Things That Bother You About Gaming

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

No, you're not the only person. I ALWAYS utilize manual saves in games as long as they offer them. It actually kind of ticks me off that so many games these days force auto-save onto you and don't even give you the option to manually save the game. Its not too big a deal if the game has a level select system or something like that, but there are times when I just like to play bits and pieces of a game after saving it to kind of experiment with the mechanics and maybe see what the next section of the game has in store, without actually saving my progress because I don't plan to play that much and want to start fresh from the next time that I start up the game. However if I accidentally trigger a cutscene and move onto the next area the game automatically saves me at that point, so if I didn't finish exploring around a previous section or doing everything I wanted to do there, and the game didn't let me make a manual save file there and it has no level select, I'm basically screwed and have to replay the entire game up until that point to do everything I wanted to do in that section. The sad thing is that what I just described isn't that uncommon in modern games these days.

To give a good example of a game that I really liked that did this, which kind of bugged me about it, I'd have to go with Alan Wake. The game was awesome and many sections had secrets that begged for exploration in those areas, but sometimes I would accidentally trigger the next area in the game and it would lock me off from the previous section that I wanted to continue exploring while auto-saving my progress, so basically I could never go back to that section again, or at least not until much later on in the game. Like I said, I love the game, but that's something that kind of bugged me about it on a few occasions.

[Foggle]

I definitely prefer manual saving to autosaving. But I thought you guys disliked games having a quick save function (or is that just gsf)? Because the only difference between manual save and quick save is that you don't have to open a menu for the latter.

[Spark Of Spirit]

That might be gsf. I don't really have a problem with quick save. IMO, if a game has manual saving and is portable it should have quick saving in case of battery issues or something else. It doesn't really affect anything in the game, it just lets you save power.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I definitely prefer manual saving to autosaving. But I thought you guys disliked games having a quick save function (or is that just gsf)? Because the only difference between manual save and quick save is that you don't have to open a menu for the latter.

I don't mind quick-save. If its there I'll try not to abuse it if I want more challenge out of my game, but when I said manually saving I was talking more in the line of specific save points, much like the system that Ninja Gaiden and Resident Evil games use. You can manually save at any indicated save point which will also become your checkpoints between gameplay segments, but the fact that you can do it at your will makes it more convenient, to me, then just letting the game have full control on deciding where to save for you.

[gunswordfist]

I definitely prefer manual saving to autosaving. But I thought you guys disliked games having a quick save function (or is that just gsf)? Because the only difference between manual save and quick save is that you don't have to open a menu for the latter.

No no, I don't hate quick save, I just think that pretty much only games with lots of/a good amount of freedom need it. My beloved game Sweet Home has nothing but quick saving and its a game from the 80s.

[talonmalon333]

So recently I've been thinking about things that, looking back, kinda bother me in Wind Waker. I still love that game, and I always will. But I'm not totally sure if I love it quite as much as I used to.

For starters, the Wind Waker baton slows down the pacing too much. You'll be sailing on the ocean, and then to your left you'll notice something you want. So you'll have to change the direction of the wind, sail there, and then change the direction of the wind again to continue where you were going. What's worse is, in the dungeons, you have to constantly play the Song of Command to control your partners. It's just little tedious things that, had they found ways to cut corners, could've increased the enjoyment of the game overall...

And on that note, my biggest problem with the game is it's dungeons. Really, dungeons are an important part of Zelda... yet almost every dungeon in this game sucks. Especially the later ones which involve that song I mentioned above that you constantly have to keep playing. And even putting that aside, the dungeons themselves are just so dull and easy. I dread them whenever I play the game, and it just feels like a chore when I'm actually inside them.

When ranking my top five Zelda games, it goes like this...

MM>SS>TP>WW>OoT

But like I said, dungeons are incredibly important to Zelda. So can I really keep WW above OoT when it's so lacking in that category?

... Oh, and the combat in the game is just a mix between a button mashing rhythm and parrying everything you see. Not a massive flaw, but it's pretty bad that the combat got a downgrade from the N64 games, when all they had to do what take those game's systems and make them better.

[Rynnec]

I actually immesnly enjoyed WW's combat and find it to be the best one in the series. The combat in the other 3D games feel lackluster by comparison (though, Twilight Princess does sort of make up for it with the moves you learn from the wolf spirit).

The game also had the best bosses of the 3D Zelda's (next to OoT), and I'm glad you could fight them again at the endgame. I do agree with you on the Wind Baton, to some extent(Mainly, the sailing).

