Animation Revelation's Top 65 Cartoons Talkback Thread

[Rynnec]

40. Fullmetal Alchemist- Agreed with Avaitor on this one. I believe we felt pressured to put this one one here given how popular of a choice it was and since it would generally be expected. If I've learned one thing since the time that we made this original list, it's that forcibly trying to meet other people's expectations rather than being true to your own opinion just doesn't work. It doesn't lead to an interesting list and an entry like that will feel hollow since nobody could write anything genuine about why they love the series. As far as I can recall, nobody involved with the original list was a particularly big fan of FMA to begin with (though if I'm wrong, by all means feel free to correct me), and it just didn't make sense to include it back then, and would make even less sense to include it now (and yes, that included Brotherhood as well). I think FMA is a well-made story that is fine for one read or watch depending on which version you pick. However, I have never felt a need to revisit it past that, and yes, I have read the entire manga and watched all of Brotherhood, so I've experienced the full story twice and it just doesn't impress me that much. If someone making the list really loves it and could write a passionate peace about it, then I'd be fine with keeping it, otherwise it could be left off if we were to do one now.

I dunno about a passionate piece, but I would without a doubt say that if any shounen made in the past 15 years deserves to be in a top 65 list, FMA would be one of them. I'm someone who's rather burnt out on shounen (modern ones anyway), but FMA is one of the few I can watch and enjoy on something beyond a nostalgic level.


American Dragon Jake Long - I don't have any real attachment or memories to this show, but between its contemparies, it certainly would deserve to get in over the ball of nothing that was Juniper Lee, or something as overhyped by its own creator like Danny Phantom. But as far as Disney shows go, I would put something more recent like Gravity Falls or Ducktales 2017 over it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I mean, if it's something that you really genuinely loved, then I have no objection to it on the list. My whole point though was that most of us making the list didn't have strong feelings toward FMA and if we're including it just because it feels like we're supposed to it comes off as a hollow entry more than an honest one. For my purposes it's a good series with good world building and a good magic system but one that just never properly invested me into it's characters or story. Obviously, like all things, it's purely subjective.

Also, as far as shonen go I kind of find genre to be a moot point since I've come to judge stuff more on quality of execution than on what genre they're a part of, though looking at our list I don't think we even included that many traditional battle shonen on there.

[Dr. Insomniac]

In a modern list, I'd imagine more Madokas, March Comes in a Like a Lions, and Mob Psychos on the list. And some older shows that didn't make the original list, like Osamu Dezaki's work or Konaka's projects.

[Foggle]

Going to respond to as much as I can here from Avaitor's original post! For the most part, I'm fine with completely overhauling the list, but there are a few that I definitely think deserve to stay on here. Also, I think Archer needs to be in at least the top 20 if not higher.

64- Baccano!

I'll be honest, while I really liked the series when I watched it ages ago, I rewatched the premiere a while ago and wasn't vibing with it at all. And I also had a hard time with Durarara, so maybe I'm just losing my touch with this kind of series. Am I crazy here? Do you think Baccano! is still higher tier?

It's a great show and I think it holds up really well but I'm willing to admit that it probably wasn't as excellent as I once thought. The soundtrack and art/animation are more notable than the rest of it to me these days.

63- Excel Saga

Still my blindspot on this list lol. Sorry, Foggle! I do have the first 20 or so manga volumes waiting for me to read when I get the chance, though.

The anime absolutely does not belong on a list like this lol. I'd vouch for the manga being in top 10 comics or something but Excel Saga being on here at all was mostly just me being a dumb teenager.

57- Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid

Yes.

Yes.

I'm fine with including the entire series (even though I still haven't seen IV), but I've tried to show multiple people season 1 and they bounced off it really hard, so I'm not sure how well that will fly. I also have to admit that outside of Gauron and the comfiness of the dub I find the original series kind of hard to watch these days myself.

56- Courage the Cowardly Dog

Why was this so low? Honestly, it's better than a lot of the other CN originals from its time, and should be at least in the top 50.

