last few are games that I can't ever see myself going back and playing through again. Though with Zelda II it has more to do with the difficulty. Minish Cap, on the other hand, is good. But I just don't think it's nearly as good as Link's Awakening or the Oracle games.

The last four in particular are the weakest links. But as far as DS Zelda goes, Phantom Hourglass is the greater evil, and the only Zelda that falls below "adequate" and is just rather mediocre with few redeeming qualities.

Honestly, I still really want to experience the Four Swords games someday, but the reason I'll probably never get the chance to play them is because I don't have any friends. :'(

Well, what I mean is that I don't have any friends to play a co-op game like that with me, which is one thing I really detest about mandatory co-op games.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on May 26, 2013, 05:19:52 PM
Honestly, I still really want to experience the Four Swords games someday, but the reason I'll probably never get the chance to play them is because I don't have any friends. :'(

Well, what I mean is that I don't have any friends to play a co-op game like that with me, which is one thing I really detest about mandatory co-op games.

If you ever get a 3DS, I really hope they bring back Four Swords to it (which, if I remember correctly, has online multiplayer which should make it more convenient). It was on the 3DS Virtual Console for a few months for free, but they eventually took it off. I have no idea why. I mean, why can't they just bring it back, but sell it for $5 or something. Four Swords is the hardest game in the whole series to even ever get a chance to play, so I don't understand Nintendo's decision. :??:

At the very least, Four Swords Adventures isn't mandatory co-op, and its single player mode is perfectly fine. Then again, the 3DS version of Four Swords had a single player mode as well, but that one was awful since the game was made 100% for multiplayer.

Also, some of you guys should try to make your own favorites lists (or tiers, if that's easier).

I'll do one after I'm done replaying all of the classic 2D Zelda games (though obviously I can't rank TP, SS, or either of the DS games, since I don't have the means to play any of those games). I could make a list right now as I've played every other Zelda canon Zelda game in at least some quantity, but I won't to replay everything anyways to gauge my impressions on each game as accurately as possible.

You know, for the longest time, Ages was my favorite game, but I think the only reason I put that one over Seasons was because it was the one I owned, while I had only rented Seasons once or twice. Replaying them, they might switch places. Right now, the conclusions I'm coming to (almost done with Seasons, will revisit Ages for the first time right after as a linked game):

-Ages has the better story. In Seasons, everything with Din and Onox happens right at the start, and after that, you're pretty much just left going place to place, with one of the Twinrova sisters stopping to talk to you once before dungeon six, and a few little story arcs taking place in Subrosia between each dungeon, but only half of those deal with getting into the Temple of Seasons. In Ages (from what I remember), there's all that great stuff with the Black Tower being built throughout the game, that guy (Ralph?) being Ambi's descendant, and saving Nayru almost halfway through the game, and dealing with Ambi's possession after.

-As a result, I actually kind of like Veran as a villain more than Onox. Just feels like she's in the plot more.

-Seasons has a better overworld and gimmick. I just don't like how half of Labrynna is ocean, and the mountain sections are far more annoying. Traveling through time has been done before. Seeing places change throughout the seasons was more interesting.

-Seasons has better items. I'll take things like the Roc's Cape, seed slingshot, and regular flippers over the level 2 power bracelet, seed shooter and the obnoxious movement method of the mermaid suit any day.

-I can't decide which I dislike more, Seasons' mandatory stealth sections or Ages' mandatory minigames.

Hoping to beat Seasons tonight. When I start Ages, it will be the first time I've ever used it as the linked second game, so I'm excited for that. And I'll be able to go over what I wrote here and see what holds up and what doesn't.

The funny thing is, I replayed and beat Ages just a week ago, and I'm in the middle of my replay of Seasons in a linked game. Seasons was always the one I preferred, but keep in mind this was only slightly, as I love both games. I pretty much agree with everything you said, though. Ages definitely has the better and more involving story. But I'm more of a gameplay guy, and while Ages has terrific gameplay, I just feel that Seasons had slightly better design. I liked the gimmick better because it was new and as you've said, the whole time travel thing has been done in games before (though, that's not to take away from Ages's great use of the gimmick). Its just that the Seasons felt like a more interesting way in which to manipulate the world around you. And as for the items, once again, I agree. I think Seasons just had the better and more interesting assortment. One thing I didn't like about Ages is that it tends to merely just give you upgrades of items you already got from previous dungeons. Like, having the stronger power gloves from the final dungeon, just felt disappointing, as all I could really do now was lift heavier objects, and I like having new mechanics introduced into the game. Its a reason why I love the magnetic gloves from Seasons. Its a unique item that really added in a fun new gameplay mechanic which could be used for both puzzles and platforming.

As for everything else about both games, though, I think they are pretty on par. They both use all of the same normal enemies, and the boss fights for each are pretty hit or miss. I still like to count these games together as my favorite 2D Zelda game.

Same here, which is why visiting them so long after playing them (and declaring them together as one of my favorite games of all time) is so interesting.

Somehow, my dumb ass wound up with Moosh's flute, which sucks because he is easily the worset of the three animals (and has the worst unique area). I wanted Dimitri so bad.

Those goddamn power gloves have got to be the most disappointing items in the Oracle games, especially that late in. It would've been great if the Roc's Cape carried over.

I'm thinking Seasons might top Ages, but as I've said, I've got to replay it. But compared to my two plays of Seasons, I've played Ages about three times as much, so I "think" I've got a good enough memory of it to make those judgements.

If there's anything I've still got to compare, it's the dungeons and bosses. I have gotten lost in at least three of Seasons' dungeons, but the only boss that's really given me trouble is Digdogger.  :anger: Guess it'll depend on how many times I yell "bullshit!" at the screen and nearly throw the system. Just as it was 12 years ago. lol

Quote from: Nel_Annette on June 02, 2013, 09:06:27 PM
Somehow, my dumb ass wound up with Moosh's flute, which sucks because he is easily the worset of the three animals (and has the worst unique area). I wanted Dimitri so bad.

I actually got Dimitri's flute on my current play-through of these games, which I attained in Ages first, and it indirectly carried over to Seasons on my linked game, in which he gave it to me once I met him again. I remember back when I played Seasons years ago, I actually got Ricky's flute instead.

QuoteI'm thinking Seasons might top Ages, but as I've said, I've got to replay it. But compared to my two plays of Seasons, I've played Ages about three times as much, so I "think" I've got a good enough memory of it to make those judgements.

Having just replayed all of Ages, myself, I can safely say that I still prefer Seasons, but like I said, on the whole its still pretty close.

And I rediscovered my severe loathing for Keese.  :joy:

I like Ages a bit more. But I agree with you guys that it's very close.

Had way more trouble with Onox than I used to, but that's because I always used to have the Master Sword in that fight. Thank god for restore points! I've already beaten the first dungeon in Ages. Spirit's Grave has got to be the easiest dungeon in these two games. Both bosses take mere seconds to beat, the whole dungeon only takes about ten minutes, the boss key is in the most "un-boss key" area ever... I had more trouble in the Gnarled Root Dungeon.

And the 3DS makes this password thing waaaaay less tedious. The way you can just suspend the game, go over to the other and pick up where you left off, do the password task, and go straight back to the linked game without having to go through the title screen or any bullcrap is just fantastic. I just did the one involving the graveyards and the ghost's guessing game that nets you an extra heart container in Seasons. With that done, I'm taking that password he gave me back to Ages, to get another heart container from Farore. Since this is the first time I've ever played Ages as the second game, that whole event was new to me.  :thumbup:

Quote from: Nel_Annette on June 03, 2013, 01:11:39 PM
Had way more trouble with Onox than I used to, but that's because I always used to have the Master Sword in that fight.

Would you believe that on my very first play-through of Seasons, I actually ended up having to beat Onox with the wooden sword? I didn't use guides to beat the game, so I completely missed getting the Noble Sword, and while Onox's first form was easy, his true form took me dozens of tries to finally beat. I thought he was the hardest Zelda boss ever, until I learned that he only took half as many hits with the Noble Sword, and a third as many with the Master Sword. :sweat:

Wait. In your first playthrough, it's actually possible to get the Master Sword? I thought that was only possible in the linked game.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on June 03, 2013, 06:01:19 PM
Wait. In your first playthrough, it's actually possible to get the Master Sword? I thought that was only possible in the linked game.

And when did I ever imply that? Read posts carefully sometimes. I merely just said that I didn't know about the Noble Sword on my first play-through, and only learned about it later, as well as the Master Sword. I shouldn't need to add in that I found out about its existence later because that's obviously implied, and clearly when I did find out about it I knew it could only be attained in a linked game.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 03, 2013, 06:04:45 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on June 03, 2013, 06:01:19 PM
Wait. In your first playthrough, it's actually possible to get the Master Sword? I thought that was only possible in the linked game.

