Angel

[Spark Of Spirit]

Wolfram & Hart is hardcore. Didn't see Lee going out like that.

Season 1 of Angel really is a strong one.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yeah, season 1 is a strong start to the series. Season 2 is good as well, though has a rather anticlimactic finale. Buffy season 5 is the stronger of the 2 conjoining seasons, IMO. That said, the sister episodes from Angel and Buffy highlighting the history of the big 4 vampires (Angelus, Darla, Spike, and Drusilla) are easily the best episodes of each respective series for those seasons, IMO. You could make an argument for The Body from Buffy, but the character history type episodes are more re-watchable and more up my alley.

[Spark Of Spirit]

The episodic nature really works here. I think there was much more attention paid here than in Buffy season 4, I mean even the crossover episodes were far better here.

That said, so far it's as good as I remember it being.

[Avaitor]

Of the two seasons, I'd have to say that "The Body" and "The Gift" are the strongest for me. But I'll always say that Angel's mythology>him as a character.

[Avaitor]

I just finished my rewatch of Angel, so now I feel comfortable with making my rankings.

Season 1- 8/10

This is definitely a better first season than Buffy's, for the sake of being more confident alone. The writing is also consistently stronger than in most of Buffy's first season, and by the end, they really seemed to have got the basic ideas down. It also shares one of the perks of Buffy's first season, in that right away, the core dynamics of the main characters are handled well, with both the Doyle and Wesley halves of the season. But there's still the stench of beginner's weakness going on, with a couple of episodes that just don't work at all, and would only show up this early in a show's run. The lack of narrative structure compared to later seasons is also apparent, since for the most part, this feels like Whedon making a procedural. A way better procedural than most, but there were higher highs for the show to reach.

Season 2- 9/10

As someone who's never been especially fond of Darla, there's some fantastic stuff with her this season. But personally, I preferred it when Dru came back. That said, it's here where Joss and crew nailed the show's core difference from Buffy- this is about the Buffyverse's mythology as a whole, from the days of Angelus to the present day evils and back, which is where the best episodes of the season come from. The season-long story of Darla's return is great, but I had to knock a point off for the last stretch of episodes. The Pylea arc is important for a couple of reasons, in that it tested out Lorne's potential as a part of the gang, and introduced Fred to the show, but it still comes out as filler to me, and almost kills the vibe of an otherwise fantastic season.

Season 3- 10/10

Meanwhile, this is an even better season in terms of plotting. My only real problems are the love triangles-  Gru didn't really need to come back at all, and I never cared for Fred's decisions between Gunn and Wesley, but I'll get more into that next season. But the actual storyline becomes a bit rougher and more complex than Buffy usually gets to, with Holtz's vendetta hitting some major highs. Wesley's decision made near the end is another rough one that helps to sell this as a darker season than before. This might just be the best season of the whole show.

Season 4- 5/10

While this is definitely the worst of the whole show. The reveal of teenaged Connor was a good one last season, but he's kind of a terrible character here. His juggling of emotions towards Angel makes some sense, but it's a pain in the ass to actually watch. It gets even weirder when Cordelia becomes evil out of nowhere, with barely a logical explanation as to why she does. Then Jasmine happens, and... yeah, no. I also couldn't stand the love triangle that Fred had to deal with for most of the season, especially since it never truly felt that she had a reason to choose either Gunn or Wesley. That's another problem that I have with the show, and one of the reasons that I ultimately prefer Buffy- the Angel gang is not very good at doing melodrama at all. That is much better suited for the BtVS gang, although it definitely gets annoying there as well. The problem is, there's almost nothing but melodrama here. I gave this season a slightly better score than it may deserve since there are some very good episodes, and it does lead well into the next season, but it really is the weak link.

Season 5- 9/10

Maybe it deserves a perfect 10, maybe not. This used to be my favorite season, but a couple of episodes don't work as well as I remembered, or weren't very memorable at all to begin with. But when it's good, this is some of the best stuff that the show has to offer. It was a great decision to bring Spike and Harmony in, as well as to cut back from the heavier stories of the past few seasons to give the show a lighter balance ala some of Buffy's best. And in some ways, this feels like a more polished companion to the show's first season, which is a good thing. The addition of stories with Spike and Angel from way back, mixing in some with Angelus and others where he has a soul made for a good mixture. I'm also in favor of Illyria, since her appearance allowed for Amy Acker to show off her acting chops in a way that she never could as Fred. I would have liked another season, but at the same time, as a one-off victory lap, this is very satisfactional.

So yeah, I think that overall, I'm more of a Buffy fan, especially since I'll come out and say that the show's best characters came from BtVS. There are some things that Angel does better though, and at its best, it's downright essential to check out, which is why I'd absolutely recommend it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I pretty much agree with your ratings for the most part, though season 5 is my personal favorite.

Season 3 was also excellent, though, so I have no qualms about that being your highest rated season of choice. Aside from the usual cliffhanger finale for each season of the series, this season was narratively very tight, and Holtz is by far the best villain on the show.

