Animation Revelation's Top 65 Cartoons Talkback Thread

[Lord Dalek]

Dexter, though... that later stuff really is dire.

What later stuff? This better not be some Tsukihime-style shit you keep making up.

[Avaitor]

I really need to pick up my Cartoon Cartoon series and go up to the later episodes of the shows and go into why Dexter and pPG just didn't work by the end of their runs.

[Foggle]

Yes, do it.

[Spark Of Spirit]

If we did a new list then we'd just want to change it again in a few years, but I'm not against doing another one.

If I were to do it now Trigun and TB&TB would definitely be top 20.

[gunswordfist]

If I were to do it now Trigun and TB&TB would definitely be top 20.

Amen!

[Avaitor]

So I've had thoughts about the list lately. We made this a decade ago, and it looks like something we would have made back then. I've thought about making a new, updated list and going for 100 this time, adding in some of the many exciting series to have premiered or made a mark in the years since we made it, as well as a few we missed or didn't think of. A couple of us actually did make a tentative list... but looking at it recently, I'm not sure about a bunch of it, and I want to start from scratch.

Until then, I'm in a mood, and I'm going to look at each of the choices on our previous list, one by one.

65- Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes

So we put this at the bottom of our list as a sign of what was to come for animation in the near future, and wanted to see how the series would turn out. We got two pretty strong seasons out of EMH, enough so that I'd definitely push to rank it higher now. At least until Invincible hit, I'd call it one of the last great super hero series.

64- Baccano!

I'll be honest, while I really liked the series when I watched it ages ago, I rewatched the premiere a while ago and wasn't vibing with it at all. And I also had a hard time with Durarara, so maybe I'm just losing my touch with this kind of series. Am I crazy here? Do you think Baccano! is still higher tier?

63- Excel Saga

Still my blindspot on this list lol. Sorry, Foggle! I do have the first 20 or so manga volumes waiting for me to read when I get the chance, though.

62- Cow & Chicken

I'll be honest, this was always the least essential of the major Cartoon Cartoons, but I do have a soft spot for its absurdity. Spark was the one who pushed for C&C being on here in the first place, but I could easily see this being taken off now that he's retired.

61- Hunter X Hunter (99)

At the time this was made, HXH was still mostly niche in the US. It's only been in the past few years when the second adaptation has helped to build its status among anime fans. I really like that one, and I do give it credit for how it did a good job of tackling the later arcs that the original series missed out on. But I do also appreciate this one's take on the material, and I can definitely see room for both here. Possibly in the same spot?

60- W.I.T.C.H.

I haven't thought about this one in a while. Back when we were doing this, we were still on the "Greg Weisman is teh greatest" phase, even though he only worked on the second season. I'm not sure how I'll feel about it now, but I do recall how watching DVR'd episodes after a dull day of high school made me feel better.

59- American Dragon: Jake Long

Ah, here's an old special interest of mine. Admittedly, I didn't get much push back from everyone else making the list, but I know some aren't a fan of Jake's dialogue. But I still think this was a good stepping stone between Gargoyles and Gravity Falls, and watching random episodes on Disney+ lately have reminded me of why I liked the series so much. The comic relief is pretty good, and the emotional beats still hit, even if it's not up to the standards of either series. This could easily still make it lower on the list.

58- ReBoot

I'm not so sure about this one, tbh. I've been watching it again, and it's very much a show of its time. Honestly, it's slightly charming in that regard, but I couldn't rank it that high now.

57- Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid

Yes.

56- Courage the Cowardly Dog

Why was this so low? Honestly, it's better than a lot of the other CN originals from its time, and should be at least in the top 50.

55- Megas XLR

I'm the party pooper and never got into this one. But I know most of y'all do, so I don't mind it ranking.

54- The Real Ghostbusters

This is still about as good as an 80's cartoon could be, but even then only for the first couple of JMS-penned seasons. I think it could still rank on here, but maybe a bit lower.

53- X-Men: Evolution

I pushed for Evolution, because my Marvel loving ass wanted one more series on here, but watching a little bit of the series again does make me question that. It can be pretty annoying, but to be fair, that's usually the case when you focus on teenagers lol. This is still the best X-Men series imo, but I think you're valid if you'd pick the other ones.

52- Paranoia Agent

Yeah, this should be higher. Rewatching this on Toonami last year was a treat. Possibly Satoshi Kon's defining work?

51- The Angry Beavers

Spark loved this one, but I never got the appeal. I don't think that Norb and Dag are very likable, and nothing else really stands out about it. If he comes back and calls me an idiot for suggesting we take it off, I'll accept it, but this could easily go on my watch.

50- Superman: The Animated Series

Sometimes, this is my favorite DCAU show. It turned me from a Superman agnostic into a believer, and it has some great action. Not to mention that its lows aren't as low as its sister series. But at the same time, we've seen so many interesting works come out since making this list that I can still see it show up on the lower end of the top 100.

49- Beast Wars

I finally gave this a shot a couple of years after making this list, and I can see why Spark pushed for it being on here. It's still among the most worthwhile takes I've seen someone do with the Transformers.