And when did I ever imply that? Read posts carefully sometimes. I merely just said that I didn't know about the Noble Sword on my first play-through, and only learned about it later, as well as the Master Sword. I shouldn't need to add in that I found out about its existence later because that's obviously implied, and clearly when I did find out about it I knew it could only be attained in a linked game.

My post was directed at Nel. But it turns out that I misinterpreted something he said. So nevermind.

Eh, Sorry, I overreacted there. That's exactly the shit I was talking about in the self-criticism thread. :P

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 03, 2013, 05:59:12 PM

Quote from: Nel_Annette on June 03, 2013, 01:11:39 PM
Had way more trouble with Onox than I used to, but that's because I always used to have the Master Sword in that fight.

Would you believe that on my very first play-through of Seasons, I actually ended up having to beat Onox with the wooden sword? I didn't use guides to beat the game, so I completely missed getting the Noble Sword, and while Onox's first form was easy, his true form took me dozens of tries to finally beat. I thought he was the hardest Zelda boss ever, until I learned that he only took half as many hits with the Noble Sword, and a third as many with the Master Sword. :sweat:

Dear god, man... dear... god...

But yeah, Talon, I used to always be able to beat him with the Master Sword because I always played Seasons as a linked game. I don't think there's any legit way to get the Master Sword before using link passwords.

I had to take a break earlier.  forgot about all that Tokay Island item-stealing bullshit and that I have to play that stupid-ass minigame for the scent seed.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 03, 2013, 06:39:04 PM
Eh, Sorry, I overreacted there. That's exactly the shit I was talking about in the self-criticism thread. :P

If it makes you feel better, I was talking about how I tend to misinterpret people's posts in that self-criticism thread. :sweat:

Okay, yep, Seasons is definitely a better game, severe lack of story be damned. What is with Ages and all these damn minigames before Mermaid's Cave? I think I blocked all of this from memory. These are the worst Gorons ever...

:srs:

As I said before, it was bad enough having to do the stupid dancing mini-game once (way more than that if you count all of the times that I failed), but just imagine how pissed I was when I realized that I had to do it all over again in the past.

Seriously, what's with these Gorons? Link is trying to save all of Labrynna, and they have the gall to actually charge him money and make him play mini-games just so he can enter the next dungeon to get another essence that he needs for his quest? These Gorons are just fucking ass-holes.

You saved our elder! THAT'LL BE 20 RUPEES TO PLAY OUR GAME.
You have our Emblem of Brotherhood. WE'RE STILL CHARGING YOU.
A Letter Of Introduction from my best friend? NOT GOOD ENOUGH. DANCE FOR YOUR KEY, WHORE.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fglobal3.memecdn.com%2Fgoron-dance_fb_261981.jpg&hash=80c2c8e99ff1d9ec8fdaa3975d8cd62aa3e7da1c)

I put off on giving my thoughts about Zelda long enough.

My Zelda days didn't start until I got a Nintendo 64 with Ocarina of Time, and like everybody else I was taken by surprise.  To have a game that large and have so much to do really blew me away. I'd say I was completely hooked by the time I saw my brother fight against the forest temple boss. I'd say this game was so good that my brother, sister, and myself took up all 3 slots. My sister's never been much of a gamer, but she liked it just as much, if not more than me. I think we all nearly lost it when we fought Shadow Link.

Majora's Mask was catering more towards me, although, I'm probably in the minority when it comes to MM. I just like the premise of the whole 3-day event thing. It gave me a sense of urgency. The only thing that held this game back was the stupid expansion pak. That thing would overheat so fast causing my game to freeze, and I'd be in the process of trying to find a fricken owl statue. I still haven't finished the game because of that.

Unfortunately, by the time I got my hands on Wind Waker (which I already did care much for due to the cartoony style) and Twilight Princess (I think around 2009-2010) I was practically over the OoT style. And that's where I stand today as well. I know it works for everyone else, but that style really showed it's age when I got Twilight Princess. I think I got all the way up to being in the sky or something, and I just couldn't finish it. Everything felt so tiring like I've done this already.

I think in order for Nintendo to get me back to being a fan of Zelda again, they may need to add some mechanics from a game like Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden. While I don't necessarily need a combo or style-like mechanic I would like to see Zelda implement a weapon upgrade system or something. Going around collecting things is fine and dandy until your rupee bag becomes full and all you keep doing is running into chests filled with rupee's. That's annoying.

I actually agree with upgrading the combat mechanics, at least as far as the 3D Zelda games go. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't expect anything with near as much depth as Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry, or Bayonetta, but just some more breadth to what you can actually do with melee-based combat in the game would be nice for some interesting strategy and fun experimentation. Of course, Nintendo will understandably never do that to keep Zelda as accessible of a franchise as possible, but I think they could design it in a way in which they had a default difficulty in which you don't require any sort of advanced combat, while implementing a Master Quest mode of sorts (akin to Ocarina of Time's Master Quest) for players who want more of a challenge, which could include making harder puzzles and obstacles to overcome, and of course tougher enemies that require more a more skillful use of combat to defeat. Of course, they couldn't just half-ass a mode like that in order for it to work, so it probably wouldn't be worth the effort for Nintendo to do something like that unless it would somehow be a huge selling point of the game. For someone like me it certainly would be, but for the majority of gamers and even Zelda fans, they  probably wouldn't bother with it.

It's certainly possible for Zelda to take a Ninja Gaiden approach to the combat, now that Aonuma is wanting to change up the formula a bit. Darksiders II showed that a Zelda-style game with a deep combat system can work, and Ninja Gaiden Black/Sigma also had a little bit of Zelda influence in them (in fact, didn't Itagaki state that Ocarina of Time is one of his favorite games?).

I feel like, to a certain extent, Twilight Princess did what you guys are talking about.

Quote from: Rynnec on June 15, 2013, 03:04:11 PM
It's certainly possible for Zelda to take a Ninja Gaiden approach to the combat, now that Aonuma is wanting to change up the formula a bit. Darksiders II showed that a Zelda-style game with a deep combat system can work, and Ninja Gaiden Black/Sigma also had a little bit of Zelda influence in them (in fact, didn't Itagaki state that Ocarina of Time is one of his favorite games?).

Yes. In interviews about Ninja Gaiden, people often questioned Itagaki on what influenced the design of that game, and most of them assumed it was Devil May Cry, which he always denied, but its obvious that he definitely took at least some influence from that game. However, he said that his primary influence for making Ninja Gaiden (being that this was his first ever action game and he had no experience making one from scratch before) was Ocarina of Time, which is something that I can believe based on the level design that he used in Ninja Gaiden.

I think its fine for a Zelda game to mainly just stick to Link using his sword as his primary (and in most cases only) melee weapon throughout the entire game, but they could add a bit of depth to it by giving him different combat styles that he could switch between, with a unique move-set for each of those styles. That could all help spice up the game's combat and it would only be an improvement, just so long as the game still put as much focus on adventure and puzzle-solving elements as previous great Zelda titles have.

So, the Nintendo Direct just said that the Link in A Link Between Worlds is not the Link from A Link To The Past but takes place much later. Essentially, it takes place between Zelda 1 and Link's Awakening. Apprently there's a cutscene discussing that Link and hopefully telling what happened to him after Link's Awakening. You also go into the "Other World" (It's not called the Dark World for some reason) by slipping through cracks in rocks and the layout is entirely different from the LTTP one.

Also, the game is looking awesome.

So a bit of the songs were updated in Wind Waker HD. Click here for direct comparisons. http://gengame.net/2013/09/a-closer-look-at-the-wind-waker-hds-soundtrack-updates/

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/09/13/zelda-producer-on-majoras-mask-remake-please-write-that-i-laughed

^ Best developer response ever.

Also, here is a video that directly compares Wind Waker footage with Wind Waker HD footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4hOVb1GCfg&feature=player_embedded&hd=1

It's shaping up pretty well.

3D Majora's Mask is on the way, I bet.

Anyway, Link Between Worlds is becoming my most 3DS game. I've been purposely avoiding all information on it for a while now because I want to be surprised. Should be fun.  :)

Wow, I had my doubts, but they delivered. The bloom is nowhere near as bad as it was when they announced it. Looks damn good.

The re-recorded music is really good as well. I just hope Dragon Roost Island's theme still sounds as sexy as it did in the original version...

http://www.target.com/p/the-legend-of-zelda-the-wind-waker-wii-u-deluxe-set-nintendo-wii-u/-/A-14757369#prodSlot=large_1_1

Finally bit on the Wii U, picked up this today.  Also took advantage of their buy two get one free deal and got NSMBU, Rayman Legends, and The Wonderful 101.

