What Are You Currently Playing? 6.65: Neighbor of the Beast

[Foggle]

Watched some footage of the Korra game. Man, if you hadn't told me this was made by Platinum beforehand, I wouldn't have even known. It looks like generic licensed fodder from the PS2 era. ...Still better than the Young Justice game, though.

Hopefully it gets better in the later levels, but seeing something like this come out of my favorite game development studio is a bit disheartening. Then again, most of their top staff were probably busy working on Bayonetta 2 and Scalebound.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

You do realize that it's a download only game, not a fully-priced retail game, right?

It doesn't have as big of a budget as their usual games (not that those even have very big budgets to begin with), and is meant to be a smaller game that's only a couple of hours long and isn't as content heavy as a full-priced game.

I wouldn't say that it looks generic. I mean, can you tell me a game that looks just like it? The closest that I can think of is Anarchy Reigns, which as I said, was from the same director, so it's no surprise. As for the general look of the game, it doesn't look as grandiose and well-designed as Platinum's usual output, but part of that is because they have to stay faithful to the look of the series rather than going for their own look.

Anyways, I'm not expecting their usual quality from this title, obviously, but for what it is, it was never supposed to be. As a low-priced XBLA and PSN game, though, it can still be fun.

At any rate, I'm going by the notion that Platinum has never put out a single bad game since their inception. Anarchy Reigns is generally considered to be their weakest game, and even that game is just considered to be mediocre at worst.

[Foggle]

You do realize that it's a download only game, not a fully-priced retail game, right?

This isn't really an excuse. There are a lot of amazing cheap download-only games: Mighty Switch Force, Mega Man 9, Hotline Miami, Mark of the Ninja, Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon, Rochard, Super Meat Boy, Cave Story (this one was even free on PC), Shadow Complex, Noitu Love 2, Shank, Ratchet & Clank: Quest For Booty (in America), the list goes on.

It doesn't have as big of a budget as their usual games (not that those even have very big budgets to begin with), and is meant to be a smaller game that's only a couple of hours long and isn't as content heavy as a full-priced game.

I wouldn't say that it looks generic. I mean, can you tell me a game that looks just like it? The closest that I can think of is Anarchy Reigns, which as I said, was from the same director, so it's no surprise. As for the general look of the game, it doesn't look as grandiose and well-designed as Platinum's usual output, but part of that is because they have to stay faithful to the look of the series rather than going for their own look.

It looks like pretty much any other licensed beat 'em up out there, such as the Young Justice game (though that one makes Korra look like God Hand), the non-fighter Naruto games, that one PS2 Batman game, etc. The gameplay I watched was about 20 minutes of sloppy fight mechanics, linear brown corridors, and the exact same enemy copy-pasted tens of times. Like I said, maybe it gets better later on, but the combat looks about as interesting as stomping generic mooks in Anarchy Reigns, which got old to me after five minutes unless I was testing out combos on them for MP.

At any rate, I'm going by the notion that Platinum has never put out a single bad game since their inception. Anarchy Reigns is generally considered to be their weakest game, and even that game is just considered to be mediocre at worst.

They have not, but that doesn't mean they're incapable. Anarchy Reigns at least has something it excels at (multiplayer), even if the campaign is mediocre by most accounts.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

This isn't really an excuse. There are a lot of amazing cheap download-only games: Mighty Switch Force, Mega Man 9, Hotline Miami, Mark of the Ninja, Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon, Rochard, Super Meat Boy, Cave Story (this one was even free on PC), Shadow Complex, Noitu Love 2, Shank, Ratchet & Clank: Quest For Booty (in America), the list goes on.

I didn't mean it was an excuse. I was referring to the production values of the game since you were commenting on how it didn't look like a Platinum made game. None of those games that you mentioned had big production values either.

