Dragon Ball (All Series)

[Dr. Insomniac]

This is the song they're using for the Broly movie. Not sure what I expected.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Well it is different from what you'd typically expect from Dragonball. While it's not really my kind of music, I'm still welcome to trying to change things up for this franchise as a whole. My biggest problem with Super (among many) is how safe it played things. I'm really hoping that the new Broly movie will actually take some risks for a change. I'm not holding out much hope for that, but will be impressed if it does defy my expectations in at least some ways. Again, Dragonball hasn't done that for me since Battle of Gods.

[LumRanmaYasha]

It's more of a traditional pop song, for sure. I think it fits appropriately enough - it's generally upbeat and pumpy but there's ominous and melancholic parts too, so I think it succinctly captures the emotions the film is trying to evoke in five minutes.

At this point I'm pretty stoked for the Broly movie. I'm interested in seeing what they'll do with a more sympathetic take on his character, and industry professionals and everyone's who gotten to see it early has praised the visuals up the wazoo. Even if it's more spectacle than substance, I'm totally down for a spectacle that looks as good as the trailers have promised.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Funi got Ash to play the Teletubby.

[LumRanmaYasha]

Thoughts on this year's DBcember, TeamFourStar's Top 12 Dragon Ball Fights?

For reference, their picks were:

Spoiler

12. Goku & Vegeta vs. Janemba
11. Goku vs. Jackie Chun
10. Vegeta, Gohan, & Krillin vs. Recoome
9. Goku vs. Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai)
8. Goku vs. Majin Vegeta
7. Piccolo vs. Android 17
6. Goku vs. Kid Buu
5. Goku vs. Beerus (Battle of Gods ver.)
4. Goku vs. Perfect Cell
3. Goku, Freeza, and Android 17 vs. Jiren
2. Goku vs. Piccolo Jr.
1. Goku, Gohan, Krillin, & Yajirobe vs. Vegeta

[close]

I think it's a pretty solid list. Obviously I might've shifted things around based on my own personal taste, but I can agree that all of these fights are top-notch, iconic, and good representatives of different types of Dragon Ball fights. 

As for my own top 12 favorite DB fights list, right now I'd go with this:

12. Goku, Freeza, & Android 17 vs. Jiren
11. Goku vs. Hit (Tournament of Destroyers)
10. Goku vs. Beerus (Battle of Gods)
9. Goku vs. Jackie Chun
8. Goku, Vegeta, Mr. Satan, & Majin Buu vs. Kid Buu
7. Goku vs. Ninja Murasaki
6. Goku vs. Cell
5. Goku vs. Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai)
4. Goku, Gohan, Krillin, & Piccolo vs. Freeza
3. Goku vs. King Piccolo
2. Goku, Gohan, Krillin, & Yajirobe vs. Vegeta
1. Goku vs. Piccolo Jr.

There's a lot of other great fights in the series that I love, but I went with choosing my favorite per arc in rough order in how much I enjoyed them/my emotional investment in them.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

You're number seven pick was all I needed to see. Now there's a good and proper Dragonball fan.

I'm going to be controversial here and say that the final fight with Jiren doesn't work as well for me as it does for everyone else, not because the fight itself isn't well done, but because it doesn't feel earned. Context of a fight due to build-up is just as important as the actual content, IMO, which is why I somewhat disagree with TFS criticizing the Gohan Vs. Cell fight as being too one-sided. While it is one-sided, it's entirely effective because of the build-up leading to the ultimate climax of Gohan's character arc, and is kept interesting since we finally get to see him succumb to the more violent nature of his Saiyan-heritage, which leads to negative results.

[LumRanmaYasha]

Idk, Goku and Freeza working together to take down Jiren really worked for me. There were several moments throughout the arc that built up Goku and Freeza as unlikely teammates like their scuffle at Baba's place, Freeza lending Goku energy after his first fight with Jiren, briefly interjecting into the Caulifla and Kale fight, rescuing Goku from being thrown out of the ring by Anilaza and joining the rest of the U7 team to fight against it, etc. So them working together to take out Jiren felt like a satisfying culmination of that unlikely trust and comradery they formed during the arc to me. And of course, Goku and Freeza teaming up against a common foe has so much weight behind it considering their history and Freeza's meta-status as the franchise's definitive antagonist. So it had a lot going for it on an emotional/hype level for me, and it certainly helps that the fight itself is one of the best animated and choreographed in the entire series.

As for Gohan vs. Cell, while I agree the fight is an effective emotional payoff to Gohan's character arc and exploration of his character, I do agree with TFS that the fight feels more defined by moments like Gohan going SSJ2 and the Father-Son Kamehameha rather than the combat itself, which is why I also agree that Goku vs. Cell is better as a fight because of all the interesting back-and-forths that happen in it even if it isn't as emotionally gripping.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

To Lum's point: I understand all of that, but where my stance differs from yours and TFS's is that the narrative throughline and character arcs going into a fight is what makes the fight for me. Some of the best fights I have seen are not necessarily that grandiose in scale and don't have to be evenly matched in order to be great (Date Eiji vs. Ricardo Martinez from HnI is often considered a fan favorite for this very reason). I personally disagree that Gohan Vs. Cell is only comprised of some memorable moments and the rest of the fight is forgettable since I can trace the events of the fight from beginning to end, since it reads more like an actual story than just punches and energy blasts. Even if Gohan has the upper hand, the escalating tension is still there since the flaw of his Saiyan rage prevents him from just finishing Cell off, which leaves you in anticipation since you just know that something bad is about to happen if Gohan keeps that behavior up (and of course it does).