So here's the hook of the new Zelda game.

You can go to the shop and rent any item you want, then go to any dungeon you want in any order you want and complete at your leisure. When you beat the dungeon you then have the option of permanently purchasing the item you rented.

Effectively it is like Zelda 1 where you can go to any dungeon you want but with the improvements of the games that followed. Why nobody is talking about this game or hyping it is beyond me.

Aonuma explains the shop system:

QuoteIn today's Nintendo Direct, we revealed the name of the character in the A Link Between Worlds screenshot I posted here last time. His name is Ravio, and we also announced that you can rent and purchase items from his shop. You may be wondering what in the world we mean by "renting" items. Well, let me explain.

In Ravio's shop, each of the items you can use in the game are on display from the beginning. But Ravio only has one of each item in stock, so if he sells them he'll go bust! For this reason, he set the purchase price for each item at an outrageously high rate. Unfortunately, that means Link can't move forward and Ravio can't sustain his business, so he decided to start renting the items at reasonable prices. The rental period for each item is unlimited, so you can rent them for as long as you?d like, but if Link falls during his adventure and it's game over, the items will be returned to the shop. If you want to continue playing, you'll have to rent them again. After a while, you can eventually purchase the items, and once you do, you'll be able to keep using them even if you game over.

This may seem similar to the three day system in Majora's Mask where all your items are lost when you reach the end of the third day, but you'll be able to rent every item from the beginning if you can afford it. So unlike past Zelda games, you won't run into a scenario where you can't do something because you need a certain item that won?t be available until later. I hope all of you will experiment with many different items and play as you like.

The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds comes out on November 22nd. There?s still a lot more information to come, so please stay tuned.

Got the Wind Waker HD today. But golly gee, where's the Ganondorf action figure? You know, the only reason I bought this stupid thing? Oh, what's that, Gamestop? I had to preorder specifically the collector's edition the first day I could? And you didn't specify this when I asked about it weeks ago? And now I'm stuck with a $60 paperweight of a game I've already played the shit out of and have no intention of ever playing again? Well fuck you then!  :anger:

So here's what we've learned about A Link Between Worlds. Spoilers inside.

Spoiler

- It will be top down (this is good).
- It will be a story sequel to ALttP.
- Many gameplay elements of the game will be taken from ALttP.
- The look of the game, though it has its similarities with ALttP, is heavily rooted in the DS Zelda games.
- There is a dark realm called Lorule (I like to think that Aonuma had his little kid name it).
- There is an alternate Zelda who goes by the name "Hilda".
- Majora's Mask will appear in the game and will likely be more than just an easter egg hanging on the wall (http://www.gameranx.com/img/13-Oct/linkbetweenworldsmajorasmask.png), and that something in the game will be related to it... Seriously, fuck you, Nintendo.
- New villain who looks like a cross between Ganon and Ghirahim from Skyward Sword.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's too early to say anything about this game. But there's just some much they have revealed that I don't like. It's almost like Zelda is becoming a parody of itself. The fact that it's reminicent of ALttP seems more rehash-ish than anything and almost makes the game seem like fanfiction. Wouldn't be surprised if they reveal an upside down dark Triforce.

And I seriously hope this part is a misinterpretation and an overreaction on my part, but if they try to "go into" more of the story of Majora's Mask (referring to the mask itself), I will not be pleased. Everything about that game's story and setting is just something that should be left alone, never to be touched again. It doesn't bode well that this game features what appears to be a sort of dark tribe (it is said that some sort of dark tribe created Majora's Mask during the events of MM).

I've always had my issues with Aonuma being in charge of Zelda, but it's gotten worse. I feel like Zelda just isn't what it used to be.

[close]

Doesn't A Link to the Past take place in a different timeline from Majora's Mask? That would make nothing in A Link Between Worlds canon to MM and vice-versa.

Quote from: Foggle on October 12, 2013, 03:04:29 PM
Doesn't A Link to the Past take place in a different timeline from Majora's Mask? That would make nothing in A Link Between Worlds canon to MM and vice-versa.

Spoiler

True, but the mask still exists on the other timelines. It's not just the story of MM that I think should be left untouched, but everything about it (Termina itself, the backstory of the mask, etc.). Explaining anything just sort of taints and de-mystifies it. Besides, it's also confusing why'd they'd go back and delve more into the backstory of the mask, when much of the lore of Hyrule that deserves development is being left underdeveloped.

But again, I really hope that I'm just worrying too much over something that could end up just being something minor, like an in-game confirmation that MM 3DS is being made.

[close]

Termina was not saved in the classic timeline nor the Wind Waker one. So chances are it doesn't exist in either timeline.

Lorule could very well be what happened as a result of it being saved, then it went bad somewhere down the line and that is why they need Link's help. It would also fit in with the darker atmosphere of that timeline and the fact that Majora's Mask is just chilling in the shop.

That's my theory, anyway.

EDIT: I'm also not sure what is wrong with ANYTHING shown so far. It's a classic Zelda with LTTP mechanics and a choose-your-own dungeon system. What are they doing wrong exactly?

Spoiler

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 14, 2013, 04:57:18 PM
Termina was not saved in the classic timeline nor the Wind Waker one. So chances are it doesn't exist in either timeline.

Lorule could very well be what happened as a result of it being saved, then it went bad somewhere down the line and that is why they need Link's help. It would also fit in with the darker atmosphere of that timeline and the fact that Majora's Mask is just chilling in the shop.

That's my theory, anyway.

If you go by the timeline, Termina was not saved in the classic Zelda timeline. So if anything like that, Lorule would sort of be the ruins of the land.

And I just don't like the idea of tying MM in any way into this game. It's a great self-contained story, and I don't like the idea of Nintendo inserting these convoluted self-references that the recent games seem to love so much.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 14, 2013, 04:57:18 PMEDIT: I'm also not sure what is wrong with ANYTHING shown so far. It's a classic Zelda with LTTP mechanics and a choose-your-own dungeon system. What are they doing wrong exactly?

The ability to choose the dungeons in order sounds all good, and I wouldn't complain much about top down Zelda. But the game itself just sounds like such a copy-paste job of ALttP. Added to that the story elements I mentioned earlier that I don't like (largely including Majora's Mask), and I think I made my issues clear enough.

[close]

I'm saying that the "Between Worlds" is "Between timelines", and personally I'd prefer tying the timelines in instead of just not talking about them ever again. I'm saying Lorule is actually in that timeline while the normal world is in the classic timeline. Given that Aounuma said there's a surprise for beating the game, I'm assuming that's what it is.

It's just my theory anyway.

There also aren't any self-contained stories in Zelda. Ocarina Of Time has to happen for Majora's Mask to happen, so it isn't standalone. Not to mention the whole Twilight Princess theory of who the shadow figure is and it doubly isn't standalone. They all lead into another one down the line.

Anyway, I'm really excited for this one. I've been waiting for this since Minish Cap and it being done by the main Zelda team makes me more excited.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 14, 2013, 09:47:30 PM
I'm saying that the "Between Worlds" is "Between timelines", and personally I'd prefer tying the timelines in instead of just not talking about them ever again. I'm saying Lorule is actually in that timeline while the normal world is in the classic timeline. Given that Aounuma said there's a surprise for beating the game, I'm assuming that's what it is.

It's just my theory anyway.

Interesting theory. But I feel like they wouldn't make the story revolve around the timeline that much. Though maybe you think that, now that the timeline is out in the public, they will feel more inclined to refer to it nowadays, which may possibly be true.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 14, 2013, 09:47:30 PMThere also aren't any self-contained stories in Zelda. Ocarina Of Time has to happen for Majora's Mask to happen, so it isn't standalone. Not to mention the whole Twilight Princess theory of who the shadow figure is and it doubly isn't standalone. They all lead into another one down the line.

Well, 99% of what happens in MM stays in MM. True, Link does go to Termina searching for Navi, but the plot is completely unrelated. It's not like WW, where the story is deeply rooted in the history of events that took place during the events of OoT, or how SS is an obvious prequel to the whole series. MM has its own setting with its own history (which remains a mystery and, in my opinion, should very much stay that way), its own story, its own villain, its own everything. Link just stumbled into it.

I think Termina should be left as it is.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 14, 2013, 09:47:30 PMAnyway, I'm really excited for this one. I've been waiting for this since Minish Cap and it being done by the main Zelda team makes me more excited.

The main Zelda team brought us SS. :P

I'll say this much, though. I can't imagine A Link Between Worlds being weaker than the DS games.

...Personally, I'd love for all three timelines to tie into each other and merge at some point.

Quote from: Nel_Annette on October 16, 2013, 01:29:56 AM
...Personally, I'd love for all three timelines to tie into each other and merge at some point.