It looks like pretty much any other licensed beat 'em up out there, such as the Young Justice game (though that one makes Korra look like God Hand)

How? How do they look similar? I just looked up some of Young Justice's gameplay and they look nothing alike. It's like you're saying things just for the sake of arguing. How does anything look like this game's bending mechanics? Give me specific examples.

the non-fighter Naruto games, that one PS2 Batman game, etc.

Seriously, dude? Have you actually played or even watched any gameplay videos. Mechanically, those games look nothing alike. This game doesn't even involve any physical combat. It's all bending powers. You're just saying it looks exactly the same as those for the sake of arguing. For the record I've even played some of those PS2/XBOX Batman games. Saying that those look the same is like saying that Ninja Gaiden looks like Devil May Cry. Even if they are on the same general level of quality, they most certainly don't look similar at all unless you have absolutely no experience with melee-style combat games at all.

The gameplay I watched was about 20 minutes of sloppy fight mechanics

How can you say they are sloppy when you haven't actually played the game for yourself? Going by that logic, Anarchy Reigns looks just as messy, but the actual mechanics are solid. It's a bit premature to say that the mechanics itself will be sloppy when you haven't even tried a demo or anything. Going by looks is one thing, but you can't actually knock something that you haven't even tried yet when it comes to how the gameplay is (as in responsive controls and actually understanding how the combat system even works).

linear brown corridors

I agree that the environments look boring, but honestly....I feel that way about most Platinum games, so it doesn't bother me as much. Hell, even God Hand had extremely linear and boxy corridors. It seems kind of hypocritical to knock this game for it.

and the exact same enemy copy-pasted tens of times.

Based on 10+ minutes of footage? Yeah, because that speaks for the entire game. Granted that, maybe it might not be that many enemies, but once again, it wouldn't be the first Platinum game that is guilty of this. Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance barely had any enemy variety outside of its boss fights, either.

Like I said, maybe it gets better later on, but the combat looks about as interesting as stomping generic mooks in Anarchy Reigns, which got old to me after five minutes unless I was testing out combos on them for MP.

Once again, looks are completely different from actually playing a game. I'm not doubting that this will be far inferior to the usual Platinum quality, myself, but that's more based on how they were constrained to a much shorter development time with this game and how they have to make this one more casual to cater to fans of the series who aren't hardcore gamers. That doesn't mean that I think that they will be bad mechanics. Metal Gear Rising also had much simpler and more shallow mechanics than Bayonetta in order to be simplistic enough for MGS fans who wanted to play it but weren't that into hack n' slash games. That said, it still had plenty of nuance for people who knew where to find it. Once again, can you name me a single Platinum Games title that has had completely lackluster mechanics? The stuff you are complaining about just based on looks applies to other PG titles as well. For instance, TW101 looks like an absolute mess if you don't understand what's actually happening on screen. It doesn't mean that the game is mechanically bad. It's just a game that's meant to be played more than to be watched. It's the same with AR and MGRR. With AR I'm still experiencing it, but with MGRR, I honestly found that the combat looked like utter shit before I actually played it and learned the mechanics.

They have not, but that doesn't mean they're incapable. Anarchy Reigns at least has something it excels at (multiplayer), even if the campaign is mediocre by most accounts.

Sure they are perfectly capable of putting out a bad game, any developer is. I'm simply stating that their track record proves that, even in the worst case scenarios, they know what they are doing, so I can always trust them to at least make a game that's mechanically sound and has some level of nuance for people who want more out of a game than just button mashing.

Will Korra be shit? Perhaps. But I find it incredibly premature to just say that an entire game will be garbage based on only 10-15 minutes of gameplay footage released for it, especially when you haven't even touched a demo or anything and tried actually playing it and seeing how it controls. If this game does turn out to be bad, it'd most likely be due to time constraints, but even MGRR had time constraints and Platinum still managed to work a decent game out of it.

And for the record, it wouldn't be the first time that you were wrong about a Platinum Game. I still remember when you said that Bayonetta looked like shit.

