The main problem with current Disney is their lack of image, style, and unique identity. Don't get me wrong, when it comes to their films, they definitely still have it. They still remember what makes them different.
Their TV output is a whole different story. As Avaitor put it:
Quote from: Avaitor on April 20, 2012, 05:07:10 PM
I mean, you gotta admit, whatever you think of the show now, the animation and artwork from this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loUNoy0Qub0) can easily fit into Disney's canon.
But when you watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCEMieM5OB8), would you guess that it came from the Mouse House?
There doesn't seem to be much passion in their TV department anymore. Aside from the live action still chasing that Hanna Montana gold, their animation is probably at its nadir. Just compare the two examples.
Gummi Bears had a whole world and lore created for it. This is all explored in the show. The characters all have individual personalities, episodes and plots centered around them, and the animation has so much care put into it you'd be hard pressed to notice it was made for syndication of all things. That's not even going into the insanely talented cast and the fact that it lead to possibly the most popular animated block of all time, but I'll stop here.
Fish Hooks has an art style ripped out of Nickelodeon, it has stock characters tipped out of a bland era Cartoon Network show, and the animation is Flash 101. This is not a choice of the people behind it, as the staff behind it were actually very talented and respected figures in the industry. No, this show was a deliberate move to be mediocre by Disney.
So let's compare. You have a show which was made to be on par with some of the greatest animated films of all time, and another that was made to be nothing but time filler. Both made by the same company.
This is just all kinds of disappointing.
I hate the current Disney Channel trend to have all of their actors scream every line. Hell, it isn't even that current, it kind of started with Kim Possible (moreso on Ron and Drakken's side, but still presently annoying enough), but became a full-fledged annoyance with Raven.
Do you remember that one part in the Nostalgia Critic's review for AOSTH, where he has Dumbass McGee try to send in the show for his project and says that it's all about running around like idiots and having loud, obnoxious characters do nothing but scream at each other for a half hour. It's like that was the actual pitch for the show, and Disney thought it sounded entertaining enough and ordered a full season of just that happening undersea.
Okay, honestly... Disney has a current animated TV output? :-X
As I said in the other thread, the art style of Fish Hooks really doesn't bother me all that much (even though yeah, it is still cheap flash), and the combination of live-action backgrounds is kinda cool in some situations.
What kills me about that show is everything else. The writing is atrocious, the voice-acting is somehow is even more atrocious, the characters are all as grating as they come (the fact that a large portion of the writing staff also worked on Chowder really shows), and the whole atmosphere basically boils down to your prototypical Disney teenybopper fare. Really, the art style is probably the best thing about it.
This quote, in particular, from one of the high-ups at Disney (Gary Marsh, I believe), really bothers me about this show:
QuoteThe Fish Hooks team has created one of the most original, inventive animated series on television ? bringing an ingenious twist to the classic archetypes of high school life.
:wth:
High school life has been done to death on television, and other than the fact that these are fish in high school, there is absolutely nothing new about this that hasn't been done a thousand times over already (even by Disney themselves). The characters act the same, talk the same... other than the whole fish aspect, what exactly about this show is so groundbreaking?
...and that's one of the major problems with Disney today.
Everything on that network today is either a vague, over-the-top portrayal of high school life, or wish fulfillment. The days of a crime-fighting Duck, a gumshoe Bobcat, and all the other great things we've come to know and love about them (as far as their television side of things) seem to be long gone.
Quote from: Avaitor on April 20, 2012, 05:38:25 PM
I hate the current Disney Channel trend to have all of their actors scream every line. Hell, it isn't even that current, it kind of started with Kim Possible (moreso on Ron and Drakken's side, but still presently annoying enough)
This has always bothered me because Will Friedle is a very talented actor with a lot of range. Kim Possible was probably one of his worst usages as it really made him do little more than scream all the time.
Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 05:40:31 PM
Okay, honestly... Disney has a current animated TV output? :-X
They might as well not at this point.
I don't even know what channel Disney is on. I don't think I've watched it in years, certainly not regularly. Phineas and Ferb I've only seen on Netflix, but aside from that I don't even know what they air, or have aired for a few years now.