[Foggle]

I actually immesnly enjoyed WW's combat and find it to be the best one in the series. The combat in the other 3D games feel lackluster by comparison (though, Twilight Princess does sort of make up for it with the moves you learn from the wolf spirit).

The game also had the best bosses of the 3D Zelda's (next to OoT)

This. Alla' this.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I actually immesnly enjoyed WW's combat and find it to be the best one in the series. The combat in the other 3D games feel lackluster by comparison (though, Twilight Princess does sort of make up for it with the moves you learn from the wolf spirit).

The game also had the best bosses of the 3D Zelda's (next to OoT), and I'm glad you could fight them again at the endgame. I do agree with you on the Wind Baton, to some extent(Mainly, the sailing).

Same here.

There's just something about the scale of Wind Waker and how wide open it is that I love it. Of course sailing takes a long time, and there could (and should) have been more dungeons, but it was the one 3D Zelda where I was really engrossed from start to (well almost, due to a deleted save) finish. Everything about that game was just great.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Hey, talon, is it just me or do you change your mind about things all the time? lol

Well, everyone's welcome to their own opinion, but IMO the Wind Waker has some of the best dungeons in the Zelda series. They are as creative as in any of the other games, and to be honest I think they are MUCH better paced than the ones in Majora's Mask. Don't get me wrong, Majora's Mask has great dungeons, but they go on for WAY too long (especially considering that this is the one Zelda game in which you have a time limit to keep track of whenever you're in the middle of a dungeon and need to go back in time just to make a save, which in a dungeon isn't good for much except that you save any major items that you were carrying like a special item or a key). I quite honestly wasn't a fan of the approach of having less dungeons but which lasted a lot longer. I liked how WW had good dungeons with a decent amount of puzzles in them, but unlike some other Zelda games they never felt too long or too short, which is a problem that kind of plagues other games in the series that I play, whether it be the 2D or 3D games (usually the 2D ones feel too short and easy, and the 3D ones can sometimes feel a bit too long and drawn out at times, IMO).

Anyways, I think WW also had better gameplay than most games in the series. Sorry, but what you say about the combat is pure nostalgia talking on your part. That isn't to say that its a deep combat system or anything, but it actually did require some form of timing and you had to actually utilize blocks and counter-attacks on regular enemies quite a bit, rather than just mainly on bosses. Its not like OoT or MM had sophisticated combat systems themselves. If anything they were more derivative. Literally it was just wait for the moment to attack and then....spam your sword. That's it. There's really nothing else to it. Now, of course, this doesn't bother me because Zelda games aren't really about combat, but I just thought I'd point out that its oddly hypocritical to criticize WW's combat system as inferior to the N64 games when those games in fact were the epitomy of shallow and derivative combat among 3D action adventure games.

To be honest OoT is still my favorite game in the series because its the one that I know the best and that I have played the most, but I would say that WW is probably an objectively better made game than it (and MM, as well). I still haven't played Twilight Princes or Skyward Sword yet, so I can't comment on either of those games.

[talonmalon333]

Hey, talon, is it just me or do you change your mind about things all the time? lol

LOL. It's true.

Though it's not always changing my mind. Like, in that big RE4 post I made a few weeks ago, I firmly believe that I did always love that game, and just went through a faze where I thought I liked it less than I actually did (this isn't just a one time thing, I've done stuff like that before). But just to make myself clear, I do still love WW. Just... slightly less than before. Because even though I still have a big problem with the dungeons, I feel like they are kinda a smaller part of WW in general. That game's more focused on exploring the ocean and stuff like that. And that, I adore.

Well, everyone's welcome to their own opinion, but IMO the Wind Waker has some of the best dungeons in the Zelda series. They are as creative as in any of the other games, and to be honest I think they are MUCH better paced than the ones in Majora's Mask. Don't get me wrong, Majora's Mask has great dungeons, but they go on for WAY too long (especially considering that this is the one Zelda game in which you have a time limit to keep track of whenever you're in the middle of a dungeon and need to go back in time just to make a save, which in a dungeon isn't good for much except that you save any major items that you were carrying like a special item or a key). I quite honestly wasn't a fan of the approach of having less dungeons but which lasted a lot longer. I liked how WW had good dungeons with a decent amount of puzzles in them, but unlike some other Zelda games they never felt too long or too short, which is a problem that kind of plagues other games in the series that I play, whether it be the 2D or 3D games (usually the 2D ones feel too short and easy, and the 3D ones can sometimes feel a bit too long and drawn out at times, IMO).

