The Legend of Zelda Series

[Spark Of Spirit]

I don't think it's as stupid as anyone here is suggesting... Seriously, Spark, worst story in the series? What? Not debatable?

Which game in the series has a worse story? None of them has a stupid twist so that pretty much narrows the field, don't it? 

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I do agree that MM has the best and most nuanced story in any Zelda game, even though it creates the 3-day gameplay mechanic, which I still personally can't stand.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I don't think it's as stupid as anyone here is suggesting... Seriously, Spark, worst story in the series? What? Not debatable?

Which game in the series has a worse story? None of them has a stupid twist so that pretty much narrows the field, don't it? 

Well, that depends on if we're counting the CDi games or not.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I don't think it's as stupid as anyone here is suggesting... Seriously, Spark, worst story in the series? What? Not debatable?

Which game in the series has a worse story? None of them has a stupid twist so that pretty much narrows the field, don't it? 

Well, that depends on if we're counting the CDi games or not.

[talonmalon333]

I don't think it's as stupid as anyone here is suggesting... Seriously, Spark, worst story in the series? What? Not debatable?

Which game in the series has a worse story? None of them has a stupid twist so that pretty much narrows the field, don't it? 

Every game in the series other than Majora's Mask and Wind Waker.

The twist is a bit unnecessary, but every other part of the story is excellent. It also has the best partner in the series which is another big part of the story.

[Spark Of Spirit]

No way.

The NES games, Link's Awakening, A Link to the Past, the Oracle games, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Minish Cap, Wind Waker, Skyward Sword, and A Link Between Worlds, all have much better stories than Twilight Princess. For one, they're all consistent, which goes a long way to make them better. For another, they didn't have over an hour with nothing plot related to do (outside of SS, but the story is so much better than TP that it cancels it out).

It's low tier. 

[talonmalon333]

You know, I'm just going to go to spoiler tags now, since I want to say things but need to be spoiler-free. Foggle, don't look at this.

Spoiler

Twilight Princess' opening worked because it gave you some attachment to Ordon Village, and did a good job of establishing Link and Ilia's relationship with very little dialogue. Midna is also the best partner in the series with the most personality, development, and story involvement. The concept of the world being covered in Twilight was effective because we essentially got to watch the entire kingdom fading from existence. It wasn't just informed in exposition. We saw reality changing. Though this does include a fantastic and bone chilling moment of exposition where one of the characters tells the story of a shopkeeper who was murdered by a swarm of those shadow monsters in Kakariko Village. More than almost any game in the series, Twilight Princess does a great job of creating mood, which enhances the story a lot. Twilight Princess also had a lot of nice quieter moments in the story.

Zant was also a really good villain. He didn't just do nothing. We actually saw him throughout the first half of the game doing things and it made him feel like a formidable foe, especially when he nearly kills Link and Midna a third of a way into the game. And it's true that the game's big twist of having him be revealed as just a pawn, with Ganon being the true villain, softens him far too much. I'm not going to defend that twist much. Ganon's inclusion makes a lot of sense but there was no buildup to him at all. But his involvement at the end of the game is solid. Remember when Midna used a mere fraction of her power and utterly obliterated Zant? Well, Ganon took the full force of that power, came out unscathed, and left us to believe that he had killed her. The whole final stretch at the end of the game is well written, for the most part. Midna's goodbye in particular had to be one of the series' more emotional moments.

Really, I can't think of any flaws in the story other than the Ganon twist which wasn't nearly that big a deal. There was just more effect put into this game's story than most other games in the series. Most would agree to that. In contrast, A Link Between World's story was alright but it really wasn't developed much, and that end game twist of Link's parallel counterpart received even less buildup than Ganon being the villain of Twilight Princess. The NES games barely even had story all throughout, so I guess you're right they were consistent in that regard.

[close]

[Spark Of Spirit]

Foggle, you really should avoid this discussion.

Spoiler

Zant was a good villain up until the point we learned that it wasn't HIM that was responsible for the villainy. Kind of ruins his impact.

I think you're making a mistake in assuming I think the story is outright terrible. I don't. It just has weaknesses that shouldn't be there that hold it back from me liking it nearly as much as any other Zelda story. Also a very boring world map and a slow start. But it does have a wolf transformation, Midna, and some excellent dungeons and boss fights. There are worse Zelda games, but there are also better ones.

The twist in ALBW was great was because it doesn't change anything in the core story. It merely adds onto it and explains things it didn't need to explain. I didn't need to know who Ravio was to enjoy the simple old school adventure story (which I did to a tremendous amount) or understand Lorule's differences to Hyrule, but it added a lot to both Lorule in showing how similar and different it was and how Link succeeds as a hero in how he differs from (and is similar to) Ravio. I honestly think ALBW's story is great. I enjoyed every minute of it.

[close]

And the best partner is Ezlo. 