That would result in a world where, suddenly, three different histories would smash together into something impossible. Either that, or a list of potential things could happen...

a. A giant body of water will suddenly crash over Hyrule, and a new Hyrule that worships trains will sprout up somewhere else. (representing the WW timeline)
b. The Great Sea will  vanish along with new Hyrule, and the original Hyrule will exist as if it was never drowned. (representing the MM timeline and the 2D timeline)

a. The moon will suddenly rise up and bring the people of Termina back to life (representing the MM timeline)
b. After celebrating the end of the apocalypse brought upon them by the moon and the Skull Kid, the moon will suddenly reappear and destroy Termina, leading Majora's Mask to come back as well and return to the darkness (representing the WW and 2D timelines)

a. The Triforce will be reunited (representing the WW and 2D timelines)
b. The Triforce will split into pieces (representing the MM timeline)

I could go on and on. Overall, the concept of merging three timelines with massively different histories would just be really messy. :P

Dude, it's Zelda. They can bullshit a way.  :P

Personally, I'd prefer them ditching the timeline. :P

Quote from: Nel_Annette on October 16, 2013, 01:29:56 AM
...Personally, I'd love for all three timelines to tie into each other and merge at some point.

That's what I would like, too.

It's fantasy, they can always make an explanation somehow.

Has anyone ever read this article?

http://kotaku.com/5885595/zelda-just-keeps-getting-worse-but-it-isnt-beyond-saving

It basically argues that modern Zelda is broken, why it's broken, and how it can be fixed.

I think the article raises valid points, but there are points where it gives the original LoZ too much credit. The article praises a few parts of that game that are simply dated.

That article is one of the worst things I've ever read, everything else I've ever encountered by its author is similarly awful, and you should be banned for unironically posting a link to Kotaku.

;)

No, but really. I can kind of see where he's coming from at times, but I agree with almost none of the points Thompson tries to make, I find his writing rather amateurish and off-putting, and Kotaku is one of the worst "news" websites to ever exist.

Is Zelda really getting that much worse? I mean, I know that quite a few people were disappointed with Skyward Sword, but everyone and their mother seemed to love all of the console Zelda games that came before it, and the 2D and handheld entries have always done pretty well for the series (not to mention that we are getting a new one). Is this really what gamers have come to? Just one less than stellar game in the series means that it has hit the shitter?

It's Kotaku. They're the gaming tabloids, except most tabloids at least have a shred of credibility.

I don't agree with the article on basically everything about the Zelda franchise getting worse, but the idea of a game that basically allows you to run around, and explore it's world without being trapped by the confines of tasks and plot, and being exceedingly harsh and difficult to master is pretty intriguing to me, myself. I'd certainly play a game like that (I've never played the first two Zelda games, so maybe I'll do that sometime), but to say the the Zelda franchise is suckier and suckier for not having that type of gameplay isn't really a valid argument at all, as the writer is just relaying and exaggerating his/her personal problems with the franchise than actually objectively and fairly weighing it's overall pros and cons.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on October 24, 2013, 04:47:16 PM
Is Zelda really getting that much worse? I mean, I know that quite a few people were disappointed with Skyward Sword, but everyone and their mother seemed to love all of the console Zelda games that came before it, and the 2D and handheld entries have always done pretty well for the series (not to mention that we are getting a new one). Is this really what gamers have come to? Just one less than stellar game in the series means that it has hit the shitter?

From what I can tell, this guy actually thinks that every Zelda since and including Link to the Past is shit.

Quote from: Foggle on October 24, 2013, 05:51:35 PM

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on October 24, 2013, 04:47:16 PM
Is Zelda really getting that much worse? I mean, I know that quite a few people were disappointed with Skyward Sword, but everyone and their mother seemed to love all of the console Zelda games that came before it, and the 2D and handheld entries have always done pretty well for the series (not to mention that we are getting a new one). Is this really what gamers have come to? Just one less than stellar game in the series means that it has hit the shitter?

From what I can tell, this guy actually thinks that every Zelda since and including Link to the Past is shit.

The "Zelda 1 and 2 were the only good Zelda games" crowd is best worth ignoring. The fact of the matter is, the new 3DS game is giving them exactly what they want in mixing up the formula and taking it back to basics at the same time while giving them higher difficulty, but they'll probably harp on its art style or something in order to say it isn't what they want.

Heck, you can't even find the Zelda fans who melted down after Wind Waker's reveal these days.

These pockets of complainers really are a minority.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 24, 2013, 09:42:52 PMThe "Zelda 1 and 2 were the only good Zelda games" crowd is best worth ignoring. The fact of the matter is, the new 3DS game is giving them exactly what they want in mixing up the formula and taking it back to basics at the same time while giving them higher difficulty, but they'll probably harp on its art style or something in order to say it isn't what they want.

Heck, you can't even find the Zelda fans who melted down after Wind Waker's reveal these days.

These pockets of complainers really are a minority.

You don't have to agree with their opinion. But you can't just call it invalid. :P

I mean, I'm certainly not one of those fans, but their opinion is perfectly valid, and even I could easily see the arguments for LoZ and AoL being the best games in the series. Plus, the 3DS game wearing an ALttP skin doesn't mean the old fans are getting what they want. It'll surely have many of the modern Zelda conventions. As for their claims of taking elements of the game back to the franchise's roots, I'll believe it when I see it.

Also, I still see plenty of WW haters.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on October 24, 2013, 04:47:16 PM
Is Zelda really getting that much worse? I mean, I know that quite a few people were disappointed with Skyward Sword, but everyone and their mother seemed to love all of the console Zelda games that came before it, and the 2D and handheld entries have always done pretty well for the series (not to mention that we are getting a new one). Is this really what gamers have come to? Just one less than stellar game in the series means that it has hit the shitter?

Well, the article argues not just against SS. It argues that the franchise has slowly been on a decline and that it has reached it's all-time low with SS. And WW and TP do have their fair share of hate, it's just not nearly to the same extent as SS. Also, if you're including handhelds, there are three less than stellar games in a row.

As I mentioned above, I certainly can't call myself one of those people in any way. However, SS was such a disappointment and, to be honest, it makes me worried about the future of the series. It's not just a weak Zelda game. The entire structure and design of it just feels all wrong to me, and I feel many parts of it will end up sticking in future games. I'm sure I could name off 50 problems I have with the game. In fact I would, but you and many people here haven't finished the game, so I don't want to spoil anything. But some of the problems in the game, I feel have been growing for years, and in SS they are all just brought together and made worse than ever (fetchquests (even though I know you don't mind these as much, but I think they became bigger issues TP and especially SS), handholding, etc.). I just don't want the series to get stale.

Spoiler

Though I will inevitably get excited when Zelda Wii U is announced. :D

[close]

Skyward sword is just one game. People need to get over it.

As for the people who don't like most Zelda games past the first few, they are in the minority opinion for a reason.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on October 25, 2013, 12:59:20 PM
Skyward sword is just one game. People need to get over it.

As for the people who don't like most Zelda games past the first few, they are in the minority opinion for a reason.

Three counting the DS games.

Again, it's fair for people to not like where Zelda is now. And it's perfectly fair to be worried about the series' future. My main issue with the article I posted is that it tends to worship the original LoZ in some areas too much. For example, it looks at the invisible bombable walls in the overworld and says that's good design, whereas in later games they dumbed it down by showing cracks in the wall. I mean, making the bombable walls invisible is not good game design. It just depends on luck in finding them.

EDIT: I also think the article is way too harsh on puzzles.

No, if they think the only Zelda games that have any merit are the buggiest ones with the most boring puzzle, dungeon, and boss design then I can safely say they will never like another Zelda game. Being that every Zelda game since then has better puzzles, dungeons, and bosses by leaps and bounds. It isn't even a contest. That's pretty close to invalid to me.

But, uh, I don't see anyone ragging on Wind Waker for its art style these days. Mostly if they complain it's about actual gameplay features, not that CARTOONS DON'T ZELDA.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 25, 2013, 05:16:11 PM
No, if they think the only Zelda games that have any merit are the buggiest ones with the most boring puzzle, dungeon, and boss design then I can safely say they will never like another Zelda game. Being that every Zelda game since then has better puzzles, dungeons, and bosses by leaps and bounds. It isn't even a contest. That's pretty close to invalid to me.

The original LoZ is far more exploration based than any game since. You can basically do anything you want, there's no linear narrative and not much story at all, really. The dungeons are more simplistic labyrinths with no single path through them with secret passages all over (which is something I find makes them quite good today). And it pretty much depends on you to grow stronger. You can call the puzzles boring, but that really doesn't matter much because the original game was not a puzzle-based adventure. It's like saying Wind Waker fails as a stealth game (Forsaken Fortress) compared to MGS. I can only think of a few puzzles from the entire game. Really, the original LoZ probably has more in common with Skyrim than recent Zelda games.