[Foggle]

Looks like we must have seen different parts of the game. There were no bending powers involved the portion of the game I watched; I guess it was from before you unlock them, since I don't like watching mid-late game content in fear of spoilers. It was all intensely boring physical combat with minimal encounter or level design. It absolutely looked just like the games I mentioned.

Also, God Hand may not have great level design, but it has interesting environments at times, great pacing, and excellent encounter design. Throwing the same enemy at you five times over and over in copy-pasted corridors is not good encounter design. It is exactly like every other licensed beat 'em up ever.

The game might get better. Sounds like you think it does. I will definitely be buying it to support Platinum, so we'll see. Just saying that what I saw of the game looked like generic fodder.

I didn't mean it was an excuse. I was referring to the production values of the game since you were commenting on how it didn't look like a Platinum made game. None of those games that you mentioned had big production values either.

But I wasn't talking about production values. I was talking about fun.

And for the record, it wouldn't be the first time that you were wrong about a Platinum Game. I still remember when you said that Bayonetta looked like shit.

I said it looked sexist. I was wrong. I also said the combat was hard to follow in the demo before I played the full game and got used to it. Most people seem to agree with this.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Looks like we must have seen different parts of the game. There were no bending powers involved the portion of the game I watched; I guess it was from before you unlock them, since I don't like watching mid-late game content in fear of spoilers. It was all intensely boring physical combat with minimal encounter or level design. It absolutely looked just like the games I mentioned.

Can you link me to these videos? And when you say physical combat, do you mean like actual punches and kicks connecting to human flesh? I mean, the game, like the show, features martial arts moves, but stuff like air, flames, lighting, water, earth, metal, and so on would be manipulated by those movements. In this case, the game features the martial-arts style moves but also has the bending powers coincide with them, so when Korra does a certain punch or kick, something like air or fire will spurt out and attack the enemy. I literally haven't seen anything else when it comes to the combat, so I'm not sure where you just saw raw martial-arts style combat in any of the gameplay footage. That actually is impossible since Nickelodeon has a strict policy of not allowing any "physical" violence on the show, being that it's aimed at kids, even though it mostly appeals to an older demographic of teens and adults.

Also, God Hand may not have great level design, but it has interesting environments at times, great pacing, and excellent encounter design.

Gee, I didn't see that in the 10-minutes of gameplay that I watched. Perhaps it comes later on in the game....seewhatIdidthere

Throwing the same enemy at you five times over and over in copy-pasted corridors is not good encounter design. It is exactly like every other licensed beat 'em up ever.

Once again, based on 10-minutes of gameplay footage. And furthermore, no, that doesn't make it exactly like every other beat 'em 'up out there if the mechanics are completely different.

The game might get better. Sounds like you think it does.

Actually, you were missing my point. I was skeptical of the game as well. I just don't presume to think of it as a piece of shit before actually playing it, and not even based on reviews, because both have proven to be deceptive in the past. I'm saying that I trust Platinum enough as a developer to give the game a chance, which is the entire point that I've been trying to make. I also made the very fair point that many, many great games look like shit until you actually play them. Anarchy Reigns, various Suda games, Deadly Premonition, God Hand (which I honestly thought looked like a generic beat 'em up until you vouched for it and told me it was great), and the list keeps going on.

But I wasn't talking about production values. I was talking about fun.

More than half of those games that you mentioned don't look like fun to me just based on looks alone. I honestly thought that Hotline Miami looked like a shoddy Freeware game until TS17 did a guide for it and said it was good.

I said it looked sexist. I was wrong.

You specifically said that Bayonetta looked stupid.

I also said the combat was hard to follow in the demo before I played the full game and got used to it. Most people seem to agree with this.

