Dragon Ball

[LumRanmaYasha]

Torashima doesn't hate Cell so much as he hates the Androids. 19, 20, 17, 18, & 16 - it's been on record that he chastised Toriyama for making them the villains, which is why Toriyama came up with Cell, who he found more acceptable. 

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Oddly enough, I prefer the androids to Cell, myself. That arc was shaping up to be much more interesting than it ended up being once Cell finally appeared. Androids 16, 17, and 18 were a fun trio with very unique attitudes and weren't completely evil (they were bad guys, but mostly just wanted to enjoy their freedom and have fun....at the expense of innocent lives), but then Cell comes in and he's such a boring villain with such a boring motivation and such a boring goal, IMO.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Best part of Cell was Future Trunks and the early build up of the arc up to Cell's first reveal. Once Cell takes center stage, I lose pretty much all interest in the arc.

Of course I'd personally prefer Namek being the end, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy later parts of the series. It's part of why I'm hoping Super is worth it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I've been re-reading Dragonball over the past few days (no particular reason, I just felt like revisiting a classic). I'm up to Muscle Tower right now:











Toriyama really doesn't get enough credit for what a brilliant cartoonist (and artist, as well as comedic writer) that he was. That's quality slapstick humor on the level of any great Looney Tunes short. The best thing about that humor is that it's universal in nature. It transcends a language and cultural barrier by not relying on pop-culture references or language-based puns. Anyone from any country and any generation could understand what's going on in those pages and panels with or without the ability to read the dialogue accompanying it.

And of course he's also great at action scenes, but I always associate him more with comedy.

[Spark Of Spirit]

There's a reason he's one of the best.

Thanks for reminding me that I should add the DB manga to my list.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Has anyone else been keeping up with Dragon Ball Chou (DBS manga)? It does a fairly good job of mimicking Toriyama's art-style (though nobody can truly do Toriyama but Toriyama himself), and IMO is wisely getting through the events of BOG at a fast pace and has even started building up a future story-line with Champa (who still has yet to even be revealed in the filler-infested anime). You could argue that it's too rushed, but I've aleady watched BOG multiple times and am glad to mostly skip Bulma's birthday party shenanigans, which weren't even very funny to begin with. What's more is that by cutting down on the lame humor, it has the effect of making Beerus come off as a legitimate threat. In just three chapters it's already past where last week's episode of the anime left off.

Perhaps if the anime turns out to be a big dud, this version might be worth sticking around for if it continues.

[LumRanmaYasha]

I've read it. Toyotaro can ape Toriyama's artstyle well-enough, but it's clear his drawing skills aren't nearly at his level, and that makes for some boring and vanilla-looking scenes. Pacing-wise things are about on par for what you tend to get with these tie-in manga; they rush through the plot points to tell the story in as fast a manner as possible, without giving enough time to really give any weight or impact to anything. It might have gotten through more in 3 chapters, but it's also a monthly series, and by the time the next chapter comes out the anime will be farther ahead again, and the cycle will just repeat like that. I do appreciate it building up Champa already where the anime hasn't shown him even once yet, but for me it just feels like a tie-in manga spinoff than something in it's own right, so far.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I think that the anime is way too filler-heavy, though, and to be honest I haven't enjoyed it at all so far.

As for the manga, to be fair, it's only three chapters in and has been rushing through the BOG story-line because let's face it, most DBZ fans don't want to retread the same exact ground again. It's entirely possible for it to slow down a bit once new material comes up. But even more than that, I can't stand the lack of any tension in the anime. With the manga, I at least feel that it's giving off the vibe that Beerus is a legitimate threat. Additionally, it changes around several key events from BOG, making it feel not as much of a tie-in as it otherwise would be.

Not saying that either version is great. Just that the manga's honestly been more enjoyable than the anime, which is really a testament to Toei's clear lack of effort, so far.

[LumRanmaYasha]

I don't find either particularly enjoyable right now. The manga to me feels like Toyotaro is being told by Toei and Shueshia what plot points he needs to put in each chapter, so he does, but the story doesn't flow and isn't effectively told as a result. I feel that the manga is obligated to always stay around where the anime is, and it feels like it's going through the motions without any soul to it or weight behind what's being depicted. The only vibe I get from it is a cheap manga cash-in.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I don't agree with you about it feeling like a cheap cash-in. And believe me, I'd be quick to call one out. The Episode of Bardock (also by Toyotaro) and DBSD are both cheap cash-ins. I was expecting this to be the same, but surprisingly upon some analysis, it has a strange tonal contrast to BOG. Whereas that was more about humor (not great humor, though) and a send-up to nostalgia, this one has the effect of making the situation seem more serious a dire.

