Batman: The Animated Series

[Avaitor]

I always assumed that it took place before TAOB&R and probably after the original 65 episode order, which would explain the lack of Robin.

[talonmalon333]

I always assumed that it took place before TAOB&R and probably after the original 65 episode order, which would explain the lack of Robin.

That's what I think these days.

Mask of the Phantasm = Pre-TAMB&R
Sub Zero = Pre-TNBA
Mystery of the Batwoman = Post-TNBA

[Avaitor]

Sub-Zero has to take place closer to the end of TAOB&R rather than anywhere near the beginning of TNBA, because

1- Dick is still Robin
2- He and Barbara have a relationship- in "Old Wounds", we find out just why that was never meant to be
3- Barb doesn't know about Bruce or Dick's identities yet (to my recollection- it's been a while since I last saw it)
4- And of course, no Tim

[talonmalon333]

I just assumed that it happened after TAOB&R but before Grayson quits.

Though the episodes of this series seem to always happen in the order of when they were created, so when I think about it, I imagine the movies are the same way alongside the episodes (Mask of the Phantasm likely happens after season 1 but before season 2, because that's when it was released). Problem is, Sub Zero was released years after its creation, and I can't find exactly when it was actually made and initially intended to be released.

[gunswordfist]

75 years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFwOS2R9o_8

[talonmalon333]

I was just thinking...

Alfred's "No One Could have Pulled Andrea from that Pit" Speech After Andrea's "Death" (Mask of the Phantasm) >>>>> Alfred's "You spat in the face of crime" Speech after Rachel's Death (The Dark Knight)

[gunswordfist]

Rachel sucked anyway.

[Avaitor]

Okay, so I rewatched "Judgement Day" not too long ago, and I was wrong. It's a lot better than I remembered. And probably a good place for the final BTAS episode.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Okay, so I rewatched "Judgement Day" not too long ago, and I was wrong. It's a lot better than I remembered. And probably a good place for the final BTAS episode.

Since Two Face never appeared after that in any DCAU show, I like to think that Harvey really was cured.

[talonmalon333]

I probably fall in between your previous and your current opinion, Avaitor. I think it's better than you originally gave it credit for, but I think they could've done better for a final episode.

Though I do remember one episode that ends with Harvey Dent talking to Batman saying that he's always been there for him and that he's going to try to find a way to get cured. Was that in Judgement Day? If so, then I take back my complaint.

I do give the episode a free pass cause it's really not the final episode, if you think about it. Though I wish we knew for sure what happened to Harvey.

[Spark Of Spirit]

The implication behind Judgement Day is that Two Face can't continue on. Harvey's sense of justice will kill him if he does, and the only way to stop it is for him to regain control of himself. The ending has Harvey telling Batman he will seek help to try and stop it. As a final episode it might not be perfect, but for Two Face's arc, I think it was one of the best.

To be honest, if Two Face actually did appear again after that episode it would have ruined it.

[Avaitor]

Yeah, I think I'm fine with this being the last episode of the show as an end to Two-Face's arc. We weren't done with this incarnation of Batman, so I'm glad that we didn't get a more specific finish for his story.

Although maybe something about Nightwing might have been better. It was hinted that Dick and Bruce's relationship worsened off even more, but we never got to know more.

[talonmalon333]

The implication behind Judgement Day is that Two Face can't continue on. Harvey's sense of justice will kill him if he does, and the only way to stop it is for him to regain control of himself. The ending has Harvey telling Batman he will seek help to try and stop it. As a final episode it might not be perfect, but for Two Face's arc, I think it was one of the best.

To be honest, if Two Face actually did appear again after that episode it would have ruined it.

When in the ending does Harvey tell Batman that? Are you sure you're not thinking of Second Chance?

We weren't done with this incarnation of Batman, so I'm glad that we didn't get a more specific finish for his story.

That's why, like I mentioned, it's really not the last episode. We still have countless episodes of Justice League and Beyond for Batman to appear in.

Though it's worth noting that, in the Justice Lords world, Two-Face still exists (which apparently exists further in the future compared to the Justice League world). But it's possible that they lobotomized him before he even got a chance to get help, which is one of the great tragedies of that world.

Although maybe something about Nightwing might have been better. It was hinted that Dick and Bruce's relationship worsened off even more, but we never got to know more.

Didn't they suggest that Nightwing is trying to come to terms with forgiveness toward Batman for everything that happened between them?

[Spark Of Spirit]

Yeah, in the Justice Lords world, he probably wasn't in the mood to give Harvey help.

As for the ending of Judgement Day, I remember a conversation of some sort near the end that implied if he didn't address his problem, it would kill him.

[Avaitor]

Didn't they suggest that Nightwing is trying to come to terms with forgiveness toward Batman for everything that happened between them?

Yeah, in TNBA. But Barbara mentions something about how Nightwing was another crazy story later on like Tim Drake in Return of the Joker, which had me wondering.