[Avaitor]

II think season 5 might be a 9.5 for me, actually. I really do like it, but I'm not sure if it's a perfect 10 for me.

But did you know that on the season retrospective for the fourth's DVD, Joss called it his favorite? And for the next set, he did a list of favorite episodes, and most of them came from then. I wonder if time has changed his opinion on that.

[Spark Of Spirit]

So far I can't really say I agree that Buffy does melodrama better since the only melodrama I've seen it succeed with has been involving Angel and the fourth season pretty much whiffed in every aspect- even Faith had a better appearance on Angel than she did on Buffy when she returned.

I guess I'll just have to accept the fact that Buffy is never going to fully sit well with me. I certainly like it more now than I did years ago, but I don't see it ever reaching favorite status.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Have you seen season 5 yet? Dawn is annoying as hell (though, to be fair, Angel has the equivalent of that character in Connor, so it doesn't get off easy either), but other than that I think it's a great season. I think season 6 is lopsided, but I really like season 7, so whil I wouldn't consider the show a favorite either, I'd say it's about on par with Angel. I'd put Angel above it if it weren't for the catastrophe that was season 4, but unfortunately that actually happened and we have to live with it.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I'm still at the beginning of season 5. I was sort of derailed this week, but I'll get back to it soon enough.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Comparing Buffy and Angel by timeline, I tend to look at them like this:

Buffy season 4 < Angel season 1

Buffy season 5 > Angel season 2

Buffy season 6 < Angel season 3

Buffy season 7 > Angel season 4

So yeah, they are about on par, IMO. Even if you brought Angel season 5 into the argument, which aired after Buffy had ended, I'd have to bring in seasons 2 and 3 of Buffy to be fair, which would basically make that argument moot. I think both are on the same level of quality as each other in the grand scheme of things. They are both uneven shows, to be honest, but for me their good seasons far outweigh their bad ones, for the most part. That said, neither is a personal favorite of mine. I mean, they aren't Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones level good in terms of writing and acting, but as they stand they are still both important and memorable series that I now have a lot of fun memories of.

[Avaitor]

That's about how I'd rank them, and to be fair, Angel has a better first and last season than Buffy, but Angel never really matched the highs of seasons 2 and 3, as well as "The Body", "The Gift", "Restless", "Once More, With Feeling", "Conversations With Dead People" etc did. I end up preferring Buffy, but Angel has some major benefits itself.

As for the melodrama on both shows, I can't really defend Buffy's too much, but since it is meant to take place for a slightly younger time of age than Angel does, I do feel that it makes a little more sense for it to be relationship heavy, and there are times when it works. When this happens on Angel, I just can't say that I care at all. I already mentioned Fred's history with Wesley and Gunn, but I forgot about Angel and Cordelia's will they/won't they ordeal, which almost ended up as nothing, despite how long it lasted. But it's true, just because someone is better at doing something than another person, that doesn't mean that they're great at it.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Wow, season 2 was great.

There was a lot of world-building, good character moments, and pretty much every episode kept me engaged. Gunn showed his stuff and makes a great combination with the others, and Lorne also comes off really well. The massacre at the party killing everyone short of Lilah and Lindsey, Drusilla showing up, and all the back story (which was also welcome in Buffy season 5) were especially highlights here. I also liked since Wesley get a chance to shine as the boss, and Cordelia dealing with her power getting thrown out of whack, Kate being fired from the force, a lot happened in this season. Not to mention Lindsey finally snapping after Darla abandoned him and Wolfram & Hart used him as a guinea pig, and Angel's plummet into despair before being saved by the very thing that almost killed everyone in Buffy season 2.

The finale was alright overall, but seeing as it was fairly successful at what it was attempting I can't hate it. So far, the show is exactly as good as I remember it being.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

The finale was fine for what it was, but as a finale, it felt weak and out of left field. The rest of the season was great, though. They took a really shallow villain from the first season of Buffy, gave her a sympathetic backstory, and made her a much more interesting and complex antagonist for Angel.

Also, Wesley's character development is one of the best things about this show, and he definitely got tons of development in this season (and will continue to keep on changing until he develops into his full persona in season 4), which makes him one of my favorite characters (and one of the only things that I enjoyed about season 4, as well).

And of course, let's not forget Lorne. I mean, who doesn't love Lorne?

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Here is a list of my top 10 favorite episodes. I will do the same for Buffy later after some re-watches. No elaborate explanations, here, but feel free to ask about any of my choices. That said, I'm simply just listing what I enjoy the most from this series in re-watches:

10. Not Fade Away (5-22)
9. You're Welcome (5-12)
8. Orpheus (4-15)
7. Redefinition (2-11)
6. The Girl in Question (5-20)
5. I Will Remember You (1-08)
4. Sleep Tight (3-16)
3. Darla (2-07)
2. Hero (1-09)
1. Smile Time (5-14)