I just watch Phineas & Ferb, and after those 30 minutes, Disney Channel no longer exists in my world.
Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 05:41:31 PM...and that's one of the major problems with Disney today. Everything on that network today is either a vague, over-the-top portrayal of high school life, or wish fulfillment. The days of a crime-fighting Duck, a gumshoe Bobcat, and all the other great things we've come to know and love about them (as far as their television side of things) seem to be long gone.
Which is ironic because that was exactly why the Disney Afternoon was created in the first place, to refresh old brands, to return to their roots, and branch out from there to create new ideas.
Can you even think of much pre-TDA Disney TV animation other than specials?
Disney is once again in a similar predicament, but instead of taking advantage of their talented lot (Imagine if they never let Tad Stones, Jymn Magon, or Greg Weisman create anything?) to return themselves to their peak, they just settle for mediocrity and time filler.
And the obsession with high school life is bothersome and it was even when I was in high school. Simply because nobody likes high school! Why would I want to spend my non-school time watching other people in school?
Phineas & Ferb is really mediocre. I don't know why people like it so much, and I hate to browbeat tastes to such a degree (especially given that this probably is the one instance that Disney is giving an honest effort), but almost everyone I follow on Twitter raves about it, and for the life of me, I just cannot see the appeal.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 05:51:48 PM
Can you even think of much pre-TDA Disney TV animation other than specials?
There wasn't any. Besides the specials and some packaging of their shorts and movies, Gummi Bears and The Wuzzles were Disney's first animated series.
Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 05:54:00 PM
Phineas & Ferb is really mediocre. I don't know why people like it so much, and I hate to browbeat tastes to such a degree (especially given that this probably is the one instance that Disney is giving an honest effort), but almost everyone I follow on Twitter raves about it, and for the life of me, I just cannot see the appeal.
Mostly because it tells kids to be imaginative and do things instead of being boring little shits for the rest of their lives, or at least that's how I've seen it.
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 05:51:48 PM
And the obsession with high school life is bothersome and it was even when I was in high school. Simply because nobody likes high school! Why would I want to spend my non-school time watching other people in school?
It's always such a grand portrayal of high school as well; one that would never be allowed to exist in any real world setting.
I don't know where it became such a given that this is what kids like watching. I mean, as a kid, I never watched TV like this. I was about 9-10 when Lizzie McGuire debuted, and I couldn't stand it. It seems to be vague stereotyping, or something to that degree, that kids all want to watch other kids doing things they can't do (again, the grand portrayal of high school that simply isn't the case in real life). I don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.
I don't get why they make high school shows on kids channels.
High schoolers swear, have sex and do drugs. You can't do any of that on Nick or Disney, so why bother?
Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on April 20, 2012, 05:56:39 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 05:54:00 PM
Phineas & Ferb is really mediocre. I don't know why people like it so much, and I hate to browbeat tastes to such a degree (especially given that this probably is the one instance that Disney is giving an honest effort), but almost everyone I follow on Twitter raves about it, and for the life of me, I just cannot see the appeal.
Mostly because it tells kids to be imaginative and do things instead of being boring little shits for the rest of their lives, or at least that's how I've seen it.
I can appreciate the message, but the humor just does nothing for me (which is why I don't understand the broad adult appeal; it's such a kids show through and through, and yet you've got guys in their 30's that legitimately enjoy it, and not out of nostalgia either). Even the Perry segments, admittedly the best thing about it, could still use a lot of work.
Quote from: Avaitor on April 20, 2012, 06:04:22 PM
I don't get why they make high school shows on kids channels.
High schoolers swear, have sex and do drugs. You can't do any of that on Nick or Disney, so why bother?
Because they want to idealized version of the future or something, or maybe because Saved by the Bell made it popular. I don't know.
Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 06:01:53 PM
It seems to be vague stereotyping, or something to that degree, that kids all want to watch other kids doing things they can't do (again, the grand portrayal of high school that simply isn't the case in real life). I don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.