Top 20 imo. Best original Cartoon Network's ever aired as far as I'm concerned, though the Eds definitely give it a run for its money.

52- Paranoia Agent

Yeah, this should be higher. Rewatching this on Toonami last year was a treat. Possibly Satoshi Kon's defining work?

This should honestly be top 10. We need to give Kon the love he deserves.

45- GTO

Man, I haven't thought of this one in ages, but this was a hoot when EK hooked me onto it! I also have a feeling that some people would have a problem with it nowadays, but they're probably wrong. Still, I may need to refresh myself on this to see where it should go.

While GTO can be a little uncomfortable to watch at times, I think that was always part of its charm. Definitely would raise more eyebrows today but I think it's fairly obvious that you aren't supposed to be rooting for the protagonist to fuck students. I have no qualms with it staying on here but if you guys want to remove it that's fine too.

41- Johnny Bravo

I do really like Johnny, but I think this should go down a few spots. It's just not a very consistent show, but I'd still go to bat for it. There are enough episodes at every point of the series, even the the last series when Van Partible came back and cut out everything that was added during his time away. I think that I still like Johnny better than Dexter and maybe even Powerpuff, but I couldn't reasonably rank it above them.

This is definitely my third favorite Cartoon Cartoon but I also think it might be a show you had to be there for, like G1 Transformers and what have you. I love it a lot, and think it had some good lessons for kids at the time, but cutting it makes sense to me.

38- The Spectacular Spider-Man

I need to ask... how do y'all still feel about Spectacular? I have such loving memories of the series, but I haven't watched any of it in ages. Is it still as good as we considered it to be when it was new? Or have our standards changed enough to knock it down. I should probably just shut up and put my Blu-Ray on...

It completely holds up for me. Just an all-around amazing show that I would consider ranking higher, but I think this is probably the right spot for it since it will never be concluded so it's lacking pay off in a lot of ways.

36- Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law

I don't know how much of this has aged very well, honestly. "Bannon Custody Case" in particular makes me cringe- it's not just 10 minutes of "oh ho, the gays sure are funny, hint hint", but it's close to that, and there are other questionable episodes. But it's held up better than Sealab, I can say that much.

A few episodes can be a little cringe for sure, but I think it's really fucking funny to this day and will throw a hissy fit if it gets cut from the list.

32- Dexter's Laboratory

Did we really put Dexter above PPG? Wasn't my call- believe it or not, this has always been one of my lesser favorites of the classic CN shows. Most of the other shows just did more for me, and I think most of those are of equal or higher quality. But I do think it's good to have this and PPG right next to each other. They both showed the potential the new Hanna-Barbera staff could live up to, and they're strong compliments towards each other.

Honestly, I don't think Dexter or PPG hold up particularly well for me. Not saying we should cut them, because they're classics, but they're definitely shows that play better in my memory than when I revisit them, like Johnny Bravo.

31- Lupin III

A pretty fair ranking, I could see this go higher if anything. I know that some of Lupin's antics haven't aged all that well, but the earlier series are still highly entertaining, and the more recent ones have done a good job of contextualizing the characters and how they fit in relation to today. I'd like to keep them all together, but if we could only go with one series, I think it'd be neck and neck with the second and Fujiko Mine.

I would vote to move it to #25 at least. Lupin can be very hit and miss, but when you factor in all five parts and the Fujiko Mine series, it's one of the strongest cartoon runs ever made imo. I think Lupin's antics can easily be written off as products of their time, since even the most insufferable Twitter/Tumblr leftists seem to love the franchise. The Fujiko series does a lot of heavy lifting in that regard too.

28-Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni

I'll... I'll come back to you guys on this one. I should hit up my Blu set of the series. But it does seem like this site's mutual love affair with the first two series has died down considerably over the years.

I think the first two seasons hold up pretty dang well, but there's also been so much garbage since then that Higurashi no longer belongs on this list. I still haven't watched the new season, not because I don't care for the series anymore (I still love it, honestly), but because I don't have any hope that it will be good or worthwhile.