That's fair. Although just so you know, I've always disliked the dungeons in WW. That part isn't just a sudden change.

Anyways, I think WW also had better gameplay than most games in the series. Sorry, but what you say about the combat is pure nostalgia talking on your part. That isn't to say that its a deep combat system or anything, but it actually did require some form of timing and you had to actually utilize blocks and counter-attacks on regular enemies quite a bit, rather than just mainly on bosses. Its not like OoT or MM had sophisticated combat systems themselves. If anything they were more derivative. Literally it was just wait for the moment to attack and then....spam your sword. That's it. There's really nothing else to it. Now, of course, this doesn't bother me because Zelda games aren't really about combat, but I just thought I'd point out that its oddly hypocritical to criticize WW's combat system as inferior to the N64 games when those games in fact were the epitomy of shallow and derivative combat among 3D action adventure games.

In my opinion though, OoT and MM's combat required more strategy though. Remember those Iron Knuckles? You can't simply just run up to 'em and hack away. However, in WW, once you you start pounding on an enemy, they are completely defenseless because of the hit recoil in that game. It might also be connected to the fact that WW decreased the difficulty in general, cause I don't think I've ever died in that game.

TP has the same fighting style as WW, but it's given more depth and is fixed up.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, Foggle's post about anime kind of reminded me about something I wanted to say about gaming for quite a while now.

To be quite blunt, modern gaming....just isn't doing it for me anymore. I mean, there are some exceptions: I liked Halo: Reach, F.E.A.R. 2, Alan Wake, Sonic Generations, and Ninja Gaiden II....And that's it. The thing is, 2 of those 3 games (Sonic and Ninja Gaiden) were much more old-school in design and ironically felt fresh compared to most of the stuff we get today. The other 3 games are just those rare exceptions I suppose.

The main problem I have is that with everything else I try, I get bored, and can never bother to finish it. In fact its getting to the point where I can't even get into most games anymore.

It all really started with Oblivion, which was my first current-gen game. For a while, I was into it....and then I found the quests to get stale and repetitive and the game just started feeling really slow. I couldn't bother to go any further in it. I had a similar experience with the first Mass Effect, a game which I was really anticipating, but it just felt so boring and sluggish that I had to force myself to finish it. I actually felt that it was almost painful to play through Assassin's Creed, and by far I feel its the worst game that I happen to actually still own (only because I couldn't sell it for more than $5, anywhere). Most other stuff I play this gen is just flat out boring. I'm starting to fail to see how some of these games are as highly praised as they are, or how they stack up to games from the previous gen.

Maybe I'm just a snob and too used to older games (which isn't entirely true since I still love games from all the way up to last gen). That said, I'm starting to realize now that what most people currently consider good games is just completely the opposite of what I look for in games.

I was really into Arkham Asylum when it first came out....and then I beat it....and then that was it. It has no replay value for me whatsoever, and the challenge maps are pitiful attempts at adding longevity to the game, because the combat and stealth mechanics are so shallow. The same goes for Arkham City. It was OK for one play through, but its just flat-out boring for me now.

I played Dead Space for a while and kind of liked it, then I got to the 6th chapter and stopped. I still haven't picked it up again because it just got so monotonous that I got tired of it all (Alan Wake was really repetitive too, but IDK, something about that game was solid enough to keep me playing it, so I guess its just the charm Remedy inexplicably adds to their games, or something to that effect).

BioShock was a great experience....and then I never felt like picking it up again. The sequel was entertaining enough, but once again, it had no replay value for me.

I'm starting to realize that a ton of shooters, action games, and RPGs from this gen just fail to be any sort of fun for me, and for the longest time I was wondering if I was just too out of the loop or if games were just becoming stale.