48- The Critic

It stinks!

Actually, the Critic's okay. But it is a little dated, I'll admit. I'd put it a bit lower now.

47- Death Note

Enough time has passed to look past the anime club weebs and Hot Topic posers to admit that Death Note is a pretty well-written series. Maybe it could rank a little lower, but I think this was a fair spot back then.

46- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003)

Honestly this is pretty high, and while I do think this is better than the original series and the 2012 show, I am interested in getting to Rise Of to see how that stacks. Not to mention that the last few seasons were kind of wack...

45- GTO

Man, I haven't thought of this one in ages, but this was a hoot when EK hooked me onto it! I also have a feeling that some people would have a problem with it nowadays, but they're probably wrong. Still, I may need to refresh myself on this to see where it should go.

44- Avatar: The Last Airbender

I think EK and I pushed this to be as low as it is, but that was wrong. Honestly, even though this will never be a personal favorite, the series is looking better every year. It seems like countless shows are still trying to copy its serialized approach and not nailing most of what it got right. Top 20 for sure. Top 10 maybe?

43- Freakazoid!

This is honestly my favorite Tom Ruegger series, and the one I'd push to be ranked highest. I do think that part of what turns me onto it is why Gen Zr's tend to skip it compared to his other series- besides the levels of absurdity the series aims for, it's purposefully niche, going out of its way to make references that even most parents would scratch their heads at. Tiny Toons and Animaniacs, those tend to pick works to reference that are far more timeless, like the Marx Brothers and Michael Keaton's Batman, while a big joke from a Frekazoid! episode revolves around The F-Troop. Who the fuck cares about F-Troop? Yet it's still funny even if you don't get it.

Also, the more Paul Rugg, the better.

42- Duckman

This is another favorite of Spark's, and while I can appreciate its sense of humor, I haven't been able to do a full watch of it. I can only handle so much of it at a time. It's not very pleasant, in any sense. Still worth mentioning as one of the weirder series to catch on to some extent in the 90's.

41- Johnny Bravo

I do really like Johnny, but I think this should go down a few spots. It's just not a very consistent show, but I'd still go to bat for it. There are enough episodes at every point of the series, even the the last series when Van Partible came back and cut out everything that was added during his time away. I think that I still like Johnny better than Dexter and maybe even Powerpuff, but I couldn't reasonably rank it above them.

40- Fullmetal Alchemist

This was for the original, as I don't think Brotherhood had wrapped up at this point, but honestly, I never loved either series that much, and would suggest cutting it out entirely. Although I've honestly liked what I've read of Silver Spoons much better.

39- Batman: The Brave & the Bold

A goddamn delight. In some cases, being second best can sound like a pity prize, but I think everyone involved should appreciate that this is easily the second best Batman cartoon. I don't know if we should put it too much higher, but I think this is a good place for it.

38- The Spectacular Spider-Man

I need to ask... how do y'all still feel about Spectacular? I have such loving memories of the series, but I haven't watched any of it in ages. Is it still as good as we considered it to be when it was new? Or have our standards changed enough to knock it down. I should probably just shut up and put my Blu-Ray on...

37- Darkwing Duck

Darkwing is still the best middle ground between The Tick's more detailed super hero satire, and Freakazoid's sporadic spoofing. Some episodes have aged better than others, but I'm still a fan of the show, and I think that DW and Gosalyn are terrific enough characters to feature on here somewhere.

36- Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law

I don't know how much of this has aged very well, honestly. "Bannon Custody Case" in particular makes me cringe- it's not just 10 minutes of "oh ho, the gays sure are funny, hint hint", but it's close to that, and there are other questionable episodes. But it's held up better than Sealab, I can say that much.

35- The Powerpuff Girls

I wonder if we take this off the list, that would mean that the CW stops going forward with the Diablo Cody show.

The series still slaps (pre-movie at least), but it'd be worth it.

34- Batman Beyond

Heh, if I'm recalling things right, when I was working on the first draft of our new list, Beyond almost missed it entirely until I noticed it was missing. So yes, I do think that time is pushing away the DCAU's luster. And this wasn't a very consistent show. But this is still the best version of itself it can be, and should be at least in the 70's.

33- Space Ghost: Coast to Coast

So while I do think that Harvey Birdman hasn't aged all that well, Space Ghost is still as enjoyable as ever imo. Truthfully, maybe even moreso, as its replay value is pretty strong. We'd probably be foolish to not keep it around this range.

32- Dexter's Laboratory

Did we really put Dexter above PPG? Wasn't my call- believe it or not, this has always been one of my lesser favorites of the classic CN shows. Most of the other shows just did more for me, and I think most of those are of equal or higher quality. But I do think it's good to have this and PPG right next to each other. They both showed the potential the new Hanna-Barbera staff could live up to, and they're strong compliments towards each other.

31- Lupin III

A pretty fair ranking, I could see this go higher if anything. I know that some of Lupin's antics haven't aged all that well, but the earlier series are still highly entertaining, and the more recent ones have done a good job of contextualizing the characters and how they fit in relation to today. I'd like to keep them all together, but if we could only go with one series, I think it'd be neck and neck with the second and Fujiko Mine.

