Hunter X Hunter (Original + Remake)

Started by Dr. Ensatsu-ken, January 18, 2011, 11:46:06 PM

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Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: Dreamer2 on June 21, 2016, 01:37:25 AMDid two episodes tonight and I really enjoyed them. It was really cool seeing Killua overcome his brother's influence and then pull out that thing from his head. And then he took care of that annoying Chimera Ant. Good episode for Killua. Oh yeah Palm's nuts. Like really nuts.

I've always loved that scene, and I find it to be very symbolic of Killua finally breaking free from his family's legacy. Since the beginning, his entire character arc was about choosing his own path in life, despite being raised to be an assassin. Even if he didn't want to be one, he still very much was a Zoldyck in nature. His father may have let him go, but as he said at the end of that arc, Killua is his son and would ultimately realize his true nature. And for a time that was true. While he was off on adventures with Gon, his way of thinking and characteristic nature was still very definitively that of a Zoldyck. In that regard, he wasn't truly free yet. When he finally removes that implant, it not only symbolizes him breaking away from Illumi's grasp, but also that of his entire family. I love character arcs like this, and that's a big reason for why Killua is one of my favorite Shonen protagonists.

QuoteI'm also happy that Knuckle and the rest of the Hunters are starting to grow on me. I didn't care for them much at first, but I'm interested to see how they all do against the royal guard. Plus, Gon coming face to face with Kite was well done. Good stuff so far.

Yeah, the supporting characters of the Chimera Ant arc were really boring during the first third of it, but they really grow into their own after that, and the final battle is so intense because you really come to care about them a lot more by that point. Knuckle in particular has one of the best fights in the series and it's made more intense since you don't know if he's going to make it out of that battle alive or not, seeing as how HXH is not shy about killing off members of its supporting cast (though, sometimes to a fault, admittedly).

And I love how Togashi turns Gon's naive, idealistic nature on its head in this arc. He thought: "Everything will be alright! Kite won'the die!" And now look what happened. Now he's convinced that he can save Kite, but as Knuckle hints at with his comment, Gon may need to face reality sooner or later.

Dreamer2

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 21, 2016, 12:12:01 PM

I've always loved that scene, and I find it to be very symbolic of Killua finally breaking free from his family's legacy. Since the beginning, his entire character arc was about choosing his own path in life, despite being raised to be an assassin. Even if he didn't want to be one, he still very much was a Zoldyck in nature. His father may have let him go, but as he said at the end of that arc, Killua is his son and would ultimately realize his true nature. And for a time that was true. While he was off on adventures with Gon, his way of thinking and characteristic nature was still very definitively that of a Zoldyck. In that regard, he wasn't truly free yet. When he finally removes that implant, it not only symbolizes him breaking away from Illumi's grasp, but also that of his entire family. I love character arcs like this, and that's a big reason for why Killua is one of my favorite Shonen protagonists.

Killua really is awesome. He's been one of my favorites since really early in the show. Especially when they started showing that he was basically the second main character. His interactions with Gon have always been pretty fun. But, they definitely seem to be doing some great stuff with him. I really hope we see more of the Zoldyck family, since I think there's a lot of potential with them.

Well I did get to see Alluka today. Plus some of the other Phantom Troupe members. Too bad they were missing some of my favorites. These two episodes kind of disappointed me a little bit. They weren't terrible, but a little boring. It was cool seeing some of their powers expanded on, but the problem lied with the villains. These Chimera Ants just weren't interesting, including the "Queen". But, I haven't found most of the Chimera Ants to be all that interesting. I'm still hopeful for the main four villains, but I'm not sure how soon they're going to get involved in the action.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

That wasn't Alluka with the Chimera Ants. That was Kalluto....who I just realized is also Killua's "brother" who crossdresses as a girl. I kind of forgot about that character, TBH. :sweat:

Alluka isn't introduced until after the Chimera Ant arc. But I guess Alluka isn't that unique after all. Killua's family seems to have a thing for males who are internally females, apparently. :lol:

Dreamer2

Guess that's what happens when I don't pay attention to character's names. I'd heard about Alluka, so I just assumed that's who this was. I'll be happy to see more Zoldyck family stuff after this arc.

Dreamer2

#439
Episode 116. Wow. That was something.