It's nowhere near the quality of classic DB, obviously, but it at least seems to be trying to set up a story while not relying on just following the movies beat for beat. And honestly, the story flows better than the anime because it cuts out all of the filler (I never enjoyed Bulma's birthday party stuff, not even in the film; it was neither funny nor meaningful in any way). Really, all this manga effectively does is to showcase how thin the plot of BOG really was when you cut out the excess baggage. To prove my point, can you actually point out anything that it cut out that actually leads to any big plot-holes in the story?

And I'm not trying to hate on BOG, here. I think that the movie is OK, just not near as great as so many people seem to give it credit for, hence why I don't view the manga skipping over it as a downgrade, as you would.

Don't get the wrong idea, either. I'm not saying that I think it's very good manga, but more that Toyotaro at least seems to put in some effort to even tell a story, even if it is restricted to a pre-planned plot by other writers. Toei just seems content on dragging out the series as long as possible for some easy money.

Of course I'm not happy with the state of the current franchise outside of the movies, either. I just think that it's sad that the manga tie-in is more tolerable than watching the anime. Then again, also keep in mind that I don't like DBZ as an anime, either, and feel it to be a downgrade of Toriyama's original work.

[LumRanmaYasha]

I guess I don't see it in the same way you do. I suppose it's a little more serious because they took out all the comedy filler scenes and reduced the banter, but that alone doesn't really mean anything to me since I don't think the way the events are presented effectively convey that. I felt more tension in Vegeta's attempts in appeasing Beerus and in the fight scene following Beerus getting pissed at Buu for eating the pudding than the corresponding moments in the manga. Most of the party scenes at Bulma's was fluff and I don't mind any of that being excluded, but I definitely feel there's something lost by removing Vegeta swallowing his pride and prostrating himself in order to keep Beerus happy in order to protect his family and the planet, which in turn was better build up for him snapping when Beerus hit Bulma and added a lot more emotion and intensity to that, which I just don't get any sense of at all from the manga version.

I don't think the Super manga is as bad as the anime, and it is only three chapters in so it could become it's own thing later on. Right now, though, I just think that the execution of it is mediocre and standard of previous tie-in manga I've read, the essential beats of the story are not presented as well as they were in BOG, and feel that it's obligation to stay around where the anime is limits it's ability to tell a much better story than it could.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

As for the Vegeta thing, it's a good scene, but I certainly never felt any tension from it (we knew that nobody was getting killed off in the first DBZ movie in years). I didn't feel that it was a huge loss of a scene or anything (it's nothing like Vegeta sacrificing himself in the Buu saga).

And yes, it's only three chapters in. I'm not saying that it's good or bad, but that I could see it being good later on. What I mean is that, it's still at least trying to act like a story arc is being set-up. The fact that it has been able to reveal a presumably major new character and plot-point before the show, as well as how certain events are somewhat different from the anime, leads me to suspect that it might not be a complete carbon-copy of that version.

What's happened so far is fairly mediocre, yes, but that's only an extension of being bound to the BOG story-line so far. I'm curious to see what happens after the movie material is passed.

[Spark Of Spirit]

You know, I thought GT had a lot of good concepts for stories. The problem was that none of their writers were Toriyama or even close to him. Reading the story descriptions for GT is more entertaining than how it was executed.

Unless he were to be more involved like he was in the recent films, I can't say I have much interest in Dragon Ball.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

GT had some good ideas for how to continue the story. Turning Goku into a kid wasn't really necessary, IMO, but exploring new planets for the Dragon Balls brought the series back to its adventure roots, and attempting to expand upon the mythology of the Dragon Balls also felt like a rich concept. Unfortunately, the execution was just so off. It's clear that the writers didn't truly understand these characters, nor did they have Toriyama's sensibilities to make a story flow in an interesting way.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

This reminds me that I need to get back to reading Dr. Slump:







Also, it's hilarious to think that this was years before this series actually took an iconic plot turn that makes it impossible not to compare it to Superman.