It's kind of funny how you mention this yet don't acknowledge that it goes with my point of how looks don't always mean bad gameplay mechanics. In fact, to give you a specific example:

Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance looked like a button masher with frequent annoying QTEs that came on at random before I actually played it. There is absolutely no what that you could know that most of the QTEs were things that you could physically set up and control for yourself, at will, by understanding how the mechanics worked, unless you played the game and learned how to do that. You also wouldn't understand the parry system without playing it. By just watching it, I thought it was a generic blocking feature, and didn't think much of it. I never expected that it would actually be something more skillful and one of the more fun aspects of the game's combat system. Certain things that don't look impressive or even look really stupid at first glance will look completely different once you understand how to actually use those mechanics, and the ones that require skill will even be satisfying to see once you master them. The bottom line is that I can't judge a game until I play it.

And I'm not making Korra out to be some sleeper hit or something, so get that notion out of your head. I simply think that it's silly to say that it's so "disheartening" to see this product come out of Platinum when you haven't even tried it. And even then, it honestly doesn't do a Platinum Games title enough justice to just play a demo. I really didn't like the Bayonetta demo, and I had so many problems with MGRR on my first playthrough, and it wasn't until my 2nd time through it that I really started to truly begin to understand and appreciate its design. So for that reason, I won't say that Korra is shit until I actually play enough of it to judge whether or not that's really true.

[Foggle]

Can you link me to these videos?

It was a stream.

And when you say physical combat, do you mean like actual punches and kicks connecting to human flesh?

Yes.

I mean, the game, like the show, features martial arts moves, but stuff like air, flames, lighting, water, earth, metal, and so on would be manipulated by those movements. In this case, the game features the martial-arts style moves but also has the bending powers coincide with them, so when Korra does a certain punch or kick, something like air or fire will spurt out and attack the enemy. I literally haven't seen anything else when it comes to the combat, so I'm not sure where you just saw raw martial-arts style combat in any of the gameplay footage. That actually is impossible since Nickelodeon has a strict policy of not allowing any "physical" violence on the show, being that it's aimed at kids, even though it mostly appeals to an older demographic of teens and adults.

It's the beginning of the game and they aren't unlocked yet I'm guessing. Unless the bending powers are completely meaningless and have no visual or audio cues, but from what I've heard that's not true.

Gee, I didn't see that in the 10-minutes of gameplay that I watched. Perhaps it comes later on in the game....seewhatIdidthere

Except the literal first level of God Hand has like three-four different enemy types, a semi-open environment, real encounter design, and multiple combat options open to the player. All of this can be seen in videos, even ones made by bad players.

Once again, based on 10-minutes of gameplay footage. And furthermore, no, that doesn't make it exactly like every other beat 'em 'up out there if the mechanics are completely different.

It was 20 minutes.

I also made the very fair point that many, many great games look like shit until you actually play them. Anarchy Reigns, various Suda games, Deadly Premonition, God Hand (which I honestly thought looked like a generic beat 'em up until you vouched for it and told me it was great), and the list keeps going on.

I actually thought all of those games looked good just from early gameplay by inexperienced players except for DP. I don't have high standards for games.

More than half of those games that you mentioned don't look like fun to me just based on looks alone. I honestly thought that Hotline Miami looked like a shoddy Freeware game until TS17 did a guide for it and said it was good.

And all of them looked fun to me immediately.

You specifically said that Bayonetta looks stupid.

Stupid because I thought it looked sexist and over the top in a bad way.

I don't know what to tell you, man. Bayonetta 1 aside, I've been able to tell that I would enjoy every single Clover/Platinum game so far just by watching footage of their first levels or playing demos. Korra didn't do that for me. And shit, dude, I even thought Drakengard 3 looked fun from gameplay videos. That title is the definition of lazy game design in all categories. I have some of the lowest standards for games imaginable. It's actually very rare that a game looks boring to me. I'm sorry for not watching more than 20 minutes of footage, but quite frankly, it rarely takes more than that for me to know if I'll like something or not; especially something from Platinum. Five minutes of Wonderful 101 gameplay changed me from a detractor into a fan, and my problems with Bayonetta were more aesthetic than anything else. I think every Clover/Platinum game to date has been immediately excellent from the first level all the way to the end (except for AR, where it was clear that the meat of the game was in the MP), so I assumed that Korra would be the same. Sounds like it isn't.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Except the literal first level of God Hand has like three-four different enemy types, a semi-open environment, real encounter design, and multiple combat options open to the player. All of this can be seen in videos, even ones made by bad players.

