Avatar

[Spark Of Spirit]

Yeah, it's a bit disjointed plot wise, but I mostly picked it for all the great character moments in it.

[gunswordfist]

So here it is, my top 10 Avatar episodes. (I like to count two parters as a single story, so no individual parts here)

The Boiling Rock
City Of Walls & Secrets
Lake Laogai
Day Of The Black Sun
Siege Of The North
Zuko Alone
The Blue Spirit
Jet
The Blind Bandit
The Desert

Honestly, those ten episodes are enough for me to consider Avatar a great series, but they are some of the best episodes that Nick has ever aired. While the show as a whole has weaknesses, these episodes prove that when it wants to be, Avatar is easily comparable to the classics in its own way.

Ties up with what I'm about to post.

Last week Nicktoons Network showed Zuko Alone, The Blue Spirit, The Storm and Avatar and The Firelord. I unfortunately I only saw half of Avatar and The Firelord. I wanted to see it after seeing the first 3 said episodes. The Zuko/Aang episodes are so incredible (and Zuko Alone is in there too). Speaking of Zuko Alone, the "Azula always lies." part got to me. Scary thing...she never lied in that episode despite every horrible thing she said.

Anyway, like I said, I like the episodes that are both Aang and Zuko's. Zuko is the type of villain I've been waiting to see for a long time. Well I saw a similar one in Saiyuki but that shows sucks. Erm, I've been sick of heartless villains for a long time. Yes I know Zuko isn't a villain for most of the show but he played the part the way I've always wanted to see it. He's obviously my favorite Avatar character.

What else? Yeesterday they showed The Boiling Rock and Sozin's Comet back to back in movie form (!!!) I DVRed both. Fuck yes. I noticed even more little things about The Boiling Rock (Did Sokka always have his sword, which no other guard has, the whole time? I paid it no attention until the riot. I rewatch to check. How the hell where they going to get out of the boiling water?) Despite what I just said, I thoroughly love The Boiling Rock. Probably my favorite multiparter now if not favorite episodes.

What else? I'm loving the first season even more now. It's not as filler ridden as I remembered. They go on some pretty good adventures. Once I think about it, it's clearly the most adventure heavy season. Season 2 had Losing Appa and Ba Sing Se slow it down and Book Fire was about character episodes. I'll try to do my favorite episodes, in no order

The Boiling Rock
The Avatar & The Firelord
Zuko Alone (This has to be an award winning episode.)
The Blue Spirit (Archers, underused)
The Storm (The only episode where Zuko shows leadership qualities. His jump to Firelord seems kind of strange because of this. Just saying.)
Siege Of The North
Sozin's Comet
Day Of The Black Sun
Jet (Terrorism...holy crap!)
Lake Laogai (Dai Li, underused)

I took about how Zuko at the end of season 2 should have been handled later.

[gunswordfist]

Really good. I might switch "Jet" with "The Storm" and maybe "The Desert" with either "The Chase", but that looks pretty similar to my list.

I'd say that "Zuko Alone" would be my top choice overall. It really contains all the best qualities of the character, and shows just why he's the most interesting on the show.

The Chase? Hmmm, the only time the entire team fights together. I am not sure if Katara being a complete bitch was a plus or a minus. But yeah, The Storm MUST go in there. Wasn't that the first time Zuko did something kind? I wish he got his crew back....or did Aang kill them in Siege Of The North?

You're right about Zuko's character arc. From season 1's premiere up to the Guru, he changed from outright villain to anti-hero and was about to turn into a hero until it was pointlessly derailed until Day Of The Black Sun. Even though I say 'villain', he was never really a 'bad guy' just a soldier doing terrible thing on order without realizing it.

I liked the contrast they made with him and Jet who both came from the same place but from opposite sides of the coin. In many ways, though, Jet was what would have became of Zuko if he continued down the same path and continued to be consumed by his own selfish goals. It was a good story arc in season 2 and ended really well in Lake Laogai and CoW&S when we really learned just how far Jet had fallen and how much Zuko had changed.

That's pretty much why I don't like the finale, to hammer a tired point one last time, which while plot wise felt too convenient how literally nothing went wrong for Azula despite how much she couldn't possibly call, the capper was turning Zuko back into where he was in the first episode as if nothing that happened to this point mattered. Then the first half of season 3 does nothing with him until Day Of The Black Sun (the speech he gave should have been what he said in Crossroads) brings him back to where we left off suddenly.

I also thought his relationship with Mai was really forced considering how he acted so weird around females in season 2, but that actually lead to something in the show's best episode, so I let it slide.

So The Boiling Rock is your favorite?  During I believe the last two times I watched the episode, I loved the look Mai gave Zuko through the door when he ran away. Pretty intense.

[gunswordfist]

Other than Day of Black Sun, I agree with your list Desen. (Something about DoBS just doesn't feel right. The events in and of themselves are good, but I think it's the pacing that kills it for me. Not too sure.)

Those episodes are a bit off for me as well. I think they'd be at the bottom of the list and I'm thinking about replacing it with The Blind Bandit.