For me personally, the Jiren fight has memorable scenes but it all lacks weight to me since the story failed to make me really care about the characters participating in that fight.

Anyways, just my two-cents on that.

[Avaitor]

I still need to see Broly before it's too late.

I'm still watching Super on Toonami (and yes, I know the movie spoils some of it- I don't care that much), and just saw this easter egg. Really cool!

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Broly is a lot of fun, and I say this as someone who has been fairly critical of Super. Toriyama managed to get a lot right this time around, and hearing that his original draft of the script would have made for a 3-hour movie, I'm honestly interested to know what else he would have gone into.

You don't need to have finished Super to follow the story, And it doesn't technically even spoil that much since it never actually tells you who won the Tournament of Power or anything like that.

I particularly love the humor in this movie. It's very classic Toriyama, with one joke in particular being such a great callback to old-school Dragon Ball.

This movie did the impossible and made me actually give a shit about Broly as a character, with a surprising amount of nuance for Dragon Ball. It also introduced some genuinely great new characters, with Cheelai being a particular standout for many, including myself. Also, Berry Blue has the potential to be my favorite Freeza henchman (woman?) ever if they utilize her like they did hear when Dragon Ball inevitably returns on the air.

After this movie, I'm genuinely interested to see the direction that the franchise moves in from here.

[Dr. Insomniac]

I particularly love the humor in this movie. It's very classic Toriyama, with one joke in particular being such a great callback to old-school Dragon Ball.

I liked they've shown a shift in Frieza's personality, and his hopes for immortality are now a thing of the past. He's still an asshole, but the events of Super have changed him. He's far more cautious, less willing to go headfirst into Goku, and didn't even raise a finger when Berryblue talked back to him. It was also interesting to note how much his desires in the movie mirror Bulma's, and how that gives an unnerving interpretation of Vegeta's relationship with both of them.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I liked they've shown a shift in Frieza's personality, and his hopes for immortality are now a thing of the past. He's still an asshole, but the events of Super have changed him.

He's easily my favorite character in Super because of his unique development as a villain. He's no longer the top dog overlord of the Dragon Ball Universe, but in a way he kind of feels like he has traces of Loki to his character, with Freeza now being more mischievous and witty in his dealings with the Saiyans and Galactic Patrol rather than just trying to take them on with brute force.

He's far more cautious, less willing to go headfirst into Goku, and didn't even raise a finger when Berryblue talked back to him.

Speaking of Berryblue, I'm liking the fan theory that she was Freeza's nanny during King Cold's reign. It'd add a pretty amusing layer to their relationship compared to Freeza's other henchmen.

It was also interesting to note how much his desires in the movie mirror Bulma's, and how that gives an unnerving interpretation of Vegeta's relationship with both of them.

I noticed that he also basically wants the same wish that Commander Red did. As for his similarities with Bulma, I do really like how Toriyama is emphasizing that both the villains and heroes of this Universe can still both be equally petty.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Heard someone theorize that the next Super movie will be a Cooler one, and I'm not sure about a series of films that remake the old DBZ movies. Because there will be a point when the well's dry, Toei runs out of fan-favorite villains, and we'd eventually get Dragon Ball Super: Slug and Dragon Ball Super: Hirudegarn.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Pretty sure this series solidified Cooler's non-canon status when he wasn't even so much as mentioned in the half-hour of Saiyan backstory that showed off King Cold passing the torch to his son Freeza to rule over his empire.

And, while they managed to take a villain I couldn't stand and actually make him the best new character that we've seen since Beerus (and yes, I'm considering him new since he's basically a completely different character than his original 90's incarnation), I wouldn't be keen to see them remake any other movie-original characters except for maybe Tapion. Really, though, one of my biggest pet-peeves with Super has been when it has relied on the nostalgia-factor of bringing back old favorites and getting far too referential of older story-lines rather than moving forward with something new. When you think about Dragon Ball's original manga run, it rarely over brought up old characters or stories and instead just moved the story forward organically with new villains and new plot-lines emerging naturally. The reference to the Red Ribbon Army in the Android saga as a major plot point was an exception to Toriyama's writing style, not the norm.

I'm actually cautiously optimistic of the new story-line going by the manga, as it has introduced a brand new villain who's powers seem to be based more in magic than in physical strength (though he's implied to be insanely powerful too). He's like a way buffer version of Babidi, and to add to the comparison he even apparently has an interest in Majin Buu for yet to be revealed reasons. He's also a planet eater apparently so he's sort of like the Galactus of the the Dragon Ball Universe in a way. It's also nice to see the role of the Galactic Patrol being expanded on in this arc. It could still easily turn to shit, but I find what I'm seeing to be very promising so far.

[Avaitor]

Oh, I got to see Broly the other night, and I really enjoyed it. The pacing was surprisingly solid, especially for the action which worked pretty well being condensed into a movie and not spread over multiple episodes. But I think my favorite thing, besides Broly getting more personality than before, is how Frieza is getting some character growth without softening him. He's worked well as a villain before, but I especially enjoyed him in the movie.

However, I think my biggest problem with it is that it wasn't great with its new female characters. Goku's mom doesn't get a chance to have personality, especially compared to Bardock, but what really bugged me was the member of Frieza's force who had a thing for Broly. She was given a lot of obvious fanservice angles, which didn't need to happen, and she didn't have much going for her character wise to begin with. But whatever, shonen has always had issues with female characters.