Things That Bother You About Gaming

[Foggle]

If you don't think Manhunt 1 was that bad then this is the part where I slowly back away from you and then bolt out of the door.

It's supposed to be disturbing, though; that's the point. The second one is even more violent... but it wants to make you pop a boner instead of shock you.

[gunswordfist]

Torture porn pretty much Is ultraviolence, though. I'm not sure what other kind there is in games other than enemies bleeding when you kill them.

And to be honest, I don't like it in ninja games. I prefer them just bursting into a faded evil-essence of something. Maybe that's partially because how that's how all the old school ninja games did it, but I find over-the-top gore and blood fountains contrasted with a stealthy and quick character kind of weird to me. It was really weird to me in Shinobi PS2 because they burst into essence AFTER getting sliced into pieces... I dunno, that's just me.

Something like DOOM, or DMC, doesn't really bother me at all however.

Ummm, no.

ultraviolence ( n. ) Extreme violence

Total Recall, like I mentioned before, has ultraviolence. It also doesn't have an ounce of torture porn. You're just going with the most extreme example for the sake of your argument. I don't know too many blockbuster games that have torture porn. I'd like to hear this.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Torture porn pretty much Is ultraviolence, though. I'm not sure what other kind there is in games other than enemies bleeding when you kill them.

And to be honest, I don't like it in ninja games. I prefer them just bursting into a faded evil-essence of something. Maybe that's partially because how that's how all the old school ninja games did it, but I find over-the-top gore and blood fountains contrasted with a stealthy and quick character kind of weird to me. It was really weird to me in Shinobi PS2 because they burst into essence AFTER getting sliced into pieces... I dunno, that's just me.

Shinobi PS2 and Ninja Gaiden XBOX aren't stealth games, though. They are action games that just have ninjas as the main characters you play as simply because ninjas are cool. And just because older games did it differently doesn't mean that it "doesn't fit" for newer ninja games to have blood and gore. Its not necessary, sure enough, but it still fits in with the game. I mean, you're cutting enemies to pieces. What would you expect to come out of them, purple mist?

The reason its OK in the 2D games is because those games can get away with having different effects, and also back in the day it was more profitable to keep violence toned down. In a modern 3D game, it'd look really silly if you were cutting up enemies but there was absolutely no feedback to doing so other than them exploding into nothing after you hit them enough. You kind of have to look at these things in the context of how the game actually plays.

Besides, I really think you're over-blowing the whole blood and gore thing since its not really an issue. Its just an effect that's there to add to the tone of the game. Its just purposely over the top and I fail to see how its torture porn in those sorts of games, especially since its really just blood and little to now actual gore (like guts, organs, and other stuff in that nature).

[gunswordfist]

This is a open and shut case. Yes we get it Desen, you don't like realism in your games. We heard you the first time.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Actually, I don't think blood and violence has to be synonymous with realism. I don't really care for a "realistic" portrayal of violence in my games, either, because that is closer to what I consider to be torture porn. I however have no problems with over the top violence that's just there for fun. Its the type of ultraviolence that doesn't really add to the game, but its all in good fun and its more to satisfy that immature side of us that likes ridiculous amounts of blood spewing about. Even so, what matters the most is how good the game works mechanically.

In that regard, that's why Ninja Gaiden Black is my favorite game ever. It could get rid of the blood for all I care (which doesn't really bother me, anyways), but it still has the best gameplay mechanics out of any ninja game ever made, and that's what counts (it also happens to be a fact ).

[gunswordfist]

Actually I'm just using Desen's past words against him. He doesn't like games that look "too real" whether it's just game that use blood instead of arcade effects or whatever. He's just trying to say that ultraviolence is bad just because it's in the kind of games he doesn't like in the first place.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yeah, how biased of you, Desensitized.

[Spark Of Spirit]

gsf has got the whole thread figured out! Lock 'er up, Foggle!

I said I don't like it because I find it needless. Time spent modeling how a human being that's split into pieces could instead be used on making better AI or putting item drops in game. Once an enemy is defeated, I don't care what happens to him, I want to get to the next spot. You might find it "satisfying", but I find it "needless".