Even as a kid I hated bad child actors. I either wanted to watch cartoons or live action stuff made for adults. :P
EDIT: Post reads kinda' weird. Just clarifying that I didn't want to watch adult cartoons, just adult live action.
Quote from: Avaitor on April 20, 2012, 06:04:22 PM
I don't get why they make high school shows on kids channels.
High schoolers swear, have sex and do drugs. You can't do any of that on Nick or Disney, so why bother?
SECRET LIFE OF THE AMERICAN TEENAGER!? ;D
Quote from: Avaitor on April 20, 2012, 05:55:12 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 05:51:48 PM
Can you even think of much pre-TDA Disney TV animation other than specials?
There wasn't any. Besides the specials and some packaging of their shorts and movies, Gummi Bears and The Wuzzles were Disney's first animated series.
Ah, I thought there might have been a show or two, but that just makes it worse. If you can top what you did twenty years ago, you need to try harder.
Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 06:01:53 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 05:51:48 PM
And the obsession with high school life is bothersome and it was even when I was in high school. Simply because nobody likes high school! Why would I want to spend my non-school time watching other people in school?
It's always such a grand portrayal of high school as well; one that would never be allowed to exist in any real world setting.
I don't know where it became such a given that this is what kids like watching. I mean, as a kid, I never watched TV like this. I was about 9-10 when Lizzie McGuire debuted, and I couldn't stand it. It seems to be vague stereotyping, or something to that degree, that kids all want to watch other kids doing things they can't do (again, the grand portrayal of high school that simply isn't the case in real life). I don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.
It's not like I hate everything that uses the setting. Boy Meets World is one of my favorites, for instance, but it has a lot more to it than just high school antics and it tries to tackle the problematic parts of high school as well instead of pretending high school is all sunshine and rainbows.
I've actually seen Lizzie McGuire recently and it's pretty much that anti-thesis of Boy Meets World. There's a lot of stereotypes, wish fulfillment, and plots that don't go anywhere or aren't about anything.
But unfortunately it was a hit, and yet again, the formula has since been milked for all its worth.
I also like Ned's Survival Guide because while it is about that, it actually tries to make it as cartoony and as "Nickelodeon" as possible while still informing kids on how to get through the tribulations. It feels a lot more genuine than Lizzie McGuire does.
Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 06:07:03 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 06:01:53 PM
It seems to be vague stereotyping, or something to that degree, that kids all want to watch other kids doing things they can't do (again, the grand portrayal of high school that simply isn't the case in real life). I don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.
Even as a kid I hated bad child actors. I either wanted to watch cartoons or live action stuff made for adults. :P
Exactly.
When I was a kid, if I wasn't watching cartoons, I was watching stuff like Seinfeld. My live-action palate was roughly the same as my parents, other than maybe the old Nickelodeon stuff (but that was way different anyway; Clarissa, Pete and Pete, Legends and the like were not in the same ballpark as what Disney's been doing for years now). You wouldn't catch me dead watching Disney Channel's live-action offerings.
Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 06:07:54 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on April 20, 2012, 06:04:22 PM
I don't get why they make high school shows on kids channels.
High schoolers swear, have sex and do drugs. You can't do any of that on Nick or Disney, so why bother?
SECRET LIFE OF THE AMERICAN TEENAGER!? ;D
...
Let us never acknowledge that show's existence again.
Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 06:07:03 PM
Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 06:01:53 PM
It seems to be vague stereotyping, or something to that degree, that kids all want to watch other kids doing things they can't do (again, the grand portrayal of high school that simply isn't the case in real life). I don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.
Even as a kid I hated bad child actors. I either wanted to watch cartoons or live action stuff made for adults. :P
EDIT: Post reads kinda' weird. Just clarifying that I didn't want to watch adult cartoons, just adult live action.
As a kid when I was watching my Saturday Morning Cartoons(TM), and I heard the school bell ring indicating that Saved By The Bell was starting, I immediately changed the channel. I never wanted anything to do with it. I never even met anyone in my school who did, either.
I even liked elementary school as a kid, but still didn't want to watch that. School was enough school for me!