27- The Boondocks

I'm going to be brutally honest. I was an asshole in my teens and early 20's. To many people, some of which on this site. And I apologize. One thing I do feel bad about is how I enjoyed The Boondocks, and how I laughed at parts of the series that I shouldn't have. This came down to my own ignorance and superiority which I have no rights to claim.

Now when I watch the series, I recognize various bits that are meant to make non-Black viewers uncomfortable (a lot of which involves Ruckus), and while I no longer laugh at those parts, I respect the decisions behind why the strips and series was made. This is a very good series. Aside from the last season.

It's okay, I think we've all been there. I apologize too for acting in a similar way. That said, I believe Aaron McGruder is a genius for exactly this reason; The Boondocks deserves its place on our list and should maybe even be in the top 25.

26- Invader Zim

Like Death Note, I think enough time has passed to make it easier to look past the Hot Topic crowd who devoured Zim in its heyday, and admire the show for what it is. Gir is a little cringey, yes, but I think it's still funny, and probably the last time Nickelodeon could be seen as edgy after Ren & Stimpy. If anything, the movie helped to remind me of what worked about the series.

I will revisit this series someday, or at the very least watch the movie, but I have such little resolve to because it only makes me think about my cringe middle school days.

21- South Park

I think this is a good spot for the series, but I could see it going in the top 20 if talked into it. Personally, I don't like when it's the Randy Show, and I haven't had a taste for the series in a while, but I understand why it still resonates for so many. And I think the attacks Matt and Trey get from the left are a little unfair, and very tiresome.

South Park at its best is definitely one of the funniest shows of all time. I haven't watched any new episodes in years so I don't think I can really comment much on where it deserves to be. I can sort of see where people are coming from when they attack it for seeming reactionary, but for the most part I think their arguments really just reveal that they haven't actually watched it. I will say, though, that Mr. Garrison's Fancy New Vagina is fucking abhorrent on every conceivable level.

17- Futurama

I feel like the Comedy Central seasons have ruined my enthusiasm for the series, as I never come back to it anymore. They really don't need to make any more of it, even though the crew seem to never stop trying to bring it back. I'd rank this lower nowadays, as a few other adult series have taken its place for me, but tell me how I'm wrong anyway.

I 100% agree. The first four seasons are masterpieces but the revival sapped a lot of my enthusiasm for it in the same way the Higurashi OVAs did. Unlike Higurashi, I think Futurama does deserve to still be on here, but at a lower position, or at least with the caveat that we only particularly care about the original series.

11- Neon Genesis Evangelion

Ah, here's everyone's favorite (or least favorite) pretentious mecha normie weeb show. I'll be honest, I don't think that I could sit down and watch it again- I've seen it too many times and I've probably taken everything from it that I can. But I'm still pro-NGE, and think this is a good spot for it.

I will always vouch for NGE being high on this list, if only for EoE, which I think is one of the greatest films ever made.

8- Cowboy Bebop

Bebop is still the anime to recommend to people who don't get anime for a reason. Sometimes I feel like it's lost a bit of its luster over the years, but I've been trying to rewatch it piece by piece lately and... nah, it's still good. Will very likely still be a top 10.

I don't care how normie this makes me, Cowboy Bebop is a timeless masterpiece and when I revisited it recently it was actually better than I remembered it being. One of the most inspiring pieces of fiction of all time for me. It should be top 5.

7- Ed, Edd n' Eddy

This was probably what I fought for the hardest, and surprise surprise, I'd still like to put the show in the top 10. This is more than just a childhood favorite though. HBO Max putting the show up has been a godsend, and I often put on a favorite episode when I need something to calm me down.

And it does bug me that it's appeared on so few of these lists. This is still among the most creative series ever made, and it deserves to at least have a seat on the table with the other considered greats. This is a hill I'll die on.

No objections from me, but wait, it's on Max now? Hell yes!

6- Monster

Naoki Urasawa's manga is one of the best I've read ever, an unforgettable emotional thrill ride that's better plotted than most page turners you'll find. The anime adaptation is... one of the best manga I've ever read.

