First Person Shooters: The Thread

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Take away the steam pipes and the fact that it's submerged in water and Rapture is basically just a spaceship from any other dark science fiction game. Both game worlds are heavily based on gimmicks. That's why people like them.

No, not at all. It doesn't work that way, because there is more to Rapture than just being submerged underwater and having steam-pipes. Every aspect of the city has some sort of meaning to it. For instance, the science of the city is clearly divergent from "our world's" technology. What I mean is that you have machines and entire environments that are built from Andrew Ryan's philosophy and vision, and how he strive'd for the type of utopia that he wanted to achieve for those who truly pursued science. In that regard Rapture had a clear theme to it, and as a result everything about it followed that theme. Additionally, everything just felt like it "fit" in with Rapture. The guns felt like they belonged specifically to that world, as did the machines, as well as each and every single room in the game. The enemies also really just fit in with that type of environment, from the splicers to the Big Daddies and Little Sisters. In BSI, most of these elements feel like they could fit into any other game and not be out of place. The guns don't look unique or original, nor do most of the environments (once again, other than the fact that they take place in the sky). I mean, I know that the whole theme of the game is based off a pseudo-mix between both colonial America with a steam-punk, early 1900's America, but the end result feels like just that, a mix of those elements. It doesn't, however, convince me of it as a unique society in the way that Rapture did.

Anyways, that's all just my personal opinion, of course. If you're going to talk smack about Rapture, its only fair game that I can defend it and talk smack about Columbia. Its all in the fun of just discussing games.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I actually feel the second game has the better gameplay, but the first has better everything else. The second game gets kicked around a bit too much, but if you look at it as a side-story (it isn't really a sequel) then it's pretty good for what it is.

Think he was talking about Infinite.

Yeah, but he sort of dismissed the second game totally, which isn't entirely fair.

It's not like it was DMC2 or something.

Dismissed? I just haven't played 2 is all. Neglecting to name it isn't an insult.

Sorry, I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. I just see 2 looked down on a lot these days and I'm kind of used to people ignoring it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Every room in the game is constructed in such a way as to appear as if it could actually be lived in. A lot of love went into the game's art and level design and I feel that it's unfair to say that Irrational was "up their own ass" when working on it.

Sorry. Admittedly I was a bit too harsh in saying that and didn't really mean that. I do however think that they were trying a bit too hard to be artistic, though. They put so much effort into making the art and level design of Columbia feel "real," which I can acknowledge and respect, but the point I should have made was that it didn't really feel like its own thing to me. That was basically my issue with it.

[Foggle]

I actually like Rapture outside of how colorless it is, it's just that we've already been there in two games and one DLC. However, the noir theme of the Infinite DLC has actually made me excited to visit it again. When I mentioned that Rapture was "boring", I wasn't really talking about its history; just how dark and gray/green it is. I vastly prefer the colorful, cartoony environment in Columbia, even if it has less meaning behind it. However, I don't think you can just say it's an amateurish mish-mash of shit either.

Sorry. Admittedly I was a bit too harsh in saying that and didn't really mean that. I do however think that they were trying a bit too hard to be artistic, though. They put so much effort into making the art and level design of Columbia feel "real," which I can acknowledge and respect, but the point I should have made was that it didn't really feel like its own thing to me. That was basically my issue with it.

Yeah, I figured you meant something more like that. It's just that I've seen Infinite get a lot of unnecessary hate from people, which has started to annoy me, since I really do enjoy it a lot.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

However, I don't think you can just say it's an amateurish mish-mash of shit either.

Well, I only said that the story's writing was amateurish, not the design of Columbia. And I never called any aspect of the game shit. Columbia does, however, feel like a mish-mash of elements inspired from American history rather than a full believable city, though. That's just the way I see it, for whatever reason. If its any consolation, I still think its a damn great looking game, and I agree that I like how colorful it all is.

Yeah, I figured you meant something more like that. It's just that I've seen Infinite get a lot of unnecessary hate from people, which has started to annoy me, since I really do enjoy it a lot.

That's honestly news to me. I thought I was the only person who had some negatives to say about the game (and I don't even hate it), as I've seen just about everyone else praise it out the wazoo. If anything the haters are probably in the minority, though, so you can easily just ignore them.

[Foggle]

I can agree that the story writing and construction itself isn't handled nearly as well as in the first game (ending aside, which is great), but I love love love the dialogue in it. Also, I felt the adventure it took me on was very enjoyable. Except when I had to do that same boss fight three times.