With ALttP, they took a greater interest in a narrative and puzzles, and a bit more linearity in general. The overworld closes off areas until you get the needed item (especially in the Dark World), and the dungeons for the most part have a single path. This is the game where puzzles began to take the spotlight, and that would continue to grow more and more over the years until we got to SS. And at that point, the series had officially taken a complete 180 turn. It started with a game about exploration with virtually no real puzzles (LoZ), to a game that's almost 100% puzzles and no exploration.

Like I said before, I'm not one of those "NES Zelda rules, screw every other game" people. I happen to agree with you that the series got better since its early days. However, what you view as the franchise growing in every conceivable way since its birth, I see it more as the franchise has evolved and twisted to the point where the original game is now completely unique in its own series. It's not as simple as "every game since is better", in my opinion. There's also the fact that the original Zelda is simply a very different game from its followers. And someone might not like that direction it took. They might prefer exploration Zelda to puzzle/story Zelda. I also disagree that every Zelda is better than the original.

That's just my take on it.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 25, 2013, 05:16:11 PM
But, uh, I don't see anyone ragging on Wind Waker for its art style these days. Mostly if they complain it's about actual gameplay features, not that CARTOONS DON'T ZELDA.

Yeah, you're right actually. I just assumed you were referring to people's opinions on the game as a whole. I do see a few people around that still rag about its art style, such as Sean Malstrom. But that guy's borderline insane, so this is an opinion I don't mind disregarding. :P

I think every Zelda is mechanically better than the originals and I much prefer every addition ALTTP made to the formula that made it into every later Zelda, but Skyward Sword's weaknesses really have nothing to do with ALTTP, LA, or OoT, in my opinion. The newer games have a LOT of exploration to find items that aren't blind guessing games (sorry, but burning random bushes and pushing every tombstone in every direction with no indicator of if you're progressing is not good exploration, it's poor design) that were fixed in the follow ups to actually giving players hints to find either items or heart pieces. Exploration is no fun if the game punishes you for not exploring the way it wants you to.

But if the biggest issue is linearity, well that's exactly what they're doing with ALBW. You can go to any dungeon you want at any time in any order you want. If that's the number 1 issue, well, they're directly dealing with it here. Saying "they might screw it up" is sort of beside the point and avoiding a solution they're giving the player.

My problem with Skyward Sword was not that it was linear, it was that it felt like one long corridor. The story focus or motion controls can be good or bad depending on tastes, but I've never liked corridor level design in funneling players down a set path unless it's an arcade style game where score and general action and enemy placement are the focus. Zelda, being an adventure game, has no excuse for doing this. That and it didn't really fix the problem of items only being useful in the dungeons you get them in, if dungeon order is linear then there's really no reason to force that.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 25, 2013, 05:16:11 PMNo, if they think the only Zelda games that have any merit are the buggiest ones with the most boring puzzle, dungeon, and boss design then I can safely say they will never like another Zelda game. Being that every Zelda game since then has better puzzles, dungeons, and bosses by leaps and bounds. It isn't even a contest. That's pretty close to invalid to me.

Does that include the CDI Zelda games, by any chance? :>

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on October 25, 2013, 11:42:51 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 25, 2013, 05:16:11 PMNo, if they think the only Zelda games that have any merit are the buggiest ones with the most boring puzzle, dungeon, and boss design then I can safely say they will never like another Zelda game. Being that every Zelda game since then has better puzzles, dungeons, and bosses by leaps and bounds. It isn't even a contest. That's pretty close to invalid to me.

Does that include the CDI Zelda games, by any chance? :>

As well as Mario Hotel, of course. :joy:

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 25, 2013, 06:04:32 PM
I think every Zelda is mechanically better than the originals and I much prefer every addition ALTTP made to the formula that made it into every later Zelda, but Skyward Sword's weaknesses really have nothing to do with ALTTP, LA, or OoT, in my opinion. The newer games have a LOT of exploration to find items that aren't blind guessing games (sorry, but burning random bushes and pushing every tombstone in every direction with no indicator of if you're progressing is not good exploration, it's poor design) that were fixed in the follow ups to actually giving players hints to find either items or heart pieces. Exploration is no fun if the game punishes you for not exploring the way it wants you to.

But if the biggest issue is linearity, well that's exactly what they're doing with ALBW. You can go to any dungeon you want at any time in any order you want. If that's the number 1 issue, well, they're directly dealing with it here. Saying "they might screw it up" is sort of beside the point and avoiding a solution they're giving the player.

My problem with Skyward Sword was not that it was linear, it was that it felt like one long corridor. The story focus or motion controls can be good or bad depending on tastes, but I've never liked corridor level design in funneling players down a set path unless it's an arcade style game where score and general action and enemy placement are the focus. Zelda, being an adventure game, has no excuse for doing this. That and it didn't really fix the problem of items only being useful in the dungeons you get them in, if dungeon order is linear then there's really no reason to force that.

What do you mean exactly by "mechanically"?

Also, I think that the issues with SS are the result of a growing thing in the series. The Zelda franchise has been picking up habits with each game, whether it's an empty overworld, filler, too much handholding, these are all things that have grown more present in the games released within the past ten years. SS just represents the peak of that, essentially compiling every problem with Zelda and taking them to new heights. You say your issue with SS is not the linearity but the fact that it feels like one long corridor. But doesn't that fact directly connect to the game being overly linear?

I agree that burning random bushes and pushing random gravestones isn't good exploration. Like I said earlier, there are many aspects of LoZ that are simply dated, and don't deserve that article's praise. But just the sense of taking it upon yourself to explore places all around the map is something that is no longer present in modern Zelda games. Recent games put up invisible walls to make sure you don't go to certain places. And that's fine, but no matter what you prefer, it does represent a different approach to the new games that some may dislike. The original Zelda allowed you to go to any area anytime you wished, but said areas were polluted with really powerful monsters. So you could still go to them early on, you just had to be prepared to deal with things that could kill you in a single hit. That is something people might prefer in Zelda, over what it has done in recent years. I've long held the opinion that, if LoZ got an updated remake with the same fundementals of the original version, it could be a great game. Heck, both of the NES games could use WiiWare remakes or something. If they need to do remakes, I'd absolutely take that over ALttP 3D or Majora's Mask 3D.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 25, 2013, 11:45:25 PM

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on October 25, 2013, 11:42:51 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 25, 2013, 05:16:11 PMNo, if they think the only Zelda games that have any merit are the buggiest ones with the most boring puzzle, dungeon, and boss design then I can safely say they will never like another Zelda game. Being that every Zelda game since then has better puzzles, dungeons, and bosses by leaps and bounds. It isn't even a contest. That's pretty close to invalid to me.

Does that include the CDI Zelda games, by any chance? :>

As well as Mario Hotel, of course. :joy:

If you include Skyward Sword, then of course you're gonna include those CDI games.

I just went there.

In all honesty, even without having played SS, I can safely say that I'd still play it over the NES games. I mean, I have a ton of respect for those games, but neither of them has aged well at all, IMO. The first game doesn't have any semblance of clever puzzles aside from maybe a few (it was basically designed to sell Nintendo Power magazines with walkthroughs in them), and the enemy placement was so haphazard without much thought put into the design. The over-world was also shit by the standards of other 2D Zelda games. The 2nd game had the shitty over-world and also tried a new gameplay style, which is commendable in that it took a risk, but for me it just wan't very much fun. Personally, I'd take any Zelda game (other than the CDI ones) over those games. Respecting the originals is one thing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I can't be honest in saying that they show their age in more than just a few minor ways.

If you want me to be truthful, I'll say I can't play any overhead action game these days that doesn't let me move diagonally other than the first Ys games because of the way combat is designed. Your sword is too short and comes out too slow and the enemies move too fast in random patterns and since you move so clumsily it leads to a lot of cheap hits. Even without that, the dungeons are really basic and dull with not much going on except enemies that take too many hits to kill and kill you in only a few. The items are boring, every Zelda game has better items that isn't a CD-I game that let me do much more either against enemies or for exploration.

You're also living in the age of gamers who won't read a tutorial or an instruction manual to learn how to play a game and trade them in if they're too hard. Nintendo caters to the general public. They're not going to put out an obtuse game in one of their highest selling series and risk a pocket of NES gamers who think ALTTP ruined the series to bring them their highest selling Zelda game since OoT.

Because that probably won't happen.