Gon was crazy in this episode. I mean he didn't even care at all that Komugi was pretty much dying. I know he doesn't know who she is, but still. But, Gon was definitely out of control and I totally felt bad for Killua. But, really really good episode. And I really can't wait to see what happens next for them.

I'm been moving semi quickly through this arc, and I do enjoy it, but it has some issues. Some of these lower level Chimera Ants still don't interest me much. Like the wolf or Cheetu. I'm surprised he's still alive. But, I'm interested in Netero and Meruem's fight and whatever happens between Gon and Pitou.

I'm also happy they didn't kill off Komugi here, I was concerned. Her and Meruem have been one of the best parts of this arc.

Also, happy to see Killua's Grandpa show up. I really like the Zoldyck family.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

#440
Quote from: Dreamer2 on June 25, 2016, 09:59:41 PMEpisode 116. Wow. That was something.

Gon was crazy in this episode. I mean he didn't even care at all that Komugi was pretty much dying. I know he doesn't know who she is, but still. But, Gon was definitely out of control and I totally felt bad for Killua. But, really really good episode. And I really can't wait to see what happens next for them.

One thing that I like about Togashi's writing in general is that he's masterful at taking very common shonen tropes, running with them for a while, and them twisting them in unexpected directions. In the previous arcs of this series Gon was certainly a very standard shonen protagonist, but in this case it was completely intentional as Togashi was clearly using him as more of a baseline character to show you how much he contrasted with the other characters in the series, or rather, how much they contrasted with a very "normal" sort of shonen hero. In a sense, what makes Hunter X Hunter rather odd as a series, and different from its contemporaries, is that rather than the story and character development unfolding due to the main character serving as the catalyst to progress forward, as is usually the case, Gon is instead more of a surrogate character who's point of view we experience the story through. However, he himself is rather unimportant to the world which he inhabits in the grand scheme of things. Togashi is clearly more interested in exploring different kinds of genres and themes in this story rather than in seeing Gon reach his goal of meeting his father. That's why that aspect of the story feels like more of an afterthought and takes a back seat to everything else going on. What I really like, though, is that it does feel rather believable for someone as young and inexperienced as Gon to usually play a low-level role to much tougher and far more seasoned characters in the story, so while we do follow him as the main character, his encounters are all the more interesting because you are never sure if he will win a particular scenario or not. When the story doesn't absolutely hinge on the main character prevailing in any given instance, the outcome becomes much less predictable, and that's what I admire about what Togashi has done with Gon.

However, in this arc he clearly got bored with Gon being a static protagonist, so he did finally decide to develop him a little bit. What makes this particular character arc so fascinating, though, is that Togashi essentially punishes Gon for his naive an idealistic personality leading to this point in the story. Up until the Chimera Ant arc, Gon managed to get by on his wit and talent, but also relied heavily on having powerful friends and allies to help him out along the way. They were certainly pitted against overwhelming odds at times, but often more times than not a combination of strategy with a surprising amount of luck managed to see Gon and his friends out safely of each major encounter (or at least with their lives intact). However, if the previous enemies which they faced could be equated to something along the lines of charging in against a well-armed militia with a disadvantaged group carrying less sophisticated weaponry, facing the Chimera Ants so unprepared would be like doing that same thing except now the militia also has nuclear warheads at their disposal. The point being that Gon seemed to believe that everything would be OK and work out like normal, but instead he has been smacked in the face with a heavy dose of reality. Kite is dead, and they may be facing an unwinnable situation. Having to continually deal with the high levels of stress and guilt that he has had to bear for so long up until now, it's not that surprising that Gon finally snapped.

What I find particularly brilliant is that Gon, a pure-hearted and well-natured kid at the start of this arc has started acting very villainous in the name of doing something that, while supposedly good, is really just coming from selfish desires which he wants to fulfill. In that regard, maybe Togashi is saying that he has been a more flawed character than we realize. This is, after all, similar to a villain from Togashi's earlier manga, Yu Yu Hakusho. In that manga, Shinobu Sensui was a very idealistic youth who saw everything in Black and White, but ended up having his mind twisted when he was faced with the realization that a good chunk of the people he was protecting were total scumbags, whereas the enemies that he blindly believed were all one-dimensionally evil were not so simple as he had initially perceived. In that regard, I always kind of saw that as a bit of a critique on how the notion of an overly-idealistic hero doesn't work when faced with real-world logic. What Gon is going through in this arc sort of has that same vibe to me. Meanwhile, Meruem, while still clearly the villain here, seems a lot less out of control than Gon does right now, doesn't he? Of course, Meruem believes that he's essentially saving the world when that couldn't be further from the truth, but he is still doing something out of his own self-interest. So, in a weird way Meruem, the main villain of this arc, is displaying more qualities of a heroic character than our actual main hero of Hunter X Hunter, who is acting a lot more like a villain right now. I love Reverse Parallel character arcs like that in fiction.