(part 1 of 2)

[Avaitor]

30- The Huckleberry Hound Show

Yeah, this was all me, and what can I say, I like Hanna-Barbera. I do think that the earlier cartoons still have easy to consider charms, even beyond their importance to the industry, and I'd still put this on the list, but considerably lower. Also, it's funny to see people get their panties in a bunch by the Jellystone trailer.

29- Pinky & the Brain

A bit too high, which is a shame, because there are great scripts all around here, but there just isn't enough to the characters or formula for it to have sustained for as long as it did. But the good stuff is more than good enough to justify a spot here.

28-Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni

I'll... I'll come back to you guys on this one. I should hit up my Blu set of the series. But it does seem like this site's mutual love affair with the first two series has died down considerably over the years.

27- The Boondocks

I'm going to be brutally honest. I was an asshole in my teens and early 20's. To many people, some of which on this site. And I apologize. One thing I do feel bad about is how I enjoyed The Boondocks, and how I laughed at parts of the series that I shouldn't have. This came down to my own ignorance and superiority which I have no rights to claim.

Now when I watch the series, I recognize various bits that are meant to make non-Black viewers uncomfortable (a lot of which involves Ruckus), and while I no longer laugh at those parts, I respect the decisions behind why the strips and series was made. This is a very good series. Aside from the last season.

26- Invader Zim

Like Death Note, I think enough time has passed to make it easier to look past the Hot Topic crowd who devoured Zim in its heyday, and admire the show for what it is. Gir is a little cringey, yes, but I think it's still funny, and probably the last time Nickelodeon could be seen as edgy after Ren & Stimpy. If anything, the movie helped to remind me of what worked about the series.

25- Animaniacs

I was hit or miss on the reboot- for one thing, it turns out that removing every segment besides the two best makes their material less welcome, not more. But at the same time, the original show has always been inconsistent. The Warners often cross the line between respectfully crude and just unpleasant, and a lot of other segments barely work. That, and the show got lazier with its pop culture references and fourth wall breaking as it went along. But the good stuff is still highly entertaining, and the songs are unforgettable. I'd just knock this down a few spots.

24- Tiny Toon Adventures

I'd also move this down a few spots, but I'd like to keep it next to Animaniacs. I could easily swap them around as well, but ah well. Now everybody do the Kennedy shuffle!

23- DuckTales

I think this could rank higher, honestly. Even over the new series. Despite that show's strong concepts, I think the original continues to look better over the years. It's love of adventure and winning TMS animation, especially in the first season, is still worth looking up to. But I would recommend Carl Barks' comics over either show.

22- Home Movies

I put a couple of favorite episodes on last night. This is still my favorite show from everyone involved, even if both Bob's Burgers and Metalocalypse are more popular. But let's be honest, this is too high.

21- South Park

I think this is a good spot for the series, but I could see it going in the top 20 if talked into it. Personally, I don't like when it's the Randy Show, and I haven't had a taste for the series in a while, but I understand why it still resonates for so many. And I think the attacks Matt and Trey get from the left are a little unfair, and very tiresome.

20- Dragon Ball

I've been reading the series all the way through over past year or two, and have put on various episodes of the series. You can't give DB enough credit for all the tropes it brought along to shonen storytelling, and it's still quite fun too. The fan service has definitely not aged well, and that's the one big obstacle behind the first part, but it still resonates with many for a reason.

19- Daria

I'm pretty fine with this, but can see it go down a few spots to make room for other exciting newer series. But while certain elements are definitely stuck in the 90's/early 2000's, I think there's a lot to gravitate towards today. And I think the Jodie-oriented spin-off is probably a bad idea.

18- Mobile Suit Gundam

I pushed for this, because I was on a bit of a Gundam kick at the time, but this is pretty high for something that shows its age as much as it does. We'd probably swap it out for 0080 around this part, and put the original a bit lower. But I still think there's plenty to offer from the original Gundam series.

17- Futurama

I feel like the Comedy Central seasons have ruined my enthusiasm for the series, as I never come back to it anymore. They really don't need to make any more of it, even though the crew seem to never stop trying to bring it back. I'd rank this lower nowadays, as a few other adult series have taken its place for me, but tell me how I'm wrong anyway.

16- Justice League/Unlimited

We've talked before about the show's lows over the years, and that's still valid. But the highs are high enough to justify its place. And part of me just misses the classic super hero cartoon, which you could argue this was the apex of.

15- Rocko's Modern Life

This is probably still the best Nicktoon of all time. Or at least a strong second to Avatar. Yes, we probably should have put SpongeBob on here as well. But Rocko should still be higher.

14- Gargoyles

I used to think that this should be in the top 10, and I know some definitely will think so (hi Greg!). Personally, I think being right outside of it is just fine, though. Partly since Gargoyles is arguably a better example of strong writing for animation rather than strong storytelling with animation, especially compared to the main show it stands up to from the same period. That, and Young Justice's failings have soured me on Weisman's writing a smidge. Still, this is still his defining work for a reason.