Anyway, most of my favorite games are linear, so it doesn't bother me. My problem is not going from point A to B, but what I'm able to do from point A to B. Having a single corridor with no room to move severely limits what I can do to the point that it basically turns the game into an on-rail shooter. If I wanted an on-rail shooter, I wouldn't be playing an adventure game.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on October 28, 2013, 03:45:07 PM
Nintendo caters to the general public. They're not going to put out an obtuse game in one of their highest selling series and risk a pocket of NES gamers who think ALTTP ruined the series to bring them their highest selling Zelda game since OoT.

I'm unsure what you mean here. The original LoZ is a close 3rd in the series when it comes to sales.

I agree, however, that following its style completely wouldn't be best because it shows its age in many ways.

The original LoZ was a new game at the time on the system that revived video games. It had a higher userbase than both the SNES and N64 and far above the Gamecube. It's no wonder it had more sales since it had a higher audience. But still, back then people bought games like Power Blade, Contra, and Jackal, none of which are "mainstream" games. Nowadays, games like Wonderful 101, No More Heroes, and Yakuza don't sell because gamers aren't willing to sit and learn a game anymore. That's why we have six hour rollercoasters with no replay value and games that play the game for the player who isn't too good (though thankfully that is optional) to get him to the end. The days of people buying games for only fun is long over.

Anyway, I don't mind more options in adventure games, but I never got far in the original LoZ as a kid. Why? Because I had no clue of what to do and I would rather being playing a game that wasn't trying to leave me to figure out what they couldn't be bothered to explain.

So apparently A Link Between worlds got a 9.4 out of 10 from IGN. Though this is also the site that gave Skyward Sword a 10/10.

I guess we'll see. I'll need to play the game for myself to be convinced. At the very least though, I'm definitely glad that they are abandoning the style of the DS games.

Game Informer also gave it a 10/10 and gave Skyward Sword a 10/10 though it was a different reviewer.

You're not going to get much out of reviews for Zelda games.

Another thing confirmed is that it takes 5 about minutes to get to the first dungeon.

At least that's one of my main complaints addressed.

You didn't like when it took 2-3 hours to reach the first dungeon in Twilight Princess?

Quote from: talonmalon333 on November 14, 2013, 09:50:20 PM
You didn't like when it took 2-3 hours to reach the first dungeon in Twilight Princess?

:lol:

I wasn't even a fan of the intro in Minish Cap, and I really like that game.

So it stands to reason that the intro to Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword drove me to near madness.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 14, 2013, 10:00:40 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on November 14, 2013, 09:50:20 PM
You didn't like when it took 2-3 hours to reach the first dungeon in Twilight Princess?

:lol:

I wasn't even a fan of the intro in Minish Cap, and I really like that game.

So it stands to reason that the intro to Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword drove me to near madness.

I don't remember the opening of Minish Cap very well.

I honestly have to say that I would choose the opening of SS over TP. Maybe it took too long, but at the very least, it did a pretty good job at making me care about Princess Zelda. That, and it still wasn't as long as the opening of TP.

Minish Cap has you going to the town, to the castle, and then through a long story sequence when you get the cap in question. As far as 2D Zeldas go it's easily the longest opening, but it's still much shorter than the last two 3D games despite it.

The opening to Twilight Princess just kept going. Why that game had so much padding I'll never know. Without the padding it would have been so much better.

Yeah, I never got that. They had, like, 12 dungeons. That's pretty much a license to get rid of as much of the padding as possible. But no, let's go on a god damn bug hunt.

Three times.  :srs:

I don't think TP was terrible when it came to padding. Okay actually, the first half of the game was indeed terribly padded. But once you get to the second half, the game essentially "fixes" itself and comes fairly close to the brisk, smooth pacing of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.

It's not like SS which was just flooded with padding from start to finish. It really feels like 70% of that whole game is just filler.

Two things. One is this:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZZiPFtIcAA1wDC.jpg)

The other is the new Iwata Asks (http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/a-link-between-worlds/0/0) about the game. It's really a shame I most likely won't play it for a while. It looks like the exact Zelda game I wanted.

Too bad I don't own a 3DS.

Some choice review quotes:

QuoteThe other reason why you may get stuck at times is because this Legend of Zelda game doesn't go out of its way to help you. If there's one thing that recent games in the series have been guilty of, it was an excessive focus on hand-holding, spoon-feeding and storytelling (we're looking at you, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword). With regards to the latter point, it's fair to say that storytelling has never been the series' strongest asset just by itself, and rather what it truly excels at is progressing the gameplay and creating fun player experiences that work within the confines of the series' renowned settings and themes. This is very much true of A Link Between Worlds, which does away with long-winded cutscenes and tutorials, instead dressing up objectives in light storytelling and simply setting you on your way. This improved pace - which fittingly enough is reminiscent of A Link to the Past and older titles within the series - allows you to get to the action much quicker than ever before, and although there are still plenty of hints along the way, it's not always immediately apparent what you need to do. Moreover, the game offers you a fair trade-off for when you really do get stuck; pay the fortune teller a set amount and he'll tell you in plain English what to do next. With varying, yet optional levels of support available, the general difficulty of the gameplay is superbly scaled to accommodate for players with differing levels of experience.

QuoteBut not only is it much easier to die in A Link Between Worlds, it also carries pretty disastrous consequences, too. That's because for the majority of the game, it's not actually possible to own any of the items you use during your adventure. Instead, you rent these from a mysterious character called Ravio. The affordable rates and indefinite rental times make this service seem like it's too good to be true. But as is the case with all shifty salespeople, there's a pretty big catch: if you fall in battle, he reclaims everything. This can prove rather expensive and even frustrating if it happens at an inopportune moment, but thankfully there are plenty of rupees to be found throughout both Hyrule and Lorule to help recuperate any losses. The option to purchase objects comes later in the game, but it's worth noting that it isn't cheap; depending on how good you are at the game it may make more sense to try your luck and keep on renting indefinitely.

QuoteFurthermore, this open-ended approach to items allows for far more flexibility when it comes to your adventure. Dungeons can be completed in practically any order you wish, and you don't have to traipse back and forth across Hyrule frantically trying to work out where you need to go in order to find the item you need. Although dungeons no longer revolve around specific items, that's not to say that you still don't need to use a particular item at a certain point. Instead, you simply kit yourself out with what you need beforehand, and if you're not sure what you need, there's a rather handy instant travel system, which allows you to quickly move between various save points across the map. This streamlining of the items system works so well because it places the emphasis back on the most exciting element of any Zelda game: exploring the dungeons, solving puzzles and besting the bosses that lurk at the end of each one.

QuoteWith so many different things to do, you might assume that this Legend of Zelda title will set you back quite a few hours. However, this adventure only clocks in at around the twenty hour mark for a first playthrough, and we imagine it'd be much quicker a second time through. With that said, it's important to bear in mind that the main reason why it seems shorter is partly because of how much Nintendo has streamlined the experience. If you compare it to Skyward Sword - which was notoriously padded out with an unnecessarily drawn-out introduction, tons of back-tracking, collect-a-thon quests and a boss battle which just didn't want to end - A Link Between Worlds is actually a much leaner product that's been trimmed of all the unnecessary fat, and one which allows you to just enjoy all the really good stuff. Moreover, you unlock Hero Mode once you've beaten the game, which provides a very stiff but rewarding challenge, should you choose to replay it at a later date.

QuoteWithout a doubt, The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds is currently the greatest game you can experience on the 3DS. Much like the legendary Master Sword that features throughout the series, this game is beautifully crafted and offers a superbly streamlined and timeless gameplay experience. Through Link's new transformation ability Nintendo has instilled a magical amount of innovation into the dungeons, boss battles and even the wider exploration of both Hyrule and Lorule; it's a small feature which makes a world of difference and continuously wows you throughout the entirety of your playthrough. In other areas, Nintendo has made all the right changes to the gameplay formula, resulting in a game that is always incredibly good fun to play. Long-time fans will certainly get a kick out of its nostalgic presentation, while all players will appreciate its impeccable design and superb usage of the 3DS's touch screen.

Eiji Aonuma and his team at Nintendo set themselves the unenviable challenge of creating the perfect Legend of Zelda game; with A Link Between Worlds, they may well have achieved just that.

Well, I'm basically sold.

You know what I really want to make a return from A Link To The Past.

...The Golden Master Sword.  :swoon: The power! The POWER!

Well going by continuity, the Master Sword should already be the Golden Sword in this game. :P

Does he use the Master Sword in this game? I have been avoiding everything about this game outside of general impressions.

I think the Master Sword is featured on the cover art. I could be wrong, though.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on November 19, 2013, 04:01:25 PM
Well going by continuity, the Master Sword should already be the Golden Sword in this game. :P

Yeah, but continuity's always wonky in this series.

Sword's lost it's previous power, restore it with blah blah blah etc.  :humhumhum:

Don't take this from me!

Is anyone getting ALBW today?

I'm probably going to wait until Christmas.