Then I played Resident Evil 4. It was like a wave of nostalgia of sorts, in that it was a feeling I got from a game which I hadn't gotten in a long time, and by long time I mean since Ninja Gaiden Black from last-gen. That is to say, I was actually compelled to keep playing. It was addicting. I had to keep playing and come back for more (and I still want to replay it and do a bunch more stuff in it....except college gets in the way of that). That's when I realized what that game and other games that I like had going for them (both retro and stuff from last-gen as well), and what most modern games lack for me. To be blunt, modern games are shallow. They have gorgeous visuals and great voice-acting and sound and whatnot, but their actual gameplay and their actual design honestly come off as so lazy and generic to me. Gameplay seems to become secondary to how a game looks these days. I feel like games just falsely throw extra modes in them which don't really amount to anything to make up for a lack of content. Higher difficulty settings are just a matter of switching from Normal to Hard whenever you want and all that happens is that enemies become sponges that soak up more damage and all of a sudden you can go down in just 2 hits. Also, since Gears of War, 90% of all TPS games have just cloned that formula, and now it feels like something incredibly generic. Call of Duty did the same thing for FPS games (at least on consoles).

As for Hack n' Slash games, most of them are just cheap God of War rip-offs. Every genre seems like it takes a popular game and then just falls into that game's formula. For me its just flat-out boring. The worst offender is adventure games all following the lead of Uncharted. That is to say that they are more concerned with being cinematic than actually being games.

So, to sum it all up, if I were to be brutally honest, I personally think that modern gaming in general just sucks.

Now, keep in mind that I'm only referring to the majority of popular genres in games. I don't consider old-school style platformers (even if they are new games) such as what's found on the Wii or handheld consoles, or any retro-style games of any sort to be so lacking. Its the main reason, in fact, that I really want to get a Wii, now. The XBOX360's library barely has any  value for me anymore, and aside from Yakzuza games and maybe a couple of other titles of interest, the PS3 is even worse.

Like I said, I know I'm coming off as a snob, and this is just my opinion, but this is how I honestly feel about games these days that are designed with "modern" sensibilities. I have REALLY tried my best to get into these games, but they just aren't doing it for me. Ninja Gaiden succumbing to these trends was pretty much the final straw for me. Honestly, Ninja Gaiden 3 now looks like yet another cheap God of War knock-off.

At this point I'm considering just selling off my XBOX360 and saving up some money for a Wii and a Nintendo DS. To be specific I mean the original DS, that is, since I can't currently afford a 3DS, unless I got that by itself and forgot about the Wii, which isn't happening since the Wii currently has a much bigger and stronger library of games since its much older than the 3DS. To me those are honestly the only gaming devices worth owning anymore (well that and the PC, but I'd be able to afford both of those AND a 3DS before I could afford a good PC to run games on).

[gunswordfist]

That reminds me, I need to play Bioshock, Resident Evil 4 and 5 and Dead Space 1 and 2. Thanks buddy.

Seriously, I'm very behind...including being behind on last gen games so no comment.

[Spark Of Spirit]

So, Foggle's post about anime kind of reminded me about something I wanted to say about gaming for quite a while now.

To be quite blunt, modern gaming....just isn't doing it for me anymore. I mean, there are some exceptions: I liked Halo: Reach, F.E.A.R. 2, Alan Wake, Sonic Generations, and Ninja Gaiden II....And that's it. The thing is, 2 of those 3 games (Sonic and Ninja Gaiden) were much more old-school in design and ironically felt fresh compared to most of the stuff we get today. The other 3 games are just those rare exceptions I suppose.

The main problem I have is that with everything else I try, I get bored, and can never bother to finish it. In fact its getting to the point where I can't even get into most games anymore.

It all really started with Oblivion, which was my first current-gen game. For a while, I was into it....and then I found the quests to get stale and repetitive and the game just started feeling really slow. I couldn't bother to go any further in it. I had a similar experience with the first Mass Effect, a game which I was really anticipating, but it just felt so boring and sluggish that I had to force myself to finish it. I actually felt that it was almost painful to play through Assassin's Creed, and by far I feel its the worst game that I happen to actually still own (only because I couldn't sell it for more than $5, anywhere). Most other stuff I play this gen is just flat out boring. I'm starting to fail to see how some of these games are as highly praised as they are, or how they stack up to games from the previous gen.

Maybe I'm just a snob and too used to older games (which isn't entirely true since I still love games from all the way up to last gen). That said, I'm starting to realize now that what most people currently consider good games is just completely the opposite of what I look for in games.

I was really into Arkham Asylum when it first came out....and then I beat it....and then that was it. It has no replay value for me whatsoever, and the challenge maps are pitiful attempts at adding longevity to the game, because the combat and stealth mechanics are so shallow. The same goes for Arkham City. It was OK for one play through, but its just flat-out boring for me now.