QuoteI'm been moving semi quickly through this arc, and I do enjoy it, but it has some issues. Some of these lower level Chimera Ants still don't interest me much. Like the wolf or Cheetu. I'm surprised he's still alive. But, I'm interested in Netero and Meruem's fight and whatever happens between Gon and Pitou.

For as much as I like about this arc, I also have quite a few problems with it as well. I can't stand when people treat it as perfect. It's absolutely fine to like or even love something and still find fault with it. Hell, I don't believe that you can truly love something unless you are also able to acknowledge its flaws, and this arc definitely has plenty of them. I do agree that some of the extra characters and fights can feel a bit extraneous at times, and unnecessary to the overall plot.

Having said that, one of my personal main criticisms of this arc is how Togashi handled the narrative in the last third of it. I think that it's a rather interesting and unique idea to have so much take place in such a short period of time, and for the action to slow down to show just how much can happen and go wrong with a plan in a matter literal minutes, all the while taking episodes worth of material to cover. So when the narrator explains where characters are and what their objective is in a certain situation, I can understand that. Although, I say that it works better in manga form than in anime, which I see as a medium that should rely less so on dialogue and more so on visuals. What I draw a lot of issue with, though, is when the narrator also constantly explains what characters are feeling, and what emotions they are going through at any given time. Those things should speak for themselves through the story, their facial expressions, and subtle and nuanced visual hints by utilizing the advantage of the artwork and animation. When I see writing like that, it cheapens many big and emotional moments for the characters, and makes their development during these segments feel less sincere. Basically, I feel like Togashi didn't really need to spoon-feed us everything during this part of the arc, and I have no idea why he felt the need to.

QuoteI'm also happy they didn't kill off Komugi here, I was concerned. Her and Meruem have been one of the best parts of this arc.

:thumbup:

QuoteAlso, happy to see Killua's Grandpa show up. I really like the Zoldyck family.

Then you'll probably love the Chairman Election arc. :sly:

Spark Of Spirit

Wolfen was actually one of my favorite Chimera Ants.

And that's saying something because I only liked about 5 of them.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

#442
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 26, 2016, 09:29:51 PMWolfen was actually one of my favorite Chimera Ants.

And that's saying something because I only liked about 5 of them.

It's Werefin....[/nitpick] :>

He gets some really good development towards the end of the arc, but he felt a bit extraneous in the earlier portions of it.

As for the Chimera Ants, I myself liked:

Meruem
Youpi
Meleoron
Colt
Ikalgo
Werefin

And....

Spoiler
Palm
[close]

Most of the rest didn't really leave much of an impression on me, though.

Dreamer2

#443
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 25, 2016, 11:09:58 PM
Then you'll probably love the Chairman Election arc. :sly:

So, then all that arc needs is Leorio, Kurapika, and Hisoka. Seriously its been like 60 episodes since either Leorio or Kurapika have had any importance. I also assumed Hisoka was going to show up, since he's been in every arc besides the Zoldyck family arc, and that one was really short. But, I guess he's not going to.

But, yeah most of the Ants are really boring or annoying. At least today they finally got rid of Cheetu. Showing how unimportant and useless he was, he was ki!led off by a character who had absolutely no importance in this arc at all. But, so far Werefin hasn't done anything to interest me so far. I do really like Ikalgo and Meleoron, though.

Also, today I really noticed what Dr. Ensatsu-ken was talking about with narrator. He wouldn't shut up at all and it was getting seriously annoying. I noticed it a little bit yesterday, but a lot today.

Knuckle vs Youpi was ok, but it felt like it was really dragging on. But, then Killua showed up at the end, so hopefully that'll be interesting.

One thing that I will say, is that I really don't know how this whole arc is going to handle some of the big situations and how the whole thing will finish. Which is good.