The first level is boxy as hell, has enemies that don't look like they behave any different other than just looking different, and as for multiple combat options, Korra has 4 different bending styles in all of the videos that I've seen.

I actually thought all of those games looked good just from early gameplay by inexperienced players except for DP. I don't have high standards for games.

Eh, I just thought that they looked uninteresting to watch, and I couldn't get a grasp for how well they would have actually played based on looking at them.

And all of them looked fun to me immediately.

Some of those games didn't look fun to me at all. Perhaps I should have just decide not to ever try them based on that impression alone.

I don't know what to tell you, man. Bayonetta 1 aside, I've been able to tell that I would enjoy every single Clover/Platinum game so far just by watching footage of their first levels or playing demos. Korra didn't do that for me. And shit, dude, I even thought Drakengard 3 looked fun from gameplay videos. That title is the definition of lazy game design in all categories. I have some of the lowest standards for games imaginable. It's actually very rare that a game looks boring to me. I'm sorry for not watching more than 20 minutes of footage, but quite frankly, it rarely takes more than that for me to know if I'll like something or not; especially something from Platinum. Five minutes of Wonderful 101 gameplay changed me from a detractor into a fan, and my problems with Bayonetta were more aesthetic than anything else. I think every Clover/Platinum game to date has been immediately excellent from the first level all the way to the end (except for AR, where it was clear that the meat of the game was in the MP), so I assumed that Korra would be the same. Sounds like it isn't.

I wasn't impressed by most of those games at first glance, and I wasn't impressed by Korra either, but since I don't judge things based on just looks, it didn't really phase me since I figured that I'd try the game out for myself. But, whatever, you don't have to play the game, but you also don't have to be so "disheartened" by it, either. It's not like your favorite developer pulled a Team Ninja and went from excellent action game developers to the biggest joke in the industry through repeated fails. Don't complain to me about that until you get a Ninja Gaiden 3 equivalent with Bayonetta, and then have the company outsource their most iconic series to a terrible third party Western developer to give it a Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z equivalent. This not one of Platinum's bigger and more hyped up releases, anyways, and at least they have Bayonetta 2 to their name this month as well, if Korra turns out to be garbage. All I was saying was that I figured I'd give the game a try since it was from that developer. I acknowledged that it could be shit, but you always seem to forget that point and associate it with me defending the game, when all I'm pointing out is that I don't want to prejudge a game from a proven developer like Platinum just based on looks alone. I never actually said that it would or wouldn't be a piece of shit, but that I wouldn't make that call until I had enough time with the game to judge it.

At any rate, I'm done arguing about this. If you've already decided that the game is a flaming pile, than just avoid it. No need to force yourself to play a game that you know for sure that you won't like just to support a company that quite frankly doesn't even get that much support with its better games, as it is. As for me, I think I'll at least try a demo or something, and listen to the opinions of a few gamers who's opinions I trust. If all of that points to it being shit, then I just won't buy the full product. If it's at least decent, I'll give it a shot, though.

[gunswordfist]

i have gotten very far on mother 3. i am on the floor of the 7th magypsy.

[Foggle]

Dude, I don't even know why my opinion offended you so much. I didn't even say the game looked shitty, I said it looked like "generic licensed fodder," but "better than the Young Justice game." All that means is I thought what I watched looked like a mediocre video game based on a cartoon.