We fought to put Monster in the top 10, because we wanted to share the good word of the series when it seemed like it wasn't catching on all that well in the states. But let's be honest, while the series is perfectly competent, it's an indictment of the book report adaptation, as it doesn't really offer you anything you couldn't experience from the original manga. That, and the fact that Urasawa is a better seller stateside than we thought at the time, is enough reason to drop this version of Monster from the list entirely.

Yeah, much like Excel Saga, I would absolutely call Monster one of the greatest comics of all time, but the anime really has no business being on this list.

2- Batman: The Animated Series

I think I've mentioned this before, but I do think we're seeing B:TAS lose its influence. Action cartoons aren't being made in its image as much, and the aesthetic is similarly being copied less often. I think Avatar is more of the template nowadays.

But at its best, no one does what Timm and co managed with this. Not even with their other shows.

Not sure where I'd put it these days, but definitely a top 15 series at least. Still the best western action cartoon I've seen... not that I've seen particularly many.

1- Looney Tunes

Over the past few months, I've been putting on some Looney Tunes shorts when I'm having dinner, and it's always a good time. Whether I'm seeing Avery, Clampett, and Tashlin change how these cartoons handled comedic timing, or masterpieces from Freleng and Jones, these are still the kings of cartoons.

But if I was to do this again, they wouldn't rank here at all. I think we need to remove theatrical cartoons entirely from this list. Just to make it a little more balanced at least, as Looney Tunes, Mickey Mouse, Tom and Jerry, Popeye, no matter how strong these were, they weren't series in the same way everything else here is. Plus, we should see what would be the new king if we have to let Bugs retire the throne. Probably not The Simpsons.

100% agree with this.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I just noticed, but did we seriously not have Trigun on this list? What the actual fuck?

21. South Park- I don't know. It's clear that most people on this board aren't too fond of South Park, but I still contend that it deserves to be firmly within the top 20 on the list. Not only has it still maintained it's relevance, but I'd argue that a lot of older episodes still hold up, and while the recent stuff may not be to everybody's taste, it still clearly resonates with a sizeable audience (myself included). It always kind of felt like a double-standard to me that The Simpsons was forgiven for having more than half of it's run be fairly mediocre while South Park was arguably more consistent (at least for it's core audience).

20. Dragon Ball- I still love Dragon Ball. Partly out of nostalgia, sure, but also a lot because of it's genuine focus on humor and adventure. That said, I don't think that I could really justify it being so high on the list. If this were a comic book/manga list, it would be easier for me to make a case for it even being on the list. As it stands, though, it's a hard sell compared to so many other animated shows that could be up here.

17. Futurama- If we could allow for this to be specified as just the original FOX run of the show and exclude the Comedy Central seasons, then I could make the argument for this show still maintaining it's spot. If we have to include the CC run, though, then yeah, it'd demerit the show somewhat. Not enough to remove it from the list, but definitely knock it down from the top 20 spots.

16. Justice League/Unlimited- It's not perfect, and shouldn't be higher that TSSM at the very least, but I still love this show, so we could leave it or move it down a little and I would be fine with either option.

14. Gargoyles- I don't know, Avaitor. I've been re-watching this on Disney+ recently, and keeping in mind that TGC counts as a completely separate show, it still holds up damn well. I'd still push for this to be a top 10 contender.

11. Neon Genesis Evangelion- I haven't seen this in a decade, so I couldn't rightfully say whether it's place is justified or not, but if we are counting End of Eva as the true ending and excluding the originally aired final two episodes, I could see it still holding it's place, potentially.

And, I'll come back to the last few later.

[Avaitor]

I'm glad to see that I'm not totally crazy with my opinion on how the list mostly looks today. A lot of these series seem to be pretty timeless, at least to our age group, while others, like Higurashi, seem to tie this to the late aughts/early 10's, and others may not click with people who missed out on them, like Johnny Bravo.

We really should look into making a new list soon.

We should also probably post the rest of our video game list, even though that probably also needs a serious update.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Yeah, I also notice the double-standard in forgiving over 20+ subpar seasons of The Simpsons while being harsher on Futurama and South Park. The CC-era Futurama episodes at least had funny jokes even if the plots got stupid.

