Marvel Live Action

[Avaitor]

I'm starting to think that Netflix is trying to get as much as they can out of these shows before Disney's streaming service comes, in case they find a way to get Marvel out of their contract.

I agree about Iron Fist season 2- it's in just about every regard a better show, but it also lost a bit of the (admittedly dumb) fun that made the first season not an entire slog to sit through. It was a humorless drag that even with solid fight scenes (but I'm really ready to call any fight scene that isn't trying to recreate the staircase scene way back in Daredevil S1 at least somewhat entertaining at this point) made it hard to watch more than an episode or two at a time. And apparently it's the first of these shows to be cancelled, which I say no loss to.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Iron Fist has been canned. I guess this means we're getting more Danny in the next season of Luke Cage.

[Foggle]

Say what you want about the movies, but at least the film division of Marvel knows how to make the properties that they adapt build off of each other and make the shared Universe concept all the more enticing. When it comes to the shows, for as much praise as we initially gave them, it's clear that they worked far better as stand-alone affairs. The shared Universe aspect doesn't feel properly implemented at all, and honestly becomes more cumbersome as these series' continue. It's just more "stuff" rather than interconnecting pieces that cleverly work together to make for something even grander on the whole.

Totally agree. I loved the first seasons of Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage, but I didn't particularly enjoy DD season 2 (outside of the first three episodes, which were amazing) and couldn't even make it through Defenders or Iron Fist season 1. I honestly have no interest in watching the Punisher series or the second seasons of Jessica and Luke, which is really weird to me because I was all in on the Marvel Netflix stuff at first. I think the main thing keeping me from wanting to watch these is that they feel way too long. Daredevil season 1 was a little bloated at times but benefited a lot from its length because it had exceptional development for both Matt and Fisk as characters. Season 2 had no business being as long as it was imo, and Jessica Jones season 1 started spinning its wheels at the 2/3 point because it felt like the writers were ready to end the story but execs told them it absolutely had to be 13 episodes long. I didn't dislike the second half of Luke Cage season 1 nearly as much as many people did but it really should have been like 10 episodes total and kept Cottonmouth as the villain the whole time.

The thing is that you can read an entire TPB in like 30-45 minutes (or an hour if you're slow as shit like me) and I think superhero stories do really well with that kind of fast pacing. The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon moved a mile a minute but it didn't feel rushed and the characters managed to develop a lot over the course of those 26 22-minute episodes (shorter than the run time of a single Netflix season!). Spider-Man 2 has a really satisfying story that packs in plenty of emotional and fun moments AND manages to make Dr. Octopus an interesting, sympathetic character - all in a little over two hours. And obviously people love the MCU movies because they keep making bank. I'm not sure why Marvel feels that their "street level" heroes need to have their stories adapted via molasses-slow prestige dramas that go out of their way to avoid even uttering the name "Captain America" as if the writers are embarrassed to be working with a superhero IP.

[Dr. Insomniac]

I wouldn't say Marvel Netflix has gone completely off the rails yet. While Season 2 of Jessica Jones felt aimless, Season 2 of Luke Cage was a step up from the first season. It made up for how lacking Diamondback was by bringing in Bushmaster, along with gripping dialogue scenes between Mariah and Nightshade and the one with Shades and Comanche. There was some baggage that could have been cut, but I think the Luke Cage showrunners are doing better than the others.

Also, I guess with Disney announcing their streaming service will have MCU shows, ones that actually have movie characters like Wanda and Loki, it'll be interesting to see the MCU shows compete with each other.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Foggle: Yeah, the biggest issue with these shows is the pacing. Hell, even the good seasons suffer to an extent from being padded out. Though, since you brought it up, I actually really liked The Punisher. It feels very stand-alone and tells a complete and engaging story that has a beginning, middle, and end and doesn't even do any sequel baiting like most of these shows tend to do. Frank Castle goes through a pretty interesting character arc and becomes a far more multi-dimensional and nuanced person than the grim-dark killing machine that he started out as. The reviews for this season were mixed, but I actually fall on the side of people who really loved it. It does still suffer from those typical pacing issues to an extent, and is far from perfect even beyond that, but it's honestly my favorite of these shows to have come out since Daredevil and Jessica Jones's first seasons.

[Foggle]

Your posts do make me feel better about Luke Cage season 2 and The Punisher. I'll probably at least check both of those out sometime. Hopefully Daredevil season 3 will be really good too. What was so bad about Jessica Jones season 2, by the way? I'm morbidly curious but I don't feel like dedicating the time to watch it if it's awful despite loving the first season.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I don't know that I'd call it awful, myself. I just found it to be a very boring and tedious affair, and I absolutely couldn't stand a certain character who happened to be a major focus of the season.

[Foggle]

I don't know that I'd call it awful, myself. I just found it to be a very boring and tedious affair, and I absolutely couldn't stand a certain character who happened to be a major focus of the season.

Which character is it? I remember season 1 had one really terrible character but I'm pretty sure she died at the end of it. I remember liking everyone else.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

It's a new character introduced in this season, but I didn't say who to avoid spoilers. If you don't care, though, then it's:

Spoiler

Jessica's mother.

[close]

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Also, I guess with Disney announcing their streaming service will have MCU shows, ones that actually have movie characters like Wanda and Loki, it'll be interesting to see the MCU shows compete with each other.

Based on this, I want a Loki mini-series based on his story arc from Journey into Mstery. There's even a basis for this since in both the comics and movie Universes, he died during a big crossover event, which means that he can be reborn much like he was in the comics. In the case of the show, if for some reason they can't get Tom Hiddleston to agree to do it (most likely for cost reasons), then they have an already built-in excuse within the context of the Universe to replace him with a younger actor with equally great comedic chops (though, I don't want Hiddleston to be replaced, but I'm just assuming that the possibility is there). You'd have to replace Hela, though, since I doubt that Cate Blanchett would ever be willing to reprise that role for a show. There would also be a basis to replace the actors for most supporting Asgardian characters (or pretty much anyone aside from Thor himself) if they used bits of Straczynski's run to explain how that happened.