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

To be fair, the original Legend of Zelda barely even has what would qualify as a story. It's pretty much:

"Link, please go kill Ganon and rescue Princess Zelda."

*Link kills Ganon and rescues Princess Zelda. The end.*

There's really nothing in-between nor any world-building context with any other memorable characters. That doesn't come into the series until ALTTP. So, while I haven't played TP yet, I find it hard to believe that its story can be any weaker than that if it at least even has a story to begin with.

[Spark Of Spirit]

"Link, please go kill Ganon and rescue Princess Zelda."

*Link kills Ganon and rescues Princess Zelda. The end.*

The difference between us, I suppose, is that this was always more than enough for me. I'd take that over a lot of modern VG stories.

Oh, and that ending is still better than the likes of Fallout 3 or Mass Effect 3. 

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Actually, I've made it abundantly clear that I don't really care that much about stories in video games. That said, even if I like a game, it doesn't necessarily mean that it has a good story (my favorite game ever is NGB, after all). The plot to the original Zelda is a scenario, not an actual story. A story is something with characters, a theme, and a beginning, middle, and end.

[Spark Of Spirit]

And yet I still like it more than most stories in the medium.  *shrug*

And NGB's story is amazing. What are you on about? Blood Dragon might have the only better story than it.

[talonmalon333]

Foggle, you really should avoid this discussion.

Spoiler

Zant was a good villain up until the point we learned that it wasn't HIM that was responsible for the villainy. Kind of ruins his impact.

I think you're making a mistake in assuming I think the story is outright terrible. I don't. It just has weaknesses that shouldn't be there that hold it back from me liking it nearly as much as any other Zelda story. Also a very boring world map and a slow start. But it does have a wolf transformation, Midna, and some excellent dungeons and boss fights. There are worse Zelda games, but there are also better ones.

The twist in ALBW was great was because it doesn't change anything in the core story. It merely adds onto it and explains things it didn't need to explain. I didn't need to know who Ravio was to enjoy the simple old school adventure story (which I did to a tremendous amount) or understand Lorule's differences to Hyrule, but it added a lot to both Lorule in showing how similar and different it was and how Link succeeds as a hero in how he differs from (and is similar to) Ravio. I honestly think ALBW's story is great. I enjoyed every minute of it.

[close]

And the best partner is Ezlo. 

Spoiler

But what weaknesses does Twilight Princess' story have beyond the twist?

Also, I liked A Link Between World's story but I just don't think it was special in any way. I think there are other video games that do better the idea of having a bare bones story that doesn't need to be delved into, but is enhanced when you do the delving. I do think A Link Between Worlds made the right choice by cutting the story structure so much to make it less focused and linear. It sounds like Nintendo will stick to that idea for the Wii U game, and I hope they do. But I also hope they provide a bit more depth in it.

[close]

[Spark Of Spirit]

Foggle, you really should avoid this discussion.

Spoiler

Zant was a good villain up until the point we learned that it wasn't HIM that was responsible for the villainy. Kind of ruins his impact.

I think you're making a mistake in assuming I think the story is outright terrible. I don't. It just has weaknesses that shouldn't be there that hold it back from me liking it nearly as much as any other Zelda story. Also a very boring world map and a slow start. But it does have a wolf transformation, Midna, and some excellent dungeons and boss fights. There are worse Zelda games, but there are also better ones.

The twist in ALBW was great was because it doesn't change anything in the core story. It merely adds onto it and explains things it didn't need to explain. I didn't need to know who Ravio was to enjoy the simple old school adventure story (which I did to a tremendous amount) or understand Lorule's differences to Hyrule, but it added a lot to both Lorule in showing how similar and different it was and how Link succeeds as a hero in how he differs from (and is similar to) Ravio. I honestly think ALBW's story is great. I enjoyed every minute of it.

[close]

And the best partner is Ezlo. 

Spoiler

But what weaknesses does Twilight Princess' story have beyond the twist?

Also, I liked A Link Between World's story but I just don't think it was special in any way. I think there are other video games that do better the idea of having a bare bones story that doesn't need to be delved into, but is enhanced when you do the delving. I do think A Link Between Worlds made the right choice by cutting the story structure so much to make it less focused and linear. It sounds like Nintendo will stick to that idea for the Wii U game, and I hope they do. But I also hope they provide a bit more depth in it.

[close]

Spoiler

None, really. It just has the weakness the others don't have which puts it down below the others for me.

As for ALBW, this is a good a story as you can get with a non-linear structure without over complicating everything into convolution. Sure, it was a "Link saves the day" story, but the added background elements of Lorule, the wall mechanic's story involvement, the characters, and the general flow, add a ton to the worldbuilding. I would be perfectly fine if Zelda Wii U had a story like ALBW. I really liked it.

[close]

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

And yet I still like it more than most stories in the medium.  *shrug*

Well, I agree that it's better than the pretentious drivel of most modern AAA movie games these days, anyways. But by Nintendo standards, they've definitely improved since then.