13- The Flintstones

Yeah, I was kind of on my own when I suggested the show's ranking, and I do still really like it. But there are too many elements that show their age, worst of all the show's attitude towards women, that suggests that we did indeed put this too high. And being important doesn't mean being quality. But there's still a good show here, and it is kinder to Wilma and Betty than some would suggest, so I'd still want it in the top 25

12- MGM.

Some of the greatest cartoons ever made were done in Fred Quimby's studio. But mostly from the Avery and Hanna & Barbera departments. Some of those Harman-Ising cartoons really test your patience, and Barney Bear's cartoons are wildly inconsistent. Still, Avery's stuff, and of course Tom and Jerry warrant eternal praise. But I wouldn't add these cartoons in for the next list.

11- Neon Genesis Evangelion

Ah, here's everyone's favorite (or least favorite) pretentious mecha normie weeb show. I'll be honest, I don't think that I could sit down and watch it again- I've seen it too many times and I've probably taken everything from it that I can. But I'm still pro-NGE, and think this is a good spot for it.

10- Yu Yu Hakusho

As far as I'm concerned, this is still the gold standard for shonen storytelling. At least in animated form. But this was too high, and we'd definitely knock it down a little for the next list.

9- Jonny Quest

I do still really enjoy Quest, and I'll always give it credit for kickstarting my love for pulp adventure. But this is too high. Especially when you see how grossly racist it could get. This will definitely be knocked down a bit.

8- Cowboy Bebop

Bebop is still the anime to recommend to people who don't get anime for a reason. Sometimes I feel like it's lost a bit of its luster over the years, but I've been trying to rewatch it piece by piece lately and... nah, it's still good. Will very likely still be a top 10.

7- Ed, Edd n' Eddy

This was probably what I fought for the hardest, and surprise surprise, I'd still like to put the show in the top 10. This is more than just a childhood favorite though. HBO Max putting the show up has been a godsend, and I often put on a favorite episode when I need something to calm me down.

And it does bug me that it's appeared on so few of these lists. This is still among the most creative series ever made, and it deserves to at least have a seat on the table with the other considered greats. This is a hill I'll die on.

6- Monster

Naoki Urasawa's manga is one of the best I've read ever, an unforgettable emotional thrill ride that's better plotted than most page turners you'll find. The anime adaptation is... one of the best manga I've ever read.

We fought to put Monster in the top 10, because we wanted to share the good word of the series when it seemed like it wasn't catching on all that well in the states. But let's be honest, while the series is perfectly competent, it's an indictment of the book report adaptation, as it doesn't really offer you anything you couldn't experience from the original manga. That, and the fact that Urasawa is a better seller stateside than we thought at the time, is enough reason to drop this version of Monster from the list entirely.

5- King of the Hill

This has become another comfort show for me, when I need to sit down and relax. Over the course of 250-something episodes, there's been very few misfires, and too many great lines you might have forgotten for dozens of other ones. I could knock it down a slot or two, but Spark wasn't kidding when he called this one of the greats.

4- The Rocky & Bullwinkle Show

What can I say, the moose and squirrel did more with their limited animation than their contemporaries did, allowing for some of the sharpest writing brought to animation to shield its animated failings. I'd like to keep it high.

3- The Simpsons

So you may or may not have noticed my new blog, where I've been going over the series one episode (well really two) at a time. I've been having fun doing it. The first 8ish years or so are heralded for a reason, but I'd also be lying if I said that every element is as fresh today as they were 30 or so years ago. And that's before we get to the general mediocrity of the past 20 years or so of content. Not every modern episode is bad, far from that at all, but at this point, it's a matter of quantity when a good episode comes out, not quality. And that does hurt the show's reputation, even if just a little.

2- Batman: The Animated Series

I think I've mentioned this before, but I do think we're seeing B:TAS lose its influence. Action cartoons aren't being made in its image as much, and the aesthetic is similarly being copied less often. I think Avatar is more of the template nowadays.

But at its best, no one does what Timm and co managed with this. Not even with their other shows.

1- Looney Tunes

Over the past few months, I've been putting on some Looney Tunes shorts when I'm having dinner, and it's always a good time. Whether I'm seeing Avery, Clampett, and Tashlin change how these cartoons handled comedic timing, or masterpieces from Freleng and Jones, these are still the kings of cartoons.

But if I was to do this again, they wouldn't rank here at all. I think we need to remove theatrical cartoons entirely from this list. Just to make it a little more balanced at least, as Looney Tunes, Mickey Mouse, Tom and Jerry, Popeye, no matter how strong these were, they weren't series in the same way everything else here is. Plus, we should see what would be the new king if we have to let Bugs retire the throne. Probably not The Simpsons.

So there we go. Some series will probably be taken out if we do this again, but I'd like to save a good handful or two of these, even if they're in different places.

What would make it onto the next list? You'll just have to find out.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Yeah, EMH was fun but it seemed less a sign of greater thing and more a happy accident after what happened next to Marvel cartoons. A lot of the shows above I have happy memories of, but haven't rewatched in a while to have an informed enough opinion on. While the ones I do have a fresher opinion on I'm surprised aren't higher.

