Hack n' Slash games

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

The DMC series was already pretty much dead with Capcom in its current state clearly not giving a fuck out of any of its popular series that aren't called Resident Evil. This game will merely just stomp all over its dead corpse (I refuse to acknowledge it as an actual DMC game, but a bad attempt at cloning a DMC game).

[gunswordfist]

The sad thing is that even though I still very unimpressed with what I've seen of the gameplay, it still looks better than what I've seen of NG3. Seriously, the direction that game is headed in is REALLY disappointing me, thanks to the new leader being completely incompetent in designing a proper hack n' slash game. At least the new DmC doesn't seem to have any QTE's....yet, at least. And on top of that at least you can still chain combos in the gameplay without being interrupted by randomized slow-down in which your blade gets needlessly stuck into an enemy.
Sorry, I'm kind of in my "NG3 is going to suck" bitching phase, now that I have had long enough to realize just what this game is already doing wrong right now.

WHAT?!

[Foggle]

The sad thing is that even though I still very unimpressed with what I've seen of the gameplay, it still looks better than what I've seen of NG3. Seriously, the direction that game is headed in is REALLY disappointing me, thanks to the new leader being completely incompetent in designing a proper hack n' slash game. At least the new DmC doesn't seem to have any QTE's....yet, at least. And on top of that at least you can still chain combos in the gameplay without being interrupted by randomized slow-down in which your blade gets needlessly stuck into an enemy.
Sorry, I'm kind of in my "NG3 is going to suck" bitching phase, now that I have had long enough to realize just what this game is already doing wrong right now.

WHAT?!

Yeah, I did a double-take when I saw that, too. What the fuck is Hayashi thinking!?

[gunswordfist]

The sad thing is that even though I still very unimpressed with what I've seen of the gameplay, it still looks better than what I've seen of NG3. Seriously, the direction that game is headed in is REALLY disappointing me, thanks to the new leader being completely incompetent in designing a proper hack n' slash game. At least the new DmC doesn't seem to have any QTE's....yet, at least. And on top of that at least you can still chain combos in the gameplay without being interrupted by randomized slow-down in which your blade gets needlessly stuck into an enemy.
Sorry, I'm kind of in my "NG3 is going to suck" bitching phase, now that I have had long enough to realize just what this game is already doing wrong right now.

WHAT?!

Yeah, I did a double-take when I saw that, too. What the fuck is Hayashi thinking!?

That's the worst shit I've ever heard.  Poor EK

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Oh, that shit's just the tip of the iceburg. You do know that Hayashi is now officially promoting Move support with NG3 now? He also confirmed that every other weapon from previous games have been removed in favor of weapons that are all just variations of the Dragon Sword....So, yeah, he killed the variety of the diverse weapon arsenals from the previous games.

At this point its no surprise to anyone that this game is going to be a piece of shit. As an NG fan who only just wanted a proper sequel to NGB after ALL THESE YEARS (I love NG2 and all, but come on, it pales in comparison to the first game)....It looks like I'll never be getting it.

[Spark Of Spirit]

There goes my hopes for a new 2D Ninja Gaiden game! If they can't even get the basics of a hack n slash game right, then what hope do I have for a 2D sidescroller?

He'd probably make those birds instantly kill you this time.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Funny that you mention that, because he in fact did the worst possible thing anyone could possibly do to an NG game and added in OHK moves for enemies and bosses in NGS2. The original version of the game for the XBOX360 was far from perfectly balanced, but at least it never deliberately caused you cheap deaths through single-hits. Even on Master Ninja mode you could take a fair amount of abuse before biting the dust. In NGS2 it became all about playing things extremely safe if you didn't want to get taken down by an unlucky hit that pretty much killed the point of you even having a health bar in the first place (this was only on Master Ninja mode, but still he killed that difficulty by making it even worse than in NG2 on the X360).

This guy clearly doesn't understand a single thing about what makes the first 2 NG games great games. For one thing, if he listened to ANY fans at all like he claimed to, he would have gone back to creating more open level designs and room for exploration like what NGB had. I'd love a Metroidvania Gaiden fully realized. The slick and fast paced action of an NG game combined with elements of exploration and interesting level design. Instead he keeps the levels linear and from the level I've seen so far in the demo, he also makes them look bland (at least the ones in NG2 looked over the top and interesting, sort of like a classic 2D action game in a 3D realm, IMO).

[Rynnec]

Funny that you mention that, because he in fact did the worst possible thing anyone could possibly do to an NG game and added in OHK moves for enemies and bosses in NGS2. The original version of the game for the XBOX360 was far from perfectly balanced, but at least it never deliberately caused you cheap deaths through single-hits. Even on Master Ninja mode you could take a fair amount of abuse before biting the dust. In NGS2 it became all about playing things extremely safe if you didn't want to get taken down by an unlucky hit that pretty much killed the point of you even having a health bar in the first place (this was only on Master Ninja mode, but still he killed that difficulty by making it even worse than in NG2 on the X360).