[Spark Of Spirit]

See, for me there's a difference of smart pacing. Season 1's flow felt very stilted to me since it was basically episodic with random story progression throughout (not so much filler, though that is there) but it had some excellent episodes by the end and easily the best season finale in the show.

Season 2 has great pacing. Just check out the episodes:

"The Avatar State" (Filler and very season 1-ish, one of my least favorite episodes)
"The Cave of Two Lovers" (Character development leading up to:)
"Return to Omashu" (Great episode)
"The Swamp" (Too slow for my tastes, but this does have stuff that comes into play later, so it isn't really filler)
"Avatar Day" (Filler)
"The Blind Bandit" (This is when season 2 gets awesome and basically stays that way)
"Zuko Alone" (Yep)
"The Chase" (Same)
"Bitter Work" (Nice character development)
"The Library" (Great world building and plot progression)
"The Desert" (Fantastic)
"The Serpent's Pass" (Great adventure episode)
"The Drill" (Great action episode)
"City of Walls and Secrets" (Fantastic build up)
"Tales of Ba Sing Se" (Perfect use of character development and world building)
"Appa's Lost Days" (Smart idea for world building and plot progression)
"Lake Laogai" (Basically part two of Walls & Secrets which wouldn't work without the world building we just saw)
"The Earth King" (This is when it starts to slide for me a bit, the Dai Li as a group is simply too cut throat to be trusted as much as they are and that annoyance comes back in a big way in the finale)
"The Guru" (This has a lot of good build up)
"The Crossroads of Destiny" (Such a miss. The Dai Li and Long Feng are fucking wasted purely to prop up Azula, Aang losing the Avatar State was forced, Zuko's progression derailed, the fights are all boring, it just doesn't stack up to anything else in the season)

Yep, Boiling Rock is my favorite episode. It had literally everything I like about Avatar, oddly enough without Aang, who I really like.

But season 2 definitely is the peak of the show. Season 3 in comparison takes too long to get going and has a lot of stuff that could have happened a lot earlier, and probably should have considering all that happened in season 2. On the plus side, everything after Day Of The Black Sun pretty much stays awesome.

Ever notice that Avatar is the one action show where the premiere episodes never seem all that exciting? I mean the premiere of season 1 was, it kind of had to be, but season 2 and 3 seem to get off to a rolling start.

[gunswordfist]

See, for me there's a difference of smart pacing. Season 1's flow felt very stilted to me since it was basically episodic with random story progression throughout (not so much filler, though that is there) but it had some excellent episodes by the end and easily the best season finale in the show.

Season 2 has great pacing. Just check out the episodes:

"The Avatar State" (Filler and very season 1-ish, one of my least favorite episodes)
"The Cave of Two Lovers" (Character development leading up to:)
"Return to Omashu" (Great episode)
"The Swamp" (Too slow for my tastes, but this does have stuff that comes into play later, so it isn't really filler)
"Avatar Day" (Filler)
"The Blind Bandit" (This is when season 2 gets awesome and basically stays that way)
"Zuko Alone" (Yep)
"The Chase" (Same)
"Bitter Work" (Nice character development)
"The Library" (Great world building and plot progression)
"The Desert" (Fantastic)
"The Serpent's Pass" (Great adventure episode)
"The Drill" (Great action episode)
"City of Walls and Secrets" (Fantastic build up)
"Tales of Ba Sing Se" (Perfect use of character development and world building)
"Appa's Lost Days" (Smart idea for world building and plot progression)
"Lake Laogai" (Basically part two of Walls & Secrets which wouldn't work without the world building we just saw)
"The Earth King" (This is when it starts to slide for me a bit, the Dai Li as a group is simply too cut throat to be trusted as much as they are and that annoyance comes back in a big way in the finale)
"The Guru" (This has a lot of good build up)
"The Crossroads of Destiny" (Such a miss. The Dai Li and Long Feng are fucking wasted purely to prop up Azula, Aang losing the Avatar State was forced, Zuko's progression derailed, the fights are all boring, it just doesn't stack up to anything else in the season)

Yep, Boiling Rock is my favorite episode. It had literally everything I like about Avatar, oddly enough without Aang, who I really like.

But season 2 definitely is the peak of the show. Season 3 in comparison takes too long to get going and has a lot of stuff that could have happened a lot earlier, and probably should have considering all that happened in season 2. On the plus side, everything after Day Of The Black Sun pretty much stays awesome.

Ever notice that Avatar is the one action show where the premiere episodes never seem all that exciting? I mean the premiere of season 1 was, it kind of had to be, but season 2 and 3 seem to get off to a rolling start.

Sounds like I need to rewatch The Avatar State. I haven't seen it in awhile and it's one of the episodes I've seen the least amount of times so I never really got to forming an opinion about it. I hate Cave Of Two Lovers. Burn baby burn.

I completely forgot what Bitter Work was about.

I actually don't care for the desert episodes and every Ba Sing Se episode that's not LL or Appa's unexpected episode. I thought they were too slow for me. The gang being halted after finally reaching BSS didn't go well with me.

I no longer have a favorite out of Season 1 and 2. Used to easily be Season 2 but I am loving the adventure episodes in season one, even though they are disjointed and imo, Zuko is at his best in season one. Besides Zuko Alone and The Boiling Rock, it's kind of a landslide for me.

