Yoshihiro Togashi

Started by Dr. Ensatsu-ken, February 05, 2011, 11:35:44 PM

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Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: Desensitized on September 20, 2011, 10:27:29 PM
No, I didn't like them because I don't like characters that appear out of nowhere and are more powerful than established villains and heroes without a good explanation.

The Chimera ants are hybrids of different creatures, and naturally acquire all of their strengths. The Chimera that were born from the queen having consumed nen users and combined with the traits of other animals as well as the level of intelligence of humans made them naturally stronger, with the royal guards being the strongest of the bunch. How was that not a good enough explanation. That's the whole concept behind the Chimera Ants that they talked about at the beginning of the arc in the first place. That's the strength of their species.

QuoteI mean, even low level grunts were more powerful than most Nen users, and that just rubbed me wrong.

This is untrue. Even mid-tier level nen users could defeat them quite easily, and after Gon and Killua got more training they were able to dispatch them easily as well. This is of course in reference to the "lower level grunts" that you were referring to.

QuoteIt would have helped had they had actual personality, but they were totally boring. Youpi was fun to hate at times (but he didn't really do a whole lot outside of that awesome fight), Pouf's scheming was fun (but he needed something else to me)... And you already know I dislike Pitou totally for being irritating on top of having no personality.

Once again, I respectfully disagree. They "did" develop personalities. Yeah, they were 1-dimensional for most of the arc in their blind loyalty to Meruem but during the second half of the arc during the attack from the Hunters things changed. The main problem was how Komugi totally altered the King's perception of life and himself, and they feared that he would start sympathizing with humans and started showing worry and desperation. Pufu secretly started doing things behind Meruem's back based on what "he" thought was best for Meruem's sake (which is important because he was finally thinking for himself instead of just following what his king said), and he even managed to convince Yupi to do so. Also, Pitou started showing mixed emotions when she was ordered by Meruem to heal Komugi, and then when Gon was ready to fight her and didn't care about letting her finish her duty to the king, which caused her to have even more mixed emotions. That's personality. I'm not saying that its likeable (and as I said, they are intentionally written to be unlikeable characters), but you can't argue that they were intentionally written as 1-dimensional lackeys for Togashi to develop throughout the arc, and he did a good job of that.

You can't just ignore the fact that they did develop just because you hate them. I can understand that type of thing isn't for you, though, but I personally find it intriguing to have villains like that. I'm talking about the tragic type who are purposely written as unsympathetic and in a sense mindless in their devotion, but are still interesting all the same just to analyze in terms of their growth. They were never fully 3-dimensional characters, but they weren't necessarily cardboard by the end of the arc, either, which is interesting considering how paper-thin they were when they first appeared.

QuoteThat said, as a whole I did enjoy the arc. It had a lot of great ideas, went on far too long, and had a lot of great moments. But somehow I doubt Togashi will ever do an arc like this again (for better or worse) so at the very least we can savor how unique it was.

I certainly think that, if nothing else, this arc will be very interesting to look back on years down the road. Its strange because it was written over such a long period of time, but I'd like to see how the whole entire thing holds up as a uniform whole arc if I were to look back on it another 10 years from now (assuming that I was still reading manga by that point in time of my life).

Spark Of Spirit

Yeah, I know that was the thing with the ants was their ability to grow. I dunno, I guess it didn't seem believable to me until a specific point in the story. But as I said, most of the first part of that arc I've mostly forgotten because of how much murder death kill took the attention away from everything else.

And yes, the guard do have personalities, I just didn't feel they were very strong or elaborated on very much compared to even the lower rank soldiers or Meruem. I'm not saying they're mindless drones (even if I seem to be coming off that way), just that their personalities for me were probably the least defined I've seen from Togashi for a villain. Not liking them is only part of it, I don't like Leo but I thought he was a really good villain and character. I'd say I'd read it again, but I really don't think I can at this point. I'll probably just wait for the anime to adapt it and hope they manage to smooth it all over.

I'm expecting something really good for the next arc, though. Togashi kind of blew through the finale fast after his hiatus, so he must have some idea of what to do next.

Short of him having Killua team with Knuckle and Leorio (the arc I want  ;)), I just can't imagine what is next.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

If nothing else, I can at least always be sure that Togashi will never be out of interesting ideas. I'd argue that ever since the Chapter Black arc of YYH, he has always brought interesting ideas to the table in his work (including GI, which was bland in execution but still and interesting "idea" in terms of the whole game scenario).