Damn, single hit kills in a 3D game are bogus. Are the Sigma games still worth getting though? I've played the Sigma 1 demo and enjoyed that, but how do they compare to the originals?

This guy clearly doesn't understand a single thing about what makes the first 2 NG games great games. For one thing, if he listened to ANY fans at all like he claimed to, he would have gone back to creating more open level designs and room for exploration like what NGB had. I'd love a Metroidvania Gaiden fully realized. The slick and fast paced action of an NG game combined with elements of exploration and interesting level design. Instead he keeps the levels linear and from the level I've seen so far in the demo, he also makes them look bland (at least the ones in NG2 looked over the top and interesting, sort of like a classic 2D action game in a 3D realm, IMO).

While I don't think the backgrounds in the demo look bland, I am dissapointed that you spend most of the level on the ground. City levels look a lot more interesting when your on top of really tall skyscrapers.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Damn, single hit kills in a 3D game are bogus.

Especially when the game is designed around aggressive enemies that constantly try to find every opportunity to attack you. Even though the enemy count is reduced in Sigma 2 its still reidiculous to think that one annoying grab move will give you a Game Over. That just doesn't work with the mechanics of NG2 which isn't necessarily designed for no damage runs (even if it were completely balanced). Of course, playing Sigma 2 on Master Ninja almost forces you to do a no damage run. Even in the first game in which you could do no damage runs on the highest difficulty, it still doesn't fit in with the game's mechanics, IMO. With DMC there are modes like Hell and Hell in which you die in one hit but in that game its OK since I feel that its mechanics are more supporting of that type of gameplay, especially since the enemies don't all try to attack you at once, but in NG the enemy AI is supposed to be more aggressive so anyone who gives them OHK moves clearly doesn't understand how NG is supposed to play.

Are the Sigma games still worth getting though? I've played the Sigma 1 demo and enjoyed that, but how do they compare to the originals?

The first Sigma game is fine. Its mostly a straight-up HD port of Ninja Gaiden Black from the XBOX with some additional content (though not all of it is necessarily good). Aside from having to play through the boring Rachael missions (which my only gripe with is that they can't be skipped in the main story-line....and that they are slow and boring), its a great game, but only because its basically NGB in HD. Some of the puzzles from NGB were also removed which I felt was unnecessarily, but on the plus side it is a bit faster paced if you aren't into puzzle solving breaking up some of the action (there weren't that many in the original game, anyways, so its not a big change). I think its worth giving a shot, especially since its pretty cheap and easy to find these days. It should be noted that its quite a bit different mechanically from most other hack n' slash games. It doesn't have a target lock-on feature like DMC but instead works by allowing Ryu to automatically hit the enemy closest to him and rather than featuring more fixed camera angles it gives you control of the camera (which honestly isn't as bad as some people say, IMO, if you get used to the way the game works). The game is also more about being a bit strategic with your weapon use (you can't change them on the fly like in DMC, which most people don't like but I don't mind it since the game is designed with different mechanics that support single-weapon use type of gameplay), so while you can get through the whole game just using the default weapon (the Dragon Sword), it is a lot more fun (and easier) to experiment with weapons and find which ones work best in certain situations and against certain enemies.

The first 3D NG game is my personal favorite game of all time. I can't say whether you would like it as much as something like Bayonetta which is probably a more objectively great game, but I do think you would enjoy it if you played through it, so I certainly recommend it.

As for the 2nd game, Sigma 2 is quite a bit different than NG2 on the XBOX360. Its made a lot easier on the lower difficulty settings and needlessly harder in the wrong ways on Master Ninja mode. For what its worth, it strives to be different enough from NG2 (rather than just fixing its balance issues and adding content, which is what I would have preferred) that its probably worth checking out at least through a rental. Some people really like it while others like myself aren't really very fond of it, but its certainly not a bad game or anything at its core so as long as you don't mind lowered enemy counts and blood and gore replaced with purple mist, then maybe its at least worth checking out the demo. That's all I can say for it, though. To be fair I can't really say whether you'd like NG2 or not as it has balance issues that you would need to look past to enjoy it, but for me its a great game at its core that was just unfortunate to have to be rushed into release and therefore is an unfinished game. Its till one of my personal favorite games of this generation, though.

While I don't think the backgrounds in the demo look bland, I am dissapointed that you spend most of the level on the ground. City levels look a lot more interesting when your on top of really tall skyscrapers.