But it does seem like this site's mutual love affair with the first two series has died down considerably over the years.

It was interesting seeing a whole new Higurashi season come out recently, and none of the anime circles I see talked about it at all.

If anything, the movie helped to remind me of what worked about the series.

Oh yeah, the movie and the recent comic have done a ton of work ironing out some of the flaws the show had, especially late in its run.

And I think the attacks Matt and Trey get from the left are a little unfair, and very tiresome.

It's almost on the level of "Why doesn't Batman give free housing and jobs to his villains?" discourse. Recently been rewatching It's Always Sunny, and it also has a similar "both sides don't know what they're talking about and aren't noticing the real enemy" theme South Park has, and I'm interested why IASIP hasn't incurred the same bad take. You can't even blame it on seniority, because IASIP is also an old show at this point.

And I think the Jodie-oriented spin-off is probably a bad idea.

Still no news on that too.

Partly since Gargoyles is arguably a better example of strong writing for animation rather than strong storytelling with animation, especially compared to the main show it stands up to from the same period. That, and Young Justice's failings have soured me on Weisman's writing a smidge.

I admit that time and perhaps picking some wrong episodes to rewatch has only jaded my thoughts on Gargoyles. Can't even excuse the Avalon tour because I've seen people write comics that were nothing but backdoor pilots to other comics, but those were actually fun to read. I still appreciate the parts that most agree are unanimously good, but I do remember rewatching City of Stone recently and exasperatedly thinking "They could just chop off Demona's head or throw her into space like she's Kars. Come on, guys. if you don't want to kill her, there's other options."

I've seen it too many times and I've probably taken everything from it that I can.

There's always 3.0+1.0, whenever that leaks or comes out in America.

And it does bug me that it's appeared on so few of these lists.

Yeah, that confuses me too. EEnE is still talked about and enjoyed plenty enough that it's far from an underrated gem, but not enough to give it a seat on these lists.

it's an indictment of the book report adaptation, as it doesn't really offer you anything you couldn't experience from the original manga.

Monster is like the anime equivalent of listening to an audiobook at .5X reading speed. It's still good, but you can absolutely just read the manga instead, and that's probably why Urasawa's seen few adaptations since. Wasn't a Pluto anime supposed to come out years ago?

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yeah, our list is a product of our feelings at that time, but it's a really interesting time capsule of how we felt about animation a decade or so ago.

Surprisingly, I'm still on-board with a lot of our choices on this list, albeit with certain placements re-arranged.

I'll respond to a few of Avaitor's thoughts:

65: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes- I just re-watched this series last year and it still mostly holds up. That said I actually think our placement was fine. The series got cut way too short and didn't get to live up to it's full potential, and while better than certain other shows ranked higher on our list, there are also shows that didn't make our list that I'd rank ahead of it. Still, it's one of the few bright spots in Marvel animation.

61. Hunter X Hunter (1999)- I still firmly stand by ranking tgis one over the 2011 version. I don't necessarily think it needs to place that much higher, but it covers the best parts of the story (IMO, since I have issues with Togashi's writing style from Greed Island onward), and actually effectively uses the medium of animation through good direction and music to adapt the source material. In many respects, I'd honestly consider it an improvement over the manga. The 2011 version is fine, but it's far too homogenized in it's look and style to any number of other shonen anime, most of tge music is actually pretty forgettable (IMO), and nothing about it's execution really urges me to revisit the anime after I've already seen it once. I more often go back to the manga or 1999 version, personally.

57. Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid- I honestly would just include the whole series here, along with Fumoffu and Invisible Victory, the latter of which is on par with TSR in terms of quality and the former which was a fun series of side stories. The first season is the weakest of the bunch, but on it's own is still fairly good and sets up all of the great stuff that happens in the later seasons.

56. Courage the Cowardly Dog- Agreed, it deserved to be higher. I didn't appreciate this series enough when I was younger.

55. Megas XLR- I'll be honest and say that while I used to love this show, I haven't ever gone back to it since we made this list. I have no clue if it would still hold up now or not.

52. Paranoia Agent- Having finally watched the show a couple of years back, yes, it deserved to be higher than we put it.

47. Death Note- I own the entire series on Blu-Ray and re-watched it in 2018, and it's definitely still a great show with excellent direction and music. Not to mention incredibly well voice-acted whether in Japanese or English. It suggests a bit from the final third of the show but even then manages to make what was rather drawn out in the manga into something genuinely entertaining, if not all that well written compared to what came before it. It's at a good spot on the list, all of those things considered.

45. Great Teacher Onizuka- This one is tricky. I haven't re-watched it in full in a long time, but have re-visited my favorite moments several time and have no issue believing that it holds up in terms of overall quality. The issue is really in how people would take the inclusion of a series like this given today's societal norms. Onizuka is effectively a fully grown adult who clearly has a desire to sleep with underage hugh school girls, and much of tge show's initial humor revolves around that. Granted, he obviously never gets his way, is not rewarded for that kind of behavior, and the series is clearly about deeper and more meaningful themes than that running gag. Still, it's at the forefront of the show's surface-level humor, and it's something I'd at least put a disclaimer on if we were to make a list like this today and decide to include it. It'd definitely be too much for some people. Personally, I still love the show and original run of the manga, though.

