Batman: The Animated Series

[talonmalon333]

The Batman Beyond episode with Freeze was great, but a part of me still wonders how it would have been if his story arc just ended with SubZero.

Cold Comfort should have never been made. HIGHLY unnecessary episode.

I will never understand those who hate Over the Edge, though. The episode is mostly about Barbara and her doubts about what she has chosen to hide from her father and that she would set all this off was definitely her greatest fear. Let's be honest, if this was real the show would be over.

Maybe that's the thing for people. They write a story so intense with such incredible high stakes that there was simply no way out other than pulling the dream card.

As for me, I think the ending is perfect. So that idea has nothing to do with what I think.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I think of the Batman Beyond episode as more of an epilogue to his story. I would rather prefer his proper story ended at Sub Zero.

Over the Edge isn't about anything other than Barbara's worst nightmare, it was the reason everything was put into action. If you take her out of the equation you just have things happening because things are happening and it becomes a mindless action show.

[talonmalon333]

I think of the Batman Beyond episode as more of an epilogue to his story. I would rather prefer his proper story ended at Sub Zero.

The reason I wonder is because, had his story ended with SubZero, it would have been completely different. He would have gotten a nicer ending.

Over the Edge isn't about anything other than Barbara's worst nightmare, it was the reason everything was put into action. If you take her out of the equation you just have things happening because things are happening and it becomes a mindless action show.

Like I said, I personally know that. I'm just saying that apparently a lot of people liked it before we learned it was Barbara's worst nightmare.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I think without the Batman Beyond episode he would have never gotten death as it was implied that he would have lived forever as he was. I don't think that would have been a particularly great life for him living alone forever. I think for an epilogue, the Batman Beyond episode gives him the final chance at life he wanted and the death he could finally have even if he still can't come to grips with who he is.

If they brought him back after that it would have been worse than Cold Comfort.

[talonmalon333]

Overall, I think the absolute ideal scenario would be to leave his story with SubZero, and then end it with the Batman Beyond episode. That New Batman Adventures episode nearly weakened his arc for me.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Seeing what Avaitor's covered so far, TNBA isn't quite as strong as I remember it being even on my last watch. There are some excellent episodes, but I mean he still hasn't even covered the worst and there isn't a whole lot of greatness here to be had even on these discs.

Maybe if they had a second season it would have improved but it's easily the weakest part of BTAS to me.

[Avaitor]

I'll get to the last batch of episodes later, but I think the problem with TNBA is that Timm and crew just weren't that good at villain-of-the-week stories. Superman's best episodes tended to focus on his mythology and the character's sci-fi roots rather than Lex or whoever he was facing that episode, while Batman's best are usually more psychological and tend to have some sort of mystery to solve. Proving this belief, TNBA's best episodes are mostly the darker ones that would fit right in with the Fox Kids episodes.

At the end of the day, I would have welcomed another season, but I think it was for the best that they dropped the show to focus on Beyond instead.

[talonmalon333]

Maybe if they had a second season it would have improved but it's easily the weakest part of BTAS to me.

I think anyone would agree with that opinion.

I'd say it's probably lower tier DCAU in general.

[Avaitor]

Might as well finish the show

Volume 4, Disc 3

"Mean Seasons"- Standard episode with a decently powerful ending. This just isn't an episode that makes enough of an impact one way or the other to say much more.

"Critters"- This episode is fucking crazy! And kind of stupid, but that's part of the fun. I can't say that I hate it, even though it's not technically a good episode at all. But I understand why most people do.

"Cult of the Cat"- From what I can recall, this is the one of the only TNBA episodes to not have the rest of the Bat family in it. Being a Catwoman episode though, that isn't really a good thing, since it's kind of flat. But the lack of Batgirl and the boys do make this a welcome change of pace, so there is some good here.

"Animal Act"- Nightwing has had by far the least amount of representation of the Batfamily in this series, which makes sense, since Dick is supposed to be distant to Bruce, but they do try to rectify this by the end of the show's run. This episode takes Dick back to the circus, which is pretty interesting, but hardly worthy of being a classic, considering how otherwise by the books it is. But still, credit to trying to give Nightwing something to do for a change.

"Old Wounds"- Speaking of Nightwing, this episode delves into just why Dick quit being the original Robin and took his own agenda, as well as how Barbara cracked Batman's code. It's a lot more exciting than the previous episode, but I still wouldn't really call it one of the show's best, since it all kind of meanders around a lot.

