Full Metal Alchemist

[Spark Of Spirit]

Discuss this modern classic (I guess) here.

To start off the discussion, I think I know one aspect of the show that actually does irk me a lot now that I think about it.

The villains.

To put this completely honestly... They're not very good and are almost Saturday morning cartoon-ish in their motivations and personalities. I think the only interesting one is Greed and they manage to kill him off rather fast either way. The Homunculus characters are all one note and dull lacking any character beyond token stereotypes and they drag the show down a lot.

Now what kept me watching was the plot, it was a lot of fun and it had a lot of twists and turns and a few of the main characters are pretty likable. But I think the lack of a strong villain really holds it back from being truly great. (No, Lyra is awful and has a retarded motivation for doing what she does. The show would have been better without her at all)

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Aside from Greed and Bradley (and with Bradley, it has more to do with his bad-ass factor than him actually being a well-written villain, since he's really just average at best), none of the FMA villains are interesting. I don't ever see them as too serious of a threat, either, so despite the well-constructed plot and good character development for most of the main cast, I never feel that the villains are a good enough opposition to them, or even if they are they don't come off that way with how bland their personalities are and how boring most of their scenes are. The only time they felt like a threat was when Envy actually managed to kill Hughes off, but after that in both the manga and the anime the series played it safe and would barely even touch any of the main characters until towards the end. People were easily fooled into thinking that it was being darker than it really was when it introduced new minor characters just for the sake of killing them off (the first anime was especially guilty of this), but really while they did help service the plot better, that was just a cheap way to add drama and tension to the show when really the main characters never felt like they were ever in that much danger to the point that I worried about their lives past Hughes's death.

Overall, I still think FMA can be seen as a great series for what it does right, but it no longer works that well for me based on how boring it ends up turning out due to honestly playing it too safe with just about everything, despite have a really interesting premise and set-up.

Now you might call that hypocritical of me to say since some of my favorite series ever can play it safe with the characters, but the difference here is that those series knew what they were trying to be and succeeded at being great examples of those types of series. With FMA, it kept making itself out to be something beyond just the adventure and something that explored the philosophy of life, death, and the sacrifices required to gain something out of life, but really that's just a bunch of bull, since the series rarely ever gets close to be philosophical at all. Its still a VERY well-written series in terms of story and in terms of developing its main characters though, so for what its worth, I still do "like" it. I just don't think its nearly worthy enough of its praise anymore, though.

[Spark Of Spirit]

That's just it. I was trying to think of what exactly it is that holds this show (in general, even Brotherhood bored me) back for me now when I really liked it before. I don't think it holds up for a lot of the reasons you said, the lack of any strong threat (especially once you know the villain's motivation which kills a lot of it for me) or opposing force makes it boring to watch. Even with the great setting and plot, and a few good main characters (some of which grate, honestly) I just can't get engaged in it any more.

Also, my major annoyance with Bradley is that it takes WAY too long for him to actually be a villain. He spends too much time not really contributing anything at all other than "presence" to make the good guys seem more under the thumb than they actually really are.

[Rynnec]

Lyra/Dante really was a lackluster Big Bad. Her general concept is good, but its execution left ALOT to be desired. It doesn't help that she was killed off-screen in a lame ass way. In general, most of the villains in the first anime were rather bland, especially compared to their Manga counterparts (Kimblee, and Bradley suffer the most from this) it certaintly didn't help that when a villian DID become more interesting, they either got killed off (Greed) or stopped being villains altogether (Lust, Scar, Wrath, and Sloth).

Brotherhood's villains are much more interesting by comparison. Bradley and Pride are suprisingly somewhat layered villains, with their genuine concern for Mrs. Bradley, which is good as it would have been very easy to write them as completely one-note villains. (Though Pride teeters close to this most of the time) Same thing with Kimblee, his personality is easily the most interesting by far, it's just a shame he hardly ever appears after the whole Briggs incident.