I just hope that with this next arc, Togashi can get back down to nailing the perfect balance of good pacing, action, and story with the overall high level of quality that he was able to execute with the Chapter Black arc of YYH and the York Shin City arc of HXH. I feel that he could have done that with the Chimera arc had he stayed more in tune with the series and stopped taking 1+ year long breaks after every 10-20 chapters or so, but while the arc as a whole was an interesting read its far from his best, and that's pretty much that. I really hope that he can now stay focused and deliver something truly memorable and above all entertaining. I have faith that he still has the skill and talent as a mangaka to pull that off, but the real question is whether the has the devotion to his work to keep things going without taking anymore damn breaks.

Like I said, I feel that his abrupt ending to the Chimera arc was a good decision on his part as it really needed to end. Now he just needs to get the series back on track by making more good decisions in terms of bringing back old favorite characters and introducing interesting new concepts into the story.

Also, at the very least, no matter what I can still always safely say that whatever Togashi has to put out will still be a million times more interesting than what people like Kubo and Matsuena (among other mangaka) are putting out. As someone who used to like series like Bleach and HSDK, both of those manga are at all-time lows right now and I just kind of find it funny that even at its worst, a series like HXH is still far more interesting than what series of those types have on offer (yet for some reason both of those manga are still way more popular than this one....though I guess you CAN actually partly blame Togashi for that).

Spark Of Spirit

Yeah, even though I had issues with the arc, it was never really dull to read throughout the story, which is quite impressive considering how unwieldy the whole thing was.

Short of Bakuman and Enigma, it is probably the most interesting thing in Jump right now (sad that its the only interesting battle manga next to One Piece, though) and I hope with the coming arc that he can further send the uninspired Bleach-shonen down the rankings and show us all what he's made of again.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

I'd say that One Piece is a bit more consistent (to me the only major low-point in the series was Skypiea, which to be fair the series made up for with Enies Lobby which was the first arc to surpass Alabasta), and the current arc is nearing its climax so its obviously more exciting at the moment, but I think Hunter X Hunter has the advantage of being more unique and at its best can really trump One Piece (though to me it was only at its absolute best during York Shin City, so far). Either way, though, both are good battle manga and are basically the ONLY good battle manga that I'm currently reading and even aware of, Jump or otherwise.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

So, as I said I'm re-reading the Chimera arc, but this time I'm reading the actual manga volumes with all of the redone artwork by Togashi. I wasn't expecting much, but WOW! This is redone from start to finish. Every panel has been practically re-drawn from scratch and the improvements from the original chapter releases are astounding. I mean, when I read this back a few years ago, I had to read prints from what was published in Jump Magazine when the series was in weekly serialization. Most of it was horrendous and it baffled me how the editors and Jump found such horribly done and sloppy artwork to be acceptable to run in their magazine (its really a testament to how good of a story-teller Togashi is since that quality alone is what kept the series alive). I'm really glad that he took the time and care to re-draw so many chapters from scratch (I suppose he had to have done SOMETHING useful during all of his time on hiatus, after all). Later on I'll post some comparison pictures if I can find them online, just to show you the tremendous amount of difference between the weekly releases and the redone manga volumes.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

And with this week's chapter the Chimera Ant arc is finally, officially over. All loose ends have been completely tied up. Now it looks like before the next major arc starts, there'll be some stuff about the next chairman to be elected by the Hunter's association. To be honest, though, I'm really only interested in seeing what Killua is up to, right now. Hopefully Togashi gets back to him pretty soon.

Spark Of Spirit

That was a good end to the arc.

Though I really hope we don't focus on these re-elections for the next arc, as I don't really care. I'd rather see what Killua is up to.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

I don't think that Togashi will put too much focus on the election, but I do think that he will touch upon it since it may become an important plot point later. Since I've been re-reading the Chimera arc, I noticed that Morau hinted that there have been certain corrupt individuals within the Hunter's organization who have been looking to take Netero's spot as Chairman for years, and now that he's dead they have the perfect opportunity to do that. Perhaps that may lead to a scandal of sorts in a later arc in the series.