Spark Of Spirit

Quote from: Dreamer2 on June 26, 2016, 10:33:05 PM
So, then all that arc needs is Leorio, Kurapika, and Hisoka. Seriously its been like 60 episodes since either Leorio or Kurapika have had any importance.
You think that's bad? Manga readers went without seeing them for around a decade during this arc.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dreamer2

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 26, 2016, 11:01:38 PM
You think that's bad? Manga readers went without seeing them for around a decade during this arc.

So, the hiatuses caused this arc to last that long? That's brutal. I'm not too familiar with the hiatuses, but its because of health reasons right?

Spark Of Spirit

Quote from: Dreamer2 on June 26, 2016, 11:15:23 PM
Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on June 26, 2016, 11:01:38 PM
You think that's bad? Manga readers went without seeing them for around a decade during this arc.

So, the hiatuses caused this arc to last that long? That's brutal. I'm not too familiar with the hiatuses, but its because of health reasons right?
Yes, the Chimera Ant arc is the longest arc in the manga both in sheer length of the story and in how long it took Togashi to write it between hiatuses. Togashi apparently has back problems, and they were at the worst at the time.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

As for the hiatuses, this post that I made a few months ago pretty much explains the logic behind them. Some were due to legitimate health problems, but not all of them.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on March 22, 2016, 11:54:35 PMWhile we're on the subject of YYH's rushed ending, here is a translation of an old article of an interview with Togashi in which he clearly explains why he stopped. Working on Yu Yu Hakusho so abruptly: https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/2ga6as/togashis_long_written_piece_found_in_the_yyh/

In particular, this piece of information explains it the best:

QuoteIt saddens me to say this, but I had explored every possible direction for the YYH characters that I could in the context of a professional publication. All I could do at this point was to start deconstructing the characters, or go on repeating the same storylines over and over until the readers got bored. My attempts to deconstruct the characters were, of course, turned down by Jump. I didn't have the strength, physically and mentally, to keep doing the same thing over and over.

So I went ahead and did what I had always wanted to do: "If I ever manage to have a long serialization in Jump, I will end it on my own terms." I knew that Jump dropped a manga after 10 weeks if the readers' surveys proved it to be unpopular, and I knew this when I started working for them. This system proved encouraging for me, and I learned a lot by being aware of readers reactions. But I ended up wanting to draw manga for myself, without thinking about anyone's reactions. I don't believe that anything I came up with on this premise will live up to Jump's standards, so I will not try.

In conclusion: I ended YYH because of my own selfishness. I'm sorry.

Regardless of whether you agree with his mentality or not, it clearly shows Togashi's talent and skill as a writer to understand when his story and characters are at risk of becoming stale, and I for one would have loved to see his deconstruction of the main characters had the editorial staff accepted his pitch.

Unfortunately, they turned it down, and Togashi decided that he'd rather have the series end abruptly (and horribly, in terms of a lack of care and quality), than drag it out for several more years of bland material. I kind of think it's cool that someone would be willing to do that for a successful manga in a weekly serialization as high-selling and hard to get into as Jump Comics. Essentially, Togashi cared less about making money and more about writing a story with characters that he was invested in. However, since he lost interest in the YYH cast as they were, and wasn't given the freedom of creativity to explore them in unique and different ways, he said "fuck it" and basically told the editorial staff to go eat a dick by not even trying anymore. If he's not allowed to write a story with the best of his ability, then he won't even try at all. It's either writing with all of your passion, or not giving two shits. There's no room for half-heartedness, which is how I interpret what he said.

The interview also explains why he is prone to taking so many breaks, and this was long before Hunter X Hunter was ever even conceptualized in his head. Basically, he says that he wants to have a life, and this was before he even had a family, but now that he has a wife and two kids, you can probably understand even more that he doesn't want to devote all of his time to drawing.

While I disagree with his methods of taking long breaks (I mean, he could at least try and publish one chapter a month if he wanted more time for himself and his family), it's honestly kind of bad-ass for him to have been the only mangaka in history to have stood up to the most notoriously ferocious editorial staff for a manga publication magazine in Japan (at the height of its popularity, too!!!! This was during Jump's Golden Age, after all)....and come out the winner of the conflict.

