Comic Book Movies

[Dr. Insomniac]

I don't get it either. Scorsese's never been a blockbuster guy anyway, so anybody getting mad at his views or getting mad at people getting mad at his views should calm down.

[Dr. Insomniac]

The more I've been thinking about the movie, I've been seeing some more issues. The film heavily subscribes to the "one bad day" theory The Killing Joke gave as to why the Joker turned evil, even though the comic itself refutes that idea and treats it with disdain that a bad day can turn anyone into a crazed serial killer. It's also interesting to note that the idea of the Joker being the product of an abusive mother was previously a plot point from Gotham, as well as the director's suggestion that the Joker in this film is actually a proto-Joker who inspires the real Joker later in the line. I still thought the film was all right, but it gives very simplistic reasons why someone can turn into a psycho. Saying Arthur could have lived a happier life with less bloodshed if people were more kind to him is too much of a captain obvious message, instead of the intricate character study it was propped up as.

Besides Scorsese movies and a couple of Batman media, Joker obviously takes some cues from real life serial killers like Edmund Kemper, Ed Gein, and John Wayne Gacy. But the thing is, if you read up their biographies, there were a web of clues since their childhood they'd turn to senseless murder. It's not as simple as "Their mom didn't support them and society treated them like shit". Most criminals don't have an on switch flicked on as soon as something horrible happens to them.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

That's why I say it feels like "Baby's First Scorcese-esque Film." It understands the outline of what a Scorcese psychological drama looks like but contains almost none of the nuance. Any layers that are there are due almost entirely to Phoenix's performance than anything in the actual script. The score and cinematography help sell that aspect of the movie as well even though the writing doesn't earn it. The problem is that unlike characters like Travis from Taxi Driver or Rupert from The King of Comedy, the world surrounding Arthur is pretty clear cut black and white. While one could argue that's only because the film is told from his perspective, the issue with that defense is that the same exact thing is true of those other two films and their main characters. The difference is that they still manage to convey far more ambiguity than anything in Joker while still largely keeping their stories set firmly from their star character's point of view.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Yeah, there are too many "Oh, look how much Arthur's life sucks" moments in the movie, almost like the movie's holding a neon sign pointing at you to feel bad about Arthur. The director can say these scenes could potentially be hallucinations in Arthur's head like Zazie Beetz's character was, but I think that's a copout. You can't just say "Oh, maybe Thomas Wayne actually used his billionaire connections to falsify the adoption records and make Penny Fleck look insane. You never thought that? Hmm?", because how far does that go until you can suggest every scene in the movie's a hallucination from Arthur's viewpoint? Instead of creating ambiguity, it only implies the creator had no conviction in their scenes and throws out ideas or interpretations that really should have been in the film instead of blurted out in press interviews.

It goes back to how dumb it is to give the Joker a backstory. Despite popularizing the idea, The Killing Joke scorned the concept and preferred a multiple choice past for the Joker. Episodes of the animated series like Mad Love make fun of the theory of Joker being the product of an abusive childhood, especially telling when a show made for all ages mocks the same idea that an R-rated film sincerely embraces. Giving Joker a sympathetic backstory is like giving Hannibal Lecter or Michael Myers sympathetic backstories. And if the movie wasn't lucky enough to have Joaquin Phoenix, we likely would have gotten something like Rob Zombie's Halloween instead.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, while I'm pretty much desensitized to other filmmakers taking shots at Marvel or the genre in general at this point, I was rather amused by Crispin Glover's take that this was all current Hollywood propaganda. It's especially funny how many desperate haters want to jump on that bandwagon without realizing that Crispin Glover has a notorious history of finding propaganda in all kinds of media going back well over a decade. He literally thinks that the alien invasion from The Avengers is subliminal messaging to get people on board with America taking on foreign powers. It's actually kind of hilarious how committed he is to his "conspiracy" theories.

[Dr. Insomniac]

It's a matter of when now.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Well, since I've seen a bunch of people online do it, here's my top 10 superhero flicks of the decade:

10. Deadpool 2
9. Shazam!
8. Avengers: Infinity War
7. Guardians of the Galaxy
6. Thor: Ragnarok
5. X-Men: First Class
4. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Captain America: The First Avenger
2. Logan
1. Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse

With X-Men I flip-flopped between First Class and DOFP until re-watching both last year and deciding that First Class edges it out slightly due to Reeves being an overall better director than Singer (IMO). Still love both, though.

Likewise, Infinity War could have easily gone to Joss Whedon's The Avengers, but I found the sequel to have just a bit more re-watch value for me, personally. The first to Cap movies are the ones where I had to absolutely have both on the list.

Spider-Verse and Logan were no brainers. Shazam! really grew on me a lot since I first saw the early screening, and I've watched it three times now. It's the perfect Superhero take on a classic style family movie.

[Foggle]

Great list, though I haven't seen Shazam, Infinity War, or Ragnarok yet (I know, I know). My top 5 would be almost exactly the same but with Deadpool 2 instead of First Class. The "Super Duper Cut" on the home video release is a huge improvement over the theatrical version (which I already really liked) IMO.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I'd recommend giving Ragnarok a shot if Taika Waititi's style of humor is up your alley. Obviously humor is subjective, but it really works for me. I wouldn't even worry too much about having seen any of the previous Thor movies. Ragnarok literally makes a joke out of how disposable and inconsequential the first two movies were right from the beginning (in fact there are a number of people who hate it for that very reason).

Also, JoJo Rabbit was pretty great in that regard as well, which I also strongly recommend.

Also, Shazam! was really fun. I'd say it was the closest thing in tone that I've seen to the Raimi Spider-Man movies since that trilogy ended.

[Foggle]

I love Taika Waititi and I'm definitely gonna watch Ragnarok someday! I hope to catch JoJo Rabbit before it leaves theaters as well, and I'll get around to Shazam and the last two Avengers movies eventually too. I'm just in a weird place with movies lately and haven't been watching very many.

[Avaitor]

That's a pretty damn good list. I'm not sure what mine would look like, but my top 5 would probably have Logan (as #1, nat), the first Avengers, Black Panther, the first Guardians, and either Winter Soldier or Deadpool 2.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Based off all the casting, with Jesus from The Big Lebowski as Carmine Faldone, either the RPattz Batman movie is a Long Halloween adaptation or they're throwing random villains on the screen and hoping one will work. Guess we'll have to wait until Reeves casts somebody as Two-Face to see if that's the case.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

You know, for as good as Marvel has been about designing their movie costumes to look aesthetically practical, I've got to say that Red Guarduan looks kind of absurd in a movie with characters wearing relatively much tamer attire. I also kind of love that, though, and going by the trailer it's intentional since he seems to be played as over-the-top compared to everyone else.

[Dr. Insomniac]

He's like the bizarro counterpart of Peter from Deadpool 2.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I'm just hoping that he has an equivalent to "I can do this all day." You don't put Red Guardian in there without making a joke about how he's Captain America's Russian counterpart.