I played Dead Space for a while and kind of liked it, then I got to the 6th chapter and stopped. I still haven't picked it up again because it just got so monotonous that I got tired of it all (Alan Wake was really repetitive too, but IDK, something about that game was solid enough to keep me playing it, so I guess its just the charm Remedy inexplicably adds to their games, or something to that effect).

BioShock was a great experience....and then I never felt like picking it up again. The sequel was entertaining enough, but once again, it had no replay value for me.

I'm starting to realize that a ton of shooters, action games, and RPGs from this gen just fail to be any sort of fun for me, and for the longest time I was wondering if I was just too out of the loop or if games were just becoming stale.

Then I played Resident Evil 4. It was like a wave of nostalgia of sorts, in that it was a feeling I got from a game which I hadn't gotten in a long time, and by long time I mean since Ninja Gaiden Black from last-gen. That is to say, I was actually compelled to keep playing. It was addicting. I had to keep playing and come back for more (and I still want to replay it and do a bunch more stuff in it....except college gets in the way of that ). That's when I realized what that game and other games that I like had going for them (both retro and stuff from last-gen as well), and what most modern games lack for me. To be blunt, modern games are shallow. They have gorgeous visuals and great voice-acting and sound and whatnot, but their actual gameplay and their actual design honestly come off as so lazy and generic to me. Gameplay seems to become secondary to how a game looks these days. I feel like games just falsely throw extra modes in them which don't really amount to anything to make up for a lack of content. Higher difficulty settings are just a matter of switching from Normal to Hard whenever you want and all that happens is that enemies become sponges that soak up more damage and all of a sudden you can go down in just 2 hits. Also, since Gears of War, 90% of all TPS games have just cloned that formula, and now it feels like something incredibly generic. Call of Duty did the same thing for FPS games (at least on consoles).

As for Hack n' Slash games, most of them are just cheap God of War rip-offs. Every genre seems like it takes a popular game and then just falls into that game's formula. For me its just flat-out boring. The worst offender is adventure games all following the lead of Uncharted. That is to say that they are more concerned with being cinematic than actually being games.

So, to sum it all up, if I were to be brutally honest, I personally think that modern gaming in general just sucks.

Now, keep in mind that I'm only referring to the majority of popular genres in games. I don't consider old-school style platformers (even if they are new games) such as what's found on the Wii or handheld consoles, or any retro-style games of any sort to be so lacking. Its the main reason, in fact, that I really want to get a Wii, now. The XBOX360's library barely has any  value for me anymore, and aside from Yakzuza games and maybe a couple of other titles of interest, the PS3 is even worse.

Like I said, I know I'm coming off as a snob, and this is just my opinion, but this is how I honestly feel about games these days that are designed with "modern" sensibilities. I have REALLY tried my best to get into these games, but they just aren't doing it for me. Ninja Gaiden succumbing to these trends was pretty much the final straw for me. Honestly, Ninja Gaiden 3 now looks like yet another cheap God of War knock-off.

At this point I'm considering just selling off my XBOX360 and saving up some money for a Wii and a Nintendo DS. To be specific I mean the original DS, that is, since I can't currently afford a 3DS, unless I got that by itself and forgot about the Wii, which isn't happening since the Wii currently has a much bigger and stronger library of games since its much older than the 3DS. To me those are honestly the only gaming devices worth owning anymore (well that and the PC, but I'd be able to afford both of those AND a 3DS before I could afford a good PC to run games on).

It's not just you, starting with last gen I was becoming disenchanted with the direction gaming was taking. Fast, flashy, and with no meat to it. Most games seem to follow that formula now. Basically 6 hour movies for $60.

But I'm not really a full on retro gamer because there are good games out there. I mean, I just posted that the Ratchet & Clank games are better shooters than most current gen shooters... and they're primarily platformers! They aren't totally scripted hallways with little variety, and in fact give the player a lot to do. The weapons are way more creative, as well. I just played these games for the first time this gen, too.

There are not enough games out there with meat on them anymore, since most gamers just trade them in ASAP to get $20 off the next overhyped Hollywood shooter, they obviously don't care enough.

Also, you should watch the price of the 3DS because it's already pretty close to DS territory. One more price drop and it's there. 

[Foggle]

Wii and PC are your best bets for quality games these days. Both have tons of great exclusives with a mix of old-school design mentality and modern production values. Plus, the Virtual Console and GOG.com/Steam make it easier than ever to discover "new" old games.

You should pick up Deus Ex 3 sometime. Best game of this gen by far, IMO.