Either way, though, I'm much more interested to see if Togashi can find a good way to write Leorio and Kurapika back into the story. Its been a long-ass time sine we've last see them; even taking all of Togashi's hiatus time out of the picture, we still haven't seen them since the beginning of the Greed Island arc. Now would be the perfect time to put them back into the story, especially since Togashi has pretty much temporarily written Gon out of the story for the time being (we need some other main characters besides just Killua to move the story along).

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

So, I've been re-reading the Yu Yu Hakusho manga. I'm almost done with the Dark Tournament arc (the manga goes by pretty quick). I still feel like the DT and CB arcs of YYH were when Togashi's writing was at his best. That and the York Shin City arc of Hunter X Hunter are the perfect examples of when he's in his prime. Certain parts of the Chimera Ant arc were also amazingly good, but that arc fluctuated too much quality to me for my liking.

Either way, though, I'd still say that Togashi is my favorite writer for shonen manga, specifically because almost all of his work is like a middle finger to the trope-heavy nature of other mainstream shonen series, and Togashi manages to pull that off without ever seeming self-indulgent of full of himself. At some points he does go overboard, though, but I'd be hard-pressed to find another shonen mangaka with more interesting work than his, personally.

Spark Of Spirit

The manga stays good up until literally the end of Chapter Black when he almost totally loses complete interest in the story and characters. I'm still confused as to why he didn't just attempt to wrap it up there.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Once again, I think that the most logical reason is because either his editor and/or Shonen Jump wouldn't just let him. From the little research I've done, and from reading Bakuman (but I did honestly research this one a little bit on my own :P ), I do know that mangaka aren't free-lance for SJ. They have to sign a contract, and that basically forces them to lose their rights to have a say on when they want to end their story. It ends whenever the editor-in-chief gives it the OK to do so, or in most cases the axe. In this case I'm willing to bet that Togashi wanted to end the series with CB, but of course since it was actually a good series during CB and presumably good series were popular for actually being good back then in Japan, the higher-ups at SJ probably wouldn't just let him end it like that while it was on its A game, so then Togashi gave them the middle finger by not giving a shit for the rest of the series' run, and thus it ended the way that it did. Yeah, that's all just speculation, but that seems like the most likely scenario to me.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

#72
So, somebody linked me to this old article, recently, and now I finally have some semblance of a reason for why Yu Yu Hakusho ended as abruptly and poorly as it did, and why Togashi takes so many breaks from Hunter X Hunter. Apparently, the policy of WSJ at the time was to force the authors to continue a popular series no matter what it took, and in the process they royally pissed Togashi off as he was feeling overworked at the time. Thus, he ended up drastically rushing YYH with the final arc and giving it a godawful last few chapters for good measure. In other words, its clear that he knew they were bad and he did it on purpose as a big "fuck you" to WSJ's editorial department....and consequently the fans. :srs:

With HXH, its clear that the series has a massive popularity in Japan that still gives it a reason to exist, as each new volume release really pushes sales and makes a ton of money for Shueisha. On that note, they also won't dare drop the manga from WSJ  because they realize that Togashi quite frankly has them by the nut-sack.

Now, mind you, what I'm saying here is mainly my speculation based on the data presented to me, but it seems to make the most sense. In that regard, if the way that I perceive the situation is correct, then I can't really blame Togashi too much for YYH's ending if he was indeed being overworked. Granted that, no other mangaka used that excuse, but to be fair Togashi proved his worth with the quality of his stories and characters in the manga being higher than most of his competition. That said, if you are feeling extremely overworked, then I do feel that its reasonable to have a break in order to get yourself rested up, straightened out, and be able to prioritize your tasks better. That said, I feel like Togashi got way too abusive with his power in HXH, and now WSJ is doing the wrong thing in the opposite extreme, by letting Togashi walk all over them. That said, its not like they can really threaten him. Even if they said that they would cancel his series and wouldn't mind taking the hit in sales, its not like Togashi is necessarily in any financial crisis, from what I understand. His manga properties bring in a ton of money, and more importantly, his wife Naoko Takeuchi is the creator of Sailor Moon, which apparently still sells merchandise really well in Japan to the point that she brings in even more money than Togashi. What this means is that Togashi can pull a "fuck you" on Shonen Jump any time he wants now, but its still a despicable practice, if you ask me, considering just how hard so many other mangaka have to bust their asses just to get their series into the magazine, and how much harder they have to work just to keep it in there.