I relly recommend reading that whole statement in the link. It's a very interesting piece to get into Togashi's head.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: Dreamer2 on June 26, 2016, 10:33:05 PMSo, then all that arc needs is Leorio, Kurapika, and Hisoka. Seriously its been like 60 episodes since either Leorio or Kurapika have had any importance.

Spoiler
Man, it looks more and more like the next arc was pretty much made for you. :D
[close]

Actually, as for Kurapika and Leorio being off-screen for so long, while I did miss those characters myself during the Greed Island and Chimera Ant arcs, I don't fault Togashi for deciding not to include them. Common shonen tropes and formulas tell us that all of the main supporting characters should be there at all times. However, there are times when certain characters just don't suit or have a reason to take part in a certain story arc being told. In this case, Kurapika and Leorio's goals are very important to their characters. It makes sense that Leorio would want to be off pursuing his path to becoming a doctor unless his friends desperately needed him. And in the Chimera Ant arc, while Gon and Killua did desperately need their friends, it was made abundantly clear that the Chimera Ant invasion caused government and military forces to try and quarantine off that entire continent to outsiders, so it'd make sense that low-level Hunters like Leorio and Kurapika couldn't gain access in. But as for Kurapika, putting that aside, it also makes sense that his priorities would be toward hunting down and gathering the rest of the eyes of his clan that had been sold to various different buyers. The bottom line being that there was no reason for Leorio or Kurapika to get involved initially, and when the situation turned into a crisis, it was too late for them to get involved. In fact, Gon and Killua would have outright been sent away, but they managed to get on the good side of the higher-level Hunters involved in the conflict, which is why they were allowed to be a part of the plan.

QuoteBut, yeah most of the Ants are really boring or annoying. At least today they finally got rid of Cheetu. Showing how unimportant and useless he was, he was ki!led off by a character who had absolutely no importance in this arc at all. But, so far Werefin hasn't done anything to interest me so far. I do really like Ikalgo and Meleoron, though.

Like I said, Werefin's development strangely comes when the arc is almost over. As for the less important ants, though, I'd argue that in all fairness, most of them were phased out by the half-way point of the arc, and in the last third only a few of the useless ones have much screen presence.

QuoteKnuckle vs Youpi was ok, but it felt like it was really dragging on. But, then Killua showed up at the end, so hopefully that'll be interesting.

I love that fight, but more so in the manga. What I like about it is the sense of desperation since it's clear that Knuckle and Meleoron could die at any moment, and all the while Youpi has some interesting character development during the conflict. In the anime it tends to drag on longer than it should, though.

Dreamer2

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on June 27, 2016, 12:24:50 AM

Spoiler
Man, it looks more and more like the next arc was pretty much made for you. :D
[close]

My interest level for the next arc increases with each comment you make. ;D And its short, so coming off this super long arc, it'll feel nice.

QuoteActually, as for Kurapika and Leorio being off-screen for so long, while I did miss those characters myself during the Greed Island and Chimera Ant arcs, I don't fault Togashi for deciding not to include them. Common shonen tropes and formulas tell us that all of the main supporting characters should be there at all times. However, there are times when certain characters just don't suit or have a reason to take part in a certain story arc being told. In this case, Kurapika and Leorio's goals are very important to their characters. It makes sense that Leorio would want to be off pursuing his path to becoming a doctor unless his friends desperately needed him. And in the Chimera Ant arc, while Gon and Killua did desperately need their friends, it was made abundantly clear that the Chimera Ant invasion caused government and military forces to try and quarantine off that entire continent to outsiders, so it'd make sense that low-level Hunters like Leorio and Kurapika couldn't gain access in. But as for Kurapika, putting that aside, it also makes sense that his priorities would be toward hunting down and gathering the rest of the eyes of his clan that had been sold to various different buyers. The bottom line being that there was no reason for Leorio or Kurapika to get involved initially, and when the situation turned into a crisis, it was too late for them to get involved. In fact, Gon and Killua would have outright been sent away, but they managed to get on the good side of the higher-level Hunters involved in the conflict, which is why they were allowed to be a part of the plan.

Yeah, it makes sense why they're not involved with Gon and Killua, although I would've liked to see them in this arc. Maybe even something like the Phantom Troupe got. A random episode or two where they deal with some Chimera Ants. Now I'm wondering why the Phantom Troupe got those two episodes a while back. Unless they're going to show up again, but I doubt it.