"The Demon Within"- Kind of cool, kind of forgettable, this episode is oddly but surprisingly delightfully disjointed.

Volume 4, Disc 4-

"Legends of the Dark Knight"- Now this one, this is a bona-fide classic. In this episode, we get to see a few different eras of Batman's legacy brought into nice animation here, including the golden age and Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns. And yeah, there's even a Schumacher jab! The ending is somewhat expected, but not bad at all.

"Girls' Night Out"- Superman had a couple of crossover appearances with Batman and his cast on S:TAS,  and here we get the favor returned a bit with Supergirl teaming up with Batgirl to take on Livewire, who's also teamed up, this time with Harley and Ivy. You could probably guess the idea of the episode based on the title alone, but hey, that's where the fun is. This isn't dumbed down for girls, since Timm and crew knew that the girls who watched this show like how it is to begin with, but gives the ladies their own fun little episode. Nothing wrong with that, as far as I'm concerned. This is one of my favorites of TNBA as a result.

"Mad Love"- This is the episode that would round out my top 5. Granted, I've heard from fans of the comic this episode is based off of (which actually came from B:TAS' tie-in comic book, and was even written by Dini, who remade the story for the screen) that the original is better, but I don't care. This is easily the best representation of Harley's complicated relationship with the Joker, as rough as it is. Sadly, she comes around by the end, but that's just a part of her character, as we all know. The episode is still a necessary watch.

"Chemistry"- This episode really throws you for a loop with the first two acts, making you think that Bruce can actually be happy, but then... Well, I don't want to spoil it. But this little oddity is a heck of a watch anyhow.

"Beware the Creeper"- See! Harley! But ooh, do I like this episode. The Creeper is basically the Joker with better, less deadly gags, which makes sense, since they share a similar origin. It's fun to watch all the way through, having a good combination of humor and action.

"Judgment Day"- As a finale or even just a regular episode in general, this is okay, nothing earth-shattering, but ultimately just not that strong or memorable. Which is sadly disappointing.

I don't really care too much for the last episode, but the last disc is the best of the 4 here. Sadly, the show wasn't the same here. Without the neo-noir elements or title cards, both of which were among the things to make B:TAS stand out, the atmosphere is mostly gone. It also feels like Timm, Dini and the gang were more interested in Superman at this point, which is why TNBA probably suffers as a result.

[talonmalon333]

Mad Love easily ranks with the best in the series.

What's next on the list, Avaitor?

EDIT:

Judgement Day is nothing special but I forgive it because it's not really Batman's finale.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Judgement Day would have worked if either Harvey died or Two Face never came back. Since it was the last episode we'll never really know if he came back, but I would like to think it was the end of Two Face in the DCAU.

To echo Talon, what are you doing next?

[talonmalon333]

Judgement Day would have worked if either Harvey died or Two Face never came back. Since it was the last episode we'll never really know if he came back, but I would like to think it was the end of Two Face in the DCAU.

Kind of a sad and lonely end for a man who had a chance.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Judgement Day would have worked if either Harvey died or Two Face never came back. Since it was the last episode we'll never really know if he came back, but I would like to think it was the end of Two Face in the DCAU.

Kind of a sad and lonely end for a man who had a chance.

Either he finally gets better or dies, either way going on as Two Face forever would be a worse fate.

[talonmalon333]

Judgement Day would have worked if either Harvey died or Two Face never came back. Since it was the last episode we'll never really know if he came back, but I would like to think it was the end of Two Face in the DCAU.

Kind of a sad and lonely end for a man who had a chance.

Either he finally gets better or dies, either way going on as Two Face forever would be a worse fate.

I agree. That's why I say Judgement Day is a sad episode to end his arc with. He's just left behind bars still lost in madness.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Judgement Day would have worked if either Harvey died or Two Face never came back. Since it was the last episode we'll never really know if he came back, but I would like to think it was the end of Two Face in the DCAU.

Kind of a sad and lonely end for a man who had a chance.

Either he finally gets better or dies, either way going on as Two Face forever would be a worse fate.

I agree. That's why I say Judgement Day is a sad episode to end his arc with. He's just left behind bars still lost in madness.

True. Though it's been awhile since I saw it but I recall Harvey saying he was going to get real help this time and see it through at the end. I'd like to believe that he did.