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 06:09:26 PM
Quote from: Avaitor on April 20, 2012, 05:55:12 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 05:51:48 PM
Can you even think of much pre-TDA Disney TV animation other than specials?
There wasn't any. Besides the specials and some packaging of their shorts and movies, Gummi Bears and The Wuzzles were Disney's first animated series.
Ah, I thought there might have been a show or two, but that just makes it worse. If you can top what you did twenty years ago, you need to try harder.
Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 06:01:53 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on April 20, 2012, 05:51:48 PM
And the obsession with high school life is bothersome and it was even when I was in high school. Simply because nobody likes high school! Why would I want to spend my non-school time watching other people in school?
It's always such a grand portrayal of high school as well; one that would never be allowed to exist in any real world setting.
I don't know where it became such a given that this is what kids like watching. I mean, as a kid, I never watched TV like this. I was about 9-10 when Lizzie McGuire debuted, and I couldn't stand it. It seems to be vague stereotyping, or something to that degree, that kids all want to watch other kids doing things they can't do (again, the grand portrayal of high school that simply isn't the case in real life). I don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.
It's not like I hate everything that uses the setting. Boy Meets World is one of my favorites, for instance, but it has a lot more to it than just high school antics and it tries to tackle the problematic parts of high school as well instead of pretending high school is all sunshine and rainbows.
I've actually seen Lizzie McGuire recently and it's pretty much that anti-thesis of Boy Meets World. There's a lot of stereotypes, wish fulfillment, and plots that don't go anywhere or aren't about anything.
But unfortunately it was a hit, and yet again, the formula has since been milked for all its worth.
I also like Ned's Survival Guide because while it is about that, it actually tries to make it as cartoony and as "Nickelodeon" as possible while still informing kids on how to get through the tribulations. It feels a lot more genuine than Lizzie McGuire does.
Oh, I don't mind the setting either; it's just not that 98% of the time, high school life, as portrayed on TV, is so ridiculous and physically unbelievable in every way that it's often hard to take such shows seriously.
...Ned, by the way, was really the last great live-action Nick show. After that, they just basically went into a comfort formula of rehashing Disney's leftovers time and time again, and it was all downhill from there (seriously, is iCarly anything BUT wish fulfillment?).
Quote from: Kiddington on April 20, 2012, 06:17:49 PM(seriously, is iCarly anything BUT wish fulfillment?).
I'm glad you mentioned that because it totally isn't anything but, which is a key part to why everyone keeps milking the formula. That's why CN has all those shows about kids in school because they think kids can't relate to adult characters or don't want to. It's why we haven't seen many new shows either not starring a kid or taking place in school.
It's a weird contrast to the early 90s when Tiny Toons was made which actually didn't use school all that much and wasn't entirely dissimilar from its source material nor was it watered down in content. Can you imagine if it was made now?
I feel like Ned started strong and then progressively went downhill. I stopped watching it about halfway through season 3 because I thought it was getting too idiotic and lame.
I thought it was great throughout. I think the finale might just be the greatest hour of TV Nick ever produced.
It really doesn't help that most focused on highschoolers deal with the
exact same crap (dates, grades, "being popular", basic white heterosexual forced "romance", etc.) with the same tired cliche character archetypes. Would it kill any of them to just use the highschool as just a backdrop?
Quote from: xXxFoGgLe=420xXx on April 20, 2012, 06:33:01 PM
I feel like Ned started strong and then progressively went downhill. I stopped watching it about halfway through season 3 because I thought it was getting too idiotic and lame.
They did focus a bit too much on the Ned/Susie/Moze love triangle (ugh).
Also, I feel like posting this here.
You know how bad Disney's TV-on-DVD division is? They couldn't get a season set of Hannah Montana to sell at the height of its popularity. I mean, you could make an argument for how older shows like Gargoyles and DuckTales could underperform for Disney with no advertising put into their releases, but what might be the studio's most popular show of all time at its most marketable? C'mon.
Yeah they need a better advertising department for their TV material. Nobody ever seems to know when they release things.