I also said "hopefully it gets better in the later levels," meaning that I was still willing to give it a chance, either by playing the game (which I'm going to) or watching more footage in the future. These are my initial impressions. Lots of people make forum posts about games after only playing/watching the first level or a demo of a game.

I also said it was "a bit disheartening," which is far from calling it the equivalent of Ninja Gaiden 3. I am a little disappointed that something which doesn't immediately grab my attention and appears to have such lazy early game design was made by favorite developer. That's it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I don't thing that it's lazy as much as it is rushed. Anyways, I anticipate that critics will most certainly rip it to shreds, but like I said, I'll just see what PG fans and maybe even Korra fans think of it. It'll probably be far inferior to PG's usual products, but it still might be worth experiencing in the same way that something a game like Genji is worth a playthrough.

Also, I wasn't offended by anything. I was just a bit frustrated that you seemed to be mistaking what I was trying to say in that one post I responded to, where you made it seem like I was vouching for the game, which I wasn't. I don't know if it's really good or mediocre or crap. I just meant that I still wanted to try it despite what it looked like from just watching. I don't know how I can be anymore clear than that.

Anyways, like I said, I'm not going to bother arguing about this, anymore.

[Spark Of Spirit]

All Platinum games look stupid.

I thought that was part of their image? Stupid fun.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I just played through the first 2 chapters of Max Payne 3 today. It's still too early in the game for me to really judge it, but for what it's worth, I like it so far. While I miss the comic boom style cutscenes, Rockstar's script seems to have a good understanding of how to ham of Max's dialogue to just the right amount, without completely undermining the serious and more dramatic elements of the game's story. It's nowhere near as interesting as a story from Remedy, IMO, but for what it is, I'd say that it's far better than what you'd get out of most action games.

I also like how the game feels like a modern Max Payne game. It has all of the staples of the older game, but just adapted for modern gamers to enjoy as well. You have to take cover, so you can't play it exactly like the old games, but it's not a Gears of War clone by any stretch, either, as you have to move around and use the environment to your advantage just like in the old games.

The enemy AI is also impressive since I wasn't really expecting much in this regard. They effectively use cover, sometimes try to flank you, and in many cases will move around to better vantage points while you are stuck hiding from them in order to reload your weapon or just take cover from their fire.

About the only thing that I don't like so far is that annoying double-vision effect that comes up throughout most of the cutscenes. I know that it's supposed to represent Max's drunken state of mind, but it's just really gimmicky and is more distracting than anything else. That said,it's just a minor gripe, and the gameplay has been solid and fun so far, with just the right amount of challenge.

Out of the 3 games that I got, this one definitely gives off the best first impressions. I don't think that I'll end up liking it as much as the first 2 games, but as the third part of the trilogy, it's still a good game up to this point, and seems to be a worthy enough entry in the series.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

All Platinum games look stupid.

I thought that was part of their image? Stupid fun.

Pretty much. They are a video game developer who just love making video games. Trying to be logical or impressive just goes out the window with them. They just try to make games that are fun.

Granted that, when it comes to the stupid part, that would probably apply well enough to their default difficulty settings, but they do have a respectable level of depth and nuance to their games on the harder difficulty settings.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I figured out why HOD is so boring and COTM is so good.

HOD was Iga's first Castlevania as a team leader, basically this is the team that made all the portable Castlevanias. This was their first proper effort, and, boy, does it show. COTM was made by Konami's A-Team portable division who made things like Operation C, Metal Gear: Ghost Babel, Castlevania: Belmont's Revenge, and so on. It was also originally meant to be a Game Boy Color game. Basically, this team had a lot of experience with Konami's properties and their portable games were usually top shelf.

I couldn't figure out why they were so different before, but now I see why that is.

I just beat my fourth or fifth boss in HOD, and, wow, are they brain dead easy. Also, most of the rooms are just so boring with almost nothing to do. I'm glad they improved in later games, because this game is really not doing it for me.