DC Animated Shows

[Dr. Insomniac]

Yeah, I remember watching a little of the other 90s Marvel shows a few years ago just to see or remember what they were like, the ones that don't have the legacy Spider-Man or X-Men do, and they remind me why BTAS and Gargoyles get so much praise when this was the competition. Like the Silver Surfer show having the ugliest CGI ever and a retrospectively unfitting Thanos voice. Or that Spider-Man Unlimited cartoon where Peter went to space to fight the High Evolutionary and his army of human-discriminating furries, and it was just as stupid as it sounds but at least the theme song was cool. The weirdest part is which characters didn't get a show, like a whole roster of Marvel series, and there's no Thor cartoon or Captain America one? Though I heard they planned to do one, and Steve was not going to be Cap in this, which just goes to show how different things were then compared to recently.

And with Fox Kids censorship being as strict as it was, it's hilarious what could've happened if other characters got a show in the 90s. Like a Punisher cartoon where Frank's only allowed to shoot lasers at robots or aliens, or a Daredevil animated series where Matt lives in Heck's Kitchen and Bullseye's completely incompetent.

And yeah, the MCU's liberties have gotten increasingly more questionable over time, and the only saving grace is at least it's not like the Sony Spider-Man Universe where Madame Web's some paramedic who has to earn being crippled and learn that great responsibility leads to great power, or Kraven being a hero who gets powers after getting bit by a radioactive lion. Besides having the same issue the 90s cartoons do in giving some characters movies but not others (why give Madame Web a movie over Black Cat?), the biggest sin there is shoving all these characters into Peter Parker shaped holes instead of being interestingly weird with their changes. Where's my Daily Bugle movie that rips off Spotlight, where Jameson and Robbie investigate systemic abuse running in New York?

[Avaitor]

I think I'm going to try Caped Crusader tonight. I haven't really been avoiding it, but my attention keeps taking me elsewhere. I don't expect it to top TAS or TBATB (which I rewatched not that long ago and still adore), but I like the concept behind it at least.

MAWS is fine, but it feels more like baby's first Superman story to me, or really Superman for weebs. I think that's why it has such a following currently, even if it's kind of dry. I'm also hit or miss on the character changes- I like the show's take on Lois and I appreciate that this Jimmy is closer to the original character as opposed to whatever the hell the Supergirl show was doing with her, but speaking of Kara, I don't love her Android 18-ification. It's a unique take, and she's cute with Jimmy, but her reveal wasn't as impactful as it should have felt.

Also surprised to see people think that S:TAS is weak sauce, when Supes is OP there, and MAWS' Kal-El keeps getting his ass handed to him. Maybe that's the intent?

[Dr. Insomniac]

Yeah, MAWS is unapologetically weeby in a way we haven't really gotten since the Teen Titans show, like shoving Reigen and Gurren Lagann robots into the show, turning Parasite into Shin Godzilla, and naming an episode "Fullmetal Scientist" (which isn't really a good pun, an alchemist is a scientist), but it lacks that spark that made TT fun to watch as a kid. That show was also shameless in ripping off anime, but the cinematography is so striking at times that I can kinda get why '03 fans want more of this and resent TTG's existence.

And I don't know if STAS detractors have even watched much of STAS since that tweet I posted called it "sexless", and for a show that aired on 90s Saturday mornings, it was coming out around the peak of Timm's horniness. That or they misremember JL episodes as part of STAS, and that's where Clark's a huge jobber and not much for romance since Lois barely appears in that show.

I think another reason is that, thanks to streaming and more... underhanded methods to read comics, it's easier than ever to compare and contrast DC adaptations of characters with the source material and other versions. Almost nobody in the late 90s had instant access to almost all of Action Comics at the tip of their fingers or be able to watch random clips of DC movies on YouTube. And the other latest Superman adaptations at the time of STAS were Quest For Peace, which we all know the reception of, and the Lois and Clark series that was all right but was limited by a 90s network TV budget.

[Avaitor]

I finally got around to watching Caped Crusader, and it's good! I was hoping for it to be, the setting looked appealing, although I almost think they didn't do enough with it. Parts of it felt a little too modern, like how openly Harley and Montoya could be out.

Still, I like that Timm rejected making a B:TAS revival and went for something different, and also restrained himself. No double ass cheeks here.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Parts of it felt a little too modern, like how openly Harley and Montoya could be out.

Yeah, the show's very Bridgerton in its societal depictions. I don't have any issue with it, but CC really wants to have its cake and eat it by having a 40s noir setting but with none of the cultural norms of a 40s noir setting.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Watching the Penguin series premiere made me think of something, neither Falcone nor Maroni show up in BTAS even though they were established characters in the comics at the time, and they otherwise pop up all the time in adaptations. Even the ones aimed at little kids like the short-lived Justice League Action cartoon. And it's not like the show's averse to the mafia because Rupert Thorne and Tony Zucco showed up. I don't know. Maybe the BTAS writers just weren't Year One fans?

Honestly, I'm a little interested how the show plays now to younger Batman fans who are used to modern characters and concepts like Damian, Stephanie Brown, the Court of Owls, Jason Todd being alive, etc. Like we're already at a point where newcomers who are used to Barry Allen as the Flash are gonna wonder why he doesn't exist at all in the DCAU, even if you explain to them the entire context. I don't want to say those series are showing their age because that gives off the wrong connotations, but I am curious how a Batman fan a generation after us raised on the movies or the Arkham games would look at them.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I suppose it depends on the particular fan in a case-by-case basis. Some people will attach to what they grew up with as gospel and reject anything that came before it which contradicts what they identified with the series and characters that they liked. Others can be more open-minded and appreciate what came before.

My Uncle who passed away a few years ago was the one who got me into superheroes, and he tended to prefer stuff from the 70's - 90's. His kids are about 10+ years younger than me, but while they probably identify more strongly with stuff from the late 2000's - early 2010's, they still love some older stuff like JLU and the 90's X-Men and Spider-Man cartoons.

I myself have had no issues getting into older comics after the fact. Like, I was introduced to Thor through AEMH, so I didn't even know who Donald Blake was, but it's not like I couldn't accept that concept of Thor having a human identity when I went back to some of his older titles.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Yeah. Despite common knowledge, I think the thing about superheroes is that they do slowly change over the years, if by cultural perception and small incremental changes than by big status quo shifts. Like how Aquaman has 2 financially successful movies now after decades of being seen as that loser on Superfriends. Or the fact that HBO's showing airing and marketing a show all about Oswald Cobblepot.

Speaking of that and Penguin, I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I don't think BTAS ever really captured Penguin the way they did for Mr. Freeze, Joker, Ra's, or Poison Ivy. Didn't dislike him or anything, and I like Paul Williams for other things like Phantom of the Paradise and Rainbow Connection, but this show's Oswald always felt like background dressing compared to the other renditions. The only episode of his I really liked was Almost Got 'Im, and that doesn't really count when most of the villains were in that. Honestly thought the 2004 cartoon's Penguin had more of a personality and charm. Hell, Gotham's Penguin too was more interesting, and I say that knowing that claiming Gotham did something better than BTAS counts as blasphemy around fan circles.

[Avaitor]

You don't like "Birds of a Feather"? It's one of the more notable failed rehabilitation episodes to me, I like how it challenges Penguin's desire to view himself as Gotham's classist villain.

[Dr. Insomniac]

It's fine, but watching it recently, I wished it went farther with twisting the knife emotionally for Penguin. Mad as a Hatter hits mostly the same beats as this one, and I prefer that for having a creepier subtext.