44. Avatar: The Last Airbender- My previous biases against this show were stupid and I was stupid for trying to deny it a higher placement on the list. I can admit when I have been wrong about something and that definitely applies here. It deserves to be a top 10, or at the very least a top 20 contender.

41. Johnny Bravo- Yeah, I won't lie, I love this show out of nostalgia. Taking that out of the equation, it doesn't really belong on this list. It's something with a very specific sense of humor that works for someone like me who grew up with it, but I'd have a hard time recommending it to someone else these days.

I'll comment on a few more picks at a later time.

[Avaitor]

But it does seem like this site's mutual love affair with the first two series has died down considerably over the years.

It was interesting seeing a whole new Higurashi season come out recently, and none of the anime circles I see talked about it at all.

Oh yeah, that did happen, didn't it? I know nothing about it whatsoever.

If anything, the movie helped to remind me of what worked about the series.

Oh yeah, the movie and the recent comic have done a ton of work ironing out some of the flaws the show had, especially late in its run.

Yeah, I should probably check out the comic.

But it does seem like Jhonen is in a better place, and he doesn't seem to resent the show's legacy anymore. Good for him.

And I think the attacks Matt and Trey get from the left are a little unfair, and very tiresome.

It's almost on the level of "Why doesn't Batman give free housing and jobs to his villains?" discourse. Recently been rewatching It's Always Sunny, and it also has a similar "both sides don't know what they're talking about and aren't noticing the real enemy" theme South Park has, and I'm interested why IASIP hasn't incurred the same bad take. You can't even blame it on seniority, because IASIP is also an old show at this point.

That's valid, Always Sunny does often go into both sidesism like South Park, but that mostly gets a pass, and is generally liked by the left. I wonder if the Sunny crew going out of their way to course correct some of their more embarrassing moments from past episodes, like bleeping out the R-word and turning the "Mac is gay" running joke into a serious trait about the character has redeemed it for fans, while Matt and Trey are less likely to do that.

I can't say that I agree with everything Matt and Trey have said and written, but spending enough time looking at liberal Twitter does make me more empathetic towards their dislike of the left.

I've seen it too many times and I've probably taken everything from it that I can.

There's always 3.0+1.0, whenever that leaks or comes out in America.

Yeah, it's mostly the original series that I've exhausted. Although I do still need to watch 3.0, I guess.

And it does bug me that it's appeared on so few of these lists.

Yeah, that confuses me too. EEnE is still talked about and enjoyed plenty enough that it's far from an underrated gem, but not enough to give it a seat on these lists.

I get that EEnE is not to everyone's taste, but it seems deliberate that the show is often left out of these lists.

And frankly, no matter how cynical the show could get, there's no world where Foster's Home is better.

it's an indictment of the book report adaptation, as it doesn't really offer you anything you couldn't experience from the original manga.

Monster is like the anime equivalent of listening to an audiobook at .5X reading speed. It's still good, but you can absolutely just read the manga instead, and that's probably why Urasawa's seen few adaptations since. Wasn't a Pluto anime supposed to come out years ago?

Yeah, I think the Pluto adaptation is still happening, and to be fair, I'm sure that'll look good in motion.

But yeah, I can't think of a reason to recommend the Monster anime vs the manga. Especially since Viz only released one DVD set and let the rights lapse, while the manga is easily available.

[Avaitor]

Yeah, our list is a product of our feelings at that time, but it's a really interesting time capsule of how we felt about animation a decade or so ago.

Yeah, that's why I'm all for doing a new one. It's cool to see what we thought of as higher tier back then, and what was considered the standard at the time.

But these are also a lot of work, and a lot of these would require some refreshing.

65: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes- I just re-watched this series last year and it still mostly holds up. That said I actually think our placement was fine. The series got cut way too short and didn't get to live up to it's full potential, and while better than certain other shows ranked higher on our list, there are also shows that didn't make our list that I'd rank ahead of it. Still, it's one of the few bright spots in Marvel animation.

I started a rewatch last year, but put it on hold for whatever reason. It's not a perfect show, but I dunno, I think it had a good run. I would have liked another season, but it still had twice as many episodes as Spectacular Spider-Man.

61. Hunter X Hunter (1999)- I still firmly stand by ranking tgis one over the 2011 version. I don't necessarily think it needs to place that much higher, but it covers the best parts of the story (IMO, since I have issues with Togashi's writing style from Greed Island onward), and actually effectively uses the medium of animation through good direction and music to adapt the source material. In many respects, I'd honestly consider it an improvement over the manga. The 2011 version is fine, but it's far too homogenized in it's look and style to any number of other shonen anime, most of tge music is actually pretty forgettable (IMO), and nothing about it's execution really urges me to revisit the anime after I've already seen it once. I more often go back to the manga or 1999 version, personally.