I'm planning to buy either ALBW or Super Mario 3D World tomorrow.  I wish I had enough money for both of them.  :-[

So... I bought ALBW yesterday. I kept telling myself I was gonna wait until Christmas, but I just couldn't help it. I still haven't done much Christmas shopping yet in general, and since there's still plenty to around, I figured now was as good a time as any.

Still not sure if I'm quite ready to break into yet though (just too much else to finish up first). But man, it's tempting. I haven't been this excited about a new Zelda since I don't know how long.

So hey, anyone else pick up ALBW yet? Don't tell me I'm the only one.  :SHOCK:

I haven't bought it yet, but my buddy/roommate guy is letting me borrow his copy(even though he hasn't even played it yet), and I have to say it's pretty fun.  I like how it's really similar to ALTTP, and the walking in the walls thing is pretty cool too.

Not really playing it too much at the moment though, putting most of my resources into 3D World.

I'm hoping I don't get spoiled on it. Reactions have been overwhelmingly positive and I'm surprised spoilers have been so well contained.

Yeah, I ordered the game along with 3D World and have pretty much avoided all spoilers. Kind of proud of myself.  :joy:

Except one plot. But it was something that I actually guessed (not anything I predicted here, mind you, just in my head) and it's actually an after-the-credits thing, so I'm not really mad.

Top 10 Zelda games (http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=218856)

Not a bad list, except #4 and #8 really have no place on it. There are better Zelda games.

It's a good list. I personally wouldn't have included the first 2 games in there (I mean, not when you end up leaving out stuff like The Minish Cap because of them), but everything else definitely belongs on the list, though I'd switch #10 and #3, myself.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 13, 2013, 09:14:27 PM
Top 10 Zelda games (http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=218856)

Not a bad list, except #4 and #8 really have no place on it. There are better Zelda games.

Why LoZ and AoL rather than SS? :P

For me, AoL is in the top 10 Zelda games, but I can certainly see why one might exclude it. It's a bit more "love or hate" than most games in the series. As for LoZ? Meh, it's definitely not one of the best, not with so many better games. I like it better than Skyward Sword, the two DS games, the two Four Sword games. So it'd at least come close to the top 10 for me.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on December 13, 2013, 10:36:56 PMWhy LoZ and AoL rather than SS? :P

I haven't played SS yet, but I could tell you with certainty that I'd take it over AoL any day. Sorry if you like that game, but I've tried really hard to get into it and quite frankly, I just can't stand it. As a Zelda game it just doesn't feel right, and as a 2D side-scroller it has aged horribly, IMO, and wasn't even that great compared to much better games of its time.

Certainly I would put Minish Cap on the list and ALBW (haven't played it yet, but I know it's better than the NES games) over them. SS might not be overly impressive, but it isn't like it's irredeemable or anything.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 13, 2013, 11:33:58 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on December 13, 2013, 10:36:56 PMWhy LoZ and AoL rather than SS? :P

I haven't played SS yet, but I could tell you with certainty that I'd take it over AoL any day. Sorry if you like that game, but I've tried really hard to get into it and quite frankly, I just can't stand it. As a Zelda game it just doesn't feel right, and as a 2D side-scroller it has aged horribly, IMO, and wasn't even that great compared to much better games of its time.

I can understand that. Like I said, it's more of a "love or hate" game than most of the series. I guess that makes it the most "cult" game in the series (I don't consider MM to be extremely cult anymore, as it has gotten more popular in recent years). And if there's one thing I can say about AoL, it's that while I like it, I do feel little desire to play it again. Though that might be because it's so hard and the concept of playing through it again scares me. :huh:

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 13, 2013, 11:43:04 PM
Certainly I would put Minish Cap on the list and ALBW (haven't played it yet, but I know it's better than the NES games) over them. SS might not be overly impressive, but it isn't like it's irredeemable or anything.

I haven't yet played A Link Between Worlds, but I would probably clip Minish Cap onto the #10 spot. And I just think LoZ is more fun than SS. It's dated, true, but SS honestly feels like a chore to me way too often. It seems like, when you're not in a dungeon, SS always has you taking care of some annoying busywork. :imnothappy:

The newest Nintendo crossover is with Tecmo-Koei and is tentatively called Hyrule Warriors.

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fnews%2F2013%2F12%2Fhyrule_warriors_is_zelda_meets_dynasty_warriors_and_its_coming_to_wii_u_in_2014%2Fattachment%2F0%2F630x.jpg&hash=7b12503c6a8316891afda4894fbb1dd8d543d903)

Your mileage may vary depending on how you enjoy a Dynasty Warriors game, but it does look like this one will have that Nintendo polish and does have some exploration aspects. I will keep an eye on this one.

Somewhat very intrigued will probably buy.  :unimpressed:

Dynasty Warriors is still a hot commodity?

Hell, they're still making Dynasty Warriors games?

Quote from: Avaitor on December 18, 2013, 12:12:02 PM
Dynasty Warriors is still a hot commodity?

Hell, they're still making Dynasty Warriors games?

Yep, they still sell. Though nowadays they mostly do crossovers with things like Fist of the North Star, Gundam, One Piece, or other franchises. People really dig the simplicity, I guess.

Though since Zelda hasn't been doing too hot in Japan, this might help it out.

Dynasty Warriors is HUGE in Japan. So much so that it easily outsells far better hack n' slash games like Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry, and Bayonetta.

I'm intrigued.

I've always wanted Zelda to take a more combat-based approach, and this is along the lines of what I was thinking. Even if it's just a spin-off.

Also, I was always curious about trying Dynasty Warriors. Guess I have a push to do that now while waiting for this game.

Some other screens (keep in mind it seems to be pretty early footage):

(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fscreenshots%2F54658%2Flarge.jpg&hash=d6a694f2235bf370dc92e5121f3a77bd759f7064)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fscreenshots%2F54657%2Flarge.jpg&hash=7a3a0189ae1e8c91df44a690a9bbb0156ed57724)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fscreenshots%2F54656%2Flarge.jpg&hash=60dcd1cfd00dd8d9daa9178966afb34e6b28b8a8)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fscreenshots%2F54654%2Flarge.jpg&hash=cadd199212ae65d3eb840d7783c3d770cdec7101)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fscreenshots%2F54653%2Flarge.jpg&hash=bdf8845480870c63ebcd467991eb60adbd9499c3)
(https://animationrevelation.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nintendolife.com%2Fscreenshots%2F54652%2Flarge.jpg&hash=da74e04851a858dfdda97f0816f2826f80d58c81)

I would hope there would be unlockable characters in this from other Zelda games, but it sure looks like Zelda meets Dynasty Warriors. But since I can dig some Dynasty Warriors every now and then, I'll probably give it a go.

If Tecmo Koei wants a surefire crossover success, lets have a 2D Ninja Gaiden IV with some classic 8 bit elements. I'm sure everyone wants that.

Quote from: talonmalon333 on December 18, 2013, 01:11:13 PMI've always wanted Zelda to take a more combat-based approach, and this is along the lines of what I was thinking. Even if it's just a spin-off.

If you wanted a GOOD Zelda game with a GOOD combat-based approach, then it would do better to model itself after DMC1 or NGB, in terms of keeping good level design while also implementing fun, nuanced combat. By using the DW formula, it'll just be shallow combat that will make even the standard Zelda combat feel more nuanced in comparison after just a few hours.

Here's the trailer, either way. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOq4IiuRMWk&feature=player_embedded)

To be honest, after that Yoshi Island DLC, I'm hoping that means a Mario and Sonic platformer is being hinted at. That's still my most wanted crossover.

Another thing I like seeing is that the landscapes in this trailer look big, which is nice after the last console game. Though I'm still seeing lot's and lot's of Bokoblins (practically the only enemy that ever appeared in Skyward Sword). Hopefully this'll at least be better than that game.

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 18, 2013, 01:44:48 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on December 18, 2013, 01:11:13 PMI've always wanted Zelda to take a more combat-based approach, and this is along the lines of what I was thinking. Even if it's just a spin-off.

If you wanted a GOOD Zelda game with a GOOD combat-based approach, then it would do better to model itself after DMC1 or NGB, in terms of keeping good level design while also implementing fun, nuanced combat. By using the DW formula, it'll just be shallow combat that will make even the standard Zelda combat feel more nuanced in comparison after just a few hours.

Is DW not all that good? Hopefully, at the very least, Nintendo will be able to balance that out.

Also E-K, with this game coming out, I no longer have a single excuse to not finally get into the hack and slash genre. So feel free to continue pestering me. :P

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 18, 2013, 01:49:35 PM
I'm hoping that means a Mario and Sonic platformer is being hinted at. That's still my most wanted crossover.