I'd also like a Hawkeye mini-series based on Matt Fraction's run.

[Peanutbutter]

Luke Cage joins his comic partner Iron Fist in the Cancellation column.


https://www.cnet.com/news/netflix-cancels-marvels-luke-cage/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0b&linkId=58469612


Was this due to bad viewership numbers, or were both series canceled because they're doing Heroes for Hire after all?

[Avaitor]

Heroes for Hire may not be out of the question, but I'm still not expecting Netflix and Marvel's partnership to last that much longer.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, I've been marathoning my way through Daredevil Season 3 today.

I've made it no secret that I've been thoroughly disappointed with the Marvel Netflix output since the latter half of Daredevil Season 2, even though there are things that I've liked here and there in each show (and again, The Punisher was an exception to the rule). However, despite all of this, I was still very excited for Daredevil Season 3 since it's heavily inspired by the Born Again story-line, one of my favorite comic book stories that I've ever read, personally.

So far, whereas the other shows have been a slog for me and it's been hard to watch more than a single episode per sitting, I've just gone through seven episodes straight of Daredevil's latest season, and I'm loving every minute of it. It's not really my bias, either, since despite loving the story that serves as the main influence for this season, it's still at best a very loose adaptation of that source material. That said, something about the decisions that they made going into this season are really clicking with me in a strong way. They completely ditched the convoluted stuff with Elektra and The Hand from Season 2 and The Defenders, and instead went back to basics focusing on the conflict between Daredevil and Wilson Fisk, and the show is that much better for it. However, while it's still too early to say, I'm also liking this even better than season one as, despite being about the same length, I'm not feeling the same pacing issues that tend to plague most of these shows.

The plot is kept simple and there are very few scenes so far that feel like obvious filler or padding to me. Additionally, I really love how they've handled Bullseye so far. My only real knowledge of him from the comics comes from Miller's Daredevil run, so I'm not all that up to speed on other interpretations of the character, but much like the rest of this show, his character here seems to be a very loose adaptation of his comic book counterpart, but regardless, I absolutely love what they've done with this character. His backstory is an interesting parallel to Matt's in regard to how they both felt abandoned growing up, yet made vastly different life choices and walked down very different paths in response to that feeling. It really makes him an excellent foil for Matt/Daredevil, which while that's supposed to be The Kingpin's role, is necessary here since of course Fisk is confined for most of the season so far. Also, it gives a great excuse for a great combat-based rivalry between the two as relative equals, since while Fisk could take on Daredevil just fine on his own, you aren't really going to get well-choreographed fights from his side of the equation. And on that end, the way the action is filmed here really does remind me of how good this show is at doing action. This is especially apparent after the choppy editing and over-use of quick-cuts present in Iron Fist.

Also, I'm really liking how "most" of the side characters are being handled here compared to previous seasons (as well as most Marvel Netflix shows in general). I say most because there is one new supporting character in particular who kind of annoys me, but otherwise the returning cast is handled very well in terms of the writing. I've made it no secret that I was rather irritated how nagging and oppressive Foggy was to Matt in Season 2, for example, and I still stand by that, as I don't feel that his reasons for good enough justification for acting the way that he did. However, Season 3 fixes a lot of that for me by showing him wanting to be a more supportive friend regardless of whether he's ticked off at Matt or not, since he also understands the importance of the fact that Matt is saving innocent lives. Likewise, even characters opposed to Matt or Daredevil tend to have much better reasons and clearer motivations for how they align themselves than in the preceding season.

So, yeah, overall this season has been a pleasant return to form for me, and I can't wait to binge through the rest of it tomorrow.

[Foggle]

I'm shocked Jessica Jones got renewed and Luke Cage didn't. I assume they will probably relaunch both it and Iron Fist together as Heroes For Hire with the Cage showrunner, but who knows.

And good to hear that Daredevil season 3 is an improvement!

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, I ended up finishing Daredevil season three in just two days.

I don't normally do this, especially when something is still fresh in my mind, but I'm going to go ahead and say that this is my personal favorite season of any live-action superhero show ever. It manages to get almost everything right to such a high degree that it even makes season one look more flawed in retrospect (and that's not a knock against season one as much as it is a praise of this one). It's sort of like the DMC3 to season one's DMC1 in that way. Going back to the roots of the original while improving upon it in just about every conceivable way. I'd say that as far as pacing goes, while all Netflix Marvel seasons drag at points, this is the one that came the closest to justifying its 13-episode run for me, and if there's any part of it that dragged, it was the beginning couple of episodes (and even those were still good, IMO). That said, episode four and on were just so tightly-written and paced. There's one major flashback episode in the back-half of the season that could also serve as a detractor in that it halts the momentum of the show up to that point, but at the same time it's sort of like what Stick did in season one, so I don't mind it all that much.

This doesn't change my mind about the Netflix Marvel shows steadily declining in quality as they have gone on, but this is a very pleasant exception to the rule. I wouldn't really care if every other Marvel Netflix series got canceled (even The Punisher, which I personally really liked, was stand-alone enough to not really need a sequel season), but this one is still great enough to deserve to keep going for at least one or two more seasons, IMO. There's enough good source material to serve as inspiration for future stories that could be on par with what we've seen so far, but I definitely wouldn't want it to go past five seasons and end up feeling as tired and predictable as every other superhero TV series still going on today (not including Legion, as I still haven't seen its second season).