It seems like a minority opinion to prefer the 1999 anime over the 2011, but I think you make a valid point on the first series using the artform to its advantage. I do like the last couple of arcs the 2011 adapts, which is why I'm a little more positive towards the 2011 series, but I know that Chimera Ant in particular tends to divide fans.

The one thing I'd say 2011 has over the original is a much better dub. I tried watching some of the 99 dub again not too long ago, and I just couldn't.

57. Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid- I honestly would just include the whole series here, along with Fumoffu and Invisible Victory, the latter of which is on par with TSR in terms of quality and the former which was a fun series of side stories. The first season is the weakest of the bunch, but on it's own is still fairly good and sets up all of the great stuff that happens in the later seasons.

Invisible Victory was terrific, and it's a shame that there doesn't seem to be much hope for another series to wrap up the first series of books. Although I do think TSR is the best of the shows (IV didn't have as much breathing room in comparison, and felt exhausting at certain points), I think putting the whole franchise together is probably for the best, yes.

45. Great Teacher Onizuka- This one is tricky. I haven't re-watched it in full in a long time, but have re-visited my favorite moments several time and have no issue believing that it holds up in terms of overall quality. The issue is really in how people would take the inclusion of a series like this given today's societal norms. Onizuka is effectively a fully grown adult who clearly has a desire to sleep with underage hugh school girls, and much of tge show's initial humor revolves around that. Granted, he obviously never gets his way, is not rewarded for that kind of behavior, and the series is clearly about deeper and more meaningful themes than that running gag. Still, it's at the forefront of the show's surface-level humor, and it's something I'd at least put a disclaimer on if we were to make a list like this today and decide to include it. It'd definitely be too much for some people. Personally, I still love the show and original run of the manga, though.

Yeah, I really don't know how well this would fly today. It seems like younger anime fans have less patience for pervy stuff, especially with underage characters involved. I don't really blame them, but like you said, the show doesn't reward or smile upon Onizuka's libido, either.

Also, remember when JO was good? He gave a pretty solid and well-balanced review of the show. Or at least that's how I remember it. I don't really look back at his stuff anymore.

44. Avatar: The Last Airbender- My previous biases against this show were stupid and I was stupid for trying to deny it a higher placement on the list. I can admit when I have been wrong about something and that definitely applies here. It deserves to be a top 10, or at the very least a top 20 contender.

Yeah, same here. People weren't happy with Avatar's placement at the time, and they were right to be upset.

41. Johnny Bravo- Yeah, I won't lie, I love this show out of nostalgia. Taking that out of the equation, it doesn't really belong on this list. It's something with a very specific sense of humor that works for someone like me who grew up with it, but I'd have a hard time recommending it to someone else these days.

Yeah, I see what you mean. Dexter and Powerpuff were bigger for a reason, and Johnny does seem to get the shaft compared to other earlier CN shows today. Part of that is because like Onizuka, I can see how he'd make some people uncomfortable, even if again, the show doesn't approve of his attitude towards women. Also, I think he's a little more respectful than that, but that's also because this was a children's show, and they'd only allow so much from their protagonist.

On top of that, the humor isn't quite as agreeable as most of CN's other shows from that era. Dexter and PPG were a little more subtle with their Gen X-oriented references, while Van Partible just dumped Don Knotts and Donny Osmond onto the show like he expected kids to know who they are. That worked for Scooby-Doo, but I can see the Adam West crossover not be as big of a deal with most kids at the time. But I personally liked this stuff, and I think that the cast was solid across the board. I'd still vouch to keep the show on the list, even if it's a lot lower.

[Dr. Insomniac]

As for the top five...

King of the Hill: I haven't watch an episode in a while, but yeah, it is comfort food. The kind of show anybody can easily approach and get a laugh out of. Definitely not trying to be something like Bojack, and this is no disrespect to Bojack because that show and KOTH are doing different things to great effect. It did have a peak and slide downhill similar to other Fox cartoons, I think that point was around the Japan 2-parter, and the character plots did become a formula after a while ("Bill finds a new thing that makes him happy but it makes him an asshole", "Hank finds new trend and gets mad at it", "Cotton comes to town and acts like a senile asshole until Hank calms him down"), but it was still watchable. Bob's Burgers is arguably in the same position KOTH was in late in its life, and it's curious to see how long that lasts.

Rocky and Bullwinkle: It's a show I watched a little of as a kid, and definitely knew about enough that I can imagine June Foray's Rocky voice as much as anyone who saw the show, but I'm not the right person who can argue why it's a classic.

Simpsons: I don't have anything new to say about the golden years of the show, but I did notice today people are angry at the Simpsons/Loki crossover. I agree it's annoying synergy, but let's not pretend The Simpsons was ever above that. Simpsons became a mainstream fixture as soon as the first season, and we got plenty of crossovers with other popular subjects like Do the Bartman and the X-Files crossover. Sure, some episodes riffed on the thing they crossed over with, but plenty didn't, even in the good years. This is just the latest in a long line of attention grabs.