What I'm trying to say is that I can defend Togashi's actions for Yu Yu Hakusho, even if I don't like them, while I feel that he is the one who's in the wrong when it comes to HXH's serialization. At any rate, I just thought that I'd share this info and my take on it with anyone else who happens to be interested.

Spark Of Spirit

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 02, 2013, 09:42:00 PM
So, somebody linked me to this old article, recently, and now I finally have some semblance of a reason for why Yu Yu Hakusho ended as abruptly and poorly as it did, and why Togashi takes so many breaks from Hunter X Hunter. Apparently, the policy of WSJ at the time was to force the authors to continue a popular series no matter what it took, and in the process they royally pissed Togashi off as he was feeling overworked at the time. Thus, he ended up drastically rushing YYH with the final arc and giving it a godawful last few chapters for good measure. In other words, its clear that he knew they were bad and he did it on purpose as a big "fuck you" to WSJ's editorial department....and consequently the fans. :srs:

With HXH, its clear that the series has a massive popularity in Japan that still gives it a reason to exist, as each new volume release really pushes sales and makes a ton of money for Shueisha. On that note, they also won't dare drop the manga from WSJ  because they realize that Togashi quite frankly has them by the nut-sack.

Now, mind you, what I'm saying here is mainly my speculation based on the data presented to me, but it seems to make the most sense. In that regard, if the way that I perceive the situation is correct, then I can't really blame Togashi too much for YYH's ending if he was indeed being overworked. Granted that, no other mangaka used that excuse, but to be fair Togashi proved his worth with the quality of his stories and characters in the manga being higher than most of his competition. That said, if you are feeling extremely overworked, then I do feel that its reasonable to have a break in order to get yourself rested up, straightened out, and be able to prioritize your tasks better. That said, I feel like Togashi got way too abusive with his power in HXH, and now WSJ is doing the wrong thing in the opposite extreme, by letting Togashi walk all over them. That said, its not like they can really threaten him. Even if they said that they would cancel his series and wouldn't mind taking the hit in sales, its not like Togashi is necessarily in any financial crisis, from what I understand. His manga properties bring in a ton of money, and more importantly, his wife Naoki Urasawa is the creator of Sailor Moon, which apparently still sells merchandise really well in Japan to the point that she brings in even more money than Togashi. What this means is that Togashi can pull a "fuck you" on Shonen Jump any time he wants now, but its still a despicable practice, if you ask me, considering just how hard so many other mangaka have to bust their asses just to get their series into the magazine, and how much harder they have to work just to keep it in there.

What I'm trying to say is that I can defend Togashi's actions for Yu Yu Hakusho, even if I don't like them, while I feel that he is the one who's in the wrong when it comes to HXH's serialization. At any rate, I just thought that I'd share this info and my take on it with anyone else who happens to be interested.
Naoko Takeuchi.  :P

It's a shame at what happened to YYH (for many reasons), but HxH is simply not as compelling as YYH for me to sit around and wait for him to Berserk himself a paycheck. The real tragedy is the spot his manga has taken up for the last 10+ years when he has barely done anything with it himself.

If he wants spare time he can always go monthly like the Vinland Saga writer, but that guy has never even missed a deadline and the art is way better than when it was weekly. Togashi probably wouldn't want to put in the extra effort even for one chapter.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

LumRanmaYasha

Quote from: Ensatsu-ken on June 02, 2013, 09:42:00 PM
His manga properties bring in a ton of money, and more importantly, his wife Naoki Urasawa is the creator of Sailor Moon, which apparently still sells merchandise really well in Japan to the point that she brings in even more money than Togashi.

Um... I think you meant to say Naoko Takeuchi. Naoki Urasawa is the creator of Monster and 20th Century Boys...and a dude.

In any case, yeah. Togashi ending Yu Yu Hakusho in the way that he did was a selfish but still understandable "fuck you" to Shueshia, but what he's been doing with Hunter X Hunter and it's hiatus' is almost downright despicable since he's abusing his privileges and influence in order to simply be lazy and work whenever he feels like, which is disrespectful to a lot of hard-working mangaka who struggle and work hard to be successful and earn a living, and to his loyal fans who have to put up with his fancies. Still a great writer and mangaka, but it's hard to defend what he's doing with Hunter X Hunter when it's just such a selfish thing to do.