I still don't see how that would work well. Their platforming styles are so different and can hardly work together. The only way I could see them pulling it off is in 3D single-player, but that would lead to more problems.

It depends on who you ask. To me they are a bit too shallow and substanceless to hold my interest. I wouldn't recommend any of them as your gateway into the hack n' slash genre, but then again there are a number of people who like these games, so perhaps I'm not the best person to ask about it.

Personally I'd still rather have you play DMC1 or Ninja Gaiden Sigma as your first hack n' slash title.

Dynasty Warriors is nothing like other hack n slash games. It's a lot more repetitive and doesn't provide the same quality of challenge, level design, or boss encounters as Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Metal Gear Rising, or even God of War. Since you have a PS3, you can and should play any/all of those. :P

I agree with Ensatsu-ken in that I'd rather have had a DMC or NG-style action game for Zelda. I'll still check this out either way, especially if it has co-op.

I'm not sure if I want a NG-style Zelda game by Team Hayashi.  :-[

Either way, it's nice to see them branching out a bit with the series.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 18, 2013, 04:02:55 PMI'm not sure if I want a NG-style Zelda game by Team Hayashi.  :-[

I meant one in the style of NGB, preferably developed by VGS. That said, I've come to the assumption that this team quietly died given that we haven't heard as much as a peep from Itagaki in over a year.

Also, after Team Hayashi royally helped to piss off Metroid fans, I don't see Nintndo ever working with them on a big project again. ;)

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on December 18, 2013, 02:12:16 PM
It depends on who you ask. To me they are a bit too shallow and substanceless to hold my interest. I wouldn't recommend any of them as your gateway into the hack n' slash genre, but then again there are a number of people who like these games, so perhaps I'm not the best person to ask about it.

Personally I'd still rather have you play DMC1 or Ninja Gaiden Sigma as your first hack n' slash title.

I'll definitely start with DMC1. And I'm not just saying that. I'm legitimately interested in playing it. I hope to buy the HD set with Christmas money sometime after Christmas.

Still, I think this game can work out. And it looks like it's finally putting Link on something like a battlefield setting. I really do hope they bring enemy variety though. Bokoblins amounted to 99% of the enemy encounters in Skyward Sword, and the trailer for this game is loaded with them.

Also, you still planning on getting a Wii after Christmas? If so, definitely get  Twilight Princess. Opinions on it vary, but I think it's really good, on par with Wind Waker.

It looks like the reaction this game has gotten is extremely mixed. And understandably so. So far, I feel like we haven't really discussed how we feel about it.

As for me, I can't say if I expect it to be good or not. It's definitely intriguing, and it can work out. I'm just not sure yet. I'm not sure Zelda can compete on the hack and slash field, and the fact that Dynasty Warriors is apparently rather shallow in comparison to others doesn't bode too well.

But, we shall see.

I like Dynasty Warriors games, so I'm interested.

In other news, I do wonder what the Zelda DLC for Sonic will look like. The Yoshi's Island one was surprisingly fun.

If Nintendo would just so much as consult with someone who knows how to make good hack n' slash combat, like Itagaki, Kamiya, or Itsuno, and develop the game themselves, then it'd most likely be better than getting TecmoKoei to make yet another DW clone.

I'm not saying that the game has to have crazy deep combat like the games made by those developers. It can still be made very accessible to most gamers. It's just that they could use the experience and knowledge of one of those guys to craft above average combat with some degree of nuance to it for players who don't just want to button mash.

I got sucked into A Link Between Worlds. I got lost, I was exploring almost every inch of the map and using items in dungeons I probably shouldn't have been, and the game never sucked me into a funnel.

It might be the best Zelda game. The reviews and general fan reactions were right.

There is one dungeon you specifically have to do before another (the item is the only one you can't rent until then), but I don't really regret it because that dungeon was hard.

I don't really know what to say. This is Zelda done right in every way. There are certain items I miss, but as a whole, I don't have any complaints.

So I finally broke into it two days ago, and, uh... yeah, this is great stuff. I've barely even scratched the surface, and I can still tell you everything we've come to know and love about Zelda is here.

What a game.

I'm quite eager to hear talon's impressions. Everything about this has blown me away as far as Zelda games go.

And I'm done. I'll try to avoid spoilers, but I'm going to say that it is one of the best Zelda games.

My only disappointment is as follows, and it's not plot-related so peek if you are worried about such trivial things as I am:

Spoiler

NO ROC'S FEATHER! It's been in every top down Zelda since Link's Awakening, how could they forget it!?

[close]

Otherwise, every dungeon is masterfully designed and allows you to choose your own path through them while allowing you to basically carry a full arsenal of items at any time because rupees are actually needed for many things in this game. But don't let that make you think that items in dungeons are history, because they're not- you will still find some quite helpful things in dungeons some of which I couldn't even figure out how to get.

The bosses are the best ever in a top down Zelda- no question. The dungeons as well are full of clever puzzles as is the over-world (neither of which are much like ALTTP other than the base design of Hyrule) that has plenty of secrets to find- I don't know what some critics were saying in saying there were no secrets, you have to look for them. The music is excellent including a remix of my favorite Zelda tune (the dark world over-world theme from ALTTP) and highly atmospheric and the sound effects as well are dead-on classic Zelda. Even the art-style, criticized as always, reminds me of the Zelda 1 art in a more modern style and fits the fast-paced action perfectly. Which means, yes, the gameplay is fast like all the classic 2D Zelda games are which melds well with how tightly everything is designed.

The game isn't overly long because there's no padding, but it probably won't take more than 20 hours to beat which is perfectly fine with me. It's tight enough to offer much replay value especially with the obvious unlockable at the end. No 45 minute to 3 hour intro sequence, no corridors to funnel you down, no wide-open spaces of field with nothing to interact with, just you with whatever items you choose exploring the world around you.

I don't know where it would rank after only one playthrough, but it has been the Zelda game I've wanted since Minish Cap, and is probably the best game in the series since Wind Waker or maybe even A Link to The Past.

All in all, if you're a Zelda fan- this is well worth your time. The Zelda team is back on track.

Definitely the best Zelda I've played in years, probably since Wind Waker or even Majora's Mask.

It's just that good.

So Zelda Informer, that website that I used to follow but no longer, is apparently in the middle of a tournament putting every Zelda game against each other. They are currently on the final match.

Majora's Mask is in the final match (figures, being that Zelda Informer is one of the sites that made it cool to like Majora's Mask in recent years)... against Skyward Sword...

Yes, Skyward Sword is in the final match.

http://www.zeldainformer.com/articles/zelda-versus-championship-skyward-sword-vs-majoras-mask#.UuqYG_ldWFt

Four Swords Anniversary Edition is free on 3DS for a few days. And A Link To The Past is on the Wii U shop.

About damn time... *grumble grumble*

ALBW is my 2013 GOTY.

I know I should have mentioned it earlier, but there you go.

Welcome back. We missed you.

...And I agree.  :joy:

Thanks, it's nice seeing you guys again.

Zelda is back to form.  O0

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 03, 2014, 03:48:04 PM
Thanks, it's nice seeing you guys again.

Zelda is back to form.  O0

Wait until the next console game is on-rails, and in a more literal sense than the last console game. :o

Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 03, 2014, 03:51:42 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 03, 2014, 03:48:04 PM
Thanks, it's nice seeing you guys again.

Zelda is back to form.  O0

Wait until the next console game is on-rails, and in a more literal sense than the last console game. :o

An arcade-style on-rails Zelda would be awesome... as long as it's not the next main console game.

If they don't take anything from ALBW for the next console Zelda I'm going to be extremely disappointed.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 03, 2014, 03:54:24 PM

Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 03, 2014, 03:51:42 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 03, 2014, 03:48:04 PM
Thanks, it's nice seeing you guys again.

Zelda is back to form.  O0

Wait until the next console game is on-rails, and in a more literal sense than the last console game. :o

An arcade-style on-rails Zelda would be awesome... as long as it's not the next main console game.

If they don't take anything from ALBW for the next console Zelda I'm going to be extremely disappointed.

They will take the linearity of Skyward Sword to the next level. :sly:

What do you guys think about the idea of voice acting in Zelda?

Unneeded.

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 04, 2014, 06:48:47 PM
Unneeded.

I was hoping for more than a one word post. :thinkin:

Quote from: talonmalon333 on February 04, 2014, 06:52:15 PM

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on February 04, 2014, 06:48:47 PM
Unneeded.

I was hoping for more than a one word post. :thinkin:

I was hoping to have a more explicit reason. :D

But really, ALBW had more than enough story and surprisingly little text to carry it along. Adding voices to that really would be a waste of time and might even distract from the atmosphere.

I think people who want voice acting just don't like reading, honestly. IMO, that's a lame excuse.