Batman The Animated Series: On the contrary, I think its influence is greater than ever thanks to DC pushing Harley harder than they ever have, Kevin Conroy recently showing up in live-action, and Tom King's ongoing Batman comic that's more or less a sequel to Mask of the Phantasm. WB/DC definitely hasn't forgotten it, even if action cartoons don't resemble BTAS anymore and see more influence from something like Avatar or Gravity Falls instead.

Looney Tunes: Been recently watching this guy's videos on LT's history, and it's been a fun series. Think Defunctland but with Bugs. As for myself, I'm not sure. Part of me acknowledges how great these shorts are, another wants to be subversive and place something else at #1 to piss off old guard Komorowskiesque animation fans but I don't know what, and then there's the other side thinking "God, a lot of kids are going to have Space Jam 2 be their gateway into Looney Tunes".

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

To add to what I previously said about Hunter X Hunter 1999 being my preferred version of the series, I think it was really telling to see Totally Not Mark's blind reviews of all three versions of the series. He went through this story for the first time but compared and contrasted all three versions as he went through each arc, without any pre-conceived biases about which was the optimal version to experience. Almost every single time he brought up a direct comparison he noted how much more the 99 version had a feeling or authorship and personality to it that the 11 anime lacked. And he didn't shit on the current series, either, but noted how it didn't do much more than plainly adapt the manga, and since he was a viewer he tended to prefer reading over watching things that didn't end up being his preferred version of the story, whereas the 99 anime was interesting to him as an interpretation of the source material rather than a copy/paste. For my own thoughts, I like the 11 anime just fine, and don't meant to come off like it's bad in any significant way. However, I also can't deny that I never really feel the need to revisit it, whereas I have revisited several of my favorite moments of the 99 version over the past few years. If I ever want to go through a full arc again I tend to refer to the manga (which is better than many people give it credit for). While liking the 11 version is by far the most popular opinion on this series, I truly believe that it's because most people were introduced to this series through that version and either have not seen the 99 version or had their opinions influenced negatively on it by bad word of mouth by people who don't tend to care about anything other than directly adapting the source material without any artistic flourishes whatsoever. If we were to do this list again, I would make all of this abundantly clear in my write-up for the series and defiantly defend my stance on placing the 99 version over the 11 version.

Anyways, long tangent aside, here are a few more comments:

40. Fullmetal Alchemist- Agreed with Avaitor on this one. I believe we felt pressured to put this one one here given how popular of a choice it was and since it would generally be expected. If I've learned one thing since the time that we made this original list, it's that forcibly trying to meet other people's expectations rather than being true to your own opinion just doesn't work. It doesn't lead to an interesting list and an entry like that will feel hollow since nobody could write anything genuine about why they love the series. As far as I can recall, nobody involved with the original list was a particularly big fan of FMA to begin with (though if I'm wrong, by all means feel free to correct me), and it just didn't make sense to include it back then, and would make even less sense to include it now (and yes, that included Brotherhood as well). I think FMA is a well-made story that is fine for one read or watch depending on which version you pick. However, I have never felt a need to revisit it past that, and yes, I have read the entire manga and watched all of Brotherhood, so I've experienced the full story twice and it just doesn't impress me that much. If someone making the list really loves it and could write a passionate peace about it, then I'd be fine with keeping it, otherwise it could be left off if we were to do one now.

39. Batman: The Brave & the Bold- Admittedly, I haven't seen this show in several years, so I couldn't judge it's quality too accurately, but I adored it back when I watched it. I don't feel like I'd have any issues with it holding up on a re-watch, so I feel like it's placement is justified, but again, I couldn't say for sure. If I didn't have so many other series that I was mixed into at the moment, I'd be happy to give it a re-watch now. That said, I can only go based on memory for this one, and in that regard, I think it's pretty great.

38- The Spectacular Spider-Man- I re-watched this last year actually, sometime after Far From Home (which helped highlight a lot of my issues with that movie in retrospect) and I can confirm it holds up incredibly well. No joke, I'd actually put it higher on the list, myself. It also helps that it got a strange resurgence in discussion over the past few years, with several YouTubers highlighting why it was not just a great Spider-Man show, but one of the best superhero shows ever.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Think that resurgence is because SSM fans saw a Weisman show finally come back from the dead, and they think it's their turn even when Weisman himself said it would take a ton of legal bullshit to even consider bringing it back. And all the shows since. The 2017 cartoon was such a nothing show from the episodes I watched, and any good will USM got with age is flushed down the toilet now that that Spider-Man's VA is an admitted child groomer. Seen a lot of love for the 90s animated series too. Similar to the way the Raimi movies have been re-evaluated, Spidey fans have grown to laugh with the "SHOCKER!!! YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME!!! I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH!!!" moments than at them.

[Avaitor]

The funny thing is, Greg Weisman is normally a believer. He kept getting fans to support Young Justice until it got the renewal he thought was possible, and he's still pushing to get one of his Gargoyles spin-offs off the ground in some way. If he thinks that SSM can never return, you should listen to him.