[Rynnec]

I mean, if it's something that you really genuinely loved, then I have no objection to it on the list. My whole point though was that most of us making the list didn't have strong feelings toward FMA and if we're including it just because it feels like we're supposed to it comes off as a hollow entry more than an honest one. For my purposes it's a good series with good world building and a good magic system but one that just never properly invested me into it's characters or story. Obviously, like all things, it's purely subjective.

Also, as far as shonen go I kind of find genre to be a moot point since I've come to judge stuff more on quality of execution than on what genre they're a part of, though looking at our list I don't think we even included that many traditional battle shonen on there.

Gotcha. In that case I'd be fine with leaving it out of a top 65 list. Like I said I love FMA, but not quite enough to confidently put it on over other shows I feel are deserving, let alone write a passionate piece on why.

32- Dexter's Laboratory

Did we really put Dexter above PPG? Wasn't my call- believe it or not, this has always been one of my lesser favorites of the classic CN shows. Most of the other shows just did more for me, and I think most of those are of equal or higher quality. But I do think it's good to have this and PPG right next to each other. They both showed the potential the new Hanna-Barbera staff could live up to, and they're strong compliments towards each other.

Honestly, I don't think Dexter or PPG hold up particularly well for me. Not saying we should cut them, because they're classics, but they're definitely shows that play better in my memory than when I revisit them, like Johnny Bravo.

While I think PPG should stay, I would 100% swap Dexter's out with Samurai Jack or even Clone Wars. Both were a lot more consistent on the whole, even with the former's weak final episodes in its final season. In general outside of Sym-bionic Titan, Gendy's action is a lot better than his comedies, and I think a new list should reflect that.

[Foggle]

Yeah, I also notice the double-standard in forgiving over 20+ subpar seasons of The Simpsons while being harsher on Futurama and South Park. The CC-era Futurama episodes at least had funny jokes even if the plots got stupid.

This is true. I think, combined, South Park probably has a season's worth of actually bad episodes, while Futurama is usually just boring at its worst. I would say both have much stronger overall runs than The Simpsons.

While I think PPG should stay, I would 100% swap Dexter's out with Samurai Jack or even Clone Wars. Both were a lot more consistent on the whole, even with the latter's weak final season in the final half. In general outside of Sym-bionic Titan, Gendy's action is a lot better than his comedies, and I think a new list should reflect that.

Yeah, I can definitely agree with this.

[Avaitor]

32- Dexter's Laboratory

Did we really put Dexter above PPG? Wasn't my call- believe it or not, this has always been one of my lesser favorites of the classic CN shows. Most of the other shows just did more for me, and I think most of those are of equal or higher quality. But I do think it's good to have this and PPG right next to each other. They both showed the potential the new Hanna-Barbera staff could live up to, and they're strong compliments towards each other.

Honestly, I don't think Dexter or PPG hold up particularly well for me. Not saying we should cut them, because they're classics, but they're definitely shows that play better in my memory than when I revisit them, like Johnny Bravo.

While I think PPG should stay, I would 100% swap Dexter's out with Samurai Jack or even Clone Wars. Both were a lot more consistent on the whole, even with the former's weak final episodes in its final season. In general outside of Sym-bionic Titan, Gendy's action is a lot better than his comedies, and I think a new list should reflect that.

I'll third this. At the time we made this, I was pretty much over Samurai Jack, thinking that it was all style and no substance. That's not even false though, but what style it has! Now that I'm a little older and recognize much of Genndy's influences better than I did as a child or teen, I appreciate the show a lot more, and think that it deserves a solid spot here.

Speaking of which, I need to watch the back half of Primal.

[LumRanmaYasha]

I think you can make an argument for all of Genndy's shows to have a spot on the list, even Sym-Bionic Titan. They're all really different and good in standout ways. But Dexter probably would be the lowest-ranked if you were to judge it on a quality/quantity ratio. PPG should definitely rank over it - I find its last two seasons are still a mile better than Dexter's.