Crap, I remember Bitter Work now. Nice episode. Katara saw that not being a bitch to Toph has it advantages.

Speaking of world building, uh Whaletail Island...what was there again? I remember something important was there and I loved how they did that. I forgot what it was.

The Earth King had no reason not to trust the Dai Li. Not sure why that was a complaint. Coverups is how they have all that power. I remember it being a slow episode after arguably the best action sequence in Nick history. I believe NTN is on The Drill now so I'll get to reevaluate everything about Ba Sing Se starting Monday, I believe.

[Spark Of Spirit]

No, I mean everyone just sort of forgives the Dai Li including the gang after they arrest Long Feng. That seems pretty out of character for both Sokka and Toph to just let them wander free again without any sort of objections. The king forgiving them makes sense since he's ignorant to the whole thing, but you'd figure the gang (other than Aang since he forgives everyone) would be a little bit more inquisitive about them.

Then they basically betray the Earth Kingdom, the land they were born to protect, and their city to the Fire Nation because macguffin. I just don't like how the Dai Li were used plotwise despite really liking them in the episodes where they were actually used effectively since after season 2 they basically disappear.

I think Aang mentioned Whaletail island in one of the early episodes when he was pointing out places on the map.

[gunswordfist]

No, I mean everyone just sort of forgives the Dai Li including the gang after they arrest Long Feng. That seems pretty out of character for both Sokka and Toph to just let them wander free again without any sort of objections. The king forgiving them makes sense since he's ignorant to the whole thing, but you'd figure the gang (other than Aang since he forgives everyone) would be a little bit more inquisitive about them.

Then they basically betray the Earth Kingdom, the land they were born to protect, and their city to the Fire Nation because macguffin. I just don't like how the Dai Li were used plotwise despite really liking them in the episodes where they were actually used effectively since after season 2 they basically disappear.

I think Aang mentioned Whaletail island in one of the early episodes when he was pointing out places on the map.

I was talking about when the Dai Li made them think Appa was at Whaletail island and iirc, they actually went there later on. I forgot why.

Anyway, I have to watch The Earth King again. I don't remember that.

[gunswordfist]

I watched City Of Walls & Secrets earlier today. Good episode even though it sets up how freaking slow BSS is.

We get to see Zuko's very last sword fight. I wish he got to do more of that (and the flame daggers (not the whips) and his breakdance kicks). I love how completely stupid Aang and Sokka are in CoWAS. It's so hilarious.

[gunswordfist]

They just showed The Boiling Rock again and I watched it again.

I liked the preview for part one where they showed Sokka talking to Azula about Suki and telling his Dad bye which I just watched when I watched the end of DOTBS before that. How the hell did Chet Zang (sp?) get his girlfriend and best buddy out of there.  I wish Hakoda got to fight.

Anyway, I've been thinking for awhile....they just let some giant prisoner who got incarcerated for an unknown crime in Chet Zang stay with them because....? Don't know how Mai and Ty Lee got captured by those guards. Ty Lee took down an army of earth benders by herslef and I checked and Mai just beat the very same guards a couple of minutes ago.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I think they just let him stay with them because they helped each other out and most of the criminals in the Boiling Rock were wrongfully incarcerated in the first place and its not like if he was a real bad guy he could do much against all of them.

As for Mai and Ty Lee, well they were trapped. They could have fought back and beat a lot of the guards, but they still had no where to go as the gondola was already on the other side. Ty Lee also didn't hit Azula hard enough as she was back on her feet pretty fast, and I don't think they could have taken on the entire guard and Azula at the same time anyway.

I still think the whole BSS arc is the best part of the show, but Boiling Rock is still the best episode.

[gunswordfist]

I think they just let him stay with them because they helped each other out and most of the criminals in the Boiling Rock were wrongfully incarcerated in the first place and its not like if he was a real bad guy he could do much against all of them.

As for Mai and Ty Lee, well they were trapped. They could have fought back and beat a lot of the guards, but they still had no where to go as the gondola was already on the other side. Ty Lee also didn't hit Azula hard enough as she was back on her feet pretty fast, and I don't think they could have taken on the entire guard and Azula at the same time anyway.

I still think the whole BSS arc is the best part of the show, but Boiling Rock is still the best episode.

I believe Azula was helped back up and no way her bending was back. I know they could have beaten everyone up and ran on the gondola wire (well okay maybe not Mai). They obviously got easily captured to set up Azula's fall. And yeah I was thinking the same thing about Chet Zang. Just a thought.

I don't like Aang vs bureaucracy...erm I mean the Ba Sing Se arc that much. Annoying roadblock.

[gunswordfist]

One thing I've been noticing: This show is RUTHLESS when it comes to blind jokes. Especially the insult Azula and Katara said about Toph's blindness. That was cruel. I like how Toph says endless jokes about her being blind. That makes up for all those Godawful rock n roll jokes.

[Avaitor]

"Too bad you can't see it, Toph!"

That scene sealed the deal in my hatred for Katara.

[gunswordfist]

  Good man