As for the mish-mash of elements, well, there's a plot-related reason for it.

That's honestly news to me. I thought I was the only person who had some negatives to say about the game (and I don't even hate it), as I've seen just about everyone else praise it out the wazoo. If anything the haters are probably in the minority, though, so you can easily just ignore them.

I rarely even see positive comments about it anymore. Everyone is always talking shit about how Infinite's gameplay is "worse than the original's", or how "Ken Levine is classist and racist". The majority still overwhelmingly love it, but the vocal minority is very vocal. It's similar to how tons of people online will call RE4 shit, even though the vast majority does not feel that way.

Also, a lot of the people who say BioShock 1 is better than Infinite also used to be the same people who described BioShock 1 as awful, so they probably just hate anything that's popular. Speaking of which, I still think BS1 is a masterpiece in terms of design, even if I can't have much fun with it anymore.

[Spark Of Spirit]

How can the gameplay be worse than 1 when 2 improved every aspect of it? They would have to actively be trying to make the game play worse and ignoring their own improvements which is just plain silly.

[Foggle]

How can the gameplay be worse than 1 when 2 improved every aspect of it? They would have to actively be trying to make the game play worse and ignoring their own improvements which is just plain silly.

The complaints are pretty much just that you can only hold two weapons at once (never mind that you only ever really needed two guns at a time in the first game) and the lack of hacking (never mind the existence of the possession vigor and how the hacking got tedious after the fifteenth time you did it).

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I do wish that the possession vigor was permanent on machines. The one benefit of hacking is that you didn't have to worry about a machine turning on you in the middle of an intense fight. That said, I think that BS2's hacking was fine, honestly. It was a really quick mini-game that made you have to earn the hack, but didn't really feel tedious since it went by so quick.

Having said that, BS2 and BSI are both mechanically better than the first game in terms of gameplay. I do still think that all 3 games are very "so-so" overall in terms of gameplay, though. The games appeal to me more for their atmosphere and stories, even though BS2's story is utter garbage, and I have some problems with BSI's story (it still has great characters, though). As for the 2-weapon limit, I really don't mind it, and it would be hypocritical of me to bash it when I don't mind the weapon limits in games like F.E.A.R. and Halo.

[talonmalon333]

I know someone on another site who not only dislikes Infinite, but is basically parading around the opinion that it's the worst game ever made.

I haven't played it yet, but I feel justified in saying that's just ridiculous.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I actually enjoyed doing things like hacking in 2 where in 1 I just wasted money on it to get it over with. There are a lot of weird quirks like that between the two that prevent me from outright preferring one over the other.

2 was such a weird experience where I really didn't care about the story, but the improved gameplay and level design (along with the typical great atmosphere) made it really fun to play through.

[Foggle]

I know someone on another site who not only dislikes Infinite, but is basically parading around the opinion that it's the worst game ever made.

I haven't played it yet, but I feel justified in saying that's just ridiculous.

I can see someone not liking it, but that's a pretty ridiculous opinion.

Seriously, try it out. Not everyone will love it, but if you're like me, you just might.

[talonmalon333]

I know someone on another site who not only dislikes Infinite, but is basically parading around the opinion that it's the worst game ever made.

I haven't played it yet, but I feel justified in saying that's just ridiculous.

I can see someone not liking it, but that's a pretty ridiculous opinion.

Seriously, try it out. Not everyone will love it, but if you're like me, you just might.

I definitely will. I just want to play BioShock 2 first though.

[gunswordfist]

It looks like I am on the verge of beating Halo 3 even though I've barely played the game over the last few days so I'll list my favorite FPSes so far from lastgen:

8. Prey
7. Far Cry Predator Instincts
6. Condemned 2
5. Crysis
4. The Darkness
3. Rainbow Six Vegas 2
2. Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon
1. Bulletstorm

There's a lot of FPSes I haven't played yet (any Bioshock or Borderlands, The Darkness 2) and some I haven't finished (Dishonored, Far Cry 2 (forget about me ever beating FC2. Nice multiplayer though, Far Cry 3 (only played co-op), Battlefield Bad Company 2, BF3 hardly counts nor does CoD..Black Ops, I think, Crysis 2)

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Uh, let's see....

Last gen I liked Halo: Reach, BioShock, and F.E.A.R. 2 (which I still feel is pretty underrated), and I liked the HL2 episode expansions, and other than that I played a lot of average or underwhelming FPS games. That said, there are still a ton that I never played, so I'll have to play catch-up on those titles.