Well, to clarify what I meant about the backgrounds, I don't think that they look bad graphically or anything like that, but they look way to plain. To me they look like the type of backgrounds you could just as easily find in a generic FPS game. I preferred how bizarre the environments in the older games were. They had more old-school game design to their sensitivity than any sense of realism, which is personally what I prefer. To be fair, only one level has been shown to the public so far for NG3, and there will be other stages obviously, so perhaps other parts of the game will look better, but as it stands the level design in NG3 so far looks adequate to me, but ultimately uninspired.

I was really hoping for something reminiscent of the first level of NG2 on the NES, where you were jumping on top of building-tops and the like (very much like what you mentioned, which to me is more fitting of an NG game).

[Spark Of Spirit]

When you think of Ninja Gaiden, this is the first thing you think of:






Ninja Gaiden works best to me atmospherically separate from "normal society", the appeal to me is that the games feels like all this action is happening just close enough to us, but still out of our depth, Which is why I like the "almost like the real world but skewed" design sense the games let off.

Playing on gritty streets is boring and totally lacking in the "epic" feel it gives off.

Before anyone mentions it, I don't like stage 1 of Ninja Gaiden 1 NES. I think that level is lazy as hell.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Well, I can't fault Stage 1 myself for being perfectly designed as a "getting used to the game mechanics and into the gameplay" sort of stage that it is, but it is pretty bland compared to most other NG stages. NG2 on the NES really nailed the atmosphere that is proper for an NG game, though, IMO. I also really came to appreciate NG3's (NES version, here) very technological and futuristic level design. The first 2 games from Itagaki's reboot really brought back that spirit of level design from the classic NES games. To me, trying to make a realistic looking level in an NG game is missing the whole point of the series. Its supposed to be ridiculous to have a ninja running around in a semi-futuristic world. If you take it seriously, you're making something that's intentionally fun and over the top become unintentionally bad and ludicrous in all of the wrong ways, IMO.

Stuff like this, this, this and this is what I want to see in an NG game.

I mean, fighting a fucking 4-armed Werewolf in a Roman Colosseum (a realistic setting in a very over-the-top and completely absurd situation) or a dragon composed entirely of bones in a secret underground burial ground is pretty fucking epic, IMO. Fighting weak terrorists in modern city streets who put up little fight and constantly beg for their lives and cower at the mere site of Ryu is not my idea of "exciting."

In comparison, this just looks kind of "meh" to me, personally.

[Spark Of Spirit]

The basic idea of a ninja running through open streets while blowing shit up in plain view seems very, uh... un-ninja to me. Secluded environments, and deserted structures, as well as running above the normal world or below it just out of sight makes more sense and feels Ninja Gaiden to me. Like I said, just slightly out of reach of the normal world, but not actually in it running through the open city in plain view killing mercenaries and blowing things up.

[gunswordfist]

Oh, that shit's just the tip of the iceburg. You do know that Hayashi is now officially promoting Move support with NG3 now? He also confirmed that every other weapon from previous games have been removed in favor of weapons that are all just variations of the Dragon Sword....So, yeah, he killed the variety of the diverse weapon arsenals from the previous games.

At this point its no surprise to anyone that this game is going to be a piece of shit. As an NG fan who only just wanted a proper sequel to NGB after ALL THESE YEARS (I love NG2 and all, but come on, it pales in comparison to the first game)....It looks like I'll never be getting it.

I heard you talk about the sword and shit like how Ryu will only get them in specific parts of the story but Move support is another level of  Yep, series is dead. A regular moron would have just made the game play like NG2 and threw in pointless multiplayer. Hayashi isn't a regualr moron...

[Rynnec]

Here's a few rumours about "DmC"

• There is little to no humour in the game. That part in the first trailer where Dante burns a monster with his cigarette is apparently pretty much the only example of what the devs thought was "funny".
• The new Devil Trigger (with the "old Dante" look) is never explained in-game and was put in to try and appease the fans.
• The next actual DMC game was supposed to be a prequel about Sparda. It would detail the origins of Yamato, his battle with Mundus, and how he met Eva, but the project was canned before it ever got off the ground.
• Pre order bonuses and day 1 DLC were "discussed"
• A lot of staff quit the project
• There's a new series planned if this one is successful, so we'll probably not be seeing the old Dante again
• Tameem's entire job consists of researching "underground and cool" things.
• The combat system is going to be based on Heavenly Sword's

Once again, just rumours. So we have no way of knowing if any of this is true or not. (Seriously though, Heavenly Sword? I know I haven't played the game yet, but it's combat looks boring as fuck.)

Here's something that is true though.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-17-dmc-sceptics-secretly-want-to-like-it

[gunswordfist]

Tameem Antoniades went on to tackle the issue of frame rate. The Devil May Cry prequel will run at only 30 frames per second, whereas old Devil May Cry games opted for 60FPS.

Antoniades said his game will be "locked" at 30FPS, and that the reduction allows his team to add "stuff like the world changing" - the way levels can transform dramatically during gameplay.