So I caught the first episode of Motorcity and I think I'm going to have a seizure. This show is WAY too fast paced and loud. The voice acting and art style is really interesting, the story doesn't seem too bad, but the pacing is way too fast for me.
The recent announcement of the Weekenders sets gave me the interest to bump this thread.
What do you think this means for the future of their other shows getting full releases on DVD? Is this a fluke, or do you think we can see more shows have their runs finish on disc?
Recess and the Weekenders is good enough for me.
Unless they're going to finish of those TDA sets, anyway.
You know what I just discovered? This. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFdNNp1O-Gg)
These are supposed to be airing on Disney Junior and help to teach kids about other cultures, and even have a lot of Disney cameos throughout. Keep an eye for a couple of familiar characters in this one, for example. ;)
I don't think this is the right thread, but this is too cool not to share. (http://cartoonresearch.com/index.php/the-launch-of-toon-disney/) Jerry Beck found a press packet he made for the launch of Toon Disney, as well as a YouTube video of the first 6 minutes of the network.
I didn't have TD when it first started, so I don't recognize these promos, but it's a lot of fun. And "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" is a great first choice!
Haunted Mansion animated special in the works. (http://www.insidethemagic.net/headlines/haunted-mansion-animated-special-announced-for-disney-channel-disney-xd-inspired-by-disneyland-ride/)
It's too early to have an opinion on how this will turn out obviously, but the ride is still one of Disney's greatest, so I'm totally interested. But it's a little surprising, or I guess not really, to see this announced around the time del Toro mentioned that his film reboot is still in production.
So the DuckTales reboot will be in CG, and it may not be the only reboot Disney makes... (http://www.rotoscopers.com/2015/08/03/jim-hill-ducktales-reboot-is-cg-animated-darkwing-duck-and-kim-possible-reboots-could-follow/)
Obviously I would be far more interested in a new Darkwing series than KP, but I'm interested to see how they look in CG. I hope they turn out well.
DW and not RR? I thought that movie meant they were planning on revisiting it. Not that I'm complaining, since the DW comic is relaunching with Sparrow and Silvani it would be a good way to capitalize.
KP I just couldn't really care less about. It got so tired near the end.
Anyway, TV CG has gotten a lot better in recent years so I think this could work out well. I just hope the writers are up to it.
I think they just mean TV series here. But I'm not sure if the Rescue Rangers movie is still happening or not. Disney's recent live-action adaptations of their animated films seems to be getting in the way of any other live-action films.
Quote from: Avaitor on August 04, 2015, 01:59:05 PM
So the DuckTales reboot will be in CG, and it may not be the only reboot Disney makes... (http://www.rotoscopers.com/2015/08/03/jim-hill-ducktales-reboot-is-cg-animated-darkwing-duck-and-kim-possible-reboots-could-follow/)
Obviously I would be far more interested in a new Darkwing series than KP, but I'm interested to see how they look in CG. I hope they turn out well.
I'm not. Jeez..my hype has never died so fast. Anyway, I guess that's just the reminder I needed to watch all the older Disney series I've been terribly neglecting. (Goof Troop, TaleSpin, Darkwing, Gargoyles, DuckTales, of course. Anything else?)
Edit: Ugh, KP stands for Kim Possible? I would have taken anything over that. I couldn't get into that show at all.
Here's a peak at The Lion Guard. (http://blogs.disney.com/insider/2015/08/12/watch-the-first-clip-from-the-lion-guard-and-find-out-whos-taking-on-the-roles-of-simba-and-nala/?cmp=SMC%7Clio%7Cnatural%7Cblgomd%7COMDAugust%7CTW%7Clionguardclip-Disney%7CInHouse%7C2015-08-12%7Cesocialmedia) Looks pretty promising. Disney Jr has been upping their game recently with their originals.
I'm kind of surprised that they can't get Broderick back for Simba, since he even showed up for the Timon & Pumbaa cartoon. And I don't think that he's that in demand anymore.
But the most important thing is that James Earl Jones will be back for the pilot movie. That, I need to see.