You could use my words against me this way if you want: "Desen thinks that if Miyamoto should have taken out squished Goombas in SMB1 and they would have had more time to make the clouds not recolors of the bushes! Desen, you need to be more like Spark! He has a head on his shoulders!"

You don't hear my talking about fatalities in Mortal Kombat do you? Because it's not about the actual violence.

[Foggle]

Desen, you need to be more like Spark! He has a head on his shoulders!"

[gunswordfist]

Well some say MK  could have a deeper fighting system if so much time wasn't focused on fatalities.

Again, this is about games you don't even like in the first place. Name a game you like that has realistic deaths.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

gsf has got the whole thread figured out! Lock 'er up, Foggle!

I said I don't like it because I find it needless. Time spent modeling how a human being that's split into pieces could instead be used on making better AI or putting item drops in game. Once an enemy is defeated, I don't care what happens to him, I want to get to the next spot. You might find it "satisfying", but I find it "needless".

Needless doesn't mean it makes the game inferior, though. It may be needless, but it doesn't hurt the game. Ninja Gaiden Black and NG2 already prove this wrong on your part. They have violence in them, but they also have the best enemy AI in ANY hack n' slash game ever (let alone any ninja game), they have item pick-ups and upgrading, a deep combat system (pretty much on the same level as the deepest out there, like DMC and Bayonetta), and NGB in particular is jam-packed with content (there isn't a single other ninja game in existence that can compete with it in that regard). So really, your point is moot in this case.

You don't hear my talking about fatalities in Mortal Kombat do you? Because it's not about the actual violence.

In the same vein, its not about the actual violence in ninja games just because they have one. You mentioned Shinobi PS2 not needing the blood, but even if it didn't have it, how would that make the game any better? The game was already what the designers intended it to be, which was an old-school 2D gaming mentality in a 3D environment. Having blood didn't add anything, sure, but it didn't detract anything. You're making the games sound like they are worse for having violence (and they aren't even that violent to begin with, at least by modern gaming standards), when that's not even a big deal to begin with. If the game actually focused more in violence than gameplay I'd agree with you, but in this case it doesn't. The violence is just an after-thought that you either care for or don't, but its not like they left out a whole big gameplay feature just so they could add blood into the game. I don't know where that sort of logic comes from.

[Foggle]

Needless doesn't mean it makes the game inferior, though. It may be needless, but it doesn't hurt the game. Ninja Gaiden Black and NG2 already prove this wrong on your part. They have violence in them, but they also have the best enemy AI in ANY hack n' slash game ever (let alone any ninja game), they have item pick-ups and upgrading, a deep combat system (pretty much on the same level as the deepest out there, like DMC and Bayonetta), and it is jam-packed with content. So really, your point is moot in this case.

Also, F.E.A.R. is still unmatched in terms of shooter AI and satisfying mechanics to this day, and it lets you literally tear enemies apart and melt the flesh off of their bones.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

That's another great example. I mean, F.E.A.R. certainly wouldn't be a lesser game at all if the violence was toned down (though, in this case the violence DOES actually fit the game's tone and atmosphere), but its not like the fact that its violent has any bearing on the actual gameplay mechanics themselves. The developers already achieved what they wanted to with the game itself. Its not as though they chose to design gruesome death animations and blood effects in favor of other gameplay elements they could have added. They designed that as part of the game and designed the rest of the game the way they wanted to. If they had a bigger budget then the only other thing I could see them doing would be to enhance the graphics, since the gameplay was already rock solid and the enemy AI, as Foggle stated, are still the best out of any FPS in existence (at least among the ones that I have played). The closest second I can think of is Halo, and even the Halo games are nowhere close to the level of the F.E.A.R. games in terms of brilliant enemy AI.

[Foggle]

F.E.A.R. actually had the best technical graphics seen yet when it was first released, iirc. The engine just couldn't run well-lit environments, which is where the decision to have dark and moody horror atmosphere came from.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yeah, it was the best looking game of its time. I just wanted to point out that its really the only thing I could see them trying to further enhance if they had a bigger budget, rather than the gore taking up some of their budget in favor of them enhancing other aspects of the game or adding in any new features.