[gunswordfist]

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Aside from Greed and Bradley (and with Bradley, it has more to do with his bad-ass factor than him actually being a well-written villain, since he's really just average at best), none of the FMA villains are interesting. I don't ever see them as too serious of a threat, either, so despite the well-constructed plot and good character development for most of the main cast, I never feel that the villains are a good enough opposition to them, or even if they are they don't come off that way with how bland their personalities are and how boring most of their scenes are. The only time they felt like a threat was when Envy actually managed to kill Hughes off, but after that in both the manga and the anime the series played it safe and would barely even touch any of the main characters until towards the end. People were easily fooled into thinking that it was being darker than it really was when it introduced new minor characters just for the sake of killing them off (the first anime was especially guilty of this), but really while they did help service the plot better, that was just a cheap way to add drama and tension to the show when really the main characters never felt like they were ever in that much danger to the point that I worried about their lives past Hughes's death.

Overall, I still think FMA can be seen as a great series for what it does right, but it no longer works that well for me based on how boring it ends up turning out due to honestly playing it too safe with just about everything, despite have a really interesting premise and set-up.

Now you might call that hypocritical of me to say since some of my favorite series ever can play it safe with the characters, but the difference here is that those series knew what they were trying to be and succeeded at being great examples of those types of series. With FMA, it kept making itself out to be something beyond just the adventure and something that explored the philosophy of life, death, and the sacrifices required to gain something out of life, but really that's just a bunch of bull, since the series rarely ever gets close to be philosophical at all. Its still a VERY well-written series in terms of story and in terms of developing its main characters though, so for what its worth, I still do "like" it. I just don't think its nearly worthy enough of its praise anymore, though.

I agree about the villains. Since like episode 20 something, I believe I think it was the end of the lab episodes, I was hoping the Homunculi would get replaced. In the first series, I thought only Greed and Envy were worth anything. Greed is my absolute favorite character in the show, along with Scar. Greed did everything I liked about a good villain, he had a great personality and interesting morality. I actually don't mind too much that he died early because I am guessing he didn't last too long in the manga. Envy isn't a favorite but it was the most interesting character out of the other Homunculi. Lust is the most overrated character in the show, Bradley did too and everyone else was uninteresting or annoying. What I did get from the Homunculi was that the heroes had no chance of taking them head on. I knew they had to find interesting ways to kill them and they did just that. Most of them died in a video game watercooler type of moment way. And yeah, to me it sucks that the Homunculi gave off a false sense of grimace since they just played around with the heroes.

So far, I think the shows greatest flaws are both of their long stretches of boring episodes. The first series had those 20 or whatever episodes before the lab. Brotherhood was on fire and became my favorite anime ever during the time before Bradley shut down and separated the crew. Besides the Briggs and Kimblee, nothing interesting came out of that group of episodes. It was an unnecessary slow down. I wish Bradley just kept trying to handle them behind the scenes and they shortened the number of episodes up until the war. Preferably had Ed and Al go to the Briggs and Roy have more than a God damn desk job.

I agree that the first show didn't live up to its philosophy. There was a few moments of sacrifice but that's it. So far, Brotherhood hasn't either. I do like that they haven't said Equivalent Exchange every other word. In fact, Brotherhood hasn't said that in ages.

I am going to give my final opinion on the show after in finish it with adult swim so please for the love of God, don't forget to put up spoiler warnings.

Almost forgot, I don't care for any of the average anime characters from Shing or whatever. I wish the gang had another alchemist join them instead of those 4, not including their Dad.

[gunswordfist]

As of about a month ago, I no longer have CN, so I have reduced myself to watching Brotherhood online. I got back to catching up again and I just watched a bit of episode 56.....holy shit. I am waiting for the rest of it to load.

[gunswordfist]

So wait, did people really think Falman was going to be Pride in Brotherhood?

[Daikun]

So wait, did people really think Falman was going to be Pride in Brotherhood?

...Why would anyone think that?

I haven't watched the series in a few years. Did I forget a detail?

[gunswordfist]

Just something I read on tvtropes. I was surprised to hear that theory too. According to the website, people speculated that Falman was Pride because he barely had any screen time so they thought he was spending his time being a Homunculus.

[LumRanmaYasha]

Fury appears even less than Falman. If people were gonna suspect one of Roy's crew being Pride, they should've suspected him.

[gunswordfist]

Well him and Selim do like like they are about the same age.

[The Shadow Gentleman]

Just something I read on tvtropes.

And there's your problem.

[gunswordfist]

  It's fun reading their entries.

[LumRanmaYasha]

Yeah, I'm with GSF. The crazy theories on Tv Tropes are hilarious.

[The Shadow Gentleman]

I know. I thought he was seriously bringing it up. I can't tell with him.